Chris Cella: Opioids, Robbing the Mafia, Burning Down the Entourage House, and How God Saved Him

Like so many other Americans, Chris Cella fell out of the middle class and became an opioid addict. Here’s how he came back. (00:00): Introduction (02:00) Cella’s Opioid Addiction (09:00): Gateway Drugs Are a Real Concern (24:57) Burning Down the Entourage House (39:25) What It’s Really Like in Rehab Paid partnerships with: Identity Guard: Get a 30-day free trial and over 60% off when you sign up a https://IdentityGuard.com/Tucker Tecovas: Get 10% off at tecovas.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Tucker Carlson?

  You pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and put something to his throat that said, "Don't move."

• 0:37Tucker Carlson?

  Why give me tense, man? Just telling me this story.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  And he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack, and pimping them out, and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center?

• 0:56Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  It's a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict. But they're making money at every stop.

• 1:03Tucker Carlson?

  This is disgusting.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  And then she pulls out a handgun.

• 1:06Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  And she's like, "What the are you doing in my house? My kids are in there." And I'm like, "Oh, my God, you have kids? If you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom."

• 1:16Tucker Carlson?

  So you insult the lady with a gun pointed at you?

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Because...

• 1:19Tucker Carlson?

  You've got balls, I'll say that.

• 1:41Tucker Carlson?

  Thanks for doing this, Chris. How long were you addicted to opioids?

• 1:45Speaker 02

  So I was addicted to opioids from the age of 15 to 23, kind of on and off, you know, in and out of rehab for those eight years. But yeah.

• 1:53Tucker Carlson?

  15 to 23. How did... Where'd you grow up?

• 1:57Speaker 02

  So I grew up in... I was born in Dallas, grew up in South Orange County, moved there when I was five, kind of bounced around, but all in kind of relatively the same area.

• 2:06Tucker Carlson?

  Southern California.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, Southern California, Orange County. And my sister or my family, you know, addiction kind of just runs in my family. Like my...

• 2:16Tucker Carlson?

  As it does many.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, right? You know, I do believe it is. There is a genetic component to, you know, kind of the addictive personality. You know, absolutely, 100%.

• 2:25Tucker Carlson?

  You think?

• 2:28Tucker Carlson?

  How much alcoholism is there in Israel? How much alcoholism is there in Sweden? You know, it's a big difference.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, my, so, so, growing up, my dad was, he was a general counsel at an oil company in Texas. So, he was traveling a lot and he was also a heavy drinker. He would, he is not the type of person who like needed to wake up and, you know, drink in the morning to function, but he would go on benders, you know, for days, weeks at a time. And, and then my, my mom, she was a long distance runner and she had a diving accident that left her. Basically, she was a victim of Big Pharma's push in the early to mid 90s for OxyContin and then eventually Fentanyl.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  And, you know, this little pathetic pill pushing quack is, you know, giving her just massive amounts of OxyContin. And she didn't like the way, she hated the way it felt. And she, she's like, I don't like this, you know, it's making me like comatose. And the doctor's like, well, you need to keep taking it. And so she, she decided to flush them down the toilet once and, and she went into excruciating withdrawal. And, you know, I'll touch more on withdrawal later, but it's, yeah, she, so she-

• 3:45Tucker Carlson?

  Were your parents married?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, they were married.

• 3:48Tucker Carlson?

  So, your dad's a general counsel of a big company, your mom's a distance runner. So, these are like competent people who've got their act together. These are not, like, this is not the junky profile.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, like, my father, he was, he graduated college at 19. And he went to Columbia Law School. I mean, you know, so-

• 4:07Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:08Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, I'm, I'm sorry, because I think that, I think it's important to set this in a socioeconomic frame.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, because there's, yeah, addiction does not, you know, it does not, it doesn't matter whether you're rich, poor, black, white, whatever, you know, it's indiscriminate, indiscriminatory, so-

• 4:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  So, yeah, my-

• 4:27Tucker Carlson?

  So, this doctor keeps pushing opioids on your mom?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:31Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, to be a distance runner, yeah, I admire that, but it suggests like true self-discipline, a high level of awareness of your body. I mean, who's a distance runner? You know, only people who are very, very into fitness and very, very kind of like battened down people.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:52Tucker Carlson?

  Correct?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, my mom was-

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely, you know, one of the most disciplined people that I've ever met.

• 5:01Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you kind of have to be, yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, the thought of long distance running to me is absolutely, it sounds like torture.

• 5:07Tucker Carlson?

  It is torture, yeah. But it's highly impressive.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it is absolutely. And so, you know, she had these multiple surgeries that only exacerbated the issue and...

• 5:16Tucker Carlson?

  A neck injury?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, a neck injury that she got from, it wasn't related to her long distance running, but it was a diving, diving incident. She hit her neck on the diving board. And so, yeah, this guy's, first she's pushing OxyContin on her. And then he says, okay, well, let's try something different. It might be less, like, you know, less addictive possibly. You know, because fentanyl is brand new. And, you know, might, might make you feel a little bit better to where you can function throughout the day. So he puts her on fentanyl. And fentanyl is so powerful. I know, no, it's, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, you have to laugh, otherwise you'll cry. Because it's like, fentanyl is the most, so powerful that it has to be administered in micrograms.

• 5:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Like, you know, like the 25 micrograms, whereas most drugs are administered in milligrams. Like, that just shows you how potent.

• 6:04Tucker Carlson?

  How many kids does your mom have?

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Uh, three.

• 6:07Tucker Carlson?

  So she's got three kids, she's married to a general counsel of a company, she lives in Southern California, she's a distance runner. All of a sudden, she's on fentanyl.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, no, she, well, she was living in Dallas when she became addicted to the fentanyl. Or addicted to the oxy at least.

• 6:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Uh, and then when we moved to Southern California, we moved to Southern California, my dad started his own practice with his brother. Um, they were both lawyers, so, um, and then, uh, yeah, so my sister, and then my sister, she had a serious, um, issue with bulimia and anorexia from the age of 10 to 28. Uh, like so serious that, you know, her potassium levels were so low that ambulances at our home were like a regular occurrence. And there was multiple times when they said, you know, your daughter might make it, not, might, might not make it, you know, to my father. And so witnessing all of this at a very young age, and again, I'm not trying, again, I just want to like preface,

• 7:05Speaker 02

  this is not an excuse for my actions. Like, I own everything that I did, and all the terrible things that I did. It was not, but I think that the chaos that I had, that I, you know... Basically, I didn't have the necessary things like structure and discipline that I think are so important for everyone, but especially for people with addictive personalities to have that rigid kind of, "I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna make my bed, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that." And so like my parents, I was never sure, I knew my parents loved me. Like my parents, they, I was never short on that, but they were so busy trying to deal with my sister and their own issue. My father, he's been off, he's stopped drinking.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  He just cold turkey stopped drinking for, it's been 25 years now.

• 7:53Tucker Carlson?

  Good man.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he never went to AA or anything like that. And so again, it's addiction or treatment can be as simple as going to therapy. It doesn't have to include rehab and all these different things. But so yeah, my sister.

• 8:12Tucker Carlson?

  And then your mom?

• 8:14Speaker 02

  She, so she eventually switched over to Suboxone from fentanyl, and then she weaned herself off of that. So now she's, yeah, totally, and Suboxone is a miracle drug. I mean, compared to like the alternative, which is methadone, which is so addictive, it gets into your bone marrow. I mean, the withdrawals from that, I've heard, are much worse than your average opiate or even heroin.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Just because it's more drawn out and yeah.

• 8:48Tucker Carlson?

  What a nightmare. So she got better?

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:54Tucker Carlson?

  And your dad got better, but you grew up in an environment where there was a lot of this going on?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so yeah, and lacking that structure, it made me, I think it led to a sense of low self-esteem and the constant need for the approval of others. Like, I look back now and I'm like, You know, why the fuck do I, did I care so much about what other people thought?

• 9:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  And it's, I guess, you know, I can't, you know, but after years of therapy, they've kind of pinpointed as to like, you know, you know, your quote unquote inner child didn't get enough emotional nourishment, so to speak. And so, yeah, you know, I was so constantly trying desperately to fit in. So, you know, when I got into middle school, high school, and you know, I was, you know, honor roll student, um, very, very, you know, I was very, you know, I have a high IQ. I was blessed with that. But, uh, once I got into like college where you actually have to start kind of trying a little bit, like algebra two and, and whatnot, I, I was like, uh, you know, cause I, I'd started hanging out with kids who were smoking weed, drinking and smoking cigarettes.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  So, not that I necessarily wanted to smoke weed, drink and smoke cigarettes, but that's what they were doing. So I wanted, you know, I wanted their approval. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a part of the cool crowd. And so I started drinking, you know, smoking cigarettes and smoking weed. And, uh, so that went on for, you know, I, I quit the wrestling team. I, uh, you know, I pretty much abandoned everything that, you know, was positive, you know, all the positive things that I was doing for my life and just kind of became a stoner. And, um, and, you know, I know a lot of kids who were potheads in high school, you know, that I'm friends with that are more successful than I today. So I'm not, you know, trashing them at all.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  But I mean, then what happened was it progressed to the, cause I was in, you know, and advanced placement classes. So I was in like algebra two as a sophomore where, you know, I was, it was mostly juniors and seniors in the class. And so I started hanging out with the juniors and seniors and they were doing, uh, it's called, uh, oxymorphone or opana, opana. Um, they were, you know, snorting that, taking Xanax pills, stuff like that. And, um, and my stoner buddies.

• 11:12Tucker Carlson?

  Where were they getting the pills?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  So, uh, they were getting them, there was pretty much, we had like one source and he was, uh, a guy that just, uh, lived in, down the street in an apartment complex.

• 11:24Tucker Carlson?

  Um, it's always a guy in an apartment complex, isn't it?

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 11:27Tucker Carlson?

  I've been to those apartment complexes.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  And he, he, um, his grandmother was getting prescription, getting these prescription drugs and just had like a boatload of them. So, you know, he would sell them for 60 bucks a pop. Um, and.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  You know, we would buy them. But eventually, you know, that it becomes too expensive. The pill habit becomes too expensive and that's why so many people transition to heroin. But, you know, even my stoner friends were like, hey, you should like, should try to steer clear of those guys over there. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna take your heaping loads of moral condemnation, stoner. But, but in reality, it's like, when the potheads are telling you that to stay away from these kids, you know they're bad.

• 12:10Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, that's right.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Like, yeah. And so, you know, of course, you know, my, again, that low self-esteem, that desire to fit in, started using pills and opiates in particular. They took away that feeling of that, like, that low self-worth. I felt I was confident. I, you know, I felt great at the beginning, in the beginning, in the very early stages of my addiction. So like the first, you know, two, three months. And I had a job, I was a telemarketer at a golf club selling quote unquote, custom-made clubs. They're literally made in a warehouse underneath the call center by illegals and they're, it was either graphite or steel and they might give you extra grips on the clubs.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  That's the extent of the quote unquote.

• 12:57Tucker Carlson?

  The customization.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, but comparable to the tailor-made R11, yeah, okay, yeah, right.

• 13:03Tucker Carlson?

  So you're selling custom, faux custom-made golf clubs from a call center?

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and, you know, go in the car, do a line of upon them and come back in and it's just like, oh my gosh, you know, I have more confidence and I'm pushing, pushing harder on the sales and things like, and, and, and my sales numbers are going up. So I'm like, why would I stop when this is like, I feel great about myself, I'm performing better at work.

• 13:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  So, you know, I saw it as like, there's like, there's no downside until.

• 13:37Tucker Carlson?

  Totally fair question. And by the way, there have been a lot of, as you know, artists, jazz musicians, you know, who used opioids because they thought it increased their. You know, ability to enhance their performance.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think, you know, it to an extent it can, but that is short-lived. It is not, you know, it's temporary because especially with opiates, they again, they what they did, they literally, they erode your soul and you're eventually going to run out of money and you're going to have to get desperate and so.

• 14:13Tucker Carlson?

  So what happened in your case? You started by doing a line in your car during work.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, and and it kind of just progressed. You know, I was like doing like, you know, one, one pill, one 40 milligram pill every couple of days to two every couple of days to, you know, and just going up and up and the cost was getting too expensive.

• 14:34Tucker Carlson?

  What, why did you use more? You developed a tolerance?

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you, you quickly develop a tolerance and, uh, yeah, and you just need more and more to get to that because you're always chasing that first high. You're never going to get it again, but that's what like, you know, the chasing the dragon. You're always trying to get to that level, but you're never going to get there.

• 14:56Tucker Carlson?

  Right, no, I think it's, I'm, yeah. I mean, I think every childhood weed smoker remembers that first time when you just like burst into laughter hysterically with your buddies and it's like the funnest, funniest thing that's ever happened in your life. And it's like, it's, it is fun. I mean, that's truly fun, but that doesn't ever happen again.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's and, and you, you, you're so desperate to try to get back there and and that kind of, you know, the whole like, you know, addiction makes you insane. It's like, you know, you're never really going to get back there, but you're still trying and, uh, so.

• 15:29Tucker Carlson?

  Addiction makes you insane, that is true.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you know, like the definition of insanity, trying things over and over again, expecting the different result, especially when you get into the point where you're like, you're trying to get sober. And like, okay, yeah, this hasn't worked 15 times, maybe it'll work the 16th. Why? And so, but yeah, so I was, yeah, so it progressed very quickly.

• 15:51Tucker Carlson?

  So you're in like 10th grade at this point?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, 10th grade, yeah. And, um, progressed within, I don't know, maybe like two, three months to buying heroin up in, you know, South Los Angeles and, uh.

• 16:07Tucker Carlson?

  What was that like?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Wild, dude. So, you know, basically, what happened was, we met this guy. I think he was at like the continuation school down the street from our high school.

• 16:20Tucker Carlson?

  What's continuation school?

• 16:22Speaker 02

  It's like, basically, if you get like booted out of, you know, a regular high school, it's kind of like, it's kind of like a way to get a diploma without having to get a GED. But like, it's like, kind of like, it's like a bootleg diploma.

• 16:39Tucker Carlson?

  Nice. So some of the kids who've had a bumpy road are in the continuation school?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I mean, they even like, they like, even though there was like mostly kids under the age of 18, they had a little smoking section at the school. It was hilarious.

• 16:55Tucker Carlson?

  I grew up with that.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, yeah, I mean, I'm still a nicotine fiend. I vape. But I quit smoking cigarettes. I was like, you know, I was, and I was honestly, I was pretty impressed with myself that I was able to do that because that was almost, I don't want to say almost as hard, but very difficult and, you know, trying to get rid of that addiction, you know, compared to my opiate addiction, but you know, just.

• 17:18Tucker Carlson?

  I quit drinking and drugs at 33, and I quit cigarette smoking at 45. So, that tells you.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's hard. It's really a hard addiction to break. And I'm still addicted to nicotine, you know?

• 17:33Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, me too. But I'm enjoying it, I will say, Chris.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 17:39Tucker Carlson?

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• 21:01Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so 10th grade, all of a sudden you go from like doing like bumps of some ground up oxy derivative pill at the golf sales place to driving to South Los Angeles. I'm sorry, I stepped on your story. You meet this kid from the continuation school and he's your heroin connection.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:23Tucker Carlson?

  What's he like?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Just some, just like slimy, just dirtbag. I mean, I don't, yeah, I mean, just, yeah, just some guy that, you know, we were only, the only reason we associated with him was because he had that connection. And yeah, not exactly, you know, he's the type of guy who would steal your wallet and help you look for it. But again, that's most junkies are.

• 21:49Tucker Carlson?

  Was he using heroin too?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was, he was a big user and he was actually ripped, I found out he was ripping us off when I got a direct connection and he was basically saying it was double the price for the amount, because you get like a, you get a little package with 12 balloons in it and it was $45 and he was saying it was $90. So he was able to like get two, pocket one and give one, give one to us.

• 22:12Tucker Carlson?

  So did you have to go with him to South LA?

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, we would drive him. He didn't have a car, so you know, I would drive him in my, my 1998 Jeep and we'd all just pile in there. And this, the feds were watching like these, like they literally, there was an article in the OC register.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  I think it came out while I was in rehab, but uh, basically just kind of giving an overview of the whole thing. The number you'd call, the guy's name was Boss. So you call his phone number and, and this guy goes, all right, how, what do you want? And you tell him how many packs you want. And then he's like, all right, meat. And it would be like one of three freeway exits, you know, right in that area and like always like a, a fast food parking lot, something like that. Yeah.

• 22:58Tucker Carlson?

  What, what town?

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Uh, it was Southgate.

• 23:00Tucker Carlson?

  Boy, that's just depressing. That area is depressing.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  So, so, yeah.

• 23:05Tucker Carlson?

  So you're meeting at like In-N-Out Burger or Wendy's or something?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, yeah, some, yeah, we can just pull in real quick. Um, and then they'd, um, that you'd meet the, they would always send a runner and usually it was a different person, but, um, I started, you know, so yeah, they'd meet you, they'd say, all right, you know, come into the car that you'd get into the passenger seat. They reach into the, um, the air vent, pull it out, give you the, give you the dope, give them the money. Boom. And

• 23:33Tucker Carlson?

  You have to get into their car?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:36Tucker Carlson?

  What were the guys like who were selling it?

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Um, you know, this is, this is the kind of one of the crazier things about this whole, this whole experience. So the runner that I had the most contact with, uh, he was, you know, he's a cool guy, just this little Hispanic guy, you know? I mean, obviously a gang banger who would, you know, shoot you as soon as to look at you, but, um, he was very, you know, very nice to me. Um, and, you know, he would give me discounts occasionally and he actually, finally he was like, hey, you know what? You no longer have to call Boss. You can just hear, I'll give you my personal line. Um, and you can just call me and then, you know, have to save, save you the hassle of going through the whole, the whole process. I was like, oh, cool, man. Thanks. And so, you know, we developed a kind of, you know, friendship, I guess. And, uh,

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Probably the wildest story that I have. So we uh, so my friends from South Orange County, again, very affluent, you know, um, I don't know if you've heard of like Nellie Gale in, in South Orange County. It's like, uh, it's a, it's like one of the ritziest neighborhoods in the country. Uh, it's got like horse trails running through it and you know, um, and you know, the houses are like at a minimum, you know, five million dollars. Uh, so yeah, it's a very nice area, very affluent area. And that's where pretty much all my friends lived. And uh, but uh, this girl we knew, um, her uncle was, uh, he owned the house. Have you seen the show Entourage? Have you heard of it? Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, um, he owned the house that, um, at least like two seasons of the show were filmed in. And she's like, yeah, we can go up there for the weekend. I was

• 25:07Speaker 02

  like, oh, awesome. And so it's funny, we drive all the way to Beverly Hills, like two and a half hour drive and up this private road to this, you know, this beautiful mansion. The door's locked and, and she kind of lied or, you know, misled us about having permission to go to the house. And so I'm like, are you fucking kidding? And anyways, uh, excuse me. Uh, so I ended up finding, uh, I saw like a door sized window, um, like on the side of the house. And so I maneuvered my way up there, pushed on the door and it just popped open. And I was like, waiting for an alarm to go off. Like, okay. And so I walk in, open the front door and, and we're in. And, uh, and then I was like, oh man, I really need some, some heroin, but I don't want to drive down to Southgate, you know?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Um, and so I called the guy and I was like, hey, man, we've got a huge mansion. You know, there's only like seven of us. This is why you don't let your niece bust into your house with her junkie buddy. We'll just wait. Um, and I was like, yeah, you know, if you wanna, if you can, you know, I know you don't typically, typically do deliveries, but if you could bring me an order, you know, you're welcome to stay and, I mean, bring whomever you want. So he brings like two, two big, two big Mexican dudes and like 10 big booty Latina, beautiful chicks, beautiful chicks, like. Yeah, um, and a candy dish with all these different pills, Valium, Xanax, uh, you know,

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Oxy's, uh, just all that, and at least an eight ball of Coke, a giant bag of Coke. And that was, those were just party favors, and he brought me my order, obviously. Uh, but, uh, and so we spent the night partying, um, you know, hanging out in the indoor pool, you know, doing lines off of, you know, girls' stomachs, and it was a wild, crazy time. I mean, it was like, literally like the show Entourage, but like junkie version. Uh, just going on inside. Unbelievable. Yeah. Did the uncle ever come back? Well, so, the next morning, and thank God. Were you in high school at this point?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was, I was, um, 16, I think. Um, it's, it's so, like, cause I was, I was going back and trying to like, remember things, and it's like, some of it is so blurry, that it's hard to like, what, wait, when, how old was I, and have to like, try to like... I grew up in that area, so I know what you're talking about. Um, and, uh, so, yeah, the next morning, myself and a few other people leave, and, and... Did you sleep at all, or just play through? No, no, didn't sleep, didn't sleep for a second. Um, and yeah, left the next morning with a few of my buddies, and, and the, the game bangers departed. And the big booty Latina girls, too?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, they, they left as well. Um, and, uh, so, you know, I go back to Orange County, and, um, the next day, a police officer comes to our house. And, um, it was like a female investigator, and she's like, asking me questions, like, were you at this house? And blah, blah, blah, and I was like, I was there on, she's like, were you there, like, Saturday? I was like, no, I was there Friday. I was like, I was there Friday. I was told we were allowed to be there, cause I thought it was breaking and entering, that's what I assumed. And so I was like, I was told we were supposed to be there, allowed to be there, and, you know, so... And she's like, well, you're not aware that that portion of the house was burned down?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  And I'm like, no, what are you talking about? And so she proceeds to tell me the story. Apparently, um, some of the other people that the girl invited out for the next night, one person got really high, fell asleep with like a frozen pizza in the oven or something like that and started a fire. And instead of like trying to put it out, they just left.

• 29:03Tucker Carlson?

  Drug addicts are all the same, aren't they?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  And so there's like literally smoke billowing from this and it's like on a hill like too. So like you can see it from like, like a very far away.

• 29:17Tucker Carlson?

  It is called Beverly Hills.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  And so like they're driving down the hill as the fire, you know, the ambulance and the cops are coming up the hill and the cop flips a U and he's like, because it's a private road and only leads to that house. And so they're like, are you leaving that house? So like, no, you know, idiots, no, of course not. We weren't there, you know, lying, lying, lying. And then the cops are like, come on. So, you know, the, and um,

• 29:47Speaker 02

  the, I think one of them ended up getting charged with like fleeing the scene of a crime or something like that, but nothing serious came out of it. Uh, but yeah, it was wild. And like when she told me that, I was like.

• 30:01Tucker Carlson?

  How did they know you were there?

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Because the, the house owner basically gave her a list of everyone who was there. Like the girl who took us out there basically gave the.

• 30:11Tucker Carlson?

  But it was her uncle's house?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, he owned it.

• 30:16Tucker Carlson?

  So as you're doing lines off the navels of big booty Latinas with your gang banger heroin dealer buddy in some girl's uncle's house where Entourage was filmed. What are your parents thinking at this point of like what you're doing?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Uh, well, my parents, you know, God bless them. They're so naive and like in my, and my dad, you know, had this consistent belief that, you know, our kids will do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because of the consequence that could come from it. And, you know, as, as, you know, as noble as that is, it's just, it doesn't work. You know, you, you have to have consequences. Otherwise you will run rampant and think you can do whatever you want. And that's how it is. It's not how it is.

• 31:05Tucker Carlson?

  I don't judge them. I grew up around, I mean, they sound like Southern Californians in their attitude in that way. Yeah.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, uh, you know, yeah, my dad was just, um, you know, very, you know, had a very strong, um, moral conviction that, you know, he believed just was passed on to us. And so, so my parents were, again, you know, had no idea what was going on until, um, kind of another story. Basically, long story short, I had a friend who was put into a coma. Um, we were at a party and this guy, this guy came out really angry and just punched my friend in the face. He fell, hit his head, put into a coma. And, um, he wakes up three weeks later and my mom is there. I wasn't there. My mom was there and she, and he says, Patty, you

• 31:52Speaker 02

  need to get Chris away from, and she named out, she named, you know, some of the kids that I was associating with. And she said, why? You know, cause you know, they're at my house and they're, they're.

• 32:02Tucker Carlson?

  That was the first thing he said when he came out of a coma?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes.

• 32:06Tucker Carlson?

  God exists.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. God bless him. Uh, really. It was, uh, and then of course, you know, at the time I was like that, you know, snitch, uh, you know, that kind of mentality. It's like, why are you trying to rain on my parade? Uh, you know, I'm just having a good time.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  And, uh, but yeah, you know, I mean, my friends tried several, like, you know, my, my, my, quote unquote, stoner friends tried several interventions. Um, and I was just like, you know, extremely defensive and like, who are you people to tell me anything, you know?

• 32:41Speaker 02

  And, you know, but again, they had my best interest at heart.

• 32:44Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  And, uh, and, you know, many of those people I'm still in contact with today and, I'm so grateful that they, you know, took the time and the effort to try to save me from myself.

• 32:56Tucker Carlson?

  Incredible. Are you still in, are you still in high school at this point? Are you going to class? Are you?

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, going to class, you know, leaving early, uh, stuff like that, you know, ditching, you know, like fifth period, fourth period to go hang out and, you know.

• 33:10Tucker Carlson?

  How often are you doing heroin at this point?

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Every day.

• 33:13Tucker Carlson?

  Every day? At what time of day? Like, what's the schedule for heroin addiction?

• 33:16Speaker 02

  So wake up. So I wasn't shooting it up, uh, yet. I was, I was smoking it at first and, uh,

• 33:22Tucker Carlson?

  How did you smoke it?

• 33:23Speaker 02

  So it's, so in California, um, heroin's mostly black tar heroin.

• 33:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yep, yep.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  And, uh, so basically.

• 33:30Tucker Carlson?

  From Asia, correct?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:33Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Um, but, uh, yeah, it's like this, like little black, yeah, like square. And so you put it on a piece of tinfoil, you put a lighter underneath it and you get a straw. And it makes like, it goes, it'll like trail down the tinfoil and you're, and the smoke's coming up and you suck it through the straw with the lighter. And, uh, yeah, that was the.

• 33:57Tucker Carlson?

  What's the high like from it?

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, just total euphoria. Again, you feel like you're on, you're on top of the world. You can, it doesn't matter if you're literally, your life is falling down around you. You don't care. It's like, you're fine. Everything is fine. Everything is great.

• 34:16Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So again, then the insanity.

• 34:20Tucker Carlson?

  How long does it last?

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Um, I was just smoking it. And again, it all depends on like your tolerance level and things like that, and things like that. But let's say like, uh, you know, probably three, four hours, five hours. Um.

• 34:37Tucker Carlson?

  So while you're in high school, when are you smoking heroin?

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Uh, so I would do it, uh, before school, uh, you know, at home.

• 34:45Tucker Carlson?

  In your bedroom?

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And, uh,

• 34:48Tucker Carlson?

  And your parents had no idea?

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Or in my shower, in my shower. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, no, they didn't, yeah, they didn't, they, so when my friend got out of the coma, they, you know, started to kind of try to keep a closer eye on me. But I was still, you know, I was incredibly deceptive and very manipulative.

• 35:07Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Very manipulative and deceptive, uh, with my parents, uh, making them think that, oh, these kids are great. No, they're, they're actually the good kids.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  And God, when I think about like the torment that I put my parents through, it's just.

• 35:23Tucker Carlson?

  Where were you getting the money to buy all this heroin?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Uh, so I was, um, I had, I had, I still had that job at the, um, uh, golf or selling golf clubs and, um, and then I, you know, I would occasionally take money from my parents.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Whatever I needed to do. Um, and then things I'm, you know, not proud of.

• 35:47Tucker Carlson?

  I bet.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Uh, but yeah, that's the nature of the disease is you will do anything to get that, get that next fix.

• 35:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Um, and, uh,

• 36:02Speaker 02

  so from smoking, it quickly deteriorated to, um, to shooting up because, you know, I'd say within like a month of smoking it, I started shooting up because, you know, my couple of my buddies started doing it and they're like, oh my gosh dude, you only have to use like one fifth of the amount and you get like a high that's like 10 times better. I'm like, oh, great. Save money.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  And yeah, I remember the first time, like, I remember the first time my buddy and I did it, we looked it up, how to inject, you know, great Google search, how to inject heroin with your body.

• 36:38Tucker Carlson?

  You Google searched it?

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, and they have like images of like, cause you're supposed to go like diagonally, like with the, you know, like just go straight down to you like, cause you wanna, you wanna go into the vein.

• 36:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  And then, and then you basically draw back the syringe and once you see blood, cause you know that it's in the vein, then you inject it. But, um, if you miss, it's really painful. Uh, you basically, what happens is like, you don't, and you don't get that immediate euphoric rush that you, that comes with shooting up. That's, that doesn't come with smoke, like smoking it, yes, you get euphoria, but shooting up, it's like, it's that, it's instantaneous and it's, it hits so much harder. It's like crack versus cocaine.

• 37:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um. And yeah, it was just a very, very-

• 37:25Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just ask you for perspective?

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:26Tucker Carlson?

  So how long between you, you know, the moment you first crushed a pill and snorted it? And the moment you first shot heroin? Like, how long was, did that progression take?

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Uh, I would say less than a year, probably about like nine months.

• 37:45Tucker Carlson?

  Damn. That's a pretty speedy-

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Progressive illness, yeah. Progressive illness, man.

• 37:53Tucker Carlson?

  So what was it like the first time you shot heroin? Where'd you do it?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Uh, it was at my buddy's, uh, buddy's house in, um, in Laguna Hills, in, in, no, that neighborhood that I mentioned, Nellie Gill.

• 38:05Tucker Carlson?

  The five million dollar house neighborhood?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And, uh, so, yeah, we were, um, in his room and I did it. And, yeah, again, it's that, just this overwhelming sense of euphoria and, yeah, e- everything is wonderful. Even if, you know, you're, even if your life sucks. And, and again, I understand why a lot of, you know, like homeless people do drugs. It's like because their life is literally just in shambles and, you know, so I mean-

• 38:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, they're so broken, there's no way to fix it. This is their thinking, so like, this is the escape.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, so what's the point? Yeah, exactly. Why not just live in like a, you know, almost like a metaverse, you know?

• 38:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, exactly. Nicely put.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Uh, thank you. Um, so, yeah, so I went to like, probably, I would say, not exaggerating, over 10 rehab centers in California.

• 38:57Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, so how did you get? Okay, so you start shooting heroin. How did you get busted? How did you wind up going to rehab?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, so, uh, I, uh, I was, uh, so I was shooting up on a, on a daily basis and I actually started going to a continuation school because I was just, I stopped going to class, um, my grades were too low, um, and, you know, I basically got kicked out of school. Uh, and so I was at a continuation school.

• 39:26Tucker Carlson?

  So you wind up in like-

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, the, the place I mo- the place I would ridicule and mock, like, and then I'm, now I'm, I'm one of them.

• 39:34Tucker Carlson?

  Was your junkie friend still there?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Um-

• 39:37Tucker Carlson?

  The guy who first turned you on to the deal?

• 39:39Speaker 02

  No, no, cause he was, um, he was like- Much older, yeah, or like, yeah, he was a, yeah, he was a senior when I like, I was a sophomore and he, and he barely attended, like, I saw him a few times on campus, but he barely went to school even when he was at continuation school. So, yeah, um, and, yeah, we really didn't associate with that guy other than just to go buy drugs. But, um, because he was not exactly, you know, a fun person to be around.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  And so I, doing drugs, doing heroin, or doing, shooting up heroin before school. And for some reason, that day, I decided to take my, uh, take all my drugs with me. I had a little, like, Ziploc packet with my syringe, my, uh, you know, my, uh, what I use to tie off, you know, you know, all my equipment.

• 40:26Tucker Carlson?

  Where'd you get the syringes, by the way?

• 40:27Speaker 02

  So, uh, there are certain pharmacies that will, you know, if you say, uh, you know, my, my grandmother's a diabetic or whatever, um, that, and I think nowadays they just give them to you in a lot of places, especially like Northern California.

• 40:42Tucker Carlson?

  Anything they can do to encourage a drug addicted population, therefore?

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100% it's disgusting. Gavin Newsom makes me sick. The money, like, you know, he talks about this multifaceted plan to attack the opioid epidemic. It's like, yeah, you've spent billions of dollars and it's only gotten worse.

• 40:57Tucker Carlson?

  Right, encouraging people to be addicts, yeah.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. Um, and so I got, uh, so I decided for some dumb reason to bring my, uh, drugs to school with me that day. And, uh, and I also did something that I would never normally do. It's, I, I told some random person that I'd never met that I was high on heroin, like, in class. Like, someone I'd sat next to the first time, seemed like a cool person, cool guy, like, yeah, I'm on heroin. Yeah, and he's like, oh, really? And like, didn't seem like he was gonna tell on me. And, uh, and so I'm in, I remember like, two periods later, I'm in class and, uh,

• 41:40Speaker 02

  some administrator comes into the, the room and says, um, Chris Chella, can you come to the office? And, and I saw a cop behind her and I was like, oh, fuck. And so I go down to the office and, um, she's like, yeah, um, we heard a rumor that you were doing drugs. And I'm like,

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Who said that? She's like, "Well, I can't tell you." And I was like, "Well, it's not true." You know, deny, deny, deny, deny. But they're like, she's like, "Okay, well, um, you know, we're gonna search you." And I was like, "I don't think you guys have the, I don't think you guys have the legal right to search me." And she's like, "If we have probable cause and like, you know, the..." Basically, I allowed it. I wasn't sure if it was legal or not, but I was hoping that... And, and so they searched me in pants, you know, belt, all that stuff. And she was about to turn away, and then she says, "Wait, let me check your socks." Literally, like, last thing she did. And I was like, "Oh, fuck." And so, of course, got caught, got arrested.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  So you had the kid in your socks? Yeah, yeah. It's just like, you know, high socks with it just like, right here. And, um, so I get, you know, arrested or detained, and my, you know, the cop releases me into my mom's custody. Uh, and my mom drives me home. She says, "You're, you're going to rehab." Like, uh, you know, "I don't wanna hear anything about it. You're going to rehab." And I was like, "Okay." And your mom is like, someone who knows opioids, like, how bad it is? Yes, yes. And, um, and that's why she would, you know, at times, you know, and it was like, I was in terrible withdrawal. And I was like, "Mom, I'm dying.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Like, I, I need, like, please, just give me, like..." You know, and, you know, she would occasionally give me a little bit of money just to, 'cause she felt, 'cause she knew, she knew. And God bless her, you know, she just, I put so, I, you know, I rained down so much terror and chaos upon my parents. They just, they were just trying everything they could think of. And, you know, some things they did really well, some things, obviously, you know, again, being a parent is hard. Yeah. Especially a parent of a wild psychotic drug addict. Yeah. Um, uh, and, and, and dealing with, you know, obviously, you know, my sister's issues as well, you know, just, goodness. Um, but as soon as my mom turned her back, I stole the eighty dollars she had in cash

• 44:10Speaker 02

  out of her wallet and drove to LA. And obviously, um, oh, so, the gangbanger that I, I left this out, the gangbanger that I was partying with? I really regret doing this because you know I consider him a friend. But I was desperate at the time and so I was like, alright, I'm gonna rob him.

• 44:31Tucker Carlson?

  You're gonna rob the gangbanger?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, and so I

• 44:36Tucker Carlson?

  That doesn't seem like a good decision.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  No, no. Again, but you know, so desperate in agony and like, what else can I do? So I got this like 225, 225 pound Scottish kid and this big kid from the football team. And I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna rob this little skinny Mexican guy. It's like, no problem. And they're like, alright, cool. And

• 45:04Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 45:04Speaker 02

  As, as we were getting up there.

• 45:06Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, super dumb people then?

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Yes. One of, one of them, one of them became a meth head. He mocked me for being a heroin addict and like, you know, shunned me, but then he became like a hardcore meth head. And, uh, but when I like

• 45:21Tucker Carlson?

  So but you just go to them cold, "Hey, we're gonna rob some Mexican kid."

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I, I failed to mention that he was, you know, a gangbanger and, you know, had associations with the Mexican mafia. And, uh, and so I, I kinda let, I accidentally let that slip, um, on the ride up there. And they're like, "Uh, we don't wanna do this anymore."

• 45:44Tucker Carlson?

  No, no.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  And, and, and so like, we get there and I'm like, "You fucking pussies." And so I just, sorry, cursing. Um, so I just, uh, uh, get into the car myself and commit it, commit the robbery.

• 45:59Tucker Carlson?

  How do you rob him?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  So, um, I sprayed him in the face with pepper spray. And, um, uh, put something to his throat, said, "Don't move." Just reached into the, because I knew where he kept it and just reached in and grabbed it. And, uh, and then jumped out. My friend was in the driver's seat. And I was like, "Go." And he's driving like a maniac and I'm like, "Dude, calm down, slow down." Like, um, because of very narrow streets in that area, things like that. And so we're driving and, uh,

• 46:28Tucker Carlson?

  You're making me tense, man, just telling me this story. Where were you? What town was this?

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Uh, this was in like Southgate, like the same, same area that, you know, I was going to pick up the stuff before. And, um,

• 46:40Tucker Carlson?

  You pepper sprayed a member of the Mexican mafia and stole his heroin?

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 46:46Tucker Carlson?

  You got balls, I'll say that.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Again.

• 46:49Tucker Carlson?

  Have you apologized to him, by the way, years later?

• 46:53Speaker 02

  I haven't had the opportunity.

• 46:54Tucker Carlson?

  You haven't been back to Southgate?

• 46:55Speaker 02

  No, yeah.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  If you're watching, I apologize, man.

• 47:00Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, I was about to say, would you like to say sorry?

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I, I do regret it, um, but, uh, so, yeah, so my friend's driving down the street and we, I see him driving down the like perpendicular street behind us and I'm like, how the fuck is he driving? I just like unloaded a bunch of pepper spray in his face and...

• 47:19Tucker Carlson?

  He's armed, too.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  What?

• 47:20Tucker Carlson?

  He's armed.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, probably, yeah, um, and so we're, uh, like my, so I'm like, alright, just keep driving and he, for some reason, he like just does like a wild turn onto a very narrow, um, residential street, crashes into an oncoming

• 47:37Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, come on!

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm just like, you fuck, fucking idiot.

• 47:42Tucker Carlson?

  Do you go to church?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yes, I, I've, I've, yes, I've gone to confession so many times and, and yeah.

• 47:49Tucker Carlson?

  And but just to say thank you, too, for being here, for being alive.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, exa- I should have died so many times over.

• 47:56Tucker Carlson?

  You think?

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, I mean, the amount of, not just, you know, the stupid things that I was doing outside of my use, but I mean, the, like, if I was an addict in the age of fentanyl, where like fentanyl is laced in, I probably would have died. Um, just because I stopped in 2016 when that was like, when it started to really get like when, when they started to put heroin into fentanyl, or fentanyl into heroin and other drugs because...

• 48:22Tucker Carlson?

  When Trump got elected and the Chinese decided to just like, kill a huge part of our population.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Flood, yeah, flood our country with poison, basically.

• 48:30Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  And...

• 48:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I remember that. I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story again.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  No, no, no, you're fine, dude, you're fine, you're fine.

• 48:37Tucker Carlson?

  And by the way, can I just make one other editorial comment? As a product of Southern California, it's really a decadent society. Just being, I'm like for real decadent. Yeah. I don't. I'm sure. Um, and I grew up there, you know, in the, in the early eighties was when I was your age, you know, the age you described, and it was so decadent that I, I almost never think about it, but, um, but you were a product of that society. I mean, I'm just telling you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So here's the facts of life. You may not learn till you're older, but I'm going to tell you now, it's very hard to have a good time if you're wearing bad boots. In fact, it may be impossible, and that's why you need Tacovas. As a matter of fact, you don't just need them, you owe them to yourself.

• 49:18Tucker Carlson?

  Tacovas makes Western boots for everybody, ranchers, real ranchers, lifelong cowboys, first time boot buyers, and anyone in between. Every Tacovas boot is handcrafted, made by hand with over 200 meticulous steps for a broken in feel right out of the box. You don't have to compromise between looks and quality. You can have them both. Whether it's a long day or a big night, Tacovas are built to last and impressed. You wouldn't believe the compliments people here get when they wear them out, which they do. Right now, get 10% off at tecovas.com/tucker when you sign up for email and text alerts. That's 10% off at Tacova, T E C O V A S dot com slash Tucker.

• 49:58Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up? Yeah, I don't got this. You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 50:34Speaker 06

  Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best sleep with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use as directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 50:43Tucker Carlson?

  Um, anyway, okay, so your, so your friend. You see the guy from the Mexican mafia, he's somehow recovered from getting shot in the face with pepper spray.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:52Tucker Carlson?

  Of course he has a gun in the vehicle and he's looking to kill you. And you see him perpendicular, your friend swerves down a narrow road and head-

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Head on, yeah, with some, you know, uh, driver by and, uh, so I jump out of the car, stash my drugs.

• 51:11Tucker Carlson?

  Have you, have you used the heroin yet?

• 51:13Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 51:14Tucker Carlson?

  So you're still like jumpy withdrawal guy at this point?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, uh, but I like, I stashed it and this one, uh, like, there was like, cause there was a bunch of people, like, they immediately started to like, and my two friends take off, by the way. They just start running down the street. I'm like, why?

• 51:29Tucker Carlson?

  Running down the street?

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, in, in South, in South Gate.

• 51:32Tucker Carlson?

  And this is not an Anglo neighborhood, so like, they stick out.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like sore thumbs, like a big, yeah, I mean, well, one of them was Hispanic, so maybe not so much, but, um, but the Scottish guy, yeah, like, um, and, uh, so we, uh, so, uh, so I jump out of the car, I stash my drugs, sit down on the curb and wait for the police, um, you know, cause there's, there's so many people there, so many witnesses, um, and, but again, no one knew that what had just transpired, all this, all, again, like, it was just a, a car accident, as far as they were concerned, um, and as far as the police were concerned, and so, uh, yeah, my friends run and the cops, the

• 52:19Speaker 02

  cops come, they show up, they're like, you know, hey, what are you doing out here? I was like, we were trying to find a friend's house, we got turned around, um, uh-

• 52:26Tucker Carlson?

  In South Gate?

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, made up some bull, bullshit story.

• 52:29Tucker Carlson?

  Just trying to find a friend's house?

• 52:32Speaker 02

  And, um, and he's like, well, do you need to go to the hospital? And I'm like, no, no, I'm good, I'm good, um, I'm fine. And he's like, okay, well, um, do you, do you have a ride? I was like, yeah, I'm gonna call somebody to pick me up. And he's like, okay. And, um, so, you know, I wait for them to depart and go back into the little bush, of course, grab my, grab my drugs, can't forget that, uh, and, um-

• 52:55Speaker 02

  And then I got, I ended up getting a ride from a buddy, another user. And I was like, hey, I'll give you some, give you some dope, you can pick me up. Because I was, I was very concerned that they were going to like, you know, I was like, I need to get out of Southgate, fast.

• 53:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, like, right away.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I, yeah, so I was like, dude, just please come, come pick me up. I will make it worth your while. And so I get picked up.

• 53:17Tucker Carlson?

  So you had to wait on the sidewalk?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Well, I, I was, I was actually, this, this nice lady, um, she was, uh, like, her house was like, right next to where the accident took place. And so I was like, do you mind if I just like, post up on your, on your front step? Like, I was like, I'm, I just want to wait for my ride and, you know, it's kind of, I'm kind of scared. I'm in a dangerous neighborhood. You know, played like the little, oh, oh, poor me, you know. Uh, and, uh, she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, very kind. Uh, and so I just sit there and wait and, um, and, you know, I have like, the drugs in my fist, ready to like, toss them at a moment's notice if I need to, or whatever. Um, and, and then I get picked up and that's that. But what transpired after, because thankfully, they only knew me by CJ, like, Chris Junior,

• 54:03Speaker 02

  my initials, that's what I went by, my nickname, from like kindergarten through, yeah, through high school. Um, and then they, and they knew I lived in South Orange County. And, but they didn't know anything else. And so they would, so they, they switched up the way they did their, um, uh, like, the way they did the process of selling the dope, where they would, now you had to, so you had to meet up, then follow them down, like, this empty street, or an alley, or something like that, then stand up against a chain link fence and get searched. And then you could get into the car and get your stuff. And, and they would ask every single person, do you know CJ? Do you know, uh, CJ from South Orange County? Do you know where he lives?

• 54:47Tucker Carlson?

  Ooh.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  And, yeah, so for a very long while, um, and, you know, I was like, so grateful when I saw that OC Register article, the fact that they had, and I saw that his picture, um, in the, you know, his mugshot in the article, wild, um, and his name listed, uh, not gonna say, just not gonna say it. Uh, but, um, yeah, I mean, crazy stuff.

• 55:10Tucker Carlson?

  Let me just pause to ask you. The guys who you were with on that caper where you assaulted the member of the Mexican mafia, did they turn out okay?

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Um, well, one of them became a meth head.

• 55:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Um, and it's ironic because when they got like, when they got caught, they got caught at like a Starbucks, um, cops picked them up and they immediately just spilled, they told them the whole story for no reason. And I know for a fact because my father represented him in the hit and run. And the, the, the, I took the DA like until almost the end of the trial to figure out that I was also associated. And like, he's like, wait, your son was involved in this? And, and my dad was like, trying so hard to thread the needle, you know, to not get me, not expose me to any potential criminality and also, you know,

• 56:08Speaker 02

  defend my friend. And, uh, yeah, it was.

• 56:13Tucker Carlson?

  So one became a drug addict.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  And the other one, I kind of lost, lost contact with, have no idea.

• 56:18Tucker Carlson?

  How many of the guys that you partied with in high school are sober now? How many are dead? Do you, do you keep track?

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Um, from high school, uh, most, yeah, I, one friend passed away, um, opiate user, good guy, but, um, you know, he wasn't like a particularly heinous junkie. I mean, he just was a junkie. Um, but he was a good, I like, you know, good hearted. Uh, and, uh, but he passed away.

• 56:45Tucker Carlson?

  Of an OD?

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, overdose. Uh, and, um, you know, I had, I met a few friends in rehab, one whom I was very close to, lived in New York and, you know, we stayed in contact, met in Florida, stayed in contact. Um, and for, you know, like four years and then, uh, you know, I got a call from his mom that saying that he had OD'd, you know, relapsed and, uh, and, you know, it was just heartbreaking. Uh, but, uh, yeah, most, but no, most of my friends, like, like the stoners from high school.

• 57:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Um, are very successful individuals, college graduates, um, you know, working in finance, working in different, you know, sectors and having a great life.

• 57:27Tucker Carlson?

  What about the opioid users?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  The opioid users, kind of like, they have the advantage of like, many of them that I hang out with, or hung out with, excuse me, were already, you know, their family was just uber wealthy. Like, one of them, one of their fathers was the CEO of a company called AmeriQuest. He was worth like, you know, eighty million dollars. So they, they had a, you know, a lot of money to fall back on. So like, they tried opening up like a clothing line, different thing, but ultimately-

• 58:00Tucker Carlson?

  Music label?

• 58:02Speaker 02

  What?

• 58:02Tucker Carlson?

  Music label?

• 58:03Speaker 02

  No, not yet.

• 58:04Tucker Carlson?

  That's kind of the classic one.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, there were other kids in our, in our, in Orange County that did do that, that started, that tried to start a rap group, and I'm just like-

• 58:13Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, yeah. I could write this story.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  It's just, yeah, the Orange County is so weird. But, anyway, so yeah, so I've, yeah, but most of my friends from high school are very successful. And, I mean, my, like, the one, the Stoners are, yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, yeah, I've lost multiple friends, you know, people that I actually genuinely cared about, not just, you know, acquaintances.

• 58:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  You know, I had too many acquaintances to count, but, you know, real friends, it's been like, you know, like five.

• 58:49Tucker Carlson?

  Do you have any idea what happened to the guy you pepper sprayed?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  No. And, oh, this is, this is nuts. When I was in rehab, so the guy, the guy boss, right, he had different runners, like, you know, multiple guys who would run into cars. And one time, I had this guy, and, so I was in rehab, and it was like, it was in, it was in San Diego, and, I think it's Chula Vista.

• 59:15Tucker Carlson?

  Great place to put a rehab.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  But it was like a-

• 59:17Tucker Carlson?

  Well, your rehab was in Chula Vista?

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, yeah, it's like, you're setting yourself up to fail. But-

• 59:27Speaker 02

  They uh had like it was a mansion and then it uh kind of like a bungalow they had little like bungalows um like type things and so it could house about like thirty forty people and so they

• 59:41Speaker 02

  um had me there and this guy comes in and I'm like he looks familiar and I didn't like I didn't I couldn't put my finger on where I'd seen him before and he goes he goes hey man he said he said I used to he said I used to run for boss and I uh he's like I think I delivered you once and I'm like oh my god and he's like and he's like he's like he's like you're friends with right and and guy that robbed the guy that I robbed and I was like yeah yeah great friends and um I was like I heard he was locked up though he's like yeah no he's out now and I was like oh okay and he's like I'll tell him you said hi when because you get a seven day blackout and you can't use the phone

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  uh when you first go and a lot of treatments under that rule this place did um and so

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  he's like yeah I'll tell you said what up when I uh when I talked to him I'm like oh my god he's this guy's gonna knife me in my sleep you know and I was seriously I I was concerned I was gonna tell uh like my therapist and see you know what could potentially be done because I was genuinely because you could easily in that place sneak out of your bedroom going and go into someone else's bedroom yeah if you wanted to it's not like it's locked down you know they have you know quote unquote people that are watching at night but the place is so big it's you know you could do it if you want to

• 1:01:06Tucker Carlson?

  and of course there are no locks on the doors

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  no no of course not because yeah exactly um people were buying air duster and like you know like anything to get a buzz and I was just like Wow, that was kind of eye opening for me, but not eye opening enough to stop, but it's like wow.

• 1:01:25Tucker Carlson?

  This year, so how many times did you get a rehab?

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Uh, total between California and Florida, probably somewhere between 15 and 20.

• 1:01:34Tucker Carlson?

  15 and 20?

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got, cause I got kicked out of a bunch of places for stupid, for, for reasons that were not related to drugs necessarily. Uh, fraternization.

• 1:01:45Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean?

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Hook up with girls that were.

• 1:01:47Tucker Carlson?

  Grabbing the girls, yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, not again, consensually.

• 1:01:50Tucker Carlson?

  Right, no, I'm sorry, right, I meant that in a consensual.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Just let me, yeah, clarify that.

• 1:01:55Tucker Carlson?

  Right, in a pre Harvey Weinstein sense. Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, and um, I mean, I was like 17, 18 years old.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  And, and you, and you have.

• 1:02:07Tucker Carlson?

  Does heroin affect your sex drive?

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Yes, it makes, it lowers it a lot, and then when you come off of it, horny 24/7, like.

• 1:02:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause it's like.

• 1:02:18Tucker Carlson?

  Cocaine is like that.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and it's, it's interesting because like my, one of my therapists described um, withdrawal as your body basically being in shock because you've been numbing all your senses for so long.

• 1:02:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  And then when you stop, your body is like, everything is just like taking in light.

• 1:02:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Chewing food, everything hurt, like my eyes hurt, my teeth hurt, every muscle and bone in my body ached, like it, it is, if you could find a way to like inject that into, like find a way to like inject that feeling into like a, for interrogation purposes, let that guy sweat it out for a day, he'll tell you where all the bombs are, I assure you, you know, it is like, truly, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

• 1:03:05Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is so bad.

• 1:03:07Tucker Carlson?

  So did you have to detox, I guess, every single time, 15 or 20 times you went to rehab?

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Pretty much, um, there were a few times when I was uh, like kind of just on and off using, and so it was like the withdrawal was like, yeah, I kind of felt it, but there were, yeah, probably about 10 times when I went through hardcore withdrawal. And uh, yeah, every single time I was like, I never want to feel this feeling again, you know, and, but I wasn't, I still wasn't.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  Committing to myself that I wanted to stop. I was just like-

• 1:03:44Tucker Carlson?

  How long does it last, the withdrawal agony?

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, it's, they say like up to like seven days typically, but I mean, in reality, I, I mean, my withdrawal, um, the, my last withdrawal lasted about like three, it was like three weeks before I remember, I remember like the day I was like laying in bed and I was like, wow, I actually feel comfortable. Like, my body doesn't ache. Like, I, I can, I'm like, I feel, I feel kinda normal.

• 1:04:13Tucker Carlson?

  Three weeks?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, a- a- and it's like, again, the first week is just like absolute hell. You're sweating bullets, you're, uh, cold, like the sweat on your body makes you cold and then it's just, it's, it's terrible. And again, all the other things I described. Um, and that just slowly, and then, and then the, the discomfort, it's like the epitome of discomfort.

• 1:04:35Tucker Carlson?

  Gastrointestinal too?

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Um, uh, some people, some people got like diarrhea, things like that. I did, uh, I didn't, some people got like, would vomit and stuff, but that never really happened to me. It's, I, I guess it's just, you know, depends on the person. But, um, yeah, it just, just, uh, overwhelming like sense of just, yeah, shock, I guess is the best way to put it. Um, and, uh, yeah, uh, again, just terrible.

• 1:05:05Tucker Carlson?

  Interesting. So rehab, I mean, you're making a pretty strong case it doesn't work very well? I mean, if you went to fifty, I mean, God knows what that cost, by the way. You know, someone paid for it. I don't know if it was your family or some insurance program, the state, taxpayers, whatever, but someone's paying a lot of money for that.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. The, so the first rehab I ever went to was, it was called the Phoenix House and it was in, um, it was in like Northern Orange County and it was a state-run facility. And like you, it was like a, kind of like a boot camp style. You had to like fold your bed with the military, you know, corner crease and everything like that. All your, um, shirts had to be lined up, your, um, you know, your toiletries had to be perfectly in a row, all that stuff. Um, and, you know, I-

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Did that and I was like, I hate this. This sucks. And all I want to do is get out and you know, I'm just like, I just can't wait till this 30 days is over so I can leave. And, and I was like, I was like, I don't think I want to do heroin. I was like, I, at that time, I was like, I don't think I want to do heroin, but I definitely want to like, I still want to be able to smoke marijuana. I still want to be able to drink. And like, and I mean, to this day, I still, you know, smoke marijuana and drink recreationally, occasionally. Um, but, um, yeah, I made the decision that I, or you know, I just wasn't ready to quit yet. And I think what, what it's really, you can go to as many different treatment centers, uh, doctors, AA meetings.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  It has to be, I think, an intrinsic motivation to better yourself. And you have to want that, like you have to want, you can't do it for somebody else. If you're doing it for your child, if you're doing it for your wife, if you're doing it for your parents, you're gonna fail.

• 1:06:56Tucker Carlson?

  Hey, it's Tucker Carlson. Not to be a moralizer, but some things, and you know this as well as we do, some things are just wrong. It may not be illegal, but you'd never do them for reasons of self-respect, if no other. And teabagging, sorry to say it, teabagging is one of those. You shouldn't be doing that. And you know, you shouldn't be doing that. And yet, the big nicotine pouch companies encourage you to teabag. They call them nicotine pouches, but they're basically teabags. They're dry, desiccated, tasteless, they're disgusting, and they're degrading to you. Don't put one in your mouth. Now you have an option. It's called ALP. It's not dry, like a teabag. You're not teabagging when you use it. And you should be proud of that. You've got self-respect. Now you can show that self-respect with our No Teabagging T-shirt, which you can find right now at alppouch.com.

• 1:07:42Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:08:12Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up? Did you take Nyquil Intense Flu?

• 1:08:16Speaker 07

  Nah, I got this. Hmm, okay, I don't got this.

• 1:08:21Speaker 05

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• 1:08:24Speaker 06

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• 1:08:33Speaker 05

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• 1:08:34Speaker 06

  Nyquil Intense Flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best sleep with a flu medicine. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 1:08:42Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so let me just ask you, I've heard and known, I've heard this story and I've known many people who've lived this story, where they're addicted to something, whether it's pills or heroin, cocaine, alcohol mostly, and they just go to rehab after rehab after rehab, relapse after relapse after relapse, destroying their sense of themselves and the, you know, they feel like losers, you know, when you keep failing at something, it's not good for you, you know, you fail more.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:09:08Tucker Carlson?

  So why do we have, like, what's the point of this? Like, why do we have, these centers clearly don't work. I mean, do they? I don't know, it doesn't sound like they do.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, again, it's, it's, I think that like, it's, it's, it all depends on the person, but again, it has to, you have to want it, that's the bottom line, it's like, you have to want it, and like, these treatment centers, they can't, they do some good, but they should not be, like, you should not say, you know, rehab is a cure, or AA is a cure, because, like, yeah, if you're go, if you go into those places, you can sometimes develop the intrinsic motivation through therapy or through discussion with other people or whatever, but, I mean, for me, it was, so, uh, fast forward a little bit, so, you know, I get basically kicked out of every rehab in California, so my parents are like, all right, let's send you to Florida, let's try a new environment, and, uh, South

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Florida was like the rehab capital.

• 1:10:04Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, Delray.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, Delray, Boynton Beach, um...

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  And it was just, I mean, I was shocked that like some of the places where the halfway houses were, or the sober homes were located like down the street from like the known markets where people like were, you know.

• 1:10:26Tucker Carlson?

  It's a scam. Look, no one's more for sobriety than I am. I'm a sober person, totally opposed to drugs and alcohol, period. But let's just stop lying about it. This is a, these places are a scam, not all of them.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:39Tucker Carlson?

  But a lot of them are just a money-making scam, profiting off the misery and death of addicts.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, they see you as an insurance policy with a heartbeat.

• 1:10:48Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  That's pretty much it, you know, and.

• 1:10:51Tucker Carlson?

  True villains, I think.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, no, this most, the most sinister man probably in, if you want to just pick one out is, his name is ****. He was, I, that was the first treatment center I went to in Florida. So **** owned a treatment center and he owned several halfway houses. But they were all, everything was in his wife's name. That's one thing that was like a red flag to me. And so, and this guy shows up to the, to the rehab center in like a three-piece, you know, Armani suit with like a Gucci belt and like, you know, like dressed like a pimp, you know, I mean, and ironically, he is a pimp. He was, so he had girls in his halfway houses that he was giving heroin, giving crack and

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  pimping them out and then sending them back to treatment where they would ultimately fail their drug test and have to go to detox. And guess who gets a kickback from the detox center?

• 1:11:46Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's the South Florida Rehab Shuffle. There are many cases of it. If you, you know, you just Google that, you'll see, you know, a bunch of different stories. But ****, and as I would say, is like the kingpin of just absolute scumbag, like you said, villain, a villain, a true villain.

• 1:12:05Tucker Carlson?

  That's so evil that it's.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  It's so, yeah, it's, it's, it's incomprehensible to me as a human being.

• 1:12:10Tucker Carlson?

  It's like a slave trader.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, essentially.

• 1:12:12Tucker Carlson?

  Treating people as objects, as animals.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Tucker Carlson?

  And so, does he, does he, is he still in this business? I never heard of him.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  No, he's, he's, he was sentenced to 27 years in prison. Um, yeah, so the feds, the feds started to crack down on the Florida rehab shuffle, although I read somewhere that it's supposedly coming back. Um, that the, you know, because it's basically, and you know, wasn't the, he was probably one of the worst offenders, but a lot of these guys were, you know, they, they would just like, you know, get these cheap homes, um, fill them with as many addicts as they could. Um, sometimes they would charge rent like 75 bucks a week or something like that, plus the money they're getting from, uh, you know, kickbacks from the, uh, whichever treatment center they send them to. So, you know, they're housed, they send them, and then, and then if they go to detox, you know,

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  the kickback, it's, it's a revolving door of chaos and a revolving door of suffering and just pain for the addict. And, uh, and, but they're making money at every stop.

• 1:13:12Tucker Carlson?

  This is disgusting.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:13:14Tucker Carlson?

  Do the addicts in the rehab center understand that they are pawns in a profit-making scheme?

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  I think, uh, a lot of people were starting to wake up to it. And I, and I knew one of the girls who was, um, one of his victims, and she would, she was always like, man, I just want to get the hell out of here. And she had this like look in her, like I could see that there was something. And I thought she was just very like, you know, maybe had some, some issues with her family or whatever, just a very depressed, sad person, even for an addict, even for an addict. Like I could tell that there was something, like she was in absolute like misery and terror. She was afraid of, I think they were afraid, many people were afraid of him. And what he would do if they spoke out. And, uh, it was just,

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  it was heartbreaking for me to see that. Uh, you know, even as someone who's, you know, obviously committed crimes and things like that, I, I, I can't even imagine having the, the, the will to carry out such a monstrous act.

• 1:14:17Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's, it's, it tells you a lot. So, I mean, that many rehabs, you met a lot of people. What did you learn about addicts?

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Addicts are some of the most resourceful, intelligent people on the planet. Like, you drop an addict in the middle of the desert and they're gonna find the nearest tribe with an opium pipe, you know, within thirty minutes. And so if you get-

• 1:14:46Tucker Carlson?

  They're, they're single-minded, aren't they?

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but if you get them to, if you can, you know, separate them from the drug and separate them from the addiction and turn that into something that's good, like, you know, an addiction to work or addiction to helping other, you know, that you can get addicted to, like, I mean, for me, the reason I got sober, I think there's several factors that played into it, obviously God, you know, and, and the intrinsic motivation, you know, that I talked about, and, and having a fantastic support system that was there for me, they

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  were just waiting for me to come to them, you know, just like, hey, we're here, just-

• 1:15:34Tucker Carlson?

  Your family?

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, my family and, and one of the, one halfway house owner who was kind of participating in this game, but he cared, like, he cared, he genuinely cared about the people who were coming to his house, he did not allow any drug use or anything like that. There was, I, I was at one place that was selling, this, this guy was selling crack to his clients at the halfway house.

• 1:15:57Tucker Carlson?

  No way!

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  Yes, and he was selling crack to just people in general, so we would get knocks on our doors at three o'clock in the morning from total fucking spun-out crackheads.

• 1:16:07Tucker Carlson?

  Come on!

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, man, and there was no door on the bathroom, the, it was a hundred, you know, it was the middle of the summer in South Florida, it's like a hundred and ten degrees out, no air conditioning, just fans littering, you know, littered across the living room and down the hallways and stuff, I mean, just an absolute shitshow, and-

• 1:16:26Tucker Carlson?

  And people are smoking crack in the halfway house?

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, his rule was, you know, fine line, no needles, like, yeah, you can smoke crack, you can smoke whatever you want, just no needles, like, ugh, alright, yeah.

• 1:16:37Tucker Carlson?

  Did you smoke crack in the halfway house?

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple times, yeah.

• 1:16:41Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think of crack?

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  Uh, I'd say it is, it's very destructive, um, obviously, but in terms of like a high, it's like, it's like thirty minutes of-

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  Like, I can con- you know, kind of that I can conquer the world. You wanna start doing all these like different tasks that you've been putting off, like because you feel confident about them now. But then it wears off and then you're just like so depressed. And you think about every bad thing you've ever, it's like, eh, yeah, like, um, I don't know if you've ever had like cocaine withdrawal, like, or, you know, just coming off of cocaine after like a night of Bender. Like, my dad would tell me that when he would do coke, like, he was just like, you think about like, yeah, in third grade, when I pushed that kid, you know, eh, eh, eh, into the stairwell or whatever, uh, just like every, you know, and just like, you just feel like a piece of garbage and you're depressed.

• 1:17:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  And, uh.

• 1:17:30Tucker Carlson?

  You, you, you pay for every happy moment.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, and, and, and the crack, it lasts, it's like, the, it, the high is so fleeting, too. Like with heroin, at least, you get like a few good hours of, you know, a solid buzz. But with crack, it's like, uh, you know, it goes away relatively fast.

• 1:17:48Tucker Carlson?

  Did you, how many people in rehab or halfway houses did you meet who were determined to get sober?

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  Not very many.

• 1:17:58Tucker Carlson?

  How, um, every person, I think without exception, I know who's been addicted to drugs or alcohol, who got better, has a sense that there's, well, as they say in AA, a great, you know, a greater power, that there's God.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:18:12Tucker Carlson?

  And that, you know, human beings have souls and each one is unique and important and life is important and life is better than death and, you know, it's sort of like the basic branding of monotheism, so.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:25Tucker Carlson?

  Like, how big a role did God play in any of these rehab centers?

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  Well, well, when I was, so I was living in the, the halfway house, I was selling, the guy was selling crack to, to us and, um, I'd, I'd just smoked some marijuana for the first time in a long time and it made me like very introspective, you know, we can do that, um, say, like, kind of like psychedelics too, too. Um, and, and I was like, you know, it's, I, and I heard a voice in my head that I can only assume is just, you know, a spiritual awakening God saying, like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you here, surrounded by these people, like, looking around, I'm just like. I have so much more to offer the world than what I'm, you know, I mean, I'm just a derelict and I don't have to be. I have people who love me. I have people who would, you know,

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  would die for me. You know, my family is, you know, uh, you know, are so loyal. Uh, and they love me so much. They just want me to stop being a piece of, piece of garbage. And, uh, and I just, that day, I was like, I am done with this stuff. It's not fun anymore.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  Like, and, and I, and I wanted to better myself. That was, so, you know, I think that was God instilling the motivation. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I got sober at a crack. It's kind of funny, you know, tried 50 different rehab centers, but then ended up, you know, getting sober at a crack house. Um, but I think that that's, yeah, it was-

• 1:19:53Tucker Carlson?

  So you were smoking weed in the halfway house?

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, he didn't care about, yeah. And yeah, you could smoke anything you wanted in there, pretty much. Um, and, uh, yeah, I was just like, that day, I knew I was never gonna touch an opiate again. And I know people say like, you have to wake up and make a decision every day that you're not gonna use, but it's like, I don't even, it doesn't even like register in my mind, like, like to say it, like, oh, I'm not gonna use heroin today because like, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

• 1:20:19Tucker Carlson?

  I do know what you're saying, actually.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, because it's like, I look back and I'm like, that's, I'm a different person. I'm truly a different person. I have like evolved. It's like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, or, you know, whatever analogy you wanna use, but, um, just, and looking back and thinking, how could I have possibly done all this? And, uh, and yeah, I mean, Christ plays a huge role, and I think it's really important. And even for people who are, excuse me, uh, you know, maybe atheistic or whatever, but just believing in something greater than yourself that can, uh, that, you know, you can strive to be better and

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  strive to, you know, just whatever, set goals for yourself and achieve them. And by doing that, you are, you know, I think that's how people-

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Can can find a way out of addiction and then and then you grasp on to something, find things that you really enjoy. So like what I was like, okay, what do I enjoy? I like, I love movies. I'm a huge movie fanatic and I like, I'm really interested in politics and journalism. And ironically, what I mean, I was always, uh, you know, my like Fox News was on my parents' television 24/7, you know, so I grew up conservative. My grandmother was a door knocker for, um, uh, for Reagan and for, um,

• 1:21:46Tucker Carlson?

  Bush?

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  Someone else. I can't think. Um, no, the

• 1:21:48Tucker Carlson?

  Ford, Nixon, Goldwater?

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  The first conservative to run. He didn't win.

• 1:21:52Tucker Carlson?

  Goldwater.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Goldwater.

• 1:21:54Tucker Carlson?

  1964.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, Goldwater. Yeah. And, um, so, yeah, politics kind of is in my DNA, I would say. And, uh, I remember watching Fox in the lead up to the presidential election. It was like the perfect time to be, get interested in politics, right? Uh, you've got Trump and Hillary Clinton. And, and then, uh, I remember seeing you and I was like, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on your podcast. This is genuinely, genuinely the truth. I saw you on, you know, your show and I was like, I, I like, I love the way this guy does the news. It's, it's different. It's unique. It's funny. It's like, I want to do something like that. I want it. That's what I want to do.

• 1:22:35Tucker Carlson?

  You're like, here's a Southern Californian who had addiction problems and he turned out okay. And you're like, hey.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know all that about you yet. No, I was just like, I was just like, wow, this guy is like so much different than the other voices on Fox, you know? I mean, not to, you know, I mean, you know, you just had, it brings such a unique perspective. You're willing to, you know, go against, you know, you quote unquote, the party and call out the, you know, the rhinos and neo cons and all that stuff. And I was just like, he's, he's awesome. Like this is great. And

• 1:23:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, Sue, let me ask you like a philosophical question. So in between jobs, once I got fired from another job, I was an unpaid fellow at a libertarian think tank in DC and I thought I was a libertarian, sort of am libertarian in a lot of ways still, you know, I really don't want to bother other people. But I, I left after a drug policy conference that I went to that really kind of changed my thinking on the world. And at it, they explained the libertarian position on drug policy, which is kind of America's position on drug policy, which is, it's the drug addict's fault. Like, people get addicted to drugs, that's their problem, that's their fault. And it's kind of the demand explanation for the drug epidemic. It's like, we have a lot of drugs because people

• 1:23:53Tucker Carlson?

  want a lot of drugs in this country. It's not Mexico or China's fault, or the drug dealers.

• 1:23:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, the, the, the, um, yeah, the desire for it. Like, yeah. And, and that's what Mexico says. It's like, if you people didn't want it so badly, maybe, you know, it's, it's

• 1:24:06Tucker Carlson?

  And I thought, you know, that makes sense. I mean, it's kind of like one of those lines you hear. They're like, yeah, that sounds right. And then you think of your own life, and then you think of the people you know, who got, you know, tragically fucked up or killed by drugs. And of course, I know a lot of them. And you think, no, actually, like, some of them are like your mom, super healthy person, obviously a distance runner, the healthiest person, like in America, you know, are distance runners. And she has an injury and some doctor gives her a drug and she becomes an addict.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And my, and my dad, literally, one time, he went into the office and he grabbed the guy by, like, threw him up against the wall. He's like, you're poisoning my fucking wife.

• 1:24:46Tucker Carlson?

  Good for your dad.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and, um,

• 1:24:48Tucker Carlson?

  I should say, your parents, such a beautiful, you told me off camera, are still married, which is so

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Married, married for, married for 40 plus years. And, uh,

• 1:24:57Tucker Carlson?

  That's incredible.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  And, uh, yeah, they, yeah, they're in love. I mean, they're a true, a genuine

• 1:25:02Tucker Carlson?

  That is a really, that's, that's the best part of this whole story.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  And the reason, well, just really quickly, the reason my dad fell in love with my mom, like, at first sight, was because he said she was the only woman in New York he saw that was wearing a crucifix, like, that he'd seen in New York. So he's like, he's like, yeah, she's the one.

• 1:25:18Tucker Carlson?

  They sound like great people.

• 1:25:20Speaker 02

  Oh, you would love, you would love my dad.

• 1:25:21Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I can tell. I can tell. I'd like to throw a few doctors against the wall myself. But, okay, so then there's that. And then there's your story, which is like insecure high school kid. Like, how many high school kids are not insecure?

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:34Tucker Carlson?

  Zero. Like, there's feelings that you described, like, I don't quite fit in, I don't know if I'm cool or not. Every single kid has that feeling at 15. So you're not unique in that way. And someone's like, hey, try this. And then you become like a crazed, you know, needle dependent heroin addict and your pepper spraying members of the Mexican mafia and almost getting killed. So like within a year. Yeah. So that suggests to me that what we have is a supply problem, not a demand problem. Like you're in it, you know, you probably would have been happy with Bud Light or Coors Light or whatever.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:06Tucker Carlson?

  And instead you wind up on heroin because you had access to this drug.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:12Tucker Carlson?

  So if you take a hundred people and give them heroin every day for a month, like what percentage become junkies? Like, well, all of them.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:19Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:26:20Tucker Carlson?

  It was, I was just thinking this at this drug policy conference and I was like, actually, you're all liars. Probably getting paid by Purdue Pharma to lie. And it's the Cato Institute and they're definitely liars. I can say that now, but I didn't understand it until, because this is the one topic I knew something about, having lived it. But, um, like, what is the answer to this problem that kills over 100,000 people a year?

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Like from like a, from like a government perspective?

• 1:26:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, like what are we, it seems like we're paying addicts to use drugs. That's kind of my perspective.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think that one, one thing we should not be doing is what California is, is doing and trying to do setup like little, basically porter pot, porter potties for addicts to go in and, you know, use and, you know, um, like little centers with clean needles and all that stuff. And I get it.

• 1:27:10Tucker Carlson?

  Why would you encourage people to shoot heroin?

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Exactly. You don't coddle and, and, um, enable drug addicts. You, that is the worst thing you can do because they're just going to continue using and heroin is not a drug that you can use, uh, like, and, and like, it's not like a, you know, because there's a lot of functional alcoholics and functional, you know, uh, people who, you know, are on like, you know, Valium or whatever, you know, they're kind of pill, pill poppers that, that, you know, you would never know. But, um, yeah, heroin, I just, I've never seen anyone who doesn't, it doesn't become a lifestyle. It's not, it's not like a, a side thing, you know, or hobby or whatever. It is your life. It is all consuming.

• 1:27:54Tucker Carlson?

  What destroys you as a human being.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Tucker Carlson?

  And same with meth.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it meth, like inside and out too. Heroin doesn't quite like do the damage to your like your Outwardly. complexion, yeah outwardly, but like inwardly, it's I think it's worse. But um but meth is yeah, absolutely terrible. Were you around a lot of meth people? Oh, yeah. And so in Northern California, um, so because we moved to Northern California after um, when I was when I was 18, I remember my dad came down to San Diego because I was in rehab in San Diego and he picked me up and we drove north. To where? To the Bay Area, uh, to um, the East Bay. We lived in Concord. Yeah, yeah. Um, and uh, because my grandmother lived in Lafayette. Yep, I know it.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  And uh, she was uh, Those were nice towns. I don't know if they still are, but they were. Well, uh, Concord has been kind of been taken over by, there's a lot of gang activity. Oh, God! Uh, and like, like, and it borders Clayton too. So they're like, I think they're probably going to do something about it because Clayton's like a really nice area. So they're probably going to start cracking down more because, you know, the the rich people are being affected. So now it's a problem, you know? Uh, um, and uh, so yeah, so we moved up there and again, I started associating with the worst of the worst, uh, that just, you know, gang banging meth heads. And I'd never tried meth before. And uh, I remember I was just at this guy's house and he pulls out a pipe, like, alright, yeah, try it. See what the see what the fuss is about.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  Um, and I I like I So you're an open minded young man.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, so you know, I I didn't necessarily love it. It wasn't this like, oh, yeah, I need this. But my but but like my became my best friend was a was a dealer. So he always had it. So it's like, I would always just, yeah, take it like a puff or two. There was one point where I stayed up for 12 days straight and then slept for eight hours and stayed up for another um, sort of total of 17 days. So, yeah, another five days. Um, and because doing heroin and meth, it's like, like meth, when you're like, uh, basically like, you know, you're up for a day or two, you start to get weird seeing shadow people and shit like that.

• 1:30:16Speaker 02

  Then you do heroin and it's like, it's like resets you almost. Uh, it's kind of like, it's like you, it's like almost like you slept a little bit and your brain's like back to Normal and it's not going into crazy mode. I have seen meth heads, like, I remember this one story. Uh, so I was, uh, we were at this girl's house in her garage. And it was, uh, myself, um, my, our dealer and this chick. And she had, you know, just all over her face, scratching it from scratching. She, she looked like terrifying. Um, I'd been kicked out of my house, so we were just chilling there. You know, we're just going, you know, from place to place, trying to, you know, find a spot to, you know, kick it and rest or whatever.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  And so we're smoking in there for like three, four hours. And, uh, her and, uh, my friend go into the bathroom or inside her house, inside her house. And, um, I just kinda like sit back and I end up like falling asleep and I didn't realize. I was like, I woke up and I was like, I had no idea how long I'd been asleep. Like 30 seconds, 30 minutes, whatever. And there was no one in the garage. So I like knock on the garage, um, and I knock garage door, kinda peek my head in. I'm like, hey, what are you guys doing? And, uh, she comes out, she's like, close the door. I'm like, okay. And then she comes out and she's like, what the, what the are you doing in my, uh, in my house? My kids are in there. And I'm like, oh my God, you have kids?

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  And, uh, she's like, yeah, what, what'd you steal? What did you steal? And I'm like, I didn't steal anything. And then she pulls out a handgun.

• 1:31:49Tucker Carlson?

  Oh my God.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, it's this switch that flips for some people. It's never happened to me, but this, uh, uh, flip that switches and you, they just become in a totally different irrational, dangerous human being. And, uh, so, so this woman has a gun pointed at me and she's like, I want, she's like, empty your pockets, blah, blah, blah. And I, I, I went like this and pulled out like, you know, I was like, look, I didn't steal anything from you. What would I steal? I poked my head into your place for two seconds. And I'm like, by the way, uh, if you have your kids sleeping in there, you're kind of a shitty mom, you know? Cause I'm like-

• 1:32:25Tucker Carlson?

  So you insult the lady with the gun pointed at you?

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  Cause I was thinking-

• 1:32:28Tucker Carlson?

  Another, if I can just ask you to pause, Chris, another unwise decision.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. But I was thinking, I was like, this woman isn't going to pull the trigger. It was a neighborhood that the houses were like right next to each other. The police station was like down the street.

• 1:32:42Tucker Carlson?

  So you're betting that the meth head is rational?

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  I don't know what I was thinking. I was just angry and I was high too. So you know, I'm not exactly in the best, you know, decision-making frame of mind. But anyways, so she's like, she's like, "Take your fucking clothes off. I want to make sure you didn't steal anything." I'm like, "Fuck you." Sorry. Yeah, no, no, please. I'm like, "Fuck you. You're out of your fucking mind." I was like, "I didn't steal a fucking thing from you." You like, I was like, "You're not gonna shoot me. So how about you just let us fucking leave?" And so, and I'm like, and I'm, and I'm looking at my friend and I'm like, "Dude." And he's just standing there. Like, this guy was a, a piece of work. So that night, so, so she's like, "All right, get the fuck out of here." And she opens her garage up for us.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  And we leave, and my friend calls an Uber. And the Uber, like, her phone died in the middle of the ride. And so, like, the trip got canceled. And so, the woman who was driving us was like, "Get out, get out of my car right now." And we were like, still like a couple of miles from our destination, his sister's house. And he, and I was like, "Oh shit." And he's like, "Oh, don't worry. I have a spot we can go to." And I'm like, "Okay." And so, we walk up the street, and there's this house. And he's like, "Yeah."

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  I forget who he said owned it, but he's like, "Yeah, it's cool if we crash here." And he tries to open the front door. It's not locked. He's like, "All right, let me go around the back." And he's like, rummaging around, he's rummaging around in the backyard. And I'm standing in the front, just sitting on the steps, because I didn't think there was anything sketchy. And this car drives by and it kind of slows down. And then it keeps going. And I'm like, "Huh, that was weird." And then it loops back and then stops. And I was like, "Oh shit." So I had a backpack with me. I grabbed my backpack, hopped the fence into the backyard. And I was like, "Hey dude, someone's here." And he takes off.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  And I'm running and I, it's like, it's four, it's like four in the morning in Northern California in the winter. And I'm running and it's pitch black and I fall into a pool.

• 1:35:02Speaker 02

  This is like one of the worst nights of my life. And I was in, and I was in a low-key opiate withdrawal too, on top of all of that.

• 1:35:08Tucker Carlson?

  On top of the meth and the crazy girl pointing the gun at you.

• 1:35:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and that's why I was so irritable and probably if I, yeah, if I had been, you know, i- i- if I was on heroin, it probably would have gone down a lot differently, but I probably wouldn't have been as aggressive, but I was so, you know, ticked off. And so, uh, I, uh, fall in the pool.

• 1:35:29Speaker 02

  I see flashlights like coming towards us and this guy has al- has already booked it like over, um, over a fence and he's gone, like he is gone. Um, and so I, I like, I, um, get out of the pool and I try to climb the fence and I still have my backpack on and, you know, like soaking wet and I couldn't climb, it was too heavy. So I just shed the backpack and just hop the fence and I'm running down this hill and, um, and I run face first into a, um, chain link fence and.

• 1:36:03Tucker Carlson?

  It's like a dream sequence.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  And, um, and my face is like, you know, so now my face is bleeding and my hands are bleeding from climbing the fence and like, I, and, uh, I don't have any shoes on and, um, so, and so I am just so cold and so miserable and so I, there was a, like a hill and then there was a grocery store, kind of a little strip mall type place. And so I go down there and I look for the sketchiest person possible, like, you know, just.

• 1:36:36Tucker Carlson?

  You can tell.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, yeah, they're my, using my radar and, uh, and I was like, hey, man, can I use your phone to call a taxi? Cause I knew if I asked any normal person, they saw me with blood on my face and no shoes on, they'd be like, uh, get the fuck away from me, sir, please. Um, but, uh, no, they were, uh, they were really nice. They, um, let me use their phone and I called a taxi, jumped into the taxi. I was like, please turn the heat up as high as you can. And I, uh, went home and.

• 1:37:07Speaker 02

  At first, my parents weren't gonna let me in. And I was like, listen, I'm probably gonna get hypothermia if you don't let me in, please. I was like, I will do whatever you want. I will go anywhere. I just, please. And I remember going into their room and just wrapping myself up in a giant blanket. And I was like, I'd never felt so relieved in my life.

• 1:37:28Tucker Carlson?

  Did you ever figure out who was chasing you?

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  I think it was someone who, like, because the house, it turns out the house was for rent. And it was, there was no one in it. And so, of course, I didn't know that. He said, yeah, this is a spot that we can go to. I just assumed it was another dope fiend's place. And, yeah, all that. And, you know, one thing that really breaks my heart is, like, it's really the, yeah, one of the most, I'd say, difficult things that I had to accept that I did was, because my dad would, from time to time, figure out where I was and go to these,

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  you know, these crack houses and places like that and beg me to come home. And I remember one time specifically, he said, please, please, Chris, please come home. Like, your family loves you, please. In tears. And my dad doesn't cry.

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  And I was just like, no. And he's like, okay, well, at least take. And he gave me his crucifix and Saint Christopher medal. I still, I broke the chain, but I still have them to this day. And, gosh, even then, it tore me up, you know, because I just wasn't ready to stop. And I didn't know, like, you know, I didn't want to cause this pain that, you know, and suffering that my parents were feeling. And so I drowned it out with this more use and, you know, to try to...

• 1:39:13Tucker Carlson?

  You can see how that happens.

• 1:39:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:15Tucker Carlson?

  So when you quit...

• 1:39:18Tucker Carlson?

  2016, how long did it take to get back your equilibrium for your brain to start functioning as it had before you started using opioids?

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  Um, honestly, I don't know that it will, it, it has ever gotten back to where it was before, but I think that it, it took about, I would say like nine months to a year to like get like the, like to get the fog out and like, you know, have like, cause like my memory was shot, just everything was like depleted. And so in order to get, you know, to get those receptors and everything firing again, to get my brain back to where it needed to be. Yeah. I just, um, it was hard.

• 1:40:02Tucker Carlson?

  What are the long-term, longer-term effects?

• 1:40:06Speaker 02

  Um, I would say, I'd say memory loss is definitely a thing. Um, equilibrium, like I have a very bad equilibrium. Like people think I'm drunk sometimes because I'll like stumble, but it's just like, no, I'm just, yeah, my equilibrium's off. And, uh, I mean, obviously, you know, long-term, like things like anxiety, you know, you know, it's ironic because a lot of people use heroin to treat their anxiety and, um, but it causes, you know, again, it's the rebound effect. Um, and, uh, so yeah, anxiety, depression, um, just, yeah, a myriad of bad things.

• 1:40:45Tucker Carlson?

  I have known, you know, people addicted to opioids and have heard that it affects your ability to feel happiness once you're off it?

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. I would say that, yeah, I didn't, I always, and I, you know, and, and even to this day, like have this kind of sense sometimes of like imposter syndrome. Like I like, you know, you know, for example, like getting a, a job in Congress, working for Matt Gaetz and having Matt Gaetz compliment me and tell me and say all these nice things about me. It's like,

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  I don't feel like I deserve this praise, you know, I mean, sure, I'm a like, I'm a decent person, but yeah, I it's like, I it took me a while to just understand that like, yeah, I am worthy of these, I have achieved a lot, I have been, you know, sure, I've done a lot of bad things, but I've done everything I can to try to, you know, repair the damage that I caused.

• 1:41:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  And so like, so no, I deserve, you know, it's just, it's hard to force yourself to, you know, accept like, yeah, you're like, you're doing well, like, just be, yes, you were, you were as bad as it could get, but you've turned it around. And like, you know, I was, I was kind of nervous about this interview, but then I was like, and I was talking to my dad and he's like, Chris, you stopped using heroin, you can do an interview.

• 1:42:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:42:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's true.

• 1:42:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I mean, yeah, you know, it was, um, and again, like, I go back to the intrinsic motivation, it's just so important to want to level up in life. And I think that like, you know, I kind of compare it to like, the whole body positivity movement, it's like, yeah, you're 40 pounds, and I'm not talking about people with like, medical issues or anything, but like, you're 40 pounds overweight, no, you're perfect just the way you are, it's like, no, put the donut down, go to the gym, like, you know, stop, stop coddling people who are, you know, who have a food addiction.

• 1:42:39Tucker Carlson?

  Encouraging people to destroy themselves is the way I think about it.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43Tucker Carlson?

  Right, only, only people who are filled with hate would do that, I don't care what they dress it up as, if you're encouraging someone to hurt himself, you hate that person, right?

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it seems so.

• 1:42:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, obviously.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Tucker Carlson?

  If you did that to your kids, here, get type 2 diabetes, here, become a junkie, you would be a terrible parent, but you would be acting of hate for your kids, obviously.

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, sinister, it's, um.

• 1:43:08Tucker Carlson?

  It is sinister.

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  And, uh, you know, that's why, you know, like, you know, you see all these like, Victoria's Secret plus size, you know, it's like, and again, you shouldn't, you shouldn't do, you shouldn't want to better yourself, you know, for societal acceptance, but for your own sense of, you know, happiness and well-being and purpose, because you talk to any person who's overweight, you know, and like, again, without medical conditions, um, like, obviously, they're gonna say, yes, I would prefer to be, prefer to lose a few pounds, I mean, I would assume, I've never talked to every obese, I haven't talked to every obese person on the planet, but the ones that I have talked to, yeah, I would like-

• 1:43:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they're tormented by it, of course. They're tormented by it. You don't feel good.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  And, and, and, and, and, yeah, and like Victoria's Secret and these other places trying to tell them, "Oh yeah, you're perfectly fine. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't change anything." It's like, no.

• 1:43:57Tucker Carlson?

  It's evil, obviously. Let's just call it what it is. All these things are, they're-

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  Big Pharma, yeah, I think-

• 1:44:02Tucker Carlson?

  A bedding the destruction of human beings, and that's, that's the worst thing you can do in this life, in my opinion.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Uh, Big Pharma is the closest thing to like, you know, like, i- if you just want to talk about pure evil, like getting into the realm of demonically sick, Big Pharma is, I think, the prime example, what they've done to this country.

• 1:44:23Tucker Carlson?

  I couldn't agree more. Chris, thank you for spending all this time and for being so totally honest about your story. I never say, "I hope this helps people," because it feels like so banal, but I do hope this helps people.

• 1:44:33Speaker 02

  Thank you. I appreciate it, Tucker.

• 1:44:35Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.

• 1:44:40Tucker Carlson?

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