Talking DeepSeek & TikTok w/ Security Expert Shannon Miller | EYES ON PODCAST

Today we're join by security expert and contractor Shannon Miller to deep dive on DeepSeek & TikTok and whether they really are a national security threat. Find Shannon here⬇️ https://www.lockdownyourlife.com/ Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Find Andy Milburn here: ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 https://amilburn.substack.com/ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social https://open.substack.com/pub/amilburn/p/journal-of-a-plague-year?utm_source=app-post-stats-page&r=emo6q&utm_medium=ios Find Mick Mulroy here: ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ https://x.com/MickMulroy?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.social Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:38Speaker 01

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes On. Today I'm joined by Shannon Miller and Jason Lyons, of course, one of our stalwarts, one of our anchors. I'm Dimitri. Shannon Miller, you can find her at lockdownyourlife.com. She's a former, she's a security expert and security contractor. And we brought her here today to talk specifically about what's going down with all these Chinese apps, DeepSeek, TikTok, what it really means in terms of our national security. Is it an overhyped threat? Is it not? And the big news this week was DeepSeek coming out with an AI model that is rivaling ChatGPTs and outperforming it in some aspects too.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  It called out of China, it cost them six million where compared to OpenAI's GPT-4, it cost them like 80 ish million to make.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  You saw this, what's went down in the stock market too, like a bunch of AI stocks and Nvidia all took a shit yesterday.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  People are reacting because, you know, the AI companies are over, I would say over financed. So yeah, what's going on? Is it going to end the world? DeepSeek, Shannon, tell us everything you know.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Um, I think it challenges the premise that only big, well-capitalized companies can make a breakthrough in the sector of AI. So like you have leading tech firms like OpenAI saying that. You know, they spent billions of dollars on artificial intelligence and saying that you have to scale, like that the the future of AI is scale and DeepSeek kind of undermines that entire theory that you have to spend all this money on scaling via data centers and and training models. They've done it for a fraction of the cost and that that's what they say anyway. So the assumption is that it's going to perform as well or better than OpenAI against the same benchmarks. So that's what's got everyone freaked out in the market and why they stripped 1.2 trillion off of the stock market,

• 2:31Speaker 02

  which yay, frankly, these large companies are are selling this technology, OpenAI specifically is selling this technology to government and they're they're lobbying politicians and public policy institutions to say this is the only way you can do AIs at scale. Whereas this model says you can do it through through a combination of open source and already existing language models. So now I am not an AI expert. I am doing all of this at the same rate as everyone else, which is daily. It's a fire hose of news and of AI and like the story changes every 24 hours. So this is a very dynamic and flexible industry, but like anything else in tech, it's breakable. So.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  So I tried to watch a video like two days ago about this whole thing. And I made it halfway through and I I my eyes were bleeding. I couldn't understand it. So you you just use the term scaling a couple of times. Can you explain a little bit?

• 3:26Speaker 02

  So for scaling, they're talking about using AI for your all of your products, injecting AI into every single facet of online life, whether it's through news searches. So like Google has Gemini, it has the Gemini assistant on your phone. Whether you want it or not, it's there, just like Meta AI has has it on Instagram. They have it on Facebook. They have it. It propagates your search results. So when they're talking about scale, they're they're literally talking about installing AI into everything, whether you've asked for it or not. Not every product benefits from AI in a way that I think they think is effective. AI can be used as a tool to help humans do their jobs more efficiently. It should not replace humans for a lot of the things because a lot of AI sorting, a lot of AI,

• 4:07Speaker 02

  they use it for like labeling and community monitoring on social platforms as well. A lot of the times like they get it wrong and it still has to be reviewed by a human. So what you're asking AI to do is to be human when it's not. So when you talk about scaling, you're talking about billions, billions of dollars of power, energy, resources being put to AI platforms, data centers that that take, you know, drinking water from the local population that take power resources and also create carbon emissions. So you've got you've got multiple levels of issues here with when you're scaling AI. Whereas the smaller model uses less energy, is more efficient and is partially open source. So you've got you've got a lot of factors involved here and they're all connected.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Gotcha.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Does that answer your question? I'm sorry, it felt like that kind of.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  No, it does. No, it really does. Um, like I said, I I got halfway through this video and I'm correcting if I'm wrong because I probably am. But um, just hate jumping back because I'm sure that most of our listeners know this stuff and I don't. But uh, the way it works, I guess, at least like chat GPT, I think that's what they were talking about. Or AI in general, it has to be taught, correct? Like we teach it.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  It's trained on data, but we don't know what data sets DeepSeek has used. And because um, ChatGPT and OpenAI is not, they have like kind of black box their technology. We don't know specifically what data sets they used, what information they're they're training off of. We're assuming they're stealing content, even copyrighted content to train the language model because we just don't know. And because of the things that ChatGPT regurgitates, you can kind of guess that, oh, it wouldn't know this unless it had trained off somebody else's information and product. So then you have copyright liability issues, you have trademark liability, you have all kinds of things sucked up by AI.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Wow, okay, thank you.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, like, you could tell, like, the hype is really there, you you know, even before DeepSeek came out, like, you hear the guy Sam Altman speak, it's like, you know, this could cure cancer, you know what I mean? Like, this could do, and listen, I hope it does, right? Like, I would like it to, but at the same time, the guy's raising money, like.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  It's a so he's got a

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Selling a product is what he is a salesman. What you have to remember is this is about business and profit.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  It's like, I don't think there are any guardrails currently on AI. There's no regulation. There's nothing that says who's gonna stop it from being abused or used for something bad. Like, there is geo AI, like, you can, you can use photos, upload photographs and find out where it is using AI, like specifically like geospatial intelligence photos. Things that shouldn't be available for those training models you can find online. That whether they were leaked or their old information or they're declassified, it doesn't matter. You are now using it to, you could use it to stalk somebody.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  That's the model I think about because I deal with tech-enabled abuse. This could be abused because there is no regulation. So.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, and you know, a few days back, Trump administration, it it's funny how they released the deep sea stuff after Trump. Announced some like a $500 billion investment over the next.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, $600 billion called Stargate, I think.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then deep sea drops like an A, like a basically, it's essentially at the same level as GPT four, maybe slightly better. And they try and it cost them six million bucks and it was like, kind of just like a.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, now remember, that's also propaganda. So it could cost significantly more, but it sounds like it costs significantly less than the investment that OpenAI has made. Or said they need to expand. So.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah. And if you look at it, like I've seen a couple of videos, like when you ask it about Tank Man or Tiananmen Square.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  It's not letting you, it doesn't give you information or it will give you a little bit of information. Sorry, this isn't available. Because it's out of China and stuff like that. So, uh, in terms of a security threat. It's a Chinese app that's a generative learning AI, right? So if Americans are using it. I would assume this is as much of a security threat as a thing like TikTok because we had the thing TikTok was going to be banned and then it didn't get banned. It got extended or whatever while.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  I, yeah, that's a, that's a work in progress. And every day I'm like, okay, what's coming next? Like, I just take it day by day. I don't actually know.

• 8:25Speaker 04

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• 9:55Speaker 02

  What's happening with TikTok in terms of what they're going to do or what they're not going to do? I do know they're going to divest of the, ByteDance has to divest and sell it to a US company. So it's not going to be the same TikTok. It's not going to be what the rest of the world uses and sees. So. In terms of a national security threat, I think it's negligible at this point because look at the US government using it as a tool of propaganda themselves. So we know the systems of propaganda, Jay and I do. Like this is US propaganda. You don't think we engage in the same, excuse my language, shit that China does? We do. We just spot it better now because we are aware of it. The more aware you make the American public about these issues via like these conversations we're having. Okay, so if it's such a national security threat, you still have other tools being allowed in.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  You still have, you know, people being able to access Chinese apps and there's workarounds for everything. So if it's really a, it's a threat to your messaging more than it is to your security because Chi- the Chinese government already has a lot of data on us. They, they're, they vacuum up every little shred of information they can get, but so does the US government. So I guess you have to look at it from both sides and say, I'm not both sided in this. I'm saying you have to look at it holistically and say, what is a greater threat? Is it a greater threat to American messaging? Calling it a national security threat? They just want the algorithm. What will they do with that algorithm? What does the US want that algorithm for? How will they use it? So I think about it like, I'm not a China hawk. I'm not a Chinese expert.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  That's, that's not my gift, but I can understand the bigger picture from the 10,000 foot view of like, who is threat, who is being threatened by it and why is that important? What is the end goal? Look at what they're trying to achieve with it. So for China, like TikTok is global. So they've banned it in multiple countries and people still work around it. They created an account for another country and get a SIM card and a phone from another nation. Okay, that's easy. So I guess I, I don't think that's a good argument. You're not going to convince people that national security is part of the issue with TikTok. Now with, with deep seek, I don't know. Any, all the, all the data collected by the app so far that I've seen goes to the Chinese servers. So long-term, that's an issue for sure. Um, but censorship happens through all AI products. There's, there's censorship on all of them.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  There's bias in all the training algorithms. So you have to think about the data sets that it trains on creates bias within the AI chat bot, within the AI algorithm, within the AI bot itself.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, man. Uh, so like, yeah, they're trying to find a buyer for TikTok. There was mention about like Oracle, Microsoft, Musk. The guy from Shark Tank, Kevin O'Leary, I think, put together a group that's trying to buy it as well.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know why, like you said, you mentioned it, there's so many Chinese apps in the App Store. That are not getting the heat that ByteDance is, you know what I mean? And then at the end of the day, there's still Chinese owned companies that own these apps and it's. And, and again, like you said, even if the US, a US company bought it, like, it's not like. They're gonna give a shit about our privacy.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, like.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Not once, not a bit, because there is no federal privacy law. If you want to get into my niche area, this is what I study day in and day out. There is no federal privacy law. If they gave a shit about your privacy and data collection, US data specifically. Is the most valuable asset they have, it's worth a lot. And if you devalue it, if it gets sold to other countries, then they can't make a profit off of you. Every citizen has a certain amount of value number on them in terms of their data. And US data brokers propagate all of that information. They resell it. They sell it to law enforcement. They sell it to back to the US government. They sell it to foreign. Foreign companies. So you have to think about how, what, what, what are they trying to make a profit off of?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  What are, what is getting devalued by having something like DeepSeek disrupt the industry or TikTok disrupt the industry? Because all the US tech companies, especially social media platforms, whether it's, you know, Twitter, I will never call it X. Whether you have Twitter or whether you have LinkedIn owned by Microsoft, you have these mega corporations that own all your social media. You're renting property on their servers, basically. You don't own any of that. And what are they doing with your data? Hasn't Facebook and Meta violated our privacy year on year on year? And people, and the, one of the biggest proponents to push TikTok out of the market was Mark Zuckerberg. So I trust him about as far as I can throw him.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  So I mean, I could throw him, but that being said, like, I don't trust any of them. I don't trust Musk. Look at what they've done.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Look at what they're doing. Like, no one can justify what's being done. I'm sorry.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  What's what's interesting about that is like Zuckerberg and Meta is not like they're not really being mentioned in terms of like trying to buy TikTok. Which I would think like, why wouldn't they?

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Because it's a competitor.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, but so now why not buy them? You know?

• 14:46Speaker 02

  I think it doesn't serve him. He's just, he just wants to, um, I think they just want to break it apart and sell it off. That's kind of what they're doing with the United States itself. They're like, let's sell it off to the highest bidder.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Hmm, okay.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Right? They're doing that with the company. So once they buy TikTok, what are they gonna do with it? They're gonna scrap it for parts because it's not gonna be the same app it was. They didn't. They're not necessarily getting the algorithm. The algorithm is is where the value is, is the algorithm. It's not the platform itself. We have video platforms. We have Instagram. We have. You know, YouTube is trying to do shorts and stuff, but like you don't have a platform like that here. So they like, they want the video based platform, but it's not gonna be the same thing.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  So basically, it's basically it's break it up and then build it something different based on that, uh, um. What's the word I'm looking for for that, uh, that basis, that base of TikTok, something like that, but generic to us is what you're saying?

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. So that's the intention, at least from what I've been reading. Again, I'm not making these decisions. I'm not in the room and I'm not on the board. But think about this. If Mark Zuckerberg wanted to buy it, he would. He thinks he can take that technology and put it into his own platforms. I mean, he's bastardized Instagram to the point where you can't even use it. It's non-functional. Like, he's made everything so AI-heavy and so like he keeps adding features no one asked for. We didn't ask for that. None of, none of the, all the users are like, what the, what are you doing? This is like impossible. Everybody's like, just delete it. It's just not worth your time. And I think what he thought would happen, I think maybe what they imagined would happen in Meta as a corporation was,

• 16:19Speaker 02

  oh, if we get rid of TikTok, everyone will flood back to our platforms. Instead, what they have found is that people are moving over to more independent platforms like Mastodon, Blue Sky. Um, they're going back to YouTube to do videos. They're finding different means, smaller communities to go to as in terms of social platforms rather than, you know, fleeing back to Meta. There is no meta there. There's they they can't see, no one can see what they post. So why would they?

• 16:44Jack Murphy?

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• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, you see what Matt is trying to do with like the reels and stuff. They're trying to like, kind of copy what TikTok does. But TikTok is like, if you ever used it, it's, it's kind of like mind numbing. You know what I mean? It's just constantly giving you, you don't have, you don't have a break. There's no break in it. And I do agree with you in terms like Instagram has definitely become like a cluttered mess.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  But yeah, I'm interested. Like, why wouldn't, he's got the money. Like, why not buy it for parts and own it? At least, at least own the name in the US. Cause I get it. Like, they're not gonna get the algorithm. So what's gonna happen is they're trying to buy the US side. And the, and ByteDance was

• 18:07Speaker 02

  The brand. They're buying the brand. It's essentially what it is. But like, is there enough heft in that brand? Or is it just that they want access to the data that buying the company would allow them? And if, if Meta already has that data, why would they buy it again? Right? So if you have the same users that were on Meta products also on TikTok, which is very common, there's overlap. For a lot of video users, they repost their TikToks on Instagram, which is what you normally see. So you have that like cross pollination, if you will. So I guess from a business standpoint, it does not make sense if he already has the capabilities with the other platforms he owns and he already has the data. Why would he? He was looking to eliminate it entirely. And what this does is that it basically waters down the brand of TikTok.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  And says, well, it's not really as usable as it once was. The algorithm is not good. The stuff that I'm seeing is not good. The value of TikTok is like, you see things, you curate your feed, if you will. You see the videos from people that you like and want to see. Whereas with Instagram, it's just like random accounts that you've never I don't know any of these people. I never see the people I follow. I follow like a thousand people and I never see their like seven days later, I'm seeing a video. Whereas with the TikTok algorithm, so you're dealing with um a very specific type of technology and a different user experience. So I think you would really have to dig into the brain of Zuckerberg and I don't particularly want to do that because it sounds rather horrifying. But I I just um, I think I think they're willing to burn it all down.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  No matter what the cost, everyone else, even if it's just technology itself, I don't think they care.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  I think they care about profit and power and money. That's what I think they care about and everyone else doesn't matter.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Let me add to this. This is more speculative, I guess. Let's say an American company buys TikTok, right? And the American TikTok users scrolling through TikTok, do you think they tell the difference between the algorithm? Let's say they leave it the same way, right? It just constantly flooding stuff. You don't have that thing where you're so right about Instagram where it's like absolute nonsense like on your. You know, it's like, where the fuck did this come from?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  I didn't ask to see chicken videos, but thanks. I appreciate the thought. It's great.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Think the American user will be able to tell the difference?

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Yes, because the people, the anecdotal stories I'm hearing, I'm not currently on TikTok in the US, so I don't know what's. I deleted my account or at least I set it to private because I don't, I can't access it. So like a lot of people, I deleted the app or I didn't update it or I'm just not accessing it right now. Cause I'm waiting to kind of see. I like to wait and see because a lot of the times the things people say are gonna happen don't happen quite the way they think. So uh, sorry, I went on a tangent. Get back to your point. What was your question? I tend to.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Will the American user, the TikTok user be able to tell the difference?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Yep. Um, I think, I think the experience so far has been, I I went back on like I accessed it via the web. Once they turned it back on after like the twelve or sixteen hours that it, they turned it off. And I was being served ads from Christian organizations, churches, uh, Trump people like. And if you know me, I am. That's not my thing at all. I'm I'm not involved in any of that. So I'm I'm not interested in religious content. I'm not interested in ads from brands that I would never buy from like. So that for me alone, the algorithm algorithm was off like it was serving me content from people I've never followed. I don't know.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Um, nothing of interest. So I I found it really interesting that the reset actually did more damage to my FYP or my for you page than anything else. So that was just my limited experience with scrolling. I was like, I don't know what is going on here, but I think it was just a delayed. Um, it was a little bit delayed for everybody with the service. Once you turn it off and then turn it back on again, it can take a little while. So. But from what I've been told, there has been a change in a lot of people's content. So what they're being served.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Interesting. Yeah, um.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Jay, you got anything?

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna ask um to dip a little bit into the world of your your company um. With speaking of these things, TikTok, um Instagram, all these things are these.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Are these things that you warn your clients against because of what they may be going through? I know each situation is unique, but you did mention. Um, I think you called tech-based abuse.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yes, tech-enabled abuse, yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Do you give them a little point or something that without giving away your TTPs that the listener might be able to use to, you know, caution themselves?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  I think every individual is a little bit different in how they use the internet and how they use their apps and for depending on the extremity of their situation. So I would say, I know we hate this, it depends, but depending on the severity of of the abuse, the stalking, the harassment. So um, I don't I don't know how much Dimitri knows about my background. Um, I've been working on in tech-based abuse and harassment and stalking cases for the last decade. So I do open source investigations. So what I do is like map digital footprints all day and. You know, find where the stalker is, where the harasser is, where the threats are coming from. So that's kind of my, my area of expertise in this. But um, I guess I, I caution people to limit what you provide publicly to people. There's, there's people who work on the internet

• 23:26Speaker 02

  for a living, who work online, just like I do, uh, who make a living off these apps, who are, you know, whether you want to call them influencers, or maybe they have brand deals and they have to record videos. There's oftentimes the risk of you are public because you have to produce content, just like you guys produce a podcast. Somebody could decide to target you for no reason because they didn't like something you said on the podcast, right? It's, there's sometimes rhyme and reason to it, and sometimes there's not. So I always caution, especially if they're being actively threatened, especially physical and online threats, to be very careful on the internet, to be careful on the apps, be careful what they disclose, to not disclose their location, to not, you know, film videos inside their house. Um, to be very careful about like, if they're traveling, to not advertise where they are, because it's very easy for somebody like me to look at the background

• 24:11Speaker 02

  of your profile photo and determine based on the direction of the sun and the foliage in the background where you are. So if, if you're as um, curious as I am, but you lack ethics, um, and you lack integrity, you are going to abuse that. So I think, like anything in tech, there is both um, really great things about technology and really bad things about technology. It's just, we have to put in that privacy and security and layer it in from the beginning. And I think too often, we in tech, we move on, it's that, I think it was even Zuckerberg who said it, that it was like, you know, move fast and break things. And instead of thinking about the consequences of what could happen, um, they, they make it, break it, and harm people along the way. And that's the problem.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Seems to be a theme these days.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Move fast and break things.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's unfortunate.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, my, my uh, son hates when I tell this story. Uh, when TikTok first came out, uh, his mom called me and said, listen, I think you need to talk to Chris. Um, he apparently.

• 25:21Speaker 04

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• 26:03Speaker 04

  Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensor. Learn more at extensor.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 26:13Speaker 00

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• 26:41Speaker 03

  Made a video with his buddy. They were young, really, really young, and made a video and it was some, I think it was like a chugging contest or something like that with juice or whatever. However, they did it in two parts. And the first one was standing right in front of their street sign and they were saying, "Oh, live from, you know, the town that they live in, the streets, the cross streets right there." And then the second part was right in front of his house. So you can see the house address. And so, you know, I had to give him a talk. So, I mean, that's a, I guess, a small...

• 27:16Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, vignette about it, but obviously, like you said, there are people who this is what they do. They go online and they so now if you balloon that out to um whole units in China and Russia.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  You know, it's it's kinda easy to imagine the kinda stuff that they're gleaning from, you know, like, take you times a hundred in a room somewhere in China, you know, and they're the the amount of data that they're pulling from us like with me, I know you said that you're not on it. Um, I'm not on it by choice TikTok, but even I I can't like on my phone. Because I have work stuff on my phone, if I download TikTok instantly, something will come up and say that my work um email and everything else doesn't work until I take it off again.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's good. At least that there that does that right, you know, um. So Shannon, you've worked with like influencers who have had like stalkers and stuff like that.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I have um it it varies the type of clients that I have, but I mean, I have one that's currently suing the federal government. So um they filed two lawsuits in the last two weeks and now they're being targeted and getting death threats. So um.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  These are people that run nonprofits. These are people that work in um, you know, in social justice. Uh, these are activists. These are people who are unhappy with the current system and think the things coming out of the government in the last week have been appalling and harming people. So um I get a wide variety. I've had everything from a college professor being targeted by a student to um like that was one of my least favorite cases, but yeah, he put uh he put messages in her car like like he accessed her cars. Um, he hacked her car and was leaving her messages on her dashboard. So um when I say technology is both a blessing and a curse, you really, again, you you have to think about all the ways

• 29:16Speaker 02

  that we put AI now into these products that are already a bit insecure. So it's it's. Yeah, there, there is no fix to this. We, we have let, we have opened Pandora's box and we have said, "Okay, let's see what happens." And we are now seeing in real time what happens. So, and unfortunately, you know, people like my clients get harmed and, and government employees are gonna get harmed by this because if they're on a list somewhere, or, um, you know, if you've been vocal about anything that you disagree with, um, I think that you could be targeted, unfortunately.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I, and you, I know you teach, uh, your, you teach classes like basics all the way up. So I'm assuming then as technology advances, you have to modify your classes. Cause I'm sure you have people who are like, "What the hell is AI?" You know, when you're trying to teach them these things, which would be me, so.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  No, I do. And I, I always try to come at it from, how does the end user experience it? The end user being like Jason or Dimitri or myself, like, how do we experience the technology? How do we use it in our daily lives? Do we use it because it's easy? Do we use it because it's accessible? Do we use it because we're addicted to it? I don't know. It doesn't matter what your use, use case is, but I try to approach it from, what are they thinking about how they use it and how do they approach it? And what scares them the most about it? Because we don't want them afraid. We want them using it in a smarter way. So like, it's just simple things like two-factor authentication. It's simple things like, um, what are they doing with my data? Just asking these questions and knowing what, where your information is going. You have a right to privacy.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  Everyone does. Like, I'm sorry, but every single one of us, I've heard people say they have nothing to hide. They're, they don't, they don't care if they're anonymized on the internet. They could just put their full name. And I said, "Do you want your full legal name out on the internet on everything that you say?" Assume anything you say online can be, uh, put in discovery. Be put in anything you say. So you have to really think about the model of the world that we're living in now is very different than it was two weeks ago. It's gonna change weekly, unfortunately, and the world that we're experiencing now is gonna require more tools and more training and more briefings, if you will, on what's coming. Because the last thing you want is a scared population. What you want is an educated population.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  So I, I try to approach it as somebody who also uses the same tools and how I'm navigating that and what that looks like. So, yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Said educated population in my mind. I was like, yeah, good luck. You know what it is? It's just like people are okay with giving like with giving up these things like their privacy. For convenience and for, you know, it's just a lot easier. They don't really think about it. And like you said, like, yeah, if people were really looking through your shit, you would not be like, oh, I don't care. I have nothing. Yeah, okay.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Everybody cares.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Everybody has somebody or something they want to protect.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  All of us.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  So.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  No, no, please.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, um, and I don't know that you mentioned it or not, but D you just talked about convenience. I was fascinated by the fact that in the weeks leading up to the brief shutdown of TikTok, how everybody like, I mean, it was like out of nowhere, Red Note. That whatever that Red Note like just came out of nowhere. Everybody hopped over to it. And then as soon as TikTok was back, it was like, everybody hop back. Now, do you know, um, once they hopped over to Red Note, like was it, does their information stay over there? Like if they created a Red Note account? Like, does that ever go away? I'm assuming not because it's technology.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Um, as far as I know, I have not read the terms of service of Red Note, nor am I on the app. So I I'm saying this from a I have not used it perspective. Um, my understanding is that the data that is collected and the information provided is on Chinese servers because it is a Chinese app out of China. It is available in the App Store though. So, you know, there's a lot of Chinese apps available in the App Store. So there's a lot of things that you have to consider when you use these. And I guess people are their their argument is for the people that use Red Note or are on Red Note was they already have my data and so does the US government. Who cares? That's the reaction you're getting and and I understand that kind of attitude I do. Sometimes I think it myself and like.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  But at the same time, I also have the national security background and I'm like, I cannot tell you how many armchair national security experts showed up on social media last week. I was like. And and suddenly, not only they're experts at, you know, football, but they're also experts at, you know. Niche Chinese policy, like Chinese propaganda. I'm like, okay, I'm not an expert at that. I don't claim to be. I have enough. Marbles in my brain rolling around going, well, that doesn't seem quite right. I guess my my reaction to things is like pause, think about it. What's the long term comp implications of this like? Yes, I'm on TikTok, but I'm also on YouTube. What is Google doing with my data? So I like, I have to think about it from like, I have to be both visible in my role in my company.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  But I also have to be private enough that I don't have somebody showing up at my door. So like, I have to balance that. It's a very fine line and you don't think I have a bug out plan. Oh, I do. Like, I have to prepare for these things because of the work that I do and because of the people that I encounter in my work. So. I think from that perspective, like I, it's just one less thing I have to think about if I'm not on the app, you know, I can reduce my social media access and use and the tools that I have. At my disposal and not expose myself on one more. So that's just my take. I'm not telling people what to do. They're gonna make their own choices and they're gonna be some people like me do the exact opposite of what you tell them. So.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  You you have to couch it in a way that's like, okay, so what does that mean? And uh, how are you using it? And what are you doing with it? And what put information did you already put out about yourself? That's also there. And what will they do with it? And that's how I evaluate it. But again, I have a different multiple caps in my on my head for this kind of thing. And other people are just approaching it from like. I just need a tool and I'm I work on social media. I make money off social media. What what else am I supposed to do? Right?

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I definitely don't disparage those who. I mean, if they went to Red Note, they went to Red Note because I know, like you just said, there are people who make their living. You know, off of social media platforms, which is just a weird. Social experiment to just watch it literally like lemons lemmings off a cliff like Tik Tok is gone. Hey, here's Red Note and everybody just flooded and I'm still trying to catch up on like, what the hell is Red Note? Like, I thought it was a dating site when I first heard it. Like, I had no idea.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Don't get me started on the dating platforms. I have a whole opinion about them. Don't even start on that.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  I actually, I actually heard some pretty wild. Let's get into it because I've heard some pretty wild info about the dating apps like, especially for guys. Like I've had Tinder and all that stuff, but I don't really use them. They say for the average guy, it takes up to 200 swipes to get a match. And of and in those 200, one out of five of your matches will go on a date with you. So you have to swipe a thousand times before you get to go on a date.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  I've never used.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  That's for guys. For for women, it's obviously a very different experience because they could swipe right and they're getting a match.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  I actually remember this like years ago, I was on my friend's phone, a girl's phone. And I was like, let me swipe, let me just swipe. I'm like, I'll bet you 100 bucks, every swipe you'll get a match. And every single swipe she got matched. So it's like a very different perspective for guys and girls on those dating apps.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  And you got to swipe a thousand times to go on one date.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  I mean, we could talk about the fact that a lot of the profiles on there are fake. We could talk about that there's AI now embedded in those apps. So if you want to make the connection here, you've got bots operating on those platforms like Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, Raya, that's one.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  Now, those bots that you're saying and mentioning, are those users are putting those on there or is that the app?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Both.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Both, okay.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  So what they don't tell you about their operating model is like, they operate at a loss. They get money from advertisements and premium subscriptions. So it's not really when we were talking about scaling, when you're trying to scale a dating app now, each one has its own, you know. Perspective and like ownership and stuff, but you know, the, the goal, the goal is to keep people on the app for as long as possible. So think about, you know, getting to those, the thousand swipes, Dimitri. How long are you on that? But, but I'm saying you're on that app for a long time.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  And you buy the premium in order to get to, to get, to be able to talk to somebody. So, and like, if the person you're talking to is a fake profile or a catfish, which is also a common thing. You know, you don't know, you really don't know. And like, also you have to look at it from a safety perspective. It's like, I could be talking to somebody on one of those apps. I mean, I have fake profiles on there for work, but I don't use it for myself. I don't need to. I'm like, not interested at all. But you know, you see it and you're like, okay, is this real? Is it like, you have to verify? So it's like, but you're on the app trying to verify that this is a real person you're talking to now. So it's like, now you have that seed planted in your head and you're like, oh, okay. Is this safe to do this? Like dudes, I think, I'm sorry, men in general have a different.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Safety model than women and when we're operating in the world. Cause like men will go meet up with somebody that they don't know in a city they've never been to. Random stranger with no security in, in place, like not thinking about, oh, I need an emergency phone call in the middle of this. I need your license plate. I need photographs. I need to make sure I have somebody on my speed dial in case something happens to me. Like, these are things women think about. Men are like, oh my God, it's a hot blonde. Yeah, let's go. Great. Let's meet for drinks at the bar. Nothing could happen to me. Dude, are you serious? Like you're meeting some random stranger in a bar? Like, okay. Me, I'm like, you, you do not want to meet me in a dark alley, but I'm not, I'm not the one, but there's other people like, like so delighted to, so cute. I'm like. Yikes, guys.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. What I've noticed on twi- on Tinder, and this is, I don't know if it's still the case. This is my, maybe two, three years ago.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  People you match with, like I would say, I honestly would say at least half would be, oh, let's talk on like WhatsApp or something else, or they'd be like, like, uh, follow my Instagram and stuff like that. And I'd be like, I'm not doing any of that.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yep. That's what I found. There was.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  That's a good indication that it's like a catfish or scam, because scammers get on there too. And they take you for money, like that you trade photos on WhatsApp, you know, photos, you know what I'm talking about? You trade photos, suddenly they got something to blackmail you with. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a nice try. Good luck with that.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  But you know, but you know what I mean? Like you, we've all seen it. It's all, we've all experienced it. It could happen to any of us. All of us have have fallen for a scam of some kind. Smart, educated, capable people with brains have done it. Like, we've all done it. So.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So don't go on Tinder anymore, Jason.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  No, that's not what I'm saying. Listen, it's, it's, it's your choice, what you do. Just, you know, proceed with the framework of, okay, is this person real? Is it safe? How am I going to verify this? Make sure it's okay to do so. Like, don't be creepy stalkery, but like, you know, verify that they're a real person and operate under the guidelines of that.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna.

• 40:39Speaker 04

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• 40:47Speaker 04

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• 41:29Speaker 04

  Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at Extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 41:39Speaker 07

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• 42:10Speaker 01

  Bye, I'm gonna get Tinder again. You convinced me.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Well, like, I've had better experience with like, as a fake persona, I've had a better experience with Bumble, but, you know, do what you will.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Bumble, oh yeah, Bumble's the one where the girl messages first.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  I'm so fucking old.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  I'm gonna download that one, too.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  That's a good idea.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  But they all cost money, that's the thing.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  They do.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  It's interesting, like, if you're a guy, right? And you have the free version of Tinder and you're swiping, you probably have like, I don't know how much, 10 or 20 swipes before they're asking you, "You want more swipes?" You gotta pay whatever it is. I don't even, it's like, I think it's definitely like 20 bucks a month or some shit like that.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  So they want you to just keep swiping.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  And never go on a date, probably, ever.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Yes, but also, like, it's hard to meet people. I don't know if you know, but since the beginning of the pandemic, it's hard to go out and meet people. It's hard to meet people in your community because like, our collective trauma over the pandemic and the things, the way we operate has changed. Our societal practices have changed. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, it's there. So like, the way that we conduct ourselves in public is, I think people don't know how to people anymore. They don't know how to have a conversation. They don't know how to be reasonable. Like, you're encountering a lot of different factors, including in the dating model. So like, I would not be on dating apps. That's just, that would be my choice. But again, that's for me. It doesn't, it's not for me to decide what's right for you.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  And to our listeners, you're getting charged for this free dating advice.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I've had success on dating apps where I've met like, normal human beings, which is great. I've met some non-normal human beings.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  It was a pretty interesting shit. I mean, but... It's interesting what they try and do unless they just try and get into that wallet because I was I remember I was around when Tinder was free like completely free when it first came out and they try to get scale and market cap or whatever um and then they turn that on off real quick I get it like you mean you gotta make money right but

• 44:12Speaker 02

  I mean this is the capitalist health scape that we live in so yes yes everyone has to earn money like I I don't I don't think any of us are like thinking I just want to work till the day I die I want to just profit till the day none of us most normal people are just like I just want to make enough to have a good life like we don't know work ourselves to the bone that's not the goal here so I I think you know that if we're gonna circle back to the AI very corporate term for you um if we're if we're going back to AI and we're saying you know does this help our quality of life does it hurt our quality of life does it help us as workers does it help the company or is it all just smoke and mirrors to ensure that people buy into it I mean I don't know about you but I've seen enough AI slop for a lifetime

• 44:54Speaker 02

  and that's what they call it is like the the AI art that they're creating but I mean I'm sorry the photos with people with like the hands with like the seven fingers like now AI is getting really good don't get me wrong the photography and imagery is getting great it's really really good it's improved immensely but it also makes it that much harder to detect deep fake videos and deep fake images and now you have AI voice to worry about so like your recorded voice can now be used to scam other people thinking that it's you so you have

• 45:22Speaker 01

  I have I have some uh some experience with that because Jack came out with a Jack from team house came out with a book right and I'm like yo we should make an audio book and he didn't want to read it so I'm like let's do like you can clone your his voice and have it do the audio book but even that was trash like if he goes over 5000 words like it degrades but sometimes might miss words and stuff so I'm like I need to go through this fucking line by line why don't I just have a guy recorded himself if we're doing that and you have to pay for this stuff

• 45:55Speaker 02

  yes oh yeah

• 45:57Speaker 01

  that's the funny thing it's like products that aren't even like dialed in they're trying to sell to people

• 46:02Speaker 02

  yes and and it's I it's I They call it the minimum viable product, like whatever your go to market strategy is like the minimum viable product that you can use to sell somebody and that's what AI is they that at least in the versions that I have seen like I'm not saying it's not improving but at what cost, at what cost to people, to art, to society, to think about it, like, think about it from top to bottom, what is it doing, how is it helping? What can we do to make it better, not worse? How can we make it improve people's lives? Like you see AI being inserted into medical decision making with doctors and healthcare decisions. Do you remember um

• 46:42Speaker 02

  United Healthcare, they had that AI bot that was making decisions about procedures, not humans, a bot. And it was over ninety percent denial rate and I'm sorry, if you have basic healthcare issues, just going to the doctor if you're dealing with the VA and you have a bot telling you, an AI bot telling you what you can and can't have done, even if it's necessary medication. Like I was denied life-saving medication because of an AI bot. I had to like, I had to go back and this is stuff that I like, I have chronic asthma, so like I have to to stay alive, I need an inhaler to um, I have allergies, so I have an EpiPen. These are medications that keep my body alive and my insurance denied it because of an AI. So

• 47:23Speaker 02

  like, if you think about that, is is AI helping or hurting or harming? Like, what are we doing? And why?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Crazy. Jesus Christ.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Sorry, I like to make people not be able to sleep at night and I think I've accomplished my goal now, so like, listen, I can see really great cases for AI usage, but again, you have to weigh the costs, benefits, and you also have to think about how are we going to protect people from this? How are we going to insulate people? How are we going to regulate this? What does that look like? We need it because just like with medication, you need regulation to make sure that it's not going to kill more people than it. Saves.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Right? Like when you have medication, there's always a percentage of the population that can't take that medication for whatever reason. They have an allergy, they have a bad reaction, but you have trials for a reason before you approve a medication. So what are we doing with AI that we're not testing it out in smaller populations, like in terms of smaller training models, smaller data usage? How is that helpful? Is it helping the process? Are we are we taking a look at it long term? What it's doing? I don't know. These are just things that I think about when I think about AI. So maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Time will prove me right or wrong, I guess.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  No, I think that's totally prudent uh to think of it that way because it seems like the trials are just happening.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  It's just like throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what sticks. And they're like, oh, my God, it's working. It's so great. I'm like, OK, but it's also wrong. Like, did you verify the facts? Like, there's people submitting briefs with fake law laws and lawsuits and legal cases for court dockets? Are you kidding me? You use AI to find court cases? What?

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Like, what are you doing?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Lazy.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yes, it's la- it is lazy and it's wrong. So, yeah.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot to think about. Guys, do me a favor. Check out Shannon Miller on LockDownYourLife.com. This is awesome. Don't and don't download DeepSeek or do it. Who gives a shit? No, don't. It matters. It matters. Don't.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  The only thing I'll say about DeepSeek is that you can download it and put it on inside a virtual machine on your computer. So you can run it. So it's not running on their servers. It's running on your computer locally. So that's the one plus that I see to it is that if you're going to test it, you can test it in an isolated environment, whereas with chat GPT, it's a little bit harder to do that. So but because this is open source, you can do that. Anyway, that's all I'll say about that.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, Shannon, this was awesome. Again, LockDownYourLife.com. Um, Jason Lyons, his links are in the description. LockDownYourLife.com will also be in the description. If you want to find any of the other guys, all the links will be in the description. Take a look at the description or the show notes. That's where it is always. And the best place to support the show is patreon.com slash the team house. And guess what? That's in the description, too.

• 50:16Speaker 04

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAa. If your asthma keeps interrupting.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  It may be time to try something else. Extensure is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensure is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection. Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur.

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Thank you, guys. This was great. Shannon, this was awesome. Shannon, thank you. Good seeing you again.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Good to see you.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extensure, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extensure is an ultra-long-acting prescription-maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensure is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or flulike symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at Extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 52:52Speaker 05

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extensure. Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, [coughs] it may be time to try something else. Extensure is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extensure is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection.

• 54:15Speaker 04

  Common cold, sinus infection, inflammation in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extensure. Learn more at Extensure.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 54:32Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at OnDeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 55:10Speaker 04

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection,

• 55:55Speaker 04

  inflammation in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at Extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 56:10Speaker 07

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans, up to $400,000, help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  Sponsored by GSK, the makers of Extenture, Depamocumab ULAA. If your asthma keeps interrupting, it may be time to try something else. Extenture is an ultra-long-acting prescription maintenance treatment for severe asthma, eosinophilic type, ages 12 and older. It isn't for sudden breathing problems. Extenture is the first and only add-on treatment that can help deliver protection from asthma attacks with two doses a year. Just one dose every six months. That's a lot of time for everything in between. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Don't change or stop medicines, including steroids, unless told by your doctor. Report if you have a parasitic infection, common cold, sinus infection,

• 57:25Speaker 04

  inflammation in the nose, flu or fluke-like symptoms, joint pain or sore throat may occur. Carry on with fewer attacks and ask your doctor about Extenture. Learn more at Extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678.

• 57:40Speaker 08

  Games on a break? Don't doom scroll. Try rips on Underdog. Buy a digital pack, rip it open, and reveal a real, physical card. Football, basketball, even Pokemon. Packs start at just $5. Ship it straight to your door or sell it back instantly at full market value. Max value up to $125,000. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Deposit $5, get 5 free packs. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 58:11Speaker 07

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.