USS Liberty Survivor Reveals What Really Happened the Day Israel Attacked & the Lies Covering It Up

USS Liberty deniers will say Israel’s 1967 attack on the U. S. spy ship was a total accident. Marine Staff Sergeant Bryce Lockwood was on the Liberty and says there’s no doubt Israel meant to kill every American on board. (00:00) The Story of the USS Liberty (11:14) What Really Happened During the Attack? (29:14) How Many Americans Were Killed in the Attack? (32:51) When Did Lockwood Realize the Attack Came From the Israelis? (47:25) The People Dismissing the Attack as a Mistake Sgt. Bryce Lockwood is a retired United States Marine Corps veteran and one of the last surviving crew members of the USS Liberty. A Russian linguist and intelligence specialist, he was aboard the virtually unarmed intelligence ship when it was attacked by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. Despite suffering severe burns, he displayed extraordinary heroism by rescuing three trapped sailors from flooded compartments below deck, earning the Silver Star for gallantry and the Purple Heart for his wounds. He later served in Vietnam and retired as a Gunnery Sergeant. Paid partnerships with:Defend: Enter code "Tucker" for 20% off your purchase at https://defendcellcam.com Preborn: America celebrates its 250th birthday, help provide ultrasounds dial #250 and say keyword "BABY" or visit https://preborn.com/TUCKER American Financing: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-685-5696 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www. AmericanFinancing.net/Tucker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Mr. Lockwood, thank you very much for joining us.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  My pleasure.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Tell us, the USS Liberty, many people have heard the name. They're aware there's a controversy about what happened to the ship in 1967. If you wouldn't mind starting at the beginning and telling us the story of the USS Liberty.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  USS Liberty was a spy ship back in the 1960s. Several of the Sichuan African countries had just won their independence from Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, France. There was a heavy influence, both from the Soviet Union and from Cuba. Cubans had a lot of troops around the area. That entire area is very wealthy in natural resources, precious metals. And the United States wanted to keep track of what was going on over there. Mind you, this is when satellites were pretty rudimentary.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  So the best way to gather that information is to get close. The USS Liberty was a World War II Victory-class freighter. She was originally commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory. She saw service as a cargo carrier during the Second World War. Mothballed, brought back out of mothballs for the Korean War. Ammunition carrier for the Korean War. Back into mothballs. And in 1965, when the National Security Agency decided they needed vessels of that type, her hull was probably in the best condition of almost any of them that were in the Ghost Fleet or the mothball fleet. She was brought out of commission.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  The US government spent $26 million in 1965 money, out clipping her with the latest in intelligence collection. We could suck up literally every frequency that was being used. We had aboard her the world's largest mobile computer, the Univac 500. At that time, the world's largest. You could likely do about as much with your cellphone now. But technology's come a long ways in the last 60 years. She was equipped with linguists, cruised up and down the west coast of Africa,

• 3:02Speaker 02

  listening in on to whatever was going on. As war appeared to be imminent between Israel and her neighbors in 1967, the neighbors included what was then called the United Arab Republic, primarily Egypt, Syria, to a lesser extent, some influence from Jordan and Libya.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  The administration sent some F-4 photograph planes, high-performance photo-intelligence planes, to a Tyrone Air Base in Spain. Those markings were obliterated. The pilots were given neutral uniforms and neutral identification and set to overfly Israel's neighbors. When hostilities broke out, June of 1967, the Israelis had intelligence courtesy of the US administration, locating every aircraft for vetment,

• 4:13Speaker 02

  every tank, location of personnel where they were riveted, where they were based, and so forth. Hostilities broke out on the 5th of June, 1967. The National Security Agency had ordered the USS Liberty proceed from her cruise up and down the west coast of Africa with all due speed to Rota, Spain, take on stores, refuel, pick up six additional linguists, and proceed with haste to the eastern Mediterranean where they could monitor what was going on. She was stacked with linguists out of a crew of 294 aboard the ship.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Roughly 190 were intelligence personnel, linguists, code breakers, manual Morse operators, voice intercept operators, and so forth. The Soviets had a group of Tu-95 long-range bombers equipped for intelligence collection at Alexandria, Egypt. They told the world that they'd given those planes to Egypt and that they were manned by Egyptian troops. Such was not the case. They were Soviet troops wearing Egyptian uniforms. The task that we were given is linguists. There were three of us Russian linguists aboard her.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  We had three watch sections rotating, eight hours each. The three of us Russian linguists that were assigned as voice intercept section supervisors, our primary task was catching those Soviet Tu-95 intelligence aircraft at Alexandria. The aircraft would communicate in plain language Egyptian until they were airborne and over the Mediterranean Sea, change frequencies, and go to plain language Russian. It was ironic that while we were under attack, my relief came into the processing and reporting room where I was and said, "Hey, Sarge, I got him, I got him." "You got who, Jim?" "The Ruski's." "Really?"

• 6:25Speaker 02

  He said, "Yeah, plain language Russian." He went back into the room where he was copying the intercept, and torpedoes struck him, killed him. Hostilities broke out on the 5th of June, 1967. We arrived on station on the 7th of June.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Throughout the day of the 7th and in the early morning hours of the 8th of June, we were overflown by several different Israeli aircraft. They flew very close to us. We could plainly see the pilots. The fellows that were off-duty and sunning themselves on the decks would wave to the pilots, the pilots way back. We had a drill general quarters at noon on the morning of the 8th. The captain came on the address system aboard the ship, the 1MC, and told us that there were a few things he wanted us to improve, get to our general quarters stations a little more rapidly,

• 7:29Speaker 02

  get the watertight doors closed a little more rapidly, secure it from the general quarters. I was at my berthing spaces in the aft part of the ship. I heard a tremendous noise, roughly 2 o'clock local time. I had never been under hostile fire before, but I knew that we were in trouble. Immediately dropped where I was doing, headed for my general quarters station, which is below decks. Mind you, the cargo spaces in the fore part of the ship was where all of our intelligence people were, roughly 190 men. The only way out was a narrow, steep ladderway,

• 8:14Speaker 02

  about two feet wide, with a railing.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  The ship would ring whenever a projectile struck it. There were 826 large caliber strikes from aircraft aboard her.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Forty millimeter cannon fire, thirty millimeter cannon fire, heat-seeking rockets, napalm. On either side of the ship or starboard, there were racks that contained life rafts with a charge you jerk on a cord and the charge would go off and fire these life rafts into the sea. Both of those were napalm. The captain's gate was riddled with rocket fire. The Liberty launch was riddled with rocket fire.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Basically, no means of getting any survivors off. The Israelis were jamming our distress frequencies, which was a violation of international law. They were using unmarked aircraft, which is a violation of international law. During the court of inquiry, which was conducted after the attack was over with, ordered by the Joss administration, conducted by three-star Admiral Isaac Kidd. The Israelis said that they had mistaken us for an Egyptian ship. The El Kassir.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  The El Kassir was a World War I horse transport. Her only armament was a four-inch muzzle-loading cannon. Israelis claimed that they were being shelled from the sea. We were the only ship in the vicinity. We had no capacity of shelling anything. The bottom line was, the Israelis had captured an entire Egyptian brigade. They were blowing up the captured ammunition, and that's what the explosions were that they claimed was fire from the sea. Quite obviously, that was not possible from the El Kassir or from us.

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• 13:38Speaker 01

  Let me, let me, let me ask you, let me ask you, when you, you come, you come under fire around 2 o'clock, how long does it last?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  There are various testimonies about that. The claimed air attack lasted about 25 minutes. But of course, when you're under fire and trying to survive, it seems a lot longer. And as I mentioned earlier, the entire ship would ring with each shell struck her. The captain came on the 1MC and said, "Brace yourselves. Torpedo attack, starboard side." Well, that's where I was located. My friend Ronnie Campbell was sitting there at a desk. And he said, "Well, they hit us with everything else. What else can they hit us with?" The division officer, Lieutenant Bennett, stuck his head in the hatchet and he said, "Sergeant Locke, would you come in, please?"

• 14:31Speaker 02

  I stepped out into the passage. I ran down the center of the ship, and he got me in a conversation with Lieutenant Commander David Lewis, who was a senior research officer aboard the ship, about getting these ditching bags topside pitched over in the sea. We had large canvas bags, brass furrows on the sides, lead weight in the bottom. The idea was, all the classified information that we had, get them into these ditching bags, the topside pitched into the sea. Should they be recovered by the time they could be, any information in them would be useless.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  When there was a sudden blinding flash of flame, tremendous loud noise, knocked me to the deck. I was kind of semi-conscious. I'm thinking to myself, "Well, Lord, I guess this is it. I guess I'm coming home. At least, as long as my kids are taking care of me, I've got a life." I felt something cold. I looked down and the water was gushing in. I didn't find out what had actually taken place so many years later. Some of the sailors told me that when the torpedo struck, it literally lifted the ship out of the water and set her back down.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  When she came down and rolled towards the starboard side, there was a roughly 40-foot hole on the side. That water was gushing in. I heard a moan behind me, struggling my feet. There was a sailor trapped there in the wreckage. His name was Joe Lantini. I didn't know who that was until 25 years later. Joe was one of the communicators that worked with the teletype equipment. We weren't getting anything out. Couldn't understand why we weren't getting Mayday out and weren't getting any aid. And a piece of shrapnel from a rocket had penetrated the ship and struck him in the left thigh.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Joe was bleeding profusely. He sat there on the deck and leaned up against the ladder weight, the only way out. I was putting a tourniquet on that wound when the torpedo struck. Our office spaces were separated by sheet steel bulkheads. That bulkhead just mushroomed out, caught him in his left knee, upturned, and literally made toothpicks on his femur bone. And I'm trying to pull him loose. The water was coming up pretty rapidly. And I said, "Come on, you got help. They can't do it by myself. Come on, get your legs on you and push." Well, I didn't realize his left leg was smashed.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  But I felt him get his right leg out and I pushed just enough where I could free him, though he was still partially angled up in that wreckage. By that time, the water was within a foot and a half of the overhead. There were some pipes that carried cable in and power and so forth that was hanging from the overhead. I said, "Here, get a hold of these pipes." About that time, I saw a body floating out towards a hole. I reached down with my right arm and got an arm around him, tried to hold his head above water.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  I heard the division, I'll certainly say to Bennett at the top of the ladder way say, this is Mr. Bennett, open this hatch. There was a lot of confusion. You can imagine roughly 190 people crammed into that space in fear of their lives. A lot of shouting, howling as loud as they could, knock it off if y'all will settle down. None of us will get out of here alive. That was the last thing I remember. I apparently passed out. The next thing I recall was being alone with an unconscious sailor and nobody there but me and the sea and him. The ship was rolling.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  The torpedo had ruptured one of the fuel tanks, which they're on the starboard side. That was the heavy oil that powered the ship. It's a stinking oil. That oil was everywhere. Oil, water don't mix. Of course, you can imagine just about everything was coated with it. I tried to start up the ladder way with this unconscious sailor, slipped, dropped him. He's going back out the hole. Wait, got him, got back, started back up the ladder way. About half or two thirds of the way up the ladder way, a piece of shrapnel from the torpedo

• 19:14Speaker 02

  had bent in the railing, so there's only a space, oh, roughly a foot wide. Got to that point, slipped, dropped him again, going back out the hole and that got him. Back up the ladder way again, got up to the top and the hatch was sealed shut. Trying to hold his head above water, pounded on the hatch and the sailor named Bobby Schnell, there were dogs that held the hatch seal shut around the rubber gasket and about an eight inch high metal seal. Oh, I'm guessing probably a dozen large bolts that bolted it down.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  He got a wrench, knocked those nuts loose and opened the hatch. Let me out. I tried to drag his sailor out, dropped him, tried to drag him again, can't quite get him out, tried to turn him over. His foot caught in the chain that was holding the prop or the hatch open. And literally I was trying to drag his leg off. Phil Turney was one of the damage control people was standing here. He said, wait a minute, he got his foot caught. He freed his foot. He said, the captain has ordered to prepare to abandon ship. He said, you need to get a life vest on. There's been there to have a life vest. And I said, get a life vest on,

• 20:39Speaker 02

  put one on him. And they're doing triage of the most next and after part of the ship. Said, you need to get him back there to triage. I tried to pick him up pretty weak, dropped him, tried to pick him up again, dropped him again. Years later, when I found out who he was, it was some 30 years before he even found out who he was. We were sitting in his kitchen Sunday morning in Chicago and his family is gathered around. I don't want to know what had happened to dad. I'm trying to tell him and his name was Dave McFagan and he kind of blurted out, said, I wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad. You want to drop me so many times?

• 21:21Speaker 02

  He'd been topside in the rocket from one of the air attacks that exploded very close to him and flying you back into the bulkhead. He's wounded from that. He's in a lot of pain. You think, and I gotta get to my GQ station. His GQ station was down below decks. He gets down there just as they slammed the hatch shut, bolted it down. He's sitting on the ladder way with his head in his hands, hurting badly when the torpedo struck. Slam me back into the ladder way and made a mess out of his spine. He's still alive, but barely and confined to a wheelchair now.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Joel Antini passed away from a heart attack some three years ago. The book Assault on the Liberty credits me with diving underwater and freeing Joel Antini's leg. That was actually a sailor named Bobby Schnell that did that. Freed his leg, carried him topside. There's some conversation that I carried a man out, went back down, senior listed man, Stan White, that charged, you can't go back down there. Stan has since passed away too, but he told me, he said, you gave me a kind of a blank stare and went back down. I don't recall any of that.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  I think there's a good possibility. I was confused with someone else, but the Navy Marine Corps uniform is a different color. We were told to go to the radio room on the port side of the ship. I was lying on the deck in a radio room and I couldn't understand why we weren't getting any hay. There was machine gunning going on. The motor torpedo boats were circling the ship, riddling us with heavy machine gun fire.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  There were 3,100 heavy caliber machine gun strikes on the ship. One of the radio men figured out that when they were shooting rockets at us, they couldn't jam our distress frequencies because the enemy would have screwed up the flight of the rockets. In a brief period when those rockets were being fired, this mayday went out. Firefox, Firefox, this is Rockstar, Rockstar. Under attack by unidentified surface and air units require immediate assistance.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  As soon as that mayday was acknowledged, the shooting stopped. I saw some sailors carry three inflatable life rafts through the radio room. Heard them fall into the sea. There were lines attached to keep them from floating away. I heard a revving of engines from where machine gun fire. One of those sailors came back through the radio room and he said, I don't know what we're going to do now. They've riddled what we had left. It is my understanding that that machine gun fire severed the line that was holding one of those life rafts.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  The torpedo boat came in, picked it up, plainly labeled, US Navy. Can't be proven I'd had it, no idea, but I heard a rumor that that life raft and the ship's wheel from the torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo are in the Israeli Naval War Museum at Haifa as trophies of war.

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• 27:09Speaker 01

  So did at any, at any point, did the torpedo boats come to the aid of survivors? What, when the Israelis stopped firing on the Liberty after your mayday call was received, did they help in any way, the survivors?

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Actually, we heard some helicopters overhead. I did not see them myself, but the deck crew told me that two large armored helicopters came over, fully loaded with armed troops, automatic weapons, hand grenades. It seems fairly obvious. The idea was, save the ship, kill everyone aboard it, no survivors.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  We think there's a very good possibility that we were set up by our own government. The President, Lyndon Bage Johnson, was very friendly towards Israel. Um, his predecessor, John F. Kennedy, had actually given a speech about the necessity for, um, discourse between the Palestinians and Israelis about getting some 700,000 refugees from the so-called War of Independence, Israel, 1947, 48. They were driven from their homes. Israelis said they were voluntary, voluntarily left.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  My personal opinion is there was nothing voluntary about it. They were told to leave or be destroyed. Kennedy conversation was to have at least a portion of those refugees be allowed to return to their ancestral homes. As a result of our Congress or President doing nothing about the attack on the US National Liberty. The Court of Inquiry accepted the Israelis' excuse that it was a case of mistaken identity. Case was closed. As a result of our doing nothing, Israel realized they could do whatever they wanted.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  The United States Congress, the United States Administration, who would say nothing, do nothing.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  I beg, I'm sorry to interrupt. Why, I just want to go back to what you said about your belief that the Johnson Administration knew that this attack was coming on the Liberty. Why do you think they would have allowed that?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Commander Lewis, who was a senior in Towsers officer aboard a ship, and I both had pretty much the same wounds. My glasses protected my face from debris. His eyes were sealed shut. We were both led back off to the carrier America. Admiral Lawrence Larry Geis, who was Task Force Six commanding officer, like, looted the carriers USS Saratoga, USS America, and the guided missile cruiser, the USS Little Rock, um, asked for Commander Lewis to come to his stateroom. This is several days after the attack had taken place.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  He swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until after his death, told him that he had ordered aircraft to come to our aid. Planes were launched from the USS Saratoga. They had nuclear weapons aboard them. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them returned. Uh, both Admiral Geis and skipper of the Saratoga, Captain Joseph Tully, um, figured out that that was probably because there were nuclear weapons aboard them. They were recovered. Conventional aircraft with conventional weapons were relaunched to come to our aid. Captain Tully re-notified Washington.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Secretary of Defense McNamara came on the circuit again and ordered those aircraft returned. Admiral Geis said, "I want to exercise my authority and hear that from higher authority." Well, the only higher authority was the President. This is the conversation that was related to David Lewis from Admiral Geis. The President said, "Get those aircraft back. I will not have my allies embarrassed." They were using unmarked aircraft, and we did not know who was attacking us. How did the President know?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  The number two man in the US CIA at the time was a gentleman named James Angleton. James Angleton was not only the number two man in US Central Intelligence Agency, US Double Agent, Israeli Mossad. Many of us survivors believed that we were set up by our own government. False flag operation. Sink the ship. No survivors. Blame it on Egypt. Get the United States involved on the side of Israel against their neighbors. And excuse me, Tucker, what's happening now?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  The, the head of counterintelligence that you, you mentioned, James Jesus Angleton, uh, was also clearly involved in the Kennedy assassination. Um, the beneficiary of which was, of course, Lyndon Johnson and Israel. Uh, I-

• 32:49Speaker 02

  That's behind my comprehension, Tucker.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  I, I don't doubt that.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's pretty, it's pretty clear, I think, from documents that have subsequently been, uh, released. Um, so how many, just to, to end the, to wrap up the story of what actually happened that day, how many Americans were killed in the attack?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  There were 34 Americans killed. Uh, one civilian, Alan Blue, he was a Arabic linguist from National Security Agency. Uh, the two Marines were both killed, Sergeant Jack Raper, Corporal Ed Raymire. They were both Arabic linguists. And, um, the balance of the, uh, 31 were all sailors. They were all linguists, Manymorphs intercept operators.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  How many were wounded?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  34 killed. There were, uh, 208 Purple Hearts awarded, 174 wounded. Several of the crewmen that were wounded were never awarded Purple Hearts. Uh, Jack Beatty, um, he was a machinist mate who was working on the, he was changing oil on the Liberty launch, the enlisted launch when the air attack took place. He had a shot on the back of his head. He didn't find out about too many years later when Veterans Administration performed the X-ray on his skull.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Um, there was another Navy chief, Joe, last name slips me by right now. He had one of those heavy caliber strikes in his left calf. He was the Boy Scout instructor, new first aid, took that projectile out of his leg himself, wrapped himself up. He was never awarded a Purple Heart. There were others.

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• 37:04Speaker 01

  When did you find out it was the Israelis who'd attacked the ship?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Not until the next morning in my, my own recollection. Uh, the aircraft were all unmarked. The torpedo boats were flying the Star of David. One of the officers that was on the deck happened to be Jewish. When he saw the Star of David flag, I understand he broke out in tears.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  The torpedo boats that fired machine guns at the Liberty, I mean, they must have been close enough to see the American flag flying over the ship.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Yes. Uh, our, our initial flag was flying from Flagstaff at the back of the main mast. That was knocked down in one of the first air, air attacks. Uh, our signalman ran that back up again. It was knocked down again. And then he ran up the holiday flag, which is five feet by eight feet. Largest flag we had aboard ship. Uh, that flag was literally riddled with trypnel.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  He ran that up on the, uh, one of the port signal arms, which is on a port side. But we had a good breeze blowing that day. The flag was out there. Pretty obvious. Uh, Egyptian ships are painted black with hall markings in Arabic script. Um, every highway sign in Israel is in Hebrew Arabic script and English lettering. So that excuse falls away. Um, US ships are painted gray with hall markings and English lettering.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  Our hall marking was GTR five, which stands for General Tactical Research, the fifth, the newest of her class. Tactical Research means that she's a noncombatant. It's a violation of international law to fire on noncombatants. The Israelis were wriggling our life rafts with machine gun fire. That's a violation of international law. The irony of that is that came about as a result of refugee ships being machine gunned by Nazi wolf packs during World War Two.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  What did your commanding officers tell you about the motive for this attack? So you're, you're lying, recovering, you've got wounds to your face and your hands. And someone at some point explains to you why this happened. What did that person say?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Um, honestly, I didn't hear anything. Um, years later, when I reconnected with some of the crew and it was well over 20 years later before I reconnected with any of the crew. Uh, I say it's 1982 before I reconnected with any of the crew. So this is what 15 years afterwards. Um, I honestly didn't know. Most of us were pro-Israel that were aboard the ship. It's kind of ironic that one of our analysts, uh,

• 40:33Speaker 02

  he, he was processing the United Arab Republic traffic that we were getting. He made a small UAR flag and had that stuck in his out basket. Most of the crew were smoking back then. They'd walk by and say, hey, Rich, your Arabs are doing so well. And they set fire to his flag and he said, no, cut that out, put it out. One of the sailors had made a huge Star David out of telltale paper. That was pasted up on the starboard bulkhead. That Israeli torpedo struck within a few feet of that Star David flag.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Did you talk about this after? Did you do interviews with the media? Did you tell your friends, your family? Like, how did you respond to this once you recovered?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  My situation was a little different. I was on temporary assignment from my home base in Bremerhaven, Germany. It's 10 days aboard the carrier America. Uh, flown back to, uh, Luca Malta where the ship was dry docked. Um, I was one more day aboard her there. This guy, Veronica, didn't have a place to sleep and one of the sailors said, I'll go up to Sip Bay and talk to Dr. Van Lane. He said, he'll find you a place to sleep up there. We're kind of chatting. It was getting long late in the afternoon and he said, you're welcome. There were three bunks there. He said, you're welcome sleeping whichever one you want.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  I said, oh, that doesn't get to stink in the night. He said, what's that, Tom? There was a box in the corner, roughly 18 inches square. It was labeled unidentified human body parts. That's what's buried in the mast grave in Arlington National Cemetery. And I slept with it that night. Two of the men that worked for me were in that box. What was left of that.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Were you told by the, the US military, by the Marine Corps, by the Navy, uh, not to talk about this?

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Um, well, mind you, we're in intelligence business and just don't talk about it. There's an old saying, what you see here, what you say here, when you leave here, leave it here. Uh, I did not talk about it outside of secure spaces. When I got back to my home base in Bremerhaven, I was put on 12 on, 12 off watch. I talked about it rather freely in the secure spaces. My wife didn't know what happened to me. Um, I was not supposed to tell him when I was aboard this ship, but no one bothered to tell me I wasn't. When I first got aboard her, the petty officer of the deck was a longtime friend of mine, Ronnie Campbell.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I said, Ronnie, I need to let Lois know where I'm at. Can you give me the address of the ship? Well, he gave me the FBO address and I got a postcard, wrote it on, told my wife I'd be aboard her, don't know how long. I'll let you know sometime in the future. Dropped it in the mail. She'd received that card, knew I was aboard it. Um, on the ninth of June, a dear friend of hers that lived across the street in Bremerhaven waved to her to come over. She went over and said, did you hear about that US ship being attacked? I goes, oh. She said, yeah, the USS Liberty.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Well, I said, I think Bryce is aboard that ship. Well, that set a panic button. Um, when I got back home, uh, I was a mess. I had to borrow a uniform from one of the Marines aboard the carrier America. There happened to be a African-American Marine, same build that I was, real gentleman. Uh, same rank as I was, blowing me a khaki uniform. I had to wear that uniform the next five days. Part of that was when I got back to the ship, that oil was everywhere. Where you went, you get drops of that oil all over you. So I stunk from that.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  I had fever blisters in my face and this yellowish pus was oozing out, dripping over the front of me. The morning I got back, couldn't get in the apartment, a second floor apartment. The neighbor, Betty Bryant, came to the door. Said, old Bryce, said, uh, Lois went out to the base to get the mail. I said, come on in. I'll get you a cup of coffee. She sent me around behind the door, gave me a cup of coffee. A while later, she said, oh, here she is now. Well, she'd just gotten the mail and she'd just gotten a letter from her mother that her grandfather had passed away. My wife didn't get along very well with her mother, but she wished her grandfather's pride and joy.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  She's all broken up about that. Betty, he says, Lois, you need to come in here. The three kids are there. See, Marcia, our oldest one was, uh, six. Dorothy was four. John was, uh, three. And, uh, I was the ugliest mess, stunk to high heavens. Kids are screaming, my wife crying. The, uh, Marine commander calls me to his office the next day and says, best thing for you to do, forget about this, is go to work. Put me on 12 hours on, 12 hours off watch standing.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  I had to go to the doctor on my time off, get my wounds taken care of. Um, the Navy set a JAG officer, Lieutenant Commander, all the way from Washington with a sheaf of papers for him to sign. He never bothered to tell me personally, you are not to talk about this. I talked about it freely in the secure spaces because these fellows, many of them had been aboard the Liberty. Uh, or ships of her class doing the same task. If they weren't, they would be in the near future, likelihood. So they all were aware of that. So I talked freely about it, but I did not tell my wife anything.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  She had no idea what was wrong with me. I'd wake up screaming and crying. And she had no idea. And it wasn't until, um, I think it was January of 1981. I was in Bible college in Springfield, Missouri.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Class was broken up over the Christmas holidays. I'm sitting in home Linux class, waiting for the class to start on Monday morning. And one of my classmates comes in, he says, Bryce, were you aboard ship with torpedo? I said, how did you know about that? Well, he had been in Texas over Christmas holiday. He was on his way back late in the evening, listening to National Public Radio program used to run called Radio Reader. They were reading a book by James M. Ennis Jr. Salt on the Liberty. And it was on page 86, the narration about what I had done that day.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  And my name was there. And it wasn't until, I think, the following year, I'd taken a position as assistant pastor at church in Key West. The city library librarian was a member of the church. And I asked her if she had a copy of that book. She said, yeah, but there's a six-month-long waiting list for us. Well, put me on the list. When it became available, I immediately wrote a letter to a random house publishers and said, I'd like to get ahold of the author, James Ennis. They said, well, we can't give you his information, but we'll forward your letter to him. Just a few days after that, I got a thick packet of mail from Mr.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Ennis, had copies of the, the ship had a newsletter that they put out and mailed to all the crew, but they didn't know where I was until then. Back issues, a list of survivors, their contact information. I immediately started calling the crew, but that wasn't until, I think, 1986. We had a reunion in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That was the first one that I went to. There was a library in Grafton, Wisconsin, about 30 miles north of Milwaukee. The town had built a new high school.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  The old high school was an old building, roughly a century old, but perfectly serviceable. The town wanted to make that a public library. So they had a committee to raise funds. There are a couple of industrial donors, the Grove Brothers. Tech Group was one of them, gave a six-figure donation, mind you, 40 years ago, it was pretty high sum of money. So the committee said, well, we'll give you the privilege of naming the library.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  And he said, well, I'd like that to be named the USS Liberty Memorial Library. Well, during World War II, not far from Grafton, Wisconsin, was a Nazi youth camp. Could you imagine what that implied for the Jewish population of the city of Milwaukee? That raised a firestorm. But it went forward. And to the best of my knowledge, there was no violence. Well, and to this day, it's still the USS Liberty.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  So that was 19 years after the attack. And I remember 1986, '07. That, at that time, the consensus was that this was an accident. Like, if you learned about the USS Liberty at school, which you probably didn't, but if you did, you would be taught that this was a case of mistaken identity, that the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian ship.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Well, I suppose you could claim that the Israeli pilots were colorblind. The Egyptian ships are painted black, ours are painted gray. You can't jam the structures for good sees by accident. You must know your target. So that falls by the wayside. The machine gunning of life rafts, that's pretty obvious. That's a violation of accepted law.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  How did it make you feel as a survivor of the attack to hear people dismiss it as a case of mistaken identity?

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Well, at that time, I had a small trucking company, and it was, you pretty well had to work around the clock. If I had a grain hauling business, two trucks, three trailers. When I wasn't booking loads, I was hauling loads. So I wasn't booking or hauling loads. I was under changing the oil or fixing this or fixing that. I barely had time to think. It really wasn't till sometime after that where I happened to get a job with a union company, had a little more income coming in. We were able to attend a reunion in Washington, DC. And that's where I began to really find out about what all had taken place.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  That was later in the 1980s, early 1990s.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  And what, what did you find out?

• 52:47Speaker 02

  I didn't know the names of any fellows that I pulled out or was creditless saving their lives. Joe Lantini, even though I kept him from drowning, I didn't actually get him out of there. And Dave McFagan, it was not until 1997, a reunion in 1997, I found out that was. It's pretty ironic. He was in a hospital at Naples, Italy. He'd taken some travel on his privates. Doctors told him he'd probably never have any more children. Well, he did have, he had a boy and a girl. At that reunion, one of the other fellows that I thought that I had brought out there

• 53:29Speaker 02

  was Harold Six, Gene Six. Gene was his nickname. And he and I were having a beer, kind of joking around, and someone else came in, that dug in the bathroom, was full of ice water and beer. We're in there yakking, and somebody came in and said, hey, Sarge, there's another guy here too, saved his life. Really? Went out into the other room, and there's Dave McFagan in a wheelchair with his daughter, born later, after the attack, pushing him in a wheelchair.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Now, the anniversary, the 59th anniversary of the attack on the Liberty was just the other day, within the last week. And it was a topic that was discussed in public. And you heard people defend the Israeli government by saying they didn't know it was an American ship, and anyone who says otherwise is an anti-Semite, hates Jews. How would you respond to that?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Anyone who knows anything about international recognition of ships at sea would conclude differently, would have to conclude differently. It's very obvious that it was a deliberate attack. Dave Lewis, prior to his death, was giving an interview, and he said, if it was an attack, it was a best-planned attack in military. The ammunition that they were using, targets that they were doing, heat-seeking missiles designed to knock out all of our heavy M transmitting antennas.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  It had to all be planned in advance. The upshot, in my opinion, the whole thing. Israel is grabbing Palestinian lands. Gaza Strip in total rubble. 70,000 documented killed, probably twice that many buried in the rubble that could never be recovered for the time it's elapsed. United States supplying the bombs. Israel invading their neighbors to the north, Lebanon.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  There are a million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip homeless as a result of Israel's actions. Lebanon, southern Lebanon, whole towns destroyed and leveled. A million Lebanese refugees without a home. Where is the humanity? Shouldn't that be on the conscience of every American that we're supplying the bombs? That we're supplying Israel with $3.8 billion a year in foreign aid? Shouldn't that shake our conscience?

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Well, if our leaders were able to ignore an attack on an American vessel, the Liberty, almost 60 years ago, clearly, this is not a normal relationship between the United States and Israel. What country ignores an attack on its own navy?

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Tucker, in 2005, Stephen Rosen, who was then a senior official with the American-Israeli Political Affairs Committee, was dying with Jeffrey Goldberg. At that time, he was with The New Yorker magazine, I believe he's with Atlantic magazine now. He said to Jeffrey, you see this napkin, in 24 hours, I can have the signature of 70 senators on this napkin. Does that tell you something about who runs America?

• 57:39Speaker 01

  How does that make you feel as someone who was wounded in the service of the US military, in the service of the United States?

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Disgusting.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Why are you thinking about this now?

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I have to hand it to Thomas Massey.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  His political career was over. The president and his political affairs supporters literally threw millions of dollars at Thomas Massey's

• 58:14Speaker 02

  primary campaign and got him pitched off the ballot. And Congressman Massey stuck his neck out by speaking publicly from the floor of the United States Congress. There were roughly 15, perhaps 17 of us survivors that were there, family members, sitting in the gallery when he gave his five-plus-minute speech on the USS Liberty urging the Congress to take action. Article 1, Section 8, U.S. Constitution, to

• 58:52Speaker 02

  this is not exact wording, investigate

• 58:57Speaker 02

  acts of piracy on the high seas and offenses against the law of nations. And Congress has ignored that for the past 59 years. Now here, Thomas Massey sticks his neck out.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  The gentleman took us all to lunch afterwards at the Bull Feather Restaurant there in Washington. I think that name is rather ironic. Bullshit Bull Feathers.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Treated us to lunch, personally met each one of us. While we were there, that day's Speaker Pro Tem of the Congress, Darrell Issa, came in, personally shook hands with every crew member, introduced himself around, made a few jokes about that jarhead that was of order.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Another congressman also came in, Congressman McGuire, same thing, introduced themselves around.

• 59:56Speaker 02

  It left me with a wonderful feeling.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Perhaps something can be done after 59 years to wake Congress up

• 1:00:06Speaker 02

  to their obligation to humanity, to do the right thing.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  What would you like to see Congress do?

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  An open investigation.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  While some of us are still alive to testify,

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  let all the dirty laundry hang out there.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  If there are charges to be charged, bring them forward. Just air it out and let the American people, the world's public at large, make up their own

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  when they see the facts laid bare. It's the same thing with the Epstein files, hiding them.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  Let it hang out. Let us all look at it. If someone's guilty, fine, charge them.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Sure, there's going to be some big-time names. Sure, there's going to be some billionaires involved. I'm just a little guy. I'm not even a millionaire. Fine, come get me.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Do you think that'll happen?

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  I don't know. Don't care.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Well, I'm grateful you did this interview, Mr. Lockwood, and

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  It's an honor for me.