I Have 23 Children

The hype meter is off the charts this week. The sweat is real. This Vergecast is beef, not bust. Our hosts Nilay Patel, Chris Plante, and The Verge's social beast Sam Sheffer begin the hour with a reflection on various motorized death machines and enormous phones. Then David Pierce steps in to discuss super heroes, Apple Pay vs. CurrentC, Microsoft's fitness band, and Chris's alarming misunderstanding of contraception. Join us, won't you? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Nilay Patel?

  Hello, we're live on The Vergecast, which I, as a man, have still completely not learned how to begin, and I refuse to try. And that really characterizes our show: a lack of effort, a refusal to try very hard.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  For people who can't see the video, you literally struggled to remove your fingers from the keyboard. You realized that you need to stop, and your body revolted on you.

• 0:34Nilay Patel?

  No, there's so many tweets to send out in the world. Hello, this is The Vergecast, where we talk about The Verge, which is cool. It's at theverge.com, but we talk about it with people who work at The Verge. I'm one of those people. I'm Neelai Patel.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  I'm Chris Plant.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  And I'm Sam Sheffer.

• 0:51Nilay Patel?

  And I'm very worried about the opening segment of our show. So Sam Sheffer is our social media man, our Snapchat about town, a notable hype beast. He's whatever. Sam has been wanting me on The Vergecast for a long time.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:08Nilay Patel?

  And

• 1:08Speaker 02

  And here I am. I made it.

• 1:11Nilay Patel?

  To be honest, I've been drinking, and so we're letting that happen, which is fine.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  You apparently have ice in your beer?

• 1:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. This is a drink I like. It's my favorite drink. It's one I make regularly. It's called whiskey in a cup.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 1:27Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. It's hard to make.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  You're so refined.

• 1:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. What you do is you get a cup.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:32Nilay Patel?

  Then you put the whiskey.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's really good. I haven't had a sip yet, but as soon as Sam starts talking, I'm convinced. So Sam, tell me about some stuff, man. How you doing?

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Doing great. I've been writing some electric stuff around town.

• 1:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, so

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Yeah, been writing some electric stuff around town. I've been writing some stories, which is a lot of fun, and Snapchatting a lot. And people like Snapchat, and people look at Snapchat all day. It's kind of crazy.

• 2:02Nilay Patel?

  It is.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  I put something up, and there's lots of views on the snaps quickly.

• 2:07Nilay Patel?

  It's crazy. There's a series where an episode Six of our Snapchat series.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Called Beef or Bust. It is essentially thumbs up or thumbs down with anything and everything in the universe.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's the best series on The Verge.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:19Nilay Patel?

  I I agree. I'm actually, I do agree.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Not even a joke.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  It's a very simple idea and easily digestible. 10 seconds and you're done and that's it.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  That's how I want everything in my life.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  10 seconds. Yeah, that's it.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Am I entertained? Yes, beef.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 2:36Nilay Patel?

  I think The Verge fundamentally at its core is simple ideas roasted to perfection.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Roasted to perfection.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  No, no, no. It's like when I go to a nice.

• 2:44Nilay Patel?

  Roasted? Do you know what roasting is? Are you aware of what broasting is?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  I went to college and I've never heard broasting before.

• 2:51Nilay Patel?

  It's not it. Broasting is, uh, there's a like a chain, like a chicken chain in Wisconsin. Where they, this is true, and it's like high pressure, deep frying. And they call, this is true.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  It's not like bros roasting bros.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sounds like like you don't expect it and somebody hands you a rotisserie chicken. Oh, that broasted. You have to eat it on like five minutes.

• 3:15Nilay Patel?

  Man, I'm Googling. Yeah, but that's what it should be. And I'm actually pretty confident that's. Oh, my God.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Broasted.

• 3:24Nilay Patel?

  It was infected by L A M feline in the early, in the early, okay, I'm stopping. Broasted.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  Broasted. I'll eat the chicken.

• 3:32Nilay Patel?

  But we do have a content series. This is true.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:36Nilay Patel?

  Which we literally describe as Sam rides things.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:41Nilay Patel?

  Like the last one was a motorized unicycle.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  That one.

• 3:43Nilay Patel?

  By the way, today, we, you know, we, we were hiring all these new people. So our new coordinator was like our fourth day today. And at one point she was sitting next to me, she was like working hard. And she was like, well, they've got out the robot. Or the, the robot is out. Our robot was like floating around. The motorized unicycle is also in play. And then there was like, uh, Sam was on a motorized skateboard.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  There are now two of them in the office.

• 4:04Nilay Patel?

  And everyone was just like standing in circles, like Instagramming each other. And then there was just like calamity.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 4:09Nilay Patel?

  Like everything crashed into each other.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  The robot crashed.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  I did not know that's our new coordinator. I thought that was just a new writer and I didn't realize it's essentially the person who has to make sure we don't kill ourselves.

• 4:20Nilay Patel?

  She's scared. She's not happy then.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 4:24Nilay Patel?

  She's very talented and very nice and we're gonna kill her. That's what's gonna happen. But no, that's, she's, I mean, she was just like, well, that's happening. I mean, at one point she was like, well, the robot's involved now.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  There is a unicycle behind me.

• 4:37Nilay Patel?

  So Sam, what is the most interesting thing that you have ridden on?

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Ooh, um, the, ah, the unicycle is super weird and like, cool, I guess. It's like, I rode it home a few times and I took it to Central Park. And so there's two types of people that see me on this thing. There's either you don't see me at all, or you see me and your head does a complete 180 degree turn because you are so dumbfounded because there are no pedals on this thing. And I just sort of rocking back and forth.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  It's cool. I rode it and said, when I rode in Central Park for the video, I got stopped probably like five or six times, a group of kids like swarmed me and they were like, can I ride it? Can I ride it? It's cool. I busted, I busted.

• 5:20Nilay Patel?

  Did you let him ride it?

• 5:22Speaker 02

  I let one girl sit on it and then 15 kids were like, I'm going second, I'm going third. I'm like, guys, I gotta go film, sorry. And I took it away.

• 5:28Nilay Patel?

  Guys, guys.

• 5:31Nilay Patel?

  And I got back on my unicycle, dropped the mic and took.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  And they ran after you because you weren't going fast enough.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't have any brake lights or anything. So riding it in the bike lane at night is pretty dangerous, um, which I've done and I made it home alive. And it's full, it's cool, it's fun. And then I rode this, uh, that one wheel thing back at CES last year. It's got just one goat cart tire in the middle and it's like a weird balancing thing.

• 5:56Nilay Patel?

  The Board of Awesome?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  The Board of Awesomeness was that crazy thing. The first Vert CES, actually, it had a Windows tablet controlled by a Kinect and your hand was a virtual gas pedal. It was nuts. I haven't ridden anything that cool.

• 6:11Nilay Patel?

  Have you hurt yourself on any of these yet?

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, the unicycle, I definitely busted ass twice hard and my wrist still hurts from it.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Have you seen the new Razor scooters that they like drift?

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  You like, you like sit on them and like, all the kids like are like riding and they're like Tokyo drifting.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  With the wheel that like swivels kind of thing.

• 6:29Nilay Patel?

  Wait, wait, it's not called Tokyo Drifted.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's the only thing that you can do. You either like.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  You could either ride it or Tokyo Drifted.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  You'd snap your e-brake and then you Tokyo Drifted. Snaps.

• 6:39Nilay Patel?

  I don't know if that's racist.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  No, of course it's not. I've seen all the movies. I know what is and isn't racist.

• 6:48Nilay Patel?

  I've seen, I've seen all of the Fast and Furious movies.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Guys.

• 6:52Nilay Patel?

  I'm deeply aware of where racism exists in society and it's not end drifting.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  I've only seen the first Fast and Furious movie.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  That's insulting.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  You're done.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Literally that's when he leaves.

• 7:02Nilay Patel?

  So Sam, tell me some other, you know, we should have a segment, we should sell a segment called like the hype check.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I, I think I know the perfect segment for you.

• 7:09Nilay Patel?

  Brought to you.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Hashtag teens. What's up with teens?

• 7:12Nilay Patel?

  But Sam's not a teen anymore.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, but Sam knows everything about hashtag teens.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I'm riding the teen wave with, with, uh, with the Snapchat usage. Um, I don't know. My hat and shoes match today. That's pretty good.

• 7:25Nilay Patel?

  Come on.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Hype check. We're hype checking right now.

• 7:29Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's it. We need a sponsor for hype check. It's gotta be like a really like not cool brand, but now it's time for hype check brought to you by Clorox.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I think it's like, it's a middle of the road. It's like a brand that's like, it's cool, but I'm saying they're cool. Like Bonobos.

• 7:42Nilay Patel?

  Starburst would like, that would like almost make sense.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it would. Clorox is great. It's like hype check with Sam Sheffer. This smashes was sponsored by Clorox. Clean your toilets. Be happy. And it's done.

• 7:51Nilay Patel?

  Do you clean your toilets? Are you not?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Mama's got the magic of Clorox bleach. Do you remember those commercials?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  They use it to wash your clothes.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Clorox. Oh, that Clorox. Yes. So Clorox should sponsor this.

• 8:05Nilay Patel?

  Wait, let me ask you a question. And this is not true for me either, right? Like I literally.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  You're super going to kick you out of your building because you've put holes in all of the pipes.

• 8:16Nilay Patel?

  I've never gotten to the point in my life where I've understood how to purchase cleaning products, right? So I lived in my parents' home. This is true. I lived in my parents' home and then I lived a life of immense bachelor filth for many years. And then I was lucky enough to like have a girlfriend who was like. Okay, I can deal with this. And then I was lucky enough to have that girlfriend move it. And then she married me. And like along the way, like she's like, literally, our closet is organized for me to be stupid enough to know, like, this bottle cleans the kitchen. But like, it never occurred.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  This bottle?

• 8:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, like, this is the one I use.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  You're a human pig.

• 8:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. I'm inherently filthy.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Human released are into a open space, and then people clean up after you.

• 8:57Nilay Patel?

  Right. But I'm saying Sam is clearly not at the point.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  You.

• 9:00Nilay Patel?

  He's like, oh, Clorox, that's what you poured out of the toilet.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I mean, that's better than, hey, it's the clean bottle. Let somebody put down my newspaper so I know where to shit.

• 9:11Nilay Patel?

  Well, no, just say it's.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Windex for everything.

• 9:14Nilay Patel?

  I suffer, and I'm sure many of the listeners of our show understand this, I suffer from insane consumer paralysis at all times.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  And that you buy everything?

• 9:21Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, well, I do buy. Chris, Chris caught me like, holding the Nexus 6 the other day.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  While holding your iPhone 6 Plus, and you're like, I can't wait to buy this baby. It's like, you have a phone that's a month old.

• 9:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but it's not quite big enough.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:38Nilay Patel?

  You have the big one, Sam.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  It's humongous. The only reason I have the iPhone 6 Plus is because the battery is very good comparably. I've had iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4, 4S, 5, 5S.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  They all are, were not, never great at battery life. The first day you got it, it was like, yeah, this thing's awesome battery. And then it's like, you go out to a bar at like 8 o'clock, and you've got like 40% left, and 9 o'clock, it's like 20% left. You're like, what am I gonna do?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Are you the saddest person at the bar? You just checking your Twitter the whole time?

• 10:06Nilay Patel?

  What am I gonna, like, I mean, drink more, Sam?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  If you're going, if you're going out at like 9 or 10, and you're not at like, with the old iPhones, and you weren't out, you weren't at like 50 or 60%, and you're out at 10 o'clock, you're done for the night. You're not making, you're not texting your friends at 2:00 in the morning, where's the after-party? It's fact. But now with the 6 Plus?

• 10:24Nilay Patel?

  Hype check.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I can hype check. Spots are my Clorox. I can go out, for real. I can charge this thing and go an entire day, and then wake up the next morning and still have like 20 or 30%. And it's great. It's super great.

• 10:36Nilay Patel?

  And all of your friends are like, why were you texting us at 2:00 AM? There's no after-party.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  My phone's big.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  No, the 6 Plus. This is great. It's just, it's so big. I can't even reach the A key. Like if I'm holding it in my palm, I can't reach the A key. It's like if, if I'm saying like, I'm at this place. It's like, I'm ST and it's just like, start suggesting things. And then like.

• 10:55Nilay Patel?

  That sound you just heard was Sam dropping his phone in disgust.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:59Nilay Patel?

  Because he finds typing on it slightly frustrating.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  And then, and then the best part is.

• 11:04Nilay Patel?

  Screw this magic.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  The best part is when I hold the six, every time I hold the six and I'm like, this is so perfect. Why did I do this to myself? But this is the, the reason I'm.

• 11:13Nilay Patel?

  Is that AT&T?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:15Nilay Patel?

  What time is it? 64, 128?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  64.

• 11:18Nilay Patel?

  Ah, man.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  I just, it's good. 64 is good.

• 11:21Nilay Patel?

  I'm still waiting for my 128.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  You still haven't got that one.

• 11:23Nilay Patel?

  That's gonna take for a thousand years.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Connecticut, New York and New Jersey are out of iPhones completely. It's kind of insane. There's just no iPhones to get. Um, I bought the big one also because I'm going to get used to a huge phone. So then when next year I'm going to get the regular sized one and it's going to be dandy.

• 11:39Nilay Patel?

  Dandy?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  It's good. It's my plan. I plan these things.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  You're literally doing like in baseball and they put the, the weight on the bat. So it's easier to swing later on.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Just that.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  You're doing that with a, a cell phone.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:50Nilay Patel?

  Hype check.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Hype check.

• 11:52Nilay Patel?

  I'm telling you.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  We've checked it. Hype.

• 11:54Nilay Patel?

  I'm not saying we've done a terrific job of ever attracting advertisers to the Vergecast. I'm not saying any major corporate sponsors have ever wanted to be near what happens in this space.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  If Clorox starts making toilet bowl cleaner, you're welcome.

• 12:08Nilay Patel?

  A1, I'm sure they already do. Not, not a fact that I know, but just one I suspect.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  As someone who literally calls all cleaning fluids cleaning bottle, I love to think that I'm an expert.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Hey, where's the cleaning bottle? Oh, it's right over there next to the other cleaning bottle.

• 12:21Nilay Patel?

  Here's what I know. Here's the thing I know. Suspicion of facts are almost as good as facts. And I suspect that Clorox.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Wow. That's a true journalist right there.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Speaking of journalism.

• 12:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, what?

• 12:34Speaker 02

  See that segue?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  He was trying to segue into some like.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Into some actual, into some actual topics. If you, if you want to talk about topics.

• 12:41Nilay Patel?

  I do. I, I do. Fine.

• 12:45Nilay Patel?

  All right, wait, no, Chris, you have notes, right? Here we go. Here are my notes.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:49Nilay Patel?

  Where did they go?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  You have tangible notes.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  These are like my opinions.

• 12:53Nilay Patel?

  There it is.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  What compels you to print out notes? Like, that's not something that many people do.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Printing sucks. I ruined the paper on the first try. Why do people, how is this still a thing?

• 13:04Speaker 02

  iPhones.

• 13:05Nilay Patel?

  You're the only one who does it.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Everyone just uses iPhones.

• 13:08Nilay Patel?

  Literally, there's like, there's a sound of like steam pistons going in like one of our rooms. And it's like.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  It's like, oh, Plant's printing something again.

• 13:16Nilay Patel?

  We let Plant use the computer again.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  I walked in and one of our courters was like, are you trying to fax something?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  It's like, no.

• 13:22Nilay Patel?

  I don't even know. I think the salespeople, they print things.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Salespeople love printing.

• 13:26Nilay Patel?

  I don't know what they do. They seem like they have a lot of fun, though.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:29Nilay Patel?

  I was doing stuff.

• 13:33Nilay Patel?

  All right, let's, I want to talk, you know what I want you to talk about with me? I want you to talk about Marvel, comics and movies. I want, I want you to tell me all about what you think about Avengers and what's happening there.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  So, comic books and comic book culture is becoming so mainstream, it's insane.

• 13:52Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  I grew up as what I would consider a nerd. And like, you know, I saw like Batman in theaters and The Dark Knight. And I saw, you know, I watched the older Batman films too, believe it or not.

• 14:04Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my God.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  And now all of a sudden.

• 14:06Nilay Patel?

  This is the part of the show where Sam makes me feel like an ancient, ancient, like statue of a person.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  So, yeah, there's a ton of Marvel movies coming out. And obviously, there's just going to be a lot of money made from these films. But it's cool to see that the quote, geeks and nerds are getting their fulfillment. And whether or not they like those movies is a completely different things, but a completely different thing. But I've seen the Avengers, I've seen Iron Man, Robert Downey Jr. is awesome. And it's, I think it's just, it's cool that they're doing this. And they've got a super.

• 14:39Nilay Patel?

  Are you like into these movies? Like, hype check?

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Definitely not like, I don't sweat them that much. Um, hype check, that's a hype word.

• 14:47Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  I won't, I won't go see them opening day, but I will watch them on Netflix.

• 14:54Nilay Patel?

  What, what is, I will watch them on Netflix. That is the darkest burn for like the movie industry.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  I pay for Netflix.

• 15:00Nilay Patel?

  It's not even like.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  I pay for Netflix.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Also Marvel and Disney will have their own Netflix.

• 15:04Nilay Patel?

  No, I'm saying, like saying about a blockbuster movie, I'll wait for it to hit Netflix is basically like, you're so unimportant, I will wait five years for you to like suck the residual revenue.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  The darkest burn is like, I'll watch it on TBS.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  With commercials, with all the stuff taken out.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  It's good enough.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  I will say though, uh, not to get too sidetracked, but movies are so expensive to go see. I, I cannot justify spending 14 or 15 dollars to go see a movie anymore. It's insane. I saw her in theaters and I saw Gravity in theaters and those are the only two films I've seen in the two years.

• 15:36Nilay Patel?

  Well, so, but Gravity is like one that you have to go see in theaters, right?

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's like the experience.

• 15:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I did the sad thing where I waited, I waited and then I was like, I'm gonna watch it and I bought a TV, I bought a new TV. I'm like, I'm never gonna do anything else in 3D on the television, but I should try this movie.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Was it the curved Samsung television?

• 15:54Nilay Patel?

  No, it was just my Panasonic plasma.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Curved, uh, 3D?

• 15:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it has a 3D mode that I'm never gonna use for any other reason. Uh, and you can't stream it in 3D in anything.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 16:05Nilay Patel?

  Like it's not, even on Vudu, like the, the weirdest of the movie services that has 3D, you can't get it. So I was like, screw it. And I did, I'm gonna admit a crime.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  You, uh,

• 16:16Nilay Patel?

  I bought it, I bought it online. I bought the 3D DVD or the Blu-ray and I was like waiting for, but then because I was impatient, I pirated that like hard and then I ended up.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Only one way to do it.

• 16:28Nilay Patel?

  Well, I did, I ended up, anyway. And then I ended up with like my laptop plugged into a TV.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:33Nilay Patel?

  Displaying some like crazy stuff on the laptop screen that the TV then interpreted into 3D. And like five hours later, I was like, yeah, let's watch this movie in 3D. And all of my friends like, nope, it's too late. We watched you nerd out for like three hours and now we're done and we're not watching it. So I sat alone in my house.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  And you watched it.

• 16:51Nilay Patel?

  And it was like, why did I do all this work? This is just a movie about floating.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 16:55Nilay Patel?

  Just endless floating.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Was it in 3D? You got the 3D to work?

• 16:58Nilay Patel?

  I did. Because, I mean, I'm the king of the nerds and I was not, I would not rest until it was three in the morning and the 3D worked, but it was not worth it.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:07Nilay Patel?

  I would have gone, I know it's sad. I didn't say it was a happy story. I didn't say you'd feel triumphant at the end of the story about my TV and a Blu-ray player and pirating movies.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Great if I did.

• 17:16Nilay Patel?

  Well, and then, and then, and then I was happy.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, cool. Great.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  So, back to Marvel.

• 17:23Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my god.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Just, I, I remember specifically when The Dark Knight Rises, um, came out and also the original Dark Knight, like, every one of my friends saw it in the theater. It was like, I went into the movie theater at midnight and it was like, I know you, I know you, I know you. So, I think, I mean, they have movies, like, what, twice or three times a year for the next four or five years now? And those are gonna be like, events and like, big momentous events and it's gonna be pretty cool to see like, awesome comic superheroes get the treatment they deserve.

• 17:57Nilay Patel?

  Oh, my god. So, you're saying that, but this isn't your thing. So, what's your, your media obsession right now as a hype beast?

• 18:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I like Supreme clothing a lot. I buy Supreme clothes.

• 18:07Nilay Patel?

  It's not media. You can't like-

• 18:08Speaker 02

  It's not media.

• 18:09Nilay Patel?

  Do you like, open your closet and watch your clothes?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  I, I, I walk into my room and I'm like, man, I got some nice pieces hanging up. I do, it's true. It's true. Like that flower shirt I got the other day, it's a, it's a cool shirt.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  It is a cool shirt. I like your style. No one's gonna argue that your style is whack.

• 18:29Nilay Patel?

  All right.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  No, flack.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Wait, what's, what's your question? Or do you wanna kick me off?

• 18:32Nilay Patel?

  I don't wanna kick you. I wanna, I'm, I'm, I don't. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna keep going for a minute.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  Keep, keep this hype train chugging along.

• 18:38Nilay Patel?

  What? That's like a mixture of like, 2014 and like, 1850's slang. Like, okay. Uh, no, so, let's, let's, real quick, I want, I want your, uh, your gut reaction to the Nexus stuff and Lollipop.

• 18:53Nilay Patel?

  And this is how I'm gonna transition.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  I put the drink down to talk about the Nexus.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  I just, I don't know why phones are so huge. It just, why? Why are phones so huge now? Like Vlad wrote this thing and I completely, yes, I have a 6 plus.

• 19:06Nilay Patel?

  No, he thinks it's a mistake. He lives a life of regret.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  No, I know it's a mistake. Again, the only reason I have this is because video, or video, battery, geez. The Nexus 6, why can't it just be like 4.5 inches? Android L?

• 19:19Nilay Patel?

  Because then we call the Nexus 4.5.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Also, their naming scheme, what are they doing next year? They're done.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  I don't understand the numbers.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Me neither.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Wait, isn't there like 9 there?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 6, Nexus 7, Nexus 9, and Nexus 10.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  But Nexus 6 is the newest.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Nexus 6 is the newest phone. Nexus 9 is the newest tablet, but they've already done a Nexus 10 tablet.

• 19:40Nilay Patel?

  And a Nexus 7.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Tablet.

• 19:42Nilay Patel?

  Which is a little bit bigger than.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  So next year, it's just gonna be one Nexus 8, and it's gonna be like the Dell streak all over again. Do you remember that thing?

• 19:49Nilay Patel?

  The thing? No, no.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  No, that'll never happen. Lollipop is great. It's fast. Android has finally caught up to where it's like, I mean, you can argue that it's been like this for a year or two, but it's caught up to iOS in the sense that it's like, there's no noticeable lag, like the finger drag test, it doesn't lag that much anymore, Android. Apps are basically all of the way there, and just the Gmail integration and the calendar integration. I never forget, I spent $750 on an unlocked Nexus, Galaxy Nexus back in the day, and I switched fully to Android for 6 or 7 months. And that experience, because I'm so tied to Gmail with work, is unbeatable compared to the iPhone.

• 20:34Nilay Patel?

  The only problem is that Google Apps for any company that's bigger than 5 is a disaster.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Like personal Gmail stuff is cool. Also, Google.

• 20:44Nilay Patel?

  I would say our company's experienced Google Apps during this time of transition.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  I have 6 email clients at any given time.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  I use browsers to do the time.

• 20:55Nilay Patel?

  Let me offer the people a window, some inside baseball window into Vox Media right now.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 21:01Nilay Patel?

  And I say this in the hope.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  I'm gonna Snapchat while you do this.

• 21:03Nilay Patel?

  I say this in the hope that there are Google employees listening. And at the end of this story, instead of feeling sad or triumph, what they will feel is shame.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 21:13Nilay Patel?

  So let me just, that's the preface.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Got it. If you want to shame people.

• 21:16Nilay Patel?

  I want you to feel bad about what I'm saying. We started our company, uh, which is called Vox Media. We started by launching The Verge. Before that, there was another company called SB Nation, right? That's our other site. So we had one Google Apps domain for SB Nation, and we started another Google Apps domain for The Verge, and we started a company called Vox Media. Then we started Polygon.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:37Nilay Patel?

  Then we bought a company, like, our company bought the Curb Network, Eater, Racton, Curb, which had three of their own Google Apps domains.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  You see where this is?

• 21:44Nilay Patel?

  Then we started Vox.com. It is impossible to make those things all work together without ruining everyone's lives for eight months, right?

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:54Nilay Patel?

  That's as near as I can tell. That's the fact.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  You know what's an even better idea?

• 21:58Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  To switch companies while it's all happening.

• 22:00Nilay Patel?

  Oh, yeah, switch verticals, right?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  And then for your email to disappear entirely.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  The best, no, the best was the-

• 22:05Nilay Patel?

  Just the simplest thing that you would want to do, which is have Vox Media be the parent of all the other domains, and then have that all work together?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:13Nilay Patel?

  No, not allowed. You must delete everything and start over. I mean, in our, in our company right now, like, you just say the words, you whisper the words, email migration.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  And people just start crying.

• 22:23Nilay Patel?

  They like fall to the ground, they flop around.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  No, I remember the, the calendar, there was like fifteen of the same calendar entries for, do you remember this, when, when all of a sudden, everyone had like a copy, just like forty-five copies of the same calendar invite?

• 22:38Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  It was a mess.

• 22:40Nilay Patel?

  But Chris and I had the same problem, which is I left The Verge for a minute and went to Vox.com, uh, and Chris went from Polygon to The Verge, and none of those email addresses are remotely connected to each other.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 22:50Nilay Patel?

  And so all of our calendars are crazy. And it's all because Google built this thing to run Google.com and nothing else, and they don't care about anyone else. And if you talk to anyone who runs a Microsoft Enterprise system, they're like, oh, that'd be really easy. I don't understand. And there's like millions of vendors in the city who can like, just like show up, and they're like, they'll, like, the vendor with the lowest bid, right? And they'll fix it. And they're like, oh, we're just like IT professionals. We did this because Microsoft actually built the system to do this. And Google's like, we don't care. Well, Google will often tell you when you complain about having multiple Google accounts, is they will say, oh, we have the same problem, because you know, I have my, my work Google account and my personal Google account. It's super annoying, right? And it's like, don't you work there? Like, don't you want to solve your own problem?

• 23:35Nilay Patel?

  And the answer is they don't.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  So where are we at now with these emails? What's the?

• 23:38Nilay Patel?

  The answer, look, just, just type my name into Google. And just hope something good happens. Nothing good will happen. All right, let's, let's switch you out, Sammy, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to end on this note.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  It's fine.

• 23:50Nilay Patel?

  Do you want to say anything else?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Um, I'll see you next week, maybe.

• 23:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but we're gonna, Sam's gonna be a fixture on the show. Hype check.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Hype check.

• 23:57Nilay Patel?

  Sponsored by Clorox toilet stuff.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  I got my Snapchat in, I'm good. Thank you for having me. Plant and me, you're awesome, I love you too.

• 24:04Nilay Patel?

  We'll have you. David Pierce is coming in, everybody. So Chris.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Tell me to read you my Marvel notes?

• 24:09Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I do want to read, yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:12Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Uh, these are.

• 24:14Nilay Patel?

  But you actually know what's going on with Marvel.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  No, I.

• 24:17Nilay Patel?

  Wait, actually, I don't want to know anything about your Marvel notes.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  I haven't even seen.

• 24:20Nilay Patel?

  Didn't you write the Marvel post?

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I write a lot of things on our site.

• 24:24Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god, this is a mistake.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Okay. I, you gave, you sent the Google Doc to me thirty minutes ahead of this.

• 24:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Just so everyone knows.

• 24:34Nilay Patel?

  That's what I expect.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Um, uh, this is what I wrote down as fast as I could. Mom wouldn't let me read comics because the trading cards were so naked. Which is true. I don't know if that's, so I tried to get into comics. But if you've ever bought Marvel trading cards in the nineties, because I couldn't afford the comics, so I just got the trading cards.

• 24:52Nilay Patel?

  Then you'll piece them together and make your own comic.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  They don't make any sense, because you don't know who's good or bad. But two, all the women are like naked, like naked.

• 24:59Nilay Patel?

  They were.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  So then I wrote chains on the girls, not for little boys. Because I was a little boy. And I remembered a glowing card with Jinx or Jimlet. And I think Jimlet is.

• 25:12Nilay Patel?

  Jinx, wait.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  She had like glowing pink cards.

• 25:17Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  And I remember that. And then I want to know why that character doesn't have a movie. Um.

• 25:24Nilay Patel?

  I mean, everyone else is getting a movie, right? So over the next five years, they're making like a thousand new movies, right?

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and making is the perfect word, because it's not like, no one's directing it, no one's creating it. They're just like, they, they have an Excel spreadsheet and they're like, this goes here, and this goes here, and the movie is going to show up.

• 25:41Nilay Patel?

  No, but here's, here's the, the bigger question I have about all these movies. And like now, there's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., the TV show. They, they're like designing a universe, right? The Marvel Cinematic Universe. And at some point. Like the pressure of all of the interlocking stories of that universe will like basically be.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Do it comic books did already as comic books and totally put everyone off.

• 26:05Nilay Patel?

  It's just like, there will, there will have to be one final movie where no creative decision making is allowed.

• 26:11David Pierce?

  Right, because every single thing is already decided.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  They already showed the character design for a movie that doesn't have a director. It's like, here's what that superhero looks like.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  That's what it is. And we know everybody wants to direct our movies because crazy, crazy money.

• 26:26David Pierce?

  Well, they're gonna hand somebody like five million dollars and be like, you babysit a bunch of like really vain, annoying actors for like three months. Some, in some remote location.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  I would love to know all the drama around Ant-Man because that whole project falling apart creatively and then just becoming like, Marvel's gonna get it done. I mean, I, I don't even know who's directing it now, but it was the guy who did Shaun of the Dead. And that's, that's basically what it felt like. Cause it's like, well, that fell apart and like, nope, we're still gonna start it right now.

• 26:53David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Paul Rudd, you're gonna be able to go see three games of the World Series while we figure out what the hell is going on.

• 26:58Nilay Patel?

  They're the only people who can get people to go to a movie theater. Yeah. Although I will say I went and saw Gone Girl and like three weeks after, it's been three weeks now, right? And that movie.

• 27:06David Pierce?

  At least, yeah.

• 27:07Nilay Patel?

  And Saturday, when I went to go see it, the theater was full.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 27:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Cause they, they started remarketing it. First, like the, the first wave of Gone Girl marketing was like, it's a thriller. What happened?

• 27:17David Pierce?

  Right.

• 27:18Nilay Patel?

  And now everybody, like every spoiler alert, everything happened. Like everybody knows what happened. And now they're marketing this big marketing push. This is the ultimate date movie. And it's like, this is like.

• 27:28David Pierce?

  Wait, wasn't, wasn't the immediate reaction to the movie that like, holy God, don't ever go on a date because you'll probably break up before one of you does something horrible to the other?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:38Nilay Patel?

  There's no way to talk about this movie, that incredible spoiler alert song.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  I have an answer.

• 27:43Nilay Patel?

  She's gone.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  He spoiled it.

• 27:46Nilay Patel?

  Damn it, I know everything now.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  I have an answer to your Marvel question.

• 27:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  I have a crackpot theory.

• 27:50Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  And my movie writer friends will hate that I said this.

• 27:53Nilay Patel?

  I like it.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  But I think a lot of the people who are now writing for like movie websites, movie blogs, movie reviews, outside of like maybe like the big five newspaper places, are people who read comics as kids. I mean, and if you talk to them, like, there's so many mainstream reviews that are like, "I loved this as a kid," and it's, it is, these are giant movies made for a very specific audience that also happens to be most movie critics. And I don't think that's the only thing. I think they're also pretty well-made action movies. But I think like, the fact that the people who are, you know...

• 28:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, I hear you.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Well, but it's also the... Basically, running the show on Rotten Tomatoes are primed to like your movie is pretty beneficial to you.

• 28:37David Pierce?

  But it's also like, everybody who writes for like, the AV club, right, is like, they're 29, and they're like...

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're the sweet spot.

• 28:46David Pierce?

  They're also, those are the consumers who go to movies. Like, those are the people who go to movies now.

• 28:50Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 28:50David Pierce?

  Are, are, the people who spend the most money on movies...

• 28:53Speaker 01

  I also think like...

• 28:54David Pierce?

  Are 29-year-olds who love comic books growing up.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  People also want things to take their kids to, and like, or like, anyone to, basically.

• 29:01David Pierce?

  Yeah, but Pixar like locked that up a million years ago.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 29:03David Pierce?

  They're like, "Oh, you wanna make a cute movie? Sorry, you can't."

• 29:06Speaker 01

  This is our thing.

• 29:06David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Um, but I, I think it is like, one of the few like, family things. Even though the movies are extremely violent, it's one of the few...

• 29:13Nilay Patel?

  But it's like fun, you know?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Things that like, everybody can go to.

• 29:16Nilay Patel?

  It's cute violence.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, that, my mom always jokes, she's like, "You need to, if you wanna be a real, real successful writer, you just need to write movies like, that women like to see, or that kids like to see." And she's like joking, but she's dead on, because like, anytime a movie comes out for anyone that isn't just like...

• 29:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  A generic white dude, they do great, because people are like, "Finally, anything at all, even superheroes, which are made for generic white dudes, like, finally, something that can take a family to, and not just be told to board by..."

• 29:46Nilay Patel?

  No, Marvel's trying to like, change it all up, right?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  They are now.

• 29:49Nilay Patel?

  Right, this whole new wave is like, diversity Marvel.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:53Nilay Patel?

  Oh, man. And then, and then, poor DC just has Batman versus Superman. Still trying to milk Superman.

• 30:00David Pierce?

  I completely forgot about that movie for like six months.

• 30:03Nilay Patel?

  You know why?

• 30:04David Pierce?

  Because it's it's also coming out still in like 13 years.

• 30:09Nilay Patel?

  I mean, I just like, just let go of Superman DC. Like Marvel let go of the X-Men. Sorry, we just like gave it away to Fox and it like flew away and we'll never see it again.

• 30:17David Pierce?

  And then Fox made all the money.

• 30:19Nilay Patel?

  Right. And like they gave away Spider-Man and Sonya's like, we don't have any idea what we're doing. But like, we basically made a Spider-Man video game and that'll be the action sequences of this movie.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  But see, there's something about these movies, they don't have to be good. Like that last X-Men movie is mind-blowingly bad. And people are like, well, it tried. And like, how creative, different time zones, time period.

• 30:41David Pierce?

  People are so.

• 30:43Nilay Patel?

  Part of the movie takes place in New York, but part of the movie takes place in Los Angeles.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  What? Not mountain zone? Nothing's mountain zone.

• 30:53David Pierce?

  Mountain zone. That's not what it's.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, mountain zone. There is, there is Pacific, mountain, central, eastern.

• 31:02Nilay Patel?

  It's not Pacific Zone.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Pacific Zone. It's like the Emerald Zone. You find Sonic in one of them and he runs to the other one.

• 31:10David Pierce?

  These all sound like Sufjan Stevens albums.

• 31:12Nilay Patel?

  All right. We have to talk about some other news. There's men, there's lots of other news to talk about.

• 31:17David Pierce?

  So is that a song?

• 31:19Speaker 01

  I don't. I've been singing Take Me To Higher Love all day.

• 31:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you, Chris has like.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Higher love.

• 31:25Nilay Patel?

  Legitimately ruined like two or three meetings I've been in with Steve Winwood.

• 31:30David Pierce?

  Steve Winwood has never ruined a meeting.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  That's also not.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Guys, can we talk about currency? You see how I did that? Now I'm the host.

• 31:38Nilay Patel?

  Do it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I'm the host.

• 31:39Nilay Patel?

  Read your notes, Chris.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Currency. Oh, no, we shouldn't because I, this is like the one that I really didn't understand.

• 31:45David Pierce?

  This is good. Let's start with your notes. What do they say?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Um, here is where I thought currency was before I read about it. Sounds like a, and utilities startup. You've heard of AC, you've heard of DC, but are you ready for currency? Oh, it's money like currency.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  And then I, but I.

• 32:05David Pierce?

  Can I just say one thing? I feel like you don't know what notes are. Is that, is that possible?

• 32:09Speaker 01

  No, I write to myself. It's like, this is what am I thinking?

• 32:12David Pierce?

  Like, dear Chris.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Now you know how every feature starts. Dear Chris, this guy has real things to say.

• 32:22Nilay Patel?

  I mean, oh, it's money. It's

• 32:25Speaker 01

  It's money.

• 32:27Nilay Patel?

  Let me just walk through the thought process there. Like you were like reading about it and you thought, oh, it's money. And then you turned to your notes like you changed the window.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  You saw how I typed. It freaks chat out because when people come to talk to me, I don't like to stop typing. So I just keep typing.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Okay. So then I looked at what it was, but I didn't feel bad because I was like, I'm a bad tech writer.

• 32:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  I can't even say it with a nerd's face. Um, nobody had heard of it last week. And now nobody has heard of it, but a bunch of nerds.

• 32:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Is that like, right?

• 32:59Speaker 02

  That's fair.

• 33:00Nilay Patel?

  Who are mad about it.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  It's the ultraviolet of currency apps.

• 33:04Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  It's dumb.

• 33:05Nilay Patel?

  That's a real, that's a good nerd burn.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:07Nilay Patel?

  You have to like, understand ultraviolet and that it sucks.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  See?

• 33:10Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Um, all my, no, Walmart sucks and so does the Marlins dude. Did you know the Marlins dude? I don't know if this is true. So slander alert.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  I've heard that the, you know, the Marlins guy who's behind the plate at the World Series games. So we like, there was a story done by someone who used to work for Vox Media. And, uh, it was like, oh, this interesting kind of puff piece around the dude. I heard he's, uh, the like, the workers rights lawyer for Walmart. So not for the employees, but like

• 33:46Nilay Patel?

  For Walmart. So he's paid. That's why he's behind this.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's mad paid. I can't support that guy. He's like wearing a Marlins little costume to games that don't have the Marlins in it. And he like works at Walmart, makes all the money. He's just, he's on an ego trip.

• 34:02Nilay Patel?

  And you're saying he's

• 34:02Speaker 01

  He don't have any of it.

• 34:03Nilay Patel?

  And he's behind currency.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be surprised. I don't like him and I don't know if I like this. It doesn't seem like I do.

• 34:10Nilay Patel?

  I have a suspicion of a fact.

• 34:13Nilay Patel?

  Well, now can we, here's the thing about, okay, can we just go through currency now that we've?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 34:17Nilay Patel?

  Oh, it's money is a good place to start.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And big companies use it instead of Apple Pay.

• 34:23Nilay Patel?

  There you go. That's actually the key fact here. So applerolledoutappelpay. Uh, which is not useful as far as I can tell. I used it the once, right? There was like the explosion.

• 34:33David Pierce?

  I keep forgetting that it exists. Like I, I'm so ingrained of like, I walk in somewhere and I take out my credit card and I hand it to them.

• 34:38Nilay Patel?

  Well, there's so many places you can't use it that are normal. Like I was at a bar and I was like, am I gonna, here's my credit card. Here's.

• 34:45David Pierce?

  Here's my phone.

• 34:46Nilay Patel?

  My phone. Yeah.

• 34:47David Pierce?

  No, but like I was even at, there's a Dwayne Reed right near our office and I went there and I got halfway into the transaction and she was like swiping my credit card and I was like, no.

• 34:56David Pierce?

  Let me use my, and then it was too late.

• 34:57Nilay Patel?

  Hey, but it's good. So it's the only one that works. I've never used the other NFC stuff. So it works. It's there. It does work. It's fine.

• 35:03David Pierce?

  Well, and Tim Cook said it's already the most popular.

• 35:06Nilay Patel?

  Because nothing else is popular.

• 35:07David Pierce?

  Right. Six people used it. So you win.

• 35:10Nilay Patel?

  Right. Apparently you can use it in cabs in New York City, which I haven't done yet. Um, I've seen that done.

• 35:16David Pierce?

  Ooh.

• 35:16Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's pretty exciting.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Not by you? Were you like, can somebody pull up?

• 35:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, hype check with David Pierce.

• 35:21David Pierce?

  I was near it. It may or may not have been Taylor Swift.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Great.

• 35:25Nilay Patel?

  Ooh.

• 35:26David Pierce?

  It wasn't Taylor. It was Taylor Swift.

• 35:28Nilay Patel?

  Um, yeah, I read a long article today arguing that Taylor Swift is a member of 4chan. Anyway.

• 35:32David Pierce?

  Thanks.

• 35:32Nilay Patel?

  From like a year ago. Uh, anyway, it was crazy. It was a crazy, anyway. Uh, so anyway, so Apple Pay's out, but there's a group of retailers has turned off the NFC and all their terminals. It's like Walmart, CVS, some other places.

• 35:46David Pierce?

  Bullies. Right. Aid was one.

• 35:48Nilay Patel?

  Right. It's like all the, and because they have backed a rival payment system called Currency.

• 35:53David Pierce?

  Right.

• 35:53Nilay Patel?

  Which is why it should be a power startup.

• 35:55David Pierce?

  Yes.

• 35:56Nilay Patel?

  Without question.

• 35:57David Pierce?

  Like they weren't explicitly supporting it, but it worked, right? Like the, the tech worked anyway and they went back and shut it off.

• 36:04Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 36:05David Pierce?

  Which is the problem. Like it's one thing if they're like, oh, we're not a partner or whatever, but like it worked and then they turned it off.

• 36:09Nilay Patel?

  Right. So, but here's the real problem with this and it's, it is, I think the reason.

• 36:14David Pierce?

  There are only one real problem?

• 36:15Nilay Patel?

  No, there's only one. And I, I believe that it boils down to a single essential fact, which is they have a rival system.

• 36:22David Pierce?

  Blu-ray.

• 36:22Nilay Patel?

  It's blue. They have a rival system, which is fine, but their rival system is built on QR codes. Right? You have to download their stupid currency app and then like it will like display a QR code and you like show it to a camera and then it pays. That's their system. That's their version of this.

• 36:39David Pierce?

  Wasn't this just like the thing you do at Starbucks, like writ large?

• 36:42Nilay Patel?

  I'm just saying, I believe.

• 36:43David Pierce?

  Where you hold it up and you're like, is it in the camera yet?

• 36:46Nilay Patel?

  Any, any, any system that at its heart involves a QR code makes people angry.

• 36:53David Pierce?

  Wasn't it last week that I said this about Facebook rooms and everyone was like, no, Facebook rooms is gonna have organic growth based on social media sharing?

• 37:00Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 37:00David Pierce?

  And then.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Who are these people?

• 37:02Nilay Patel?

  Why are you talking to like the large rooster from Looney Tunes?

• 37:05David Pierce?

  That was my Ellis voice.

• 37:07Nilay Patel?

  Why is Ellis southern?

• 37:09David Pierce?

  Don't ask. Michigan is the new south. Everybody knows that.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  That's the other Sufjan album.

• 37:19David Pierce?

  That's terrible. But if you use QR codes, you're dead.

• 37:23Nilay Patel?

  You blew it. So on top of the QR codes, it cuts out your credit card and it goes straight to your bank account. Right? It's basically a debit card and a QR code on your phone. But because Apple, like, Apple fans are, well, they want to use Apple Pay and their system is so much superior.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Nilay Patel?

  This is like a war that is brewing.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a question about all of this stuff?

• 37:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  So like, Apple, right? Big security breach. Big deal. People are really freaked. Then like, a week passes, maybe a month or whatever, and they're like, hey, you know what? Trust us with your credit cards, like all of them. And like, we have a device that you can just rub up against something and they'll take money from it, right? Like, why would, I don't think I saw a single article that was like, this feels a little weird.

• 38:08David Pierce?

  Well, I think the thing is, is like, everyone tacitly understands that like, there's actually nothing on earth that is less secure than your credit card number. So it's like, it would take you just one second to find my credit card number. Like, it's not hard.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 38:21David Pierce?

  And so if.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  But like, what seems even easier than like getting a number on something that's in my wallet is like rubbing up against my phone.

• 38:30Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  I mean, it can't.

• 38:31Nilay Patel?

  Because you go to places all the time where you hand people your credit card.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  And they can put it through the thing and they can take this, the secret stealing thing.

• 38:42Nilay Patel?

  Or like any bartender in any bar can just like, take a picture of your credit card.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 38:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  I never really thought about it like that.

• 38:50Nilay Patel?

  You know when you're in a restaurant and you hand the waitress your credit card? Or the waiter your credit card?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  No, usually it just falls into the bag.

• 38:56Nilay Patel?

  I'll be, I'll be coming with you.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  That's what they do. Why, why is our culture not like Europeans where they bring you like the thing to your thing? And you swipe it. They like leave. Like, cool. Let me cover myself up and like swipe this privately.

• 39:11Nilay Patel?

  Let me take my payment blanket out.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  My, yeah, yeah, yeah. No one can know.

• 39:15Nilay Patel?

  None. Yeah.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 39:17Nilay Patel?

  No one can know. Yeah. I mean, it's moderately more secure than.

• 39:21David Pierce?

  It's not that it's great. It's just better. It's not worse.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I mean, at this point, we should just accept that everything in our life is going to be hacked at one point or another.

• 39:29David Pierce?

  Yes. Absolutely. Yes.

• 39:30Nilay Patel?

  We ran a story. Americans fear being hacked more than being murdered, which is probably accurate because you are more likely to be hacked than murdered.

• 39:37David Pierce?

  No, I really think this is true. Like you just, you have to assume that at some point you are going to be hacked.

• 39:43Nilay Patel?

  Also, I will say this.

• 39:44David Pierce?

  I don't know what that means. I don't know how to respond to that.

• 39:46Nilay Patel?

  Right. So that's the hack versus murder. Cause if you're like, if you're, I think a normal person, and I'm just gonna go with it. You, in your mind, construct elaborate plans to deal with the threat of murder.

• 39:58David Pierce?

  Tell me your elaborate plans.

• 39:59Nilay Patel?

  Like if someone was to come in this room right now, like I would duck behind the video wall and then I would like fashion.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Fucking Jason Bourne. Like when I sit down, I make sure there are at least four windows.

• 40:09Nilay Patel?

  You've never done this? You've never been like, you've never woken up and had like the fuck is there someone in my house fear? And then like, what do I do? And then like, I know where the knife is. This never happens to you.

• 40:18David Pierce?

  Oh no, that I've got down.

• 40:19Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 40:19David Pierce?

  But the like, the fact that you just immediately went video wall is like you sat down and like cased the joint.

• 40:26Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's what I do. I'm constantly in a look.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Safety casing.

• 40:28Nilay Patel?

  I'm all, right.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  I don't wanna steal anything. I just wanna know I'm gonna lose.

• 40:33Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:34Nilay Patel?

  That's what you do. In any new room, you figure out where you would hide and then you locate the nearest weapon. That's a thing that I do. I don't know if that's weird for you. Um, but you, John, our producer's like, not weird. That's what you do.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Totally safe.

• 40:45Nilay Patel?

  You locate weapons as you walk through the world. Uh, fine. Just a normal thing.

• 40:49David Pierce?

  We can't hang out anymore.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Your life is a video game.

• 40:53David Pierce?

  And then you walk over them and you just pick them up.

• 40:55Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it doesn't matter how much stuff you're carrying. Super easy, everybody. But with the fear of being hacked, like, there's no way to be like, and then I would do this, or like, I would feel this threat and I would take these actions. It's more like, nope, that's,

• 41:08David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 41:08Nilay Patel?

  That bad thing is just gonna happen to me.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  My wife was hacked while we were in Austin, and she was like, very, very concerned, and she had to, it was on Apple, of all things, and they got, they bought an iPad with it. It was right after the new iPads were announced, and at first I was terrified because of, forever being terrified because of people threatening to hack me and my wife on a regular basis.

• 41:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Um.

• 41:31Nilay Patel?

  Damn it, babe.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Yay. But quickly, I realized that, well, I think, hopefully, it was just somebody who was like, hey, people are ordering a lot of iPads right now, I'll hack some accounts, order iPads, push them to a offshore shipping facility in California, send them away, and maybe you won't notice when the email gives you an alert because you already ordered an iPad that day too. It's like, I think, I think it's a logic, because it's a pretty, it's a smart idea, right? Like, order, hack people's accounts on the day when iPads are getting announced because everybody's buying them, and odds are that maybe you can sneak a few through.

• 42:05Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Um, but she was like, was worried about, and she's like, I have to, I have to get a new credit card and all this stuff. Like, if this is, like, as bad as the hack is,

• 42:14Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  this is great. Like, and it's, but it's sad that that is now how I feel about hacking and credit cards, where it's like, oh, you got my credit card? Great, I can get a new credit card.

• 42:23Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Like, my, my bank will help me with that.

• 42:25Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  I'm more worried about like, anything else.

• 42:27Nilay Patel?

  Well, that's, so that's actually the thing about all this payment stuff. Like, there is this sense that, like, banks, like, huge banks are bad, right, in some way, they caused the financial crisis.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:37Nilay Patel?

  Retailers are terrible at security, so I don't want to give them my checking card, uh, checking out information. And it's like, so which of these evil things will I pick? And I'm pretty sure the answer is the banks.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, because a credit card is a money condom. A credit card is the money condom. It's not directly, immediately pulling the money out of your bank, right?

• 42:56Nilay Patel?

  Do you, do you know how, that's?

• 42:58David Pierce?

  Wait, wait, I have an idea. Let's not do what we're about to do.

• 43:02Nilay Patel?

  Okay. I'm just saying, like,

• 43:03Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 43:05Nilay Patel?

  That's not how a condom works. That's all I want to say.

• 43:07David Pierce?

  Damn it, we're doing it.

• 43:08Nilay Patel?

  Just say it.

• 43:09David Pierce?

  We're doing it.

• 43:09Nilay Patel?

  It doesn't sheath your money. It doesn't, right? Think about it. Nope, you're still thinking about it.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Now, I guess?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  I don't know. I never learned that one. I have 23 children.

• 43:27Nilay Patel?

  I'm sorry.

• 43:29David Pierce?

  But he never spends any money.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to be safe, you know?

• 43:37David Pierce?

  That shit is protected.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Because I've never actually paid my credit card. It was a wedding condom. I thought we were all okay. I thought I would just keep accumulating debt, buying flat screen TVs for my 23 children. How else would I pay for 23 children? It all makes sense.

• 43:54Nilay Patel?

  Never has a metaphor gone so poorly on this show.

• 43:58David Pierce?

  That's definitely not true.

• 44:00Nilay Patel?

  Fair. All right, let's abruptly change the subject.

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Uh, Samsung.

• 44:05Nilay Patel?

  You want, no, no, we should talk about some, some, some news.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:08Nilay Patel?

  David, you did some Microsoft stuff.

• 44:09David Pierce?

  News? Yeah.

• 44:10Nilay Patel?

  You did actually a bunch of Microsoft stuff.

• 44:12David Pierce?

  I did. So Microsoft is doing health things. Uh, it's called Microsoft Health. I think it's super funny that Microsoft went from like weird, crazy arcane names.

• 44:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 44:22David Pierce?

  To just very straightforward, like dictionary definitions of words. They're like, it's a band? Let's call it the band.

• 44:32David Pierce?

  And they're like, well, we have this whole platform that's about health.

• 44:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  And then somebody's like, guys. Partnering with Bob Dylan anytime soon.

• 44:38David Pierce?

  Yeah. He's like, he gets up and he's like, I have, he's like the banner and he's got a, you know, he's got a curtain over it. And he's like, guys, ready for the name? Health. And everybody just goes crazy.

• 44:53David Pierce?

  So basically the idea is, uh, health is this huge backend platform. Microsoft's big thing is like machine learning and big data and cloud and mobile. And this is the stuff they keep talking about. So they built this whole platform that is basically like the way to accumulate and ingest all of your fitness data from everywhere. So any device, any app, anything, it can all feed into Microsoft Health. And then its job is to process all this stuff and basically tell you how to live better. So like it plugs into your calendar and it's like, hey, you shouldn't run this morning because you have a meeting. And when you run before early meetings, you get tired later in the day. It's like crazy stuff that they think they can do. Like all the way down this road of like, once they get the data to do this stuff, they're like, when you have coffee and then a heavy dinner,

• 45:37David Pierce?

  you don't sleep very well, but when you have coffee and a light dinner, you're fine. And like, it's the, the things they're going to be actually be able to do, once they have this, all this data, or so they claim, uh, is just crazy and enormous. And it's the most cross-platform thing that actually exists, which is like a huge deal for Microsoft. They have these really great apps for iOS and Android and Windows Phone, which nothing else has.

• 45:57Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 45:58David Pierce?

  And like, it supports Android Wear, it supports like the motion processor. Because it's just dumping data. Like it, it, it plugs in at the system level, all of, yeah, all of Apple's API stuff is open. It's all open on Apple devices and Microsoft makes an app for Apple devices.

• 46:13Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 46:14David Pierce?

  So it's just plugging into Apple Health and it's plugging into Google Fit and then it's pulling all this data out.

• 46:21Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 46:21David Pierce?

  So like it just, there's so much data available to Microsoft if they do this right and if they get people to use it. And the first thing they've been, the first thing they made is this, which is the band, which is kind of like weird and big and blocky.

• 46:33Nilay Patel?

  I mean, this is, yeah, this is.

• 46:35David Pierce?

  But it's all, it's like, it's a prototype. Like I wrote about it this afternoon and it's, it's, it feels like something they would have tested it with. And they're, they're super straightforward about it. It was really interesting talking to their team because they're like, their whole thing was they're, they're only making a certain number of this, like they're artificially limiting it because they're like, this is not the last one. We want to rev really fast. And if we make 50 million of these, we have to sell them all before we make another one. And it was like, that's a, that's a fair answer. And their whole thing is they want to get bigger and better really fast. That's the charger. It's awful.

• 47:03Nilay Patel?

  Wait, that's the charger? So the thing that I just, I walked in today and everyone was talking about this and all I kept hearing was Chris Segal saying it's not waterproof.

• 47:12David Pierce?

  It's, yeah.

• 47:13Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like, that's weird. That's a weird thing for something you're supposed to sweat on.

• 47:16David Pierce?

  Well, so the other thing which-

• 47:17Nilay Patel?

  This is an interesting clasp.

• 47:19David Pierce?

  Yeah, it's actually really neat. You can put it on and then change, you could like, you can tighten it if you're working out and don't want to flopping around and then loosen it without actually having to take it off, which is cool. But so the thing that Microsoft is doing that's super interesting is A, all the data is open. So you can read and write to it from other apps.

• 47:33Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 47:33David Pierce?

  Uh, and B, there are 10 sensor modules in that band and all 10 are being licensed to other developers.

• 47:40Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 47:40David Pierce?

  So if I'm Jawbone or like Samsung making the Gear VR, like I can take the- GPS chip, for instance, and put it in the headset and it just automatically starts writing data. And Microsoft says that's the most accurate one ever. Their whole big thing is like, we are collecting better data and doing better things with it.

• 47:59Nilay Patel?

  Interesting. I mean, I will say that like, I know this is a prototype, but this definitely feels like I am wearing it now. It definitely feels like I'm in a really, really high-tech prison.

• 48:08David Pierce?

  Yeah, that's a bunch of people have said that.

• 48:10Nilay Patel?

  Do you, I mean, like, it's like really tight and it's flat. It, do you ever see the movie The Island?

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:16Nilay Patel?

  That's.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  You're Steve Buscemi.

• 48:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, he is in that.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 48:21Nilay Patel?

  Who's the, it's Ewan McGregor.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:23Nilay Patel?

  And Scarlett Johansson.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  And Steve Buscemi.

• 48:25Nilay Patel?

  And Steve.

• 48:27David Pierce?

  Like, I feel like it's a safe bet at any time to be like, oh, Steve Buscemi's in that.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, sure. That sounds about right.

• 48:31Nilay Patel?

  That movie was really good.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Here, here's my question slash fear about this sort of thing. Is like, when you're talking about this, coming from the gaming world, I, I think of Kinect, which has uh, all the ambition in the world and the same uh spiel of it's gonna be able to do this, this, this, and this. Uh, and what's actually happening behind it is uh, not, hmm, trickery is maybe the right word. And that they're kind of finding shortcuts. It's like, you're not really figuring out if you should run before your meeting. We're figuring out something kind of close to it and then it's guessing. And I understand that's programming in general. But when I hear that sort of ambition, like your entire life is gonna be controlled by this prison bracelet that you wear.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  It, it sounds like a little too good to be true. I mean, I hope that's true. I would, I would love for something like that, but maybe it's just coming off that, that, that sounds.

• 49:28David Pierce?

  Yeah, no, it's totally fair. I mean, and it's like, they, they talked about uh, the Kinect, like some of the people working on health are the same people who have worked and worked on and talked about Kinect before. And it's like, they talk about, they're like, we're gonna integrate it with all these other things. And it's like, I've heard you say this so many times.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, remember when you could just hold up your skateboard and it would scan it and then you're skating on your TV?

• 49:47David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember that. Never happened.

• 49:50David Pierce?

  That was a neat idea that you didn't do. And then like eventually they'll just be like, actually you can buy the band without the sensors or the software.

• 49:56Nilay Patel?

  But that's the lesson here, right? The problem with the Kinect is it only works with their platform. And all of the development that, that, that one part of the Xbox One that would actually be useful for it is like the game side and games are only profitable if you make them cross-platform for both consoles or Microsoft pays you a ton of money for an exclusive, which they just didn't do very well in Xbox One, it seems.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  They did okay. They, this year they're, they have, they have more this year than they did last year that I think is okay.

• 50:25Nilay Patel?

  Right, but they, but this, but this year they're like, they're no, there's no more Kinect requirement.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 50:30Nilay Patel?

  Right, like they made it easy, like they just, they did the thing where they didn't, they made the weird new peripheral and they didn't make it open.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  And I think you're right there too, because the stuff people were making on Kinect on the side, if it had been truly open from the get-go, it could be a very different scene.

• 50:47David Pierce?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that's what this is. Like, I think this is, this is-

• 50:50Nilay Patel?

  This is them learning a lesson.

• 50:51David Pierce?

  Right.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Hopefully.

• 50:51David Pierce?

  And this is what Sachin Adella talks so much about. He's like, we want to be cloud and mobile, we want to be everywhere, we want to be behind everything, we want to be on every platform. And like, this is, this is that.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Because that's the advantage. That is your advantage if you're going up against Apple.

• 51:04David Pierce?

  Well, and, and for Microsoft, like part of their pitch, if I'm, you know, if I'm a guy building a, you know, if I'm building a device, I don't have to build a backend. I don't have to build a thing that collects and processes data. I can just dump it into Microsoft and let them handle that. Or if I'm building hardware, I can actually have new weird ideas about where to put the hardware and literally let Microsoft build all of the modules. Like, they've done all the hard work and they're just giving it away to people.

• 51:29Nilay Patel?

  I feel like- Yeah, but so if you have an iPhone or you have an Android phone.

• 51:33David Pierce?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:34Nilay Patel?

  So you buy the new piece of hardware and then you, it says-

• 51:37David Pierce?

  This, you mean?

• 51:38Nilay Patel?

  You buy, whatever. You buy something.

• 51:40David Pierce?

  Sure.

• 51:41Nilay Patel?

  You buy headphones.

• 51:41David Pierce?

  Like Jawbone is a partner.

• 51:43Nilay Patel?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 51:43David Pierce?

  So like, whatever the next Jawbone thing is.

• 51:45Nilay Patel?

  Uh, and they say, just download the Microsoft Health app on your Apple device. And it just dumps things into iOS 8 Health?

• 51:52David Pierce?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:54Nilay Patel?

  So which one?

• 51:55David Pierce?

  No, it doesn't dump things into iOS eight. I mean, I guess it might. I don't actually know how that works. To be honest, I gotta figure that out.

• 51:59Nilay Patel?

  Cause that's the weird part, right?

• 52:01David Pierce?

  Well, no, I mean.

• 52:01Nilay Patel?

  Which one are you supposed to use?

• 52:03David Pierce?

  What they're hoping for and betting on is that you're gonna use Microsoft and not iOS eight health. Because iOS eight health is a like a horrible mess of like just not really existing as anything.

• 52:16Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 52:17David Pierce?

  It's like a weird place you go to look at numbers. And Microsoft health is like, we're gonna do much more than that. We have plans and ideas and thoughts. And then on the flip side, they're like, we're everywhere. Like, most people don't just own one company's stuff, right? And like, you don't necessarily, you're not gonna necessarily own an iPhone for the next 10 years. But the value of something like Microsoft health is that it doesn't matter what device you own. And your data actually matters over, you know, weeks and months and years.

• 52:45Nilay Patel?

  So in Microsoft health, it's pulling from everything else that plugs into iOS eight health? And then you can just walk away with it?

• 52:50David Pierce?

  That's the idea, yeah.

• 52:52Nilay Patel?

  It feels like one of these really good ideas that at some point like misses a translation layer and everything gets complicated.

• 52:58David Pierce?

  Yeah, I mean, this is what like, this is the point where I stopped trusting Microsoft is to like nail the constant execution. And I asked them this, I was like, how do you avoid the PC problem where most people make really shitty stuff?

• 53:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 53:11David Pierce?

  That doesn't do the job well and gives you, A, in this case, bad data, which is worse.

• 53:16Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 53:16David Pierce?

  Because it's not, you can, and that's like their solution is to, you know, license the sensors. But it's like, well, people are still gonna write to your software with crappy hardware. And this is like, this is their big problem, right? Is they're like, we can be wide open and by being open, you open yourself up to everybody else's terrible ideas.

• 53:31Nilay Patel?

  But Apple has that same problem, right? I mean, their whole thing is like, look at the iPhone, it does all this stuff, like, everybody plug your weird sensors into it. And you can, you can get bad crap talking to iOS eight.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Then it becomes curation, you know? That's part of even going into the Apple Store versus going into Best Buy.

• 53:46Nilay Patel?

  I mean, I think it's like fascinating app, like literally Microsoft did this, Nintendo did a weird thing, like a wearable.

• 53:54David Pierce?

  Dude, health is the ballgame now. Like, it's, it's what everyone, I don't know. I mean, and even like I was talking to the, the number they quoted to me when we were talking about.

• 54:02Nilay Patel?

  It literally feels like the industry invented some other crap for people to buy.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  I think it's like the true future thing, right? Do you remember Gattaca? Wait, neither of you saw?

• 54:11Nilay Patel?

  No, I know, I hear what you're saying.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  But I think it's like that represents the future that's attainable. Like, we can't have hover cars, right? We can't have the pill food thing, silent, whatever. But we don't have a lot of those things in a real way that matches, I think, our expectations. But having like gobs and gobs of data and then afterwards doing, which I think is the Microsoft thing, that data actually telling you what to do.

• 54:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Once, when this stuff meets basically a good AI, I think is when it makes sense. When you have a robot that tells you every morning that, hey, you know what? You would probably like Brussels sprouts. You've never had them before, but they're what you need in your diet. And here's a really good recipe that is spicy because you like spicy food. So it'll make Brussels sprouts taste better. Like, when that is happening, all the data makes sense. But until then, it's just data. Does that make sense?

• 55:04Nilay Patel?

  No, I hear, like, that's a high-minded sort of like, the industry moved in this way because that's what we want.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  But I think that's what, I think, yeah, it's artificial one. They're forcing it, sure. But I think it's also just because that's the most doable thing right now. And I think a lot of tech companies realized it all at once.

• 55:23Nilay Patel?

  No, that's what I think, right? I'm saying that's like the positive spin, right? Like, that's, that's like the happy story.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  The negative spin is that they want to make money?

• 55:31Nilay Patel?

  The negative spin is that the smartphone ate every other product in the world. And Sony is like, crap, well, we're not selling digital cameras anymore or voice recorders or Walkman or whatever.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  We have to create something.

• 55:41Nilay Patel?

  What's the next thing we can make? And like Fitbit sold a handful of Fitbits and they're like, yep, that's the one. And they're just like, everybody is basically Samsung-ing out, trying to make health devices, including Apple, right? Their watch is basically a watch with a heart rate monitor on it right now.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:59Nilay Patel?

  And basically the same idea as everybody else's watch.

• 56:03David Pierce?

  And what's weird to me is that everybody admits that it's a niche product still. Like talking to Microsoft, they were like, I think the number they kept quoting was 190 million are going to be sold in the next five years. And like, that's a, that's a big number, but they, they still keep talking about, uh, you know, this is for a certain kind of fitness enthusiast. And like, there are lots of those people, but that that's not a mainstream product. And like, I, we might get there to the point where it's a mainstream product, but we might not. Like, I, it's a weird thing.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  I know what you mean. It feels to me like MP3 players back in the day, like way before Apple. Where there were all these weird variations on the MP3 player. You had like the ultra small one and you had one that was just an album and you had, you can play MP3s off of, uh, CDRs. And it wasn't until really, I think even the iPhone that like it really, really clicked as something new and different. The iPod Classic obviously was a tremendous success, but it felt like it figured out what was the other half of that equation. There's, it has to do more. It has to, to be like critical mass. It has to do everything.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  And that's what it feels like it's missing here. Maybe the iWatch is that, maybe just wearables that also do health is that. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is nobody knows yet. And I, I really don't think, I don't think it's a guarantee for any of them, including Apple.

• 57:26David Pierce?

  Yeah. I mean, like Apple's betting on the other, like one half being fitness and the other half being like.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:32David Pierce?

  Spotify and.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  I think looking at your.

• 57:35David Pierce?

  To each other with your.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Chris is not the answer. I think that, that feels crazy to me.

• 57:39Nilay Patel?

  So let me tell you, can I, let me tell the people a story. There is a thing that might be happening to you in your life, if you have an iPhone called, it's called air slothing.

• 57:52Nilay Patel?

  It's just a thing. It's, it came out of the verge. It's happened to me. It's happened to David. I've air sloth David multiple times.

• 58:00David Pierce?

  I don't want to talk about it.

• 58:01Nilay Patel?

  Uh, it just is a thing. It's what happens when you have airdrop on your phone and suddenly a picture of a sloth in an astronaut's uniform appears. That's just, it's just a thing. And I know for a fact that we've, a member of the Verge team has tried to air sloth multiple high ranking Apple executives at events. That's no one in this room.

• 58:23David Pierce?

  Don't tell anybody else, though.

• 58:24Nilay Patel?

  It's up.

• 58:24David Pierce?

  It's just the three of us and no one else knows.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Goodness, no one listens.

• 58:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. All the tens of thousands of people listening to this, do not tell Apple executives that they have been air slothed, even though they would obviously know because they saw a picture of a sloth.

• 58:38David Pierce?

  Wait, where are you going with this story?

• 58:40Nilay Patel?

  Here's what I'm, here's what's gonna happen. Heartbeat slothing is going to happen as soon as we all have Apple Watches. I'm going to troll everybody with my heartbeat constantly.

• 58:50David Pierce?

  No, you're not, because do you know what you're gonna do? Is you're gonna draw pictures of dicks.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:56David Pierce?

  You're gonna draw pictures of dicks. That's what, that's what the Apple Watch is for.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  It's so easy.

• 59:01David Pierce?

  The easiest way ever to draw pictures of dicks instead of another.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  It's a long D and a W. D and W.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  It's so easy.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  You've never thought about this?

• 59:13David Pierce?

  We all learned something today.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  You never thought about, it's just a long D and a W.

• 59:17Nilay Patel?

  I guess, I guess.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  I never even thought about it, but it is a long D and a W.

• 59:21Nilay Patel?

  Here's a thing that I'm wondering. It never occurred to me to come up with like a mnemonic or like an easier way.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  How will I draw them fingers? I'm doing the clay, I'm gonna draw a longer D and a W. To you.

• 59:34Nilay Patel?

  I didn't need instructions, I guess, it didn't, okay.

• 59:37David Pierce?

  Sure.

• 59:38Nilay Patel?

  I'm glad for all of you out there who are challenged at dong draws. Uh, that's a phrase.

• 59:43David Pierce?

  Which no one will be when the Apple Watch comes out.

• 59:45Nilay Patel?

  Fair. Alright, let's talk about one more thing.

• 59:47David Pierce?

  Okay.

• 59:48Nilay Patel?

  One more thing. Here's what it should be. I would like David to tell us all of his thoughts about the Taylor Swift record. Because I know what I think about it. So you had like feels.

• 59:58David Pierce?

  Sort of.

• 59:59Nilay Patel?

  It leaked, he, like David ran away into a room, he's like, I'm gonna live blog my experiences.

• 1:00:03David Pierce?

  No, so I did, so I went, I, I got in a comfy chair, turned the lights off. Uh, I put my computer on airplane mode, I was like, I do not want to be distracted during this whole process, this is very important.

• 1:00:13Nilay Patel?

  This process?

• 1:00:14David Pierce?

  This, and this was like, this was a thing for me.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  You're a creepy scientist.

• 1:00:18David Pierce?

  Yes. Like this, I was in a clean room.

• 1:00:21Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21David Pierce?

  I had latex gloves on.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  He's telling.

• 1:00:25David Pierce?

  It was a whole thing.

• 1:00:25Nilay Patel?

  Alright, alright.

• 1:00:26David Pierce?

  But, so then, I just, it, it didn't come, like I sat there to try.

• 1:00:34Nilay Patel?

  It's a long D and a W.

• 1:00:38David Pierce?

  Brought to you by the Apple Watch.

• 1:00:41David Pierce?

  But so it just like, I think Taylor Swift's album is terrific.

• 1:00:46Nilay Patel?

  It's boring.

• 1:00:47David Pierce?

  It is. I agree. I think it's, there are a bunch of really good songs on it. I really like it. I think she like tried super hard to make a cool eighties pop record to be one of the cool kids. And it worked and like it's, it's good. But Taylor Swift was like, her last album was like every kind of song in the world. And she was like, I'm Taylor Swift. I can do dubstep and then country because I'm Taylor Swift. And I was like, I love you, Taylor Swift, because you do everything. And that is like, good for you. Like you're 21 and you hear a song and you're like, I can make that better. And then you do, and that's cool. And this time she was like, what if I only made songs with the same beat? Where I didn't talk about boys, but I kind of talked about boys.

• 1:01:30David Pierce?

  And it's like, it's good. I like the first like five songs on the album. But it's also like, it's just, I'm, I'm over it. Like I keep forgetting that I have it on my computer to listen to now. Like I forget that it came out. Which is a weird thing that I did not expect to happen with this album.

• 1:01:46Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. I mean, like vox.com live blogged it. Like it was a moment. It was a moment for the world to buy a record.

• 1:01:53David Pierce?

  It's not just me. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is like, Taylor Swift is, if she is good at one thing, it is like building hype to be Taylor Swift.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Marketing is insane. Yeah. I mean, I want to know how many people were involved in that, getting that, the New York, uh, like all of New York involved. The Empire State Building, having that light show. But then she's like, the New York City ambassador? Like welcome ambassador?

• 1:02:15Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Did you see the video? There's like a website. She's like, what's a bodega? And it's like, I don't, you have to stop this, man. This is the worst, like, uh, it's like if Sex and the City made an infomercial.

• 1:02:27David Pierce?

  Wait, I would watch that.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Can we?

• 1:02:29David Pierce?

  Come on.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  1989.

• 1:02:31David Pierce?

  You would watch that? You would watch that.

• 1:02:34Nilay Patel?

  I would hate watching.

• 1:02:36David Pierce?

  It's like Miranda walking around all sad.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:02:39Nilay Patel?

  This is called a stoop. I mean, like, literally, that's the video. She's like, we don't call them porches here. We call them stoops. It's like, why are you talking this way? Like, no one was confused about that.

• 1:02:51David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Nilay Patel?

  Like, I don't know.

• 1:02:53David Pierce?

  I do kind of like the, like, Taylor Swift got a bunch of crap for Welcome to New York, which is like, her basically being like, New York is terrific and everybody's rich and wonderful and treats me friendly. And it's like, oh, no, this is Taylor Swift's New York. And like, I kind of love her for doing that. She's like, I don't care. Like, I-

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  I don't think she's like, I don't care. I think she's like, I didn't know.

• 1:03:13David Pierce?

  No, she got here and spent twenty million dollars on real estate in New York City and just has like a happy life where she skips through Central Park with her bodyguard behind her. And like, that's fine. And like, Taylor Swift, you, you do you, Taylor Swift.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Also-

• 1:03:26David Pierce?

  That's how I feel.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 1:03:28Nilay Patel?

  My computer has been waiting for Apple to deliver my iTunes match results for two years.

• 1:03:33David Pierce?

  Why do you use iTunes match?

• 1:03:35Nilay Patel?

  I paid for it one time. Now we're just waiting for that to happen. It did deliver the U2 album. Thanks, needed that. How do I, I know I bought, I drunk bought this record. This is a true, whose, whose computer is this?

• 1:03:49David Pierce?

  You guys, I just got invited to a Slack room in our Slack called Taylor Swift. And I, I'm, I am being-

• 1:03:56Nilay Patel?

  My case, Kelsey McKinney-

• 1:03:58David Pierce?

  Railed at for not, for being over nineteen eighty-nine.

• 1:04:02Nilay Patel?

  Docs the room.

• 1:04:03David Pierce?

  Now, I'm not gonna dox the room.

• 1:04:03Nilay Patel?

  The media is self-doxing today.

• 1:04:04David Pierce?

  This is like the most important room that I am in.

• 1:04:07Nilay Patel?

  The media is self-doxing all over the place today. Did you see that?

• 1:04:10David Pierce?

  Yeah, I did see that.

• 1:04:11Nilay Patel?

  First look media, the people at Glenn Garmal and The Intercept, they like, railed on their own, competing, their own sister public, self-docs, dude. Get in the game.

• 1:04:19David Pierce?

  Listen, man, I got, I can't do it. It's too important. It's too important.

• 1:04:24Nilay Patel?

  Well, they're mad at you, though.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  I have one question.

• 1:04:27David Pierce?

  It's a good album. Style is the second best song that Taylor Swift has ever done.

• 1:04:33Nilay Patel?

  I don't know. I would, I want to listen to it, but I'm waiting for Apple to deliver my iTunes-

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Why is it called nineteen eighty-nine?

• 1:04:38David Pierce?

  Because that's the year she was born. And it's also like-

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  It's the perfect year because-

• 1:04:42David Pierce?

  Because the album, I mean, the album is, is clearly attempting to sound like it was made in nineteen eighty-nine.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  But even beyond that, it's like something that to someone in the eight, who was born in the eighties, sounds nostalgic. And to someone who was born in the nineties, sounds like- Like 80s culture. It feels like it's like right in that sweet spot.

• 1:05:01Nilay Patel?

  So where is it?

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Am I crazy?

• 1:05:03Nilay Patel?

  I guess.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  It feels like it's like a year that's like.

• 1:05:08David Pierce?

  I mean, this to me, the actual thing about this album is, uh, like, I, what I wish she had done was kinda what she started to do, which was like basically release a single a week.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:05:17David Pierce?

  And as a collection of songs, it's better than like listening to the album front to back.

• 1:05:22Nilay Patel?

  Where is this record on my computer? iTunes says.

• 1:05:27Nilay Patel?

  Here's, just, this is the worst program.

• 1:05:30David Pierce?

  Yes. iTunes is awful.

• 1:05:32Nilay Patel?

  Like literally the empire on this.

• 1:05:34David Pierce?

  First time.

• 1:05:35Nilay Patel?

  This is like if you built a castle, right? You're like, here's my new cat. I came back to Apple. I built this.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  This metaphor is gonna go great.

• 1:05:41Nilay Patel?

  I, and this was their castle. It was their fortress.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45Nilay Patel?

  This, this program saved Apple.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:05:48Nilay Patel?

  And now it's a crumbling ruin and they're like, no, no, no. iTunes, keep using it. It's garbage. Sorry, I'm very mad about this. I just wanna listen to it.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  I use Winamp.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  I wish I didn't.

• 1:06:01Nilay Patel?

  There, I'm.

• 1:06:02David Pierce?

  Foo bar 2000, guys.

• 1:06:03Nilay Patel?

  Have you heard, did you guys do the title test? Chris was very, title's the new high quality streaming service like 20 months.

• 1:06:09David Pierce?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Nilay Patel?

  Did he make you do it?

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, I have great ears.

• 1:06:12David Pierce?

  Yeah, I passed. We're all very proud of you.

• 1:06:15Nilay Patel?

  Cool humble brag, Chris.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Can't hear anything.

• 1:06:18Nilay Patel?

  I can't.

• 1:06:20Nilay Patel?

  I just.

• 1:06:23Nilay Patel?

  Uh, now make him this face.

• 1:06:29Nilay Patel?

  Oh, man, whatever.

• 1:06:30David Pierce?

  It's good. You like it?

• 1:06:31Nilay Patel?

  She's, uh, this. I'd love to listen to the record, which I purchased, which I'm not allowed to listen to.

• 1:06:36David Pierce?

  The, the funny thing about iTunes is like, I've opened iTunes two times in the last 12 months. One was to download Beyonce's album and one was to download Taylor Swift's album. And that's it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Aren't you buy like a series?

• 1:06:45Nilay Patel?

  I'm literally getting side channels now telling me that 1989 is, I mean, we have irritated our entire company.

• 1:06:50David Pierce?

  Yeah, everybody's, everybody's real mad.

• 1:06:51Nilay Patel?

  You're all, okay, whatever.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  They don't have to have a good taste. They can still work here.

• 1:06:55David Pierce?

  Listen, this is awful. Like, I, like, it's not the album. I don't know what the album's like, cause I can't listen to it.

• 1:07:02Nilay Patel?

  But the U2 album is here for me. By the way, the progress bar for iTunes match has now gone from full and stuck to three quarters full and stuck.

• 1:07:12Nilay Patel?

  Okay.

• 1:07:13David Pierce?

  Just, I mean, this is what's gonna make your computer like kernel panic and explode. It's just having iTunes.

• 1:07:19Nilay Patel?

  iTunes just crashed.

• 1:07:22Nilay Patel?

  Alright, that was the Vergecast. I don't know how we listen to music now in 2014, but I'm pretty sure it's Googling for it on YouTube. That's a fact. I think that's real.

• 1:07:32David Pierce?

  Yep.

• 1:07:32Nilay Patel?

  It's real for you. Alright, that was our show. There's a bunch of stuff I'm supposed to say at the end of the show. Let's see if I can remember it all.

• 1:07:41Nilay Patel?

  Rate and review us on iTunes is, I believe, the most important thing. So, open the worst program on your computer, which is almost certainly how you get this podcast.

• 1:07:48David Pierce?

  And before it crashes.

• 1:07:49Nilay Patel?

  Or the podcast app on your iPhone, or any number of competing podcast apps on Android where innovation reigns supreme. And then find a place to tell us that we're good at stuff. And then do that. So that's number one. Just do that thing.

• 1:08:05David Pierce?

  And if you hate us, tell [email protected].

• 1:08:08Nilay Patel?

  Pick up your phone, throw it across the room, and look, just watch out for murderers.

• 1:08:13David Pierce?

  Make your exit strategy right now.

• 1:08:16Nilay Patel?

  That should be...

• 1:08:17David Pierce?

  Where will you hide?

• 1:08:18Nilay Patel?

  If you hate us, you lasted this long.

• 1:08:22Nilay Patel?

  Why are you snapping?

• 1:08:26Nilay Patel?

  Alright, Chris, here's... I've been very happy to have you come and join the Verge team and be on our show.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Don't say you don't like Steve Winwood.

• 1:08:36Nilay Patel?

  I have extremely, uh, medium feelings about Steve Winwood. But I know that I was not happy with how you dance.

• 1:08:46David Pierce?

  Wait, can I just, can I just say something that I just learned? Chris Plant invented dad dancing. This is a thing that I'm confident in.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  I think it's more of a mom dance, I'm not sure.

• 1:08:58David Pierce?

  It's like dad face mom dance.

• 1:09:00Nilay Patel?

  I don't...

• 1:09:01David Pierce?

  You have to be like a little too proud of yourself.

• 1:09:03Nilay Patel?

  You can, you can tell Chris about his dancing because he's @plant on Twitter.

• 1:09:08David Pierce?

  Sure.

• 1:09:09Nilay Patel?

  David is PierceDavid. I'm Reckless. You can go into the post and leave a comment. You can send us an email to any one of a variety of email addresses that may or may not work. Because Google's enterprise infrastructure is garbage. Uh, we, what else?

• 1:09:23David Pierce?

  We're on Facebook.

• 1:09:24Nilay Patel?

  We're on Facebook. You should like us on Facebook. We're very close to 10 million likes.

• 1:09:27David Pierce?

  One million.

• 1:09:28Nilay Patel?

  One million.

• 1:09:28David Pierce?

  Easy, Patel.

• 1:09:29Nilay Patel?

  God.

• 1:09:29David Pierce?

  Easy.

• 1:09:30Nilay Patel?

  Can nine million more of you like us on Facebook? No, we're very close to 1 million likes on Facebook. I know Sam's very excited about that.

• 1:09:37David Pierce?

  Yeah, and it's our third birthday in 48 hours, so we wanna get to... Sam is very excited about getting to a million before our birthday.

• 1:09:45Nilay Patel?

  10,000 people, just get on it.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  I just wanna give one shout out to Vox-Taylor-Swift, a Slack room. They recognize that I'm a great dancer and I wanna say that I love all of you.

• 1:09:58Nilay Patel?

  She gave a shout out to a Slack room.

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  Welcome to the future, it's tech.

• 1:10:03Nilay Patel?

  All right, well...

• 1:10:04David Pierce?

  Welcome to the future, it's tech. That's the Verge's tagline right there.

• 1:10:08Nilay Patel?

  Well, we've got real brand strategy conversations to have now. That was our show. I'm so glad you listened. It's what we do. I don't, I don't know why we continue to do it, but many of you seem to like it and we'll be here dancing for you like monkeys.

• 1:10:21David Pierce?

  They listen. Do they like it as different? They listen?

• 1:10:26Nilay Patel?

  I have a lot of thoughts about hatefaving as an action. We actually had a really, in our, you know, we have a weekly reporter story meeting, which both of you missed today, by the way.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Nobody invited me.

• 1:10:37Nilay Patel?

  It's because email migration. But we have a week...

• 1:10:41David Pierce?

  I was learning what a V up is.

• 1:10:42Nilay Patel?

  All of our reporters like hang out and we have a story meeting every week. And we were talking about hatefaving. Addie made the point that a hatefave doesn't actually do what you want it to do because it, it gives you something. So if you wanna do something negative, if you wanna express hate, you have to take something away. But a hatefave is like a contradiction in terms because you give someone a fave.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  I've never hatefaved.

• 1:11:01David Pierce?

  I, I almost exclusively hatefave.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Where you fave something ironic?

• 1:11:05David Pierce?

  Or my two moves are I either hatefave or I just write back and just say "BURN" in all caps. Which is pretty good.

• 1:11:15Nilay Patel?

  Uh, the master of hate-faving our team is Casey Newton. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, the hate-faving is the thing I do. So hate-fave us, that's fine because Cruz us faves. So just whatever you want to do, that's cool. Just as long as it gives us something and doesn't take anything away. Unless it's Chris Plant's credit card number, which is really available.

• 1:11:31David Pierce?

  Which is all yours.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  All yours.

• 1:11:33Nilay Patel?

  Alright, that was our show.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  342.

• 1:11:34Nilay Patel?

  As always.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Sorry. Just gonna give everybody my credit card number.

• 1:11:38David Pierce?

  Hey, go on.

• 1:11:39Nilay Patel?

  Uh, as always, we can neither begin nor end the show cleanly or well, so this will be our abrupt ending.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 1:11:47Nilay Patel?

  Come on, man.