Pod Insights The Vergecast Net neutrality, Final Fantasy, Gilmore Girls, and the Spectacles line About this episode Welcome to Vergecast Lonely Paul edition. Dieter and Nilay are out this week, so Paul enlisted some of his colleagues who would never let him down like that and made his own Vergecast that's centered around talking to people not named Dieter or Nilay. Want to learn what AT&T's new DirecTV Now service has to do with net neutrality? Want to figure out why nearly all women and nearly everybody actually loves Gilmore Girls? Want to know if video games are good sometimes? Want to experience what it would be like to stand in line for Snapchat Spectacles but not actually purchase Spectacles because you hate lines? Then you'll probably love what we've done here.
2:39 – Interview with T. C. Sottek on net neutrality
33:24 – Interview with Kaitlyn Tiffany on Gilmore Girls: A Year in the Life
52:38 – Interview with Andrew Webster on Pokemon Sun and Moon and Final Fantasy XV
1:06:30 – Interview with Ashley Carman live at the Snapchat Spectacles line in NYC
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Transcript 15,371 words · 7 speakers
0:03 Speaker 00 Hello.
0:06 Speaker 00 I'm all alone. This is the Vergecast. It's a very special edition because I'm all by myself. My name is Paul Miller. There's no Neelai Patel. There's no Dieter Bohn. It's just me. They are at like a cool work thing. They didn't invite me, probably learning about leadership or something. So I'm doing the Vergecast and I thought I would, oh, by the way, this is a flagship podcast, theverge.com, brought to you by Scissor Vodka, Cut Through the Night. There you go. I thought I'd talk to a few people at The Verge that aren't always on the show, that do really cool stuff that's really core to our coverage. So here's what's gonna happen.
0:47 Speaker 00 I'm gonna talk to TC Sotek, who is our managing editor and also knows a ton about policy and government and politics. And we're gonna talk about net neutrality and just a little warning, it's probably gonna get a little heated. Next, I'm gonna talk to Caitlin Tiffany, who is one of our social editors at The Verge, but also covers a lot of internet culture and just straight culture, culture stuff. And she reviewed Gilmore Girls and I really want you to go into that with an open mind, even if you're not a big fan of Gilmore Girls. I think it's important to understand why it matters so much to so many people. And then I'm gonna talk to Andrew Webster, who is our games reviewer at The Verge,
1:32 Speaker 00 or one of our games reviewers at The Verge. He reviewed Pokemon, Sun and Moon, and most importantly, Final Fantasy XV. So we're gonna talk about that, which is very exciting. And then finally, I'm gonna talk to Ashley Carmen, who's been on The Vergecast before. She's one of the editors of Circuit Breaker and she's been spending some time with Spectacles. So we're gonna get kind of like a day in the life look into what it's actually like to, to use these weird camera sunglasses. Let's give you our show. You're not gonna hear any beautiful philosophical words of productivity wisdom from Dieter. Neelai is not going to say anything. Anything mean to me the whole time?
2:12 Speaker 00 It's gonna be a weird time for all of us, but I think we'll come through stronger and more knowledgeable about culture and who really makes The Verge tick.
2:40 Speaker 00 All right, let's do this.
2:41 Speaker 01 Hey, Paul.
2:42 Speaker 00 Hey, I was gonna, I was gonna say hello. That's kind of my like bit for the show. No, it's cool, it's cool. You're here, you're here now. I'm here with TC, hello.
2:52 Speaker 01 Hi, Paul.
2:53 Speaker 00 This is really exciting. This is like the newsiest bit of the show, so we wanna get this out first.
2:58 Speaker 01 I'm a newsman.
2:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, you're also my boss.
3:01 Speaker 01 Am I? I guess that's true.
3:02 Speaker 00 I think so.
3:03 Speaker 01 Which is weird.
3:04 Speaker 00 You're managing editor of The Verge. What do you do at The Verge?
3:07 Speaker 01 I manage and edit.
3:08 Speaker 00 Yeah.
3:08 Speaker 01 I would say.
3:09 Speaker 00 I'd say you do a great job.
3:10 Speaker 01 I write a newsletter now every day.
3:12 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
3:13 Speaker 01 A lot of fun.
3:13 Speaker 00 Command line.
3:14 Speaker 01 It's called Command Line.
3:15 Speaker 00 You can check it out at, oh, shoot.
3:17 Speaker 01 It's just a bunch of links.
3:18 Speaker 00 So what's the domain name?
3:19 Speaker 01 Click number two, feel. Click to feel.
3:23 Speaker 00 Click to feel.com. And you can sign up for-
3:25 Speaker 01 Which was Paul's idea. It was a great idea.
3:26 Speaker 00 It was a great, great, I did a good job. Uh, okay. So, the big news is AT&T just wants to give their customers more.
3:39 Speaker 00 They were like, looked out at the landscape and like, what do our customers need?
3:42 Speaker 01 Right, so the, so they bought DirecTV.
3:45 Speaker 00 And now, about a year ago?
3:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, satellite television company.
3:49 Speaker 00 They had all these ads about how this is a whole new world.
3:52 Speaker 01 It's a whole new world, which is the same world of media consolidation that we've been in for a while now.
3:57 Speaker 00 So don't you dare close your eyes.
3:59 Speaker 01 Big ISPs, big internet providers, Comcast, AT&T, Verizon have all been gobbling up media companies. Basically, they have huge, they're very dominant in their spaces. You know, Comcast has monopoly conditions in a lot of areas of the country. AT&T and Verizon are called a duopoly because they basically split the market. You know, compared to their market share, T-Mobile, Sprint are not really big players. And basically, they've used that position, all the profits that they've been making in those positions, to buy up content. So they, all these companies own- The access layer, the networks, and they've been using the profits from those networks to buy up content companies. So Verizon bought AOL,
4:44 Speaker 01 Comcast bought NBC Universal years ago, which was a really huge deal. AT&T just bought DirecTV and also they just announced this year that they want to buy Time Warner, which owns Game of Thrones, Batman, all kinds of us. So AT&T is going to own Batman, which is weird.
5:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
5:06 Speaker 00 Direct, does DirecTV own any of the networks? Isn't there some old timey, old timey rule about that was designed to keep cable networks separate from some other industry?
5:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, so DirecTV is a satellite provider.
5:22 Speaker 00 Right.
5:22 Speaker 01 Well, it owns, well, now it owns AT&T Sports Networks, Game Show Network. It has a 42% stake in, but Comcast is a cable company that owns NBC right now. So those rules, the rules don't prohibit cable companies or networks from owning content companies, but they can't hold on to those and not sell them. They're required to sell those channels to other networks, to other providers.
5:44 Speaker 00 So they can't make them exclusive.
5:47 Speaker 01 But those rules don't exist on the internet yet. They exist in the crazy tangled network of laws that have been argued out over cable television the past 50, 50 years or so.
5:59 Speaker 00 Which is becoming increasingly irrelevant, hence AT&T announcing DirecTV Now, which is an over the top service. It's just TV over the internet.
6:10 Speaker 01 Right. It's DirecTV, but it's just streaming over the internet. So you can watch it on your computer, you can watch it on, you know, television, probably through an app, and you'll be able to watch it on AT&T devices. And the issue that we are getting into this week is that AT&T is doing something called zero rating with DirecTV Now. They've already been doing it with DirecTV's streaming app. So it's not necessarily new, but it's a relatively new thing that these companies are doing. And because AT&T is so big, it's actually really important now to look at what the consequences are of doing that.
6:41 Speaker 00 Before we get into that, how big do you think this DirecTV Now service is? Like compared to some of the other options, the PlayStation, it's called View?
6:50 Speaker 01 There's PlayStation View, there's Sling TV.
6:53 Speaker 00 Apple theoretically someday.
6:56 Speaker 01 Maybe Apple, yeah.
6:57 Speaker 00 And, and then the, the one weird thing with DirecTV now is it doesn't have CBS. But other than that, it, it kind of makes sense to me as someone who doesn't have any way to watch live TV. Like, I, I'm looking into these services. It'd be nice to be able to watch live TV without having to worry about setting up an antenna.
7:14 Speaker 01 Right. So there's about, there are about 350,000 DirecTV subscribers right now. So it's not huge.
7:21 Speaker 00 Right.
7:22 Speaker 01 Uh, but the streaming service has obviously the potential to get a lot more. And I think the end game here and something that AT&T executives have been talking about already is that they're going to start to try to offer like double play packages with their cell service. So cellphone service plus cable tele- or, you know,
7:40 Speaker 00 Over the top.
7:41 Speaker 01 Premium television is going to be the new cable bundle.
7:44 Speaker 00 Right. And then you can just live an AT&T lifestyle.
7:47 Speaker 01 Right. You can live in AT&T's world, which will include DirecTV and all of these channels without having to, to go elsewhere. Unless you want, you know, Netflix or other competing video services, which is where we go back, get back into the zero rating issue.
8:02 Speaker 00 Right. So yeah, explain zero rating. I'm, I'm a T-Mobile subscriber, so I'm
8:07 Speaker 01 Me too.
8:08 Speaker 00 So familiar with zero rating. How do you, how do you like it?
8:11 Speaker 01 Well, first, let's explain what it is. It's, uh, essentially a good but imperfect analogy is free shipping, right? Uh, that a company is paying for free shipping. So AT&T and T-Mobile normally, you know, if you watch a video or listen to a song or go to a website that uses data, you have a data cap. You, most people have data caps. That data counts against your data cap. Zero rating is when AT&T says, or T-Mobile says, we're going to exempt this content from your data cap for whatever reason.
8:42 Speaker 00 Which T-Mobile started with music and ended up adding almost every music service you could think of, and then moved into video.
8:51 Speaker 01 Yeah. And their, their video thing was super sketchy. It wasn't actually a zero rating scheme as much as it was they started throttling
8:58 Speaker 00 They down res it, right?
8:59 Speaker 01 Everybody's video content without permission. And it was an opt out program. So that was kind of a different sketchy situation. And also their program is a little different in that they're allowing anybody to participate. It's just a standards thing. So if you want to downgrade your video to 480p or I guess DVD quality is what they're calling it, anybody can do that.
9:21 Speaker 00 So if you're a content producer, do you even have to talk to T-Mobile or can you just?
9:25 Speaker 01 I think you just have to comply with their specifications.
9:27 Speaker 00 And then T-Mobile will just throttle it for it. Okay. So AT&T is kind of new to the.
9:34 Speaker 01 AT&T's situation is much different because T-Mobile doesn't own any of those content companies. They're just, they're just doing that probably because they are trying to relieve some network congestion. And they, they want to, it's a way to downgrade it while making it look like an upgrade. But AT&T's situation is very different. They're going to offer DirecTV in HD. But the zero rating is a problem because AT&T owns DirecTV. So essentially they're giving their own product a free pass on their service, which is anti-competitive. If say you want to go watch a Netflix movie and it eats up a huge part of your data cap while watching AT&T's videos doesn't. It gives the consumers big incentives to only pay for AT&T services and to maybe not pay for other services that are going to count against their caps.
10:18 Speaker 00 So the FCC made new net neutrality rules or the kind of the big net neutrality ruling was last year.
10:27 Speaker 01 Last year.
10:28 Speaker 00 And that went to, it's been appealed some, so far it's been upheld as far as I know. And it hasn't gone to the Supreme Court yet.
10:37 Speaker 01 That one has not, I mean, I think it's in the process of people are, are starting to fight against it, but it hasn't been.
10:42 Speaker 00 That's the Title II classification.
10:44 Speaker 01 Right.
10:44 Speaker 00 But that's for basically home broadband.
10:47 Speaker 01 No, it's for, the big deal with the new rules is that it applied to both wireline and wireless. The previous rules only applied to home broadband. Wireless companies were kind of special flowers. They're given huge, huge exceptions.
10:59 Speaker 00 Why hasn't that stopped T-Mobile zero rating?
11:02 Speaker 01 Zero rating is actually not expressly prohibited by the net neutrality rules. The net neutrality rules have just a few bright lines. You can't discriminate, which means you can't look at packets and decide to throttle them or treat them differently when they're coming over your network. You cannot block other services from being delivered to your customers. So you like, you know, if you're Comcast, you can't block Netflix from from coming to your customers because you want them to pay pay you. Basically, you can't hold services ransom. And you can't do something called paid prioritization, which means you cannot degrade other services in favor of one that's basically paying you a ransom.
11:43 Speaker 00 Right.
11:43 Speaker 01 To to get a to get a that's the fast lane, slow lane thing.
11:46 Speaker 00 Right.
11:47 Speaker 01 Zero rating is different because it it's not throttling. So you're not slowing down traffic.
11:52 Speaker 00 Aren't you kind of looking at the packets?
11:54 Speaker 01 Hmm, it's that's complicated. I don't know. Um, it's not in the way that net neutrality prohibits.
11:59 Speaker 00 Okay.
12:00 Speaker 01 But basically FCC said, we'll look at zero rating on a case by case basis. They looked at T Mobile, they sent T Mobile a letter. They haven't done anything with T Mobile.
12:08 Speaker 00 Okay.
12:09 Speaker 01 They also sent AT&T a letter saying, we're going to look into, you know, we're worried about what you're doing with zero rating in DirecTV, but they also have not done anything yet. And it's possible they will not do anything um under a Trump administration.
12:21 Speaker 00 Hmm.
12:21 Speaker 01 Which is probably going to try to completely dismantle the net neutrality regulations we have now.
12:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, so how how would that work? Because so as far as I understand, like, the FCC is an independent agency?
12:34 Speaker 01 It's an independent agency, which means that the president and Congress can't meddle in its affairs once it's going. So the president and there's a tradition of the parties getting balance on the commission.
12:47 Speaker 00 Hmm.
12:47 Speaker 01 So the president will appoint a chairman.
12:49 Speaker 00 Right.
12:50 Speaker 01 To the FCC. And Republicans and Democrats will get almost a fairly even split of commissioners. Uh, but the majority party that's in rule usually gets majority.
12:59 Speaker 00 Which the net neutrality rules were on those party lines with the deciding vote being the chairman.
13:04 Speaker 01 Correct. So Democrats voted for net neutrality, the both the minority commissioners, Ajit Pai and um Michael O'Reilly are the two minority Republican. Commissioners on the FCC right now.
13:18 Speaker 00 So conceivably.
13:19 Speaker 01 And they've both been extremely vocal in opposing the net neutrality regulations.
13:24 Speaker 00 And also.
13:25 Speaker 01 Everything else they've been trying to do.
13:26 Speaker 00 Pi wrote like a paper earlier this year saying like, okay, it's been a year of this net neutrality. Here's all these problems with it and this is, this is not going well, uh, which was obviously not. The, the rules are still there, but, but theoretically Trump would nominate a new chairman and possibly other people. But we'd probably end up with the same split, but have a new Trump appointed chairman.
13:51 Speaker 01 There would be probably more Republicans on the, on the panel than Democrats.
13:54 Speaker 00 Okay.
13:55 Speaker 01 And it's customary for the, for the ruling majority to have the majority on the FCC. What the independent agency thing means is that after the FCC is established, after that group is, the appointees are established. The president can't go in and say, hey, do this or do that. The FCC is, works independently of the rest of the government.
14:13 Speaker 00 So could they reverse this rule? Like this is all, this is a classification.
14:18 Speaker 01 Congress is, you know, supersedes the FCC.
14:22 Speaker 00 Right. Obviously any, anytime all along this whole net neutrality timeline, Congress could have made a law saying broadband is classified as this. Or here's a rule for how broadband should work or what internet providers should do. Congress hasn't made any of those laws.
14:40 Speaker 01 No.
14:40 Speaker 00 Related to this topic at all and has left it up to the FCC. So could a new FCC theoretically just change this rule back? Like, okay, now you're not under.
14:50 Speaker 01 There's a process, there's a process they have to go through. There's public rulemaking procedures. They have to get comment from people, but Congress can conceivably just pass a law and undo it.
15:00 Speaker 00 So what's your, what's your feeling on what's gonna happen?
15:04 Speaker 01 I think they will undo it. Yeah.
15:05 Speaker 00 They will undo it, you think?
15:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. Getting rid of the title two classification is seems pretty high on, you know, from what I've heard, it seems pretty high on the agenda of members of Congress who are, you know, deal with telecommunications regulation. So it seems likely all of the ISPs would love not to be subject to those rules because it lets them do things like zero. And sponsored data paid prioritization. Basically, it gives them the ability to create a bunch of tolls.
15:32 Speaker 00 Right.
15:32 Speaker 01 That get money both ways. Now, people who are, you know, one of the reasons that net neutrality, I think, is a very, is a good for consumers is that it eliminates those tolls. Basically, you know, you're already, if you pay for wireless internet, if you pay for broadband at home, you're already paying for access to the network. So it's kind of a given, you know, when you pay for the internet, you are saying, hey, Comcast, I want access to the network. If I ask for Netflix, you should give it to me because that's our agreement.
15:59 Speaker 00 Right.
15:59 Speaker 01 And the ISPs would like to reap money on both ends. They want to have the consumers pay for access. Consumers are already paying for access to the service, and then they want to charge the companies for access to the customer.
16:11 Speaker 00 Well, and they want to sometimes be the company that is the profitable content company.
16:17 Speaker 01 Right. And really, the ultimate goal is to own both, both ends of that. So you're making all, you know, you're making all of that money.
16:23 Speaker 00 And by the way, TC wrote this excellent, um, what would you call it? Apocalypse? A dystopian, short fiction that doesn't seem so fictional.
16:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, two years ago, I wrote something called Your Corporate Internet Nightmare Starts Now, and it's just about like an AT&T branded universe.
16:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:42 Speaker 01 And I, a lot of people thought that was hyperbole, um, but it really is what they have proven they want to do. They want to own the network, they want to charge exorbitant rates for it, and they also want to own the content on that network. So they're, they're really reaping all of the money for the flow of information.
17:01 Speaker 00 Do you think there's something to these, these providers being so interested in content? That it's like, either they can't figure out a way to make enough money by just being a provider? Or there are rules that keep them from making as much money?
17:15 Speaker 01 Well, they're, they're already making a ton of money.
17:17 Speaker 00 They would like.
17:17 Speaker 01 That's not a problem for them. I mean, their profit margins for internet service providers are probably the highest out of any industry. Or one of the highest out of any industry.
17:27 Speaker 00 Apparently.
17:28 Speaker 01 Walmart, Walmart, for example, probably has a 3% profit margin.
17:31 Speaker 00 Right.
17:31 Speaker 01 The profit margins on wireless service, anywhere from 19. To thirty plus percent. It's enormous.
17:38 Speaker 00 And but they but they so they have these billions of dollars and they could invest them in more infrastructure, but they see it as more profitable lately, it seems, to invest in content, not infrastructure.
17:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, it's always more profitable to be vertically integrated, to own both the transport layer and then the product that you're delivering, right? And it's also a way to kind of deflect regulatory fairness. One of the original, you know, the original classification that the ISPs worked out was that they would be considered information services instead of telecommunications services, because telecommunications services were regulated by quality, basically like quantity, speed, and the amount of stuff you could download. They don't want to just be dumb pipes where they're just having people pay for for access to the network, because ultimately, in the long run, they're going to make less money doing that, especially if the government decides to cap the amount of money they can
18:33 Speaker 01 make by providing that service as a public utility. Once you start calling it a public utility, then there's a public interest in in capping the amount of profit you can make off of that. So they want it to be considered information services, which is different. They're providing extra value to customers that they can charge more money for. And that would be something like, you know, AOL giving you an email account on top of your internet access. That's why they're an information service, not just a telecommunications service. So they would like to continue being information services, even though they're classified under Title II now. And that and these days, that means owning video companies, owning publications, owning the information that actually travels across those networks.
19:13 Speaker 00 Right. So some of this monopoly and sort of duopoly situation seems like it'd be a job for the FTC to get involved in. But as far as I understand it, FCC's classification of these services under Title II sort of protect them from the FTC. It's like a protection from monopoly prosecution and stuff like that. Is that correct?
19:37 Speaker 01 So the problem is, there's a patchwork of laws across the country. A lot of they enjoy monopoly conditions because it's extremely hard to compete.
19:46 Speaker 01 Because you have to get rights of way, dig up the ground, install infrastructure. It's a, it's a massive, all of these companies have massive, what are called sunk costs, meaning they spend a lot of money upfront to create infrastructure. And then over time, those costs are really just upfront. And then they make a lot of money on the backend, charging people for services on top of those sunk costs. But they've spent a lot of money over the years lobbying local governments, lobbying states to prevent municipal internet services. So I think in either South Carolina or North Carolina, I don't remember exactly where, there's one town in particular where they just completely, they got the state to ban cities from creating their own wifi networks. Because they thought it was unfair competition for the state to be providing people with internet for free.
20:31 Speaker 01 And that makes sense to the extent that until you realize that there's really no competition in the internet, you know, there's, and it's a public utility. So it's something that people really need. It's not something that's really optional anymore. If you want to be part of human civilization now, you need the internet. If you want to be prosperous, if you want to even save money. I mean, think of how much money people save by ordering things online rather than having to pay for things local. It's a, it's a huge, I would say even civil rights issue for people to be denied access to networks. And there are lots of parts in the country where it's extremely expensive or very difficult to get internet access.
21:04 Speaker 00 Wouldn't you want, for the areas that are the hardest to serve, wouldn't you want sort of the profit carrot at the end of the internet racetrack to be larger, to, to make it a more incentive to grow this infrastructure?
21:20 Speaker 01 Well, I think the carrot's already enormous. I don't think the profitability is a problem. I mean, a lot of these companies threatened to stop investing in networks if they were reclassified as Title II. None of them followed through on that because it's BS. They, they are going to make a lot of money no matter what because it's a, an essential service that so many people need and are going to pay for. That the scale that these networks exist on, they're just going to make a lot of money, even if they're regulated more tightly. And one of the other, another problem especially, a unique problem in the wireless industry is that spectrum, which is the electromagnetic spectrum, the waves that this information travels across is a finite, limited natural resource. You can't make more of it. There's only so much we can use because a lot of devices and services like police
22:04 Speaker 01 radio uses a part of that spectrum. There's lots of things that use up that spectrum. There's only so much that we can use for cell service. And so these companies are using a resource that really belongs to everybody. And there's a big public interest in making sure that not just one or two companies uses that resource for their, for their own benefit. Which is why things like zero rating sponsored data, which is why net neutrality is really important, because it's makes sure that the companies that are using these shared resources are using them in a way that is fair and egalitarian for everybody in, in our society to use.
22:44 Speaker 00 I just, so I'm gonna, I'm guessing I've said this before on the Vergecast, I've never talked too much about it, but this is such a ripe opportunity. I'm not a big fan of net neutrality as a, as a government policy. I think it's a great way to build a network. And I think it's the ideal way for the internet to be. I just get the sense that the more of this regulation that has gone into place and the more rules there are of how you can be an internet provider, you've seen more consolidation happen, less upstarts. And I also really thought that, yeah, like there's a lot of regions where Comcast is your only option, or you only get good service from Verizon, maybe, or something like that, wirelessly.
23:26 Speaker 00 But there is a real chance for wired broadband and wireless broadband to compete and make it not a single possible provider in the area. And we, you know, we even saw that like however long, it was almost a decade ago when like YMAX was like going into people's homes and like that was going to be like a different kind of broadband and possibly cheaper or just possibly, you know. Available in a lot more areas. And I just, I just feel like this, this regulation is just consolidating this power. And it is putting limits on what these companies can do, but it's not stopping them or making them, or opening up the market to new upstarts.
24:05 Speaker 01 So here's my response to that. I think net neutrality has nothing to do with media consolidation, and it has nothing to do with preventing competition. One thing to look at, or one thing to consider there is that net neutrality, for the majority of the history of the internet, net neutrality was the status quo.
24:19 Speaker 00 But it wasn't a government rule.
24:21 Speaker 01 It wasn't a rule, but it was something that everybody agreed upon, because that was the idea behind the network from the beginning. It was just kind of understood that if you are connecting to the, if you're a part of the network, you should be, everything should be treated equally. We shouldn't be setting up walls between services. ISPs shouldn't be basically deciding for people what they can access and not access, and charging tolls.
24:44 Speaker 00 So why didn't these companies charge tolls when they had the opportunity?
24:48 Speaker 01 Well, they found out there's a lot of money in it. And they also just did not want to be prevented from coming up with creative ways to erect tolls, which is why they've, they fought against it so vehemently. But net neutrality itself, I mean, I, I would argue it's actually a very small government solution. It just sets up rules of the road for how to operate your network. It doesn't prevent you from competing with anybody. In fact, it makes you, the only thing it really does is forces companies to compete in ways that they don't want to compete.
25:17 Speaker 00 Well, but, but compliance is a cost.
25:19 Speaker 01 It's not really. You comply by setting up the rules of your network, which is we're not going to discriminate against types of traffic.
25:26 Speaker 00 If you're a large network, you have to file paperwork with the FCC. You have to go to court or talk to, you get a letter from the FCC that says, maybe we don't like this, which kind of gives uncertainty to your business.
25:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it's trivial, really. The, the amount of money that these companies make, that's not, it's not preventing them from doing anything. Comcast bought or tried to buy Time Warner, for example, because it just didn't want to compete with Time Warner. It could have, Comcast could have gone into New York City and said, we're going to spend the sunk costs, we're going to spend money to develop infrastructure here to compete with Time Warner. Rather than, and they chose not to do that. It has nothing to do with net neutrality. Net neutrality just forces these companies to actually compete in ways that are good for consumers. It forces them to compete on speed, forces them to compete on quality, and the amount of basically data that they're giving customers.
26:21 Speaker 01 And they don't want to compete on that because that makes them dumb pipes. It makes them have to actually, actually compete, and they don't like to compete. AT&T hated competition. Alexander Vail, who was one of the magnates of AT&T, AT&T was a government-granted monopoly. He wrote a paper in the 20th century arguing why AT&T should be a government-granted monopoly. And he said monopolies were good as long as they provide quality service at a fair price. And it turned out that AT&T eventually didn't do that. They used their monopoly position to reap massive amounts of money from everybody.
26:56 Speaker 00 I absolutely agree that a government-granted monopoly is a worst-case scenario. Okay, so-
27:02 Speaker 01 But I, on the other hand, I think there are realistic limits to competition in the marketplace, right? There's only so much spectrum that can go around. You know, people just can't dig up cities every year to create new competing networks. So there are certain realities involved that there are only going to be so many competitors. And with that reality, you have to say, well, we have to do something as a society to make sure that this essential public utility is actually being sold to people at a price that's fair and a quality that's reasonable.
27:32 Speaker 00 So yeah, so at the end of your article, you said, like paraphrasing, "The net neutrality fight is back on. Get ready to fight." Something like that. You said, "Fight, fight, fight."
27:41 Speaker 01 And the fight for the internet is, begins again.
27:43 Speaker 00 Fight to win. Go, go, go. I think those are the words that you typed at the- Okay, so what are some steps going for? And one thing I would love is there to be another 2.4 gigahertz. Be it like an LTE-appropriate band that is public spectrum? Because I think some really cool stuff could happen with that. But that's just me. What are some things-
28:06 Speaker 01 I mean, there's all kinds, I think there's, there's so many possibilities for things that could happen if these dominant players didn't, you know, weren't part of- This revolving door in government and didn't spend billions of dollars lobbying to prevent competition. That's really the history of these companies is that they've demonstrated time and time again, they don't want to compete. They would prefer to pay their sunk costs and then reap profits for decades. And they they want to come up with as many creative tools as they can to charge people and companies both ways to use the network. We could have mesh networks, we could have, you know, peer to peer stuff, we could have municipal wifi all over the country. Which would reduce congestion on cellular cellular networks, by the way, having municipal wifi everywhere would would
28:50 Speaker 01 reduce congestion on those networks and all the wireless companies love to do is complain about how they're, you know, they they can't accommodate everybody because video is so much traffic. Which is another ironic thing, they complain about how video is overloading their networks and now they're giving video data for free to their customers. It's funny how that works.
29:12 Speaker 00 I just I just think, why do they spend billions of dollars lobbying? It's because there there are powers in the government that can make their lives easier or harder.
29:21 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure. That's why anybody lobbies.
29:24 Speaker 00 Right. So I I just want to get the government out of the way. Okay, so but yeah, any other action items? How do we fight net neutrality if we are scared of of this?
29:36 Speaker 01 One thing to do is not elect someone like Donald Trump.
29:39 Speaker 00 So time travel is.
29:40 Speaker 01 Time travel. Don't elect people who want to roll those regulations back is one thing. Forward looking, elect people who want to keep net neutrality regulation. But then also, you know, what worked last time was really flooding the FCC with comments. The public has a say in what the FCC does. The FCC listens to the public. And Congress listens to the public. So contacting your representatives, contacting the FCC. Those are all good ways to make your voice heard if you like having a free and open internet. That's a good way to do it.
30:13 Speaker 00 If you don't like free and open internet, just sit pretty.
30:17 Speaker 01 If you want there to be one or two companies in the world that control internet access and own all the content and lock you into their ecosystems, then I would say, fight against net neutrality.
30:29 Speaker 00 Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me. You're a great man.
30:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, this was fun, Paul.
30:34 Speaker 00 Next up, I'm talking to Kaitlyn about Gilmore Girls. Any thoughts?
30:38 Speaker 01 I've seen every episode of Gilmore Girls.
30:40 Speaker 00 Including the new season?
30:41 Speaker 01 Except for the new season. So no spoilers for me.
30:44 Speaker 00 Well, spoilers about the interview with Kaitlyn, don't listen to the interview with Kaitlyn, because there are some major spoilers in that. Wow.
30:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I hear a lot of people not, not so keen on the new.
30:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, she's not a big fan. She's not a big fan, but you know, I hope you can go into that season with an open mind and heart.
31:04 Speaker 01 We'll see.
31:04 Speaker 00 And.
31:05 Speaker 01 I'm all about Westworld. I gotta watch the new Westworld. I'll, I'll see Gilmore Girls later.
31:09 Speaker 00 Okay. All right. Priorities.
31:11 Speaker 01 Maybe Rory is a host.
31:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, Rory here first.
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33:24 Speaker 02 Hi, Paul.
33:25 Speaker 00 Hey, Caitlin. Thank you for joining me to talk about a topic that's, I would say, near and dear to both of our hearts, but probably, probably more dear to your heart.
33:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, probably.
33:36 Speaker 00 Gilmore Girls.
33:37 Speaker 02 Yes.
33:38 Speaker 00 You wrote about the new season that they put up on Netflix all at once. Is this like the first show since Arrested Development that's like been a revival that the name did a season?
33:49 Speaker 02 Well, they also did Fuller House.
33:51 Speaker 00 Oh, that's right.
33:52 Speaker 02 Which was a disaster, but a controlled disaster. This Gilmore Girls reboot is a disaster that is like completely just running wild. Nobody's paying attention. No one cares. It's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's a trash fire.
34:07 Speaker 00 Okay. So before we talk about why it's trash fire, why is Gilmore Girls so important to you?
34:14 Speaker 02 Gilmore Girls, first of all, it's from a formative time in my life. If you talk to almost any woman of my age, they have seen Gilmore Girls. And that sounds like a generalization, but I feel like it's literally a fact. And it's about a girl named Rory who, um, she's like super smart. She's like a little weird. And her whole life, she wants to be a journalist. Um, she goes to Yale. She and her mom are best friends and they know everything about pop culture. They, they talk super fast. They drink a lot of coffee. They're just like cool. And it was important to me because I was, you know, like a nerd in high school and struggled with
34:55 Speaker 02 basic social functioning. And Rory is like that, but she's, it's not portrayed like she's a freak because of it. Um, it's like very pro-intellectual and it's just like funny. It's like well-written TV about like Rory and all of her friends are, you know, women who want to do cool, important things with their lives, which is just like fun to watch.
35:17 Speaker 00 I'm scared I liked it just because it was like a soap opera, like just following the peaks and valleys and relationships and the dramas and the will they won't days. But I also really liked Rory. I was like jealous of Rory because she just reads so much. She keeps on reading those books.
35:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, she does like them books.
35:37 Speaker 00 If I just read more books, I'd be more like Rory.
35:39 Speaker 02 Yeah. Well, and like the human drama is also compelling. I mean, it's like part of everyone's lives. And people just love, and people love the soap opera twists. But like, I don't know. I mean, it's just like a really well-told story with it's easy to jump back into at any time.
35:56 Speaker 00 So I never finished Gilmore Girls original series.
36:01 Speaker 02 Paul, what are we doing here?
36:02 Speaker 00 I, I wa- I watched into the last season, but didn't finish the last season. So I don't even know, like who, if, if you, if you're going into this cold and you do want to watch this new season, do you have to watch all the old stuff?
36:16 Speaker 02 So actually, this new season was, I think you can tell quite obviously, supposed to replace the seventh season. Um, because the creator of the show, Amy Sherman-Palladino, and her husband, Dan Palladino, um, they weren't involved in the last season of the show and they have kind of been like, oh, well, it's not canon. Um, and made it clear that like a lot of the things from this reboot were supposed to happen in the seventh season, which makes sense because in the reboot, you see thirty-two-year-old Rory acting like she's twenty-two at almost every turn. So yeah, I guess if you didn't watch all of season seven, maybe you would have a interesting, fulfilling experience.
36:55 Speaker 00 What if you never watched any Gilmore Girls?
36:57 Speaker 02 If you never watched any. Gilmore Girls, there's no reason for you to watch this reboot because you, I mean, it's terrible to watch it as a fan of Gilmore Girls, but if you didn't have any reason to be like invested in these people, um, you would find them very boring and mean, I think, pretty quickly.
37:14 Speaker 00 That's really sad. So who are you rooting for amongst, so Rory had few boyfriends throughout the original series.
37:21 Speaker 02 Yes.
37:22 Speaker 00 Lorelai had a major on and off relationship with Luke.
37:27 Speaker 02 Uh huh.
37:28 Speaker 00 And drama with her ex-husband.
37:31 Speaker 02 Yes.
37:31 Speaker 00 Well, who's, who's the good guys? Who's supposed to be the winners?
37:35 Speaker 02 I think-
37:35 Speaker 00 Who are you rooting for going into this? Or, or did that not matter? You just wanted to hang out with Rory and Lorelai again?
37:42 Speaker 02 Well, if this year on Planet Earth has taught us anything, there's no such thing as good guys. But in my experience with Gilmore Girls, I was always team Jess. First of all, he's the cutest. Sorry. Second of all, he's the only one on Rory's intellectual level. He's the one that makes her go back to Yale. And in this reboot, he's the one that kind of nudges her into a new passion project, even though I feel it's sort of a lame one. Yeah, team Jess. But it also like, it doesn't matter. You don't really get like any satisfaction from caring about Rory's relationships in this reboot because it's quite clear that every cast member was brought on for random scenes that had nothing to do with each other. And in some cases, you can tell that the actors weren't even in the same room when they shot their scenes together.
38:24 Speaker 00 So, okay, so why, what, what's so bad about this?
38:28 Speaker 02 Okay, what's so bad about this?
38:30 Speaker 00 Wait, uh, just, just to preface, I want to read your headline. The new Gilmore Girls is weirdly hostile towards fans, women, and storytelling in general.
38:41 Speaker 02 Yes. So I guess the thing that made me think that a reboot was a good idea is that the main draw of Gilmore Girls is the world it's set in, which is this town called Stars Hollow in Connecticut. It's super cute. Everyone in there is like charming and quirky or whatever. And it's like a place that you just want to hang out. So it's like, even if the story is lame, like it'll be nice to hang out in Stars Hollow again. Which turned out to be not true at all because Netflix showered this creative team with money and they used it to- Do a bunch of messed up stuff like uh the Stars Hollow set was huge, but also much more fake looking. And at one point they had people standing on one of the roofs. So you can like tell that it's not a real building. And it was just like very gaudy. Everything was much more like colorful in a way that was like off putting.
39:26 Speaker 02 It was like sort of even like sinister at times. I just found it like very disconcerting and.
39:31 Speaker 00 How is it sinister?
39:32 Speaker 02 It just like, I mean, first of all, the all of the plot lines of the story were like much darker and sadder than the show has ever been before. So then for the visual uh situation to be so like flashy and in your face was kind of like, ugh. Like, what are you trying to do to me right now? I just feel like I'm in a nightmare. It was literally like having a nightmare because everything was extremely heightened and also deeply terrifying. Just like quietly under the surface, just like utter horror at all times. And I know this sounds dramatic, but it really was so bad. I can't even believe it. Like Paul.
40:09 Speaker 00 Yes.
40:09 Speaker 02 There is a character in the show named Paul now, a new character.
40:13 Speaker 00 Okay.
40:13 Speaker 02 You meet him in the first episode. He's introduced as Rory's new boyfriend. And they've presumably been dating for two years, yet she constantly forgets that he exists. Serially cheats on him, just like very casually with no remorse. And like leaves him in public places and forgets he's there and like and walks out and gets in a car.
40:37 Speaker 00 Story of my life.
40:39 Speaker 02 And you're not like, this is supposed to be like a cute running joke, like, ha, ha, nobody remembers Paul. But it's like, that's so friggin mean to not remember that you have a boyfriend and to like act like he's not a person with dignity.
40:52 Speaker 00 Oh, he looks like a nice guy.
40:54 Speaker 02 I mean, he seems fine. He seems like someone that would like explain to you how to torrent without being asked.
41:01 Speaker 00 Right.
41:02 Speaker 02 But. It he doesn't deserve to just be completely ignored.
41:05 Speaker 00 Sure.
41:06 Speaker 02 It was it's really sad. I'm like, what is the point of this?
41:09 Speaker 00 You seemed really disappointed in Rory in general.
41:13 Speaker 02 Yeah.
41:13 Speaker 00 Is it because you looked up to her or or saw yourself in her and then it's just not working out?
41:19 Speaker 02 I always thought Rory was kind of a brat, but the thing that's supposed to be good about Rory is that she actually is really smart. And like well read and has like, you know, interesting insightful things to say about the world and she wants to like write them and she's willing to like leave Stars Hollow. Oh, sorry. That's a spoiler for those of us who haven't watched the final season of this show for whatever reason. But at the end of the last season, she like is going on then Senator Obama's campaign bus. Um, to become like a political blogger, which is like cool, especially because in 2007, everyone was like, huh huh, what blogging? I mean, everyone who was watching ABC Family, probably not everybody.
41:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was a professional blogger in 2007.
41:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, but it was supposed to be like, oh, my God. Um, and she now she's just like this loser who's like coming back to Stars Hollow and working for free at her town newspaper, which doesn't even make sense. Why isn't there a salary? Doesn't make any sense to me. And like she, um, at one point she like is reporting on a piece for GQ and falls asleep while she's interviewing a source. While she's wearing like a giant like taffeta T-length skirt and like heels. It's just ridiculous. Everything she does is ridiculous. Her lucky outfit is like this ugly red wrap dress that you would get at like Ann Taylor Loft in like 2004. It's everything she does is just absurd.
42:42 Speaker 00 Okay, you you said you wanted to give me some facts about this show, things that happened. And I'm gonna guess if they're true or false.
42:50 Speaker 02 Okay, yes. I didn't realize you had read my review, which points out many of the most absurd things.
42:56 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, maybe you could just check my reading comprehension and retention.
43:01 Speaker 02 Okay, here is a factual thing that happened on this show. A pig runs down the street as an omen. And then when Rory turns around, there are three men in gorilla masks in the street.
43:15 Speaker 00 False.
43:15 Speaker 02 No, that happened. And then they all run down the street in steampunk attire to the across the universe version of With a Little Help From My Friends.
43:28 Speaker 00 Well, I think that's true because you said that they had that.
43:32 Speaker 02 They're just some sober people running around this tiny town, um, stealing golf clubs and listening to Little Help From My Friends for no reason.
43:43 Speaker 00 I, I feel like the, the show used to have like, the, with the camera would pull back and show a little more of the town at the end of an episode because something emotionally resonant has just happened.
43:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
43:54 Speaker 00 That makes sense, but it sounds like they made a whole season of that.
43:57 Speaker 02 I don't know what it was a season of. It was a disaster. And they also, Emily has like a new maid who's played by the same woman who plays Gypsy.
44:05 Speaker 00 Emily is Lorelai's mom.
44:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, sorry. Emily is the grandmother. She has a new maid and the whole joke of the maid is that they don't know what language she's speaking. They like think it's Spanish, but it turns out not to be Spanish. And then they have someone come from the UN who also can't figure out what language she's speaking. And then she moves her whole family into the house, which is like a pretty offensive, like, oh, immigrants, they all live, tend to a room, like joke. It's like really messed up. I don't even know why I'm saying these facts to you because it's clear that they're real because I'm getting so upset.
44:40 Speaker 00 I'm gonna go true.
44:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, that one is true.
44:44 Speaker 00 Nailed it. Andrew, you're counting, right? Yeah, yeah.
44:47 Speaker 02 They're all gonna be true. There's nothing I could make up that's more ridiculous than the things that really happened.
44:53 Speaker 00 In closing, is this like Netflix's fault? Is this just the fault of, of 2016 as you've accused before possibly? Or is, you know, is this, you mentioned a lot of the problem is possibly just how much money they had.
45:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think they definitely got too much creative freedom from Netflix. But I also think perhaps the show's creator might be a terrible person. Um, because she planned all these storylines for when Rory was 22 and it seems just like brutally mean to make like six years of a show about this like talented young woman who like wants to be a journalist and you know, in, influence the world in like a positive way. And then to have spoilers, to have her get pregnant, um, and then cut to black. Like that's the last thing that she says is like, I'm pregnant. Is really fucked up like.
45:46 Speaker 00 Wait, are you kidding me? That's the end of.
45:48 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:48 Speaker 00 This season?
45:49 Speaker 02 That's the end of this reboot, which is like, it's whatever because she's thirty two, you know, who cares? And she's also obviously failed at being a journalist, so maybe she should try something else. But if it was the the the end of the original series, when she hadn't even gotten a chance to try to be a journalist, after like all of the investment that we have in her, it's. I can't even believe it. I can't even believe it's the same, like that the same woman who wrote the first six years would like have that idea in mind for her character. Not that like becoming a mom is a terrible thing to happen to you, but.
46:23 Speaker 00 Well, that's almost the genesis of the whole thing. Laura Lee had Rory when she was really young.
46:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, but like if you're if the whole point of Laura Laura's storyline is making sure that her daughter doesn't make the same mistakes as her, like that's when she has her freakouts is whenever it seems like Rory is doing something that she would have done. And then she's just like, oh, yeah, like every everything I've ever dreamed of is now either postponed or derailed because I'm gonna have this friggin kid. And also if it cuts to black, like there's not even any purpose in that storyline because we don't get to see how she handles it. I mean, maybe she wouldn't keep that child. What do I know? But like, you don't, you you just don't know. It's just pointless. It just seems cruel. It just seems like a mean thing to do to us.
47:06 Speaker 00 All right, well, I'm really sorry.
47:08 Speaker 02 I'm not gonna recover.
47:10 Speaker 00 This season happened to you. So would you still call yourself a fan of Gilmore Girls?
47:17 Speaker 02 Yes. So for me, I watched the new episodes with my grandmother and my mother and my sisters and my aunt and my cousin. And while we were watching it, I was like into it. I was trying really hard to enjoy it.
47:31 Speaker 00 You weren't like watching this for work because you're a journalist?
47:35 Speaker 02 No, in particular because I forgot to ask for screeners until it was too late and then they wouldn't give them to me. So. Um, but anyway, I was watching it with my family. We like, we bought Pop Tarts and Twizzlers, even though the Gilmore Girls are technically a Red Vines household, but Red Vines are disgusting. Um, so we we were nestled. In for the whole day. And so I did try to really enjoy it and it was nice to be with some of the characters again. Like Paris Rory's friend from high school is always hilarious and great no matter what. And I also thought like Emily Gilmore's plotline was actually really satisfying. Um, the way that she like dealt with her husband's death. So I was trying to like it and then that night when I was talking about it with my mom, I was like, yeah, I liked it.
48:18 Speaker 02 But you know, why didn't they talk about having a kid for like 10 years or like Hmm, like, why is Rory so bad at journalism or like? And then like gradually, the more I thought about it, the more I was like, oh, I really don't like that. Like, I really feel betrayed by these like departures. And um, yeah, I'm just never gonna watch it again, but I can still love the original show. Hopefully, I don't know. I haven't tried to go back to it. It's also hard to love Gilmore Girls anymore just because like everyone loves Gilmore Girls now. In a way that's like oppressive. It's like, if you say you love Gilmore Girls, everyone's like, yeah, of course you do. Like you're a white woman in your early twenties, like duh. Um, so.
49:01 Speaker 00 That's too bad.
49:02 Speaker 02 But you know, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, I definitely tried to like get out of loyalty. And then just couldn't do it. It just didn't seem like, it's been a really rough year and it was something to look forward to. Especially like that's directed specifically to women who, you know, could, could use a good, use a mood boost. And then it was like a slap in the face and I was like, mm, okay, thanks for that. Thanks for another one. Always, always, always another hit coming from this terrible year.
49:33 Speaker 00 Well, I'm really glad you joined me, even though it is still 2016. And is there any other entertainment in the pipeline that you're just really looking forward to? That's, that's gonna make it all up to you?
49:45 Speaker 02 Um.
49:46 Speaker 00 The next, next Star Wars movie you're just so excited about?
49:51 Speaker 02 Okay, there is a movie coming out. It's a World War II movie, which in general I object to the fact that we have a million and a half World War II movies, but it's coming out in March and Harry Styles was in it. So I'm on the lookout for that. There is a new Jake Gyllenhaal movie in theaters right now called Nocturnal Animals. And it's like a little messed up, but it's really good. And Michael Shannon is in it also. And he's like, I think, one of the more underrated supporting actors. And he does a really good job in it. He also just gave a compelling interview about Donald Trump that I suggest people read.
50:30 Speaker 00 Michael Shannon.
50:33 Speaker 00 All right, well, thank you for joining me.
50:34 Speaker 02 Okay.
50:36 Speaker 00 Please cheer up.
50:38 Speaker 02 Paul, wait, wait, wait. Before we finish this segment, can you tell me things you, other things you haven't finished besides Gilmore Girls?
50:45 Speaker 00 Well, for the longest time, I haven't finished Battlestar Galactica. But I think I finished Battlestar Galactica.
50:51 Speaker 02 Uh, is that a TV show or a movie with, that Rihanna is in?
50:55 Speaker 00 It's a TV show. The movie is Battleship, based on the hit board game Battleship, which I have watched twice, actually.
51:04 Speaker 02 What?
51:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:05 Speaker 02 You managed to watch a movie based on a board game twice, but not the final season?
51:09 Speaker 00 I never, I never finished Friday Night Lights, which I absolutely loved.
51:13 Speaker 02 What?
51:14 Speaker 00 I absolutely, especially the first season was just the most amazing thing and that just fell off.
51:18 Speaker 02 Okay, you have to watch the last season.
51:19 Speaker 00 I never finished Gossip Girl. I loved like the first two seasons of that. I never finished Veronica Mars. I loved like the first couple of seasons of that. It's a lot, there's a lot that.
51:30 Speaker 02 Okay, I will tell you.
51:31 Speaker 00 I never finished Wheel of Time. Skip Gossip Girl.
51:34 Speaker 02 The ending of that will not make you feel nice.
51:37 Speaker 00 Never finished Wheel of Time?
51:39 Speaker 02 I don't know what that is.
51:40 Speaker 00 It's a book series. I'm all caught up on the Game of Thrones books, so.
51:45 Speaker 02 Nice. Well, you'll never finish those because the rest of them will never be published.
51:49 Speaker 00 Probably. All right.
51:50 Speaker 02 That's okay.
51:51 Speaker 00 Thank you.
51:52 Speaker 02 Turns out finishing things is awful.
51:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, see, it's not all chalked up to be.
51:57 Speaker 02 Nope.
51:58 Speaker 00 Thanks, Caitlin.
51:59 Speaker 02 Okay.
51:59 Speaker 00 Have a good day.
52:02 Speaker 00 All right. So yeah, Gilmore Girls, big disappointment, apparently, but still, watch, watch the show. I think, I really think it's a great show and I still don't know why it's so important to me not being a woman. Just, I just really, I just really like the show. On a much more positive note, I have Andrew Webster on the line here and he got to review good pieces of media that brought joy and happiness and entertainment into his life. So yeah, it'll be a real pick me up. So let's talk to Andrew. Hello, Andrew.
52:40 Speaker 03 Hello.
52:41 Speaker 00 Thank you for, for talking to me.
52:44 Speaker 03 No problem.
52:44 Speaker 00 Uh, so you review video games, which
52:48 Speaker 03 I do.
52:49 Speaker 00 sounds like coolest job in the world, but is, is it the coolest job in the world?
52:54 Speaker 03 I mean, it's, it's pretty cool until you kind of need to walk through and the game hasn't been released yet.
52:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
53:00 Speaker 03 Other than that, it's pretty cool. Yeah.
53:01 Speaker 00 Well, and then I, I feel like the hardest part would be RPGs.
53:05 Speaker 03 Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, when Fallout, yeah, when Fallout four came out, I had to block off like an entire week to, to review it.
53:13 Speaker 00 All right, everybody, I'm dead. Fallout four is out.
53:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, pretty much.
53:16 Speaker 00 So you just reviewed two RPGs for the verge.
53:21 Speaker 03 I did, and I'm alive.
53:22 Speaker 00 Yeah. So thank you and congratulations. Uh, so I wanted, there's a, there's a big, a big, big RPG, but there's another big, big RPG that came out right before it, which is Pokemon Sun and Moon.
53:35 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
53:35 Speaker 00 Which one did you choose?
53:37 Speaker 03 I played Moon because it has like a, like a time shift thing. So when you play during the day, it's nighttime in the game. And I thought that would be kind of interesting to, to mess around with.
53:47 Speaker 00 Did you feel like there was anything different about the game? Not that they changed the game because of Pokemon Go, but just you see Pokemon differently now that there's been this huge cultural phenomenon?
53:59 Speaker 03 I don't know. I mean, the, the most interesting thing about it, I think, is that it's a more kind of like approachable game, has a lot of kind of like little tweaks that make it easier to pick up and kind of less. Complicated RPG, which I don't know if that's in response to Pokemon Go, but I'm sure it's a it's a very good thing to have all these people who are interested in Pokemon now and have a much kind of like easier way to get into the main games.
54:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, you noted in your review. I mean, first of all, I I don't know if you want to give a basic outline. I mean, it's a Pokemon game. I think we're pretty familiar, but you want to explain what what a Pokemon game is or what this is?
54:36 Speaker 03 I mean, it's a it's a Pokemon game that takes place in fictional Hawaii is basically what it is. So it's
54:43 Speaker 00 A lot of chill island vibes.
54:45 Speaker 03 It's super chill. The the main professor doesn't wear a shirt, so it's it's super chill.
54:50 Speaker 00 And like walks into your house unannounced.
54:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
54:53 Speaker 00 You mentioned this in your review, but this is my first Pokemon game since Pokemon Red. I actually I got that ninety nine dollar 3DS Black Friday deal.
55:01 Speaker 03 Nice.
55:02 Speaker 00 And and yeah, first game was was this Pokemon. And yeah, you mentioned this in your view, but when you beat a Pokemon or capture Pokemon, what moves are effective against it when you fight it in the future is just like listed right in your moves list. And is that that's a new feature? That is so helpful because I always knew, oh, man, I'm sure there's something that counters this, but I have no idea what. So for me, being not very familiar, it really was really helpful and it has been a pretty friendly experience so far.
55:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it's one of those things where I feel like if I played an old game now, it'd be like, it feels like this is missing because it just makes so much sense, especially now that there's like so many different types of Pokemon. It's like super complicated now. So having that information like right there so you don't have to memorize it is is super helpful.
55:50 Speaker 00 What's the new type for this? Some like transdimensional beings or something?
55:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, I don't even remember what they're called, but like I I can't keep track of them now.
56:00 Speaker 00 Are you good? Are you gonna catch them all or are you kind of done with this Pokemon?
56:04 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. But I see that that's the that's the rough life of the game reviewers. I have to move on to the next thing.
56:09 Speaker 00 You gotta move on. Okay, so let's move on. No offense to Pokemon. Lots of stars out of lots of stars. We don't do star ratings for video games, but would you say it gets lots of stars? It's a good one?
56:18 Speaker 03 It has a good amount of stars, yeah.
56:20 Speaker 00 Good, good quantity of stars. All right. Final Fantasy fifteen.
56:26 Speaker 00 It's a big deal.
56:28 Speaker 03 It is a big deal.
56:29 Speaker 00 Ten years. I didn't know it had been ten years. It's really been ten years since the last major.
56:34 Speaker 03 Well, it's been ten years since this game was like announced and work started on it.
56:39 Speaker 00 Okay.
56:39 Speaker 03 I actually don't know what times when Final Fantasy thirteen came out, but that was the last single player, like big single player game because fourteen was in MMO. But yeah, it's been like a long time. When it was announced, it was actually a spin off of Final Fantasy thirteen for the PS3. That's how long ago it was. They kind of changed it into fifteen and moved it to current gen systems and stuff.
57:01 Speaker 00 Thirteen came out in two thousand nine.
57:04 Speaker 03 Yeah. So this was, yeah, and this was announced announced or development started on in two thousand six.
57:09 Speaker 00 Okay.
57:10 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was called Final Fantasy versus thirteen originally.
57:14 Speaker 00 And I always felt like there's been this trend where like there was kind of like almost peak RPG complexity in like the PlayStation one era. And then as graphics got better, it became more and more expensive to put that much game into your game. And so, and I just felt like, well, next gen graphics are just gonna kill this. This was basically be a movie. And you know, I assumed it would have the same problems as Final Fantasy thirteen, just be some real linear story. But just because you can't afford to make a huge world at the production value of a next gen game. But it kind of seems like they just did it anyways.
57:53 Speaker 03 I don't know. It's honestly, it's considering like not just the length of time, but like all the changes and that happened over the course that it was made. Like they changed directors partway through. Like it's kind of a miracle that it it works. Like it is, it's still kind of messy and awkward in places, but like it's a really, really good game and it's kind of shocking that they managed to pull it all together.
58:16 Speaker 00 So as someone who's never finished a Final Fantasy game, I've definitely dabbled with a lot of them. I spent the most time with twelve, actually. I really loved twelve.
58:24 Speaker 03 Twelve is good, yeah.
58:25 Speaker 00 I liked some of the stuff in your review and some of the other things you've written. It's because like you wonder what is a Final Fantasy game? What makes it a Final Fantasy game? Why should I care? This is, is this just another RPG with a cool brand to it? Like what makes and seems like there's like a lot of entry ways into this game that like connect you to the characters and story.
58:45 Speaker 03 I mean, that's kind of like a difficult question, actually. Like what is a Final Fantasy game? Because one of the kind of cool things about the series is that like. They sort of start over with each new one, so it's they try new things and it's usually very different. There's like kind of core kind of elements, like it's an RPG. And so the way some of the systems work are the same from one game to the next. But what kind of makes a series cool is that they they're very different from from one to the next. And this one is like one of the most different because like you mentioned before, it has like has an open world, it has real time combat. It's not quite an action game,
59:26 Speaker 03 but it's like somewhere between an action game and like an old school Final Fantasy game. It has a car you can drive around, but if you if you if you get the right parts, you can turn it into a flying car, which I haven't managed to do yet, but.
59:40 Speaker 00 Oh, really? I think that's the that to me is pretty much all I didn't play the demo or anything. When I saw the first trailer, it saw these guys in a car. I was like that is simultaneously simultaneously the least fantasy RPG thing you could make and also like the most Final Fantasy thing that could ever exist. Of course, it's a boy band in a car. Of course, that's what the Final Fantasy game is.
1:00:06 Speaker 03 Well, I mean, that's kind of that for me anyways, that's like one of the kind of defining things about at least about the really good Final Fantasies that they're kind of like these big, serious, world-saving stories that are also like really weird and silly at the same time. And this is a kind of perfect example of that because you're like a boy band who are rescuing the world from imminent danger.
1:00:30 Speaker 00 So I went with my roommate to like GameStop's midnight release. There's like a decent line there in Bushwick. I watched some like streams last night. I stayed up pretty late because this game seemed awesome. I don't have my own copy yet because I don't know when I'm gonna actually play it, but it's awesome. So I almost feel like we should help lay the groundwork. You said on the site that people should definitely watch like these intro animes that kind of like these short free on YouTube videos that introduce these main characters. And also, there's a feature film that you're apparently supposed to watch, too. Can you set the stage like this this hook, these quirky, weird characters that I'm like instantly in love with just watching gameplay for a few hours? Can you set the stage like like hook us into this beautiful new?
1:01:16 Speaker 00 I don't I I don't why I've I've never been this excited about a Final Fantasy. Everything I see about it, it's just like, oh, it's just it's just surprising and and and fun and beautiful. I don't know.
1:01:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's really weird. Like, the the four, the kind of four main characters are really like the hook of it. Um, and the whole idea is that you're you you play one character. You play a Prince Noctis, who's a prince who kind of, uh, at the beginning of the game, he goes out on a road trip to marry someone who's betrothed to or whatever.
1:01:47 Speaker 00 He's got a real attitude.
1:01:49 Speaker 03 Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, he's a he's a very kind of surly, sullen Final Fantasy elite character. Um, and he brings, as you do, he brings, uh, three of his friends along. One of them is like, you know, the tough guy who's his bodyguard. Um, there's like his kind of personal minder, um, who's the driver and their chef.
1:02:10 Speaker 00 Who? Tell me if this is true or not. My friend told me that this guy has been trying for years to cook this one dish that Prince Noctis had randomly at a bakery.
1:02:21 Speaker 03 Yeah. So that's, uh, if if you watch the the anime you mentioned, it's called Brotherhood Final Fantasy fifteen. And they're like these, they're it's this five-episode series on YouTube, and each episode kind of focuses on a character. And his sort of backstory is that he, yeah, he has no idea what this dish is. Um, and he just changes like one ingredient each time he makes a dessert and gives it to him and and Noctis will say, uh, it's closer, that's farther away or whatever. And he's just been doing it for years.
1:02:51 Speaker 00 Also, he hates nighttime driving.
1:02:53 Speaker 03 He does. I mean, it's dangerous and he's like a very serious, sensible person, so.
1:02:59 Speaker 00 Cool. And then there's the photographer guy.
1:03:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, Prompto is like the the goofy one. Uh, when my wife was playing, she said he sounded a lot like, uh, Mikey from Ninja Turtles, which actually kind of works. And his backstory is like even weirder is that he used to be really chubby and he wanted to be friends with the prince. So he like started working out so he would be thin and cool.
1:03:21 Speaker 00 It's a real lesson for everyone to learn.
1:03:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, and he likes to take selfies, which is one of my favorite parts of the game.
1:03:27 Speaker 00 Which is weird to say, but I don't know, it all makes sense.
1:03:31 Speaker 03 Well.
1:03:32 Speaker 00 Final Fantasy.
1:03:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, what it does cool is it has like all these little things like the blonde guy pronto is a photographer and he'll take photos and Ignis, who's the the serious kind of caretaker guy, he cooks the meals and stuff and you have all these like little moments that kind of make it feel like you're really hanging out with your buddies like they go. You know, in like Final Fantasy games, you always like stay in it in to replenish your health or whatever. And you can do that here, but you can also like go camping and, you know, cook some food and just kind of hang out. And it like creates these really cool, small intimate moments that make it feel like you're connecting with these with these dudes.
1:04:10 Speaker 00 How long did it take you to play it?
1:04:12 Speaker 03 It took me just under 40 hours, but like I had to skip past a lot of stuff. But the good thing is that they you can kind of go back after you beat the game and and do things. It's a pretty big game. Like I there's a lot of stuff that I still want to do that I couldn't do in that 40 hours.
1:04:27 Speaker 00 Is it just because we're older that 40 hours seems like almost too much to commit to a game? Or is there something changed in society that because everybody talks about the death of JRPGs and I feel like that's almost part of it. It's just like who's who's gonna spend 40, 100 hours on one game?
1:04:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, if it wasn't my job, I could do like maybe one a year. That's a long, long time.
1:04:49 Speaker 00 But if you were gonna pick pick one this year, it would be this one?
1:04:52 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. I mean, if I was gonna pick one of the last several years, it would be this one for sure.
1:04:56 Speaker 00 Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Andrew. Keep fighting the good fight of playing those video games.
1:05:02 Speaker 03 Rough word, but you know, someone's got to do it.
1:05:05 Speaker 00 No, I love your writing. I love the reflections you have on the games. If you haven't read Andrew's stuff, I definitely recommend checking out No Man's Sky Travel Diaries. That was awesome. It's just the exact right way to approach that game. And I thought it was great.
1:05:22 Speaker 03 Thank you.
1:05:23 Speaker 00 Thank you very much for joining me.
1:05:25 Speaker 03 Cool. Thank you.
1:05:26 Speaker 00 I really love the way The Verge does video game coverage. If you haven't checked it out, it's I just feel like somehow it matches my lifestyle better than like a traditional games publication. Just, just it's more, it's a little bit more about the art form. It's a little bit more, I don't know, it's not about the score necessarily. I don't know, check it out. It's good, it's good stuff. Thank you, Andrew. So, last on the show, but you know, not least because this is typically a pretty gadget centric podcast. If this is your first time listening, you should probably check out some of the other episodes because there there really are some cool co-hosts that I get to spend time with. I think you'll really love to meet them.
1:06:07 Speaker 00 Uh, but Ashley Carmen has spent some time with Spectacles. Uh, we also had a review go up by Sean O'Kane about Spectacles. These are Snap Inc.'s new gadget. And we've talked about it a lot on the show, but now that people, a couple of our editors have spent serious time with these camera glasses on their face, I want to know what it's like. So let's talk to Ashley. Hello, Ashley.
1:06:32 Speaker 04 Hi.
1:06:32 Speaker 00 We are literally outdoors. Would you agree?
1:06:37 Speaker 04 I think that's factually correct.
1:06:38 Speaker 00 So we are standing in the Snapchat Spectacles Live. Snap, Snap Inc.
1:06:45 Speaker 04 At Madison and 59th?
1:06:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's a, it's around the corner from the Apple store. For some reason I visualized it right next to it.
1:06:54 Speaker 04 That's what I was imagining too.
1:06:55 Speaker 00 I thought it was gonna be in the toy store that they call it.
1:06:56 Speaker 04 I thought it was gonna be in the park across the street. Yeah.
1:06:59 Speaker 00 He's alive?
1:07:00 Speaker 04 I don't like this. This is really scary.
1:07:01 Speaker 00 So, right close to, oh hey.
1:07:08 Speaker 00 Right up near the door, there's like the cameras. And then there's a really long line at some fancy stores. And now it's going around the corner. So it's basically almost a whole city block.
1:07:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, but it's actually not as many people as I thought it would be because the store isn't filled.
1:07:24 Speaker 00 Well, no, but the store doesn't open until.
1:07:26 Speaker 04 Yeah, but I was expecting it to be like, how many people do you think this is? A hundred?
1:07:32 Speaker 04 I would say about a hundred.
1:07:33 Speaker 00 We're reporting live. Snapchat Spectacles Live.
1:07:37 Speaker 04 This is also the noisiest block ever.
1:07:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's crazy. Well, it's not as crazy. Did you walk past Trump Tower on the way here?
1:07:44 Speaker 04 No.
1:07:44 Speaker 00 So if you're going up 5th Avenue and you're on the Trump Tower side, there's like a bag check. So just get onto that sidewalk.
1:07:52 Speaker 04 I'm not gonna, you know, get into politics.
1:07:56 Speaker 00 Anyways, you have been hanging out with the Spectacles.
1:08:00 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:08:01 Speaker 00 You have this
1:08:03 Speaker 04 Oh, because Brian Bishop, our entertainment reporter,
1:08:06 Speaker 00 Right.
1:08:07 Speaker 04 got a pair, or two pairs, in LA when they first came out. And he sent one pair to the New York office here, and Sean Okane had them. And then Sean was like, "Ashley, you can play with these because I know you've been excited."
1:08:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:08:21 Speaker 04 So I've been playing with them.
1:08:22 Speaker 00 And then it got really cold out.
1:08:24 Speaker 04 Yes. And then it turned to winter.
1:08:28 Speaker 00 Perfect time for-
1:08:29 Speaker 04 That's just so funny, is like, in LA, they put the vending machine on the beach.
1:08:32 Speaker 00 Right.
1:08:33 Speaker 04 And everyone was just like, "Chill, it's on the beach." Like, worst case, you're in a line on a beach, like, whatever. Here, it's like, everyone's bundled up.
1:08:39 Speaker 00 It was raining yesterday.
1:08:40 Speaker 04 It's miserable as hell, yeah. And semi-trucks driving by every minute, like, this is bad.
1:08:46 Speaker 00 So, you, if, if this line wasn't so crazy.
1:08:49 Speaker 04 I would buy a pair.
1:08:50 Speaker 00 You'd buy a pair?
1:08:51 Speaker 04 Yeah. If I could just go online and buy them, I would get them.
1:08:53 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:08:54 Speaker 04 They're only a hundred thirty dollars.
1:08:55 Speaker 00 Right.
1:08:56 Speaker 04 They're fun.
1:08:57 Speaker 00 Do you think part of the reason that people want them is because it's so hard to get them?
1:09:02 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah. Totally false scarcity.
1:09:06 Speaker 00 Well, so what do you think about, you've used them. What is it like? How, how, what is it? Do you find any beaches just-
1:09:13 Speaker 04 Yeah, it totally changed my perspective on the world.
1:09:15 Speaker 00 A lot of more serendipity.
1:09:17 Speaker 04 Yeah. No, I was saying to Andy at work, like, the spectacles are cool. I feel like it's very specific a certain situation, where it's like, if you're on vacation and you want to remember your vacation, but you don't want to always have your phone out, I think that, that's cool.
1:09:31 Speaker 00 Hmm.
1:09:31 Speaker 04 If I had a kid and I wanted to, like, Amelia, our photographer, has a daughter who's really young, and she hoisted her up in the air while she was wearing the spectacles and put her daughter, like, over the glasses. And I think that's like a really cool moment, because you can see Luna's reaction and, I don't know, you're never gonna be able to-
1:09:48 Speaker 00 Amelia's right here.
1:09:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, I'm talking to Amelia.
1:09:50 Speaker 00 You could talk, you could talk. How do you feel about spectacles, Amelia?
1:09:53 Speaker 05 That was really fun. That was a really fun little video.
1:09:56 Speaker 04 Like, don't you think you'll revisit that video one day?
1:09:58 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:09:58 Speaker 04 Maybe not all the time, but like, you could find it on your computer, and just like, "Oh." And I think it would actually bring you some joy.
1:10:03 Speaker 05 Yeah, no, I would like to do it, and I've tried to get that photo, actually, of her in the air.
1:10:08 Speaker 04 I need to send you it.
1:10:09 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:10:10 Speaker 04 Oh, it's really cute. I loved it. Yeah.
1:10:13 Speaker 00 So it's in your Snapchat memories?
1:10:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah. So then you have to download it to your phone. It's not as fun to play with, like I can't turn my phone. So when I send it to Amelia, it's just gonna be a circle video. Which is so cool.
1:10:26 Speaker 04 Yeah, I feel like perspectives are really good in those specific circumstances.
1:10:30 Speaker 00 You were saying yesterday that it might be bad if you had spectacles like during a relationship and then that relationship ended. Because it's such a visceral memory.
1:10:39 Speaker 04 If you wear them all the time. And the whole point is that it's your view of life. I could just easily see myself in love one day, if it ever happens. You know, holding someone's hand or something and you press the record button. And it records this video of you holding their hand. And then you revisit it when you break up.
1:11:00 Speaker 00 It's in your memories. It's in your memories.
1:11:02 Speaker 04 Yeah, and then you're like, dang, that's sad. I don't even, I delete all text threads when I break up with someone. I don't actually have many photos of exes. And like the ones I do have, I really don't feel anything towards them. I'm just like, oh, that was a weird time. But like, something about a video to me, from your perspective, seems like it could definitely be more visceral.
1:11:25 Speaker 00 Well, I'm thinking of like Stranger Days and like Minority Report. Like, that's like a plot element. It's like these, in both cases, men who have these digitally recorded memories in some weird futuristic format. And they just revisit this old relationship and they can't let it go.
1:11:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:11:47 Speaker 00 Because it's like from their perspective.
1:11:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, I think it could help you keep alive a relationship that maybe you don't want to keep alive. I don't know. I definitely think for daily wear.
1:12:02 Speaker 04 I don't need to record myself going to buy a nine dollar cup of matcha. Like, I don't ever need to revisit that moment. Although, who knows, I don't keep a daily diary and sometimes I wish I did, I'm just lazy. So I'm like, yeah, maybe it would be nice to just be like, oh, on this day in 2016, I literally did nothing exciting at all, but that was my life in 2016.
1:12:24 Speaker 00 Do you record just mundane tasks around the house, where you're spectacles?
1:12:29 Speaker 04 I one day made it a goal to just record my day. And it was kind of, and I shared it on Snapchat too. So it was sort of embarrassing almost for me because, so I woke up and I was like, I'm walking down the block. Fine. I'm walking in my neighborhood. Fine. Then I'm like, I'm at the gym alone. Not so fast. I'm eating an acai bowl alone. Like, look at me, I love being alone. And then I would like go home and then like I started, I actually made plans that day because I was like, I need to look like I have friends. And then it felt a little bit better, but I don't know, I just think you need to record all those things. Like, I don't see myself revisiting these memories that I took that day.
1:13:09 Speaker 00 Also, again, I hate to keep harping on this, but it's literally the winter.
1:13:14 Speaker 04 Right, yeah, you and I have talked about how...
1:13:15 Speaker 00 It's so weird, I don't wear sunglasses, I typically forget them. And then in summer, I try to remember to put my pair of sunglasses in my backpack. So every once in a while, when it's so bright, I can pull them out. But I've never been good at just like having sunglasses on all the time.
1:13:30 Speaker 04 Right. Well, that's the other thing too, I wear glasses normally. I do have contacts, but like, day to day at work, I'm not gonna put my contacts in.
1:13:38 Speaker 00 Here's a thought experiment. What if technology is so advanced that there was a virtually invisible camera that you could choose to have built in to your, whatever glasses you want to wear?
1:13:50 Speaker 04 Would I?
1:13:50 Speaker 00 For a hundred thirty dollars. You don't even have to weigh the weight.
1:13:54 Speaker 04 So it would just be like my regular glasses?
1:13:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, you could, like, when you're like choosing if you want scratch-free lenses, you choose, you want this.
1:14:00 Speaker 04 Yeah, I would get them. It's cool. Also, you and I bought those spy glasses.
1:14:04 Speaker 00 That's true.
1:14:04 Speaker 04 And I just want to say that these things have been available since like the 90s.
1:14:09 Speaker 00 You've been able to mount a camera to your...
1:14:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, this is not new, it's just Snapchat's marketing.
1:14:13 Speaker 00 Right.
1:14:14 Speaker 04 And, and the glasses are extra stylish, whereas the ones we got off Amazon. Are like, I didn't, they're cool.
1:14:21 Speaker 00 It's cool, like a 90s Oakley cyberpunk.
1:14:25 Speaker 04 But yeah, Snapchat's all about marketing.
1:14:26 Speaker 00 Well, yeah.
1:14:27 Speaker 04 And the circular video.
1:14:28 Speaker 00 There is literally, I'm sure people have seen pictures.
1:14:30 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:14:30 Speaker 00 But this building.
1:14:31 Speaker 04 Well, Amelia will have some photos of this.
1:14:32 Speaker 00 It's like the whole face of this building is one big Snapchat eyeball.
1:14:37 Speaker 04 The vending machine looks really cool. It's an animated vending machine.
1:14:40 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:14:41 Speaker 04 I just want the vending machine.
1:14:42 Speaker 00 Which apparently doesn't work super well.
1:14:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, according to our sources in line.
1:14:48 Speaker 00 I'm standing next to somebody.
1:14:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, we're not actually allowed in line, just to have a wristband.
1:14:53 Speaker 00 I have a wristband.
1:14:54 Speaker 04 You have a wristband.
1:14:55 Speaker 00 I could buy this if I wanted to.
1:14:56 Speaker 04 There are line controls.
1:14:57 Speaker 00 Cause I got here before you guys. Oh, it's giving out a number. Yeah, apparently, cause I have a wristband, if I stay here till however, who knows how long, it's open from 4 to 10, I will get a pair of those.
1:15:09 Speaker 04 But apparently, from the point we are in line right now, it takes two hours, even after the store opens.
1:15:15 Speaker 00 Cause there's just one frigging vending machine.
1:15:17 Speaker 04 Yeah, that messes up.
1:15:18 Speaker 00 I don't know, I really, I just, I have this vibe, like, I feel like there's people who walk past this line who have this innate desire to get in line before they even know what it is.
1:15:28 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
1:15:29 Speaker 00 They like, fill themselves like gravitating towards a line without even knowing it.
1:15:34 Speaker 04 That's totally human nature, is to see a line and think that's the line you're supposed to be in, even though there wasn't a line you were supposed to be in at all today. I hate lines, though. I do, I'm an active line avoider, which is why I would, I can't wait in this.
1:15:48 Speaker 00 You don't do Black Friday?
1:15:50 Speaker 04 I don't, I've never waited in a line.
1:15:53 Speaker 00 Good for you.
1:15:53 Speaker 04 I don't think.
1:15:54 Speaker 00 What about at the grocery store? You just grab, grab.
1:15:56 Speaker 04 I'm like, I'm stealing this if there's a line. That's what's gonna happen.
1:16:00 Speaker 00 Well, thank you for joining me out here.
1:16:02 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:16:03 Speaker 00 In this gesture of buying spectacles, but not actually buying spectacles.
1:16:07 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:16:08 Speaker 00 Andrew, you almost bought spectacles.
1:16:09 Speaker 06 Yeah, twice.
1:16:11 Speaker 00 You can hear twice and almost bought them, but then just like.
1:16:16 Speaker 06 No, I got denied both times.
1:16:17 Speaker 00 Oh, you got denied?
1:16:18 Speaker 06 I didn't even get a wristband last night.
1:16:19 Speaker 00 You didn't get a wristband?
1:16:21 Speaker 04 And actually, I was telling Andrew that one, someone at Vox, not at The Verge, but in our company, has spectacles. And I said to him, I was like, "How'd you get those, dude?" Because we had just been talking about how we wanted them, but didn't want to wait in line. He paid someone to wait in line for him.
1:16:37 Speaker 00 No, he didn't even buy them already, but he paid.
1:16:40 Speaker 04 No, apparently there is a service that does that.
1:16:43 Speaker 00 Oh, I bet there's a lot of people.
1:16:44 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:16:45 Speaker 00 That's what I always think is so crazy. There's so many things in New York that people wait in line for. Like Shakespeare in the Park, and iPhones, and Broadway tickets. It's like, I thought everybody in New York was like, really busy.
1:17:00 Speaker 04 New York is a line city.
1:17:02 Speaker 00 I did see a scalper, and the line police forcibly ejected me.
1:17:07 Speaker 04 What do you mean a scalper? Like, he already had glasses?
1:17:09 Speaker 00 No, there was a lady holding a pair of spectacles, trying to sell them.
1:17:14 Speaker 04 Into the line?
1:17:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:17:15 Speaker 04 How much was she asking?
1:17:16 Speaker 00 She didn't even get a chance. She got booted. She's like, "You have to leave," which I don't even know how you do that.
1:17:23 Speaker 04 Well, that's the other thing. That's why New York is such a funny place for them to put this. New York is seriously the flipping capital of the world. Like, everyone here is hustle it. So, these things are just getting flipped. You're hustler.
1:17:36 Speaker 00 Sometimes, no.
1:17:38 Speaker 04 I'm not a good flipper either. I'm very much like a...
1:17:41 Speaker 00 Sometimes I'll like, give my roommate some of my Doritos so that he feels slightly indebted to me. Is that hustling?
1:17:46 Speaker 04 That's not flipping. Close, though. You're getting there.
1:17:51 Speaker 00 Last, last word on spectacles, Ash.
1:17:53 Speaker 04 Uh, they are affordable, which is awesome. They actually are stylish. The camera feature is cool. Do you want to wait in 12 hours, or for 12 hours? I don't know. That's up to you.
1:18:05 Speaker 00 Cool. Thank you for joining me.
1:18:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, thank you.
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1:19:35 Speaker 00 Well, that is our show, and I think we learned a lot this week. I think for first, first off, we learned that I have no idea what I'm doing as a solo podcast host, but thankfully, there are millions, nearly, I don't know, 70 ultra-intelligent people who work at The Verge and are all wonderful to talk to, and I feel blessed that I got to talk to four of them. So, so thank you, Andrew, Ashley, TC, Caitlin, for making this a great Vergecast. And no thanks to you, Neelai and Dieter, leader, leadership experts, big wig.
1:20:19 Speaker 00 Money, money movers. No, they don't do that. They don't move money. They're great guys. And I look forward to having them back next week because it's their show anyways. Yeah, so that's it. We have a ton of other podcasts in the Vox Media empire, stable of podcasts. There's Control Walt Delete every Thursday with Walt Mossberg and Eli Patel. And Eli Patel, even though he didn't do this show this week, he did do Control Walt Delete. So, you know, he's got his priorities. There's Too Embarrassed to Ask with Lauren Good, Recode Decode with Kara Swisher, and Recode Media with Peter
1:20:58 Speaker 00 Kafka. Also, if you go to iTunes.com/theverge, you could leave a review. You could say, Paul was the best podcast host. Thanks, Paul. That would be, you know, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but if you believe that in your heart, maybe that'd be a good thing to type into the iTunes review page. Something to think about. Also, you can find the people I talked to this week on Twitter. Andrew Webster, who's the video games guy, is A underscore Webster. Ashley R. Carmen, who talked to me about spectacles, is Ashley R. Carmen on Twitter. So that's convenient. Caitlin Tiffany is Kate underscore Tiffany,
1:21:39 Speaker 00 and Kate is spelled with a K. And then TC Sotek, who talked about net neutrality, is obviously Chill Mage on Twitter. So yeah, thanks again to all of them. Thank you for listening. And that's our show, Rock and Roll Paul. Those are the cool outro words that are like an inside joke that, you know, sometimes I wonder when we say them at the end of a show, does anybody even know why we say these things? And this is still funny. But we do it anyways. And that's really what The Vergecast is all about. Oh, I got a text message. All right. Have a good day.
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