Meat Pies In Sweeney Todd On Broadway! (Reheat)

The musical Sweeney Todd is about a barber who goes on a killing spree and disposes of his victims by baking them into meat pies. In an off-Broadway production, they serve you an actual meat pie before the show begins. Dr. Pamela Dalton, a researcher at the Monell Chemical Senses Center, helps us understand how food flavors and smells can affect our brains while we’re watching this kind of immersive theater.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  Sirius XM Podcasts.

• 1:12Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here with a reheat for you. And I love when we do episodes where we get into food in surprising ways. These are some of my favorites. And there's a somewhat long and elaborate history of theater pieces, plays, musicals, art performances using food in creative ways. Just a few weeks ago, we talked to Grace Pack, the cake designer who was on Is It Cake? She was doing the America 250 cake. And she talked about how early in her career, she was like a performance artist who used food. There's a recent play by Lynn Nottage called Clyde's that's set in a truck stop sandwich shop. And a lot of the show is about different characters trying to craft the perfect sandwich as a form of sort of redemption. So I think it's really cool, interesting when performances use food in these ways. And this episode we're going to share today,

• 1:57Dan Pashman?

  this one breaks the mold. This one features a very special production of the musical Sweeney Todd. This is the one where a killer barber bakes his victims into meat pies. And in this production, they served actual meat pies before the show began. Were they any good? Did they enhance the experience of seeing the play? You're gonna have to keep listening to find out. And as always, remember, if there's a Sporkful episode you want us to reheat, we take requests. Drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks and enjoy.

• 2:30Dan Pashman?

  Tell me a little more about the preparation of the veggie pie.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Sure. We use about, oh my gosh, it must be at least 12 different vegetables. If you'd like, I can show them to you.

• 2:40Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, that'd be great.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Come into the walk-in.

• 2:41Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. I'm in a kitchen in a warehouse in Queens with Chef Bill Yassis. He's making dozens of meat pies and veggie pies. Now, Chef Bill's pretty famous. He's worked in some of the finest kitchens in New York. He was the White House pastry chef for seven years. But these pies aren't bound for a trendy bakery or state dinner. These pies are headed for Broadway.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd.

• 3:17Speaker 03

  He served a dark and avenged for God.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  What happened then? Well, that's the play, and he wouldn't want us to give it away.

• 3:27Dan Pashman?

  Well, I'm sorry to say I am going to have to give some of it away. You see, these pies play a key role in a new production of the musical Sweeney Todd. It's a show about a barber who goes on a killing spree and disposes of his victims by baking them into meat pies. And in this production, before the show begins, they serve you an actual meat pie or veggie pie, the very pies Chef Bill is making right now. All right, we're in the walk-in fridge.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  We have these purple cauliflowers. We have chanterelle mushrooms, regular button mushrooms, these beautiful purple carrots, deep, deep purple, scallions, parsley, yellow carrots, tarragon.

• 4:07Dan Pashman?

  So I noticed purple cauliflower and purple carrots. Why did you want the inside of your veggie pies to be purple?

• 4:13Speaker 02

  That is, you're very quick. They do, the juice does ooze kind of red.

• 4:19Dan Pashman?

  Oh, to look like blood?

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Well, you said it, not me.

• 4:28Dan Pashman?

  Today on the Sporkful, we take you behind the scenes of a new production of Sweeney Todd.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Somebody the other day looked at the pies and said, is that last night's audience?

• 4:38Dan Pashman?

  That might hurt ticket sales.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  You're probably right. I better stop now.

• 4:44Dan Pashman?

  Plus, we'll talk with a scientist about how food flavors and smells can affect our brains when we're watching a show. Then I'll go to the theater with my friend Helen Rosner from Eater. We will eat the pies, we will watch the show, and we'll tell you all about it. How do you suspect that eating this meat pie will affect your experience watching the play?

• 5:03Speaker 04

  I will not be hungry at intermission.

• 5:05Dan Pashman?

  That's all coming up. Stick around.

• 5:14Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. The story of Sweeney Todd dates back to mid-1800s England. Over the years, it's been a drama, a silent film, a ballet. But these days, if you're seeing it anywhere, you're probably seeing some variation on the 1979 Broadway musical by Stephen Sondheim. That was the basis for the Tim Burton film version starring Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter. Now, this production we're featuring today started in London, but it didn't start in a theater. It started in a meat pie shop called Harrington's that's been in London for over 100 years. A group started performing Sweeney Todd in the pie shop in the evenings after it closed. There were only 32 seats for each show.

• 5:59Dan Pashman?

  They did it with just a few instruments backing them and no microphones. Word started to spread, and eventually it was moved to a theater. But when they decided to bring the show to New York, they wanted some of that pie shop experience. So they recreated Harrington's Pie Shop inside the Barrow Street Theater, which, by the way, is technically off-Broadway. I took some poetic license earlier when I said Broadway. Anyway, the meat pie that Chef Bill Yassis makes at this show is a truffle chicken pie. The veggie pie has truffles too. And that really caught my attention because truffles have a unique smell that comes mostly from a compound called androstenone. It's in very few foods, but it's a common component of human body odors.

• 6:41Dan Pashman?

  So seems to me, if you wanted to create a sensation of eating people, you'd want truffles in there somewhere. I asked Bill if that's why he included them.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Well, it's funny you bring it up because I'm fascinated by the whole subject of olfaction. And it is, it's one of the things that is, you know, really scientists are getting very involved with for the first time. But we do know that it's the most ancient part of the brain. It's a primitive brain that before even mammals existed, olfaction was the primary sensory device for experiencing the world.

• 7:15Dan Pashman?

  Was that part of your thought process in adding them to this recipe? That it might help to suggest the idea of eating people?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  No, that's farther than I have gone. But really, my desire was deliciousness.

• 7:32Dan Pashman?

  Maybe it was subconscious on your part that you added it.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Perhaps, yes.

• 7:37Dan Pashman?

  Do you ever get tired of cooking the same thing every day?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it's sort of, I suppose, like maybe a musician that has to play the same piece. You know, you dig in deep and you try to see what can you improve? You know, today I cooked the carrots differently. I sauteed them instead of roasting them.

• 7:53Dan Pashman?

  Why?

• 7:53Speaker 02

  You always look, well, the roasting seemed fine, but then I thought, maybe with these carrots, we might get a little more flavor if we hit them with a lot of heat in the frying pan and olive oil. And that's the challenge of being a chef, is that even though you're making the same dish, you try to really dig in and improve it.

• 8:12Dan Pashman?

  So these pies I'm going to be eating tonight that you're making with this new approach to the carrots, these could be the best ones you've ever made.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Could be. We hope so.

• 8:20Dan Pashman?

  There's hoping.

• 8:26Dan Pashman?

  Later in the show, we'll take you to the theater and find out exactly how those pies tasted. But first, I wanted to learn more about what happens in our brains during this kind of immersive theater. I mean, is this all just a fun and delicious gimmick? Or can smelling and eating a food before a show actually make the show better?

• 8:44Speaker 05

  I think that adding an olfactory component to a live performance is incredibly powerful.

• 8:52Dan Pashman?

  This is Dr. Pam Dalton from the Monell Chemical Senses Center. She's a psychologist who studies how your brain processes smells.

• 8:59Speaker 05

  I really think it's raising the adrenaline level of the audience. I mean, it's a very interactive performance, as I understand it anyway. But you know, actually having people consume, you know, the ultimate conceit in the show is really, really challenging.

• 9:17Dan Pashman?

  You said you think it will raise the adrenaline level of the audience. I mean, do you mean that literally, having eaten that food will have that kind of chemical effect on our bodies?

• 9:27Speaker 05

  I think just the knowledge that you've consumed this pie and you didn't make it, someone provided it to you. You might be sitting there wondering exactly what the ingredients were, therefore having a little bit more arousal than normal. It's this sort of tussle between the very logical cognitive part of our brain and the emotional center that's been activated by these flavors.

• 9:57Dan Pashman?

  And am I right that there's a strong connection between olfaction and the parts of our brain that handle emotion? Is that right?

• 10:05Speaker 05

  Yes. The olfactory system is really part of the limbic system, which includes the amygdala and the hippocampus where memories are stored, and that's where we experience emotion. So anytime you smell something or taste something that has flavor, which is primarily olfaction, you have the possibility of engaging this emotional system, particularly when you've already been given some expectations or explanations about what you might be eating. One of the things that's unique about smell is that we often experience it without being consciously aware of what we're smelling. So it becomes sort of like the background to many of our everyday experiences.

• 10:49Speaker 05

  But what happens is we don't realize just how powerful that is until it's gone or until it's introduced in a setting where we don't normally expect it, like a theater setting. And then, all of a sudden, it's like people say, "The exhibit came alive to me."

• 11:05Dan Pashman?

  So a smell in a theater can have a similar effect as the music in a movie. You don't always notice what's playing in the background, but if it's, let's say, really intense, you may move towards the edge of your seat without even realizing it. And Sweeney Todd isn't the first show to use the scent of food in this way. In fact, there's a musical on Broadway right now called Waitress where they bake a pie before every show, so when you walk into the theater, it smells like fresh pie. They actually just got a book deal. They're making a waitress-themed cookbook now. And this goes at least as far back as the 1920s or 30s. Back then, theaters experimented with introducing perfume and other scents at a key moment in a play or a movie. Of course, the most famous example of all this is smell-a-vision. Yeah, I didn't realize it was a real thing either. I thought it was a joke.

• 11:49Dan Pashman?

  But smell-a-vision was a real thing. It was used in a single film in 1960 called Scent of Mystery. It involved 30 different odors. But Dr. Dalton says the problem with smell-a-vision was that once they pumped a scent into a room, they couldn't get it out. Now, she says, the technology for using smells is getting a lot better.

• 12:08Speaker 05

  Well, certainly in virtual reality, that has become more and more incorporated in trying to really flesh out an entire experience. We did a show down at the Seaport Museum where we odorized the boat with the smell of diesel exhaust, the submarine, for example. The one odor I wanted to put in there was stinky body odor, because that would have been one of the most prevalent odors on a submarine that was out for many, you know, for many weeks submerged, et cetera. Although, the people at the museum kind of frowned on that. But everyone who experienced it said that it really made it feel like they were in a

• 12:50Speaker 05

  living, breathing, you know, experience that had more validity to it than just something without the sense of smell.

• 13:03Dan Pashman?

  That's Dr. Pam Dalton from the Monell Chemical Senses Center. Coming up, I'll eat a meat pie and see Sweeney Todd. Plus, we'll look at food and theater from a different perspective when I talk to a group of Broadway actors. Tell me about your pre-show eating routines.

• 13:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I can't eat three hours before the curtain, otherwise I'll just perform in pain after the show. It's too late at night, so I can't eat then either. I'm so hungry.

• 13:30Dan Pashman?

  That's coming up. Stick around.

• 13:47Dan Pashman?

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• 15:18Dan Pashman?

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• 16:33Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Want to watch me walking my dog while ranting about some food-related issue that's on my mind? Want to see what I'm cooking? Want to see what I'm eating? The best way to do that is to follow me on Instagram. My kids make occasional appearances, there's a lot of fun to be had, so please follow me on Instagram, @thesporful. Again, that's @thesporful. Thanks. Now, back to this week's reheat.

• 17:02Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. So, in a minute, we'll go to Sweeney Todd and see how food can affect your experience at a show. But it turns out, food can also affect the people on stage. A while back, I was asked to play a really small part in a live reading of A Christmas Carol. The real parts were reserved for real actors, which was definitely for the best because I'm a terrible actor. But working with real actors made me so curious about every aspect of how they do what they do, including what they eat before they perform. So backstage one night, I pulled out my mic. I talked with Jefferson Mays. He's a Tony-nominated actor, currently on Broadway in Oslo. He's also done a bunch of TV shows, including The Americans. He shared this story.

• 17:47Dan Pashman?

  I was in Southern California, and I ate a bad fish

• 17:50Speaker 07

  Taco, three hours before going on stage. And it was a new play. It was opening night, actually, of a new play and La Jolla Playhouse. And I was playing a barfly. So did a little table opposite the main character, who gave a very lovely, sort of vaguely sentimental monologue about losing a partner. And I was supposed to, he turned to me and said, and what do you think, Richie? And I remember seizing the ashtray and projectile vomiting into it spectacularly. And the lights came down and the wagon rolled back. And, um, and that was the end of the scene. And the audience thought that people came up to me and said, how did you keep so much cream of corn in your mouth? And, and speak at the beginning of the scene?

• 18:35Speaker 07

  It was amazing.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Every show is, is different, I think, in what, uh, what I, what I find to eat because of the clothes that I'm wearing.

• 18:47Dan Pashman?

  This is Marin Mazzy. She's been in a bunch of Broadway musicals. She's best known for her star turn in Kiss Me Kate.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  I wear very tight clothes. And so that, I, I really want to feel like I've eaten nothing, you know? So it's like the balancing, trying to figure out what actually fuels me to do a show, because I need a lot of energy. And then, so it is about like how far back I eat. I also have a belching problem, which of course, in your singing, you're taking in so much air. And sometimes when you're wearing corsets, you know, having the, the corset pushing against your diaphragm as you're, as you're inhaling and exhaling, there just tends, I don't know, a lot of, lot of air. So it's, it's a, it's a science.

• 19:27Speaker 06

  The life of a musical theater actor is very athletic.

• 19:32Dan Pashman?

  This is Marin's husband, Jason Danieli. He's also a longtime Broadway performer.

• 19:36Speaker 06

  You have to be asked to do physical things and then create a beautiful sustained sound that sounds effortless. So to do that, you have to be extremely fit and also relaxed at the same time. And the only way to really do that is to, of course, work out, but also be very careful what you put into your body.

• 19:54Dan Pashman?

  So Jason, walk me through your typical pre-show eating routine.

• 20:00Speaker 06

  Well, the pre-show starts first thing in the morning because I don't eat much during the whole day leading up to an eight o'clock curtain. On a matinee day, it, it starts at breakfast as well, but a light breakfast and then workout. And then I eat my dinner slash lunch around four o'clock. And then I don't eat until after the performance. And then I really, I really hit it hard.

• 20:25Dan Pashman?

  Jefferson, tell me about your pre-show eating routine.

• 20:29Speaker 07

  Well, again, yeah, I suppose it, it starts shortly after getting up in the morning. I think, I think actors, people perceive actors quite unfairly in that we loaf them around all day and, and do nothing and then just work for a mere two hours and then go home to bed, whereas it's a constant getting ready for the evening. I like to eat sort of huge farmer's meal in the middle of the day, in which I can pretty much eat anything I want, because it's all going to be burned off by the time I get to the theater. And then before going on stage, maybe an hour beforehand, I'll have salmon sushi for this, this wonderful protein rush. And it, it makes me feel fantastic.

• 21:10Dan Pashman?

  Do you ever find that the character you're playing at a given time changes the types of foods that you eat during the day?

• 21:18Speaker 07

  I was playing an Englishman in a, in a play recently, not a terribly well man. And I would start off the day eating a full English breakfast. Baked beans, fried tomatoes, mushrooms, fried eggs, you know, sausage and bacon. And it made me feel sort of greasy and, and lethargic. And it, it kind of helped. Yeah, yeah, sort of puffy and, yeah. And that, and I, yeah, I suppose so for that one role I did.

• 21:58Dan Pashman?

  Now to Sweeney Todd. Like I said, Harrington's Pie Shop has been recreated inside the Barrow Street Theater. And I gotta say, I read that they did that, but in my head, I was still picturing like, okay, we'll come in, we'll eat the pies in this faux pie shop, then we'll go into a regular theater for the show. No, the entire theater is a pie shop. All the seats are at long dinner tables or counters. The walls are a faded yellow color, as if the place has been there for over a hundred years. But what really overwhelms you when you walk in is the smell. I brought my friend Helen Rosner from eater.com.

• 22:34Speaker 04

  It smells like pie crust.

• 22:35Dan Pashman?

  Yes.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  It smells like buttery, flaky pie crust or possibly pressed pie crust.

• 22:41Dan Pashman?

  But there's also something a little bit acrid? Is that the word?

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:48Dan Pashman?

  It could be the burning human flesh component.

• 22:50Speaker 04

  You never know.

• 22:52Dan Pashman?

  As you step into the pie shop slash theater. Hello, welcome to the pie shop. They serve you a pie from the same counter that will be part of the show when it begins. And Chef Bill Yassis is right there, dishing out his goods.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  This one is your meat pie. This one is your vegetarian pie. You can tell the difference because it has Parmesan on the top for the veg.

• 23:11Dan Pashman?

  What was that you just sprinkled on top?

• 23:13Speaker 02

  That's truffle zest. So it's freeze dried truffle that has been ground into a zest. And we place it on the top. The green sauce is a parsley sauce. One of the things that I particularly love about this show is that the other senses besides sight and hearing are involved. So there's taste and smell that's part of your sensory experience in this theater. So they're, they're all, they're all in. They're, they're really, you know, surrounded by this experience. It makes the theatrical experience later, I think, much more effective.

• 23:54Dan Pashman?

  All right, Helen, should we dig in? Now just imagine, Helen, it's people, it's people, you're eating people, you're eating people.

• 24:01Speaker 04

  I'm sold. I would eat people again. That's fantastic.

• 24:05Dan Pashman?

  Isn't that the best people you ever ate?

• 24:06Speaker 04

  I love it. These must, these people must have done yoga and gotten massages regularly and eaten clean and.

• 24:12Dan Pashman?

  Either that or they were like kept in pens that they couldn't walk around in. So they turned soft and fatty.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  One or the other.

• 24:16Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  I prefer free range people who were, lived happy lives and were slaughtered mainly.

• 24:21Dan Pashman?

  That's very ethical of you. Now I'm going to take a bite of the veggie.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  I think I like the veggie one better.

• 24:29Dan Pashman?

  Pound for pound flavor. Take another bite of the chicken. Pound for pound flavor, I think the veggie one is more interesting to eat. Like if I was going to eat one of these again, for pure flavor pleasure, I love the veggie. I love them both. But for this, this immersive experience that we're taking part in, I go chicken.

• 24:47Speaker 04

  The chicken pie has recognizable flavors of chicken and celery and carrot. The veggie pie has a lot going on, to the point where if you told me it was people, I might believe you, given the right context.

• 25:02Dan Pashman?

  Interesting.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  It is unfamiliar enough that I would be open to suggestion. But the chicken pie, I'm just like, this is a chicken pie.

• 25:08Dan Pashman?

  I feel like the right way to take part in this experience is for people to try to pretend.

• 25:14Speaker 04

  Well, so this, this is an interesting question about how deep into the narrative we want to go, because the whole premise of Sweeney Todd is that they know that they're making the pies out of people, but the guests in the pie shop don't. So if I truly want to be in character as an audience member who is presumably a customer of this pie shop, the very pie shop where Sweeney Todd creates his demonic pies, I don't know they're made out of people. I think it's just your standard, pretty good neighborhood pie shop. I've stumped you. I just won your podcast.

• 25:53Dan Pashman?

  Yes, you're right. And that's true. Yeah, it's technically true. I think you need to find the right place on the spectrum of willing suspension of disbelief.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. I will say that eating this pie definitely gets me into a mood of working class England. The combination of the enamel plates and the pie itself and the potato that it's served with, and the fact that the potato is sort of smeared onto the plate and not beautifully plated. All of this atmospherically is taking me out of Lower Manhattan and putting me closer into the world that the musical takes place in.

• 26:26Dan Pashman?

  Before the show began, I talked to some audience members. I was really disappointed to find no fingernail or teeth in my pie, you know? I would expect a little bit more. So I was a little disappointed, but you know, the chicken was stringy enough that it made me wonder, you know? So, so, yeah.

• 26:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I was definitely doing a little bit of examination on the meat there, sort of.

• 26:47Dan Pashman?

  What were you hoping for?

• 26:48Speaker 05

  Ah, well, you know, I mean, we all sort of, I'm sure, were hoping that there would be a little bit of sort of an intangible something to it that we couldn't quite, I mean, we were sort of discussing that there was a spice in there that we couldn't quite put our fingers on, so.

• 27:03Dan Pashman?

  Blood.

• 27:09Dan Pashman?

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• 27:54Dan Pashman?

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• 28:49Speaker 05

  Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

• 29:24Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. All right. Curtains up. It's time now for Sweeney Todd.

• 29:33Dan Pashman?

  Pretty soon, it was time for the show to begin. The theater, done up like a pie shop, seats little over 100 people. Pretty small. Like I said, the show is performed with no microphones and just a few instruments. There's not even a stage. The performers walk around the pie shop, sometimes jumping up on the tables, sometimes putting their faces just inches away from audience members. The whole thing is intense.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  They all deserve to die. Tell you why, Mrs. Lovett, tell you why. Because in all of the whole human race, Mrs. Lovett, there are two kinds of men and only two. There's the one staying poor, telling his brother place, and the one with his foot on the other one's face. Look at me, Mrs. Lovett, look at you. We all deserve to die.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  Get control of yourself.

• 30:23Dan Pashman?

  In this song, Sweeney Todd's accomplice, Mrs. Lovett, makes a proposal for what to do with the body of one of Sweeney's victims.

• 30:31Speaker 04

  Sometimes ideas just pop into my head and I keep thinking, seems a downright shame.

• 30:42Speaker 04

  Seems an awful waste. Such a nice plump frame, what's his name as? Add.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  As.

• 30:54Dan Pashman?

  Later in the song, she starts ticking off potential menu items like shepherd's pie peppered with actual shepherd.

• 31:00Speaker 04

  It's the fob, finest in the shop. All the shepherd's pie peppered with actual shepherd on top. And it's just begun. Is a politician so oily, it's served with the doily, not one.

• 31:14Dan Pashman?

  Then, as the song ends, Sweeney sings, "We won't discriminate great from small. We'll serve anyone at all."

• 31:21Speaker 03

  No, we'll serve anyone.

• 31:23Speaker 04

  Me, anyone.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  And to anyone at all.

• 31:44Dan Pashman?

  After the show, I talked with some audience members. How did the experience of having eaten a meat pie before the show affect your experience of watching the show?

• 31:52Speaker 05

  It puts you in a place where you have to think about, you know, the people who prepare food for you, the people who do things like shave you, I guess, not so much these days anymore. But, you know, you really realize that you're at the mercy of the people you don't really know too much about. They might be a little darker than you'd imagine.

• 32:12Dan Pashman?

  I felt like I could feel my belly the whole time. You know what I mean? I could feel the meat pie sitting in my belly in that moment where you're seeing everyone saying like, God, that's good. And like pounding on the table for pies. You suddenly have that moment of being like, that was me, what, an hour ago? That was me sitting in the chair being like, oh, this is good. I wanted more gravy with mine, you know? And if you knew that it was in fact, you know, somebody's trachea, you might think a little differently. So, yeah.

• 32:42Dan Pashman?

  All right, Helen, what are your thoughts?

• 32:45Speaker 04

  I felt like I was a participant in a non-trivial kind of way. Also, like, I like the idea of thematically attaching my dinner to my entertainment. Like, that's, I like that. It appeals to me on a deep resonant level.

• 33:05Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, I'm with you on that. I have to say, I didn't feel that the like whole concept of the people being in the pie was any more gross or intense or visceral, because it's not like you really ever see even the, it's something that would suggest people being ground up. But there's a lot of discussion of just like, here, have a pie. Pie is delicious. Eat this pie. Everyone's eating the pie.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  And there were, you know, useful cooking tips, like grind your meat three times for maximum tenderness.

• 33:31Dan Pashman?

  Especially if it's human.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  I can take that home with me. Like, that's news I can use.

• 33:36Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, yeah. But I, I did feel like every time someone mentioned meat pie, I had an immediate visceral reaction.

• 33:44Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Yeah. Instant sense memory.

• 33:47Dan Pashman?

  Yes. That enhanced the experience. I would say that that enhanced the experience of seeing the play.

• 33:51Speaker 04

  100%. I totally agree. I think that not everybody in the audience got a pie ahead of time. And I think the folks who didn't made the wrong call.

• 34:11Dan Pashman?

  My thanks to Helen Rosner. She's the executive editor of eater.com, where she and her colleagues do some fantastic work. Helen's one of those really annoying people who's kind of self effacing. And then like every third sentence she says, he just sort of like blurts something out. And it's like the smartest thing anyone's said to you that whole week. So Helen, thanks for being as annoying slash brilliant as ever on our podcast. She's also the co host of the Eater Up sell podcast, where she and Greg Morabito interview a wide range of people in the food world. Check it out. This show is produced by Anne Sannity and me. Editing help from Dan Charles. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher. Our executive producers are Chris Bannon and Jenny Rattlet. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman. And I'm Jason Grissell from Houston,

• 34:54Dan Pashman?

  Texas, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 35:18Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer

• 35:26Speaker 07

  Andres O'Hara.

• 35:27Dan Pashman?

  Our technical director is

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Jared O'Connell.

• 35:29Dan Pashman?

  Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app includes all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 36:11Speaker 05

  Fidelity Active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com/activeetfs. Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to

• 36:56Speaker 05

  outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

• 37:12Speaker 05

  This podcast is supported by Nurtec ODT. Remedy Pant. We know you didn't ask for an interruption, but migraine doesn't wait for the right moment to interrupt either. It just barges in, takes your time and throws everything off. So when migraine takes your time, take Nurtec. It's for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura in adults. Nurtec can provide pain relief in two hours, which can last up to two days. Ask your healthcare provider if Nurtec is right for you, because your time is for you, not migraine. Don't take if allergic to Nurtec ODT. Allergic reactions can occur even days after use. Get help right away for trouble breathing, rash, swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or throat. High blood pressure and Raynaud's syndrome can occur. Get help for high blood pressure, numbness, coolness, pain, or

• 37:56Speaker 05

  color changes in fingers and toes. Common side effect is nausea. For full prescribing information, call 1-833-4-NURTEC or visit nurtec.com. All right, back to your podcast playlist or whatever's keeping you going today.