CES 2015, Day 2

It's Day 2 of CES 2015. We're confused, we're delirious, and we have a lot of feelings about Say Anything. Join Nilay Patel, Dieter Bohn, Chris Plante, and Sam Sheffer on this live Vergecast odyssey from the show floor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Nilay Patel?

  Hey everybody, welcome to The Vergecast. The show where we exist at CES and have emotions about it. And then we allow those emotions to travel down our brains.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Into the microphones, through the internet, out of your stereo.

• 0:23Nilay Patel?

  And then into your ears, and then into your brains. So really, brain-to-brain communication here on The Vergecast at CES.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  I prefer to think it was infection, because it's CES. It's brain-to-brain infection.

• 0:34Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, it's a virus. CES is a virus, and now it's in your brain. Thank you for listening to us. Hi, I'm Neelai Patel.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  I'm Chris Plant.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  I'm Dieter Bone.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  And I'm Sam Sheffer.

• 0:45Nilay Patel?

  Swagasty.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  His swagasty.

• 0:46Nilay Patel?

  You can't call...

• 0:47Speaker 03

  That's a joke.

• 0:48Nilay Patel?

  You can't say it about yourself.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  He refers to himself in the royal swag.

• 0:53Nilay Patel?

  No, Hype Check himself is back in the mix today.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 0:56Nilay Patel?

  Very exciting. I will say this. Here's the truth. And I want this show to be about truth.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05Nilay Patel?

  I am super hungover.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Why are you hungover on a Wednesday? Because you went up in the club on a Tuesday?

• 1:13Nilay Patel?

  Days don't exist.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  It's Las Vegas.

• 1:15Nilay Patel?

  Did you just try to write a little rap?

• 1:16Speaker 03

  I did.

• 1:17Nilay Patel?

  Don't do that either.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Just let it go. Let it go.

• 1:20Nilay Patel?

  Did you just sing "Let It Go" at me?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:25Nilay Patel?

  0 for 2, actually 0 for 3.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Hype Check, "Let It Go."

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Oh, come on.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Overplayed.

• 1:31Nilay Patel?

  Oh, rough. Rough, man.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  We are not friends anymore.

• 1:35Nilay Patel?

  Well, within 10 minutes of opening the show, we've burned frozen. So that, I think, is good.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  And he hopes of redeeming ourselves today.

• 1:42Nilay Patel?

  It's all downhill. No, it's Las Vegas. Time doesn't exist here.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  You went to a work party last night.

• 1:47Nilay Patel?

  I went to a work... and I worked.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  And you came back drunk. Can I tell you a story of what happened in my room last night? I went to bed...

• 1:55Nilay Patel?

  Please don't.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  The red shoes. Um, so I won't say who it was, but I'll say it's somebody who works at our company.

• 2:05Nilay Patel?

  This is going badly.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  And he's tall and bald. And I'm like, home early, getting some work done. I'm gonna go to sleep in a decent time. I'm reading a book about the Japanese railroad built during World War II, getting thoroughly depressed like I like to do before bedtime, gonna have bad dreams, and typing away. And then somebody walks into the room and he is like, "Oh my, it's my new wife." And I'm like, "Nope, that's not who I am."

• 2:32Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  And he's like, "Guess where I came from?" And I was like, "The work party?" He's like, "The work party. And guess what I talked about?" And I'm like, "Drones." And he's like, "Drones?" And then kept saying drones, and then proceeded to-

• 2:46Nilay Patel?

  I have a really clear idea.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  He had to tell me a story about how he like, he really seduced the, the people at this party with his story about Hasbro buying magic cards, but not developing Hearthstone. And halfway through, he's like, "And then I said, 'You should've made Hearthstone.'" And then like, proceeded to snore loudly. And that was the rest of my night.

• 3:09Nilay Patel?

  That person was me.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  On a completely-

• 3:12Nilay Patel?

  That boy was me.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Totally unrelated note, uh, some of our staff went and had awesome adventures with drones in the past couple of days.

• 3:20Nilay Patel?

  Really? You're gonna try to like, like cleverly transition into-

• 3:24Speaker 03

  That's a great segue.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  No, we should talk about that video.

• 3:26Nilay Patel?

  What did you people think would happen here?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  The coolest video-

• 3:29Nilay Patel?

  They came here for the free coffee and the wifi and probably, probably that sick car to look at it.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  You and that car, man.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Can we talk about the coolest video on the site right now?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  You should start out as friends, you and that car.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Have you seen that video?

• 3:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's talk about the coolest video. What is the coolest video on the site right now?

• 3:45Speaker 02

  So, uh, Ben Popper went out into the desert and, uh, raced in a drone rodeo and then participated in, uh, a drone Thunderdome, where he, he battled drones in a drone sumo match.

• 4:00Nilay Patel?

  And it was like, he was like, he was like, actually driving it, right?

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he had to wear like VR glasses.

• 4:06Nilay Patel?

  First person, first person racing through the desert sky. It was crazy.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  What I liked about the drone battle was not the battle themselves, which looks as childish and pathetic as you think it would. But what happens between the battles is they do break each other. Like, the build is solid and unbreakable, but the propellers are not.

• 4:25Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  So you're given 90 seconds to fix it. So you see these, like, grown men sprint into the ring, like, dive onto their drone, and they do, like, a full teardown of that drone and fix it in 90 seconds and get the hell out. And they have that, like, controller back in their hands, and they're right back at it. And that's the real sport. Like, that's where you have to train.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  The drone pit crew is the real sport.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Is, like, training to fix a drone in 90 seconds and also sprint, like, 50 feet to get in and out. I would watch that forever, on loop, as a gift.

• 4:58Nilay Patel?

  The drone rodeo is actually just a gif of a grown man sprinting to his drone.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  And repairing his toys.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  And speaking of YouTube videos.

• 5:06Nilay Patel?

  Speaking of YouTube videos.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  And theverge.com.

• 5:09Nilay Patel?

  What?

• 5:09Speaker 03

  We hit half a million subs today on YouTube.

• 5:11Nilay Patel?

  So I'm not done talking about drones. Okay, I'm proud of the achievement, and I know that Social Sam is...

• 5:15Speaker 03

  I'm trying. I'm trying to do my job.

• 5:16Nilay Patel?

  But I just want to ask you, do you know segway... how segways work?

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Yes, that you lean forward to go and you lean back to stop.

• 5:25Nilay Patel?

  There's just...

• 5:26Speaker 02

  No, it's like...

• 5:26Nilay Patel?

  The whole...

• 5:27Speaker 02

  You know how they work, actually.

• 5:28Nilay Patel?

  The whole room, there's a crowd here that didn't go there with you.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  It's like the acapella battle from Pitch Perfect. You just take whatever the word is and you go right into the next song. And I don't blame them.

• 5:37Nilay Patel?

  There they go. Stop by the car.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Get your picture taken.

• 5:41Nilay Patel?

  Now they're circling back around.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  What was the biggest thing that happened to you, Al? Biggest thing?

• 5:46Nilay Patel?

  No, so, like, I did suit stuff all day today. It's actually really funny, like, my CS is about, like, being a suit. So I did suit stuff. What did you do today?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Uh, I filmed a video that is going to go on theverge.com.

• 5:58Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  That makes me look like a real asshole, so...

• 6:01Nilay Patel?

  What was the video?

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Unlike everything I've published.

• 6:03Nilay Patel?

  What was the video?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I went, so, it's my first CS, as we've talked about extensively, and I went around the show floor asking people for advice. First about CES, but second about where I would acquire a legal substance in Las Vegas, and then, third, if I were to come into legal trouble, how I'd get out of it.

• 6:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  And you'd be surprised how many PR people had answers for that, ready to go.

• 6:25Nilay Patel?

  Well, I bet that's like part of their job, right?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah.

• 6:27Nilay Patel?

  Oh, the CEO of the company is super drunk again.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Which happens all the time. Not saying which company that is, but maybe it's right across the way.

• 6:34Nilay Patel?

  You know, there's one booth here.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I'm pointing at Replay.

• 6:39Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Replay XD. The newest of the Replay family. I have no idea what they... They do a lot of yelling over there, I will say. Oh, it's a drone. Duh.

• 6:47Speaker 03

  There's drones everywhere.

• 6:48Nilay Patel?

  There are dr... I will say, so that's a big theme we have not yet talked about at all on the show, which is drones are everywhere.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Is 2015 the year of consumer drones?

• 6:56Nilay Patel?

  So, I don't... What? Who cares?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  The thing about drones being everywhere...

• 6:59Nilay Patel?

  Don't say those words to me in that order. No, it probably is the year of consumer drones. But that makes us sound like terrible jerks when we say it that way.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  No, right, but like GoPros most likely getting into the business, GoPro and drones are becoming ubiquitous everywhere. They're everywhere here. We have a bunch of them in the office. We use them to film our videos. And when they get cheaper, people are gonna buy them for Christmas.

• 7:20Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Until they're regulated, they all disappear.

• 7:23Nilay Patel?

  Right, yes.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Inside of an airplane's propeller.

• 7:26Nilay Patel?

  No, I mean, like, that's just like a... The reason I responded so harshly to that phrasing is like...

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Because it's true.

• 7:32Nilay Patel?

  Oh, god. Yes, because of the essential truth of the statement. That's what I hate. I hate true things. Give me lies. No, what I mean is like, it's... Nothing is the year of anything at CES. Like, it's a totally artificial environment.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I meant like 2015 is going to be the year.

• 7:47Nilay Patel?

  Everything here is fake. It's made of fake things. Can you tell that I've had to like do suit things all day?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  No, I couldn't tell at all.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Very angry Dan.

• 7:54Nilay Patel?

  I've had to be... Yeah, I've had to be so polite all day that now it's just like...

• 7:58Speaker 03

  That's a rage. Neelah rage.

• 8:01Nilay Patel?

  I mean, like, look... No, I think the drone thing is... The reason it's exciting, the reason people will buy them, is actually a thing that Ben has said several times, which is, "This is awesome." Like, you put on the thing and you're flying and it's like actually an immersive experience. And I was talking to somebody about Uber today, which is like a miserable, bad company. But the thing that Uber like makes real and the thing that Seamless makes real is like you push a button on the phone and then something like happens in real life. And everything has been so virtual and so restricted to like cellphone screens for like three years. That what you're seeing here is like drones happen in real life. Like, they're loud and noisy and they can hurt you. And like, our government is like trying to figure out how to deal with them, like, but they're toys.

• 8:42Nilay Patel?

  They're toys on a scale that literally the United States of America is like, "Maybe we shouldn't have those toys." Maybe only professionals should have these toys.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Maybe only we should have them for blowing up things.

• 8:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, there's definitely gonna be like an NRA for drones. Like super mad, like drones rights people are gonna get like all open arms.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Drones rights.

• 9:02Nilay Patel?

  How dare the government.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Those are bees.

• 9:09Nilay Patel?

  They don't like rev up.

• 9:16Nilay Patel?

  Alright, how many drones have you seen here?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  How mu- oh my god, I don't know, like seven or eight? So I guess a good number? You mean like total or like a variety of drones? Uh, not drone wise, they all look the same, except for that drone that like follows you.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the air dog, that's what I was gonna talk about.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  And it's right outside of a trailer.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  But it's, it's, it's terrifying and hilarious. It's a drone that just automatically follows you, right?

• 9:43Nilay Patel?

  Does it protect me from like attackers?

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Cause it's a little, it's your little friend.

• 9:47Nilay Patel?

  It's an air dog. I get it. No, it's a good name.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  No, run out of your friends.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Drones are everywhere, so they should be boring, but people are like finding random extra things to do to like make their mark on the drone world. And so it's creating some like weird nerdy innovation. They're gizmos is what I'm saying.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Gizmos.

• 10:03Nilay Patel?

  I was already mean to Sam, so I don't wanna be mean to you.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  No, actually, the coolest drone thing was at Intel's keynote last night. Intel's keynote last night, they did a drone that did automatic avoid avoidance. And it could, it could drive itself, it could, and if you close the door, it would like not run into the door and it wouldn't hurt you. And so it's finally adding like the proper amount of automation and self-driving and autonomousness to the drone to make it actually genuinely exciting.

• 10:32Nilay Patel?

  What's the tech call? A remote controlled helicopter. Here's, most drones here are like lies, right? Like in the sense that they're just kind of like RC quadcopters. And if like, two years ago, if I was like, I'm gonna buy you a remote controlled helicopter, you'd be like, that would be awesome, but please don't tell anyone I played with this, right? Like you're, right? Like it's the one guy at the park who's making life, life hard for everyone, cause he doesn't. Quite know how to keep it in the air. I was that guy. It's fine.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:00Nilay Patel?

  I know that feeling. But now it's like, it's a drone. And everyone's like, the coolest thing that could happen in 2015, year of consumer drones.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  It has the same name as things that kill.

• 11:09Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Now I can use it.

• 11:11Nilay Patel?

  Year of RC boats. That's the one that's coming next.

• 11:16Nilay Patel?

  By the way, RC cars are dope. I used to build them.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 11:18Nilay Patel?

  No, but yeah, see? But if I was like, when I used to build rolling drones, you'd be like, yeah, that's awesome. Those are super disruptive.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  The drone was sitting there in the middle of the stage, sad and lonely, just hovering.

• 11:32Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  And a dude like ran at it. And it was like, nope, don't hit me. And then another dude, they had four guys just like pell mell rushing the drone.

• 11:41Nilay Patel?

  We have a video of this?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  And it was like dodging around trying not to get hit. It was amazing.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  I don't like it. Because like, what I like about drones.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  What I like about drones is hitting them with a baseball bat. That is what they're for.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  You read my mind. Because it's like, if a drone gets out of order, I'm gonna get my bat and bring it down.

• 11:56Nilay Patel?

  Right. So the NRA and the drones, right people, they're coming for each other.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  The greatest match of scoop shooting ever seen.

• 12:05Nilay Patel?

  No, but I would say this, the thing that makes drones drones is what you're talking about, intel.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:09Nilay Patel?

  They have to be smart. They have to basically fly themselves.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:12Nilay Patel?

  That's why RC helicopters didn't, they were hard to fly, so they're not popular.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:16Nilay Patel?

  Now it's like you push the button and your little parrot drone like pops up in the air and like does a flip. Uh, and then your father-in-law is like, cool Christmas present.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  And then you spend $800.

• 12:27Nilay Patel?

  You bought me another drone I don't want to play with. That didn't happen to me. Not at all.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 12:35Nilay Patel?

  What? Just a little, just a little car.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  All the sadness coming out.

• 12:37Nilay Patel?

  It wasn't sad, it was.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  The truth. Sadness truth.

• 12:40Nilay Patel?

  My father-in-law is a legit corn farmer and the first time Becky introduced me to him, he showed me his sniper rifle. So the drone thing, I think is gonna work out well for him.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Was he like, look how cool this is? Or was he like, look what I have?

• 12:52Nilay Patel?

  He was more like, so you're dating my daughter?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:55Nilay Patel?

  I can't tell if we're gonna be really good friends. I'm super happy she brought a boy home that I like, but also I have this gun.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  In a two kilometer range.

• 13:03Nilay Patel?

  He's like, it has a laser. This is a true story. He has an impressive gun collection. He has one that was signed by Dale Earnhardt Jr. Or Dale Earnhardt Sr. Whom he reveres.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  R.I.P.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:14Nilay Patel?

  I like him. He's a cool guy. I buy him drones over here for Christmas. And next year I'm gonna buy him one that flies itself.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  Follows him around like a little dog.

• 13:22Nilay Patel?

  Here's your air dog. Instead of getting back your dog, I'm gonna buy her a drone.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Wait, how can they use the name Air Dog?

• 13:29Nilay Patel?

  Huh?

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Isn't Air Dog?

• 13:30Speaker 03

  Air Hog. Air Hog.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Oh, Air Hog.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  It's called the Air Hog. Air Hog is what you're thinking of. I got you.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Uh, okay. Because I was worried, Air Dog represents a classic film franchise of dogs that slam dunk and score touchdowns.

• 13:43Speaker 03

  Oh, no, that's Air Bud.

• 13:44Nilay Patel?

  That's Air Bud.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Oh, who is an Air Dog?

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Air Dog, Air Bud.

• 13:47Nilay Patel?

  None of these names are good.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Air Bud is masterpiece.

• 13:53Nilay Patel?

  Air Bud 2, I think, is the masterpiece you're thinking of.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Electric Boogaloo.

• 13:55Nilay Patel?

  The first Air Bud was like, it proved the concept, and Air Bud 2, I took it home.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 14:00Nilay Patel?

  But you wanna wait, is you wanna wait for the second Air Bud? So, yes, yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  They also, they did one other thing that's really cool. It's called the Curie Module.

• 14:11Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  So last year, they had a computer that fit in an S.D. card.

• 14:14Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  And the Curie Module is like the, so that was called Edison, so inventor, and the Curie is, assuming, Mary Curie.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  It does, it does like wearable stuff, but it's like the size of a button. So, we've been talking about this. The Internet of Things is everywhere, and Intel's like, they've made a thing that you just like, can like, stick it on anything, and it becomes an Internet of Thing.

• 14:34Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  Can you, can you just explain what that means?

• 14:37Nilay Patel?

  Internet of Singular Thing.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Real word.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  You want me to explain the Internet of Things?

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, like you say, oh, you have a button, you know, a sensor that's the size of a button, you put it on your shirt, and it becomes the Internet of Things. What does that mean?

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Well, it becomes a wearable. It, it, it'll, you know.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I think he means what's it doing.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, like this whole Internet of Things.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  It would need a sensor to do.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  You wrote the piece, Dieter, but like.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  I didn't write the piece.

• 14:56Nilay Patel?

  No, it's, I can, but.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  What comes after smartphone?

• 14:58Speaker 02

  It does, it does gesture recognition, six-axis like movement, it's got a gyroscope. It's like enough to like build a basic wearable.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  It's, it's a starting point.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  So, it's, it's just about, you explain.

• 15:08Nilay Patel?

  Okay, so the Intel keynote every year is Intel being like, man, we should sell more chips, right?

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Because that's what they do.

• 15:15Nilay Patel?

  But they don't actually sell any products. So Intel is in this weird place where they have marketed their way to being a super well-known consumer brand. People like know Intel.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Intel Inside.

• 15:24Nilay Patel?

  They think of it as a smart company, right? Centrino and Pentium, like all those things were Intel moments. And at CES, they show up and they like. Try to invent reasons that you would buy their chips. So every year the Intel keynote is full of like fantastic ideas. None of which will ever come to market. But they like, here's other places you could put processing.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Wait.

• 15:43Nilay Patel?

  That's their functional, what, what?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Can we talk about this now because this is what I'm...

• 15:47Nilay Patel?

  But let me, let me finish this idea.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, go ahead.

• 15:49Nilay Patel?

  I promise it's gonna get...

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no. I can't wait to hear more about chips.

• 15:51Nilay Patel?

  I'm gonna hit you up soon. It's gonna stay boring for like one more second, but then...

• 15:55Speaker 02

  It's already boring. We're already boring right now.

• 15:57Nilay Patel?

  No, but, so Intel's problem is that its chips are nowhere that matters right now. They're in our laptops, they're not in the phones, they're not in the tablets. And their big opportunity is to beat Qualcomm to the processing that surrounds everything around us. All those Internet of Things things. So they, that little thing is, it is the guts of how you make anything smart. So it's a process, it's a little bit of memory, it's a processor, it's a bunch of sensors. And you can buy it and you can like, I'm a coffee machine vendor and I want to make smart coffee machines.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  And it's like, who do I go to for the processor? Intel or Qualcomm?

• 16:27Nilay Patel?

  Right. Or, or I like, I'm a Kickstarter dude and I want to make a smart whatever. And Intel will just sell me like off the shelf, like this package. And then I will like kickstart something, uh, and then we'll go through that disappointment.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  So is the Internet of Things like sort of a race to become like a thing now? Are these companies like?

• 16:44Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Going to be like, oh, we need to be the company that makes this chip that you want to put inside your door handle? Or like your shirt collar?

• 16:52Nilay Patel?

  That's the, like, the big platform story here, right? It's like, that's why Nvidia was like, here's a boring, or not boring. Was it boring? Can you be so boring that it loops all the way back around somewhat interesting?

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:03Nilay Patel?

  Cause that's what that was. It was like, it was like, wow.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  It was so boring, it was interesting.

• 17:07Nilay Patel?

  And Jen Sun Wong is like a great CEO. He did, he's done interesting things with Nvidia and that's his company. And he's like, but he's just like, he's got this shtick where he's just like, and what you want is for chips to be more powerful than they were.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  And your car dashboard to have texture.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Do you guys know how doomed you are right now? Cause I wrote an article about the Internet of Things.

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Two days ago. And my Twitter feed since then has been non-stop B2B mid-sized corporate consultants sharing the article.

• 17:36Nilay Patel?

  Oh, those are the best people on Twitter.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Oh, man. They... They don't know how to use Twitter, but they know how to share articles that relate to corporate infrastructure.

• 17:46Nilay Patel?

  No, uh, uh, middle managers who are bad at Twitter is like an entire subculture of Twitter.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  In a great Tumblr.

• 17:51Nilay Patel?

  It's just like really bad hashtags, like eggs with bad hashtags.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  Eggs.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's my life right now.

• 17:57Nilay Patel?

  That's who they are.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  They literally are.

• 17:58Nilay Patel?

  And as people, that's who they are. They've collapsed themselves to egg-shaped humanoid who are like surrounded in B2B hashtags. These are the, these are the people of CES, not you. You're great.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  You guys are cool.

• 18:11Nilay Patel?

  You're not an egg.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  You're in the Verge.

• 18:12Nilay Patel?

  You're not an egg, and you're not an egg. That guy hates me. Might be an egg. Don't know, too many hashtags. Hashtag IOT.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Wait, Dieter, you wrote the piece.

• 18:23Nilay Patel?

  B2B solutions vendor.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  I'm Dieter.

• 18:26Nilay Patel?

  Hashtag SMB.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  You wrote the piece.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  I did.

• 18:28Nilay Patel?

  Hashtag network attached storage. Cisco.

• 18:34Nilay Patel?

  He just yells Cisco.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Dieter, talk about the Internet of Things.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  I already did.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  No, but like, give me, all right, Dieter, I'm gonna do this right now.

• 18:41Nilay Patel?

  Guys, remember that part? Sam, I have a question.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Dieter, hype check Internet of Things.

• 18:45Nilay Patel?

  No, you can't, okay.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  I'm not the hype shack.

• 18:47Nilay Patel?

  I would like to stop and like structurally rethink the Vergecast because I have what I would call an existential question about it.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:53Nilay Patel?

  Sam.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Should it continue to exist?

• 18:54Nilay Patel?

  No, Sam, uh, yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  It's the definition of an existential question.

• 18:57Nilay Patel?

  Right. Right.

• 19:01Nilay Patel?

  And I think right now we have a fatal flaw, which is that Sam, our voice of the teen generation, is saying the most business-y things on the show.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:11Nilay Patel?

  It's like you've entered the CES, you've entered this space, and you instantly, you're like, is this the year of consumer drones?

• 19:18Speaker 03

  This is my sixth CES.

• 19:19Nilay Patel?

  Now hype check some stuff. Say some YOLO's things. YOLO words.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  So, uh, tell me more about this IOT. Does it have any good ROI?

• 19:28Nilay Patel?

  I'm worried about you.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Hype check actuarial tables.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  A complete bust.

• 19:33Nilay Patel?

  That's so depressing.

• 19:36Nilay Patel?

  No, I'm just saying, like, it's like you walked in this room and you were like, "Let's talk about the markets."

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, because that's what matters.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 19:44Nilay Patel?

  Wow. See, this is what you're watching in real time.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Why does this show happen? Why does this show happen? Because people want to spend money and people want to buy things and people need to sell things. That's why the show happens. That's why we are here right now.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Sam is becoming Michael J. Fox and now old sitcom. You are Michael P. K.

• 19:59Nilay Patel?

  Sam just did the opposite of the Lloyd Dobler speech.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  No, I just, I want to put this thing in perspective.

• 20:06Nilay Patel?

  Have you, do you know what Say Anything is?

• 20:08Speaker 03

  The band?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Oh my god. I was just gonna say, little baby's all grown up, but he ain't.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Okay, my first CES, I was 19 years old and we worked at Engadget together, Eli. Do you remember that?

• 20:19Nilay Patel?

  I know.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  I am now 24 and this is my sixth year in a row in Vegas. It is like...

• 20:23Nilay Patel?

  It pains me that we have employees who are like 18. Anyway.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  But like, that's, I feel like that's what, really, the underlying message of the show is, is like, these vendors come...

• 20:31Nilay Patel?

  What are you gonna buy?

• 20:32Speaker 03

  What am I gonna buy? I really...

• 20:34Nilay Patel?

  No, like, that's the message, right? What are you gonna buy?

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I thought you were asking me what I'm gonna buy. But if I'm gonna answer that question, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy a rideable in 2015. Like, I'm going to spend them, whatever it is. I don't want to spend a thousand bucks. I want to spend somewhere to five or 600 bucks. I'm gonna buy a rideable and I'm gonna ride that to work. And then I'm gonna buy a consumer drone. Probably GoPro.

• 20:54Nilay Patel?

  Okay. So, what I want you to buy is a DVD. Is that a format that, that you know? Of the movie Say Anything.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 21:03Nilay Patel?

  Have you ever, and I, you, you can watch, it's a great movie.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  So, this movie Say Anything was made in 1989 and Hype Check, I was born in 1990, so it's cool.

• 21:11Nilay Patel?

  You can't, Hype Check, I was, like, my birthday?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Also, you can't say, "This movie say anything," as if people don't know about it.

• 21:19Nilay Patel?

  This, I would say that this quote probably defines the three of us. I'm not gonna say it, because it's such a long...

• 21:26Speaker 03

  No, just read the quote. Read the quote, because I actually don't know the quote.

• 21:28Nilay Patel?

  It's super long. But it's just, it's like, he's, the dude, this is really a show about father and moms.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, you know, we can test it in shorthand. Uh, Sam, where's San Dimas High School and how would you say its football is?

• 21:39Speaker 03

  Uh, they're in California.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  And their football is great.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Ah, damn it.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  You're just the worst.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  Don't mess.

• 21:48Nilay Patel?

  Sorry, it rules. That's the, that's from, okay.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Ah, okay. Go on.

• 21:53Nilay Patel?

  No, I'm saying this is like a generational thing that's happening, right? And I mean that in a really like significant way because my entire theme of like technology in 2015 is nineties are back. And this is like a very Gen X quote from this movie where the dude's, the girlfriend's dad is like, "What do you want to do with your life?" And he's like, "I don't want to buy anything or sell anything or process anything or buy anything that's processed." Like, it's like this whole, like, basically nothing. "I refuse to do anything. I will not engage in the marketplace." That's, that's the core message of saying anything.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  And now the millennial reaction is the exact opposite.

• 22:21Nilay Patel?

  Everything is about what we will spend our money on. And it's like-

• 22:23Speaker 03

  Consumerism.

• 22:24Nilay Patel?

  Consumerism.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, because Gen Xers tried not to sell out and they sucked and put our company in a hole. And now they left millennials like Sam and I to actually have to dig it out. So yeah, I'm talking to you, Gen Xers. Y'all suck.

• 22:35Nilay Patel?

  You're an egg. You're an egg.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  You ruined my life and I graduated in 2008 in a financial crisis.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Not our fault.

• 22:44Nilay Patel?

  Wow, this is getting-

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is your fault.

• 22:45Nilay Patel?

  Super deep.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Don't, don't.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  This is getting too deep. Pull it out of the hole.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no.

• 22:48Nilay Patel?

  Out of the hole.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I can do this all night.

• 22:49Speaker 03

  The conclusion of this discussion is that I should go watch Say Anything.

• 22:53Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's what, okay, first you should do that. But the second, the other bigger, I can, I can make this about CES.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 23:00Nilay Patel?

  I will do it.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  I was gonna, I was gonna try and go pono.

• 23:02Nilay Patel?

  On a curved TV screen.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 23:03Nilay Patel?

  In the comfort of your own home.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  In sun.

• 23:05Nilay Patel?

  While your drone that you got instead of a dog.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  I'm watching, I'm watching. No, the drone is watching the movie and I'm watching the movie through the drone, like it with my VR goggles. That's the future.

• 23:15Nilay Patel?

  Oh, so speaking of crazy goggles, is this on the site yet? It's probably not on the site yet, but it will be soon. Um, surely by the time you listen to this.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Is this a lightsaber thing?

• 23:24Nilay Patel?

  Uh, no, I, so CES is great. So like, two years ago, Oculus, we broke Oculus. Like, we were the first people to put Oculus on the web because Palmer Lucky just knocked on the door of our trailer. I was like, I have this weird duct tape thing that I made. It was a longer conversation than that.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  I just, can we like revisit that for a second? The entire trailer lined up, this, our trailer's not a decent size, but there was a line of humans lined up in it for a tiny room to try out the Oculus Rift.

• 23:50Nilay Patel?

  And it was literally like held together, it was ski goggles with duct tape in the screen, right?

• 23:53Speaker 03

  And everyone that tried it freaked the hell out. It was, that was like, I watched like some sort of tran, like technological transcendence.

• 24:02Nilay Patel?

  Right, and now everyone's doing that in the Gear VR, which is crazy, right? Like, and we're still in the trailer and Palmer Lucky is a billionaire, so our paths have diverged.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll give you guys credit too, because you gave it like best of show, right?

• 24:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  And I remember seeing that early version and while I can admittedly see the future, that early version stinks.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean it was super low res.

• 24:21Nilay Patel?

  Here's what I'm saying.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  But you can see the potential.

• 24:23Nilay Patel?

  The cycle is so fast now, so two years ago dude was just like here like knocking on the door being like, "Do you want to look at this?" Now it's like, it's a big part of Samsung's booth, right? It's like, and like that's a billion dollar thing.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  You can hear the click of his sandals coming closer.

• 24:36Nilay Patel?

  It's actually, the story I'm telling is fundamentally about Samsung, because last year SmartThings was like, "We're not CS, we don't want to spend the money on a big booth, we're a startup, come to this house suite like Airbnb that we put smart locks all over." And now it is literally the center of Samsung's booth.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Just for people that don't know, SmartThings was a company that was just swallowed by Samsung very recently.

• 24:54Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, Samsung, August, but so SmartThings is like, they make the hub that connects to everything. But they were just a startup, and now like their centerpiece of Samsung's like whole show is SmartThings.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if I should even give away the big thing that we've seen.

• 25:08Nilay Patel?

  Then don't.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Oh, you know what, I'm gonna hold it for tomorrow's show. We've seen one more thing that we'll save for tomorrow's show that is nuts. Like VR nuts.

• 25:19Nilay Patel?

  Oh, that's exciting.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so we'll talk about it in tomorrow's show.

• 25:22Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, okay, good, good tease. Hype check, teaser.

• 25:25Speaker 03

  A plant could do it, it's fine.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 25:28Nilay Patel?

  Oh wow, rough. No, so there's like that, the small stuff, and then, so today I'm walking around and I saw like basically four guys who had just shown up to CS, they were holding like a folder full of their own flyers and wearing like Get Lucky mirror masks, and I was like, "I gotta know what that is." And they like had no, they were just here to like show people the product they'd made. It was like a crazy product, right? They are about to start a Kickstarter, but like they had, they built an app for a Windows phone, and the Windows phone sits here, and this mirror visor comes down in front of you, and it projects augmented reality over like the world. Yeah. Like, and it like out, like out, it looks like it's far out. Did you try it? Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I tried it.

• 26:06Nilay Patel?

  It's, it, you know, it's.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Works.

• 26:08Nilay Patel?

  They, they clearly need to continue.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  But no, the crazy thing about it is you, you, you.

• 26:12Nilay Patel?

  There's a mouse.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  To point the recticle, to point the mouse pointer, but then, you know, the phone is in the visor. So you, how do you like get it to work? You click your jaw.

• 26:20Nilay Patel?

  And a bone, a bone conduction.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Bone conduction, that's how it clicks.

• 26:24Nilay Patel?

  And it's like, these guys are just here. They're just like doing it.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  They don't have a booth?

• 26:27Nilay Patel?

  It's like, it's four dudes from China just walking around.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:30Nilay Patel?

  Well, I mean, we, we may, we cover them. I think Kwame did a story that will go up soon, but like, that's like the other part of CS. Like, there's all this crap and then there's people who are just here. And what's like this, the thing about the show, three or four people have said this to me now. It's like, it, the, the announcements here are like, in many ways, whatever. But to actually just get all of these people together at once is so valuable. Because you're, you're just around the people who are making these decisions and you're having those conversations.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:57Nilay Patel?

  And then you drink way too much and you regret it for so long. What, what else on our topic, Mr.?

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Um.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Mind if I circle back and talk about?

• 27:04Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  This one thing really quick though?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Okay, cause I've got.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  So you've got to connect to these.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  I've got a thing after you're done that's gonna take a while.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  It's gonna, oh, it connects to Palm. Don't worry.

• 27:12Nilay Patel?

  Oh.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I spoiled it, Palm. Oh no. Everyone else, the ingadgets right over there and they're rushing to write about Palm. Um.

• 27:23Nilay Patel?

  Now that they are, now they are. Something is happening.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  I, for me, I'm feeling like my big theme in the show that I'm starting to realize is, uh, we didn't finish it, but do it for us.

• 27:35Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  And it is.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Everywhere. I mean, any VR company, I saw OSVR yesterday.

• 27:41Nilay Patel?

  Yes.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Which is the very definition of, hey, this could make us a billion dollars. You want to do that for us? You can have some of the money. Is OS, oh, thank you. OSVR is like, kind of like Android for VR is how they're promoting it. And it's by Razer, who you might know as the company that makes keyboards.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't even know that.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:59Nilay Patel?

  Razer shows up with something insane every year.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:02Nilay Patel?

  But this year was no hardware, right? It was just the.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Well, no, they have hardware too, which is also open source.

• 28:07Nilay Patel?

  Wow.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  So you could like modify the hardware, throw your name on it, sell it. Like, it's, it's pretty bold idea. Does it feel good on your head right now? Not really.

• 28:16Nilay Patel?

  Tried it?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. But it, but it's an interesting thing. And a lot of the drone things, uh, I, Palm is another one of these things.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Well, but so to the, the VR thing.

• 28:28Nilay Patel?

  It's everywhere and nobody knows exactly what to do with it other than like show you ads. And everybody that's saying, "Hey Oculus, where's your consumer product?" My attitude, I think, was this on the last broadcast that says, "My attitude to Oculus is it's cool, guys. Just keep working on it." I'd rather, they don't, they don't need to rush to get that out of the market.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  There's no rush because they're the only actual company that's doing this.

• 28:49Nilay Patel?

  They're not the only actual company.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Well, more importantly, you can torpedo.

• 28:52Nilay Patel?

  No, a bunch of other people are chasing it, but like, I don't think anybody else is as close as they are to getting it right.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  I would argue that they have the lead because they're backed by Facebook now.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Oh, of course they do, but you want to release number two. If you're at that company.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  DK2's out, right?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Well, no, I mean a real release. You wait for the first major release and then you kill it violently with whatever you have. Because if you let that come out, you release the better version and then you, I mean, you just destroy it during Christmas.

• 29:17Speaker 03

  They, they released the Kickstarter version, right? That was DK1.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  These are all dev kits, so these aren't real.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  They, so Oculus doesn't have a consumer product yet, right?

• 29:27Nilay Patel?

  No.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  And they have no need to announce one until they know who they need to destroy.

• 29:31Nilay Patel?

  Right. And actually, the other thing that's happening in this show, which is, we have not talked about it all, it's been on the site, is that there are any number of vendors here hawking, uh, what they, where there's 360 degree cameras?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:43Nilay Patel?

  And there's 720 degree cameras, which just, just is like, you don't understand how numbers work. So a 360 degree camera is like, it goes all the way around like this and a 720 gets the whole sphere. And it's like, that is not how degrees work. You, how are you an engineer?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  You did not play 280 degree snowboarding.

• 30:03Nilay Patel?

  Like, I don't know if your camera works as well as you think it did.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  Great game for the N64.

• 30:08Nilay Patel?

  Uh, because you don't, you literally don't understand the math of circles.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Wasn't this on Android like four years ago? I remember doing a photo sphere of the old, of the old Verge office.

• 30:17Nilay Patel?

  No, no, no, but like, no, no, no, it's like, whatever, that was garbage.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  These are like all at once, you can film a movie.

• 30:22Nilay Patel?

  Photo spheres are like basically garbage, they're eggs, they're eggs with hashtags. They're hashtag eggs.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Hashtag eggs.

• 30:26Nilay Patel?

  B2B. Hashtag hashtag egg. Uh, that's my, that's, that's my new word for garbage. Instead of garbage in 2015, I would like everyone to say hashtag hashtag egg.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  But it's actually a hashtag followed by the word hashtag.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, hashtag, hashtag eggs.

• 30:38Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, that's garbage.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 30:40Nilay Patel?

  Man, I gotta take out this hashtag.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  The first hashtag is hashtag hashtag.

• 30:45Nilay Patel?

  Pretty much, worst episode ever.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Best.

• 30:47Nilay Patel?

  No, what was I saying? So, these cameras, they literally record everything around them in once. So, you can like, move them around a room and you create like, the immersive.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Like, hold it on a stick?

• 30:59Nilay Patel?

  Right, because VR has like, the content problem.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:02Nilay Patel?

  Right? Which is, how are we gonna make this stuff? And there are lots of...

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Brian ordered a thing about that, by the way.

• 31:07Nilay Patel?

  Right, and so there are lots of ideas about how you're gonna... How movie directors are like, "Make immersive movies and everything will be a video game."

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Which, they're crazy. There's... Well, I don't wanna spoil it, because my billion dollar business is gonna get me rich. Because, one, I'm the only person on this table who believes in VR. And, I also believe in 720 recording. Because, I... No, I'm convinced. But I think, thinking about it like a traditional movie is the wrong thing.

• 31:31Nilay Patel?

  I think, right.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  You can't... It has to be flat.

• 31:35Nilay Patel?

  I think it's interesting that like...

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I'll go into it.

• 31:37Nilay Patel?

  You're bad at degrees too.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  No, no, no!

• 31:38Nilay Patel?

  My 720 recording has to be flat, it's not a sentence that makes sense.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So like, music, going to venues, singing things in a concert, is ideal for 720, because you're not doing lots of cuts. And you won't have to worry about disorientation. And you're using the 720 to create an atmosphere.

• 31:51Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  That's where 720 works. When you put it into a movie, which is... The entire point of film is to control the viewer's eyes.

• 31:59Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  It's like, a big difference between film versus video games.

• 32:02Nilay Patel?

  Oh, but, okay. There's ways that you can direct that thing, where people can look around and like, trick the human into like, following your lead.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:11Nilay Patel?

  Gizmodo did get a post on this today.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  For sure, again, this is all video game technique that has been learned over the past 20 years. Where it's like, "You'll be rewarded 500 points if you hold a Y, which will force you to look over here." It's like, "Oh, okay, great." But, I think, I think the early things that are gonna do crazy well on VR will be live concerts, live shows.

• 32:31Nilay Patel?

  Right. Taking you to other places, right?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:34Nilay Patel?

  No, I get that. I'm just saying, like, the other... That's all happening, and like, what kinds of content we make? And then, how do we make it? And there's like, a big... I hear a lot of people talking about doing machinima stuff. Where you can create video game environments and tell the stories in there, because they can be rendered as the player moves around. But then, there's this other thing, which is like, what is the camcorder of VR? Right, so your kids play, and you have this like...

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Ohhh.

• 32:57Nilay Patel?

  You have a 720 camera, and you're like...

• 33:00Speaker 03

  It's like, how do you record moments that you can then experience in a virtual reality headset?

• 33:04Nilay Patel?

  Right, or you can like, send it to grandma, and then she's watching your kids play with you. And then she very politely...

• 33:09Speaker 02

  By the way, imagine your grandma wearing a VR headset right now. Just do it.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  It's wild!

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Is there, is there a future-

• 33:15Nilay Patel?

  I mean, there's, that's a Tumblr that exists. And if it doesn't, one of the B2Bs strategists in my Twitter feed started immediately.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Is there a future where we like, so now you like, you take a photo and you Instagram it, it goes on Instagram and it like, is on a flat screen. Is there a future where everyone has these 720 degree cameras and everyone like, puts on their VR goggles and like-

• 33:35Nilay Patel?

  No, so I think the most promising thing-

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Sam, you're driving, no!

• 33:40Nilay Patel?

  AT&T's gonna start running "Don't VR and Drive" commercials.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  B2B, back to B2B.

• 33:47Nilay Patel?

  How is that B2B?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Cause you said AT&T.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 33:52Nilay Patel?

  Will you just-

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Just move on.

• 33:54Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. AT&T is a B in every definition of that word.

• 34:00Nilay Patel?

  And then the 2 is to a C, the consumer.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  B to C.

• 34:06Nilay Patel?

  There's no other B, unless you think that you are a business.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  I'm a business, man.

• 34:10Nilay Patel?

  No, I didn't want you to make that joke and you did and I knew you were gonna make it.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  You lobbed the ball to me and I had to hit it.

• 34:16Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, and I, now I feel shame.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  And it was out at first.

• 34:19Nilay Patel?

  Has anyone ever thrown in like, a soft pitched softball and the feeling, they feel ashamed?

• 34:24Speaker 03

  I dumped it.

• 34:25Nilay Patel?

  That's the cartoon that's my life.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Guys, can we hear about Palm because I worry that David's skin might fall off.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  I'm fine, I don't need to talk about it.

• 34:31Nilay Patel?

  My last VR piece is I think it's gonna be phones. I think Samsung is so smart to partner with Oculus and make the Gear VR and make the phone display, switch it over and be as good as Oculus display. Cause then you can just do that.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Can I just give like, the hashtag team perspective on this thing?

• 34:46Nilay Patel?

  You think it's gonna be dedicated?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Hold on, hold on, let me, let me, let me give-

• 34:51Nilay Patel?

  Let me drop some B2B knowledge on you.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  No, false.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Give me with that team swing.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  So like, so, let's say it's like, I don't know, it's a Thursday night, me and my roommate are like, oh, let's watch a movie. I Chromecast some, I'll buy the interview on YouTube and then I'll Chromecast it.

• 35:06Nilay Patel?

  Because you love freedom of speech.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Yes. Is there, is there a future where like, we all have VR headsets and we're just like, oh, let's just like, airplay this movie on our phones, drop it into our faces, and we sit on the couch and watch a movie in VR?

• 35:21Speaker 01

  It's college kids, I keep telling you, it's-

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Is that, is that gonna be a thing?

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:26Nilay Patel?

  It only makes sense if it's phones, that's what I'm like-

• 35:28Speaker 01

  No, so, I don't think it's phones-

• 35:29Nilay Patel?

  This show has been about trying to get you to wear dumb shit on your head for like five years.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  But dumb-

• 35:34Nilay Patel?

  That is the dream of CES.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  But, there's dumb shit, and that's like VR, and then there's putting your dirty ass phone in a sleeve that you strapped to your head. That is, one, gross.

• 35:46Nilay Patel?

  Wait, what is this?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  But, two-

• 35:47Nilay Patel?

  Show me your phone, Chris.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, just use like a hand sanitizer.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Because I'm like touching it all day.

• 35:53Nilay Patel?

  Also, do you know that you, like, when you make phone calls, you take that dirty ass phone-

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, the phone is on.

• 35:57Nilay Patel?

  And put it directly against-

• 35:58Speaker 01

  This is gross. If I have something on my-

• 36:00Nilay Patel?

  Wait, how is that gross?

• 36:01Speaker 03

  You're already holding it in your hand.

• 36:02Nilay Patel?

  Have you ever made a phone call?

• 36:03Speaker 03

  And you put it next to your face.

• 36:04Nilay Patel?

  You literally, like, rub that on your head.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  And it's also, it's in a case.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  I just, I have trouble-

• 36:11Nilay Patel?

  That's your argument?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Also, the other thing is like-

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Actually, that's a really compelling argument.

• 36:14Nilay Patel?

  It's just a super bad argument.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Ugh!

• 36:17Speaker 03

  I just, I have a lot of trouble envisioning a future where we sit there and like, we like be, you know, we be like intimate, or whatever, and like, you're like, no, you're like, you're like watching a thing in like a strap-on-face object.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  No, stop!

• 36:33Speaker 03

  It's like, what future is that?

• 36:34Nilay Patel?

  Hype check VR, VR intimacy.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  It's weird, like, I read Adi's piece, and she's like, she's like, "Gear VR is great, it works, the screen is high-res, the apps are cool, like, the demos are cool, but it's like, who the hell is gonna use this thing, like, 'Hold on, let me strap on my headset, derp a derp', and then it's like, oh, I'm in VR."

• 36:53Nilay Patel?

  If you, if you just did a find and replace of VR with 3D glasses, that is the story-

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and where are 3D TVs right now, Neelai? Nowhere. Well, they're everywhere, but nobody's talking about it. Yeah, but they're everywhere, no one cares.

• 37:05Nilay Patel?

  You just emphatically made the point I just made at me as though I was dumb. You just like mansplained my own words at me.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. What, so then, educate me, Neelai, educate me.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  You're saying the same thing!

• 37:19Nilay Patel?

  Stop it, stop repeating what I'm saying like I'm dumber than you.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Guys.

• 37:23Nilay Patel?

  Let's talk about Palm.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Let's talk about Palm.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  This isn't a CES story. TCL, which bought the Palm brand, is everywhere here.

• 37:30Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  FYI.

• 37:31Nilay Patel?

  They are everywhere here. They have a bigger booth. Like, the big story of CES is you watch companies from, like, lower on the chain, like, turn in... Like, Sony used to be like the big prestige brand here, and then Sony is failing, and now Samsung occupies that space in the brand continuum, which is a hashtag that I will use soon. But, like, Samsung moved into that space. Like, they have become the dominant consumer electronics brand. And then you see all the... We wrote a story about it last year. There's a wave of Chinese companies here at CES that are trying to occupy the space that Samsung used to occupy for Sony, and they're getting slightly better at it. And the way that I'm measuring it is like by where they have located their booth babes. So, like, two years ago, the booth babes were like out in front, like, "We're booth... we're naked,

• 38:16Nilay Patel?

  hi." And then they're like, last year, they put some clothes on them, and this year, now, they're just... the TVs are showing booth babes, and there are no actual booth babes. And next year, it'll be like virtual reality machinima booth babes, and then there will be no booth babes.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  I'm glad there's one more step. Thank God.

• 38:30Nilay Patel?

  I hope there's one more step. But it's really... It's like funny to watch them get better at, like, talking to the Western audience that they're not as literate with, because their products are as good, or if not better, in many cases, but they're learning how to market to this audience. And their booths are just getting bigger and more expensive, and they're literally just trying to, like, turn into the next Samsung. That's the opportunity for them. Anyway, TCL, which is Alcatel.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Right. So, they bought what was left of Palm, which was literally nothing but the brand. Because LG had WebOS, the patents went to Qualcomm.

• 38:58Nilay Patel?

  Right.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Uh, there's nothing left. And, uh, we've, you know, it got figured out that this was doing it because they screwed up the shell companies. Anyway, they finally announced what they're planning on doing with Palm, and it's a disaster. It's... It's... It... Here's... I'm gonna read the press release. "Palm has always carried a lot of effect and emotions. That's why TCL has set the direction to rebuild the brand involving Palm's very own community, making it the largest-scale crowdsourced project ever seen in the industry."

• 39:30Nilay Patel?

  This is the ultimate, and we got halfway there. Now, you figure it out.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  No, they didn't even get halfway there. They just like... All they did is they went to a graveyard, exhumed a corpse of Grandma that we all love, and they're like, "You guys remember Grandma? Make her dance."

• 39:43Nilay Patel?

  But this show has been about dancing corpses for two days now.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  Dieter is a-

• 39:48Nilay Patel?

  I'm not even kidding.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  You talked about dancing corpses yesterday?

• 39:50Nilay Patel?

  Yesterday, yesterday the dead bodies were in driverless cars.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Dieter, do people know that you're a diehard Palm fan? Because you have a lot of feels about this.

• 39:57Nilay Patel?

  Wait, why don't you tell them what to do? This is your opportunity.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Can you tell me why you care about Palm?

• 40:04Nilay Patel?

  Huh?

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Like, why?

• 40:05Nilay Patel?

  Why?

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, other than like, "Oh, cool, Lisa Simpson, you know, right on the screen."

• 40:09Nilay Patel?

  Palm definitely had all of the right ideas about what these operating systems should be in webOS.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  They were really ahead of the time.

• 40:15Nilay Patel?

  Like, in 2008?

• 40:16Speaker 02

  They had, they had all the right ideas- They had one, could not execute on any of them.

• 40:19Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  That's the problem.

• 40:20Nilay Patel?

  Palm was basically like John Rubinstein from Apple, like insisting that he would refuse to use an iPhone because he didn't want to get tainted by the competition, and then watching the iPhone just blow him out of the water.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  No, that's not why they lost.

• 40:31Nilay Patel?

  Well, they lost because of Verizon.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:33Nilay Patel?

  But like, his whole move, like, the dominant trend in smartphones is now they're huge, and Ruby insisted to like, "I'm gonna make them smaller." That was his move.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Were you?

• 40:43Nilay Patel?

  The Palm Pixie, that was-

• 40:45Speaker 03

  It was tiny.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Were you the person, when the iPhone, the very first iPhone came out, Engadget did like a series of reviews with lots of different people, and somebody on it said like, "Oh, it's good, but I think I'm gonna go back to my Palm."

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, Josh returned his iPhone.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  That was Josh's Palm.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, he went to the store, returned his iPhone.

• 41:02Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, he was, he was really mad about it.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:05Nilay Patel?

  No, I mean, the, the rich history of, of the new media is Palm fanboys.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  AKA Dieter Bone.

• 41:13Nilay Patel?

  Like, it's, it's all right there, if you like, you just peel away the surface. It's people who are pretty mad about Palm.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  They're, they're planning on launching a massive open source project. They have no idea how to do it, or maybe they do-

• 41:23Nilay Patel?

  How is it open source?

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Well, that open source, open something. Open, open, yay, remember open?

• 41:27Nilay Patel?

  So what, an open storm, open source brainstorm sesh is like not actually open source. Like, what is the source that you're opening?

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Dieter, what happens to Palm?

• 41:35Nilay Patel?

  Here are some tweets.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  What happens?

• 41:36Speaker 03

  What happens to what the, the thing that is Palm now?

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Uh, Alcatel gets to keep calling their tiny phone the Pixie without anybody suing them. And, uh, this, uh, project, uh, a bunch of people get really excited. They make something that doesn't work, and we forget about it in a couple of years.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  And then TCL just has Palm, and they're just-

• 41:54Speaker 01

  And eventually sells it to somewhere else.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  And it's, sells it to Dieter.

• 41:57Nilay Patel?

  Here's the mashup. Mozilla buys, does something. They rebrand Firefox OS as Palm.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  They could.

• 42:05Nilay Patel?

  That's, you just collapse all of the-

• 42:06Speaker 03

  It's a very good idea.

• 42:07Nilay Patel?

  And then, and then they sell that to like the MIGO Foundation, which emerges and realizes-

• 42:12Nilay Patel?

  Because those are like threads of CES every year. It's like enormous companies have started a coalition to do something. We'll call it the Open Handset Alliance.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  You'll call it.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  That's the Android.

• 42:23Nilay Patel?

  That's actually a really, really valuable one.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  There was the UHD Alliance for TVs.

• 42:27Nilay Patel?

  The UHD Alliance.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  And now it's the SUD Alliance.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, no, it's still the UHD Alliance, and then apparently they've got an enemy.

• 42:34Nilay Patel?

  I would like to apologize for talking trash about the Open Handset Alliance.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:36Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, only as a protective measure.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  It's still, it's still.

• 42:39Nilay Patel?

  Because of people who use Twitter.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  It's not a real alliance. It's like, it's Google and a bunch of people that Google has cowed into submission.

• 42:48Nilay Patel?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 42:49Nilay Patel?

  What do you think an alliance is?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Ah, fair.

• 42:54Nilay Patel?

  It's Google is the hegemon.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:56Nilay Patel?

  It's great.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  They should call it the Open Handset Hegemony.

• 43:00Nilay Patel?

  We're just getting deep. I don't know if we're talking about international relations or like a really stupid.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Gizmos.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  We're talking about Gizmos.

• 43:06Nilay Patel?

  Really stupid like risk strategy.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Gizmo Handset Alliance.

• 43:09Nilay Patel?

  Google should put them all, all the purple ones.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Hype check hegemony.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  What?

• 43:14Nilay Patel?

  Oh, God.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  What did you even say?

• 43:18Nilay Patel?

  Hegemony.

• 43:19Speaker 03

  What is hegemony?

• 43:21Nilay Patel?

  There's like, you're surrounded by technology.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Go watch Say Anything and then we'll talk about it.

• 43:25Nilay Patel?

  And then we'll do foreign policy.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  The next Vergecast in New York, we will have a thorough discussion about Say Anything.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 03

  I would like to have a thorough discussion about.

• 43:32Nilay Patel?

  It's a really good.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Okay, we only have like four more minutes, and I think that the last thing, it's a non-CES story. But I have been told that this is the most important technology story of the next decade.

• 43:46Nilay Patel?

  Mozilla buys Palm.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  I hear that Nike might actually really, for really real, make the self-lacing shoes.

• 43:55Nilay Patel?

  Right. We have, so I want to, I want to start with a personal story. I think we have that on the site, right?

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:02Nilay Patel?

  I am really bad at tying my shoes.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  I noticed yesterday. Fun fact, Niall Patel cannot tie his shoes.

• 44:08Nilay Patel?

  I just, I don't understand. I mean, I get it. The basics are clear to me. That is not a problem.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, why is it 2015 and we still tie our shoes?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  I don't, I, I wear campers with little elastic.

• 44:20Nilay Patel?

  That is like the, the beginning of the worst keynote in history.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Attention teens, the time is now.

• 44:28Nilay Patel?

  It's like a, it's like a made for TV or...

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Sam, I want you to do a commercial for a product where, "Do you have problems tying your shoes?" And it's just you like, "Oh, I can't do it."

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Like, "Our Where Did The Soda Go?" That awesome subreddit.

• 44:42Nilay Patel?

  But the thing that Dieter just, the fake infomercial that Dieter just made fun of is my life.

• 44:48Nilay Patel?

  Because I do it, I'm like, "This time..."

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Having trouble cooking pancakes? What about pouring your drink? We have the solution for you.

• 44:53Nilay Patel?

  Sam. Good. Get some chill, bro.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Okay, so, in the movie Back to the Future 2,

• 44:59Nilay Patel?

  I didn't finish your story.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Marty McFly travels to the year 2015.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  That movie came out before you were even born. What are you doing?

• 45:05Nilay Patel?

  Yeah. Hype check your birthday.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  June 19th, 1990, it's fine, I'm 24 years old, so...

• 45:12Nilay Patel?

  Stop saying how old you are.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  It's fine, so, so Marty McFly travels to 2015.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  I want to hear about the shoes.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  And, the vision of 2015 is obviously flying cars, 3D Jaws, the Cubs win the World Series, and also, there are, there is a pair of shoes called the Nike Air Mags. And Marty McFly is sitting in the DeLorean, and he puts on the shoes, and they, I don't know what is so funny, but I'm gonna keep talking.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  What is funny is that you are... The Cubs win the World Series.

• 45:40Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm...

• 45:40Speaker 01

  And that's the part you remember.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Yes, I've seen the movie, I've seen the trilogy probably six times.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Who directed the new Jaws in that movie?

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Max Spielberg, Steven Spielberg's son.

• 45:50Speaker 03

  Oh, true.

• 45:51Nilay Patel?

  Oh my god.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  Hold on, hold on.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 45:53Nilay Patel?

  Can we?

• 45:53Speaker 03

  So, so Marty McFly puts on these shoes, they lace themselves, and everyone is like, "Oh my god, that is the future," right?

• 46:00Nilay Patel?

  And who's everyone? The viewers of the movie or the people of the movie?

• 46:03Speaker 03

  No, no, no, literally everyone that exists on planet Earth is like, "2015 is the year of the hoverboards, which we basically kind of already got, but you need a gigantic copper platform."

• 46:12Nilay Patel?

  That's not basically almost getting anything.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  We just showed a video about the importance of just lights.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  So, anyway, so he puts on these shoes.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Everyone on planet Earth has a priority.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  He puts on these shoes, you've all seen Back to the Future 2.

• 46:25Nilay Patel?

  Hoverboards are almost here, but the whole world has to be repaved in copper.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Correct. So Marty McFly puts on the shoes.

• 46:30Nilay Patel?

  It's like small implementation detail.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  They lace themselves, and for the last... 20, 25 years.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 46:36Speaker 03

  Everyone is like, "We're gonna get these self-lacing shoes." And last February, so February of 2015, like about a year ago, Tinker Hatfield, who is one of the designers of the Nike shoes, he designed the Jordan ones, the twos, the threes, the fours, the fives, basically all the Jordans that matter. He also designed the Air Mags that came out. And for those of you that don't know, Nike released Air Mags on eBay. There was like 1,600 pairs. They were all auctioned off, but they didn't self-lace. And everyone was like, "Okay, so we'll wait till 2015."

• 47:05Nilay Patel?

  I'm gonna, can I just hit pause?

• 47:06Speaker 03

  No, no, I'm almost done.

• 47:07Nilay Patel?

  I know, it's not that I, it's not, I want you to finish, I really do. It's important to me. I just want you to stop using the word "everyone" in exactly the way that you're using it.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  We also have to, we have to wrap. We have another shoot coming up.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Okay, case in point, self-lacing Air Mags are coming out this year, and I am very excited. And I would argue-

• 47:25Nilay Patel?

  I think also case in point was misused there, but I'm with you.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Also, thank God we had all that context. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to follow the story.

• 47:31Nilay Patel?

  Is Trey here? Is our video producer here? Trey, can we get a cut of Back to the Future 2, like narrated by Sam while it's happening? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, you should do a riff track of Back to the Future 2.

• 47:43Nilay Patel?

  No, it's just like-

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Just a summary.

• 47:44Nilay Patel?

  Back to the Future 2 as explained by Sam. And like, it's just a movie about shoes and the desire of people around the shoes.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Here's what I'll say. When these shoes come out, it will be the, like, every news organization will be talking about these shoes.

• 48:00Nilay Patel?

  Yeah, they're the ultimate local news product.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  No, and like CNN and Fox and The Verge.com and every other tech- and every other news site is gonna be like, "Oh my God, the future's here."

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Guys, Trey's half-video smile says that, one, that video is not being made. And two, it is time to wrap. So, I don't know if you know this, but CES is happening, and we are covering it all the time. And Sam's here to tell us where we can read about it.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  You can read about CES on theverge.com/CES. You can also watch all of our awesome videos on our YouTube channel, which is theverge.com/youtube.

• 48:36Nilay Patel?

  There are so many Sam Sheffers.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  We just hit 500,000 subscribers on YouTube, and we are celebrating that, and it is awesome. You can also follow The Verge- On Twitter, we are at Verge. I am at SamSheffer. He is at Reckless. He is at Backlon. He is at Plant. You can also follow us on Snapchat. We are TheRealVerge on Snapchat.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  And that's the one thing that you should follow.

• 48:55Speaker 03

  And that's the one and only thing you should follow.

• 48:58Nilay Patel?

  No! Our traffic comes from Facebook!

• 49:02Speaker 03

  You should also go on Facebook.com/verge and like us there to get all of the news from theverge.com in your Facebook feed, because who uses Facebook anymore besides for news?

• 49:12Nilay Patel?

  Do you just bow? I'm very worried about you. I'm very worried about this new corporate SamSheffer.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Thank you for listening. Goodbye.

• 49:18Nilay Patel?

  Rock and roll, whatever.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. Bye!

• 49:21Nilay Patel?

  Why? That's not a good touch, Chris, either!