The hot new thing in headphones

Bose, Sony, Beats, and seemingly every other headphone maker has recently released a new and excellent set of cans. Or buds. Or both. The Verge's John Higgins explains why the headphone market is suddenly so great, how the companies are competing now, and which new pair is the right one for you. Vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Further reading: The Sonos Ace Ultra are the headphones Sonos should have made the first time Nothing’s new flagship Headphone 1 Pro put you in the studio The Beats 360 are what I’d bring to the gym if I hated earbuds The premium AirPods 5 are the best open-ear earbuds Apple has made Six years later, Sony revisits its legendary XM4 headphones Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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  Support for the show comes from Sonos. Most of us here at The Verge are big movie buffs. When watching at home, I don't want that experience to be any less immersive than it would be in a theater. And sound plays a huge role in that. The Verge has actually published a few pieces over the years about how much sound matters to a movie. From headphones to soundbars, a Sonos system pulls you in. So far, you might actually think the phone call is coming from inside the house. Visit sonos.com and build your system. Sonos, love the sound, feel the system.

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  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Liz Ann Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist, and Colin Martin, head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Liz Ann as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Hello and welcome to The Vergecast, the flagship podcasts of MultiPoint Audio. I'm your friend David Pierce, and I'm back. Today on the show, we're going to talk headphones. While I've been out, John Higgins on our team has been writing about a bunch of really interesting new pairs of headphones, and more broadly, some interesting new headphone technology. So I'm going to drag John onto the show. I'm going to make him talk about all the things he's been testing and reviewing and writing about, and see where we are in the world of headphones. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. This is 90 Seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, October 7th, 2026. The first reviews are out for The Social Reckoning, which is the new movie about Mark Zuckerberg, Frances Haugen, and the Facebook Files. The sentiment for the movie is actually kind of all over the place.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  It's at a 68 on Rotten Tomatoes right now, but I've seen good and bad, and frankly, everything in between, both for the movie and for Jeremy Strong's portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg. Like The Verge's Charles Paul Liam Moore says, it's sort of hard to imagine this movie hitting as hard as The Social Network did all those years ago. That movie really changed the way people thought about Facebook. This one might just be too late to do that. But I do think there's another movie coming out soon called Artificial that might do it to OpenAI. Meanwhile, Microsoft just showed off its latest Surface devices, including the Surface Laptop Ultra and the Surface RTX Spark Dev Box. All this new hardware is expensive. The Ultra starts at $2,600, and it's the cheap one. But it's also impressive, and it is very much designed for people who want to develop with AI.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  In case you hadn't noticed, Microsoft is all in on Copilot, agents, and AI in general. Although, the Surface Laptop Ultra is also apparently the first laptop ever with built-in magnetic USB-C charging, in case that's a thing you're into. And finally, we have what looks like some new leaks on Apple's smart home plans. The company appears to be partnering with LG to make a bunch of new devices and accessories, like a smart lock, a thermostat, and a bunch of other things. Apple doesn't do a lot of blessing products made by other companies, so I'm very curious to see how all this shakes out whenever we hear more about Apple's smart home plans, which might be next week. You can read more about all this at theverge.com. That is 90 Seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, October 7th.

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• 6:31Speaker 01

  All right, let's talk headphones. The Verge's John Higgins is here. Hi, John.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  It's good to see you. It's been a minute.

• 6:36Speaker 02

  It has, it has. It's great to see you as well.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  I also feel like you've had kind of a busy fall, and this is like, I was particularly excited to talk to you coming back, because my grand theory of this moment that we are is, it sort of seems like this might be the best moment ever for headphones. And I mean that like non-hyperbolically, like I think this legitimately might be the best set of headphones available to people that we've ever had. Am I, am I crazy? I want to get into some of the specifics, but it just seems like we've had this run of great stuff coming from all corners, at all price ranges, all over the place. Is it, is it as good as it seems to me right now?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I feel like it is, and it's, it's strange, because just a few months ago, I was lamenting the fact that there wasn't interesting new things happening in headphones. And I mean, I got what I wished for, right? Like, the past month and a half in particular, we've had some really interesting headphones come out. And also, just in the past week, news from Bose of some interesting features being added to existing headphones.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Do you think there's something happening? Like, is there something in the water right now, either technically or in, in supply chains? Is there something whose time has come in this space? Or is it just kind of a delightful accident that everybody decided to release great headphones all at once this September or October?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  I think it's a couple of things. I think headphones have naturally been getting better and better as we learn more about how they work and what people prefer with them. So there's just that natural improvement that takes place over time.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  But then everybody's like, let's just do it this fall. Like, late summer, fall, let's just get stuff out. And here we are with, with new headphones coming out that are, that are interesting.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  There is something to, obviously, just that it's Q4, it's the holiday season. This is when people launch these things, like, they don't call it Techtemper and Techtober for nothing. But I went back to previous years, and we've gone through this interesting thing over the years, and you've been covering this for a long time, so you know this as well as anybody, where there have been a bunch of companies that have been kind of slowly leapfrogging one another all the time, right? And it was like Bose, Sony, occasionally like Sennheiser would do something great, but there's this small set of headphones that are just constantly one-upping each other, right? And especially in the high end, everything would get slightly better. But for the longest time, there wasn't sort of new, exciting stuff. You would just get the next model because it was very slightly better than the last model.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  And your headphones broke, get the next one because it'll probably be slightly better. This year, it feels like we've had not only all of these companies launching kind of all at once, which is new and unusual, but also it feels like there's a bunch of new technology that we've just sort of figured out. And I'm particularly curious how you feel about noise cancellation, because it seems to me that not that long ago, who has the best noise cancellation in like a high-end set of headphones was a big and important question, and was a reason to buy one over the other, because some really sucked and some really didn't. Now it sort of seems like every time you turn around, pretty much everybody has good noise cancellation. That if you want like a good set of headphones to wear on the plane, to make the plane less loud, you're sort of spoiled for choice now.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Like, we've just figured out noise cancellation in kind of an incredible way.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Basically, yeah. And that would, like, that was the main leapfrogging, like you were talking about, right? It was Sony would come out with the XM4, and then Bose would come out with, I think the next one was the QC45, and then Sony would up them again with the XM5. And it was them going back and forth for headphones, and then Apple would come out with the Max, or actually, that was before, because that was 2020.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Once every 16 years, Apple makes new headphones.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, that's their market, right? But, but they were pushing it with, with earbuds significantly, right? So. We got to the point, there's only so much noise you can block. Also, before it starts just feeling weird in your ears.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  I have colleagues that refer to this as eardrum suck. Where you put it on and the, when, when the noise cancelling activates, it actually feels like this strange sucking sensation to your ears.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Because you're losing some of the ability to balance what's happening outside with what's happening within the ear cup. So it, for some people, it can feel really disconcerting.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  If it's really strong. And everything is just kind of getting to be really good. Because other companies that might not have the millions of dollars to put into the research or the time that Bose has put in. I mean, Bose is the noise cancelling company, right? But they're able to learn from that and purchase some of that technology to put into their headphones that they wouldn't have been able to research on their own. So everybody's is getting better. To the point where, as you said, that's not the reason necessarily to get headphones anymore. I mean, if you want the best, you're going with a Sony, you're going with a Bose.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  If you want it to work with your Apple stuff as best as possible, you're going with the, with the Max 2. But yeah, that's not the defining factor. That's not the leapfrogging anymore. Everybody makes headphones that do noise cancelling real well. And down into, you know, Anchor, Soundcore stuff does a good job. I mean, you can get into $40 and $60 earbuds from companies like Earfund that have been around for a few years and make bargain level products that have great noise cancelling, as well as other features and good sound and all that sort of stuff.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  So it is, it's pretty remarkable where we've come from just three or four years ago.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have this pair of headphones that I bought from the TikTok shop. This company, Picken or Pickun or something. They're, they're literally the most egregious knockoffs you could imagine of the AirPods Pro Max. And in almost every way, they are vastly inferior, except noise cancelling, at which they are great. And it's just, it is one of those things, that was one, a really eye opening moment for me. It was like, these $40, obvious knockoff headphones have perfectly adequate noise cancellation. And it was like, oh, this is great. So to that point, though, is there a new arms race? What, what do these companies have left to fight about and compete on? And try to one up each other for, especially at the high end of the market? Is there anything left?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  I think it's adding features that maybe have been newer. One of the ones that I've been most excited about over the past few years is Auricast.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I was gonna ask you about Auricast. Okay, good.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so just for people that aren't aware of what it is, it's, I think the easiest way to think about it is it's a way for your headphones to connect to an open broadcast in the same way that your car stereo connects to an FM broadcast. It's not as far range, but what can happen is if you're at the airport, like the, the, the big examples are an airport or a lecture hall or, or even at home, you can do it with some TVs, like LG and Samsung include it with some of their TVs, although they don't promote it as much as I would like.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  But what it does is you, it transmits out a audio signal, an audio broadcast that an Auricast capable headphone can then connect to. And it's not like multipoint where you can only get a couple, you know, you can only connect to a couple things at a time. Any number of headphones that support Auricast have the ability to connect to a, a broadcast. So you're at the airport and they're broadcasting out the gate announcements, which are very difficult to, to make out, at least for me.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Right?

• 15:02Speaker 01

  That's my experience in the airport every time.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Was that my gate? Was that the gate next? Wait, who, who was that for? And I'm, I am already stressed about travel. So adding the stress of not knowing what the announcements are is another thing. But then you can get those announcements directly to your headphones and be able to hear clearly what's going on. If you are in a lecture hall and the professor has a Auricast microphone, they can broadcast that directly to your headphones. So you don't miss anything that you might need to learn for the next final.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  It's great for accessibility and people that have difficulty hearing or difficulty picking out what they need to hear from a noisy environment. At the gym, you can put those on, get the audio from the TV. You know, stuff like that. And block out, with your noise cancelling, block out all of that music that you might not want to hear.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, Auricast is one of those things that not that long ago, I, I kind of poo-pooed as sort of a solution in search of a problem, right? Like neat idea that you can connect a bunch of headphones to a thing. But what is this really for? And I think what you just described strikes me as exactly right, where it's, it's the kind of thing that will be a killer app in a thousand tiny little pieces, right? That you can just, some people might have one specific thing. Like my example of this is, I have a newborn child who sleeps a lot, but is also very disturbed by the action movies that I like to watch at 2 o'clock in the morning while she's like feeding on top of me. And being able to like sit next to my wife and have us both wear a pair of headphones

• 16:39Speaker 01

  and watch TV is like an honest to God, life-changing technological use case right now. And not everyone will have that particular use case. I, I spend a lot of time now finagling the Roku private listening thing through my phone, which like kind of works. But it is this thing that if you can just make the technology work more seamlessly, I think there's actually a lot of stuff you will start to see once a feature like Auricast is supported everywhere. So it's, it seems to me like it is totally a solution in search of a problem until it's everywhere. And then we might see a lot of cool stuff start to happen. And it does seem like pretty quickly, all these companies are starting to adopt it, which is awesome.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's the adoption that's the issue, right? Cause you need, you need the ability to receive it in the headphones, but you need places to actually be broadcasting these signals.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Right. And it's like if one in 10 people who come in are gonna have an Auricast set of headphones, who cares? But by the time you have most of the major brands supporting it, it becomes essentially everybody is covered, which I think is really cool. And feels like it's covered.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the TV thing at home at night, I think is one of the best use cases for everybody. And it's, it's something that like Sonos is trying to, to do with their new Ace Ultra headphones. By adding the ability, or they had them on the, on the original Ace 2, but being able to get, connect to your TV audio from a soundbar.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  A shockingly difficult problem in the world, given all the technology we have. But it is, it's cool to see that slowly starting to get better. I do want to come to the Sonos headphones because they're, they're one of five models here that I'm gonna ask you about specifically. But before we do, there's one other category I think is interesting, which is these open ear headphones, which not that long ago felt like a very sort of niche thing. They were like the, the Shox open ear ones that you wore with the headband. They were for runners. Now it feels like this is a really sort of completely mainstream new kind of headphones that are showing up. What do you make of open ear headphones? Why the sudden explosion in models of this kind?

• 18:42Speaker 02

  Well, when you're working out outside in particular, when you're running, you need to be able to hear what's around you, just for safety. And for a while, you know, one of my favorite running headphones or series of, of running headphones, or I should say earbuds, were from Jabra. They made fantastic workout, either running or, or, you know, at the gym or something. And then they pulled out of the consumer earbuds market.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  I was just about to say, Jabra is one of those names that I remember like 20 years ago shopping for, and I have not heard the name Jabra in some time.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  It's been, I want to say, three years or so since they completely pulled out of consumer earbuds. They've re-entered into sort of like work hybrid earbuds, things like that. But they were focusing on hearing aids and, and assistive listening. But that sort of, those were great and it sort of left a void. But those were also, you know, you put them in your ears and they either have a wing or they have like a grippy surface to keep them in there when you're running down the street.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  A lot of people don't like the feeling of stuff in their ears. You know, it's not comfortable.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  I'm one of those people. Yep.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you're, you and so many others. And it makes sense to not want to jam something in your ear and then you're worried about it.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  You talk about like the, the ear pressure and that sucking feeling. Like I get that feeling when I shove something all the way into my ear canal. And especially with things that feel a little flimsy and you feel like you have to like really shove it into your skull for them not to fall out of your head. I hate that. I have always been team AirPods over team AirPods Pro for that exact reason.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it makes sense. Cause they more sit in instead of, or sit on your ear as opposed to really in. They're some semi-open.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think this is why I'm so excited about the rise of open ear headphones in general. They just feel like they solve that problem for me in a really exciting way.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know, they, there was the bone conduction solution that was around and is still, you know, being used. Now they use what, what marketing terms call air conduction, which is, you know, just how sound works.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Sound? I was just gonna say, I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure that's what sound is.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  It's unbelievable.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  But yeah, the fact that they sort of sit around your ears, so they're not coming off. I haven't found any of these open earbuds where I've felt an issue, like they're gonna, they're gonna fall out, specifically the clip ones too. But.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  They're just, they're shooting the sound into your ear. So are you getting as good sound quality as you would get with something that is actually securely in your ear? No, you can't get that sort of bass response. You can't get the separation from the ambient noise that's happening outside. But as I, you know, you don't necessarily want that. You want to be able to hear what's happening around you. And these allow you that. They allow you to hear music. They are secure. It, it's, it solves a lot of the problems that people have when it comes to workout headphones. Or if you're going down the street and you just want to be aware you're walking at night.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Maybe not you or I, but if you're a woman walking at night, you want to be able to hear what's around you.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  And you might still want the, the idea, just the look of being separated from, from people so they don't bother you as well. So I think they, they serve a few different things. And, you know, are they the best sounding things in the world? No. Will they be the best sounding things in the world? No. Are they fine? Yep.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I've walked around with them. The Sony ones are pretty good. But yeah, I, I'm happy with that series of stuff that's come out and that there's now a solution for people that want to work out that don't want to jam things in their ears.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I'm really bullish on that category in general for, for all the reasons you said. And because I think increasingly there are a lot of people who just kind of leave a headphone in, right? Like, I think it is so societally normal now to just have a one headphone.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Which is still weird to me.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  I mean, fair.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  I don't know if I like that. I'm also like an old man yelling at clouds right now, but like, I don't, just take them out.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  I can tell you from experience, we're going to get a lot of emails on both sides of this argument.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  And please know that I hear all of you. But I do think that, that thing where I can, I can get enough information, right? I can hear the podcast. I can hear the Siri response or the Gemini response. Like you have that little bit of latent connection without being a completely immersive thing, I think is a, is a really cool and good use of this kind of technology. I still think most of them look stupid. Like the ones that just clip on your ear just look weird to me. It does not feel to me like we have solved this form factor. But if you, if you find the ones that you're like, oh, these don't look like weird, bad earrings, I'm very excited to hear about them.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist, and Colin Martin, head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, hosts Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist, and Colin Martin, head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Before I let you get out of here, I, I want to, I want to run through five of the specific models that you've talked about. And I want you to just give me kind of the, let's steal the Netflix rating system, which is, you know, thumbs up, two thumbs up, or thumbs down.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Which to me is the only good rating system that exists anywhere. And someday we'll get deep into my feelings about that. But I think there's a bunch of interesting models out there right now. And I just want to kind of get your temperature on a bunch of them. Does that sound good?

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  All right. Let's start with the Nothing Headphone 1 Pro, which I think are a very unexpected and new kind of thing from this, this upstart headphone brand, Nothing. What do you make of these?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  They surprised me. I'm going to be honest.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Uh, one, I was surprised they used the stupid Apple bra case idea.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  What if our case accomplished Nothing and looked stupid? Is that what you're talking about?

• 26:33Speaker 02

  I mean, if you're going to steal from Apple, why are you stealing? But beyond that, they have the Nothing look, right? I mean, that's one of the things I think Nothing does really well is they separate themselves apart from other headphones by having a very distinct and cohesive look across the line. So kudos to the design team on that. They're also really comfortable. They, they sound, they sound good. I'm going to be updating my, my review of them actually with, with a score, but I, I like, for the most part, how they sound.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  I like that I can do a bit of tuning for my preference in a way that is just less harsh on the highs. But they, and they come with this interesting mode where it's called flat EQ that they worked with a studio in London. And it, the idea is it's for mixers so that they can flatten out the EQ. I haven't done measurements for it. I haven't seen measurements for it. I'm waiting for sound guys to do their measurements because they do great, great measurements. So I'm curious as to how flat it actually is. But for those that are looking for that, I think it's an interesting way to just flip

• 28:01Speaker 02

  a switch, literally, and get a different sound. So I will, I, I'm, they're definitely a thumbs up for me. Two thumbs up is, is a real high bar.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I agree with that.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  For me, when it comes to headphones.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  I'm curious if any of these are going to get two thumbs up from you, actually, which I'm, I'm excited to get into here. But I, I think, I think I agree. And I think it's been cool to see Nothing, which has done a really good job with cheap earbuds.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Like for, for a hundred dollars, you'd be hard pressed to find a better set of earbuds than what Nothing has made the last couple of, of revs. So it's, it's cool to see them playing around at the higher end this way, too.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  400 bucks.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  I know, that's the high end.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Definitely high end.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Unfortunately.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  But I mean, they're right up against Sony's, they're right up against Bose. They're right up against Apple Max on sale, on significant sale. So.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Next on my list, the Sonos Ace Ultra, a somewhat confusing set of headphones at this moment. Uh, how are you feeling about it?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  I think they're the ace headphones that they should have come out with two years ago.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I think that seems right. Like, what if we did the ace but correctly this time? Seems like kind of the answer.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the problem was the ace were, were, they were good headphones, but they weren't Sonos headphones, right? Like, they had that TV swap, but you needed a Sonos soundbar in order to do it. And I will say, for the Ace Ultra, that TV audio swap, you still need a Sonos soundbar to do it. But you can also toss audio back and forth with your Sonos speaker system. So it's finally, you can finally stream music over Wi-Fi to them. The quality is still in beta, so hopefully as far as the bitrate and sampling rate, that will go up because it's, it's not high-res at the moment.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  The capability, and that's sort of what you would want it from Wi-Fi, is a high-res capability because it can do high-res because of the bandwidth. They're not like fully Sonos ecosystem yet. Because you need to pull the audio from another speaker. So you can't group them with the speakers in your system. So while they are now definitively Sonos headphones, and they are really great headphones, especially for Sonos users. There's still that extra step that could just make them the best integrated headphone

• 30:37Speaker 02

  possibility for a Sonos user.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  The Ace has always been so frustrating because it's not hard to look at and understand what it ought to be, right? Like, if you own Sonos gear, you can see how it should fit into your ecosystem. And it basically didn't at all in any way that made sense with the first Ace. This one seems like it's much closer. But I agree with you. It's still not quite kind of a drop-in part of your system in the way that it ought to be.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  But they sound a little bit better than the old ones.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Which I was sort of on the fence about, there's the original sound. They're super comfortable. I, I can wear these all day, no problem.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  That's huge.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  And, you know, they look like Sonos headphones. Like they, again, they kept the same sort of look. It's very understated. You're not flashy. You're not, you're not having that transparent look of the Nothing. But yeah, I think they, they made a, a real great move forward with those. So another thumbs up for me.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  I'll take it. All right. Next up on my list, let's just do the AirPods 5 quick because this, this one is for me personally, as a constant loser of AirPods. The new ones seem like they are better in the way that every set of AirPods has always been better. Is there something to be excited about in this new rev of AirPods?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Well, they're cheaper.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Cheaper's good.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  The top ends are cheaper.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  That's real. That is something.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  They have noise cancelling, which is sort of a... Surprising thing almost on these. I mean, it's all these open earbuds have noise cancelling to some extent.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  It's noise cancelling in like scare quotes for the most part.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, you can't. It's not possible.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  They're trying their hardest. It's just not a thing. Right, exactly.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, but they do have better noise cancelling than you'll get from like a clip earbud for sure.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Uh, because they are, they're not as open. They're right. While they are technically open, I'd say like a semi-open design. Uh, because they still sit a bit in your ear. So there's a little bit of occlusion happening, uh, blocking a little bit. But, um, yeah, I, I, there's, they're still, they, they look the same as the old ones, the four. Uh, but yeah, they're, they're, they're good. I mean, Apple doesn't make crap, right?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Right. But I think like literally for me personally, I'm at, do I need to replace the ones that I have with these? Because they are so much better. Or is this like a, I will be happy with the improvement when inevitably the ones that I have get run through the wash and die. And it sounds like it's the second thing.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the latter for sure.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Okay, great. I can live with that. Save me some money for now. I appreciate that. Um, all right, two more quick ones, then we're gonna get out of here. Um, the Beats 360, which I think have a chance to be the most controversial one on this list. Uh, I've seen a lot of opinions about the Beats 360 over the last couple of weeks.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am not one that wears over your headphones at the gym.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  I sweat and it gathers around my ears. So I am a earbuds gym person or workout in general person. But if you want to wear, wear over ears, uh, at the gym, they, they do the job. Um, they get sweaty, they get damp for sure. I have, I have an ear cup here. The, the knit, performance knit that they have on it does do a decent job of, of wicking the moisture. Um, and you can relatively easily, you know, clean it off. You're not, you're not submerging this thing or anything like that. So don't, don't do that.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Right. They are IP rated for the first time, right? And that's, that's something, but it's still not, that, there's a big difference between that and waterproof.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  I mean, it's IPX4.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  So it's like the, the lowest bar as far as, uh, workout goes. If, I mean, for most people, that's gonna be fine. If you're a heavy sweater, I, I'd be maybe slightly concerned. Um, but, uh, you know, one of the things that's, that's kind of nice about Beats in general, as far as part of the Apple family, is they have more personality with their designs. Uh, they, they can do more colors. Like we were seeing more colors, uh, or we have been seeing more colors with the Max, which is great. But it feels like maybe the Beats skew a little towards a younger, uh, demographic with, uh, with things they have.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Um, I've got, I've got my pair, uh, that I sent in here. And one of the things I love about these is how easy it is to just take off the ear, ear cup and then switch it.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  That is really nice.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  You know, super fast. Um, and it allows for more personalization as far as your, your style. The, you buy the color of the headphones, but then you can also get different colors of the ear cups.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  I was just about to say, you've got the, the teal headphones there with the black ear cups.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  That looks kind of nice. I'm into it.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And these ear cups are, are actually like a vegan leather type thing.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  Sure. The 360s strike me as headphones I probably wouldn't recommend most people buy. But that if you get them for Christmas this year, you'll probably be psyched about it. Does that make any sense? Like, I think about that sometimes, like, would I be happy if you gave this to me as a gift versus would I go buy it for myself? And these seem like I would be happy if you got these for me as a gift. But I probably, if I'm going out and spending 350 bucks on headphones, I probably wouldn't steer you towards these.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  No, probably not. Uh, I'd steer you more towards, honestly, for the most part at that price, I would say get a year-old model of a Sony. Get an XM5. Uh, that's gonna be on sale, uh, which is great noise cancelling, great sounds. I, I'd go that way, uh, when we get up to that sort of price range in general. Uh, but yeah, the Bose, or not the Bose, the Beats are nice. I like them.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  I wouldn't, I would not work out in them. I did work out in them. But, uh, I wouldn't choose to work out in them. It's just not, not for me.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, this brings me to my last option, which is the Sony. Uh, I literally had to write this down because God help Sony, they can't make a product with a name that makes any sense. The Sony WH1000XM4Cs.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  I could not begin to tell you where this sits in Sony's lineup. But these came out this fall. I would say my headphone heuristic for the last few years has been, they're all good, but Sony's probably the best. Um, what do you make of the, the M4Cs?

• 37:21Speaker 02

  The M4Cs are great for people that loved the XM4s.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  And wanted a new pair. Now, they have.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  That sounds like a dig, but those were great headphones.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  They were great headphones.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  They were probably the most popular Sony headphones. I don't have numbers on that, but I would be willing to, like, they fold up really nice. Um, so they're more compact than what they did with the XM5s.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a pair around here somewhere. I love them.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  The XM6s sort of came back. Well, I have, this is my XM4 that I still have, I, it hangs on my desk. I still use it. Um, and then this is the XM4C. And they are the same.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Boy, is that the same headphone? Yeah.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Um, and you know, the fact that they can fold up and you can put them in the same size case, uh, that you had with the XM4s and, you know, throw them in a backpack, take them on the plane. They, they, uh, do good noise cancelling. They don't do the same noise cancel. It's basically in, inside, it's like the same thing. It's this, it's, it's using the same chip processor. It's using the same number of mics. Um, it sounds like it's a, it's a bit better than the XM4s. But the, I guess the biggest thing is there is a replaceable battery. Although I haven't seen details from Sony on how you replace the battery yet.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  But you're supposed to be able to get a, uh, uh, to have it be replaceable. Which that's, you know, that was the issue with the XM4s. Battery's gone, they're dead. There's nothing you can do.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it seems like the move is probably deal hunt one of the last couple of versions rather than chase the new one, unless the battery thing is really important to you or you care deeply about like Bluetooth version numbers. I mean, I think it's, it's very funny. I always give this, uh, advice to people buying Sony cameras. That like Sony has been making such good point and shoot cameras for a long time that the best deal you can get is like the three versions ago RX100. And it seems like that might be a little bit true here with the headphones that like the, the M4s are almost certainly going to serve most people extremely well, even though they're pretty old headphones at this point.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you can find them. Yeah. I like, I, I, while I keep the XM4s by my desk, um, I kind of like the XM5s better because I don't travel with them, but they're more comfortable. So that's sort of what I like. I, I'm not sure if I would necessarily tell everyone else, run out and get a pair of XM5s, uh, over everything else. Uh, but they are of the Sonys that have been out. I, I, I kind of like them the most as far as, um, how they feel on my head, the clamping force of them. Um, you know, the headphones, because of different head sizes and shapes, it's really a personal choice.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  And I can tell you what works best for me and what I think might work best for most people. Uh, but really it just comes down to trying to get a pair on your heads and try it out.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, agreed. My, my two, my only two recommendations are never test a pair of good headphones unless you are prepared to buy good headphones, because it will ruin you forever. And then, once you decide to go for good headphones, try as many pairs as you possibly can. Uh, because I think you're right. It is, it is a lot of those little things. So last thing, and then I'll let you go. Do you have right now a sort of pat recommendation for like, I, I'm, I'm in that, you know, $300 to $400 range of the high-end, really good mainstream ANC over ear headphones? Which one should I buy? Do you have a go-to answer right now?

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Three to 400? You know, I just said I wouldn't say this for everybody, but I'd probably get the XM5s.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Okay. That's, that's probably my answer too.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  I'd get a used pair.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  The new ones, while they are all a bit better than the past few generations, um, it's not a huge enough leap for me to spend 400, 450, 550 for them.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  I intentionally left the AirPods Max out of this price range because I don't believe anyone should buy the AirPods Max.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, it's, it's for a very specific type of person, I think.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Yes, agreed.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  And I will probably get comments about that.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  I'm okay with that. I am, I am fully, fully okay with that. All right, John, thank you for being here. Good to see you, buddy.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Thanks, David.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  All right, that's it for the show. Thank you again to John for being here and thank you as always for watching and listening. If you have thoughts, questions, feelings about this or anything else that we've talked about on the show, please call the hotline 866-VERGE11, send us an email, [email protected]. We love hearing from you. I am personally very excited to be back and go through all of the hotlines that I missed over the last couple of months and see which ones are the meanest to me specifically. I'm really looking forward to it. As a reminder, the best thing you can do to support all of this is to subscribe to The Verge. You get all of our podcasts ad-free, including this one. You get all of our subscriber newsletters, everything else, theverge.com/subscribe. It's a pretty good website. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, and Travis Larchuk. We will see you tomorrow.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  I'm excited to be back. Rock and roll.

• 42:44Speaker 04

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