Sam from the Future

The lineup is turned on its head this week as Joanna Stern joins Nilay Patel and Chris Plante, and Chris Ziegler takes the hype reins while Sam is absent. These great minds reflect on this week's Apple event, Star Wars, and the upcoming Frozen sequel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Nilay Patel?

  Hello, welcome to The Vergecast for the week of March 9. This is a show about laptop computers in all of their shapes and sizes. It is not a show about whatever Chris Plant says it's about. No?

• 0:20Speaker 01

  You were doing really well.

• 0:21Nilay Patel?

  I was doing really well.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  You actually had an intro.

• 0:23Nilay Patel?

  It usually doesn't happen that way. Hello, I am Neelai Patel.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  I am Joanna Stern.

• 0:28Nilay Patel?

  Oh, what a surprise. Nobody expected that to happen. Usually you save the guest for the last, the last part.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  But not today.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, you didn't even call me a special guest.

• 0:35Nilay Patel?

  And I call you a special guest. Anyway, Joanna Stern is here from The Wall Street Journal. She's been complaining about her headphones nonstop.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  It bothers me. All I hear is mouth noises.

• 0:45Nilay Patel?

  We have, yeah. That is the nature of listening to other people speak.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  No, it's so...

• 0:51Speaker 01

  I like to think I'm a Broadway star.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  There we go, I just hear it. I hear your lips. Oh, God. Oh, I can't deal with that.

• 0:56Nilay Patel?

  Chris looks like an insect when he does it.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Oh, hi, I'm Chris Plant.

• 0:58Nilay Patel?

  Chris Plant is here. And here's, here's actually the real news of the day. Sam Sheffer is at South by Southwest. But, so we have, we have replaced him with Sam from the future. Old Sam, Chris Ziegler, who is, I will say, behind a vastly upgraded... You can't see it, I know, most people are listening. Usually Sam sits in what I, what I like to think of as a middle school principal's office.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  It does look like that.

• 1:25Nilay Patel?

  Chris is in a middle school principal's office from the future.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  I left a photo of Sam in the back.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  I never thought about how much time and energy we put into a set that most people enjoy the show can't see.

• 1:35Nilay Patel?

  It's wonderful.

• 1:36Speaker 03

  I'm here for the teens, by the way.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39Nilay Patel?

  So, go.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  You're really millennial today.

• 1:41Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  This is Warby Parker's.

• 1:43Nilay Patel?

  Uh, it's, yeah, Chris is wearing glasses. He's got a, what's that, a Henley? Is that what that shirt is called? Is that, that type of shirt?

• 1:49Speaker 03

  It's a Don Henley.

• 1:51Nilay Patel?

  Chris is wearing Don, Chris is wearing Don Henley. It's, uh, it's really awkward, actually. And it's probably for the best that you can't see it. Uh, so an enormous amount of news this week. I asked Joanna to be here, uh, because earlier this week, we were at an event together where, uh, like most events that we go to together, uh, she spurned me in the name of competition, just throwing fierce elbows to get me out of the way to publish pictures in her print newspaper as fast as possible. Uh, but no, it was a big Apple event.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  I wanted to play Don Henley.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  You can hear the legal bill coming.

• 2:27Nilay Patel?

  No, you know, I watched Interstellar on the plane home.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:30Nilay Patel?

  Last night, you know, they're on the planet and one hour on the planet is seven years at Earth.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  I haven't seen it, so you spoiled it.

• 2:35Nilay Patel?

  That's like, that's in the trailer.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 2:37Nilay Patel?

  But every second of Don Henley is thousands of dollars in legal fees. You can just hear them over time. It's a good movie.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  The lyrics are here.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  You know what I wish I had right now? My Apple Watch to tell the lyrics.

• 2:48Nilay Patel?

  Oh, God.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:49Nilay Patel?

  Let's just get into the game.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  That was, I thought, the worst part of the entire presentation.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  The entire Apple Watch.

• 2:54Nilay Patel?

  I think if you read.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Who would want their lyrics on their wrist?

• 2:57Nilay Patel?

  Right, so let's just, let's just get into it. So it's the event.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Okay, it's the event.

• 3:01Nilay Patel?

  The event. Joanna, set the scene. You're there. What do you do at those events?

• 3:06Speaker 02

  I was there with my selfie stick and I was really just, I'm there really just for socializing. It feels like Twitter in real life, so that's what I was there for.

• 3:13Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, the whole tech press is there. They're just doing it.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm just there to schmooze.

• 3:17Nilay Patel?

  They are, like Walt Mossberg just came up to us and what is happening?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  He's back in a bar now.

• 3:22Nilay Patel?

  The video wall behind Chris is now a bar that is zooming in and out through time.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Hashtag teams.

• 3:27Nilay Patel?

  But no, we're, you know, we get there early. We like stand in the big line and then you, it's, all these companies, they don't understand what the press is there to do.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Which is schmooze.

• 3:36Nilay Patel?

  No, that's what they think we're there to do.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Oh, we're not?

• 3:39Nilay Patel?

  We're there, well, no, no, no. Like, we are there, you might remember this from your days at The Verge, we are there to cover the event.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, no, I didn't, I didn't do any work all day.

• 3:50Nilay Patel?

  Not to, not to like, no, but Apple wants you to like go in, you can stand in a line and you go in an area and there's a coffee and bagels and they want you to like eat the coffee and bagels.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  I did not eat any coffee or bagels.

• 3:59Nilay Patel?

  No one does. Most people just like hover by the door, waiting to go inside and the door's open and there's more.

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:05Nilay Patel?

  Jabbing and punching.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:07Nilay Patel?

  And then they get released again into like a fake Apple store, basically. And there's more like coffee and bagels and schmooze time and, but there's also more like biting and scratching and clawing and it's just like, stop.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  I haven't, no, I ate, I ate the new MacBook Air. The new MacBook, sorry.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 4:24Nilay Patel?

  It was delicious.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Actually, if you do watch my video, I ate over the keyboard.

• 4:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I made a quick joke, which they, Apple did not think was so funny because they saw me eating over their new keyboard and they were like, oh, what are you doing? And I was like, it's just, it's just for fun.

• 4:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. You don't understand, I tell jokes on videos.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  It's gonna be good.

• 4:40Nilay Patel?

  This is better than the time I lit, I lit the router on fire.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  I didn't, oh, no, no, the background was on fire.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  I just imagined you as Jimi Hendrix being like, wow.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I mean, um, the presentation, I, I, I would say the most exciting part of the presentation was probably when Christy Churlington came out. Um, yeah, that's a lie. I don't know. That was probably the low, the lyrics on the phone, the lyrics on your watch and when she came out were the, the two points where I said, not sure Apple knows what's going on.

• 5:14Nilay Patel?

  So fair or unfair here, and I will say, I'm sure a lot of people will think my expectations going in were unfair, but here's what I anticipated Apple would do. Uh, one, I thought they would put out a MacBook at a thousand dollars.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  We know you did. We're going to get to that. We're not there yet.

• 5:28Nilay Patel?

  Eventually. Um, but most of what I thought they would do was provide a compelling use case for the watch. Right? That's the thing that they didn't do at the previous event. They've had six months of basically tech press confusion. Like, why would you buy this watch? Why are these prices be so high? Are they going to be as high as we think they are? Just endless speculation about what they'll do at the second event. They came out at the event on Monday and basically rehashed the first event with some like added, and I'm, we'll say this, Samsung-esque touches to their presentation.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  I agree. I do, I do have to say.

• 6:02Nilay Patel?

  Including bringing out like a supermodel who's like doing a charity run in Africa to be like, couldn't do this without my watch.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:08Nilay Patel?

  And it's like, you definitely.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  No, no, my really, and she didn't even have, she didn't even have the sport watch. That's the worst part about it. She had like the high-end $600 or $700 watch in Tanzania.

• 6:19Nilay Patel?

  Right. It was just a very odd, super cringeworthy moment.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Was that she said she needed the watch when she's running with like 510s and the Indians aren't wearing the watch?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  No, exactly.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  And did it just fine.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  There was a serious gap in between what we were looking at there.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and also like.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  The whole, the whole press conference was just, the, the wealth gap was.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Absolutely.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  It was.

• 6:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Chris wrote a thing.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Downright uncomfortable.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you start with a gold laptop that has essentially less features than what I have here.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Well, that's necessary.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Sure, because you have to keep thinning it because.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Right. Well, gold.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  We're a gold and a thin culture. It's the two things we love. Uh, and then you pull on a supermodel running with the high-end watch, not even the sports watch.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  It's just like every layer is like increased disbelief in what is happening here.

• 7:07Nilay Patel?

  So the, here's the thing.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  But we did open with shots of China.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Because that's where they're gonna make all their money.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 7:14Nilay Patel?

  So you start with, they started with what, an iPhone update?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  They started, right.

• 7:19Nilay Patel?

  They did like very quick like retail store update, like we're opening more stores.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  No, Apple, uh, Apple TV.

• 7:24Nilay Patel?

  Oh, yeah, the Apple TV, HBO what now came to the Apple, I'm pointing at Chris because he actually remembers.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  HBO Now.

• 7:31Nilay Patel?

  We always have this problem, right? Like I go to the events.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  I have no idea what happens.

• 7:34Nilay Patel?

  I have no idea what happened.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  I'm like, what the fuck just happened?

• 7:36Nilay Patel?

  But Chris and Thomas Ricker run the news here, so I assume Chris knows.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  HBO Now, that's right. Uh, they reduced the price of the, the Apple TV from 99 to 69 dollars.

• 7:44Nilay Patel?

  Which I think they had to do because of Roku and all the streaming stick competitors.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  A lot of price pressure, yep.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  It's also like four years old now.

• 7:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Three years old.

• 7:51Nilay Patel?

  So, you know, my belief is that they can't, they, they have to go down the watch road because the TV is too hard, right? Like actually building an Apple TV is too hard and HBO Now is like, that is the sort of thing they can do. They can spend a money on a big exclusive with one provider around Game of Thrones. So you'll wanna go buy an, an Apple TV. But they still haven't solved that product category. Like that's still a hobby. The watch is not a hobby at all, right? It's the new flagship product. Like we've had two events about it now. Um, so they go into the, the watch and they basically re, they call Kevin Lynch on stage and they rehash this demo of all the things we already can, we already know can do, except with like a few new apps.

• 8:31Nilay Patel?

  But the apps are really familiar if you've looked at any other smartwatch ever. So there's like an Uber app that calls an Uber, but it's still connected to your phone. There's the, the Starwood Hotels app.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, Starwood is always making a huge push on these apps. I've never used their, their app and I'm a Starwood-er.

• 8:45Nilay Patel?

  The last thing I wanna do in a strange city is tie my lodging to a battery that could die.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's a good point.

• 8:54Nilay Patel?

  I don't, like that is what terrifies me. Like if this watch dies, I will sleep on the street tonight.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  And it dies at the point where you'd be going home.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Your phone is your backup. Like, and, and that was kind of a little bit of the theme, which was like, this can do almost all the things your phone can do. And

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yet they were making a point about saying like, we're not shrinking the phone to put on your wrist.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I thought, I, I came away the same way. I'm like, this thing does everything. Do I want it to do any of these things?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  And I don't have an answer to that. I know in my short time, you know, wearing it in the hands-on Apple Store room, um, I, I was kinda getting a feel of how it works. I, I did not, um... Really get a feel of how quickly you can access things. That to me is the big thing that when the review time comes, how quickly can you get to some of those features you really want?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have a big theory, and I know I always lean on games because it's where I come from, but I believe firmly that games are what helped establish the App Store. I mean, you literally just have to look at the sales. And I'm constantly, I guess dismayed when I see these early events on an item that you're buying that is essentially frivolous. Like, it just doesn't have the software yet to give it real purpose. And that's the time when games matter most, because they get people excited, they have novelty, they're easy to show to a friend. That's when you should have games. And for it not to be represented at all, when it is the, essentially, like, top of the App Store constantly, was insane to me.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  What would we do with the watch with games?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  That's how you get people to find stuff out.

• 10:24Nilay Patel?

  But so you can't. So right now, the apps are just like Windows back to iPhone.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Sure. Well, here's a perfect example, right? So, well, when Zynga was really popular, people had to check their farms like every 20 minutes to just collect whatever poop, I guess.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  I still do that.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that would be a great thing.

• 10:42Nilay Patel?

  Zynga looks very skeptical. Yeah, hype check the watch so far.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  The Jannison text is not correct. I'm gonna need you to re-hype me.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  How does it work?

• 10:52Nilay Patel?

  It's hype check blank.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Oh, hype check Farmville.

• 10:55Nilay Patel?

  There you go.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Wow, he really is living up to Sam. But like, those games.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  We need to eliminate this position.

• 11:04Nilay Patel?

  No, trust me. You're gonna get in the groove. Both of you are gonna figure this out. I got two newbie hype checkers.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Can we just have Chris at the table? Why is Chris just not at the table?

• 11:13Nilay Patel?

  It actually, I will say, would make sense if Chris was at the table, but for some reason to me, it makes perfect sense that Sam is usually over there.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  That does seem to make sense, in my mind, but not Chris. Chris, you earned a spot at the table.

• 11:27Nilay Patel?

  You made it.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  You are in the boardroom.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  I have my big bureau here. I'm in front of the video wall. They're showing a bar.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  You have rights.

• 11:35Nilay Patel?

  Chris, so wait, wait. You were watching this event from afar. Hype check the Apple Watch event.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  So Casey and I were talking about it right after the event and we kinda came away with the same impression, I think, that you did too, which is that it really dragged in parts. The Kevin Lynch part was like, yo, just get on with it.

• 11:54Nilay Patel?

  Dude, there was a moment with Kevin Lynch when he was demonstrating Apple Pay and it was, the watches were bolted down so he could use them. So he was like, you wouldn't really do it like this. You'd wave the watch, but I can't do that. So he just waved a credit card machine at the watch. And I was like, this is your whole life. Like, it's adorable, but it's totally backwards.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  You moved from making Adobe Flash, one of the worst products on the planet, to waving a credit card machine at a watch. That's your life.

• 12:20Nilay Patel?

  He was so like, apologetic isn't the right word. He just knew it was like, wrong. He was like, you know, and then you just, you just simply pay. And then he like fishes at this credit card machine, like waves it over the watch. And it was just, this is why your demo's broken. Like, you can't show anyone this product because it's so personal. And then everything about it is so complicated.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Right. The personal thing does strike me and maybe that is part of their strategy in a way. Just tell people, it's the opposite of the iPhone and the iPad intros, right? Tell people everything you can do with this thing and then they can figure it out.

• 12:59Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Right? Like in that, whereas like with the iPhone and the iPad, we get these very structured things. Like, it's great for taking photos. We're gonna talk about that and why it's so much better than everything else. Where it's great for doing this. And those things, they usually are very convincing at. Versus this was like, everything. I mean, to me, that point when they showed the songs, what is it?

• 13:21Nilay Patel?

  Shazam.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Shazam. Why would I want that?

• 13:23Nilay Patel?

  It's this whole story, right? It's this long narrative that they told, which again, classic Microsoft/Samsung bad presentation move. Like, we've got all of these features. We need to explain to you why they're useful. We're gonna make up a story. And the story is like, I wake up in the morning and then I went for a run and then I got on a plane and I landed in a city and I checked into my hotel. And you know, sometimes you walk into a hotel and a song is playing and you're like, I wanna know what that song is. Which, by the way, never has happened to anyone. No one has ever walked into a hotel and been like, man, I wonder what wonderful song this is.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  I mean, but if they do, then the only feature you do want is the, is the, what is the name of the app again? Shazam. Why can't I remember that? The Shazam to just tell you the name of it, not the full lyrics.

• 14:06Nilay Patel?

  Right. So he goes in the hotel room and he's like, and then the song is playing. It was like, it was, seriously, it was like Steely Dan. So like the idea that you're walking into a W and the W is playing Steely Dan at you, zero percent accurate.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it's all drum and bass in a W.

• 14:20Nilay Patel?

  It's no joke. Like, it's usually if you walk into a room at the W and you're like, I wonder where I can get some fucking X.

• 14:26Nilay Patel?

  This room is purple and they're playing house.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  I mean, if it's Steely Dan remix, that's one thing, but.

• 14:34Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, so he like pushes the button on the watch and then like the lyrics show up in time with the music. And then bizarrely, thunderous applause.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  It was not me.

• 14:44Nilay Patel?

  It was, it was not.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  I was not clapping.

• 14:45Nilay Patel?

  Casey and I were like looking at each other, we're like, how do we describe this moment?

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:49Nilay Patel?

  Like, people are applauding for Tiny Shazam.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  They also did the event out of order, I thought. And we actually, so in the, in the post show, in the post-event show, Verge Live that we did, Ross and I restructured the order that we talked about things in because we were like, they didn't do it in the right order. We're gonna do it in the right order, which is, move from the least exciting to the most exciting slash newest announcement. The MacBook stole that show and they should have finished with that.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Oh, you're crazy. No, no, no, you're crazy. You're crazy.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 15:16Nilay Patel?

  Why, why crazy?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Because I think they knew what was coming was a colossal dud. And they started big, hoping that you'd have residual hype bleed into it. If you started on that, on all that boring Apple Watch stuff, I, I mean, people would have been like, yeah, the MacBook looks good. The Apple Watch looks horrible. And now people are walking in being like, the Apple Watch, you know, whatever.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  I don't think the Apple Watch looked horrible, by the way. I think they just didn't have their messaging right.

• 15:44Nilay Patel?

  Okay, so you, I think this is where you and I, so the last thing, the last piece of news we need to get out there is when they revealed all the prices, right?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:51Nilay Patel?

  And so the prices for the 38 millimeter, the tiny, which is a tiny watch. It's actually very small, in my opinion.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  It looks great on me.

• 15:59Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's, but it's like small. That's 349.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  But it looks good on me and that's all that matters.

• 16:03Nilay Patel?

  And you're gonna get, I'm gonna buy you a $10,000 watch.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  Finally, I'm, I want the rose gold one. I don't understand. Why is all this?

• 16:11Nilay Patel?

  What? That's a, that's the name of a gold.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  It's a gold.

• 16:14Nilay Patel?

  But it's Apple Gold, so it's special.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  My engagement ring is rose gold.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  You know, it's a beautiful gold.

• 16:17Nilay Patel?

  Same, so they do the prices. So it starts at 349.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  We need a gold.

• 16:20Nilay Patel?

  The slightly bigger sport is like 399. Then there's a crazy array of stuff in the middle from like 549 to like 1100 dollars. All depending on like what band you want, right? Cause the watch itself is the same and then the bands are like a variety of different prices.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:38Nilay Patel?

  So the one I want, the black stainless steel, only comes the black stainless steel band, which means I have to pay a thousand dollars.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  1100.

• 16:46Nilay Patel?

  1100.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  That one's 1099, yep.

• 16:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and that's like the hottest one.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 16:50Nilay Patel?

  The black stainless steel one.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that looks cool.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  But to be perfectly clear.

• 16:53Nilay Patel?

  1100.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  To be perfectly clear, if you got.

• 16:56Nilay Patel?

  That's ridiculously expensive.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  It is. If you got, if you got the stainless 360. You got the stainless 360, which is essentially the same watch in many respects. You're paying 299 dollars, I think. That's a big premium.

• 17:11Nilay Patel?

  Uh, for casing. And then, and then, and then obviously the addition, which was made of like, you know, space age gold that Apple invented on the moon. Uh, which is like literally starts at 10K and goes up to like 17.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:25Nilay Patel?

  And then they ran this video, like just to hammer home how much you're paying for how much it looks, or for what it looks like, where the interface of the watch is doing all the stuff and just the casing is changing.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:38Nilay Patel?

  And it's like, yes, it doesn't matter how much you pay, we'll always do the same thing.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Right. That is the interesting thing to me.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  But you don't want to be the plebe with the Ion X glass.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  You, you want, you want Sapphire.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  I like, have wanted to barf so many times through all of this.

• 17:52Nilay Patel?

  Cause you're the plebe with the Ion X glass, dude.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I'll have to be. And like, and, and that's like what bums me out, like everything about this. The problem is I don't have anything against fashion or expensive, nice things. What bums me out about this is iPhones are already a class item in like high schools everywhere. And the idea of iPhones and this being like a mandatory thing for teenagers and teenagers judging each other off of it is just like mental torture. But anyway, thi- this circles back to the one point that I wanted to make about the apps and stuff, and why I think it is, as they presented it, bad leaning towards horrible, is, you're right, I don't think you need any apps that are the apps that are on your phone, because there's a reason we have the phone, and the phone's already almost too

• 18:37Speaker 01

  small for that, as everyone who bought the iPhone Plus Notes.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  I know.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  So, what you can do with it, and the one-

• 18:44Nilay Patel?

  You have a regular 6?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  You have a regular 6.

• 18:46Nilay Patel?

  Is it too small?

• 18:47Speaker 02

  No, it's perfect size for me, but I think it's really, I'm gonna, you're gonna make a point, and then I'm gonna make one too.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  But the one thing that everybody loved about when they first announced the Apple Watch was that you could draw little pictures, and you could get heartbeats. That was the thing that like, my Twitter blew up.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Really?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Because normals like those things, because normals love being in contact with people. That's why all the biggest apps-

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Are messaging apps. So to me, what you do with this is, apps that are either somehow messaging, I mean if you had a small camera and that, and you were able to do Snapchat directly into that, whenever you're doing anything-

• 19:16Speaker 02

  That sounds good night here.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  That would be, oh my gosh, teens would freak out, because you wouldn't have to get your phone, you're in school-

• 19:21Nilay Patel?

  Hype check, watch Snapchat.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Are constantly looking at your Snapchat.

• 19:23Nilay Patel?

  Hype? Is that the right answer? I don't know how this works, I'm sorry.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:28Nilay Patel?

  Chris is like, "I'm usually on the other side."

• 19:29Speaker 01

  But just games that are like, ultra-simple social games, that kids can be playing all the time, those are the things that are gonna blow up, or-

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Social messaging, because-

• 19:40Speaker 02

  I agree with you on the messaging, and, and the emoticon, the emoji, you can change them, those are, it's a really cool thing, okay?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Those are, those are interesting.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  I'm into them.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  But like, anything that's just doing what my phone does, I just, I don't-

• 19:52Speaker 02

  I don't know, I think the doodle thing is like, really, what is that about?

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, I, that's all, I want that heartbeat, non-stop.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  We are like, yin and yang here.

• 20:01Nilay Patel?

  It's all fine, right?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Somebody has to represent the teens of Sam.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  You really are, you really are. I like your brain, I like where your brain is going.

• 20:09Nilay Patel?

  No, here's the problem, is that so valuable that you will wear this thing all the time?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  If you're a teenager, it is. And that's why you go for them.

• 20:16Nilay Patel?

  Maybe, maybe that's true.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  To me, there's two things that I personally am very excited about with the watch. One is notifications. I, it, to me, it seems like a huge mess and we will have to find that out. I really still have no idea how it works versus like with, in the app, you've got to set up through the, the app notifications. You also have to set up through the Apple Watch notifications.

• 20:37Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's all.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  That all seems way too complicated and my guess is that it probably is going to be way too complicated. But I'm excited about something that can put notifications on my wrist in a smart way. Android Wear hasn't done that yet. Maybe this is going to do that in a little bit of a better way with VIP and stuff like that. That remains to be seen. The second thing I'm, I'm actually excited to see if they can do a decent job at is the fitness stuff. Again, what we saw at the event was that this actually doesn't do much more than a regular fitness band.

• 21:04Nilay Patel?

  That was actually the Christy Turlington thing was like, it could be a Garmin video.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Right. It could be Garmin. It definitely, like Fitbit, I, I, I'm wondering if basically it just does the same exact thing as the, as the Fitbit that I've been wearing for the last two months.

• 21:19Nilay Patel?

  Yep.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  So those are the two things for me that I feel like, okay, these, if they can do these two things well, I'd wear this thing.

• 21:26Nilay Patel?

  But all the time? Because the thing about a communications.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Why not all the time?

• 21:29Nilay Patel?

  Cause I, I don't wear my watch all the time. Like my actual watch that I'm wearing right now. I take it off throughout the day, like several times.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:37Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like, the thing about a communications device is that either you need to have it with you all the time, or you need to be able to check it, or it needs to be an inbox.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:46Nilay Patel?

  And like, I don't see how the Apple Watch, isn't it like?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  I probably would wear it all the time.

• 21:51Nilay Patel?

  You receive several heartbeats. Five heartbeats were received today.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I'm, we're not, we're, we're abnormal, but I carry around my phone in my hand pretty much all day long. Everywhere I go. And especially on my commute, I like, look like an asshole. I'm always like down, you know, looking at my phone.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Along with every other New Yorker.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, really. And I annoy myself. So if this proves to be a very helpful companion when I'm out and about, yeah, I'd wear it all the time. I mean, probably I might take it off when I'm at my laptop. For some reason, I always take my watch out, off when I'm at my laptop. It hurts my wrist. Yeah, we used to both do that. I would leave my. I watch every place in the office because I would take it off when I was like it hurts with my wrist or something. I don't know.

• 22:30Nilay Patel?

  And I think it scratches my computer. There's all kinds of reasons I want to take off a watch from using my laptop.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Can someone hype check me because I'd like to make.

• 22:37Nilay Patel?

  Hype check, hype check something.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  Okay, thank you. I'm just assuming that's how you pass.

• 22:42Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah, hype check, hype toss.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  So I would argue that looking at your watch is as annoying to others as looking at your phone. And so like if you're in a conversation with someone, like you have to steal a peek at your watch if you want to look at the time. Because if people catch you doing it, they'll be like, I'm sorry, do you have someplace to be?

• 23:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I actually think it's a more disruptive gesture than peeking at a phone.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  I think it is the visual version of whatever. Like when people say whatever and it makes you like that, like, oh, I'm not welcome. And then like somebody looking at the watch is like, oh, you want to know how long it is until you.

• 23:17Nilay Patel?

  Because this is normal. You're like, oh, I got a beep and you look at the beep and you put it away. Because there's like, there's an element, well, maybe this is new in the watch. With a phone, you can at least pretend it got a notification, right? Just like sometimes I'm talking to a plant, I pretend to receive a phone call and walk away.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 23:34Nilay Patel?

  But you can at least pretend that like, oh, this beeped, I'm putting it away. I'm just looking at it.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:38Nilay Patel?

  With a watch, generally you're like, I am actually checking the time to see how much longer I have to deal with you. Maybe the addition of notifications to the watch will change that dynamic. But I think like fighting a thousand years of cultural behavior might be difficult.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  I do think though, and all of these things we're talking about have nothing to do with Apple.

• 23:58Speaker 03

  350 years old.

• 23:59Nilay Patel?

  Okay, 350 years of cultural development is like difficult.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Almost everything we're talking about right now has nothing to do with what this device can actually do.

• 24:07Nilay Patel?

  With the Apple watch, right? It has everything to do with smart watches.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 24:10Nilay Patel?

  And what's crazy to me is that I don't think Apple sees it. I think Apple thinks they made the like the industry defining smart watch.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  And they might have. We don't know yet.

• 24:20Nilay Patel?

  I think they just made another smartwatch. And it's not as much better as MP3 players as the iPod was better as other MP3 players. It's not better than other smartphones, the way the iPhone was better than other smartphones. It's not better than other tablets, the way that iPad was better than other tablets. It is very much of this generation of smartwatches.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Because it doesn't do that one thing better? I mean, my opinion is, in many ways, it has all those same components that the iPhone had, right? The iPhone, the iPad had. It's better looking, it's sleeker, type of design style is better than an Samsung or whatever.

• 24:56Nilay Patel?

  No, maybe, well, you don't think it looks good externally.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  And then the software, again, we don't know yet enough, but...

• 25:05Nilay Patel?

  I think the software is confusing to use.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was my initial impression as well, but I think that was probably my initial impression of the iPhone.

• 25:13Nilay Patel?

  That was absolutely... How many hands-on areas have you been in in your life? Right? Like, this is a thing, like, a million, like, all the time. Like, this is a thing that we do. I am very used to, Chris is very used to, going to events, picking up a new gadget, or new software, or new hardware, and immediately assessing.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Knowing how to use it.

• 25:33Nilay Patel?

  Right? Like, that is professionally what we do. It is rare, it is ultra-rare, for me to pick up something that I, like, should be able to use, and think to myself, "What screen am I on?"

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Right. To me, there was definitely a couple of those points where I was like, "I have to hold two fingers down to do a heart rate thing."

• 25:52Nilay Patel?

  I have to force-touch.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so there were definitely some of those points, but I do think in many of the ways that we have associated Apple as being kind of that step ahead of the other people or companies in the industry, there could be some of that here. Again, I don't know enough yet, especially of how those notifications work, to feel convinced about it. Because that's one of my biggest complaints about Android, where...

• 26:16Nilay Patel?

  But with the iPhone, so I've thought about this a lot, as I'm sure we all have, like, we want to make that comparison to the iPhone launch. And I think that with the iPhone announcement and with that event, it was very easy to sort of pull out the moments in that presentation and the features of the phone that made it...

• 26:35Speaker 03

  A step beyond anything in the market, right? With this, I look at it and I think, well, like in terms of technology, in terms of hardware, it's no better than anything else that's on the market today. All they've done is throw literally every feature at it in the hopes that something will stick.

• 26:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Like, it just, it seems like such a smorgasbord of crap that can go on your wrist.

• 26:55Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  And they're hoping that something sticks.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  And that, that wasn't the case, in fact, it was the opposite with the iPhone.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Right, it was pulling things out.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 27:01Nilay Patel?

  Right, the iPhone was like, ah, we don't need this 3G.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Right, we don't need MMS.

• 27:05Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  You know, it was like.

• 27:06Nilay Patel?

  We don't need copy and paste.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  We don't need apps.

• 27:08Nilay Patel?

  We don't need apps, like, literally every, they pulled everything out of that device. And the iPad, in many ways, like, was not, now it's like a tablet, like, you can make it pretty weak.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Maybe the confusing thing for all of us is the apps, right? If you pull out the things that Apple isn't do, that is just Apple here, right? It's messaging, it's the, the watch, and it's fitness.

• 27:33Nilay Patel?

  Right, and the watch is not a thing.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Well, it tells time.

• 27:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, but that's not, like, they open with it.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  That's something Apple invented.

• 27:39Nilay Patel?

  Right, but they open with it.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  No one told time before Apple.

• 27:42Nilay Patel?

  Tim Cook did this whole thing where he's like, first, it's a watch.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Right, first it's a watch.

• 27:46Nilay Patel?

  And it tells UTC time, and it's like, so does everything.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  No, nothing's ever told time.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  No, no, but they did make a deal, like Apple Gold, they made a, a big deal about Apple time, like, it's like, it's accurate down to 50 milliseconds.

• 27:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  They're using some special technology.

• 28:00Nilay Patel?

  But, no, I think that all of that is a reference to other super expensive watches.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:05Nilay Patel?

  Where you accomplish that stuff with like, precision mechanical gears.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:09Nilay Patel?

  And here, it's like, no, like, that's happening when the watch only costs $350 too, because it's a piece of silicon from China.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:19Nilay Patel?

  It's not like you're precision manufacturing. Like, Apple did this, they did it, uh, both for the aluminum and the stainless steel, they ran Johnny I videos. This event, by the way, was like.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  All Johnny I videos.

• 28:30Nilay Patel?

  It was, no, but to the, like, the next level of Johnny I videos.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Also, now, the Apple Watch app, I was watching it on, in the cab right here, is all Johnny I videos.

• 28:39Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, if you go into the app.

• 28:42Nilay Patel?

  Isn't it 8:2? I haven't updated 8:2 yet.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can imagine how Tim Cook.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Which also it stuck straight in the middle of my home screen. Like, it didn't even put it here. It just put it right in smack in the middle of my home screen.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Well, that's, you know, that's so you know to buy a watch.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Right, and that's outrageous to me.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I agree. I strongly agree.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  At least put it on the last page. Don't put it smack in between my really important Instagram and my really important Slack app.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Make it an app in the App Store. Make it an app in the App Store. That's what they should have done.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Look, you come in here and you have all these.

• 29:09Nilay Patel?

  Wait, hold up, hold up to the speaker or the microphone.

• 29:16Nilay Patel?

  No, we're gonna do the whole thing.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  No, it's eight minutes long.

• 29:20Nilay Patel?

  That's right, I got eight minutes.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Ten, sorry, 10 minutes 22 seconds.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  No, we've had enough. This is water torture.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  I just thought of something. You know who needs to play Johnny Ive in the Aaron Sorkin movie? Jason Statham.

• 29:36Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that makes sense. Here's the, you're absolutely right. No, no, no, see, there is an element to Johnny Ive's personal brand where people believe he looks like Jason Statham. He does not.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  I love Johnny Ive.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  I do too. I love Jason Statham.

• 29:53Nilay Patel?

  Who doesn't love the transporter? But Johnny, not, not a Statham. I mean, there's a weird, I'm gonna say this. I'm just gonna say it once.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:03Nilay Patel?

  And he deserves it. He's one of the most brilliant designers in the world. He has a voice, the voice of an angel.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  He really does.

• 30:10Nilay Patel?

  Talking about like aluminium extrusion. Like, it's incredible that he can be compelling with that. Dude wears white linen pants just all the time. I've now, I've seen him at events for years, always with the wrinkled white linen pants. And it's just like that. You wanna talk about privilege and status and like the wealth gap? Like, that is the wealth gap, like persona.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  He needs to go walk on the beach right after.

• 30:33Nilay Patel?

  He's always ready to go. He's always wearing like the moon shoes and the white linen and he's just like padding along. It's great.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, more in this conversation.

• 30:43Nilay Patel?

  But I'm saying, Jason Statham, no white linen pants. The only time Jason Statham is wearing white linen pants, it's like after he's killed the eight gods. And he's like alone in like the overlook cliffside hotel like brooding about his life.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  And he's about to be busted in and then kill another eight guys.

• 31:00Nilay Patel?

  That's the only time.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:02Nilay Patel?

  Right. It's like Jason, like, you know, it's, it's that scene in the action movie.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  I don't know anyone else who right wears white linen pants.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Maybe Ellen.

• 31:11Nilay Patel?

  I haven't shocked.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Music producers.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  You know what white linen pants are? They're hella leisure.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Is that a hype check?

• 31:19Nilay Patel?

  Hype check. I've checked white linen pants. All right. We gotta talk about the other thing. So here's the thing. So presumably the watch is coming out, what, mid-April? Some, there's some dates, there's pre-orders.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Twenty?

• 31:29Nilay Patel?

  People are already talking about which, are you gonna buy one?

• 31:33Speaker 03

  I don't know. Like I want a legit, so here's what I really want. I want to use a motive, a steel Moto 360 with iOS using an official Google Android Wear app for iOS. That's what I want.

• 31:46Nilay Patel?

  Right. Google now is the most compelling thing I've seen on a watch.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  I agree. I agree.

• 31:51Nilay Patel?

  But I can't use it with iOS. So what are you gonna do?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Well, I thought there are reports that they're gonna have an app, right?

• 31:56Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I've heard about them.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's been floating around, but like it's not here now. And who knows if it ever will be.

• 32:01Nilay Patel?

  Especially if Google, you know, they stopped selling the Nexus 5 today and they're like, I played with the Nexus 5, like forlornly played with the Nexus 5 for a while. Dude, if that phone just had a good camera.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 32:11Nilay Patel?

  It's a tiny phone.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's why I love it.

• 32:13Nilay Patel?

  I, I still love that phone. Like, and then I like looked at the Nexus 6 online today and I was like, really?

• 32:18Speaker 02

  This is so good.

• 32:19Nilay Patel?

  This massive thing.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Look, if you want to use Google's wireless network, you're gonna need Nexus 6.

• 32:25Nilay Patel?

  You know, there's a guy who tweets at me like three times a day asking me when the new Nexus 9 is coming out.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I mean, you have all the answers.

• 32:31Nilay Patel?

  It's just like, A, like the last tweet, just they, it just ended with the word, please.

• 32:39Nilay Patel?

  That was straight up. He's like, you have to know, please. And I'm like, I know.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Just give them a date.

• 32:47Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, so if that phone had a good camera, I would like move ecosystems.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  This conversation does prove to me though, that. They did not make a great case, obviously, and kind of knew that already, but that it seems like they are really depending on people using this to figure out why we would use it.

• 33:05Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:07Nilay Patel?

  Right, like, I would say that Android Wear, because of Google Now, has a great case, right? It presents to you a case for why you'd want to put this on your body all the time, right? Because Google is going to deliver ambiently important information to you wherever you are. So if you need to know about the world around you.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:26Nilay Patel?

  You're going to look at your wrist and Google's going to tell you, like, driving directions to work, or like, commute time, it'll just be there, or something, like, the Google Now stuff that you'd otherwise want to know, that's really interesting to me. But just like-

• 33:39Speaker 02

  And worth an interruption, sometimes. I think a lot of the question with what we've also been talking about here is like, what are any of those apps worth an interruption in our lives?

• 33:48Nilay Patel?

  And if you're gonna pay the price of an interruption, why wouldn't I pull out the bigger screen with the better battery and a faster processor?

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Right. I think if, and that's where I was also hoping for Apple to do something, and I'm hoping Google does it too, which is get smarter about what we want to be interrupted for.

• 34:06Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  And they, from what I've seen, Apple does not have the backend here to be smart about who we want to, what people that contact us across different services are worth interrupting us for.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Cool tweets.

• 34:19Nilay Patel?

  Cool tweets.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  Cool tweets.

• 34:20Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's the thing, they said Twitter's coming to thing, and one of the first tweets I saw was, imagine every at reply hitting your wrist.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  I know.

• 34:26Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Which is a nightmare.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  They told us that you could make a list.

• 34:31Nilay Patel?

  Who the hell is gonna do that?

• 34:32Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 34:35Nilay Patel?

  My wrist list?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  My wrist list.

• 34:37Nilay Patel?

  You're on my wrist list.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You'd be on my wrist list. You're my baby, yeah, but we could be VIPs.

• 34:42Nilay Patel?

  You're my baby girl. You're on my wrist list.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Only true bae's on my wrist list.

• 34:46Nilay Patel?

  Oh, God, I want to kill myself. I'm checking the wrist list.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Uh, no.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  But they did convince me why I needed a new MacBook, so I was happy about that.

• 34:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Okay, let's do the MacBook. We're definitely running over here, let's do the MacBook. Tell me I'm wrong, this is your moment.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  I want to tell a story on the Vergecast, and that's why I came here today.

• 35:03Nilay Patel?

  I have a counter story that proves I was right.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  You should just interrupt your story.

• 35:07Nilay Patel?

  I'm ready, I'm ready to interrupt this.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  I was on the Vergecast during CES.

• 35:11Nilay Patel?

  Oh, I was on that one, too.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, you were on that one, you had a seat at the table, Chris.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  I did, that's true. I've been downgraded.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  And you've been downgraded, and you need to speak to HR.

• 35:18Nilay Patel?

  This glass ceiling is rough.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Get back at the table.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  No longer the big boy.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  And um

• 35:24Nilay Patel?

  High check glass ceiling.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  I'm not done with my story. Can we get anyone to play any music here? Some so okay.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Anyway. There were rumors of a new MacBook Air. And Mark Gurman at nine to five Mac had a big break during CES, which Neil I thought was probably be planted by Apple, which not Chris planted, but

• 35:48Nilay Patel?

  I just meanly tweeted.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  Um, and I felt he was wrong about that.

• 35:54Nilay Patel?

  Joanna, I thought I was wrong about many things.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  That was the first thing I thought you were wrong about. The second thing was then Tom Warren had a great piece about some things that are

• 36:03Nilay Patel?

  I'm just playing any Steely Dan. Okay.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Reeling in the ears.

• 36:08Nilay Patel?

  I just literally played, I typed Steely Dan in Spotify and it started doing it.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  Okay, to catch up, Neil I was wrong about a lot of things.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  And then The Verge had a piece written by Tom Warren about, um, I guess put Tom Warren. Tom Warren.

• 36:20Nilay Patel?

  But that piece was 99% about the specs.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yes, and he, he did nail some of those specs. He nailed the processor. He nailed the, the port, though that was also reported by Gurman.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  And that was, it was, it was a solid piece of reporting in there, um, though there was in it implied, or not even implied, it actually said that this would be a lower cost computer for Apple.

• 36:46Nilay Patel?

  We got that wrong. I will, I will own up to getting that wrong.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  That was very wrong. Because I, at the time, said I could not see Apple introducing a high resolution MacBook Air that even with lower end processing power. What is going on?

• 37:04Nilay Patel?

  There's a picture of Plant that's just perfect. Anyway, carry on, carry on.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  And you kept saying, I think this is their, their place to get into a lower cost PC and go

• 37:14Nilay Patel?

  That, no, that is not what I said. That's why, that's why we disagree. And I would, I'm only off on this price by a little bit for this reason.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  You're off by $500.

• 37:24Nilay Patel?

  No, no, no, no, no. Three.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  900, 1300 minus 900.

• 37:31Nilay Patel?

  $300. Here's what I thought what they were gonna do.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  I'm going to get my calculator out.

• 37:35Nilay Patel?

  Okay, you do the calculation. Here's what I always said that they were gonna do. What they needed to do and what I, what we reported on, the reason that we nailed the port and the processor and the specs, um, was because I think this product exists to cannibalize, because Apple's great at self-cannibalizing, the people who buy a good, like, the high-end iPad and a keyboard case. That is the, that is this product's place is that thing.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  I...

• 38:05Nilay Patel?

  Right? Which generally comes out to be about $1,000. That's like, that is that zone for those products. It's the $700 iPad and the $200 case, which is where I got to $900.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Where's the $700 iPad if you're getting the 60 or the 100?

• 38:20Nilay Patel?

  That's like the medium, the medium iPad with LTE. That's like, that's like one of their best-selling units.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  And then a keyboard case is 100 bucks.

• 38:28Nilay Patel?

  No, the good ones are 200 bucks.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  The bridge is 150 bucks.

• 38:33Nilay Patel?

  You probably know more about these than I do.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  I do. Know a lot more than you.

• 38:37Nilay Patel?

  Clearly, that's why you're on the show today. But that was my argument, and that was what I, we had been told, and that the rest of that information was correct.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Hype check, Neelai's story.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Neelai, put a quarter in your ass because you played yourself.

• 38:52Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 38:58Nilay Patel?

  I'm just doing this for as long as it takes to make a gift.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Guys, oh gosh, are you doing your De Niro?

• 39:04Nilay Patel?

  I don't know, I know what this is.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Also, you know I have a gift card, you're not moving.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  You gotta move. Oh, no, grumpy Neelai.

• 39:12Nilay Patel?

  Anyway, I still feel good about that piece because we got most of the information right, and we made the wrong call on the price.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  We have to, we have to move quick, we have to hit...

• 39:18Speaker 02

  The price was...

• 39:19Nilay Patel?

  Tell me about the MacBook. Actually, here now evaluate the MacBook as a thing.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  As a thing. I'm, I'm, there's three parts of that that I'm really excited about. The screen, the keyboard, I'm really excited to try that thing out because this was, this has been a big problem within, in computers was the, kind of the height and the pitch of the keys. And then the, as the unfortunately called, forced touch.

• 39:43Nilay Patel?

  That thing, that trackpad is awesome.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that to me was like, okay, really, I'm not pressing down on anything? That's kind of crazy. And I'm excited about those things. I was a little bit disappointed that there was no Touch ID.

• 39:57Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  I, what else was I disappointed in? I am a little disappointed in the processor. We'll hopefully have to see how that handles, especially with that high-res screen.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  But other than that, it seems like a dream.

• 40:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I mean, I really liked it.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:13Nilay Patel?

  I think it's, it is slow. The first generation of every retina product is slow.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I read a lot of pieces, and I think this is probably true, unfortunately, that the second or third generation of this product is going to be the sweet spot.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is the Mac.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Lights out there, yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But we're all still gonna get one.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 40:32Nilay Patel?

  I will say this. The other reason that we, we went at the price that we went with in that piece, which was wrong, fine. Now, it was because I know that the Mac team thinks about Chromebooks a lot. Like, they do. They talk to us about it a lot. And they talk about...

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:49Nilay Patel?

  If, and this is true, because the next day was the Pixel embargo, Pixel review, and the Pixel's like a great little laptop. We're doing what?

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Segue.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  You did it.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:00Nilay Patel?

  We did it. But no, they're worth talking about together.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 41:04Nilay Patel?

  Like, if, if I could live in a world without the three native apps that I depend on, on my computer, which are basically like Slack and Twitter, that's in, on this laptop, on my work laptop.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  You could live with the Chromebook, with Twitter. TweetDeck's really good on there, on Chrome OS.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, I've done that.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  It's awesome.

• 41:25Nilay Patel?

  Right. Does it run the Gmail app?

• 41:28Speaker 02

  What do you mean?

• 41:28Nilay Patel?

  Because it runs that tiny handful of Android apps, right?

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's still just Gmail in the browser, but you can make it a separate window.

• 41:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I mean, like, there's just like a real chance that like a $1,000 Chromebook Pixel is a viable product.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what I wrote in my review, that it's not quite there, but that definitely goes head-to-head with the air, the current air, I think.

• 41:47Nilay Patel?

  Right. And that's kind of where our pricing...

• 41:50Speaker 02

  I can see that.

• 41:51Nilay Patel?

  That's where a lot of that came from, because we talked to, like, every time we have a review unit from Apple about a thing, what they talk to us is, they obviously talk about the spectrum of computers, and then they like, there's usually some mention of the Chromebook, just as a thing, because I think they know that most people who buy Macs... Are not super interested in buying Windows machine.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:14Nilay Patel?

  But they also know their usage stats. They know tons of people run web browsers all the time on their Macs and a beautiful laptop that's fast with an all-day battery that runs a web browser great is like still like a thing that people are interested in and they sell really well and they're way cheap, some of them.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and that's where I think the, the new update to the Air is really compelling because the Air is, and they said it, they said, "This is still the best mainstream laptop." This is the laptop for people.

• 42:41Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Right? And that, I mean, I said in my Pixel review that there's still many more reasons to get an Air over a Pixel or any Chromebook.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  They didn't add Force Touch to the Air, right? Just the 13 Retina.

• 42:52Nilay Patel?

  I will say that it's so weird because they introduced Force Touch on the watch where it makes no sense. It's just another thing you can...

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Where does it even work on the touch?

• 43:00Nilay Patel?

  It's on the watch face. That's how you change the watch faces. You like push down heart. It's like random, like there's a communications button, there's a digital crown with a button, there's like all swipe, you know, swipes and taps.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  There's a lot of ways.

• 43:11Nilay Patel?

  And then there's like this like random right-click in one app and then you can like, when you press the communications button to send a heartbeat, you push two fingers. It's like...

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 43:18Nilay Patel?

  Just this mess. And then on the MacBook, Force Touch is awesome. Like, it is very cool. Like, that one demo they do with QuickTime?

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, but beyond that, where is it gonna be really cool? I don't know yet.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  It's also super obvious it's gonna be on the next iPhone and iPad, no question.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:35Nilay Patel?

  Hmm.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  It, it's already rumored and it makes sense, right?

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  Like...

• 43:39Speaker 02

  But why do they have to call it Force Touch?

• 43:40Nilay Patel?

  It's a good question. Misorable name.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:42Nilay Patel?

  No, I mean, like, Apple's naming has fallen into severe chaos.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:46Nilay Patel?

  Like, digital crown, Force Touch, digital touch.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  I mean, there was mobile me.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Digital crown doesn't bother me as much as Force Touch.

• 43:51Nilay Patel?

  But just keep it, this is true. This is the three things that they have on the watch. Force Touch, digital crown, digital touch.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  What's digital touch?

• 44:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, right? It's, that's all those little communications features are called, that's digitally touching someone.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 44:06Nilay Patel?

  Which you do with the...

• 44:07Speaker 02

  But I like to digitally Force Touch somebody.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 44:09Nilay Patel?

  Unclear if you can do that.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  I will be digitally Force Touching you.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Chris, are you into that?

• 44:15Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:16Nilay Patel?

  You have to.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  I'm still stuck on digital crown.

• 44:18Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, hype check, force touch.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Sounds like something falling out of my teeth.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  It does.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Digital crown.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Or it sounds like a Burger King digital crown.

• 44:26Nilay Patel?

  I will say this, you know, we get, it's funny, we get a lot of what I would call Iverge comments. But this time, our, our general reaction to this event, and I think a lot of the tech press's skepticism of this event, has brought out like angry Apple people, which we haven't had in a long time. And that is, it was like refreshing.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  They're mad that you don't like what you.

• 44:46Nilay Patel?

  They're mad that we're this skep- I'm getting a lot of, "You don't understand the watch." And I, my instinct is like, "But why you?"

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, how do, do they know something we don't?

• 44:56Nilay Patel?

  That they love Apple.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Help us understand the watch.

• 44:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, I'm very confused.

• 44:59Speaker 03

  There are some hashtag teens on BuzzFeed that understand it.

• 45:03Nilay Patel?

  Oh, did you, you know, the video that journal, that BuzzFeed made that is clearly not journalism?

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 45:08Nilay Patel?

  That Ad Age really ran an article about calling, "This is not an ad, but it's a good win for Apple anyway."

• 45:15Speaker 02

  But that was not paid?

• 45:16Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I saw it made it, but I didn't.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  They called it a free ad, basically.

• 45:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. So just to, just give them the story, Chris.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, there's, there's this, this video of like these hashtag teens chilling at the Apple event.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Hashtag teens.

• 45:28Nilay Patel?

  There's a lot of lingo on this show now.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're chilling at the Apple event. They're like, "I'm about to check out the, the Apple watch. I'm super hyped for it."

• 45:35Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and the, the headline of the video on YouTube is people react, where, react to wearing the Apple watch for the first time.

• 45:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:41Nilay Patel?

  But it's not people, it's two BuzzFeed reporters.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Are they, no, those are random people.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're, they're normals.

• 45:46Nilay Patel?

  They're not normals.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  No, those are the, they, that's how the video made it seem.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:50Nilay Patel?

  No, those are BuzzFeed, because they got credentialed by Apple.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  So they probably just picked two random people that they let, let in. It seems like a very handhelded thing.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  BuzzFeed got President Obama to use a selfie stick. They can probably get two normals into the Apple event, is my guess.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  That's what I think happened. That's what, I, I think they worked with Apple on getting two random people into the event. By the way, both women.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Which I thought was interesting.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so these, these folks were super hype for the Apple Watch. And bless them. Maybe, you know what? Maybe they're gonna sell 150 million of these things this year. Who knows? It's Apple.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Probably they'll sell a lot of them.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:23Nilay Patel?

  I don't, I don't know. I'm medium on this. All right, talk about frozen.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Are we, are we actually doing this?

• 46:28Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, you got seven minutes.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  Oh, wait, wait. I'm sorry. One, one more Apple question, then we can get into that.

• 46:33Nilay Patel?

  Actually, we have more that we started late. We have more time than that.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Uh, what, uh, what color MacBook are you most hype about?

• 46:38Nilay Patel?

  Black, space gray.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  I like space gray, but I kind of just want a gold one, just to be that person.

• 46:44Nilay Patel?

  Becky, Becky sent me a note right away being like, I'm getting Becky's, Becky's MacBook. I'm like a bad husband. Her MacBook Air is so old.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Mine is so dented.

• 46:54Nilay Patel?

  It is actually Dieter's MacBook Air that was a year old when I bought it from him and gave it to her.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 47:00Nilay Patel?

  When we started The Verge.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Why don't you just buy her the actual MacBook Air?

• 47:04Nilay Patel?

  No, it's, it's, it's one of those. It's like a 2011 MacBook Air.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  But instead of buying the MacBook, instead of buying the MacBook, why don't you just buy the MacBook?

• 47:12Nilay Patel?

  Cause I, I have basically not upgraded her computer because I want to get, I was waiting for a retina Air. Cause it's fine.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  By the way, that is what I still want.

• 47:21Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  I still just want this computer to have a retina option.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  With these many, this, these ports.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  With these ports.

• 47:28Nilay Patel?

  Screw the ports.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  I'm gonna get it. And touch, and a touch force, force touching.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  People who have to actually do the job.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  I need a force touch this.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  What are you talking about? Who uses the port?

• 47:38Speaker 02

  I'm very excited about dongles.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  I'm gonna have a whole bag of dongles. I was telling Eli about this on, on iMessage.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Makes me anxious.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Dongles?

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Nauseous.

• 47:46Nilay Patel?

  I mean, Johanna did, did repeatedly send me the words, bag of dongles.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  You're, you're, you're living the wireless life now. They said it on stage.

• 47:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, this is the dream. And the woman was like basking in the glow of the screen. It's like, oh, her battery's gonna die.

• 48:00Nilay Patel?

  That was immediately what I thought. It was like, this dream is not gonna get you eight hours of battery.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  I don't really know how much I need those ports. I'm excited to try it out and see how much I miss it. But to me, I'm more frustrated about Apple's port situation or charging situation. Because if we have, which all of us will at some point be testing, a watch, the new Air or the new MacBook, and I have an iPhone, I will need to carry around three separate charging cords for that.

• 48:27Nilay Patel?

  Yep.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  That is insane.

• 48:29Nilay Patel?

  It is insane. It is not the right move.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  That is not right.

• 48:33Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  And what are the chances they're ever gonna change lightning to USB type C? Not good. And what are the chances that USB type C will ever charge that watch or an iPad?

• 48:42Nilay Patel?

  No, that's good. I could see a USB type C to lightning cable in the world.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  Oh, so, mm, okay.

• 48:50Nilay Patel?

  Like, that makes sense for them to make. Someone will make that right away. They told me USB type, A, USBs, that's a standard. B, it's electrically passed through with, like, regular USB.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  But what they should make is type C to type C.

• 49:04Nilay Patel?

  Wait.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Type C to type C.

• 49:06Nilay Patel?

  Because that's like a wormhole.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Why?

• 49:08Speaker 03

  No, what you, what you mean is male to female, right? Because it's, it's female on the computer. You want a, a cable that gives you a male type C that you can plug into whatever, right?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but also I want a type C, uh,

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Permitted transfer.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Male to type C male to put into my,

• 49:24Nilay Patel?

  Right, you want to, you want to get rid of lightning.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:26Nilay Patel?

  I think that's like a pretty good argument.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:28Nilay Patel?

  But I don't think they're getting rid of lightning.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Me neither.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  So people on Twitter made the point,

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Buy more things.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  People, people on Twitter made the point that lightning is actually substantially thinner than type C, and that might be the limiting factor.

• 49:39Nilay Patel?

  Well, there's that. Also, Apple makes money on every single licensed lightning accessory.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  And also that they want us to buy dongles.

• 49:47Nilay Patel?

  No, the dongles, the, uh, the, I think that they are,

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Do they make any money on dongles? Is there been a report?

• 49:54Nilay Patel?

  Basically, in a hands-on area, I was told, like, this, the dongles are not licensed. They are the standard. They're super cheap to make. They will be everywhere.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And that's why they cost, what, eighty dollars?

• 50:04Nilay Patel?

  That's why Apple's cost that much money. But I think you're going to be able to buy the bag of Amazon Basics, USB,

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Dongles.

• 50:09Nilay Patel?

  USB dongles for like twenty bucks. Like, I, I think that they're not stupid on that front.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:16Nilay Patel?

  I think they're gonna, a huge markup on like USB C to HDMI.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:21Nilay Patel?

  That'll be a hundred twenty bucks, and that'll be in every conference room in America, and Johnny I will buy as many white linen pants as he wants for the rest of his.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  And Bentley's.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 50:32Nilay Patel?

  So you're buying the gold one?

• 50:33Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 50:34Nilay Patel?

  Are you gonna buy a watch?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm probably, I mean.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Edition?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Definitely.

• 50:40Nilay Patel?

  We're all going addition.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no money left.

• 50:45Nilay Patel?

  We're bankrupting our company. We're taking our VC money and we're putting it right into smartwatches.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  What up?

• 50:52Speaker 02

  I might be confused. Can the sport use the other bands?

• 50:55Nilay Patel?

  Yes, but you won't be able to get them.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Um, why?

• 50:58Nilay Patel?

  Because they're not selling them. We're not selling all of them separately, right? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. But yes, the sport can use the other bands.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  So maybe I'm just gonna buy a sport.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  But, but Hype Check Ion X Glass bust.

• 51:15Nilay Patel?

  You just entered like a hype loop?

• 51:18Speaker 02

  I've not understood a word. For seven hundred percent of words you've said this whole.

• 51:24Nilay Patel?

  Being Sam is hard, okay? Being Sam.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Now we understand why you weren't invited to the table.

• 51:28Nilay Patel?

  Here's what I'm saying. Sam delivers those exact same words with such conviction that everybody knows what he means.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:35Nilay Patel?

  He's just, he's just conveying like a sense of positivity or negativity.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:39Nilay Patel?

  It's amazing.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  I'm trying to channel Sam and I'm having a hard time doing it.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  We're trying to say full things. Sam speaks in binaries. It's like, yes, no, good, bad.

• 51:50Nilay Patel?

  All right. Why do you, why do you hate Ion X Glass?

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Why do I hate Ion X Glass? Because it's not Sapphire.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  I think people should just buy the sport and get a, get a better band.

• 52:00Nilay Patel?

  How do you buy a band? This is so complicated.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Is that not possible?

• 52:04Nilay Patel?

  Why do they have?

• 52:05Speaker 01

  I'm sure.

• 52:06Nilay Patel?

  Why is this products? Are you buying one?

• 52:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  If they let you, Joanna, if they let you.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Have you been here for the last couple of hours?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  If they let you buy a band, if they let you buy a band, then Johnny Ive would be abdicating his responsibility as a designer.

• 52:19Nilay Patel?

  No, you can't.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  You read the. You read the New Yorker profile?

• 52:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, where he, he talks, he talks from smack on Motorola.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is insane. I'm sorry. Like, you're doing the exact same thing with the watch, except you're selling them as different SKUs.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  True.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  That's all you're doing.

• 52:34Nilay Patel?

  Whoa, I didn't realize the Milanese loop was so.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 52:38Nilay Patel?

  The Milanese loop.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like it.

• 52:40Nilay Patel?

  Um, you know, the thing about, the thing about Apple that is like particularly remarkable.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Go on.

• 52:47Nilay Patel?

  Is it their ability to just like whole cloth create vocabulary for people?

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 52:52Nilay Patel?

  So you're at this event and people are like, ooh, you know, I prefer the Milanese. I'm like, you didn't, you didn't know that word this morning.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Or what was the tiered battery? Not tiered batteries.

• 53:01Nilay Patel?

  The contoured batteries.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:03Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, where they're like.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  No, terrace.

• 53:04Nilay Patel?

  Terrace, terrace. It's just like, how, how is, how is this company like able to just deliver vocabulary?

• 53:12Speaker 02

  This is my favorite shot. This is also in one of the videos. This one here.

• 53:16Nilay Patel?

  Which one?

• 53:17Speaker 02

  See it?

• 53:17Nilay Patel?

  What are you showing?

• 53:18Speaker 02

  That you will have sex if you get the.

• 53:19Nilay Patel?

  Oh yeah, there's a lot of people making out with the watch.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  There's a lot of sex with the watch.

• 53:23Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, just fucking.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  I need to get this watch.

• 53:28Nilay Patel?

  But what's the point?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  I've figured it out.

• 53:30Nilay Patel?

  No, there's.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  This is the answer.

• 53:32Nilay Patel?

  There are a lot of shots of, of people just like in like really weird embraces.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  It's for teens.

• 53:37Nilay Patel?

  But just like with an app open on their phone.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  But what's the point of digital touching someone if you can analog touch them?

• 53:42Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, check out my heartbeat now.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Because teens only know how to communicate through the digital.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Very bad force touch joke to make in here and I'm not gonna make it.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 53:49Nilay Patel?

  Force, don't force touch anyone.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Can we talk about one more force?

• 53:52Nilay Patel?

  That's the only thing you should say about force touch. Don't force touch anyone.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  Oh, I want to tell you my Star Wars thing.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, let's listen to.

• 53:59Nilay Patel?

  By the way, just, just say no. The 42 millimeter link bracelet. Guess how much it costs?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  I don't want to know. It's gonna depress me.

• 54:04Nilay Patel?

  $449. Just for the bracelet of the watch.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  Maybe the sport band, if the, does the sport, can I get the sport and put it on with the leather loop?

• 54:12Nilay Patel?

  Yes. Wait, leather loop? Yes.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  That looks great. That's a great solution for people. How much is the leather loop?

• 54:19Nilay Patel?

  It's a hot, it's another $150.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  For the band?

• 54:22Nilay Patel?

  For the band.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if I, hmm, where is there, where is the pricing on here?

• 54:28Nilay Patel?

  Okay, go to store.apple.com slash US slash watch slash watch desk accessories slash bands.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Let's go into the store.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  That PHP.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  This is great radio.

• 54:40Nilay Patel?

  If I, if I, if, if I have one thing to say about the watch, if there's one message that I'm trying to convey about this watch, it is that it is so complicated. Everything about it is complicated. What is the URL to see what watch bands there are?

• 54:54Speaker 03

  Just ordering is exhausting.

• 54:55Nilay Patel?

  It is not apple.com slash watch slash bands. It is this garbage. Like, everything about it is overdone. All right, talk about Star Wars.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  I bet you they sell a lot of these 349 silver sports.

• 55:08Nilay Patel?

  Yes, because people are sheep.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're sheep.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  They're sheep and they're sheep.

• 55:12Nilay Patel?

  They're eye sheep.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  They're eye, they're sheep.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Welcome to hell, sheep.

• 55:14Nilay Patel?

  Eye sheeps.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Eye sheeps.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Everything becomes them.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  I'm an eye sheep.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  In the joke, we give them a term. Oh, I'm a Milanese eye sheep.

• 55:25Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, no, I, I prefer.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  No, definitely this white one with the band. This looks good.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Here, here. This white one with the band.

• 55:32Nilay Patel?

  I'm saying, there's gonna be people in the world who know the difference between a 38mm modern buckle and a 42mm classic buckle.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone, because Apple, everybody, so self-conscious.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  No, honestly, they should've called it men and female.

• 55:45Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  Male and female.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Oh, that would've been.

• 55:47Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Why?

• 55:48Speaker 01

  That'd've been trouble.

• 55:49Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Women naturally have smaller wrists.

• 55:52Nilay Patel?

  No, I, I know, I personally know women who like big watches and men who like small watches.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  That's true. I do, I think more women like.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Small watch man.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  You're a small watch man?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  My wrists are the size of chicken legs.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, mine too, but.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I'm, yeah, I, I get smaller.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  They're tiny little wrists.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  All right, okay, they should've called it that.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Very frail, like little wires.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Well, they should've called it small and medium.

• 56:15Nilay Patel?

  You got, you got some Star Wars minutes here.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Guys, I got Star Wars. Are you ready for this? I'm gonna steal something entirely.

• 56:20Nilay Patel?

  Yep.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  So, my pal, Mike Ryan, who now is at Uproxx, is the world's biggest Star Wars fan. The new Star Wars got a name announcement. This is like the one that's not part of the next trilogy. It's called Star Wars Rogue One, and it stars Felicity Jones, I believe is her name, as the lead, right? So, female lead, do you know anything about like what the Rogue Squadron is?

• 56:42Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  We're gonna get real deep. So you know Rogue Squadron is what, uh, the thing that Luke Skywalker led in Empire Strikes Back, was Red Squadron in New Hope.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  The theory is, could be one of two things, or maybe not either of them, but the most interesting idea that's floating around right now is, you know, at the beginning, well, at the end of A New Hope, they blow up the Death Star. And they know exactly how to get into the Death Star. They have to have those plans. So this would be a prequel between the prequels and the first, the normal trilogy, to like literally Space Heist, starring a female fighter pilot from the Royal Squadron.

• 57:20Nilay Patel?

  Matthew Broderick.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Oh, it's, it's, it's.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  It's Tower Heist.

• 57:23Nilay Patel?

  Tower Heist.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Matthew Broderick.

• 57:25Nilay Patel?

  Well, you know, every movie is just Die Hard in a different structure, right?

• 57:28Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 57:29Nilay Patel?

  Right? Uh, uh, uh, oh, God, what's the, with, um, Jean-Claude Van Damme on a boat? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 57:36Speaker 03

  No.

• 57:37Nilay Patel?

  Under Siege is Die Hard on a boat.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:40Nilay Patel?

  Speed is Die Hard on a bus. Every movie is Die Hard on a different thing.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  All good movies.

• 57:44Nilay Patel?

  All good movies are Die Hard in different locations.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:47Nilay Patel?

  And this is, this will be Die Hard in space.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  The, the other option is apparently that, you know how they like deleted all of canon? Like basically ruining the lives of every nerd imaginable? Because everybody's like, you're wasting your time. And then it turned out they were because all the Star Wars stuff they read is no longer canonical.

• 58:02Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  The good thing is they reset that. They're doing new comic books and this is again from this piece that everybody should go read on Up Rocks, uh, that Princess Leia, in between New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.

• 58:14Nilay Patel?

  Are you sleeping on the microphone stuff?

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Guys, it's, you've gotta love this.

• 58:18Nilay Patel?

  I do love it.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  This is the nerd stuff.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  He's got, you're, you're with him.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I was so there when everybody was talking about their boring watches that nobody's gonna like.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  I know, I, I, and you're right, I should be more attentive. This is my conversation with my wife all, every day.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I, I, I, I wanna hear more.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  She's like, I listen to your stupid tech stuff. You need to listen to my whatever.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 58:38Nilay Patel?

  So, but.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  You don't even remember what the topic is.

• 58:41Nilay Patel?

  What we've just heard is Joanna's definitely not paying attention to Michelle.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  No, definitely not, no.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Uh, that's great.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Guys, it's gonna be great.

• 58:50Nilay Patel?

  It's gonna be great.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I'm just excited.

• 58:51Nilay Patel?

  It's gonna be a thing. People aren't legitimately excited for this Star Wars.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  I wasn't excited until, this is the first thing, like, I mean, you've heard me rant about like, how I'm so put off by Disney's constant marketing machine. The idea of a space heist sounds great.

• 59:04Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  I need more space heists in my life.

• 59:05Nilay Patel?

  I'm excited for this.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  What is the situation with Frozen? Is it part of this?

• 59:09Speaker 01

  So Frozen 2, well, it's part of the Disney, it's part of the Disney mega storm where they can announce things constantly. And they officially, officially announced something we knew would come, Frozen 2.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Right, of course.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  And it's also taking over their theme parks. Like, we were there in December, and it was like already,

• 59:26Speaker 02

  At Disney World?

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, at Disneyland.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  At Disneyland.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  It was already starting to bleed in, but now they're like, gung ho, we have to devote all resources to Frozen.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  So what, they have like all new rides and stuff?

• 59:37Speaker 01

  They were kind of like remodeling some of the rides. I think that's the temporary fix.

• 59:41Nilay Patel?

  You know, Jungle Cruise is,

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, I wish.

• 59:45Nilay Patel?

  It's totally a frozen adventure now.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Do you know what Jungle Cruise does now for Christmas?

• 59:48Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  They do Jingle Cruise, and like, all the other rides in Disney, you know, are so well done for Christmas. Total revamps, like Connie mentioned. Jingle Cruise, they only put like, boxes of Christmas presents in one area, and like, a Santa hat on one thing. Don't change anything else.

• 1:00:06Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  It's the, Jungle Cruise is the best.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  I'm looking at, trying to look at Frozen rides.

• 1:00:11Nilay Patel?

  Alright.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  I think we did it.

• 1:00:13Nilay Patel?

  We did it. We wrap the show?

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Nilay Patel?

  Is it time?

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  How do we have Chris on and not talk about Furious 7? They dropped real cars out of a plane.

• 1:00:22Nilay Patel?

  They did. They did. Chris, hype check Furious 7.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  A hype times a billion. Are you kidding me?

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Are we singing this together?

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  I will see it multiple times with anyone who wants to see it.

• 1:00:36Nilay Patel?

  And we have some, there are some exciting Furious 7 plans in the works. Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be something.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  When is Frozen actually gonna be out?

• 1:00:44Nilay Patel?

  Poor Emily will continue to look at us like we're crazy. Like, it's like, literally, we're hiring Emily to be our entertainment editor. Like, the one, as like, you get complete control, I want you to like, own as much of this as possible. If you touch her Furious 7, I will throw you off the roof. Like, she's like, I understand. Uh, okay, great. Engage. Do you wanna do it, or do you want me to do it?

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  I don't know how to do this part.

• 1:01:04Nilay Patel?

  Alright, I'm gonna wrap the show. Alright. So that is the Verge Cast. Thank you for listening. Uh, it's funny, cause it just says Ziegler here, because they just assumed that you would be Sam again.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  That's me, I did that. It's news.

• 1:01:16Nilay Patel?

  Follow us on a variety of social platforms, the most important of which are Twitter. We're at Verge. We are on Facebook, follow us there. We're on Snapchat, we're the Real Verge. Our Snapchat, again, next level craziness happening on there. And then go to iTunes.com/vergecast, leave us a rating. I would like this week for you to leave us a review that tells us which Apple Watch you are or are not going to buy. And if you're not gonna buy one, that's fine, but just give us a five stars anyway. And if you are gonna buy one, explain, explain your thinking. Yeah.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Can I do a quick promo for What's Tech? Because it's a hot thing this week.

• 1:01:54Nilay Patel?

  You get one minute.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Okay, What's Tech. This week, that just happened, we did a hacking episode with Russell Brandam. It was great. But, coming up this Tuesday, we have Sam Hypecheck Sheffer.

• 1:02:07Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Explaining Snapchat.

• 1:02:09Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  And there is a lot of choice stuff going on in this episode.

• 1:02:15Nilay Patel?

  Sam is emotional about Snapchat.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  We might even have a special promotional video slash cartoon for this. I'm, I'm like...

• 1:02:22Nilay Patel?

  I'm ready.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  I'm ready. It's gonna be good.

• 1:02:25Nilay Patel?

  What's Tech, that's on Tuesdays.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Find it on iTunes.

• 1:02:27Nilay Patel?

  Vergecast again on Thursday. We'll have Joanna back. We're gonna talk about some Frozen and Star Wars.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  I was gonna pick me back after this one. I feel like a failure.

• 1:02:34Nilay Patel?

  You didn't do great.

• 1:02:35Speaker 02

  I didn't do good.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  My favorite part was when you fell asleep while I was talking about Star Wars.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I, I, Sam did last night.

• 1:02:40Nilay Patel?

  We gotta go.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  I didn't get home till 2 a.m.

• 1:02:42Nilay Patel?

  We have, yeah.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  I'm making excuses.

• 1:02:44Nilay Patel?

  Me too. I'm dancing, Chris is at a fake bar.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  Honestly, Neli only texted me because nobody else could come to this.

• 1:02:48Nilay Patel?

  Confuciusian's at South Park.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  So, that's why I'm here.

• 1:02:51Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, okay. I love you all, thank you for listening, that's the Vergecast, we'll see you next week.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Bye.