Pod Insights The Sporkful 2 Chefs And A Lie 2026 With NPR’s Rachel Martin About this episode We’re back with our annual game show: Two Chefs And A Lie! This year our contestant is Rachel Martin, host of the NPR podcast Wild Card and an old friend of Dan’s. The game goes like this: Rachel talks with three guests.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Dan Pashman? As someone who has been lucky enough to go to Napa Valley, I can tell you, it's everything people say it is. Beautiful scenery, quaint, beautiful towns, and phenomenal food and drink everywhere you go. I don't even know that much about wine, but I know that every glass of wine I had in Napa Valley was excellent. I mean, there's no bad glass of wine and no bad meal. Choose between hundreds of wineries, tasting rooms, and chef-led restaurants from a low-key lunch on a vineyard terrace to a full tasting menu paired by the winemaker. Plan your trip at visitnapavalley.com.
0:32 Dan Pashman? I grew up on Land O' Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Land O' Lakes American cheese. And now, Land O' Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Land O' Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Land O' Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking. Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.
1:04 Speaker 01 Sirius XM Podcasts.
1:12 Dan Pashman? It's an indication of how much I wanted you to be on this episode, Rachel, that I agreed to an 11 a.m. taping. This is my least favorite time of day.
1:20 Speaker 01 Is that right? Tell me more about that. Why?
1:23 Dan Pashman? Well, it cuts into my lunch. All right.
1:25 Speaker 01 You're right. We are taping this in the middle of every mainstream opportunity for lunching.
1:31 Dan Pashman? That's right, because we're gonna at least go till 12:30.
1:33 Speaker 01 Right.
1:34 Dan Pashman? And...
1:34 Speaker 01 And that's apparently too late for you.
1:36 Dan Pashman? Well, I get hungry. I don't know, I'm not a big breakfast eater, so usually the first meal I eat of the day is around noon.
1:42 Speaker 01 Right.
1:42 Dan Pashman? I gotta have a snack before the taping, and then I can't really eat till at least 1.
1:46 Speaker 01 And then your whole day's off.
1:48 Dan Pashman? Let me tell you something.
1:48 Speaker 01 Because then, like, maybe you've eaten lunch too late, and now you're gonna have a really late dinner, and then you're not gonna sleep well.
1:53 Dan Pashman? Yes, only for you, Rachel.
1:55 Speaker 01 Sorry, man.
1:56 Dan Pashman? And maybe like Michelle Obama.
1:58 Speaker 01 We're the same.
1:59 Dan Pashman? Yeah.
2:00 Speaker 01 We're definitely the same.
2:00 Dan Pashman? You two are on the same level.
2:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, totally.
2:08 Dan Pashman? This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And if it's summertime on The Sporkful, that means it's time to play our annual game show, Two Chefs at a Life.
2:27 Dan Pashman? Now, let's go ahead and meet our contestants. We've been friends for nearly 20 years, ever since we worked together at NPR way back when. You've heard her hosting All Things Considered and Morning Edition. Now, she's the host of the excellent podcast Wild Card. Please welcome Rachel Martin.
2:44 Speaker 01 I mean, does it matter that I never hosted All Things Considered?
2:48 Dan Pashman? You hosted Weekend All Things Considered?
2:50 Speaker 01 No. No.
2:51 Dan Pashman? What was the thing that I was on with you?
2:52 Speaker 01 Weekend Edition Sunday.
2:54 Dan Pashman? What was the thing that I was on with you?
2:56 Speaker 01 Weekend Edition Sunday.
2:57 Dan Pashman? You never once hosted ATC?
2:59 Speaker 01 I mean, I filled in.
3:00 Dan Pashman? All right, well, then, fine then. I'm not redoing the intro.
3:05 Speaker 01 Let's count it!
3:06 Dan Pashman? All right, all right.
3:07 Speaker 01 We're counting it.
3:07 Dan Pashman? I'm giving you credit for it.
3:08 Speaker 01 I love it.
3:09 Dan Pashman? So, we go way back, Rachel. We became friends when we worked together at NPR. You are now hosting this podcast, Wild Card, which is described as part-interview, part-existential game show. I love it so much. For folks who haven't heard it, though, like, what's your elevator pitch? How would you describe it to people beyond that log line?
3:26 Speaker 01 Let's be honest, it's a celebrity interview show, but we just tried to rip up the script for how those things usually go.
3:32 Dan Pashman? But it usually goes into a lot more depth than the typical celebrity interview show. Yes, your show does.
3:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, for sure. By design. Because we decided that we were just gonna ask the questions we most wanted to ask. And the best way to do that was to put them on cards, like, really deep questions that force people who have been interviewed a whole lot in their careers to get off their talking points and to stop deploying the same anecdotes that they always deploy. And so, they're really deep existential questions about how much fear is in your life and what have you learned about love over time? And what do you think happens when we die? So, it's big stuff.
4:13 Dan Pashman? Yeah, and the game show component is that you tell people, pick a card, one, two, or three, and whatever card they pick, that's the question.
4:20 Speaker 01 The cards control the conversation. I mean, I sort of do, but the cards, it's like a choose your own adventure kind of thing. And each one really is different. So it's really surprising, which is also what I just selfishly wanted in my own life, like to be surprised by conversations.
4:34 Dan Pashman? Right.
4:34 Speaker 01 And these go all over the place.
4:37 Dan Pashman? They do, and that's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of it. And I think you shine in it as the host, so I hope everyone will check out.
4:41 Speaker 01 Thanks, man.
4:42 Dan Pashman? Now, Rachel, we picked you for this partly because you host what is effectively a game show, and this is a game show, but it's sort of this porkful. You have been interviewing people for many decades, including what you, I'm sure you've interviewed sitting members of Congress, cabinet members. Have you interviewed a president?
4:58 Speaker 01 I interviewed Hamid Karzai, who was the president of Afghanistan at the time.
5:03 Dan Pashman? I'll count it. I'll count it. Okay.
5:04 Speaker 01 And Joe Biden, but he was a candidate at the time.
5:07 Dan Pashman? Okay, so you've interviewed some big, important people.
5:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:10 Dan Pashman? And so you have interviewing skills. You are experienced at pulling details out of people, and we're going to call upon those skills today.
5:17 Speaker 01 Okay.
5:17 Dan Pashman? You have this look on your face like, what have I gotten myself into?
5:19 Speaker 01 I don't even know.
5:20 Dan Pashman? Here's how this game works. It's like two truths and a lie, but it's two chefs and a lie. We're going to have three people on Zoom. They're all coming to us today from Austin. You're going to meet one at a time. They're each going to share a brief intro about themselves, and then you're going to get to ask each of them five questions, only five.
5:36 Speaker 01 Okay.
5:37 Dan Pashman? Then you have to guess which one is not the real chef, which one is the liar.
5:43 Speaker 01 I love it.
5:43 Dan Pashman? And now, while you are our on-air contestant, I want to remind our listeners, you're all encouraged to play at home. See if you can spot the liar. Couple more quick details I want to cover. The guests we're going to talk to are joining us by Zoom, but their cameras are off. You will not be getting any more information than our listeners are getting. Of course, no Google, no AI, no performance-enhancing use of technology. And finally, I do want to note that while I am the emcee of this game, I do not know who the liar is.
6:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
6:08 Dan Pashman? So that's what we're doing here, Rachel. Before we get to our first chef, what are your thoughts? What's the strat, as the kids would say?
6:15 Speaker 01 Well, I'm going to tell you. That I fancy myself, someone who is, is pretty good at understanding human nature. Does that feel braggy? Maybe it is. I don't know. I've spent a lot of time talking with people.
6:31 Dan Pashman? Right.
6:31 Speaker 01 And you start to learn about people. And I've talked to a lot of politicians in my time. And so I can sort of tell when someone's fudging the truth. I'm just saying, I'm gonna listen very, very carefully. I'm very hardcore.
6:50 Dan Pashman? All right, Rachel, you've heard the rules. You've laid out your strat. It's time to play Two Chefs and a Lie.
7:03 Dan Pashman? Let's meet our first chef in Austin. It's Vera. Hello, Vera.
7:09 Speaker 02 Oh, hello.
7:10 Dan Pashman? So Vera, tell us a little bit about yourself.
7:13 Speaker 02 So I'm a chef based in north part of Austin, in Georgetown. I own and operate a couple of restaurants, actually four now. And this has been a passion project that has turned into a good, you know, supporting my life, you know, with it. And along the way, I'm having fun. I'm studying wine. I just passed my certified SAAM test. So I'm, I'm just enjoying the ride here, man, and making a living out of it.
7:43 Dan Pashman? SAAM is a sommelier, Rachel.
7:45 Speaker 01 Oh. She just made up a crazy word that I don't think is real. Turns out it is.
7:55 Dan Pashman? All right. So you've heard Vera's intro, Rachel. You now get five questions.
7:59 Speaker 01 I get five questions. Okay, Vera.
8:04 Speaker 01 Tell me about the difficulty of opening your first restaurant. What was the biggest challenge?
8:12 Speaker 02 The biggest challenge, you know, I went in with not knowing what the restaurant world is, was at the time. I don't come from a restaurant background. I actually come from. A finance and engineering background. I went in thinking this is, this is something I really love and I'm really passionate about it. So I came from a very different attitude that it's like not knowing what could go wrong. Kind of saved me because I wasn't, I wasn't trained. Or I didn't work in a restaurant so far, like my naiveness actually helped me open a restaurant.
8:51 Speaker 02 But then later on in two years gone in, I was like, oh, I didn't know about that. So it's almost like I learned. Uh, like on the job and that probably was my biggest challenge.
9:03 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. And can you describe? The most obscure menu item on, let's say your second restaurant.
9:16 Speaker 02 I mean, I don't go out trying to find obscure menu items to put it in my restaurant. Um, cause you know, restaurant has to have a theme. So I, I wouldn't say like I'm, I'm going to put something like I would see on bizarre food.
9:32 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. Okay, let's change it. Just do, let's change the question to your favorite, your favorite menu item from your second restaurant.
9:39 Dan Pashman? I'll allow this change in the question.
9:41 Speaker 01 Oh, thanks.
9:42 Dan Pashman? We'll call this question two B.
9:44 Speaker 01 Thank you.
9:44 Speaker 02 Two B, okay. Um, and you said what's your favorite? Is that what you asked me?
9:49 Speaker 01 Favorite menu item, second restaurant.
9:51 Speaker 02 Second restaurant, favorite menu item. You know, it has to be scallops. Hokkaido scallops from Japan, fresh scallops with a little bit of a romesco sauce. And you know cauliflower with salsa matcha. I think that's my favorite because it combines two, three. Different culture into one dish and it's ends up really delicious.
10:15 Speaker 01 What differentiates a Hokkaido scallop from other scallops besides its origin?
10:23 Dan Pashman? This is question three.
10:24 Speaker 02 Uh, the taste, the size, um, you know, the texture, it's a, it's a lot creamier. Um, sweeter, it's medium size. You know, it could be bigger if it's U ten, but.
10:40 Speaker 02 They're not the small scallops.
10:43 Speaker 01 Okay, I want you to tell me the life story as you know it of the manager of your newest restaurant.
10:51 Dan Pashman? Oh.
10:53 Speaker 02 Life story, oh, perfect. Um, very young girl, she is um for the restaurant industry, I think she's twenty six, twenty seven. Born in Puerto Rico. Uh, her father is an actual, actually, they own an art gallery in uh Puerto Rico. And she, she comes from a very artistic background, um, and I think she brings that into the job where everything is, you know, she makes sure that everything is nice and pretty. So I can see that artistic side in her. Uh, not so much of a restaurant management background, a traditional way. And I think that brings a really great dynamic, you know, so.
11:35 Speaker 02 Um, I love working with her, she's always giving me a different perspective. And it's almost like I'm also learning from her, you know, her, her background in um, operating or helping her dad at art gallery.
11:50 Speaker 01 Hmm.
11:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
11:51 Speaker 01 Okay. Last question.
11:53 Dan Pashman? Question for you, one more question, Rachel.
11:54 Speaker 01 Okay. Um, tell me about your biggest failure.
12:00 Speaker 02 Um, in the restaurant industry or, okay. In the restaurant industry, well, give me a minute, let me just think through that. Biggest failure.
12:10 Speaker 01 Failure.
12:11 Speaker 02 Hmm.
12:15 Speaker 02 Yes, I will tell you that, I, I own a wine bar in small town, Belton, Texas, and um, I didn't get along with the landlord. And I did not read uh all the details in my uh lease. So when it came to end, I was supposed to give him, I don't remember, ninety day written notice, which I did, but I'd never send it as certified mail. And that kind of backfired me because we had an agreement that my rent could not go up. You know, whatever. I don't remember the exact detail at the time. But me not paying attention to those little, well, it wasn't a little detail.
13:00 Speaker 02 Um, you know, I ended up shutting down my very first wine bar because of the lease discrepancy. That was big. That was very big because since then I've opened a multiple concept. I've sold two concept, but I've not actually closed any of my restaurant. And that was very big setback for me because, you know, I felt that I failed. I should have done, you know, something different. So, yeah.
13:30 Speaker 01 Very interesting, Vera.
13:33 Dan Pashman? All right, Vera, thank you so much, Vera. We're gonna keep you on, on, on hold.
13:40 Dan Pashman? Now, Rachel, before we move on, let's just like take a step back, take stock. There was a good amount of restaurant lingo in there.
13:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:48 Dan Pashman? She called a sommelier a saum. She referred to scallops as U-ten, which I believe is like that there's ten scallops per pound, which means that they're a big scallop.
13:58 Speaker 01 Oh, interesting. That just wa- that just washed right over me, actually.
14:01 Dan Pashman? Right. I made a note of that, but those are also the kinds of things that a person could like
14:05 Speaker 01 Look up.
14:05 Dan Pashman? Google ahead of time and be like, I'm gonna drop some of this lingo to make it seem like I'm a real chef.
14:11 Speaker 01 Totally. The, the saum reference, I immediately put it in that bucket of like, oh, this is a thing she looked up to make her sound credible as part of her intro.
14:21 Dan Pashman? Right.
14:22 Speaker 01 There were other ways that she told her story that I found to be revealing.
14:29 Dan Pashman? Okay, but we're not gonna say yet what you think they revealed because like our chefs, Rachel, you are playing your cards close to the vest.
14:36 Speaker 01 That's right.
14:37 Dan Pashman? You are not divulging your strategy at this time. So we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we'll meet our next two chefs. Then Rachel, you and our listeners at home have to decide who are the chefs and who is the liar. Stick around.
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17:45 Dan Pashman? Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman, and I have an exciting update on an episode that we did a couple of months ago in Boston. Now, you may recall that one of my guests there was Matt Shearer, aka Reporter Matt, and he specializes in telling stories about Massachusetts that are quirky but also with a lot of heart. And at that live show, I gave Reporter Matt an assignment. So I went to school at Tufts, just outside Boston. That's where I first started drinking coffee, at the Dunkin' on Boston Ave in Medford.
18:11 Speaker 03 Amazing.
18:12 Dan Pashman? And for a long time, there was a guy who worked there, whose name tag read Mr. Fresh.
18:18 Speaker 03 Oh, okay.
18:19 Dan Pashman? So my initial assignment to you was find Mr. Fresh.
18:24 Speaker 03 I think I can.
18:24 Dan Pashman? I want to know where he is. I want to know if he's okay.
18:27 Speaker 03 I think I know the GM of that Dunkin' you're talking about.
18:29 Dan Pashman? Really? This was the late 90s?
18:30 Speaker 03 This GM I'm talking has been there for 40 years.
18:33 Dan Pashman? Oh, my God. This is phenomenal.
18:34 Speaker 03 I think I may have a connection.
18:35 Dan Pashman? Now, I am pleased to tell you that Reporter Matt found Mr. Fresh. He found Mr. Fresh. He made a video about it on Instagram. I'm in the video, too. It's on my Instagram grid. Check it out, and make sure you're following me on Instagram, at The Sporkful.
18:58 Dan Pashman? All right, let's return to our game show, Two Chefs and a Live. My guest, once again, is Rachel Martin, host of the NPR podcast Wild Card. Rachel, are you ready for chef number two?
19:10 Speaker 01 I'm ready for chef number two. I'm still trying to figure out where that voice comes from in your body. Like, is it from your stomach? Is it coming out of your nose? I don't know. It's like, otherworldly.
19:19 Dan Pashman? Very diaphragm. It's like, yeah. But then there's also, like, my face has to contort itself. I think probably something's happening in my throat and mouth that is, like, reverberating sound in weird ways. Who knows?
19:30 Speaker 01 I think it's a count as exercise. I think you've done your workout. Okay.
19:34 Dan Pashman? All right.
19:34 Speaker 01 I'm ready.
19:35 Dan Pashman? Once again, all of our chefs are joining us from Austin, Texas. And right now, we have chef number two. It is Chris. Hello, Chris.
19:42 Speaker 04 Hey, how's it going?
19:43 Dan Pashman? It's going well. Say hello to my friend Rachel.
19:45 Speaker 04 Hi, Rachel. Nice to meet you.
19:47 Speaker 01 Hi, nice to meet you too.
19:48 Dan Pashman? All right, Chris, give us your intro.
19:51 Speaker 04 So I have a ramen shop here in Austin, Texas that does a Japanese-Mexican fusion project.
19:58 Speaker 01 I already have so many questions.
19:59 Dan Pashman? That's it? That's the total of the intro?
20:02 Speaker 04 Sure, why not? Let's go from there.
20:03 Dan Pashman? All right, okay. All right, that's not a whole lot to go on. Rachel, you have five questions.
20:09 Speaker 01 Oh, yes. Okay, so the first one is, why Japanese-Mexican?
20:14 Speaker 04 So I had the inverse immigrant experience of many people here. I actually moved to Mexico when I was very young, and I learned English at home and Spanish at school. When I moved back to the States around 18, I ended up landing in Japanese kitchens. So it's kind of the marriage of the culture that I grew up with and then the professional discipline that I have just carried with me.
20:34 Speaker 01 Oh, this is very challenging because I have follow-up questions, Dan, and I can't ask them, can I?
20:38 Dan Pashman? No, I don't think so. No, I mean, I mean, look, you can.
20:41 Speaker 01 And let's say count it as another question.
20:43 Dan Pashman? Those will count. I mean, you know, when you start talking about multipart questions, those are a gray area in this game and also like...
20:49 Speaker 01 Chris has his own strategy, though, it's clear. Like, he's not overly talkative, Chris.
20:56 Speaker 04 Well, maybe a lot of people already know me, so I have to play it close to the vest.
21:01 Speaker 01 Interesting. Okay, that was not a question, by the way. That was just, I said a thing and he responded.
21:06 Speaker 04 That was a statement.
21:07 Dan Pashman? Not a question, not a question. But all right, Rachel, question number two.
21:11 Speaker 01 Question number two. How'd you learn to cook?
21:16 Speaker 04 I grew up in the industry. My father is a chef. He's been so for far longer than I was ever alive. He originally had a bed and breakfast up in Maine, near Acadian National Park. And then eventually, he opened a restaurant down in Mexico as well. So I've just grown up on kitchen counters my whole life. I was bussing tables and then cutting vegetables and eventually just got into it as a full career. And I actually went to ACC Culinary here in Austin.
21:44 Speaker 01 So I lived in Japan for a couple of years, and I had a favorite ramen shop. What are the ingredients of the classic Japanese ramen?
21:55 Speaker 04 Well, that's a pretty wide question because there are a bunch of different styles of ramen. So let's go off of the one that most people here in America know, which is tonkotsu. And that's like a creamy pork-based broth.
22:08 Speaker 04 You have the broth itself, which is pork bone-based. You then have a tare, which translates to seasoning. That could be soy, miso, or salt. You then have an aromatic oil, and that would be like sesame oil or, you know, pork fat infused with green onions and ginger. Those are the three liquid components. From there, you have a noodle, you have your chashu, your protein, and all of your different allium or vegetable toppings and such.
22:34 Speaker 01 Okay.
22:35 Dan Pashman? That's three questions down, Rachel. Two to go.
22:37 Speaker 01 Oh, is that three? Dang it. Okay. I feel a lot of pressure because there's so many other questions I have. All right, I'm just gonna say, I'm just gonna ask the questions that come into my mind. You said you ended up in a Japanese restaurant in America? Who hired you? And what's that person's story?
22:59 Speaker 04 So my very first kitchen job was actually at the Chipotle on Riverside here in Austin. And that obviously was a college, you know, starter job. And when I felt like I had outgrown it, I started applying to all sorts of kitchens, not necessarily Japanese. But the first one to accept me was a Japanese kitchen called Kome over on Airport Boulevard. And the Chef de Cuisine, the CDC at the time, was a man named Vince Guerra. And he actually became my professional mentor for the last three or four years, leading up to my own professional endeavors of owning my own business. But he taught me about discipline, structure. He's very much a general in the kitchen, and he taught me so much about how to lead
23:43 Speaker 04 others firmly but with respect. He's also an incredibly talented chef who's bounced around almost every Japanese restaurant I can think of in this town.
23:52 Dan Pashman? All right, Rachel, last question. Lot of pressure on this choice.
23:56 Speaker 01 Oh, my God. Okay, my last question is, explain how cooking and owning a restaurant makes your life meaningful.
24:08 Speaker 04 Well, having grown up around food my entire life, it's always been a love language. And growing up specifically in a mom and pop shop type situation was at times very stressful. But food was always the one thing that kind of brought us together around the table. And, you know, now in my adult life, food is still something that brings me joy. And, you know, I'm really thankful and blessed to say that, you know, when you love what you do, you don't really feel like you work a day in your life. And as tolling and taxing as owning a business can be, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. I have so much fun sharing food and knowledge of food with the people around me and learning
24:52 Speaker 04 from those around me as well. And it's truly, you know, the thing that brings me the most joy in life. It is a huge, huge part of who I am.
25:03 Speaker 01 Okay. Thanks, Chris.
25:05 Speaker 04 Absolutely, thank you.
25:06 Dan Pashman? Thank you, thank you so much, Chris.
25:11 Dan Pashman? Rachel, we've got one more to go. We don't need to divulge your whole strategy here, but like, what are, give me one or two things that, that stand out from that conversation with Chris that might be pushing in one direction or another.
25:24 Speaker 01 My sister worked in restaurants for many, many years. I have other friends who own restaurants. It is really hard work, even when you love it. It's really hard. And he said something sort of counter to that, and so I am thinking about it.
25:44 Dan Pashman? Interesting. All right. As you noted, he kept his answers short.
25:49 Speaker 01 He did.
25:50 Dan Pashman? On one hand, maybe it's because he's afraid if he talks too much, he'll get caught in a lie.
25:55 Speaker 01 That's right.
25:56 Dan Pashman? On the other hand, maybe he just came in with a strategy of like, I'm gonna... Trick Rachel, I'm gonna, I'm gonna act like I have something to hide.
26:05 Speaker 01 Oh, well now you're blowing my mind, Dan Pashman.
26:08 Dan Pashman? Yeah, look, I mean, you could, you could read it either way.
26:11 Speaker 01 Do these people get prizes? Is there like an incentive? Like, I need to know how invested they are in winning.
26:16 Dan Pashman? I think they're usually pretty invested. They might even be conspiring with each other.
26:20 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, that would be dirty.
26:23 Speaker 01 What if I get it wrong? I'm gonna be so embarrassed.
26:26 Dan Pashman? You, you might. I look, I, in the early days of this game, I was the contestant and I would guess. Um, and I got it wrong. The first two or three years in a row, I got it wrong.
26:35 Speaker 01 Really?
26:36 Dan Pashman? Yeah, and then I finally got it once or twice, and then we said, oh, let's mix it up. We'll have other people come in here. And last year, Rachel, we had Rachel Hampton, host of Normal Gossip on, and she also did not get it.
26:46 Speaker 01 Oh, good. Well, I'm in good company, and her name's Rachel.
26:48 Dan Pashman? Yeah, that's absolutely right. Okay, time to meet our last chef in Austin. Let's bring on Yuki.
26:54 Speaker 05 Hi.
26:55 Dan Pashman? Hi, how are you?
26:56 Speaker 05 Doing well. How are you doing today?
26:57 Dan Pashman? Good. Say hi to my friend Rachel.
26:59 Speaker 05 Hi, Rachel. How are you doing?
27:00 Speaker 01 Hi, Yuki. I'm doing well. So nice to meet you.
27:03 Speaker 05 All right, nice to meet you too.
27:04 Dan Pashman? All right, Yuki, let's hear your intro.
27:06 Speaker 05 All right, my name's Yuki. I'm the owner of Emmy, a Japanese restaurant located here in Austin.
27:11 Speaker 01 Another Japanese reference.
27:15 Dan Pashman? Okay.
27:16 Speaker 01 Interesting.
27:17 Dan Pashman? All right, Rachel, you have five questions.
27:20 Speaker 01 Yuki.
27:21 Speaker 05 Yes.
27:22 Speaker 01 What is natto?
27:24 Speaker 05 Natto is fermented soybean that has a very specific, uh, germ, bacteria, that was actually discovered on accident. If you want more details, uh, there's a farmer who was storing his soybeans, uh, somewhere, you know, on site in his farm. And, uh, he noticed that they took on a strange stickiness and strange smell, and he tried it. And, um, it was good, and it didn't kill him. And so we continue to make more Nato and all Nato that exists in the world today is comes from that original strain of that germ of Nato that has not been replicated or found anywhere else.
28:03 Speaker 01 Huh.
28:04 Dan Pashman? That's fascinating, if it's true.
28:06 Speaker 01 If it's true.
28:08 Dan Pashman? I liked your use of the classic interviewing technique, Rachel, of just not saying anything when the guest pauses awkwardly to get them to keep talking.
28:15 Speaker 01 Because I'm so afraid that you're gonna tell me that whatever I say is the equivalent of another question.
28:20 Dan Pashman? I understand.
28:21 Speaker 01 So Yuki, I was...
28:22 Dan Pashman? That was a good strat, though. Okay.
28:24 Speaker 01 I meant to agree, like, say more, and you just did it for me, which is great.
28:26 Dan Pashman? Right. Okay, so that's one question down.
28:28 Speaker 01 Right. Okay, so second question. Can you tell me the story of your biggest restaurant failure? Or your biggest professional failure?
28:40 Speaker 05 My biggest professional failure? Let's see. When I first started training to become a chef, it was under Kohei Masense, who was the executive chef at Minato, a sushi restaurant here in Austin. And I've known Kohei Masense for quite a long time, but I was relatively new to his kitchen. And there was a particularly cold morning. He wasn't working in the kitchen, and we weren't really doing a whole lot of open flame stuff yet. So it was freezing, and I was all bundled up. And I just could not, I only had half a brain to think about what I was doing because the other half was just frozen. And I made so many mistakes in front of him.
29:23 Speaker 05 Like, I left a rice kama open, left drawers out, left out a cutting board, didn't clean a knife. And he sent me home, like, within about two hours. So that was pretty embarrassing. Things were fine after that, but it was, yeah, very embarrassing, and that kind of stuck with me for a while.
29:41 Dan Pashman? And you haven't left a drawer open since?
29:44 Speaker 05 No.
29:46 Dan Pashman? All right, that's two down, is that right? Am I keeping track correctly?
29:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's two down.
29:50 Dan Pashman? Two down, okay.
29:50 Speaker 01 Okay, my next one, Yuki, you said, so you worked in the sushi restaurant. There is one piece of sushi that sushi chefs consider, like, that's how they get judged, is by how you make this one piece of sushi. What is it?
30:11 Speaker 05 Um, well, I don't head the sushi operations at Emmy, so I'm so sorry to my chef Ken if I get this wrong. But if I had to, oh, boy. I would say otoro, which is, um, yeah, the fatty bluefin. I'd say that's probably one of the more pricey, more quality items. And if you don't get that right, then your best item is not really worth much.
30:42 Speaker 01 Uh huh. I gotta say, your Japanese accent is on point.
30:47 Speaker 05 Thank you, I am fluent.
30:48 Speaker 01 Oh.
30:49 Speaker 05 As is necessary.
30:50 Speaker 01 So good.
30:51 Speaker 05 Oh, arigato.
30:52 Speaker 01 Jozu desu ne.
30:54 Speaker 05 Tooti no koso.
30:56 Speaker 01 Oh, God, he really can't speak Japanese. That's the extent of mine.
31:00 Dan Pashman? Rachel's out of material.
31:02 Speaker 01 That's it, the end.
31:03 Dan Pashman? Yeah.
31:04 Speaker 01 Okay, number four. Were your parents supportive of your restaurant pursuit?
31:11 Speaker 05 Uh, yeah, I think so, definitely my mother. She's one who taught me to cook at a very young age. And then I've been working in food service for pretty much my whole life. I did have a brief stint as an accountant. And I was working at a public accounting firm in Atlanta, and then an internal auditor when I moved back here to Austin. And I think they probably hoped I'd keep, um, keep in the corporate accounting world just because that's more stable, pays better, you know, less stressful in general. But, um, because I wanted to specifically get into making Japanese food, I think my mom found, um, you know, some comfort in that me carrying on the culture and legacy there.
31:52 Speaker 01 Okay, my last question. I know you're not going to be able to tick all of them off, but usually, I think in a restaurant, the back of the house has like a checklist of things to do before you shut down. What's on your checklist?
32:07 Speaker 05 Well, prep work for the next day, if we're including that on the checklist, restocking everything, all our, you know, little, what do you call it? Yeah, just prep vegetables, ramekins, we call it koake. It's when we just take things that come in bulk and then separate into smaller, more manageable things that we can store individually.
32:30 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
32:31 Speaker 05 Of course, cleaning, cleaning the kammas that we use to cook the rice, very important, wiping them dry. Yeah, wiping all surfaces down, including the sink, completely dry. Make sure everything's hung up and put away in its right place so that when we come in, we can just get right to it.
32:48 Speaker 01 Okay, Yuki.
32:49 Dan Pashman? All right.
32:50 Speaker 01 Dozo arigatou gozaimashita.
32:52 Speaker 05 Arigatou gozaimasu. Thank you very much, Rachel. Thank you, Dan.
32:55 Dan Pashman? Thank you, Yuki. Please return to our virtual waiting room. And Rachel, Yuki, you know, you complimented his accent. Obviously, he speaks Japanese, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he runs a Japanese restaurant. He may just be Japanese American and he grew up speaking Japanese. He may even have spent time in Japan. Maybe he has family or friends there.
33:16 Speaker 01 The Natto story was very good.
33:18 Dan Pashman? That was very convincing. That was very convincing. But then the last one, he kind of hesitated when it came to the checklist of the...
33:24 Speaker 01 I just feel like those things are more specific.
33:26 Dan Pashman? Yeah. Well, listen, I think, I think that, you know...
33:30 Speaker 01 Has the time come?
33:31 Dan Pashman? There are strong cases to be made in either direction. We're gonna take one more quick break. When we come back, Rachel will make her choice and the liar will be revealed. Stick around.
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35:17 Dan Pashman? We're just about to get back to the show, but I want to let you know real quick that one spot just opened up in my Italy trip this October. We had a last minute cancellation. We always have solo travelers on these trips. It's a very friendly group. They always have a blast. So come eat pasta in Rome and Puglia. If you want to scoop up that last spot, go to culinarybackstreets.com/sporful. All right.
35:46 Dan Pashman? Welcome back to the Sporful's annual game show, Two Chefs and a Lot.
35:53 Dan Pashman? Rachel Martin. We're just about at that time. We had three chefs who joined us. First, we had Vera, who claims to have four restaurants. She used some terminology like U-10 scallops and saum for sommelier, and she referenced romesco, which sounds impressive to me.
36:13 Speaker 01 Very fancy.
36:14 Dan Pashman? She also had a long pause when asked to talk about her biggest failure. She had to think about that one. Then there was Chris, who has a Japanese Mexican ramen place. His answers were kind of short, which could mean that he's lying or it could mean that he's trying to throw you off. And then finally, Rachel, we had Yuki, who has a Japanese restaurant, knew a whole lot about the history of Nato, but also hesitated a bit when asked to talk about the details of running a kitchen and what's on the list at the end of a night. So now that you've heard from them all, unpack your strategy for me.
36:51 Speaker 01 I think specificity equals truth most of the time. And like obscure specifics. And of course, you can prepare all this in advance. But like Vera's story, yeah, she had a pause before her biggest failure. Like it took her a second to conjure that. But then the story included a reference to certified male. That is so random. That is, that is so weird. Like if I'm trying to like make up a story on the spot of my biggest failure, I just don't know if I could conjure the detail certified male. Like it just felt that I was like, that is interesting.
37:32 Dan Pashman? Okay.
37:33 Speaker 01 Um, so.
37:34 Dan Pashman? So in general, you were looking for specifics, but you said, you said specifics, you know, specificity, it tells you a lot, but it doesn't necessarily tell you everything.
37:42 Speaker 01 A lot of what I do in interviewing people is also listen to the performance of their storytelling, right? Like just how true does it feel? Like, do you feel like they're really inhabiting their words? Are, are the specifics that they sharing, do they feel like something that they've memorized? And a pause is a normal thing. And we take pauses all the time. Like I just took one just now. And so if you're overly prepared and you're prepared with all these specifics, then that might, that might signal something.
38:17 Dan Pashman? Almost if, if the specifics are coming too fast.
38:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:20 Dan Pashman? Too easily. It almost seems like it's scripted.
38:23 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
38:24 Dan Pashman? Interesting. Oh, another part of your strategy that stood out from prior years when we played this game is that you also asked some, some kind of big, sweeping, deep questions. I, I love the question about like, tell me your manager at your fourth restaurant's life story. Like that, that was good.
38:42 Speaker 01 Thanks, Dan.
38:45 Dan Pashman? I'm not sure if it unlocked the truth about this game.
38:48 Speaker 01 I don't know how generative was because you could just like super impose the identity of a friend onto that answer.
38:54 Dan Pashman? Sort of like deep existential, as you would as the host of Wild Card, you ask some deep existential questions. So, so don't tell me yet, Rachel, but have you made your choice? Okay. Okay, we're now going to have a brief musical interlude to allow our listeners to make their final decisions.
39:28 Dan Pashman? All right, time is up. The choices have been made. Rachel, who do you think the liar is?
39:36 Speaker 01 I think the liar is Yuki.
39:43 Dan Pashman? Ooh. That's not what I was, that was not what I, so, so go on. Explain your logic.
39:51 Speaker 01 Well, I could be totally wrong on this.
39:54 Dan Pashman? That's all right.
39:55 Speaker 01 I really will be embarrassed. But I, I think that sushi chefs measure themselves by the tamago, which is the sweetened egg that is placed on the little thing of rice. Like, that is, and it's counterintuitive because it's not fish. But for some reason, this was like drilled into my brain when I lived in Japan. And I'm not a connoisseur of Japanese cuisine or chef. But I feel like that would be a basic thing that you would know. I will be highly embarrassed if that's totally not true. And I made this decision based on that. But there were other tells, there were other tells.
40:32 Dan Pashman? Other tells, yes.
40:33 Speaker 01 Um, I thought his natto story came too quickly. Like, that's an example of, it was just, I don't know. And he just like knew the history of it in a way that I honestly don't know that, that a chef would necessarily know. It's, it's someone who maybe looked it up. I don't know. Um, what else, what else did I write down here?
40:56 Dan Pashman? Rachel's consulting her reporter's notebook.
40:59 Speaker 01 I'm consulting my reporters. Oh, I wrote down that his failure was unconvincing.
41:05 Dan Pashman? Hmm.
41:06 Speaker 01 Um, in a whole professional career as a restaurant owner. Like, again, I just know, the failures are fiery and dramatic and you have a lot. There's so much failure.
41:19 Dan Pashman? It's not like, oh, I left my cutting board out.
41:21 Speaker 01 No, it's not.
41:22 Dan Pashman? It was in front of this very famous chef and I can get that might be embarrassing. It didn't feel like a big enough failure in an industry when there's- Where there's, no matter how great you are, there's a lot of failure.
41:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, and chefs are usually very forthcoming about those big stories. You know, because they have part of their whole thing if they're being, they want people to know that, how hard it was to get where they are.
41:43 Dan Pashman? Right.
41:44 Speaker 01 And so I feel like that wasn't very convincing.
41:47 Dan Pashman? Okay, all right, well, so Rachel picks Yuki. All right, the Zoom camera is on, we can now see our three quote unquote chefs in Austin. Would the liar please reveal yourself?
42:02 Speaker 05 Hi, my name's Yuki D. Soza, I'm a comedian.
42:04 Dan Pashman? Oh, Rachel got it, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.
42:08 Speaker 01 Because I was gonna feel so bad for calling you a liar if you weren't actually a liar.
42:13 Speaker 05 I'm not a very good liar, you got me.
42:15 Dan Pashman? You were good, I actually, you know, I was gonna, my money was on Chris.
42:21 Speaker 01 No, but you know what, you then said, I was like, Chris, what up? You're not even talking, and then you're the one who said, what if that was the strat? To not talk, and then that kind of got in my head.
42:31 Dan Pashman? Okay, but I just felt, you know, you know why I was leaning Chris? I wrote down in my notes, first of all, he talked about food as a love language, which is a cliche. And he also said, when you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life, which is another cliche. Two cliches from Chris, which look, maybe.
42:47 Speaker 01 That is true.
42:48 Speaker 02 That is true.
42:49 Dan Pashman? A lot of cliches are true, but still, like, you know, it felt a little bit like on the nose.
42:54 Speaker 01 Also, I just, as I said earlier, it's just so hard that the idea that it never feels like work, I was just like, Chris.
43:02 Speaker 04 Oh, I'm physically exhausted 24/7, I just still like it.
43:05 Dan Pashman? Okay, all right, all right, all right. So, right, I think we, I think we were easily convinced by Vera, but the other two were on the fence.
43:13 Speaker 01 Interesting.
43:14 Dan Pashman? So, so let's hear briefly from all three of our, of our guests. So, Yuki, you're a comedian, you're, do you do improv as well?
43:21 Speaker 05 Yes, I do improv, there's a small wrinkle, I do my day job, I work part-time in a Japanese grocery store. So, I know my Japanese groceries.
43:29 Dan Pashman? All right, that's, that's fair, though, I think you're still eligible to be our liar.
43:33 Speaker 05 Knowing about the history of not doing.
43:35 Speaker 01 Oh, that's how you know.
43:37 Dan Pashman? Oh, God, God, okay, very good.
43:39 Speaker 01 That's great, that was very detailed and specific.
43:41 Dan Pashman? Yuki, where can people see you perform?
43:43 Speaker 05 They can see me perform at Fallout Theater. They can find my Instagram at the underscore Yookster. That's Y O O K S T E R.
43:52 Dan Pashman? All right. And Vera, what are the names of your four restaurants?
43:55 Speaker 02 Yeah. So I own La Revue, Woodfire Kitchen. I have two locations. I own Soviet. It's a French inspired steakhouse. And I also own Three West Ale House and Grill. So I do a little bit of all kind of cuisine.
44:12 Dan Pashman? And all those are in the Austin area?
44:14 Speaker 02 Yes, they're north of Austin. Two of them in Georgetown and two in Temple, Texas. Awesome.
44:19 Dan Pashman? Okay. And Chris, what's the name and location of your restaurant?
44:22 Speaker 04 So I own Ramen del Barrio. And that is in North Austin, near the Q2 Stadium.
44:28 Dan Pashman? It sounds like North Austin's the place to be.
44:30 Speaker 02 The place to eat.
44:30 Dan Pashman? That's where all the good food is.
44:31 Speaker 04 Much cheaper rent than downtown.
44:33 Dan Pashman? Okay, all right.
44:34 Speaker 02 Less crowded.
44:36 Dan Pashman? All right. Vera, Chris and Yuki, thank you all so much for joining us for this edition of Two Chefs Set Alive.
44:46 Dan Pashman? So Rachel, first time out of the gate and you nailed it. How do you feel?
44:50 Speaker 01 I feel very proud of myself. I'm not gonna lie. I will not lie.
44:55 Dan Pashman? Consider that when we started this game, you you looked at me and said, I have no idea what this is. I have no idea what's going on.
45:01 Speaker 01 I had no idea, but I also set the expectations high. I was like, I'm really good at like human nature and I can deduce when someone's pulling my leg.
45:09 Dan Pashman? And you did. And you did. All right, well, Rachel Martin hosts the excellent podcast Wild Car from NPR. It's one of my very favorite podcasts. Please listen to it if you don't listen already. If you've listened already, keep listening to it. Rachel Martin, always a blast. Thanks so much.
45:25 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, this was so, so fun. Thank you for having me.
45:30 Dan Pashman? Next week on the show, perfect for summer, we've got an ice cream truck extravaganza. We'll tell the story of the ice cream truck kingpins of post-war Southern California. And I'll hang out with a guy who drives a local ice cream truck where I live. Plus, I'll pitch him on some Sunday ideas of my own. That's next week. While you wait for that one, check out last week's episode with food writer Jason Diamond, in which we ask, is it possible to go on GLP? Ones and still love food? That one's up now, check it out. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more.
46:12 Dan Pashman? It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful.
46:26 Dan Pashman? This episode was produced by me, along with managing producer-
46:29 Speaker 07 Emma Morgenstern.
46:29 Dan Pashman? And senior producer-
46:30 Speaker 06 Andres O'Hara.
46:31 Dan Pashman? It was edited by-
46:32 Speaker 07 Camille Stanley.
46:33 Dan Pashman? Our technical director is- Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. Miss Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pash.
46:43 Speaker 06 And I'm Jason Griselle from Houston, Texas, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.
47:01 Dan Pashman? Hey, it's Dan here. Thank you so much, first of all, for tuning into The Sporkful every week. We really appreciate it. And I want to let you know, if you want to hear new episodes ad-free, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. Thanks.
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