Inside Military Intel in WW2 | Tim Scherrer | Ep. 395

In this conversation, Tim Shearer shares his extensive background in military intelligence, detailing his journey from Quincy, Illinois, to becoming a counterintelligence officer in the Army Reserve. He discusses his experiences during Desert Storm, his time at TransCom during the Gulf War, and the impact of 9/11 on his military career. Shearer also reflects on his transition to teaching and writing, culminating in his latest book, 'Spy Catchers, Interrogators, and Analysts,' which explores lesser-known aspects of military intelligence during World War II. 00:00 Introduction to Tim Shearer and His Background 02:47 Military Journey: From Quincy to the Army 05:48 Becoming an Officer: ROTC Experience 08:59 First Experiences in the Army Reserve 11:53 Counterintelligence Operations in Iceland 14:47 Desert Storm: Mobilization and Experiences 17:44 Working at TransCom During the Gulf War 20:50 Post-Gulf War Experiences and Company Command 23:49 Transitioning to Teaching and Writing 26:39 The Impact of 9/11 on Military Service 29:54 Intelligence Operations and the War on Terror 32:54 Writing Career: From History to Military Intelligence 35:39 Spy Catchers, Interrogators, and Analysts: The New Book 38:52 Reflections on Military Service and Legacy Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:01Jack Murphy?

  Hey everyone. My name's Jack Murphy. This is the Team House. I'm here tonight with our guest, Tim Shear. He served as an Army Counterintelligence Section Chief amongst other positions that he held. Service in Desert Storm and elsewhere. He's also the author of Spy Catchers, Interrogators and Analysts: Tactical U.S. Army Military Intelligence in World War II. I was just looking through this the other day while I was here in the office. It's super cool. If I mean, if you're interested in World War II era military intelligence, you're definitely going to want to have this book on your shelf. Tim, thank you for joining us tonight.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm very humbled to be here. And yeah, I was, I had a variety of jobs when I was in, again, I was an Army Reserve Counterintelligence guy, and I was mobbed for Desert Storm stateside and also 9/11. So I don't want people to think I'm trying to oversell myself.

• 2:59Jack Murphy?

  Well, tell us a little bit about that, you know, sort of the process that you took towards joining the Army.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm, I grew up in Quincy, Illinois. So if you're not familiar with where Quincy is, if Illinois was a pregnant woman, Quincy would be the belly button. So we're just right across the Missouri, or the Mississippi River from Missouri. So I basically grew up in the same home. Came into that home as a baby until I graduated. So I was always interested in the military and my mom would take us to the library. And they had these C.B. Colby books, like Equipment of the Cold War, Weapons of World War II, things like that, you know, and I remember opening that book and seeing that Davy Crockett on the back of that Jeep, thinking that was the coolest thing ever. So.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  And I I was always definitely interested in World War II. And there was one point when I was super young, I was maybe five or six, like the movie The Battle of the Bulge was on. And and the parents were trying to get me to go to bed and I didn't want to go to bed because I wanted to know how the war was going to turn out. I mean, the Germans had Patton tanks. I mean, how could they not lose? But um, so my dad said, go to bed, you'll be fighting World War II for the rest of your life. And that's kind of, kind of how it's been, I think. So my dad served in the military. My, I had some uncles that served, one was in Patton's army. I have one.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  It's a little bit of a mystery. He was an aviator who received a Silver Star during the Japanese attack at Clark Field. Uh, on the eighth of December forty one, and he survived the Pan Death March and died afterwards. Um, and also, I mean, my brother served in the Air Force. My niece just got back from a deployment as the chief of staff for the Air Force Base in the UAE. She just got back like a week ago.

• 5:01Jack Murphy?

  So, you know, you you had some family background and did, uh, you know, as far as becoming an officer, did you go through ROTC or how did that work for you?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was really thinking I was going to go more like a radio broadcasting route. I think that was where my interest was in high school and then I realized it was kind of a suck job. So I think, well, if I'm going to go to college, I might as well go for four years and I might as well study history and then ROTC presented itself. So, yeah, I started participating in ROTC as a freshman and then I ended up getting a three and a half year scholarship. Uh, which, uh, because I got it at the end of that semester, that gave me the money to buy my seventy-three Volkswagen Beetle, which was my college car. So, um, drove that all the way through school. Uh, you know, I'm a first gen college student, so my dad basically said, this is a waste of money. Why are you doing this?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Um, when when I moved into the dorms, my parents literally just said, hey, just go put your stuff up there and drive back the next day and then we'll drop you off. Like, there was no big moving day. Like, we didn't know how to do any of this. So, um, and I was, again, I was a band kid, um, to the nth degree. I mean, uh, Quincy Public Schools had bought a child-sized tuba and I was the guinea pig for the child-sized tuba. And so I started playing it in fourth grade and I remember having to march in like, uh, you know, three-mile parades with like a full-sized fiberglass sousaphone that's almost like dragging on the ground and stuff like that. Although I was a pretty good, pretty good su- uh, tuba player in that I think I only sat second chair one time in my life.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Uh, ended up being all-state actually, um, my senior year and then I really walked away from it. I, I just decided, you know, there's not gonna be any big resurgence in polka music. And I think so far I've called that one right. I could have bought a tuba with my scholarship money, but I thought the car would do me a little more good. So, um, and again, I was a skinny kid. I was a hundred and sixty pounds and I really had worked hard during my freshman year, my sophomore year to, to build up and get strong. I've got these ridiculously skinny arms. So like push-ups are just, like the mechanics for push-ups for me are just not

• 7:19Speaker 03

  pretty. And so the second semester of my sophomore year in college, I got mono and I went from like one sixty to one thirty. And I lost everything and I had to completely start over. So, um, you know, went through my junior year, uh, became, uh, went, went through RTC Advanced Camp, uh, Fort Riley. I would have been somewhere of eighty-six. And then I was a pretty mediocre cadet. Again, I just wasn't that physical. I mean, I was just a skinny kid that was, you know, just had mono like a year before. And, uh, but I, I did the best I could and, uh, you know, I never, I never struggled with anything,

• 8:01Speaker 03

  but it was just always a bit of a, bit of a challenge for me. So they, uh, they do like an internship for cadets and I got, uh, it's called Cadet Troop Leader Training. So I got a CTLT assignment and it was like the worst CTLT assignment in the world. I got assigned to the jail commander at Fort Gordon, Georgia.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  So I'm like, I show up and like day one, hey, we're feeding them. Hey, we're they're getting showers. Hey, they're doing this. And then like day two, hey, we're feeding them. Hey, we're doing. So actually, I we we went and kind of farmed out and rode along with the uh the MPs. Busting up fights at the enlisted club. I stood gate one time, caught a drunk driver. You know, all these sort of fun things that I got to do. So. Uh, when it came came time to commission, again, you s- submit your dream sheet. And mine didn't come back the way I'd hoped. I mean, I I I ranked as a distinguished military graduate, but then I got put in the reserve component and. I got the branch I wanted, but and no one could seem to quite understand how that happened.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  And everyone's like, you're a DMG and you got in the reserves. I'm like, yeah, I have no idea how that happened. So I didn't really have a plan B. So I had to had to move pretty quick and figure things out. So um I had to and and when you're in the army reserve as an officer, there's no career manager for you. Like you are your own career manager. There's no one you call and say, hey, what jobs are open? You have to figure it out yourself. So I figured out there were two MI detachments in St. Louis. One was the four eighty fifth MI detachment. Which was a infantry brigade support unit. And the other one was the two eighty third MI debt, which was a UCOM. Theater level CI uh counterintelligence unit. And so to me, the uh the four eighty fifth seemed like the place to go.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  So uh I went ahead and signed on there. I was really kind of an extra officer until I went to my basic course, which was not until October. But so I show up for my first drill, have no idea, never been to a drill in my life. And I'm just kind of sitting there and it's a warm June day. And all these guys are taking off their blouses because it's warm and they all got guns. I'm like, do I get a gun? Like, I don't, is this normal? They were all St. Louis city cops.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  So they were they were packing guns with them all the time because you never know they might walk out of the reserve center and see somebody that they knew but um so we ended up doing our very first annual training that summer uh and we were going to Gage Town Canadian Forces Base. Now the forty-fifth mission was US Army Forces Republic of Iceland. So there's the Icelandic Defense Force and then there are the different service components, NAVICE which was active duty, AFICE which was active duty, and then the reserve component had a had the army headquarters was a reserve unit out of um a oh gosh, an air force base

• 10:59Speaker 03

  out of uh out of uh Massachusetts and the one eighty-seventh SIB Army Reserve, this was before the off-site agreement and the Army Reserve lost all the combat units, they were out of Massachusetts. And so uh so because I didn't have a job, didn't have really anything to do, I got put on advanced party, so we went up there and we had all kinds of problems. Sado screwed up our tickets, uh like our connecting flights were booked for the second day, ended up sleeping in the Bangor main airport with my RTC colleague. And then it came time for us to pick up our vehicles. So we had this blue Bonneville station wagon with like wood grain on the side, it's what they rented at the airport to kind of run around until we got all of our equipment. So our equipment had been rail loaded out

• 11:44Speaker 03

  of St. Louis and shipped up to like New Hampshire and then put on flat beds to haul up to Gage Town Canadian Forces Base, which is New Brunswick. And so we go up to pick up our vehicles and we quickly discover that we only have one of our vehicles, we only have our two and a half ton truck. Unfortunately, that's got all of our tents and everything else in it. I mean, we only had like five vehicles to begin with. So uh our our other vehicles were involved with the fatal um traffic accident in Hampshire and the state police impounded them. So like, we didn't know when we're gonna get our stuff and so we decided to keep the Bonneville wagon for a while.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  And so we, you know, fortunately, we had our tents, we got our tents and everything set up and the brigade commanding general showed up and there's, you know, this kind of like Strack E5. He sees I've got a different patch. He goes, hey, where are you from? I said, I'm on 45th and my, I was saying, where are you, my guys? He goes, okay, so what's going on? How's it going? I'm like, well, not well. We don't have any of our vehicles because of this thing happened. And he said, oh, okay. Well, thanks for letting me know. And so he told the general, and next thing you know, like the brigade S4 came looking for us. He's like, hey, you guys don't, you got, your vehicles are gone? Like, okay, we can loan you two M151 Jeeps. We're like, hey, that's awesome. Thank you. And so we got the two

• 13:07Speaker 03

  M151 Jeeps and then so in the motor pool, you know, it was like Humvee, Humvee, Cuck V, Cuck V Bonneville with wood grain. Uh, Humvee, Humvee, Humvee. Uh, and they, they wanted the Jeeps back after like two days. So we started hiding the Jeeps. Um, so we found a place where we could park them where no one could see them. And so then the, uh, you know, the S4 would come back, hey, I need my Jeeps back. And we're like, oh, you know, they were just here five minutes ago. Here, why don't you come back in about two hours and we think they'll be here. So, um, we finally got our vehicles like well into the second week, but I remember we did a, a jump talk for the brigade. And

• 13:51Speaker 03

  so it was an RTEP exercise. So the aviation unit, Cairo Warriors is flying overhead. I can see the Cav Squadron screening us on the flanks in the M113s. And, and I'm in the Bonneville in the middle of this convoy. So that was a, that was an interesting experience. So, um, so from there.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  I went to uh M I O B C class eighty eight dash two. It's about a half-active, half-reserve start in October. And it was a really good experience. I did pretty well there. And uh there was a guy in there, which I've never quite figured out who he was to this point. I think his name was, his last name was McKenzie, and I want to say Bob McKenzie, but that may be like a uh, that may be like a Great White North mix-up in my brain. But Bob had a really curious intel background, and he had some stories about how he had been in, in Grenada, he'd been in the evasion of Lebanon in an Israeli uniform. Um, and

• 14:59Speaker 03

  he had just come from Infantry Officer Basic Course, and then he was going through M I Officer Basic Course. I'm like, who does that? So we, and he was going to brag, so we're kind of curious. So if anyone knows Bob, let me know kind of who he was. But um, so he actually ended up getting hurt in Ranger School, which he went to right after then. I think he got out-processed. But, so then I had another opportunity to go for active duty, that what was called the Commandant's Program. And um, so I, I ranked sixth out of my forty-five members in my class, but my, my buddy, good friend of mine, he ranked fourth out of forty-five. So I uh, he ended up getting it, and he, he was clearly the better man. But uh, so then I'm like, okay,

• 15:44Speaker 03

  I gotta go back and find a job. And that's what I did.

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• 19:25Jack Murphy?

  Is that how it works in the reserves? They're not just assigning you somewhere?

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Uh, well, I mean, I was already, I was in the 485th. That was my unit, but I had to go find it like a civilian job.

• 19:36Jack Murphy?

  Oh, oh, I'm outside. Gotcha.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Right. And it's hard when you're in the reserves, especially when you're young, because you might get called up or whatever. And so I ended up working for a trucking company for a while. It's actually my mom's competing company.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  So I did that for like about a month and a half and it was kind of a meh job. And so they, I had put in orders for the intelligence and terrorism counteraction course. At Fort Wachukka two weeks of school and I went to my boss on Friday. And I'm like, hey, I've got these orders. I can get them canceled if need be. I kind of like to go came into work Monday and he fired me.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  So it all actually kind of worked out and that the next day I actually got a much better job offer for where I worked for 12 years. So it, it turned out to be pretty well. So my job was I worked at Northeast Missouri State. And I maintained 1,492 apartments and dorm rooms. I had 26 staff. And just basically kept all those kids warm, dry and safe.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Did that for 12 years and that was never a dull moment for sure.

• 20:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, so what was going on with your military service throughout that timeframe?

• 21:00Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, I was formally assigned to the CI section as the CI section chief. And the 485th was a pretty cool unit in that it was a very capable unit, even though like we had steel pots. We had gamma goats. We had just, you know, we had an M16, not even an A1 in 88, I think it was. But the unit was really capable in that, like my CI section chief was me. I had a warrant officer who was a school teacher librarian. But he spent all summer going to army schools and teaching in army schools.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  So he, you know, he was an interrogator. He was in, he was a CIA agent. He had taught at the schoolhouse, all that kind of stuff. And then I had a deputy sheriff from Madison County, Illinois. So he's a full-time cop. And then I had a guy who was a St. Louis city cop, former prior service sergeant York Crewman. If that says anything. And then I had a guy who was a private investigator. So I had a pretty stacked little team of guys who did stuff on their outside work from the unit. The interrogator section had a bunch of St. Louis city cops, a postal inspector. Our photo interpreter warrant worked at defense mapping. The order of battle warrant worked at defense mapping.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I mean, there's a lot of very good crossover inside of that unit, despite the army not giving us a whole lot of anything.

• 22:38Jack Murphy?

  And about what years was this that you were there?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  I commissioned eighty-seven and it came back in eighty-eight. And then I was there until Desert Storm spun up. So we did go to Northern Viking eighty-nine. We took ours, took the CI section up there and they took the the RICE headquarters, brigade headquarters and one battalion. And then we were kind of an attachment. So we actually got to run around on our ground. And we liaised with NIS and was able to give them a few leads on a few different things. But that was super cool. If you've ever read Red Storm Rising, that's, that's the scenario right there. That's, that's what was going to go down in Iceland. And we, like, I remember we were next to the flight line and like an F-15 would go screaming off the runway.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  And you could follow it because the sky was so clear, you know, and it's going up to intercept a bear bomber in the sky. There were anti-submarine aircraft flying all the time, things like that. So it was, it was pretty fascinating. It was also during summer solstice, so it really didn't get dark the whole time we were there. So when we came back, we're like eating dinner in Connecticut and we're like, it's dark. You see that? It's dark outside. Yeah, it's dark. So that was a, that was an interesting experience.

• 24:02Jack Murphy?

  What kinds of things did you do there as a CI guy? Um, I, we were just interviewing another person earlier, uh, who's telling us he was a CI guy also. He's telling us about how he had to put the kibosh on the young soldiers going to the strip club, uh, in a foreign country.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a real challenge when we went to Iceland because the Icelanders are xenophobic, very xenophobic. They don't like outsiders very well. They didn't like us. In fact, when we went out of town, me and my guys, we found these like Icelandic Canadian pins that we would wear. So people would be nice to us. But the biggest problem we had, uh, off post, which our, our soldiers didn't go off post a whole lot for that exercise, but uh, these were intercity Boston kids and that's like the Flava Flav era. So I remember one guy walking around with the big clock and all this kind of stuff and, um, So that was, that was a bit of a challenge. And also, we were just doing standard tactical CI,

• 25:02Speaker 03

  making sure that they had good operational security practices, make sure they weren't throwing op orders and dumpsters and, you know, listening to radio nets and visiting sites for camouflage and all those sorts of things. We, we actually, the year before, we did, uh, we were with a separate infantry brigade out of Oklahoma. And we decided, uh, we, we were talking to the battalion commander. He's like, oh yeah, you guys can collect on my boys. They're good. I'm like, okay, that sounds like fun. So we snuck some guys in and they used a lighter and burned, burned off the insulation on their WD-1 wires and we tapped them. Um, and ran, ran a line off of that, uh, flew around and got

• 25:45Speaker 03

  aerial imagery of it. We took, uh, we had a interrogator female, so she put on a pair of shorts and a, uh, tank top and went, went for a ride on the roach coach and started asking questions to see what kind of information she could get. So it was all over with. We gave this guy like a, yeah, I, I actually sat and listened to the radio nets and the traffic analysis on it and stuff like that. So we presented, you know, okay, here's your battalion. This is what we know about them. So that, that, that was good. That was, that was actually good training.

• 26:13Jack Murphy?

  Did they shit bricks when you give a brief on that?

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were, they were a little humbled by everything we were able to get. And we really were not that capable either. I mean, we were, we're pretty old school. I think we stole a, uh, we, we got the frequency off one of their vehicles. And that's how then we were able to then start building their radio net, uh, through traffic analysis, like S3, he's the angry guy, you know, things like that. When he's on the radio. So yeah, that was fun. So in the summer of 1990, we didn't have an annual training, like people were just going to schools. So I actually got sent to kind of a crap job. I got to, I got sent to Fort Leonard Wood to the special security office. Although it turned out to be interesting because that was July of 1990 and I was producing

• 26:59Speaker 03

  the black books for the engineer school. And that was the entire buildup of Saddam on the Kuwait border. So I'm reading all of this intel before, of course, you know, it ended and I went home. But, uh, little did I know, a few months later, I would get roped into it.

• 27:18Jack Murphy?

  Mm hmm. Well, tell us about that spinning up for the Gulf War. How did that come about?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Well, it's pretty clear the 485th wasn't gonna wasn't gonna get mobilized unless like the Russians were crossing the Mississippi River. So, uh, the 283rd did get called up and they went to, uh, they went to Germany and by the time they got spun up and trained, like the whole thing was over, they came back like a couple of months later. So, they actually pulled two officers out of the unit, myself and another guy who worked at McDonald Douglas, which is now Boeing in St. Louis. And they sent us to US Transcom, J, the, the J2 of Transcom, which is at Scott Air Force Base, Joint Force Headquarters, Four Star Headquarters. And, uh, at that point, Transcom was really only two years old as, uh, Cold Water Nichols had just happened.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  And, uh, the J2 was really just the, uh, Military Airlines Command IN shop. And then they had like a little space with about a dozen people in it, a Navy guy, there was like an Army imagery guy and a few others. And I was, I was either the second or third Army guy assigned to the J2 there at Transcom. And so then I got thrown over to be the briefer on the Crisis Action Team. And so I was briefing the Four Star General like within two days of me getting there. And I was like, I was not a good briefer. I had to figure it out quick. And it actually worked out okay, but, um, so I did that for like 45 days and then the other lieutenant swapped with me.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  He came over to Crisis Action Team and we were working four days on, two days off. Um, and then we would flip to nights and then we'd do four days on and then two days off and then flip back to days. So every six days, we were flipping days and nights. They just have enough people to do days and nights. So I was working in the Crisis Action Team among all the, uh, all the operations folks, the logistics team, the air team, Navy team, all those guys that are making all of this high level logistics working. And so we would give them our, our, our J2 update. Um, so I, so I got swapped out and I actually went over to write a trucking study on the Saudi Arabian Peninsula. So that was my job for like 45 days. You gotta write this.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Trucking study on Saudi Arabia. I'm like, okay. So I'm researching, I'm trying to find everything. I asked for a couple of days of of like a permissive TDY. I went back to my college library, spent two days and all I found was a uh a reference in Smithsonian magazine that said, no self-respecting Beddow and truck driver would drive anything less than a Mercedes. I'm like, I went to my boss, I'm like, I am floundering on this. So another guy came in and he's like, uh, why don't we call, why don't we call like a auto company? They called the Ford Motor Company and like, you know, four days later, we had a printout like this thick of every vehicle that has ever been sold to Saudi Arabia.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  So um, so I've got a citation for that, but I obviously didn't do much on it.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  So uh, the other guy decided he wanted to go back to Boeing or McDonnell Douglas. So I was left there and then I got joined by an army guy who transferred in by the name of Brock Ears. Now Brock uh, actually had grown up in that area. He's a captain, I was lieutenant. And I was a brand new first lieutenant at that point and he had just come out of the White House Situation Room. In fact, he was the Southcom briefer for just cause.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  So, and he had some really good stories about, you know, how all that went down. But uh, so and how he briefed in the Oval Office and now he went and briefed Quayle separately and uh, things like that. So he was a really great mentor for me and we were working together this, these kind of day and night shifts. So there were a few moments when we didn't actually know what to make of anything. So Brock's like, hey, let me call my buddies, you know, and he'd get on the Stu three and call and it'd pop up White House. Hey, Bob, tell me what's going on, that kind of thing. So it was, it was really interesting to be there. Um, but um, so the J two desk was actually right next to the snack bar. Um, and the J three,

• 31:36Speaker 03

  uh, General Cross, Walt Cross, was kind of a junk food junkie. And so he would always come over and looking for something to eat. And he would just strike up conversations and we had complete access to all the GOs there. There was, there were no, there were no people we had to go through. We need to talk to anybody, we could just go talk to them. And I remember one day I was reading uh, Bodyguard of Lies and he's like, Lieutenant, I'm so proud of you for that. So um,

• 32:04Speaker 03

  It was uh, it was, it was, it was pretty, pretty, pretty busy. I actually did make an attempt to try and deploy. Went over to the uh, helicopter unit, Army Reserve Helicopter Unit, which is part of our command. I said, hey, I mean, am I a guy? I'm trained up. I'm already working the problem. I'd like to go with you guys. And they're like, uh, no. I think I probably worked it wrong. But they were actually the unit, they were a super cool unit. They were um,

• 32:30Speaker 03

  a lot of the guys worked at Aviation Systems Command, which at that point was in St. Louis, Missouri. And all the warrants were Vietnam guys. And they actually ended up being like the distinguished visitor, ELO unit uh, for CENTCOM. So they flew Schwarzkopf to the peace talks with the Iraqis, things like that. So that was a kind of a missed opportunity for me. But um, so yeah, there was, there was a lot going on. And um, when Israel started receiving SCUDs from Iraq, uh, we got like a, a warning, an execution order like, like that. Like, we gotta do this right now. We had to get patriots down to Israel.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  So my colleagues worked at that evening. Um, I didn't really have much of a play in it, other than, you know, making sure that the APODs and SPODs were okay in Germany. And then the next night, they were set up in Israel and we watched them like knock, knock missiles out of the sky and save lives. That was super cool.

• 33:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, for a documentary project, I was watching some of the news, news footage from back then of the SCUDs coming into Israel and hitting residential areas. And I mean, it, it looked so terrifying.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had a, I had kind of a funny experience with those. So we, we, we didn't have any connectivity where it, the, the Crisis Action Team was actually in the old uh, commissary, the post commissary. They built a new one. It was a big open building, so they just chopped it up into a bunch of offices. And so the CAT team was in there. And so to read intel traffic, uh, or pick up intel traffic, they would print it. We put it in a suitcase, carried over to us. It's about two block walk. And then we'd read it over there. And so I was in the uh, the watch center. And I heard the beep beep beep beep beep. And and and I listened and I was like, we got a critic, we got a critic. Like, okay, we got a critic.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Okay, let's see what happens. And beep beep beep beep beep. Okay, we got a scud. Uh, it's coming out of Iraq. It's going to Turkey. It's going into Turkey. I'm like, Turkey? Turkey's a NATO country. So if they shoot a missile at Turkey, that means that's an attack on a NATO country, which means NATO is probably going to join the Gulf War. I was like, oh shit, this is, this is a pretty big deal. And then beep beep beep beep beep. Another one comes in, uh, we got the azimuth wrong, it's going to Israel.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Like, jeez Louise. So, you know, the war kind of drew down, um. And um, so there's a little bit of an insurgency that popped up there and I ended up, um, I was briefing the, the general and the general really kind of took a shining to me, uh, uh, Hansford T. Johnson, Air Force four star guy. And like all the GOs kind of took a shining to me because I was, you know, a younger version of them and um. So, there was one moment in a briefing where the four star, at that point they were called SINKs. Like I'm briefing something about Iraqi insurgency and he's like, well, why don't they just fade into the woodwork and like Vietnam? I'm like, well, sir, there, and I, I just shot right back and I'm, sir, there is no woodwork in Iraq.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  And there was this like pregnant moment. I'm like, I am so screwed. Like I'm about to get fired. And then he started laughing. And so, so from then on, I became Lieutenant Woodwork. So, uh, as things spun down, we worked on like Northern Watch. Um, I remember I had to hand draw a map for the four star to brief him. I literally hand drew a map and laid it on the table for him and kind of explained it to him. And he's like, uh, LT, what's this? I go, sir, that's an infantry company. You know, things like that, um, that was a little crazy. One of the weirder things we did.

• 36:34Speaker 03

  Was as Desert Storm was Desert Desert Sorte was starting to pick up, which is the return. We got like a warning order that there'd been some sort of humanitarian disaster in Iran. And and they were there. They they wanted us to start looking at the possibilities of taking humanitarian supplies into Iran. Like, oh, geez, that's a weird one. So I got with the Middle East analyst and we started looking at road networks and train network and roads and all that kind of stuff. We got like a day into it and then the Iran Iran put out a message that they didn't want any AIDS infected blankets from the US.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  So that pretty much shut that whole thing down immediately. So I kind of like, I guess, smallpox blankets. I don't know.

• 37:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  So really from there, I went back. So I got demobed, went back to the forty fifth for a couple of months. And then when they they created the Joint Transportation Reserve Unit, which was the first reserve unit stood up on a joint manning document. There were some different units that maybe drilled together, but we were actually under a unified command, joint joint document, everything else. But when they stood up the army element in October of ninety one, they made us a drilling IMA detachment, which basically just means you're not going to get paid. I figured that out. So I actually went eight or nine months without getting any of my drill pay. Um, which was not cool.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  And I ended up having to work through a my congressman like every single month so I could actually get my drill pay. It was so screwed up. Um, so then when we went into Somalia. Um, Restore Hope, I believe, is is that name?

• 38:25Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Exercise?

• 38:26Jack Murphy?

  I think so.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Yes. So I was down there for a weekend and then they're like, OK, we're we're going to call you up. We're going to put you on ninety day orders. And, uh, you know, we were you guys are going to run the the Situation Shop or the the J two for this particular exercise. I'm like, OK, that's that's good. Uh, super cool in that there is the intel system where I, you know, you could chat with people. I remember I was chatting with an amphib. And hey, I need some pictures of the doc. Can you get me pictures of the doc? And you know, some guy, and he's like, ah, sure, sure. I'll tea. I'll get it right for you. You know, two hours later, these JPGs show up. I'm like, this is so cool. Like this thing, this internet thing's pretty interesting.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Um, but yeah, when I, when I actually reported, the day I report, I remember I was checking into the Scott End. And I saw the SEALs coming over the beach on CNN in the lobby. Of the, I'm like, okay, well, this is going to be different. And then that, that pay issue continued. Um, I was going towards my second month of active duty and still had not been paid. Um, which was ridiculous. Um, so I would work a night shift and Army Reserve Personnel Center is 9700 page. In, um, uh, St. Louis. So I would come off, come off a full night shift. And I drove over there. I'm like, I'm, I'm not going to leave until this is resolved.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  I end up having to go back three times to get it resolved. And

• 39:57Jack Murphy?

  That sounds typical.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And like, well, in the first month wasn't so bad because I was still getting my civilian salary. But, um, and, and when I was in there, I just completely understood. How the army can get screwed up. There'd be like a pallet of 201 files sitting in the hallway. And like, one of them would fall off the top. And get on the floor and people would start walking on it. Next thing you know, the whole file's all over the place. All over the place. And somebody kind of scoops it back up, but it's probably missing a few pages. And stuff like that. So, um, I demobbed around March, I think. And that was well before Black Hawk Down happened.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Uh, I did brief the weekend of Black Hawk Down, uh, but we had no idea what was going on over there. We just, you know, typical operations in Somalia at this point. Uh, we, we heard about it later, later on.

• 40:53Jack Murphy?

  Um, and when was it that um you started coming up on company commander time?

• 41:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, had a few more, a few more things. The company command came up on in like nineteen ninety by or nineteen ninety six. You know, I'd been at the J two too long. Uh, I was feeling like I needed to get green. I was, I'd been a lieutenant. I was now a captain. Uh, we did have one other kind of interesting thing happen. And that was one weekend I walked in and on a Friday, because you go on the Friday if you're going to brief. And I walked into the conference room and there's a VTC going on and it's the uh, they're briefing the airdrop plan for the Brigade of eighty second to go into Haiti.

• 41:42Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  And so the air mo-, uh, at that point, I think it might have been Air Mobility Command versus MAC. And so we, we got that whole plan and I got a phone call before I left. They said, hey, you know, we may send you down to Homestead to be an L and O down there. I'm like, okay, you know, I'll just, I'll, I'll pack some extra clothes and, you know, I'll show up and just tell me, tell me where to go. And then on Saturday, they're like, no, we think we got all this covered, so we don't need you to just go home. So I, I worked this plan for like two days. I'm like, go home and watch it on CNN. My roommate was like, hey, let's watch something else. I'm like, no, we're gonna watch CNN tonight. Why? Because we're gonna watch CNN tonight. So, but yeah, I ended up going on to becoming a company commander.

• 42:27Speaker 03

  And again, there's, by that point, the MI debts had completely folded in St. Louis. They were gone. There were no MI slots there. Um, so the only way I was going to get a company command was get like a zero one alpha branch in material. So, um, there was the second of the three, three, fourth Infantry Regiment, which is a Army Reserve Basic Training Company. And, um, and they, and they were located in my hometown. They had, uh, they had a, a debt up in my hometown uh, of Quincy and the main unit was in Granite City, which is right across from St. Louis. So I talked to the battalion commander. He goes, you know, I need someone to be an S one and we gotta merge three

• 43:07Speaker 03

  plans into one. And then when you finish that, I'll, I'll give you a company command. I'm like, okay, that's good. So did that. Um, we didn't do like a two week annual training. We busted it all up into two weekends. So generally we were working two weekends a month, uh, which was getting kind of old by the end of it. But, uh, so yeah, I took this basic training company command.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  D Company, three, three, fourth infantry regiment. So, um, and I had a little bit of street cred, like I'm the MI geek coming out of nowhere. Like, like, who is this guy? But I was also from Quincy, so I got a little bit of street cred there.

• 43:50Speaker 03

  And so I did that for three years. We did multiple, you know, annual training cycles. Um, I, uh, we did two at Knox and we did one at Benning. The, the Benning one was kind of just kind of weird because the basic combat training brigade was standing up at that point and it had only been the ITB at that point. So they stood up this other brigade to do basic training and some of the drill sergeants came from ITB and a bunch of them were brand new and they kind of dumped us on, us on top of them to, um, to help them out because I, I mean, we had drill sergeants that had been on the trail for 20 years doing that. Um, so, but they, they were just doing really just dumb stuff. I'm just looking

• 44:35Speaker 03

  at this like, what are you people doing? So one of the things, when, when we were at Fort Knox, we were always, we were always to be in the exact same uniform as the privates. Like the privates are wearing helmets, we're wearing helmets, we're in LBE, they're wearing LBE. And these, these drill sergeants didn't want to do that. And so they were trying to figure out ways to carry water and they're doing like Gatorade bottles and Camelbacks and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, dude, the army has a thing that has canteens on it that carries water if you just want to wear it. So, um, that was also, gosh.

• 45:17Speaker 03

  So the unit that relieved me was out of Chicago and we, we tried to do a good handover to them. And I remember the company commander came in, I'm like, where are your guys? They're supposed to right seat ride, left seat ride. And she's like, well, my NCOs had a meeting today and they decided they didn't want to come in this early.

• 45:35Speaker 03

  I was like, excuse me, your NCOs had a meeting and decided they didn't want to come in this morning? Okay, so that was, that was curious.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  But, um, so then I finished out of, I finished my company command and then there was an opportunity to go back to transcom and it was a major slot, which is good because I needed that. Again, you gotta manage your own career. So I actually went to the Advanced Airlift Tactics Training Center, which is a super cool course that the Air Force runs out of Rosecrans Air Base in St. Joe, Missouri. So it's really to teach airlifters how to do defensive tactics. Uh, besides just to curl up in the ball and die. Uh, so protect themselves from AAA missiles, aircraft,

• 46:25Speaker 03

  things like that. So it was a two week school. We went to Rosecrans for like four or five days and then we flew to Wauchukka. And, uh, which, you know, I'm familiar with Wauchukka. And then we did the flying phase and like they would literally teach them to fly over a mountain, drop a wing and fly down the other side, like in a C-130.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Also, we had a C-17 and we had a G-triple-three there as well. And, uh, one of the guys, one of the pilots overbanked a C-130 doing this training, so they had to ground that. Um, I did win the biggest puker award. Although in, in my own defense, like they had to give it to the army guy. Um, they just had to, but in my own defense, I was the third person to puke on that aircraft. The, uh, Hope Air Crew had been out drinking all night. And they were definitely not eight hours throttle to bottle, so they were hungover. So we're taking off and I look over and the nav is on oxygen. I'm like, this is not a good sign. And we take off and that, that was the where they were doing the, the terrain,

• 47:31Speaker 03

  train flying and falling down the other side of a mountain and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, in, in big trash haulers and, um,

• 47:41Speaker 03

  So the, so he start puking, the flight engineer start puking, and then I start puking. Um, and then, so apparently I was like the biggest puker, even though I was the third one to puke on the aircraft. But, uh, we had a C seventeen, they brought in a third pilot to, to clear the wings, to make sure they didn't hit anything with the wings of the aircraft. So that was, that was pretty interesting to do all that. Um, so from there, I left, uh, my job at Truman, NMSU, which became Truman State. And Army RTC was doing contractor jobs, uh, to teach RTC. And they were hiring guard reserve and active duty officers.

• 48:26Speaker 03

  And at that point, they didn't want anyone to know our status. They didn't want, want anyone to know our contractors. So we were, we were our BDUs, just like everyone else. So I had BDUs with the Cadet Command Patch and I had, you know, stuff for my unit. And I just kind of swapped the blouses depending upon where I was at. And I had opportunities, I was a, you know, captain straight out of company command. And I had an opportunity to go to Mizzou, Illinois State and, uh, Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville. But I also had a class three MP forty Schmizer. And I couldn't take that to Illinois, so that kind of made my decision to go to Mizzou. Um, so I went to Mizzou and started some history classes.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  I taught the freshmen, I was a platoon tac officer that summer. Uh, Greg Hammer, Panama Ranger was my, uh, tac NCO, great guy. We had a blast, we had so much fun together. And when I was at Mizzou, we had some interesting kids go through there. Some of, some are just people in general. Uh, Andrew Bailey, who's now the deputy director of the FBI. He was a cadet there at that time. Uh, Will Edens, who was a KIA in about two thousand and four, he was there. And then Sergeant Major Kevin Griffith was my colleague, my, uh, my, he was the, uh, senior NCO there for a couple of years.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  And he actually, uh, he was one of the four that got killed in that suicide attack that Flo Goberg, uh, shoved the guy away and received the Medal of Honor. So, um, it was, uh, kind of wild to see those people pop up here and there. Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Take a drink. Sure.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  So then nine eleven happens and I'm at Mizzou. I'm teaching Mizzou. I was doing PT. I was leading like incentive PT that morning. And I come back and like the first plane hits the tower and I'm calling. You know. B twenty five hit the Empire State Building in World War Two. The second, the second plane hit the tower. I'm like. Damn it. This is Al Qaeda and I just lost next year. So by ten o'clock I had an email said, hey, we need people to come in. At the, at Transcom. Uh, which is my reserve unit of assignment at that point. And so I actually went down there on the Friday after nine eleven and checked in and got on my J Wix terminal, watched Bush on the mound for my J Wix terminal.

• 51:02Speaker 03

  And uh, my shift changeover was a guy who was, you know, had been working on nine eleven. He's like, okay, um. We have fighters on strip alert at Lambert Field in St. Louis. So if you see any threats, let us know. We can. You know, send some fighters after him. And I'm like, damn, I am like a hundred miles from where I grew up. And this is insane. So went back to Mizzou and like they kept telling us, we're gonna get called up. We're gonna get called up. We're gonna get called up. Finally, they called us up on the first of October. My boss was, the PMS was starting to be kind of a jerk about it. And so when I finally did get called up, like two days in, he shoots me an email. Hey, since you were mobilized, you can't come back to work here.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  And I had, I had just had an excellent performance evaluation. There were no issues up to that point. I'm like, really? Uh, so I printed it, sent it to a US Department of Labor. Filed a case, won that, got my job back. Um. So in the, in the beginning, we augmented the night team and uh. So we would do this terrorism VTC in the middle of the night.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  And there were, um, so all the different agencies, CIA, DIA, uh, Joint Terrorism Task Force, and there was a special ops task force. I think this was around the Rhino era when we were in Rhino. And so like Joint Task Force, whatever, 20 or whatever they were, would pop on and they were clearly in a tent. So we were sitting there one night and we're doing the roll call to make sure everyone's on and task force, whatever it was, 20 pops in and there's gunfire. We're like, damn, what's going on there? Are they getting overrun? Or whatever. And it gets muted and we hear, sorry, we were watching a movie.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  (laughing) So that was a little, little nutty. But, um, another funny thing that kind of happened is we were getting ready to put all those C-17s into Rhino. Um, I think they were moving in the 101st and maybe some Marines in there. And in the middle of the briefing, you know, the C-17 can land on a dirt strip, like it has that capability. But in the middle of the briefing, the J3 is like, have we done any studies about the long-term effects of landing C-17s on dirt runways? The room went quiet. Everyone's just looking at each

• 53:34Speaker 03

  other. And he's like, well, I guess we're about to find out. So, um, so my job, uh, eventually became the asymmetric threat chief. So we produced the DI-SOM, I had the briefing team, uh, had a group of briefers that would then do the, the, the J2 and the J3 briefs in the morning. So, uh, they would come in at like midnight. I would come in at like three or four, kind of read the intel, read their products. We'd brief it to the deputy or the current intelligence chief. And then we'd brief it in the J2 and then we'd go and we'd brief it in the J3 later in the morning. So, um, one of the weirder days is we walked in on a Monday and Anaconda had just happened. And like the J3 is like

• 54:18Speaker 03

  hair on fire. Like, okay, we're air refueling direct Apaches from, or Campbell and we're, we're rounding up all this AC, AC-130 ammo from all of the world, air refuel direct, getting it over there. In the middle of the briefing, the, the J3 is like, chew, how come you didn't tell us about this?

• 54:40Speaker 03

  And we're like, that's because we're the two. Like, we don't know what the J3 is doing. We know what the two is going, is doing. So they actually had to assign an officer to keep track of that. Um, and keep them up to date of what the three was doing because we really had no idea. We were just reading intel traffic. So, uh, I did get to go to the, uh, oh, I, I did get a information war briefing that was super fascinating. I had a guy who kind of worked information war. So we had this arm come in and it was a contractor, contracting company, and they were running the information war campaign for that war. And they gave us, you know, how they do things, how they do information bracketing.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  Like they would put stories out there in advance to get picked up by the media and to drive their briefings. Um, and it really changed my view on everything. Uh, these were just a political company that was hired. And they were doing that. Um, and, and they, they were on like a joint VTC every morning to get the messaging right. Um, just things that you don't really get to see a whole lot of, um. But I went to the Dynamics of International Terrorism course, which was at Joint Special Ops U.

• 56:01Speaker 03

  Which was pretty amazing course. Um, our speakers were General Dozier.

• 56:07Jack Murphy?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  Who had gotten kidnapped by the, uh, Red Brigades. Uh, we had the real guy who was kidnapped by the FARC in Proof of Life. We had the force protection guy from Coburn Towers.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  So it was, it was a legit course. It was really, really good. So, um, so yeah, I, I got released after a year and, uh, in the middle of that, I got another issue with my job in that the contract went from one company from NPRI to Comtech. And I got an email from Comtech and they're like, uh, you've never worked for us, so you don't have any reemployment rights with us.

• 56:52Speaker 03

  Um, so I went to my Department of Labor rep and I'm like, dude, what's going on here? Like, I don't, I don't know what to make of this. He goes, no problem. Got it. It's a continuation of interest. So they ended up having to hire like a dozen people back that they tried to screw over.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  So, um, so then I went back to Mizzou, that reserve unit and oh yeah, another thing is I did do is I did brief at the, the 1003 uh, tip fit briefing for Iraqi freedom. And that was in February of oh two. So I, you know, went into the vault, got right into the plan and then presented my briefing before the assembled crew and the, the tip fit meeting is like a big food fight. Or everyone wants to get their folks in early. Like, do you take the loggies in early? Do you take the infantry in early? Do you do those kinds of things? Like, what's the right flow for all this where everything works the best? So that, that was pretty interesting. Um,

• 57:51Speaker 03

  so I went back to Mizzou and then I was back at ROTC. Everything's going great. And then I get another email, hey, from, from my company, hey, we are overstaffed at your position and you're the junior employee. So you have to go.

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• 59:58Speaker 03

  I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm the original guy. Like, I am the first guy. Like, none of this happened without me getting called up a year ago, or a year and a half ago. So again, I called Dennis McElroy, U.S. Department of Labor. He's like, what are these people thinking? So, again, I got reinstated again. Third time I had to get my job back. Now, I felt awful, though, because the guy who had taken my position, a buddy of mine named Terry Heisler, he, Signal Corps guy. So he was losing his job, but I actually called Transcom and got him hooked up with a J6 because he was a Signal Corps dude. And so he got orders to go to Transcom J6 for like a year, and it actually worked out

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  for him because his daughter got really sick with cancer and needed that medical attention that would be paid for, so. So that actually worked out for him. He now owns a beer garden in Washington, Missouri, so John G's if you ever go there. So, really, I mean, from there, just continued to teach ROTC. Summer of '07, I walked Sticks Lanes, and I was doing pretty well. I felt pretty good about all that. So I was at the Vans Camp up in Lewis. Walk in, I don't know, five, seven miles a day with gear.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  I got back and I was at a World War II Division reunion to connect with some vets I knew and I had this massive chest pain. I was like, oh shit, what is this? I went white. Um, and then I recovered. I went and saw the doctor. They didn't know what it was. Um, so then I went to, a couple of weeks later, I was at Kansas City for drill. And I had another one of those in the har- in, in, in a hotel room. I was by myself, so I called 911, ended up in the hospital. Um, and really that started like a year-long ordeal for me. My spleen was destroying my red blood cells. And my hemoglobin count was like 4.8, where it's supposed to be like 15 to 18. So, uh, it was really my spleen that was causing that. So I went through that.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  For, for a period of time. And then it was really kind of time for me to get out of Mizzou. Like, Mizzou, I was just kind of done with it. And, um, so I went ahead and got a job at Missouri Military Academy. Although the last year we were there, we got the MacArthur Award for Best ROTC Program, Western Mississippi. And we had failed a inspection like four years before horribly. I mean, I thought my boss was gonna jump over a table at, uh, our, our personnel person.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  But, um, so. I, uh. Um, I also changed reserve units. I got out of the, got out of the JTRU. I just felt like I'd done everything I could there. And again, it's your free agent. You gotta go find another job. So I actually found, uh, Command and General Staff College, which I had a background in education. That seemed to be like a good fit. So they, so they put me in as the S3 and then I could become a student. After that, which was perfect, because I wasn't have to do like two weekends. So my first job as the S3 was, was to give a PT test to 80 lieutenant colonels. And that was a good time. And, um.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  So I ended up finishing the course and became a instructor. And then I eventually became a lead instructor and then I became a head of school for that unit. On the civilian side, I went to Missouri Military Academy as a director of college placement counseling. So it was again another uniform job. I did testing, college placement, toss history, military history. One of the kids that was there, some people may know Ian Ives. He was a combat cameraman that got blown up in Afghanistan in 2019. So he was one of, he was one of my kids there and he's doing okay. I think he lost an eye and jacked up his arm pretty good, but. So I was there for six years. It was pretty toxic.

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  So then I ended up looking for another job. And my final job in the Army Reserve was that I had to set up a schoolhouse at Camp Parks, California, which is where the Mythbusters blow everything up. So it's right across the mountains from Oakland, California. And so it was a new site. I had to go out there, had to figure out how everyone was going to get there, messing, classrooms, all that kind of stuff. And then when we did our first iteration out there, it was March of 2015. And I had four classrooms, maybe eight instructors. And at one point I had like 12 inspectors there on the ground.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  And these were all people that got orders to come out to California in the winter. And then they would check in with us for like an hour or two hours and say, everything's going great. And we wouldn't see him for four days. So, but yeah, I ended up retiring from there. And then I ended up at the Catholic school that I'm at right now. Because I was friends with the principal and she wanted the program, placement program that I built at the Military Academy. I kind of turned around that program. And so we I we I ended up getting hired in 2014 and jumped in there and basically started doing a lot of the same things I was doing at the military academy, except this time I got to work with girls. So, working with, you know, working all with boys before and

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  now there are boys and girls, although our kids are so sweet, they're great kids. So, so yeah, I'm in my 12th year there, fourth principal, went through COVID school, we stayed open where the public schools closed. So I do the master schedule, career center, which is like our VOTech Center, coordinate with that, I'm like the LNO for that, Moberly Area Community College, we're the largest earner of dual credits for Moberly Area Community College, although we are one of the smaller schools, testing, just drop a few names of some kids we've had through the school, this guy in Brooklyn, you might know him by the name of Michael Porter Jr., plays for the Mets.

• 1:06:06Jack Murphy?

  I don't know anything about baseball, I'm afraid.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, Mets.

• 1:06:12Jack Murphy?

  The only person from Brooklyn that people seem to be talking about this week, it's Jeffrey Epstein.

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  Imagine that, imagine that. Well, anyway, they're talking about trading him from Brooklyn to Detroit, but, so he was a kid at our school for a couple of years, his brother John Tay, real good kid, but he got caught up in that whole gambling thing up with the Toronto Raptors.

• 1:06:34Jack Murphy?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:35Speaker 03

  So, and he got banned for life from that. And then Cam Lee is a kid that just got picked up by the Baltimore Orioles, and then there's another kid who was just kind of floating around by the name of Sophie Cunningham, who you might know of her as a player on the Indiana Beaver, she's a, she's like the enforcer for Katelyn Clark. So she didn't go to my school, but she, she was the same age and went through eighth grade with the kids at my school. And so she was always around, I actually knew her grandma, so those are kind of all my brushes with greatness.

• 1:07:08Jack Murphy?

  That's cool.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, so it's, it's been interesting, we've had a lot of, a lot of kind of known people that I brushed up against here and there, so it's been, it's been a good run.

• 1:07:18Jack Murphy?

  And how did the, our writing come into the picture? How did that start for you?

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, really, it was, I got a B A M A in history. And that's what you do, you write. And so when it came time to write my master's thesis, I was discouraged to write anything military, like you can't get a job if you write something military. So I was a little bit desperate for a topic, so I was watching the movie Convoy with, based upon the song, the C W McCall song, Kris Kristofferson. I'm watching this movie, I'm like, this is an amazing expression of American culture. So I actually wrote my master's thesis as a cultural history of CB radios, which is actually my first book. In fact, I argue that it's, that it's really America's first social media platform.

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  So there's that.

• 1:08:14Speaker 03

  The second book was a, just a paper I turned into about a doctor who gets himself arrested down in Southern Boone County and gets himself released by the president. And then third book was a series of articles I sewed together about army chaplains, like what, what they, what were their qualifications? What equipment did they have? And what were some of like the basic soldier religious items? And then the third book, a fourth book, involves this guy right here.

• 1:08:47Jack Murphy?

  Homing pigeon?

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wrote, I wrote the book War Pigeons, which is about the Signal Pigeon Corps, and how the Signal Pigeon Corps operated and how a Signal Pigeon company operated in the army and all the different equipment and things like that. So that was a lot of fun to write and I get to speak about that one in Missouri. And then my fifth book was about a small town in Missouri that burned in 90 minutes in October 22nd, 2022. A combine spit a wall of flame at them, at the town. Eight minutes later, the first home caught on fire. And 90 minutes later, half of this town of 28 people is gone. It was crazy.

• 1:09:31Jack Murphy?

  What led up to that, just out of curiosity? Like, how did it burn so quickly? That's like kind of unheard of in this day and age, right?

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  Well, it's certainly unheard of in the Midwest, like California, you know, still big deal.

• 1:09:43Jack Murphy?

  Sure, huge wildfire, yeah.

• 1:09:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I wrote a book about wildfires before wildfires were cool in Hawaii and California. But it was a, it's a red flag warning, average 20 mile per hour winds. There was a defect in the, in the combine and he was going basically east to west. The winds were coming from the south and it just put out this wall of flame, quarter mile wall of flame. And those winds just pushed it into the first homes and, you know, people, people looked out their doors and there's a wall of flame coming at their house. So it was a little crazy and the first responder, I have all the audio recordings for it. I have the 911 call and I have the, the, um, like the first responder.

• 1:10:28Speaker 03

  And so there's like a 22 year old firefighter, he lives in the fire station, volunteer fire department. He, you know, a five acre brush fire, Waldridge, Missouri. He rolls down there, he shows up and the whole town's catching on fire and he's by himself.

• 1:10:43Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  And you can hear it in his voice. He's like, he's stressed, but he's like, he immediately called for second tone and then third tones to get backups. He started evacuating the town. He got on the speaker on, on his brush truck and told people to get out of there and called for backup. And he's really a, he's a little bit of a hero. Uh, well, well, he did everything right, let's just say that.

• 1:11:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:11Speaker 03

  But the people in that town, only one family had insurance. Uh, everyone else lost everything. They didn't get anything from FEMA. It's just kind of a, a really, really sad story about what happened there. But it was the largest mutual aid fire response in the history of the state of Missouri. 163 firefighters from 66 departments showed up to that. Um, so that was, and I, I only got into that story because we were, uh, I'd heard about it. I was out of town when it happened and I heard about it and we had some families that lived in that area from the school. And.

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  I uh, I just, I, I called the, the family contact. I'm like, you guys need help? We've got like a day off coming up here. We can get some kids to come down and help. And like made some calls. Yeah, sure. We had forty-four kids show up and parents and, and we didn't have to tell them to do a damn thing. Like they, they saw what they had to do. And the only thing that was left was like doorknobs and appliances and, you know, uh, some kids were digging around and found some rings and a few other personal artifacts, but it was, it was, it was not good. Um, and then they called us and wanted us to come back. And so we went back over Christmas and New Year's and a couple of weeks later I had this brilliant idea to write a book about it. And I thought, oh, a hundred page book, you know, firefighters being

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  helpful and safety and all that kind of stuff. And then I got into it and it got pretty dark at different points, but it came out on the anniversary of the fire.

• 1:12:41Jack Murphy?

  Wow. Um, no, I mean, it's, it's great that you were able to chronicle that, um, piece of local history.

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's really a crazy story when you get into it and just, and I'm, and the problem with writing that book is like twenty things are happening literally at the same time. So you have to kind of interweave and introduce characters and things like that. So my, uh, my sixth book was on the US military handcart, which I know people are super excited about that. But so the US military used hand carts from World War One really until Korea. So the whole purpose of them were to carry heavy weapons. And so before half-tracks existed, the plan for mechanized infantry was to use ton and a half trucks.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  And this is in the mid nineteen thirties. So the ton and a half trucks would go up to a couple of miles short or maybe like a mile short of the front lines as the tanks rolled forward. And then these guys would dismount and they would take their weapons on these carts. And so the army perfected that design, but then by World War Two starting, they had half-tracks, they had Jeeps, they had things that they could mount weapons.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  So they ended up, um, they ended up, um, uh, giving them to airborne units and assault units that may not have their equipment. So a lot of people refer to them as airborne carts, but they really predate airborne by like five years. So that was my sixth and now my seventh by catchers, interrogators and analysts. And that's why we're here today.

• 1:14:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. So tell us about this book, what this one's about.

• 1:14:27Speaker 03

  Well, most, most history about intelligence in World War II focuses on really two things. The OSS and glorious bastards, that kind of stuff.

• 1:14:37Jack Murphy?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

  And, and, and Bledsley Park, like the whole imitation game and things like that. And so I knew that there were a lot of other folks on the ground. So I went through to kind of document all of these other MOSs, which are really the foundation for what we have in MI today. And I started off with doctrine and looked at it. And it's really not that different than what I learned, uh, in, in the eighties, late eighties. Um, intelligence for the commander, they have a decision support template. That's part of that. It's, it's a little slightly different. They have essential elements of information, which is really like their P I Rs at that point. But, um, so I, I, I documented that. And then I went

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  through the pipelines of where these soldiers came from. Now, the U S didn't have really any cap, serious capability before World War II. They had like 16 counterintelligence police. There were some sick gunners. Yep. And that was about it. But so they went to the Brits and said, how do you guys do this? And they gave them a template. And that's what they ended up using. So they stood up a schoolhouse at Camp Ritchie, Maryland.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  And

• 1:15:50Speaker 03

  The the schoolhouse trained the photo interpreters and order battle teams and then they also trained the ETO based linguists and a lot of those were expat German Jews. Again, they're called the Richie Boys because they had.

• 1:16:06Jack Murphy?

  Henry Kissinger is in the book.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, Kissinger is a little bit different. Kissinger was actually never a school trained MI guy and his the guy that he rode on the coattails with was also not a school trained guy. In fact, Fritz Kramer, the other guy was trying to get into the OSS and they didn't take him. So he got drafted as an infantryman and he was up on a platform yelling during a training exercise. I mean, he's like an infantry private yelling at them in German to try and make the training seem better. And the division commander is there. He's like, who's that guy? Who's that guy there? So they actually actually moved him into the G2 shop and he became friends with Kissinger. Now Kissinger was a high IQ guy. He was going to Brooklyn College, maybe,

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  or somewhere like City College of New York to become an accountant. And he gets drafted and he gets he's a high IQ guy. So he gets put in this army specialized training program, which took high IQ guys and they send them to college to try and have them get degrees and operate the more high tech equipment in 1945, 1946, 1947, as the war goes on. So, you know, Kissinger goes to a college in Pennsylvania and, you know, doing well and the army in the spring of 1944 discovers they have a personnel shortage. They have an infantryman shortage and where can we get more infantrymen? There's 300,000 college

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  boys. So they they knocked the ASTP from 300,000 to 30,000 and sent all those guys on orders to the infantry divisions.

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  So Kissinger shows up to G Company of the 335th Infantry, just a normal infantry company, and he immediately gets poison ivy and is in the hospital for 45 days. And then they did some sort of a psychological test with him and they found that he wasn't really suited to be an infantryman, so they made him like a driver. And then eventually his connections with Kramer, who talks to the division commander, gets him assigned to the counterintelligence corps. And he ends up working in the counterintelligence corps and Kramer gets a German garrison to surrender of like 50 guys by himself in like November, December of 44. He literally just walks into this town and talks to them and gets them to surrender.

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  So he gets a field promotion. And then Kissinger's given this assignment to stand up like civil affairs operations in this one German village. And he gets everything going in a period of like two weeks and he gets promoted to sergeant. They tried to get him constructive credit to be a CIC agent and the army said no. And he did actually get his, he actually did become a certified agent, but that was not until like 1947. So Kramer and Kissinger actually became long-term friends. And the book actually has a picture of Kramer and Kissinger sitting in the Oval Office with Nixon. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

• 1:19:09Jack Murphy?

  And so what has the reception been like to the book so far?

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  It's been pretty good. It's pretty good. I was just at Show of Shows in Louisville and it was, you know, people are like, oh, this is really interesting. Sold quite a few copies of it and just starting to get the promotion for it out there. That's why we're talking today.

• 1:19:32Jack Murphy?

  Sure.

• 1:19:33Speaker 03

  But, but.

• 1:19:36Speaker 03

  It's uh, it's just a completely different angle. Um, and really, a lot of this information is already out there. You know, like the NISI interpreters, interrogators, that whole, that whole school that they, they set up in Minnesota, the Sagan operations at Vin Hill Farms. Um, the CIC got itself into a little bit of trouble early on. They, they tried to make them into, um, they tried to make them into like G-men. Uh, so their schoolhouse was in Chicago at the Tower Town Club on Michigan Avenue. So they would go out and they'd do their practice surveillance exercises and stuff on Michigan

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  Avenue. And they would, um, they would go to underwriters laboratory to get some like scientific training in the Chicago Police Lab. In 1943, they got themselves in a little bit of hot water. So they were, they were following a guy who was involved with the, uh, youth labor movement, who they thought was a communist. I feel pretty sure he was a communist, in fact. And, um, he was friends with Eleanor Roosevelt. In fact, Eleanor Roosevelt introduced him to his future spouse. And so the CIC recorded a meeting between him and Eleanor Roosevelt, and then later on, they've recorded

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  an encounter between him and his future wife in the same hotel room. Um, that's one version of the story. The other story is a little bit different. Um, uh, just some of the details are a little different if you read the guy who is involved's account. But word gets back to the White House that the CIC may have, uh, intercepted an encounter with the First Lady. And that did not play well.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  So they ended up shit rolled downhill to the CIC. And they got banned from Washington. The schoolhouse got shut down for like a year. Eventually it was reestablished at Ritchie. And they focused on tactical counterintelligence. But it was kind of a not a good situation for them to be in.

• 1:21:52Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, I can imagine. Um, well, I think it's great that you captured this unit history. Um, and this is the type of book that, you know, people in your career field are going to want to read. Um, and as you said, I mean, a lot of it is already out there. A lot of this stuff is declassified. But it's incumbent on folks like you to kind of bring it all together.

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I've got one story I want to talk about, though, from my school, if you'll indulge me.

• 1:22:20Jack Murphy?

  Sure.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  So, um, a few years ago, we had, and I have permission from the parent to do this. But we had an international kid that had come to our school, very, very talented kid from a country that had just been invaded. You can figure out which one it is. And, you know, a six foot 10 target's not a good thing, a junior Olympic level player. And he showed up on our doorstep. And so we gave him an I 20. He was there for about five days and we lost him. He disappeared. We didn't know where he went. We're trying to find him. He was with this, uh, like, um, post-high school basketball team thing, uh, that turned out to be a little sketchy.

• 1:23:04Speaker 03

  So, but we couldn't find this kid and we called the cops. We did everything we could do. And we were getting into a situation where we were in the I 20 fraud. And so I saw him on Valentine's Day in the grocery store, but I lost track of him. And then like about a week later, my phone rang and it was a sports agent from somewhere in Virginia. And he calls me and he's the guy that put the kid into this particular school. And so it turns out what had happened is the sports program had the prior year.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  There's gonna be a connection here, just let me get to it. The uh, this particular sports program, uh, the year before had lived in some student housing and uh, not paid the entire year and uh, they got, they got fined seventy-four thousand dollars. So this was the second year, so he actually, the guy who ran it rented a dorm from a, a local university and then he didn't pay them either, so they kicked him out because there was vandalism and drug use and things like that. So, and then they bounced from hotel to hotel to hotel with, with, uh, as soon as, you know, like a week, no payment, they would move. Another week, no payment, they would move. And this, this is like twenty people, this is not a small group.

• 1:24:21Speaker 03

  And so this, this coach calls me, says, you know, this, this kid, I put him here, I feel bad, he's in a bad situation, we gotta go get him. Like, like, we gotta do something here, this is not a good situation. The, that particular team had ended, so this kid was living in an apartment with a mattress and nothing else. The, the dudes he was living with were like charging him to go to the grocery store. Not, not a cool situation, so we're like, okay, well, have him get to school. So he gets to school. And we figure out what's going on, all these different threads about, you know, what's really going on with this situation. We called a guy from a organization called City of Refuge, he found like an older couple

• 1:25:06Speaker 03

  who's gonna, who are willing to take him, we're like, oh, thank God. And so they called their doctor to get advice, and the doctor was a school mom from my school, and she's like, well, hey, we'll take him. So, um, so, okay, we got a good place for this guy, but we gotta go get this kid. And so, the City of Refuge guy thought that this might be a little bit shady, uh, like this may, this may break bad for us, so, you know, rather than a pickup, it could become an distraction. So he called a lady named Nanette, who's with the Stop Human Trafficking Coalition, and she agreed, and she gave us a security guy. So we met at the fire station, and this security dude rolls up. And this dude is frickin' John Wick, he's driving a five series BMW, he looks like he just stepped out of a...

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  Out of a structure store and we kind of developed a plan and then we went knocked on the door. It turned out to be a non-event and the John Wick dude disappeared. So I finally figured out who John Wick was. That was a guy by the name of Ryan Burke. Does that ring a bell?

• 1:26:11Jack Murphy?

  No.

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  Andrew Milburn would know who he is. He's the guy that sued Andrew Milburn.

• 1:26:20Jack Murphy?

  Oh.

• 1:26:20Speaker 03

  For defamation.

• 1:26:23Jack Murphy?

  I'm sure that was.

• 1:26:24Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:26:24Jack Murphy?

  He just got shot and killed, actually, that guy.

• 1:26:27Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:26:28Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's kind of where I was going with this. Yeah, he got about two weeks ago, Saturday night, or Sunday night before, before Martin Luther King Day, he was doing a Facebook Marketplace deal. And these four kids showed up, the oldest being 18, one was a juvenile. The deal went bad and they shot and killed him.

• 1:26:53Jack Murphy?

  I think I saw.

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• 1:28:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it was in the press. I didn't know it was the guy that tried to sue Milburn. Yeah. Wow. Holy shit.

• 1:28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the same guy. And actually, I found out later on that he almost became my coworker in that he was in the running for like a campus ministry job to work with me. And the lady that we ended up hiring ended up actually becoming really good friends with him. And actually, he was so distraught, he couldn't come into work the day after this happened. But so, I would suggest everyone look at his Facebook profile and just see who he is and what he is. The allegations that came out from Andrew, I think Andrew was coming from an honorable place. I think that he, you know, again, he won the lawsuit, the defamation suit, although

• 1:29:41Speaker 03

  that may not necessarily, that may just speak to his motivations and sourcing, but not necessarily what occurred. In the end, only two people in the world know what happened in that situation. And I know people... Who went to who grew up with him here in Colombia. I knew people who knew him when he was at Mizzou. I was at Mizzou at the same time. Uh, this was the dude that showed up from the Human Trafficking Coalition to go get that kid on a Sunday morning that he didn't know. And I, I don't know what happened in Ukraine, but I can say, I, what I will say is it's completely out of character with who he is.

• 1:30:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely out of character with who he is. And I'm actually very nice. There are many of my friends who are like, this is absolute bullshit. So, but again, I'm not accusing Andrew of anything. Um, I think he was probably coming, he's an officer and a gentleman. I'm assuming he's coming from a good place. But, uh, you know, stuff can happen with alcohol. I get that. But in the end, this is completely out of character with the rest of this man's life. And, uh, I'm just trying to set the record straight. Cause I met him. I looked him in the eye and he helped me.

• 1:30:57Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, people are multifaceted. They're not all good or all bad, um, as we often want to believe.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  Sorry, sorry to drop that on you at the end, but you know, um, I say the, the people that I knew that knew him were just amazing. Um, 20 of the best people I've ever met in my life. Um, and you know, people are still upset about it. So.

• 1:31:22Jack Murphy?

  I, I believe it, of course.

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  So I don't, I don't know what happened in Ukraine, but I can tell you everyone in his hometown and in the town where he died thinks it's, it's not true.

• 1:31:34Jack Murphy?

  I mean, whatever the case, it's kind of irrelevant, isn't it? I mean, the, the guy got murdered by, you know, trying to sell something on Facebook, Facebook Marketplace. I mean, I think that's sort of the bigger issue here.

• 1:31:47Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I think so, but this is like the day after this happened, a local media company put out a story saying that he may have been murdered because of what happened in Ukraine. And I'm like, oh, I don't.

• 1:32:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I don't think so.

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I know, I don't think so. I think this guy was just trying to grab a headline and things like that. But it really kind of brought it back to the forefront. Uh, and really, really sullied this guy's reputation. So I would encourage anyone to just go look at his Facebook profile and see who he was. It's very curated. It's very millennial. But like there's like one of the last videos he posted was him playing his guitar for a bunch of schoolchildren in Uganda. And that was a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:32:29Jack Murphy?

  Damn, that's terrible.

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:34Jack Murphy?

  Um, so Tim, uh, anything else you want to talk about before we get going tonight?

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  I think that's basically it. I, you know, I appreciate, appreciate the time coming on here. If you're interested in the book, um, go to Lulu.com and search for my name, Tim Sheer, S-E-H-E-R-R-E-R. And, um, should come up, uh, with my page. It's not on Amazon yet. Um, and might not for a while, but, uh, I think it's, I think it's a solid book. I had a lot of fun writing it, and I think people are going to enjoy it.

• 1:33:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's great. Um, and your other books can be found there, too?

• 1:33:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, everything's on there. Actually, there's a cat calendar on there, too, although I made that for my mom. So, and in fact, your, my mom loved, loved your book.

• 1:33:25Jack Murphy?

  Oh, really?

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  My mom loved your book.

• 1:33:26Jack Murphy?

  Oh, great. I'm happy to hear that.

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I gave it to her for Christmas last year, and it was a big hit in the, uh, 85 Year Old in Detroit Home demo.

• 1:33:37Jack Murphy?

  That's great. It's right in their wheelhouse. Everyone, thanks for joining us tonight. Really appreciate Tim Sheer joining us on the show. The book is Spy Catchers, Interrogators and Analysts. I hope you guys will go check it out at Lulu.com. Uh, and we will see all of you next time.

• 1:33:59Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to tell all of you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that encompasses both the Team House Podcast, the Eyes On Podcast, and the High Side News Outlet, which I run with Shawn Naylor. The newsletter is going to be once a week. It's going to come into your inbox and you're going to get the most current podcasts on Eyes On and the Team House and whatever's topical or current on the High Side. So it's another way for us to get the information out to you as social media algorithms are pretty iffy and you never really know what you're going to get. So this is a once a week email. It'll slide into your inbox and it will have, you know, the greatest hits of that week. It's really good. Checking it out.

• 1:34:43Jack Murphy?

  The website for it is teamhospodcast.kit.com/join. Teamhospodcast.kit.com/join. Go there and you enter into your email list or you enter your email into the little thing on the website and you're good to go and that'll be it. So we really appreciate your support and hope you'll consider signing up. Where's the link? The link will also be down in the description if you're looking for it there. And that's teamhospodcast.kit, K-I-T, Kilo, India, Tango, dot com, backslash.

• 1:35:19Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a Point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't

• 1:36:02Speaker 04

  just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:36:17Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible

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  draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:37:24Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated.

• 1:37:56Speaker 05

  He made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:38:00Speaker 04

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:38:20Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, Study Mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:38:48Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:39:24Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At The Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel. People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood. And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:39:55Speaker 05

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:40:01Speaker 04

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 1:40:21Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:40:48Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:41:26Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:41:41Speaker 00

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way, that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:41:52Speaker 04

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:42:03Speaker 04

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:42:23Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:43:27Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:43:42Speaker 00

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to "I'm deathly allergic," in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:43:53Speaker 04

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:44:04Speaker 04

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:44:24Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:44:52Speaker 00

  Built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:45:28Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:45:42Speaker 00

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:45:53Speaker 04

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:46:24Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, Study Mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:46:52Speaker 00

  Cash flow crutch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available

• 1:47:15Speaker 04

  As soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:47:30Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:47:44Speaker 00

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to, I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:47:55Speaker 04

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone. One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies. So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:48:26Speaker 05

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment,

• 1:49:11Speaker 05

  get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  As soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:49:39Speaker 05

  Zolir 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolir, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolir. Zolir may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolir should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolir is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolir.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolir. This is an advertisement for Zolir

• 1:50:24Speaker 05

  paid for by Genentech and Novartis. ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com/parents to learn more.

• 1:50:54Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.