How We Got Our First Dev Job (Lost Episode)

We’re taking a trip down memory lane to discuss the milestone every developer remembers: landing that very first job. Whether it was through a standard application, a side project gone right, or just being in the right place at the right time, we break down our individual paths into the industry. We dive into the realities of the early dev grind, the skills that actually mattered vs. what we thought mattered, and how the landscape has shifted since we started. If you’re currently looking for your first role or just love a good origin story, this one's for you.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Dude, it's funny because when I get like, and we do actually do real standups at work, or we have like- What do you mean, real standups?

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're on another podcast?

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's offensive that there's another podcast called The Stand Up.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Hey guys, it's Teach from the future here. A little bit of context, we were in LA at the Lighthouse and we got to film an in-person stand-up together. Really hope you enjoy this. We're gonna catch up and media res, as they say in the biz, on Trash saying how he got his first job working on mainframes. Hope you enjoy this and hope you learn something about getting your first job or the next job in tech. Thanks, everybody. Don't forget to like and subscribe. See ya.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Seriously, like, I'll be like in these conversations where like, you know, everyone's giving input and they look at me like I'm like the intern because I look young. Well, I looked younger at the time. They're like, who are you? I'm like, bro, been doing this for like 10 plus years. What are you talking about? You're like, what?

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Are you sure because of how you look? Or like, you're not sure it's not your code? There's other things that make you appear junior.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Real quick though, guys, even if you were 40, if you started programming day one, mainframes weren't that hot 40 years ago still.

• 1:04Speaker 00

  Well, all the companies that use mainframes, they're not changing their tech stack, so. These jobs are around forever.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Wait, so what were you literally writing? For what company? Can you say?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  He won't even, he doesn't have a language.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  It was like this, like-

• 1:15Speaker 01

  He's such a making this up. What's the language, Trash? We were using punch cards. What's the language, Trash? Micro hard.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  It was, um, they sold like gear for, for like cranes and heavy industry stuff.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  This sounds made up. Why would you, why would you need a mainframe for selling cranes?

• 1:30Speaker 00

  I don't know, but I was writing RPG. I did some cold ball, some Fortran.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  RPG? I've played those kinds of games before, dude.

• 1:37Speaker 00

  You wouldn't understand. You're too young, bro.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Skyrim.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  No, I did some cold ball, I did Fortran. There's this other language called Lanza that was for like web development.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I'm obsessed about that.

• 1:47Speaker 00

  Dude, check this out. We actually had a person come in once a week to grab our tapes because we backed everything up to a tape. So we had to learn how to do backups to a tape, put them in a vault. Someone would come and pick them up.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  A vault?

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Wait, what do you mean? Like you like, unroll the tape?

• 2:00Speaker 00

  It was like a guy like in an armored, like literally legit, a guy like in an armored car would come and collect our backups.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  So this is like get before get?

• 2:08Speaker 00

  There's like financial data, all this stuff, like our old like CRM, like support staff, they all use what we coded.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  You put support staff on a-

• 2:16Speaker 00

  It was green screen programming. So like when you went to McDonald's like probably 15 years ago.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  That somehow does not make it any easier.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Green screen programming?

• 2:21Speaker 03

  So it's fake. Oh, it's fake. He's saying it's fake. It's green screen. Okay, it's not even real.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Okay, so check this out. So this is how I got the job. So when I graduated at the time, I can't remember the year, but there was a huge hiring freeze. No one was getting jobs in tech, actually. It was kind of a label mess.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you got hired this year?

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Just listen to me.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  We're listening, we're listening.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  I found this job on Craigslist. It literally just said programming. It literally just said programming on Craigslist.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Programming dash eight slash hour. He's like, I got it.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  I think that was actually programmer one, space one, because that's like the level.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  And I just like hail maryed because all my other friends, they all were getting jobs.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  You graduated with a software like development, like what did you graduate from?

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Uh...

• 3:01Speaker 01

  You don't remember your major?

• 3:03Speaker 00

  I graduated so... No, no. Business adminis... mana. Business administration with information systems? I think, and it was like a focus, and you could focus on different tracks, and I focused on databases. And then in high school, I was in the Oracle SQL Academy.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Oh, I got, I got, I got. I was hoping to say, in high school, I was in the Oracle Club.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  I mean, it was basically that. But um, yeah, so...

• 3:27Speaker 03

  It's like chess club. It's like chess club. Pretty cool.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  You won, I understand.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  We actually won regionals.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  I was writing SQL and you guys are just like...

• 3:33Speaker 03

  So, so how did this work? You went on Craigslist for whatever reason and you found a job?

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Programmer one, clicked it, just to apply. I don't even remember what it said.

• 3:40Speaker 03

  How do you apply? Do you have to do like a public post? How does Craig? I don't even know how to...

• 3:43Speaker 00

  I don't even remember.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  There was probably like a phone number and email.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  I think you just send an email.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Or this is before email, fax.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, faxed it. I think they had a pager number and I beeped them. 911, need a job.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Beeped three times to apply.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  No, but check this out. So I go in and the whole interview was on paper. There's three questions, like, here's a standard sized piece of paper.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Three, and I had to write like a if statement, a for loop. And then like some other thing.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  What?

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was, I can't.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  They literally just asked you like.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  This job, this job was just like, it was the most random job ever. Like, I don't even know, like, like, the fact that I found it, got hired, was just like a miracle. Like, honestly, it was just like, it just felt like someone made it up, like you guys are saying. It kind of just feels like it was made up, but it's just like how I got started.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  This explains so much about Disney Plus and Netflix and Hulu, every place trash has worked.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Weird, man. And so the people that I used to work with, they still work there.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  And at Netflix?

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Oh, was that Hulu before Netflix?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  And Disney?

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Well, Disney bought Hulu. And then when I came back from like paternity leave, it was like a full Disney takeover at that point. And then I merged with another Disney team, and I was like, I'm out of here.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying, he's worked at like, he's worked at all of them.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go to Max next, HBO.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  That's smart.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Did you guys hear that?

• 4:57Speaker 03

  What about Amazon Prime?

• 4:58Speaker 00

  I'm never going to Amazon.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Trash's boss, did you hear that?

• 5:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, did you hear?

• 5:02Speaker 00

  What did I say?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  He said I'm going to Max.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  I'll just say, have you checked out Tubi? I think that might match your skills.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, Tubi.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Well, there's some good stuff over there. I don't know if that was an insult to Trash or not, because I've never watched Tubi.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  I hear it, I hear it's okay. I hear it's okay. No, but seriously, like, getting that job was just, was just crazy. So, I'm gonna go like one step further, just to the next job. So, when I was, uh, but before I graduated, IBM came and like interviewed a bunch of the seniors.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  So I was supposed to go to IBM out of college, um, from those interviews, but they did the hiring freeze. And I was like, so I was banking on IBM. I was like, man, what the heck? So that's how I came to this job. And then get this, uh, like, check this out, like, a year later, IBM was like, randomly emails me, was like, the hiring freeze is over. We're actually hiring you. We want you to potentially come back, but you have to take like a math test and all these weird tests.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  A math test?

• 5:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I remember I had to, I had to do like some math. No, I'm being serious. Like, they give you like an hour long test of like, it's almost like an IQ test.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  What kind of math did you have to do? Hit me with some.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Probably like pre-cal at the hardest.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Pre-cal is pretty hard.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  I don't remember pre calc, but but to me at the time, I was like pretty good at math, but now I don't even know algebra at this point.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Dude, but I'm confused though, because after you're done, isn't it post calc or no?

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Shut up. No, but check this out. So it was like an I can test. You had to do, you had to do shapes. You had to like finish like these patterns and all this stuff mixed in with math. And then you only had an hour and I remember I was just sitting in my kitchen, just like sweating my.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Wait, you have, yeah, I got the same question. I got the same.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  How are you taking it for an hour, but is at home?

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just, it's just an online test.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  I thought it was on paper. I thought it was on paper.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  No, no, like I'm not, I'm not going to like a facility like I'm taking SAT or whatever. It's just an online test.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  I work on mainframes and Oracle. We're assuming paper.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, but at this, but at the time, like the internet wasn't really like, there's no AI. It's, you can't really cheat like you can today.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  AI didn't know that in the eighties before the internet. AI didn't know before the internet.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  Did you know that like Looney Tunes had self-driving stuff because they thought the AI was going to come and do it all that for us?

• 6:57Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Alright, so Trash, what's our takeaway for getting your first job?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, your advice was terrible. Go on Craigslist.

• 7:02Speaker 00

  Oh, was I supposed to give up? I thought I was just talking about how I got my first job.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  This is practical advice.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, that's good. That's what I'm saying. So then I'm, then I'm saying, what's the takeaway? What can we learn from this?

• 7:10Speaker 00

  Takeaway is when there's a hiring freeze, honestly, it's kind of luck to be honest. If I'm, if I'm being, if I'm being.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  That's what it's not what it sounds like at all. It sounds like you were grinding on a bunch of random places to find out.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  My actual first job was literally, like I said, it was like a miracle, like stars aligned, it happened. IBM happened because I actually,

• 7:30Speaker 00

  you know, contrary to belief, I'm kind of smart. So.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Lot of contrary there.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  I believe kind of smart.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, but no, but really like, I think like.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  I believe kinda.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  But like actual advice, like especially now, because it was kind of like not as bad as it is, we're in what 2008, nine, I can't remember. But like ultimately just came up to like not giving up and just like actually believing in yourself to get jobs, right? I wasn't like the best programmer. I clicked on a programmer.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  First of all, your advice is go on Craigslist, be smart, believe in yourself. Guys, you all have jobs now. That is it.

• 8:05Speaker 00

  Hey, man.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  They need a T-shirt with the step by step.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  Well, my real advice was, my real advice was, Godspeed.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  It's happening to your mic or fuck.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  I don't even know, man, my mic came off.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  He's sweaty.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  Dude, I'm so hot in this chair. Like, it's like, my back is just so wet.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Opening Craigslist down. Craigslist is about to get like a bunch more.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Craigslist. Does Craigslist still exist?

• 8:26Speaker 03

  It does still exist.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  First of all, it still exists. It still has sixteen employees. Still killing it.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  I don't know how many employees they actually have, but sixteen's a good guess.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  That is a good guess.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  I like that. Every time they need someone else, they just apparently list it on Craigslist.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It's easy.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Programmer one.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Dude, I was a programmer. Dude, I don't have like a C history. I just, I knew how to do a write an if statement and I was like, YOLO, let's go to this interview.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  I can't believe you had an interview where you had to write an if statement on paper.

• 8:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, and a for loop. I don't even, I don't even remember the language. I don't even think there was like, I think I could just like write whatever I wanted. I did like C++ in college. I think I did like C++.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And from that one piece of paper, Python was invented.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Honestly, yeah.

• 9:07Speaker 03

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• 9:44Speaker 01

  All right, Beegan, what about you?

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Cause you have a fun, you have a fun transition into tech.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I came into tech pretty late, like when I was like twenty-five, twenty-four, twenty-five. The only thing is, is I will not tell what my first job is in tech, because we will, I will get kicked off the podcast again for six months.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Is it because of the one with my uncle?

• 10:00Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I will say this. If we, if we launch a Patreon-only podcast, I will tell the story of my first one, but I will not do it on a public camera, because it is a little sketchy. Um, everyone gets in the industry their own way. My first job at a company that was like actual other programmers, um, not selling illegal things on the internet, was, I, I just went to Portland, Oregon, and I literally, and if anyone was in Oregon like a decade ago, they might even know me. I went to every media. Meetup. I went to JavaScript, Ruby, DevOps. There's like a Scrum Manager meeting. I'm like, what's up, guys? It's Sheehan. I have a Scrum Master. I want to see what you guys are doing. I literally, I'm not, I think I went to like three or four meetups a week. And then anyone who was working on anything, I had no friends at the time. I go, what are you guys working on? Can I help? And then I would go home and just do as much of their project as I can and be like, guys, look what I did.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  I helped that. I helped that. I made it responsive or this or that. And then I made friends that way. Okay, okay. It worked. It's actually a good strategy.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  It's a really good strategy.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  And then I kept going to all the meetups again and again and again, week over week. And eventually some people were like, hey, you're kind of okay. Do you want to come in for lunch and meet some of the other coworkers? And I meet some of the coworkers and then finally it was like, maybe you could be a junior dev. We're hiring some junior devs. We already kind of know you. We see you at the meetups. And I was like, yeah, I'm out there. And then no joke, the first real job I got was applying to a ton of tech shops. I wanted one so bad. The first one I really got, the guys were like, okay, so what, what did you go to school for? I'm like jazz. That's not a joke.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  That's actually a really good answer too.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  That's not a joke.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  That's a good answer.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  All jazz. So I went there and they go, for real? Well, look there. There's a double bass in the quarter. I play jazz. The other guy, I play sax. And so they said, great, we have a guitar here. And I played, if you guys would play jazz, I played rhythm changes. They had me actually go through rhythm changes, which is like, you know, I've got rhythm, I've got music. If you don't know that song. More, I need more to know. I've got my. If you don't know that song.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  I want to know this. I want to know this.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  There's one million variations of it or a bunch of jazz songs. It's like a standard. You have to play. So they literally were like, let's hear you play. And they were like, you are rusty at jazz. It was bad, honestly. And they were like, hopefully your programming is better. They saw that and they go, also a little rusty at that. But they said, well, we'll give it, they literally were like, you're a jazz dude. We'll give you, we'll give you a chance. We'll risk it. Damn. And I slept in the office for those first three months.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Okay, George Costanza.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  And then they said, stop sleeping in the office. Like, you're not even getting work done. It just smells worse in your office. You're just giving off bad vibes now. But I will say, I, I know it doesn't work for everyone because I, I moved to Portland, Oregon to be like, I'm going to get a job in Ruby. I'm going to go to all the Ruby, the JavaScript meetups.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  And I just. Were you DHH fan at that point?

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Oh, he's my hero. I, I used to read DHH's book back then. Well, every piece of advice from DHH's book, he. wrote with his um

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Go ponder Jason Freed.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Exactly, Jason Freed. Every piece of advice in that book, I followed to a T. I remember it was like, chapter four, act like a drug dealer. And I was like, done, let's do that.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  I've been doing that. He hasn't stopped, if you're wondering.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Give him a little taste of some free code and then you say, yeah, I got more where that came from.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  But it's gonna cost you.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Cost you. No, I was, I was reading his book obsessively over and over again, listening to every advice, underwhelm the competition. I haven't read this book in like seven, seven.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  What does it mean, underwhelm the competition?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  So everyone's trying to do better for the competition? Lame. Do less.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  D H H.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  We'll have to ask him later.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  You are friends with D H H.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  We can ask him.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Just call him.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Well, we'll have him come back on and you can quiz him about the book and see how much he remembers.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Ooh, D H H, can he remember his own book?

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what's rule number four?

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, no, I think the underwhelm thing is like, everyone's like, I'm gonna do this crazy, insane, intense, perfect experience. And everyone's like, we don't like any of this. And you spend an hour, like, you're perfecting it. You go, okay, here's something that's kind of like not that good, but it's a good idea. And it goes genius idea goes, let's work on that, you know?

• 13:33Speaker 01

  It's like when, like how in Notion, for some reason, they have like the AI search being the top thing instead of just being like. I want, I want, I want to type in the name of the thing and go to that page. That's underwhelm the competition, right? It's like less bells and whistles, more just like straight to the point. Do what they actually like need instead of, well, one, what they say they want, and definitely not what you imagine that they want.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Well, what are, what are actual, I'm actually getting actual practical advice. And the other thing I did for every company is in Portland, I would find the job I want to work at. I would know people that worked, that would go on, I would look at whatever their stack is, and then I would build websites with that exact stack. It's like, you want TypeScript, Postgres, Redis, and I would go, fantastic, here's my brand new website. It's a combination of TypeScript, Postgres and Redis. And I hooked it up with, try and get inside info about their stack and build on it, especially if there's like one thing that's off, like TypeScript, everyone knows. But if there's one thing where it's like, we also use Kafka or we use what or something, I'm like, okay, be Kafka expert. I'm like, we just need one Kafka guy.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  You accidentally read like six months of philosophy and stuff.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  I'm so confused.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  You're like, oh my goodness, how is this integrated into their stack? But that's what they said. They're a big Kafka place.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Also, there is something with Kafka, like looking for bugs, turning into a bug. We're gonna work on some stuff later around this, okay?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  We'll work on that for sure.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  One thing I noticed, like, so you're saying like, do you like the, uh, do meetups and stuff?

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  I was going to meetups not too long ago. I felt like literally everyone there was just looking for a job like ninety-nine percent and then maybe one recruiter. It was like, but mostly, but mostly you're just sitting in. But mostly you're just sitting in.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  That's a joke, okay? A recruiter walks into a meetup. We've all heard that joke. Is it because? Meetups are no longer like a place to go? Like, is that what's happened? Is that, is that what we're observing? So now it's just people going there for jobs?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  But it's still like, okay, so imagine you're going to meetups for a long time. You make friends with other people that are looking for jobs. Some of them are gonna get hired someday.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  True.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Right? And so then, if, okay, so maybe it sucks. It takes six months to find the thing and you're applying at a lot of places. But then maybe eventually you run into your buddy. Who you went to meet us for, for a year and he's like, bro, I got hired here. Like, oh my goodness.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  You should get hired here.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  I got hired in a group of three juniors. It was, we're gonna take a risk on you three. We became friends going to a Ruby meetup all the time. And that was it. They were like, cool, we'll risk all, all three of you. So yeah, I, I think it's good advice.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Was it like if one of you got fired, everyone was getting fired?

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. No, that was, I, this was the job where it was three, like, I mean, I was the scrawniest, most indoor kid of all time. I, this is back in my time in my life.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  He's still an indoor kid.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  This was when I was actively saying, okay, I still can walk, but I'm gonna transition into a wheelchair early. And I was honestly on this road. Of like, why would I wanna stand ever? I could have a chair every, I'm being so serious. So.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  What?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Dude, why would you need to stand?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  That's like, like, I'm not gonna pick any hobbies that I can't do when I'm seventy, so I'm not gonna do any of these. I'm gonna start playing golf. That was literally the thing.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  A trash, you ever been like, oh, standing is so much fun?

• 16:31Speaker 00

  I think it's, I think it's more, it's more convenient.

• 16:32Speaker 04

  Shut up, this is called the stand-up. If you make fun of stand-up one more time, I'm gonna.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Swear.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  So, when I started, I was, I'm in Portland, it's like, you know, real hippie dippy, you know, it's how it is. My boss, he hired us and he literally says, alright, alright. It was me and two other guys. We're doing yoga on Tuesdays and Thursdays, working out Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Everyone gets a bike. And I was like, wait, for real? I'm not a bike person. They go, you're getting a bike?

• 16:53Speaker 00

  This is you as a software engineer.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  And I became a bike person. I became a yoga person. I, I, I.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  You solved Rubik's cubes on the way to work on your bike.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Exactly, but I got forced by my, my boss literally says, do it. And I said, wait, wait, because you'll be fired.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  So he's the reason why you have fake teeth?

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  He's the reason that you thought you got cancer.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Wait, what?

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, being. Do you want another story?

• 17:16Speaker 02

  No, he doesn't need to hear the story.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, you gotta tell a story.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  You can't just say that.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  I think many people, some people know my lore. I've been hit, I've been in a lot of like accidents.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Tell it the right way.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  I told this to.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  No, you know the way that it's funniest.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  So, so I like to ride around in Portland, Oregon on my bike a lot. I do not like to follow any of the rules, right? I do not like to have lights on my, I like to be dressed in all black. I wanna blend in. Stop sign, don't know what those are. Zip fast before the car.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Those are for cars.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Zip, zip fast before the car. So, and also I'm a big fan of doing Rubik's cubes, doing work on my bike. I like to get stuff done. I'm a multitasker, so I like to solve a cube at this time.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  This is actually true so far.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  They get so mad when I do this.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  These are all things that are true.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  So, in, in Portland, I'm doing this, I'm biking home, going a million miles an hour. And I just ran a stop sign and a car was going to the stop, a truck as they were supposed to, and they T-boned me. And I flew into the air and then a million.

• 18:06Speaker 00

  As one does, yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 02

  And a million Portlanders, families surrounded the van and said, "We saw you. You hit that guy. He's..."

• 18:14Speaker 01

  They, they were against the truck guy.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  The truck driver.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Cause it's Portland, right? So bikers are always right.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  So he didn't have a stop sign. You ran the stop sign.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  I ran the stop sign. One thousand percent hit fault. Thousand percent hit fault.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  In black.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  It's so my fault. Probably, probably on my phone, cubing. And so I got hit, they all surrounded him, and then they're like, "Don't let him get away." And then they called, they called cops over. And I'm like, kinda injured, you know what I mean?

• 18:34Speaker 00

  They came to find you because you're in all black. You're like, "Where'd he go? Where'd the guy go?"

• 18:39Speaker 03

  He's just integrated.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  So I was in the middle, I was definitely in the middle of the street, and then they, they stopped the guy, and then finally the cops go, "What happened?" They go, "Oh, I'm an idiot. I ran a stop sign and that truck hit me." And the truck driver was like, "Thank God. Oh my God, there's a mob of people."

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Like the truck driver almost got his like license taken away.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, the mob, the mob was gonna, they're like.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  Citizen's arrest. It was about to be a citizen's arrest.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  So, so then obviously I said, "Hey cops, my bike got destroyed. It got destroyed. I need to help getting home." They took me home and everything was good. I, I just, I went to.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  How fast did he, how fast was he going?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  It's pretty fast, pretty.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Mostly how fast was he going?

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Like, how did you go home after this? Not to the hospital?

• 19:13Speaker 02

  He picked, no, no hospital. They put me in the cop car.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  He doesn't go to the hospital since the accident.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  They don't go to hospitals. So, we, they put the cop, they put my bike in the cop car. We go home, I go to bed, everything's good. The next day, I go to wake up and I can't walk anymore. So I don't have the ability to walk. I wake up, my legs are bruised, this big, purple, like I cannot walk. And so I'm like, "Okay, it's fine. I'm a programmer. I'll just work from home from now on." So I work from home from now on, but then over the next couple of weeks. I developed ball cancer.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  So over the next couple of weeks, I slowly started having very intense pain in my testicles. And so obviously I got on Google and I found out that, oh, I probably have ball cancer.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  So there was the top result for his symptoms. Right type of symptoms like.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  My balls hurt cancer.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  It's GG. Well, but there's a reason why you thought that it was vegan. Why did you think that it was probably testicular cancer?

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Well, I looked up and says, okay, my balls hurt. It could be ball cancer. And I said, okay, great. Are you wearing tight pants? I'm like, oh, I have tightest pants you've ever seen in your life.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  As tight as they go in Portland, he got tighter.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  They were skin tight. So, so I said, okay, no big deal. I work from home, so I just will not wear pants for a couple of weeks. So I just stopped wearing pants. Um, which means.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  To fix the cancer.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Which is pretty good because he thought he had cancer, so he quit wearing pants.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  So, so I, I sat, I worked in a robe.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  That's one naturally.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  I think a robe over a week I work, I was in a robe, but I'm not joking. Over the week, the pain is getting worse and worse until like I couldn't get out of bed anymore. And so I was assuming probably the laptop on the balls were really causing more cancer.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Were they huge? The wifi radiation.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  No, they, they just. Never had them. No, no, they're getting smaller. No, it just, it hurt so. And finally I was like, okay, cool. It's been three weeks. I'm going to die of cancer. I might as well go to the doctor. And so I finally scheduled my first doctor appointment ever went there and I said, hi, man. Like, you know, my balls really, really hurt. Can you help me out here?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I have cancer.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  I, I know. I said, I, I have testicular cancer. I confirmed it on WebMD. I read all of the things.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  I love that you're telling the doctor that you have cancer. I have cancer. I just want you to know that.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. He, he, he, you know, you have to get in, if you haven't gone through this, uh, trash, they, they have to fondle you a lot naked to find this out. So he, you get naked and he follows your balls and then he says, how does that feel? And you say, very weird.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  And also painful.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  And then he asked the greatest question. He says, were you in any recent trauma? I go, yes, I was hit by a car. He goes, did you come to the hospital? I go, of course I didn't. And he goes, you're an idiot. You crushed your penis tube.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  In a bike accident. You have to come to the hospital.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  So it wasn't cancer.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  No. I just started smashing.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  He got hit by a car.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  So, so that was the last time I went to the doctor. That was a decade ago and we did, but I stayed there all day.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  A decade ago? Well, that's not that long ago.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, nothing bad. We did every test too. I got, I went, I got the rest of them. I, I was there. I said, okay, we're just once. So I stayed there all day. I had more blood. I tried to get that MRI thing and they were like, you can't get back.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  What about CAT scan? Did you get a CAT scan?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  So that's the start of me getting it. Oh yeah, I got a CAT scan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I got, I started in Oregon, where I started getting into major bike accidents and it continued all the way to LA and.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  But getting, getting a job.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  That's an insane story.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, I don't think we're done yet. I don't think we're done yet.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Jobs.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Do you have any other practical advice?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, okay. So, so I think a lot of people, they have a problem where if you are in a city that has meetups. So I always tell people, just do what you do in Portland, Oregon, or San Francisco. Go to a meetup every day. You know the meetups you have. So obviously you don't have that. You gotta go online. The problem is when people go online, they go to like the town square. They go to Twitter. Think about going in the middle of New York, like Times Square and be like, I'm gonna make some friends here. Who wants to be friends? Who, it's like, you're not gonna do it too.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  They're not good at it either.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  No, and there doesn't work. I've tried to make friends at Times Square, okay? That naked cowboy, he was nice. And then he charges you. I'm like, dude, we're vibing. No, so like, you have to find, well, I call them like, online communities, neighborhoods, online neighborhoods. Where if you're interacting regularly, you meet someone. So like, I love, recently I was doing like some like Rusty stuff, little Ratatouille.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  And you pop in there like, oh, look at this, a Discord for this. Wow, there's not that many people here. If you just chat here for a month or someone makes some cool project, these people know you. And then one of them might have a Rust job, you're trying to get a Rust job and whatnot. So like, I think people, they immediately go to Twitter and like, hi, I'm a developer. Why is no one seeing me? It's like, you gotta pick a smaller online area. And that usually is like GitHub issues for a project. Discord, Slack.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  And it can't be, it can't be like, you do that for one week and then you're like, hey, guys, where's my job?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  It needs to be like, you're just doing cool stuff because you're excited about it and doing them. And then like, it might be that that one leads you to a job, it might not be, but it can't be like this sort of quid pro quo. Like, I'm putting in this time and I, one of you guys better hire me or I'm gonna have a meltdown.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're never desperate, kills you a lot of times.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  Also, don't come in too hot.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean conversations can't be so transactional. We're like, I'm being your friend because I want a job from you.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Like you have to be like very personable enough.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Perhaps be interested in the technology itself.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's best if it's like, it's some employable technology and you're passionate about it. So then you're doing something, you can be learning skills and doing all of this other stuff. And then maybe what comes from that is like an offer or a relationship or something else. It can't just be, hmm, I see that uh, NextJS is the thing to get hired for, so I'm gonna go hang out on their forums a little and then I'm just gonna, I'm gonna instantly reply every time someone says something bad about NextJS and I'm gonna be the NextJS defender.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Dude, sometimes you just remind me, with the crew that I was, when I gotta find this crew too, in Portland, I was like, all juniors we're getting hired for, one of them was like, "Open source is the key. Watch this. I built and he built a little piece of code that went through GitHub repos, looked for scalling mistakes, fixed them." And he's like, "I've contributed over 500 repos this month." And he was like, "I'm kind of an open source guy. You're only working on just Neo them. Oh, okay, I guess you're not really an open source guy." "I have over 500 commits on separate projects." And he was like, "Dude, I don't think you're learning anything."

• 24:52Speaker 03

  He did build a bot though. That, that bot is very impressive.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  He built a bot. Also, I, I shouldn't tell everyone this, but you guys know that you can't just write a script. You could just code and have your GitHub show whatever you want.

• 25:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Okay, guys, you do not have to actually code every day. You can have it say whatever you want.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  They have like those scripts that make like design.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  That's when it's cool. You like spell it with dark green and you're like, trash.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  I don't know if I'm gonna do that.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Trash, dead, because you run out of room.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  Trash, dead.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Trash D. Trash D. Trash D what?

• 25:22Speaker 03

  I don't get it. Trash D.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Okay. They're gonna say Trash D's not.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  So uh, well, T, T should just share a story, because I already, first of all, if you guys don't know, T, one of the few programmers I knew, he was like a D1 recruit. I mean, like, what, you got a, you got a Chevy?

• 25:34Speaker 00

  A D1 recruit was gonna be?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  I can't talk about that. They're gonna, they're gonna take away my trophy if I do that.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Oh, shoot, oh, sorry, not that, not that, actually.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. This was before they let the NCAA like pay, pay college kids, you know?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  You're like the real deal for all of this.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  But that's not how I got my, any of my first jobs.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Well, then prove us wrong.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  Tell us more.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  He had top offers from every firm, okay? McKinsey?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  McKin- uh, so I got my, I mean, I got my first job out of school, working at Epic Medical Health Records Company.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  Not Fortnite, not Fortnite.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  I have to say it every time, because I know there's some percent of people that were like, dude, we're early at Fortnite? You know, they're like, no, no, that was when Prime was streaming Fortnite and I was not, not there. So.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  It's true. I was streaming Fortnite.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  No, so the medical, medical, medical health records place. I got there, I mean, like, pretty much more or less very, the, the normal way. They came to like, a job fair at my school. I got in contact with them, did interviews while I was in school.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Wait, wait, wait, job fairs are normal? I've never been to one.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's, that's because you didn't go to anything at school.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  You went to jazz school. They don't have job fairs for jazz.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went to, I went to job fairs all the time. It's called the club.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  I thought it was gonna be, uh, they had Starbucks at my school.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  They have job fairs at your?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  They had job fairs at my school. They were always advertising they needed baristas.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Wait, did you go all, all with job fairs?

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  You been to a job fair, Trash?

• 27:00Speaker 03

  No, no, he got his on Craigslist.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  But, but I have been to job fairs, like, when I was in college, yeah.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  TV thing. I didn't know those were real.

• 27:06Speaker 00

  But it was kind of like, have you seen the job fair, like, in the office?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  That's where I know the job fairs from.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, you kind of just like.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Correct the record, TJ.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  I mean, it can be that, uh, like, people.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  I did not go to a great school, so that's why our job fair was pretty terrible.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Like, it wasn't, it was not like Ivy League, like.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  But it was D1. Okay, he was a D1 programmer. He came in.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  But that's fine.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  D1 recruit, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, I mean, for me, it was, I mean, it was basically like, the job fair part wasn't that important. Really about it, it was just like, I applied online and went through the stuff and got hired there. But the, like, more interesting one is when I wanted to get my first remote job. Um, cause I was, I was just like, a random Midwest dude who worked at a company with, like, all technology from the seventies that was completely irrelevant to every other job. It was like a weird, no sequel scripting language.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  You pretty much trashed that, is what you're trying to say.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  It was like trash, except we, we didn't have to do tapes, so maybe it was more advanced. I mean, it was a different, it was a different era between me and Trash, you know what I'm saying? Um, so.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  10 years later, no tapes.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It's literally a different decade.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Tapes gone, tapes are gone.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Uh, but the, so I wanted to get a remote job, but I didn't know anybody. I hadn't even really done very much contributing to NeoVim. I, I definitely was not.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  You hadn't even contributed to NeoVim yet?

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, contrary to Beagans, contrary to Beagans take, I was not like most of the way to like being known for open source or anything like that. I was just.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  What was the first open source project you contributed to?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  NeoVim.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  There you go, guys. Everyone, imagine that. What's your first open source project? I was just an editor used by literally 10s of people.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  It wasn't as popular back then.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Okay, shut up.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Tens of people. Uh, but the way that I got my first remote job, which maybe is like more relevant for lots of people there is, one, you have to find ways, especially if you have sort of like, mine was, I would say like somewhat traditional of a resume, but not super helpful because I didn't have any experience in any of the technologies that I wanted to do. So it's definitely getting screened.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  We can just put your Stack Overflow rank on there, right?

• 29:07Speaker 01

  I definitely was not answering stuff on Stack Overflow at the time either. Cause it's lame.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  It was not lame 10 years ago, okay? Stack Overflow was very competitive back then.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  I tried to get my reputation up.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Oh, I was working on my rep until I got, and this is true, I got an entire WeWork IP ban from Stack Overflow. Oh, people?

• 29:24Speaker 03

  Can we come back?

• 29:24Speaker 02

  We'll go back and get back.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Level table that, we're gonna circle back, we're gonna circle back. So, so but like, so I, I had a resume that probably would not be super helpful at getting a job at anywhere that I wanted to get hired at. So you need to find a way to get a like personal email that is posted somewhere online. So that could be Hacker News who's hiring, that could be like some smaller site like Angelus.com at the time, I think it was called, or like, I don't know what any of the startup ones are. Now you need some way to get a like person email that you can email directly and make your pitch for why you're a good fit for the company.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  That then means, and I did this for probably at least 100 companies would be my guess, uh, before I got one interview and then I got an interview and got hired at that place. So that was good, but like.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Dang.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  You have to go, I like, I, cause I remember doing it literally for probably like two or three months. Cause I was gonna, I wanted to move back home.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Be close to my family again.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Oof.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Um, and so like every night, that's what I was doing was finding new companies, doing this. And then you need to go and like, what's their company mission? What's their stack that you're interested in doing? What's their like values? What are cool things that they've done? And then write, not chat GPT, write your own pitch for why you match those the best. Like I literally got through the first door because I talked about this one place like, hey, we really like empathy. I wrote about how Kaylee and I were going and volunteering at this thing. Like on, and how it was really cool. And I learned a lot about other people. And they're like, oh, that's, that's interesting. That's, that's the unique thing that said, yeah, we'll give you a shot. And then that's the place that I got hired at.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you, if you apply for like a CRM, you're like, dude, I just, me and my wife passionate about managing customers data and like.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  We, that's what we do every night.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Every night I go home, I, I make my own little spreadsheet.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Whatever. Just lie and say you're passionate about.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Me and my wife are passionate about customers data.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you guys can at home say they don't care about values. Somebody at the company does.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  Someone put it on there.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And it might be the person whose email is there. And at the very least, it shows that you know something about that company. That already puts you above ninety-five percent of the other people because ninety-five percent of the people are just spraying and praying. They're just sending resumes every place they can, especially now. I'm going to sign up for AI automated shooting at my thing everywhere to write a book. If you can do anything, every single little thing you can do that does one unique aspect about you, might be the foot in the door that you need to get the first job. Cause like I'm saying, I was a

• 31:58Speaker 03

  True.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Random guy from the Midwest using an outdated tech stack and I got hired by a cool like startup that did Python, which is what I wanted to do at the time. That made Fortnite.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Is programming Fortnite, just random Midwest dude.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that would be, that's my like, you've, you gotta find some way to represent yourself uniquely. Right? And especially if you can find a way to match that into what the company does. That's, that's the best advice that, that's advice that worked best.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  I don't think I've ever wrote a, not saying you shouldn't. I just don't think I've ever re- wrote a cover letter, nor have I really read them when someone did send me one.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  You should write a cover letter.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm not saying it's, I'm just saying like, like I feel like, so like for the jobs when I was like reviewing resumes. I always just go straight to like the, the experience and like, do you hit all these marks? I'll be honest, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't ever read the cover letters.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  I can't remember the last time I read a resume.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  I mean, like the last.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Well, you guys are probably the wrong people to ask anyways.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I think it depends on like the level too. It's like if I'm interviewing for seniors, I just go straight to the experience. Well, no, it's like, it's, it depends. It's like, it's like, if I'm looking for someone more junior, right? It's, it's riskier, no matter what. We're gambling more. And so if I'm gambling more, I'm gonna pull in more piece of information data. Like someone in the chat mentioned, like writing a blog. I see a junior has written a blog. It's just like, ooh, bumps up a little bit. Now, that doesn't as ma- matter as much for senior person. I'm like, what is your code? How are you contributing? But the junior person's like, oh, they show initiative.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  But like, I don't, I, if I can get a big signal from something that they send to me, that the senior is a pleasant person to work with. That they have skills to work on a team. I don't care if you write awesome code and everyone hates your guts. I don't wanna work on your team. We don't wanna hire you. You're gonna tank our company's culture. You're gonna trash all the code. You're gonna be the one hundred fifty-five IQ Haskler who abstracts everything into the clouds. And then our company gets tanked because we get lapped by the people writing JavaScript and putting as any. Like, I, so, and they're.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  You don't do as any in JavaScript. Nice try.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  You can in Bun. You can. So, right? So I, so it's like, those are, those are important like signals you can send. Especially if you're like angling for a new stack or you're angling with somewhere else, or you have some non-traditional like background for the job you're hiring. It's like for me, I would way rather see a signal that this is like a good person to work with, that they have social skills that work well on our team. Than it is like, oh, I see they've worked at wherever.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Well, I hate to say, I hate to say this. One thing I see online the most, people are like, oh my God, everyone's always like, your network gets you hired. I've been in tech for twenty years. That hasn't worked for me. And I always go, you're tattling on yourself.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  That's a self-report. Sorry to tell you.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  TikTok sucks. It's nothing but young girls dancing half naked. What? It's an algorithm? It's like, it's, a lot of people don't realize that, yeah, you've, you messed up a bunch, multiple times.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  You've, you've hit heart on the wrong, on the wrong TikToks then, buddy.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  There's something going on here.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so it's like, yeah, because you, you meet people and if you're actually a pleasure to work with and you. Do a good job, people want to work with you again.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Even if they're at a different place or whatever.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  It also doesn't mean like what, what kind of company you're going for. Cause I mostly come from like startups and it's like, okay, it's smaller. We might end up with some weekends and some nights.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  If I'm gonna be with someone on my weekends on a Saturday night.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  I gotta like them more.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Like the more I'm gonna spend time with you in off hours, the more you need to be cool. So I think it's easier sometimes to be like, quote unquote, the personality hire. That's a little bit like rougher and then prove yourself versus a company.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  That's a good point, cause that's where I was like looking to get hired was a smaller company doing remote work. Doing more of a different stack and stuff like that. So I like that sort of writing a cover letter, finding a real person to get an email there. Like those are ways that I think you can get help. What about you, Bron?

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Hey, thank you for, you didn't even finish your sentence in your.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  I know, but I was excited. I was like, I don't have anything else to say.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  I think I got a little bit slightly different advice than you guys. I, I kinda took a, a more non-traditional route. First off, I was.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Start with Fortnite.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  I was twenty-five when I graduated from college and no, I was not a doctor. Okay. Some of us take a little bit longer to get through, you know, the old college.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  And so what I, what I did is that the very first thing I did is I tried to make my own company. I just thought that was.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  I was just, I know literally, I think every person my age was so affected by the social network when that movie dropped. You're like twenty-four years old and it's just like.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  I wanna be the Z.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Dude, this guy is just like, I did it. Screwed all my friends and made a billion dollars. And I'm like, I could be this guy.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  That could be me. Wait, what?

• 36:27Speaker 02

  My plan is to be the Eduardo.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  That's your motivation? I have to rethink this partnership.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  No one's Eduardo. Okay. No one wants to be him. Anyway, so that's like, that got me all pumped up about like, I could make anything I want.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  And so I spent years doing that. And when it inevitably failed, which it did, by the way. Trash, can you not adjust your mic during my talk? This is my soliloquy.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  It's fine. The, the recording.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  I know, don't worry. I'm just talking about the live audience.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Hello YouTube, you can hear us nice, loud and clear later.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, later.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Sorry Twitch, you guys are awesome.

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Awesome Twitch.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  Also YouTube and Twitter, if you're there. Uh, so.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't know actually.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  So that's kinda like one, one of my big first things is that I think to. Be employable, it's really great to have done something yourself. Cause I have like a well to draw on. So I spent two years being so broke that me and my wife got in an argument like I heated. Is this, is this the end? Are we getting a divorce? Because she wanted to buy almond butter and I'm like, girl, we don't have money to do that.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  You don't got almond butter money?

• 37:22Speaker 03

  We don't got almond butter money?

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Still fighting with her about that.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Actually TJ was over when she brought up that one and she was just like, we could have done it. I'm like, I don't think we could have like, we will still fight about that one. But it's, it's very true. It's like, we were so broke and we just did this for so long. And then when I finally said, okay, I need to get a job. I felt like it was a lot easier in the sense because everyone I talked to. I could just like talk about what I did and I had this, uh, the skill, which I think anyone can have the skill, which is you find the job you want to work for. You figure out the stories of your own life that match what that job is. And when they say, "Hey, tell me something about yourself." You're like, "I got a story that's gonna line up with their tech staff, that's gonna line up with their mission."

• 38:06Speaker 03

  And I'm about to drop the story so that they like are obligated to ask follow-up questions. I'm gonna steer the conversation this entire time. Because I'm the owner of this conversation. They're trying to get information from me. And so I'd always just figure out everything I want to say. When I went and interviewed at Netflix, I did the exact same thing. Read the entire culture deck, came up with like five separate questions. And when someone come in, I'd be like, boom, you say that you want like A players and if there's a B player, you give an A grade severance, like, what does that mean for work-life balance? Because does that mean I'm working all day, every day? Because you also claim 40 hours a week. So how can you be all those things, right? And just like challenge them on every single point when they'd ask a question. I was never afraid to challenge them even on the question. Like when someone, uh, again, this was at Netflix. I, I've called people stupid in multiple interviews.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  I'm not recommending you do that, but it is, it is sometimes worth it if you, if you already feel you have a really good report.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  Interviewee or the interviewer?

• 38:55Speaker 03

  The interviewee. And someone was just like, oh, because I was, I was, they asked me like, what would you change about our product? I said, the Xbox search is super terrible. Again, I learned everything about the product. I went and used it. I never once touched Netflix in my entire lifetime until I got an interview. I watched all of Battlestar Galactica in like two weeks. And use the product every single day for like six hours.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  How did you get them to mail you all those DVDs at the time? That's crazy.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  This was 2013, tough guy. They had streaming, okay? They already went through Quickster. No, shut up. And so then what I do is that when they asked me about that, someone actually had the gall to be like, our Xbox search is not that bad. And I said, false. It is the worst product you have ever created, and here's why it's terrible. And like went on like a whole thing, told them how not only could they change it, what would be better? How you would measure it would be better versus the old one? I came up with, you know, from search to play, what is that distance? How many successful searches are they doing? Are they giving up? Like, came up with every possible thing. And so that way I came in prepared, pre-primed, ready just to rock on any question. Cause I knew I was gonna get a bunch of these type of questions. And so it's like, this is what I want to change about your company. This is what I think I can do really good for you. Here's a story about what you guys do, and this is why I would be good to be there.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Like, I was so focused at every single company I did, and then I do research. So the first job I ever got, the person that worked there, I found his brother, and me and his brother had a common link.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  And so I was just like, what kind of questions do they ask there? And he's just like, do they love this, the crystal ball, the two, the, you have a crystal ball, you have two of them, need to find out when they break? So you can drop it down these stairs. But the moment it breaks, how do you find the next step as fast as possible? Right? Like, how do you know where it actually breaks at? The answer is simple. You have to drop its square root of n. And then when it breaks, you only have to back up square root and then linearly go through square root of n. And so it's actually the fastest way, because if you did it with binary, if you went halfway down and dropped it, it broke, you'd have to do half of n search. So I knew all this and I came in on it. And they actually tried to tell me it was the log n thing, and I was just like, here's why you're wrong. Broke it all down, like, this is actually how you do your problem. Like, I researched the crap out of the problem, dude. I was so.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  I was so ready for the problem because I went through all this research, dude. I was just like, out there. I was just ready. And I'd find out everything I can.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  And the jobs I didn't do that on, which I can think of one, which is, one was Oracle. Back then I was right now technologies, and the other one was Google.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  He didn't figure out how to work khakis, right?

• 41:11Speaker 03

  I literally, when, I didn't read the Google, like, manifesto for hiring, which says, read cracking the coding interview. I didn't read it, did not get the job the first time. The second time, I read the manifesto. It said, read this book. I read the book, I was asked three questions right out of the book.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Pass it, walked right in, got in. And it's just like, this is so stupid. Like, why? Just read, just do the thing.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  And so that's what I'm saying. That's like very similar to like the advice I'm saying is that you have to do the research and then find ways to show that you did it.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Just showing that you're interested at all in working at that place. Okay, you're already better than 90% of the people that are applying, right? Because they're just like, I'll work anywhere, I'll do whatever. You're like, okay, well, I want to work here.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  My work will look like I care.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Okay, dude, that's already better than a bunch of people they hired, you know, like.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I did have one other thing that was that I did do career fairs and our career fairs were okay. We had like two or three tech companies because it was Bozeman, Montana. There's virtually no one there, but I found out everything about those companies and I came in just hot. I'd find them, I would talk to them, I would just sell it. In fact, one of the offers I got to work at underwater warfare in Seattle was because I made the strongest eye contact. She said, no one in my grade made eye contact. And I just looked her in the eye and talked to her the entire time. And at the end of it, she's like, you know, I'm gonna say yes to you. Because you looked me in the eye the entire time. And I was just like, yeah, unbroken.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  What company is that? Because I will be suing them for ableism, okay? The autist will take that company down. I will.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Him and the Portlandia gang. Portlandia about to shut that place down.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Prime's advice was watch all of Battlestar Galactica.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  All of Battlestar Galactica.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Stalk people, I believe.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find out everything you can and then craft your stories around that so that they have to ask you follow-ups.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Craft your stories and then also memorize all the, buy stolen answers of what they're gonna leak.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Dude, if somebody's, if somebody's willing to tell you what they're gonna talk, I mean, that's what leak code is today. Leak code is just like, hey, I heard this. I heard they asked this question. So just like I memorize all the questions. I just learn them all. Um, one other thing that I thought was super, super duper good to do is that, uh, when you get the chance to talk to somebody.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  Come up with questions.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Like, just like.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Never be the guy that goes.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  When you have five minutes left and they ask you that, you should have like two or three questions and practice it with somebody in real life.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  That's like a huge thing I do is I'd be like, hey.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  And it can't just be like, um, do you like working at here?

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I'd like, I'd actually grab my college, like, like, uh, whatever you call them cohort, and I'd actually ask them like, hey, I need you to ask me these questions. I need you to try to give me a mock interview because I want to be the best there is. I want to train for this.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  I RPG'd it. I was like, my stats way high on the question.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  RPG, that's what trash was writing?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, me and trash.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  RPG is a RPG four too.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Wow, they, so I, I will say on, on the question side, like, especially if you're a junior, because I know I've done, we've probably all like interviewed a lot of people. I'm looking for a junior who is asking questions about what, how are they going to learn and be mentored?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Because you know, okay, you're not God programmer. So they ask like, hey, how does it work? How do we do? Do we do pair code reviewings? When do we, do we do learning times? Do we have refactor Fridays or what? If they're not asking questions about how they elevate their skills, you're like, uh-oh. That's a problem. If they ask, you don't have to say like, oh, you're a genius now. You're like, look at you're asking.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like, it shows that they're going to be willing to like take code review or like some suggestion on the PR.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  And be like, okay, I will change it so that it can be good. You do not want to be the junior who's saying, well, actually I learned it at school. You guys are all wrong, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the time, right?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  I've been that junior. I have been that junior.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Sometimes you're right. It's, but also sometimes.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  You're been wrong more often.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  But also, dude, software is also a social game. Like you're working with people, you're making stuff together.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Team sport.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  So sometimes.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  Team sport.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Sometimes the technically right answer is the wrong answer for the company. Because you got to burn too many bridges or spend too much social capital or get the wrong person angry. So they just say, that's okay. You got the wrong one here. Maybe you tell your boss, hey, I'm, I think this isn't the greatest, so you can have it down later. So you're not the one that gets framed for the, how it turns out in six months when it was wrong or whatever, but.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  So, so it's like, sometimes you just got to do that and that's okay. And can you be that junior, right? Or can you be that person at the company? You can give signals by asking your questions about learning and all this other stuff that will give a strong signal. Like every time I've had a really. Uh, where the interviewer or interviewee who's a junior and is asking a question, I've always said basically, yes, I don't think I've ever had one. Where for a junior role and they were asking questions, even if they like messed up parts of the other coding thing, I'm like, still, yeah, they they're ready to learn, they're ready to be.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Mentor, they're ready to get better.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  He's just like, too chatty, pass.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  I've actually struggled interviewing interns and juniors, cause especially when they're all like, I wanna learn.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  And I'm willing to do it. And then I'm like, shit, I don't have like, I'm always looking for a differentiator, like, you know what I mean? Cause like, I can. At this point, everyone has given the advice like, you know, you gotta be eager to learn, you wanna grow, so everyone's.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Well, you'd be surprised.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, but yeah, I definitely had like bad.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  That's shocking, cause I've had a lot of.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 03

  Opposite experience.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  I have a lot of bad ones, but when they're good, it's like, man, like, how do I like discern them? How do I pick them up? Do I use, you know, GitHub contributions or, you know, obviously there's a consensus, usually like the interview with multiple people.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:35Speaker 00

  From them, but sometimes it's like, man, they were both like so passionate. Really eager to learn, like, how do we, how do we pick one? And it almost just feels like, not like we're actually flipping a coin, but like. It's almost to that effect, like, it's, man, I could work with either one, like, I like, I can't make this decision.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  That's when you just say, boss, you gotta decide, they both get a yes from me.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  I've had, I've had jobs where our goal is with interviewing is actually to try and push the person past their knowledge to see how they act.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  That is the goal. So we just take one topic and going deeper, deeper, deeper, and you're trying to, I want them to say, oh, actually, I don't really know that, here's what I think maybe, here's I'd research. And it's so funny, cause half the people, good developers are like, no, I don't know, here's I'd research.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  And the others go, yeah, yeah, so check it out, it's a, yeah, it's probably, and they start lying.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  My favorite interview that uh, that I had, actually at the place, my first remote job, when I'd done all this stuff. The last stage of the interview was pair programming, it's a small company, so like with the founder, right? Cause it's just small, right? So it's like, okay, so you and you're like, oh, my goodness.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Pair programming, it's not funny, it's a real technique.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but so we just picked, they pick a random, like, crazy competition programming problem. That he doesn't know how to solve. And you, we tried to solve it together.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Oh, that's fun.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  And we lit, we didn't solve it, we worked on it for an hour, we didn't know what the solution was, we did not know what the social solution is when we were done.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  I actually love that, that's actually kinda fun.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  And it was like.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Neither of us are gonna solve it, but let's try.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Right, and you know, he was, he was giving some ideas, I was giving some ideas, right? And like, it was totally fine, we got to the end and. It was very obvious we could work together.

• 48:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  When you're at your job, you don't know what the Azer is. That's the whole point of the company.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  You're iterating on new ideas.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  I mean, you sometimes know the answer.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, but a lot of the time, but even if you know what the answer is to this solution, you always don't know. How do we get better? I mean, maybe a Netflix.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Don't argue.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  If you know the answer, we're automating you away. You're getting fired. I read the Netflix Jack. I know how it works.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. Ace Everett's coming your way, buddy.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  So that's obviously hard because you can't do it for everybody when they first come in. But like as a final pass for an interview, that was one of my favorite, that was probably my favorite interview process I ever did was that first one. And I really liked that because both of us didn't know. So I also got to see, do I like working with you?

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:45Speaker 01

  When I don't know. I mean, I was desperate, so I was gonna take it either way.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  But that is, that is a very good note. I just need you on my resume. People don't often like think about this, that an interview isn't just them seeing if they want to hire you. It's also, do you like these people?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  Like, do you actually want to work with these people? Because I've had interviews where I'm like, ew, I don't want to work with this guy. This guy's like, not, just, this is not gonna work out for me.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say for the like, when you're trying to find out if you like a person or not, like when you go back and forth, like, like think of a bit of like a date. You know, and that's why the eye contact's important. That's why you gotta share some things about yourself that are gonna be maybe not the most, you know, I'm a little weird to be honest. I don't want to get hired.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  No, okay, yes.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  I don't want to get hired and then be like, what? He's eccentric? Right? It's like, that's, I'm going to have a bad time.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  So it's like. Everybody would be having a bad time.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  So you kinda wanna, you gotta, you gotta show them, you're trying to show them like, I hope this works out good because you're gonna really hate me. If you don't, and you shouldn't feel bad if you're like, you know.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  If they're gonna not hire me because I'm loud, then I don't want to work there. I do not want to be at the company, so.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  No, that's good. That's good. That's good. You should, you should, you should really tell your story about how you got Stack Overflow banned for an entire-

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And then we'll, and then we'll wrap it up.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  So, okay, if you guys don't know Stack Overflow, back in the day, this is an old website. This is pre ChatGPT. So this is like forever ago. When you wanted to find out why its code was broken, you go to Stack Overflow, the most pop, like sixth most viewed website on the internet at the time.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  So if you guys didn't know, this was back when I was really trying to be a DevOps boy. I was running a DevOps meeting. Everything HashiCorp was doing, oh my god.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  This is post Ruby during your go phase.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Switched to Go. Now DHH, no longer my hero. Mitchell Hashimoto is my new hero. I'm gonna be like him now. And so I'm going, I'm just like, literally every time there was a Terraform update, I was, you know, ready to do it. So I'm trying to be a good contributor on Stack Overflow Answer Answers, and I'm giving the best answers possible where it's like, there's a couple of different directions. Here's a link to some information. Here's a different style. When you're new on Stack Overflow, you can't post 40 links. You can't post a bunch of formatted code. You have to have a higher score.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  True.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  So I was at a startup at WeWork, so I said, "Everyone, pull up the Stack Overflow post and start uploading all of my posts." So we can, so I can get enough points to answer people's questions, to be a good guy. We did that for a minute, and I'm not joking, we got IP banned like right away. And I went out to the little WeWork, everyone's hanging out, and people are like, "My boss doesn't understand. Stack Overflow's down." Multiple devs were like pissed off, and they're all like, it was WeWork, so it wasn't like a bunch of like super, you know, software daddy. "They don't understand. I have to take this day off. Like, what is going, who did this?" And not just that. It said our company name on it. It had just our, so they were like trying to find our cubicle in the WeWork. So it was like, I don't know how, yeah, so it was, it was bad.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  That is so good.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  It came back the next day. It was a whole day that it was gone.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  That's so awesome.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so don't manipulate the Stack Overflow. We don't have to worry about this anymore.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's fine, that's fine. They're gone, they've already been accumulated.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Jeff Adwood just pledged 100 million of his dollars to give away to charity right now.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah?

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he's like, I was like, "Oh, yeah, Stack Overflow's done. Might as well give the bunny away and start over."

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm done with that, so it's fine. Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Whoops. You ever got IP banned at any place at work before? Never Geerick?

• 52:03Speaker 03

  I have never been IP banned, but I have been threatened by Stack Overflow with a handwritten message.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Oh, I know, yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  That one is funny. We'll have to save that for the next episode.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yes, we will. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Beautiful.

• 52:13Speaker 03

  The next episode.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Thanks, everybody. This was the Stand Up Live. Hopefully you enjoyed it. I know if you watch this live, the audio is scuffed. Don't worry. You can watch this later on YouTube.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  On YouTube.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  And you will be able to see this on Spotify, which you can watch and listen right now.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, Spotify's up these days.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  We're on podcast listening platforms everywhere. So you can go there, check it out.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  This is weekly. This is twice a week. We just don't do a lot. We don't usually do it in person. And, uh, yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Do you want to tell you while you're while in person?

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Hey, just, hey, just someone in chat, just do, uh, Bang Stand Up, right? If you just do Bang Stand Up, I think it should shoot out both the Spotify link.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  And the other one. This is the reason why we don't do this. So damn short. I know. It's a little short.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, next time we'll, next time we'll figure it out, uh, for to get these mics hooked up to somewhere.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Well, this is the first time.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  There you go. There's YouTube. There's Spotify.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Yep. So thanks, everybody. The audio will be fixed in post.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  Can we play the ball song?

• 53:06Speaker 01

  No, we can't right now because I don't know how to get that audio through there.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  The ball song.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  If you're in Europe and you're near Amsterdam, you can come to TwitchCon EU. Me and Prime will be there as well as Beegin, actually. Well, I've, I don't know. There's.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  I just got my passport today and I fly tomorrow.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So hopefully that'll happen.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  But that's literally gonna spoil.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  That's probably like blasting their ears.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  It's gonna spoil.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  You don't get to hear the rest of the song.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  You cannot play the rest, please. Okay. That's it. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you later. Uh, follow the podcast on Spotify. Give it five stars if you're there, but don't everyone do it at once. We don't want to get IP banned.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Yes, please, please just separate it out.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Oh, we do have Crocs.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, we're Crocs boys.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Everyone pick a time.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Crocs boys, dirty Crocs boys.