Delta Force EOD Operator | Taamir Ransome

Taamir Ransome joins The Team House to discuss his path from the 82nd Airborne to EOD, the 75th Ranger Regiment, and eventually Delta Force, including deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. He also opens up about getting blown up repeatedly, the toll of the job, writing Mind of a Soldier, and the brutal reality of transitioning out of the military after a career in special operations. Grab Taamir's book "Mind of a Soldier: 34 Laws for the War After the War" here -- https://a.co/06Xoy11w https://www.linkedin.com/in/taamir-ransome-b8442391 Today's Sponsors: GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! Quince⬇️ go to: https://www.quince.com/house for free shipping and 365 day returns For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ PRE ORDER JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 — Start 01:08 — Growing up, wanting to be a rapper, and joining the Army 03:20 — Radar repair, the 82nd Airborne, and signing up after 9/11 06:15 — Deploying to Fallujah and getting attached to the battalion commander’s PSD 10:47 — Trying for Special Forces, failing land nav, and finding the EOD path 13:15 — EOD school, explosives training, and why it was the hardest school he attended 18:04 — An 18-month EOD deployment in Mosul during the height of the IED fight 21:15 — Standing up the 28th EOD Company to support the Ranger Regiment 25:01 — First deployment with Ranger Battalion and learning SOF EOD on the fly 28:51 — Afghanistan, mountain warfare, booby-trapped rooftops, and Ranger casualties 31:30 — Getting blown up, warning the commander, and clearing a path for the medevac 35:40 — Helicopter shot down in Kandahar and taking fire after the crash 39:20 — Selection for Delta Force and the EOD role inside the unit 43:18 — In-extremis EOD training, hostage rescue, and going through OTC 50:22 — Life inside the unit, combat deployments, Syria, ISIS, and booby-trapped warfare 01:15:03 — Writing Mind of a Soldier, leaving the military, and struggling with transition 01:20:01 — The VA, veteran mental health, suicide, and being “functionally messed up” 01:35:04 — Helping enlisted veterans transition, hiring bias, TBI, and service dogs Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:55Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to tell you tonight about my new novel, The Most Dangerous Man, coming out June 9th. I think, like a lot of you, I read in high school the short story, The Greatest Game, which is almost a century old at this point, but it's the classic premise of man hunting man for sport. This book is based off of that a little bit, but also on stories that I have heard over the years about safari guides that have actually taken hunting parties, wealthy people, hunting poachers in West Africa. That idea kind of cooked off in my mind when I was asked to write a novel and get back into writing fiction again.

• 1:39Jack Murphy?

  And this book is about a ranger with the Ranger Reconnaissance Company. He's on a mission in West Africa and gets kidnapped and hunted for sport by a group of wealthy tech billionaires. I had a lot of fun writing this book, and I think you'll have a good time reading it. It's a quick, fast and furious, fast-paced action novel, and I hope you all check it out. It's up there, you can find it wherever books are sold, the hard copy, the hardback, the soft cover, and also the Kindle ebook edition. And we'll have some links down in the description for you. The book comes out June 9th, and I hope you all let me know what you think of it.

• 2:30Jack Murphy?

  Hey folks, welcome to the Team House. I'm Jack Murphy, here with our guest today, Taamir Ransom, who is the author of Mind of a Soldier: 34 Laws of War After the War. I'm almost done reading this book. I can't recommend it enough. Probably the most important book about transitioning out of the military in a civilian life for veterans to read is probably this one. Taamir has a pretty amazing career, served as an explosive ordinance disposal technician in the 75th Ranger Regiment, and then in Delta Force. Many deployments with both of those units, and then retired, you know, just three years

• 3:12Jack Murphy?

  ago, and currently working on the book. So Taamir, thank you for joining us on the show. We really appreciate it.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

• 3:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Well, let's, let's start at the beginning, man. Tell us a little bit about sort of like your upbringing and like, why, why did you even join the Army in the first place?

• 3:33Speaker 03

  So this got me slapped in serious school, but it's a true story. Um, I wanted to be a rapper initially, and I was doing construction in Atlanta. And my promise, me and my cousin made a promise that if our rap careers didn't take off by the time we were 18, we'd join the Army.

• 3:49Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  Seriously, like that. Again, it got slapped. It got me slapped in serious school, but it's a true story.

• 3:55Jack Murphy?

  So what, what was your kind of teenage rap career like?

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Oh, it was trash, man. Like, it was me working at frigging Burger King and doing other stuff as a pharmacist, if you will, and just kind of getting by, trying to pay for studio time. But, uh, yeah, like, um, I've always been a writer, but like, rapping just wasn't in the car screen. I'm glad, though.

• 4:18Jack Murphy?

  So we can't find you on like some obscure YouTube video, rapping?

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Nah, this is way before YouTube made it. So it's more like 99 to 01.

• 4:27Jack Murphy?

  Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. Damn.

• 4:32Jack Murphy?

  So, so did your friend follow through on this promise also?

• 4:37Speaker 03

  No, so my cousin actually got a, uh, he went to college and got a degree in music production, but like I always wanted to be a protector, man. I've known that since I was a kid. I wanted to be a ninja, right? Growing up. So, uh, um, joining the army was, was like a no brainer for me.

• 4:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Where do you think that came from? Is that like something that came from your parents?

• 4:53Speaker 03

  No, not at all. I only heard like horror stories about people in the army. Like when I joined the army, I wanted to be infantry. And my mom told me like that I was going to be a bullet sponge. This is before nine 11. And I was just like, but I want to join the army. And like all she had to go off was, uh, her grandfather and her crazy uncle from Vietnam.

• 5:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course they're scared for you.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 5:13Jack Murphy?

  I remember talking to, uh, years ago, someone on the show who, uh, whose father was in Vietnam and was so upset with his son joining the Ranger Regiment until he came to see his son graduate, RIP, uh, and saw like what the regiment had become, what the army had become since Vietnam. You know, it's, it's a different animal now.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. The same for me. Like my mom was like, I'll support it if you do a technical job. That's how I picked radar repair.

• 5:40Jack Murphy?

  Okay. So you came into the army as a radar repair guy and you were in the 82nd?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 5:47Jack Murphy?

  Well, what was that like? This was, this is still pre nine 11, I take it?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  No, so, uh, I was working construction in Atlanta on nine 11 and my recruiter called me. He goes, uh, you still want to join? So I guess a bunch of people are backing out. And I was like, uh, we're going to war, right? And he's like, yeah, I think so. I was like, you know, sign me up, dude. Like I've never done war before. So it's not pretty cool, right? So, um, uh, when I was in Fort Sill for my first AIT, um, Dr. Sarnary, I'll never forget this dude. He's like the epitome of what a soldier is. Um, and he's always talking about his division and the 82nd. And I was at, at the time, like again, I had no clue. I thought like the 82nd was the most elite thing on the planet. And so I was like, I want to go airborne. I want to go to 82nd. And so he hooked me up with a contract.

• 6:30Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome. And I mean, how did you like the army, uh, coming in as a young guy? Do you, you take, take to it pretty easy?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. So my mom was mean. I love her to death. She's the sweetest woman ever, but like, uh, we had to make our bed with hospital folds. We had, you know, six inch folds on our stuff. Like, uh, if I didn't like, there's been about three or four times that I didn't make my bed before school. And I came home, my entire bed was apart, like not like she flipped the bed. She took it apart and I had to rebuild my bunk bed because I shared a bunk bed with my brother and then make the bed.

• 7:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's even more extreme than basic training. So yeah, I get it.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Basic training was easy for you, man. Like, there's nobody beating my mother when it comes to cleaning the house.

• 7:10Jack Murphy?

  You're good to go. And what exactly is the job of a radar repair guy at the 82nd?

• 7:20Speaker 03

  Oh, so it's funny. They sent me to 782nd. And so normally you would go to the Vardy Division Artillery and fix the, back then it was the Q36, Q37 radars. Those are like the anti-artillery radars.

• 7:37Speaker 03

  But they sent me to a small, like, special electronics company. And so I was fixing like night vision goggles, computers, a bunch of other stuff tinkering. The one radar I was supposed to fix was a speed radar for the MPs. I never fixed it.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  I refused to help the police that that time, so.

• 7:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I appreciate that. I at one point had to go in for like, you ever have to do one of those like remedial training events on a Saturday at Fort Bragg? Because you got a speeding ticket and like you go in there and they scold all of you and tell you that, you know, if you drive wearing sunglasses, you're doing something dangerous.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was that was my thing to the man. Cause I think I did that like two weeks prior and I was like, I ain't fixing this freaking radar. So it stayed on the shelf. So after we got back.

• 8:29Jack Murphy?

  So you're a radar repair guy in the 82nd Airborne. America is at war at this point. Are you looking at deployments or is this like purely a stateside job for you?

• 8:40Speaker 03

  No, so we deployed and I was already training up like once, you know, when you get to Bragg, they give you these briefs, right? You get a brief from SF guys, the Green Berets, and he gets other brief from, these guys in suits and they're like, don't go this far down Gruber Road, right? And so again, I had no freaking clue with any of this. I didn't know what a Green Beret was. I didn't know what a Ranger was really. And then I didn't know what the hell was down Gruber Road. So I started asking around and like in the paraglider, they would always have these, these things are like, hey, we're going to recruit. And so at the time, the story was that if you can get to the commander's, this is at the unit, you can get on the compound and you can get to the commander's desk, you will automatically be accepted as a unit. My young dumb self was like, that's the plan I came up with. So I started freaking skydiving.

• 9:25Speaker 03

  I started fucking doing like Wing Chung boxing. Like I was working out. So when I deployed with the 82nd, they put me on my, uh, everybody knew what I was doing. I don't know. Like they thought I was crazy as hell, but they knew what I was doing. So they ended up putting me on, um, my, uh, battalion commander's PSD. And that's the whole, that's what I did for that whole deployment. And so we just get in the firefighters all over Fallujah. And I was like, yeah, this is what I like. This is what I want to do.

• 9:49Jack Murphy?

  But by the way, I mean, just to warn any hapless private on Fort Bragg that tries that, you will be shot as you jump the fence.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 9:58Jack Murphy?

  Don't do that.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. Don't ask me why. I don't know who the hell I was gonna get to fly me over to the freaking compound or over Fort Bragg period. But like, like 19 year old me was like, I'm learning how to skydive. I'm learning like, I was going to, I was paying for shooting courses. All my money went into training to get, get to the commander's desk.

• 10:14Jack Murphy?

  Dude, you were gonna be like a DB Cooper.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:19Jack Murphy?

  So you get, you get over to Fallujah and like, it, it sounds like you're really in the shit at this point?

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, uh, the 82nd at Fallujah, and then this was right, this is when we locked it down the first time, right before we handed it over to some Marines. Right before they, uh, right before they captured Saddam.

• 10:37Jack Murphy?

  So this is like 2004?

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. 2003, 2004 timeframe. Yep.

• 10:43Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, and what was sort of like the, the disposition of Fallujah at that time?

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Oh, Fallujah was wild, man. It was, and it was crazy because like, I think the 82nd did a hell of a job, like locking it down. And I remember, uh, you know, back then you would, all your kit went to Kuwait and then you had to drive from Kuwait to Baghdad and then disperse. So we did that. And then on the way back, we didn't leave our kit there. We had to drive our own kit back to Kuwait.

• 11:08Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  And clean it and get through customs, right? And so while we're in Kuwait waiting to pass, waiting for our customs, uh, thing, um, that's when they, uh, hung up the, those contractors and that's when Marines got tuned up in Fallujah. And I thought we were gonna go back and I was pissed, right? Like, cause I was like, I'm ready to go home. Cause I think we were deployed for 10 months.

• 11:28Jack Murphy?

  And as a PSD for the commander, you were just kind of like driving him around as he goes to check on the troops?

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was, it was, uh, they were just now starting to talk about, uh, you know, hearts and minds and, and like, I think the GWOT became a thing, like the actual phrase GWOT. I, these really weren't a thing yet. Um, and, uh, until the end of it, because I remember that, and I hated EOD guys, um, because I didn't know what it was. Um, because like, we would be coming back for chow, and we had been out for three, four days, right? And they're like, um, what's taking so long? And I'm like, oh, EOD's out there. And I'm like, what the hell is EOD? Like, oh, they're taking care of ID. What the hell's an ID? Like, all I knew is EOD made me late for chow, and I hated EOD guys.

• 12:12Jack Murphy?

  Well, it's, I mean, later on, the war was still a pain in the ass when you had to call EOD and wait six hours. You know, not their fault, but it happens. I, so, uh, any, anything, before we move on, anything particular from Fuguja? Any stories that you'd like to tease out, uh, before moving on?

• 12:32Speaker 03

  No, not really. It was, it was, uh, this is my first deployment. I was super chariot with everything.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Turned 21 over there. So that's one of my first, first of many birthdays, right? Couldn't get any alcohol. It was cool. My battalion commander made me a frigging, like, printed card. So that's about the coolest thing that happened to me over there was I got a birthday card from my, my battalion commander on my 21st birthday.

• 12:55Jack Murphy?

  That's pretty cool.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:58Jack Murphy?

  Not as cool as a beer, but still.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  Facts.

• 13:02Jack Murphy?

  So, uh, where does the Ranger Regiment start to come into your head as, as a possibility? As opposed to, uh, breaking into the, uh, Delta compound?

• 13:13Speaker 03

  Oh, so, uh,

• 13:16Speaker 03

  when I get back from that deployment, uh, I get an email from the unit and there, I was an E4 at the time. And they're like, hey, bud, you're soft skill MOS. Um, you probably better off going to Ranger Regiment and, uh, or, uh, becoming a Green Breaker first, get some skills or reclass the infantry. I couldn't reclass because I think my MOS was too short. So I was like, all right, I'll go to, I wasn't going to go to Ranger Regiment. I think Black Hawk Down had just like recently came out. And so I watched that and the only thing I knew about Ranger Regiment was High and Tight, dude. And I was like, yeah, no way. I'm not cutting my hair, right?

• 13:46Speaker 03

  So, uh, this is principle. So I end up, um, Uh, going to selection to become a Green Beret and this was like, this would have been in September of oh four.

• 13:57Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  It, uh, again, I'm a city boy, so I grew up in North New Jersey and then I joined the army from Atlanta. Like I had never been in the woods. By myself or I don't like back then you couldn't even ask me to read a map and I fell to star like, uh, one of my favorite stories about selection is, uh, I walked up on a deer stand and had no freaking clue what it was and it scared the shit out of me and I ran away. So, like until one of the instructors was like, you good? I'm like, yeah, dude, there's a monster out there. He's like, what are you talking about? I was like, yeah, there's a monster by the puppy palace. And he was like, what did it look like? And I explained to him. He's like, it's a deer stand, you idiot. I'm like, why are deer in stands?

• 14:35Speaker 03

  He's like, no, that's what hunters sit to shoot that deer. Like, why? Like, I just, I didn't understand. So I end up, uh, fell in the star and not, not making it. And then, uh, the eighty second, um, back then, and I hope this is not the way anymore. They kept putting me on these jumps and I got hurt. I thrashed my ankle really bad. And I was like, that's it. I'm done with the army. Um, and EOD recruiter hit me up and was like, you should reclass the EOD. And like, again, I was like, but then he said the magic words. He was like, EOD is one of the fastest way to get to soft. And then he probably got my attention and I went to EOD school. Didn't look back.

• 15:09Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome. So I mean,

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:10Jack Murphy?

  Go, go into EOD school. I mean, and this is also, as you point out, the time where IEDs are starting to become a really big thing. Um, what was sort of that environment like and that, you know, you're going to be a part of a group of guys that are like really at the forefront of this, this threat that the troops are facing?

• 15:29Speaker 03

  So yeah, these schools are the hardest school I've ever been to. Uh, every other is like mentally, uh, the, everybody in these schools at least a B student, right? So you either do like a major, um, a major infraction is sixteen points, which is a fail. You need eighty-five to pass. Uh, or two minor infractions or eight points each, which is sixteen points and you fail. So, um, EOD is probably the, it was the fastest, hardest school I've ever been to mentally.

• 15:55Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Oh, you want to tell us a little bit about like the curriculum, just so for the civilians or people who are interested in joining the military? Um, what, what EOD school is really?

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Right, so uh right when I went phase one, um so most services have some type of phase one. Uh the army's phase one used to be at Arsenal in Alabama, um now it's at Fort Lee uh in Virginia or whatever they changed the names to. Uh for phase one, it's all like what they call common core, so you learn about demo, you learn um safeties associated with explosives, bombs, grenades. Um and then you you kind of dabble on some of the things that you will learn in phase two. Um once you're done with phase one, you go down to phase two, that's where all the services meet up together, so you know these schools are actually really cool because it is like um. I was an army guy on an air force base going into a navy school.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  Um so you train that um like there's marines there, you have uh air force marines and navy uh folks in your class. And basically, they just kind of go on order, so you do ground first, um which is uh rockets, projectiles, landmines and grenades. And then you go, that's one whole division in each each subdivision is a certain part, so you learn about. All types of grenades, uh and then from there, when you test, you can get any grenade in the inventory from any country. Um you call your safeties, you do whatever your render safe procedure is, you know how to search the books. Um and then you just continue on, and then the second division is the air division, which is uh guided missiles, uh. Bombs and then um payloads, so like submunitions.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Uh oh, and then injector seats is a huge, another one, um that's a EOD thing too.

• 17:36Jack Murphy?

  Really?

• 17:36Speaker 03

  So uh yeah, cuz they, it's almost like airbags, right? They use um essentially they.

• 17:41Jack Murphy?

  Small charge.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Those things explode, yeah, it's a small charge that throws the pilots out of the frigging aircraft, right? Um uh and then from there, you have the uh. Bio and chem division, so you learn about bio uh biological and chemical weapons, ID has its own division, um and then uh depending on whether you, what service you're in. Um you'll go to the nuclear division, um where you learn about nukes.

• 18:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  And then you graduate, so like literally, it's the, it's the, the. Probably one of the most professional, like hardest, fastest paced courses I've ever been to.

• 18:12Jack Murphy?

  How many weeks?

• 18:16Speaker 03

  It's nine months total.

• 18:18Jack Murphy?

  Okay, okay.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  So, uh, thirty, thirty-six, thirty, forty weeks, something like that.

• 18:23Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, you're covering a lot of ground.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 18:26Jack Murphy?

  And so this is joint service, this Navy, Air Force, Army.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yep, Marine Corps.

• 18:31Jack Murphy?

  Cool, cool. And then I imagine you guys go on to more specialized training, like, like the Navy EOD divers go and do their thing and so on and so forth.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, uh, with the Navy, so they usually have two classes. You have either a Sierra class or surface class. So that's Air Force, Army, Marine Corps, and you have a November class, which is Navy or underwater. You guys go through all your training. So we had a big Navy class, like failed some tests and rolled back. And I think we had like six or seven Navy folks rolled back into our class. They stayed with us all the way up until, um, the ID division. Once we graduated, they graduated with us, but then they went on for another couple of weeks to underwater.

• 19:10Jack Murphy?

  Right, right. And what was the path for you after you graduated from, you know, your basic course?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Oh, so, uh, after I came back to Fort Bragg, so I did my, damn near my entire career at Fort Bragg. Um, so I was in the eighty-second. I did on the job training with the eighteenth, uh, EOD. And then went to EOD school, graduated, came right back to the eighteenth EOD for my first EOD deployment.

• 19:31Jack Murphy?

  Okay. And, and how did the Ranger Regiment kind of come up on your radar as a possibility?

• 19:38Speaker 03

  So with EOD, after my first EOD deployment, which was damn near eighteen months, um, I tried out for the unit because I had the skills wherever and, uh, I felt the, uh, eighteen miler. And so like, two days later, one of my buddies is like, hey, I'm standing up at EOD unit for Ranger Regiment. And this shit, I was like, no, I ain't doing it, dude. And I was like, I'm not, I'm not getting the high and tight. Again, I'm still stuck going frigging black all down. He's like, dude, the regiment's totally changed. Just come frigging to selection and, uh, you'll be a part of something new. And I was like, all right, cool. So I didn't make it to, uh, past unit selection. Um, two days later, I went to the selection for the twenty-eight, was the first guy selected and then ran selection three days later for the next group of guys to come through.

• 20:20Jack Murphy?

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• 24:51Jack Murphy?

  And so before you went and did that, you said you deployed for 18 months?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, they forgot us.

• 24:58Jack Murphy?

  Where was this?

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Uh, this is MND North, so.

• 25:03Jack Murphy?

  Oh my God.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  I can go into that super quick, right? So one of the other reasons I joined EOD is because they were all supposed to do six month deployments. We get there on ground and then uh we get there, as soon as we get there, they extend us to a year. And I'm like, alright, you know what? I've done this before. We get R and R, so I plan my R and R at the six month mark. As soon as I get home with R and R, my team member calls me and goes, hey, we got extended again. We got sent to fifteen months. At the fifteen month mark, there was nobody to come and replace us. So we end up staying over there for eighteen months.

• 25:34Jack Murphy?

  That's insane.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  I left, my sister was pregnant when I got back, her son was talking.

• 25:41Jack Murphy?

  And were you guys busy up there that whole time?

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Oh, big time, because that's when they did the whole uh surge on Baghdad. We're up north in uh Mosul. And so all the bad guys just ran up north and we had like, we had one EOD company covering the entire M and D north.

• 25:55Jack Murphy?

  That's totally insane.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  It was like nine EOD teams.

• 25:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And so you were out there every day, every night, basically?

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Oh, big time, yeah, we had a, we tried to have a schedule, but it was a yeah, it was tiresome. I'm, I'm surprised like none of us got killed over there, dude, because like by month nine, we didn't care anymore. I gotta tell you, I can honestly tell you, like, we were like thirty, forty feet from IEDs cracking them off like, please kill me. Nobody cared at that point, dude.

• 26:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, the nerve endings are frayed.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:25Jack Murphy?

  Uh, it, I mean, this is a tremendous amount of like real world experience you're gaining. I guess that's the only silver lining we can put on an eighteen month deployment. Uh, what are you, what are you learning about IEDs and about your job at this time?

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Uh, so IEDs came in all shapes and sizes. When we first got there, they were telling us about pipe bombs, right? And the only pipe bombs I knew at the time is probably the one you think of, right? A little small, like plumber pipe bombs and like, nah, dude, these things were, you know,

• 26:55Speaker 03

  freaking thirty inches long. Um, this is when they start making the uh, the um, metal like uh

• 27:01Jack Murphy?

  The EFPs?

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they had EFPs, right? Those, those, those came out, that's like, it was crazy because like I saw the whole like uh trend, like transition of command wire IED to command depth, us getting ECM and then rhinos and all that stuff. And then going right back to the original stuff. It was, it was interesting, dude.

• 27:20Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, there's like this sort of game that gets played. Um, a, a lot, some of it is like in the electronic warfare spectrum also. Where like we do something and then they adapt and then we have to adapt to what they're doing and it goes back and forth.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 27:36Jack Murphy?

  I.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  So it was, uh, yeah, it was, it was interesting, man. It was, it wasn't that because of my fire. Like I said, I went over there. I got out of EOD school as a E5 and by the time I came back, I was a, a, a senior team leader, um, in EOD.

• 27:50Jack Murphy?

  Which a T, an EOD team is what, four guys?

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Three guys.

• 27:54Jack Murphy?

  Three guys, okay.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you have an E6 as a team leader, uh, E5 is your senior team member and usually an E4 is your team, uh, our junior team member.

• 28:02Jack Murphy?

  Okay, okay. So now let's, let's jump back, uh, forward a little bit here, uh, um, to this EOD unit that you're standing up to support the Ranger Regiment. Um, was that specifically for the Ranger Regiment? Or was it more of like special ops used to SOC wide?

• 28:19Speaker 03

  So it's specifically for the Ranger Regiment. So up until that point, the regiment having support from, um, the Navy, um, because those guys are already airborne qualified. They're like in great shape, right? At the time, there wasn't a bunch of EOD guys in the army that were all like great shape, um, minus the unit. And then, uh, there was a Fort, uh, a unit in Fort Jackson that kind of picked up that mission, but they wanted something more solidified. So they stood up to 28.

• 28:42Jack Murphy?

  Okay. Uh, and so you're standing, what was the process of standing up that unit down at Bragg? That's always a lot of fun doing, building a unit from scratch.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Uh, to be honest, man, I have to give all the credit to the first sergeant. Uh, that guy was a, was pretty cool. And then, uh, my buddy, um, old Scotty Wymer, um, he, he was up at the J Moss every day fighting for us, right? For us, we end up standing like we, like I said, I went through selection, I passed and it was me and like three other guys. And they're like, all right, cool. What the hell was wrong with your selection? What did you change about it? We revamped selection and like literally ran the next one like three, four days later. And then we did that for like a couple of months and, uh, but not even a couple of months, more like a couple of weeks. Um, because I would say I did my first 28th deployment two months after I got selection or after I got selected.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  So I standing up was, it was just getting bodies in there.

• 29:38Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, dude. I mean, it sounds like your feet barely touched the ground. I mean, you went and did unit selection. Well, you did, you went and did SFAS and then unit selection and then went right into this EOD selection.

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Don't quit.

• 29:53Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no kidding, man. Um.

• 29:58Jack Murphy?

  And so how long is it before the unit is operational?

• 30:05Speaker 03

  We were operational immediately, two months.

• 30:07Jack Murphy?

  No shit.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Like literally, yeah, so it was, uh, I went to, uh, because I had got promoted to staff sergeant. Um, but I hadn't gone to, I don't know what they call it now, it was P O D C back in the day, I think when I went through was W O C. I had to go through W O C as a, excuse me, as a staff sergeant. And I deployed, I didn't even go to my own graduation, so I ended up deploying.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  So yeah, I did the eighteen month deployment, came back home, went to selection, stood up that unit. Uh, and it's funny, I didn't get any training either, uh, cause we didn't have any, we didn't know what the training was. Uh, it was funny, uh, the first sergeant was like, hey, I got a surprise for you boys, like you about to go out the door. And he's like, I'm gonna take you to some unit members, right? He's like, they're gonna train you up with some stuff like, and so their defense, now I know what I know, right? They literally like opened up their bag and was like, hey bud, this is stuff I carry, don't get yourself dead. And I was like, okay, and I deployed two days later.

• 31:00Jack Murphy?

  Holy shit.

• 31:05Jack Murphy?

  Uh, so, uh, which battalion did you deploy with first?

• 31:10Speaker 03

  First vet.

• 31:11Jack Murphy?

  Okay, cool. And, uh, well, and you know, I should mention, you got to deploy with all three battalions. So.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 31:18Jack Murphy?

  You got to see the different cultures and different personalities between the battalions.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting, man, like, uh, and in the, uh, I, I went into, uh, all those deployments with different stereotypes, but like all the companies that I had to play with, the strike forces that I deployed, and like totally broke all those, like some really good dudes in there, man.

• 31:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I, I think the, the platoons and the companies are like very consistent and consistently.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:43Jack Murphy?

  High standards, it's, it's just the personalities maybe are a little different.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So well, tell us about the first, the first pump with Ranger Battalion.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  So I had no freaking clue, man. Like I said, all my training was conventional EOD training. And then I go from having the truck with a robot and a bunch of other stuff to having to carry everything on my back. So like the first couple of hops out, we're in Salerno up in the mountains, man. And the first couple of hops out was, or actually the first couple of deployment, the first deployment was in still in Iraq. We're in Baghdad. So a little bit easier because we're doing everything with strikers. But um, like I was carrying certain stuff, but like right away I was like, yeah, I can't do this for anything offset. Um, first time I had been on a bunch of like, you know, helicopters, I didn't know what helicopter infill with, you know, half or any of that stuff. You got to be did um, infills on boats and everything like, so I was like, we had no training whatsoever.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  It was just like the guys that we we would rip out, one of the guys and they're like, hey, this is what we do. This is what we carrying like, good luck, dude. Don't get yourself dead.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Now that was kind of like our motto for like probably the first two or three deployments in 20.

• 32:49Jack Murphy?

  And I mean, I'll say this sounds like it was also like during some of the hottest years of the war, frankly.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Yep. Yep.

• 32:57Jack Murphy?

  What was it like rolling out on strikers every day with first bat?

• 33:02Speaker 03

  One, like, like, I knew how to shoot just from the army stuff. So like getting in the firefighting Baghdad, like not knowing what CQB is really like, again, I'm, I was a soft skill guy, right? And then you guys don't get that type of training. Um, so it was interesting. But like I said, like, my regiment was really good about it, man. Like, um, one of these I loved about regiment was, uh, like right away as they're doing their rip, um, deploying, they're like rebluing like their privates and stuff and like they had no issues with any of us, no matter where our rank was jumping on. We needed that like beginner level training, if you will. Um, so they set us up for success from a tactical standpoint. Like it was, it was really good.

• 33:39Jack Murphy?

  And you fit in.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  Eye opener, like.

• 33:41Jack Murphy?

  You fit in with your high and tight?

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Oh, I was like, again, I forgot who the sergeant major was, but he came from the unit. So regiment had multi cam, they changed their hairstyle and all this stuff, stuff like, so I was good, man.

• 33:53Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. It was, uh, it was, it was Sergeant Major Birch. That, that happened while I was there.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah. Yeah, dude. So I rocked the mohawk down there the whole time, dude.

• 34:05Jack Murphy?

  I am surprised they let you get away with that.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, because we didn't belong to anybody. That's what I said. This is the best secret. 20th didn't belong to anybody. They're just like, these are cool EOD guys. We had, uh, we have better, uh, attitudes in the Navy and we're Army guys. So the regiment loved us, dude.

• 34:20Jack Murphy?

  Right, right. Yeah, it's, it's sort of like you're a child that had their parents abandon them at the county fair. Um, and you're just hoping that like a platoon sergeant takes you in. It's like, oh, it's okay. You're one of my boys.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. You guys are freaking weird, but like, we like you.

• 34:38Jack Murphy?

  And how is being an EOD guy supporting Ranger Bat different than what you had done previously? If there was a difference?

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Uh, there was a different level of respect in, uh, in, uh, regiment, man. Um, yeah, I think when I first, my first deployment with first bat, I was a staff sergeant. So I was treated on equal grounding with all their squad leaders. And so like that felt really, really different. So if I was like, hey, we can't go here. They're like, bro, you're the guy. Like we're, we're not going there. So it was really good. Or, um, once I actually started like shooting with them more and doing CQB, I was like number two, like I would check the breach for booby traps and be like number two man in the door. It was fucking amazing.

• 35:20Jack Murphy?

  Uh, any stories about finding those kinds of booby traps, having to disarm them?

• 35:27Speaker 03

  No, not, not at that time. Not like, uh, as, uh, we were wrapping up Iraq. No, uh, once we started getting to Afghanistan, it started getting a little more sketch.

• 35:35Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. You want, want to talk about that?

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So, um, we get back, we start, we figure out like after that first deployment, that was like the first true 20th deployment. Now we got guys going back, but our job was, so I did that deployment with first bat and then I stayed behind for, with second bat. Um, because again, we just have guys. But once I got back, uh, when third bat was over, um, it was my job to now figure out, take my two deployments and revamp all our training to get us ready for Afghanistan. Because initially they were, they weren't going to send us to Afghanistan because they're like, hey, 20 who stood up to support Baghdad, blah, blah, regiment didn't know what they were doing. Um, but I was like, nah, dude, like we're about to go to the mountains. So we started training in Utah.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Uh, places in Arizona and started getting our skills together for, for mountain warfare. And then, um, looking at what the Taliban was doing different than what they were doing in Iraq. Um, which for, at the time, uh, the Taliban, it was more, it was interesting. It was more conventional ordinance that was being used in unconventional ways. So they had IEDs, but like going to like Solerno up in the mountains was more so running into landmines and, and like ginormous caches, right? Like, and like, first time I learned how to call for fire, cause I just didn't have enough fricking, you know, uh, demo on my back. Um, so like, I'm working real close with the JSAC now, um, running with the dog guys and, and, and learning certain things. Like, we had a bunch of, we took our first casualties in the 20th in Afghanistan.

• 37:03Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  So, uh, per example, um, Congressman Brian Mast out of Florida, he was one of my soldiers in the 20th. That's how he lost both his legs, uh, in Afghanistan, climbing on a rooftop. They started booby trapping the roofs.

• 37:15Jack Murphy?

  Holy shit. And so this is kind of like, you're having to contend with these booby traps as the Rangers are assaulting a target.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was, it was, uh,

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Fast and Furious U, so you're fighting Taliban, you're fighting Hakani Network, um, they're taking lessons learned from Yemen, fricking Iraq, and then they're applying that to the mountains and, uh, then you got all of the fricking tribal stuff going on. So it was, uh, it was interesting, dude. Like, it was, it was definitely still trial by fire and, and as an EOG guy now, like, again, my last deployment with, with regiment, I was now, uh, sergeant first class. So I'm being looked to as a, you know, daily platoon sergeant, right? Not a tactical platoon sergeant, but like, I'm going in with the squad leaders. And so it has been like, I've dropped the L-bomb a thousand, thousand or so times where it's like, I look around, I'm like, ain't nobody here. And I see something in the corners, like, get the fuck out of here, dude. And that house blows up, you know, soon as we jump out.

• 38:10Jack Murphy?

  Uh, yeah, I mean, any stories like that where you did have to defuse something or blow something in place?

• 38:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, so uh, that happened all the time. Uh, but I will say, um,

• 38:24Speaker 03

  uh, my last deployment or the, cause I've been blown up like forty plus times, right? But this is like the last time I got like really, really rocked. Uh, we were looking at target X where I can't remember who we're going after. But this guy just magically pops, right? Um, and I'm like, this dude is way more savvy. Like, there's no way they're there. So we're, you know, we're looking at him and we see this meeting of people and then, um, they're like, we're going after him. I'm like, hey, I tell the, uh, battalion commander at the time and the fir-, uh, first sergeant, battalion commander, battalion, uh, sergeant major. Hey, we're getting baited. And they're like, what? I'm like, hey, man, I've been tracking this guy for, like, we've been, I've been, I've been personally following this dude. Cause he's a ID maker for like four years now. And like, this dude is not this stupid, right? I said, we're getting baited, like something bad's gonna happen. So we, uh, we go there.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  It's a dry hole, nobody's there. And, uh, they're like, um, the job calls back and it's like, oh yeah, why you guys are in the air. Um, on Enfield, they left like five, 10 minutes ago. They walked west or something. And I'm like, alright, cool. So, uh, the platoon sergeant's like, alright, hey, I'm gonna take a squad over there. We're gonna go secure this, this house. We'll wait for you guys to finish SSC, um, before we hit it. No problem. And I'm like, hey, let me go with you because there's only one path that gets to that other house. And sure enough, we go there, uh, fucking kid didn't even go to Ranger, we had McGuire. Um, he goes, it's McGuire, platoon sergeant, squad leader, myself. I'm, I'm four behind, uh, him. And McGuire comes out the, the compound, makes a left, starts heading west.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  And then explosion, right? So I get knocked down, pinned to the wall, like I feel my face burning. Cause I got all this dirt and stuff or whatever. I hear McGuire screaming, medic comes up, they call a medic. I crawl over to McGuire and then luckily for him, I say luckily, he lost his leg, but, um, it was those, uh, YPOC, you know, those yellow containers? Those things hold about forty pounds of explosive, only half of it went off. So he only got hit with twenty pounds, but still knocked the rest of the squad down, so include me down. So then I like, look at that, I freaking cut the rest of the deck cord, um, I call up, uh, they start calling up for a medevac. And so now I'm like, Days of shit. My, my ankle's hurting because like I said, I got pins to the wall. My face is hurting because I got freaking dirt and gravel all on my face.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  And, uh, I'll tell the dog guy, I'm like, hey, we gotta get this guy to Exfil. I don't have time to pull out a metal detector. I'm just gonna run. Like have your dog run behind me like he's chasing me. If I get blown up, you know the deal. So we would train our guys that if one of the EOD guys would get blown up, have your dog bite us and pull us back with the dogs. So nobody else comes up there. So I run and clear, clear up to the HLZ. And then, um, we're zigzagging. I'm like, hey, just make sure the guys as they're pulling out McGuire, um, for Exfil, um, make sure they follow my path and I clear the path. There's no more. I didn't step on anything. Nobody else stepped on anything, but we did really get McGuire out of there. But that was like my last regiment. That was my last mission.

• 41:12Jack Murphy?

  Did, uh, do you think McGuire stepped on a pressure plate? Is that what they were doing at the time?

• 41:16Speaker 03

  Oh, all day long. Yeah, it was a pressure plate.

• 41:19Jack Murphy?

  Uh, any word on the IED maker? Did you guys roll him up?

• 41:24Speaker 03

  Hell no. I don't, he might still be alive to this day. Like he, it was just, it was a, I won't say his name, but I know when we went to go see McGuire, the battalion commander at the time, um, came in there and was like, oh, you know, Ranger blah, blah. He was like, man, you know, McGuire pretty was like, he said, we shouldn't go there, man. Fuck you, dude. Like, cause like I said, the kid, the kid couldn't even make it to Ranger School now. Like his whole career was done.

• 41:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's unfortunate.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I fought with them. I fought, I fought with that BC for about a good,

• 41:55Speaker 03

  a good 45 minutes. I was like, bro, we should not go on this one. Like we are being baited and he's just like lost force.

• 42:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Uh, were you there? Uh, it was maybe around that timeframe. I can't remember which it may, may have been first battalion, hit a target and there are daisy chained IEDs around it and they ended up having like a big mass cow event.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  That was, uh, second bat. Yeah, that was my buddy Tedesco. And, uh, that's again, that's when we started right after that. That's when we started taking a bunch of casualties.

• 42:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  The 28th is, I mean, obviously regiment took a bunch of casualties, but that was our first like EOD casualties.

• 42:27Jack Murphy?

  Fuck, man. Uh, oh, you want to tell us the story about your helicopter getting shot down?

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. So, uh, me in true fashion, like not knowing things, right? So, uh, this is, uh,

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Third Battalion, I'm in Kandahar, um, and I'm with, uh, BCO, so second team, so two Bravo. Um, now two Bravo has some, a bunch of legends in it, right? One of them being, uh, at the time, BCO's first sergeant was first sergeant in Fitz, right? Like Black Hawk Down legend, right? But probably one of the best first sergeants ever worked, right? And a bunch of other really, really good dudes. Um, so I forgot where we're going, but our helicopter gets shot down. And I remember like hurting my wrist and we basically, and you know the 160th man, they're freaking awesome, right? But they slammed this freaking thing down, um, and the, the, the back, the back gate is like essentially like kind of closed up. So everybody's kind of low crawling out of the fucking thing, uh, out of the back of the, uh, Chinook. And that's where we're low crawling out, like we're getting shot from the woods from the east.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  We're facing, we're facing, uh, we're facing north, we're getting shot from the east and we're getting shot from the village from the west, right? And so I'm like, everybody's hurt. We, we like they cough a fire, A10s come in with their beautiful freaking rock sound like, and I'm happy, right? So like, then we go and secure a bunch of places. They're like, hey, we're stuck here, right? Cause it's daytime, sun had already came up, um, and nobody's coming to get us in the daytime, right? I just saw it like, I think, uh, at the time regiment wasn't allowed to fly in the daytime, um, with 160. And so no big deal, right? Yeah. Uh, so, uh, we're doing our normal thing where, you know, guys are trying to get some rest. We're getting into a little ticks here and there and there was nothing too crazy, right? Nobody really got like hurt, hurt other than like from the crash.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Uh, so one of the guys on the, um, squad I was with, so, uh, my, I was always hanging out with, um, one of the squads and, uh, Josh Renee was a squad leader, I said, he plays soccer for, um, the US, uh, Paralympic team. Um, and there's a kid on the team named, uh, on his squad named Gordo. And I thought Gordo was like a nickname that means fat in Spanish, right? But he's a skinny kid and I just thought that that's what they're, they call him fat because he's skinny, right? Like just unbeknownst to me, so the whole deployment, I've been talking shit to Gordo, right? Like he's a little bit older and I realized that and like, I was like, hey, why are you here? He's like, I was a firefighter, I got DUI, my mom made some phone calls. And I, I still nothing registered in my head that like, how the hell is this kid getting DUI and his mom makes a phone call and he's a regiment, right?

• 44:56Speaker 03

  But whatever, he didn't have his ranger type yet. So I'm like, ah, he's lucky, right? So we're eating, uh, we're sharing a first strike M R E and, uh, I asked Gordo, I had, I had already made it to selection to the E O D troop in the unit. And so I was like, hey, man, what you doing after this? Like, you know, at the Ranger School, you're gonna go to the unit? And he was like, you know, basically got real quiet and kind of weird. And was like, no, I want to do something different from my dad. Still never registers, right? And so then Josh goes, you know who his dad is? I'm like, I don't give a fuck who his father is. Just being, I just being an a-hole, right? Like not being mean, but just joking. And he's like, dude, that's Gary Gordon. And I'm like, and then it finally clicks. And I look at his face. I'm like, holy shit, man. Why did you tell me? He's like, people treat you different. I'm like, I didn't treat you different. I don't give a shit who your dad is. Like, you're still Gordo to me, right?

• 45:39Speaker 03

  But we've been best friends ever since, man. Like, that's one of my, like, good friends. He, uh, he ended up becoming the platoon sergeant for Recky, um, and was like, still doing good to this day.

• 45:48Jack Murphy?

  That's awesome, man.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude. But yeah, that's me putting my foot in my mouth as always, like not knowing who's people like. Again, the way I grew up, like, I don't, I don't think about like legacy like that because I didn't have anybody who was like some fucking medal, you know, or medal of honor recipients like in my family, right?

• 46:07Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah. You never know who you're gonna run into. Um, so I, I know we're going a little bit out of chronological order. Um, but tell us about like how the unit comes up in your mind as like, this is the next step for me, uh, in going to selection.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  So the unit was always my final step. So it took me three times to get to the unit, right? So, uh, I said, the first time was when I was in the eighty second, I got a, a email and was like, go do something cooler. Right? Like, get, get, get some, uh, get some grit about you or whatever, right? And that was like number one. Second time was, um, right after my first E O D deployment. I didn't make the, the, the eighteen miler. Um, so I was like, okay, work out harder, right? And then the third time I actually made it. So, um, As I uh, that deployment was really cool because I was aligned with uh, the, the squadron and troop that I would go to support after OTC.

• 47:00Jack Murphy?

  Oh, cool.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  So I had a, I had a unit EOD guy there that was showing me the ropes and stuff um, during that deployment to Kandahar. It was really good, man.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  So it was like, it was like, uh, it was almost like on the job training with your big brother.

• 47:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, what was the uh, selection course like for uh, EOD dude? Was that tough?

• 47:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so it was, it was, it was interesting. Like um, you would do the PT test and you would do the 18 miler on like Long Street. Uh, they would do this crazy, you know, they would do the psyche valve and then the EOD guys would tell you like, hey, we're gonna come pick you up at this time where you live. And I'm like, I live here. They're like, when are you picking me up? They're like, don't worry about it. We'll just, just be ready. And so um, where was I at? I was living in an apartment uh, off of Raleigh Road um, out here in Fayetteville. And uh, I think they came to my house like 2 o'clock in the morning, dude, in a van and like, headed me and everything and like snatched me up. My girlfriend's like, what the hell's going on? I'm like, it's okay. They're supposed to do this? I think, I think these are the right guys, right? Like, and they uh, whisk you off to the compound and then um, they basically uh,

• 48:05Speaker 03

  run you for like 72 hours straight. Um, and you do all these EOD tasks. Um, they do more land nav, which this time like I'm good at land nav, right? Like I didn't fail that. But um, and then it's, it's really, they just, it's really hard for them to test like pure EOD skills. They're really trying to see how you think without all these tools. So they give you a set of tools that really make no freaking sense, like rope and like a Gerber. And they're like, alright, make it happen, dude. And so like you, um, they also uh, they uh, do a really, really cool uh, scenario and I won't like give it away too much, but basically they throw everything that possibly could happen in the, in like a real like unit mission. And you'd be surprised, man. Some guys get blue screened to death when all those like, when stuff starts going off and like uh,

• 48:49Speaker 03

  you got a hostage to do stuff on, you got a bunch of IEDs in there. So it's uh, it's really interesting. It was like one of my favorite scenarios to run because like some guys just shut down. And those guys just get selected. Yeah, like completely overwhelmed.

• 49:03Jack Murphy?

  Is it one of those, I, I imagine like a very dangerous and technical job like this. You, you just gotta take it like one task at a time, I, I would think.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  It's completely opposite. You gotta take everything in.

• 49:13Jack Murphy?

  Really?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  So like for the unit, the EOD guy is usually like the eyes and ears for the troop sergeant major, man. Depending on like what squadron it is, so like it's really cool because you have to worry about your job, right? But when your job is not happening, which you hope your job is not like you, your goal is to be the laziest EOD guy on the planet, right? You are also like the eyes and ears for the troop sergeant major. So, because you're usually with the troop sergeant major, um, as he's directing traffic for all the assaults. So like he might be talking to the commander or direct, you know, uh, working at JTAC. And a team might call in, so you have to actually take it all in when you're not working to, to help be his like, you know, secondhand, if you will.

• 49:51Jack Murphy?

  Right, right. Uh, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So it's, it's sort of like you were with the platoon sergeant before in Ranger Regiment. Now you're with the troop sergeant major.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 50:05Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and so you get to the unit. Is there any like additional schools or training you have to go to after selection?

• 50:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, uh, you go through as a EOD guy, you go through what's called the in extremis course and they teach you how they take you from being a, a conventional army EOD guy and they turn you into a, you know, a Delta EOD guy. Um, basically the whole premise is, uh, you get taught, uh, how to think, not what to think. And so we teach you, you know, our way of doing demo, our way of cutting time fuse, our way of solving stuff. And then because of the unit's mission, it is now not just defeat IDs. Everything's about that hostage. Like, so you learn psychology, you learn just, just how to deal with the hostage, how to like, what not to talk about, right? Don't tell a hostage that they're gonna die. Don't even talk about their family. Like just really cool stuff, right? Like,

• 50:52Speaker 03

  um, but, but it's funny because a lot of guys like who don't know that. So you go through all these different courses on like, um, hostage behavior, um, and you're doing all this before you even go to OTC. Um, once you're done with that, that's usually anywhere from nine to 12 weeks long. Um, some guys aren't airborne qualified. So in between OTC and that, you have to go to airborne school. Um, and then, uh, you go to OTC, which is, is no, no different than anybody else.

• 51:17Jack Murphy?

  Oh, really? So they put the EOD guys through OTC like the assaulters?

• 51:22Speaker 03

  Yep. So there's a.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Like I said, if you look at the history of the unit, you have the, what I call the top three MOSs. You have EOD, medics and commo guys. Those guys are all direct support. And, and then you can kind of throw dog guys in there now too, but like if you look at the history of the organization, even with the, the, the beach, right? Um, the, the EOD guys, the medics and the commo guys all go through as a team. So that's your, that's your, uh, your, your CQB team.

• 51:52Jack Murphy?

  Oh, okay. I got you. Um, so what was OTC like for you?

• 51:58Speaker 03

  It was a marathon at a sprint pace.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  Seriously, man, like, and they will, like, to me, OTC is the real selection, dude, because they will literally, um,

• 52:11Speaker 03

  they will literally find what you're afraid of. Like anything you're afraid of, like OTC is going to pull it out. Like I'm afraid, I was afraid of heights, right? But like, it's crazy because you find yourself, I was in OTC, walking across the top of church steeples, right? Uh, rappelling off of buildings, like stuff that like, that made no freaking sense. Running up the side of a wall and all you're holding on is the freaking, you know, paracord or, uh, tubular nylon. You know what I mean? Like, so anything you're afraid of, OTC will find it and they will pull it out. And then they will freaking hit on that. So either you quit or like you refuse to do anything, right? Um, or you man up. So, um, yeah, OTC was the, you know, these was the most like challenging thing I've done mentally. OTC was the most physical thing I've ever done mentally.

• 52:53Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 52:54Speaker 03

  Or most physical thing, uh, most challenging thing I've ever done physically.

• 52:58Jack Murphy?

  I, did it, was it also, you know, kind of the thing you had been looking for in the army? Uh, that, you know, now you're shooting and clearing rooms and doing so much cool shit.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And it's crazy because like, I was never one of those guys where like things came easy, right? So, but like, um, I was always a guy that could train for something and then once I mastered it, it became easy. I don't feel like I ever mastered anything in OTC. It was like, I think one of my, uh, instructors said it the best, like, OTC, you're a lion being traced by faster hunter lines.

• 53:28Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 53:30Jack Murphy?

  It's like the basic.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  It was what I was looking for. It was, it was great, man.

• 53:33Jack Murphy?

  The basic training to be.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  I wouldn't want to do it again.

• 53:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wouldn't want to do it again.

• 53:38Jack Murphy?

  It, it, around this time, did you also have to go through the accelerated free fall course?

• 53:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, so uh you go through OTC uh they run that twice a year and so we graduate OTC around uh May timeframe. You get like a week or so off if you will, if you can even consider that and then you go to uh the freefall course. So that's a a week of ground week. So and that starts usually in June. You graduate right before uh for summer class. You graduate right before 4th July. So you do a week here in uh Fort Bragg uh on ground and then in the wind tunnel. And then you go out to Arizona. Um and then it's, I think now they're up to like in three weeks. Those do like when I went through, we did something like 50 jumps in three weeks. Um to include like the final hey ho over to Grand Canyon, which is the most beautiful thing ever like fucking four o'clock in the morning is great like.

• 54:29Jack Murphy?

  That's amazing.

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Um but uh now I think these cats are doing up to like uh they're getting their class C license and they're up to like 80, 90 jumps in that three weeks.

• 54:38Jack Murphy?

  That's crazy. I didn't even know that was possible.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, so one of the things that we said was like, if you really want us to train jumping, he already tested us on packing our own shoots. So we had to pack our own shoots the whole time.

• 54:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  They got they hired packers now. So like, everybody gets like three shoots now. And so it's literally you jump, you get hit the ground, you go right back up, dude. You know how to pack your own, I think you pack your last shoot or something like that.

• 54:59Jack Murphy?

  It it's good, though. I can see the why they want you guys doing that, though, to get that proficient under the canopy and getting down to the drop zones and everything.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 55:09Jack Murphy?

  Is this one, it's one thing to be like, kind of like, I would consider myself like a basic freefall guy, which is, you know, okay, you know, you you do it. But what, you know, what on the JSOC side, what they were doing and with the, uh, I think they called it the advanced tactical infiltration course. Like, it was all just, it was totally different.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So uh that was another cool thing was uh being able to take typical stuff and not necessarily break the rules. But like, obviously, you know, you have like the tandem course, right? Well, what if you didn't need to jump a bundle or what if you need to jump a person, but you need to jump something a little bit like heavier than, you know, a rucksack, right? Or whatever you're using. And so we had a whole course that was just for, it was almost like the tandem course, but it was just for like 150, 1200 pounds. So you couldn't jump a person, you couldn't jump a bundle, but you can jump some extra kit and that that was really, really cool to do.

• 56:05Jack Murphy?

  You might be the first person in history to say that was really cool to do. I don't, I remember.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  I hate jumping, don't get me wrong, but what I was saying is that the fact that somebody came up with that in between.

• 56:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it.

• 56:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:17Jack Murphy?

  I, I remember going to, uh, they, they gave us the pitchment to go to the regimental reconnaissance detachment at one point and they really, at that time, I think they botched the pitch to us because you got a bunch of Ranger Regiment E4s in the room and they're like, if you come to RRD, you can jump with this 600 pound bundle. And we're all looking at it like, oh, hell no.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 56:43Jack Murphy?

  Did, did you ever have to jump that thing?

• 56:46Speaker 03

  Not the bundle. Like I said, I went through the, uh, the whatever the hell they call the course. Yeah. I, I hated jumping dude. Like I'm the most like, I'm great in the tunnel, but like I'm not doing tricks. I don't want to do backflips off of the ramp. I don't do none of that shit. Like let me out, let me get, it's too much, too many people doing stuff up there. I just want to get out, hit the ground and go shoot or do EOD work. I wasn't, was never a big fan of jumping dude.

• 57:09Jack Murphy?

  So tell us to, uh, about, you know, getting to the unit now and you're getting attached to a, a troop, I would imagine.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  So you, you belong to that troop, right? So like, that was another misconception. Like, that was another, uh, thing that misconception I had is that like the EOD troop at the unit was like a, a attachment thing. It wasn't like, again, like you are, yeah, you, you are, like I was part of A Squadron, right? So I was A Squadron. Um, uh, but that was really cool. Like you, you, you are a part of the squadron. Um, and then you're, you're with your troop and it's a little bit, little different than regiment because usually what happens is, and it's really cool because like, it's almost like every couple of months, one of the teams will like take you under their wing. And so like you, you belong to your troop sergeant major, right? And you're a part of his like fire team, if you will, but one

• 57:59Speaker 03

  of the assault teams will take you under their wing and you get to train with them and do stuff with them. Um, the only issue from an EOD standpoint was, uh, we were on duty twice. So we were on duty for the unit's mission to do, you know, rescuing people, but then we had our own mission when it came to like things that go boom.

• 58:19Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Right? And produce mushroom clouds. So like that, that was another, again, for, from an EOD guy perspective, uh, we still got two moms, right? Like our two dads or however you want to put it, right? So, um.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  You guys get the shit worked out of them like no matter where you're at. So.

• 58:36Jack Murphy?

  So I guess you guys had to like work or or um help with the FBI. I think they call it the render safe team.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, they changed their name like every two years, dude. Uh it was render safe unit RSU. I think that's the current name or but at one point it was had it was HDRU. So I don't know. I don't know what their name is now. But um that changed in the I think early 2000s. Um but that only applies to

• 59:08Speaker 03

  the NCR. So you still have, you know, guys on the hook for the rest of the world.

• 59:14Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  The rest of the US, right? So. And I don't want to get in trouble for saying this, but you probably want either either the the the the boys at the at Fort Bragg or the boys at Virginia Beach to to go. If some shit pops up.

• 59:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  I personally want that to happen.

• 59:32Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I mean, if somebody puts something like that in this country, I mean, there would probably be a security element around it, too.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:41Jack Murphy?

  Um, but thank God we've never had to deal with that. Um, okay, so uh what's a first deployment with uh with the squadron?

• 59:52Speaker 03

  Uh, so my team leader, uh, they were trying to do something different. They wanted me to get on my WMD training. So I I leave uh give her the OTC or get out of OTC, get out of free ball school. And they're like, hey, you're gonna go to Maryland. You're gonna go to like, I started traveling all over. You're gonna go to New Mexico. You're gonna get all this, you know, WMD training. I'm like, all right, cool. My squadron deploys and they're like, hey, don't worry. You're gonna go back with your uh put all your kit on the frigging um on the bird and uh you'll meet your squadron in like a month and a half. But you'll only be you'll miss a month of the deployment. I'm like, all right, cool. As long as everybody else is good with it, no problem. Again, this is me as a conventional guy who also came from regiment. Like you never put your gun anywhere. You don't have eyes on. So what ends up happening is uh uh I uh.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  I sent all my kit. I didn't send my guns though. My guns stay in the frigging team room, right? Like, because I'm not sending my guns anywhere, like, but nobody explains to me, like, the unit's different, right? You can send your guns over there. It's gonna go straight from, you know, Fort Bragg, straight to where it is. Somebody's gonna pick your guns up there. Like, nobody explained it to me. Like, again, because the unit is just kind of a, it's grown man business as well. You just gotta figure it out, right? So, some stuff pops off. The guy who was, who went in my place was an order guy and, uh, he's like, um, I'm, I'm in Baltimore at the time doing WMD training and my troop sergeant major calls me and he's like, hey, get home right now. And I'm like, holy shit, like, somebody got killed, right? He calls me back five minutes later. He's like,

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  I realized what I just did to you. Nobody's dead. Get home right now. So I'm like, okay, nobody, the boy's dead. Damn it. My, like, at the time, my, uh, girlfriend was pregnant. I'm like, shit, the girl, my girlfriend lost the baby. He goes, he calls me back two minutes later. He goes, the baby's okay. Just get your ass home now. And I'm like, fuck, somebody from my family died, right? Nobody's dead. I'm sorry I keep doing this to you. Just come, get on the first flight. So I, you know, go to the airport, fucking swipe my credit card and I, I'm in, uh, Fort Bragg a couple hours later. Um, some other stuff went down in a different country. The guy who was in our, uh, Afghanistan, well, my troop had to leave, so I had to go and, um, deploy my troop. I don't have a gun though. So I call my team leader and I'm like,

• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  how do I get my gun over there? He's like, what are you talking about? Cause I had to fly commercial to, uh, Afghanistan, which is fucking weird.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  So he was like, what do you mean, how do you get your gun over here? I was like, my gun's in the team room. How do I deploy? And he's like, that's where you put all your shit in the, in the kit. And I'm like, yeah, but not my gun. Who does that? He's like, we, we do, right? I'm like, so I get in trouble for that. So he's like, give it to so and so. It'll be, it'll be there two weeks later. He's like, don't worry. Use Jason's gun. So Jason's the guy I replaced and, uh, I'm, I get, finally gets Afghanistan. I'm like, hey dude, um, how's things been going? He's like, oh, it's quiet, man. You know, I've just done, he dusted his gun off. He hasn't deployed in a couple of years. Like, he's an older guy, right? And he's like, uh, you probably don't see any action. And sure enough, Jason leaves the next day and this is a, I was on the infamous VI, right? So this is the first time, like, in regiment, I've heard about vehicle introductions, right?

• 1:02:50Speaker 03

  But I had never done one, right? Cause it's, it's for the unit, right? So now I'm like, oh shit, like, we're doing VI. And sure enough, frigging, the next day, Jason's on the bird, like, we get, we get the call and I like, Do so much damage with this guy's gun. I felt, I felt, I felt dirty about it. And so I sent him an email right away on Messenger and I'm like, guess what, dude? I was like, you know, I figured I molested your gun, man. He's like, what? He's like, what you guys? He's like, I've been here for three, you know, he had been here almost three weeks. He's like, we didn't do anything. I'm like, he's like, you lucky son of a bitch. He's like, I don't, I don't even want her back, keep her. So, uh, that was my first deployment and we did that for four months straight, dude. It was just the

• 1:03:29Jack Murphy?

  That's ball.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  The greatest. Yeah, dude, it was, wake up, work out, sleep, sun comes up, pages go off and it was like out the door, dude.

• 1:03:38Jack Murphy?

  You, you, uh, going in on little birds?

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  Little birds and Blackhawks, man.

• 1:03:43Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  It was, it was dope, dude. I thought those days were over cause like, I'm like, we're in Afghanistan. We're like, nah, dude, it wasn't cars, it was motorcycles. So it was really cool.

• 1:03:54Jack Murphy?

  Yup, yup, yup. Yeah, I mean, so you, yeah, going out and policing up the HVIs, uh, as opposed to drone striking them.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a good time, man.

• 1:04:07Jack Murphy?

  So now you're off to the races, man. Like this is the real deal.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I do, uh, I do another, I call it conventional deployment, the unit. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I do another assault style deployment like that. Uh, and then, um, they realize I'm from New Jersey, right? And that, uh, I'm actually really, really good on the streets because I grew up on the streets. And so the unit wanted to take advantage of that and, you know, put me through some more courses and that was pretty much what I did the, uh, the rest of the time I was there.

• 1:04:40Jack Murphy?

  Oh, really? That's pretty cool.

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude, like,

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  clandestine word, recce style stuff, whatever. Like, yeah, I did that. I did that the rest of the time of the unit. So I left.

• 1:04:50Jack Murphy?

  Wow. So you, so you reclassed without reclassing?

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and again, it was something I was good at, man. Like, um, I was able to get, I was able to stand up other programs in like four or five other countries, um, and help them out. And then, uh, I got language school. So I was the first EOD guy, um, in the unit to get French. Um, that opened up some doors when Syria kicked off because a lot of, you know, ISIS fighters had, uh, French passports and shit. So, um, yeah, dude, it was, it was really, really good, man. Like, there's some real, real cool stuff.

• 1:05:21Jack Murphy?

  I, I, I know you're probably limited on what you're allowed to say about that, but can you talk about the ISIS stuff and, and sort of how that went down? Twenty, what, fifteen?

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh. I'll tell you a funny story, because this this is quite hilarious to me. So we started seeing all this news, and we all knew we're going back to Iraq, right? We all, everybody knew.

• 1:05:40Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  Everybody called, right? Anybody ever talks like, yeah, we'll be back. I thought it was gonna be a hell of a lot, like, longer, like, and I think it was gonna go back soon. But I remember when we got the word, and uh, whenever uh, the unit commander wants to like, put out a uh, like a, like a mass message, like he does it in person, which like, every unit commander's done this, at least the whole time I was there, and I love it. They usually do it in our child hall, right? And so I remember uh, the commander goes, alright guys, you know, the president's authorized three hundred, you know, people to go on ground. And I remember like, asking like, wait a minute, man, like, the last time anybody sent three hundred of anybody to fight a massive force, that shit ain't turned out too good for them, right? So, we're all thinking that, right? Um, it ended up being a hell of a lot more than three hundred. I just think the

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  politics or whatever, uh, but uh, with ISIS, it was uh, that was interesting, dude. I think um, you'd, you'd probably keep up with it now where it's uh, they're talking about near peer competition and blah, blah, blah, and all sorts of stuff. And like, dude, like, when in Syria, I watched every form of warfare that I've ever read about, right? So you had trench warfare, in some parts you had a freaking flop, you know, with like tank warfare almost, you would go and hit a building, and they got a ton of warfare, and it was like, Vietnam, it was like literally everywhere we have fought, and they're like, this is the new age of warfare. I'm like, no dude, we're fighting that shit in

• 1:06:59Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  Syria right now, like on, on multiple different fronts. And it was, it was like, it was the craziest thing to me, because like, you would go from trench warfare and calling for fire, and then you would have a flop, and you would move forward, and then you would go right to like, you know, freaking tactical style CQB, and it was weird, man. It was, it was super interesting, like, um, and ISIS wasn't stupid.

• 1:07:20Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask, I mean, as a, I know you weren't really working in an EOD capacity anymore with the assault squadrons, but um, ISIS was booby trapping the hell out of everything.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  They booby trapped everything, dude. Everything. Like, um.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, the ISIS, the reason why the the UNICEF troop took one of his first like major casualties is from the booby traps. And then their booby traps were like super intelligent, man. Like booby traps that will like get tricked a bunch of different times. You never knew when it was going to go off. And it was there the whole time, like dudes walking in and out five, six, you know, seven, like hundreds of times through a doorway. And then finally like number one oh one, it blows up.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  So those guys, those guys were, those guys were smart, man.

• 1:08:05Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:07Jack Murphy?

  Um, and from your point of view, like, how was the battle unfolding? I mean, we were there for, or you guys were there for what, five, six years?

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe so. Um.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  I think. It was really interesting because like, I think we were, we were hamstrung for a little bit. And then there was this weird thing with the pair, the the person Merga and like what they were allowed to do, what they weren't allowed to do. Yeah. How to use them, but then they have their own agenda rightfully so, right? Like, so, um, but then I think once the, once the gloves came off and they just started like smashing dudes like, like it went, it went away. Like, once, once we, once we stopped being told what to do and they were like, just go win the goddamn war. Like, that's when she got her, like, room, like, and every time you tell, like, any of the J monster units, like, go win the goddamn war. Like, we'll be done in like two months. So it's just about words, man.

• 1:09:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, uh, and thankfully, yeah, you guys had good partner forces also.

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep.

• 1:09:09Jack Murphy?

  Were, uh, you able to use the, I mean, I don't know if you were doing like, uh, proxy type stuff, but were you able to use the Kurds for intelligence gathering as well?

• 1:09:19Speaker 03

  Some guys were, we were doing like the team that I was on at the time, um, our whole deal was like confirmed or denied. Like, when you start talking about, uh, some of the barrels that are being dropped on the Syrian people. So I, I was on one of those teams.

• 1:09:34Jack Murphy?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Jack Murphy?

  Uh.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  I'm still, yeah, right? So like, uh, and, and WMD is my, my jam, so.

• 1:09:42Jack Murphy?

  So they, they had you oriented, um, your real mission oriented against the regime rather than ISIS.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and because again, you gotta, you gotta think, man, like, if the regime hat fell, right, and then you got ISIS in charge of that country, what's next? This is like everybody's worst nightmare. You got a terrorist organization with a bunch of shit.

• 1:10:01Jack Murphy?

  With mustard gas, yeah.

• 1:10:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:04Jack Murphy?

  Um, did you ever, you know, gather any evidence on the ground of, you know, a chemical weapon deployment?

• 1:10:14Speaker 03

  Hmm, let me see how to answer that. Uh, let's say that

• 1:10:21Speaker 03

  if I have like

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  part A and part B, if I put these two together, it's illegal, but if I keep them separate, it still fuck people up, but it's not illegal anymore, kind of?

• 1:10:32Jack Murphy?

  Right, yeah, okay.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  That's what it was.

• 1:10:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, you found the components.

• 1:10:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, and like, is again, like, there's this, some of these rules don't make any freaking sense, but like, it still has the same effect, right? Just, but just because it's not those two parts together, and it's not technically, it's not illegal. You can technically say I didn't drop chemical warfare agents, right?

• 1:10:51Jack Murphy?

  And I mean, but we know now for a fact that they did drop chemical weapons on civilian populations.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Yep. You took, you took a page right out of Saddam's handbook.

• 1:11:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, and there were some limited cases, as I recalled, where ISIS used like some chlorine gas or something, not often, though.

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's a

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  yeah, and it was, it was a, I think those are targets of opportunity, man, like, again, but it's, it's you can say that that's CWA, like, and I would, I would back anybody who says that any day of the week, because you gotta think, like, when you start looking at, like, Gen one weapons, chlorine is a part of the Gen one weapons, right, like chlorine was used in World War I, so it's just, again, history's just repeating itself.

• 1:11:35Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Uh, was there a moment where you felt like the tide in that campaign was turning? And that, you know, there's gonna be some sort of victory? Or end state um for you know what you were trying to accomplish over there?

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  Nah, man. I haven't felt that way about any war in a long time.

• 1:11:52Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I'm sorry.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  I like it's it's like it's it's a I try to make light of it so I don't drive myself crazy is like all right it's job security but like I haven't felt that way about any like.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  Even Iraq like once once like we took down our regime I was just like well we got the you know we got the whole deck of cards and like that and then at some point I was like yeah we should leave and I think we can call it victory but I'm not sure we've called victory anywhere in a long time.

• 1:12:17Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, there's never any real closure on it.

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:23Jack Murphy?

  Um, yeah, before we move on, uh, you you said there are some stories that you wanted to tell about like a landing on the highway.

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, so um if anybody's thinking about joining the unit, right, it'll be my my moment to like be a recruiter, right? You should because like there's this where I call it like double force moments. I think these these moments can only happen in like these like top tier organizations. And so one of the things we were doing, we're training for uh we're training on like how do we get these samples or whatever, right? Like out of the country without breaking any freaking laws, right? Like international laws, right? Because like again, that plane goes down. But like what does the pilot need to wear? Like we were like trying to figure all this shit out, right? Because nobody had done it before, like or at least nobody had done it since like World War Two. And a lot of shit has changed on like what was legal, what wasn't legal, right?

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  And so uh we're we're training in Texas and um they're like, okay, your team is gonna go do some cool stuff, go break into this place, we're gonna get a sample and then we need to get it out of country, right? Uh, quote unquote. And so they're like, all right, well, let's pick a spot. We talked to the pilots and like, hey, we're gonna land here. And I'm like, that's on the highway. They're like, yeah, we know, but that's the only place we can land. I'm like. Alright, cool dude, like, we'll do it, right? And so we're like, what do you need to land? And they're like, well, we need a runway. And I'm like, well, you already have the, like, what do you else you need? Like, well, we need runway lights. And I'm like, shit. So me and my team leader, we run to Walmart and like, so we got a bunch of cash on us. We buy a bunch of, uh, like buckets or whatever, um, the, the, the rectangle tin or rectangle plastic bins.

• 1:14:01Speaker 03

  And then he's like, uh, he's asking me, he's like, how are we gonna like, light the runway up? So I'm like, I got an idea. So I ran and bought a bunch of aluminum tape and then the camping lanterns. And like, I line a hole inside of these bins with the aluminum tape and we put the camera lanterns in there and they're, now they're bright. So the aluminum tape is, you know, reflecting and they're bright as shit, right? And I think we ended up buying eight of those total and putting four on each side. Um, and like, we're talking to the pilots through cell phones, but they're in the sky, which is again, a whole nother, like, just look it up, it's dope fucking technology. Like, I'm like, is, this whole time, like, we're not about to do this, right? Like, but we're sure enough talking to these pilots, man. And they're like, yeah, dude, we see the runway clear as fucking day. It's like two or three o'clock in the morning.

• 1:14:43Speaker 03

  And sure enough, they land this fucking bird right on the highway. Like, we're parked probably 200 feet from where they landed. We go and give them a cooler full of whatever the hell we, we supposed to give them. They get in their bird, they take off. And I like, look at my team, my team leader at this time, I'm like, bro, did we just land a fucking bird on the highway with shit we bought from Walmart? And he was like, we sure did. And I was like, yeah, man, that was like one of my many, what I like to call the delta force moments, because that happened quite often. It doesn't happen every day, but like, I would say good, three times a year, you get those moments and you're like, man, I fucking, I'm in the right spot right now. Because this would never happen. And like, I mean, I don't believe this story myself when I tell it. So it's just like, you know what I mean? Like, but that happened a lot, man. Where you was able to do cool stuff and you just solved whatever problem that came up and nobody stopped you.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  A- any other examples you wanna give? Uh, let me see.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, first, my first Delta Force moment ever was in OCC, right? Um, and I'm hoping that if that guy remembers this, that, uh, he's cleaned up his life and stopped drinking. So we are, uh, doing culmination and we're in downtown Fayetteville. This is like Thursday, Thursday on like two in the morning and we've hit like four or five bars, like, like legit bars in Fayetteville downtown. Um, and you know, we're training, we're looking for whoever the hell we're looking for.

• 1:16:03Jack Murphy?

  But so the, when you say hit the bar, that has like a different connotation. Well, what, what?

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  We're drinking, right? We're, we're looking for bad guys in, in the training scenario, but this is downtown Fayetteville. I can't remember, uh, yeah, so we assault these bars, right? And a bunch of different stores downtown, looking for these, uh, looking for these bad guys. And I remember the, uh, I think we had dry hole, we did SCC or something. And I remember the, uh, they're like, hey, about the Xville. And so I'm thinking to myself, like, there's no way they're gonna land this fucking Chinook, like, by, right? Where they landed the Chinook was where, uh, uh, you know, the parking lot by the baseball stadium?

• 1:16:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  That's where Xville was at. Yeah. So, uh, parking lot by the baseball stadium was where, uh, uh, Xville was at. And the baseball stadium wasn't even there at this time, right? This is like years ago, right? But I remember walking through this park and this, and we're, you know, all this had multi cam, the, uh, the panels that just came out. So I know for a fact that like in the dark, like at two in the morning, we probably all do like green eye freaking demons, right? And this bum was like laying on a bench and he's like passed out. He got a bottle of something in his hand, right? And he looks up at us and we're all walking to Xville, quiet as shit. And I just remember like putting my hand like, shh, he looks at his bottle. He throws it and then goes back to sleep. I'm assuming that guy quit drinking. Because you watch this fucking troop of Delta Force dudes walk through his apartment two in the morning.

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  Um, after we done just tore up some bar and, uh, we Xville, right? Like, I'm not sure if the, the bird work him up, but like, like, I don't know what the hell was going through that guy's head, but I'm like, nowhere else would that have happened other than the freaking Union. I'm like literally in doubt, like I'm, I went to that bar, like I was at that bar three, three nights ago, but we were something there.

• 1:17:52Jack Murphy?

  Was that, this is the parking lot behind Husk and Hardware?

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  That's the bar we hit. We hit Husk and Hardware.

• 1:17:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  That's our, that's our last hire, dude. Yeah.

• 1:18:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly where that is. Um, so I mean, you've had some like insane experiences, highly trained being, you know, trained as really an operator, but also an EOD guy, but also as a recy guy. And what's it getting to be like as you're becoming a senior guy, you're becoming, you may, you may went up to sergeant major at the unit as a EOD guy, didn't you?

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yep. I uh, yeah, I left the unit as a sergeant major and went to Fort Lee for a year, um, where I like was in charge of like,

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  all things EOD for training and like doctrine for the army. And then they end up standing up another, uh, they stood up the CWMD sergeant major position that you saw. And so they were like, hey, there's only one person in the world can do this. Like, you want to come back to Fort Bragg? I'm like, yep, sure do. Cause again, I have been here my whole career.

• 1:18:54Jack Murphy?

  And what was like that, like smaller transition, like coming out of the unit and going to back to conventional? And now, now you gotta shave and get a haircut and everything else.

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that was crazy, dude. But I figured out the cheat code, right? So all these sergeant majors at Fort Lee, I'm the youngest guy there, right? Obviously I got all this stuff on my chest, right? I got scrolls on this side. So like, nobody really mess with me. But then they started saying stuff like, hey, we got this meeting and this meeting. I'm like, the, the good news is at the time, uh, the, uh, CASCOM sergeant major was a former unit member too. He was a mechanic and he, and so he looked, he took one look at me and was like, where'd you come from? And I was like, you know where I came from, right? Like, and I was like, hey, here's the deal, dude. I'm not going to anybody's meeting. I was like, I'm not like, I'm a sergeant major. I was like, I'm supposed to be taking care of troops. So I end up spending most of my time finding things that fell off the back of a truck to go help out ALC.

• 1:19:46Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  So they can have better trainings. Yeah. And so they respected that. I was like, I'm not, I don't care about people walking on the grass. I don't give two shits about haircuts. Like, I'm not going to have a meeting to talk about how cool, when we're cool sergeant majors, when we're all supposed to be helping out troops. So that was my attitude and nobody mess with me the whole time I was at Fort Lee.

• 1:20:00Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's awesome. And I, and then you went back to Yususak and what was that position like?

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  Um, different. It was like trial by fire. So now I'm looking at all the stuff that I'm in charge of all the money that I bitched about as a team guy. So like, and I'm looking at the budget and like I have the, you know, help out regiment and write stuff for, for their training. The unit has training, like, uh, all these other folks have training. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get, um, Green Berets EOD guys now and come up with that training pipeline. So, um, it made me appreciate the guy I was cursing out that I never met when I was at the lower levels talking about who should give me what money. Cause I became that guy. And so I'm getting all these emails like, oh, T, you suck. Like we want this training. I'm like, yeah, bro, we don't have it.

• 1:20:54Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. You see how the machine works.

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was, it was, it was, uh, it was fun, dude. Like it was really, really fun.

• 1:21:01Jack Murphy?

  Was that your last assignment before retirement?

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I ended up medically retiring. So all those helicopter crashes being blown up or whatever caught up to me. And so, um, it was getting hard to even stand for like longer than 10 minutes without like, just my feet hurting. So they had to rebuild my left foot. So I end up like, you've seen the X-ray on my left foot. It looks like frigging Wolverine.

• 1:21:22Jack Murphy?

  With all the metal in there?

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude. Like, I don't, yeah, they got, I don't know how, the doctors told me I got like a seven in one special. So like, um, but yeah, they got, they put all kinds of crazy stuff in there, man. Like, um, and I ended up medically retiring with 22 years.

• 1:21:35Jack Murphy?

  Wow. Um, and so your book, uh, Mind of a Soldier, it's all about the transition from being a soldier to civilian life. Um, and I mean, it's written in such a direct, non pretentious way. I mean, you wrote it like a sergeant major writes or talks, I should say. Um, it's straight, it's straight to the point. No BS at all in it. Um, I really appreciated that. But I mean, the fact that you wrote this book tells me you must've gone through a pretty difficult journey yourself transitioning out of the military.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  I did. Um, and they caught me off guard. Um, big time. Like I didn't realize though. Like how much I needed the boys and then I didn't realize how I was like behaving towards my family, right? Like it just it's certain things like drinking more and like not understanding like um

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  uh what's what and how much I actually miss it like and it's hard to explain that to people when you're like you in the war and I'm like, yeah, but I miss it like, but I can't explain like it was hard for me to explain what I missed and why I missed it, right? And then um and I talked about this in the book, right? I didn't realize how important um how important the team's role and the team's job is protecting you from yourself.

• 1:22:52Speaker 03

  Right? Like, nobody calls me out and like I can over I can sleep for three days right now. Nobody will say a goddamn word.

• 1:22:56Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  Right? You know what I mean? Like, but couldn't do that in a unit, couldn't do that regiment, couldn't do that even in eighty seconds, couldn't do that, right? Like you were always accountable to somebody.

• 1:23:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, there's always a squad leader that's telling you like, hey, you need to drink water. Okay.

• 1:23:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep.

• 1:23:11Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, but when you're out, you don't have that anymore and it's just go.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:17Speaker 03

  Yep. So like even if you like even if you go out partying with the boys, right? Like if you're drinking just a little too much or uh you suck in the gym that day or like somebody notices that, right? Cause like you guys are all calibrated to each other, right? Like and it's

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  I don't think anybody like I don't think you can have that type of calibration with anybody else without going to war or being like um

• 1:23:37Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:38Speaker 03

  any like high stress like environments with with with the these people, right? Like um so, yeah, like I had a fairly rough transition. The thing that pulled me out was my buddy like was like, how are you doing, man? I'm like, I'm good. He's like, bullshit, dude. Come get coffee with me. And then like he got me out on it like the first time anybody had did that and I had been out again like I've I feel like on paper, I had a great transition, right? Like I left the military with uh two master's degrees, a freaking um post grad certificate in AI, right? Like I was writing code. I had I had a job, right? Like I just but something was off to even I couldn't call it.

• 1:24:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Um, one of the points that I think was really good that you make in this book is that there is a system that veterans go through and the system does not dislike you, but it's not built for you either.

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:24:30Jack Murphy?

  And you know, from the Veterans Affairs system to how corporations hire people, all of it, it's because of like this whole civil military divide that people talk about nowadays, that there's such a, um, most civilians have no experience with the military. It just accentuates them.

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• 1:25:43Jack Murphy?

  That issue, um, what was kind of your experience? I mean, if you want to talk about it or talk about what's in the book as far as like going to VA and trying to go through the system to get the help that you need?

• 1:25:59Speaker 03

  So I'll tell you, because I'm medically retired and then I did all the VA stuff prior to like.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  I've only been to the VA for like a couple of things, right? But then like as I realized that like

• 1:26:14Speaker 03

  other people need help, like I li- uh, I just talked to one of my uh friends, uh, she's a, she's a female operator. Um, and she got hurt really bad and now the VA is telling her she has to redo all her stuff. But I mean, like when I said she got hurt bad, she was coming down and jumped and broke her pelvis, both her hips, like she just tore it, right? Um, and uh, but the VA just emailed her the other day and, and they're like, you gotta redo all your shit, right? And I'm like, why? Right? Or, you know, they came out and they tried to sneak it on the table because, and you know, they did because they released it at like seven o'clock at night. When they're like, oh, we're gonna freaking, um, if medicine is made, this is like two, three months ago, uh, right before I released the book, dude. And I was like, these sons of bitches, um, they put that if you were taking medication and it was making any of your ailments better, they were gonna lower your percentage.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  Like now granted, the VFW, the DAV, like they, like those boys did their damn thing, man, because they were up in arms. Yeah, but I'm like, for, for me personally, my fight has been to help other veterans because again, I'm a sergeant major. So I can pick up the phone and be like, hey, look at my fucking rank and like, get some stuff done. That E4 can't do that.

• 1:27:18Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:27:18Speaker 03

  Right? Like, you know what I mean? Like that, that E5 can't do that, right? So like, uh,

• 1:27:24Speaker 03

  I am now working with nonprofits and working with other veterans, like any veteran can call me any day of the week and I will help them out, right? Especially if it's, if it's going after, and again, I'm not blaming the VA, the people at the VA, just the system's jacked up, man. It's not, it's not built for, they, they didn't build it the same way they built us to actually be a part of that system.

• 1:27:44Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Yeah. The VA, I think, I, I mean, it's come a long way, I must say.

• 1:27:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:27:48Jack Murphy?

  It's, it's much better than it was 10, 20 years ago. Um, but I think the VA is more geared, generally speaking, towards helping like really destitute uh, veterans. Um, more than guys like, guys like us that, you know, at one Point in our lives, I've I've heard it described as being functionally fucked up that you you go to you go to work, you're a high performer on, you know, as far as on the outside looking in, you look like you're doing great, you know, making making money, all that stuff, but inside your internal world is just a mess.

• 1:28:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. The other thing too is like, you'll see, and I see this, I get the emails all the time about like, how good the VA is doing, but this is, this is what I would say. The VA was really doing good. So it's 18 million, and this is a a a destination, right? Um, but you see a couple of, there's 18 million veterans in the United States. You know, the VA is only tracking half of those. So you can't be doing that great if nine million people don't even want to fuck to talk to you.

• 1:28:48Jack Murphy?

  True.

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  Like, that's that's my, that's my, it's definitely a lot better, but there's still, there's still 50% of us don't even like that. The VA is not even tracking. No benefits, no nothing, no, no healthcare, no nothing.

• 1:29:03Jack Murphy?

  I I think the other thing this book does very well is explain, you know, what it's like to be a soldier and then come into the civilian world. And your frame of reference has changed, but the way you write it, you talk about how you have an operating system, you know, like a computer operating system that has been programmed into you as a soldier. And that the OS is still running in the background somewhere. It's not just gonna go away.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, I hate this is, but I think like creating a soldier or marine or airman or sailor, whatever, it's the greatest like brainwashing tool in history, right? Like you live, like, think about who you were before you joined the military, who you were after you joined, like literally in nine weeks, you're a whole different person. Like they like, they have like rebooted your frigging bios, dude, like you have a whole new, and then you go to Ranger Regiment, right? And then you like, you go to RIP, you go to, you go to all these things, right? Put on that frigging beret, dude, like you are not that same kid who frigging joined the army, you know, however many months ago. Um, then you start doing deployments and like your operating system is getting better. It's, you know, I mean, like, because when you're successful, like, you learn from mistakes, you get better. It's

• 1:30:11Speaker 03

  like, then you get out and they're like, here's taps, right? Here's, here's a SFL tap or whatever, and they give you two weeks to go, yeah, and cut all that shit out.

• 1:30:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, man. I mean, I've complained about it before. And again, I think it's probably better today. But when I went through taps, you talk about this actually in your book about how they have you type in your MOS to the computer and it tells you what jobs you're qualified for. So I type in 18 Bravo, hit enter. One job comes up. I'm qualified to be a security guard. That's it.

• 1:30:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:45Jack Murphy?

  That's the only and you know, like, you know, you have, you know, some wherewithal is you were retired sergeant major. I at least had some, some, some, something in the back of my brain that was like, ah, fuck that. I can do other stuff, you know. But what does that do to like a E4 or an E3? Who thinks like, this is the only thing I can do in life. This is my potential is here on this computer screen.

• 1:31:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so that's where it starts getting funny, right? Like,

• 1:31:13Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:14Speaker 03

  you lose your identity and then you think you're this one person and you type in that job and it's like you could be a security guard. Like, you know exactly what that's those guys. They start over medicating, right? Like, um, and they don't get help. Um, nobody's checking their back. You don't have a team anymore. They're by themselves, right? Like, the VA is not checking on anybody. The VA doesn't care. Right? Once you leave, like, you're farting away. You know how it is, man. Like, you might still have a couple buddies that check on you, but like, we know the worst happens, right? Like, that, that E4, because like, that's the, the numbers say it. Like, even now, the highest risk for, for, uh, post military service suicide right now are like 20 something years with no deployments. So you can't say it was war.

• 1:31:54Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  Right? So what is it? It's that, that thing right there that you're talking about.

• 1:31:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Um, you know, and it again, leading into, you know, uh, it's a little darker, but we should talk about it. In your book, you talk about, um, suicidal ideation and how a lot of veterans don't actually want to die. They really just want to be able to turn the off switch on their brain for a few hours and get some sleep.

• 1:32:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:20Jack Murphy?

  I think a lot of people don't get that.

• 1:32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a.

• 1:32:25Speaker 03

  We uh, I I have no problem talking about this, right? Like, uh, I was that guy with a freaking pistol in his mouth, right? And again, it wasn't a thing that freaking, like, I didn't want to die. Like, I I love life. I just didn't love how my life was at the time, and I didn't have any other, any other, at least I didn't think I had any other option, right? And it was like, I'm in pain all the time, I'm having headaches, like, uh, you know, frigging, married, divorced three, four times, right? Like, most guys, right? Like, you like, you don't get, you don't know who the hell your kids are. Your kids don't know you, and like, you're straight, you're a ghost in a shop, right? And it's like, uh,

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  you can't even say stuff like that, all right, without, one, destroying your career when you're still in.

• 1:33:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  And then, two, somebody wanting to freaking take your goddamn shoelaces, when you're like, hey, man, like, I just need something, like, the answer right now is SSRIs, right? And like, that makes you fucking, you know, that makes you freaking fat. You start gaining weight, your junk doesn't work as a man, like, it's just, it it sets you up to have this cyclic, like, I don't know, like, noise thing in your head and like, um, start, again, you start self-medicating, you start drinking, it's just, it's a, it's a, it's a horrible cycle, but, um,

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  we don't talk about that enough, like, there is, they're getting better, right? I'm glad that, uh, especially recently, right, with the psychedelics thing, but like, just that right now, the conversation we're having right now, I don't think that conversation's had enough.

• 1:33:56Jack Murphy?

  That it doesn't happen, uh, until recently?

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, so like, it's it's like, nobody, it's a thing of where they are trying, the whole point of the book was, it's not any one thing, it's all those things that I talk about, right? That's what's, the reason why the book started, somebody asked me the question of why are veterans committing suicide? And I think they were looking for one answer. It's not one answer. It's all those things, man. And it's like, once, once people start paying attention and looking at it holistically and looking at a veteran as a whole, and not like, oh, this guy got PTSD, or this guy did, like, no, it's, or, you know, this female did this. Look at the whole freaking system right now and have this conversation me and you are having right now. Allow people to have that conversation without any taboo or any type of stipulations. And less people will kill themselves, guaranteed.

• 1:34:45Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. No, absolutely, man. What was, I mean, you talk in the book about how, you know, it is important, and I agree to go to VA and make the system work. Make it work for you, figure out how it works.

• 1:34:59Jack Murphy?

  What did, what was kind of your way forward? What did you find was helpful?

• 1:35:04Speaker 03

  Um, I can't remember the exact, like, chapter, but it was, uh, you know, the whole thing, man, you probably said it right, like, what's good in life, right? And, and you would give the.

• 1:35:14Jack Murphy?

  What is best in life?

• 1:35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. It's like, that used to be my answer, and I would have told you that, that crap like years ago. But now it's like, you need adrenaline, right? So you need to scare the shit out of yourself every day, whatever that means to you. Um, you need a purpose, and you need a tribe, dude, or you need your, you need your pack. Right? So, um, that was the change in for me, right? So like, getting out there and doing stuff, um, hell, this podcast, right? I'm not like, even as a sergeant major, dude, like, I was always a worker, right? Like, so, public speaking and slowing down and getting my thoughts together, right? And, and try not to curse so much. Like, so like, that scared me, right? Like, not, like, I'm not afraid of anything, but you understand, right? Like, that's a, that's a form of adrenaline, right? Getting out of my comfort zone. Um, I ride with a bunch of really, really good dudes. That's my pack, right?

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  And then my purpose is helping other veterans. And getting, telling our story, like, the proper way where, without a bunch of like. Medical stuff that it really doesn't apply to us.

• 1:36:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I, that's again, what I liked about the book. It's not a pity party. That's not what it's about. It, it's not about like feeling sorry for guys. That's really not the point. It, it's just about getting help and getting the steps that you need to take to get where you need to go.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Yep. And I figure like, and then that's other things like, like writing a book and publishing it scared the hell out of me, dude. Cause I'm like, hey, there's parts in that book where I'm vulnerable as hell.

• 1:36:35Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  Right. But I would rather be that one guy that saves 20 other dudes, right? Like, oh shit, this, you know, default sergeant major can say it like, all right, I'm gonna go talk to somebody.

• 1:36:45Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, absolutely. I, there's even a chapter in here about why, uh, telling a veteran, thank you for your service is kind of awkward. I mean, every, every chapter in this book, I felt like, yeah, I know exactly what this guy's talking about.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, I appreciate that. That, uh, I get that one. It's, uh, it is the conversation before it starts, right? Like,

• 1:37:07Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:37:08Speaker 03

  I mean, I get it. Again, I'm a data guy, right? So like I, I've researched and figured out why the hell is anybody like, but I don't know what to say to that. Right? Thank you for your service. I, I usually say thank you or okay. Like I, I've never really said you're welcome. It's just so awkward, dude. Like it's, it's overcorrection for how bad they treated Vietnam vets.

• 1:37:25Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And I mean, I understand the intent behind it and you know, and will say thank you, but I, I feel like, you know, most veterans learn quite quickly. That they kind of like want to hear something positive, come away with a good feeling from that interaction. But they really don't want to hear you telling the kinds of stories that we talk about on this podcast.

• 1:37:48Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:37:49Jack Murphy?

  That makes, that gets awkward for them, I think.

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, and so I try to like, I, I was seeing the book, I joke about, you know, you know, You know, hit me with like Donde Estalla Biblioteca or something, right? Like, just ask me, like, where did I serve, right? Like, you know, what was my job? Like, most veterans want to talk about stuff. Like, they just want to be heard, man. Like, they want, they want people to understand, like, we want people to understand them. But like, when you say, thank you for your service, it's just like, all right, I'm out. I don't care.

• 1:38:17Speaker 03

  You gotta go with that.

• 1:38:18Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I, I do think there's, um, a desire for recognition. Um, not, not like personal recognition, but more like a, a countrywide recognition that these wars took place, that they happened.

• 1:38:30Speaker 03

  Um, right.

• 1:38:30Jack Murphy?

  Otherwise, it's, you know, the guys out there who served, I, it feels sort of like this collective fever dream we all had. And you're sort of like, did that really happen?

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  It's like, yeah, we're gonna be talking about this five years from now. People are like, nah, this Mandela effect, right? We didn't go to war.

• 1:38:49Jack Murphy?

  Um, what, what else in the, in the book? Uh, so you talk about, um, alternative treatments that guys can, um, take a look at as well. The Stellan Ganglion Block. Um, some of the psychedelics. Uh, there's, there's recently on Netflix, a documentary about the SEALs going down to Mexico and doing the, um, I think it was Iba game.

• 1:39:12Speaker 03

  I watched it. Uh, uh, yeah, Iba game and I watched.

• 1:39:15Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And, and it's a really good documentary. People should go check it out if they have the chance. But, um, you know, people think on this, or you could think on the surface of it, like, oh, these SEALs are going down to Mexico and tripping balls. Well, that's not really what's happening there is that they are going down there and doing that because every other treatment they've received thus far has failed them. And they are looking for some measure of relief that you mentioned in your book, that this operating system is running full tilt until it starts malfunctioning. And it just wants some relief from that. And, and some guys, you know, have found it in psychedelics.

• 1:39:51Speaker 03

  Yep. I agree. Um, so I'll, uh,

• 1:39:58Speaker 03

  So the stuff that the SEALs are doing, here's the cool thing about that, right? It's not, obviously you know, right? People don't watch the documentary. Basically, um, they had to go to Mexico because it started in Canada, right? And, um, that treatment facility and that doctor who did that, um, basically were getting people to quit heroin. One of the most addictive drugs on the planet, right? From one treatment, from one session, right? So it was like however long it lasts, like, you know, uh, three, four days or whatever, right? Um, one person died. One person. And the reason why it died, he lied on his freaking form and was like, uh, they actually have you done any drugs and blah, blah. And like the whole, the whole, uh, platform and the whole thing that, uh, they do is probably the most, um,

• 1:40:44Speaker 03

  well put together. They have doctors on call, like they, they, they monitor your heart rate, do all this stuff. But the one guy who, who died from it had done heroin like two days prior. So his heart gave out on him and it wasn't because of the frigging, uh, Ibogaine. It was because of the frigging heroin, right? But Canada shut them down, so they had to move everything to Mexico. Um, but you have, um, guys going down there and finding a bunch of relief. Uh,

• 1:41:10Speaker 03

  and becoming what I would say, becoming human again. Um, so I'm a huge fan of psychedelics. Um, I'm a huge fan of SGB. I've done, um, all four, like, and the dual, so two on this side, two on that side. Um, slept for the first time in frigging, um, years, man. Like after they did the first, the first set on that side and I did the ketamine, uh, treatment through a nonprofit for, uh, for that, like I went back to my hotel room and I would say, I think I slept like thirteen hours straight.

• 1:41:40Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  And it was like, it wasn't like that, that weird, you just lay, like I legitimately slept thirteen hours straight.

• 1:41:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's like you blinked and it's daylight suddenly.

• 1:41:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I was like, I wanted to go for a run, like I felt amazing. Like I felt, I haven't felt that good in years. So I'm a huge fan of like, alternative options over just putting somebody on frigging Xanax for the rest of their frigging life. Cause like, that's another thing, like a lot of these guys are doing these, um, if you don't know, a lot of these guys are doing these treatments, whether it's like psilocylin or Ibogaine or some type of DMT. And they are coming off of all drugs, like to include alcohol and cigarettes.

• 1:42:21Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. Yeah, I know a couple of people like that who've came back and like they just don't drink anymore.

• 1:42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't drink anymore. Not saying I went out to Mexico, but something similar, but I I drank for my birthday, but I used to be the guy who couldn't take one drink. Um, I couldn't just do one drink, but now I can, right? But I don't drink anymore. I drink for my birthday. I drink for New Year's and like I have no urge to drink.

• 1:42:44Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:46Jack Murphy?

  Um, any other um main points from your book that you'd like to talk about?

• 1:42:52Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:42:57Speaker 03

  The I'll say kind of the two-part civilian thing. Um, I don't know how many civilians watch the show, right? But like the the higher piece, because you say you're, you know, you're 18 Bravo, right? And then the uh the differences that I outline or lay out in the uh between officers and enlisted, right? Not knocking officers, but like I think uh we get the the bad rap when it comes to um veterans, right? Um, and I'll back that up with numbers linked in, right? Like an officer with the same job um will get on LinkedIn, like LinkedIn did the study, and they will get offered um, I think forty percent more likely to get offered the executive position over enlisted guy. And so I'll use you if you, you know, if you're 18 Bravo, right? Like a team sergeant, whatever, right?

• 1:43:42Speaker 03

  Even if you weren't, but like you look at that that team, that 18 uh Alpha, right? He leads a team for what, one to two years? And then that team sergeant might have that team for like multiple rotations, but he's also leading foreigners and speaking a different language, right? Like who has more leadership experience, him or the officer? I don't think a lot of civilians understand that.

• 1:44:01Jack Murphy?

  I I think, you know, we we can also use you as an example that for you to retire and go into the civilian world and trying to get a job and people ask, well, what did you do in the military? And you say, I was an EOD Sergeant Major in Delta Force. Um, everyone who watches this podcast knows that's cool. Like, okay, yeah, that's that's awesome. But you go into a corporate boardroom and they hear that and they're like, what is a Sergeant Major? What is EOD? What is what is Delta?

• 1:44:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:33Jack Murphy?

  And even after you explain all three of those things to them, they're still sort of like mystified, like their brain doesn't know how to process that.

• 1:44:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, so it's funny. I've told people like.

• 1:44:45Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, you know what a Master Chief is, right? Like Halo? They're like, yeah, like, okay, I was one of those. And I was like, you see the show, it's two, team six, right? Like, yeah, I was an army version of that, right? Like, oh, it's days good, like, like, this is the only way I get frigging. They built the better brand, right? So like, it's, it's funny, like, I have to use Halo and, and Navy rank and Navy units to, to get my, uh, my worth across, right? So it's, it's, uh, yeah, that, that's funny to me, man.

• 1:45:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  And I can't blame civilians for it, right? I can't blame them for it. Like, it's not their fault.

• 1:45:15Jack Murphy?

  Master Chief did so much for enlisted veterans.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. This is the truth, man, like, I have to like, when I tell people I'm a sergeant major, the first thing they say, which it doesn't piss me off anymore, but it used to like, that's like a sergeant, right? I'm like, oh, you fuck, you know, I mean, like, no, it's not like, it's nothing like a sergeant. And so I was like, you know, I was a Master Chief, like, oh, like Halo, yes, exactly like.

• 1:45:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, I mean, uh, you know, when you tell people you were a Ranger and they're like, I didn't know the Army had Park Rangers. That's crazy. And you try to explain it to them and they're like, i- is that like a Marine? And you're just like, yeah, yeah, it's like a Marine. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:45:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've, I've, I've had that, like, oh, you're a Ranger regiment. It's like Marie, right? Yeah, but we don't eat crayons. I don't know. Like, I love Marines, like, but, but, yeah, that's funny, man.

• 1:46:08Jack Murphy?

  So again, the, the book is Mind of a Soldier, Thirty Four Laws of War After the War. Um, so as the title suggests, thirty four chapters in here, each laying out something different. Um, that veterans need to know. And, and also this is a good book for family members to, to understand what their loved one is going through and experiencing. And if it seems like they have a short fuse, why that is, you know, it's not that they don't like you. There's other things going on in the background. Um, where can people find the book?

• 1:46:40Speaker 03

  Amazon. So it's all on Amazon and Goodreads, but Amazon is, uh, um, uh, number one. So it's Kindle, paperback, hardback and.

• 1:46:50Jack Murphy?

  And we'll have links down in the description for the viewers or listeners. They want to go and check that out. Um. Oh, another thing maybe I should mention, at least in passing here, because of your background, what about traumatic brain injury? And what that does to the soldiers, the veterans, and how that sort of interacts with some of the other ailments that they're kind of dealing with?

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, um, there is, when you, when you take a bunch of like hits to like the, the prefrontal cortex, um, it starts to like develop, um, like white or gray matter, it depends like we talk to, what they, what they call it, but what that does is, is eats out, eats away at that lining that's, um, like in your brain. And one of the crazy things is that like, as that goes away, you lose your, um, you lose your ability to like, make good choices essentially, right? Um, another symptom is like anger, um, and essentially like the stuff that made us warriors, right? Like downrange, it, those are the symptoms, which is crazy as hell. So

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  a lot of people are like, oh, it's, this is why a lot of PTSD symptoms and TBI symptoms, they can't tell you have TBI or PTSD because they're, they're similar, right? Um, and, and they kind of just like go hand in hand and they'll tell you it's unspecified or whatever. But then you can buy that with lack of sleep because you're in pain, which puts on more anger. And obviously, we all know how it is when we lose a bunch of sleep. And so you're running on fumes, you're in pain, and you potentially have, um, a bunch of traumatic brain injuries, right? Because it's not just like, like I said, I've been blown, I stopped counting at 40, dude. So I don't know how many concussion events I've had, right? I

• 1:48:32Speaker 03

  couldn't tell you. Um, but it's the same symptoms as PTSD, uh, and don't let anybody tell you it's just PTSD. If you've got your, if you got rocked a couple of times, right? Like, um, and the other thing, um, I didn't really put this too much in the book, but, uh, something else that got started getting checked out because this is real hot and heavy on Congress right now with the, um, um, hyperbaric oxygen, you know, uh, chambers now that they're talking about giving this, uh, VA treatments?

• 1:49:04Jack Murphy?

  The HAPS chambers?

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So it's like, uh, um, basically they're doing these like, um, with these oxygen chambers now that

• 1:49:15Speaker 03

  From a high altitude, like high altitude standpoint and high altitude being anything over three thousand feet, not like eighteen hundred feet, but obviously if you jumped out of planes and did halo, um, same difference, but that is reversing the effects of like TBI and some of this other stuff.

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude, like it's, it's a, if you look it up, do you like Congress is having this whole thing now where they want to start offering that to, to soldiers now where it's like you get to go in these, I've done it a couple of times, it's actually really, really, you feel really good, like they're giving you oxygen and like doing some other, I don't know all the science behind it, I haven't studied it much, but I've done it in the, it used to be only nonprofits offered it, but I think, um, that is going through Congress now for, for the VA to start offering that, so, um, if you look at like, uh, it's called,

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  like HPOC or something like that, like, um, just look at oxygen chambers in Congress and then that's going through the whole process now.

• 1:50:09Speaker 03

  But that helps a lot with TBI and, and some of the symptoms for PTSD as well, because again, those symptoms are very similar, so.

• 1:50:16Jack Murphy?

  And I, I guess to wrap up, I'd like to ask sort of like where you've landed in your journey, um, you said you work in tech now?

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I do, uh, I'm like the AI guru for a lot of these nonprofits, man. Um, I mentor veterans who want to get to tech because they are afraid that they, they can't, but, um, and then, uh, as a hobby, I, uh, I own three service dogs, I have three service dogs, um, so I try to pair non-soph members with service dogs who can't get them from soft like organizations.

• 1:50:47Jack Murphy?

  Gotcha, gotcha. That's super cool.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, man, that's my, my purpose is helping veterans, dude, to, to try to stop that, that number from climbing every year.

• 1:50:57Jack Murphy?

  Where can people find you, uh, online? Are you on social media or LinkedIn or anything?

• 1:51:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn under my name, uh, Samir Ransom, and then on social media, um, Mind of a Soldier has a bunch of pages, like, we're not super active, but if they look up my name, so they'll find us, um, just hit me up, um, I usually answer to anybody.

• 1:51:18Jack Murphy?

  Awesome, man. Um, again, I highly recommend people go and take a look at the book, especially transitioning veterans, uh, better to read this early on rather than wait a few years and have to learn the ropes yourself.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I appreciate that, man.

• 1:51:35Jack Murphy?

  Taamir, thank you so much for doing this interview tonight. Really appreciate it. Any final thoughts before we get going?

• 1:51:42Speaker 03

  No, I just appreciate the opportunity, man. Thanks for all the feedback on the book, man. Seriously, like, I'm honored and grateful.

• 1:51:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, absolutely. I loved it. And for everyone else, we'll see you guys next week. Appreciate you joining us tonight.

• 1:52:00Speaker 00

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• 1:52:58Jack Murphy?

  Hey, guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House Podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free and what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out. The things that are on the Team House, on our geopolitics podcast, Eyes On, things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor on the high side. Anything else that we have going on, books we recommend, upcoming guests that we have coming on the show. And also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. If you go and check it out, we send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys. It's just a kind of roll up of all of our content on a weekly basis.

• 1:53:43Jack Murphy?

  You can find our newsletter at teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. Again, the website for that is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. So we hope to see you there. The link will be down in the description.

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  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:01:20Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems, and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:01:48Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses, like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:02:24Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:03:25Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:04:25Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Covers seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:05:29Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default, and parental controls offer families additional options, like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.comPARENTS to learn more.

• 2:05:56Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Covers seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 2:06:26Speaker 00

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down rather than giving teens the answer. Study mode helps teens work through problems and interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default and parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com slash parents to learn more.

• 2:06:54Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps. OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star trust pilot reviews. OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. What would you like today? Can I get a number two? Anything else? Same shift. Different day. I need a smoke. What can I get? Same shift. I need a smoke. Different day.

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