Inside The Consumer Reports Test Labs (Reheat)

Dan goes inside Consumer Reports, the independent nonprofit that tests and rates everything from toaster ovens to frozen pizzas to luxury cars. CR takes testing very seriously, and Dan gets to see their process in action. It all starts with an undercover shopper who goes by the pseudonym Jim.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  If you're the kind of person who plans vacations around where you're gonna eat, Scottsdale belongs on your list. And look, whenever I go somewhere, my priority is on eating things that are the specialties of that region, eating things that I can't get at home. So when I'm in that area, I'm looking for the specialties of the region, like authentic southwestern and Native American flavors, modern Mexican cuisine, and as basic as it sounds, homemade, fresh flour tortillas. There's nothing like it, and you can't get them like that in the Northeast. And there is such a farm-to-table culture in Scottsdale, inspired by the Sonoran Desert. Everything is so fresh, the peppers, the spices. It is so vibrant. And Scottsdale's just got a great vibe. It's one of those places where breakfast becomes brunch, happy hour turns into dinner, and every patio

• 0:43Dan Pashman?

  has another amazing view. And explore Old Town Scottsdale between meals, or relax at a spa after brunch. From award-winning and James Beard-recognized chefs to neighborhood gems and nationally acclaimed restaurants, every meal in Scottsdale tells a story. So come hungry and leave with new favorite restaurants. Start planning your next culinary getaway at experiencescottsdale.com.

• 1:06Dan Pashman?

  I grew up on Lando Lakes cheese. I still remember going to the supermarket deli counter with my mom and her ordering Lando Lakes American cheese. And now, Lando Lakes cheese and butter are a huge part of my home. There are so many easy weeknight recipes using Lando Lakes cheese and butter that bring delicious restaurant taste right to your table. From chicken parm to weeknight shrimp pad Thai, Lando Lakes has plenty of quick dishes that'll have the whole dinner table talking. Visit landolakes.com/reцепes/collection for easy weeknight dinners.

• 1:46Dan Pashman?

  Hey, everyone. We have a reheat for you this week that comes by request.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Hi, Sporkful. This is Michaela. I'm a Mayner who recently moved to central Vermont, and I would love if you could reheat the episode from four or five, I don't know, years ago, about gas stoves and consumer reports, because I think about this episode like almost daily. Genuinely, this episode changed my perspective on

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Both Consumer Reports and Gas Stoves. So I think it's time for a reheat. Thank you so much.

• 2:20Dan Pashman?

  If you love our nerdier episodes, this one is going to be right up your alley. I mean, Consumer Reports is like the gold standard in terms of reviewing products. I went to their lab, I learned all about how they put stoves and other consumer products to the most extreme tests, and I was nerding out big time, and I think you're about to do the same. Now, of course, as always, we take requests for these reheats, as we just did. Thank you, Michaela, for this suggestion. You want us to reheat an episode you love? Drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks so much, and enjoy.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Before we get started here, I have to remain completely anonymous.

• 2:58Dan Pashman?

  Okay, should we have a code name for you?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Call me Jim.

• 3:02Dan Pashman?

  Jim, all right. They'll never guess now. All right, so Jim, what is your job exactly?

• 3:07Speaker 02

  I am known as an acquisition agent.

• 3:13Dan Pashman?

  Jim works for a highly specialized and sometimes secretive organization, one that gathers intelligence on a range of pressing subjects. He's part of an elite task force that consists of only three full-time agents. Right now, we're in his car, in the parking lot of a Bed Bath & Beyond, somewhere in the New York area. I can't say exactly where, because we're on a secret mission.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  We're shopping for toaster ovens.

• 3:39Dan Pashman?

  Why are we undercover? Well, the more common term for Jim's job is "secret shopper." He works for Consumer Reports, which is known for testing everything from toaster ovens to frozen pizzas to luxury cars, to tell you which ones are best. He doesn't want people to know he's buying for Consumer Reports, because he doesn't want manufacturers to have any chance to tamper with a product, so they can score better. Jim needs to be absolutely certain he's getting the same model that you or I would get. Of course nowadays, a lot of secret shopping is done online. But still, there are times when he needs boots on the ground, acquiring his targets in person so he gets the right ones.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  There are times where we'll have to buy, say, nine of an item, all of the same date and the same lot code. So you'll go into a supermarket and try to secretly remove all the Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup cans off the shelf, turning them over, looking at the bottoms of the cans to try to find identical date codes.

• 4:35Dan Pashman?

  To avoid attracting attention, Jim shops at busy times and tries not to mess up the store displays. If someone asks what he's doing, he comes up with a cover story. But still, his shopping habits make him stand out.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  I recall an event where I had to go to Home Depot. We were testing LED light bulbs. And I had to buy, you know, 60 watt, 100 watt, and 40 watt dozen each of GE, and a dozen each of Philips, and a dozen each of the store brand. And I got up to the register and a lady behind me looks at me and she says, "Afraid of the dark?"

• 5:13Dan Pashman?

  So what's on our list here, Jim? What are we buying today?

• 5:16Speaker 02

  We've got four different toaster ovens that I'm looking at.

• 5:20Dan Pashman?

  Can I say a quick look at this? So you're getting the

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 5:24Dan Pashman?

  The the and the

• 5:28Speaker 02

  That is correct.

• 5:29Dan Pashman?

  So if someone comes up and asks you why you're buying all these toaster ovens, what's the cover story gonna be?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  I am in charge of a raffle for my local church.

• 5:43Dan Pashman?

  Did you just come up with that just now?

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, whatever.

• 5:48Dan Pashman?

  You're getting a little too good at making up these stories, Jim.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  You gotta be able to think on the fly and not hesitate when somebody comes up to you and asks you.

• 5:56Dan Pashman?

  Okay, a raffle for the local church, that's good, alright. And who am I? I'm one of the altar boys?

• 6:00Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 6:11Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Today, we go behind the scenes at Consumer Reports. It's a nonprofit that tests and rates products and services. They've been around since 1936, first putting out a print magazine, now with a flagship website. In a world where anyone with a smartphone can post a product review, Consumer Reports has remained a trusted source for their 6 million members. They never get paid to test or advertise specific products. From identifying the things they test, to the actual testing, to writing up their evaluations, we're gonna get an inside look at how they conduct some of the most rigorous reviews around.

• 6:52Dan Pashman?

  But first, back to acquisition agent Jim in the Bed Bath & Beyond parking lot. I used my phone to record him. I didn't want my regular recording setup to raise any suspicion. I was buzzing with the thrill of my first acquisition. Is there any sort of like special like initiate mission sequence?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  That's it. Just go. Lock and load.

• 7:18Dan Pashman?

  When you first walk into the store, does your heart start pounding a little bit? Do you get a little amped up for the mission?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Not anymore.

• 7:24Dan Pashman?

  Not anymore?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I do this in my sleep.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  Here we go.

• 7:31Dan Pashman?

  I see [BLEEP] over here. Oh, here's the [BLEEP] six slice toaster oven.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's... we were looking for the [BLEEP] four slice.

• 7:40Dan Pashman?

  Oh.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  So this is not the item that we're looking for.

• 7:44Dan Pashman?

  That might be four.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  This could be it.

• 7:49Dan Pashman?

  It's labeled as... oh, four slice.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Four slice. Okay. Now, the next thing we're gonna test is, since they gave us a model number on this, we're going to try to locate that exact model number on the box. So this is [BLEEP]. That's an item we don't want.

• 8:04Dan Pashman?

  Should we check the other? I assume the other one will be the same. Should we check the... Yeah, same.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's...

• 8:12Dan Pashman?

  After looking around the store for 15 minutes, Jim and I have struck out. None of the toaster ovens are here. But I'm confident he'll complete his mission eventually. You don't get into an elite squad of secret shoppers by being a quitter. When there's a specific product with a specific model number, and you're looking in the stores and you can't, you're really struggling with this one, and then you get to a store and you finally lay eyes on it, and the model number matches, how does that feel?

• 8:36Speaker 02

  It feels great. It feels great, but then you gotta kind of give yourself a dope slap in the back of the head and say, you know what? But in the grand scope of things, I just drove 150 miles for a chocolate chip energy bar.

• 8:55Dan Pashman?

  Even though Jim and I failed to complete our mission, there's still plenty of testing to do at Consumer Reports, or CR.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  This is our main facility. It's more than 20 acres of space we have here.

• 9:05Dan Pashman?

  So I head up to CR headquarters just north of New York City, where I meet Paul Hope.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  My name is Paul Hope, and I'm a home and appliances editor here at Consumer Reports.

• 9:13Dan Pashman?

  Paul's main focus is kitchen appliances and cooking gear.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  So I cover the five different kinds of grills that we test here, as well as ranges, cooktops, and wall ovens.

• 9:22Dan Pashman?

  Paul went to culinary school and worked in professional kitchens before getting into writing about kitchen gear. The pivot suited him.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  I just love sort of getting to the bottom of the best stuff and what makes a great range or a great chef's knife or whatever else.

• 9:36Dan Pashman?

  Paul sometimes tries a product he's writing about, but he doesn't usually do the official testing himself. There are experienced lab techs who do that. Instead...

• 9:44Speaker 03

  I take all the ratings from the hard work that our testers do, and I turn that into stories about, more or less, what you should get for your own home.

• 9:52Dan Pashman?

  But a lot's gotta happen before Paul writes up those recommendations. First, a team of market analysts does a bunch of research to determine which products they should actually test. What are the new models the major players are putting out? What are people buying? The analysts make lists for the secret shoppers who get the goods and bring them back here to HQ. And this is where almost all of CR's testing happens. Paul walks me through the building. Where are we?

• 10:15Speaker 03

  So right now, we're in what we call the atrium here at Consumer Reports. So it's the main walkway. It connects a lot of our lab space and office space.

• 10:24Dan Pashman?

  There's skylights, it's very pretty, there's glass walls.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  And you're seeing one of the telltale signs that we're in the middle of testing ranges, which is there's just sort of a pile of cake and pre-wrapped cookies on the table here.

• 10:37Dan Pashman?

  These sugar cookies that are sitting out here, these are just like out where employees would just like grab cookies.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  Exactly, so we bake hundreds of cakes and thousands of cookies every year.

• 10:46Dan Pashman?

  So this is a good place to work. There's a lot of free food here.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  There's an enormous amount of free food. You do get tired of it because it's very standardized. We bake a totally standardized batch of sugar cookies in every single oven that we test. We also do butter cakes on multiple racks at the same time. We're looking for how consistent each cake is from one to the next. So it is a lot of sugar cookie and butter cake.

• 11:11Dan Pashman?

  So like, how old is the sugar cookie recipe?

• 11:14Speaker 03

  It's gotta be the same formula that we've been using for decades. And we try to keep things as consistent as possible over time.

• 11:21Dan Pashman?

  Makes a more valid test.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Exactly, and you know, if somebody's going to our ratings and we've tested a brand-new model and there's one that's still on the market from 15 years ago, we want those scores to be comparable to one another. So we don't like to rush to change any of our testing.

• 11:34Dan Pashman?

  So these, have you ever released the recipe?

• 11:36Speaker 03

  I have not, and in fact, I don't know it myself.

• 11:41Dan Pashman?

  Is that because you could get kidnapped?

• 11:42Speaker 03

  It's honestly because I've never asked.

• 11:44Dan Pashman?

  There are differences in these different batches.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  There are for sure. So right now, we're looking at a cookie with a pretty dark outer ring and a pretty pale top. That's not typically an ideal result. You know, you want...

• 11:59Dan Pashman?

  It's not an ideal result?

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Well, you typically want, we're looking for uniformity. That's reflective not only of how well it's gonna bake, you know, sugar cookies, but how well it's gonna do every task that you could imagine. So if you're baking chicken thighs, you know, you want...

• 12:13Dan Pashman?

  Right, you don't want them burned on the edges and raw in the center.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 12:16Dan Pashman?

  Right, I get that for chicken thighs. So I guess for your purposes, for testing, maybe this is valid, but I gotta say, Paul, like, the cookies I would gravitate towards from these different piles would be the ones with the crispy edges and the raw center.

• 12:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's totally fair.

• 12:32Dan Pashman?

  I stuff a few of the cookies that I think look best into my bag and we move on. As Paul said, these cookies are sitting out because they're testing ranges today in the lab. So they're looking at both the stoves on top of the ranges and the ovens below. It can take three technicians a week to do the full battery of tests on each model. Those tests include?

• 12:51Speaker 03

  How fast range can heat water, how steadily it can simmer, things like melting chocolate, even baking, even and high temperature broiling. And a particular favorite is the self-clean test, which as you'll see is a just disgusting mixture of stuff that we bake onto the walls of every oven cavity.

• 13:08Dan Pashman?

  Is there a standard mixture?

• 13:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. It is the most disgusting stuff on earth.

• 13:13Dan Pashman?

  I want to see that.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I won't spoil all the fun.

• 13:16Dan Pashman?

  Every detail of every test is standardized in ways I never would have thought of.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  We're starting with water, you know, that is the same temperature at the beginning of every test, poured into the same pot, assigned to the highest output burner on whatever range is being assessed, and then hooked up to thermometers that really can't be cheated or manipulated in any way.

• 13:36Dan Pashman?

  Paul promises we'll see all the testing in action. But first, I gotta get some things off my chest. So here's an issue that I have with my range. It's one of these five burner ranges where the the center range is kind of like an oval.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:49Dan Pashman?

  That could fit like a large Dutch oven. But it also came with this flat top griddle thing that you can put on top of the big oval burner. And the problem is that the, I think. I explained to Paul that even though this middle oval burner is about twice as big as a regular burner, it's still operating with the same amount of gas as the regular burners. So the griddle doesn't actually get that hot. Even when you put it on high, it's really only like medium low.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:13Dan Pashman?

  First, I gotta let it heat for 10 minutes before it's hot. And then even then it's still not hot enough to do anything you need really heat for.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  For sure. I mean, that's those griddle burners are really best for things like grilled cheese or sort of like low temperature deglazing of a roasting pan, you know? It's definitely not like a high heat, flat top like you would find in a professional kitchen.

• 14:34Dan Pashman?

  What's your range pet peeve?

• 14:39Speaker 03

  I would say, oof, that's a tough one. I have a lot.

• 14:43Dan Pashman?

  Let me hear them all. Let it all out, Paul. It's the same space for you.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  I've been waiting years to unload.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  I would say my number one pet peeve is a range with an uneven oven, because there really isn't a great fix for that. And I don't just mean for baking, but I mean if you're roasting a chicken or cooking a strip loin or something, I mean, in uneven oven, there's not a ton you can do. On top of the stove, if it takes a long time to boil water, you get over it. So you know to preheat your water five minutes earlier than you think you need to for dinner. Or even with a simmer, if a range can't hold a steady simmer, you can stir it more frequently, you can turn the heat down a little bit. With an oven, I mean, you can try to rotate the food in an uneven oven, but you're going to let the heat out every time you do that. And it's really a big pet peeve when a range doesn't heat evenly.

• 15:35Dan Pashman?

  What else? Hit me one more big pet peeve. Let it all out, Paul.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Sure. So the last one is the ProStyle ranges.

• 15:42Dan Pashman?

  ProStyle ranges are the ones designed to look like restaurant ranges. They're stainless steel with hefty knobs and heavy burner grates made of cast iron. Viking and Wolf are the big ProStyle brands, and now Thermador and GE's monogram line are coming out of the scene. And of course, with that upgraded look and feel, ProStyle ranges are pricey. A basic range can go for as little as 500 bucks, but most ProStyle ranges are upwards of 4,000.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  But our testing really finds time and time again, they are hands down the worst performers as a group of any of the range types that we test.

• 16:13Dan Pashman?

  Worst when you take into account their cost? Or just flat out period worst?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  We're talking they'll often come up short of a range that costs $1,000 or less. And we're working at models that cost anywhere from $5,000 to $8,000 in the ProStyle world, and they're getting whooped by entry-level $600 or $700 electric or gas ranges.

• 16:32Dan Pashman?

  Wow. Why?

• 16:34Speaker 03

  When they first came on the market, they did have a few advantages, one of which was obviously they had these really high BTU burners. And at that time, you couldn't really get a regular gas range with a high BTU burner. Now, a Samsung or an LG or GE range, they're all coming with at least one high-output gas burner like that. And they've got tens of millions of dollars for R&D that frankly, a lot of these smaller ProStyle range brands don't. So they can really put a lot of money into developing a super-high-output burner that is going to boil water, in some cases, twice as fast as the burner on a Viking.

• 17:08Dan Pashman?

  So how fast the water boils is not just about BTUs.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  It's not a raw BTU count. BTU really only measures how much gas it's using at its highest output setting, but the actual design of a burner plays a big part of that.

• 17:22Dan Pashman?

  So empirically, the ProStyle ranges aren't any better than cheaper models, and a lot of times they're worse. But Paul does say these high-end ranges are beautiful, and their thick knobs and hefty construction make using them feel awesome. Paul experienced that himself when he cooked on CR's top-rated ProStyle range.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  So I came in, I sauteed some peppers, I fried some eggs, I broiled some lamb kebabs, just to sort of get a feel for some of the different things. And I have to say, experientially, it's really fun to cook on. Just the first thing you notice is just the sort of sheer heft of the product. You know, a typical range might weigh anywhere from 60 to 85 pounds, but a ProStyle range of the same size might weigh 200 pounds or more, just from the vast quantity of stainless steel. That's not going to obviously translate into water boiling any faster, but when you're home cooking and, you know, feeling good about yourself and listening to music and prepping dinner for your family, it is a sort of nice thing to have experientially, and it does sort of make you feel like a pro chef that doesn't necessarily get captured numerically in our testing.

• 18:26Dan Pashman?

  How many people are buying them because they're serious home cooks who use their range all the time and who really think that they just need this to be able to cook well? And how many, for how many people is it just sort of like a showpiece and a status symbol?

• 18:40Speaker 03

  I think a lot of it tends to be status. I think a lot of it is sort of aspirational for people who want to become great home cooks and feel like this may be something that helps embolden them or makes them feel like a pro.

• 18:52Dan Pashman?

  It's like buying pants that are a little too small. You're like, I'll lose the weight.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  Exactly. And you're just, you know...

• 18:59Dan Pashman?

  And then you're like, a year later, you donate the pants.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, so it's a very similar phenomenon to that, I think.

• 19:09Dan Pashman?

  Have you ever been in a position where you get invited to someone else's house? And they know what you do for a living?

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. I have, yeah, I'm picturing it already.

• 19:19Dan Pashman?

  And they just bought a new range?

• 19:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:24Dan Pashman?

  And they're like, "Hey, Paul, look what I got. I got this new fancy, super amazing one." They didn't read the Consumer Reports ratings, so they didn't know in advance what you think. And now they're like, "Well, check it out."

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's like when your friend has a, has an ugly baby.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  You have that, that initial moment of panic and then you sort of do something to buy yourself time and regroup and you find something very specific to compliment. Oh, wow. They went, you know, they built in an analog clock. That's really nice.

• 20:04Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, Paul takes me inside the Consumer Reports testing lab. And remember that gross mixture they use to stress test the oven's self-clean function? I asked to taste it. Stick around.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Ooh, advertisements. Yummy.

• 20:29Dan Pashman?

  When you're cooking, ingredients matter, right? You use higher quality ingredients, you usually get better results. And if you're listening to this show, you're probably the kind of person who puts some thought and effort into your ingredients. But ingredients don't just matter with food, they also matter with laundry detergent. Of course, the cleaning job needs to get done, the odors and stains have to be tackled, and I want to feel good about the detergent and the ingredients in it. Because remember, whatever's in your laundry detergent is essentially in your clothes, and then you're putting those clothes on, you want good stuff in there. And All Free Clear uses only essential ingredients. It's 100% free from dyes, perfumes, parabens, and irritating residues. Check out the label and see for yourself, it lists all the ingredients and what they do. We've been using it in my house, we're very happy with it, and let me tell you,

• 21:10Dan Pashman?

  family of four, two teenagers, we do a lot of laundry, so we have put All Free Clear to the test. It's a powerful clean that you can feel good about. All Free Clear is the number one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin. When it comes to laundry detergent, the choice is clear, All Free Clear. Pick up a bottle for your next laundry day. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep-fried turkey. Look, whether or not you've had deep-fried turkey, I think you can probably understand that it's amazing, but making it is also a massive production. That's why Boar's Head now presents the Friar's Turkey Breast. One bite and flavor takes over, perfectly seasoned, deliciously golden fried. A backyard tradition, available at the deli only from Boar's Head.

• 21:53Dan Pashman?

  Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905.

• 22:01Dan Pashman?

  Last year, right around this time, I got a new jacket from Quince, a lightweight fall jacket, and it has turned into my favorite jacket. And this is why you need a lightweight jacket, and probably a new one, because it's time to freshen up your look. You need a lightweight jacket from Quince, because the beauty of a lightweight jacket is you can wear in the early fall, you can wear it in the early spring, but also it goes over a sweater, over a sweatshirt. And then suddenly, your lightweight jacket is a great accessory for pretty much the whole winter. Bottom line, when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. They make elevated everyday essentials using premium materials and designs that are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. So find

• 22:44Dan Pashman?

  your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was the Sporkful. It's the best way to support the show.

• 23:09Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, check out my Instagram when you get a chance. I share what I'm up to, what I'm eating, all of my hot takes that don't always make the cut here on the Sporkful, although I don't know why anybody would want to cut out my rants about the best way to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. But the point is that that stuff is on my Instagram, and we have a lot of fun there. Also, sometimes I'm like debating, what should we do for this episode? And I'll put up a poll. So it gives you a chance to actually have input into the show. So you can do it right now while you're listening. Follow me on Instagram, at the Sporkful. Again, that's at the Sporkful. Thanks.

• 23:44Dan Pashman?

  Back now to Consumer Reports Headquarters.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  We have about 63 labs here now.

• 23:49Dan Pashman?

  Paul and I leave the conference room where we were chatting, head through the atrium, and down a hallway to those 63 labs. After the market analysts decide which products should be tested, and the secret shoppers acquire those items, the products arrive here in the testing facility.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  I'm going to peek in here and see if we can just sneak in for a second. So this is our refrigeration lab. And ironically, we test refrigerators inside of refrigerators here because you have to be able to perfectly account for the outside temperatures.

• 24:18Dan Pashman?

  Oh, so like if one fridge is in a room that's 80 degrees and another fridge is in a room that's 50 degrees, then one's going to have to work harder than the other to get the same results.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 24:27Dan Pashman?

  Gosh, you've thought of everything.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  We have. I mean, I realize it's a little bit ridiculous to put a fridge in a fridge, but, you know, we don't know a better way yet.

• 24:36Dan Pashman?

  So there's like this gigantic steel door, and there's a little window. This looks like a, honestly, this looks like a maximum security prison for refrigerators.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  It does.

• 24:46Dan Pashman?

  But is there a windshield wiper on the window into this room? What is that?

• 24:49Speaker 03

  There is. That is so that people can see into the room just to check on the testing without having to break the seal of this chamber door. And then you can see on the other side of things here, on the other side of the chamber, to this enormous cluster of blue wires running into the chamber

• 25:05Dan Pashman?

  Yep.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  and then hooked up to a computer here.

• 25:08Dan Pashman?

  Oh, I see. So also, all those wires are connected to the refrigerators inside there, and they're sending out data, and this computer is gathering the data.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. So these wires are called thermocouples, and they're very precise thermometers that we use. And we use them in a lot of our testing, actually. We use them to test, you know, how evenly a grill heats across the surface, but we also use them to check the uniformity of temperatures within a fridge. And many of them are actually buried in boxes of frozen spinach inside the freezer compartments. We drill into packages of frozen spinach to set the thermocouple at the exact same depth in each box.

• 25:45Dan Pashman?

  Cooking appliance lab.

• 25:48Dan Pashman?

  Please knock before entering. Okay, good, we knocked. After you.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  Hi guys.

• 25:57Dan Pashman?

  Hey. So we've left the place where the frozen spinach was getting its temperature taken, and moved on to the cooking appliance lab, where all the ranges and other appliances get tested.

• 26:07Dan Pashman?

  This room feels like a hybrid between like a school cafeteria and a high school chemistry lab. It's big and open and there's ovens, big ovens and stoves and ranges everywhere. But then there's also sort of like an area that looks like metal cabinets and I could very easily picture like Bunsen burners. As I said, Paul doesn't do the testing himself, but he's still my tour guide. So he shows me the GE Cafe range they're testing today. So what's going on here, Paul?

• 26:33Speaker 03

  Sure, so right now we're assessing GE Cafe double oven range. And it's got two ovens here, a smaller one up top, a larger one on the bottom. Looks like some brushed brass or bronze finishes and six burners, which is pretty impressive on a standard 30-inch wide range like that. This GE Cafe brand is sort of a sweet spot between mass market and pro-looking. So it's got some of these nicer pro-style finishes, like these sort of chunky knobs here, continuous cast iron cooking grates. This is what allows you to, you know, start a pot of water.

• 27:12Dan Pashman?

  Otherwise, if you have a big pot of water, you have to pick it up and move it to a separate burner. You have to go get pot holders.

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 27:17Dan Pashman?

  If there's more production, you might spill some of the water.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Exactly. And that was one of those features that originated on pro-style ranges.

• 27:24Dan Pashman?

  How much does this Cafe range cost?

• 27:27Speaker 03

  This guy's a pricey one. Looks like about $3,100 all the way up to $3,600, depending upon where you buy it. It's got every feature you could imagine. It has Wi-Fi, it has two ovens, it's a slide-in with no back panel, so it has front-mounted controls. So it really does have pretty much every bell and whistle.

• 27:45Dan Pashman?

  This Cafe range has nice finishes and a double oven, which could explain why it's so pricey, even though it's not technically pro-style. Now for the testing. The first person I meet is project leader Tara Casaragola.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  Well, I work in the ranges lab. I mostly handle the data analysis part of things. So we collect a lot of information on these ranges, a lot of test information, temperature information.

• 28:10Dan Pashman?

  What's this thing here? Digitizer calibration chart?

• 28:13Speaker 05

  Oh, that's for our color measuring.

• 28:18Dan Pashman?

  Color measuring?

• 28:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 28:19Dan Pashman?

  You measure colors?

• 28:20Speaker 05

  Yes. It's an instrument that captures the color of something and then takes the color and it gives it a coordinate in 3D space. So a value, basically.

• 28:32Dan Pashman?

  You're looking at the color of what?

• 28:33Speaker 05

  Oh, well, you, this instrument could do anything, but for our purposes, we're just using it to look at cakes and cookies.

• 28:40Dan Pashman?

  You see, they don't want to leave it up to the human eye to determine how evenly brown the cakes from different ovens are. So instead, the technicians put the cakes into a machine called the DigiEye. It essentially takes a photo and assigns a numerical value to the brownness of each cake. The thing's practically the size of an MRI machine. It looks like you could use it to launch satellites. And they're using it to see if the cakes are baked evenly. But I can kind of understand why.

• 29:03Speaker 05

  It can be exhausting trying to look at these things and, oh, is this brown or is this browner? Was this browner than yesterday's cake?

• 29:11Dan Pashman?

  Right, right.

• 29:12Speaker 05

  So.

• 29:13Dan Pashman?

  Right, after you look at a hundred of them, you can't tell the difference.

• 29:15Speaker 05

  We really can't. You just become, everything's a blur. Everything's a blur.

• 29:19Dan Pashman?

  So this machine helps to quantify?

• 29:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:21Dan Pashman?

  But they don't just check the color of the cakes. Two other technicians, Sue Callum and Lee Wong, are taking the cakes' temperatures.

• 29:27Speaker 05

  All our cakes. Get the temperatures taken on here. And then, once it's cooled a little after the pictures, we're also going to cut them and measure the heights. 199.9. 199.9? 189.9. Hey, that was high.

• 29:43Dan Pashman?

  I know, that could have totally swayed the ranking. It's good that we clarified that. I know it's my first day in the lab, and just an hour ago, I was extolling the virtues of unevenly browned cookies. But I'm feeling bold, so I offer Paul my take on how the Cafe Double Oven is performing. I mean, there was some inconsistency. The ones from the bottom rack had a nice golden brown. The ones from the top rack looked kind of pale.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Our tests are fairly torturous in some cases. I mean, these are oftentimes sort of the hardest scenario. We're not deliberately misusing anything, obviously, but we are doing sort of the most that you should ask any given range to do. So we're baking the maximum number of cakes or cookies at once. And we're also doing it, in this case, in both ovens. Because, you know, ideally, you obviously want to be able to use them interchangeably.

• 30:29Dan Pashman?

  Next, Lee, one of the technicians, moves on to the stove top performance tests. There's a pot with a jerry-rigged lid on it. The underside of the lid has thermometers sticking out of it, so they go into whatever liquid is in the pot. Wires come from the thermometers through the top of the lid and connect to a computer, just like those thermocouples I saw in the fridge prison.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  This one is, we do, um, speed of heat. So, this is all the thermocouple. We have five thermocouple in all different spot.

• 30:57Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 30:58Speaker 06

  So, we put four liter of water in the highest burner and put this lid on top of it, and then we start the test and see how fast the water will go up to like 195 degree on average for five points.

• 31:17Dan Pashman?

  And so when those five spots average 195 degrees, then you say it's done?

• 31:21Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 31:22Dan Pashman?

  Now I know what you're thinking. Why do they heat it to 195? Why not 212, boiling? Well, CR really just wants to know how well the burner works, how fast it can heat the water in the pot. But when water approaches boiling, the burner is also expending energy to turn some of that water into steam. So, the relationship between burner output and temp increase is less clear. They've thought of everything.

• 31:48Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, I observe one final test and ask to taste a substance that no one in the history of the Consumer Reports lab has ever dared try. That's after the break. Stick around.

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• 33:31Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. Let's return now to the Consumer Reports Lab. Next, we move on to the final test I'm going to see today. Can you show me the self-cleaning testing section?

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Sure. So we can't look too much because we're actually in the middle of a self-clean cycle as we speak.

• 33:48Dan Pashman?

  So this is, so there's a range sitting here with sort of like a very makeshift-looking hood above it.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  It is. It's sort of sequestered over here quite deliberately on the side of the Range Lab because usually this test really stinks.

• 34:03Dan Pashman?

  It stinks because what the self-clean does is heat your oven to 850 or 900 degrees in the hopes of burning off whatever junk is built up inside so it can get smoky and smelly.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  This one looks to be mid-cycle. This is an induction range from IKEA and we'll know soon enough how effective the self-clean cycle is. We can see a little note here that says for self-clean, bake mash at 425 for one hour. But I won't spoil what mash is.

• 34:33Dan Pashman?

  Mash? I gotta find out. Should I ask them what the mash is? Okay.

• 34:40Dan Pashman?

  So I understand that the stuff that you put inside the oven for when you test the self-clean is called the mash.

• 34:47Speaker 05

  It's the monster mash.

• 34:50Dan Pashman?

  What is inside that mixture?

• 34:52Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh, I'll show you, it's over here.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Does not smell good. So mash consists of cherry pie filling, tomato puree, egg yolks, mozzarella cheese, Velveeta cheese, tapioca, and lard. And it all goes into the food processor and it comes out. Kind of like, um, like soft. It reminds me of soft sand, remember when you're a kid and you could pick it up and then drop it and then make little castles?

• 35:24Dan Pashman?

  Right, or it looks, or I don't know, my first thought was it looks like a child's vomit.

• 35:29Speaker 05

  Well, it is orange. And we paint this with a paintbrush inside the ovens. But we weigh it out as a certain amount, you have to weigh out for each oven, we have a regular paintbrush. Gets painted on, then we bake it on for an hour. Once it's cooled, then we can self-clean it. So now the self-clean will be done in an hour. And we're hoping it'll all turn to ash and then it wipes out nice and clean, that is the goal.

• 35:55Dan Pashman?

  Has anyone ever tasted it?

• 35:57Speaker 05

  Oh god, no.

• 35:58Dan Pashman?

  In all these years, you've never been tempted? Come on.

• 36:01Speaker 05

  Would you like to smell it?

• 36:03Dan Pashman?

  I'll smell it, let me smell it.

• 36:07Speaker 05

  Doesn't smell good.

• 36:08Dan Pashman?

  It doesn't smell great.

• 36:09Speaker 05

  Do you want to taste it?

• 36:10Dan Pashman?

  Not as bad as I thought.

• 36:12Speaker 05

  You heard what was in it, right?

• 36:15Dan Pashman?

  I mean, I, I'm, yes, I want to taste it, can I taste? I'm curious, I'm legitimately.

• 36:19Speaker 05

  No, don't want to taste it.

• 36:21Speaker 06

  You know why, you know why, the only thing is because they may not be, um, fresh.

• 36:28Dan Pashman?

  It might give me food poisoning?

• 36:29Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 36:30Dan Pashman?

  Alright, finally, I won't eat the mash. I was ready, I mean, like, in decades, how many decades of Consumer Reports have been, people have been baking that same mixture onto ovens and no one? You'd never, at the holiday party, someone had a few too many drinks and tasted the mash? Come on, it must have happened.

• 36:48Speaker 05

  No, you've been here 30 years, has it happened?

• 36:50Dan Pashman?

  Lee?

• 36:51Speaker 06

  No, I never, I never tasted it. And I don't, I don't remember I heard somebody taste it.

• 37:01Dan Pashman?

  I leave the lab so that Lee, Sue, and Tara can finish their work. The Cafe range has to go through a total of 10 to 15 tests, which, as I said, take about a week total. Then we get to the final step of the CR process, writing up the results. That's Paul's job. A few weeks after my visit, Paul's finished his report on the GE Cafe range that I saw them testing. So we connect on Zoom. All right, the results are in.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  The results are in.

• 37:27Dan Pashman?

  Why don't you tell us, Paul, how did the Cafe range do?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  So the Cafe range is now our number three rated range of double oven gas ranges, and it earned an overall score of 78, which may not sound totally stellar to everybody, but as you saw, we're pretty exacting in how we test. And just for some reference, the very best overall score of any range of that type is an 86.

• 37:53Dan Pashman?

  In the few weeks since I spoke to Paul, the overall score for this range actually dropped from 78 to 76. That's because CR doesn't only look at their own testing. They also check survey data that helps them predict the reliability of each product. That reliability score went down, so the overall score did too. But this range still tied for third place for double oven gas ranges. Now, double oven gas ranges tend to be more expensive, but they offer convenience for people who are making two dishes at once at different temperatures, right? Still, that convenience comes with a price. The lowest price for this model right now is $3,600. I remember on the day that I saw you testing the Cafe, one or two of the cakes that came out of the oven looked a little uneven. The browning looked a little uneven.

• 38:39Dan Pashman?

  How did the range do on that test?

• 38:41Speaker 03

  So of all of the performance tests we did on this Cafe range, baking was definitely the lowest. It earned a rating of three out of five, which we call a good. Not as strong as some of the competition and also not as well as it did on some of the other performance tests. It was really good at maintaining a simmer. It heated water very quickly. It broiled well. And the oven capacity was really stellar in both cavities. So it was really sort of the baking test that held this oven back. So it's totally possible that if you're the type of person who bakes one cake at a time... Time or one cake a year, you're going to get great results. We're not going in and rotating them, but that's certainly something people can do if they have an oven that doesn't heat evenly at home.

• 39:22Dan Pashman?

  Right, but if you're paying 3,500 bucks for your oven, you shouldn't have to rotate a cake.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  I would agree. And so, you know, if you are a serious baker, this is not the range that I would steer you towards.

• 39:32Dan Pashman?

  Bottom line, if your top priorities are aesthetics and convenience, and if you can afford it, this double oven range is a good option for you. But if you're on a budget, or if your top priority is baking precision, this isn't the one you want.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  It's not uncommon in the course of our testing for us to find a $500 or $600 range that outperforms a $5,000 or $6,000 range. And in this case with the cafe, you know, you are paying a little bit of a premium for some of the features, double ovens for sure, the slide-in design. But yeah, you could absolutely spend thousands less and get a range that cooks every bit as well.

• 40:10Dan Pashman?

  That's Paul Hope, Home and Appliances Editor at Consumer Reports, along with Test Project Leader Tara Casaragola and Lab Tech's Lee Wong and Sue Callum. You can see some of Consumer Reports' advice for free on their website, or become a paying member to access all their detailed reviews and ratings, including the ones for toaster ovens and ranges, at consumereports.org. Special thanks to Lisa Chow and Doug Love for their help with this episode. The Sporkful is produced by me along with Senior Producer- Emma Morgenstern. And Producer- Andres O'Hara. Our Editor is- Tracy Samuelson. With additional editing by- Devin DeComo. The show is mixed by- Casey Holford. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher.

• 40:55Dan Pashman?

  Our Executive Producers are Colin Anderson and Eric Eddings. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman. And I'm Johnny FD from Keep Ukraine, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 41:20Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful.

• 42:06Dan Pashman?

  Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Your care changes lives. At Fidelity, we help put that same care into your financial future. Get support through your employee benefits with free tools and resources to help you tackle debt, save, and invest with confidence. Learn more at fidelity.com/healthcare. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

• 42:37Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here. Thank you so much, first of all, for tuning into The Sporkful every week. We really appreciate it. And I want to let you know, if you want to hear new episodes ad-free, subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts Plus on Apple Podcasts, or visit siriusxm.com/podcastsplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. Thanks.