‘Industry’ Season 4 Is Here, and It’s Bolder Than Ever. Plus, the Golden Globes and ‘Landman’ S2E9.

Chris and Andy talk about what they liked (and hated) about the Golden Globes awards ceremony (5:12). Then they react to the Season 4 premiere of ‘Industry’ and talk about why this season’s reboot is akin to ‘The Wire’ Season 2 (30:18). Later, they discuss the penultimate episode of ‘Landman’ Season 2 and why the show has officially jumped the shark (01:00:05). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Additional Video Supervision: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:25Speaker 01

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• 1:30Speaker 03

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• 2:04Speaker 03

  I need sports staff to clear the room.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  Stand up and walk now.

• 2:10Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he just threw into triple coverage, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 2:23Andy Greenwald?

  Does ending my season?

• 2:25Chris Ryan?

  What season? I'm here for Liverpool. I'm here for the Philadelphia Phillies. I'm fine.

• 2:30Andy Greenwald?

  You just turned the page.

• 2:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 2:32Chris Ryan?

  Like Bob Seeger. Andy, great to see you, man. Here we are on Monday. We're gonna talk about the season premiere of Industry. We're gonna talk about the penultimate episode of Landman.

• 2:40Andy Greenwald?

  That was the penultimate episode?

• 2:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42Andy Greenwald?

  Jesus Christ.

• 2:43Chris Ryan?

  And we are gonna talk about the Golden Globes. You can reach us at thewatch at spotify.com. You can watch us on YouTube at the Ringer TV channel, or on Spotify, where I hope you're listening to us, where you enjoy all of our works.

• 2:55Andy Greenwald?

  You can watch us on Spotify too, it turns out.

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  That's what I mean. That's what I just said.

• 2:59Andy Greenwald?

  But they said, "I hope you're listening to us on Spotify."

• 3:00Chris Ryan?

  You can watch us on Spotify, where I also hope you're listening to us. I just kinda butchered that. And then you can follow us on Instagram, thewatchpod underscore.

• 3:08Andy Greenwald?

  We're both, we're both maybe. I mean, I think we have a lot to say today, but we're both apparently struggling a little bit.

• 3:14Chris Ryan?

  I have no Jerome Powell, and I will be standing by him today.

• 3:19Andy Greenwald?

  You wanna talk about the importance of an independent fiduciary policy for a nation?

• 3:23Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:25Andy Greenwald?

  I just want to acknowledge...

• 3:28Chris Ryan?

  That you're wearing Eagles green, vaguely Eagles green today.

• 3:31Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I'd like, can I take it off?

• 3:34Andy Greenwald?

  Can I wave the white flag of my t-shirt instead?

• 3:36Chris Ryan?

  The problem is you have a Kevin Patullo t-shirt on.

• 3:40Andy Greenwald?

  It is funny, because I was gonna come in today and be like, if there's one underqualified buffoon whose job security I would like to imperil today in all of America, and I was gonna say Kevin Patullo, but then I realized in the scheme of things, maybe there are other people who should lose their jobs first, and I should ratchet it down. But I do want to acknowledge the fact that last week I did predict... The worst possible Sunday for your friend and the co-host of this podcast.

• 4:06Chris Ryan?

  But the thing about you is that you know, you see it coming.

• 4:09Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:10Chris Ryan?

  And you don't avoid it. You drive right into it. Like, I told you to watch Landman. I told you that you should like mix it up a little bit. I did. I didn't think it would be healthy for you to do nine hours of Eagles, Globes, Landman.

• 4:21Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 4:22Chris Ryan?

  And capping it with Landman. Did you do anything else after Landman?

• 4:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, well, so I did. I did have a sense because I'm trying to do some self-reflection. I was like, the way that I feel.

• 4:31Chris Ryan?

  The idea that you're not self-reflecting other times.

• 4:33Andy Greenwald?

  Never.

• 4:34Chris Ryan?

  That's so fucking funny.

• 4:36Andy Greenwald?

  This is like the midpoint of life. I'm like, maybe I should just turn the camera inward for a second.

• 4:40Chris Ryan?

  Should I try therapy?

• 4:41Andy Greenwald?

  Critic, criticize thyself. Oh, I've tried it. I just want to perfect it.

• 4:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:45Andy Greenwald?

  You know, I was like, I'm sensing some sort of like heart racing and like levels of stress because it could be, again, could be. I don't know if anyone's ever gonna FOIA my texts to Sheil during the game yesterday, but they might reveal this to be the case. I don't think I have a healthy relationship to sports. I think I have a deeply dysregulated relationship to sports.

• 5:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:04Andy Greenwald?

  And those on the other end of my texts know this. So I was like, that plus that abomination of a television episode of Landman, plus a very dull Globes that we're gonna get into.

• 5:14Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 5:14Andy Greenwald?

  Did put me in a place of like, I definitely need to wind down a little bit here, you know, maybe a little old magnesium, a little tea, some quiet time reading. And you know that my, the greatest joy of the last few weeks has been reading this recently translated 75-year-old German epic, Effingers, which is like

• 5:34Andy Greenwald?

  the best book I've read in years. And I was like, at least I have this 800-page tome. I'm nearing the end. I'm on page 700. But again, you can predict where this is going. The book spans life in a Jewish family in Germany from the 1870s to the 1930s.

• 5:49Chris Ryan?

  Can't blame Kevin Bedula for that.

• 5:51Andy Greenwald?

  Well, equal levels of not seeing the field, I would say.

• 5:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 5:55Andy Greenwald?

  So I was like, I will wind down by reading these chapters of this wonderful book. And like, the first chapter I read was 1930. And I was like, this is going about as well as the second half.

• 6:06Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 6:06Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean?

• 6:07Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 6:07Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't really take the edge off.

• 6:09Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 6:09Andy Greenwald?

  History is a terrible spoiler sometimes.

• 6:12Chris Ryan?

  You know, I, I, I think we're underselling the return of one of our favorite TV shows of the last five years. So we can say that.

• 6:18Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 6:18Chris Ryan?

  Had you watched Industry last?

• 6:20Andy Greenwald?

  So I saved it. I saved it. I mean, I saved myself. I watched Industry before Sunday.

• 6:24Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 6:25Andy Greenwald?

  So I was slightly thinking.

• 6:26Chris Ryan?

  And we are, we are going to be covering Industry episode by episode and we have not watched ahead, which is sometimes to the annoyance of, of the creators of Industry. I think they like to, the whole picture to be seen. But, you know, this is the way it's being released. So I think it like is a little healthier to watch it like the way that everybody else is rather than be like, well, you, you, you guys just wait till episode four.

• 6:47Andy Greenwald?

  In Effinger, the book I'm reading, that would be called being Volk, you know, like of the people.

• 6:52Chris Ryan?

  I ain't saying Volk.

• 6:53Andy Greenwald?

  Is that what you were trying to say? I just wanted to like relate it to my perspective, which is 1930s Germany.

• 6:58Chris Ryan?

  What did you want to talk about the Eagles at all? Do you need to get anything off your chest?

• 7:01Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 7:01Chris Ryan?

  I, I feel like you have a lot today. Like I'm, I'm here.

• 7:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Chris Ryan?

  To just throw bounce passes to you and then, and then screen away.

• 7:10Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, I think we should have started in a more healthy place.

• 7:13Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 7:13Andy Greenwald?

  Which is acknowledging that one person in the room is an award winner today.

• 7:18Chris Ryan?

  Oh my God, how could we forget?

• 7:20Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, congratulations.

• 7:21Chris Ryan?

  Kaia McMullin, one of the producers of Good Hang with Amy Poehler, which won the inaugural Best Podcast Award at the Golden Globes.

• 7:28Andy Greenwald?

  Won it going away if the branded polymarket content was anything to go on.

• 7:32Chris Ryan?

  How much liquidity were you exposed to in that polymarket? Like, had you been betting on your own success or against it? Were you hedging?

• 7:40Speaker 06

  What's a short?

• 7:43Speaker 06

  I was shorting it?

• 7:44Chris Ryan?

  That's what Harper Stern would have shorted it, I guess.

• 7:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 7:48Chris Ryan?

  Um, no, it was incredible. It was incredible. Amy getting up there.

• 7:51Speaker 06

  Thanks, guys.

• 7:52Chris Ryan?

  Shouting out Bill in the Ringer and everybody and, uh, you know, a really, really amazing achievement.

• 7:58Andy Greenwald?

  And sticking it to NPR.

• 7:59Chris Ryan?

  I know. Seriously. Kicking them while they're down.

• 8:02Andy Greenwald?

  Also, by the way, the turnaround on the Globes, like for the bit that Nikki Glaser did, which was funny, Marc Maron is a part of it.

• 8:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Andy Greenwald?

  The clip they used from Good Hang was from the Gwyneth episode, which went up like five days ago. So they were on it.

• 8:13Chris Ryan?

  I know, current. Do you think the Globes should just start giving out awards for random other stuff?

• 8:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 8:19Chris Ryan?

  Like,

• 8:19Andy Greenwald?

  At this point, yes.

• 8:20Chris Ryan?

  It felt like they had a little bit more dip on the chip for the podcast awards.

• 8:25Andy Greenwald?

  And the stand-up comedy special award.

• 8:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. But like, maybe they differentiate themselves a little bit by doing like, getting a little like MTV Movie Awards kind of vibes of like Best Kiss kind of thing.

• 8:38Andy Greenwald?

  I'm ready to talk about this. I, and first of all, I thought, yeah, like the way to spice it up would have been like if the smartest guys had kissed.

• 8:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:45Andy Greenwald?

  Then it would have been.

• 8:46Chris Ryan?

  We, we can do the headline at the top. So.

• 8:48Andy Greenwald?

  The headline is, congratulations, Kaya.

• 8:49Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 8:50Andy Greenwald?

  The right woman and the right podcast won. That was thrilling. We're, can't believe you're here working with us again today. We're so sorry, but I guess that's life in Hollywood. You know, the highs to the lows.

• 8:58Chris Ryan?

  The subhead, right? So it's like Jerome Powell being criminally investigated. Then it's like, oh no, the money. Right? That's the subhead.

• 9:06Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, no, the money. Should I have my alerts on? What's going on?

• 9:10Chris Ryan?

  And so the secondary headline here is we have nothing to talk about because this Golden Globes essentially mirrored the Emmys, with the exception of Ray Sehorn's victory for Best Actress Drama.

• 9:22Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 9:23Chris Ryan?

  This was essentially chalk. It went Adolescents for Best Limited. Adolescents won a bunch of the acting awards for limited series. Stephen Graham, Aaron Doherty, Doherty, Owen Cooper, all racked up victories there. The Pit won Best Drama, Best Actor.

• 9:38Andy Greenwald?

  The Studio.

• 9:38Chris Ryan?

  And the Studio won Best Comedy and Best Actor. So all that stuff basically mirrored what happened in the Emmys several months ago.

• 9:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 9:46Chris Ryan?

  And I think that's fine. I don't really have a huge bit of arguing. Jean Smart won for Best Comedy Actress.

• 9:55Andy Greenwald?

  Her date, Casey Blowers looked great.

• 9:57Chris Ryan?

  Was that her date?

• 9:58Andy Greenwald?

  No, no. Casey was at that table with the HBO gang and he looked great.

• 10:00Chris Ryan?

  Um, so yeah, congratulations to those shows. I, I think that this is indicative of how I believe that if you're going to do these TV awards, you should get a little bit more creative with the calendar.

• 10:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. I, so I thought that was a relatively awful slog of a broadcast.

• 10:16Chris Ryan?

  Well, we can get into the broadcast. I just meant like the takeaways.

• 10:19Andy Greenwald?

  But it would have been enlivened by some variety in the award, in the awards. But I also will circle back to. This is year three, I believe, of the resurrected Golden Globes. And for those who haven't been paying attention at home, none of whom listen to this podcast, I imagine, but I don't know, maybe Kai has a bandwagon or like, maybe Travis Kelsey's tuning in for the first time. It doesn't really know the history of the

• 10:42Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Well, he was just hoping to hear about what happens to the Avengers.

• 10:47Andy Greenwald?

  I think he's, yeah, well, I'm happy to talk about it.

• 10:50Chris Ryan?

  Travis Kelsey is like really mad that we didn't start with industry.

• 10:54Andy Greenwald?

  No, he's, he's good. There's timestamps. You can follow.

• 10:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 10:59Andy Greenwald?

  I do like this bit, though. What do you think Travis thought about that take?

• 11:04Andy Greenwald?

  Fucking, anyway.

• 11:07Andy Greenwald?

  So this is year three of the rebooted Golden Globes. And prior to the rebirth, it was an absolute dumpster fire of chaos, bribery and nonsense that often produced a relatively fun

• 11:23Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:23Andy Greenwald?

  broadcast product because it was

• 11:25Chris Ryan?

  skinny people drinking on empty stomachs.

• 11:28Andy Greenwald?

  Well said.

• 11:28Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 11:28Andy Greenwald?

  Well said. It was a silly drunken Hollywood party that no one took too seriously, that also did have a chaotic energy because the six over-served Belgian journalists who voted for it would, could be swayed in ways that created unexpected results at times.

• 11:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Andy Greenwald?

  And I point to this constantly, but the benefit of its place in the calendar and its differentiation from the Emmys in terms of like its window of what it considered, allowed for it to be at the tip of the spear, as they say, in terms of anointing the next big shows. Homeland winning when it had only been as best drama series when its first season was, you know, still fresh. It'd been airing for like two months, I think. In 2011, I think that was, as an example.

• 12:18Andy Greenwald?

  Everything has gotten much more chalk and in its new version. And the reason, the other reason why I think it's worth pointing out now is because when it was rebooted, there was a pretty disastrous broadcast that Joe Coy hosted. I'm not saying it was his fault.

• 12:30Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 12:30Andy Greenwald?

  Nobody pointed to that as a particularly great night.

• 12:32Chris Ryan?

  I had forgotten that, honestly, yeah.

• 12:34Andy Greenwald?

  Nikki Glaser came on last year and to her credit, like stabilized it as a relatively like, okay, I recognize this as an award show. She did a good job. She did a fine job again last night. She's a very decent host of these things. She had her moments. But as we also know, hosts can't make or break an award show.

• 12:49Chris Ryan?

  I am a fan of hers.

• 12:50Andy Greenwald?

  Well, this episode, this broadcast, though, and the awards, I don't understand what its purpose is. If it has now become so respectable as to basically with a few, one or two exceptions, Wagner Moore being the biggest one, they just seems to validate the polymarket pre-existing thinking of what the night is going to be.

• 13:07Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 13:08Andy Greenwald?

  And then you pair it with an absolutely amateur hour broadcast, which we can get into. It was a kind of a giant shrug. I don't take any argument, like Adolescence in the Studio were in our top five. Like those shows are amazing. The people who won deserve to have won. But if you're just going to run him back the Emmys and preview and rubber stamp the Oscars, what's the point?

• 13:28Chris Ryan?

  I agree with you. Obviously, there is the money to be made that it's on CBS.

• 13:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 13:32Chris Ryan?

  And it is clearly something that whatever reservations people had about its past or the fact that it is owned and operated, I believe, by Todd Bowley and Penske Media, which is essentially like.

• 13:47Andy Greenwald?

  It's Penske Media, yeah.

• 13:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so.

• 13:49Andy Greenwald?

  Who own, who own all the trades. Hollywood Reporter and Variety and Deadline are all owned by the same company.

• 13:55Chris Ryan?

  And so, and now it's like basically an extension of that. I think it is still voted on a group of foreign journalists.

• 14:01Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think it's necessarily foreign anymore.

• 14:03Chris Ryan?

  Oh, really?

• 14:04Andy Greenwald?

  I think, I think they've, they've made the Golden Globes great again.

• 14:07Chris Ryan?

  They've, they've gone, okay.

• 14:09Andy Greenwald?

  They've brought the voter, they've brought the voting home.

• 14:11Chris Ryan?

  Regardless, it's not a clear, I do not have clarity on like who is voting for Globes. Right? Like the way you do for the Academy Awards or for the guilds. Um, I agree with you. I think it kind of like, if anything, it's bad for the Oscars. Uh, I would say like having a show where, um, broadcast on a major network, where the contestants are all in attendance and for the most part, with the exception of like a few people like Ricky Gervais.

• 14:40Andy Greenwald?

  Sean Williams and Bobby Canavale, not nominated, but not there.

• 14:43Chris Ryan?

  But shopping for a lizard, yes, right.

• 14:44Andy Greenwald?

  Have to.

• 14:45Chris Ryan?

  It just kind of like takes a little bit of the, a couple of miles per hour off the, the Oscars. And especially since the Oscars are running so late, they're in March.

• 14:54Andy Greenwald?

  They haven't even, the nominations haven't even come out yet.

• 14:56Chris Ryan?

  I know. Now, we can get into if you wanted to. I mean, I think Sean and Amanda are obviously much better qualified to talk about.

• 15:01Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 15:02Chris Ryan?

  Hamid beating Sinner's and whether that means it's like an Oscar race now for Best Picture and what's going on there. But with the exception of Pluribus, I thought there was a lack of creativity. Now, I think it would have been sort of, so I, I think the pit and adolescence and the studio did, made a very good case to win all of those awards.

• 15:20Andy Greenwald?

  Absolutely.

• 15:21Chris Ryan?

  So it's not like I'm upset about it, but it just does feel like we're watching the same show over and over again at a certain point.

• 15:27Andy Greenwald?

  And it just seems, starts to seem like a bizarre humiliation ritual for the people involved in Severance to be like drawn out.

• 15:33Chris Ryan?

  That's exactly right.

• 15:34Andy Greenwald?

  This fucking hospital show came out of nowhere.

• 15:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Basically what you're left with is observations about that broadcast. Now, I have a couple of like just news and notes here.

• 15:42Andy Greenwald?

  Sure, let's do it.

• 15:43Chris Ryan?

  Um, let's talk a little bit about how, um, the Globes made a choice to cram every inch and centimeter of broadcast space, both in terms of visuals and audio.

• 15:56Andy Greenwald?

  Insanity.

• 15:56Chris Ryan?

  With shit, with stuff.

• 15:57Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 15:58Chris Ryan?

  So not only did we have, you know, you got your traditional awards set up, but then we also had play-by-play announcers, uh, Kevin Frazier and Mark Malkin.

• 16:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 16:09Chris Ryan?

  Uh, narrating, I guess, the events of the evening so that there was no dead time in between somebody being named the winner.

• 16:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 16:18Chris Ryan?

  And them getting to the stage. Now, I will just say, that doesn't seem like an amount of time that is fixed. Like it could take no time at all. It could take a little bit of time to get up there.

• 16:29Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 16:29Chris Ryan?

  You know, like people need help getting up in their heels and stuff like that. Like there's all this stuff. And they always seem to nail the amount. Like I was impressed with Mark Malkin being able to say. Leonardo DiCaprio, blah, blah, blah, and we'll see with, and then he would end as the guy got up on stage.

• 16:46Andy Greenwald?

  All due respect, but that's your clip, because if you want to go viral, Chris saying, I was impressed with Mark Malkin last night, I think, I think you are alone with that take.

• 16:53Chris Ryan?

  That is the extent of my being impressed. I do not know anything about him, or Kevin Frazier for that matter.

• 17:00Andy Greenwald?

  You don't watch a lot of like.

• 17:01Chris Ryan?

  This is something that we do not need as a society. We do not need play by play for the five seconds it takes Racy Horn to get up on stage.

• 17:09Andy Greenwald?

  It was hideous television, truly. And they talked more than.

• 17:17Chris Ryan?

  Than any, any winner, yeah, any winner, yes.

• 17:21Andy Greenwald?

  When they weren't talking, the same person who controls the aux cord at a senior center jazzercise class in fucking North Hollywood was rocking the room.

• 17:31Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 17:32Andy Greenwald?

  Stellan Skarsgård wins, and maybe they have announcers and they have an, like an overcompensating DJ because the Beverly Hilton's a relatively small, dense room and people have to navigate because only the superstars are in the front. So that was a long journey for an older man.

• 17:46Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 17:46Andy Greenwald?

  Who suffered, he's talked about, he's had a stroke three years ago. So it took him a minute and he was in no hurry. He was being greeted, he was being celebrated. I do think, I do wonder if there was a little bit of like little, little and, little and or energy fueling that win, just because people.

• 18:01Chris Ryan?

  What do you mean?

• 18:02Andy Greenwald?

  Well, just that like people vote for Stellan Skarsgård because he's one of the great actors of his generation.

• 18:06Chris Ryan?

  Sentimental value was like an and or appreciation vote?

• 18:10Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'm just saying, I wonder if that'd move the needle at all. People were like.

• 18:13Chris Ryan?

  I absolutely don't think so.

• 18:15Andy Greenwald?

  You don't think so? You don't think people are like, I have been reminded.

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  They would have nominated.

• 18:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, but I'm saying, first of all, we don't know who's voting on these awards.

• 18:22Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 18:22Andy Greenwald?

  The movie and the TV people are the same.

• 18:24Chris Ryan?

  Right, man. That's true. We can't say.

• 18:26Andy Greenwald?

  Clip when Chris says, you're exactly right, man. I'm trying to control this thing from the, outside the booth. Like Kevin Patullo on the sideline, you know what I'm saying? I'm going empty when I shouldn't be. Long walk, Little John's "Yeah" is playing.

• 18:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:42Andy Greenwald?

  Like on repeat, because it takes so long for him to get up there. Uh, what about when, when Jesse Buckley won, that was a lovely moment for a movie I promise you I will never see.

• 18:52Chris Ryan?

  Hamlet?

• 18:52Andy Greenwald?

  No, thanks. I'm good. I'm fine.

• 18:56Chris Ryan?

  Just because of the content?

• 18:57Andy Greenwald?

  Like, watch, never before has, has the, has there been a cinematic exploration of grief over child death like this? I'm like, I'll take your word for it.

• 19:09Andy Greenwald?

  Congrats, I ain't reading all that. You know what I mean? I'm not on the big picture like some of us. I'm good. Um, they're playing Isn't She Lovely? She's walking up there. I thought that was incredible. But anyway, it was the-

• 19:21Chris Ryan?

  I have to admit, when the, uh, the last forty-five minutes-

• 19:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:24Chris Ryan?

  This show was honestly so irritating-

• 19:26Andy Greenwald?

  So long.

• 19:27Chris Ryan?

  At the, after Kaya's big win-

• 19:29Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Chris Ryan?

  My wife and I were like, "Let's get beers." So we went out and I just-

• 19:32Andy Greenwald?

  We went out for beers?

• 19:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:34Andy Greenwald?

  You didn't have any beers in the house?

• 19:35Chris Ryan?

  We just decided to get out of the house. I, I had subjected her to a long day of, of me- She was like, "This is the longest football game that's ever happened."

• 19:43Andy Greenwald?

  It truly was.

• 19:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Andy Greenwald?

  My favorite, so, so they're doing the announcements. Uh, you know, I just want to return to this-

• 19:48Chris Ryan?

  Sorry, yeah.

• 19:48Andy Greenwald?

  Everyone's favorite.

• 19:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:50Andy Greenwald?

  And Timothy Chalamet wins for my favorite movie of the three movies I saw last year, Marty Supreme.

• 19:55Chris Ryan?

  You saw One Battle, Sinners, and Marty Supreme?

• 19:57Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't see Sinners.

• 19:58Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you saw One Battle-

• 19:59Andy Greenwald?

  Like the Golden Globe voters didn't see Sinners, but proud of its box office achievement. I will see it. No, I saw, you know-

• 20:06Chris Ryan?

  Don't write yourself checks, you kid cash.

• 20:08Andy Greenwald?

  I think that I can make it to seeing Sinners on my television-

• 20:12Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 20:12Andy Greenwald?

  At some point in the next four or five weeks. Um, I saw K-pop Demon Hunters. Do you want to hear your character comment?

• 20:19Chris Ryan?

  I haven't seen it, yeah.

• 20:20Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, they were like, this is a direct quote. "Well, Timothy thanked his girlfriend at the Critics' Choice Awards. Will he thank her again tonight?"

• 20:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I saw it when he said that. I was just like, "Mark, stay in your lane, brother." Like, don't, don't worry about who he's, who he's thanking.

• 20:35Andy Greenwald?

  What about when Adolescence, like, won, swept, like, won for a series? I don't remember. It was its final award. And the comment was, "Wow, Adolescence has swept these awards. Do we really have to wait two to three years for another one?"

• 20:47Chris Ryan?

  There is another one.

• 20:48Andy Greenwald?

  They're making another one?

• 20:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. That was like news to me, but then apparently he has said like, "Yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll return to Adolescence in a little while."

• 20:55Andy Greenwald?

  Is it gonna be someone else's adolescence?

• 20:56Chris Ryan?

  No, I think it'll probably be following up with where-

• 21:00Andy Greenwald?

  I think they should just do someone else's adolescence. Someone with like a chill adolescence.

• 21:04Chris Ryan?

  Oh, somebody who's just like hanging out?

• 21:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, so he gets really into the X-Men at twelve, and it's just like, "Oh, that's interesting. It's a metaphor."

• 21:10Chris Ryan?

  So you have a very specific idea about who's adolescence?

• 21:13Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think it should be fucking Hamlet's adolescence.

• 21:15Chris Ryan?

  It should be Wonders of you drinking a Diet Coke. Like, what is it?

• 21:19Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, I should drink Diet Coke when I was a kid. It was the straight stuff. That's why I am the way I am. I'm saying it won't be Hamlet's adolescence. You know what I mean?

• 21:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Andy Greenwald?

  From what I gather. Um, yeah, that was awful. Um-

• 21:32Andy Greenwald?

  What did you, did you enjoy as, as the podcast resident, heated rivalry fan? Did you enjoy the moment to celebrate the UFC before they entered?

• 21:40Chris Ryan?

  That was CBS.

• 21:42Andy Greenwald?

  What do you?

• 21:42Chris Ryan?

  CBS Paramount has purchased the rights to the, the broadcast rights to UFC. So that was just them like.

• 21:48Andy Greenwald?

  Reminding us.

• 21:48Chris Ryan?

  Put, putting a little bit of marmite on top of the toast.

• 21:51Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think they also used the UFC people to make sure that not a single nominee said anything remotely political all night?

• 21:57Chris Ryan?

  It's a really good point.

• 21:58Andy Greenwald?

  That was notable.

• 22:00Chris Ryan?

  Gene Smart was the closest who got, I mean, if Hannah Einbinder had won, she would have.

• 22:05Andy Greenwald?

  She just lit everything.

• 22:05Chris Ryan?

  She would have let him know.

• 22:06Andy Greenwald?

  She would have brought the contra fire, like flamethrower up with her.

• 22:10Chris Ryan?

  She also had to watch the Eagles game too.

• 22:12Andy Greenwald?

  That's true. So she was already in a, in a foul temper.

• 22:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, I, I did note with interest that there was a, a real lack of sloganeering, a real lack of any kind of political rhetoric whatsoever.

• 22:22Andy Greenwald?

  I thought that our Scott Gamble, when he went for the pit, made a very nice comment about how working on artistic projects brings people together. Which is much like making a podcast, you know, much like the X-Men. It's all basically one good time. Bunch of guys hanging out, having a good time.

• 22:38Chris Ryan?

  I thought that the heated rivalry guys were quite good.

• 22:40Andy Greenwald?

  They're sweet.

• 22:41Chris Ryan?

  They, uh, I, I wonder whether or not that's a phenomenon that has permeated, say the, the one battle after another table. You know, like who, who among the celebs were aware of that, of that, that the rocking, you know, superstardom that's happening to those guys?

• 22:57Andy Greenwald?

  I think people.

• 22:59Chris Ryan?

  One other note I had just here is like, I guess like this Hacks Bear thing is over.

• 23:07Chris Ryan?

  Now the bear still has more Emmys than hacks, but it does feel like it's been like two or three years nonstop of like hacks dubs.

• 23:17Andy Greenwald?

  Listen.

• 23:18Chris Ryan?

  This is my least, I'm, this is the thing I am least interested in the world, but I did note when it was like, oh yeah, I forgot. Like the bear is nominated, like Jeremy Allen White's nominated, all this stuff is nominated, like.

• 23:27Andy Greenwald?

  We should do a bit. That's just like admittedly concerned trolling because I don't think either you or I care about this and yet Jeremy Allen White, are we sure?

• 23:39Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I I'm sure.

• 23:40Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I'm sure because he's a wonderful actor and people love him, but I'm just saying he's had to like now sort of show up, get glammed up to lose for the bear multiple times and now to lose for the Springsteen movie, a movie which he poured his heart and soul into that was not greeted with hungry hearts, let's say.

• 23:57Chris Ryan?

  Sure, I think that uh.

• 24:00Andy Greenwald?

  And now he's gonna be a hut. In year number one twenty twenty six.

• 24:04Chris Ryan?

  Right, like he didn't have to get into like.

• 24:05Andy Greenwald?

  He mocapped the worm suit, you don't think he did?

• 24:08Chris Ryan?

  Is this in Grogu? It's Mandalorian and Grogu?

• 24:10Andy Greenwald?

  M and G, yeah.

• 24:12Chris Ryan?

  We can talk about that if you want to.

• 24:13Andy Greenwald?

  I don't want to at all, we're gonna have to at some point.

• 24:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that was really, I thought Wando Sykes was really funny, um.

• 24:19Andy Greenwald?

  I got two other notes.

• 24:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Andy Greenwald?

  I thought I was awesome, Rose Byrne won for again, a movie I haven't seen, but I'd like to try.

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  You're gonna try and you're gonna watch if I had legs, I'd kick you, I'd kick you, but you're not gonna watch it.

• 24:31Andy Greenwald?

  Before, well, you which one do you, have you seen either of these movies? Okay, so this is again, this is how you stay winning. Somehow the terms of debate have been set.

• 24:42Andy Greenwald?

  By Mr. Cool over here. Wow, you're really gonna choose that movie I haven't seen over the other movie?

• 24:47Chris Ryan?

  I just, I haven't seen, I haven't gotten to it yet, yeah.

• 24:50Andy Greenwald?

  You've been going to parties, what have you been doing?

• 24:51Chris Ryan?

  Watching fucking prestige television.

• 24:53Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that makes two of us. Anyway, I just, I like Rose Byrne a lot as an actor, I thought that was awesome. I thought it was very sweet because she was so surprised. It was a great moment on stage for, as she said, a small movie winning these things is more meaningful. Similarly, like Bogner Mora, who's a really good actor, winning for a movie that I also is on my list, would love to see, Secret Agent.

• 25:12Andy Greenwald?

  I also really appreciated that Rose Byrne thanked her date, her brother George Byrne, who's a great photographer. I have one of his prints.

• 25:19Chris Ryan?

  Geez.

• 25:19Andy Greenwald?

  Very talented photographer.

• 25:20Chris Ryan?

  Wow, you contain multitudes.

• 25:22Andy Greenwald?

  I'd like to keep a couple of things held back. Three things.

• 25:26Chris Ryan?

  Your secret little like, I'm an art guy thing is like, is interesting to me.

• 25:31Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think?

• 25:31Chris Ryan?

  Because you're not just like, I go to museums.

• 25:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 25:34Chris Ryan?

  But you're like, I like to dabble in collecting.

• 25:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, when I had an overall deal at Universal, I was dabble. I bought one picture.

• 25:42Chris Ryan?

  But sometimes I'll like post.

• 25:43Andy Greenwald?

  It's not like I can go to afford to go to Max and Helen's.

• 25:45Chris Ryan?

  I'll post stuff and you'll be like, where did you, did you purchase that? Where'd you see that?

• 25:49Andy Greenwald?

  I never asked if you purchased that.

• 25:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:52Andy Greenwald?

  I asked like, if you went to see Helen Frankenthaler at MoMA. I didn't say, did you purchase one of the five artworks hanging in the gallery?

• 26:01Andy Greenwald?

  Did you?

• 26:01Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 26:02Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. No. Also.

• 26:04Chris Ryan?

  That's why I need Jerome Powell to stay, to stand fast.

• 26:07Andy Greenwald?

  I led a stacked podcast with a small tee hee admission that I've been enjoying an 800-page German novel from 1951. No one's like, oh, does he like art?

• 26:20Andy Greenwald?

  Find a new slant. You know what I'm saying? Anyway.

• 26:26Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, as someone who has also recently been asked to investigate the purchase or adoption of a bearded dragon for the household.

• 26:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. What's up? Is that a new thing? Is that like, uh, why are kids getting into that?

• 26:39Andy Greenwald?

  Classrooms. They are, they are, uh, hardy pets for classrooms. So like, you know, we used to, when we were kids, we had like gerbils or like guinea pigs.

• 26:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Andy Greenwald?

  Now, at least in my, you know, however many years I've been a parent now, I should know that number, 12 and a half. It's lizards, exclusively lizards.

• 26:57Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 26:58Andy Greenwald?

  And bearded dragons seem like fine, they sit there.

• 27:01Chris Ryan?

  Hardy, like they can be pet a lot or like?

• 27:03Andy Greenwald?

  No, like they don't have to give the death talk too often.

• 27:06Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:06Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean?

• 27:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Andy Greenwald?

  So.

• 27:08Chris Ryan?

  They should see Hamlet.

• 27:09Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I'm saying. Keep it separate.

• 27:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Andy Greenwald?

  Hamlet, but about Hamlet's pet dragon, bearded dragon.

• 27:17Chris Ryan?

  We don't know for sure. We don't even know if, if he actually wrote Hamlet. You know what I mean? There's some debate about that.

• 27:23Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 27:23Chris Ryan?

  So who's to say that his kid didn't have a bearded dragon?

• 27:26Andy Greenwald?

  That's lost to the mysteries of time. Too bad there's not an Effingers like. History of the life of the Shakespeare family. I thought that was very sweet, the Roseburn thing. And yeah, like the Wagner Mora winning best actor and secret agent winning foreign film like.

• 27:44Chris Ryan?

  Awesome movie by the way.

• 27:44Andy Greenwald?

  That's kind of, you did see it.

• 27:46Chris Ryan?

  I did see Secret Agent, yes.

• 27:47Andy Greenwald?

  That is kind of what the Golden Globes used to do, both because of the international perspective, or whatever it may have been, and the kind of slight element of surprise. And I think that's ultimately good. So I think going into the Oscar nominations, like, oh, is Roseburn a player now? Is Wagner Mora a player now? Is, does Hamlet have the inside track over sinners? In the what is going to be one battle conversation? That stuff's interesting to me. And one battle is awesome. That was really cool when Tiana Taylor won and PTA giving very nice speeches.

• 28:16Chris Ryan?

  Speaking of that, speaking of that speech, the PTA speech. How do you say the last name of the man who wrote Gravity's Rainbow?

• 28:24Andy Greenwald?

  I was gonna ask you this.

• 28:25Chris Ryan?

  Because I feel like I just, like, Paul Thomas Anderson would know.

• 28:30Andy Greenwald?

  Unless we've been saying his name wrong and it's Paul Thomas Anderson. Cause he said Thomas Pinchon.

• 28:36Chris Ryan?

  I have been saying Thomas Pinchon for my whole life.

• 28:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, like Thomas Pinchon.

• 28:39Chris Ryan?

  Pinchon.

• 28:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  But he said Pinchon.

• 28:41Andy Greenwald?

  He did.

• 28:43Chris Ryan?

  And I don't know whether that's like a Valley thing, or that was like, I'm just, I'm just letting it loose. Like, I, like, I have, what is it called, malapropisms or whatever? Like, sometimes I, like, missay something or whatever, really, like. But I feel like he would know. And that's a name that he is, like, he might even have Thomas Pinchon's email address.

• 29:01Andy Greenwald?

  He's probably communicated with him at some point.

• 29:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:03Andy Greenwald?

  Also, this is, I just want to point out, the man of the people thing, you're wearing a Liverpool sweatshirt, a Phillies hat.

• 29:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Andy Greenwald?

  And you are, this is the most heated you've gotten so far in our podcast over the pronunciation of cult novelist Thomas Pinchon's name.

• 29:17Chris Ryan?

  I just wouldn't want to.

• 29:18Andy Greenwald?

  Who's the art guy?

• 29:19Chris Ryan?

  I wouldn't want to be mispronouncing the great man's name for this long. In fact, I was dapping myself up for reading Vineland last year.

• 29:26Andy Greenwald?

  You mean Vineland?

• 29:27Chris Ryan?

  And maybe it is, maybe it is.

• 29:29Andy Greenwald?

  We don't know. And frankly, we have no way of ever finding out. That was interesting.

• 29:33Chris Ryan?

  There were people who were much more like, it's Grantland.

• 29:37Andy Greenwald?

  And not Grantland.

• 29:38Chris Ryan?

  Grantland, that's how I say it. But maybe that's like a Philly thing, you know? Maybe it's like, like a casual kind of, you kind of swallow the end of the word thing.

• 29:46Andy Greenwald?

  Hmm. You think that like Californians are more confident?

• 29:49Chris Ryan?

  Pinchon, yeah, Thomas Pinchon.

• 29:51Andy Greenwald?

  What voice is that?

• 29:52Chris Ryan?

  That's like surfer dude.

• 29:53Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 29:54Chris Ryan?

  Like nasally, kinda California valley, hanging out, reading Thomas Pinchon.

• 29:59Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think a lot of surfers like Mason and Dixon? What is the Venn diagram of this particular character that you're creating for us?

• 30:06Chris Ryan?

  He wrote a lot about Southern California.

• 30:07Andy Greenwald?

  I know, but I just feel like you are micro-targeting right now. I'm not mad at it, that's what I usually do.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  That's all I got for the Globes, though. Uh...

• 30:14Andy Greenwald?

  Ty, were there after-parties for the podcast nominees? Anything?

• 30:19Speaker 06

  Um, I had my own personal after-party at a sushi restaurant, but...

• 30:23Chris Ryan?

  Nice. You had quite a weekend, or quite like an extended weekend, right?

• 30:27Speaker 06

  I mean, I worked a lot.

• 30:29Chris Ryan?

  No, I wasn't saying you didn't provide value to the company.

• 30:33Andy Greenwald?

  To the shareholders.

• 30:34Chris Ryan?

  I just meant it was like a fun weekend. It was like, you know, there was the Globes party last week.

• 30:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, Chris and I partied it up at the Globes party.

• 30:41Andy Greenwald?

  No, that's fine. That was the party that Chris cleared the lane. He made sure that I wasn't there dragging you guys down, which I respect. Tim Simons like, "Are you here?" And I was like, "Talk to your friend Chris." That would have been. Must be nice.

• 30:54Chris Ryan?

  Um...

• 30:55Andy Greenwald?

  You didn't make the photo carousel, though, of like Starry Night at the Hollywood Reporter Spotify party. It was the front page over the weekend.

• 31:05Chris Ryan?

  I did get, I got my picture taken with Tim at that party, and he was trying to give me tips about it.

• 31:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 31:10Chris Ryan?

  But I think I just looked like a balding accountant at that party, so I'm not surprised I didn't make the Hollywood Reporter carousel.

• 31:18Andy Greenwald?

  Sorry to go against the grain here, but The Hollywood Reporter ran a series of photos from the night. It was the headline over the weekend. They were very proud of their party, and it was like John Legend at the party. Uh, and then it was like Chaka Khan at the party, and maybe there was one of the heated rivalry people was there.

• 31:36Chris Ryan?

  The guy, the guy who plays Scott.

• 31:39Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, and the kid from Sinners was there, so there's pictures of these people, yeah. And then, then there's a picture of Tim, he looked great.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:45Andy Greenwald?

  He's the king of the red carpet these days, looks, looks amazing, proud of him. And then, then it was like the circulation director for Hollywood Reporter and Penske Media on the couch. And I told him, he was correctly placed.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:58Andy Greenwald?

  In the carousel. But if the circulation manager got on the couch, we're just saying.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Was Bill in, did Bill make a carousel?

• 32:04Andy Greenwald?

  No, but I thought, I thought Bill was just doing a drive-by.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Uh, he stayed a little longer than I think he thought he was going to, but that's just because, you know, his homies were there.

• 32:12Andy Greenwald?

  That's nice. His homies, Miles Caden and.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  And Chuck.

• 32:15Andy Greenwald?

  Chuck.

• 32:16Speaker 03

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• 34:16Chris Ryan?

  Let's do industry. Do you want to, let's talk a little bit of big picture here.

• 34:19Andy Greenwald?

  Let's do it.

• 34:20Chris Ryan?

  Among my favorite shows of the decade.

• 34:21Andy Greenwald?

  Absolutely.

• 34:22Chris Ryan?

  One of, I think, like the shows we've been most, if we could be proud of a show, I think we're proud of industry, right?

• 34:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Chris Ryan?

  Like this is something that we jumped on early on, like from the earliest days of its release. I was very curious about it and it, to see it not only find a bigger audience, but also to watch this, like the swagger it has now is like really something pretty awesome. Like it is.

• 34:47Andy Greenwald?

  And the response.

• 34:48Chris Ryan?

  I have nothing to do with it.

• 34:49Andy Greenwald?

  Rave reviews.

• 34:50Chris Ryan?

  Rave reviews.

• 34:51Andy Greenwald?

  Universal, not just acclaim, but universal coverage, which is not the case for season one, and we were, we were joking about that. And I would say that for as much as we've spent a lot of time talking over the last few weeks and months about how the pit, which also returned over the weekend, over the last few days, represents something that we love about television and we have always loved about television in terms of just like the reliable clockwork. Here's a setting, here's people you don't know yet, but you will fall in love with and you can sort of set your watch to it, but you give yourself over to it, that aspect of TV that we grew up with. The other part of TV that keeps me fascinated, keeps me affectionate, keeps me passionate, keeps me wanting to work in and around it, is the way that TV can grow and evolve.

• 35:32Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 35:32Andy Greenwald?

  Over time. And especially combined with, with opportunity, with good fortune, with good casting, with good taste and with a certain level, and in the case of Mickey Down and Conrad K, as we're about to talk about it, quite a bit of fearlessness. These things can evolve beyond anything we or maybe even the creators could imagine. And seeing that development over seasons is both exciting and rare in a time when fear still does kind of dominate in the executive suite where opportunities are fewer and where a lot of these streaming services either pull the plug early on stuff or cap things.

• 36:08Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 36:09Andy Greenwald?

  Two seasons, three seasons, stay in your lane, that kind of conversation with with a network. So that also feeds us.

• 36:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and I think also there's a boldness to the, honestly, like the, for lack of a better term, the geography of the show because a lot of TV shows, even if they go through reinventions, stay rooted in, you know, Oz stays in the prison until the prison is no more and Justified more or less bangs around the hollers and, you know, long running shows that like are essentially like maybe have good seasons, bad seasons, up seasons, down seasons, or are relentlessly creative, still kind of keep to a baseline of experiences that you can have in the show. Now, there's consistency in industry in terms of the way people talk and what they're talking about and maybe

• 37:01Chris Ryan?

  even the Nathan McKay soundtrack, although I think that they have like obviously started to invest more in needle drops as the years have gone on. But the thing that really struck me about this one, and you know, the creators have talked about it being kind of a soft reboot for the show or the idea of like, you know, basically refueling the plane midair, you know, is how I never know where the next scene is going to be. And that is still a sensation that I think is thrilling. Like now, it might be, it takes away a little bit of like the quote unquote reliability factor of television because you're just like, okay, now we're gonna go to this place. It's like, they're always, in Mad Men, they're gonna go back to the office at some point. There is no office in

• 37:45Chris Ryan?

  industry anymore. Now, they may start one and there may be a pure point, you know, in Namal and everything but name.

• 37:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 37:53Chris Ryan?

  But I think the thing that-

• 37:55Andy Greenwald?

  Like Sterling Cooper, Draper Price.

• 37:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, the thing that excites me about the show is moments like Rishi's corporate espionage gig or political espionage gig that he's doing for Harper and he shows up in a bar that looked a lot like the Devonshire, but I don't think was, and is sort of, kind of haunting the- The sort of outer edges of a wake that's happening there. Um, and steals a guy's phone to get some political information to supply Harper so that she can short this company. We'll get into all of that. Just even going to that bar, like most TV shows would not scout a new place, find a existing bar. I do not think they built that on a set and go shoot there with a ton of

• 38:38Chris Ryan?

  extras to give you a sense of like London as a living, breathing place where shit like this is happening on a Wednesday or a Thursday. That's so exciting. Like that's a quality that this show has that I can't think of another current show that has that right now.

• 38:53Andy Greenwald?

  The Rishi scene may have been my favorite in the episode. And before we get into the specifics, I just want to follow up on what you said, which was creators have talked about it as a soft reboot. This is a hard reboot.

• 39:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:03Andy Greenwald?

  I was trying to think of any other shows, contemporary or not, that have attempted to kind of speed race a completely new protagonist and a completely new status quo concurrently in a season premiere. Um, like for example, with Mad Men, the show would evolve and the firm changed, but the principles stayed the same.

• 39:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Andy Greenwald?

  The trappings and the circumstance changed.

• 39:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Andy Greenwald?

  Um, when we would talk about, you know, shows that really, um, not just revolutionize uh, transformation and evolution within serialized narratives, but shows that really set the template, um, The Wire, for example.

• 39:41Chris Ryan?

  Season two.

• 39:42Andy Greenwald?

  Each season in a way, but season two certainly more than any other. But the one thing that The Wire did was it was expanding the aperture of its view of the city.

• 39:51Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:51Andy Greenwald?

  So the police department was the police department, but there were different nodes connecting it now to City Hall or to the docks or to the school system. And they would fold them in until they were all existing concurrently. Like McNulty, again, his circumstances and his sobriety changed, but he was still, he was still a Baltimore police, as they say.

• 40:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Andy Greenwald?

  This show is not doing that. And the degree of difficulty for this premiere cannot be overstated. And I think any hesitation I have in giving it a full-throated five-star review, because again, I've only seen one, is mostly because I'm dazzled at the audacity of it.

• 40:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:26Andy Greenwald?

  And trying to keep up with the changes. There is no, and I feel like this is relevant to the characters in Industry, there is no safe word for this show. There really isn't a home base to return to, to make the audience, and I will admit, this is a kind of a basic asset on the couch kind of take here. Oh, OK, well, we're in a place I've been before. And I've seen it, and I know what the stakes are here. They're not giving us that, which I commend, but takes a second. Especially when we are giving so much screen time to so much new, so many new players, so many, so much new content, and so many new levels of interaction. Can you think of anything that has attempted this, or that it made you feel like? And I don't mean to put you on the spot, because I thought about it all weekend.

• 41:09Chris Ryan?

  No, I mean, I think that The Wire season two would be the closest thing I can think of. In terms of the season starts, I can't remember in my mind whether I knew that that was coming or not. I don't remember, like, The Wire.

• 41:23Andy Greenwald?

  The infrastructure, the ecosystem was different.

• 41:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it wasn't like they were doing tons of short-form video to be like, just so you know, this is what's gonna happen. You know, it was like, if I remember correctly, it started, and I was like, so where's Omar? You know, like, I think if you were watching this, you might be like, where's Henry Muck? Where's, where's Eric? You know, like, you might be looking for people that you've become close to. You might be like, where's Rob?

• 41:49Andy Greenwald?

  Or you understand, and again, like, we have weeks to talk about this and unpack it and see where it goes. I think one of the, one of the things that made Industry season three not just the best season of the show thus far, but like, I think it was our number one, the year that it, our number one TV show of the year, the year that it aired, was because Mickey and Conrad understood in their bones the rhythms of the show they'd created and that this had reached its endpoint. That there was nowhere else to go with this structure of PeerPoint and everything that it entailed. So, all in on that. But it is worth noting that like, one of the things that PeerPoint provided was a structure for the viewer to understand, oh, the characters are out doing drugs and boning each other until dawn.

• 42:34Andy Greenwald?

  That will have an impact on their workday. Thus, when I see them at work, I carry that context. So I understand the stakes of all their decision-making. Now that Harper is still, you know, a complete chaos agent and heliocentric ball-stopper, I would say, in terms of financial flow and also information flow, but she's the boss, but that she's not quite the boss yet. Again, the episode had to remind us of that. Okay, well, she can behave this way in this context, but Hugo Masanis still at least believes that he's pulling her strings, thus the Eric thing. I'm not saying the premiere didn't give us the context, I'm saying we're starting from scratch.

• 43:12Chris Ryan?

  It just also moved incredibly quickly and it had a lot of moments that, like, for instance, the opening sequence of the show features Charlie Heaton, who people probably recognize from Stranger Things, playing a financial journalist who, when the show starts-

• 43:26Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I haven't been a journalist in a while, but his behavior tracked with how I remember being a journalist.

• 43:30Chris Ryan?

  But when the show starts, he is essentially stalking Kiran and Shipka's Hailey character as she goes out through like a night out, starting at a wine bar, going to a nightclub. He hooks up with her-

• 43:40Andy Greenwald?

  This tracks with my experience in London, too. Every austere wine bar with a beautifully steamed piece of hake ends with an all-night nightclub where they exclusively play New Order remixes.

• 43:50Chris Ryan?

  That's right. I mean, boy can dream. And then, the next morning, he reveals that he is in fact a journalist and that he is looking into-

• 44:00Chris Ryan?

  Kiran Shipkis' character's boss's behavior.

• 44:04Andy Greenwald?

  In his defense, he made her coffee too. So let's not act like he.

• 44:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they cut away. We don't know exactly what happened. You know, he could have just been like.

• 44:10Andy Greenwald?

  She woke up fully clothed.

• 44:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's like, why don't we just catch up on Landman?

• 44:13Andy Greenwald?

  Let's cuddle. And watch Landman.

• 44:18Chris Ryan?

  Their Eagles highlights are on. You want to check that out?

• 44:22Chris Ryan?

  Her boss is played by Max Minghala, who is a co-leader of a company called Tender, which is currently at the start of the show is basically like a Stripe or PayPal for porn sites.

• 44:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Chris Ryan?

  And they are working for their primary client or one of their primary clients is this company, Siren, which is like an OnlyFans-esque kind of user-generated content place.

• 44:51Andy Greenwald?

  And that is ascendant. It's like, it's like starting to devour the marketplace.

• 44:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And concurrent with that, the British government is starting to get into online safety acts, mentions Siren by name. There's in the House of Commons where they're talking about bringing a bill or making some new laws that would restrict the sort of access people have to this or whether or not it's even legal at all to do it. So that dovetails quite nicely with Whitney, Max Minghala's character, who is looking to diversify what Tender does and wants it to not only be like that. He doesn't want them to just be money launderers for porn companies. He wants them to be like a 21st century financial institution.

• 45:33Andy Greenwald?

  Like a post-bank bank, nimble for the world that is no longer.

• 45:37Chris Ryan?

  And he's been going to.

• 45:38Andy Greenwald?

  The words of the show, they don't want to be the PayPal of Bukkake anymore.

• 45:40Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And he's been going to Africa every couple of weeks to expand the footprint of the company. Meanwhile, Kal Penn, who plays a guy named Jay, I believe, right? Jonah? What's his name?

• 45:52Andy Greenwald?

  You're the one that takes the notes.

• 45:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, I'm just, I'm just vibing. I mean.

• 45:54Andy Greenwald?

  This is me.

• 45:55Chris Ryan?

  He plays Aterbury, I think is his name, his character's name, his last name. He just wants to fucking party and hook up with girls and vape in the office. And he's like, we've, we've iterated enough. This is an awesome life. We're rich.

• 46:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we have zip ups, quarter zips with our name on it, our company's name on it.

• 46:16Chris Ryan?

  And so there's that tension. Now, that takes up half the episode. Half the episode is about new characters, new companies, new ideas.

• 46:25Andy Greenwald?

  You're right, his name is Jay, by the way.

• 46:27Chris Ryan?

  Great. And we're being asked to understand a lot about English government, English laws, financial institutions that we've not familiar with, financial journalists investigating those financial institutions. All the while, in the sort of side is Harper, who is running like a new shop under-

• 46:47Andy Greenwald?

  Mostyn Asset Management.

• 46:49Chris Ryan?

  The umbrella of Otto Mostyn, who is the sort of like lord from the third season, who recognizes in Harper, a kindred kind of outlaw spirit. And he has set her up with her own shop underneath his kind of investment bank, or whatever he's got going on. And her job is to essentially find companies to short. But what happens is she starts wanting to short companies that are run by friends of Otto. And they have a big showdown. They sever their relationship. And by the end of the episode, Harper has talked Eric into coming back from the Hamptons, it looks like.

• 47:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, or Jersey. Cause he's-

• 47:34Chris Ryan?

  Oh, he's at a Trump course, right?

• 47:35Andy Greenwald?

  He's playing, I mean, I can't believe, I mean, first of all, kudos to Mickey and Conrad. They got, they got a 45, I'm sorry, 45, 47 cameo.

• 47:44Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 47:45Andy Greenwald?

  Huge. Can't believe the show's not moving to CBS. But he's on a golf course.

• 47:50Chris Ryan?

  Yes, yeah.

• 47:51Andy Greenwald?

  And he's not satisfied.

• 47:54Chris Ryan?

  Trump or Eric?

• 47:56Andy Greenwald?

  Both, both are great men. Neither great man is really satisfied.

• 48:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Eric doesn't like heaven. He's retired, he's playing golf, they go to get stakes and have sex with young ladies. And he's just like, the action is the juice. I gotta get back to work. So he goes back to England, he hooks back up with Harper, they're gonna start a new shop. And I think that what we're gonna get, based on this first episode, is seeing characters see how far they can push things. Cause I think, to me, this episode was about ethics, or the abandonment of ethics.

• 48:30Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 48:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, to some extent. What did you think of it?

• 48:34Andy Greenwald?

  Where do you stand on on ethics?

• 48:36Chris Ryan?

  Well, I think we're watching them.

• 48:39Andy Greenwald?

  Erode?

• 48:39Chris Ryan?

  Go away. Yeah, I think we're watching the the slow degradation of the idea of like an internal moral compass. And it's because of the elevation of industries like finance. Because they're like, look, the only thing that matters is like your margin of victory. So you could say, oh, it's always been like this. It was just dressed up like guys like Otto. But what is the moral compass of the people who are making these decisions? Who are going after stories? Who are going into Africa to promote financial institutions? Like, what is what is guiding them? Aside from power and victory and and wealth?

• 49:19Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, I think fundamentally, one of the reasons why the show is so successful is because it is one of the few entertainments of our era that is willing to run right at the emptiness that is at the core of basically everything we do.

• 49:30Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 49:30Andy Greenwald?

  And I don't just mean like that we have a job just talking about stuff twice a week because I love our job. And, you know, now that we are recognized by the Golden Globes, not us, but like the category, like hopefully we can continue to build, you know, equity. I don't know. But like, you know, to watch to watch football in America yesterday is not just to experience massive disappointment and embarrassment and shame. It's also to see that every commercial is either for drug medication or AI.

• 49:59Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 50:00Andy Greenwald?

  And the entire economy is just AI being propped up by ads and things like that.

• 50:05Chris Ryan?

  Wonder whether any other company in the world has any money.

• 50:07Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I mean.

• 50:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:08Andy Greenwald?

  And that the what Harper.

• 50:10Chris Ryan?

  We literally can't get a Nike ad.

• 50:12Andy Greenwald?

  No, and what Harper does and what all of the, you know, we're like, oh, we don't really understand financials. That's because the product that they do is FanDuel for corporations, right? It is all betting and hedging and shorting on the potential growth of things as opposed to, and I mean, I'm not, this is not me on a soapbox, but like, instead of actually. The company making something or doing something, right?

• 50:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, doesn't Whitney say something like that? He's like, we're just like taking things that people don't need and selling it to them.

• 50:44Andy Greenwald?

  A great speech about what capitalism is and what online stuff is and what the service they provide and how like, well, at least in these tough, you know, these uncertain economic times, like masturbation remains like a reliable

• 50:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:55Andy Greenwald?

  Engine of commerce.

• 50:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:57Andy Greenwald?

  And of interest. So what I like about the decoupling from the sort of, at this point, show the perform, the performance-based, like, old world security of a bank is that all of these people are degenerates. And they're doing the same things they were doing before under increasingly changed or compromised context. So I went from thinking that Rishi had also reached a natural end point with the extremity of his final scene in season three to realizing that he is maybe the ideal avatar for this kind of storytelling in season four. I thought that scene was phenomenal because the abilities that he has in the workplace

• 51:42Andy Greenwald?

  of Pure Point are in no way separate from the degeneracy of his life as a gambler. And now what is left to him as a career is a sort of bizarre amalgamation of both.

• 51:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, now he's just like a hired gun. And it's not even like that he's a hired gun to do the things that he was doing at Pure Point.

• 52:01Andy Greenwald?

  Although being risky is...

• 52:03Chris Ryan?

  Well, what Harper seems to have recognized in him is his ability to be multiple people at once.

• 52:09Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 52:09Chris Ryan?

  You know, and to live these secret lives and to keep plates spinning in the air. So it's not really his financial acumen that she's going after. It's his ability to walk into a wake and pretend like he belongs there and then steal a guy's phone and then replace it and then immediately give that information to Harper. Or maybe I can't remember. I guess he didn't replace it. I think he just straight up stole it.

• 52:31Andy Greenwald?

  He didn't, no, he brought the phone back.

• 52:33Chris Ryan?

  Oh, he did.

• 52:34Andy Greenwald?

  He, I don't know if he emailed it to himself and deleted the send. I don't know. He, Harper ended up with the

• 52:39Chris Ryan?

  Copy.

• 52:40Andy Greenwald?

  Speech.

• 52:40Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 52:40Andy Greenwald?

  That was going to be delivered in Parliament, but he put the guy's phone back in his bag. So he would find it later and he finished his gin and tonic. And then what about his day?

• 52:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about...

• 52:54Chris Ryan?

  The button pushing.

• 52:55Andy Greenwald?

  Also, just to say that sometimes the hardest things that season premieres have to do on ongoing shows is to walk back decisions that made that were very dramatically evocative in the previous season finale.

• 53:09Chris Ryan?

  So what would be one that you're talking about?

• 53:10Andy Greenwald?

  Bringing Eric back. And I thought this was done well.

• 53:13Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 53:14Andy Greenwald?

  I was going to commend that because I think the show, and I think you agree with this, it really does sing when Ken Long is back on the screen and particularly when he's paired with Mahala. And I get that for marketing purposes and maybe for the long arc of the show, it's always been about Yasmin and Harper.

• 53:31Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 53:31Andy Greenwald?

  But I think the Harper Eric dynamic is the beating heart of the show on a practical level. The Kyle Schwaber, if you will, I wanted for pivoting to baseball.

• 53:40Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 53:42Andy Greenwald?

  You know, he kind of makes the whole lineup work. So I liked the way he was brought back and I liked their new dynamic as potentially we see, we see each other.

• 53:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:51Andy Greenwald?

  Peers, but also I don't care. Get him back. And that is the nuts and bolts of TV that I often enjoy. I don't care that he could not have been exiled further. We need him back. Let's move on.

• 54:02Chris Ryan?

  And to the, to the point that we were talking about earlier about the reinvention, but also the, there was a safer version to do this show. And this show could have just stayed at Pier Point for five seasons. And season four could have been Harper has ascended to the top of Pier Point. Eric is now below her in the, you know, like the corporate pecking order. And they have, each have like emotional and real blackmail over each other in the game of Thrones that's going to happen within that, that like very specific physical context of we're on the trading floor, there's a C suite, but then they go out and get drinks and then they come back. Like there was a repetition happening.

• 54:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 54:38Chris Ryan?

  And now it is almost like much more run and gun. You know, I was going to call it guerrilla filmmaking, but they have obviously also the other major development over the course of the series is making Conrad becoming more assured filmmakers and imparting a lot of their cinematic influence onto the show.

• 54:57Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. So wait, put a pin in that because I do want to talk about that. I wondered, and I don't mean this to be under the category of concerned trolling, but it's just. Something that I'm watching is that this is a show that began, again, essentially is a completely different show with completely, I'm not saying Mickey and Conrad were overmatched, but they were green. And the premise of the show with the pilot promised, and we loved the pilot, was that these are, we're entering this financial institution at the lowest rung and seeing who is hungry enough, degenerate enough, driven enough, whatever, to ascend. And for as unconventional as a lot of the storytelling was in season one, you start at the low, at the bottom of the totem pole, looking up, that's conventional.

• 55:39Chris Ryan?

  Sure, that's Grey's Anatomy, it's the pit.

• 55:41Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. I'm curious about the show's internal, what's the thing, like when you're

• 55:50Chris Ryan?

  Gimbal?

• 55:50Andy Greenwald?

  The level, you know, in terms of where we are in relation to underdogs or overdogs. Because going into this episode, and again, in a consequence-free, amoral universe, which is the show is now very confidently steering through, maybe these are outdated terms. But I, everyone is an overdog right now on the show. Maybe with the exception of Kieran and Shipka's Haley character, who is literally an assistant. Everyone else is, we're at the highest level now. Harper's walking into these rooms as an equal.

• 56:22Chris Ryan?

  I'll push back on that.

• 56:23Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's fair. I think that she's still looked down upon for reasons that are cosmetic and racial and class and being an American and being an upstart, as Hugo says to her, or she says to Hugo, like, you hired me because of what I look like.

• 56:35Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 56:35Andy Greenwald?

  And my attitude. That's fair. And I overspo, I, that was, I went too far on that.

• 56:39Chris Ryan?

  Well, I would just say that I think it's representative of the Wild West feel that global finance has right now. You have these old storied institutions.

• 56:48Andy Greenwald?

  Right, no more experts.

• 56:48Chris Ryan?

  Goldman's and, and, you know, whatevers. A lot of them got washed out in 08 anyway. I mean, some of those great big banks, I don't mean great, like, I loved them, I just mean, like, the big, great banks.

• 56:58Andy Greenwald?

  Who are your bank guys? Laman?

• 57:00Chris Ryan?

  I was a Laman guy!

• 57:01Andy Greenwald?

  I kinda like Bear Stearns.

• 57:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, sorry, I gotta go back and watch Too Big to Fail to find. But I think about how many Household names did not exist five years ago now.

• 57:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 57:14Chris Ryan?

  You know, whether it's cryptocurrency stuff, or whether it's AI stuff, or whether it's just like, banks that get involved with the financing of the purchase of like European football clubs, or how much private equity is out there where you're just like, so why does Redbird own this like now?

• 57:30Andy Greenwald?

  Like, what about the, like, I was reading the, the Times today, and there was a comment about how David Ellison is seeking to become the most powerful executive in Hollywood history, thanks to the backing of his father, currently the fifth richest person in the world.

• 57:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 57:44Andy Greenwald?

  And David Ellison was born in 1983 and started Skydance when he was 23 to make a movie called Flyboys, because he was kinda into aerial tricks and was an amateur pilot.

• 57:54Chris Ryan?

  Same.

• 57:55Andy Greenwald?

  And now, I know, but look how your careers diverged. You're still a better hang, but...

• 58:00Chris Ryan?

  Well, we don't know. Dave could be an amazing hang. We, we, we have to do the, actually, like, David Ellison, come on the pod, man.

• 58:07Andy Greenwald?

  You want David Ellison to come on the pod?

• 58:10Chris Ryan?

  Okay, but no questions about the merger. Just, we're, it's all just like a, a hang thing, like, like, you know, like, it's just about, like, what are your, who are your guys?

• 58:18Andy Greenwald?

  Chris Ryan, the next anchor of the CBS Evening News. David Ellison, we salute you. You've made some bold choices, and we in America favor the bold.

• 58:28Chris Ryan?

  Would you watch CBS Evening News if I was the anchor?

• 58:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, because I would support you. We've established, there's a, and I was talking-

• 58:34Chris Ryan?

  But you, like, don't listen to the rewatchables. Like, would you watch me every night as I've reported the news?

• 58:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I also watch Landman for you every week, and you still have not seen a Miyazaki movie.

• 58:42Chris Ryan?

  I don't, I don't, don't blame me for Landman. You, you, you have free will.

• 58:46Andy Greenwald?

  You are on the hook for this episode.

• 58:47Chris Ryan?

  All right.

• 58:48Andy Greenwald?

  This episode that most represented your own personal opinions about woke in the workplace and what's happened on college campuses.

• 58:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Andy Greenwald?

  This is just CR code.

• 58:56Chris Ryan?

  I can tell you're chomping at the bit. Is there anything else you want to talk about?

• 58:58Andy Greenwald?

  Let's go back to what you said, because we're still on industry.

• 59:01Chris Ryan?

  The cinematic ambitions of the show.

• 59:03Andy Greenwald?

  It was very notable in the opening particularly, which began, just to bring it all the way back, you were talking about Charlie Heaton is investigating and he's following two unknown characters circling each other, dancing in the club. And it was interesting to think about the transformation as the season was beginning. Again, what I love about the show is that evolution over time. But one of the things that the show started with and what, it wasn't noisy. It was quite austere and minimalist. And also, the way Lena Dunham directed the pilot was a lot about the lines, the coldness of everything. Nathan McKay's score did a lot of work. And it was also before they discovered what Cigar Radio was

• 59:47Andy Greenwald?

  doing in the background as Rishi, and how the noise of that became kind of the tempo of the show. But just think about it visually, from something that did seem rather austere and minimalist and cold and modern, has started to turn, under their directorial guise, into something much more lush and sensual and Baroque almost. And it wasn't, what's the, what's the Albert Finney eating movie?

• 1:00:10Chris Ryan?

  Tom Jones?

• 1:00:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, it wasn't Tom Jones-esque like the season finale was last year. It wasn't the setting for that. But it was very visually different. And even the way the camera moved or didn't move in the Charlie Heaton, Kieran and Shipka like, table confrontation. I was like, okay, it's just a different show when visual style changes so much.

• 1:00:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And also, but like, it's obviously something that they're thinking about a lot. And I thought that, I thought that they did a really great job of like, giving each new location and each new setting, kind of a different visual language. Like, I thought Tender had a little-

• 1:00:45Andy Greenwald?

  They're so good at names.

• 1:00:46Chris Ryan?

  But it had a little bit more of like, on its axis, kind of like-

• 1:00:50Andy Greenwald?

  Because it's Canary Wharf, Doug.

• 1:00:51Chris Ryan?

  I know. But then, if, when it's at night, it's so much more like, the ecstasy's kicking in. And it's like, everything is so lush. And everything is kind of like, the one perfect spotlight hitting Kieran and Shipka as she's standing by the DJ booth. Because like, the music is promoting like, this almost like Fantasyland. Like, it's just very smart filmmaking. It's accomplished filmmaking. I think they have like, a long career ahead of them, once they stop doing industry. But they can obviously take industry and make it into the movie of their dreams anyway.

• 1:01:21Andy Greenwald?

  Did you feel like it was a little too close to home when there is the, you know, there's the dinner scene where lifelong friends who are about to have a frankly, a rather dramatic rupture, Jay and Whitney go to dinner.

• 1:01:35Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:01:35Andy Greenwald?

  In London and one of them is just like sticking, sticking to water and the other one like orders, let's say a second Murphy stout and the other, and one guy's, the other's like, I think you should be clear headed tomorrow because we have a podcast. Did that remind you of anything from the fall?

• 1:01:49Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it does remind me of your, your dalliance with NA. Don't know if you want to talk about it.

• 1:01:56Andy Greenwald?

  No, but you know, I was just, I was just wondering if that, that struck any chords.

• 1:02:00Chris Ryan?

  I feel like I have, I have that stuff pretty under control now.

• 1:02:03Andy Greenwald?

  You a hundred percent do.

• 1:02:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Andy Greenwald?

  That said, we do have a meeting afterwards that has just recently topped up on your calendar and I do think that you should sit down for it.

• 1:02:10Chris Ryan?

  Having two and a half beers.

• 1:02:12Andy Greenwald?

  Do you have any other thoughts on the, uh, the imports, the American imports of the show? Are we gonna?

• 1:02:18Chris Ryan?

  I think we can use that as a little bit of a time to talk about, um, watching new people learn how to speak Mickey and Conrad.

• 1:02:26Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:27Chris Ryan?

  So this is a, um, very sharp, very, I think probably like weighty show when it comes to the dialogue and it's like you're kind of almost saying things that feel like they could be written, but they are the perfect things to say, you know, like they, I imagine like everybody needs like a little bit of like lead time to get used to the dialogue. And I thought Max McHale was awesome at it, you know, um, and I thought, I thought everybody was actually quite good at it, you know, Cal Penn, I'll be curious to see where that character goes, like if they keep him around or if that's kind of a, hey, it's that guy I know, but he was only in one episode, you know?

• 1:03:03Andy Greenwald?

  He was the Kyle Chandler.

• 1:03:04Chris Ryan?

  Well, I didn't want to spoil.

• 1:03:06Andy Greenwald?

  I did say which show.

• 1:03:08Chris Ryan?

  How Friday Night Lights begins.

• 1:03:10Andy Greenwald?

  Could have been, uh, Homefront.

• 1:03:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Andy Greenwald?

  Could be Lanterns. I don't know.

• 1:03:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Um, and yeah, the newer characters, I was going to say the newer characters, yeah, I think the newer characters all sort of participate in some of the more, um,

• 1:03:25Chris Ryan?

  You know, oh my, oh my days moments of the show where it's like, we got a dildo coming out. Um, Kiran Shipka says some things I'm not going to repeat while on ecstasy.

• 1:03:35Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Chris Ryan?

  Um, about bubble gum.

• 1:03:37Andy Greenwald?

  She does.

• 1:03:38Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and then at the end.

• 1:03:40Andy Greenwald?

  It was about bubble gum, but bubble gum played in.

• 1:03:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it was used as sort of the visual imagery. And then at the end, we have the return of Kit Harrington as Henry Muck, who is crushing up pills to snort off of a harpsichord.

• 1:03:52Andy Greenwald?

  That he's not supposed to touch.

• 1:03:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I imagine that is just probably the way Henry Muck gets down.

• 1:03:58Andy Greenwald?

  That's pretty cool.

• 1:03:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Um, so, well, I can't wait for the next episode.

• 1:04:03Andy Greenwald?

  I think the best segue into talking about Landman.

• 1:04:07Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:04:08Andy Greenwald?

  Would be a quote from Industry 401. And I think this is, if you, if you've done timestamps, this is okay. I don't think it spoils anything. But I do think that there was one line that really presaged my interaction with this episode.

• 1:04:20Chris Ryan?

  Hold on, I'm just getting ready.

• 1:04:24Andy Greenwald?

  That woke shit no longer moves the needle in this new world.

• 1:04:27Chris Ryan?

  So, I, I am going to let you cook.

• 1:04:30Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, I think you should defend yourself.

• 1:04:34Chris Ryan?

  I don't have to defend anything. I've always been very, very clear that I do not agree with everything that, and I don't even know.

• 1:04:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Chris Ryan?

  Like, look, for, let me, let me rephrase this.

• 1:04:46Andy Greenwald?

  You always said that you frequent Daily Caller because you like to open yourself up to a wide range of ideas.

• 1:04:53Chris Ryan?

  Taylor Sheridan has a history of introducing characters to represent ideas in the culture wars that I think he is on the wrong side of, probably. And.

• 1:05:03Andy Greenwald?

  That probably doing a lot of work, God.

• 1:05:04Chris Ryan?

  So when the character of Pagan, the.

• 1:05:08Andy Greenwald?

  Talk about it. Let Kaya know what she's producing when she's not winning Golden Globes.

• 1:05:13Chris Ryan?

  Ainsley's non-binary roommate at TCU has come down from Minnesota, of all places.

• 1:05:18Andy Greenwald?

  Great timing.

• 1:05:19Chris Ryan?

  To be a sports medicine major at TCU.

• 1:05:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:05:24Chris Ryan?

  I don't know, like, we could look up if TCU has a heralded program, but

• 1:05:30Chris Ryan?

  I personally don't. Joel Anderson, an alumnus, an alumnus from TCU.

• 1:05:34Andy Greenwald?

  He could weigh in.

• 1:05:35Chris Ryan?

  I would love to hear if Joel's got any thoughts on the Horned Frogs.

• 1:05:38Andy Greenwald?

  Say more about Pagan.

• 1:05:40Chris Ryan?

  Pagan is, uh, is already all set up in the freshman dorms and they have a ferret. And they have a lot of restrictions about what Ainsley can and can't do in terms of making noise, having animal products, cooking.

• 1:05:54Andy Greenwald?

  Playing music, using pronouns.

• 1:05:56Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And so Ainsley then goes to-

• 1:06:00Andy Greenwald?

  Also, Pagan uses a reusable water bottle, which is just appalling.

• 1:06:06Chris Ryan?

  Don't you use a reusable water bottle?

• 1:06:08Andy Greenwald?

  Physician heel itself. Go on.

• 1:06:11Chris Ryan?

  So anyway, this is an opportunity for multiple characters in the show, well, really just Angela, um, and Ainsley to discuss people like Pagan and how they're, they're so unhappy about themselves that they take it out on other people by making them, you know, do gymnastics to figure out their pronouns and not play music in their, in their dorm rooms and stuff like that. Um, I will be, I, I'm legitimately curious to see if Pagan is in this 10th episode. And if there is any reason for this character's introduction, and frankly, way more time spent with Pagan and Ainsley's dorm roommate-

• 1:06:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:06:52Chris Ryan?

  -than Tommy's firing at the end of the episode and the collapse of his relationship with Candy.

• 1:06:58Andy Greenwald?

  Look, the, the Pagan interlude is appalling.

• 1:07:02Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:03Andy Greenwald?

  The way the episode is constructed, in which everything is given the same weight and nothing matters, is disqualifying.

• 1:07:13Andy Greenwald?

  This was a new level of dog shit in the history-

• 1:07:17Chris Ryan?

  I don't know why you're like, I wrote this and it's my fault that you're watching it.

• 1:07:20Andy Greenwald?

  I just, I didn't say you wrote it. I just think they probably send you drafts. And you could be like, go a little further on this. It's a little subtle.

• 1:07:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Andy Greenwald?

  I also think that it, Pagan gets all the headlines. But the things that occur around this character, such as Ainsley, who, as stated, is played by, I believe, a 39-year-old woman.

• 1:07:42Chris Ryan?

  She's not that old, but yeah.

• 1:07:44Andy Greenwald?

  Playing a 17-year-old.

• 1:07:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Andy Greenwald?

  Who is, uh, we are told in this episode, is not going to college, is going to stay in a dorm for one week of cheerleading camp. Why Pagan is there early, unclear.

• 1:07:57Chris Ryan?

  During cheerleading camp? I suppose to soothe whatever other camps are having, like she can, like...

• 1:08:03Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, the dorm is a safe space, so perhaps just wanted to kind of like, you know, put down, put down some...

• 1:08:10Chris Ryan?

  Roots.

• 1:08:10Andy Greenwald?

  Roots, yeah.

• 1:08:11Chris Ryan?

  Make the ferret comfortable.

• 1:08:12Andy Greenwald?

  Angela, who is meant to be an adult human, behaves the way parents behave when they take their three-year-old to preschool for the first time.

• 1:08:24Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 1:08:25Andy Greenwald?

  Complete and total emotional meltdown.

• 1:08:29Chris Ryan?

  I think at least Tommy is like, what are you crying about?

• 1:08:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, because...

• 1:08:32Chris Ryan?

  Ainsley's going to camp for two weeks or something, yeah.

• 1:08:34Andy Greenwald?

  Man up, woman, basically. The only thing that makes Angela feel better initially is for saying goodbye to her daughter for a week, is, uh, calling her personal concierge at Neiman Marcus to shop it out. And then, when Ainsley has a problem, swooping in like the fucking angel of death.

• 1:08:54Chris Ryan?

  And renting out like the solo house of Fort Worth, basically?

• 1:08:57Andy Greenwald?

  For margarita parties.

• 1:08:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Andy Greenwald?

  Um, she had a great scene with my old classmate Miriam Silverman, who I'd like to remind people, won a Tony. And the reward that this culture gives stars of the theater is the right to debate pronoun usage with Ally Larder.

• 1:09:14Chris Ryan?

  I thought Miriam was delightful in that scene, both with Ainsley and Angela.

• 1:09:16Andy Greenwald?

  She had the right sensibility for that.

• 1:09:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Andy Greenwald?

  Totally agree. But the other thing, and this, this, well, this goes into my larger point, which is, despite how I've led off, not necessarily even a culture war point, because frankly, we may have lost that one. As a man who's been reading about 1930s Germany, you gotta know when to fold them, okay? It's possible.

• 1:09:37Chris Ryan?

  We had a good run.

• 1:09:38Andy Greenwald?

  We did have a good run, having culture.

• 1:09:40Chris Ryan?

  Remember the 90s?

• 1:09:41Andy Greenwald?

  It was sick. Totally agree.

• 1:09:45Andy Greenwald?

  The absolute inconsistent idiocy of a show in which Ainsley is written purely as a bikini wearing vessel for an angry, isolated, wealthy 55 year old man to pour whatever opinion he has that week is just frankly gross and dumb. It's not the politics. It's that Ainsley is smart enough to say, oh, your name's pagan, like the godless religion.

• 1:10:10Chris Ryan?

  I saw a recap.

• 1:10:11Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, and then pagan is like, this is a ferret, a widely known animal. And Ainsley's like, what's that? And pagan goes, like a weasel. And Ainsley says, well, what's that? Make it make sense. When Tommy gives her advice.

• 1:10:25Chris Ryan?

  Stop pointing at me, I didn't write it.

• 1:10:27Andy Greenwald?

  You're on the hook for this.

• 1:10:28Chris Ryan?

  No, I'm not.

• 1:10:29Andy Greenwald?

  This was my Sunday and Kevin Patullo's not walking through that door.

• 1:10:32Chris Ryan?

  I told you to watch this on Thursday. I knew what was gonna happen on Sunday. I knew how it was gonna feel.

• 1:10:38Andy Greenwald?

  It makes for good radio.

• 1:10:41Andy Greenwald?

  Tommy says, make his not bad advice to a grown woman who is cosplaying as a child. Make good choices.

• 1:10:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Andy Greenwald?

  And to him, good choices is don't have a fifth margarita when you're out on the town and on camp- off campus. And Ainsley says, I don't drink margaritas, there's too much sugar.

• 1:10:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Andy Greenwald?

  We fast forward to mom coming to save the day with a pool party. And the game being played by Ainsley is margarita Marco Polo. So her abstinence policy lasted about as long as mine did in London. And it's just the inconsistency. So we talk about the impressive nature of the Taylor Sheridan industrial complex that like, wow, like hate him or love him, this man generates a lot of television.

• 1:11:25Chris Ryan?

  Thanks for saying we.

• 1:11:27Andy Greenwald?

  But there is, the most charitable version of criticism for this show is that there's actually a reason why very, very, very few people attempt this and almost no one successfully pulls this off. The act of solo writing an ongoing dramatic series. If you're Mike White and you're telling one story per season.

• 1:11:48Chris Ryan?

  One story every couple of years.

• 1:11:49Andy Greenwald?

  Sure. Or Brad Inglesby with a task like, these guys work alone and they do good work.

• 1:11:57Andy Greenwald?

  The reason you don't do it for an ongoing series is because an ongoing series demands a multiplicity of points of view and perspective and maybe voices being like, "You might want to run that through the filter a couple more times to make it make sense, or make it be funny, or make it be entertaining, or make it fucking have a point." Aaron Sorkin pulled off the solo practitioner act and he was, had a debilitating crack addiction when he did it. Okay? I don't know what Taylor Sheridan's excuse is. You need a human perspective, not just to make the pagan character work as anything other than as a strong, non-binary. We're not saying strong men anymore in this world.

• 1:12:40Andy Greenwald?

  It's that for a character like Ariana, who exists on the show and is well-played and, you know, is, in many ways, we've pointed to that relationship with Cooper as like, that's kind of the heart of the show.

• 1:12:51Chris Ryan?

  I thought so, yes.

• 1:12:52Andy Greenwald?

  And maybe what the show should have been.

• 1:12:54Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:12:55Andy Greenwald?

  But having a second person in the room, maybe even a second female person in the room, pronouns TBD, could say, "There's probably more meat on the bone of this character than she could get engaged, or she could get sexually assaulted, and there's nothing else for her to do."

• 1:13:12Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:13:13Andy Greenwald?

  It's just lame. It's despicable and it's gross.

• 1:13:16Chris Ryan?

  I agree.

• 1:13:17Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you.

• 1:13:17Chris Ryan?

  I agree.

• 1:13:18Andy Greenwald?

  I won. This is like that show on the internet where like Mehdi Hassan is like surrounded by 30 MAGA people.

• 1:13:25Chris Ryan?

  But nobody's arguing with you.

• 1:13:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but I, both of us won.

• 1:13:28Chris Ryan?

  This was a disappointment. I read an interview with Jacob Loughlin in The Hollywood Reporter. He was obviously very happy to be part of the show, so don't want to misconstrue what he was saying. But he was talking about how this season, the first season that they got all the scripts, they saw where their arcs were going.

• 1:13:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Chris Ryan?

  And they shot them in whatever order they shot them, but they understood the entirety of the story. And that this season, they would shoot things. Sometimes... They would shoot episode six and then they would shoot episode three and it feels like that.

• 1:14:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:01Chris Ryan?

  I think he was saying like, isn't it crazy that Taylor's just generating all this stuff? But this feels like something that was written out of order. And that there are scenes that are kind of like mildly trying to correct for certain things like earlier in this season or even just ignoring them, you know, like even. I honestly like the more compelling thing is the idea of like, we were talking about reinventions like.

• 1:14:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Chris Ryan?

  Making Tommy poor or making Tommy into some kind of like. Giving him a new challenge rather than every week I just solve the biggest problem in Texas and then go home to my crazy wife. You know, now it could be like an interesting like obstacle. Now I don't necessarily think you're going to be there for season three to find out. But this was, you know, the pagan stuff was reminiscent of things that have happened in Lioness. Where Dave Anabel's character has spirited debates.

• 1:14:54Chris Ryan?

  With his teenage daughter. It also reminded me of the Piper Parabo character from Yellowstone, who is a climate change activist.

• 1:15:02Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:15:04Chris Ryan?

  You know, I think Taylor likes to to get some characters in there and just throw some ideas around, you know? This season just feels like a little bit. Like undercooked, like or that like to your point, like there was a deadline. There is like writing going on, there's filming going on, but even the performances don't feel geolocated to. The point they are in the season. Can't why, why has Cammy been rolling around on the ground screaming all year? Or getting into financial relationships with the cartel against the advice of Tommy like. There is a certain like kind of recklessness to the character arcs or an aimlessness that I think you're also right to point out.

• 1:15:48Andy Greenwald?

  What is this season about? What is the story of this season?

• 1:15:55Chris Ryan?

  I mean, you want me really to answer that?

• 1:15:57Andy Greenwald?

  Well, sure.

• 1:15:58Chris Ryan?

  My answer to that would be actually one that I am a little less interested in, which is the mortality, like mortality. That the reason why they brought Sam Elliott in, the reason why they have been confronted with like multiple workplace deaths, and the reason why that guy's whole like, I made my 20 years, I get the watch thing. It's like the idea that this industry just like grinds you up and spits you out. That's like my-

• 1:16:22Andy Greenwald?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:16:23Chris Ryan?

  Most generous read of like what's been happening.

• 1:16:25Andy Greenwald?

  I would like to reiterate, just in case, you know, if parts are clipped or not clipped, I would just like to say that this entire exercise of this television show this season has been despicable.

• 1:16:35Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:16:36Andy Greenwald?

  That said, what is most frustrating is-

• 1:16:39Chris Ryan?

  But you know what?

• 1:16:39Andy Greenwald?

  Wait, let me finish.

• 1:16:40Chris Ryan?

  Okay, alright.

• 1:16:41Andy Greenwald?

  Every so often, a decent, no, compelling idea wanders across the screen, like when Fred Armisen would play former Governor David Patterson of New York. That idea that you just talked about, that was in that scene where Boss gets his watch, is compelling. The one good episode this season, I think was the funeral episode, actually had some pathos to it.

• 1:17:05Chris Ryan?

  Yes, it was quite good.

• 1:17:06Andy Greenwald?

  The rest of it-

• 1:17:07Chris Ryan?

  It was also indicative of like, getting, making all of those people be together anywhere else other than the kitchen at Tommy and Angela's house, where seemingly nine people live now.

• 1:17:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, and the fact that the great Sam Elliott, who looks great, by the way, and does not look near death-

• 1:17:26Chris Ryan?

  Sam Elliott looks better than I do, with his shirt off, straight up.

• 1:17:31Andy Greenwald?

  The fact, though, that he's being asked to play someone who is on death's door and playing the same seated note of resignation and regret for eight straight episodes.

• 1:17:41Chris Ryan?

  Until Cheyenne came along.

• 1:17:42Andy Greenwald?

  Until a unlicensed physical therapist exotic dancer swims laps in front of him, and instead of just letting that scene, which is entirely unnecessary to the plot of the season, just play out and be what it is-

• 1:17:56Chris Ryan?

  But there's no such thing as unnecessary to the plot of the season, because nothing matters, yeah.

• 1:18:00Andy Greenwald?

  So maybe it is the perfect show for our time. But the fact that even within a just sort of nonsense spew of what life is or isn't, there has to be just a little parenthetical for Taylor's sake, where the 20-year-old dancer says to the 80-year-old, "I definitely have sex with you, except the numbers just were a little bit different." And he's like, "Cool."

• 1:18:21Andy Greenwald?

  I would have sex with you too. And everyone, they look at each other like, okay, we get it.

• 1:18:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Andy Greenwald?

  We get it.

• 1:18:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:26Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe that's the world that Taylor wants for us, where people are honest about their sexual prospects.

• 1:18:31Chris Ryan?

  If we're talking about being honest, I just want to say this.

• 1:18:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Chris Ryan?

  We have watched lots of TV over the last couple of years.

• 1:18:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36Chris Ryan?

  There's been plenty that you would probably say is better than Landman that you give up on midway through. And somehow, some reason, you have been coming back.

• 1:18:45Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:45Chris Ryan?

  For more to the trough every week, drilling away to see if you strike a.

• 1:18:50Andy Greenwald?

  I am not immune to the culture that we exist.

• 1:18:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:54Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. I'm aware of the first-takification of sports. I'm okay dabbling a little bit now that we're, you know, we're, we're video stars.

• 1:19:02Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:03Andy Greenwald?

  Some of us more than others. So I was willing to engage in that kind of conversation. But, you know, if there's one thing that an 800-page book about the sweep of modern German history has taught me,

• 1:19:16Andy Greenwald?

  it's that maybe it's time to call it.

• 1:19:19Chris Ryan?

  We've got one more. I need you for one more. We gotta find out how it ends.

• 1:19:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's, but I mean, it's been renewed. I, I.

• 1:19:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, here's what I would like. I would like the, you know, like the, the workplace drama I am most interested in right now is the executive suite at Peacock watching the season play out, thinking about the next five years of their life.

• 1:19:42Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I would, uh, here's one version of that, which is, this is great. He's obviously not worried about these shows.

• 1:19:49Andy Greenwald?

  That is smart. He's shorting his own shows and he's about to make a bigger split. Oh, he's saving all the good ideas.

• 1:19:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:57Andy Greenwald?

  Just so we have it on the record, when you said.

• 1:20:00Chris Ryan?

  That would be amazing if he was like, I'm detonating this.

• 1:20:04Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Chris Ryan?

  So that like, they don't even want it.

• 1:20:07Andy Greenwald?

  So Sicario, the series premieres on Peacock in 2028.

• 1:20:11Chris Ryan?

  Don't tempt me with a good time.

• 1:20:12Andy Greenwald?

  I know. I'm saying, I also want to be clear. I just want to have this on the record since we are on camera right now.

• 1:20:19Andy Greenwald?

  When you say that you don't expect me back for the next season of Landman, do you already have a new co-host in mind?

• 1:20:26Chris Ryan?

  It's Sam Elliott.

• 1:20:27Andy Greenwald?

  Shirtless.

• 1:20:28Chris Ryan?

  And Cheyenne.

• 1:20:30Andy Greenwald?

  Guys, first of all, you both look great. Any updates in your relationship status?

• 1:20:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Andy Greenwald?

  Terrific.

• 1:20:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Andy Greenwald?

  Terrific. Well, let's see Amy Poehler do that, Kaya. I mean, I really brought it home.

• 1:20:44Chris Ryan?

  I, I, I think that your, your criticisms are all really valid.

• 1:20:47Andy Greenwald?

  I think your criticisms are valid too. What were they?

• 1:20:53Andy Greenwald?

  Was it more about like roommate assignments? Like maybe it shouldn't work. Thought or care should have been put into that?

• 1:20:58Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Golden Globe winning producer Kai McMullin. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks to Andy Greenwald for always shooting from the hip. You know?

• 1:21:06Andy Greenwald?

  Can't help it.

• 1:21:06Chris Ryan?

  They can't tell you, they can't say that you're bought and paid for.

• 1:21:09Andy Greenwald?

  They will. But the evidence suggests otherwise. They will.

• 1:21:13Chris Ryan?

  We'll be back on Thursday to talk a little bit of Pitt. Let me see, actually, hold on a second.

• 1:21:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Chris Ryan?

  Is there anything other than the pick coming out?

• 1:21:21Andy Greenwald?

  I think it might be Ponies o'clock.

• 1:21:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh geez. Yeah. It's hijacking Ponies.

• 1:21:26Andy Greenwald?

  This week. And Wednesday night of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 1:21:29Chris Ryan?

  Uh, that is next week.

• 1:21:32Andy Greenwald?

  Tell the people. Some of us have already watched Ponies. I'm good. I do the homework. Once.

• 1:21:39Chris Ryan?

  Amazing performance by you today. It's really a throwback.

• 1:21:43Andy Greenwald?

  I've got nothing left to lose.

• 1:21:46Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Andy for everything he does for this show.

• 1:21:49Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, so we're keeping the part where you open your computer and say, oh, whoops.

• 1:21:52Chris Ryan?

  I think it's fine. It's the end of the pod. Nobody cares, right?

• 1:21:54Andy Greenwald?

  This is when the real heads tune in.

• 1:21:56Chris Ryan?

  Do you want to actually do five minutes after dark right now about the Eagles? Or is she having you on the Ringer Philly special?

• 1:22:04Andy Greenwald?

  I already recorded.

• 1:22:05Chris Ryan?

  Did you?

• 1:22:06Andy Greenwald?

  No. You want to talk about the Eagles?

• 1:22:08Chris Ryan?

  Do you want to talk about the Eagles?

• 1:22:09Andy Greenwald?

  What's your take?

• 1:22:11Chris Ryan?

  Uh, that for as much as I love them as an institution and for as much as I have historically enjoyed cheering for this iteration of the team.

• 1:22:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Chris Ryan?

  This was a miserable fucking experience for the last couple of months and I'm, I'm not happy that it's over and I'm not happy that the Eagles lost to the Niners, but I'm glad I do not have to watch 19 points a game again.

• 1:22:35Andy Greenwald?

  No, this was a joyless slog.

• 1:22:38Chris Ryan?

  I love the defense. I love men who are on the offense.

• 1:22:41Andy Greenwald?

  They do.

• 1:22:42Chris Ryan?

  But I did not enjoy how those men came together and worked together.

• 1:22:46Andy Greenwald?

  Nor did I like the week to week gaslighting of, we have to do a little bit of better job of communicating and do a little bit better in those situations and we're just ready to, you know, once we get on the same page.

• 1:22:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm kind of glad like the press conferences are over. I'm glad it's Howie season. Let that man cook. And, uh, yeah, I, I, I'm curious to see what happens with the offensive coordinator job.

• 1:23:08Andy Greenwald?

  Who you got?

• 1:23:09Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I, you know me, I'm a mad scientist. I love Mike McDee. I would love Cliff.

• 1:23:14Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm just a vibes guy. So the fact that Vic Fangio just walked out of Miami rather than work for Mike McDaniel, the idea of them both being at the Novocare complex is very fun.

• 1:23:25Chris Ryan?

  Team of rivals, right? Worked for Lincoln.

• 1:23:27Andy Greenwald?

  And who among us is more like Abraham Lincoln than Nicholas Siriani? Just a man of great vision, of temperate spirit. It's really beautiful. I've been watching.

• 1:23:39Chris Ryan?

  No, no, no!

• 1:23:40Andy Greenwald?

  I've not watched as many Ken Burns documentaries as you. Yeah, I just,

• 1:23:46Andy Greenwald?

  I am at peace. We won the Super Bowl. That's awesome. If we had not won the Super Bowl last year and this was the follow-up.

• 1:23:51Chris Ryan?

  I have to tell you something. You're not at peace.

• 1:23:54Andy Greenwald?

  Compared to what I could have been?

• 1:23:57Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 1:23:59Andy Greenwald?

  Do you feel that, do you think that this was a classic, uh, post-game podcast for me in terms of like, do you think my energy matched?

• 1:24:07Chris Ryan?

  I, I do wonder what your Landman takes would have been if you would watch Landman earlier in the week.

• 1:24:13Andy Greenwald?

  I would have been like, Ainsley makes some good points. She's just trying to have a good time.

• 1:24:20Andy Greenwald?

  And Pagan's kind of a buzzkill.

• 1:24:23Andy Greenwald?

  That's probably true. Uh, I just, I, I spend a lot more time, like when, when, when we text, you know, I think it's unsurprising. Like our, our friend Zach is really, he's in the X's and O's. He's, he's crushing the all 22. He has a lot of points of view about under center play action, how it could be deployed.

• 1:24:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:42Andy Greenwald?

  And I'm like, Fred Johnson and Jordan Davis seem like beautiful men. I enjoy when they play fun games on Instagram for the social media team and I want them to be happy.

• 1:24:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:53Andy Greenwald?

  And the team let them down, especially Jordan Davis.

• 1:24:57Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:24:57Andy Greenwald?

  And N'Kobe Dean.

• 1:24:58Chris Ryan?

  We have to find out who's do, who's responsible for this. That's your, that's your vibe.

• 1:25:03Andy Greenwald?

  Like Tim Robinson in the hot dog suit? Who's responsible for the way I feel?

• 1:25:09Andy Greenwald?

  Kevin Petullo. And Nicholas. Honest Abe. Sirianni, and I am. This is, this has never happened in my modern sports fandom where I am actually so eager for next weekend. I actually was like, it would seem so nice to have a psychologically uncomplicated weekend in my future. But it's frustrating because this whole thing was wide open. And if they had just been able to actually have a semi decent offense, I think we could.

• 1:25:36Chris Ryan?

  Well, this is your opportunity to become a Trangialino, get behind the Rams.

• 1:25:41Andy Greenwald?

  And is that where you're at?

• 1:25:42Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:25:43Andy Greenwald?

  Who you got?

• 1:25:44Chris Ryan?

  I think the Bears.

• 1:25:46Andy Greenwald?

  You like, you like our new villain Ben Johnson?

• 1:25:49Chris Ryan?

  I just, that's, it's football, man. It's not the United Nations. Like, I don't understand. Why are people scandalized that he was like, fuck the Packers? Like, same. I don't have nothing against the Packers. I'm just like, it's football.

• 1:26:00Andy Greenwald?

  Do you feel like?

• 1:26:00Chris Ryan?

  It's supposed to be like that.

• 1:26:01Andy Greenwald?

  Do we have to adopt a horse in the NFC?

• 1:26:04Chris Ryan?

  Uh, no, I mean, I guess, I, I do not like the Broncos. I, I guess I kind of like the Seahawks and I, I I want me to be happy.

• 1:26:12Andy Greenwald?

  That's NFC. I, I, I will.

• 1:26:16Andy Greenwald?

  I feel like it is incumbent upon us now that we have actually had sustained success and we are not perpetual underdogs. I feel like Buffalo.

• 1:26:24Chris Ryan?

  They deserve it.

• 1:26:25Andy Greenwald?

  I want Buffalo to win. I do. That's a, that's a town that.

• 1:26:28Chris Ryan?

  You've always been a Kathy Hochul guy.

• 1:26:30Andy Greenwald?

  Look what she could, look what she did in nine days when she had a little pep in her step. Thanks to Gracie Mansion, new energy.

• 1:26:36Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:26:39Andy Greenwald?

  Did you mention Kathy Hochul because I mentioned former governor David Patterson? And you wanted to prove your bona fides? As an upstate guy?

• 1:26:46Chris Ryan?

  Do you, do you call it bona fides or bona fides?

• 1:26:48Andy Greenwald?

  I say bona fide.

• 1:26:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I say that too.

• 1:26:50Andy Greenwald?

  Do you say niche or niche?

• 1:26:52Chris Ryan?

  Niche.

• 1:26:52Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 1:26:53Chris Ryan?

  What do you say?

• 1:26:54Andy Greenwald?

  I kind of read the room.

• 1:26:57Chris Ryan?

  Niche or niche?

• 1:26:59Speaker 06

  Niche.

• 1:27:00Chris Ryan?

  All right, we can wrap it up.

• 1:27:01Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:27:01Andy Greenwald?

  That's how we wrap it up.

• 1:27:03Chris Ryan?

  If we're nothing, if not niche.

• 1:27:06Andy Greenwald?

  Great podcast. It's one of my favorites. My last one was, was memorable.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

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