The CIA’s "Secret" Moscow Trip & Putin’s Growing Problems | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

In this episode, we break down CIA Director John Ratcliffe’s surprise trip to Moscow, what it may signal about U. S. concerns over Russian escalation, and Estonia’s warning that Putin is increasingly boxed into “only bad options.” We also look at the growing economic pressure inside Iran, divisions within the regime, and whether the U. S. has a coherent strategy for turning military, economic, intelligence, and covert pressure into actual political results. Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Jack's news outlet:⬇️ https://thehighside.substack.com/ Find Jon Hackett here:⬇️ Jon's Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Jon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Jon's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0C5L659N5?ccs_id=e11a2062-f8d3-498e-bfd7-7d2f3869caf6 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thejonathanhackett Twitter: https://x.com/jonathanhackett Check out Mick's new podcast here:⬇️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/pub-and-porch-applied-stoicism/id1836955475 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1k3QPmkAMwnGJxMLDwUSSd?si=n6piIu8XRcag1Z0K43A3bQ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCd0Hq6QFk8CoTu5j-VU0Ong Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Whitefish security summit ⬇️ https://whitefishsecuritysummit.com Find Marc P here: https://x.com/Mpolymer Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 – Start 01:59 – Why Did CIA Director John Ratcliffe Go to Moscow? 05:17 – Was Ratcliffe Warning Russia About NATO? 08:33 – U. S. Intelligence, Strategic Surprise & Defending Europe 11:04 – Can the U. S. Defend NATO While Fighting Iran? 14:00 – Russian Sabotage Operations Across Europe 16:19 – Ratcliffe’s Meetings With the FSB & SVR Chiefs 22:23 – GRU Operations, Assassinations & Sabotage in Europe 26:07 – Estonia’s Intel Chief Warns Putin Has “Only Bad Options” 29:59 – Could Russia Face an Elite Revolt Against Putin? 34:11 – Russia’s Casualties, Oligarchs & the Risk of Mobilization 38:31 – Is Estonia Sending a Message to Russia’s Elite? 41:44 – Six Months Into the Iran War & “Economic D-Day” 44:46 – Divisions Inside Iran Over Ending the War 48:03 – How Long Can Iran Survive the Economic Pressure? 49:03 – Should the U. S. Be Arming Opposition Groups Inside Iran? 53:36 – Why the U. S. Iran Strategy Still Lacks a Coherent Campaign 56:51 – Andy Milburn’s Upcoming Gaza War Book 58:18 – Jonathan Hackett’s Books & Upcoming Audiobook 59:27 – Upcoming Fiction Book & Closing Remarks Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

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  911, what's your emergency?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

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  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 0:58Speaker 05

  Hey, everybody, we are back. Another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm here with Jonathan Hackett, Mick Mulroy dressed up for us today. Thank you, Mick. And Andy just can't get off, got off a workout looking pumped as ever. Lot happening as usual. Iran's kind of like in a standstill, you know? The Strait of Hormuz is open. No, it's not. It's open. No, it's not like it's hilarious what's going on, I guess, in the headlines between both sides. I think today we're going to focus on, obviously, everybody saw CIA directors, Ratcliffe's secret, fuck, and I'm saying that in air quotes for the people that are listening, trip to Moscow that was basically fucking telegraphed the whole time, like all the OSN accounts

• 1:40Speaker 05

  that follow, you know, plane data and transponders were following this guy when he hit Riga and then when he hit Moscow. So I don't know if you could really technically call it secret because like after it happened, there was like a spin cycle that was going on for like the last week.

• 1:56Speaker 05

  Lot of speculation as to what they were talking about. He met the head of the FSB and SVR. Putin wasn't there, but he's briefed right after.

• 2:06Speaker 05

  So, yeah, I mean, there's a ton of speculation, like I'll throw it off to you guys. I mean, I'm sure you guys have been paying attention to this really tightly. Andy, let's go.

• 2:18Speaker 06

  All right. So on the, I got nothing on it really on the Ratcliffe, is it?

• 2:25Speaker 05

  So I picked the wrong guy to go first.

• 2:27Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, let's, I mean, let's talk about that first, but I would, I would deflect that to Mick and then I'll chime in with some useless comments in the tail end of that. And then, and then I thought we could talk about the, that excellent article you forwarded D by the head of Estonia's intelligence service in the wake of the Ratcliffe.

• 2:51Speaker 07

  Right, yeah. But that's a good segue. So, yeah, we talked about a lot on ABC this week. So to your point, I mean, there's other ways to get the director of the CIA in that's much less obvious than going on a military transport plane. We have very nondescript jets, for example, that can do that. It's not perfectly clandestine, of course, but this, I think, to your point, D, I think it was meant to be known, right? They wanted this to be something that historically they could go back and say, remember that time? Because one, you could also do a phone call rather than take a 14, 15 hour flight for two hour meeting.

• 3:36Speaker 07

  So I think if you look at it that way, so they wanted it to be known. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but they sent the CIA director. So it probably was about intelligence, although the CIA is often used for sensitive diplomacy, right? With terrorist groups and stuff like that, where you don't want to get, you know, our State Department's hands dirty, so to speak. But I think if you look at most of the reporting, New York Times,

• 4:06Speaker 07

  it was likely about the intelligence they had, specific to the potential challenge to a NATO country. That's my take. Why? You don't need to fly all the way out there to tell them they're not doing well against Ukraine. Like, why? You don't need to fly all the way out there to ask them to stop helping Iran. They know that. They know that we don't want them to help Iran. We're in a war with Iran. I'm not saying they need to address it, but like there had to be something that spurred, one, them wanting to put a marker down that we did this, and two, sending them all the way out there to deliver it. And I think the sensitivity of telling them that we know that they have, obviously, we think they're going to do a major escalation in Ukraine and it might potentially be a

• 4:50Speaker 07

  challenge to a NATO country, and that we know it, I think is probably the most likely. Maybe they talked about all of it, but I think that's probably the reason why they got, got Director Ratcliffe on an aircraft to fly all the way there. So what does it mean? Well, I think it's important to point out that we actually are, just from looking at it from public reporting, good, good intelligence on what Russia intends to do. I mean, how, we were talking about before the war, you know, in Ukraine, like we know they're going to do this, this is going to happen, they denied it and then they did it, right? So I think we must have good intelligence and I think the point is, hey, what element of surprise do you think you have? You don't. So now the whole world's talking about it. See what I mean?

• 5:35Speaker 07

  And hopefully it spurs the countries in Europe to start really amping up their own personal or their own national security, defense and preparedness. Because it's one thing just to make them a lot of fancy new weapon systems, it's another thing to be prepared to use them. So I'll stop there, but I think that's likely the cause and it's certainly, you know, if something like that happened, that's all we're going to be talking about, right? So a challenge against NATO, which we have a treaty obligation to have.

• 6:09Speaker 06

  So Mick, it was, it's kind of interesting. He, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a direct approach to Putin or even Lavrov, right? He met with the FSB and the SVR chiefs, which I thought was kind of interesting. So maybe it was a, that's kind of a, he believed that was going to be more effective. I like what you said about it wasn't intended to be secret because in this age of Twitter plus transponders and all these geeks who track commercial aircraft, it's, it's impossible. You know, the days of Nixon and Kissinger disappearing for a few days to talk to China

• 6:52Speaker 06

  along, you can't do that anymore, right?

• 6:57Speaker 06

  So I, you know, I'd heard about, I'd heard about, and because the next thing we're going to talk about obviously is this Estonian article and, and the head of the Estonian,

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Estonia's intelligence agency thought that it was specifically to warn off Putin against attacking a NATO country, which is probably, you know, Estonia.

• 7:24Speaker 06

  But then a couple of, I think it was the Washington Post and Axios and Wall Street Journal, everyone's been covering this visit, right? And so they, they suggest that that was not the primary reason. Primary reason was that the US had received intel that the Russians were saying, that Russian intel was reporting that the United States was exhausted by the Iran, Iran war, unable to intervene to support Ukraine, even if the decision was made to do so. And that Ratcliffe's mission was, was to disabuse them because they were the ones who'd said that to Putin. He was going to address that directly with them and say, hey, you're off target.

• 8:07Speaker 06

  And at the same time, indirectly propose indirectly, because it's him going through the intelligence chain rather than a direct over proposal that they open. You know, remember they talked about trilateral talks? When the whole Iran thing blew up in February, there was this discussion of Zelensky, Putin and Trump meeting. I forget where, but it, but it was, it was planned and then it was all shelved when the Iran war started. So the secondary, you know, the papers are reporting that the second, secondary objective of this meeting was to, to float a Trump, Putin, Zelensky trilateral summit again.

• 8:50Speaker 06

  And is kind of testing whether Russian intelligence could get Putin to reengage with US mediated talks, you know, the ones that had stalled without, without a direct approach that could be shot down and look as though we'd been humiliated. And then the third reason, as you pointed out, again, this is just open source media,

• 9:15Speaker 06

  it's been suggested was to warn off Russia against potentially escalating against a NATO country.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  I think also we're seeing, you know, at the highest level of intelligence activity, strategic intelligence, there's a couple of goals, reduce strategic surprise, reduce uncertainty, and inform decision makers. And here we're seeing a public element of a larger thing. So we're seeing the public movement of Ratcliffe to Russia, but there are also other things that the public is not seeing, such as the duty to warn. So there's likely, if there was intelligence that were, that's instigating this behavior in, in Europe, our European partners are probably receiving separate things connected to this activity, letting them know, we see these things, we're aware of these things. This is to help inform your decision making and help reduce your strategic surprise in case of a Russian escalation.

• 10:06Speaker 04

  So there's stuff that's happening that's probably larger. It's like the iceberg metaphor. We're seeing this little, small piece of an iceberg and there's a lot of other activity happening, like sensitive diplomacy, intelligence activity with our allies and partners in Europe to help them understand the problem as well. Because even if we're not

• 10:22Speaker 03

  Physically there in Europe, defending on the ground today. Defense isn't just a physical military activity, it's also an intelligence activity. So we're helping our partners be ready, especially the Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia corridor and Poland, of course. Helping them get ready as a bulwark against what might be rolling westward, if there was to be such a thing.

• 10:41Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then D, you sent out.

• 10:46Speaker 06

  So I mean, to, to John's point, so John, you're, you're basically saying that there's always the danger, right? When it, I mean, when it, when it comes to interpreting moves, there's always a danger that things can be miscalculated. And so it's a serious danger. If the Russians are underestimating US capability and intent, right, to, to get involved. Should there be a significant

• 11:12Speaker 06

  threat to, to a NATO country?

• 11:15Speaker 07

  Hopefully that was, the message was delivered and he hopefully right after we said, we think you might have designs on a NATO country. We will defend the NATO country. I mean, that's what and, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I wanted it face to face and done through the intelligence services. He's delivering a message, he's not speaking.

• 11:35Speaker 06

  And because the intelligence services reportedly are the ones who had told Putin, hey, I think the US is, they don't have the will or the capacity right now to intervene. Should you want to do this, do X, whatever it is.

• 11:50Speaker 05

  I mean, you guys are military experts. Do we have a capability at this point?

• 11:54Speaker 06

  To do what?

• 11:54Speaker 07

  To defend NATO?

• 11:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 11:58Speaker 06

  I mean, it, it, it would take repositioning, it, it would take reprioritization, that's all, right?

• 12:04Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 06

  I mean, you, you know, you, you take something as simple as interceptors and this long torturous argument about interceptors. I mean, Lockheed Martin is still churning them out, but it's the US government that gives Lockheed Martin the prioritization to use the interceptors. And recently that has gone to war in Iran. But I mean, again, it's a question of prioritization. If the government says, okay, now we're going to pool all our resources. We're going to put this Iran thing on hold and we're going to focus everything on, um, on, on containing Russian, Russian aggression. Of course we can do it. We have the capacity to do it. But it's got to be a deliberate decision.

• 12:44Speaker 07

  Let's not overstate like we have in the past, Russia's capability. They're, they're a stalemate with Ukraine. Right? Right? So yes, and we need to, uh, uh, one of the things, hopefully that comes out of it, in addition to passing the message and, and the promise of like, we won't stand for it, is we can now go to the NATO partners and say, let's prepare for this.

• 13:09Speaker 07

  Let's literally prepare for it.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  You've got Seventh Fleet vessels in Fifth Fleet right now. So they're much closer to the Middle East, which means they're physically closer to Europe. So you have aircraft carriers that are not typically in that proximity to Europe that are near, nearby, that can be easily called off. And if we have to remember, you know, the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff is the Global Force Integrator. That was an upgrade in his position after the Goldwater-Nichols Act in 1987, where he is the single individual that can actually move all these forces through these different areas from Seventh Fleet in the Pacific to Fifth Fleet to Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean, for example. So that would be, to answer your question, D, if the chairman, you know, is told, hey, new priority one is defensive Europe. Go. It's very easy for him to shift those forces through those corridors and, and move them through their different areas.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  So that they can be ready to respond to this new priority issue. And as it stands, they're actually closer than usual. So that would be a, a, a shorter timeline to actually readjust. And there's something called the Global Force Management Allocation Plan or GIFMAP that is basically a big chart, a spreadsheet where it's like, like a chessboard, essentially like moving pieces around. And that Global Force Integrator can instantly start moving forces, flowing forces to Europe. And they don't have to be in Europe. They can be offshore. They can be even further away, especially with strategic bombing assets. And we're talking about Russia. You, you will certainly see those strategic assets employed on a much higher scale than they would be against a country like Iran, which is a middling regional power that does not require such strategic assets to be put against it. And those assets were developed in the first place to fight Russia

• 14:41Speaker 03

  in the, in the Cold War. So like, that's what they're built for.

• 14:46Speaker 05

  Let me ask you, in a meeting like this, high level, would they be talking about, uh, Russia cutting off, stopping, um, all the sabotage that's been going on across Europe? I mean, we saw what happened in Leipzig with the unexploded drones and stuff like that. Um, is that even brought up or talked about, or is that like, talked about like on a lower level and not such a high profile meeting?

• 15:08Speaker 07

  Uh, it depends on if it, it might've been part of the assessment of their intent. Right? These advance force operations, I, I don't know specifically. Um, if it's just, it, it probably would need to, since it was very concentrated, right? A two hour meeting.

• 15:24Speaker 07

  And I, and I'm told it didn't go well, by the way, uh, pretty, pretty specifically, it was, we didn't expect them to go, oh, you caught us. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're not going to do it now. Um, so we, we knew that was going to be the case, but you know, that's why they sent a red clip over there. And I tell you what, if you want to, you know, a more definitive view of this, they don't treat guests well, but ask, ask Mark Polimer up. It's like, you know, this idea that you're a guest and therefore it's, it's, it really reflects on you how the guest is treated, like most cultures. I'm not saying it's a cultural thing for us. I'm just saying it's the regime thing. They still treat you like crap. Like keep you waiting, look like waiting for hours and hours, standing up and, uh, go here, go there. I mean, it's

• 16:09Speaker 07

  petty, but I, I don't know how bad it was. But I think they would probably focus it on, they might've talked about Iran, they might've talked about, hey, why don't you guys come up with a reasonable path toward a ceasefire in Ukraine? But I think it was probably focused on if this was in fact what they're talking about, which is the only thing that makes sense to put them on a plane like that. I think it's gonna, the supporting evidence to the extent that you don't want to give away your hand either, right?

• 16:39Speaker 07

  And they're going to deny it. And then they're going to yell at us for starting war in Iran. Stuff like that. Um, but I think it's, I think it was important to do. So hats off for doing it. I think they probably wanted to put a marker in the, on the field saying, on this date, we went and told them we knew what they're doing. Not that that's going to keep them from doing it, but.

• 17:04Speaker 05

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  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

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• 19:42Speaker 05

  I have a couple of questions. So there was a bit, I don't remember the exact article where they mentioned like Ratcliffe felt that the FSB director was like the right go between and like a good actor in terms of like getting Putin to listen and come to sit down, I guess, for the trilateral meeting with Zelensky and Trump.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  That sounds like bullshit because like, how the fuck can we ever, uh, trust the FSB director? Who is a, you know, big part of Putin's inner circle?

• 20:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, I guess it's all compared to others.

• 20:15Speaker 05

  So he was the least, least dick of the bunch?

• 20:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, because I mean, think about it, when it comes to the, the head of the intelligence, they generally do very limited public engagements. And if it is, it usually is on anything politic, political. Right? So. And I bring that up because other people that could potentially have shared the message are going to be asked nonstop about it, whereas Radcliffe is just not going to answer the question. He's not really expected to. Or whoever the CIA directors, and maybe that's a case that he just has a best relationship with his counterpart. You see what I mean? So. I don't know. Uh, I don't think we trust any of them and I don't think they probably trust any of us, but

• 20:59Speaker 07

  you're probably picking the best relationship that is conducive to passing this message. And obviously we're the intelligence folks, so if we're passing a message, it's based on intelligence assessments and that makes sense. But it's also a political issue too, in the sense that these two are probably the least political.

• 21:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, the, um.

• 21:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, they.

• 21:25Speaker 06

  And Mick, correct me if I'm wrong, but, but Radcliffe, it's not the, uh, I mean, the FSB is is primarily a domestic security service. I mean, I know it goes beyond that, but, uh, but the SVR, I suppose the most direct pairing for for the agency.

• 21:43Speaker 07

  I think they were both in there, right? Is that what we're saying?

• 21:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, they were both in there, but neither of this. Not, not a huge amount is known about both of these guys and it's Bornekoff. Um, I forget the name of the SVR guy. Yeah, something beginning with N.

• 21:59Speaker 05

  Sergey Nereskin.

• 22:02Speaker 06

  But, um, I know. Uh, I know Bornekoff's been head of FSB forever. I mean, in almost almost 20 years, you can imagine having a single CIA director that long. You know, and he's, he's come through, you know, the KGB apparatus. I mean, he's, he's obviously a he knows his way around. Undoubtedly, not, not just the intelligence community, but, but politics. Um, he came through the same pipeline as Putin. He's he's obviously close to Putin. And so that, that may have been why he was a useful target for this kind of message.

• 22:43Speaker 07

  Has anybody seen that, uh, buoy about Putin?

• 22:46Speaker 05

  No, I want to see it though. Jude Law plays him.

• 22:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, I need to see it too.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  I don't think it's out yet. It might be like select theaters or something. I haven't, I haven't seen it like advertised much.

• 22:58Speaker 06

  Um, you know, uh, just one more point on that. You know, it occurs to me. Though, I mean, they, I, it is true, FSB is domestic intelligence, but it's not. I suspect that, and Mick knows more about this than I do and John does too. But I suspect it's not as clean a cut as that because remember uh, when there was kind of that discussion about in the aftermath of Ukrainian invasion and there was a lot of discussion about where's Putin getting his intel? And reportedly he got the bad intel about Ukraine being ready to fold quickly. Um, from, uh, Bornekoff from the FSB.

• 23:38Speaker 06

  Uh, so I suppose from one viewpoint, it's surprising Bornekoff still has his job, but then you know, Putin doesn't want to admit that there was any mistake or failure made there. But it's interesting because that was clearly foreign intelligence unless domestic intelligence is a wider, you know, former Soviet Union view of domestic intelligence.

• 24:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, they don't have the legal restrictions that we impose on ourselves, right? We don't want the CIA run around doing weird stuff with US citizens, right? Um, so we have. And it was a, it actually is something they had to adjust after nine 11, right? Because it was such a wall. It was deliberate because they didn't want law enforcement talking to intelligence. Now they have, for example, all these joint terrorism task force around the country where there's a place to fuse it, but still the US doesn't use the CIA against US citizens. Whereas there, I imagine everybody's an enemy, including citizens, right? Their, their view uh, is a central threat to the regime. So it was probably a much more mixed bag.

• 24:44Speaker 07

  Like a lot of regimes have that. You know, they, they, they have a lot of components that do similar things. Uh, because they want to pin them against each other and you know, it's kind of like a regime protection policy. Several groups like the IRGC and the military of Iran, for example, doing a lot of similar things.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  It's like the Ministry of Interior in a lot of countries. In America, the Ministry of Interior manages our parks and wildlife. The Ministry of Interior in a lot of other countries does very different stuff than that.

• 25:17Speaker 07

  Got people hanging up by their ankles and stuff.

• 25:20Speaker 05

  Well, I guess ours is the FBI, right? That's our internal domestic intel.

• 25:26Speaker 06

  For the Russians, I know we're going to talk about this next. So. I mean, there's FSB supposedly domestic, the, um, SVR, which is their, their, um, foreign intelligence service, but all this, all this shit happening in Europe that, um, you know, the Estonian intelligence chief was talking about and that, you know, like the, the, uh, Leipzig airport attack, all of that is the GRU, which is, you know, which is military intelligence, of course. I mean, they're the ones did the Novichok, uh, you know, attack in Salisbury. They're the ones who did, um, uh, the, um, 2014

• 26:08Speaker 06

  Czech ammunition depot explosions, uh, the failed, remember the failed coup in Montenegro? Um, all that kind of the stable destabilized destabilization efforts in Moldova during the elections. Um, the, uh, the London warehouse bombing, I think that was 2024. And, uh, and the drone attack in Leipzig, all of that's the, um, the GRU.

• 26:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. What's the unit called? That, that unit 29 some 29, 28155 or whatever the unit's called. It's like.

• 26:42Speaker 06

  29155.

• 26:43Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, let's, so let me ask you something.

• 26:47Speaker 06

  Andre, I forget the name, but it's, it's some, it's Andre, uh, Andre Everenoff, right? Is the, the leader, uh, the unit. I don't know how his name got out in the public sphere, but it has this.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  Can you look at the G, GRU? I know it's military intel, so it's probably its own division and stuff like that. Is it kind of like their paramilitary arm? I don't want to compare apples to apples with the CIA, but like their ground branch.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  It's like a DMI, Department of Military Intelligence.

• 27:19Speaker 07

  Yeah. But they do things like these targeted killings.

• 27:24Speaker 07

  So not that we do, but.

• 27:25Speaker 05

  So like my, the way I'm seeing it in my head is like SVR is like their espionage arm, like they cultivate sources, do all the stuff that all other intelligence agencies do. The GRU gets after it in terms of like poisoning, uh, sabotage, that, is that fair to say?

• 27:41Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it doesn't completely line up with our system, but there's, there's crossovers.

• 27:49Speaker 07

  And of course, you know, they don't have a lot of lawyers telling what to do like, like we do. You know, even in, even in the clandestine covert side.

• 27:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, because GRU does the, they do kind of the offensive cyber stuff, but SVR does a lot of the hacking, you know, the collection. What's it called? You know, the, the Cozy Bear and SolarWinds reaches were were SVR operations. And there's another unit, um.

• 28:19Speaker 06

  Icon. It's a defense ministry unit, um.

• 28:25Speaker 06

  That's so it's quite complicated. I mean, it's a patchwork, right? And I'm sure there's there's bleed over and who knows whether they share their operations with with each other.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  John, you got any?

• 28:36Speaker 03

  I mean, it's like in the US, we have seventeen intelligence entities, many of them do very similar things. And looking at it from the outside, we see the product. We don't see the purpose. So a lot of times you might see GRU with Navi Chalk in Britain, killing Andreas Skirpul. That looks like an assassination, which it is. But it could be carried out by any of these entities. It wouldn't really matter which one it is, because we don't know what the actual foreign policy purpose was for doing that intelligence activity. So we just see the outcomes or we see the behaviors and things on the street. And it's kind of less relevant, I think, to kind of try to even untangle it, because it's not really important to untangle, because it's all part of the same government, you know, ultimate entity pushing policy down to these independent actors that all are funded

• 29:18Speaker 03

  and directed by the same leadership, which is Putin in his inner circle.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  All right, there's an interesting article, I think, from the Telegraph, I'm almost positive it was. I don't remember. I think it's Telegraph from, I'm trying to get his name, I'm gonna mispronounce his name, from the Estonian intelligence chief, Kooppo Rosen, basically warning that Putin's entering a period where increasingly he has only bad options, essentially. I also wanted to talk a little bit about, like, we've heard the rumors about Russia mobilizing again, you know, and what that does. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but that article basically stated that, like, he has low confidence that a ground up by the people revolution will happen, but like, more on the side of the elites, where like, the elites

• 30:07Speaker 05

  will start getting kind of pissed that things are getting squeezed more and more, they're not making the exact same money they're used to making, and that somebody might make a move. There was another intel chief that kind of called it wishful thinking, in terms of like, being able to overthrow Putin and stuff like that. If you watch like, the Times Radio YouTube, and I don't want to take a shot, it's like, every other video is like, Putin's in trouble, Putin's trouble, it's been like, three years of videos like that. I mean, I get it, like, that's where they make the bread, the bread is buttered, but realistically, and I know Estonia, like, they hit that nail on the head in terms of the invasion in twenty-two, and when it was

• 30:48Speaker 05

  gonna happen too. So like, they have a ton of like, you know, political capital, for lack of a better term, in terms of like, when the intel chief comes out and says something like this, people are gonna take notice and be like, yeah, oh, wow, because it's like, basically, their whole job is, or their number one priority is keeping an eye on Russia, right? Because they're right there, and they can get probably taken over in a few days. It's not a huge country, there's not a lot of people. So I mean, that's their number one threat. Where are you guys at? Andy, Mick, you're up now, so give me something good. Don't pass it off to Mick again.

• 31:23Speaker 06

  Okay, no, I, I thought that was a good article, actually, it was David Blair in the Telegraph, but I, and I love, yeah, I love the Estonians, so I love their attitude, I love what they do. But it's also important to bear in mind, they don't do anything that is not deliberate. You know, no one, no one in the Estonian government or their intelligence community appears suddenly and jabbers away, throw away the lines, or sends out something on X that is kind of a, you know, a random spark. It's all very clearly designed and clearly timed, and I think this interview was too, from a guy who doesn't often give interviews. So,

• 32:08Speaker 06

  you know, and I'm, I, you know, I agree with the gist of the article, but I think it's important to remember, you know, this, and you mentioned it, the bad options framing, right? That's the most quotable line, but it's, but it's also the line that's most likely to be, be subject to, to intelligence community messaging bias, right, from Europeans. Every Western intelligence official has an incentive, European intelligence official has an incentive to describe Russia as fragile, Putin as cornered, because it justifies continued Ukrainian funding, which is definitely something the Estonians support, you know, I mean, it mentions in

• 32:50Speaker 06

  that article, there's a Ukrainian flag flying in the intelligence, you know, right next to the Estonian flag, and their headquarters building of Estonian intelligence, because they see this as a common fight. You know, so I mean, he's obviously not a neutral analyst, and I didn't think anything in that article was particularly surprising. I mean, he said,

• 33:15Speaker 06

  he's not saying Russia could collapse overnight, as you said, you know, he's, he's basically said Putin's one bad month from a palace coup. I mean, he's not saying that, you know, but he is saying that there is, I think he uses the term echelons, he's saying that there's growing, there's growing anger in influential echelons within Russia. And he mentions, you know, he says, yeah, it's not gonna be revolution in the streets, I mean, that's not the way

• 33:55Speaker 06

  it's gonna happen, but discontent rising in, as he said, all echelons, which includes the oligarchs, right? He said, the real risk is that it's these people with what he calls money, weapons, and information, quietly concluding that it's time for Putin to move on. And when that happens, he says, as typically happens in Russia, there won't be any warning, it probably won't be predicted. And he uses the twenty twenty-three Prigozhin mutiny as as proof of how, you know, how the system can suddenly appear from an unexpected source.

• 34:36Speaker 06

  So, nothing, I didn't see anything really new there. You know, a key part of his messaging,

• 34:45Speaker 06

  I mean, he talks, he says, hey, let's not call this hybrid war, right? What we just talked about, what the GRU is doing in Europe, it's warfare, it's open war. We're already in a state of war, NATO's already waging war against Russia, or rather, Russia's waging war against NATO, you know, it's, you can call it war, you can call it state-sponsored terrorism. And he talks about the drone attack in Leipzig. By the way, Farida's not familiar with that, that was Ukrainian aircraft, I believe it's a commercial cargo plane on the ground in Leipzig, hit by a drone, undoubtedly Russian, which fortunately, I mean, it was, it carried explosives, the explosives didn't detonate, otherwise it would have been a much,

• 35:30Speaker 06

  you know, bigger mess with great risk to, obviously, in the apron of the airport. But he talks about all of that, he said, hey, it's, that's war, it's not, you know, let's stop using this hybrid bullshit term. You know, when he's talking about bad options, he's talking about the fact, and we've quoted this on this show, that the Russians are losing at least a thousand guys a day, that isn't a throwaway number, that's been, you know, the MOD's assessment, British MOD's assessment, at least a thousand, sometimes twelve hundred casualties a day, which is just hard to, hard to imagine. Their economy is in the shitter,

• 36:12Speaker 06

  he talks about their massive debt, although who are we in the United States to talk about massive debts? And, and he talks about, he talks about the risks of announcing mobilization, that'd be obviously another round of mobilization is gonna again bring it home to a Russian public that's already suffering economically from the war, and now they're watching again, and you know, they're having to run for the exits to avoid being mobilized to fight in this war, which is seen by most, most young Russians as being a death sentence. But, you know,

• 36:51Speaker 06

  his key, his key point there was, he says, look, NATO is safe as long as deterrence holds, right? And that holds only if the West keeps spending and stays unified. So it was kind of an explicit message, I think, to, to Trump, or rather, you know, the Trump era doubts about Article Five. And that's right in line, of course, with, you know, with the Estonian messaging. So, yeah, I mean, it was, it was an interesting article, but I didn't see anything that was shattering there.

• 37:27Speaker 07

  So Putin is seventy-three, just looked it up, unfortunately, still young. And I think the guy is reportedly like super into longevity and all that stuff, you know, we just make statements about it. Quite often, so to the point of the article, I didn't get a chance to read it, I was doing the other podcast when he sent it out. But I would say this, it's easier from an intelligence assessment to say the status quo is going to remain the status quo. Right, because it's something has to actually happen dramatically, especially when it comes to regime change for that to be the case. But there are a lot of things that could lead to it. So, I mean, Andy already pointed out, one, he's eliminating a whole generation of Russian males.

• 38:12Speaker 07

  And they all have moms and that matters everywhere, including Russia. The mother factor, even in the regime of Russia, has a, has a major factor. Is it enough to bring down the regime? Probably not, because they're brutally oppressive if they have to. But that's why they're so, they're talking about the oligarchs, right? The oligarchs and senior members of his government could eventually get to a point where it's like, this is just destroying the entire country. And we're not winning. And the longer it goes on, something I would say, the longer it goes on, the chances of Ukraine advancing and getting more lethal and having direct impacts on every aspect of Russian

• 38:57Speaker 07

  society, right, because they're going to have longer range strikes. It's going to cause more fuel shortages, power outages, etc., as they get better and better. And we all, I think, expect that whoever comes in next after this administration is probably going to support, hopefully, hopefully, I guess, I guess, we shouldn't say we know. But it could be a major increase in support for Ukraine. So they have, Ukraine does have a lot of things going for them. And Putin's only real response to it is, let's kill a bunch of civilians by launching cruise missiles into apartment complexes, which is horrible and every one of them is a war crime.

• 39:38Speaker 07

  And every time they do it, they make the resolve in Ukraine a stronger. So I would say the quagmire that Putin's got him into, the decimation of a whole generation, and potentially pressure from adjacent power structures could lead to it. But weird things have happened. But we'll see, I can't make a prediction, but I hope that we are putting our thumb on the levers that are making this more likely, put it that way. Like a lot. He's the biggest threat.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  It's interesting. There's a lot of context, actually, in Russian history, especially Soviet history, post-Stalin. If people remember, you know, after Stalin, there was kind of a change in internal politics inside Russia, trying to figure out, how do we live now that Stalin is gone? And Barya was in charge and there was some restructuring that Barya did that was not popular with people like Khrushchev and Malinkov, who eventually actually ousted Barya from the party. And that's kind of the type of palace coup context that we could probably look back toward to see how did that occur? Because it's still in part of the Russian common memory, the cultural memory. And it's also in Estonian cultural memory, because Estonia was part of the Soviet Union during that time when that coup occurred. It's not technically called a coup today,

• 41:01Speaker 03

  but it's similar to what you would consider a palace coup. And it's very, the reasons are also similar. Dissatisfaction with how the government leadership under Barya is happening, because it's harming elites that are, that were initially benefiting and now are no longer benefiting from those policies. And they have the ability to do something, whereas, as you mentioned, the people on the street do not. They could try, but they would be stopped. I mean, how many, is it 500,000 Russian men have died in Ukraine so far? That's an incredible number outside the country. And that shows how, how little Putin cares for the people of his own country. You know, so those people on the streets will not be able to actually do anything. It would be very similar to a Barya ousting that happened already in the 50s.

• 41:47Speaker 05

  I got a question. Is an article like this with the chief, the intel chief of Estonia, right, when like, I'm sure he's taken very seriously by our NATO allies and ourselves, right? They're right there, they're on the front line. And like their whole thing is about, you know, worrying about Russia, what Russia is going to do. Is his whole thing doing this article kind of like, kind of like a message to the elites in Russia, like, hey, if you guys are interested, we're available. You know, whether it's like where you're going to pick up guns and shoot Putin, or you're just going to give us information on what's going on. Is it kind of like a way to either signal to the Russian elite that like, hey, we're open for business and also kind of

• 42:30Speaker 05

  use up more of the like FSB bandwidth in terms of like, oh, is somebody fucking around and like talking to foreign intel and stuff like that and working against us? Like, let's burn some of our resources doing that. Instead of sabotage.

• 42:44Speaker 07

  All the above. All the above. Multiple reasons for doing that. He covered a couple of them. It's also telling everybody else that, at least in his assessment, which I would imagine is based on some credible intelligence, that Putin is under challenge. So it's, it's trying to promote the idea that he is. It's trying to promote the idea that the elites could cooperate with us to facilitate it coming about.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  If you guys had to bet money, would, do you see Russia mobilizing? More people, more men?

• 43:20Speaker 07

  What's the option? I mean, if the option is like either accept the current state, which isn't going well for them, and then likely will start becoming even less well for them. Or they do something dramatic. But of course, mobilizing that many that didn't just get thrown right in the meat grinder could, you know, from Putin's perspective, make it far more likely that he gets, he's hanging from a light post. Right, so eventually, how many people has to be? I mean, what is the, what is the life expectancy now on the battlefield? It's like 30 minutes.

• 43:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 07

  Like, when is the people of Russia going to say, well, yeah, if I protest, they're going to kill me, but I'm going to die anyway. You know, maybe I can save the next generation, maybe I can save my little brother. Like, when does that happen? Like, I'm going to go ahead and fight the, fight the man right now rather than getting, you know, shish kebab by a drone and the dome boss, so my little brother, who's going to be eligible to be sent there in three years, doesn't have to. I mean, what would you do? I, I mean, I think we should really promote that, you know, idea that like, it's time to step up rather than, you're going to lose your life anyway. Young, not connected Russian man. Are you going to do it to save your brother? Or are you going to do it just because Putin can't figure out

• 44:39Speaker 07

  how to get out of something he started? And you're just fodder, piece of fodder.

• 44:46Speaker 05

  Um, I had a question, I forgot it, sorry.

• 44:51Speaker 07

  And of course, I mean, I know we're trying, we deliberately didn't want to just talk about Iran, because we talk about it all the time. But we did hit the six months mark. So that was a big topic this week, six months. It seems to be focused primarily, and if you're cool with this, D, I was just going to throw a little bit about Iran stuff, but it seems to be focused primarily on the economic aspect, this economic D-Day. It's unclear to me, actually, how much was actually implemented. Like when, when the Treasury Secretary gave the, you know, I've been pushing this, people who follow the show, I've been pushing this for a while.

• 45:31Speaker 07

  But then when I was listening to the press conferences, it sounded like a lot of it wasn't happening theoretically, we might, we might, we might. I don't know if you guys are tracking that we're doing more, but like, okay, well, why do we announce this stuff? And then, I know we, we sanctioned some individuals, some companies, etc., but it seems like a lot of the major aspects, we just put on hold. Is that your?

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, on OFAC's website, I was looking actually that same day to see, did they publish some new actual sanction documents? And there were no new substantive sanctions that were separate from what we'd already been working with. And it actually seems more like the US is trying to ask other countries to enforce existing sanctions. Because that's really the challenge, we've talked about that, is we can make sanctions all day, but if the activity is happening in another country, there's very little we can do economically to enforce those sanctions unless the partner nation or the host nation agrees to commit their own resources to doing something to assist with that sanction enforcement.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  So the Trump administration lied? I'm shocked.

• 46:39Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, I guess they have held off. I guess they've held off. I just don't know why you'd announce it as. I mean, China has to participate for this to have maximum effect. They buy like eighty percent of their energy, so. And I think China already came out and said.

• 46:56Speaker 05

  Why would they?

• 46:58Speaker 07

  So, and they don't want to do something too disruptive because, you know, President Xi is coming up the US here. So we probably just stalemate here until after the elections. But that doesn't mean Iran can't.

• 47:09Speaker 05

  We're too busy like trying to strong arm Canada too. Which, you know, if anybody was following that, it was absolutely ridiculous. Like, some of the things that we were, we were demanding are just. Like, who the fuck, like, that's, honestly, if I'm Canadian, I'm telling the US to go fuck themselves too, frankly. Like, who are you to dictate to us? Our sovereign, like, domestic, like? Who are you? You just, because you guys buy a lot of shit from us? It's not our fault, you're fucking consumers. And that's all we're really good for, frankly. Uh, I mean. Yeah. So I'm not really surprised to go back to the economic D-Day. That nothing really happened and they made a big show of it just to get some headlines. Not really surprised by that, by this administration.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Well, inside Iran, domestic politics-wise, President Poseschkin is even more vocally opposed to what's going on with the US-Iran relationship. In other words, he is promoting diplomacy. He thinks, he has said on Iran-controlled media that the Iranian government should be pushing for diplomacy to end the war. Which is a very different narrative than others that we've mentioned, like Galli-Bach, Bahidi, and others that are now in control. There was, there was a reshuffle of people in power. I'm not sure if people had noticed that in June, uh, through now, where after the Supreme Leader, quote-unquote, took control, a lot of new IRGC people that most are unfamiliar with, uh, rose to the top and took over, and they're much more extreme and,

• 48:35Speaker 03

  uh, willing to basically die on the hill that they're, they're on right now. And Poseschkin is basically shouting at them and saying, please stop. We need the country to get back to, to order so that we can manage our own domestic issues. Because I think Poseschkin is looking at this long-term and he's saying, we had unrest from October last year through January, when the massacres occurred. We're gonna have unrest again if, if prices continue going the way they are. And they will go the way they are if we continue at this stalemate. So Poseschkin is pushing for some concessions on the Iran side. And a lot of the others in the Iran government are not promoting that, they're not supporting that. So there, there's division within the domestic politics of Iran that are important to keep an eye on.

• 49:15Speaker 07

  Because the economy is really, really stressed. So we should point that out. They, they're, I mean, inflation, uh, what's the real now? It's like two point two million.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Over two hundred thousand tomons, which is, it's like six times more than it was five years ago. Which is really incredible because five years ago was already dramatically high. You know, the price of an iPhone there is something like eight thousand dollars right now.

• 49:39Speaker 07

  Wow. I mean, so we, they're, they are under economic strain. Like Jonathan pointed out, that was the purpose of the protests or the reason. So it's gonna get worse and worse and worse because the blockade, because everything else that goes with it.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  And the economy is a unifying principle. So there may be disagreements inside of Iran or any country about what's going on. But there's one thing everybody can agree on, it's that they don't want to spend more money on stuff. So these camps that don't normally agree can have that and come together. And that's, there were gasoline protests a few years ago because there were gas lines. And this is the thing in Iran, gas is actually subsidized, so it's still cheap now. And there's been this back and forth about should, should the Iranian government stop the gas subsidy? And the reason they have not is because they know that last time they did that, they had some of the largest protests in their history. It, countrywide, it was very dramatic and almost got out of control. And they don't want that to happen again, but it might have to because you, you can't just keep printing money unless you want to be using Mobway

• 50:37Speaker 03

  and have a one trillion dollar bill, right?

• 50:41Speaker 07

  Yep. And, I mean, you could do without an iPhone, maybe, but you can't do without a tomato, right? They get, they, the, the inflation for food has gone through the roof. They have to eat. So, yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  Even back in May, there were people that had to take out a payment plan to buy yogurt at the grocery store. Like, the stores actually had informal payment plans because they understood the issue with the currency at the time.

• 51:09Speaker 05

  I mean, realistically, how long do you think Iran can hold on economically if it stays like this or gets worse?

• 51:17Speaker 03

  Well, Iran is not a monolith, and that's the problem. The government can hold on for a long time because it's kind of like the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Vietnam. While we're bombing Vietnam, there's this whole Ho Chi Minh Trail going on and they're just resupplying themselves. And it's very similar, if you think about that metaphor, with the elites have access to resources outside of Iran. So if all of our stuff is focused on inside of Iran, the elites are gonna survive because they're drawing all their energy and power from somewhere else. Whereas the people in Iran are the regular people, the everyday people. They, they will suffer, they will die, they will starve, they will have mass unrest, there'll be all kinds of problems soon. But the government will still be able to protect itself very long-term. And they're committed to doing that. Even people like Poseschkin, who sounds like he's opposed to the policies, he's going to survive too.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  You know, so there's definitely a difference between this very small group of people who can last for a very long time and everybody else.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:13Speaker 05

  You think we're doing anything in terms of, uh, trying to arm them?

• 52:18Speaker 05

  Not just the Kurds?

• 52:19Speaker 03

  Doesn't, doesn't appear to be.

• 52:20Speaker 05

  I mean, isn't that crazy? Are we nuts? Like, we already are, you know, burning through our Patriots and Thad missiles and all of our, if there's any left, political will in the region, uh, to not be doing this covertly or at least trying to do it, or at least taking it seriously, to me, sounds fucking insane.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  The amount of time it would take to arm, train, equip an actual fieldable force is way beyond the time horizon of the time we have right now. It would be years to get the, a large enough force. I mean, the IRGC has several hundred thousand active members. There are hundreds of thousands of reserve members. The Basij has up to two million people that can be called into duty now. That's a huge, huge opposition force that has to be balanced against. It can't just be small groups of tribal fighters like it was in the eighties against the Soviets and the Afghan, uh, government that we, that we produced under Operation Cyclone. And it won't be like Timberstikamore in Syria. Like, we're talking about a very, very large surrogate force. If that was to be the case, that would take years to build, years to sustain, man and equipped.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  And then actually field, by the time that happens, the country might not even be the same country it is today.

• 53:26Speaker 05

  Right.

• 53:28Speaker 07

  From my take on, I don't know, or I wouldn't be talking about it, but I don't know. I would. These are all best done in comprehensive, uh, comprehensive approach, right? So if we decide we want to go, go with Iran, then we should be doing stuff like this. It's Jonathan's point. It's not gonna be, you know, dispositive on the outcome. But it could enhance what we're doing. We could have no, no-go zones for the regime, right? They could essentially start blocking out parts of the country, um, that they can control, but not really challenge, you know, the multi-millions of people they would have to go through to bring down the regime. But it's, it's, it's not necessarily one or the other.

• 54:08Speaker 07

  So you have military, economic, internal, from the, uh, inside the regime. And then, uh, and then a covert program and an influence covert program we should be doing too, right? Because it's, um, covert ops, although, you know, most people think of actual ops, um, or like action-type stuff, is also influence, propaganda and all the other stuff. It, the way the NSC should work, um, it should be a comprehensive plan that supports each other just for a stated political objective or strategic, you know, objective. So if it's starting now, just because we've decided we can't, it doesn't, it doesn't work to do just airstrikes?

• 54:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, too little, too late.

• 54:52Speaker 07

  Of the way it, you know, it should work. And that's what, that, and, you know, to, to stick up for, for my old outfit a little bit. That's a concern that the agency gets is like, well, we tried diplomacy, that didn't work. We tried the military, that didn't work. So it's like, you know, that burning dumpster outside, that's yours, right? It's like, wow. So it's already like a complete failure and they can't figure it out, so they hand it to the agency. It needs to be like, uh, you know, the agency needs to be there from day one. And what they can provide to the overall security, national security effort is just part of, you know, the military, diplomatic, economic, uh, you know, the whole dime influence, uh, aspect.

• 55:34Speaker 05

  I'm kind of disappointed that it, this hasn't been a thing like from like the start of five years ago. Maybe not right after the JCPOA and stuff like that, but like in the, like the Trump one years, like why this wasn't. Or maybe twenty nineteen when they had the big protests and stuff like that, why we didn't start doing that from then? Just getting them guns, getting them guns and seeing what happens.

• 55:54Speaker 07

  I mean, yeah, I mean, the, the other thing is if you set the bar, like it has to be able to top of a regime, then it's not a good.

• 56:00Speaker 05

  That's an impossible bar, yeah, I mean.

• 56:02Speaker 07

  Look, look what Iran does. Did Hamas ever have a chance to, to, to take over Israel? But they still funded them, right? I'm not saying that's a good thing, obviously, that's a horrible thing, but you see, it doesn't have to be.

• 56:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, it doesn't have to be one for one, yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. We just want them to.

• 56:20Speaker 03

  The zones of influence you're talking about, that's what Hezbollah was in South Lebanon for Iran. Where they didn't really care about the Christian North. That wasn't part of the mission. The mission was to control the South and create a buffer between Israel and this space. And that cost them a billion dollars a year. The IRGC budget, funding that surrogate force, a billion dollars a year.

• 56:42Speaker 05

  And now we keep paying for aircraft carriers, right, Andy?

• 56:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, we're we're no longer, you know, we're not fighting to prevent a crisis. We're fighting to undo the one that arguably the crisis that the war has created, you know? And I mean, we've talked about, I think we've all kind of come to a consensus here, at least on among the co-hosts on this show that it isn't one tool, right? But each one has to be done and integrated in a in a in a more smarter way. And so, for instance, I mean, and then we talked about the role of sanctions, the fact that rolling targeted, really specifically rolling targeted sanctions

• 57:33Speaker 06

  that I that continuously investigate sanction, investigate sanction, you know? So it's always closing the aperture. It's a more effective way to do than what we have to, which is issue them in tranches, announce them, and then never really plug the gaps. We talked about the failures of the military campaign, why they have failed, you know? They the the goals have been unrealistic, and the way we've gone after those goals has has not been the best way to do it.

• 58:07Speaker 06

  You know, being being a little more focused than that, we talked about cyber, what could be done in terms of cyber operations, understanding the downside, of course, of exposing your hand. We've talked about covert action, you know, the fact that it takes a long time to get to to raise a to to have effect normally, but to mixed point, you can still make things uncomfortable for your enemy by, again, narrowing your aperture, having less ambitious goals, but focusing on certain segments and spheres of influence. But we don't seem to even be able to do one of those things coherently, let alone do them all coherently and in an integrated manner,

• 58:51Speaker 06

  which is truly what a campaign, an effective campaign requires. Instead, what we're doing is this kind of, okay, let's just, let's see who blinks first. You know, let's, let's gamble on Iranian economic collapse, which is unlikely to happen for the reasons that John just gave us,

• 59:11Speaker 06

  and hope that that happens before it costs Washington more. In the meantime, you know, we're watching

• 59:21Speaker 06

  not just, you know, interceptors are the big story, munitions, but just the

• 59:28Speaker 06

  extended, the effect of the degrading influence that extended deployments have on our military readiness. I mean, there is a cost, obviously, for on us for all of this. It may not be as readily apparent as the economic cost to Iran, but nevertheless, it's a real cost, especially when we have obligations elsewhere.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  Man, all right. Great way to end it. Great summary, Andy, as usual. I knew you would come through.

• 59:55Speaker 06

  Good job, Andy.

• 59:56Speaker 05

  Tell us about your book, Andy. What's the title?

• 59:59Speaker 06

  Well, it's The War in Gaza. All right, suspend judgment, guys. You know, read some of the

• 1:00:09Speaker 06

  on Substack, I've I've already published a few of the chapters as a preview. They're also available on LinkedIn and on Twitter.

• 1:00:20Speaker 06

  I think, I think it's going to be, and I've read books on Gaza that have come out, and who knows what will come out between now and when my book is published in the spring. But I think it is the most robust effort. I notice I say effort, I'm not banging my chest too hard, robust effort to do a real, really thorough analysis of what happened and why preceding the war on October the 7th itself and the the war since then, to include

• 1:00:55Speaker 06

  the war against Iran, you know, the wider conflict.

• 1:01:00Speaker 06

  So, please, yes, go out and buy it. Well, you can't buy it yet, but commit yourself to pre-buy.

• 1:01:07Speaker 05

  Take a look, yeah, keep your eyes out for those preview chapters.

• 1:01:11Speaker 06

  Substack are free and will remain so.

• 1:01:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, the the link to Andy's Substack is down in the description. The link to find Mick and the Whitefish Security Summit is down in the description. John Hack, his two incredible books are down in the description.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  I'll say that's my, this book, Theory of a Regular War, which was my first one, actually, this is my dad's copy, that's why it's so messed up, because he was reading it. But it's coming out as an audiobook in like a month or two, so people can listen to it, because it's a little dense and I don't really read much, but it'll, no, it's.

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  He doesn't read out, he doesn't read out loud.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's a guy that's that's doing it. He's the same guy that narrated the Iran's Shadow Weapons, so that'll be very, his name is Hennessy. It'll be a good one, I think.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  But yeah, so I'm writing a third one, too.

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  I know, you told me about that, sounds like an incredible story, too. I don't know if you want to kind of tease it at all, but it sounds like a really cool story.

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  True story about how I met my wife in Iraq when ISIS was there, and she's an Iranian refugee. And we had a pretty interesting way of getting out of Iraq, so I'm gonna put that on paper eventually soon.

• 1:02:21Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  I'm gonna say it here, so I make sure I finish it completely. I have a book coming out, too. It's fiction. It should be coming out.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  It's interesting.

• 1:02:32Speaker 05

  Thanks, John, yeah. It should be coming out in the end of October.

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, stay tuned. It's pretty incendiary, so some of you guys might not like it, but that's just life sometimes. So, you know, look out for that.

• 1:02:46Speaker 06

  I mean, not like that, everyone likes the, but I meant incendiary.

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I mean, it's probably debatable on whether everybody likes me or not, too. But again, don't give a fuck.

• 1:02:57Speaker 06

  Again, who cares, yes.

• 1:02:58Speaker 05

  So, guys, check out all the guys' links down in the description. Of course, Mick's got another podcast called The Pub on the Porch, Applied Stoicism. Really cool pod, they just did one about The Odyssey. Check it out. And support us on Patreon, patreon.com/the team house. You get ad-free episodes and early episodes, and you help support the show. So, guys, a pleasure as always.

• 1:03:21Speaker 06

  Thanks.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Dupixent to Dupilumab is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

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  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

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  911, what's your emergency?

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  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions.

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  Wilson swarms upon you and upon your people.

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  And somebody's unleashing him on Nashville.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:05:22Speaker 06

  Hi, everyone.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, that sounds fun, to, in this weather, what if my asthma acts up? I got tired of saying no. So my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:05:41Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

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  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:07:08Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:07:13Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

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• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:09:14Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:09:20Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:11:18Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:13:29Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:14:48Speaker 00

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder warnings.

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:15:29Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:17:40Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:17:47Speaker 00

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:18:58Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:19:40Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:19:43Speaker 00

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:19:45Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:21:06Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:21:47Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:21:50Speaker 00

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:21:53Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:23:12Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:23:51Speaker 00

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:23:54Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:23:57Speaker 00

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:23:59Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  Dupixent, Dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:24:52Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency?

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  Please help us, they're everywhere! We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:25:57Speaker 00

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:26:00Speaker 04

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:26:03Speaker 00

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 1:26:13Speaker 00

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:26:24Speaker 04

  Making plans with asthma can be awful. It always goes from, "That sounds fun," to, "In this weather, what if my asthma acts up?" I got tired of saying no, so my doctor suggested Dupixent. I'm Rachel, and I'm sponsored by Regeneron in Santa Fe to share my story with real patients like me.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  Dupixent, dupilumab, is an add-on prescription maintenance treatment for adults and children six years and up with moderate to severe eosinophilic or oral steroid-dependent asthma that's not controlled with current asthma medicines. Dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems.

• 1:26:50Speaker 04

  Dupixent helps people breathe better in as little as two weeks. And now, I don't even think twice about saying yes to plans more, rain or shine.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, wheezing, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of signs of inflamed blood vessels like rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, brown or dark-colored urine, tingling or numbness in limbs. Tell your doctor of new or worsening skin symptoms, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 1:27:17Speaker 04

  Do more with less asthma. Ask your asthma specialist about Dupixent by name. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT.

• 1:27:24Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A-plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere.

• 1:27:59Speaker 04

  We think they're murder warnings. 911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Owls since swarmed upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Philippi joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. I felt a jackhammering pain in my jaw. Like someone sawing my bones.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Barbed wire in my shoulder. Like a cattle prod in my hip. Like I put my foot in a blender.

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  Pain is different for everyone. But where pain starts, Gernavix Suzetragine begins. Gernavix is a non-opioid 50-milligram prescription tablet for adults with moderate to severe acute pain that reduces pain signals before they reach the brain. Before those signals tell the brain to feel... Like I punched an angry beehive. And pain reduction can finally begin. Do not take Gernavix with CYP3A inhibitors. Avoid use with grapefruit or liver problems, as these may increase side effects. Tell your doctor about all your medicines if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Gernavix may make certain medicines and birth control less effective. Side effects include itching, muscle spasms, rash, and elevated muscle enzymes.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  To learn more about Gernavix, ask your doctor, call 1-833-589-PAIN, or visit gernavix.com.

• 1:29:22Speaker 04

  In business, there's the easy way with Staples or the hard way. Hard means... Jen, did you get the weekend specials menus from the printer by any chance? No, they said they'll be done on Monday. But they're weekend specials. Easy means Staples same-day custom printing, where same day means same day. Hard means... Our new brochures are back from the print place.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  So how do they look?

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  Well, our logo is brown.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  But our logo isn't brown.

• 1:29:44Speaker 04

  It is now. Easy means custom prints, perfectly printed. Don't choose hard, choose Staples. That was easy. Shop Staples online, in-store, or in the app.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.