Should You Put Ice In Your Milk? With Brittany Luse & Eric Eddings (Reheat)

Should you eat fast food on vacation, or should every meal be at a special local place? Is soup bar food? Does ice belong in milk?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  My whole extended family and I went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina this past spring. And I gotta say, I came away feeling like, number one, this is a great family destination. Number two, this is a great place to come all year round. The mini golf alone is probably worth, it's like the mini golf capital of the country. They have the most incredible elaborate mini golf courses. They also have more than 80 championship, full-size golf courses, plus 60 miles of beautiful coastline, all-season sunshine. Of course, you can relax by the beach or the pool. There's also jet skiing, fishing charters, paddle boarding, and of course, food. Oh, man, did we eat well in Myrtle Beach. From fresh local seafood to craft burgers and craft beers to kebabs on the boardwalk. With more than 2,000 restaurants to choose from, from legendary no-frill seafood shacks

• 0:43Dan Pashman?

  to chef-driven dining, Myrtle Beach has it all. Plus, live entertainment at the beach, there's always something epic going on. So, summer may be winding down, but in Myrtle Beach, you're gonna find the coastal vacation of your dreams all year long. Start planning your ultimate beach vacation at visitmyrtlebeach.com. I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking.

• 1:23Dan Pashman?

  Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Sirius XM Podcasts.

• 1:41Dan Pashman?

  Hey, everyone, it's Dan, and I gotta tell you, this reheat has one part in particular that I still think about all the time. I mean, it has many great parts. It's a listener call-in episode with Brittany Luce and Eric Eddings. They're close friends and former co-hosts of podcasts like The Nod and Four Colored Nerds. But the part of this episode that I think about all the time relates to the question of whether you should be eating chicken wing tips, like the very, very tip, the crispy bit. It's like bone and skin, but when you crunch through it, I mean, it's so good. But I mean, that's a controversial opinion, as you will hear. We cover other big questions in this episode, such as, does soup make for good bar food? And is it outrageous or perfectly reasonable to put ice in your milk? Eric, Brittany, and I are not afraid to take on the tough questions.

• 2:24Dan Pashman?

  By the way, these days, Brittany is at NPR, where she covers all things culture. As host of the show, It's Been a Minute. Remember, of course, if there's an episode of The Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer and reheat, we wanna hear from you. Send a voice note or email to [email protected]. Tell me your first name, location, what episode you wanna hear, and why. Thanks so much, and enjoy.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  I don't typically like English muffins.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  I don't know, I just never really-

• 2:49Speaker 01

  What's wrong with you? English muffins are so, you know, you just reminded me that I wanna buy some. They're so good.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  I guess I just, I grew up on biscuits. Biscuits were a foundational piece of, like, breakfast bread.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  But how do you feel about bagels?

• 3:03Speaker 02

  I've come around on bagels. Bagels took me a minute, but bagels are-

• 3:06Speaker 01

  But you know that there's a lot of bad bagels out there.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is the only place I will eat bagels, like, if I'm in-

• 3:12Speaker 01

  That's good, means you have a palate. Hi, Dan.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. You see how, you see how I deal with Dan all the time?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Have you ever considered that you're sensitive? And I'm just normal? Have you thought about that?

• 3:22Speaker 02

  No, I've considered that I'm right and you're wrong.

• 3:30Dan Pashman?

  This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food, trying to learn more about people. And today on the show, we're doing one of my favorite things. We're gonna take your calls and settle your food disputes. But first, I wanna introduce two very special guests who are gonna help me out. They are Brittany Luce and Eric Eddings, co-hosts of the podcast Four Colored Nerds. Hey, Brittany and Eric.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  How's it going?

• 3:53Dan Pashman?

  It's going great, thanks so much. I'm psyched to have you both here. Now, we should just set you up a little bit. Four Colored Nerds was a podcast that the two of you started independently a while back, then you segued to co-hosting The Nod for a few years, and now you have relaunched Four Colored Nerds to much enthusiasm, very exciting. For folks who haven't heard it, how would you describe the show?

• 4:12Speaker 01

  It's a weekly show about black culture, which means we talk about, you know, music, TV, movies, food, art, literature, all those things. But also, it's a show about friendship, because Eric and I have been friends for, like, 16 years. We've been working together for seven years, which blows my mind every day.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Impossible to imagine. We've made it this long.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  It's impossible to imagine we've made it this far. But yeah, also, like, you know, I'm sure Eric and I are gonna get into a fight at some point in this episode, and if you like that, you're gonna love Four Colored Nerds.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  I love Four Colored Nerds, yeah.

• 4:46Dan Pashman?

  I mean, that's what, that's a lot of what I love about your show, is that I feel like there's always a lot of thoughtful and insightful discussion about culture, but it's, you know, there's also the relationship between the two of you, which almost makes the show feel serialized from one episode to the next.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 5:01Dan Pashman?

  Topics may change, but there's always Brittany and Eric to check in on, and then that, that makes it feel like an ongoing story, which I really appreciate.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Well, thank you, that's such a, that's such an awesome way, yeah, to think about the show.

• 5:13Dan Pashman?

  And as you said, Brittany, food is one of the aspects of culture that is a topic on Four Colored Nerds. And I know that you both have strong opinions about food, especially you, Brittany. I'm gonna classify you as the one with, with the hotter hot takes.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yes. It's accurate, accurate.

• 5:30Dan Pashman?

  Are they valid? Are they valid?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  They're valid, they're valid. Let the people decide.

• 5:35Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. And one of these hot takes is about the correct way to eat wings, so we should get into that. And just to set it up a little, so now, Eric, you've said that Four Colored Nerds might not exist without Popeyes.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  That's, it's a fact. We would actually meet at Popeyes to discuss what we were gonna do on the show, or before we had, like, big business meetings. For good luck, we would meet at Popeyes. It was always just a safe space.

• 5:59Dan Pashman?

  But Brittany, I understand you and Eric have some disagreements about the correct way to eat the wings at Popeyes.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Well, you know what? Eric and I don't have a disagreement. Eric has a disagreement with the rest of the human race about how to eat wings. That's the big issue, okay? So, the thing is, is that one day Eric and I were at Popeyes. Eric got wings, and we were eating, we were talking, and I noticed that he had left the wing tip. The wing tip, for people who are not familiar with whole chickens, is that third little, little flap that comes on the pointy thing that comes on chicken wings. The bones are typically pretty hollow, and when they're fried and covered in some sort of breading or flour coating-

• 6:35Speaker 02

  This is where we start to-

• 6:35Speaker 01

  They are delicious to eat.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I threw one away in front of you.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yes, you threw it away. He threw it away.

• 6:41Dan Pashman?

  Wow.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  And that's the thing that blew my mind. When I saw that go into the little garbage receptacle, I was just like, why are you wasting food? And then I realized that he didn't eat wing tips, and I-

• 6:50Dan Pashman?

  I picture the wing tip going into the garbage in slow motion, like, flying through the air, and Brittany, like, lunging after it, like, no.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  I threw it like a basketball. It was actually a really good shot.

• 7:01Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Accurate, like, oh, oh, look at me.

• 7:04Dan Pashman?

  So, Eric, how do you respond? You're not a wing tip guy?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  I, I think wing tips are a vestigial product of the chicken. I don't think they are essential to a, a happy wing experience. I think wing tips do have a purpose. It is making stock. There are, like, little weird bones in there, and my thing is like-

• 7:23Speaker 01

  They're hollow.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I know, but I don't wanna have to go through all that. I want some good, like, I want the, I want the wing meat. I'm not into just chewing on collagen. It's salty, that's fine.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  It's not collagen. This is how I know you've never even been into one, because the way you just described it is not even correct.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Okay, whatever.

• 7:40Dan Pashman?

  No, yeah, it's, I mean, I gotta side with Brittany on this one. Like, when I make the turkey at Thanksgiving, and that turkey comes out of the oven, the first thing that I do is snap off the wing tips, the charred, crunchy, fatty, salty wing tips, and just chomp down on those things when they are hot and you crunch right through it. It's the crunchiest bite of a bird that you can experience without eating straight bone.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  You know, Dan, I've, I've trusted your opinions for so long and really never, ever doubted you until this exact moment, because you are wrong. It's just taking up space. That's, that's a bite of the amazing mashed potatoes, or like, anything else in your plate, in your buffet.

• 8:27Dan Pashman?

  You're talking about, like, stomach space?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, stomach space. I don't think, you don't, you don't need it.

• 8:31Dan Pashman?

  You don't?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  No, this is the thing, you don't understand, it's a vital part of the experience. It's just like, okay, everybody knows what's the best sandwich that they sell at Wendy's. It's a junior bacon cheeseburger. Everybody knows that. Like, the ratio of it is correct, the price point is amazing, the dependability, you know it's never gonna be off the menu. That's like going to Wendy's, getting a junior bacon cheeseburger, and being like, you know what, I wanna eat two more fries. Let me peel the bacon off of this, because it's gonna give me more room. You're taking away an essential part of the experience.

• 8:58Dan Pashman?

  One more quick question. Eric, I understand that you are a big fan of soup.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:03Dan Pashman?

  So, like, if wing tips are, like, one of the crunchiest things that you can eat, soup is, like, on the opposite extreme.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. No, I love soup. I love pretty much every iteration or type of soup, doesn't matter temperature outside.

• 9:18Dan Pashman?

  You, you guys were in New Orleans, and of all the things to eat there, Eric got soup, is that right?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  It was like at a bar or something, right?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yes, explain how we ended up at this bar.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were out, like, hopping around, and we got to this really, well, I thought it was a really nice bar. We were all excited to kinda hang out at the bar, the music is good, and I'm there, I'm ordering a drink, and they have soup. They have pho. And it was the most perfect combination of things. Good music, like, a bar atmosphere, you know, refreshing alcoholic beverage, and pho at the bar, congregating, fellowshipping with my friends. It's, it's, it's perfect. All bars should serve pho.

• 9:58Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, I mean, soup as bar food is an interesting concept, because most, at least in the US, most bar food is like finger food.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, the thing about it for me that is important, I actually think soup is the, like, social lubrication we really need, because you can't, you have to be who you are when you eat soup. If you are, you have to, I think you have to be your fullest self when you eat soup. There are the people who, you know, they try to, like, hide, they try to be, like, dainty with it. There are folks who, like, are just kinda getting in that bowl, or like, even putting it to their mouths, drinking the broth. You can see the true essence of a person by how they eat soup.

• 10:37Dan Pashman?

  So, you're saying, Eric, like, if a person eats soup with gusto, it's an indication that they have more of, like, a general lust for life?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Absolutely. They take life by the reins, you know? Like, what, what is a little splatter on your shirt?

• 10:49Dan Pashman?

  Right, but they don't have so much lust for life that they'll bite into a wing tip.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Well, everybody has to have boundaries, you know? Like, what are, you know, are we, are we people? Are we animals?

• 11:00Speaker 01

  This is grumpy for me, Eric. This is, this is not working for me. This is feeling flimsy.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  I think it holds up.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  I'm just being honest with you.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  I'm gonna own it.

• 11:08Dan Pashman?

  All right, well, listen, I think we have established that the two of you are great friends, you have a lot of opinions about food. Now, as you know, we ask listeners to call in with their food-related disputes, arguments, disagreements with friends or loved ones. And now, Brittany and Eric, it's time for you to help mediate some of these disputes. Are you ready?

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yes, let's do it.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Born ready.

• 11:31Dan Pashman?

  All right, let's go to the phones. Hi, who's this?

• 11:33Speaker 03

  Hi, this is Jesse from the Bronx. I'm in my school in Manhattan.

• 11:37Dan Pashman?

  Jesse, I hear some church bells in the background. That can confirm that you're somewhere in a noisy, cacophonous place. Jesse, how old are you?

• 11:45Speaker 03

  I am 13 years old.

• 11:47Dan Pashman?

  I just want to confirm, Jesse, you're in school. Are you missing class right now?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I convinced my teacher to let me miss class.

• 11:57Dan Pashman?

  That is fantastic. I think this call is going to take a long time.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, Jesse.

• 12:01Dan Pashman?

  We've spent a lot of time unpacking these issues.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  We gotta dig deep.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  And I'm currently sitting in the principal's office.

• 12:09Dan Pashman?

  Oh, wow. All right.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Most quiet place in the building.

• 12:12Dan Pashman?

  All right. So Jesse, what can we do for you?

• 12:14Speaker 03

  So a couple of weeks ago in class, we were discussing how to have a respectful argument and discussion prompts. And my teacher like asked my class if we have any ideas for like an argument that people are having. So a friend of mine, he brought up that I put ice in my milk, which he finds to be outrageous. And he once saw me drinking the milk with ice and he was like, that's insane. And then he brought it up in class. I start to explain my reasoning and everybody in my class, I'm not in a very large class, it's only 10 people, but the other eight people go on his side.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  That's rough, man.

• 12:56Dan Pashman?

  Can you summarize for us, what was your argument and what was his argument?

• 13:00Speaker 03

  So his argument is that the milk, when you put the ice in it, it becomes watery. But my argument is that I am not drinking milk slow enough. It's not like if I take a sip, then put it down and then pick it up back up again, it's gonna have a completely different taste. When the milk is in the fridge, it's already cold. But when there's really a lot of ice in it, like

• 13:22Speaker 02

  It hits different.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's different.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  I totally, I actually, I don't, I'm lactose intolerant now, but the first 17 years of my life, I was a big milk drinker and I often drank it with ice. What do you typically drink milk with?

• 13:37Speaker 03

  I don't drink milk, like a full glass of milk on a daily basis. I have over the past week to prepare for today.

• 13:46Dan Pashman?

  Bravo.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  We appreciate it.

• 13:48Dan Pashman?

  He's preparing, he's doing research. Very good. Your teachers have taught you well, Jesse.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Like you can't go wrong with a glass of milk with like cookies.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Spicy foods like are notoriously like hand in hand with milk.

• 14:01Dan Pashman?

  Right. Have you ever tried taking a glass of milk, like pouring a glass of milk and putting the glass of milk in the freezer for 10 minutes, maybe? It's not going to freeze solid in that time, but it will chill the milk closer to the temperature that you want it to be without having to add ice?

• 14:18Speaker 03

  I have not tried that. But here is my issue with that is that I have a decent sized fridge that has a freezer that is much smaller. And it would be very hard to fit the glass of milk in the freezer so that it's not knocked down without completely reorganizing my freezer.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Also, it's not instant. You know what I mean? Like you can put the ice in the glass and put the milk on top and it's like done in a snap.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  It's not like, I'm like, oh, I really want milk in 10 minutes. It's like

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Fair, fair enough, fair enough.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  I also want to add that nobody else in my class has tried milk with ice. So I think they have a more reasonable argument if they like take a glass.

• 15:04Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  Put milk in and then put ice in.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  And as someone who's done their research, you know, you feel a lot more confident in that position.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:12Dan Pashman?

  In order for the ice to chill the milk, the ice has to melt at least a little. Now, I understand you're saying you drink it fast enough that it doesn't melt a lot. But whatever, to whatever degree, there is some watering down of the milk. You, that's a feature, not a bug, as far as you're concerned.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Yes. So if my research is correct, milk is about 90% water.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. Even if the little bit of water gets in, actually, it's not that significant of a difference as one might think it to be.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  You've got great school.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you really do. Cause I mean, like the empirical evidence that you are pulling up, this is like an episode of Law and Order.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Really and truly, it's just like Law and Order. I grew up drinking skim milk. I did not actually drink whole milk until I was like 11 and I ordered it at a restaurant. I didn't know that that's how it could come. I still put ice in my skim milk because I always felt like milk was so watery anyway. You're a really enterprising person. Maybe you can get one or two people who can kind of be like the change agents.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  I'm not sure how willing they'll be to admit, though, if I am actually right.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:30Dan Pashman?

  Well, Jesse, I think, I think now you're learning a tough but useful life lesson, which is that

• 16:37Speaker 03

  Very true.

• 16:38Dan Pashman?

  A lot of people don't like to admit when they're wrong.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  People might also go by the majority opinion.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  So here, here is what I think. I would agree with Brittany that you're a very enterprising person. And I think that's also clear based on the fact that you were able to convince your teacher and the principal of your school to let you skip class to come on a podcast to talk about milk.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Here's another part of the story I didn't mention. The principal of the school is my mom.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  Oh, my

• 17:08Speaker 02

  That is amazing.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Yo, plot twist.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  There's your plot twist, Jesse. You had us, you had us.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I actually, I think you're right. Here's the thing. Having the right thing at the right temperature at the right moment is excellent. And a little bit of water, I agree, doesn't, doesn't like, you know, override that. I agree that you need to do some more testing and working kind of behind the scenes. I think you can really convince your class. You've convinced me. I just met you and I was on the fence about this whole thing. But the thing that also made me feel like you might have a point here is when I was in elementary school, they would give us cartons of milk, but our schools were, you know, a mess. And so I don't know what it was about our refrigerator, but they would always come out as blocks of ice. So we were often just peel, this is disgusting, but we

• 18:00Speaker 02

  would peel the carton off and lick the functional milk ice cube. So like remembering that, I feel like, you know, live your truth. Put that ice in the milk. Go for it.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  My grandmother actually freezes her cartons of milk like intentionally. So then you have this like bizarre milk slushy. My brother really likes it, but I, it's really weird and cereal. It's like

• 18:31Speaker 01

  I feel you on that.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sounds about right.

• 18:35Dan Pashman?

  First of all, I agree with Eric and Brittany, like, you know, here on the Sporkful, I often quote the Latin maxim, "De gustibus non est disputandum." In matters of taste, there can be no dispute. And if this is how you like your milk, then it's not wrong. You know, this is just your taste. But we did a show years and years ago on the Sporkful about iced coffee and we had an argument over the, how much ice do you want in your iced coffee and the issue of the ice melting too much and watering down the coffee. And one of the suggestions to deal with that is coffee ice cubes. I would suggest, Jesse, you could try the same thing. Fill an ice cube tray with milk and use milk ice cubes. And then you get your ice cold milk without watering it down.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  That's a pro tip.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  That's such a good idea.

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Milk ice cubes. That's, that's genius.

• 19:24Dan Pashman?

  There you go. What, what do you think of this idea?

• 19:27Speaker 03

  I like it. I don't know, like, how willing though I'll be to like, be like, oh, in the future, I'm going to have one glass of milk with ice. So now I'm going to freeze ice cubes. But it's worth a try.

• 19:39Dan Pashman?

  All right. Well, Jesse, I think that does it on our end. But if you would like to continue to stare at the screen with your headphones on and pretend like you're talking to us for another few hours to stay out of, out of class, that's totally fine. Good luck. Take care, Jesse.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Good luck.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Bye. See you.

• 19:57Dan Pashman?

  All right, Eric and Brittany, we've got another call lined up. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk some more. You guys stick around?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  I'm on it.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  I'm here.

• 20:19Dan Pashman?

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• 21:00Dan Pashman?

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• 21:43Dan Pashman?

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• 22:25Dan Pashman?

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• 22:58Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful, I'm Dan Pashman. Quick bit of exciting news to share, my bestselling cookbook, Anything's Possible, is on super special sale as part of Amazon Prime Days. Amazon Prime Days is now two weeks, so it's happening now through October 7th. Get the recipe for cacio e pepe with chili crisp, scallion oil bucatini with runny eggs, spaghetti alla sassina, pasta pizza, which I just made the other night because Emily's been asking for it forever, and so much more. You must know one or 20 people who would love this book as a holiday gift. Get a great deal on it right now, just go to Amazon and search for Anything's Possible. All right, back to the show.

• 23:37Dan Pashman?

  Okay, now back to my guests, Brittany Luce and Eric Eddings. Welcome back, Eric and Brittany.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  I'm ready for the next call. Who are we talking to now?

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Shaking with anticipation.

• 23:46Dan Pashman?

  All right, so on the line right now, we have Gotem in Nashville. Say hi to my friends Brittany and Eric.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  Brittany, hi Eric.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Hi Gotem.

• 23:52Dan Pashman?

  And we also have Gotem's best friend, Aaron, on the line from LA.

• 23:55Speaker 05

  Hi everyone.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Hey Aaron.

• 23:57Dan Pashman?

  All right, Gotem, get us started here. What's the issue?

• 24:00Speaker 04

  I'm excited to talk about my long running dispute with my best friend, which started about 10 years ago, when we took our first road trip. At that point, we had been friends for over a decade, and decided that we would go from San Francisco to LA. And I did all this research, I asked friends who lived in different areas, like where should we go to eat, because eating is very important. You know, I presented Aaron with this sort of plan of how we were going to spend the week, at least in terms of food. And then, at the end of the trip, I remember we had this conversation where he mentioned, sort of in passing, and sort of usually on the snarky one, so, but a little more snark

• 24:44Speaker 04

  than I anticipated, a comment that was basically like, well, you know, like, you did plan this food, and, you know, God forbid we go to like a chain restaurant, or like a fast food place. And I was like, well, yeah, I mean, we're on vacation, I'm not going to LA to like, eat at Olive Garden. And then we took multiple trips after that for years, and it wasn't that we ever like really worked out, like, what we would do about this. I basically just continued to be me and be like, let us find the best place imaginable. And as with everything else, Aaron just sort of semi quietly went along with it.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  This feels close, I have to say.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  This feels close.

• 25:24Dan Pashman?

  All right, Eric, pause that thought, because I do want to come back to that, but first I just want to make sure that we're understanding the issue here. So, we've got two best friends who want to travel together, but they've got different ideas about how they want to eat on those trips, right? Gotem, you're saying you like to plan, you want to find all the best food out there. Aaron, I gather you're saying you want to keep things a little more casual, is that right?

• 25:47Speaker 05

  So, part of this dispute, I think, came out of the fact that I had, shortly before we took this trip, I had done a road trip with my brother. And one of the kind of highlights of the trip was a stop at an Applebee's, where we happened to win a trivia contest, and we got a free meal.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Oh, that's fun.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  This totally sort of serendipitous event that, it turned out, my brother had actually kind of planned to go to this place, because he knew they were going to have a trivia contest, but, you know, I don't know that we planned the trip around Applebee's in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

• 26:22Dan Pashman?

  And so, Aaron, what did you take from that experience?

• 26:25Speaker 05

  So I think for me, it was very much about the serendipity you kind of experienced, especially in the setting of a road trip. I'm absolutely, you know, all for finding great food options, I do love food, but I also want to be able to sort of go with the flow of the trip, I want to be able to stop when I'm hungry, I want to be able to sort of pick a place where maybe it's about a weird experience, as much as it is about like the real high quality food.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Hmm, it sounds like you guys are just oriented in two completely different places. Like, even if you both really, really, really enjoy a great meal and a great dining experience, it sounds like, you know, Gotem, you might be the planner, and Aaron, you might be somebody who's a little bit more open to serendipity and like the randomness that, that traveling can bring about. Is, do I have that right, or am I misreading?

• 27:20Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I mean, no one would ever call me a flexible, like ever.

• 27:27Speaker 04

  You know, like, I'm a gay Indian American lawyer, right? Like, there's just a schedule, there's like a Stalinist five year plan, and, you know, we're just going to stick to it.

• 27:37Dan Pashman?

  And Aaron, it sounds like, though, that's not the case for you.

• 27:39Speaker 05

  I pride myself on my adaptability, or my willingness to kind of go with an experience. I want to meet people where they're at, I want to try places I haven't necessarily been, and see what I like about them, or find what I like about them. In the context of this trip, my priding myself on my adaptability was, I think, maybe contrasted with Gotem really wanting to present this kind of curated experience, this really refined experience.

• 28:08Dan Pashman?

  Gotem, can I ask you, so when you two are on this road trip, and you have this plan, you have specific ideas about exactly where you want to go to eat, and Aaron is kind of resisting, how did that feel?

• 28:23Speaker 04

  I was a little surprised. I think in part because, growing up, like, you know, my parents, you know, they grew up on a farm in India, and, you know, the idea of going to a restaurant was just not really something they dealt with. And when they came to the US in the early 70s, I think for a while, you know, we had some best food, but by the time I came around, I was the youngest, it wasn't really just part of what we did. We almost either had almost every meal at home, and then we would occasionally go out, and it would be like, to like nice places, right? And I'm using scare quotes there, because I think there's a lot of class and race encompassed in that, which I didn't realize until a lot later. And, but you know, I think also very strongly in my family and in my community, like food is love, right? Like, you can't get five minutes without setting into some auntie's house without getting a bunch of a chorus stuff in your mouth.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  And so, like, the idea of like planning food, I think was also me being like, I will ask everyone I know, I will like spend all this time procrastinating on later that, looking for places.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  It's not procrastinating if it brings a result.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  Thank you, I appreciate that, I will keep that in mind.

• 29:23Dan Pashman?

  Eric, you were saying earlier that you felt that this, this issue hit close to home for you, can you elaborate on that?

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I am the type of person who, like, when I travel, if there's a Ruby Tuesdays or a Cheesecake Factory, I'm going. It's not always the most amazing food, but there's a level of consistency that can be like important, that allows me to put my focus somewhere else. But I will say, and this is actually one of the few points that I will give Brittany some praise, is that I think it actually was Brittany who helped me when it came to traveling, she is the gay Indian lawyer who does all the research to find a list of five star Yelp review restaurants.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  And I like, I must admit, my traveling experiences have been a bit better embracing a little bit of that tactic. Uh, yeah, I see some parallels in the experience.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  I do like to research and know where there is to eat. I'm not great with like always scheduling things in advance. My older sister, who actually, actually is also a lawyer, and gay, she...

• 30:42Speaker 04

  I mean, it happens.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Always has given us a schedule for everything, with every family trip. She's really good about planning in advance, making reservations, counting, like thinking about travel time, where's everybody coming from? I'm not great at that. I think that that's a superpower. What I'm hearing is like, kind of like, not just a difference in preference, but also a difference in expression. I don't know, I don't even know if I really believe in the whole love languages thing, because I think that like I need all four of the love languages coming at me all the time. But it sounds like you guys might have some sort of fundamental difference in how you might express care and want to receive care.

• 31:24Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, our call with Aaron and Gotham continues. We try to help them find a balance in their relationship between planning and spontaneity. Stick around.

• 31:33Speaker 06

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• 32:08Speaker 07

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• 32:51Speaker 07

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• 33:43Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. Let's return now to our call in episode with Eric Eddings and Brittany Luce. Did you understand, Aaron, this was Gotham's way of trying to do, like, create a nice experience for you? Like, it may be imperfect, but it's his way of expressing.

• 34:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. Not to bring too much of our, you know, 25 years of being friends into this, but Gotham's an extremely talented cook and baker. He has in the past, you know, made cookies, made cakes and sent them in the mail to me. I have felt some difficulty in receiving these kinds of things sometimes because I'm not a talented baker. I'm not sending him baked goods in return. Like, why are you sending me these things all the time? I don't, I feel like there's this kind of imbalance in the degree of giving we're showing to one another.

• 34:38Dan Pashman?

  So I am a planner often, especially around food. So I can certainly understand your perspective, Gotham. Like, I remember a time right after college, I was hanging out with my college friends. We're all getting ready to go somewhere. I had planned, like, we were gonna go, I don't know, we used to go bowling a lot. We were probably going bowling. And they're all just chilling on the front steps. And I look at my watch and I'm like, oh, we gotta get going. I come out onto the front steps and one of them looks up and immediately says, uh-oh, here comes the plan.

• 35:09Dan Pashman?

  And I was like, ouch, like, don't you understand? I just want us to all have a good time. I didn't say that, but that's what I was thinking, like, yeah, like, sorry, but like, someone's gonna be the grown up here or we're gonna miss bowling. But at the same time, they were all having fun sitting on the front steps and maybe we could have never gone bowling that day and it would have been also a perfectly lovely afternoon. So Brittany and Eric, what are your thoughts on Gotham and Aaron's issue?

• 35:33Speaker 01

  It's clear that you both care a lot about each other and you both care a lot about your friendship. And this has become a lot more emotional than I was originally anticipating. You know, it sounds like you're at a point where it's kind of like, oh, well, how can we kind of meet each other halfway? What I have found that works for me and that has worked, like, when traveling with a variety of people for work is have like a list and like, put it in like a map, like Google Maps of places that we want to go. Have some places that are like non-negotiables, like everybody picks their non-negotiables, like we have to do this, we have to do this. And that could be food or an attraction. And then in between there, kind of keep it breezy so that if we're wandering around or

• 36:14Speaker 01

  if we're driving and then I see, oh, we're near these places and they're on my map, then we can like go to one.

• 36:21Dan Pashman?

  You're trying to find a balance between the plan and the spontaneity.

• 36:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  You know, to your point, what's, what's an hour in a Zaxby's really gonna do to you? You know, like, it's not, I don't think it's the, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think plan probably, if you have four stops, you know, one of them you leave open and the other three, you're stopping at great restaurants. Aaron, like, I think you, like, rolling with that and seeing it as an act of service, I think gets you there. But I think, you know, for you, I think a lot of times you may be preoccupied with what to do back, but often you just really need to say like, man, I really appreciate you picking out a few of these restaurants. You know, I even have to give Brittany words of affirmation occasionally to maintain our friendship.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Just scraps, little pieces.

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Just, you know.

• 37:11Speaker 05

  Tell me about this. What is, what is that like for you? How does that, how does that happen?

• 37:16Dan Pashman?

  Just enough, just enough.

• 37:18Speaker 05

  I will say on my last trip to Nashville, we did a stop at Bolton's Hot Chicken and it was completely worth it and one of the greatest benefits I have had of Gotham's planning.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Well, I would say as a Memphian, I prefer Gus's, but I would say that is damn good.

• 37:36Speaker 05

  So here's what I'll say, as someone who doesn't eat meat, my, my go-to is just to bring all my white boy friends to Bolton's and watch them cry.

• 37:46Speaker 05

  A serious, like, there's been like at least four of them. It's, it's a gift that I think all of us, especially people of color can really, you know, engage more with to watch how it happens. I'm so glad I could give you that gift.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  You guys are amazing.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  This is really, you all made me actually remember how much I actually appreciate Eric. Wow. It wanes and waxes during the week. Well, you said something nice about me today. On record, I'm sitting here, I'm quaking.

• 38:15Dan Pashman?

  Oh, I think we've all made a lot of progress here today.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  There's like a group hug happening on Zoom right now.

• 38:19Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, virtual group hug.

• 38:22Dan Pashman?

  Well, Aaron and Gotham, best of luck on your next road trip or gathering in LA or Nashville or wherever it is. And I hope you have some delicious planned meals and some delicious spontaneous ones.

• 38:32Speaker 05

  Thanks, everyone. Thanks.

• 38:36Dan Pashman?

  All right, Brittany Luce, Eric Eddings. The podcast is For Colored Nerds. You're both on social media too. Eric on Twitter, you're at E Eddings. Brittany, you're at BM Luce, L U S E. And then on Instagram and Twitter, the show is at For Colored Nerds. You guys, I love your podcast and everything you do. It's been really great hanging out. Thank you so much.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. This has been so much fun.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, seriously, I've had a blast.

• 39:00Dan Pashman?

  This show is produced by me along with senior producer.

• 39:02Speaker 07

  Emma Morgenstern.

• 39:03Dan Pashman?

  And producers.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  Andres O'Hara.

• 39:05Dan Pashman?

  And. Johanna Mayer. Additional editing help from. Corinne Wallace. Our editor is. Tracy Samuelson. The show is mixed by.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Jared O'Connell.

• 39:13Dan Pashman?

  Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher. Our executive producers are Peter Clowney and Daisy Rosario. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  And I'm Aaron in Albuquerque, New Mexico, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat more better.

• 39:41Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Gianna Palmer.

• 39:43Dan Pashman?

  The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer.

• 39:47Speaker 07

  Emma Morgenstern.

• 39:48Dan Pashman?

  And senior producer.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Andres O'Hara.

• 39:50Dan Pashman?

  Our engineer is.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Jared O'Connell.

• 39:52Dan Pashman?

  Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Sirius XM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, if you want to hear new episodes of The Sporkful ad-free, subscribe to Sirius XM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen to Spotify or another app of your choice. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

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• 40:50Speaker 07

  Fidelity active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com/activeetfs. Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully.

• 41:34Speaker 07

  While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.