How he validated Kettle and Fire with just $50 (Now a $100M Company)

Join me as I chat with Justin Mares, Founder of Kettle and Fire, as he explains his methodical approach to validating Kettle and Fire before fully launching it in 2014-2015. He created a basic landing page with a PayPal checkout to test if people would pay $29.99 for bone broth, achieving a 30% conversion rate despite having no actual product. The conversation highlights how modern AI tools have dramatically lowered barriers to entry for entrepreneurs testing new business ideas Timestamps: • 00:00 - Intro • 01:05 - The Scale of Kettle and Fire • 01:20 - The Initial Idea and Inspiration • 02:16 - Validating Market Demand • 04:03 - Addressing Skepticism on Market Research • 06:00 - Testing Pricing and Demand • 08:48 - Bing Ads and Early Revenue • 12:22 - Leveraging AI for Business Today • 13:42 - Finding Passion-Driven Problems • 15:28 - Identifying Trends and Tools • 20:15 - ChatGPT 4o for Initial Product Design Key Points • Justin shares how he validated and launched Kettle and Fire, now a nine-figure bone broth business • He used a minimal landing page, Fiverr logo, and Bing ads to test market demand before creating the product • The validation process focused on identifying if enough people wanted the product and if they would pay enough 1) The "Day Zero" validation strategy that worked: Justin wanted bone broth for his own health but couldn't find it online. Before creating anything, he asked two critical questions: • How many people actually want this? • Will they pay enough to make it a viable business? Smart validation = less risk. 2) Finding your TRUE market size: Justin didn't rely on gut feeling. He went where his potential customers hung out: • Paleo forums • CrossFit communities • Reddit threads • Mark's Daily Apple He found FANATIC engagement around bone broth recipes, sourcing, and benefits 3) The Google Trends hack Justin checked macro trends to confirm his micro observations. He wasn't looking to build a 9-figure business at 24 - just wanted to make $10K/month with his brother. Simple math: A few thousand customers spending a few hundred dollars a year = viable business. 4) The $15 MVP that ACTUALLY validated demand: • $9.99 domain ([bonebroths.com](http://bonebroths.com/)) • $5 logo from Fiverr • Basic landing page on Unbounce No product. No fancy design. Just a simple page highlighting benefits that his target audience cared about: - Healing leaky gut - Convenience - Organic ingredients 5) The GENIUS pricing strategy: Justin priced at $29.99 for 16oz - 6X MORE than grocery store broth! His thinking: "If people will pay this much for a product they've never tasted from a sketchy landing page, they REALLY want it." High price = strong signal of demand. 6) The checkout flow was HILARIOUSLY janky: "Order Now" button → Justin's personal PayPal That's it. That was the entire checkout. And guess what? PEOPLE STILL BOUGHT IT! After spending just $100 on Bing ads (yes, Bing!), he made nearly $500 in revenue. 7) The honest follow-up that built trust: After validating demand, Justin emailed every customer: "We don't have the product yet. I can either refund you in full or give you 50% off when we ship in a few weeks." Most chose the discount, giving him runway to actually create the product. 8) From validation to execution: It took 8 months to figure out production and scaling. But because he KNEW people wanted it and would pay for it, he had the confidence to push through the hard parts. 9) How would he do it TODAY with AI tools? • Better landing pages using tools like Bolt.new • Sentiment analysis across Reddit/Twitter • AI-generated product designs (as shown in the podcast) 10) The bigger lesson for aspiring founders: Focus on problems YOU care deeply about. The best ideas come from the frontier where you're already spending your time. 11) AI is LEVELING the playing field: One person with strong conviction + AI tools can now build products that previously required entire teams. 12) Want to find YOUR startup idea? Justin's advice: • Find a problem that lights you up • Circle that problem until you find interesting solutions • Validate with real customers willing to pay • Use AI to accelerate everything LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ BoringAds — ads agency that will build you profitable ad campaigns http://boringads.com/ BoringMarketing — SEO agency and tools to get your organic customers http://boringmarketing.com/ Startup Empire - a membership for builders who want to build cash-flowing businesses https://www.startupempire.co FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND JUSTIN ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://x.com/jwmares His Blog: https://justinmares.com/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  What if you can validate a startup idea without actually building it? So this episode, I chatted with Justin Mares, who built a hundred million dollar plus business called Kettle and Fire. And he walks us through how he comes up with the idea, how he figures out value props, how he uses Google Trends, how he spent fifty dollars on Google Bing Ads to actually validate demands. He walks through the entire story. And at the end, we use ChatGPT to redesign what Kettle and Fire could be, how he would build Kettle and Fire differently in 2025 with all the tools available.

• 0:41Greg Isenberg?

  This is a really interesting episode around frameworks for coming up with ideas and validating the ideas, because there's a million startup ideas you could be building, but you want to work on the right one. Enjoy the episode.

• 1:03Greg Isenberg?

  Okay, Justin, by the end of this podcast, what are people going to get out of this episode?

• 1:10Speaker 01

  By the end of the episode, people will understand the day one steps, really the day zero steps that I took to start Kettle and Fire, which is now a nine-figure annual business.

• 1:21Greg Isenberg?

  All right, let's let's jump in.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Cool, so I wrote a blog post on this that I think is worth going through. But basically, in 2014, I was sitting in my job. I was at Rackspace. And basically, I was like trying to think about, I wanted to start my own company. What do I do? I'd heard a lot about bone broth from friends at CrossFit and been reading about benefits of bone broth for skin, gut, joint health. This is at a time when basically no one was talking about bone broth, and you couldn't find any online. And so what I did is I thought a couple of things like, this is a product that I know I want. And what I didn't know was just how many people are there? Out there in the world that actually want this product? And are there enough of them?

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Or will they spend enough on the product that I can start a meaningful business? These were basically like the two main questions that that I wanted to answer. And so I thought about, okay, question one, how do I figure out like? How many people actually want this product? Is this okay? By the way, like me just kind of running into this?

• 2:24Greg Isenberg?

  This is awesome.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Okay, great. Cool. So I had I had to figure out how many people want this product? I looked at places where basically people in the paleo community, which I was one, people in the CrossFit community, like where are these people hanging out? I looked at Mark's Daily Apple, PaleoHacks, Reddit and just kind of saw how much traffic is there? How engaged are these threads, you know, on Reddit and the like that are talking about bone broth? For skin health, gut health, joint health, all these things. And when I saw that these people were like super, super engaged, they were talking about recipes. How do you source bones? How long do you cook it? All these things you're like, okay, there is a small, but like certainly like fanatic and like interested in this in this product group of people.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  And then at the like very micro in these tight knit communities that I wanted to target. And then I looked at the macro level and I was like, okay, how are? How is bone broth trending from a Google Trends standpoint? And you could see it was starting to take off more and more people were talking about bone broth. And so between those two things, you know, I figured out that like there are at least enough people, several thousand people that are interested in bone broth and looking for this product. At the time I was 24 years old. I was not looking to start a nine figure business, which it is today. I was literally looking at like, can my brother and I start a business that pays us each 10 grand a month? And, you know, if we could get to a $200,000 a year business, probably we could get around 10 grand

• 3:52Speaker 01

  a month and profit from that. You only need a couple of thousand customers to do that, spending, you know, a couple hundred dollars a year each. So question one figured was answered. Any questions on that so far?

• 4:04Greg Isenberg?

  What do you say to people who say the best businesses aren't started by looking at something like Google Trends? You have to go out there in the world and just fix your own problem. What do you what do you say to those people?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I think that's I think that's totally true. And to be clear, like I was fixing my own problem. I wanted bone broth. This was like, I was talking to people in my CrossFit community. I was looking to start a business. It was a product that I wanted to help with my own gut, skin and joint health. This was not like. A random thing, I'm looking for any, you know, any sign of life on Google Trends. This was like literally a product I wanted that people that I respected in a space that I cared about, was passionate about, were talking about. Then I just used Google Trends to validate that this would be a decent business as opposed to just like just inside project or something like this that doesn't actually go anywhere.

• 4:53Greg Isenberg?

  If, if you went to Google Trends and there was, you know, no sign of life, do you think you would have ended up starting the business?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  If, if I had gone to Google Trends, there was no sign of life and I had done this next step, which I'll talk about, and it didn't work, I would not have started the business.

• 5:10Greg Isenberg?

  Quick break in the pod to tell you a little bit about Startup Empire. So Startup Empire is my private membership where it's a bunch of people like me, like you, who want to build out their startup ideas. Now they're looking for content to help accelerate that. They're looking for potential co-founders. They're looking for tutorials from people like me to come in and tell them, how do you do email marketing? How do you build an audience? How do you go viral on Twitter? All these different things. That's exactly what Startup Empire is. And it's for people who want to start a startup but are looking for ideas, or it's for people who have a startup, but just they're not seeing the traction that they need.

• 5:55Greg Isenberg?

  So you can check out the link to startupempire.co in the description. Cool, let's talk about the next step.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the next step that I had was like, what I think is the biggest one is, will people pay enough to make this a meaningful business? So I bought the cheapest domain name I could find that had bone broth in the name, bonebroths.com. And I had the genius idea to name it bonebrothco, which is like embarrassing in retrospect. You know, so we still have, the name still haunts me, I still have the bonebroths.com domain name. And what I did from there, spent $9.99 on the domain. I then went to Fiverr. Now you could get AI to do a way better logo than this, but I went to Fiverr and had Paid five bucks for someone to develop this like god awful logo.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  And and some renders and I basically put this all on a landing page. That looked like this. I used unbounce. Again, you could use AI to build something way better than this. These were like the tools in 2015. And so I used AI to build this this thing and I was like, okay. I looked at paleo forums. What are the things that people care about? They were interested in healing leaky gut. That was a big thing in paleo at the time. They were focused on convenience. You know, you have to cook bone broth for 24 to 48 hours to get all the nutrient density out of it. So talked about that, like this is way more convenient than making it at home. And then we use only organic ingredients and we talked about, you know, the health benefits, 100% grass fed, grass fed,

• 7:28Speaker 01

  grass fed, grass finished bones and the like. So this was the landing page. That was the horrible, horrible thing. And so what what I did is after I had that landing page is I set a price. I had no idea how to make bone broth. I had no idea how we would go about this, but I figured that I could easily sell bone broth at a profit if I charged 29.99 for 16 ounces. If you go to the grocery store, broth in stock is selling for like five duck, five bucks for like 16 ounces. And so I was like, great. If I can charge six times more, I'm pretty positive I can figure out how to make the economics work. And it's a very, very good sign that if people are willing to spend 30 bucks on a product they've never heard, tasted, smelled, whatever, that doesn't exist on a landing page that looks like it was a scam.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  That is probably a pretty good sign that this is a thing that people really, really want. And so what I did is this landing page, when you hit order bone broth now, what that did is that took you to my personal PayPal where you would send me JW bears a like 29.99 purchase on PayPal. And as soon as people did that, uh, yeah, so this was literally the flow for someone coming to the website was someone would end up on the site, hit order now, and then get prompted to send money to my personal email address. And so after I got After spending about a hundred dollars on Bing ads, because Bing was cheaper than AdWords,

• 8:55Speaker 01

  we saw that people are actually like paying me money. Like you can see, you know, April 12th, someone paid, April 15th, someone paid, April 20th, someone paid, April 21st, someone paid. Like, these are very, very small, small dollar amounts, but I had a tiny advertising budget because, you know, I just, that's, that's, that's what I was doing. And so even without a product with a super sketchy checkout flow, people were actually converting. And so this, after the entire test was over, we had about a 30% conversion rate where people ended up clicking the order now button. And so, over the course of the two-week test that I ran, to this janky checkout flow, to this bad landing page, made almost $500 in revenue, and I figured that on

• 9:38Speaker 01

  that $500 in revenue, I think I was spending 250 or so in ad revenue, in ads. And I, based on the conversion rate, the incredibly janky checkout flow, you know, the ad costs, all this sort of stuff, I backed into the idea that I was fairly certain that if I made a product, that we would be able to sell, you know, something on the order of like $100,000 or so per year, under this very janky flow. And so, to me, question two is answered. Like, people will actually pay for this.

• 10:10Greg Isenberg?

  The best part of the story is you use Bing.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:13Greg Isenberg?

  Like, how ghetto and sketchy Bing is.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  I was so broke.

• 10:19Greg Isenberg?

  It's perfect.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:21Greg Isenberg?

  No, but I think there's a lesson in there, right? The lesson is, you know, you were just trying to validate your thesis ultimately, right? So it didn't make a difference if it was Google or Bing.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. And so, I can also talk about the next steps here, because I think the next step is, is important too. Because at this point, had validated the macro, there's enough search volume and people, and people care about this in communities. I validated the economic and the micro piece, which is people will actually click on the order now button and PayPal me money. And then what I wanted to see is like, basically, can we actually make the product? And so the first thing that I did after validating those two things is I sent this email to every single person that had placed an order and basically just said like, hey, I'm the founder of Bone Brosco. I wanted to reach out and say I'm very excited.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  We don't have the product in stock because I'd never made it and we had no product. But I was like, either I can refund you in full today or I can give you a 50% discount and we'll ship in a few weeks is what I said. That was extraordinarily optimistic. It ended up being like eight months. But we still had people that were on the list. They're like, figured out. I'm excited to try the product whenever you do it. And so anytime a customer, everyone was happy. I was very upfront with them. Most of them decided to take the 50% off deal. You know, and the few customers that didn't, I just refunded them. And so through this entire process, this is basically like how I validated the idea for kettle and fire and made sure that this was, this was an idea that enough people cared

• 11:56Speaker 01

  about that they would actually send me money, that I think we could build a good business and do it in a way that, you know, we had people that were, that basically were paying us money for a product that didn't exist. And then it was just time, you know, it took me the next eight months to figure out how to actually make this and scale it and like all these sorts of things that go into business building. But I think that this was, this was really the start of our experience, you know, building kettle and fire.

• 12:23Greg Isenberg?

  So kettle and fire was started years ago and my question to you is it's 2025 now, a lot has changed. What would you have done differently today? You mentioned AI.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think today I probably would, I mean, the landing pages, the like, all the stuff that I made would be much better if I was doing it today. You know, you saw the landing page I used, it was terrible. The, so I think that there's improvement there. I think that there's also ways that you can use AI and other tools to quickly scrape and get a sense of like sentiment analysis across Reddit. Are people talking about on forums? What are people saying about it on Twitter? There's all these really powerful tools that didn't exist then. But I still do think fundamentally that the, that the core thing of like, try and sell a product even if it doesn't exist now, and see if

• 13:22Speaker 01

  people will give you money for it, even if it means like DMing people on Twitter, emailing friends, texting friends, like just try and get like 10 people to pay for the thing that you're, that you're trying to build and you will have, it will be massively validating and you'll very quickly understand, is this a thing that people care enough about or not?

• 13:43Greg Isenberg?

  You, you have a history of building CPG products, you know, kettle on fire, Shirley Wine. Now you're building more of a marketplace software product. Do you see, like, for the person listening who's, who's looking for startup ideas, who wants to build a business, who believes in the framework that you have, you know, is there still opportunity in CPG? Should people be focusing on software?

• 14:09Speaker 01

  I think that, I think honestly, that's such a personal question. Like, there's not really, like, the people that end up making the most money are generally not ones that are like, I want to focus on software because I want to like make the most money in the world. Like, I often think that, I often think that like, I had really, I ended up that I've had a bunch of good ideas in CPG, but that's because I'm very, very interested in the health stuff. And so like, I have consistently been early on, bone broth was early on, the keto trend was early on, the non-alcoholic stuff, all because like, I have this macro passion and interest in In just like improving human health and so and trying to solve the chronic disease crisis, which I think is the biggest problem in the country.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  I think that generally people should probably go to wherever they are like on the frontier and they're among the most interested, like top 0.1% of people interested in a topic. I think that that frontier for most people is where you end up having a lot of good ideas, is one where you're just like naturally spending a lot of time. And because you're spending a lot of time, your ideas are much more likely to be new and interesting and different than if you were just like, hey, I'm gonna find a software company, just to find a software company, you know?

• 15:28Greg Isenberg?

  I wanna, I wanna end this pod with two last questions. One is, well, the two questions are, what are the three trends that you think there's opportunity in? And then what are the three tools that, you know, you mentioned using all, you know, new types of tools now, easier than ever. What are three tools that people could use today that they might not be using?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think one of them is, there's a company called Bolt New that is like a very interesting kind of tool that you can use. I, I think that, I think if you're not trying, getting obsessed about like how to use this newest wave of AI tools and building a business, like you're just gonna get left behind. These things are so insanely powerful and it is going to change how people build and scale companies over the next one, two, five, 10 years. Like I have zeroed out about that. And so I think they're getting familiar with these different tools, like Bolt New is one, Rourke, R O R K is another one.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  And just sort of, and frankly, playing with just the frontier models, Claude, GPT, Gemini, you know, it just makes a lot of sense in my view. And becoming a like top 1% user, there's probably few things that you can do that will be as high leverage as that. From an opportunity standpoint, it's an interesting question. I, I, I think, I think the things that I am interested in right now is I like to think about like, what are the big problems in the world that have relatively few people focused on them? Or where there's more energy moving in that direction? I cared a while ago, you know, started caring like 10 plus years ago about the chronic

• 17:21Speaker 01

  disease crisis and all of this, like our food system being poisoned, all of this like health and wellness stuff. And more and more people are starting to wake up and care about this. And they're starting to wake up and care about it because it's a massive problem. Like the average American is sick. People are getting sicker. Our kids have never been sicker. Type 2 diabetes rates are going crazy. Cardiovascular, it's just everything. And so I think that generally, so often, I advise people to find a problem that really lights them up, or that they find interesting, like more interesting than than the opposite, and just kind of circle that problem for a while until you find interesting ideas that potentially solve that problem. And if if there is a problem that you're really interested in, then naturally, like if you can figure out a way to address a top, one

• 18:06Speaker 01

  of the most important problems that people have, and their health is certainly one, you can build a business that that does quite well doing that. And so I often like, that's kind of what I recommend people.

• 18:16Greg Isenberg?

  I love it, man. I love it. Simple. It's like, find something that you care about, and basically, your first product that you're gonna build might not be, you know, hit escape velocity, but if you keep kind of circling around it, I think that eventually, you'll hit something.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 18:38Greg Isenberg?

  But I think your point around, like, you need to validate, you need to validate the market, you need to understand the pain points, look at Reddit, look at community sentiment, all the data's out there, it's just about, you know, distilling it in a way. I think what you did, I don't know if you did it manually, you probably did, but on your original kettle and fire website, you had like the three, almost like problems that you're solving.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:05Greg Isenberg?

  And it was so clear, you wrote it like, you know, you wrote it like you talk, super, super plain English. I think that, you know, what you can do now with AI is you can go and sort of distill that simply, use bolt new to actually build the landing page, launch it. Like, we're talking about a startup in like a day.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Totally. I mean, if anything, I think that someone that has a big, or has like a strong opinion on a product they want to make, or a direction the world is moving. They're almost at an advantage with these AI tools relative to like a small or even medium sized team. Because if you are someone that like has a very strong opinion of like what the world should look like, you can use these tools to build that product. Whereas a team of three, team of five, team of 10 can do the same, but it requires coordinating a vision across like all of these different people. And so I basically think that the new types of, there's a whole universe of products that can now be built by like one guy in a basement using these AI tools that can be as good,

• 20:08Speaker 01

  if not better than many of the, you know, tools that have previously taken like tons of people to build.

• 20:16Greg Isenberg?

  Dude, have you been playing with the ChatGPT 4.0 image?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Not yet. It just came out today, right?

• 20:24Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm getting a bunch of texts about it, but I haven't yet.

• 20:29Greg Isenberg?

  So let's just, let's just do this for fun. I, I attached the kettle and fire product. Let's redesign that product and, and using ChatGPT 4.0 and see what happens. Like, let's see if ChatGPT can redesign this in a, in a beautiful way. If you were talking to your like chief design officer, what would you say for fun? Like, how, how would you, what, what should I prompt it?

• 20:56Speaker 01

  I'd be interested like if we wanted to make a functional beverage or a drink, like what would that look like? And how would we make it accessible and look good?

• 21:09Greg Isenberg?

  If we wanted to make it, make a functional beverage, how would we design it to make it look fresh, cool, engaging? We being were kettle and fire. And let's just see if, what happens? Because in, in your day, in your day, in our day, really, we would have to go to like Fiverr, right? And, but like, if you can create something that's high quality and it's just, by the way, I think you do need to pay $20 a month for this, but it's literally $20 a month.

• 21:53Greg Isenberg?

  It's, it's, you know, you could be testing dozens of startups a month to find that right one for you.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 22:04Greg Isenberg?

  Okay, so usually I've noticed it takes about like thirty to thirty seconds to a minute to generate these. And it's funny because when I'm watching it, I'm always like, why is it taking so long? But it's like, this is actual magic.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  I know. It reminds me of the Louis CK bit of like people complaining about airplane wifi, you know?

• 22:26Greg Isenberg?

  Right, exactly.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  We're hurtling through the sky at thirty thousand miles an hour and you're like complaining about, you know, six hundred miles an hour, whatever. You're complaining about like airplane wifi being slow.

• 22:38Greg Isenberg?

  Exactly. And by the way, we gave it like basically no, basically very little constraints, right? If we were working with a

• 22:51Greg Isenberg?

  a designer, I think we prob, like a real designer employee, we probably would be, I mean, we would have a kickoff meeting, we would have like a one pager, right?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:02Greg Isenberg?

  And I actually think that's best practices for, for a lot of that is, you know, create, like I, I do find that a lot of these AI models work better when you do give it a bit more constraint.

• 23:16Greg Isenberg?

  So we're getting some, it's, it's starting to load. And you can see that it took the image and it's making it look like the same, right? It doesn't look like in the image I gave, it's a non 3D image, basically.

• 23:32Greg Isenberg?

  But what do you, what do you think so far?

• 23:36Speaker 01

  I mean, this is, it's pretty wild. I haven't played with this at all. This is amazing.

• 23:44Greg Isenberg?

  Right? Ten grams of protein collagen, I don't know if that's accurate.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:53Greg Isenberg?

  And it's like, it's cool. It's definitely cool.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally, man. This is so cool.

• 24:02Greg Isenberg?

  So how does this change how people build CPG products?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I think that there's all of these barriers to building CPG brands. It's basically like, can you make the product? Can you design it? Can you build a good brand? Can you market it well? And I think that the barriers are just more and more coming down. Like, this is great design. You know, my day, we paid an agency, I think, 60 grand to come up with this vibe and look and all these sorts of things. Maybe if that collapses to $200 a month, you know what I mean? Like, all of a sudden, it's a different kind of thing.

• 24:43Greg Isenberg?

  Totally. Look at the functional beverage logo coming on right now.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:48Greg Isenberg?

  Pretty fire. People in the comment section are gonna love it or hate it, but...

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:55Greg Isenberg?

  Like, this is one prompt. Like, we one-prompted a whole new product line.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Wow. It's crazy.

• 25:05Greg Isenberg?

  So, it's not fully loaded, but you get the idea. Justin, thanks so much for coming on the show. I'll include where people can find you in the show notes if they want to follow you for more, but is there anything else you want to leave people with?

• 25:22Speaker 01

  No, I just want to say, thanks for having me on. I'm super excited to chat about this and, yeah, I love it.

• 25:29Greg Isenberg?

  All right, my man, I'll see you around.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  All right, thank you.