Pod Insights The Tucker Carlson Show BREAKING: Tucker and Doug Macgregor React to Proposed Ceasefire Deal Between Ukraine and Russia About this episode The Mexican drug cartels are a far greater threat to the United States than China, Russia or Iran, says Doug Macgregor. They’ve got Javelin missile systems on our border, and American officials on their payroll.
(00:00) The Ukrainian Drone Strike in Moscow
(13:10) Benjamin Netanyahu Wants War With Iran
(18:27) Ukraine’s Black Market Arms Dealing
(23:00) How Many Have Died in the Ukraine/Russia War?
(40:02) Can Europe Be Saved?
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Transcript 13,400 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:30 Tucker Carlson? It feels like we're on the brink of something really catastrophic. I kind of can't shake that feeling. And by catastrophic, I mean some kind of global war. Hope that's not true. But let's just start with what just happened, which is a drone attack on Moscow by the Ukrainians that killed a number of Russians in Moscow.
0:58 Tucker Carlson? Who did that, why, and what are its effects?
1:23 Speaker 02 Well, that's an important question. I think the Russians are disappointed in us because they detect that we're sincere in terms of wanting to end this conflict.
1:34 Tucker Carlson? Trump is sincere. I mean, that's true.
1:36 Speaker 02 But they don't understand why he does not act to remove this regime, remove this man Zelensky and put a stop to it. There's this constant drumbeat about a ceasefire. Well, the Russians are highly organized and disciplined. They can stop whenever it makes sense to do so. The Ukrainians are not in the same category. They seem to be a rogue organization now. You know, we've got, what, 200,000 of them here in the United States, and I don't know how many thousands of them are working for the SBU, the Ukrainian secret police. They're now running around threatening everyone that has criticized Ukraine or opposed to support for Ukraine.
2:15 Tucker Carlson? And Alex Jones staffer was just murdered two days ago, who was on some list put together by the Ukrainian government or supporters of critics. He was murdered outside of his house. I mean, I don't think it's crazy to think, given the number of assassinations they've pulled off or attempted, that he was killed by them. You think that's possible?
2:32 Speaker 02 Well, I would be very worried about our president. You know, I think the president's very much at risk, and these people seem to know no sense of limitation. They're capable of anything. So I hope the Secret Service is on its toes. I'm sure Cash Patel is well aware of this in the FBI. I just don't have any good feelings right now about the Ukrainians. I think they're done, they're finished, they've lost the war. So all of these are sort of acts of vengeance, if you will, last resort. Hurl whatever you have as deep as you can into Russia and just kill, murder, maim as many Russians as possible.
3:11 Tucker Carlson? But what, to what end?
3:12 Speaker 02 Well, to harm Russians and then try to create the illusion that there is some hope for them, that they can somehow or another mobilize more manpower and put more forces into the field. They can't. They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I think the issue right now is the following. The Russians have the initiative, strategic initiative. This war is effectively at an end, as far as they're concerned, in terms of having won it. They now have to make some decisions. So you have to put yourself not so much in the place of Zelensky. He's irrelevant. The Russians are not surprised by what he's done. I think they're surprised that we haven't intervened to try and stop it. That's what
3:55 Speaker 02 I think they're surprised about. So what they want now, the Russians, is an end to this nonsense. They have several options. They now have concentrations of forces in the northeastern part of Ukraine and down in the southeastern part. They can move at will at any time. They have enough force, they can cross in Kherson, they can take Odessa. They can move forward and straight into Kiev.
4:21 Speaker 02 Whatever they do, they have to ask themselves, how far do we want to go to guarantee our security as Russians? And they have never really wanted to go very far. That's never been the intent. But over time, they've been pushed more and more and more to secure more territory to protect themselves. This latest act is probably convincing Russians that they should go straight to the Dnieper River, cross into Kiev, root out this regime, root and branch, cross down south and take Odessa, and turn, rump Ukraine into a landlocked country. I'm sure there are people who are arguing for that. There are other Russians who are saying, to hell with this. Let's just crush Ukraine, once and for all.
5:05 Speaker 02 This is a permanent cancer. It's not going to go away. People from the West are always going to try and go in and incite them. So, let's march to the Romanian and Polish borders, ride to Moldova, and be done with this. In the middle of this, it's President Putin. And President Putin is nothing if not a very judicious person. He's a very thoughtful person. This is someone who does not act impulsively. I'm sure you saw that.
5:32 Tucker Carlson? I have.
5:32 Speaker 02 Everything is calculated. So he's going to sit there and say, what do I want to do? What, what makes the most sense for Russia? Set aside the emotion. And he also knows President Trump. And he says, President Trump wants an end to this, so do I. How do I nudge President Trump and say, help us? We want to end this just as much as you do. Help us a little bit. Can't you rid us of this man, Zelensky, and this little MI6 CIA-supported cabal that surrounds him? Can't you help us with this? But on the other hand, he's looking at his people, and they're saying, don't depend on anything the West promises. Don't believe anything the West says.
6:14 Speaker 02 So, march to the Dnieper, cross the river, end this once and for all. This is the decision point. It's a strategic inflection point in the history of Europe. Because you now have a Russian leader with the power, with the capability to do anything he wants. But this is a Russian who doesn't want to march west. He doesn't want to rule Ukrainians. He's not a fool. He knows those people don't want to be ruled by Russians. So it's a difficult position, but he, he has to end it. And there's the other dangers. Who knows what comes next? You know, they killed this Russian general. Who had a very prominent role and his name escapes me right now, but he was killed recently.
6:55 Speaker 02 He had a very prominent role in identifying the attempts by the Ukrainians to build a dirty bomb. And also to launch attacks on the nuclear power plants. He knows there are people over there capable of that kind of lunacy. So that also has to figure into his calculus.
7:12 Tucker Carlson? It's gotta be one of the most evil governments in the world.
7:15 Speaker 02 It is. Well, look at what they've done to their own people. I mean, how many of these Ukrainians have died needlessly? The handwriting was on the wall two years ago. Why would you drag this thing out? And Putin has not wanted to drag it out, but he has also not wanted to give people in the West the impression that he's interested in doing anything more than removing the Ukrainian menace. In other words, he's not interested in conquest, doesn't want to march west. I mean, how many times can he and Lavrov say this nonsense? And shut up and Applebaum and the rest of these.
7:50 Tucker Carlson? Why does Anne Applebaum have any effect on anything? I mean, this is like one of the dumbest people in the United States. I don't understand.
7:56 Speaker 02 Well, she's also married to the Polish Foreign Minister. And right now, the latest poll says that 86% of the Polish population opposes any Polish participation in a war against Russia. So, and even Tusk has said, if you think we're joining some sort of contingent to go into Western Ukraine, forget it, we're not going. So I think this whole facade is crumbling.
8:20 Tucker Carlson? Is there any European population, so there are many European leaders who have suggested, some have said out loud, others have hinted that they're going to send troops to fight Putin?
8:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's absurd.
8:29 Tucker Carlson? Is there any European population that wants that?
8:32 Speaker 02 No, not a chance. I mean, the British are probably the furthest from Russia. And they all know what their army consists of today. It's a, it's a bad facsimile of what was there 200 years ago. It goes back to Bismarck's famous remark in 1879. He was asked by a British journalist, what would you do if the British army landed on the North German coast? He said, well, I'd have it arrested. Everyone was upset, but he was right. The British Army was about the size that it is now. And the German Army at that point numbered, what, four, six hundred thousand? With a capacity to mobilize millions. So this is all nonsense.
9:17 Speaker 02 The same thing is nonsensical in France. All my friends in the French military, and I've got several, have told me, Douglas, this is absurd. You know, the only thing the French Army is prepared for is to go on safari in Africa.
9:28 Tucker Carlson? Yeah, and they're pulling out of there.
9:30 Speaker 02 And of course they're pulling out. This is a waste of time, money, and resources, all of it. The issue for Donald Trump is as follows, and I think this is what's most important for him to keep in mind. And he, his instincts are good. If he follows his instincts, he'll be fine. He's just stopped listening to the people around him. Number one, any war that breaks out today involving the United States and Russia, and whether or not Russia, we want it to be involved, Russia is involved in the Middle East. Russia is involved in Eastern Europe. Whatever happens, the war will expand. We will end up with multiple enemies arrayed against us. China, BRICS in general, and certainly Iran and other states in the Middle East.
10:14 Speaker 02 So the first thing is, all wars will expand. So don't start one under any circumstances. It will expand out of control. The second thing is, he's going to discover the hard way that we are grossly overstretched and overextended. The military, the American military establishment is in no position to fight any kind of long war. Remember, we used to talk about the long war that we were supposed to fight? That was all nonsense. If you look at all of the simulations that involve us against Iran, or us against any number of great powers, they all end in two weeks. Well, why does the war end in two weeks? Because in two weeks, we've exhausted everything that we've got.
10:57 Speaker 02 There's no more ammunition, there are no more missiles, no more rockets. I would say, in truth, right now, it's closer to one week, maybe 10 days. And we don't have this scientific industrial base with manufacturing capability that is humming along 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We can't match Russia, a nation of what, 140 million? Imagine that economic base producing in China.
11:22 Speaker 02 China is in a position today that we were in during World War II and in the aftermath. We were the productivity giant across the world. That's China. You can't go to war with these people. You'll be buried by them with conventional weapons and ammunition. And anyone who thinks a nuclear exchange makes sense deserves to be shipped off to the nearest asylum. And I think Trump understands that. So those first two things, anything that we do expands out of control. Secondly, we're overstretched, overextended. Our forces are tired. They're very exhausted. The naval forces in particular have a lot of problems. Not just them, but you know, they're the ones that are sitting out there on the front line right now.
12:07 Speaker 02 And then on top of that, you have the air force. And the air force cannot field thousands and thousands of fighters and bombers. You know, we lost 18,000 bombers trying to penetrate German air defenses during World War II. We and the Royal Air Force, 18,000 bombers. Air defenses today in Iran are substantial and they are capable. These are the, this is the S-400. They are layered with multiple kinds of missiles over a vast area and radars. We are going to lose aircraft. No one knows how many because we've never fought our way through it. But we don't have thousands to lose. So in an attrition setting, we can't win.
12:50 Speaker 02 And unfortunately, when you're 6,000 miles away from home, it's attrition. You can't replace rapidly. You can't reload rapidly. You can't resupply rapidly. Logistically, it's a disaster. Then finally, you see what's happened in the market recently. Dropped 900 points. What do you think happens if there's a war in the Middle East or in Eastern Europe? It'll just intensify the sell-off. Everything tanks. All confidence will be lost. No one in their right mind at this point should be talking about a war. We should be talking about disengagement. And Zelensky frankly, the way he was treated, I think President Trump was far too gentle.
13:31 Speaker 02 I'm surprised that two giant Secret Service agents did not come in, pick him up and remove him from the office. But the way he handled Zelensky is the way he's got to handle Netanyahu. Because if he doesn't, Netanyahu will drag him into the abyss. Because he wants this war in the Middle East, come hell or high water. And it's not in our interest.
13:54 Tucker Carlson? What war?
13:55 Speaker 02 The war with Iran, the war with everybody. I mean, you've seen these settings where Netanyahu sits at the table and he's got everybody around him in his cabinet. And he says, this is our opportunity to settle with everyone. We're fighting on five fronts. No, we're fighting on seven fronts. And he starts ticking off, you know, everyone from the Houthis to the militias in Iraq and Syria, and now Iran, and so forth. If you look at the map today, he's trying to occupy Syria all the way up to the edge of Damascus. And Erdogan, who is a very clever but slippery character, has already said, forget it. We're not going to tolerate that in southern Syria.
14:39 Speaker 02 So he's pushing the envelope to the very edge. In Damascus, there are three great Islamic cities in the region. One is Cairo, the other is Jerusalem, and then Damascus. They're not going to surrender Damascus to the Israelis. So whatever happens, the Turks will eventually become involved. They'll march in.
14:58 Tucker Carlson? So, I mean, that creates a kind of structural problem because Turkey is a member of NATO.
15:04 Speaker 02 I don't think so. Because I don't think, I don't think NATO matters.
15:09 Tucker Carlson? Maybe you're right.
15:10 Speaker 02 I don't think it has for a long time.
15:12 Tucker Carlson? Well, it matters in a material sense. We just used the name NATO to wage a war against Russia for three years that we lost.
15:20 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:20 Tucker Carlson? So, but that would be the end of NATO, right?
15:24 Speaker 02 What we're talking about will end everything that we're accustomed to, the rules-based order, which just means our global hegemony in military and economic terms. Everyone in BRICS is now being forced together. We're forcing cohesion on BRICS as an alternative to our financial system, which we use to bully everybody. So that that's all that BRICS is about, but now BRICS is going to become increasingly militarized. Because we're seeing is this rogue state that is willing to put everything at risk in order to retain its position of dominance. That's catastrophic for us. We don't want to go down that road. And that's why I think most of us voted for President Trump.
16:07 Speaker 02 We saw him as someone who would say no and diverge from that path. But we don't know right now. It's not clear. He has not made it clear what he wants. He has said he wants a settlement with Russia. He wants normalization with Russia. Okay, if you really want that, you've got to act in a way that demonstrates conclusively that you support that. That means end all the military aid right now to the Ukrainians. Period, done. Number two, get all of the Americans out of Ukraine immediately. Everybody, intelligence, civilians, contractors. I mean, this has been another contracting ban in Ukraine, just as Afghanistan was.
16:48 Tucker Carlson? And Iraq.
16:49 Speaker 02 End that.
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19:10 Tucker Carlson? So, most people don't wake up in the morning and decide to feel horrible, exhausted, foggy, disconnected from themselves. But it does happen, and it happens slowly. You're working hard, you're showing up, and then your energy disappears by midday. Your focus is dull, your weight won't move. A lot of people are told, "That's just getting old." That's what it is. But that's not actually true. For many men and women, these are not personal fears. They are signals tied to your metabolism, your hormones, and nutrient imbalances that go into detected for years you don't even know you're deficient. And that's why we're happy to partner with Joy and Blokes, a company that was built for people who are all done guessing and ready to figure out what exactly is going on. And that starts with comprehensive lab work and a one-on-one consultation with a licensed
19:55 Tucker Carlson? clinician. An actual human being explains what's happening inside you and builds a personalized plan, which includes hormone optimization, peptide therapy, targeted supplements. So, don't settle. Go to joyandblokes.com/tucker. Use the code TUCKER for 50% off your lab work and 20% off all supplements. That's joyandblokes.com/tucker. Use the code TUCKER. 50% off labs, 20% off supplements. Joy and Blokes. Get your edge back. One of the things you need to do is account for the weapons that you shipped over there and the bio labs that you built there. And so Ukraine, Ukrainian military's been selling, I think everyone's aware of this,
20:36 Tucker Carlson? it's true, a large percentage of these weapons onto international arms markets and they've wound up with some of the worst people in the world and destabilized the world. But there's been no attempt by any agency in the US government that I'm aware of to keep track of where they are. And moreover, the CIA has lied about that. So.
20:59 Speaker 02 Well, Tucker, let's face it, the CIA is a black hole. We don't really know what goes into it and we're not really sure what comes out of it other than destruction. You know, wherever the CIA dabbles and moves in, we end up with subversion, revolution, disintegration. That's everything we touch, literally. That's why it was such a stroke of genius to get rid of USAID. USAID was helping to fund all the nonsense along with National Endowment for Democracy. Thank God for those things. But I, you know, I don't know about the gentleman Radcliffe who is in charge of the CIA. I don't know what his march orders are, but we have a very serious problem over there.
21:42 Speaker 02 This has been operating for a very long time in isolation from any accountability and any real oversight. So that, that needs to be stripped down to the bare bolts and find out what's really happening over there. Everybody talks about the Epstein files and all these kinds of things. I'm sure it'd be nice to know the truth about all of that, but there's much worse going on in the CIA globally and we need to put a stop to it. But these are actions that we have to take not just for ourselves, but to demonstrate to the rest of the world that we're serious. We want an end to these conflicts. We're not interested in waging war in everybody else's country. We're not interested in planting new governments that are puppet regimes in other people's
22:27 Speaker 02 countries. That's what it's about. That's what we've got to do. If we don't do that, we're going to eventually be dragged into a confrontation with a substantial portion of the world.
22:39 Tucker Carlson? And then we don't prevail.
22:41 Speaker 02 Of course not, of course not. But keep in mind, what about the American people? There's nobody here. We walk outside, find anybody who says, well, you know, there's a train leaving, you know, for Ukraine. You can get all your equipment, draw it right there in the train station, get on and go and fight Ukraine. See how many people show up. Oh, well, why don't we bomb Iran? Would you like to be part of the strike package? We have a seat for you in a B2 and you can watch the bombs go off. Would you like to do that? Nobody wants to do that. There's no interest in this country in any of that crap. But people in this country are damn well interested in what's happening on the Mexican border, and I just spent three days down there. And they're damn well interested
23:22 Speaker 02 in what's happening in Mexico, because they know that that is a cesspool of barbarism, savagery, criminality. And that's our existential threat. Not China, not Russia, not Iran, not anywhere. We can manage those things. President Trump can manage those things. This thing down on the Mexican border is, is really at a boiling point. We need to understand that.
23:49 Tucker Carlson? Tell me, what does that mean?
23:51 Speaker 02 Well, what it means is that the cartels run everything. I mean, we hear about this President Shine bomb in Mexico. Forget it. You know, she controls what 40 square kilometers in Mexico City. This whole thing is an organized crime state. Everyone in Mexico knows the truth. You know, if you go to Mexico City, my, my oldest son was just down there for a month, and he speaks very fluent Spanish, and he was talking to lots of people, and he loved the place, loved Mexico City, loves Mexicans. But they'll tell you flat out, well, don't go there, and don't go here, and don't go there, and don't ride in this cab, and don't take this automobile. Don't go to that airport. Everybody, everybody knows the truth. Everybody knows who operates what, who controls what. And if you navigate through
24:35 Speaker 02 this maze of invested power of the cartels, you can survive. But if you accidentally cross into their territory, and are seen as a potential problem in any way, shape, or form, you're dead. But at the same time, you've got whole families of these cartels, people that work for them that are being treated for dental needs, medical problems, whatever it else. I mean, you join the cartel, you get free healthcare, you get all of this. It's bizarre, but it's real. And you pointed out, the weapons going down there are serious. I was down there and we talked to several people who are border patrolmen, also talked
25:18 Speaker 02 to some Texas Guard people and said, we just go 100 yards on the other side into Mexico and behind the ridge line over there, you'll see all the weapons, all the RPGs, the Javelin missile systems that have found their way to Mexico.
25:33 Tucker Carlson? Javelin missile?
25:34 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, yeah, we've got it. They've got those things over there.
25:37 Tucker Carlson? From Ukraine?
25:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, sure. Well, we sent over, I don't know how many, what, a thousand of them? And several hundred were captured by the Russians. And then I'm sure several were sold on the black market. I mean, about 50% of everything that showed up there ended up somewhere that didn't belong. Yeah, it's just one huge corrupt industry in Ukraine. And the longer we feed it cash, the worse it will get. So you've got to starve it of cash, starve it of ammunition, and end it. Ukrainian people will ultimately thank you for it. They've had enough. I don't care what various people say, they're tired of it.
26:16 Tucker Carlson? What do you think the actual losses are on both sides in that war?
26:19 Speaker 02 Uh, I think the Russians have lost, well, when they say Russians, let's put it this way, the Russians, 90 to 100,000 dead, they may have lost another 10 to 20,000 non-Russian from within the military establishment. And that's one of the great achievements, by the way, of President Putin, has been to weld this force together that includes large numbers of Muslim Turks, who are extremely competent fighters, very tough. In fact, The Chechen fighters are cleaning out Kursk right now, Kursk Oblast. Because the Ukrainians made a mistake. They hurled large numbers of drones down into Chechnya and killed a number of people and that just lit a fuse that is now exploding.
27:03 Tucker Carlson? Who'd wanna fight with Chechnya?
27:04 Speaker 02 I certainly don't. No normal man wants to fight the Turks.
27:08 Tucker Carlson? Right, I mean, there's two wars. I mean, I'm not an expert, but I sort of followed it in the news. So maybe not wanna mess with the Chechens at all.
27:16 Speaker 02 Never, ever. Absolutely not. And there's, there's a good, healthy relationship right now between the Muslims and the Orthodox Christians.
27:24 Tucker Carlson? Yes, I've noticed.
27:25 Speaker 02 It's, it's a very positive thing. He's done that very well. There's a lot to be learned from that. I, I think we could do something similar in some respects, but having said that, the problem is right now. A hundred thousand plus 10 to 20,000 of the others. That's about it. But on the Ukrainian side, I can certainly account through the various sources I trust for 1.2 million dead Ukrainian soldiers. Dead. There are those out there.
27:53 Tucker Carlson? She thinks it's 10 to 1.
27:54 Speaker 02 Oh, easily. And that's because over the last year.
27:58 Tucker Carlson? Well, that is just shocking.
28:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, but that, over the last year, that's, it's, it's grown. In other words, the losses have just tripled and quadrupled every day. You know, you, you've talked to people, you, you can watch people like Larry Johnson and Scott Ritter and others. They all have different numbers and different sources, but they all agree. 1.2 million is about right. There are some who think 1.5 billion is closer.
28:23 Tucker Carlson? Dead.
28:24 Speaker 02 Yes. And what happens at the end of wars?
28:27 Tucker Carlson? In a country of under 50 million, so about 25 million in the country now, I think, ish.
28:32 Speaker 02 There's, there's nothing left. That's why the notion that they can build anything now is, is ridiculous. And how many millions are overseas? What, 15 to 20 million have left the country? There are 2 million plus Ukrainians in Russia and probably 15 plus million in the West. And most of them have made it clear they have no intention of ever going back. So this, this is killed, for all intents and purposes, for the foreseeable future, the Ukrainian nation. But these things happen at the end of wars. Most of the Germans killed in the military towards the end of the Second World War were killed in the last nine months.
29:13 Speaker 02 Max Hastings wrote, wrote a book about it. I can't remember the exact title. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't a bad illustration of what was going on. When armies are retreating and they've lost their air and missile defense, they've lost their logistics. In other words, the units are breaking down because they can't feed themselves. They can't protect themselves. So it becomes not immediately every man for himself, but the units try to fight their way through to get back home. And that's what the Ukrainians have done. But as they're doing that, the problem today is with all of these unmanned systems and the surveillance that the Russians have, they can be killed in great numbers as they're running away, as they're leaving. And they're not running away because they're cowards.
29:57 Speaker 02 Nobody will tell you the Ukrainians are cowards. It's absolutely unacceptable. These are very brave, courageous people, just like the Russians. But they have no chance. And so they're being driven in front of the advancing Russians. And people say, well, why are the Russians advancing so slowly? Because from the very beginning, Putin has not wanted to kill large numbers of Orthodox Christian Slavs. It's not been his aim.
30:24 Tucker Carlson? Yeah, well, it's definitely the aim of the West.
30:26 Speaker 02 Oh my, look at these, uh, look at these, uh, bio labs. Isn't that pretty clear from what we've seen?
30:34 Tucker Carlson? It's pretty clear. And so if you take three steps back, I mean, Ukraine is not even, is not even the point. The point is destroying Putin and killing Russia and breaking it up.
30:46 Speaker 02 And if you kill large numbers of Ukrainians, I think for many of the people behind this, that was seen as collateral damage or even a bonus. I hate to, I hate to make, make that point.
30:55 Tucker Carlson? Well, I agree completely. I mean, killing, killing Christians around the world is the actual subtext to our foreign policy. Uh, someone just handed me this. Um, this is just out. Ukraine backs US proposal for 30-day ceasefire with Russia. I'm gonna read this to you if you don't mind. Ukraine, quote, "Expressed readiness to accept a US proposal for an immediate 30-day ceasefire with Russia," the two countries said in a joint statement after a key meeting between US and Ukrainian officials in Saudi Arabia. A ceasefire implemented would be a major diplomatic breakthrough. Da, da, da, da, da. Uh, this is Rubio, quote, the Secretary of State. "The ball is now in their court. We hope the Russians will reciprocate."
31:33 Tucker Carlson? The US agreed to lift its suspension on intelligence sharing with Ukraine and resume weapons shipments to the country which were paused 10 days ago.
31:44 Speaker 02 That makes no sense.
31:45 Tucker Carlson? After weeks of pressuring Ukrainians, the US side signaled the pressure is now on Russia. Quote, "If the Russians say no, we will know what the impediment is here," said Marco Rubio. National Security Advisor Mike Waltz said Ukraine not only accepted the US proposal, but also presented its principles for a comprehensive peace deal, which includes security guarantees that it requires. Waltz also made clear to his team that all fighting needs to stop, not just air and missile strikes. "Before we negotiate, we need to stop shooting at each other." That's what the president wanted to see, said Marco Rubio. The US and Ukraine also agreed to conclude as soon as possible, quote, "A comprehensive agreement for developing Ukraine's critical mineral resources."
32:27 Tucker Carlson? Wasn't clear if this meant that they would sign the deal that they'd been talking about. Steve Witkoff, President Trump's envoy, global envoy, is visiting Moscow on Thursday to meet with President Putin and discuss this. What's your response to that?
32:42 Speaker 02 Well, I think there's some positive things in there, but we're missing the boat with the Russians again. We don't understand that if Ukraine is going to be neutral, why are we continuing to supply it with weapons at this stage? It's the Ukrainians that have to stop fighting. The Russians will stop when they see evidence that the Ukrainian force is defeated or quits. That hasn't happened yet, not with these attacks that just occurred over Moscow. So the Russians are asking the question, you're the ones keeping this monster alive. You created the monster, the monster is fatally wounded, and you keep putting it on life support. Do you really want an end to this war? I mean, imagine if we were dealing with a similar enemy in Mexico, and we found out
33:27 Speaker 02 that the Russians and the Chinese had provided vast quantities of equipment and assistance to the Mexicans who were trying to fight us and regain control of the Southwest. And we defeated them and driven them back out of the country, and... They refuse to stop. They continue to fight. We say, well, if you want this war to end, tell them to stop fighting, put down their weapons and back out. And if they won't do that, then we have to do what? March into Mexico and crush them. I mean, this is the best analogy that I can come up with to make people understand what we're dealing with. So if you want, if you want normal, normalized relations with Russia, go back to what we
34:09 Speaker 02 said at the beginning. End the military support for this heinous regime. It's guilty of all sorts of terrible war crimes, anyway. All the things that Russia was accused of are things that the Ukrainians have done. So let's get out of this.
34:22 Tucker Carlson? Well, they tried to, you know, and they assassinated people. They tried to assassinate a couple of people I know personally well. Um, fact, not guessing. So, uh, you know, I consider that government, not the Ukrainians. I think the Ukrainians, as you said, are valiant and decent and an awful lot of them are Christians. I know a lot of Ukrainians. And I couldn't think more highly of them, but I think that their government is totally evil.
34:49 Speaker 02 Completely.
34:50 Tucker Carlson? And so here's the thinking, as far as I understand it, what do I know? But my strong sense is that the Trump White House wants an end to this war. The president campaigned on it. He thinks it's within his grasp. He also wants a more normalized relationship with Russia. He's, he grieves over Russia's now permanent alliance with China. He sees how bad that is. It's not fixable. But bringing Russia a little bit closer back to the West is a good thing. I think I'm describing his thinking fairly. But for the purposes of making a deal, the thought is that you can't make a deal from a position of weakness. And so you have to show your teeth in order to get the other side to come to better terms.
35:36 Tucker Carlson? That's the idea behind throwing more weapons to Ukraine. Well, how do you assess that?
35:40 Speaker 02 It's delusional. It's leading down the wrong path. If you want this to end, then stop it. You stop supplying it and get our people out of Ukraine. Make it very clear. We're out of this. No more, no more weapons, no more cash. We're finished. The British and the French can't come in and make up for that. Neither can the Germans. So that's all nonsense. You saw this Euro summit. They're gonna assemble what almost a trillion dollars to beef up defense in these countries. Good luck. I don't see that occurring in Europe at all. Because the average Europeans are saying, for what? They look at what's happening and they no longer believe this myth. The Russians are coming. The Russians are coming. You know, the Russians are coming. They're gonna be on I-95
36:23 Speaker 02 in northern Jersey tomorrow night. Come on, the Russians are coming.
36:26 Tucker Carlson? We have to kill them here. You hear Republicans say this all the time. Republican senators, really the worst group in the country, in my opinion, short of Antifa. But, you know, it's a really good deal for us because we're killing all these European Christians there so we don't have to kill them here. And they say that out loud.
36:45 Speaker 02 Well, they said that Lyndon Johnson was like, well, if we don't kill them here now in Vietnam, we're gonna be fighting them in Los Angeles. So we gotta get them now. Come on, that was ridiculous. I heard General Abizaid make the same stupid statement in 2004. Well, we have to kill these Islamist terrorists here in Iraq or we'll be fighting them in our own country. It's all crap. It's the same old set of lies. It's sort of like the perpetual neocon narrative. It's 1936. We all have to band together. There's another Hitlerite on the horizon. You know, this is, this is the standard sort of gruel that is pitched to the American people
37:28 Speaker 02 over and over and over again, in the Anglosphere in general, whether it's Great Britain, United States, or Australia. It's all nonsense. We gotta get past this and once, once and for all bury it. If we really want this to stop, this is not about winning or losing. I think that's another problem. You know, we gotta make sure this is a win for the president. A win for the president is an end to this war. Period. Number two, what are our interests in Ukraine? Tell me what they are. What are the strategic interests that justify intervention in that country?
38:05 Speaker 02 Time's up. There are none. We've never had any interest in Ukraine whatsoever. We wish them well. We want them to be happy and prosperous, but we have never had any interest in defending them against anybody, under any circumstances. We've got to get back to what's rational, not what's emotional. The president just needs to look at this and say, we, we need to stop this. And, and he, he can be a world historical figure. If he ends the carnage in Ukraine by simply saying, that's it, we're out. And then turns around to the Middle East and say, stop now. No more mass murder and expulsion of human
38:48 Speaker 02 beings from Gaza, or the West Bank, or anywhere else. If he's willing to do those things, he's a world historical figure. That's a dramatic sea change in the history, I would say, of the West, and probably of the world. But instead, what we get is, oh, we can't do that. We'll look weak. Sort of the argument that Kissinger made to Nixon. Well, we can't just leave Vietnam. Well, that's exactly what the hell we did, right? We left. So, no, we got to go into Cambodia to show them that we're strong. How many people did we lose in Cambodia needlessly?
39:23 Tucker Carlson? Yeah.
39:24 Speaker 02 It's the same mentality. Just, just be honest. This is over. And then tell the Europeans, these are people that we're supposedly allied with, that they need to sit down at the table with Moscow. And we're happy to be there. We'll sponsor it. We'll set them up.
39:41 Tucker Carlson? But they've gone so far in the other direction, like the, in the UK right now, even Nigel Farage, head of the Reform Party, which I think is the biggest party, doesn't have power, but it's by registration, the biggest party in Britain. And it's the counterbalance, both to the, you know, the crazed Labourites and the pathetic, castrated Tories.
40:03 Tucker Carlson? They they won't say that we should end the war in Ukraine. Even they won't. I mean, it's like there's nobody, there's no party that I'm aware of in all of Europe with power that will say that.
40:17 Speaker 02 Well, you said with power. There are plenty of parties out there advocating.
40:20 Tucker Carlson? There are.
40:21 Speaker 02 AFD, the Alternative Alternative für Deutschland, is not a far right party. I hear that all the time. Anything that challenges the status quo is also far right.
40:31 Tucker Carlson? Anything that Applebaum doesn't want.
40:33 Speaker 02 It's a bunch of nonsense. Yeah, they want an end to this. There's no question about it. None of this ever made sense for Germany, under any circumstances.
40:41 Tucker Carlson? Well, it destroyed Germany.
40:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, the Germans have destroyed Germany, not the Russians.
40:46 Tucker Carlson? Oh, I know.
40:47 Speaker 02 And the Russians have no interest in destroying Germany. It's the ruling classes in these countries. They're globalist and they need to be removed. And they will be removed. I'm confident that it will happen. The British have not had a real revolution since Cromwell. But I think they've reached the point now where they very much need a Cromwellian figure to clean house because the people ruling them are weak and inept.
41:13 Tucker Carlson? Do you see any path to that happening?
41:16 Speaker 02 I don't know. I don't know. I haven't been to Britain for many years.
41:20 Tucker Carlson? Really?
41:21 Speaker 02 No, I have not. I think the last time I was in Britain was 2005.
41:27 Tucker Carlson? Don't go. It'll make you too sad.
41:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, you're talking to somebody who worships the altar of English speaking civilization.
41:35 Tucker Carlson? Me too.
41:36 Speaker 02 And I don't even want to think about it. But I think there are still enough Scots, Welsh, English and Irish there who will stand up and be counted. I'm cheered up by somebody like Conor Macgregor that stands up and defends Irish national culture, identity, language, everything.
41:54 Speaker 02 All of the Europeans need to come to Jesus on this one. They need to come very, very soon. And that doesn't mean they're evil. It means that they're defending the one thing that is worth defending, which is their own country, their own nation, their own society. So I hope that that will happen. We need to do the same thing. And that's why I, I, I went down to the border. Not because, and, and again, this has nothing to do with, with whether you love or dislike Mexicans. I'm sorry, Mexicans are fine. That's not the issue.
42:23 Tucker Carlson? Everyone likes Mexicans.
42:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, everybody does.
42:25 Tucker Carlson? No one's against Mexicans.
42:26 Speaker 02 The, the bottom line though, is that our border is the soft underbelly of the country. It's a strategic vulnerability. And what exists in Latin America, in Central America, in Mexico is very dangerous to us. And if we don't wake up and start focusing on it, it will ultimately destroy us. How many hundreds of thousands have we lost? 500,000 people to fentanyl poisoning? And somebody says, whoa, Chinese. Wait, wait a minute. The Chinese ship ingredients, they're mixed down in Mexico. You don't like the fact that Chinese sold the ingredients, ingredients? Fine, you can ban the Chinese from exporting to the United States. I don't care what you do. Don't go to war with China.
43:10 Speaker 02 The people that are mixing the poison and then mainlining it into the country, they're the cartels in Mexico. And by the way, they have a lot of support here. Their influence reaches right up into DHS, all the way to Congress. There are so many people on the, on the payroll. I'm told after my visit down to the border, it's frightening.
43:30 Tucker Carlson? American officials on the payroll of Mexican drug cartels.
43:33 Speaker 02 Yeah. The other thing, the other thing, as an example, I, I said, well, have we stopped everything? And you know, you talk to sheriffs and I went down there and talked to a really a great man. And he's a huge supporter of President Trump, as I am. And I walked into, walked into his office, this building. And here's this life-size photograph of Donald Trump pointing at you. I thought it was Trump. I mean, I really did. I said, my God, how the president get here ahead of all of us? It was about the same time that Vance and, and Tulsi and Hegseth went to Eagle Pass. And this was Kenny County, and this was Sheriff Co.
44:13 Speaker 02 And Sheriff Coast says, "Oh, things have gotten so much better." You know, that's right. The optics are much better. There are no longer thousands of people marching over the border anymore. But what about the legal ports of entry? The Border Patrol has nothing to do with the legal ports of entry. Those are controlled by police authorities, Customs Police, and others. And I said, "Well, what's the problem with the legal ports of entry?" "Well, most of the drugs and a lot of the human trafficking comes through the legal ports." I said, "Well, how does that happen?" They said, "Well, if somebody comes up to you and you make normally three or four thousand a month, and they say, 'Here's 20,000, let us through,' you get through."
44:57 Speaker 02 And that's part of the problem on the border. So I said, "Well, what do you think needs to happen?" And people told me privately, "You need to get the US Army on the border. Bring back the regular Army and then rotate them."
45:09 Tucker Carlson? And the Army's not on the border.
45:10 Speaker 02 No, they just sent a brigade, and that's fine. But we have, I think, six or seven of these brigades of motorized infantry, these light armored vehicles, put them on the border. We need 40, 50, 60,000 troops down there. We need some aviation brigades down there. Now, they don't all have to stay there forever, but they need to stay there until the barriers are built and the border is secure. And then we need to come up with a system where we periodically rotate units down there to back up the police, back up the Border Patrol. Why? Because the cartels are infinitely better armed than the police and the Border Patrol.
45:47 Tucker Carlson? They have Javelin missile systems.
45:49 Speaker 02 Yes. Yes. They've got unmanned systems for ISR, for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance. They've got armed unmanned systems. And the thing that nobody seems to understand is what happens when we finally stop it? You stop the drugs, you stop the human trafficking along the border. Now, they're going to try and go around you. They'll try to use the coastal waters. And I think the Coast Guard belongs in the United States, not in the South China Sea, not in the Persian Gulf. They belong here, and they're not. They need to bring them back and get them.
46:24 Tucker Carlson? We have the Coast Guard in the Persian Gulf?
46:26 Speaker 02 Yes, yes, absolutely.
46:29 Speaker 02 We gotta get him back into the coastal.
46:30 Tucker Carlson? Whose coast are we guarding?
46:31 Speaker 02 Well, not ours. Let's be frank. That's the problem. And they're gonna try and find other ways. They will fly people up to North America. You know, Michael Yan, he's studied all of this.
46:41 Tucker Carlson? I've known him well, yeah.
46:42 Speaker 02 He's done great work down there at all these camps that we, the American federal government, has actually helped to fund these non-governmental organizations in order to sponsor millions of people to invade our country and give them phones. You know the routine.
46:58 Tucker Carlson? I do.
46:58 Speaker 02 They're still there. Those camps are still there. Somebody needs to go down and torch those things. In other words, it needs to be scorched earth down there. Get rid of this. And you have to put the army on the border to ensure that these barriers are built and you have truly a secure border. You need the Coast Guard at sea for the same purpose. Now, once that's done, you can ratchet back. However, what happens when the money stops? You're in the cartels. You make billions of dollars every year. Truck, truckloads of, you know, $800,000 in greenbacks go across the border from north to south. What happens when that stops? We'll be at war, Tucker.
47:41 Speaker 02 We'll be at war. These people aren't gonna go gently into the night. We're cutting them off.
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49:16 Tucker Carlson? They didn't, when the pre-loss, the, the party that ruled Mexico from the revolution up until the Cente Fox, they had deals with, you know, they had sort of had a stasis. And the second that arrangement collapsed, the country fell in, I mean, they had a more reform-minded government, but the country fell into a basically a civil war that it's been in ever since. Right? I mean, the cartels are, and now they run the country.
49:47 Speaker 02 They run the country, yeah. And of course, we have the problem with arguably 50 million illegals inside the United States. 30 million is what most of the people watching the borders and watching the camps down in Darien in Panama say have come into the country. And we want to deport these people. And absolutely, we need to. It will help us enormously. I mean, how are we paying for their healthcare? How are we paying for all the things that they want and need? Well, we're printing money. You know, this is a burden on our society, not a benefit. Everybody says, well, that's not true. They're immigrants are a benefit. Legal immigrants can be a benefit. Not these people. They're not a benefit and they need to go.
50:33 Speaker 02 Well, how, how do you do that? And historically, when Herbert Hoover directed the removal of nine million Mexicans after the stock market crash to open up jobs for Americans, remember, Americans won't do those jobs. Guess what? When there was no work, they were going to do all of those jobs. And he said, I've got to get these people out before Americans take shots at them because they want their jobs. Okay, he moved nine million out. FDR moved three and a half million. Truman moved out over two million. Eisenhower moved out another 1.5. How did this happen? Put the army in charge, United States Army, supplemented by the police and the National Guard.
51:16 Speaker 02 And they organized it and executed it. We've got to do that. How many of those people are sleeper cells for various terrorist organizations around the world that want to do us harm? Well, I'm sure Tulsi Gabbard can come on here and talk about it. She knows more about it than probably any of us at this point. But I, I don't know how many, but I know there are a lot. And we should be very concerned about that. And I don't see anybody expressing that concern anywhere. And which is one of the reasons I went down there with, with some really great people to show me around and explain these things. Now, I, I want everybody to understand the people that you've got on the border with very few exceptions are trying very hard to do the right thing, all these sheriffs are.
52:01 Speaker 02 But they all admit privately that the problem is bigger than they are. And that's why the federal government has to have a role. The federal government also has to have a zone where it can operate. You need at least a mile, mile and a half, two miles into the United States where you can, you can take over and arrest people that get through. Right now, you know, we have this big problem with you get into the United States and everything changes. That's got to stop. Excuse me. All of these things are far more important than what is happening today in the Middle East. When I say far more important, I'm saying for us as Americans. I'm not saying that what happens in Gaza is irrelevant. It isn't. It's terrible.
52:44 Speaker 02 What's happening on the West Bank is terrible. We should be doing everything in our power to stop these, this mass murder. The American people don't see it. They don't hear about it. Uh, they don't even hear about what happens to Christians all over the Middle East that are being killed. I mean, the photographs that come to me in a steady stream from people over there are frightening. They're murdering Alawites, they're murdering Orthodox Christians, they're murdering Roman Catholics in Syria. You know, we helped to create this chaos in Syria. So did Netanyahu.
53:16 Speaker 02 At some point, our friend Erdogan needs to come down and restore some measure of order. I think that's inevitable. Somebody's got to take control of that place and run it. It's not going to run itself. But these things are not our things. Does that make sense?
53:31 Tucker Carlson? Of course it does. Of course it does. No, our priorities have been hijacked by other countries. And it's distressing because it does seem like the problems that we face now, you know, will determine whether the United States, you know, remains.
53:50 Speaker 02 Makes it.
53:51 Tucker Carlson? Makes it. Thank you. Nicely put. Makes it. So just to bottom line on a couple of issues, do you, how would you rate the likelihood? I mean, it does seem like the president, having run on the promise of peace in Eastern Europe and inserted himself right into the middle of it, being the only person who can bring peace, you know, he kind of has to see this through, and likely will. Do you, how hard will it be to get some sort of settlement between Ukraine and Russia?
54:22 Speaker 02 Well, he has to keep something in mind. You cannot turn around after the American government and all of its agencies have worked tirelessly to kill, maim, murder, harm as many Russians as possible.
54:38 Tucker Carlson? Including Putin himself?
54:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, over the last, what, three and a half years. So we have to understand that. You just can't, you can't just flip the switch and say, sorry, we want to be friends now. However much you may want to do that, you can't. You've got to admit, this is a catastrophe, and we are mightily responsible. And that's why I would urge the president to do exactly what I said. End all aid to Ukraine. Stop pretending that that government and anything we've done in that country is a positive thing. It's not. Has nothing to do with liberal democracy. Has nothing to do with goodness in any form. What we've done there is terrible.
55:19 Speaker 02 What we need to do is stop it. So stop sending any aid, and then get everybody out, everybody. And then offer to host a conference between, and I would not argue everybody in Europe, but I would certainly argue, all of the states that border Russia. And Germany, because Germany may not border Russia, but Germany has long-term strategic interests in Russia as Russia has in Germany. They should all meet in a conference room and agree to a new map with new borders. We don't need to draw those, they need to draw those. And Europeans can do that, they have been around forever. How many times have European borders changed in the last thousand years?
56:01 Tucker Carlson? They've redrawn some maps over time. I can't even keep up.
56:05 Speaker 02 Of course.
56:06 Tucker Carlson? I mean, try to find, like, like, the, the map of what's now called Ukraine, how many iterations in the past, just hundred years?
56:17 Speaker 02 Too many, too many to even count.
56:18 Tucker Carlson? You, you can't even keep up.
56:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
56:20 Tucker Carlson? Right.
56:20 Speaker 02 And you stop this nonsense about, well, you can't trust the Russians, they're gonna do, they're, they'll take advantage of that. Come on, this is nonsense. They've lost a hundred, 120,000 human lives. You really think they want to continue? There's no interest in that at all.
56:35 Tucker Carlson? No.
56:36 Speaker 02 And you know, what's really distinguished President Putin from all of his predecessors, I would argue, is his concern for the lives of Russian soldiers. None of his predecessors were ever that concerned about how many lives they lost. You go back to the First World War, Nicholas II was a good man, but he was willing to accept tremendous losses if he thought he was gonna pave the road to victory with Russian dead. That's not Putin, that's not what he wants. Lavrov doesn't want it, the General Staff doesn't want it, the population doesn't want it. So we need to stop that nonsense. And that's about as much as we can
57:16 Speaker 02 do. We're not going to overnight cultivate new friendship with them. It's gonna take at least a decade, probably two decades, to restore some sort of normalcy to our relationship.
57:28 Tucker Carlson? Mineral deal in Ukraine, wise?
57:30 Speaker 02 I don't understand what this is. I've looked, I, I'm interested in rare earths, okay?
57:35 Tucker Carlson? Yeah.
57:35 Speaker 02 And I've done some work in that area. And rare earths can be found anywhere on the planet. However, not in high concentrations.
57:44 Tucker Carlson? Right.
57:44 Speaker 02 We just found the highest concentration of rare earths in Europe, right off the coast of Norway. I love the Norwegians, I'm very happy for them. Although they're a bit lunatic when it comes to understanding what's happening in Ukraine.
57:56 Tucker Carlson? They have enough natural resources already in Norway. It seems that they're, they're over blast.
58:00 Speaker 02 Yeah. But I mean, they, they, they have it, and that's good. I don't know what he's talking about. I don't know what the president is talking about in Ukraine because all of those rare earths in any kind of concentration are in eastern Ukraine, under Russian feet right now, or in Crimea.
58:17 Tucker Carlson? Well, so maybe that is kind of the point.
58:18 Speaker 02 And I, you know, look, if that's the case, pack up, get out, and at some point, let's do business with the Russians. Because the Ukrainians are not going to have those concentrations.
58:29 Tucker Carlson? So I'm aware, I knew, that's why I asked you the question, because I knew that, and I'm, or I think I know that. And so it makes me wonder, like, if Zelensky is, you know, now anxious to sign this deal, was anxious before to sign the deal before his arrogance and bad advice got in the way, maybe what this really is, is a way to change US policy, and sort of have us try and force the Russians to withdraw from Crimea and eastern Ukraine, which of course is not going to happen.
58:59 Speaker 02 Well, yeah, there's, how many Rs are there in fat chance? That's not going to happen. By the way, there are marvelous concentrations of rare earths in Canada.
59:12 Tucker Carlson? Yeah.
59:12 Speaker 02 You know, historically, we've been friends. Come on. What are we doing over there with rare earths? This is nuts. Let's do business with the Canadians. They've got rich deposits of rare earths. We have some here in the United States. And since we have the opportunity to talk about this a little bit, I'd like to help out my friends in southern Kentucky. Because you have coal seams in southern Kentucky, finest coal in the world, by the way, very high BTUs, very low phosphorus, burns clean, very hot, and in the coal seams, there are rare earths in abundance. And in all the old slag heaps, and all the containment
59:49 Speaker 02 pools, from many, many decades of mining, there are rare earths. So Kentucky, southern Kentucky, should be a boom economy in the future. If anybody has any brains, go down there and start mining for rare earths. You don't even have to dig it up. It's in the slag heaps and in the pools.
1:00:12 Tucker Carlson? Amazing.
1:00:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, now, we don't have a refinery. I don't know if we have a refinery here in the United States. The biggest refineries that do the best job are in Kazakhstan, Outer Mongolia, and in China, Inner Mongolia. So we ship this stuff over there. Wouldn't it make sense to
1:00:34 Speaker 02 pass a bill and build refineries so we refine our own rare earths here inside the United States? And this is the sort of thing President Trump talks about all the time, and he's absolutely dead right. That's what we should be doing. Forget this business in Ukraine. It's a waste of time. We don't need to do that. We need to search for opportunities right on our, under our noses right now in this hemisphere. This is where we live. You might as well do it here.
1:01:03 Tucker Carlson? A lot's gonna, a lot's gonna need to change.
1:01:06 Speaker 02 Oh, and he's, listen, he's done so many good things with his executive orders here at home. Now, I don't know about the depth of planning. I don't know about the strategy. It'll take time to see what's there. But he set the forces in motion in the right direction. All of that, all of that could be lost by bad decisions in the Middle East or Eastern Europe.
1:01:29 Tucker Carlson? Do you know, I mean, I, I know the head of CENTCOM, I think, is very anxious to have new wars in the Middle East.
1:01:38 Speaker 02 Who is the CENTCOM commander right now?
1:01:40 Tucker Carlson? Carrilla, I think.
1:01:41 Speaker 02 Oh, no. Really? You have that impression?
1:01:44 Tucker Carlson? I do.
1:01:48 Speaker 02 Well, then it's time to ask for his papers and send him on his way. We, we don't, it's like saying, I think it's a great time to contract syphilis. Let's go get it. You know, to hell with that.
1:02:02 Tucker Carlson? Do you think at the Pentagon, you no longer work at the Pentagon, but if you were to, you know, spend a week there talking to people off the record, like, what, what would be the level of support for new wars?
1:02:14 Speaker 02 Well, first of all, remember that your general officer corps is different from the rest of the officer corps. That of course. That doesn't mean there aren't lots of full colonels out there who are desperate to be generals. And so they'll try to provide you with the answer they think is most likely to get them promoted. Right. Okay. But when you go into the general officer corps at the three and four star level, they have been conditioned for decades to look for trouble, literally. In other words, go out and find a reason why we need Central Command. Right. We need Africa Command, we need European Command, we need Pacific Command, now we call it Indo-Pacific. Insane.
1:02:55 Speaker 02 When I was sitting over at the National Defense University before I retired, they came over and said, well, we're going to have Africa Command. And I looked at, and Abbe's aid at the time was the J5. I said, why? I mean, how would you feel if you're an African? Well, the United States military has now created a command and calls it Africa Command. How's that good for Africa? Are you planning on invading, you know? I mean, having been to Africa, the last thing Africans need is a column of US or British or French troops marching through the neighborhood. It's a disaster. They have enough violence and problems there, we don't need to add to it.
1:03:38 Speaker 02 I think, I think President Trump wants to get rid of Africa Command. We don't need most of these. We should have four. We should have Northern Command, Pacific Command, Southern Command, and Atlantic Command. That's it. You know why? Because that's all we need. We don't, you know why we have all these commands? This all emerged as a result of the Second World War. Because you needed layered commands over, over distance to communicate. Right. I mean, if you take a drive out to Kansas, one of my favorite states, and I was stationed at both Leavenworth and Fort Riley. Why is Fort Riley where it is from Fort Leavenworth?
1:04:17 Speaker 02 Because it takes exactly one day on horseback to ride from Fort Leavenworth to Fort Riley. And that was important 130, 140 years ago, because you had Rappahins and Comanches and other people that could interfere with you. So you had to be able to get somewhere to reinforce or support someone else. That's gone. We don't have to do that now. You can have instantaneous communications almost anywhere in the world if you want it immediately. You can have visibility of everything, thanks to the satellite arrays that we have of everything. You don't have to have commands for every region in the world. And we don't have to strive for global
1:04:58 Speaker 02 military hegemony. What we need to do is be resolute in the defense of our country, here in the Western Hemisphere. So those four commands make sense. They make sense because we are also primarily a maritime and an aerospace power. We're not a land power, except in the United States. And that's why the United States Army, for over 100 years, was always on the Mexican border. Because that's where the hotspots were. We forget that Mexico was the one that the Germans approached in 1917 as a potential ally against us, and the Mexicans were only too happy. After they left, you got the communists,
1:05:39 Speaker 02 and they moved into Mexico. And the Mexicans were very pro-communists all up through the Second World War and beyond. The largest KGB operation in North America was in Mexico.
1:05:51 Tucker Carlson? Well, of course, Oswald Wentz, Leon Trotsky lived in Mexico City.
1:05:54 Speaker 02 And of course, our friend Castro and Che Guevara. Che was always special to me, he's a Basque. But that's another story. Anyway, the point is, you know, good Lord, what are we doing? We should be concerned about Mexico. It's a permanent issue for us. It's as important to us as Ukraine is to Russia.
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1:08:06 Tucker Carlson? So let me ask you a last question in an area that I know you know a lot about, Germany.
1:08:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:08:13 Tucker Carlson? So I, I thought you were going to be the ambassador of Germany. I think you should have been. I know. Sorry.
1:08:20 Speaker 02 Back to ours with fat chance.
1:08:21 Tucker Carlson? Sorry to bring up a sore subject, but the reason that Germany matters, I mean, there are many reasons it matters, but it is basically, it's Europe. And without Germany, it's kind of hard to be Europe, except as like some sad museum. It's the only really living part of Europe, and it seems to be dying. What happens to Germany?
1:08:41 Speaker 02 That's going to depend a great deal on the emergence of real leadership in Germany that is clear-eyed and focused on what's important to Germany. I think the last time they had that kind of capable leadership was really with Bismarck. I think Wilhelm I was a good man, but he wasn't strong enough to resist the dumb ideas that came his way. And Hitler, obviously, overreached and destroyed everything, put everything at risk. I don't see any evidence that the Germans are interested in overreaching or conquering anybody, but they do have an interest in restoring their productivity, their scientific industrial base. They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. You know, when I went to school over there, and I went to a good school, and I was at
1:09:26 Speaker 02 a good school in the United States, I was the oldest Quaker private school in the United States, founded in 1681, the same year that my maternal ancestors arrived in the United States. And I was sent there because my maternal ancestors were all Quakers, and many of them had gone through all these friend school systems, very good. And I went from that school for one year to Germany, to Braunschweig, in northern, central Germany. We call it Brunswick in English, Braunschweig. And I went back to see the school in 2015, and I saw it in 2011 briefly, and then again in 2015. And it was all male, and when I got into the 11th grade, they were studying differential
1:10:10 Speaker 02 calculus and preparing to move into integral calculus. Well, that was a bit advanced for me. You know, I'd gone through algebra and trigonometry and so forth, but differential and integral calculus in the 11th grade, this is a real problem, and I struggled mightily. And this was a school with 13 grades. And by the time you finished, if you completed your abitur, you were qualified to go to any university in the country. You were stamped, you got the stamp of approval. They did look at your performance on your final exams, but this was very, very rigorous. I mean, I was dealing with classmates who were on the humanities side, I was stuck on the math-science side, which is the wrong place for me at the time, but, you know, I
1:10:55 Speaker 02 survived, lots of beer. Anyway, on the other side, they were studying Greek and Latin. Along with French and other and English. It was it was very rigorous. This was a university prep school. Because the Germans had a system where at the fifth grade and the ninth grade, people were separated and were sent off to what we would call trade schools. You could learn to be a hotel manager. You could learn to be any number of different trades or whatever skills were needed, from electrician to plumber or something else. Only about fifteen percent went through this university prep system, which was designed to send you to a university where you would go on to do great things.
1:11:40 Speaker 02 So I got back there and we were all male. And the first thing that I saw on the first day, I came in there and everybody was fairly nice to me. They thought I was strange and I thought they were strange, but you know, whatever. Germans were different, you know? I said, geez, these Germans are very different. And they gave me a seat, told me where to sit. And the instructor walked into the classroom. And the instructor said, guten Morgen, meine Herrschaften. And everybody stood up with attention. Said, guten Morgen, Herr Studienrat. And he would say, bitte, meine Herren, setzen Sie sich. And we all sat down. Let me tell you, what happened after that was serious. We sat down and we focused nonstop for an hour, hour and twenty minutes,
1:12:25 Speaker 02 on whatever the subject matter was. And the instructor was very well trained, very well educated. And he would turn around and he would say to one of the students at the top of the class, in the front row, I sort of sat in the back. And this this guy was was the individual that recorded whatever was taught in the class that day. And he would say, what did we discuss the last time? And he would open the book and he said, the last time we discussed the following things. And he said, exactly, this time we are going to do the following. Let me tell you, it was one of the best educations I've ever gotten in my life. But what really struck me was focus. School was not about anything else other than infusing minds with understanding and knowledge.
1:13:13 Speaker 02 It was very effective. So when I went back in 2015, I looked around, suddenly there were all these girls. There were no women with us. We were all male. Suddenly I have all these girls in the hallways. And I peeked in and I saw and the teacher walked in and said, okay, students, please take your seats and we'll get going. And I was shocked. So I spoke to the man that ran the school. I said, oh, we've adopted the American model. We're, we're, we've done everything that you do in America now. I said, you've lost your mind.
1:13:49 Tucker Carlson? Just like lowered the standards dramatically?
1:13:51 Speaker 02 What you had here worked. It was brilliant. And I was so grateful that I was exposed to it. And you've ruined it. Of course, they said, well, this man's a Neanderthal. He's an idiot. He doesn't understand what he's talking about. Uh, Germany has to get back to basics. Go back to being German and stop apologizing for being German. Do what Germans do best. I'm not saying Germans are perfect, but every nationality in Europe has a certain area of expertise, a certain specialty.
1:14:25 Tucker Carlson? Yes.
1:14:25 Speaker 02 That they do very, very well. The Germans need to get back to that and stop apologizing for events that happened long before any of these people were born. That doesn't mean that you're denying something that happened. Absolutely not. No one denies anything in Germany. In fact, you know, when they, they started showing these, these Nazi symbols in Ukraine, people in Germany were horrified, saying, my God, what is going on in that country? And, and they should have been horrified. We should have been horrified. And we weren't. We subsidized it. We pushed it.
1:15:01 Tucker Carlson? Well, some Nazis are okay, as long as, you know, they're doing the bidding of, of the CIA and the Biden administration, you know, um, as long as Tori and Newland thinks they're okay, they're okay.
1:15:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, I, I don't subscribe to that view.
1:15:15 Tucker Carlson? I'm pretty anti-Nazi across the board.
1:15:17 Speaker 02 Yeah. And there's so many good things about Germany that that's the last thing in the world you want to resurrect. And I think that will happen, but it's not going to happen under Metz. He's another semi-globalist with connections to BlackRock and others. And he's going to stagger forward and eventually the Germans will get rid of him. And eventually, I think the AFD will come to power. In fact, they've done the AFD a great favor by refusing to cooperate with them. Because that will draw more people into the AFD so that when they do get power, they will have an ironclad majority and they can do the things that are needed to save Germany.
1:15:57 Tucker Carlson? Um, you don't think Germany's dead?
1:16:00 Speaker 02 Absolutely not. No one in Europe is dead. Nobody in Europe is dead, but they, they have to-
1:16:06 Tucker Carlson? Even the Brits?
1:16:07 Speaker 02 No, absolutely. Oh, come on.
1:16:09 Tucker Carlson? They're so degraded. It just breaks my heart.
1:16:12 Speaker 02 I, you know, listen, I think if you spend, if you spend time over there, I think you'll find there's a lot left. I do talk to people on the phone. I have done some podcasts with Englishmen and Scotsmen and so forth. But they have been through this systematic brainwashing to be turned into self-loathing Europeans.
1:16:33 Tucker Carlson? Yes.
1:16:34 Speaker 02 You know, apologizing for things they never did and that they shouldn't apologize for.
1:16:38 Tucker Carlson? I agree.
1:16:39 Speaker 02 You know, I mean, this is just crazy. It's like saying, "You're evil. You were in the Second Cavalry, Macgregor, and you know what they did to the Indians?" Come on. I wasn't there. You know, and I, and I'm sure it was terrible and I'm sorry we did that and it's regrettable. But I wasn't there and I'm not, I'm not going to compensate anybody for anything. You know, my, my grandfather used to say, "None of us is responsible for the people our parents slept with."
1:17:05 Tucker Carlson? That's exactly right.
1:17:06 Speaker 02 To hell with that.
1:17:07 Tucker Carlson? No, we don't believe in collective punishment here in the Christian West. Doug Macgregor, thank you for your bracing but very insightful analysis.
1:17:19 Speaker 02 Good to see you again, Tucker.
1:17:20 Tucker Carlson? Thanks to see you.
1:17:25 Tucker Carlson? We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit, follow, and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.
Previous Tucker and Chris Cuomo Debate JFK/Epstein Files, DOGE, Joe Rogan, NATO, Transgenderism, and DEI Next Clayton Morris: Truth About the USS Liberty, Europe’s Self-Destruction, & Is Brigitte Macron a Man? Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
