How we really feel about the iPhone Duo | Livestream

iPhone Duo reviews are out today and... it's complicated. David Pierce, Nilay Patel and senior smart phone reviewer Allison Johnson talk through The Verge's review and answer your questions LIVE. Further reading: The iPhone Duo is a messy, expensive, good time iPhone Duo review: messy, expensive fun Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 2:17Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of nose typing. Everybody's doing it. It's the new revolutionary input mechanism for the iPod, the iPhone Duo. I'm your friend David Pierce. I am here in the studio with two iPhone Duos and two iPhone Duo reviewers, Neelai Patel and Allison Johnson. Welcome, friends.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Hello. Nice to be here.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Hello, David.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Neelai has become a nightmare in the course of reviewing the iPhone Duo.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  I've slept so little. It's good. It's gonna be great.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  So, the review's out. It's been a big day full of reviews. I'm actually curious, you've both reviewed a lot of phones over the years, and I think it's been a while, at least for me, since I have had so little guess what a bunch of reviewers were gonna say going in. And I know one of the things as a reviewer that's weird is like, what if I'm the only one who shares this opinion? Has this been a weird thing over the last week or so? Like, new phone, big new ideas, what if I'm the only one who feels the way that I do?

• 3:11Speaker 01

  I think so. I mean, and a foldable phone is so variable in how people are gonna use it. How much you use the inner screen, what kinds of things you do that work on the inner screen. So, yeah, it was a real kind of wild card waking up this morning and be like, oh, what did everyone else think?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are lucky because we were talking to each other.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  True. Yeah.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  So, at least I knew we weren't nuts.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Like, I had that one locked down.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  A little bit of sanity check is helpful.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Or nuts in the right way.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  I, you know, it's like we have the same angle as like five other reviewers. Like, we have the same angle as Joanna. We have almost the same thumbnail and headline as Marquez. So, I promise you, we did not coordinate that.

• 3:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Although, I will say the YouTube A/B testing chose against me. The two headlines we chose were like, the standard one, like messy expense, whatever that headline is, whatever set of words. And then my preferred one, which was iPhone Duo review, emotional.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  I think the problem was it didn't say emotional in all caps. That's the real problem.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Our, uh...

• 4:12Speaker 00

  And it's you sobbing in the thumbnail.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, our head of video, Kevin, was like, but you're not emotional enough. And I was like, this is as emotional as I get. It's a first generation product.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  It would've done numbers. I'm just saying.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  But like, everyone had that same, oh, this is a really fun thing to play with. You should wait. And that seems down the line. Where things are different, and because it's a foldable and it's really, it's like how you use it is just gonna change the experience. I got drastically worse battery life than everyone else.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Oh, interesting.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  And I think it's because I had it open all the time.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yeah. I mean, A, makes logical sense, and B, is sort of a weird cautionary tale about this thing, that it's like, more than most, like, how you use it physically will change the experience of the battery all day. But neither of you got what I would call like, good battery life, which is kind of a bummer.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not for a brand new iPhone out of the box, you know, like Pro Mac style, no?

• 5:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you look at Marquez or you look at David Amell, they're like, we love the battery life on this thing. Incredible, impressive battery life. I'm like, you had it closed. I know what happened here. You used a little bitty phone.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  It's the open versus closed that we most need to talk about. This has been like the number one thing on everybody's minds. It's the, it's the main thing everybody's reckoning within all of these reviews. And I think the first question you are confronted by the minute you like pick up this thing and hold it is, is this thing the right size? And I actually feel like you two might slightly differ on this one. So, I wanna, I wanna dig into this. They went with the passport, the passport size, we're doing the wide fold thing. It's like almost the size of the Samsung Z Fold 8, which everybody has really liked. Allison, what do you make of the actual size and shape of this thing? Did Apple do this correctly?

• 5:55Speaker 01

  I think, I'm on board with the passport shape now. Like, I like everybody else, you know, earlier this year, we started seeing like renders of these, and it was like, that looks goofy. That looks like a goofy phone. And then you pick it up and you're like, no, actually, this makes a lot of sense. It's pretty nice. So, I'm on board with that.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  That was everyone's reaction to the Z Fold 8, by the way. Like, it was the funniest thing. Everybody was like, that seems kind of... And then you hold it and it's like, oh.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  You really do go through the stages of grief or something. But, so I'm on board with that. This phone in particular is heavy, and it's a little thicker than the Z Fold 8.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  It is heavy.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  So, when you're...

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Like, it looks heavy, so it doesn't sort of read as heavy when you pick up, but it is.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  This is a light, thin tablet, I guess. You close it, you're like, this is heavy. It's a heavy phone. So, yeah, I got a lot of questions from the iPhone Mini crew. Shout out to my people. You know, is this like, it's a small screen phone? And like, it is not. I can't say that enough or like loud enough. It is a heavy phone with a tiny screen.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  There was definitely a contingent of iPhone Mini stans who were like, maybe I can get everything I want out of this phone. And like, I'm so sorry to tell all of you.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  The world has left you behind.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Not a little bit.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  No, I'm so sorry. My people, we can't, no.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  The app ecosystem has left you behind. This, it is a heavy phone, and Apple definitely had to make some sort of trade off between size and weight.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  It's too small.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  And yeah, your argument is they made the wrong trade off.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  They made the wrong trade off. I don't think this outer screen is useful enough.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  And that means, this is why I had it open all the time. I was constantly like, well, I can't read this whole email, so I'm gonna open the phone.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Would you stretch it in both dimensions, wider and taller?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  I think...

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Because now we got a big ass phone. It's like, you, this is the problem. You run, this is, this is about as big as you can get before at some point in some orientation, you're gonna be like, this thing is preposterous.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Apple's very proud of the aspect ratio and the fact that it's like in a piece of A4 paper, and it opens and it's exactly the same. And all of this is very clever, and in practical reality, the cleverness of the aspect ratios matching does not overcome the uselessness of the outer display. And I say useless, that's like too mean. It's, you can use it. I've been using the phone. But if you are used to a portrait phone, running big portrait phone apps, you're like, well, this is pretty tiny and not very useful.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  The shot in the review video that got me was the messages app. Where you open up the messages app, it pops up the keyboard and the, you know, the Chrome at the top, and you can see a text.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's one text in view, and it's like, okay, this just isn't enough space.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we got a question in our AMA that was like, here's this long list of things I wanna do, and I can separate them into two categories. And one is anything you're doing where you're doing input. Can I make a quick note? Can I reply to a text? Can I change a setting? That, oh, that's fine on this display. The keyboard is a fine size. And you're like, make a note, send a text. Anything where you need to read and react or consume any information, you're like, this screen is too small, especially if you're trying to do that interactively. So, it's two Slack messages. It's, I wanna leave a comment on a Google Doc, which is a thing that we wanted to do all week, not happening on this display. So, then you open it, and now you're like, I'm holding a tablet with two hands, and I'm having that whole experience, and this tablet is not an iPad,

• 9:15Speaker 02

  which is the single biggest thing I think everyone needs to understand about this. Apple looked at the iPad and said, no.

• 9:22Speaker 00

  So, which, which brings me to a game we're gonna play later on in this episode called, should this have been an iPad?

• 9:27Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  For the second Apple product in a row, the question is, should this have been an iPad?

• 9:32Speaker 02

  They looked at their own tablet, their decade old tablet and its whole ecosystem, and went, no.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  I think that is bananas, just to spoil that. But before we get to that, I think one of the things that has come up a lot in comments, it came up in the AMA, and you have both sort of alluded to it in your testing, is the, the idea of maybe a foldable in general, but particularly this foldable in this style. Changing your relationship to your phone. And Allison, this is the thing you and I talk about all the time, right? Like, how do you change the shape of the device to change your relationship to it? And that's your like, you want desperately to get rid of your phone and just use an Apple Watch, which is like slightly insane. But then this is like, I think it was David Amel who was posting that this turned into a much more task oriented device for him. He was like, I open it up, I do a thing, and then I close it. And there's something meaningful about it and it's done. And I think a lot of our audience actually really responds to that idea.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  Have you guys found that? Like you said a link to this, like, I just don't use this phone quite the same way?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  I think you have to, for me, I would have to go in with that intention because I did find like, if I was in the back of an Uber scrolling on the outer screen, I was like, this is kind of uncomfortable, I don't like it. And I put the phone away. If that's some kind of win for like my sanity, I don't know.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Hollywood is betting on vertical micro dramas to save it. And this phone is gonna kill that whole plan.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  There's so many micro drama apps on this phone. That's another story for another day.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Watch out, real short, the Duo came to take your business away. That's like what this phone is like.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, not being a vertical video person, I think maybe kind of changed my experience with it. I do think I, this would be a phone where I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna leave it at home and I'm gonna go exist in the world with the cellular Apple Watch. I'm, I'm not letting that dream die. And I think this is, this is kind of ideal for it where it's like, you really get into it and open the screen and you're doing two apps or PDFs or whatever you're doing. And when you're done, just shut it and just have your messages on your wrist and go. That's my TED Talk.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  I mean, it does sound.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  So you want a folding iPad mini without a cover screen?

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Slightly different direction than what Apple went in. I, look, I, I found the experience of watching Instagram or TikTok on this thing is just completely absurd.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Cause it's too small on the cover display and it crops the video. It makes the video, like Instagram will make the video more square. TikTok is not optimized, so it just like, doesn't look right and doesn't look right. And then you open it and you're scrolling Instagram on a tablet and whatever, whatever shame you can feel about using an app on a smartphone, you feel that shame. You're like, I shouldn't be doing this.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  I see.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  Will it lead to a resurgence in landscape YouTube videos? Is the eight minute mid form YouTube video gonna make a comeback because of the iPhone? Like, maybe, because it opens from portrait to landscape. So the feeling of like, oh, I gotta dive deeper.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Immediately puts you into landscape. And what are, what, maybe you're just gonna watch video that way now.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  I think this is the thing that I most cannot figure out about this phone. So like, you have the YouTube app open and you're on the, you're on the outer screen and it has this big black bar on the right side that takes up just a shocking amount of the real estate of this relatively small screen. This is, if I understand it correctly, a sign of an unoptimized.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  There's three categories. You gotta, are you ready for this?

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  So there's, there's not updated at all.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Which just looks like teeny tiny phone apps.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Then there's updated for iOS 27.

• 13:09Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Not the Duo.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  And that gets you this, the black bar on the side and a slightly bigger auto layout and everything about, the only way to describe these apps is vibe coded.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Right? Like just stuff starts happening. You're like, it's bigger now, but no one thought about this. And like YouTube is.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  But for the most part, it just, it goes from not stretching correctly to stretching correctly.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you look at, I'm gonna, I can't show people this, but if you look at Gmail, which got updated, like in the unoptimized way, I'm just gonna show my Gmail spam folder. Hang on. So this is, can you guys, can you all see this? This is Gmail and you would expect in landscape mode that it would look like any email app in landscape.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Inbox on the left.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Message on the right.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Just a big list.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  And if you open any email, you just get a giant email.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  Right. So this is optimized for iOS 27.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  For iOS 27, so you get for free.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  In iOS 27, a little bit bigger on the Duo.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Then there's the, the big update. Updated for iOS 27.1 where you get the Duo enhancements, you'd stop, you lose the black bar, you move the controls over to the side. And there's a bunch of those that happened over the past week. If you watched Joanna's video, she recorded her software section three times.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  She was insanely frustrated by the amount of updates that were happening. We had a whole section, our video, that was like, look at how dumb Instagram is. And then Instagram updated like yesterday.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Instagram's a good example though, because it went from being super dumb to less dumb. I would not say it perfectly uses the, the screen.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  It does not. Instagram is maybe the most vibe coded update of all. Where like, it's very obvious that Claude was instructed to like, figure it out. And Claude made some decisions and like, things are moved around and many of those decisions don't make any sense. And on the cover display in particular, there's all kinds of interface elements overlapping with each other. So this thing has been updated for the Duo. It fills the space, the controls are moved over and open question whether Meta is gonna keep refining that app or whether they're gonna have checked the box and call it a day. And this is why, you know, our rule is you gotta review what's in the box. I, I can't tell you what Meta is gonna do with its Duo design language.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  I can tell you for sure what Google's gonna do, which is nothing.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Right, all of Google's apps are sort of in the vibe coded zone. Look, Google's new model is very powerful.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe anti-gravity can fix this.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  I legitimately think the power of AI assisted coding is going to help the, the Duo updates come faster and that will feel like something meaningful and then you will actually use them and it's gonna be rough.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  For a year. Because yes, it will fill the screen, it won't be as silly as the little apps, but you can already see in this first wave, they're checking the box.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  They're not thoughtfully rethinking how their app should work. There are some apps that obviously do that.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  But the, sort of like the big five, it's just vibe coded city.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, which I get, but is also a bummer and is a weird, it's actually a hard chicken and egg problem for anybody, like including Apple. Apple is better at arm wrestling its developers to do what it wants than any other company would do with.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  But it's crazy they ain't lean on the iPad. It's right there. The iPad, it's right there, the whole ecosystem of apps.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  Have either of you developed a theory for why this is? Because all the stuff you're describing, where like, what, what it really is, is most of the developers I've seen updating their apps to do Duo essentially land on sidebar on the left thing on the right. And it's like, could you be more inventive than that? Sure, but that works, it fills the space. This is also what everybody does on Android and Google has actually maybe done a better job of, of pulling the, the resolution targets in the right direction that way? Can either of you think of any reason Apple wouldn't have just pulled the iPad down onto the Duo in that way?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I think they're just precious about this as an iPhone and that's such a core part of that company and they are so loathe to break anything about it and.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  You know what they should have done is they should have just called this the Apple Duo.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  Let it, let it live in the middle, just blow everybody's mind.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Just ambiguous. Is it an iPhone?

• 17:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, oh, you want an iPhone and a Duo and an iPad? You can do that.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  It might've been too hard. I mean, you know, iPad OS is its own OS, it has a lot of baggage at this point. The app bundles are not the same. So.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  We have a commenter pointing out that Netflix is one that did a good job of Duo support. Is that true? I think you, you guys mentioned that in the review, I think, that Netflix like moves the player, move the player.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  And the controls into the right place.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  They did the trick with the reflections, you know, with the, based on where the hinge is too. I watched British Bake Off on it, it was a lovely experience, I can say that.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Love that. So yeah, this is the sort of thing where I think, I think we can probably safely assume that everyone will support iOS 27, right? So the, the like, the ones you guys have where it's basically an iPhone app sort of floating in nothingness on the Duo, my assumption is most of those will be gone pretty fast.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Those are vanishing like by the day.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  It really was insane trying to review a thing that is changing every time you open it.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, this works. It's like the screen up at the top and then I have the, the controls on, it's like I'm holding a Game Boy Advance. Like this, this works.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  It's fine.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  But you're just watching video on it, right? It's any app where you have to change your interaction paradigm.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  But importantly, that is not a small amount of work. Like that, that is a thoughtful redesign of an app, not a button you can check in Xcode.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  Which is what a lot of these things have been and kind of what Apple alluded to it being. So the easy path, it turns out, actually doesn't do that much. And if you wanna do the good thing, it's gonna be a fair amount of work for developers.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  The, the message out of Apple, for whatever it's worth, is the iPhone and the iPad are different products, they have different ecosystems and vastly more people have iPhones.

• 18:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  So you, you, you can't assume that they understand how an iPad works, so we're gonna build a new thing. And I would bet over the next two to three years, one to two years, that the iPad and the Duo just run into each other because there's, there's no other outcome other than, okay, if you make the Duo tablet mode more useful, it becomes an iPad.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  And so Apple, in its very Apple way, was like, what if we threw out everything we ever knew about everything? We started over and we like made an iPad from scratch. And then eventually that will run into the iPad. The line I keep using is the Duo wants to be an iPad in exactly the same way the iPad wants to be a Mac.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  Which is kind of a problem in both cases.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's like, what is every iPad review we've done for five years is like, just let it.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, either give this its own identity, or just shut up and make it a Mac. And apparently, we might get a touchscreen Mac. Like, all of these things are just crashing into each other as fast as possible.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  And somewhere in the middle of that is a home view. That's like, it's CarPlay. And it's like, Apple's software story is about to be as chaotic and confusing as it's ever been. I think that is fundamentally exciting. This is a very conservative company lately. And they're about to blow, they're just throwing bombs and everything. And it's gonna be a mess.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Just a pure mess. And this is why I keep saying this is like, first generation, early adopter stuff. If you are excited about a mess, and I'm like, pretty excited about a mess, it's gonna be really fun. If you are just trying to use your phone, you're gonna be like, I don't know what happened to me. And this is, I think both of us had the experience of like, we're reviewing this phone, but I need to just do something. And just pulling out a regular phone.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  To be like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna handle this business.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Because it, your regular phone is not nearly as chaotic as this thing.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  And you get such a feeling of relief.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Like, we both experienced this. You pick up a regular phone. It's like the thing where you're used to picking up a toddler. And you pick up a baby. You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm the strongest person in the world. You, you get that little moment of like, oh, okay, this is nice. And yeah, you, it's just, what is your pain tolerance for the heavy phone? How much do you really want to get out of the inner screen is what I keep coming back to.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  It does seem like the good news of all of this stuff, though, is that it is kind of, it's a lot of like, small, little, solvable things. Like, there, there doesn't seem to be, unless you're on sort of Team Neely, this thing is just fundamentally too small. Which I think I disagree with you on, actually. I think, the reason I started this off in the first place is I think if you just get rid of that stupid bar on the side, and, and.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  So you change the aspect ratio of your phone entirely?

• 21:22Speaker 00

  No, just move it out of the way. You have to swipe Control Center in now. Just make me swipe Control Center and give me the screen real estate back. Like, you, you may have solved part of my problem with the teeny tiny phone screen.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  I'm worried that you don't understand how shapes work. What are you proposing here?

• 21:37Speaker 00

  I'm proposing.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  As someone with an eight-year-old and a one-year-old, I've done shapes a lot.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  I'm proposing that the, the black bar that is always here on the right side not be there on the right side anymore.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  So that it gets skinnier?

• 21:47Speaker 00

  No, no, no. I'm saying on the screen. Don't change the hardware at all. Just give me, give me the pixels back.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. You want it to like disappear and you call it back?

• 21:56Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  To use the buttons?

• 21:57Speaker 00

  Which is how I would point out iPhones currently work.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  You know what's not there on the iPhone is a bunch of Wi-Fi controls taking up a bunch of space.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  So the reason I can't do this, I, I think I understand what's going on in your mind.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  I've known you for a long time. I think, I think I understand this, the neural soup.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  I saw you can see everything less, Adam. I'm a broken person today.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  The problem is that the camera is in the corner. So the, the reason you have the black bar is Apple, like Samsung on a fold.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  They have a camera here, they fixed that.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Right, but they, because of the top. So like Samsung did this. This is maybe the most interesting comparison of all is to the fold it.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  So Samsung, it's same basic size and shape. It's a little lighter, but Samsung is like, this is just a phone. And so there's a camera at the top, and there's buttons on the bottom. And they're just like, it's a, it's a phone, but smaller.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Apple was like, we've reinvented the very concept of a phone. Apple.

• 22:52Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  And so they're like, the camera's off in the top right, and that means all the status stuff is on the right. And we're just taking that vertical strip and the camera will, it will be dominated by the camera in the corner. As opposed to what they do on, on their phones now, which is the camera's at the top and you're not, don't, don't look at this. Right? The whole dynamic island is like, don't look at this. Right? Like, just assume it's not there. You'll learn to ignore it. This is like, the camera dominates the entire interface because of that black bar. And so if you're gonna give it back to me, they, they will have to make some other decision with the camera.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  They'll have to do what they did on the iPad, which is eventually relent and put it in the correct place.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  The middle. Where cameras go.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Look, a lot of this is like, should the camera be in the middle? Is this the right aspect ratio? Should it have Face ID in the front? Half the reviewers are just, it should just have Face ID unlock on the front.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  Yep. Yeah. How did you guys feel about this? There are a lot of people who are really mad about Touch ID instead of Face ID. Did it? I, I think, especially having spent a lot of time getting used to Face Unlock, the going back does take some adjustment.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. The thing I kept doing was I would pull up the phone and just stare at it.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Wait for the notifications to unfurl. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah, I gotta use.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Do something.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was a little weird. There is that kind of lag of like, did it, did I get my thumb there? It's got, okay, good, we're good.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  You can turn that off, apparently.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  I learned this. So we had our own hidden settings, and a lot of other reviewers found another hidden setting.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  So there is a hidden setting to turn off Touch ID delay.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Which I did not know about.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Because why on earth would you ever know about this in a world of Face ID? But there is a setting buried in the menus where right now, if you just put your thumb on it, jet, I did it too fast. If you go like halfway, it'll unlock halfway and show you notifications. And if you, and it will say rest to unlock.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  If you hold it there, it'll unlock all the way.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Can I say, I enjoy it telling me to rest? That was nice.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Please, take, take a beat while your phone unlocks. But you can turn that off and it unlocks almost instantly.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  So that's one hidden setting that I think Apple got wrong. And the, the hidden setting I think Apple got wrong is so preposterously backwards. Like, it, it is the least intuitive default setting Apple has ever created. Where if you, you can change, you can have the volume buttons auto reorient themselves. So you open it, and then you always want to turn it clockwise. And the volume buttons end up on the bottom right.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And that, by default.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Up should be up and down should be down.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  So by default, the top button is volume down.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Oh, no, that's nope.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  When it's this way, it's that way. And there's a button, there's buried in settings, auto reorient volume buttons.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  This is another thing Apple's has solved already on the iPad.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  It's already there. And it's on by default. So to make the button do the right thing, you have to go find a hidden setting and turn it off. And I, like, even just trying to like, write it in the review, I was like, not this, I can't make these sentences make sense.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  That was, it was an all-time high of getting comments from editors who are like, what are you saying? I don't get this at all. I'm like, no, there's on the other screen and this screen and this happens. It's like, I'm, I'm sorry, you have to look.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  We, we also got a lot of comments from, from Jake and Todd who are editing this. They're like, maybe this will make sense when I see the video.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Like, just like, sort of like plaintively, like, maybe when I see it, it'll make sense.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Well, this was your whole thing about the way you instinctively rotate it being upside down.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  One of those things, you described this to me. I was like, that, none of what you just said is English words. And then you, you, you hold it and pick it up and rotate it. And it's like, oh, I, I do kind of flip it the wrong direction.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  So in this case, the bumper case, which is ugly, but the only acceptable case. The other case is, I keep calling it the old lady case. So if you, I don't know if you all can see this. I hope you can see this. The, this is the top of this case, and it has a notch for the Touch ID button and the camera control button. And for all, like, everything you know about cases, that's the bottom.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Because that's where you would plug in your charger, right? Like, everything you know about everything suggests this is the bottom. So every time you open it, you're like, I want to put the bottom at the bottom, but that's actually the top.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's silly.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  And then the USB is on the side.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  We got a lot of questions about cases, actually, because a thing I forget, as a person who proudly does not use a phone case, is that everyone uses phone cases.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 00

  Um, are there literally, there's just the two from Apple. Presumably, there will be others, but I feel like foldable cases in general are hard to do well.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Apples are particularly bad.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, Alison, can you, can you give us a demo of the, the disaster zone over here?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Okay, the, the Karen case.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  It has a kickstand. I love a kickstand.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  It just, it just looks like you're in a restaurant, you're gonna call the manager. Every time I see it.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Can we, yeah. So it covers the, the front display, first of all. So you have to do a move to open it up. And it, it has, okay, here's the jump scare. It has this like elastic bit in the middle.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Because it has to.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  It has to stretch over that. It's, I mean, kind of clever. But it.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Is it though?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  It slides around to like, an alarming degree, I think.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  And then it turns into a thing I'm fidgeting with.

• 27:56Speaker 00

  That just looks like your case is falling off.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  And in fact, your case just fell off as you were doing that. It just fell off.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  When you, you're like, I need to do the kickstand, you like, am I peeling the case off of the phone? You know, like, there, I got there, but, um, yeah, I don't, I don't love it. It does remind me of a pair of shoes at Nordstrom Rack. Love Nordstrom Rack.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  It's funny, everyone has like, arrives at kind of the same insult. Which is like, this is an irritating wine mom's case.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Like, just naturally, it's the way you look. It's fine. And maybe that's.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  There was a whole genre of these in the early days of iPad.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  There's a lot of those around.

• 28:33Speaker 00

  And boy, did we all learn better. All right, we have a bunch of other stuff to get into, but we should take a quick break. And then we're gonna dig back in. We'll be right back.

• 28:42Speaker 03

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• 32:17Speaker 00

  All right, we're back. Couple more hardware things we should talk about. The crease comes up every time anybody talks about these things. I'm looking at Nilay's phone as he's scrolling on one of the stupid floating apps in space. I can see the crease. Like, it's there. I can see the crease. Are you, but like, both of you, I think, have said you don't, but what's the, what is it perceptively, perceptually?

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Perceptually flat.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's stupid.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  It's such a great phrase.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  It is. It's very good. Um, have you noticed?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  They had a meeting. Imagine, you know, you're in the spaceship, and, you know, Greg Jaws, who is like, we're gonna, we're having a meeting. And he puts like $10 million worth of Apple executives in a room. And he's like, how do we say you don't see it? And he's just like, stood there on the whiteboard.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  And you're like, almost invisible. He's like, you're fired.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, get out of here. Come back when you have a good idea. And they got to perceptually flat, which is just hilarious.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Sure. Somebody got a raise for that, and I'm excited for that person. Do you notice it? Like, is it, is the, is the fact that one screen is two screens at all part of the experience of using this phone?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  It does not bother me. And even on previous foldables where it's more pronounced and you feel it, you see it more, you kind of, at least I do, it sort of blends into the background for me. And when you're looking at the thing straight on, you know, it's not catching the light. So even if it is more pronounced, it hasn't bothered me. This is especially well-hidden, I think.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  There's something going on with your phone. We didn't put this interview, and I noticed it last night. And I said this to Alison, and she got really offended with me. Your phone is so greasy. It's so much greasier than mine. And where, from where I'm standing, it's starting to get to like galaxy-fold levels of crease seeing.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Is it bothering you?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  It's because it's like shiny and you can see it. So the crease is there.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  And it's not less there than on the Z Fold8.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  So the matte screen surface, which some people are saying is like a screen protector that's on top, just does an excellent job of diffusing the reflections of the screen. So it's perceptually flat.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Okay. Did you, did you ever have the instincts to peel off the screen protector?

• 34:33Speaker 02

  The second, the day I opened it, I did.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  Really?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Because it looks like, it looks like one of those peelies on any of the screen. And I was like, oh, shouldn't do that.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, been there.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  First, remember the first Galaxy Fold reviews? Just people breaking the phones. So I saw it when I was watching Vision Quest the other night, and it's just the way the light from the TV was reflecting in a dark room, it made this look shiny. And you can just see it. It's the same ripple, exactly the same ripple as the Z Fold8. And what's happening to Alison's, I'm not saying this is used, so our video team has greasy fingers. Someone was eating a pizza and then touched that screen, and it's greasier than the way mine is right now.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  And it is more, it's shinier.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  I mean, I see it from here.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  You do have to work at it. And I think we just need a little spritz, you know?

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. So there's something, you know, it's like, you can make a matte display. It's like, don't eat pizza with the phone. I don't know what to tell you. Like, you shouldn't do that anyway.

• 35:25Speaker 00

  Strong disagree. What are you talking about? The whole beauty of my phone is I can hold it in one hand and eat pizza in the other hand. I don't understand.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  You gotta unfold it.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  And I type with my nose.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's like, the, the secret to perceptually flat is the matte screen, is the nano texture screen. And they're very proud of it. They're very proud of exactly how much it diffuses. I think Mr. Mobile had a great video with like the Apple team. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. He did a great job. And they just talked a lot about, yeah, it's matte.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Why do you think it's not matte also on the outside? I was a little surprised by that.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  Because they don't need to make the outside perceptually flat.

• 35:57Speaker 00

  So you think it's purely the, because you could make the case that you want the nano texture, the matte stuff on the inside, because just the screen is larger, and the bigger the screen, the more opportunity you have to be ruined by glare and reflections?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  But you have that on the inside. And so it's like, well, wouldn't it also be nice to have this lovely matte screen that Apple seems to agree is better, also on the outside? But maybe it just doesn't matter that much.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Put matte screens on all the phones, is where I'm at. I've been radicalized. I think it's great. I mean, I see definitely the stuff you open the phone up for, like reading something, watching a video, you are by definition leaving your house with this device. You know, having that bigger screen have the matte finish on it makes tons of sense. I think like dovetails very conveniently with, we're hiding a crease thing. But as a matte screen enjoyer, I sure, put it on the front. I love it. Let's do it.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  I think a lot of people were curious whether that would be like a thing. And to me, it's not. It's, I think having this screen, which is the exterior screen, which is going to naturally get dirtier, be easier to clean, is a good thing.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, sure. That's, that's fair. And I think especially, like, I'm torn on the inside screen being something you feel like you have to protect, because like, we're all so scarred by the early days of the Galaxy Foldables, where if a speck of dust got in there, it would just shred the phone to bits from the inside. Maybe less worry some of these days.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  The one thing Apple definitely got right, perceptually flat aside, and I do love the phrase.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  It's a great phrase.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  It's accurate in its way.

• 37:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Greg really ran that team to the finish line. You know what I mean? The display feels vastly more solid than any of the other Foldables, partially because it's matte. So it has texture and it doesn't really have a lot of give. Like, right in the middle, it has some give, because that's where the hinge is. But other Foldables, even, even the ones that have, I think the Z Fold8 is a glass screen technically. It's a very thin, flexible glass. It still feels soft and plasticky, and this does not have any of that.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  Interesting. Okay, fair enough. We're getting a lot of questions about the cameras, which I think is actually, I expected this to be a very simple camera story, which is just like, it has less cameras and they're worse. The end, these are the traits of Foldables. But Alison, I feel like you ran into, this is actually, there are real pros and cons to this camera situation.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, the fun with the Foldable is getting to use, like, from a camera's perspective, you know, using these as a selfie camera with a preview on the cover screen. You can do fun stuff like this is now a tripod and you're taking a time lapse. There's the adorable Snoopy animations, get your kid to look at the camera kind of thing. So there are like, things you just can't do with a regular slab-style phone. And I was, I was really braced for like, worse news from the camera, that it was gonna be like, not good.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  The main camera is a smaller sensor, which all things being equal will not be as good. It is really not terrible, comparing it to the 18 Pro, which is...

• 39:10Speaker 00

  Exactly what you want to hear on your $2,000 phone. It's not...

• 39:13Speaker 01

  That's the other half of it.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  Terrible.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, it's really for, the bottom line is that it looks like it's over-sharpening to kind of compensate for a little bit more softness.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  I mean, that kind of makes sense. Apple's just like revved up its software pipeline a little more.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  A worse sensor and, yeah, put the A20 Pro behind it.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Did more algorithms.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  And then the reality of that is, boy, the phone gets hot when you use a camera a lot, because they're just revving that A20 Pro underneath that camera as hard as they can.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Interesting. Yeah, this seems to be one of the things a lot of reviewers noticed is like this, when you use this phone hard, especially FaceTime and, and the cameras, think it's hot.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Yep. If you do, if you do all the camera features at once, so if you do Kid Q and Smart Take, and you know, it's like automatically taking shots, like this thing is just like roasting you. It's like, wow, that's all, like, enough so that it throttles performance to try to recover.

• 40:07Speaker 00

  Can I just say, by the way, that you just said Kid Q and Smart Take, and my immediate reaction was like, oh, that's some Samsung shit right there. Like, they're, they're doing Samsung stuff right there.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  100%.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Here's, here's some wacky stuff happening on the screen.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  The first thing Alison said about this phone, like, in the first day was, this is some Android shit. Because that first few days when it was like messy and none of the apps were optimized, you're like, this is the most Android experience I've ever had in my entire life.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  We were messaging each other.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  More so than Android.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  We're like, how does this work? Did you get to this weird place in this phone? Yeah.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  I appreciate Apple being like, we can make insane phones too. What, do you want to have a phone with a bunch of settings you can't find?

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Did you see the video? Tim Cook, this past few weeks, has been in China, just at events at like Chinese universities and like shaking hands and...

• 40:53Speaker 00

  Sure. I think that's his job now.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's his new job. He's Apple's chief diplomat. And he just like travels around the world and is like, I love what you're doing here. It's his job.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Would you like to see my phone?

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Exactly. And he just had this quote where they asked him what to do, and he was like, the market for Foldables in China is second to none, and we're excited to come and compete. And you're like, oh, Apple likes, likes to pretend they showed up first and no one has ever had these ideas before. But here's Tim Cook in China being like, we know you like the crazy phones. Here's, here's one.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Interesting. So our commenters are having an argument about the cameras as they are, as they are want to do. And I think they're making me realize something really interesting, which is like normally we talk about these cameras and it's like, okay, well, yes, they're a relatively iterative improvement over the one that you bought or over the one that came out last year. They're a giant improvement over whatever phone you're using now, right? If you're shopping for a phone, your phone is probably somewhere between three and eight years old. It's going to be a huge improvement. The Duo is weird in that it is geared at people who probably bought a phone last year. So like the, the path is not from like the 13 to the Duo. Although shout out to our friend Kevin Roos, who I know did exactly that upgrade. He was like, I'm holding out for the foldable. And I was like, that's weird, but here we are.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  But this is a lot like this is an early adopter phone. So presumably this is people who have not been sitting on really old phones. And for them, this might, there might be real actual downgrades in the camera experience.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  For me, it's the telephoto. Like every time I went back to the 18 Pro, I would get the telephoto and be like, oh, this is nice. I can take a picture of that. I use it a lot with my kid. So that's, I've been here, not taking pictures of him for the past week, but that's going to be something I will miss.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Everyone's now telling me that they're upgrading from a 13 to a Duo. Listen, 13 to Duo people, I see you and we love you.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  But I think you're still from the 13. I think you, you might still have a bigger sensor on the 13. I'm not a hundred percent sure.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  And so you're going to miss a bunch of, like, if you have a 13 Pro and you end up at an 18 Pro, you will obviously see the difference. Like there'll be some huge step. I think you might not with the Duo.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  And I, calibrating exactly how far back in time you're going with the Duo from an 18 Pro is, will be just a fun adventure.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Like everyone's going to take a bunch of photos and be like, it's the same as a 14 or a 15. But that's, in my estimation, that's the trade off here. You're getting the camera quality of several generations ago.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. That makes sense. That's tough to stomach on a $2,000 phone. Like it is, it is the trade you have to make on pretty much all of these foldables. Although again, I think the Z Fold 8 got much, much closer. Like it is, it is much closer to parity with other Samsung phones.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  The other Samsung foldable makes no camera compromises at all, right?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, they went two directions. There's the one that's shaped like this and the cameras are okay. And then, then there's the, the book style, very thin one.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  That's the Z Fold 8 Pro.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Ultra.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  The Ultra.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 43:53Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  It's called, it's called Smart Take.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  When you use Smart Take on your Ultra.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  That's the one that's a TV remote.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  That's how I think about that, that phone. Um, no, I think, yeah, that, that set of trades is just hard. And I get why it is necessary in a device like this. I do want to say, just for the record, if you're going to pick two cameras, you do the normal one and the telephoto one, not the normal one and the ultra wide one. Everyone wants regular and telephoto. I don't, I don't, I don't know how no one has figured this out. Don't give me the-

• 44:22Speaker 02

  You're super wrong.

• 44:23Speaker 00

  I, you're, I know I'm, I'm, I'm completely correct.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  It's easier.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  I'm going to say this. We're gonna, we're gonna.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Let's get Neelai in trouble.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  It's easier to get closer to something than farther away.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  That's a, that's a, I'm going to need to sit with that for a while.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  I also don't agree at all.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Cause you, yep, you can just.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  This, you gotta.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  Now my sunset looks great.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  That's all I'm saying. Yeah. I think there's a reason it's the ultra wide. Cause there was a generation of phones where it was a main and a tully.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  And they all landed it in main and ultra wide.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  And if you're supposed to take selfies with these two, you don't want a telephoto up in.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  You can, you can crop. You cannot, now you can generative AI the world around you. You're like, whatever. I saw the whole horizon.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  I didn't even go outside. It took a picture for me. Um, this, yeah, every, the commenters agree with me. Don't read the comments. Don't worry about what they say. They're all 100% on my side. Um.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  By the way, can I, can I, this is, I think a very important point. We didn't quite get to it in the review. Cause it's hard to test and it's hard to explain like everything with the Duo. Do you want 10 more minutes on the concept of iPhone handoff?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  But I know a lot of people, myself included,

• 45:43Speaker 02

  our friend Casey Newton also thought this was going to happen for him, uh, who assume that what they could do is keep their regular phone with a good camera and have that for the weekends and then seamlessly with the power of iPhone handoff, use the Duo at work or whatever. And I, this was my goal. I was like, I'm going to keep my 17 Pro. That's like the weekend phone when I just need to take a photo of the kids, whatever. And Apple will seamlessly hand the cell connection off between them. This only works with T-Mobile.

• 46:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  It's going to cost you extra money.

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  It seems very likely that it's going to cost you extra money on all the carriers, but I think T-Mobile was actually charging you more money right now. It seems like five bucks a month.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  It does not switch your Apple Watch. So your Apple Watch only remains paired to one device, which is a real bummer.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  And, uh, the actual experience of it is like very smooth and very chill, but you have two active iPhones. So like one of them, it's just like, things like Signal get very confused when you are doing this. Cause they are built around you having one phone, right? And like pairing to one phone at a time. My whoop band is like furious that I have two phones right now. Cause it's just built around one phone.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  So there's just like a whole universe of, and if you have AT&T, it's just like, not even announced. Verizon is coming in the future.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Those of you with Project Jena 5 sis on the dish network.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  You have it now for free. Welcome.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  It turns out you have one Motorola phone and an iPhone. Um, uh, so this is the dream. And I think Apple announced that feature and they launched it and launched it to T-Mobile. They've got to re-architect how the watch works. They've got to make it so that having two active iPhones is a thing the entire iPhone app ecosystem understands. And they got to bring it to all the carriers. So I know a lot of people have this dream. And I was like, should we put like a, a box in the review? And I was like, this box will be 2,000 words long, just to begin explaining what's going on here.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  But it, even that a year from now, when that is more refined, that might be the whole answer to this question.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  I'm so mad that they've made me advocate for eSIM. I'm like, just, just switch your eSIM. Like solves it. It's free. If you're doing iPhone to iPhone, works great.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Have you done the eSIM switch? I tried to do it once in AT&T and in classic Apple fashion, they make it seem so scary.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Like this will deactivate your phone. And you're like, wait, that's what I want.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  That's, the goal is to deactivate this phone.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  That's the goal. Yep. That's what we're doing here. Um, talk to me about multitasking, which is a thing I think every foldable is trying to figure out. Like you, you brought up the, the Z Fold 8 Ultra and the whole pitch for that device is you can run two apps side by side like a boss. Like that's literally basically Samsung's tagline.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  This thing seems to have some slightly wacky ideas about how many apps you can run and in what ways. What have you guys found about the, like, doing a bunch of power user stuff on the Duo?

• 48:30Speaker 01

  This is like baby's first foldable. Honestly, you've got two apps side by side. That's it pretty much. You can't, you know, on, on Samsung phones, you can kind of slide and resize the windows to fill different space.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Another thing the iPad does really well. The iPad's side by side is really powerful now.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, this is, it'll show you. It'll be like, look, you can scoot this and it goes right back. So you can pair the two apps in that split view and, and kind of send that off into the,

• 49:04Speaker 01

  the app switcher and come back to it.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Wait, can I ask a dumb question about that?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  So that's one of the things I really like about the way this does is you, you can pair two apps. And for me, it's like, I want my email and my calendar next to each other and I want to be able to see them. But then if you go to open your email separately, will it let you open another instance of your email? Or does it go right to the split screen thing? This is a thing the iPad has been reckoning with forever and finally solved where now you can have multiple instances of, of an app open at once. And it is vastly better.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  You can do that with Safari. You can't do it with most apps. Well, you can get to this state where you have two apps open and like Netflix playing in the corner.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  But that's very iPad-y.

• 49:38Speaker 00

  Old iPad. Yeah. This is like before iPad got weird ideas about Stage Manager. That was what you could do on the iPad.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  It brings up the pair.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's nice.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  I think that's fine. It's not as like power usery as I think some people might want, but it's probably the simpler version of this to understand.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I would say not a power user phone. The Z Fold 8 was just playing with it and it's like, you want three apps? Go for it. You can, you can do three apps. You can resize this one and make it little and make it big. Which is fun. Like I enjoy that. I like putting Spotify in a little window and then an email in a big window or any of that. This is very much like on training wheels. We don't want to overwhelm you or break anything. Two apps, what you get.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Okay. Neelai, you did show me the thing where you can have a video playing up top and then an app down below it. And that I like a lot.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Easily the messiest thing to do on this phone. If I was to like, go figure it out. Go ahead. Figure it out. There's the YouTube icon.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  All right. I'm ready to do this now.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  There were a whole bunch of people who were like, we don't believe you guys that it'll do this. Cause we tried it a bunch of times.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  The video team was fully like, um, are you sure this?

• 50:47Speaker 02

  You've already failed.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  One of the wildest things about Neelai is that Neelai has, uh, history turned off for his YouTube. So you open up YouTube and just no recommendations appear. It is like, it is, it's probably the healthy, correct way to live your life, but it is alarming. Uh, okay. So that's gone. I don't know what just happened.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  You've already failed. The thing that you thought you were going to do.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  It was supposed to go to picture and picture.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  YouTube play. And I have YouTube premium. I have all this stuff. Uh, YouTube is not optimized for the Duo. So it doesn't work. So you can try it with a Netflix app.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  You tricked me Patel.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  I did trick you because the most obvious thing that you think you're going to do is watch a YouTube video while doing anything else. So what you have to do is you have to find an app that supports this behavior, which is again, not YouTube. For some reason it is YouTube TV. So I've watched an infinite amount of broadcast television on YouTube TV.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  So YouTube TV or Netflix or Apple TV, they all support this feature. So you open a video, you start playing the video, you close that app. And then you get your pit video. That pit video will still not have the button that makes it play at the top in portrait mode.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  Right? So then you got to get the phone into portrait.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  And keep in mind, you were just in a video app, so you almost certainly had the phone in landscape. So you're going to rotate to portrait, then you got to open another app. And at that point, a button, the world's tiniest button will show up in the pit video, in the pit window.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  And then you can put a video at the top.

• 52:07Speaker 00

  Good lord.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  And, and like, none of that is sensible.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  No. It's also clearly not how it's supposed to work.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like they, they have some pit window mechanics and they just added a button to it. But what you really want to do is grab that window with your thumb and like pin it to the top.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  And they'll get there in a year.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's right. Like, again, the, the thing that is actually giving me hope about this phone is you have yet to describe a thing that feels fundamentally flawed about it. Like, again, unless you think it's just the wrong shape and size, which I don't.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  I think it's too small. Yeah, that's, that's the number one thing I have for you is fundamentally, I think it's too small.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  I, to me, I think the, the small is, is a feature more than a bug in a lot of ways, but the, all of this stuff is stuff to be figured out. And Apple is good at generally looking at this stuff and figuring it out over time. And they will come out next year and be like, oh, all these dumb settings that were turned on, now they're off. And that'll be great.

• 53:02Speaker 00

  But I think part of what I'm so struck by with this phone, and I've been fighting with both of you about whether we like it or not all week, is I, there is some sort of expectation that comes with it's an iPhone that Apple has just done over time. And if they had presented this more like, this is a completely new kind of device that we've made. Here is the very first one. Like, nobody expected the Vision Pro to be without its insanities.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  The Vision Pro before it launched was being framed as a prototype.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  This is a research project.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Right. And so I, I think you just, the, the level of expectation goes down, except for that it's $3,500. Maybe that's a bad example, but, but I think-

• 53:43Speaker 02

  $2,000 to start and $32.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  But with something like this, like, people are going to buy this as their main phone. And you're going to get a lot of people who walk into an Apple Store and this is on the list of things you might conceivably buy. And I just feel like all the things you're describing are things that those people should not be required.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  This is why, again, I'm going to just come back to the iPad. I think every, anybody who walks in an Apple Store and sees this phone, it's going to be like, oh, it's an iPhone when it's closed and it's an iPad when it's open.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  They will just make that assumption.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Which is what so many people have been wanting for years.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  It, it's just, especially if you put it next to an iPad mini, they're the same size.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  So you have a decade of teaching people that the iPad exists, more than a decade at this point, I think. And instead, something else is going to happen. And a bunch of apps need to get optimized for it. And Apple made that decision. They seem very set in that decision.

• 54:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  And I, that is the one that I think will get litigated over the next year. Is, is this thing just going to have to be an iPad? And our app developer is going to make duo-specific apps? And then they're going to realize that they've made apps that are perfect for the iPad mini? And then do that. And at some point, that is just a lot of apps to make. And a lot of auto layout inside of Xcode. What are we doing here?

• 54:54Speaker 00

  It is a lot of things. As Ted Ward in our comments just pointed out, next year is the 20th anniversary of the iPhone, which would be a terrific time to figure all of this out. We have one more break to take before we get out of here. Let's take it. We'll be back in just a sec. Then we're going to finish up. Be right back.

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• 57:14Speaker 00

  All right, we're back. I wish I could describe to both of you the FOMO that just happened when we went to break and you both picked up your duos and started goofing around on them. And I'm just sitting here like a loser with an iPhone 17.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, your phone isn't twelve and a half.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  This is awful. So this is actually one of the things I think matters a lot about this phone, is it looks different in a way that is sick. And have you both gotten reactions to this phone? You've been like out in the world using it. It's a weird time being a reviewer because you're like sort of supposed to hide it, but also like, our video is just both of you out in the world using this very obvious foldable phone that a lot of people are paying attention to. Have you, have you gotten double takes and reactions from people?

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Um, well, it's like, we've been a little careful, you know, there's, uh, we-

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Listen, no one from Apple is listening to this. You can tell us, you can tell us the truth, Allison.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Okay, well, no, I, okay, so I did bring it, like, I was traveling with it as my primary phone. I got to the airport and I was a little bit like, whoa, I have the iPhone Duo. I got up to the, to counter, the counter to check my bag. And I showed the lady my boarding pass. She was like, what phone is that? I was like, oh my gosh.

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Don't worry about it.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Right off the bat. No, I think there is, uh, like, people are aware of folding phones. And they're aware there's now going to be an Apple folding phone. And the, the mix is intriguing. And I don't know, I was like, well, I gotta, I gotta use this thing. I gotta live my life. So I put it on my tray table on the flight and watched TV on it. And nobody put me on TikTok or anything, so.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Let me just, can I just show you this?

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Please.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  All the apps are going to get updated. Everything's going to be fine.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Oh no, what just happened?

• 58:56Speaker 00

  I'm so mad.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  I just like, I promise you that there is just vibe-coded slop happening in this app situation. I just tried to open a browser, like a TechCrunch link on threads, and this is what it chose to do.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  Oh, that's not great. We have a, we have an in-app browser on the left side.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  That is truncated.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  What's happening?

• 59:14Speaker 02

  It sort of opened up, nothing happened on the right.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Amptiness on the right side.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  It's, I just, I promise you, like, you, you have to acknowledge the reality in which you live. And we live in the reality of vibe-coded slop. And so all the apps will be updated and it's going to happen right away is true. Because we live in the time of AI vibe-coded slop.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  And then there's going to be a lot of weird AI vibe-coded slop.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Okay, so the best case scenario for this should be Apple's apps, which presumably have been duo-fied properly. Are they shining examples of what you can do? Like, do you open up Apple's apps and it all suddenly sort of makes sense?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  When you, when you open the inner screen, you're like, this is beautiful. I love this app. Oh no, I don't know what you just pulled up.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  So it's just like, Apple sent us, they sent us Instagram edits, which is like a great app.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  On this thing. Like, it's fun to edit video on this thing. Here's iMovie.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  Huh.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Apple's forgotten app.

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Remember when Apple invented video editing and then the whole world became video? And Apple's like, Instagram edits is fine.

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  That is pure first day of the iPad when they were like, all the iPhone apps work. And all they were was just black rectangles and nothing.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  They updated pages and sheets in keynote.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Um, so they're good. They, they are, they fill the screen. They're not, they're the iPad apps.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  You know, I, I, I'm just going to keep coming back to this.

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  There is a solution and it, it looks like the iPad mini. And so if you can get there, you're fine. Instagram only just put out an iPad app. There's no one on Instagram that knows what to do. They just ask Claude, like, in the most obvious way, they just ask Claude what to do and Claude was like, here's some garbage.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  My only assumption would be that there is some, and please, commenters, if you know the answer to this better than I do, let me know. I, I would assume that it is somewhere between hard and impossible to run an iPad version of an app and an iPhone version of an app on the same device. Because they are, they are not the same app. They are versions of an app.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  And Apple has universal app bundles. And you don't want to overload everyone's phone by sending the binaries of 10 different things.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  And you need, I, I get it.

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  You are not loading the, all, all of the things every time you download the app.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  For example, built the most lucrative company in the history of the world on the back of total control of app distribution.

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  Okay, so I'm in video. Let's do this.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  No, Apple, Apple-

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  I have a leather jacket.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Apple's services revenue, the thing that made them the most richest company in the world for a long time is total rock-solid control.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Of the App Store. You have solutions to this problem.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  Sure. And at the very least, you can bully developers into playing your games. I do think, I'm fascinated to see-

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  You're like bullying developers into supporting the home view by making sure their CarPlay entitlements automatically.

• 1:01:55Speaker 00

  It's going to go great. And then just telling them that they work, whether you like it or not.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Funny that Apple was like, we're going to be more of a bully about CarPlay at home view than iPad apps on the duo.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  It is a little weird. Well, part of me wonders, I mean, and Apple has said that the, the demand for this was bigger than they expected. And I think given how far out pre-orders have been, that's clearly the case. Like, Apple is, Apple is not a company that couldn't have made more of them if they wanted to. So I think clearly, demand has outstripped anybody's expectations, including Apple's. And maybe that means a bunch of people who I think have been burned by spending a lot of time and energy updating to support every little Apple thing that they eventually stopped caring about, which there's been a lot of recently. Maybe that is going to be impetus for more developers to get on board because actually this is a piece of hardware and thus a sort of screen size that is worth supporting.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Like, think of all the people who they were like, oh, do stuff with camera control.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  I think if you just asked 20 people on the street if their phone had camera control, most of them would be like, what is that?

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  So here's the other, I mean, the other just concession to reality.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  The dynamic island. This is, I mean, there's just been a million things they've been asking developers to do kind of for nothing. And I've been hearing from developers who are like, I, I spend every summer between April and September with my hair on fire, waiting to see what they're going to announce and then trying to develop it. And then no one uses it because nobody cares about the dynamic island. But maybe if the Duo is a hit and it seems like it is a hit, it will, it will bring everybody along.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  But you haven't had the experience of 10,000 apps launching the thirstiest live activities in the world.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Whenever an Arsenal game starts, I get four live activities.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  The Packers are playing. It's definitely time for the Google search app to launch a live activity for some reason.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  All the micro dramas that were hacked on this phone have, have lots of live activities.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, there's some stuff that makes sense for developers and others. And you gotta open the phone and it's a different experience and they're all going to want to look good. I'm just saying, there's, there are easy routes. There is vibe-coded slop. There is just updating to 27.1. And then there's what will make the phone meaningfully different, which is a lot of thoughtful care and attention from developers. And that is going to take more time.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  And that's, I think that's fine. Like, if you, like me, opened a link in threads and saw it break and sort of like felt the thrill of excitement that I just felt, like you're going to have the time of your life with this phone. Like, I really want to come back to that. Like, if you were a huge gadget nerd and you're like, I broke it. Amazing.

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  I want to tell my friends. You're gonna, you're gonna have a good time.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  And then if you're just trying, like, this is why he's saying it's a first generation device, early adopter device. Can I tell you my story about someone seeing this phone?

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  So Bill Gates is on Decoder tomorrow. And he was like, do you have it? And I'm like, I don't know, man. And he pulls out his trifold.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Trifold user Bill Gates?

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  You brought a knife to a gunfight, baby?

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  It's like, look at how big these trifles are. That's great.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Wait, Bill Gates, like, earnestly has a trifold?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Has trifles.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:04:58Speaker 00

  That rocks. Uh, boy. Um, I should shout out to mysterybox85 in the comments who says, can I advocate for iOS and iPadOS becoming 1OS again? There's a way to solve a bunch of problems all at once. I'm just saying 20th anniversary next year, Apple is not one to let things like this not be celebrated. Uh, we are expecting big iPhone fireworks next year. I would not be surprised to see a lot of these structural messes start to go away, starting next year. It's just a theory that I have.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:26Speaker 00

  Um, what do we do about the price? Like, I, I really, we have to come back to the fact, this thing costs $2,000. I think we, we are, we are resolute on, if you are just a regular person who does not want to spend a lot of time thinking about their phone, don't buy this one. I think we're on a really exciting path towards like next year and the year after being plausible answers to, like, your next upgrade might be a Duo. And that's cool and that's exciting. I don't think most people should buy this phone today. Does the, does the existence of the $2,000 price dampen it even further? Or is that just the price of doing business for foldable phones right now? Alison, what do you think?

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  I think it's the price of the, the luxury, the being the first person out in your friend group or out on the street with a Duo and being like, wow, that's the Duo. Um, it's, you can buy everything that it does in multiple devices for a lot less.

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can buy an iPhone and an iPad for substantially less than a Duo.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Great iPhones and iPads.

• 1:06:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  So that is, I think, I think it's expected, you know? Like, the price, the price is shocking. If you just tell someone on the street, like, you want to buy a $2,000 phone, they would like laugh at you. But, um, but in this, for what Apple's doing here, um, it, it is the cost of, of doing business, of getting in early, of watching threads break on the inner screen.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  And like I said, I, I find all this delightful.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  How can I break your product is a real hallmark of the Verge review process.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  And it has been very hard for iPhones for a very long time. Like, purely from a, it's fun to do this job when products are weird perspective, it has been such a delight to see this thing come to life. Because like, it gets harder and harder to review the iPhone every year because it's the same damn thing.

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  There's a reason that every year we do like 45 minutes on the camera and the iPhone camera team literally opens like our conversations with, we meet again.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  It's just the only thing. Like, what new color is there?

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:26Speaker 00

  And, but this is like, as you've both been saying, this is full of new ideas. Some of them are very good, some of them are very bad. And that is just on its face, exciting.

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  The, the story of this product is they did not lean on the iPad. And I'm, fascinating choice. And there's, there's no outcome other than two years from now, this thing and the iPad will, will look substantially the same.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  I tend to think so too. Uh, did either of you buy one?

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  It's telling.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Did you buy one?

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  No. I asked my wife, I was like, I knew I wasn't getting a review in it. And I was like, Anna, be real with me. If I get an iPhone Duo, are we going to have problems? And she goes, how much is it? And I was like, it's $2,000. And she goes, if you buy that phone, I'll kill you. And so then I had this role model of being like, okay, well, I've hidden new gadgets from Anna before.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  I can just, I've definitely played the like, oh no, I have this one. I've had this for a long time, these new headphones that look brand new. I've had these before. Uh, but yeah, I was like, I can't, I don't think I can hide that. I just now have a giant flip phone.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  That's what handoff is for, your secret phone.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  A year from now, we're all going to be handing out phones left and right.

• 1:08:29Speaker 00

  Looking forward to it. Uh, all right. Anything else on y'all's mind before we get out of here? I think we've, I think we've covered it. We've talked a lot about apps. I'm still mad about the right rail. Our commenters, once again, agree with me about the two cameras. We should get out of here. Thank you to everybody who has been watching and hanging out in the comments. Uh, the AMA with the two of you on the website, I think is still, is still up and going. So if you have more questions, go in there, we'll be in there answering questions. Thank you to our team for getting all this done. Thank you to our video team who has essentially worked every single second of the last week to get the video up. Go watch the video. It's like six and a half hours long. It's a terrific review. You guys did a great job. I hope everybody gets some sleep. Thank you all. That's it. That's the Vergecast.

• 1:09:08Speaker 02

  Rock and roll.

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  This is objectively fantastic.

• 1:09:49Speaker 04

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