Blackmail, Bribes, and Fear: Netanyahu Claims He Controls Donald Trump and America. Tucker Responds.

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  There's a lot going on in the world right now, but if you're on social media, and of course you are, because it's really America's only remaining news source, you know there's only one story going on, and it's Israel. Everyone online is arguing about Israel. And really, they fall into one of two camps, generally speaking. So probably the more aggressive side are the deranged Taliban-level ethno-narcissists who are telling you that any criticism of the secular government of Israel is tantamount to blood libel against the Jewish people. And if you think that maybe it was not a great idea to arm Joseph Stalin, the greatest murderer in history, then you're a Holocaust denier! Shut up! And then on the other side, a group every bit as obsessed with Jews, the people who hate Jews,

• 1:14Tucker Carlson?

  who are telling you that anyone who's Jewish is bad by virtue of being Jewish. It's a blood thing. Two things are interesting. One, there are very few kind of conventional Christian voices saying, wait a second, this is a secular government, another country, and it has probably nothing to do with my religion or anybody's religion. And we should never judge people on the basis of their immutable qualities because guilt and virtue are not passed down genetically. But almost no one is saying that. So you really have the ethno-narcissists and the antisemites, and they're at war with each other. That's the online picture. What's even more interesting and maybe even more distressing is that in the US government,

• 1:59Tucker Carlson?

  the conversation, while much more muted, is a mirror of this in that a lot of the conversation is about Israel. Israel, a tiny country in the Middle East, not critical to our national security, by the way, but the conversation, the bandwidth, is consumed by questions of Israel. So wherever you stand on Israel, whether you're on one of the two sides just described or neither one of them, you know in your gut that this is bad. If a country like ours, supposedly the most powerful in the world, is devoting all of its time internally to conversations about Israel, it's probably not going in a good direction. There's probably a lot being neglected in favor of this very specific boutique conversation about this tiny little country.

• 2:44Tucker Carlson?

  It's just not good for anybody, including Israel, by the way. So what's the antidote to this? How do you fix it? Here are four things you can do to make the conversation about Israel and the relationship with Israel a lot healthier than it currently is. Here are the four. The first is get some global perspective on what we're talking about. The United States is a nation of 350 million people. It has some of the deepest natural resources in the world. That would include energy and water, agricultural products. The United States, however it's managed, is a powerhouse globally and always will be because its strength is inherent.

• 3:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's a huge decisive country in the scope of world history. The United States makes things happen. Israel, is not an insult, merely an observation, by contrast, is a tiny and inherently insignificant country, at least geopolitically, in that it has only nine million people and no natural resources, no meaningful natural resources. So it is insignificant. It is also physically tiny. It's about the size of New Jersey, famously, but it has a much smaller GDP than New Jersey. It is a much smaller economy than the state of New Jersey. It's an economy about the size of the state of Arizona and almost one-half the economy of the state of Massachusetts or Illinois. It just doesn't really matter, actually.

• 4:09Tucker Carlson?

  If you're looking at a map and thinking through, you know, where does power politics go, Israel's not even on the list. Again... It's tiny. It's got the population of Burundi. It's got a smaller population than Belgium. Like, what is this, anyway? And yet, despite its objective insignificance, it is the focus of the conversation, but it's also the focus of the spending. So, right now, as we speak, tonight, there are two THAAD missile batteries in Israel. That's one quarter of the world's total supply of THAAD missile batteries. The THAAD missile battery is an American-made, very high-tech missile battery that takes incoming missiles out of the sky.

• 4:52Tucker Carlson?

  And one quarter of the world's entire supply of these is in Israel right now, manned by US troops, by Americans. In uniform or not, they are American military personnel, and they are manning these batteries to protect Israel. And that shouldn't surprise you, because since October 7, 2023, which is a little less than two years ago, the United States has spent at minimum $30 billion defending Israel. Huge. And for some perspective, the entire Israeli military budget before October 7 was about $25 billion. So the United States has put at least $30 billion into defending Israel in less than two years.

• 5:35Tucker Carlson?

  Over the course of its existence, a little less than 80 years, the United States has put $300 billion, at least, those are just the on-books numbers, into supporting Israel. $300 billion. Israel is by far, no one comes close, the largest recipient of US aid over time, and currently. So anyone who says, "Oh, it's just a drop in the bucket, it's totally insignificant", is lying, or doesn't know the numbers. By the way, number two is Egypt, so why are we spending so much money on Egypt? Well, we're doing it at the request of Israel. So you could probably add that to the tally. It's not an attack, it's merely perspective. We are spending our time, our money, and we're taking enormous risks on behalf of a country that geopolitically is not significant at all.

• 6:21Tucker Carlson?

  The interesting thing is, most Americans have no idea that this is true. They don't know how disproportionate our attention to Israel and our spending on Israel is relative to the rest of the world. And if you want some sense of how disproportionate, India and China combined, another which is a strong ally at the moment, combined represent more than a third of the entire world's population. Both are rivals economically, both are rivals militarily, at least potentially. And our relationship with them has gotten worse, or at the very least languished because of our relationship with Israel, because of the bandwidth consumed by tending to it, and also because of some of the inevitable conflicts that have arisen because of our

• 7:04Tucker Carlson?

  support for Israel, which is engaged in an extremely controversial, which is to say, hated war in Gaza, which is not even really a war. It's a massive displacement of people and killing on a grand scale of unarmed people, of unarmed combatants, of civilians, of women and children. And the world sees this, and the world rejects it, and the world hates it. And so Israel's really last remaining ally of size, other than the UK, is the United States. And so there's a huge cost to this. But again, most Americans have no perspective on just how disproportionate our commitment is, because they marinate in lies about this relationship, mostly from our political class, also from the media, but really, if you were to lay the blame on one group in

• 7:49Tucker Carlson?

  the United States, it's our elected leaders who continuously lie to us about the nature of this relationship, its significance, and they do it generationally. They've been doing it for many decades. Here, and this is just one example, but the most fun to watch, this is Nikki Haley at the Republican Presidential Primary Debate 2023, describing the United States' relationship with the state of Israel. Watch.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Last thing we need to do is to tell Israel what to do. The only thing we should be doing is supporting them and eliminating Hamas. It is not that Israel needs America. America needs Israel.

• 8:28Tucker Carlson?

  It is not that Israel needs the United States. The United States needs Israel. How could that possibly be true? It is in no sense true. In fact, it's one of those lies that's not three degrees off the truth. It is a complete inversion of the truth. And the truth, which is obvious to anyone who looks at the numbers or is paying any attention at all, is that Israel could not survive without the United States. That's not an argument for pulling all aid to Israel. It's just an acknowledgement of the physical reality. Israel fights its wars with American backing, with the guarantee, the implied defense guarantee that we have provided for so many years, since at least 1973, 50 years.

• 9:09Tucker Carlson?

  And its social services are made possible, which are quite generous, made possible by American subsidies. In other words, every dollar that goes to the Israeli military from the United States is a dollar that the nation of Israel can spend on its own people. And so there is no world in which America needs Israel more than Israel needs the United States. And of course, Nikki Haley was never asked to explain how exactly that could be true. What are you talking about, Governor Haley? Not one person asked her that question. And no one asked her that question because anyone in whose mind that question appeared would have paused for fear of being attacked as an anti-Semite for asking a question about geopolitics.

• 9:54Tucker Carlson?

  That has been the state of play in the United States for my entire life, over 50 years. Politicians make nonsensical statements. Nobody wants to even ask a follow-up question for fear of being attacked. It is a state of perpetual intimidation. Everybody's afraid of Israel. Afraid of the topic, afraid, in some cases, of the state itself. We have not had an honest conversation about this, ever. Certainly not in my lifetime. And that suits the Israelis just fine. And if you're wondering why there's an awful lot of lunatic, anti-Semitic comment about Israel online, you have to wonder, how much of that is organic? Some of it, of course, there are always haters.

• 10:37Tucker Carlson?

  But how much of it is not organic at all? How much of that, the lunatic, "all Jews are evil",

• 10:46Tucker Carlson?

  How much of that is being ginned up on purpose to make legitimate questions about the US government's relationship with the government of Israel seem like crackpot stuff, like hate, like David Duke level lunacy? Probably some, because it serves their interests. Now, that is a criticism of the state of Israel and its incredibly sophisticated propaganda campaign, which, again, the rest of us have been marinating in for a long time. But the true villain here, I would argue, is not the state of Israel, the Jews. It's the United States. It's our leaders who are putting up with this.

• 11:26Tucker Carlson?

  Israel is a small country with very limited resources, and it is doing its best to serve its own interests. You'd think every country would act that way, and most do. But there are some that don't, and ours would top that list. And so the true shame here, the actual villain in this story, is the leadership of the United States that is putting up with serial humiliation for decades. And for what reason? So if there's someone to be mad at, it's our leaders. And that leads to the second thing that we can do to fix this truly unhealthy relationship, this poisonous relationship, which is getting worse, by the way. It's breaking our society into pieces. It's truly hurting the Trump administration.

• 12:10Tucker Carlson?

  The second thing we can do, after getting global perspective on what we're actually talking about here, a tiny country that is, in the deepest sense, insignificant to the United States, the second thing we can do is get some freaking self-respect and stop being ordered around by a client state. That's not good for us, it's not good for them, it's not good for anybody. It's like being screamed at by your children. No normal parent would allow that, because it's totally destructive. It's not good for you, and it's not good for the child. And that is exactly the relationship that we have with the state of Israel. In fact, not in theory, in fact, it is a huge country and a tiny country. The huge country supports the tiny country, and that's a pretty nice thing to do.

• 12:53Tucker Carlson?

  Whether it's wise or not is a whole separate conversation. But if you're gonna have that relationship apparent to a child, you cannot be yelled at, humiliated, spied upon, bossed around by the child, by the person in the inherently subordinate position. You can't do that. And you can't be shamed into ignoring things that are quite clearly not the behavior of a subordinate ally to a big brother ally. For example, spying on the country that makes your economy and your defense possible, which the Israelis have been doing for generations. That's a fact. One of them very famously was caught, Jonathan Pollard, who's an American citizen, taking real secrets, like actual military secrets, and sending them to Israel, which promptly sent a bunch of them to the Soviet Union,

• 13:37Tucker Carlson?

  which was our arch-rival, our foe at the time. And that happened, and he went to prison. And then somehow he got out of prison and went to Israel, where he continues to denounce the United States. And anyone who says anything about it is attacked. "Oh, you're an anti-Semite." It's nothing to do with antisemitism. That's insulting. Why would we ever put up with that? Why would we put up with the attack on the USS Liberty that everyone's so afraid to talk about, clearly targeted on purpose by a country we're supporting, Israel? And it's somehow shameful to say that? Why? Why is it shameful to say that? Who knows why it's shameful to say that? But it shouldn't be. And until we have some self-respect, not anger or hate, but just dignity, it will continue.

• 14:19Tucker Carlson?

  In June, for example, during the 12-day war, such as it was with Iran, the US and Israel versus Iran, bombing on all sides. During that short conflict, IDF officers in the Pentagon, foreign military officers in the Pentagon, and by the way, they're not the only foreign military officers in the Pentagon, to be clear. There are NATO officers, they're from other countries, British. But there are a bunch of Israeli Defense Force officers in the Pentagon that week. And during that week, ask anyone who works at the Pentagon, they enraged American Pentagon staff by just barging into meetings,

• 15:02Tucker Carlson?

  giving orders, making demands. And nobody did anything about it. How can a foreign military officer barge into military headquarters, even if invited, but barge into a meeting and start demanding, "We want this, we want that, you need to get on this"? Huh?

• 15:19Tucker Carlson?

  The more you allow that kind of deeply unhealthy behavior, the more you're going to get. And that's exactly what has happened. Because of the weakness of our leaders, we have incited predators in a foreign country to take advantage of us. "Oh, that's such an anti-Israel thing." It's not anti-Israel at all. It's a demand that the people whose job it is, whose sacred duty it is to defend and represent us, our leaders, both at the Pentagon and all throughout the US government, that they do that, that they stand up and defend us against all potential threats, against all foreign countries to the extent they need to, and that they do not prostrate themselves before a foreign nation. That's just basic.

• 16:04Tucker Carlson?

  Why have a government? Especially a strong government, if it's taking orders from another weaker government? And that is the state of play. And it has been for a very long time. And they're not even pretending, to such an extent that the Prime Minister of Israel goes on television to openly participate and meddle in internal American politics, taking sides, attacking people, Americans, you wouldn't think it would be his business, he's not an American leader, he's not even an American citizen, going on television to attack Americans

• 16:43Tucker Carlson?

  because they're not fully on board with sending billions more to a country of 9 million people? And in case you think that's an overstatement, here is the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, commenting on American politics.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  We talked about the woke right. And he said, "I call it the woke Reich." That's a brilliant... The woke Reich. Because these people, you know, they're not any different from the woke left. I mean, they're insane. But they're actually meeting on some of the things. We have to fight back. How do we fight back? Our influencers. I think you should also talk to them, if you have a chance, to that community, they're very important. And secondly, we're going to have to use the tools of battle. And the most important ones are the social media. And the most important purchase that is going on right now is class.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Tik Tok, Tik Tok, number one, number one. And I hope it goes through because it's, it can be consequential. And the other one, what's the other one that's most important? X. X. Exactly. Very good. And, you know, so we have to talk to Elon. He's not an enemy. He's a friend. We should talk to him. Now, if we can get those two things, we get a lot. And I could go on and other things, but that's not the point right now. We have to fight the fight.

• 18:14Tucker Carlson?

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• 19:41Tucker Carlson?

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• 20:26Tucker Carlson?

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• 21:09Speaker 04

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• 22:09Speaker 03

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• 23:02Tucker Carlson?

  Imagine this is a foreign leader bragging about how he's censoring Americans. Again, this guy runs a country of nine million people that's totally dependent on our tax dollars to exist. And here he is on camera and he's a sophisticated guy. Of course he knows that he's being filmed saying, anyone who opposes me in the United States, who opposes more aid to Israel or opposes getting sucked into war with Iran, which does not serve American interest. That person is not simply mistaken or wrong. I'm not going to bother to explain why that person is wrong. That person is a Nazi, part of the woke Reich, a Nazi.

• 23:40Tucker Carlson?

  And the only way to fix it is by preventing Americans in the last country on earth with guaranteed freedom of speech, prevent Americans from hearing the other side. And so we push Congress to force a TikTok sale, which is true by the way. And when that happened and various members of Congress like, no, really? It's about China. There were people online and said, no, I think it's really about Israel. You, you kind of wish it was about China. Here he is just admitting, no, no, we pushed the US Congress to censor in the United States, to commit censorship in the United States because we think it's bad for us. And we need to talk to Elon. The only reason we have free speech in the United States right now is because of Elon Musk.

• 24:24Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, a naturalized American, a foreigner who looked at the United States and said, what's great about that country? People can say what they believe because they're not slaves, they're not subjects of the state, they're citizens of a nation that they own.

• 24:39Tucker Carlson?

  Free speech is central to the entire idea of America. In fact, it's really the only thing that sets us apart from any other country on earth. It's not our market economy, it's freedom of speech. And here's this guy, a foreign head of state, who, let me restate, is totally dependent on our tax dollars to exist, is saying Americans don't have that right, and he's gonna do some kind of secret pressure campaign on Elon Musk to censor X because it bothers Israel? You know, that's the point at which you just say, no, absolutely not, that is not allowed. But, since no one has said that, it has continued, and that's why, when you go on social media,

• 25:19Tucker Carlson?

  you see person after person taking that guy's line, that guy's line, repeating foreign government talking points on social media as Americans. "Oh, you're, you can't say that." It's true, it's 100% true. And it's also totally counterproductive, by the way. This is not a sophisticated propaganda campaign. This is a brutal and brutish propaganda campaign, where anyone who disagrees with anything is immediately slandered and smeared. Megyn Kelly, who's gotta be the single most moderate person on the question of Israel,

• 26:01Tucker Carlson?

  who's said 100 times, and means it, by the way, "I like Israel, I'm not against Israel." You know, "But maybe it's not a great idea to get sucked into one of their wars, we've done that, let's not do it again." "Bruh, Nazi!" Immediately called her an anti-Semite, and won't stop. Meanwhile, the actual anti-Semites, and there certainly are some, online, never get criticized by Bibi or anyone else in his orbit. That's kind of interesting, isn't it? I wonder why that is, when you have actual anti-Semites, you know, doing videos making fun of Auschwitz, but they get a pass? Hmm, maybe things are not quite as they seem. But, normal people, who harbor no hate toward anyone, or try not to,

• 26:45Tucker Carlson?

  are immediately slandered, in a way that makes it, in some cases, hard for them to have jobs, if they deviate even a little bit. So what's the effect of this? Not that it's up to me to tell Israel how to run its propaganda campaigns, but the effect, just noticing, is that it turns allies into enemies. You can agree on 98% of things, but if you think maybe it was a bad idea to bomb Doha, Qatar, the site of the largest military base in the Middle East which exists to protect Israel, if you think it was a bad idea for the Israeli government to bomb Doha, then you're a, what, a Nazi? Just in point of fact, by the way, Hamas was originally in Qatar

• 27:29Tucker Carlson?

  because the Israeli government asked them to accept Hamas. That airbase exists to protect Israel, by the way. That was such a reckless and demented move, that Mossad, Mossad, in Israel, opposed it and wouldn't participate in it, because they thought it was too reckless. So to say that there is, you know, quite a bit of latitude for debate in Israel is an understatement. Mossad refused to participate in that. But, as an American, on social media, if you're like, "I think it's a little crazy that our ally is bombing another one of our allies without even telling us, and then lying and pretending that they had permission from the president to do this," which they did not, if you say that, you're a Nazi, you're part of the woke Reich?

• 28:13Tucker Carlson?

  This can't continue. It's too crazy. It's counterproductive for them, and it's deeply destructive of our political conversation, and of our country itself. Now, the good news is, that the humiliation, which has gone... I mean, just to give you one more example of the humiliation, which is almost beyond belief. "So, Israel's our greatest ally, we should never ask anything of them." Of course, you heard Nikki Haley, you hear all of them saying exactly the same thing, protecting Israel's the most important thing, they're our only real ally. If they're our only real ally, why does Israel have a long history of transferring military technology, including American military technology, to China? To China? Most people have no idea that's true. It is true. Why is China running the port of Haifa, Israel's biggest port? Really, if they're such a close ally?

• 28:58Tucker Carlson?

  And of course, the answer is because from Israel's perspective, we're not a close ally. We're a country that has been willing to help them. But when you only have nine million people in a limited defense budget, you know, you take help where you can get it. So the loyalty is not requited. It's one way. And I think the good news is that the government of Israel, in particular, the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has pushed it too far. And he did that in part by running around telling people what he thought was true, apparently, "I control Donald Trump. I control the United States Congress. I control the United States." He said that to political allies and opponents in his country. He said it to foreign heads of state. Fact.

• 29:43Tucker Carlson?

  "I control these people. Don't you worry." And by the way, if you kick me out of office, the next guy probably won't have the level of control that I have. He's made that case openly, verbally. He said it out loud. And that was too much for our president. And so in one of the great moments, it was just, it was a cool shower on a hot day, President Trump pushed back, not directly, but you can watch this clip and see that he's had enough. Here is President Trump the other day asked about Israel's plans to annex the West Bank. Watch.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Did you promise leaders this week that you would not allow Israel to annex the West Bank? Is that something that you... I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank. No, I will not allow it. It's not going to happen. Did you speak with Netanyahu about this? Yeah, but I'm not going to allow it, whether I spoke to him or not. I did. But I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank. There's been enough. It's time to stop.

• 30:40Tucker Carlson?

  It's been enough. I will not allow it. He's not just talking about the West Bank there, obviously. These are political people. They understand when your poll numbers fall dramatically, particularly among the young men who helped make you president, you have to ask, "Why is that?" And it's about this issue, because it's too humiliating. And people who don't want to see their government bossed around by a tiny foreign power are not haters. They don't hate any ethnic group. They just don't want to be humiliated. And by the way, why should they be humiliated? That's the core problem right there. That's why Donald Trump has lost support over this Israel question, and he knows that. And he's pushing back, and there's just no question

• 31:23Tucker Carlson?

  from that clip whatsoever. So the third thing I think that would be very helpful to restore health and balance the relationship between the United States and Israel is restore the concept of citizenship in the United States. If you're an American citizen, it means something. The first thing it means is equality. You are equal to every other citizen. There's no hierarchy of citizenship. All citizens are equal. Each gets one vote. Each gets justice before the law. That's the promise of the United States, and each gets to say exactly what he thinks. Period. Restore the value of citizenship. And the very first thing you would do if you cared about that, and you should, because the country can't continue without it, after you expelled everyone who's not a citizen from the country, which should happen immediately, they should be deported immediately for our own survival.

• 32:08Tucker Carlson?

  But after doing that, the first thing you would do is not allow dual citizenship. Why would you allow that? You're a citizen of two countries? Can you really serve two masters simultaneously? By the way, it's not just Israelis who have dual citizenship. Every nationality has dual citizenship in this country. It's not just Israel. And it shouldn't be allowed for a single moment. What is that? Whose side are you on? Don't accuse me of dual loyalty. Well, you're a dual citizen, whether it's Argentina, or Mali, or Israel. Not allowed. And moreover, you are not allowed to serve in a foreign military without losing your American citizenship. You're fighting for another country? How can that be allowed? How can you retain your citizenship? By the way, why aren't you serving an armed military?

• 32:50Tucker Carlson?

  Every country has a different perspective on the world, and that grows from a whole bunch of different things. Their history, their language, their size, their resources. But each country is different, and each country has a different set of priorities. And if you're fighting in a military for a country, you are not serving America's priorities. You're taking up arms on behalf of foreign power. You're done. This would seem to be obvious. Many Americans have fought in Israel, in Gaza. Many Americans have fought in Ukraine, by the way, and a lot of other countries, for foreign militaries. Lose your citizenship immediately. Of course. Obviously. It's amazing that even exists. And AIPAC has to register under FAIR, the Foreign Agent Registration Act of the 1930s. Of course, it's a foreign

• 33:32Tucker Carlson?

  lobby. There are a million of them. But it's only AIPAC that doesn't register.

• 33:38Tucker Carlson?

  And it's only AIPAC that is somehow above criticism. It's a foreign lobby that is acting on behalf of a foreign government and its interests. Again, it's one of many, but it's the only one that doesn't have to register. And of course, it should register immediately. You should know who is giving money to your politicians. You should know who is influencing them. There should be a record of that, as there is with any other nation, any other lobby of a foreign power. And only AIPAC is exempt. What is the effect of that? It makes everyone paranoid, doesn't make people like Israel more. When a topic cannot be spoken about, and when anyone who raises it is called a Nazi, the woke Reich, or dismissed as a Holocaust denier, anti-Semite, or whatever, slandered in some way like that, it doesn't make the problem go away.

• 34:23Tucker Carlson?

  It festers, and people go crazy and get angry and become resentful. And all that, there's no reason to conduct any business like that in secrecy. It doesn't make things better at all. It doesn't make the person doing it stronger, it makes him weaker, actually, in the end. And the last thing that I think we need to do to restore balance between the relationship between the United States and Israel, and to restore some sanity to the public conversation on this topic, is to get our theology right. And this is not a message aimed at Israelis or Jews, this is a message aimed at Christians, who are the largest group of Israel supporters in the United States. And their view of Israel is colored not just by sentimental attachment, which is fine,

• 35:08Tucker Carlson?

  or trips to Israel, great, no problem, but by a Christian heresy, the oldest of the Christian heresies, which is that God somehow prefers some people based on their DNA. And of course, the whole point of Christianity is that that is no longer true, that there is no chosen people. The chosen people are people who choose Jesus. That is the Christian message right there. It's not an anti-Semitic message, by the way. It's the Christian message, it's the core Christian message. And yet, there are many, many self-described representatives of the Christian faith, the world's largest, who are daily sending a different message. And we should be very clear, whatever this is, it's not Christianity, it is heresy.

• 35:53Tucker Carlson?

  And among the many examples we could pick, we're gonna go, because we couldn't control ourselves, with Lindsey Graham, watch.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  To people in my party, I'm tired of this crap. Israel is our friend. They're the most reliable friend we have in the Mideast. They're a democracy, surrounded by people who would cut their throats if they could. This is not a hard choice, if you're in America. It's not a hard choice if you're Christian. A word of warning, if America pulls the plug on Israel, God will pull the plug on us.

• 36:30Tucker Carlson?

  God will kill you if you don't support Bibi Netanyahu. That's what he's saying. And there are cheers, unfortunately, cheers when he said that God will kill you, he will pull the plug on you, like a quadriplegic in intensive care, you're gonna flatline unless you support the secular abortion-on-demand government of Israel. That's the Christian perspective, really. That God loves some people more because of their DNA? That is not the Christian message. That's the opposite of the Christian message. The Christian message is universal. That's the whole point of it. The chosen people in Christianity are those who choose Jesus. The entire New Testament is that story. And anyone who says otherwise has not read it, or is lying.

• 37:14Tucker Carlson?

  God does not prefer you because of your DNA, or anyone else because of their DNA, period. So the fact that people can stand up in the United States in 2025 and say something like that, and by the way, not even make the case, just invoke the power of God as a weapon, he will kill you, he'll pull the plug on your country, unless you go along with this. We need more war, listen to yourself. And it's not just Lindsey Graham, it's the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. It's a lot of people, some of whom are very nice people. People have dinner with them, they seem perfectly normal. But this is a heresy and it's deranged. And you know it's deranged because it is a justification for killing the innocent.

• 37:57Tucker Carlson?

  And in Christianity, if there's one thing that's crystal clear, it's that Christians cannot abide the killing of the innocent. People who have done nothing wrong cannot be killed. That's a sin, you are not allowed to do that, period. And if you find anyone leveraging the message of Jesus to justify the killing of innocents, that person is committing heresy. SimpliSafe stops crime before it happens, which is the way to stop it. Most security systems work backwards. They react to a break-in, they alert the authorities, "What's the emergency in your house?" Woo, you don't want someone in your house in the first place. You want to deter that, that's why you get SimpliSafe. AI-powered cameras detect threats while they're still outside your home,

• 38:40Tucker Carlson?

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• 39:19Tucker Carlson?

  And right now, you can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com/tucker. SimpliSafe, S-I-M-P-L-I, safe.com/tucker. There is no safe like SimpliSafe. Well, here's something we are really excited about. Megyn Kelly, our longtime friend and actually an amazing person, not joking, going on a live tour and has invited us to join. And obviously, we said yes, instantly flattered. The thought of turning her down did not even cross our minds. Whoever Megyn Kelly is, we will be there. It's no secret that Speech is under attack and she is completely unafraid and determined to exercise it. The assassination of Charlie Kirk made that very, very clear. And that's why this is more important than ever. There are forces, dark forces committed to silencing voices they can't control.

• 40:04Tucker Carlson?

  They have done it. They'll do anything to make you shut up. It's the most terrifying kind of censorship imaginable. It's murder. But you can't censor a live event and you will not censor Megyn Kelly. She will be live on stage talking about the issues that matter and saying out loud the things we're told you can't say or think tough were Americans. Don't miss it. Visit megynkelly.com to get tickets before they sell out.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 40:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't got this. You need NyQuil Intense Flu. Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best leave with a flu medicine. You do got this. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 41:11Tucker Carlson?

  And we hope to see you there. So those are the four things I think that we probably should do right away to restore some balance and health, reduce the craziness in the relationship and the conversation about Israel. But now for an update on where exactly things are in a complex and dynamic moment globally with regard to Israel. Our old friend, Mr. Sacks is here. Oh, Jeff, thank you so much. Thank you, Tucker, and thank you for really whatever.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Remarkable statement you just made and how many important things you said.

• 41:49Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's it's just bad and it doesn't need to be bad and I just I think this is one place where I do agree with the neocons, some of whom are, you know, they are ethno narcissists, a lot of them, but they're right when they say if if the national conversation is all about Jews and people are all met, like, that's just not good for anybody. I don't think that's good. We need to deescalate and pull back. We need to deracialize this right away, right away, and make it sane. And otherwise, what's gonna happen? Anyway, enough lecture for me.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  No, no, no, but it's a it's an important point because the whole issue about Israel is not about Jews, by the way.

• 42:27Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  The Jews in the United States are completely divided on this issue as are non-Jews. This is not about Jews. This is about a state and what it's doing right now. It's history and American interest. And I think you said that all extremely clearly.

• 42:46Tucker Carlson?

  So do you think there's been a lot of talk today about another war with Iran? Do you think that that's coming?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  I think it's very likely because Netanyahu is absolutely intent, and he has been intent for nearly 30 years. It's nearly 30 years since he first became prime minister in 1996 in dragging the United States into a prolonged war with Iran. And he dragged the United States, and it's a shame that the United States government went along with it, but he dragged the United States into a war with Iran just recently, and it's extremely dangerous. And of course, he wants to do it again. It's been part of Netanyahu's policy to pull the

• 43:41Speaker 03

  United States into repeated wars. This is why.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  This whole relationship is so completely dysfunctional. Netanyahu, back in 1996, with American political advisers,

• 43:59Speaker 03

  actually came up with a document called Clean Break. Clean Break is a very strange but very clear statement of what has trapped the United States for nearly 30 years. Clean Break says, "Well, Israel's never going to compromise with its Palestinian-Arab population in its midst and in the Palestinian lands. It's going to control all of those lands and it's going to control or expel or kill or ethnically cleanse the Palestinian population.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  And that's going to create unrest and it's going to create a militant reaction. And then, what Clean Break says is, "Yes, that's going to happen and we will go to war against any other country in the region that supports opposition to Greater Israel." That is, Israel's control over all of Palestine. And there's just one footnote to that. When Netanyahu said, "We will go to war," what he meant was the United States will go to war for us. So Netanyahu has been the great champion

• 45:25Speaker 03

  of pushing America into endless wars for the last three decades. He was the big cheerleader of the Iraq War. People may remember that, or they can refresh their memories. A devastatingly wrong war sold on completely phony pretenses that Netanyahu cheer-led. And one can even go online and find his testimony to Congress in October.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  2002 about how wonderful this war is going to be and how it's gonna lead to a breakout of freedom throughout the Middle East. He's full of it and he's been full of it for nearly 30 years, but he has had many wars in sight that he has actually dragged the United States into. The war in Syria, which goes on and started with Obama in 2011, ordering the or assigning the CIA the task to overthrow the Syrian government was again at Netanyahu's and Israel's behest.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Absolutely extraordinary. The ongoing wars in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq, the recent so-called 12-day war with Iran, which was a disgrace and a great danger. Even the wars in in East Africa, in Sudan, in Somalia, and in Libya were pushed by Netanyahu as needing to that we need to overthrow regimes that support opposition to Israel's control over the Palestinians.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  And in 2011, just to take another case, because Obama did double duty that year, he went to war with Syria in a completely weird way of assigning the CIA the overthrow, but he also launched a war against Libya to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi. This was the Obama-Hillary Clinton teamwork to drag America into more wars. This has its roots in Netanyahu's doctrine, which is we will control all of Palestine.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  This will lead to unrest, it will lead to militancy, it will lead to suffering of the Palestinian people, so what? But it will lead to challenges to Israel, and we will confront those by overthrowing the governments that support. The militancy against Israel's control over Palestine. And the US has played along until today. And I have to say, even though we saw just that tape of President Trump saying that, no, Israel will not annex the West Bank. First of all, don't hold your breath because we've not yet seen

• 48:46Speaker 03

  an American president for 30 years that has resisted Israel. And I am still fearful that Trump is the same. Because frankly, what we have right now, and Netanyahu said so, Israel's involved in seven wars right now. It's disgusting. They're all over the Middle East in war. They're in war in Gaza. They're in war in the West Bank. They're in war in Lebanon. They're in war with Syria. They're in war with Iraq. They're in war with Iran. They're at war with Yemen.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  And so far, the United States has funded, armed, and diplomatically supported all of this. And the United States has absolutely not, and in this government, and it's true of the previous ones as well, not said a word about the state of Palestine, which is absolutely key to peace. There needs to be a state for the Palestinian people alongside a state for the Israelis. This is international law. It's absolutely obvious to almost every country in the whole world.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  But the United States listens to Netanyahu. And by United States, I don't mean the people, because just as you said, the American people are against all of this, by the way, by large majorities. This is not being driven by American public opinion. This is our American political class telling Americans what to believe, not what Americans actually believe. Americans want the United States to recognize the state of Palestine. The United States public opposes what Israel's doing by large majorities. This is the political class. But unfortunately, it includes the White House and it includes the Congress, and it hasn't stopped yet.

• 50:59Speaker 03

  And the situation in the Middle East is explosive, and Netanyahu is working overtime to pull us into yet another war.

• 51:07Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask, you said a moment ago that no American president has ever constrained Israel in a meaningful way. I think George

• 51:17Speaker 03

  In the modern period.

• 51:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, George H. W. Bush kinda tried, and there was talk of an assassination attempt against him, and he lost, of course, after one term. But why do you, why do you think that is? Why is a country of 9 million people able to dictate terms to a country of 350 million people?

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, there's no legitimate reason for that. In other words, there's no intrinsic US interest in any way, whether it's military, or security, or economic, for this to be the case. There's no moral reason for this to be the case. In other words, one could support Israel without supporting Israel's reckless extremism and militarism and all its

• 52:12Tucker Carlson?

  wars. And so there's no reason for the United States government to have given a blank check, actually handed our military and our intelligence over to Israel to tell us what to do. There's no legitimate reason for this. The question why this is the case is, of course, I think to all of us, even no matter how much on the inside we are, or how many decades we've watched this, a bit of a mystery. Yes. And because I've seen this close up for more than 50 years.

• 52:55Tucker Carlson?

  And if you ask me, am I really sure why Netanyahu, who is a absolutely disgusting war monger, who has dragged us into terrible wars, who is committing massive war crimes, why he gets 57 standing ovations in the US Congress? If you ask me in my heart, do I really understand that? Is it the AIPAC lobby, the Israel lobby? Well, partly. I, is it blackmail by Israel? Because there's no doubt a lot of credible claims of Epstein

• 53:40Tucker Carlson?

  and more about blackmail. Is it that? Is it direct bribes? Is it fear of American politicians? Is it the mainstream media, which for a lot of reasons owned by a lot of billionaires that tend to be rather ardent Zionists? Is it the larger Christian Zionist vote base, which is also a real thing?

• 54:15Tucker Carlson?

  To tell you the truth, none of it really adds up. I agree. In full, because this is not in America's interest. It's not in America's interest to be isolated in the world together with a murderous rogue state, which is sad to say what the Israel

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Israeli government has become. It is the most lawless state in the whole world right now. It's committing massive war crimes. It is, as Netanyahu said, a war in seven fronts. If you're at war in seven fronts, that's pretty weird. That shows you don't have diplomacy. You have war as a policy. And of course Netanyahu does have war as a policy. And you know Tucker, I am at the UN a lot. So I am in the UN Security Council a lot. Listening or participating in UN sessions.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  And the UN, the Israeli politicians come and they yell at the whole rest of the world. And they yell at them in the most vulgar, stupid,

• 55:38Speaker 03

  prurile and absolutely imbalanced and irrational way. And then the US representative says, yes, yes, we are with Israel. So if you ask me why this is fundamentally. First, it's disgusting. Second, it is no rational basis. And third, if it is the money, the lobbying, the mass media propaganda, the really strange beliefs of some people. Whatever it is, even all of that, for my mind, doesn't add up.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  Because a president of the United States should be able to figure this out a little bit better. That this is absolutely not. in America's interest and we do not have a military that is to be handed out to another country to do whatever reckless things that country is doing and right now Israel is not only doing reckless things it is committing a genocide and that is not my opinion that is the opinion pervasively of both scholars and specialists in this matter and in Israeli

• 57:05Speaker 03

  human rights organizations in countless observers inside Israel and observers all over the world so the US is actually and I'm sorry to say it complicit in genocide right now a president should be able to figure this out and they don't and so when you ask me this question I can give you a list of answers but somehow it doesn't add up for me because this is not so hard to figure out that we are on a terribly wrong track

• 57:42Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with you completely I've thought about it a lot and you don't have to hate Israel which I don't to ask like why the serial humiliation rituals and no one ever says you know basta ever and and I do think there's people perceive a deep threat well I know that that's true I wonder if the attack on Doha on Qatar and in general the kind of non-stop effort to malign Qatar Qatar is the most important player in US politics it's also deranged it's all projection but I wonder if bombing a close US ally kind of critical US ally in that region Qatar is a critical US ally just to be clear

• 58:27Tucker Carlson?

  I wonder if that was like too much. I wonder if that was the beginning of the end for Bibi.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  I have to say, there's been a lot that should have been the beginning of the end going back 30 years, going back to the Iraq war and even before that. Starving a population in Gaza as Israel is doing right now should have been enough, even without the bombing of Qatar. But, yes, Qatar was an extraordinary event. Israel says, "We don't have to obey any laws anywhere. We will go anywhere. We will murder anyone."

• 59:17Speaker 03

  It's a murder operation, Mossad especially, but also, this was the Israeli military in this case. They... And interestingly, what were they trying to do, according to them in Qatar? They were trying to murder the negotiators of Hamas who were considering a ceasefire proposal. Now, I find it pretty strange that you murder your counterpart negotiators as they're considering a proposal. But this is actually normal behavior of the Israeli government.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  They have done this repeatedly now, that they murder precisely those who are negotiating, and the United States has been party to this. That's really awful and dangerous and absurd. What was that war in Iran about? It was a disgrace. But what it was about was Israel trying to stop a negotiated solution to the

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  Question of Iran's nuclear program. And people should remember that the US bombing of Iran took place a couple of days before what was supposed to be the sixth round of negotiations with Iran that were reportedly progressing productively. There were serious things to be discussed. And Israel typically went in and assassinated as many people as it could

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  that were involved in those negotiations, that were in senior reaches of the Iranian government. And then the United States joined in.

• 1:01:26Tucker Carlson?

  By the United States, I mean President Trump and the military joined in in the midst of a negotiating process. Israel murdered the negotiators of Hezbollah. Israel has repeatedly murdered counterparts who would negotiate. Israel's right murdered its own prime minister, who was trying to negotiate a peace, Yitzhak Rabin. This is the mode of operation of this extremist Israeli government that our politicians support to the hilt.

• 1:02:09Tucker Carlson?

  And they do it knowing that what Israel is propounding is an absolutely extraordinary and deadly policy. And just to put it one more time, what Netanyahu and his coalition represent is a claim that is called Greater Israel, or Eretz Yisrael Hashlemah, which in Hebrew is the Greater Israel. And the claim is

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  That Israel will control all of the lands that were the British Palestine. Britain, after World War One, took imperial control over Palestine. As usual, Britain left a disaster. This is Britain's way in the world. And instead of a Palestinian state for the eight million Palestinian Arabs and an Israeli state for the eight million Israeli Jews, what Netanyahu and his coalition want is that Israel controls all of the land,

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  including, therefore, half the population that are Palestinian Arabs. Of course, they want to expel them. They're very clear about that. They want them out. They want an Arab-free land of Israel. It's unbelievably violent and destructive, what they're doing. And this is what we are defending. So, again, Netanyahu came to the United Nations last week, and he was very clear for any of these defenders of Israel in the United States.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Netanyahu said there will never be a state of Palestine. Now, are we really signing up to that? Because that's signing up to mass war crimes, to genocidal actions, and to perpetual war for the United States. But honestly, until today, President Trump hasn't said anything about that. The whole vast majority of the world says, of course, there needs to be a state of Palestine. Are you kidding? There are eight million Palestinian Arabs. What else is there going to be?

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  The Court of Justice says this, the UN General Assembly says this, the UN Security Council says this, except the United States government, which says, no, we protect Israel in this murderous path that they're on.

• 1:05:10Tucker Carlson?

  It's remarkable, it's nauseating to me and shocking to me that any Christian could support this, especially with the enthusiasm that they do, and I, you know, God is gonna have to judge them, but I just think that's, it's so-

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  It's a little strange, by the way, even when, when, yes, it is a little strange, when Senator Cruz, when you asked him about this, he couldn't even quote the Bible, right, by the way, he, you asked him, and he said, "Well, God says that I will bless those who bless Israel," which is, by the way, not what Genesis says.

• 1:05:54Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  It says, "I will bless those who bless Abraham." This is a little bit different, and he couldn't even quote the passage properly, but it was in that name that he said, "This is why we have to do it." It's like you just heard, or just, we were just listening to Lindsey Graham. They can't even quote this so-called scripture that's telling them what to do. It's so preposterous and sad.

• 1:06:24Tucker Carlson?

  Well, and its effect is to really distort American politics. I thought we agreed during the Russia hysteria of the last administration that it was wrong, and illegal, actually, for a foreign government to control our politics. Like, I thought we all agreed on that. I've always felt that way, no matter what the government, Russia was not controlling our politics, that was the lie there, but the truth was, that's wrong. And now, it seems like our entire national conversation is about this tiny, totally irrelevant little country with one great city, Jerusalem, but geopolitically irrelevant country. And that's at the behest of a foreign government who's openly saying, "You don't agree with us, we're gonna censor you."

• 1:07:08Tucker Carlson?

  How can that stand? How can a foreign leader call for censorship of American citizens? And then all his little satellite groups, the ADL, AIPAC, all of them, all push that, and then the Congress obeys? Like, that seems to me, that's gotta be a red line, no?

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  There are so many big lies in all that is said, day by day, but the biggest big lie in this regard is, as you noted rightly, to say that those who are against Israel are anti-Semites.

• 1:07:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, exactly.

• 1:07:44Speaker 03

  I happen to be Jewish. I'm aghast at what Israel is doing, because Israel is a state. It is, first of all, not a religion, and least of all is it a reflection of 2,000 years of Jewish culture, which is not what Israel is about at all. And to say that it's anti-Semitic to oppose a genocide, or to oppose all of these wars that Israel is provoking, is obviously a big lie. But that is what is propounded. And it's really, um...

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  It's strange to hear this, especially because when one understands the history of Israel and the history of Zionism, which is the political philosophy calling for the state of Israel, people should know, it's a little... It may sound a little strange in our current context. Religious Jews were against Zionism at the start. This was not... This wasn't even a Jewish religious movement at all. This was a a group of basically secular Jews in Eastern Europe.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  And the rabbis of the day told them, no, don't do this. This is a bad idea. This is not what Judaism is. This is just going to create a tremendous amount of trouble. And so this idea that being critical of Israel is somehow being anti-Semitic, which is what is being used as a cudgel against American society right now and against American universities, but pretty much across the board, is not only wrong and absurd, but completely against the true history of these issues.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  And there's a a lot that can be said about it, but one thing that is an illustration of this point. Israel emerged from British imperialism. Actually, the modern Zionism, so called, which was the idea of creating a Jewish state, was a British Christian idea in the 19th century. It did not start as a Jewish idea. It was a British Christian idea. In a Jewish tradition of 2,000 years, Jews were to live anywhere.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  And they were to make their faith anywhere, their local synagogue. They didn't have to be anywhere in particular. There was no land idolatry. There was just a set of religious and ethical tenets. That that was it. And there was no, not only no mass call to have a Jewish state. That was viewed as heretical, a term that you used earlier. In one of the guiding texts of religious Judaism, the Talmud, there is a part called the Three Oaths, which rabbis.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  In the early centuries, AD wrote and compiled. And this part, the Kattubot 111, says, "Don't return to Israel en masse. Don't, because it'll just create trouble. Live peacefully where you are." That's actually a Talmudic injunction that the rabbis followed for a couple thousand years, basically. So this whole idea of the modern state of Israel was actually a Christian idea.

• 1:11:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:11:58Speaker 03

  Specifically, a British Christian idea. And it was an Anglican reverend who kind of gave this idea to Theodore Herzl, who was a secular Jew in Vienna in the last years of the 19th century. Well, just without going into all of the detailed history. In 1917, Britain did a typical British imperial thing. During World War I, it promised Palestine repeatedly to different groups. Britain is nothing but deceitful in its imperial methods.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  So it promised the land of Palestine to the Arabs first in what are called the McMahon Sharif letters. It promised the Middle East to be divided with the French in what's called the Sykes-Picot Treaty. And it then in 1917, excuse me, under lobbying pressure of British and American Zionists, or British Zionists, who said, "Let's bring America into this war," thinking that it would be good, announced in what's called the Balfour Declaration,

• 1:13:25Speaker 03

  that there should be a Jewish homeland in Palestine after World War I. Remember, this was not even British land. This was Ottoman territory. But Britain being the British Empire. Said, we're going to determine the fate of this and announced in the Balfour Declaration that there should be a Jewish homeland.

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  Now, there was one Jew in the British Cabinet in 1917, Edwin Montague. What was that one Jew's reaction to the Balfour Declaration? Which was issued by the Foreign Secretary? It was to oppose strongly, strenuously, the Balfour Declaration. What did Montague say in a famous letter? He said, "Why are you doing this? We don't need a Jewish homeland. Jews are a religion, they're not a nation. They don't need a nation, and if you do this, you make me seem like I'm not British. I am first, British, thank you.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  I happen to be Jewish, but I'm British. And if you say that now, oh no, the Jews are in the state of Palestine, that's where their homeland is, you're gonna make it seem like I'm less British. And this is how many people have felt over time. And I, as an American, completely, totally resent when Netanyahu says, "We're the state of the Jewish people." Nonsense, that's even, it's revolting. I happen to be Jewish, but Israel is not my state, the United States is my state.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  And, and it's revolting to be told otherwise. Who the heck is he to tell me this? Who's the, who the heck is the Israeli government to declare such a thing? Complete nonsense. And so, the history of all of this is completely different from what is thought, and the claim that it is anti-Semitic to be against the ghastly things that Israel is doing. Stopping food shipments into Gaza to starve people. Destroying all of the infrastructure to make Gaza a place of 2 million people, unlivable.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  Murdering more than 60 million people, the significant majority of whom are women and children. And then to be told, "No, you can't say you're against that. That's anti-Semitic." This is a preposterous propaganda, not a reality. It has nothing to do with this in reality. And Zionism is not Judaism. It is a political ideology and the extremist Zionism of Netanyahu and his cronies, Smotrich and Ben Gavir in particular, who are murderous members of this government.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  This is an extremism that is completely disgusting and has nothing whatsoever to do with Jewish beliefs or Jewish ethics.

• 1:16:56Tucker Carlson?

  I think one of the reasons that religious authorities in Europe, at the time of the Balfour Declaration, some of them thought this was a bad idea is because, you know, the point of being in the land of Israel biblically was because the temple was in Jerusalem, on the Temple Mount, right? Where Abraham brought Isaac. And that was the center of the religion until 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the city and the temple. And now, so and then subsequently, of course, the rise of Islam. Al-Aqsa Mosque, third holiest place in Islam, was built on that site. And the foundation is called the Western Wall, the Wailing Wall, that all of our politicians go to. The question of rebuilding the temple is almost never discussed publicly in the United States,

• 1:17:41Tucker Carlson?

  but there is a huge effort, by the way, bankrolled by a lot of Christians, just to be completely clear. In the state of Texas, for example, there's a whole foundation, a number of foundations designed to abet this. But there is this kind of behind-the-scenes push to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, which would require destroying the third holiest place in Islam, the mosque, the Al-Aqsa Mosque. I've talked to a bunch of people about this who think that it's imminent, that it's not crazy to think that that mosque would be blown up in order to make way for the third temple. Do you fear that? If that happens, what happens next?

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Well, the extremism on display in Israel is, as I said, the most lawless in the world today. Israel is the rogue state of the whole world. Israel flagrantly violates every limit. Israel goes to war where it wants to. It murders foreign leaders where and when it wants to. It acts with complete impunity and disdain. And Netanyahu thinks that he controls, and maybe he does, the US government, so that whatever he does, he thinks he can get away with.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  So there's no doubt that there is a third temple movement that is part of this coalition. No doubt that there are people in this government who have absolutely no limit, who talk openly about, well, they've already said, to make Gaza completely uninhabitable and unlivable. That is ethnic cleansing, or genocide, or a combination of the two. Well, such people do not have limits. Would this go well for Israel? No, this would be suicidal.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  But zealotry can be suicidal. And there's a lot of zealotry.

• 1:19:54Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, the word comes from the region, zealots, were suicidal.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  And it comes from, unfortunately, even the ancient history of Israel.

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  Many people then and today did not think it was the greatest idea to rebel against the Roman Empire. The Jews ended up destroying themselves.

• 1:20:26Speaker 03

  They champion a mass suicide in a place called Masada. But you know, to have a belief system where you're championing mass suicide is a little weird. Maybe the behavior wasn't so prudent. Maybe it wasn't so wise to be as completely extremist as you thought. And it's not so wise for Israel to be completely extremist and disdainful of every other place in the world, thinking that the United States has your back, so to speak.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  When in fact, as we said, it's a little strange that the US politicians do every order of Israel up until now. But the American people are fed up with this. Yes. They're disgusted with this. And eventually, in our political system, that tends to move the politics a bit. When you have 70% of Americans saying, "Stop, this is hellish. What Israel is doing is completely terrible." That will eventually even enter the consciousness of our political class.

• 1:21:49Speaker 03

  And so, if you ask me, are there forces in Israel that could do this? Absolutely. And there are those who would do it tomorrow. They're... This is a coalition government that

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  caused Trump to say that annexation is impossible because they were on the verge of essentially annexing the Palestinian lands of the so-called West Bank, the West Bank of Jordan. Completely against international law, completely against UN Security Council resolutions, completely against International Court of Justice, completely against reality because it's millions of people living there that they would have to murder or ethnically cleanse or completely suppress, which apparently they're ready to do for all of them because they say these are all hateful people. And they don't even count...

• 1:22:52Speaker 03

  How many people they're killing, in fact. So, yes, of course, they're ready to do what you said.

• 1:23:00Tucker Carlson?

  One of the costs, apart from the, you know, the cost to the American social fabric, which is profound, the cost to the US Treasury, also profound. It does seem like we're in a moment when the world is completely realigning. I know that you are right in the middle of that and have been your whole life. And so I think you see it a lot more clearly since you're out of the country so often. But the huge population centers and the economic centers of the world, which would be India, China, to some extent Russia, but Indonesia, like huge countries, bigger than the United States, economies growing much faster, they all seem to be kind of aligning against the United States and Israel. Or am I imagining that?

• 1:23:42Speaker 03

  Well, let me just say, with regard to this Israeli genocide and extremism, almost the entire world knows what's happening, sees what's happening, and is against what's happening. In this regard, the only significant state that supports Israel is the United States. So it's essentially two against the world. As I said, I go to the UN a lot and I watch vote after vote. And there have been several votes in the last couple of years

• 1:24:23Speaker 03

  showing that this is the overwhelming view of the world, that Israel needs to end its rogue behavior. It needs to stop the mass murder. It needs to stop the starvation. It needs to re- to to return to its borders, stop the wars all around it, and enable the state of Palestine to exist and to function. And just to give you a few points on this,

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  in several resolutions calling for a state of Palestine or Palestinian political self-determination, there have typically been, out of the 193 UN member states, around 180 saying, of course, Palestine. Palestine has the right of political self determination. And there have typically been eight or at most ten opposed to that, so around a hundred eighty against ten. Who are the ten? The ten, of course, are Israel and the United States. And then Micronesia.

• 1:25:47Speaker 03

  Tiny.

• 1:25:48Tucker Carlson?

  Micro, yeah.

• 1:25:50Speaker 03

  Yes, Micronesia, Nauru, Vanuatu, Palau, Papua New Guinea. If people want to follow them on a map, these are tiny dots in the Pacific Ocean. These are states where the US simply buys the vote. Because there are maybe ten thousand people, twelve thousand people in Nauru, or some count like that. So the US just pays for the vote. Or in the case of Micronesia, they're bound by compact to vote with the United States. And the only countries of any size that have voted any size at all, other than these tiny, tiny dots

• 1:26:36Speaker 03

  with the US and Israel, have been Argentina, Paraguay. And once in a while, a country or two in Europe. That's it. The whole rest of the world is clear about all of this. And when you add up the populations in the countries on these two sides of the vote, and I've done that each time, of course. It's about ninety-five percent of the world population saying, get on with it. Two states, a state of Palestine, a state of Israel. Israel needs to stop its mass murder.

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  It needs to return to the borders of the Fourth of June, nineteen sixty. 57, according to international law, it needs to stop killing or ethnically cleansing or suppressing the Palestinian population. That's about 95%. And 5% is the US and Israel. The US by itself is 4.1% of the world population. Israel's tiny, like you said. Those islands are tiny. You add in Argentina, Paraguay, and a couple of others, and you get maybe to 5% of the world population. We're completely isolated in this.

• 1:27:58Speaker 03

  And people should also understand, there are so many lies that are told, especially as in our own Zionist-dominated mass media that has been recklessly pro Netanyahu and this extremism for a long time. But one of the repeated lies is, there's no one to talk to. There's no way that there could be a peaceful Palestinian state. There's no way that the Arabs could ever be a partner in this. Completely ridiculously the opposite.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Since 2002, there has been what is called the Arab Peace Initiative, which has said that based on two states, there would be normal relations between the Arab countries and Israel. In other words, normalization and peace based on a state of Palestine alongside the state of Israel. And that has been propounded by Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab countries nonstop. It has been supported nonstop by what's called the Organization of Islamic Cooperation,

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  which is the 57 Muslim-majority countries of the world. They say, yes, normalization.

• 1:29:32Speaker 03

  Two states, Israel stops its rampage, Israel stops its delusions of Greater Israel, Israel stops its ethnic cleansing and murder of the Palestinian people, then there can be peace. It's not even hard. This is what the whole world says. Now, the United States has used its muscle, its dollars, its threats, even giving visas, it denied visas to the Palestine Authority to come to the United Nations last week to be part of the debate about this issue.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  It wouldn't even grant visas because the US has been so in lockstep protecting this extremism up until now, that we just are stuck. And everything that's said, that this is anti-Semitic, that there's no one to talk to, that there's no possibility of peace, it's all lies. And now, about 155 countries formally recognize Palestine, including despite the ardent US

• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  pressure of recent months, Britain and France and Australia and a number of other European countries just last week said there has to be a state of Palestine. But until this moment, the Trump administration won't say the obvious truth. Because to this moment, we're still trapped in this hold of this extraordinary...

• 1:31:23Speaker 03

  giveaway of American foreign policy and the whole American military and intelligence operations to in extremis rogue government.

• 1:31:35Tucker Carlson?

  Netanyahu is despised, I think, by a lot of people in the US government. Bragging that you control Donald Trump. It's hard to imagine a more self-destructive thing, but he did that a lot, including recently. So I just wonder how long, since he basically serves at the pleasure of the United States, that country couldn't exist without, not for a week without US backing. How long can Bibi keep his job if he's despised by, you know, the US government? And he's got a fraction, he's got a lot of political problems within Israel and he's

• 1:32:19Tucker Carlson?

  despised by the world, like, how does he keep going?

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  It is absolutely remarkable. I'm sure that he is despised, but he actually, to this day, continues to get his way, including in the last few days. Even when President Trump put forward a plan for Gaza, which was a kind of half a plan, but it had, and it has certain things right, especially stopping the fighting and disarmament

• 1:33:00Speaker 03

  of Hamas, completely right, but it leaves out the most crucial point, which is a state of Palestine to live their lives. That was, of course, Israel's continued and Netanyahu's continued power. And what happened was, the administration, President Trump, briefed Arab leaders at the end of last week on this plan. They said, well, they're, you know, a number of things that are good with this and then Trump met with Netanyahu and Ron Dermer,

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  who is one of these forces of right wing extremism in Israel and he's an American born advisor to Netanyahu, who was Israel's ambassador to the United States for a long time. He knows how to pull strings of American politicians, wherever those strings and however they arise. And they changed the plan as they met and basically rewrote key parts of what Trump had told the Arabs to say, oh, oh, yes, yes. And we should remember that Israel will remain

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  in control over Gaza. They changed what they had actually briefed the leaders and then unilaterally announced something different. And this is just now being disclosed in recent hours. This is so typical. To this day, there has not been an independent US foreign policy. It doesn't exist. And so when you ask how long can Netanyahu last? Well, we're still waiting for the US government to declare its independence, but it hasn't done so yet. It hasn't taken the most basic measures to do so. Could it do so?

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  In a blink of an eye. And when President Trump said in the clip that you showed, I won't allow Israel to annex the West Bank. Of course, he can, he can determine that. So he's completely right to say that. It's both a completely accurate statement. It is the right thing to say what President Trump said, and it's come Completely a hundred percent within his power to say it. Because Israel can't take one step without the US backing. But President Trump should say along with that, that there will be a state of Palestine so there can be peace.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  And that he hasn't said because of all of the forces of Israeli control over the White House and Congress. He hasn't said what virtually all the rest of the world has said. If he says it, there will be peace. He can make peace. He's right when he says, I won't allow it. It sounds like bombast. How can the United States say it won't allow Israel to do something? Well, the fact is, the United States can say it because Israel can't take one step without the US protection. And just as a very practical matter,

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  Palestine, which is recognized by more than 150 countries, applied 14 years ago for membership in the United Nations. And in that process, you make an application to the Secretary General of the UN. Then the Secretary General refers it to a membership committee, which is the UN Security Council acting as a membership committee. Based on the recommendation of that membership committee, then the UN Security Council considers this. So 11 years ago in 2000, 14 years ago in 2011, Palestine made its application. And the Committee of Membership said, yes,

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  Palestine has all of the attributes of statehood. It has a permanent population. That's the Palestinian Arabs. It has boundaries, which are the legal boundaries of the Fourth of June 1967, not the boundaries of Israeli illegal occupation, but the legal boundaries, Fourth of June 1967. And it wants to enter the UN as a UN Charter abiding country. Those are the criteria. So the membership committee said, yes, of course, Palestine qualifies. At the time, what did the US government do?

• 1:37:57Speaker 03

  Under Obama. Well, Obama was under complete Israel control, like all of American presidents are. And so he said to the Palestinians, no, no, don't, don't, don't push so hard. You'll get it. You'll get it very soon. But right now, just ask to be an observer. You don't have to be a member. So the Palestinians listened to the wonderful President of the United States and they took observer status. Of course, there was no follow up. This is the endless charade of Israel and American politics.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  Israel dead set against the state of Palestine, the US doing whatever Israel says. And so it didn't come up again until last year, 2024. And then waiting 13 years and suffering a genocide, thank you, the Palestinians reapplied. Since they already had the decision of the Membership Committee, it went straight to the UN Security Council. What happened in the UN Security Council? This is under Biden. Of course, they vetoed statehood. It was the one veto. So there was a unanimous vote, 12 to nothing against, two abstentions, and the US veto.

• 1:39:23Speaker 03

  And then it went to the General Assembly where I already explained, you had an overwhelming vote of the whole world community for Palestinian statehood, but in the UN, you need a membership, a vote of the UN Security Council where the US has a veto. So just to say, not only can President Trump stop annexation of the West Bank, as he said he intends to do, bravo, he could also make a state of Palestine within about 10 minutes. He would convene the 15 members of the UN Security Council and lift the US veto, and there would be a unanimous vote of the UN Security Council, and Palestine would enter as the 190th.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  94th UN member state and on that basis, Israel would have to withdraw because Israel would then be in a fight with the whole world, which it can't be in. So this is quite straightforward. If we want to make peace, it's absolutely possible. If we want to follow Israel, we are following the path of perpetual war.

• 1:40:36Tucker Carlson?

  Jeffrey Sachs of Columbia University, thank you for taking all this time.

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  Well, it's always great to be with you, Tucker. I appreciate it.

• 1:40:43Tucker Carlson?

  I do. Thanks a lot. I'll see you soon.

• 1:40:46Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:40:50Tucker Carlson?

  We'll be back next Wednesday. Thank you.