‘Pluribus’ Penultimate Episode and ‘Landman’ Episode 5

Chris and Andy talk about all of the shows that are coming up in January, including ‘The Pitt’ Season 2 and the long-awaited second season of ‘The Night Manager’ (3:44). Then they talk about the penultimate episode of ‘Pluribus’ Season 1 and Carol's arc throughout this season (25:27) before recapping the latest episode of ‘Landman’ (38:36). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Production: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:57Speaker 00

  I need sports staff to clear the room.

• 1:00Andy Greenwald?

  Stand up and walk now.

• 1:03Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, the guest of honor, it's Sam Elliott's Pirate Dinner. It's Andy Greenwald!

• 1:16Andy Greenwald?

  You ever attended a Pirate Dinner?

• 1:18Chris Ryan?

  No, man. I can't wait to, though. I would, if Ally Larder asked me to go to a Pirate Dinner, I would, I would dress up wherever she wanted me to do.

• 1:24Andy Greenwald?

  Would you dress up? You're not a really traditionally a big dressing up guy.

• 1:27Chris Ryan?

  I'd be like the homie and master and commander only has one, one hand.

• 1:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yo. You didn't say a master and commander themed dinner.

• 1:33Chris Ryan?

  That would be amazing.

• 1:34Andy Greenwald?

  All the fellows show up for a master and commander themed dinner.

• 1:37Chris Ryan?

  Greenwald, great to see you today on the show. Pluribus, episode eight. Landman, I think it's episode six, but it was Sunday's episode called Pirate Dinner. We will get into some news at the top. Some programming reminders. Today, obviously, our show, then Monday, we're going to do a special year end mailbag, which I'm very excited about. Then later next week, we will be releasing an episode timed to the Pluribus finale. With some special guests.

• 2:03Andy Greenwald?

  That's good for us.

• 2:04Chris Ryan?

  So we're very excited about that. And that will be some Xmas listening for folks.

• 2:09Andy Greenwald?

  What's cool is we didn't get access to any of the creative team, but anybody can be another from that show.

• 2:14Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 2:15Andy Greenwald?

  So we just grabbed some folks from the lobby.

• 2:16Chris Ryan?

  And then we're going to be off for that week in between, kind of the after Christmas, before or after New Year's, and we'll be back on like the second or fourth, I believe it is.

• 2:26Andy Greenwald?

  How are you feeling about? You know, we released our top 10, our year end episode into the wild. How are you feeling about how it's been received? Do you feel like, do you feel like you've been heard?

• 2:36Chris Ryan?

  Yes. So I don't know if you did, probably didn't have a chance to tune into the sure thing rewatchables, which went live last night on Rob Reiner. Bill opened the show by discussing watching us in bed while his wife played a video game on her phone.

• 2:50Andy Greenwald?

  I'm going to unpack that. We were in bed?

• 2:52Chris Ryan?

  No, he was watching the watch on his big screen television.

• 2:56Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  In bed and thought that we had too much opening banter, but had really like some good ideas.

• 3:03Andy Greenwald?

  But that's been the note for the last 13 or 14 years.

• 3:06Chris Ryan?

  He was like, you guys, I needed to get to honorable mentions faster.

• 3:10Andy Greenwald?

  That's baked in at this point.

• 3:11Chris Ryan?

  I know. I mean, look.

• 3:13Andy Greenwald?

  Do we have to re-record?

• 3:14Chris Ryan?

  No, I enjoyed our best of the year. I think it was warmly received.

• 3:19Andy Greenwald?

  I want to know how you feel about this because I don't know how many more ways we can explain that Sam S. Mail is our friend and no longer wants to appear on these podcasts and that those things are both true.

• 3:32Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:33Andy Greenwald?

  But maybe it's better to print the legend because we, I read texts from Sam at the beginning of the podcast.

• 3:39Chris Ryan?

  Like, I think we should just put his face up there with a Ghostbuster like slash through it.

• 3:43Andy Greenwald?

  Because there's still comments like on our stuff being like, you are hiding from Sam or you fired him because he disagreed with you?

• 3:50Chris Ryan?

  I need you to accept the fact that a lot of the people who comment about work that we do, do not actually engage with the work.

• 3:57Andy Greenwald?

  That's humbling to think about. That's wor- you don't, wait.

• 4:00Chris Ryan?

  It's sort of like your relationship to television.

• 4:03Andy Greenwald?

  And sports. And sports. And like the entire NBA season. I'm not sure if it's been played or not.

• 4:11Chris Ryan?

  They're game casting our pod. You know, they just want to see the results. They don't really care about the process.

• 4:16Andy Greenwald?

  So they're looking at next gen stats and they're saying that we've vamped like we're doing right now for like 20 minutes before we get into the content.

• 4:25Chris Ryan?

  The reason why I'm vamping with you right now, the reason why, first of all, it's funky Thursdays. It's fun Thursdays.

• 4:30Andy Greenwald?

  We still don't have the right name for that, but yeah.

• 4:31Chris Ryan?

  Casual Thursdays, chaos menu. I don't know what to call it. The reason why I'm doing it is because we're not going to have the luxury of doing this in January. Because January, weirdly, strangely, is gonna be among the busier months of our podcasting careers.

• 4:48Andy Greenwald?

  So rough.

• 4:49Chris Ryan?

  Now, look, I, how we cover this is yet to be determined, but I just mean in terms of sheer volume of shows that we are really interested in and could be interested in.

• 4:57Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 4:58Chris Ryan?

  I don't think I've ever seen a January like it, and I don't understand it. I don't, usually, like, you get, like, a rush of shows, kind of in the spring to get under the Emmy wire, right? Like, we had, like, crazy April/Mays, but I don't remember coming out of a holiday season into January, and here's just a list of some of the shows that are premiering in January.

• 5:19Andy Greenwald?

  Like, within the first two weeks, right?

• 5:21Chris Ryan?

  And we're gonna talk about some of these in detail. The Pit.

• 5:24Andy Greenwald?

  Season two.

• 5:25Chris Ryan?

  Season two. Industry, season four.

• 5:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 5:28Chris Ryan?

  His and Hers on Netflix, which is a Jon Bernthal, Tessa Thompson thriller.

• 5:32Andy Greenwald?

  Crazy.

• 5:33Chris Ryan?

  Riot Women, which is the new show from Sally Wainwright, incredible British writer who did Happy Valley. Gangs of London, season three.

• 5:44Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, so, it's ebbing a little bit.

• 5:47Chris Ryan?

  I'll give you a download on what happened on the first two seasons. Ponies, which is a new show on Peacock that I was kind of intrigued by.

• 5:53Andy Greenwald?

  It looks good.

• 5:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, which is like a, like a spy comedy.

• 5:57Andy Greenwald?

  It's a period spy comedy with Haley Lou Richardson and Amelia Clark.

• 6:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Andy Greenwald?

  And Ponies is, stands for Persons of No Interest.

• 6:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 6:05Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm not one of them. I'm interested.

• 6:08Chris Ryan?

  I'm interested. I'm anti-pony for ponies. Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 6:12Andy Greenwald?

  God damn it, what?

• 6:14Chris Ryan?

  Shrinking is back, which we have not engaged with in the past, but is a notable Big Apple release to just be like, let's slide this in there.

• 6:22Andy Greenwald?

  I just feel like I spend most of my life either in therapy or in Pasadena, and I don't need a show about both of those things.

• 6:27Chris Ryan?

  Honestly, that's probably the most, that's the best possible answer you could possibly give for why we don't engage with Shrinking.

• 6:33Andy Greenwald?

  I'm trying to be honest about things, you know, like, when the rehearsal came up on Monday and I was like, I can't get over the fact that someone took a picture of me thinking I was him.

• 6:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Andy Greenwald?

  That's why I don't watch it, like, simpler, simpler, simpler.

• 6:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, just be honest.

• 6:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it's cringe and all that, but like, really.

• 6:45Chris Ryan?

  And then, finally, season two, ten years after season one of The Night Manager, which is Tom Hiddleston and Olivia Colman.

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  What's crazy to me is-

• 6:55Chris Ryan?

  Extended Le Carre universe piece about-

• 6:58Andy Greenwald?

  Your vigil paid off. That candle has been flickering on your mantle for ten years.

• 7:04Chris Ryan?

  Well, I now think we are no longer allowed to make fun of Severance for taking too long.

• 7:08Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 7:09Chris Ryan?

  We've kind of checkmated ourselves there.

• 7:12Andy Greenwald?

  Because we're excited about this?

• 7:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 7:14Andy Greenwald?

  Wow, it was a long night to manage.

• 7:17Chris Ryan?

  Um, what of that group of shows do you think you're most excited to get back?

• 7:23Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I mean, the fact that that Industry and The Pit, which are two of our favorite shows, full stop, are coming back within a week of each other is diabolical. That's incredibly exciting.

• 7:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and both weekly releases.

• 7:35Andy Greenwald?

  And both weekly releases, which is good.

• 7:37Chris Ryan?

  The Pitt Season Two full trailer was released.

• 7:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 7:40Chris Ryan?

  Um, I would say my main observation is it has like more swagger than the first season trailer than the first, like the way that the show was presented, which I think, I can't even really remember, but I do remember it being like, oh, this is kind of weird. Is this kind of betwixt and between a HBO show and a Max show? And is it going to be just like a straight procedural or what? We wasn't prepared for the, you know, the emotions it would stir and also just the excitement it would stir. This one has a little bit of like, they did the gritty in the end zone. You know what I mean?

• 8:12Andy Greenwald?

  Kind of coach didn't like that. Coach O'Connell was not happy about that.

• 8:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he didn't.

• 8:17Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think that you would swagger a little bit if you had a, like an undisputed touchdown? Would you have the presence of mind?

• 8:23Chris Ryan?

  I would be like Dan Lanning. I would be like, I would like, I would want all my guys to party and celebrate.

• 8:28Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, so you know, I would run through the back of the end. I'd run through the tape. You know what I mean? Like, and then you just hand the ball to the ref. No showboating.

• 8:34Chris Ryan?

  That's classic white wide receiver shit right there.

• 8:38Andy Greenwald?

  That's some real McCaffrey shit.

• 8:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, just like, here you go, sir.

• 8:41Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you for the opportunity.

• 8:42Chris Ryan?

  It's expected that I score. It's what I'm paid to do.

• 8:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's what my father told me every night before I fell asleep.

• 8:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Andy Greenwald?

  Um, yeah, I mean, well, the Pitt Season One had to sell audiences on a lot, including just like a vibe. Like, you guys remember a show that litigously we're not, legally, we're not going to mention?

• 8:58Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 8:58Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe we could give you some more of that. And the fun of returning for a second season with the kind of success that it's had is, remember these six people that you love? They're back.

• 9:08Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 9:08Andy Greenwald?

  And you get to look at them more. And that's a winning strategy for a TV show. Speaking of like the Severance delay or the Night Manager delay, like, not just that we got the Season Two trailer. Not just that we got the season two trailer two weeks, two and a half weeks before it returns, there was something in my brain that was like, are they giving away too, do they actually have all of this filmed? It's like I'm not used to such a full plate.

• 9:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Andy Greenwald?

  I thought they would just give a little like beep beep beep Robbie's face.

• 9:33Chris Ryan?

  That was the teaser that they did like a couple of weeks ago and everything.

• 9:36Andy Greenwald?

  Now they're like, oh no, they've shot this.

• 9:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Andy Greenwald?

  There's no mystery here.

• 9:39Chris Ryan?

  It's done, yeah.

• 9:40Andy Greenwald?

  They're not like burning the midnight oil over at the studio.

• 9:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of fascinating. This show, I think, will be one of the most anticipated releases of the year, I would imagine, both critically and sort of like on that TV addict way, but also I think on a general, like, I watch four shows a year level.

• 9:58Andy Greenwald?

  This is one of them.

• 9:59Chris Ryan?

  And, you know, this returning cast, we see a little bit of Langdon, we see Mel, we see all of our faves. I wonder, you know, how much turnover though will be on this cast? Because they're going to obviously push the limits in terms of story about like what Dana and Robbie and these people can take. You've got people fan casting the pit night shift, you know, like the Hattie version.

• 10:22Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, which I think people want. And the biggest tragedy for me is that Dr. Collins still has her phone on do not disturb.

• 10:29Chris Ryan?

  I know. I mean, she must be living a blissful life.

• 10:32Andy Greenwald?

  Can I ask you something about putting your phone on do not disturb? Because I do it and calls just blast through.

• 10:38Chris Ryan?

  Um, I don't really get it. Maybe Kaya can help us on this. Like, I know lots of people who have their phone on do not disturb and, and still have like a full texting life. What is the upside of this?

• 10:48Andy Greenwald?

  Well, you can program it so some people can break through, right? Let's, let's talk to our youth correspondent.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  So the trick with do not disturb is that if you call twice in a row, it breaks through.

• 10:57Chris Ryan?

  Oh, right.

• 10:58Andy Greenwald?

  Is that real?

• 10:59Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 11:00Andy Greenwald?

  Oh my God, okay, well.

• 11:03Chris Ryan?

  Who breaks through? Your kids?

• 11:05Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's set to, they can always reach me.

• 11:07Chris Ryan?

  What about me?

• 11:09Andy Greenwald?

  My kids can always reach me. One fun thing that my, my parents' relationship with telephones and all technology is still pretty Jurassic. So they do call multiple times and sometimes forget that they've just called or they're not aware that it's.

• 11:24Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 11:25Andy Greenwald?

  So one call from them normally involves three distinct ringing episodes. So that's probably why I can't, in the spirit of the holidays, block them out completely.

• 11:35Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 11:36Andy Greenwald?

  I see. Okay.

• 11:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I'm always, because you know, it got in my head a little bit that there was a time when you would awake to a number of spirited messages from me alerting you to the events or trailers that drop between 1:00 and 6:00 a.m. But now I'm a little bit, you know, I don't know your waking schedule, but I also don't wanna, because you don't put it on Do Not Stir, I believe.

• 12:00Chris Ryan?

  I don't, I often will leave it outside of my room because now I kind of mechanically wake up at the same time every day, so I don't need an alarm, but I do get disoriented if I don't see what time it is. I'll, you know.

• 12:11Andy Greenwald?

  I don't wanna, I don't wanna rush you.

• 12:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you used to send me a lot of shit in the morning, just like, well, let's look at the trades. And I'm like, okay, I haven't had coffee yet.

• 12:18Andy Greenwald?

  And also you pay Richard Rushfeld to do that, Matt Bellany, to give you the updates.

• 12:22Chris Ryan?

  I do.

• 12:23Andy Greenwald?

  I thought that I was providing a bespoke service.

• 12:25Chris Ryan?

  I wish.

• 12:26Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 12:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but anyway, like.

• 12:28Andy Greenwald?

  What else you got from this? Like, what are your, what's your power listing? What's your power rankings of interest level?

• 12:32Chris Ryan?

  You know, I'm looking, I'm, I'm excited for this mixture of returning and new. So Ponies and His and Hers and Riot Women, I'm very curious about.

• 12:41Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, this is a Bernthal television show.

• 12:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Andy Greenwald?

  This is made for you, maybe.

• 12:47Chris Ryan?

  Uh, well, they all are. All those Bernthal shows are. Did you see, did I send you the video? I've talked about this before, of Bernthal. There's a clip going out, because it's from an old podcast he did with Shia, where Shia is like, I wanna work at Home Depot, and Bernthal is just like, you think you can work in Home Depot? Do you really think you can do that? Do you go to Home Depot?

• 13:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Chris Ryan?

  And Shia's like, that's my church, bro. That's where I go. That's, I have mad projects.

• 13:14Andy Greenwald?

  Whoa.

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  It's so funny.

• 13:16Andy Greenwald?

  That is, first of all, that is a similar tone to what you take with me.

• 13:18Chris Ryan?

  Bernthal is like, you think you can work in Home Depot? That's something that you think you can do.

• 13:22Andy Greenwald?

  But one of my favorite things about this is John Bernthal, like us, went to a Quaker school. Like.

• 13:30Chris Ryan?

  I think he saw a different side of Quakerism, though.

• 13:33Andy Greenwald?

  With the rough and tumble side?

• 13:35Chris Ryan?

  Well, I just don't know how like, like, he's just too authentic.

• 13:38Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not saying he's phony. He wouldn't. It wouldn't work for him to play these parts. That said, he is a suburban Jew who went to a Quaker school.

• 13:46Chris Ryan?

  God, it'd be awesome to have a podcast with John Bernthal called Another Side of Quakerism. And it's all about like the shit we got into while we were in Quaker school.

• 13:54Andy Greenwald?

  Sometimes that light within can burn.

• 13:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Disrupting meeting for worship.

• 13:59Andy Greenwald?

  Were you a big stand up and meeting for worship guy?

• 14:02Chris Ryan?

  I don't think I ever did it. I don't think I ever did it. I mean, I also was of a generation that I don't think really prioritized meeting for worship, like in the way that it should be like, it would often be,

• 14:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 14:14Chris Ryan?

  this is a cool free period if we can get out of meeting early. Like, you know what I mean? Like, once meeting ends, there's like a little bit of playtime. So when people would stand up and start talking about their dead turtle, we would be like, fuck.

• 14:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. I mean, so for people who don't know, the hallmark of a Quaker education is once a week, you have a meeting for worship where you sit in quiet reflection.

• 14:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Andy Greenwald?

  In the traditions of Quaker religious ceremony. And then if you feel moved to speak, you could speak. But in retrospect, like, like when you're little, like, kids would stand up and be like, meeting is a time to think about God because they thought you were supposed to say that.

• 14:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Andy Greenwald?

  That's like the kindergarten move. But then.

• 14:45Chris Ryan?

  Did you do that in kindergarten?

• 14:46Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't.

• 14:47Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:47Andy Greenwald?

  No. Um, but this sounds like.

• 14:51Chris Ryan?

  In kindergarten?

• 14:52Andy Greenwald?

  Question everything.

• 14:53Chris Ryan?

  I was like, one F roach, oh man, Randy Savage fought Optimus Prime in a neutral site. That's what I'm thinking about.

• 15:00Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just wondering if your school, because we didn't know each other then, we went to rival Quaker schools. It's kind of like our version of Quakerism and John Bernthal's version of Quakerism.

• 15:09Chris Ryan?

  You went to a place in the suburbs.

• 15:11Andy Greenwald?

  Why you gotta say it like that?

• 15:13Chris Ryan?

  I was just saying, that's where it was located.

• 15:14Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, it physically was located in the suburbs.

• 15:16Chris Ryan?

  I was on the parkway.

• 15:17Andy Greenwald?

  You were right in the shit.

• 15:18Chris Ryan?

  Right by Love Park, you know, me and Harmony Green.

• 15:23Andy Greenwald?

  Talking about Transformers.

• 15:24Chris Ryan?

  Talking about gummo.

• 15:25Andy Greenwald?

  But did it get like, I just feel like the rules were bent a little bit. Cause I remember in middle school when like Earth Day became a thing.

• 15:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:32Andy Greenwald?

  We'd have like themed meetings where someone would be like, we're gonna begin meeting for worship with a song about how the environment belongs to all of us. And they'd play like an Edie Brakel song and we'd all sit in silence being like, what the fuck are we listening to? And then I guess think about the whales for 40 minutes. And that feels a little directional, you know what I mean? Like, what if I didn't want to think about that?

• 15:50Chris Ryan?

  You like to have an action, you like to have like-

• 15:52Andy Greenwald?

  No, I didn't.

• 15:52Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you don't? You wanna have it just be like, I'm thinking about Randall Cunningham right now.

• 15:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, or, you know, will the city ever appreciate Scott Roland? Or whatever was relevant at that era.

• 16:02Chris Ryan?

  I, yeah, I mean, I, I kinda miss it though.

• 16:05Andy Greenwald?

  It was kinda nice.

• 16:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Andy Greenwald?

  This was a period every week where you did nothing.

• 16:08Chris Ryan?

  It's like therapy, but you don't have to talk.

• 16:10Andy Greenwald?

  Wow. So you'd fit right in with Shia at Home Depot.

• 16:14Chris Ryan?

  Um, yeah, I think, uh, I think I'm very excited. I was curious what your temp check on Night of the Seven Kingdoms is, just because-

• 16:21Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, you haven't dealt, you haven't dipped into these screeners, right? That you're not-

• 16:24Chris Ryan?

  I don't even know if we're even allowed to mention that we have them, yes.

• 16:27Andy Greenwald?

  I'll mention it.

• 16:28Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 16:29Andy Greenwald?

  I don't care anymore.

• 16:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Andy Greenwald?

  Clip this, Kaya, I don't care. I got screeners, but I haven't watched them yet. Too busy, it's fine. Um, got nothing to hide. Uh, well, I guess I'm open-minded about it because the entire pitch of the show is we understand it as non-book readers and non-house of our, we don't live in the house of our, but we, we're fans, uh, is that this is-

• 16:54Chris Ryan?

  I summer there.

• 16:55Andy Greenwald?

  Do you?

• 16:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:56Andy Greenwald?

  The summer, you turn pretty. That, that, this is, this is not the same tone.

• 17:02Chris Ryan?

  It's a series of novellas that he wrote, uh, that I think are a little bit less high stakes, is, is my understanding, but also quite good and some of the best work he's done, writing-wise.

• 17:11Andy Greenwald?

  This is, this is George R.R.

• 17:13Chris Ryan?

  George R.R. Martin, yes, and that these- Episodes I believe are only a half an hour long.

• 17:19Andy Greenwald?

  Why? Don't quote you on that. I didn't know that.

• 17:20Chris Ryan?

  I'm fairly certain that they're like, it's like six 30 minute episodes. It's almost a little bit more British style.

• 17:26Andy Greenwald?

  Sounds great.

• 17:26Chris Ryan?

  I think.

• 17:27Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 17:28Chris Ryan?

  I could be wrong. Um, I'm very much looking forward to it.

• 17:31Andy Greenwald?

  That sounds nice.

• 17:32Chris Ryan?

  Uh, this is a, a series that actually didn't get strip mined, um, in the great streaming wars of the early part of this decade. Where people were taking Star Wars and, and Marvel and DC and just being like, we gotta get, gotta get as much stuff as possible up on the services. Like Game of Thrones, for whatever you think about the ending of Game of Thrones and whatever you think of House of the Dragon, has been relatively.

• 17:54Andy Greenwald?

  Modest?

• 17:54Chris Ryan?

  Modest and, and I think that the HBO team has been good stewards of making sure that whatever goes up is gonna honor what they've accomplished so far.

• 18:04Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm eager to see that. I'm, did you, do you have any thoughts you'd like to share about the industry season four poster that was just released?

• 18:12Chris Ryan?

  I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm just ready.

• 18:13Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, no, we're ready. We don't need trailers. We are on board, but I do really enjoy the real time retconning of what the show is.

• 18:20Chris Ryan?

  That's not Yasmin and Harper.

• 18:22Andy Greenwald?

  Well, which is awesome.

• 18:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Andy Greenwald?

  And, but I, I, I am a fan of the fact that the show took a very, uh, nonlinear path to maybe uncovering what it quote, quote, has always been.

• 18:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:33Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and also that your man, uh, Kit Harrington is just in the poster.

• 18:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:37Andy Greenwald?

  Because he's a pretty big draw when he's on an HBO show.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  Um, we can get to Pluribus first. We could get to Landman first. Um, is there anything else?

• 18:45Andy Greenwald?

  Did you want, did you want to talk Night Manager trailer? You, you wanted me to watch it?

• 18:48Chris Ryan?

  It was quite good. I think that there are gonna be many people, some may be like, what a great excuse to revisit Night Manager, which I thought was an excellent series, if I remember correctly from 2015. But that is a lifetime ago. Uh, it's hundreds of television shows ago. It's multiple vacations.

• 19:06Andy Greenwald?

  Must be nice. Wow. Want to list your, your top three?

• 19:12Chris Ryan?

  Croatia, 15. Uh, Portugal 17. And

• 19:18Andy Greenwald?

  You were ahead of the crowds on that one.

• 19:20Chris Ryan?

  I did. I, you know, I didn't get a golden passport there, but um.

• 19:24Andy Greenwald?

  You're not Sephardic.

• 19:25Chris Ryan?

  Is that a big thing over there?

• 19:27Andy Greenwald?

  I believe Portuguese government was offering citizenship to people, to Jews of Sephardic descent due to their treatment during the Inquisition period.

• 19:36Chris Ryan?

  What, what that half was?

• 19:37Andy Greenwald?

  Nah, nah, you're stedle like me. Come on. What, you're not like.

• 19:43Chris Ryan?

  Why are you turning into Mel Brooks all of a sudden?

• 19:45Andy Greenwald?

  Because that's what happens to all of us inevitably.

• 19:48Chris Ryan?

  Um, I just don't remember what happened on The Night Manager. I know that Hugh Laurie's Dicky Roper is an arms dealer and I, I don't remember his fate. Uh, I'm fairly certain he's not with us, but he's in the second season trailer of Night Manager.

• 20:03Andy Greenwald?

  Here's my, here's my slant on this. Does it matter? Like 10 years ago, it was a completely different show and a completely different television ecosystem in moment. It was on a completely different network.

• 20:13Chris Ryan?

  Totally different global chessboard.

• 20:15Andy Greenwald?

  The show was for AMC. Now it's an Amazon Prime series. Um, and I, I just don't get the sense from the trailer, which looks beautiful. It's full of many delightful British actors who we've seen in many other delightful things. And the first season, even for those who didn't watch it, know that it was primarily a show about linens and blousy suit jackets and hot temperatures.

• 20:35Chris Ryan?

  You still, you remember.

• 20:36Andy Greenwald?

  And yeah, I remember that how the way those shirts were fitting my guy Loki.

• 20:40Chris Ryan?

  De Becky.

• 20:40Andy Greenwald?

  Looked great. And, and our guy De Becky, she's amazing. Um, I don't think it matters. I think that what Amazon bought here and resurrected here is this is a Marvel star looking cool in a action espionage show. And so let's go. So I, I don't think there's a big barrier to entry here.

• 20:59Chris Ryan?

  Hey, speaking of trailers, have you spent any time on your for you tab on Twitter recently?

• 21:05Andy Greenwald?

  I, I don't, I don't frequent Twitter anymore.

• 21:07Chris Ryan?

  Um, you say that, but you do send me tweets.

• 21:09Andy Greenwald?

  Only on game day.

• 21:10Chris Ryan?

  Okay. Um, there's like a thing going on right now where everybody is like, oh my God, the, did, did the doomsday trailer or whatever, like all the Avengers trailers.

• 21:19Andy Greenwald?

  Cause something's coming.

• 21:20Chris Ryan?

  And it's all like either AI or it's like vague posting where they're like, you're never going to believe this. And then it's like, nobody can understand it. They're putting out, are they really putting out four trailers in the, over the course of the next couple of weeks with Avatar? Is that true?

• 21:35Andy Greenwald?

  We don't know. I mean, I do think this is-

• 21:38Chris Ryan?

  Does Avatar need that much help?

• 21:40Andy Greenwald?

  Well, you're the guy that should-

• 21:41Chris Ryan?

  I'm just, I'm concerned trolling Avatar.

• 21:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but did you see that Big Jim Cameron responded to you?

• 21:45Chris Ryan?

  He didn't respond to me. He responded to a sentiment that I think some, some of his fans share. He also-

• 21:51Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, you're a passive voice guy. You are literally the face of the ob- you're, you're like the QAnon Shaman being like, you know, there was a gathering of ideas-

• 21:59Chris Ryan?

  It was. There was. He's, he perhaps is the figurehead of that gathering, but there certainly were more than just one guy at the January 6th.

• 22:06Andy Greenwald?

  Right. He just happened to be the one wearing the fucking animal pelts.

• 22:12Andy Greenwald?

  And that's you on Pandora, being like, "This sucks. Shut it down."

• 22:19Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, I, I, first of all, everything needs all the help it can get.

• 22:23Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 22:23Andy Greenwald?

  Other than the Zootopia franchise, apparently. And by the way, you're not ready for my takes on that.

• 22:27Chris Ryan?

  Have you seen it?

• 22:28Andy Greenwald?

  Of course. Opening weekend.

• 22:29Chris Ryan?

  Two?

• 22:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. Zootopia.

• 22:32Chris Ryan?

  I am not ready for your takes on that.

• 22:34Andy Greenwald?

  It sucked.

• 22:34Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 22:35Andy Greenwald?

  Sorry to all of China, who's apparently boosting it with their collective wealth. Did you see that movie made a billion dollars in like six days?

• 22:42Chris Ryan?

  I did.

• 22:43Andy Greenwald?

  Anyway, uh, Avengers thing is, it does feel like it's all disinfo campaign because it's not just, I mean, you, you responsibly source your information from the "For You" tab on X, whereas I just get fed a steady stream of slop on Facebook.

• 23:01Andy Greenwald?

  And by the way, one thing that I don't think you're aware of, but definitely like your one uncle with the email account is aware of, is how the slop is fed to us now on Facebook, which is not just like, uh, you know, fake news. It's, I, I'm sure AI-generated content that takes like a moment, which is just like, I, I, I don't know, like what, what's an example of like, um, Taron Killam leaving Saturday Night Live, and they were like, it's like, quote, "Guys, I'm done." "The room, the room at Studio 8G was chilled by Taron Killam's announcement, but they knew the show they loved would no longer be the same." That's what it does for like the most banal.

• 23:44Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 23:44Andy Greenwald?

  Celebrity information.

• 23:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, because they're like, make this the most like sticky kind of.

• 23:49Andy Greenwald?

  Story by this as like some.

• 23:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:50Andy Greenwald?

  And one of the things I'm getting is it's just like beat by beat breakdowns of completely invented trailers for a movie.

• 23:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes. Yeah. So I saw, I watched one that was, uh, it was like multiple people from Avengers, but then also Sigourney Weaver's Ripley and a predator.

• 24:07Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, you wrote, you wrote this. Like you're more interested now.

• 24:12Chris Ryan?

  Yo.

• 24:13Andy Greenwald?

  Totally.

• 24:14Chris Ryan?

  The Disney team is coming together.

• 24:16Andy Greenwald?

  Totally. Like what, uh? Do you feel like Avengers Doomsday is a distressed asset right now?

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  Um, I think it's in the Zootopia zone. I think it's.

• 24:30Andy Greenwald?

  So it's gonna be big in China.

• 24:31Chris Ryan?

  I think it's gonna be big, but I think it's gonna be. I think they need to end this and I think that they, I think that this is like steering into the skid where they're like, you know what? This, the whole Kang thing didn't work out. Let's actually put good money on top of bad money.

• 24:48Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 24:48Chris Ryan?

  End this. Get, get back in people's faces with like these characters and some of these other things. If, but I honestly, I don't really know what's happening. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really know what's happening with it. I assume they're gonna be building towards Secret Wars and.

• 25:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. I, I think the, the problem.

• 25:03Chris Ryan?

  It's gonna be weird if people are like, Rebecca Romaine? Like, is that what we did?

• 25:06Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I mean. There's no story here. So these movies have to do so many things and potentially impossible things, but one of which is make a case for its own existence and story momentum, because it's not really building on anything. Like even the most optimistic among us, like me, who.

• 25:22Chris Ryan?

  You are very optimistic.

• 25:23Andy Greenwald?

  About this. I liked Thunderbolts and I liked Fantastic Four.

• 25:26Chris Ryan?

  You are kinda weird that way.

• 25:27Andy Greenwald?

  I believe I'm in the minority. And so you see these, these like, you know, set images and it's just like, oh man.

• 25:33Chris Ryan?

  I just love Reed Richards and Jay Kelly. That's just who I am.

• 25:35Andy Greenwald?

  What's wrong with that? But it's just like Shang-Chi and Evan Moss Bakarak, that's one's a character, one's an actor, sorry. And, and Ben Grimm palling around in London. And I'm like, I, I see the vision.

• 25:48Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 25:49Andy Greenwald?

  But I don't know if I see the, so, so maybe Avatar's helping them. I don't know.

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. No, that actually, that's a good zag.

• 25:54Andy Greenwald?

  Do you like that take?

• 25:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. It's actually the Na'vi are helping the Avengers. Um, let's do Pluribus first.

• 26:01Andy Greenwald?

  Before Landman? Okay.

• 26:02Chris Ryan?

  We can do whichever one you want.

• 26:04Andy Greenwald?

  Alright, I, I, let's do Pluribus first.

• 26:07Chris Ryan?

  I really think I have more to say about Landman.

• 26:09Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, me too.

• 26:09Chris Ryan?

  But I've also, I've also liked with Pluribus, I think in the last couple of weeks, like,

• 26:15Chris Ryan?

  I certainly, obviously, I think it's one of the best shows of the year. I think the second half of this season has been remarkable.

• 26:21Andy Greenwald?

  So, to talk about this episode, episode, um, eight?

• 26:26Chris Ryan?

  Eight.

• 26:30Andy Greenwald?

  You have been, and I love this show as well.

• 26:32Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:32Andy Greenwald?

  You have been much more patient, I would say, and dialed in to the particular rhythms of this show.

• 26:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Andy Greenwald?

  Um, maybe even more so than I, and you know, I'm a big advocate of J. Kelly and other slow food entertainments.

• 26:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Andy Greenwald?

  So this episode, which really, as it often does, like with a fine filigree articulates Carol's changing relationship with the situation, with the collective, with the others, with Sosia specifically. What was it about this journey with her in this episode that grabbed you? And I'm not trying to be like, concerned trolling, like I really enjoyed this episode and, but I'm curious where you are with it.

• 27:14Chris Ryan?

  I just don't really see TV that is delving into these kinds of emotional realities, even if the reality of the show is almost science fictional. And so the depiction of loneliness and the depiction of longing and the depiction of needing companionship is so incredible. And I think that sometimes there are shows that are challenging and I'm like, well, you just don't get it. I know that this is challenging and I know that there is a kind of, um, time lapse thing going on here and a, and a focus on things that most TV shows and most movies even would be like, this happens in between the cuts, you know, like, or this is what would happen as we transition from interior to exterior

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  or from this to two days later when something else important happens. And instead, this is very carefully choosing certain days in this woman's life and showing almost all of it.

• 28:10Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:10Chris Ryan?

  And I think the cumulative effect that I am feeling is that all of that stuff, all that work, every time you listen to the voicemail message, every time you've watched her do something domestic inside of her house, is like piling up so that breakthrough moments.

• 28:27Chris Ryan?

  Like, like the diner scene, which I think is

• 28:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Chris Ryan?

  amazing. The idea that somebody would do something so kind, but also so creepy.

• 28:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:37Chris Ryan?

  And that she would feel both of those things at the same time. And that it would mean so much to her. It's the happiest you've ever seen Carol.

• 28:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Chris Ryan?

  And then immediately she becomes incredibly alarmed at that, you know?

• 28:48Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, there's something, the show works on so many levels. And one of the things that I think makes it ultimately successful is that you can look at it in the macro of what's happened to the world and what are these massive swings in our society or specifically that have happened to us recently that we're using as mirrors to reflect what's happening in the show. But then also like the emotional minutia of what's happening with Carol. And the diner scene reminded me of a moment also in the episode when she's like, would you like me to, after she slept over in the hockey arena or whatever that is. And she's like, would you like me to make you breakfast? And she's like, no, no, you don't have to do that. It's okay. And there's this idea of asking people for things, which for some of us is hard to do. And then the extra level of it where it's literally nothing to them.

• 29:34Andy Greenwald?

  Whether it's power washing her street, whether it's making her breakfast, whether it's having sex with her or whether it's spending untold weeks to completely creepily recreate a long shuttered, long burned

• 29:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:48Andy Greenwald?

  business.

• 29:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Andy Greenwald?

  Clearly there are people who don't have that kind of moral quandary, quandary like Diabate. And then Carol is somewhere in the middle of it. And it's interesting to watch someone who has issues, but then also some sense of like she doesn't actually want

• 30:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 30:07Andy Greenwald?

  that kind of labor done for her, but she also doesn't think she deserves it. And so it's a psychological story at the same time that it is a societal story.

• 30:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And I think I always looked at Menusos's character as this.

• 30:21Chris Ryan?

  Weather system coming in and changing things. But I keep going back to that introduction of his character or when his character leaves Paraguay for the first time and pushes his car out of the garage and his mother shows up and he's like, you're not my mother. My mother was a bitch, you know? You know, the pain that he carries with him from the before times is similar to whatever psychological scar tissue makes it so that Carol can't just be in her own skin and enjoy things when they're being brought to her, like anything in the world to make you happy. And she's like, no, I am the unhappiest person.

• 30:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 30:57Chris Ryan?

  And knowing that these two people are on this collision course and what's going to happen is, is like, really compelling to me.

• 31:04Andy Greenwald?

  Where are you on the, again, one of the reasons we like the show is because of the, the room for spirited debate about the intentions behind things. We were talking about in the previous episode, like Manus is waving. Is he waving in surrender? Is he waving for help? Carol's softening towards Osha and then ultimately like giving in to Osha. How much of that do you think is, well, what, what do you think her reasoning is? Is it, how much of it is the loneliness of the 40 days of isolation, just reaching a breaking point and she'll take whatever companionship she can get? Or is it she's feeling something new that she didn't feel before?

• 31:47Andy Greenwald?

  And there's no right answer. I'm just curious where you think, because one of the fun things about watching Carol's Osha scenes are what else is happening behind the scenes?

• 31:53Chris Ryan?

  Right. And we don't really necessarily see that other than Manus's plot, like, you know, all the like kind of exposition that we've gotten has usually come from like Diabate or something like.

• 32:03Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 32:03Chris Ryan?

  Because it's only been recently that I think Carol has started to take the easy road to finding things out. Like, you know, she's done, you know, she's basically done medical procedures on people and flown across the globe, but, you know, she's just asking. I think, I think that, you know, because it's in seven is when she's kind of like, she's treating herself, right? Like, that's the one where she's kind of gone on the spa day.

• 32:29Andy Greenwald?

  That's when she's solo, but it starts, it starts hopeful and then it ends pretty.

• 32:32Chris Ryan?

  Bleakly.

• 32:33Andy Greenwald?

  Pretty bleak.

• 32:33Chris Ryan?

  Because you, you can only really do that for so long. Like, there is the, the lie that we tell ourselves that if I just had time to myself, I would do all this stuff.

• 32:42Andy Greenwald?

  Are you thinking about my phone calls from my week seven of me in London recently?

• 32:45Chris Ryan?

  Well, no, but I'm just thinking about like, I mean, I think I talked about this, but like, when my wife has been out of town like this past year and I'm like, I'm gonna fucking watch every spaghetti western. And then it's like, oh, God, like after five nights of this.

• 32:57Andy Greenwald?

  It's a lot.

• 32:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's a lot. And you really want to start having human contact again. And so I think that there's something kind of profound about the, the arc of her. It can be both things, right? Like, she can be like, I've, I've taken to life where everything I've ever wanted is right at my fingertips, but I can't enjoy it if I'm doing it alone.

• 33:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and I think it's interesting to note that

• 33:23Andy Greenwald?

  the others are changing slightly.

• 33:26Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh. They're, they're learning too.

• 33:27Andy Greenwald?

  The, the croquet scene, uh, they make a joke. They dunk on her a little bit.

• 33:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Andy Greenwald?

  They, that's seems new, right? From the, the, the monolithic voice, completely credulous voice that they spoke with earlier in the season.

• 33:46Andy Greenwald?

  Do we think that that is a benevolent evolution? Or do we think that that is, like everything, a kind of long-term manipulation?

• 33:56Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 33:56Andy Greenwald?

  Of being a little more old school human for Carol to open up herself.

• 34:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:02Andy Greenwald?

  To whatever's gonna come next.

• 34:04Chris Ryan?

  Do you, do you feel like you're like six degrees cooler on this whole thing than I am?

• 34:08Andy Greenwald?

  No, it's weird. I, I think that that's how I'm presenting it and it's, but I, I think that what I am.

• 34:16Andy Greenwald?

  I guess the answer is that I am, but I think that I have, like I said last week, like I've done this before where there was an entire season of Better Call Saul that I was pretty mid on.

• 34:27Chris Ryan?

  Me too.

• 34:28Andy Greenwald?

  And in the fullness of time and in the fullness of what they were moving towards, I was grateful for the time spent in the experience and it would have been lesser without it. So I think I'm just trying to stay.

• 34:39Chris Ryan?

  I also think our brains are different now than they were when Better Call Saul was on.

• 34:43Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. I'm learning a lot about SNL Cast Exodus on my Facebook feed.

• 34:48Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 34:48Andy Greenwald?

  And how dramatic it was.

• 34:50Chris Ryan?

  A xenomorph is in Doomsday.

• 34:51Andy Greenwald?

  So it's incredible that honestly this show is getting this much of our attention.

• 34:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:56Andy Greenwald?

  But yeah, like, but there's also some of the joys of the show to me still remain in the like, man, if it ain't broke, this good old fashioned TV machine can still really deliver when you do it right.

• 35:09Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 35:10Andy Greenwald?

  For example, Carol sends out the message of we have to defeat these things when she is in one state of mind. And then 50 plus days pass during which time she has a complete breakdown and claws herself back together and opens her heart to if not love, then the status quo.

• 35:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:29Andy Greenwald?

  And that's when the message is answered. Like that's just, as my friend in the writers' room in London would say, that's just good telly.

• 35:37Chris Ryan?

  Well, and I love the little flashes of like, yeah, we're kind of better at doing this and every like, like, uh, Zosia's saying, you're gonna have a visitor.

• 35:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Chris Ryan?

  It's just like, I think I'm gonna remember that line for a really long time, you know, like, and just that moment and that end of their, their sort of reverie and, and their moment of kind of honeymoon period being over.

• 36:04Andy Greenwald?

  I wish you could program Postmates to alert you that way.

• 36:07Chris Ryan?

  You're gonna have a visitor.

• 36:09Andy Greenwald?

  But the visitor's got soup. It still is very, very funny to me that. For all the ways we talk about the show and all the discourse surrounding the show, the fact that Vince Gilligan has made a show about a writer who is forced to generate some crap that she doesn't necessarily believe in and carries not just one whiteboard, but a nonsense whiteboard, then a secret better version whiteboard.

• 36:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 36:34Andy Greenwald?

  Is very, very on the nose and funny. And I just, I just really enjoy the visual of like, she's actually kind of working on both, but it's unclear which has her heart.

• 36:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Andy Greenwald?

  And as this episode goes on, like, do you think that she's adding to the truth about them board for any?

• 36:57Chris Ryan?

  I think that's how she understands the world is to document it, document the rules, to lay out the structure of it.

• 37:02Andy Greenwald?

  Break story.

• 37:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, to break story.

• 37:05Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Chris Ryan?

  I mean, that scene in the diner keeps coming, I keep coming back to it because this, this season and this show, there's been very, there's been several examples of invasion, you know, there's the invasion in the beginning that feels like invasions of body snatchers. There is the invasive technique that they would use to harvest her stem cells and that they say they cannot do without her consent.

• 37:29Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 37:29Chris Ryan?

  And then there is the invasion of her memory that takes place. And the fact that they can recreate this down to the waitress coming back and Carol's questions being like, where was she? And like, what did you do to her? You know, and it's like, well, yeah, she was in Miami, she was a cosmetologist and she's like, but you've just like moved her out here for this.

• 37:51Andy Greenwald?

  Cosplaying.

• 37:52Chris Ryan?

  Diorama of my past, but also I love living in this. And yeah, so I find that this show is just so thought provoking in a really cool way.

• 38:00Andy Greenwald?

  Where, if given the opportunity, what now shuttered businesses would you like the others to lovingly recreate for you?

• 38:12Andy Greenwald?

  Because that cafe you liked in Back Bay is still there, right?

• 38:16Andy Greenwald?

  The breakfast place?

• 38:17Chris Ryan?

  I don't, Charlie's is still there. I, I mean, some of the records, I mean, I would like them to reopen Kim's in like, perfect, you know, like, three floors vinyl DVD video.

• 38:32Andy Greenwald?

  Has Alec Ross Perry not done that?

• 38:33Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, he's like, he's got, like, he had to make the documentary about all the inventory, but I think Kim's in New York would be mine. What would be yours?

• 38:41Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, Great Lakes would be nice. Hi-fi bar, like the bars of our youth, you know, where our sobriety is etched into.

• 38:48Chris Ryan?

  All of those are, all of those are gone, huh?

• 38:50Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 38:51Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 38:52Andy Greenwald?

  How do you feel about that?

• 38:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, I felt it's a bummer.

• 38:58Chris Ryan?

  I don't want to live in Brooklyn, but like, I feel that, yeah.

• 39:01Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 39:01Chris Ryan?

  Um, all right, should we move on to land?

• 39:03Andy Greenwald?

  We should.

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• 40:28Speaker 00

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• 40:52Chris Ryan?

  Funky little episode of Landman. Um, you know, the precision of Pluribus is always in the back of my mind while I watch the, the free painting session that is Landman. And I appreciate both, you know, I think we can appreciate both styles of art, both styles of TV. What did you think of this episode?

• 41:15Andy Greenwald?

  I found, okay, well, I have a lot of specific things to discuss in the episode, but I did note, and I look, this is, maybe I'm a victim of my own success here because there's no question that the show is more normal this year.

• 41:26Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 41:27Andy Greenwald?

  There's no question and, and I have over the course of our conversation over it.

• 41:32Chris Ryan?

  You did watch the scene where Ally Larder celebrates her own birthday, even though it's not her birthday at the old person's.

• 41:38Andy Greenwald?

  And receives only sex toys?

• 41:39Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 41:39Andy Greenwald?

  I did.

• 41:40Chris Ryan?

  Super normal.

• 41:41Andy Greenwald?

  I did. It's still in the Landman universe. Okay. Like it is still within that, but like it's, here's a comparison. It's a little bit like, uh, the difference between the Sorkin West Wing and the John Wells West Wing, you know, where like some of the, I wrote this entire season while on a crack bender, uh, poetry has been turned into more, something more prosaic.

• 42:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Andy Greenwald?

  Um, so it, there are, there, I, my, my feeling about the show is not spiking like, uh, like Karen Sorkin's EKG while writing season one of the West Wing.

• 42:21Andy Greenwald?

  I'm fine with it more. I don't know if that's healthier or not.

• 42:23Chris Ryan?

  Well, the highs maybe not are as high, but the lows are certainly not as low.

• 42:27Andy Greenwald?

  For sure.

• 42:28Chris Ryan?

  I think the last two episodes, I sort of felt the non-traditional pacing of the season. And how many times we've done the same scene, basically, over and over again before, like,

• 42:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 42:43Chris Ryan?

  And it was really only at the end of this episode or towards the end of this episode that I feel like there was actually like, okay, now the dynamic between Kami and Tommy has changed, or the dynamic between Kami and Danny and Tommy has changed, or Rebecca is now operating within the context of the company rather than

• 43:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Chris Ryan?

  having scenes separate from the entire cast.

• 43:02Andy Greenwald?

  So much real estate has been given over to trying to normalize things so it runs on time, right?

• 43:08Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 43:09Andy Greenwald?

  This entire, the pacing of this show is so odd, like this entire season could have been a webisode and then it could have started.

• 43:14Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:15Andy Greenwald?

  Um, to your point, like, sometimes being kind of, uh, reasonable doesn't suit the nature of the show.

• 43:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 43:22Andy Greenwald?

  For example, there is, there are, there's an A/B of two legal scenes involving Rebecca. One involves Nate, which was cute, because I haven't seen him outside of the house, I think, in the entire run of the show.

• 43:32Chris Ryan?

  Kung Fu has been, has been Midland only.

• 43:34Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and the first version of the scene, Rebecca comes in and absolutely eviscerates a table full of

• 43:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 43:44Andy Greenwald?

  dopes.

• 43:45Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 43:46Andy Greenwald?

  The same scene happens with really no

• 43:49Chris Ryan?

  And we've been trained as an audience to be like, oh, Rebecca's about to hand these guys their asses.

• 43:53Andy Greenwald?

  But now when Nate slash Neil shows up, suddenly these guys find their mojo and it's the same scene, only now the guys are like, actually, we're gonna tell you how it goes.

• 44:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:03Andy Greenwald?

  Which I don't think that's how law works.

• 44:07Chris Ryan?

  Let's ask you.

• 44:08Andy Greenwald?

  If that's how law works, Better Call Saul would have been a limited series.

• 44:11Chris Ryan?

  What do you think you understand more?

• 44:13Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm, no, I like this question.

• 44:14Chris Ryan?

  What Monty was doing with $400 million?

• 44:17Andy Greenwald?

  Right, sure, moving it around, yeah.

• 44:19Chris Ryan?

  What Cooper was doing with the six wells that all struck it rich, but somehow he doesn't have any money to pay anyone for, and now Tommy has just taken over his wells, but to protect him from the cartel.

• 44:32Andy Greenwald?

  But he's also getting into business with the cartel. So Tommy is like, I will, MTEx will buy your cartel owned and operated wells, but I draw the line at the cartel funding any other well.

• 44:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 44:45Andy Greenwald?

  That's a, that's a difficult moral position to stake out.

• 44:49Chris Ryan?

  Like, I don't even understand in terms of like the deal, like the Sunrisa, the Danny's company.

• 44:57Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm. Sorry, just.

• 44:59Chris Ryan?

  Gave Cooper a loan that he never checked for, or like never, never cashed the check, or there is $40 million in an account somewhere. That just, that part of it.

• 45:08Andy Greenwald?

  Problematic, because what, again, the show is, it seems like it is set to really begin with season three.

• 45:16Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 45:17Andy Greenwald?

  Because the amount of work to get here is so extreme.

• 45:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Andy Greenwald?

  So in season one, Cooper is a iconoclastic, individualistic genius who sees the game board in a way no one else does. He.

• 45:31Chris Ryan?

  Sees widows where no one else does.

• 45:33Andy Greenwald?

  He sure does. He's like, he's, he, he, he billy beans the whole thing. And it's like, this is the underutilized asset. And he, with his charming personal skills, strikes oil and becomes incredibly rich. Instantly, not only is he told, you don't actually have any money, but there was no paperwork and no agreement. But there was nothing in the first season to suggest that he needed to be staked to do any of this.

• 45:58Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 45:58Andy Greenwald?

  It's just they put the thing in the ground and the oil comes out.

• 46:00Chris Ryan?

  It seemed like he had basically found like a cheap way to look for oil.

• 46:04Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 46:04Chris Ryan?

  And hit it like harder than anyone thought anyone could do. Yes.

• 46:09Andy Greenwald?

  And now.

• 46:10Chris Ryan?

  Now they've retconned in that he had financing for this.

• 46:14Andy Greenwald?

  And that he's a moron who doesn't read the fine print.

• 46:18Chris Ryan?

  Well, I, here's my, here's my thing with that is, this is kind of like, also ties into the Ariana part where. It almost is like, it's not like they focus group it or test it, but it's almost like, what if they broke up? Nah, I like those two kids together, you know, and so they bring, and now we've kinda had-

• 46:37Andy Greenwald?

  Not only, let's bring them back together, let's have her say, "I don't believe in divorce, and we will never, ever break up, so buckle up."

• 46:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 46:45Andy Greenwald?

  It did lead to a really fantastic hashtag girl dad scene. It's just been a banner year for them across the board, one battle after another, J. Kelly, and the time when Cooper drives, I did, I did the math, eight and a half hours-

• 46:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 46:58Andy Greenwald?

  -to Corpus Christi to have a Michelob Ultra with a man who says, "I don't really care what she does, and you don't seem like a violent man, but if you touch her, I will rip you limb from limb."

• 47:08Chris Ryan?

  You know what?

• 47:09Andy Greenwald?

  And then, by the way, the bedsmaids stay the night.

• 47:11Chris Ryan?

  One of the hallmarks of season two is that people are driving when they used to fly.

• 47:15Andy Greenwald?

  Here's my, thank you for this. This is my-

• 47:18Chris Ryan?

  Tommy even says it in this episode, where I feel bad that we're so much more articulate about Landman maybe than Pluribus, but Tommy even says it in this episode where he's like, "Well, my day is, I gotta get in a car, drive three hours-

• 47:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 47:31Chris Ryan?

  -to have a two-minute conversation, drive another three hours to have like another conversation, and then get home in time for a pirate dinner."

• 47:39Andy Greenwald?

  The show is a closed loop. The show is an argument only for itself. The only reason why we need to drill for this much oil is to fuel the gasoline in the trucks of the characters who work in the oil industry.

• 47:53Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 47:54Andy Greenwald?

  That's it. No one else drives this much. Low-key, Landman is the most strident argument I've ever seen on a mass media platform for high-speed rail.

• 48:03Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 48:04Andy Greenwald?

  Like-

• 48:05Chris Ryan?

  Or private planes.

• 48:08Andy Greenwald?

  There is a strong argument to be made that with the proper investment in infrastructure, all of their lives would be better.

• 48:14Chris Ryan?

  But there's that scene where Tommy's like, "You guys fly back to Midland, and I'll see you at dinner, but I'm gonna drive my truck because this, this MTX pickup couldn't possibly be left in Dallas and maybe driven down by like-

• 48:27Andy Greenwald?

  Or flown back to get it again.

• 48:28Chris Ryan?

  Or whatever, yeah.

• 48:28Andy Greenwald?

  Also, I like to have some time to myself. Also, I will do a five-hour drive in 3:15, leaving myself enough time to stop for a couple cold ones.

• 48:39Chris Ryan?

  And a very special kinda cold one, because we've now got some competition in the Michelob Ultra competition Olympics. Troy Aikman's eight beer, which we are informed Tommy can either taste nor smell-

• 48:51Andy Greenwald?

  This is a new wrinkle that we've learned this many episodes in.

• 48:54Chris Ryan?

  Aikman's beer.

• 48:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 48:56Chris Ryan?

  Either Aikman and Taylor Sheridan are friends and Taylor Sheridan's like, we're gonna prop up your brewery.

• 49:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 49:02Chris Ryan?

  Or Taylor Sheridan hates this beer.

• 49:05Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 49:05Chris Ryan?

  So he's like, I will feature it, but my main character. This is the first time we've ever heard that he can't smell or taste, correct?

• 49:12Andy Greenwald?

  It does help me understand his response to the truffle dinner.

• 49:16Chris Ryan?

  And also the fact that he just smokes inside with those windows rolled up all the time.

• 49:20Andy Greenwald?

  And that for breakfast, as a 70 year old stressed man, he orders four eggs and fried eggs and a side of sausage and then eats none of it.

• 49:29Chris Ryan?

  Okay, uh, this brings me to the most important question I had for you on this entire podcast.

• 49:34Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 49:35Chris Ryan?

  In this episode.

• 49:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 49:36Chris Ryan?

  I noticed for the first time.

• 49:38Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm.

• 49:39Chris Ryan?

  That across the street from the patch, our beloved 24 hour.

• 49:43Andy Greenwald?

  Hangout, yeah.

• 49:44Chris Ryan?

  Bar grill. That there is another restaurant.

• 49:48Andy Greenwald?

  Marjorie's or something.

• 49:49Chris Ryan?

  JD's Burgers.

• 49:50Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, what was Marjorie's?

• 49:51Chris Ryan?

  Oh, maybe, maybe there's Marjorie's too.

• 49:53Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's probably a wine bar, small plates.

• 49:56Chris Ryan?

  First of all, what do you think it's like for the restaurant across the street from the patch? Cause the patch seems like it's like, it's like Max and Helen's. They've got like a two and a half hour wait.

• 50:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 50:07Chris Ryan?

  It's like, it's just crazy. But if you're just like, hey, you guys, we have a seat right now.

• 50:13Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, there's not, there's a proud tradition of this, right? There's always the like, the tourists might get tired one block too soon.

• 50:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 50:21Andy Greenwald?

  And wander in here.

• 50:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 50:23Andy Greenwald?

  Um, I don't know. It's also possible that it's kind of like a, what's it called? JD's?

• 50:30Chris Ryan?

  I think it's JD's hamburgers. Yeah.

• 50:32Andy Greenwald?

  So maybe JD is like, you know, he's like the Una Pizza Napolitana guy, right? Like, he's just like, every day I make 50 burgers and there's no other nonsense here. And don't come in here asking for a full bar. Don't come in here asking for a chicken fried anything. Don't come in here.

• 50:49Chris Ryan?

  I have a, I have a burger. There's a burger or there's a cheeseburger too.

• 50:52Andy Greenwald?

  And, and you'll, you'll fucking like it.

• 50:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm interested in that.

• 50:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And these guys want more of a cheesecake factory. Like you can get breakfast for dinner. You can get dinner for breakfast. And we know you work 24 hours a day. I do think Top Javelin Basin would, would do well.

• 51:06Andy Greenwald?

  I think it would be brief. I think it would be brief. Um, what did you make of Sam Elliott's scene work with, uh, with Audrey McGraw? Daughter of Tim McGraw in Faith Hill.

• 51:19Chris Ryan?

  Pretty weird.

• 51:20Andy Greenwald?

  Kinda weird.

• 51:21Chris Ryan?

  But I think it's just like, he just wanted to have a conversation.

• 51:24Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 51:25Chris Ryan?

  But they're trying to have it both ways with Sam Elliott. Still a very attractive man. But mentions that he's 80 in the, in the show. I think, I kinda wanted Tommy to just pick him up and bring him along with him all day. Like, it seemed like that would be the most obvious thing. I do actually wonder whether, whether Sam Elliott is like.

• 51:42Andy Greenwald?

  I don't want to be in a car all day?

• 51:43Chris Ryan?

  I have to be, I can sit, or I can get up twice.

• 51:47Andy Greenwald?

  Or do you think it's an insurance issue where they're like, we cannot underwrite a show in which a 70-year-old man is driving an 80-year-old man? All respect, I'm just saying, like, we gotta deal with the facts.

• 51:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. We're closer to being 70 and 80 than we are being 20 and 30.

• 52:00Andy Greenwald?

  Why do you have to say this? Kai is right here, like, come on. Who wins when you say that? What is the upside?

• 52:08Chris Ryan?

  Taylor Sheridan does.

• 52:10Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, we're still talking about his show.

• 52:11Chris Ryan?

  We can wrap it up there.

• 52:12Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think you'd do well with this kind of driving culture?

• 52:15Chris Ryan?

  I'd like to think so, but I, I think I would do okay if it was flat roads and not a lot of traffic. I noted with interest that Tommy drives into the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

• 52:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:27Chris Ryan?

  With literally not another car on the road.

• 52:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Chris Ryan?

  Uh, which.

• 52:31Andy Greenwald?

  It's very Pluribus, as was Cooper driving, listening to language tapes. I was getting that TV drift where I'm like, oh, this is very Minusos right now.

• 52:40Chris Ryan?

  I just think these guys gotta make some phone calls, you know? You do not have to drive to Corpus.

• 52:44Andy Greenwald?

  We shouldn't mock this, because.

• 52:46Chris Ryan?

  And it was also like, Ariana was like, he's like, yeah, she doesn't have to ask me for permission, and she knows that, and she just wanted to see if you would do it. I'd be pretty pissed.

• 52:54Andy Greenwald?

  I would be so pissed. I'm pissed if someone, like, if I have to pick up something at the dry cleaning. Let alone drive eight hours to talk to a guy with a killer dog who doesn't want to talk to me.

• 53:03Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 53:04Andy Greenwald?

  Um, that said, we should be respectful, because if anyone like this is out there, like, living like this, podcasts must be as important as gasoline.

• 53:12Chris Ryan?

  I would hope so.

• 53:13Andy Greenwald?

  That is a, that's a lot, and they don't even have air conditioning in these trucks. You notice that? They're all sweating.

• 53:19Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's because I think it's supposed to be summer in Texas, because otherwise, why isn't Ainsley ever at school?

• 53:24Andy Greenwald?

  Well, she's too old.

• 53:26Chris Ryan?

  I saw an interview on Instagram with Michelle Randolph, who plays Ainsley, and they were like, what are you, what are you hoping for, for Ainsley in the future? And she was like, I'd love it if she grew up a little bit. She was just like, I'd love to, yeah.

• 53:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 53:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:40Andy Greenwald?

  She's not old enough to see the presents her mom got at the sex toy party. You know what? I feel like I enjoyed this episode more than you did.

• 53:50Chris Ryan?

  I did enjoy it. I also enjoyed Andy Garcia draining five straight putts in his office.

• 53:55Andy Greenwald?

  Were those challenging putts to make?

• 53:57Chris Ryan?

  Nah, I mean, just it's steady nerves. You just have to really concentrate. You know, if Billy Bob Thornton was yelling at me, I don't think I would. I would be so, so in the cup like that.

• 54:06Andy Greenwald?

  It's just. It's honestly exhausting where it's just like this episode, they're friends. This episode Tommy's like, I don't want your fucking money.

• 54:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Andy Greenwald?

  And then next episode it's like.

• 54:14Chris Ryan?

  Friends, but not us. I don't know why I just did Will Ferrell from Eastbound.

• 54:17Andy Greenwald?

  I know why you did. Cause we wish we were talking about that instead.

• 54:20Chris Ryan?

  Uh, let's wrap it up.

• 54:22Andy Greenwald?

  All right.

• 54:22Chris Ryan?

  A long day of podding for us. So we'll have some really cool stuff on Pluribus for you guys next week, as well as a mailbag on Monday.

• 54:29Andy Greenwald?

  Did you know that you can't be landman and a president? That was the one piece of information we got this episode.

• 54:33Chris Ryan?

  Why not?

• 54:34Andy Greenwald?

  That's what, that's what Nate says to him. It reminded me of like.

• 54:37Chris Ryan?

  Oh, but do you mean that emotionally or you can't actually have both jobs?

• 54:41Andy Greenwald?

  It just reminded me of like the Tracy Jordan movies from 30 Rock. It's like black cop, white cop, it's like landman president. How could one man be both?

• 54:49Chris Ryan?

  Uh, thanks to Kaya, thanks to Kai, uh, and we will be back on Monday with our mailbag.

• 55:03Speaker 06

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