Making $$$ with OpenClaw

I sit down with Nick Vasilescu, founder of Orgo, to break down exactly how people are turning OpenClaw — the open-source computer use agent — into a real revenue stream. Nick walks me through live demos of deploying OpenClaw for business clients, shows how sub-agents and parallelization multiply output, and shares his design-thinking framework for identifying and automating high-value workflows. We even build a TikTok trend-hunting agent from scratch during the episode to prove how fast you can go from idea to working prototype. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 02:50 – Getting Set Up with OpenClaw 05:02 – Finding the Wedge: Automating Real Business Outcomes 07:39 – The Upwork Hack: Finding Paid Automation Jobs 09:41 – Andreessen Horowitz on Computer Use Agents 11:01 – Setting Up a Client Workspace in Minutes 12:41 – Design Thinking: Mapping Value vs. Effort 15:23 – Using OpenClaw to Prioritize Automations 17:57 – Building Automation Pipelines with Claude Code 19:33 – Sub-Agents vs. Tasks vs. Skills 23:22 – Automation Possibilities are huge 24:54 – Live Build: TikTok Trend Hunter from Idea Browser 32:09 – Start with an MVP Skill, Then Iterate 32:41 – Architecture of the TikTok Agent Script 36:59 – The Arbitrage Opportunity: Most Businesses Still Need Help 40:30 – Agents Are the New SaaS 42:42 – Demoing TikTok Trend Hunter 44:11 – Building Assets & the Abundance AI Will Bring 47:58 – Closing Advice: Get Your Hands Dirty Links Mentioned: Orgo: https://startup-ideas-pod.link/orgo Key Points OpenClaw is more than a personal assistant — it is a deployable business tool that can automate end-to-end workflows for paying clients. The fastest path to revenue is finding automation jobs on Upwork (RPA, desktop automation, workflow building) and fulfilling them with OpenClaw and Claude Code. Sub-agents allow your main OpenClaw instance to delegate specialized tasks, keeping the orchestrator free and multiplying throughput through parallelization. A design-thinking approach — mapping automation opportunities by value vs. effort — is essential before building anything. Verticalizing computer use agents for a specific industry (manufacturing, real estate, distributorships) is the major startup opportunity Andreessen Horowitz is calling out. Always start by building a lightweight MVP skill, test it, debug, and iterate before scaling. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: https://www.thevibemarketer.com/ FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND NICK ON SOCIAL Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@nickvasiles Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickvasilescu/ Personal Website: https://www.nickvasilescu.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  How can you make money from OpenClaw? Like, how can you spin up these OpenClaw instances, these subagents, these digital employees that can go out and make you money while you sleep? Is it even possible? Well, in today's episode, I brought on Nick and he shows a tactical tutorial for how to spin up multiple OpenClaw machines in a virtual instance, how you can be automating tasks on Upwork and these boring business automations, and how you can actually make money from OpenClaw. If this doesn't get your creative juices flowing for the future of SaaS, how people are going to make money, and how to actually use OpenClaw from not just cute little use cases,

• 0:42Greg Isenberg?

  but actually money-making opportunities, then I don't know what will. I had such a good chat with Nick. It got my creative juices flowing. I think it will yours too. And this is, I think, one of Nick's first podcasts. So give him a like and comment to juice him up because he shared that sauce.

• 1:09Greg Isenberg?

  I couldn't be more excited to have Nick on the pod. He's one of my go-to people when I have questions about OpenClaw. Nick, by the end of this episode, what are people going to learn?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, people are going to learn that OpenClaw is more than just a personal assistant. You can actually deploy this into businesses. You could drive actual business outcomes, generate revenue off of OpenClaw as an opportunity. And yeah, we're seeing it on X, like people who are deploying OpenClaw for kind of executives or individuals who are super busy. They're making thousands of dollars, you know, setting OpenClaw up, getting it up and running for these people and managing it for them. So I think there's a huge opportunity here. And yeah, just excited to jump in.

• 1:57Greg Isenberg?

  Cool. And before we get going, I need you to make a commitment to me and to the person listening or watching, which is I need you not to hold back any sauce. I don't want to know just about the opportunity. I want to know how are people doing it tactically? And by the end of this episode, what I want is for people to take away, like, I want people to know how they can actually make a dollar from this. And is that a commitment, Nick, that you are willing to make to us?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. I'm not going to hold back anything. I've, in fact, I think OpenClaw is a tool that allows us to be able to do the things that we have always been able to make money from, like automation with AI, but do it even better. And I'm going to show you how to get it all set up so you can do that and the wedge to get going. So.

• 2:46Greg Isenberg?

  Let's do it.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I guess, jumping right in, as far as like getting set up with OpenClaw, you can see here, you know, this is Orgo, this is our startup. You don't have to use Orgo to get started with OpenClaw. Just full disclaimer, this is what I'm using. And what I'm going to do is I have a project here. You can see I have a couple, a couple of projects and I have Greg, I set you up a project. I hope, I hope you enjoy your, you know, five computers.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  And so you can imagine, Greg, you, let's say you're a business owner and you have a busy life, you know, you got all, you have the podcast going on, you have all these businesses you're running, the agency, the idea browser, all this stuff. And you need, you need help automating some stuff. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to come in, I'm scrappy Nick, I'm going to come in and I'm going to help automate some things in your, in your business, in your life, you know, as a busy executive, and I'm going to get you set up with OpenClaw. So when you open up a computer here, you can see I have it open. This is the Claude Bot computer I made for you. If I actually just type in OpenClaw TUI, this will open up OpenClaw

• 3:57Speaker 01

  in the terminal. And you can see I actually already started like, hey, I'm Greg Isenberg, and it's all ready to get set up. And so actually what I Could do is I could invite you to this project and then you'd be able to do this as well. Like in your terminal, you'd be able to spin this up and now you're talking to OpenClaw. So, um, super easy to get set up. Once again, you don't have to use Orgo. You could use whatever you want. You could use, I know Manus just dropped their, uh, their own version of like one-click deployment OpenClaw. Also, Kimmy launched their version as well. X is down right now, so we can't actually pull it up on Twitter or anything, but, uh, Kimmy launched their version. And so, uh, there's all these options as far as getting started. You could use a Mac mini, whatever.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  So, the key here Greg with OpenClaw and actually creating money from it is to have the wedge to know what is the specific use case in a person's business that we're going to automate like first because for, uh, when, when you see OpenClaw on Twitter, it's very much a personal assistant. It's exciting. It's fun. But all the demos that go viral, including me, I get it. I, I'm, I'm guilty of this too. All the, all the demos that go viral are a little bit, you know, kind of toyish. They're a little flashy. But the, the real power is in finding the thing that actually, you know, drives business outcomes, saves time for a business.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Finding that and, and building the automation around that. So, I have something running here. This is my OpenClaw doing, looking up products for a, a business that I, uh, deployed for, this is a promotional distributorship. And what this is doing is it's looking up products and actually downloading all the product information. And then like parsing all that information. There's all these reports it needs to download. And then uploading that into a Zoho CRM, um, so it can essentially, you know, create a central source of truth for this client. So this is a perfect example here of like,

• 6:03Speaker 01

  actually creating a agent that OpenClaw deploys to be able to automate something end to end.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So just, just to recap, are we all good so far?

• 6:16Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, so a few things I just want to talk about. So one thing is when you showed you know, that Orgo screen, you had like five machines running. So what's interesting is, you know, I've got my Mac Mini going, you know, I've got one instance. So using something like this is cool because you can have multiple instances going, right? And you can see them all in one screen in one view. So that's really cool. That was sort of an aha moment for me.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's like everyone, you know, as far as where you deploy your your main open, like you can see here, I like I starred the main one. And so that's like you could have that wherever. But what people don't realize is open claw can spawn subagents. And I think this is going to be huge for people who start like right now, we're at the phase of having one open claw. It's going to happen quickly. You're already seeing on it on Twitter memes about like, oh, what if you have a 10 Mac Minis or all the Mac Studios are being bought out. So this is happening fast where you're going to want 10 open claws, you know, 100 open claws. Right now, you could have one open claw and just have it spawn up to, I think,

• 7:26Speaker 01

  eight subagents. And each subagent could have its own computer. And you could do this like this is why this is like, kind of where Orgo shines is you can spin up multiple computers for, you know, each individual subagent of your open claw. And in this case here, I had it looking on Upwork for actual things that we could automate with open claws is like a little hack here. As far as like, well, I want to make money with open claw. Well, oh, I don't know any, any business that I could reach out to that could automate stuff for a great place to start is Upwork, because there's jobs on Upwork that are literally posted. They're asking you, they're like, I want to pay 500,000, 1500, 3000, $20,000 for this AI workload. And you can, I spawned

• 8:09Speaker 01

  it went viral on Twitter. I spawned subagents to go find all these jobs and then build out little demos for each of them. And then we picked the best one. And okay, let's, let's apply for that proposal with that. So that's a little tidbit there on Upwork and all of that.

• 8:24Greg Isenberg?

  So which is, it's just kind of hilarious because I mean, Upwork. You know, is designed for human beings to complete work, right? It's not designed for machines, let alone multiple machines to complete work.

• 8:38Greg Isenberg?

  But I mean, as long as the quality of work is good.

• 8:42Greg Isenberg?

  You know, customers can be happy, right?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think like it's good to, you know, it's good to treat it as a, as a starting point. Like, you know, if you can save time preparing a proposal for a job on Upwork, it's like, what is that worth, you know? And if you could do just a hundred X volume, what is that worth? So there's a couple of things on that of like the parallelization of work with open clause. So there's like, could you have 10 open clause working on a given task? And it breaks up that tasks into 10 subtasks. And so each open clause does one of those subtasks. That's one way of having parallelization. But another way is to have 10 open clause working on the same task. Just 10 different instances of it. And that was kind of like what I was doing here.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  It's, you know, four different instances of the one open clause, you know, or four different open clause, doing the same thing of looking up different jobs on Upwork that they could apply to. So that's kind of an interesting topic there.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  But yeah, so like as far as open clause goes, it's, it's, it's a huge opportunity. I just want to like throw this in here. Andreessen Horowitz talks about computer use agents. I view open clause as a computer use agent. You know, you're giving an agent a computer and it's able to do, it's able to use that computer. It's like, it's a computer use agent, but that's half the story. The other half of the story is for it to be able to like click around, actually operate a graphical user interface on like legacy softwares and systems. And so you can imagine like, you know, in here, this, this automation I built, this is navigating a legacy platform for this client that doesn't have any clean APIs

• 10:23Speaker 01

  and it's able to click in, download reports and actually, you know, be the universal API to be able to solve problems that you couldn't previously solve without computer use agents. So I think there's a huge opportunity here and Andreessen Horowitz, they talk about it. And they say, we believe that the properly, to properly verticalize computer use agents and assist companies in adopting it will be a major area of exploration for startups. And this is like this, to me, this screams OpenClaw. You know, can you create a vertical use case for OpenClaw for a business? And actually assist that company in adopting it? I think that's, that's the huge opportunity here.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  So going back to this like workspace we have set up for you. You know, with, with, with all the people setting up OpenClaw, you could set it up as easy as, you know, I invite Greg to this workspace. I create him a new computer. We could just do it now. OpenClaw 2.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I select how much RAM. Let's do, let's do eight gigs. Launch that.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Open that up. And then all we need now to get you set up is to get the, um, let me get the, the curl command for OpenClaw. I copy that from their website. And then as this computer loads, we'll be able to then literally just paste it into the terminal. And once I see the interface pop up. Boom. Okay. So now I'm going to hit enter. And now we're off to the races installing OpenClaw. So like, it's as easy as that. And I think there's, this, this in and of itself is like a workspace where you can invite people and get them set up with OpenClaw or Claude code. I think this is like

• 12:10Speaker 01

  a huge, a huge opportunity as well of like, just, there, there are executives right now that are like reaching out to me. Like law firms, insurance companies, they're like, can you, can I just like pay you to teach me how to use this stuff? So like, that's its own whole thing as well. As far as like, if you're savvy enough to even know how to install OpenClaw and get it set up in the first place. I just think there's a huge opportunity around like just helping executives, businesses, adopt it.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  So yeah, you can see it's as easy as this to get set up. And then as far as like, what specific things can we, can we automate with OpenClaw? There's a couple, it, it, it takes a little bit of a design thinking approach. So when you go into a business, let's say you find a project on Upwork and you wanna, you wanna automate that with OpenClaw. Let's say you go into a business and you're talking to the executive, the decision maker, and it's clear that they have things that need to be automated. Well, as far as like design thinking goes, like you need to have a, a clear way of like first mapping, like all the different possibilities. You can see here, this is something I did in the past of like, there's all these different things that you could automate,

• 13:21Speaker 01

  and you wanna map them off two very simple metrics. What is the value that we can create by automating this thing? And what's the relative effort, cost and time? And so we ultimately wanna start with, okay, we wanna automate things with OpenClaw that are high value and low effort, cost and time. And that's like your, your, your low hanging fruit.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  And so you start there. And so like for, for this client, this was like that, this was that. This was like, okay, we're looking at products on this website. We're downloading them, we're parsing all the information. That's the low hanging fruit. So start with the design thinking approach of like, okay,

• 14:00Speaker 01

  simplest, fastest to deploy. And then you need to map out like the systems design around how, like, how is this thing going to be automated, right? So for this, for this client, she's like, okay, I send an email to, to a client of hers, right? She sends an email to a client and she has a, a presentation link with all these products. Okay, and, and all those products, she needs to look at all of them up and get all the information on them, and then upload them into Zoho. So then your next step after identifying the opportunity is to literally like map this out, I use Figma, you can use whatever, but map out the, the actual workflow process of like, okay, step one, step two, step three. What is this automation gonna look like tip to tail?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  So that we can do the whole thing. Because with OpenClaw and computer use, now is, now you can do that. You can do, you could do things from tip to tail. It's not like, um, you know, it used to be where you'd have to like, go into a website and click a button, and then it'd be able to do some 50% of the whole thing, but then you'd have to copy that and paste that somewhere else and do it on your own. Like, we can do it tip to tail.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  So, quick recap. Install OpenClaw to a computer, identify the next, identify the low hanging fruit opportunities, the highest value opportunities, and then begin to map out what that even looks like to begin with.

• 15:23Greg Isenberg?

  Couldn't you, you know, sort of, this is meta, but couldn't you use OpenClaw to actually do some of the prioritization on the automations and actually, I mean, you as a human being did the Figma, but couldn't you actually just use the OpenClaw or Claude code or something like that to, to help you with that? So for example, like if you go back to the Figma,

• 15:50Greg Isenberg?

  like you could walk into a business and basically say, hey, I want to figure out what we can automate here. And you do customer interviews with different people on the team. You record those customer interviews. You get the transcripts, you upload the transcripts, and then you say, hey, based on that, then you're like, you can actually say, you know, you give this as a reference image. Basically say like, hey, I want to figure out which automation opportunities have the highest amount of value, lowest amount of effort, cost and time. Give me the top three and then create, you know, Figma. And I think there's like a Figma MCP even

• 16:32Greg Isenberg?

  that you can use and you can say like, hey, like, can you map this thing out based on these customer transcripts? Does that make, does that make sense? Or am I?

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's the way to do it. Like I, whenever I do any kind of call with a client or cut like potential customer, oh my gosh, Gemini for, for Google Meet is amazing. You have it take, take all the notes and then actually that's, that's how I even got, because I don't know about, I don't know about you, Greg, but sometimes when you're in these calls, you kind of, you know, this, this industry, you know, you're in a new industry, you're helping this customer, you don't understand the domain expertise, the lingo. And so you gotta go back and like, okay, like what was it that they said? And so have the granola or Gemini notes or whatever, and then literally ask it to like, okay,

• 17:19Speaker 01

  what's the step by step workflow and then map it out. It just helps me to map it out visually. But you could literally ask it, yeah, like you said, based on this transcript, what is the, the automation workflow look like, you know, step by step?

• 17:33Greg Isenberg?

  And if you don't want to use, you know, Figma, you can also even say, Uh, you know, do output in Mermaid code and then you can use the Mermaid code and insert that into an Excalidraw or a TL draw or something like that. So a little pro tip there.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Nice, nice. Yeah. Yeah. And the, yeah. And the Figma MCP is pretty cool, too. Yeah. Definitely check that out. So, yeah. So then, once you figure out what the workflow is, right? Um, this is where like, you have to actually, um, be able to know, okay, how much, how much can I really ask? Like, how much can I just say like to OpenClaw right now, hey, like build this, like, hey, build this thing? And you just describe the workflow versus genuinely using something like Claude code to build out like what that workflow would look like with, you know, Python APIs, a genuine automation pipeline and process

• 18:32Speaker 01

  that your OpenClaw can actually just trigger upon, um, whenever it's like contextually relevant. So for instance, this, this whole pipeline here of like going to these websites, looking at this product information, downloading the information, parsing it, uploading it to Zoho, the trigger of all of that is, uh, you know, the OpenClaw being CC'd in an email and it's seeing that email, it has a link that is relevant for this type of workflow to be triggered. So that, that is like the thing, that's like the listening event that OpenClaw can do with like a cron job that it sets up to just like, okay, listen for this trigger. And then, once that trigger starts, it can then activate the whole Python

• 19:15Speaker 01

  script workflow automation, everything that you would need downstream of that. So you're not relying too much on OpenClaw's like, um, abilities in and of itself. You're more so creating specialized AI workers under each, uh, underneath the OpenClaw that it can call individually, if that makes sense.

• 19:34Greg Isenberg?

  You know, you talked earlier about subagents. I think a lot of people are confused about what is a subagent versus a task and stuff like that. Can you just clearly explain that?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, so subagents are, um, I, I, I, there's a couple of ways to view them, right? So like in the context of, because they're, the, and the reason I say there's a couple of ways to view them is because there's a couple of ways of using them. So in the context of like OpenClaw, you can ask it to spin up five research subagents that all go and research some given task. And, and like, and you know, like I said earlier, you could, you could have it parallelize that task across, you know, splitting it up across each subagent or having each subagent actually go and do the same task, you know, across five different instances. But the next thing around subagents is that you can actually, like you said, maybe think of them in terms of skills. So if you're familiar with anthropic skills,

• 20:32Speaker 01

  you can have like these specialized instructions and rules along with actual code that you can provide to your agent for it to be able to go and do a given task. And this is really nice because it, you know, it gives you a very more

• 20:50Speaker 01

  a very more powerful general purpose agent that can do many of your specific nuanced tasks across various domains. But the thing is, it's like, I want my general agent to be freed up and to more so just be the orchestrator. And what if the, the general agent, this one, right? The, the one I have start here can just call a subagent like worker number four here to do a given skill that you have created. So if your skill is that it goes on Twitter and finds the most viral ideas and it bookmarks them. Rather than having your main agent do that, and now you can't talk to your main agent for the next 20 minutes because it's working on that. Can it call that skill into a subagent and have the subagent do that?

• 21:35Speaker 01

  That I think is where things get really interesting and, and in terms of the context of like deploying OpenClaws for businesses. I would think of everything that you have in terms of an AI automation opportunity around workflows, skills, tasks, et cetera. I would actually just create that as its own, like specific subagent with its own skill that, that your open claw could then call. If that, does that make sense?

• 22:03Greg Isenberg?

  It does, it does.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 22:05Greg Isenberg?

  It's, it's, you know, I think the, the basic idea is like, you know, in layman's terms, it's, as soon as you have your, um, your open claw instance, you know, do something, they're busy, you know? It's like they got a, they've got a mug of hot coffee. And so, and your, your job is you want to leverage this as much as possible. So you don't want, you know, your agent to hold a, a hot coffee. So if, if you ask it to do, to move this desk into this area, you know, it, it says, no, I'm holding a cup of hot coffee. I can't do that. So what subagents do is it basically creates leverage for your open claw.

• 22:51Greg Isenberg?

  And it basically says like, okay, um, you're going to create a set of subagents who are going to be good at XYZ thing. And that way it frees up your, your main agent to, to, you know, as you say, orchestrate, to basically be the manager of the subagents. Uh, and you know, what that could mean is, uh, like looking at, um, quality of work, it can mean, uh, checking for certain things and stuff like that.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. I think that's going to be huge, you know? When, when you start working with these businesses and, and customers who want things to be automated, once you show them what's possible, their eyes light up, they get all these ideas themselves. These are high agency people, you know, they, they come up with creative ideas that they want to start implementing. And, and then what you realize is there's just a huge, a huge list of things that can be automated and they're excited about that. And, and so actually like the, the ability to, okay, first solve a vertical specific workflow for, for a customer. And then that opening up their mind and then them being like, oh, I wonder if I could, could I text this thing and it does this? This is kind of where like the whole open claw moment,

• 24:05Speaker 01

  um, is really powerful. It's like, it's, it's the, it's the, it's the assistant like capability. It's the, you know, I have it, I have it here. It's like, what, a lot of people might get confused about, why is it that open claw is so special? It's, it's the ability that, that has its own computer. It's running 24/7. You can text it. And you can schedule tasks. And really, if we just removed open claw from this card here, and you just called this a really good employee, it would just make sense to be like, oh, works 24/7, can code, can schedule tasks, I can text it, and they have their own computer. So I think that's like, kind of why open claw is exciting for a lot of people. And if it's not,

• 24:47Speaker 01

  you know, if some people think it's overhyped, you have to kind of look at the whole picture, I think. And then you're able to really gauge it.

• 24:54Greg Isenberg?

  So I'm certainly bought in on this, on this idea that, you know, it could potentially, it could be a really good employee. I think there's also cases where people aren't setting up their open claw in the right way, where it ends up being a bad employee. And I think, you know, that's sort of like, the, the issue with that is, you know, sometimes you have a bad employee because the manager, the coach essentially is not doing a good job at giving the right context at the right time. So I think, you know, do you have any tips and tricks around, besides spinning up subagents, like, how, how could people listening to this, if they want to go after

• 25:34Greg Isenberg?

  this opportunity of essentially verticalize, you know, open claws and automating some of these flows, how could people actually, you know, take their open claw from a bad employee to a good employee?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it comes down to, let's, maybe we should walk through. So I know you have, I was actually looking at this, so Idea Browser. So for everyone, if you don't know, Greg has this amazing product, Idea Browser. And I love this trend, this idea today, TikTok trend tool that catches viral waves before they peak. So I was actually looking at this this morning. I was like, wow, this is actually something that you can maybe turn into a skill for an open claw, to create a specialized skill around this. So let's just do a live, let's see. I genuinely don't know, how far can we get? Can we build this out now? Let's see if I copy all of that. And now I'm hearing the open claw that we set up for you.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  And you can see it just got set up. It's, I just told it, hey, I'm Greg Isenberg. So we're getting started. That's it. And let's just say, I want to build a, a specialized skill to be able to do the following. And I'm just gonna paste that entire idea browser idea. And I'm going to ask it as far as like creating these automations, creating workflows or doing anything with open claw. My number one tip is always ask it to ask you questions. So what do you need from me to be able to build this out?

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Let's create a plan. And so a lot of people need to remember open clause is like a almost a little bit of a wrapper around like Claude code in a way. So let's see. Okay, cool. This is a big vision, Greg. I like it. Let's break down a realistic build as an open claw skill. So now it's saying, okay, I need data access. I need the scope. I need the niche focus. That'll shape what we build a lean skill. So the first thing that we can maybe do is here in like Orgo, we have this playground mode.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  And you can ask the playground agent here to do things in this computer and this this computer environment. So one thing I might test first is like, can we get? Can we get this agent to even just spin up Tik Tok? And just scroll Tik Tok and identify what is on the for you page Tik Tok. So let's like maybe start there. Does that sound good?

• 28:18Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Let's do that. Open Firefox. Go to Tik Tok. Scroll, I'm gonna say scroll Tik Tok looking for what the most common videos are on the for you page. Give me a summary. So let's see how it's able to do this.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  So this is using our our playground mode. And boom, opens up Firefox.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  It's gonna go to Tik Tok. And for those listening, I'm just gonna talk through a little bit about what this agent in our our playground is doing. It's visually interacting with the screen. It's clicking into Firefox. It's opening up the browser. Now it's typing in tiktok.com. It's going there.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And let's see.

• 29:20Greg Isenberg?

  This is always such a magical experience, just watching a computer navigate the web like a human being.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  It's amazing. You know, this is, yeah, there it goes. It's on, it's on, it's on the homepage. And now it's gonna, it's gonna actually scroll TikTok. It's gonna probably take a screenshot of this, get the context of, based off that screenshot of what the video is about. You could even see it has hashtags, movie hashtag for you page. So it's going to be able to infer a lot of things. Boom, it scrolls, it scrolls, it gets a pop up, it's going to close out the pop up.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  But on your point, Greg, Dario Ombide, the CEO of Anthropic, he just had a podcast with Dora Keshe, and it came out a couple of days ago. And you know what's really interesting, what he said in that, in that, in that podcast? He said, he said, this idea of his around this data center full of brilliant, you know, scientists and Nobel Prize winners, essentially his concept of what AGI will be like. He says the constraint to getting there is computer use agents, the ability to have an AI that can operate a computer like you and I can, but better, you know, interact with the visual interface, also be able to do things under the hood, kind of like Claude code.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  This is the constraint, he said. And

• 30:47Speaker 01

  I mean, it makes perfect sense. If it can do anything that you and I can do on a computer, that seems like it can go pretty far. Open Claw is like a chat GPT moment, I think, for, for this kind of idea of computer use. And, and, and as far as like building these computer use agents out, you can see, this is, this is clearly working. So we know this is possible. You can build, a lot of people might get confused with Orgo when they come to our site, they see computers for agents. And like, what does that mean? Well, I think they get it now. It's like, okay, you want your Claude bot to have its own computer. But also, we provide, and I'll show the We provide the doc in our docs, like we're actually provide the programmatic APIs.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  So you can create custom computer use agents that do a given task very well. So you can bring any model, you can get Kimi 2.5 is like the super cheap. You know, Chinese model, it's very good at computer use. And you can give it the ability to click, drag, scroll, type in the keyboard, spin up a computer. And you could create specialized, really fast, performance, low cost, computer use agents. Using our docs. And I just say that to say like, as far as, you know, this, this thing that we're doing here, creating a skill around scrolling Tik Tok. I think that's how we can, we can actually give it a shot is let's just, we see this is working now. Let me just grab the Orgo docs and let's start building this skill out.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  If you didn't see here, I'm at the Orgo docs, I clicked this thing called. L L M S full dot T X T. This is like all the instructions for the L L M to be able to build on top of Orgo.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  And what I'm going to do is I'm going to wait for. I have to probably, I'm going to wait for this to finish this, its task, and then I'll be able to tell it.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  But while this goes, Greg, you have any thoughts?

• 32:42Greg Isenberg?

  Well, just, you know, sort of a thing I was thinking about is it sounds like when, whenever you're trying to.

• 32:49Greg Isenberg?

  You know, do a new automation, you start by thinking about what is a lightweight skill that I should create? Is that correct?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. What's the MVP?

• 33:00Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. So you start with like a lightweight skill.

• 33:05Greg Isenberg?

  You test it and then from there, you're probably like, hey, here's what went wrong. Here's what could be better, that sort of thing.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. Just fine tuning, you know, debug, like.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  I think the design thinking process around all of this is super important of like, okay. If I want to build a car. Maybe the first thing I do isn't to build the frame of the car or, you know, to build. You know, the whole body of a car, that's not the first, the first thing I should do if I want to build a car. Well, why do I want to build a car? Well, I want to build a car to go from point A to point B. Oh, okay. So really, maybe I should start by building a skateboard. How can we accomplish the task to get the get the dream out, the dream outcome? And and sometimes that means like, starting with something that's completely different than

• 34:01Speaker 01

  the end state. So this is done here. I think it interrupted itself, probably a context thing. But now we can actually, what we can do, this is all live. So you're seeing this in real time. You can literally, there's a couple of ways to go about this. You can actually install Claude code into this computer and have it build out the automation in here, or we can just ask this agent to do it for us. So let's see. I want to build a computer use agent that does this

• 34:35Speaker 01

  exact thing, but more programmatically, using the Orgo API docs. And I paste that here. What do we need to get started? And we send that off. All right, here we go. So we need an Orgo API key. Here's the architecture of what we'll build. Okay, this looks good. Orgo key, Anthropic key. It has all the code here. Cool. You're looking at a TikTok video extract, the username, video description, the category, the appropriate like count. Boom, boom, boom. Okay, cool. So I have

• 35:19Speaker 01

  all these things already. And don't worry, I'm going to delete these keys. I'm not worried about leaking or anything. I'm going to copy my Orgo API key. I'm going to paste it in there. And I'm going to say Orgo API key. I also have my Anthropic key. Let me grab that. I'm going to paste that here. Can we build this out? And so now we're going to have our playground mode build out this computer use agent to be able to go do this thing that we just tested out. We know it works. We know we can do it. Let's turn it into something that could be more programmatic, kind of like a skill. And let's give it to Claude Bot, so it always has access to it.

• 35:58Greg Isenberg?

  The dream.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  It's literally any idea you have, you can just build it.

• 36:09Greg Isenberg?

  And that's sort of the arbitrage opportunity, right? Especially like in our world, of course, like we're so used to this now, even though it's only been like two months. But you know, the opportunity is the vast majority of people on this planet and businesses would love to have better automation and would love to, you know, have computer use agents working for them, AKA really good employees working for them. But they don't know how. And so I think that which is which is cool that you're like, you're showing us like some of the best practices on how to do it.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Exactly. And, and I think this is also like, I can, I can imagine, you know, the, the whole audience of this podcast, we're all pretty tech savvy. We know how to do things like vibe code and, and, and, you know, play around with Claude code and be able to do these things. And we take it for granted in terms of what that value is worth.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  As far as like open claw and the opportunity around that, I mean, open claw started going viral on Twitter around two to three weeks ago. Only now is it starting, and I'm starting to see it's starting to go viral on Tik Tok a little more mainstream. So, um, yeah, I just mean, you know, people are catching on and a lot of people still need help with getting, you know, up and running on this type of stuff. And what you might think is, oh, I mean, I have a basic understanding of open claw and Claude bot and Claude code. And you might under, underwrite that a lot of people find that valuable. So being able to help businesses adopt it or just people in general, I think it's a super good opportunity.

• 37:53Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I think my only advice for people would be to.

• 37:59Greg Isenberg?

  Focus, like, don't be everything to everyone. Like, don't, don't help any, every business. Help real estate agents, for example. Or like, pick a vertical that maybe you have some unfair advantage for some particular reason. And that unfair advantage doesn't necessarily mean you have 20 years of experience. It might mean just that, you know, you want to build something for real estate agents because your mom was a real, a real estate agent. So you, you know, you know, the customer, right?

• 38:31Greg Isenberg?

  So I think that's, that's the way to do, to do this.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yeah. It's, it's, um, whatever you know, that's your advantage. And I mean, I guess as far as like some, maybe, this doesn't apply to everyone. Obviously, if you're in this industry, then go for it. But like, you know, probably things to avoid, things that I have a lot of like red tape, like healthcare, finance, you know, I recommend maybe starting something. Yeah, like you said, um, you know, you could do even manufacturing or, or, uh, there's a lot of distributorships out there who's, you know, they distribute merchandise, um, just like the, the demo I was showing earlier of that computer use agent working. So, yeah, I, I think as far as, you know, doing, doing what you know and, and starting

• 39:20Speaker 01

  there, and then the market will tell you, you know, the market will pull you into specific verticals. You'll start seeing ways that as you build these specific, this is a great point. As you build out these specific workflows around these verticals of like, let's say you do, you know, let's say you do the manufacturing thing and you do manufacturing for doors.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Over time, you're going to have a workflow for almost like every kind of thing you could imagine in that industry. And if you have the agents all built out, can you imagine you have a workspace and you invite, uh, you know, some, some new company into this workspace that, uh, for, for automations, for manufacturing, for doors, like luxury doors? And you invite them and they have all these AI employees in the workspace in Orgo set up, ready to go. You just see them all here and they're all ready. Ready to go. It's like you feel like you just hired not a person, but a team. I think that's, that's, that's a very near future. In fact, I don't think there's anything stopping us from having that right now.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  It's all about just, you know, who's going to go out there and, and put in the work to actually do that. And if you do, I think it's, I mean, it's, it's pretty clear.

• 40:30Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. I mean, and that's, that's why I truly believe that, you know, agents are the new SaaS. Like, you know what I mean? So

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:39Greg Isenberg?

  I agree with the, like the vision you painted. I think that, you know, in the past, you know, we created software that we would sell to these businesses. And then they would have people actually, you know, press the buttons, touch the knobs to, to make it useful. Now you don't, you're not going to create software and invite them to the software. You're going to create agents and you're going to invite them to the agents and then the agents are going to do work. That creates value for these companies. So that's the mindset shift and you know, it's, it's only recently actually that people have been, you know, I think over the last like two weeks, I would say two, three weeks that people have been like

• 41:25Greg Isenberg?

  on X, talking about this.

• 41:29Greg Isenberg?

  How agents are the new SaaS. But I, I do think that like over, you're going to see over the next two to three months, like some really big winners. And you're going to start to see it work. So I'm excited for people listening because I think that this is the type of audience that will act on some of this stuff. And it'll be interesting to see what, what happens.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it was, it was Sam Altman that just said, you know, every company is turning into an API company.

• 42:02Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  And that's interesting because interfaces are in a sense dying in that way of like, you know, you won't interact. Like the ultimate interface, for whatever reason, seems to be chat and text message. And it's happened twice now of like, Okay, the chat GPT moment was a chat box. And now it's the open claw moment, which is like a text message or telegram. So it's like, okay, chat has happened twice.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  And that just means, okay, so we just want a way for our agents to be able to use all the tools that we use. And we don't really care about how it does it. It just needs to be able to do it and it runs in the background and does it under the hood.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  So here, okay, I started, I built, you could see that this agent in the playground built out the TikTok agents. Dot pie inside the computer. So now I asked open claw, hey, I built a TikTok agent dot pie in your desktop. Can you take a look? And it's, it says, okay, I've read it. Here's what I see. There's a skeleton for, you know, using Orgo plus Anthropic's API.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Go ahead, Greg.

• 43:14Greg Isenberg?

  No, you keep going.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  And it was, and it was, you know, all, all the actual TikTok logic, trend detection, all this stuff. It's like, okay, maybe we should build that out. And it's like, oh, you got the API keys hardcoded, et cetera, et cetera. So let's just say, let's use this script, build on top of it. Or whatever you need to do.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  And let's spin up a Orgo VM inside of the Greg Isenberg workspace. To accomplish this automation with TikTok. Let's demo it just working.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  We can spawn.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  A sub agent and VM in this workspace. And let me just give it an API key, just in case it needs that.

• 44:12Greg Isenberg?

  What really blows my mind about this whole thing is that.

• 44:18Greg Isenberg?

  You know, I was gonna say, we're, we're building a business in a very short amount of time, but it's really like, we're building an asset. Like, the amount of assets that people are going to be, be building, using tools like this is, is gonna be crazy.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  It's insane. Honestly, it comes down to like, honestly, like, it comes down to taste now. Good ideas.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Cause like, if you have a good idea, you could just, you just build it. And yeah, there's, there's gonna be like, oh my goodness, what's gonna happen with all of these assets? Like you said, that people are just gonna build and build and build. There's gonna be so many assets. I think, is this what, is this what we mean when we talk about the,

• 45:04Speaker 01

  the abundance that AI will bring, you know, of solving all these problems?

• 45:09Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. Well, I think what ends up happening is,

• 45:14Greg Isenberg?

  you know, unfortunately, there are gonna be more and more layoffs as AI helps with productivity. At the same time, I think there's gonna be a renaissance, the golden age of entrepreneurship and people creating assets, products like this, one-person businesses. And

• 45:36Greg Isenberg?

  that's how I see it playing out.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Even, even, and maybe, we don't know officially, but maybe it's already happened with Peter Steinberg or the creator of OpenClaw. You know, he, he just officially announced he's joining OpenAI.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Like, I think it was just him who built OpenClaw. How much did he get, you know, Aqua hired for? I think it was a lot.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  So that's, that's, I mean, that's, that's cool. I think this is the best time to be a builder slash tinkerer, to get creative. I, I'm excited to see what people build with OpenClaw and computer use agents in general of like, is, there's so many things, you know, whether it's a, a super fast chess computer use agent, or if it's something that's genuinely driving an outcome in your business. Like, I just think there's so many things that can be built. Playing around with these tools, getting familiar, learning how to, how to leverage them. Yes, AI is going to be replacing a lot of jobs. But also, it's going to enable a lot of people to do things, you know, that they've never been able to build before, and now they can do it. So.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just, oh, here it is. Okay, so you can see it spun up this computer TikTok Trend Hunter. And my screen's just refreshing. Uh, let me just click into it.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  And, and I could just tab back and forth a little bit to see, okay, VM is up, it's opening Firefox. Let me wait for the agent loop to start. Here we go. So it spun up its own computer. This is insane, Greg. It spun up its own computer.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  OpenClaw did. And now it's, it's using its own Python script that it just made just now. We took it from idea browser. And now it's gonna go do this thing. Um, that we just built out. I don't know how long this took, last like 10 minutes. Kind of just, you know, in between, we're talking, having our coffee. It's like, this is insane. I don't know. You kind of, it makes me, it gets me giddy. It's like, uh, and it's gonna figure this out. It's like, you know, it's gonna debug, like, okay. What's going on? Why am I on the ads.tiktok.com? Let me reroute myself. I'm sure it's gonna figure all this out. Uh, but it's just cooking, you know?

• 47:55Greg Isenberg?

  Crazy dude. Crazy. Anything else you want to cover before we head out?

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, um, as far as other things to cover, I mean.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  I, I just want people to start thinking about these tools, you know? Yes, they're, they're, once again, they're great personal assistants. But if you start thinking of OpenClaw as an N8N, or you start thinking of it as, um. You know, like a Lindy AI of like, you know, people, there are real businesses right now. Like, we can go to Upwork. Right now, and find jobs that are being posted around. You know, things like this, this is what you do. You just go to Upwork. Upwork's great because you get to see what the market's asking for. You just type in. Uh, robotic process automation, you know, this old outdated way. Of, of programmatically automating tasks that is like.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Clunky and it breaks and it's not intelligent. If the button isn't in the exact UI space that you delegated it to, it won't work. And you go here, look, posted yesterday, Android RPA automation, posted yesterday, automation pipeline for client upload. You go here, you could just do, let's, let's find $500, $1,000, $5,000. Let's look at all these projects. Okay, this one, boom, right here. $1,000 budget. I'm looking for experienced automation engineer to build desktop automation, computer use, for my software business. We sell a specialized dynamic PDF. You take all this context, give it to OpenClaw, give it to Claude Code.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  How much of it can you build out as a demo based off of this context alone? Send a proposal. You have your first customer right here, $1,000. Get, get, get some case studies. Leverage that. Maybe go deeper into this industry or that this person's in. Start building out specialized workflows using Claude, bought OpenClaw for all the different vertical use cases in that. Create a workspace of it. I think that's where we're at right now and I'm excited by this. So, um, yeah, I guess we'll just see where it goes. And yeah, okay, this needs a little debugging. As to be expected, we spent 10 minutes on it. But I think you get the gist. And yeah, I'm excited to see what everyone builds.

• 50:22Greg Isenberg?

  From your lips to God's ears, baby. I am, I'm, I'm, I think your approach makes complete sense. It's the exact approach I would use. Totally recommend it. People get your hands dirty, get tinkering. I'm excited for what you build. Nick doesn't do a lot of podcasts. I think I was only able to find him do one livestream before. So show him some love in the comment section. Like the video, show him some love and.

• 50:55Greg Isenberg?

  Nick, I hope you come back on, share more use cases. I'm gonna be sharing more use cases that I'm using, that I haven't done too many publicly. I'm gonna be sharing more of my use cases, both on virtual machines and on my own Mac Mini for my OpenClaw stuff. So get ready for that, folks. And Nick, wait, is there anything, is there, is there anything else before, before we go that you want, that you want to share?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I just want to share with you, Greg, you don't know this, but I've been a longtime follower. This is my YouTube Rewind 2025, top 0.5%. So if you're watching this and you love Greg's podcast, you love his videos, you get building on top of it, you put cool stuff out there, you know, you join your, you join your top YouTube channel on your, on your, your Rewind of the year.

• 51:51Greg Isenberg?

  I love it. I love it. Nick, you're a legend. You gotta come back on. You're one of us. You're one of us. So I appreciate, I appreciate that.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Thank you, Greg. Thank you for having me.