Katherine Ryan: Firstborn Daughters, Celine Dion & Why Women Should Misbehave

Why did Katherine Ryan fly home from Spain on her own? In this episode of The Romesh Ranganathan Show, Romesh is joined by comedian, presenter and author Katherine Ryan, ahead of her new book Confessions of a Firstborn Daughter (out 22nd October). They get into eldest daughter syndrome, juggling four kids and a career, and why Katherine thinks women should misbehave a little more. Plus, there’s a Romesh gift with a very questionable backstory, a game of Misquoted involving maple syrup and a Bolognese, and some strong opinions on how to clean a toilet properly. Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily data plans! Use code 'romesh' at checkout. Download the Saily app or visit Sally's website here. A Ranga Bee Production. Chapters: 00:00 Intro02:29 Katherine's Spanish escape07:47 Celine Dion in Paris13:26 A gift for Katherine17:18 Kids' birthday parties and drunk mums23:17 Parenting with a nanny rota28:04 The double standards women face29:07 Katherine's secret life in the TikTok comments36:26 Hollywood and Nikki Glaser39:39 Hiding a pregnancy on a sitcom41:38 Confessions of a Firstborn Daughter42:34 What is eldest daughter syndrome?47:41 A question from Shanthi48:22 Katherine's 17-year-old daughter, Violet51:36 Cosmetic procedures and confidence58:49 Misquoted1:09:09 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Catherine, I'm going to do your intro now. Thanks for coming on to the podcast.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  You don't mean that.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Did you? I do mean it.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  What makes you think I don't mean that?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Because you want to be at home.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Look, it's not better than being at home.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  But I'm glad to be doing it with you.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  It's really, I'm really delighted.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  How much of a debate did you have about having to do this podcast?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  With whom?

• 0:19Speaker 00

  With me. Like, what, how much do you want to do it out of 10?

• 0:23Speaker 01

  10, 11.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  11?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  I was annoyed when episodes started coming out because I thought I was a better friend to you than other people that I was seeing. Come on. And then I wondered what the fuck was up.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  Thundercut's one of my besties.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Hello, I'm Catherine Ryan, and I'm good to be finally on the Ramash, Ranky, Nathan Show.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Oh, shut up, Ramash.

• 0:56Speaker 00

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• 1:50Speaker 00

  My guest today is an award-winning stand-up comedian, presenter, writer, and genuinely one of the funniest people in comedy. Since bursting onto the comedy scene and winning the Funny Woman Award in 2008, she's become one of Britain's top comedians. She regularly sells out stand-up tours across UK, Europe, and Canada, and brings her sharp wit to every podcast and panel show she touches. She's also starred in her own sitcoms, wrote a bestselling memoir, and was lucky enough to play my other half in the hit Sky comedy drama Romantic Getaway. Her new book, Confessions of a Firstborn Daughter, is out on the 22nd of October. It's Katherine Ryan, everybody! How are you? It's like, it's so weird doing a podcast with actually a mate.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Oh, what?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  I feel like you're everyone's friend. You, you have friends in the world of hip hop, in the world of acting, comedy.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Acquaintances, I wouldn't say friends.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Fine, contemporaries.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  Contemporaries, yeah.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Celine Dion in Paris, tell me about it.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I will tell you about that.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  Please.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  So it's been a bit of a controversy.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  My husband and I were having domestic dispute because he pissed me off in Spain and I flew home alone.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Which is growth for me.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  As a codependent person.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  And I felt like such an absolute G flying home in that easy jet.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  How, how many follow-up questions can I ask you about this? Was it a complete surprise that you flew home?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's been coming a long time. And I sent him a selfie of myself like this, and he woke up to that photo on his phone.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  So, so he went to bed.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Believing that you were going to be there when he woke up.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  He came in at like 6:00 in the morning. I waited, I fumed from like midnight till 6:00.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  What does you fuming look like? Are you actually, do you get angry? Like, really angry?

• 3:38Speaker 01

  I don't shout.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  I don't really emote.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  But, like, in the inside. I have an autoimmune disease, so I think it's, that's where it lives.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Just inside, like, ruminating. And I was just plotting and planning. This is when I had time to pack my bag, hide it in the hotel wardrobe, book the flight. And I was like, plotting, I was thinking of, you know, my revenge. So then he came in, and he'd had a lot of fun. It was our friend's wedding, but he's more fun than I am. And I just, I just think you don't leave your wife in a hotel room in Spain until 6:00 in the morning. That's what, that's like one of my core beliefs.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  So then.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  That should be in the vows as standards.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. So then he came in the door, and like, in fairness to Bobby, he gets very few nights out because we have so many kids. So, in retrospect, I kind of feel bad about it. But I am 43, and I think I was a forgiving woman for a lot of my life. And I don't think that's healthy for a relationship, especially for men, because if you're with a, in a heteronormative relationship, where the woman is forgiving, she forgives, and she forgives, and she forgives. And then one day she wakes up, and she hates the sound of your voice, and she doesn't think your jokes are funny, and she can't, and that's how we work. So if you want.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  This is directly, this is like, channeling into my soul.

• 4:49Speaker 03

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• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't think Lisa's very forgiving. She strikes me as a.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Well, she just doesn't find me funny, so.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Oh, so then maybe she's forgiven you too much.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think she might have done.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  But I've been listening to a lot of Chidira Eguru, The Slum Flower Hour, and she is hosting one of my live book tour evenings in London this October, 24th to be exact. Anyway, she's so inspirational, and I was just thinking, yeah, do it, do it. Because I've been struggling with my own codependencies. We came in at 6:00. I was like, 6? He's like, oh, I'm tired. He goes to bed. As soon as he fell asleep, I pop up, and I.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  As soon as he goes to bed? What time's your flight?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  It was like 9:30.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  Fuck.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, the, the, it was either I just leave, and he comes home to an empty hotel, but I had the key to let him in. So anyway, he gets in, he falls asleep, I pop up, my bag's ready, I go down, oh gosh. And this is leading to the Celine, this does lead to the Celine Dion concert.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's taken a detour, but I don't mind it. At this point, at this point, when you leave.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  Adrenaline sky high.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Sky high. I was like, you, I put on some Cardi B, my headphones, I was like, do it, leave. And I struggled to get a taxi because this Spanish town was really remote. And they kept yelling at me for not speaking Spanish, like, fuming, like, this guy was so angry. So then I used my phone to translate into Spanish, like, my husband got in at 6:00, I need to go to the airport.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  My husband got in at 6:00?

• 7:19Speaker 01

  And the guy was like, first.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  The one thing people don't know about a Spanish cab drop, they need to know context for the journey. They won't, they won't just take you somewhere. They want to go, well, why are you going?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  I give everyone a lot of context for the journey. That's what we call it. It's Catherine Oversheriff. She gives context for the journey. So he was so irate that I couldn't speak Spanish. So then I used my phone to try to be like, to ask him to go to the airport. And then he goes, um, ¿nombre? And I go, mi nombre es cuatro. And he was like, no, no, no, nombre. And I was like, mi nombre? Because that was our number of the villa, four. Oh, God. So he starts like, kicking right off. He's like, and I knew enough Spanish to know, he was like, don't ever call back here again. That's because nombre means name. And he's just like, so mean. So then I needed to find.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  But he doesn't know your name's not cuatro.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Yes, thank you. Susie Cuatro.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Good luck to Susie Cuatro if she tries to get a taxi.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  Good luck getting a taxi in Spain.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  So then I flew home, then he woke up to the selfie of me like, and I just felt really empowered by that. And then.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  It's amazing, it's, it's a sick move.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Really good.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  And it's kind of my first ever move.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Ever in my life.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  When you, because obviously like, you're building up to the move.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  And then you commit the move, and you're in the middle of the move. At that point, do you think, fuck, have I, have I gone too far?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Right, okay.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  And I knew we had the Celine Dion concert the next day. So then it was actually really romantic. It was our seven-year anniversary. Bobby flew home. He was like, can't believe you did the move. I think he respects me more for the move.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  And then I said, well, you're still, you can still come to Celine Dion. Whereas if I had waited and flown home with Bobby and not like asserted myself at the move, I might, might not have enjoyed Celine Dion so much. But this kept things, you know, really toxic.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's good. Yeah.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  That's what they, that, what, a lot of the thing is, a lot of people sort of really overrate closure. And I think it's best to keep their things open and pussing, you know, for as long as possible.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  On a serious note, though, I do advocate women misbehaving a little bit more. I think it's much better than harboring resentment.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Agreed.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  As I enter my like, final form, my final phase of life.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  Your final evolution.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't want to be like.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  A really funny Pokemon.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes. I think there are a lot of older women who have suffered a lot in their lives, and they've like swallowed a lot, and they are resentful. And I just want to be bad.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Dangerous.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  I, I think it's actually good. I think it's good.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I know.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  I celebrate it.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  I think it's better for Bobby as well, actually.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  So much better for Bobby.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Because getting back to your original question, before I gave context for the journey.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Um, we went to Celine Dion in Paris. It was incredible.

• 10:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  You know what she's like. She's outside her hotel, like, climbing on cars and like, rianda, rianda. She's nuts. She's, um, and Bobby didn't even know that Celine Dion, the wild and crazy Celine Dion. And it was like.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  He didn't know the wild and crazy Catherine.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  No, he didn't. And, you know, what happens to me when I book tickets to a Celine Dion concert, I get empowered.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Did you stay overnight in Paris?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  And was he nervous that you weren't going to be there in the morning?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you, didn't stay out till 6:00, did he? Came home with me and had a French onion soup.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  Celine Dion lived up to expectations?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Oh my God, exceeded them all.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Kim Kardashian was there when I was there. Rihanna was there when I was there.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Have you and Kim Kardashian?

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Never met.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  It feels like.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  It's destiny, isn't it?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  I've been positive about that family since their inception.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Like, no one in this country knew about the Kardashians, and I did.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  No, you were talking, you were using them in stand-up before anybody knew who the fuck you were talking about.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  To the point I was told to stop.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Like, my agent was like, people do not know these women.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  And I was like, just wait. Yeah, yeah. Just wait.

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Really caught me coded, am I right? And people are like, what?

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Exactly that. But that's the story of my career. I've always just been like, I'd speak about the things I'm interested in. And then I think, and that's what everyone should do. And then slowly your audience finds you. You don't go out there, we know. Romesh is a messy little bitch who lives for drama. Sorry to break the fourth wall just then, but we slag people, certain people off in the WhatsApps. Who are doing.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 11:44Speaker 00

  What are you talking about?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  And they do like the mathematics of comedy and they know what it is.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, look, some people, yes.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  They're pandering and solicitous.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  Absolutely, totally agree. Yeah, and they know who they are. And one day we'll release the WhatsApps.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  I hope not.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  When we're ready to end careers and friendships.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Our careers, I mean.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  But I think you've always been very authentic and people warmed to that. And then same with me, for better or worse, I've always been exactly like this.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  I don't think I've been as authentic as you have. I think I'm more malleable than you are. And I think that's one of the things that I think when people are Katherine Ryan fans, they're super, super in. And I think it's because you are unashamedly authentic. You will say whatever the hell you think, even if it causes issues, you know, like. And you're not trying to cause it. That's the other thing, you're not trying to cause an issue, you're just saying what you think. And then, but you don't give it, you don't seem to give a shit about any kind of backlash or any critique.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Well, I care about people's feelings, I do.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  There's honesty with manners and I'm not born yesterday. Like I know what is hate speech, I know what's gonna really rile people up. I don't really like throw around, I don't have any like wild values that I need to be careful of.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  I think there are people who have some like secret wild values, so they're being careful and they don't, they wanna be liked, they don't know what to say.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 00

  So that, so that, you, you're, what you're saying is you don't have to be performative because you don't believe anything wild.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  I'm, well, I'm pure of heart.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I am.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  I wasn't, I just, I just say, that's, yes, that's another way of saying it. Yeah, yeah, you're pure of heart.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Like a care bear.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Who would you rather be besties with, Celine Dion or Shania Twain?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Wow, well, I'm already besties with Shania Twain.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Because you did Canada's Got Talent.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Because we did Canada's Got Talent together and I did ask Shania Twain about Celine Dion.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  And what did she say?

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Because Shania Twain has access to everyone. She said that the Celine Dion that you see climbing on the cars and singing and dancing in Paris and doing her little moves. There's so many memes about Celine Dion. Have you ever seen the one where she's like, somebody asked me, what size is your shoe? And I say, what size do you have? I'll make it work. When a girl loves her shoes, like she's always just talking crazy.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  She wears any size shoe, she like doesn't even know her shoe size.

• 14:04Speaker 00

  Was that real?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  If she likes the shoe, she wears the shoe, was not a metaphor.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Oh, I thought that was just like a bit, so she actually does do that?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  I'll make it work.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  She's like, don't ask me what size I am. So Shania said she's exactly like that all the time.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Like on her day off, she's like that, sat in a room like this, she's like that, she's always like that.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Misshapen feet.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Now, I've actually got your present.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Wanted to get you a gift that summarizes our friendship, so just.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Have a look and see what you think.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  I love it already.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  What do you think?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  I love it, I love it. And I, like what you don't realize, that you've really played yourself. Because I'm gonna wear this on television, on podcasts, like on my Instagram. And I think you know that that is true, because didn't I seek out a very eccentric woman online?

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Okay, so, so can I, I'm gonna give you the back grand story of this present.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  The original version of that present was, we had an image from that woman. But it'd be, it's just because, you know, full disclosure, Georgie is responsible for, I'm the idea, I'm like Steve Jobs. And Georgie's like one of the children making the iPhones.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Well, no, what I mean is, I just go, I think it'd be cool if we sourced this, found this woman. And then I do nothing to help that happen. So I, even I, in my emperor like kind of realized that's too difficult. So then we went for this, but we, I didn't, I couldn't remember the woman's name. And what was so special about the woman? So she, that's a great point, John, thank you for producing the podcast.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Alison, go on, Alison.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  She had done images of all of us, did she do one of you?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I think she did, but yours, there was something about yours that was so beautiful.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Just loads of comedians with really droopy tits. And so she did an image of me and she was doing loads of, and for some reason.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  On Taskmaster, you wore a jacket with my image with droopy tits on the back of it.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I bought it from her, I reached out, yeah. What was she doing, crocheting it or she made it?

• 16:23Speaker 00

  I think so, yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  She's such an artist and yours, well, that was 2015, 16, a decade ago. I already loved you so much that I was like a fan, I just wanted to wear your face on my jacket, just like a fan does for like sports.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  You're so foolish.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  I did. And so, and I wore it until it was stolen.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Yes, it was stolen. Well, or somebody threw it out, you don't know for definite what happened, do you?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Well, do you know what I'm learning in my old age?

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Old age, 43?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yep, if I think it is, then it is.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  And I've been right so much and I'm learning to trust my instincts and I really know that this nanny stole it.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  A nanny stole it?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  If that nanny's out there, could you return the jacket, please?

• 17:07Speaker 01

  She's not, she was a short-lived nanny and we'd catch her like.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  She's not out there anyway, anywhere.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  She's just probably like.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Did you have her killed?

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Robert, there's no point reaching out to her, she's dead.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Unless she is dead, which is fucking dark.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  I think she's gone back to like wherever is her native place.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  All right, Tommy Robertson.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  I didn't wanna say gone back to where she came from.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, sure.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  I think she was like the most clever, what is it called? Like a, not a mark, but the opposite of a mark, like she came in professional. We got robbed during her very brief time with us, like actual robbed by like a man who climbed through the window.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  With a knife, a real man.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Is this the guy that Bobby tackled?

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yes, that was during her brief trial period. She was so nice and kind, but then also all these things started to go missing. And she would take photos of stuff, even though she signed an NDA, we'd be like, why are you photographing all Bobby's clothes? But she must have been a fan as well.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Cause that, your jacket was one of the first things that she pinched.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Well, thank God she's gone back to where she's come from. Am I right?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Sri Lanka. No, just kidding, she wasn't.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  Now, one of the things that we've, people have said that have come on this podcast. Is that they've come to shindigs at your place.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  And enjoyed themselves.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  I, I, I feel like you're the most antisocial, social person I know. Why do you invite people to your home?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Because it's in the day, as much as I'm an introvert, I also am like a daytime alcohol enthusiast.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  So I feel like if I do a really amazing kids' party.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  And I do write about this in my new book, First Born Daughter.

• 18:53Speaker 00

  We are gonna get to it, just relax.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  I spend like honestly thousands on children's birthday parties and I have it catered and I'll have a bouncy castle, I'll have entertainers, I'll have like an open bar and I do all these things. I kinda treat the kids' birthdays like weddings and I think that's like a poverty reflex. I think I started doing it once Violet and I got to a place where we were comfortable. I was like, let's show everyone that like you are fine. I started having these wild parties and they've gone badly sometimes. Like people get really pissed when you offer them an open bar at 11 a.m. at a children's party. There was this one party, so I know the party you're talking about that you weren't invited to. And the reason I didn't invite you to that is out of basic respect, that I'm very North London.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  You're very South London. Everyone can see, and I know I'm gonna have the listeners on side, that you work 24 hours a day. You're, you know what I mean? There was a bit of blowback in that BBC advert.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Yes, a lot of blowback.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Cause they were like, oh, finally Romesh is getting some work.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  I really enjoy those comments.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know you do.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Because it says to me, yeah, he's so successful that it makes people mad.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  But it doesn't make me mad, it just makes me be like, you know what's gonna happen? I'm gonna send you that invite and you're gonna look at your phone, like I look at my phone when I'm invited to stuff and you're gonna go, oh. And you're gonna feel obliged and your kids are of the age that they don't wanna come to my five-year-old son's birthday party.

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  And you're gonna be like, yeah, but Catherine, you haven't seen her in a while, we are good mates, she had that jacket stolen, da, da, da.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  You're gonna make Lisa and the family go to North London, I don't want that for you.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, is that really the reason?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  That is really the reason.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  Cause you can tell me, and I wouldn't be offended if you just said you're a bit of a drag at a kids' party.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  You are not a drag at a kids' party.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Can you imagine? You're the most interesting person I know. Also in my book, First Born Daughter, I say, and I, I don't know if you've even read it, you're probably gonna act later when we talk about First Born Daughter, available October 22nd. You're gonna act like you've read it. I say that you know everything about me, I will tell you every secret that I know, I tell you first. And Jimmy. And Jeff Norcutt.

• 21:07Speaker 00

  Okay, so the three of us?

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  Jeff, Jimmy and Rom. Okay. I don't mind being part of that group. That's all right.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Oh, but.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Go on.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I was gonna say the one party.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  The one?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  Years ago, got totally out of hand.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Which one?

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Years ago, it was probably Violet's fifth or sixth birthday.

• 21:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  And these mums came and there had been like a school marathon that day. So all of them.

• 21:33Speaker 00

  A school marathon?

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So for charity or whatever, I don't involve myself in them exercise.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  No.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  But they were like running. So they arrived at the party dehydrated, having run a race. And this was probably one of the biggest parties. Um, you know Freud?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Like the media.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  So one of the brothers is a wonderful party planner. They organized the party for me. It was no joke, this party. It was video game themed. I had a little Mario brother dressed up staff at the party. It was like a big party. It was like the first time I ever had.

• 22:02Speaker 00

  I hadn't done the BBC advert at that point.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  No, no. But it was the first time.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  I really had like.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  I've probably done a couple of Mock the Weeks, maybe.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  So not mega busy. Anyway, carry on, Dick, continue.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Okay. Um, and the mums showed up and they drank that bar dry. They got so wasted. And they started the day like nice mums and they ended the day like smoking in the venue. Roisin Conady walks in and one of the mums just goes, hey Joker. And she was like, what the fuck? And then these mums started like rinsing us, just being like, yeah, I know a lot of the shit that you make. I don't really think you're funny. Like they were nuts. They got so drunk. And then one of the mums was like, my husband's at your house. Where is he? I know he's at your house. And I was like, I gotta rethink these parties. Like they got so wasted. You should have been at that one.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  I did a thing where on my last tour, we did a show at Manchester. And afterwards, because it was the last one of the tour, we had like a little party backstage afterwards. Let's just say a relative from my, via my brother's marriage, right? Got in touch with me and said, can I get seven tickets to your Manchester show, right? So I'd assumed it was members of his family, right? It wasn't. It was people he worked with, right? So they turn up after the show, drink more than anybody else, get completely battered. They're like smashing through the champagne, come over and ask for photos, but are quite bullshy with it.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm sort of trying to feel that, but at the same time, I'm trying to celebrate the end of the tour. And then one of the women, they've had three tickets, they've drunk the bar dry, comes up to me and says, I just wanted to say that I was a fan, but I found you quite disappointing tonight. Can you fucking believe that shit? And can I just say, if that woman is watching this podcast, I hate you. And anytime you watch anything I do, just remember the person who's at the center of it does not like you. You're not welcome at anything I do. You're not welcome to watch or enjoy anything I do.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  And guess what else, bitch?

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, good.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  You can add me to that list.

• 24:07Speaker 00

  Yes. Fuck you. Thank you, Catherine.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  No problem.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Ride or die. Um, now parenting wise, um, four kids.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Are you, would you describe yourself as being in the trenches?

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Well, yes. And people get annoyed if you have nannies, plural. Because.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Because they're like, you don't know what it's like.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Blah, blah, blah, blah. But somehow I have this new to this year. I have a Rota system where because we have.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  So your nannies?

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I used to just have one.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Monday to Friday, seven thirty till four thirty. And then I realized, hang on, I work, yeah, not that one. Um, I work like nights and sometimes I'm working on the weekends and I have all these different children who have birthday parties, different things. They're not all invited, blah, blah, blah. So now we have, and this is genius, four days on one nanny. Then she gets four days off and the other nanny's on four days, four days. So we're covered seven days a week.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Keep some energetic, keep some fresh. But I'm still very much in the mix because I'm always parenting someone. So having a nanny just means that I'm either at work or I'm parenting two or three or one child, sometimes four.

• 25:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  But I just have like that relief of if they want to do different things, like all it means is that I'm still tired, but my kids are spoiled.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  That's nice. You get the best of both worlds.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  It's really bad.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  You know, um, because I know you said that I'm mega busy. You're, you keep, you're very busy. I feel like we're really, you know, we're besties, but I don't ever feel like it's getting on top of you. I know you're tired.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  But it always feels like you've got it handled. Is that a facade? Are you, are your legs going flapping way underneath the surface?

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Not a facade. My mental health is rock solid.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And I don't know why.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  How have you managed that? Is that a mild psychopathy?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  I've explored that.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  I suppose like, well, I don't want to diminish anybody because everything's relative and people have things that stress them out in life.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  And I suppose a lot of anxiety and things like that is chemical. It won't be environmental or situational. So you can't really give advice. Like someone could have very serious things and be mentally upbeat and someone could have something small that eats away at them and causes problems. So I get it. But I just feel like, um, nothing matters very much and very little matters at all.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  I mean, I do agree with that, but like, okay, but can I ask you this question? If you, say, for example, you were having some, without, you know, some terrible situation at home, right? It was, it was all going to shit at home. I don't know. Some nightmare with the kids, some nightmare with Bobby.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  And then you've got to go in and do a TV record. Are you able to completely compartmentalize that?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Disassociation, yes.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  That, not a lot of people can do that. I mean, it's pretty wild.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  And this is something you've always been able to do.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Well, in my twenties, no. And you knew me in my twenties. So I was in bad relationships. That, I think my Achilles heel is romantic relationships because I'm quite, I work as a top, but I live as a bottom. I'm quite like soft and like vulnerable in my romantic relationships. So like I have been upset before by things like that. But I think, I don't know, at work, we're so lucky to do this job. I'm able to, I think because I tell everybody everything. Like I just, I don't keep anything really inside or I try not to.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Though maybe I do because I am riddled with autoimmune disease. And there is a little bit of psychoanalysis that says, firstborn daughters in particular, because I did delve into this for the book. They are hyper competent, um, and really resourceful and resilient, but then they often have like.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  Push it deep, deep down.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Do you, um, I, I think, do you, what, what do you think about the fact that because you are so, sorry, I'm, I'm trying to figure out how to word this. Well, you are beautiful. I mean, you're incredible. Congratulations on that. But you, um, you look like you're completely unflappable, right? And you, and you certainly seem to be completely unflappable. And I sometimes think that what people think that means is that you're hard. I, you know, I, I think that that's sometimes people's perception of you. But you are one of the sweetest, most caring, empathetic people I know. What, does that bother you at all? Or you're aware of that? Or do you think about that at all?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I am also hard sometimes, I think. I think, you know, there, whatever people, I am whatever you say I am. If I wasn't, why would I say I am?

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  I think that if people view me from, I don't really tend to think too much about like how I'm viewed.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Perceived, yeah.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Perceived. Yeah. But I suppose if people perceive me one way, they're right. Like if they think I'm hard, if they think I'm mean, if they think I'm a bitch, if they think like roast jokes are mean, then they're right and that's fine. But it becomes an issue when commissioners are like.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Oh, well, we need someone, especially with a woman, that'll be like, we need someone that's soft. We need someone that's, which is wild to me because I'm like, well, no one's saying that about Jimmy or Frankie Boyle. Or have you ever been said, well, we just don't think Romesh is like soft enough?

• 29:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  They want to describe you like a duvet. Is she warm?

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. People will accept certain characteristics in men a lot more than they will do in women. And, and that's, you know, naturally people don't even realize they're doing it. They'll, they'll see, they'll see assertive and confident in a man as bossy and overbearing in a woman, right? It's just like a, it's just like a dumb thing.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which is fine because I feel like I've just leaned into that a little bit. Like I never set out to hurt men's feelings. If I do, it's just a bonus for me.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Just do it a bit more. You know what I've really gotten into lately? You should join me because I think it's really uplifting is, um, my algorithm knows me so well. And say what you wish about AI, whatever's coming.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  It's over. Within the decade, we're done.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Fine. But I like that my phone really listens and like shows me things I want to buy and shows me like ideas that I like.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  And when my algorithm brings stuff up, I just comment on loads of random videos now. And then people will find me in the comments, be like, what's Katherine Ryan doing in these comments? I just comment on, and not hateful comments.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  But sometimes, you know, like there was a woman on TikTok and her husband was, um, in hospital, like, like hooked up to all these, she's like non-responsive.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  Catherine, none of this sounds funny. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be completely honest with you. The, the timing of your descent into giggles couldn't have been worse times.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  She was being funny about it though.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Right, okay.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  She was doing like a Love Island voiceover. She, she was being Olivia and she was like, I don't know what you're getting from this relationship, but I'm not really getting a lot. Blah, blah, blah. Whatever the thing was, she was like, and then I wrote, he's giving you the bare minimum, babe. Leave him, diva. I found a lot of other like funny women in the comments who've been saying, you know, like, what's he got a cold? Like it was so fun in there.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  It was really fun in the comments.

• 31:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And then, and then a quite a serious bit, this one woman was telling her partner to go because he'd mentioned what she was eating and said that she should lose weight. He indicated whatever and she goes, you know what? This is my house, pack your bags and go. And he was like, and I commented, why is it still talking after pack your bags and go? Like, I'm just in the, and then you meet people. I love, like, I really have a really vibrant social life in the comments.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  But I'm not trolling, I'm just like.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  No, you're just joining in.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Just putting some little jokes.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  You said in your book that you're using AI to help you manage your messages.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  How the hell do you do that?

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Um, it's really good, actually. So you can like, stop, because people are going to get really mad.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  Well, you said it in your book, didn't you?

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  You can just be like.

• 32:23Speaker 00

  What I'm saying is, it's in the book, it's gonna be out there.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  So.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  And in it, you say you'd welcome them as our overlords?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, no. So here's the thing with AI. I don't use it to be like, here's what I would have looked like in the eighties. And I'm not like making videos, I don't know like what the water situation is, but I'm.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Fifteenth of a teaspoon for every query.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 32:47Speaker 00

  I believe.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  All right, so I have queries.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  And the world is safer.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  Let's just get it out of the open, how many teaspoons do you reckon you're burning through?

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Probably a teaspoon a day.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  A teaspoon a day?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  I do have queries and the world is safer if I'm like getting those questions answered.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Sure, because why do people die?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a curious mind. So I have queries and then I also have four children and I kind of look down on people who have a real life, physical assistant. Do you have one?

• 33:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Right?

• 33:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, thanks for asking that question after you'd.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  I knew, but I kind of knew you didn't have one because we have the same wonderful manager, Flo, and I feel like the office, like, sorry.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  They deal with it, right?

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Who needs an assistant when they're like, walk out the door and get in the car?

• 33:32Speaker 00

  I know, I know, I know.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Like, you need some chick with you who like is also like making your lunch? I don't get it, I don't get it.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  So I do ask it to be like, will you please read the messages that my daughter sent about her rehearsal schedule and put that in my calendar? And it will take the family calendar that has like 50 million things in it and it will highlight like Violet has rehearsal at four, Violet has, because Violet is in a theatrical program, like your son, we have so much in common. And I wouldn't be able to manually, I'd get sick in the car. So yeah, like I use it for that and I love using it for that. And people want to get angry, but I feel like those are the same people who are angry about the tractor.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  And the printing press.

• 34:18Speaker 00

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• 35:51Speaker 00

  Anything you want else you want, we're gonna talk about your book shortly, I don't want you to panic. But apart from the book, Firstborn Daughter, have you got anything left that you want? You've done loads and loads and loads of stuff. Is there stuff that you wanted that you haven't done?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Um, it's interesting because I chose a path of, you know, self-sacrifice, motherhood is a scam. And I'm glad, like I'm existentially rewarded. Not everybody wants to have kids, but I do believe more and more certainly that if you are the mother and also you work a lot, it's like, it's something's gotta give. You can't be everywhere at once. And I have cho, I am like an attachment parent. I do believe in being home as much as possible. I co-sleep, Bobby and I both co-sleep, five of us, in one room on like two super king mattresses on the floor because.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Because that's what you've worked so hard for.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I work so hard for.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Sleep on the floor.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  Like illegals above an Indian restaurant.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, damn it, I could have put that in the book as well.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Um, but, but.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  But.

• 37:00Speaker 00

  But both of us have children.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Both of us are incredibly successful, prodigiously talented. My journey undoubtedly easier than yours, right? And, and do you sometimes think that people don't credit? I don't know how much credit you want for that, but it's a different route, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? We've had the same route, but our experiences are different, right?

• 37:18Speaker 01

  It's not that I want any credit for it whatsoever, like these are my choices and I don't, I, I think it's weird to like hold yourself aloft as like, I am a sacred vessel because I chose to have kids. Fine, I chose to have kids, I chose to parent them the way that I parent them. But then you look at someone like Nikki Glaser and how much she's achieved since I became like a pregnant like a stray cat, just like a breeding farm. And then you think, hmm, every once in a while you go, if I'd stayed in America, because like I didn't even go to America for three years because I was quite busy at home and didn't want to travel with babies and it just didn't make any sense. And then when I'd go there, they, I'd like bring a baby, breastfeed it on the plane, like the flight would be delayed, I'd be demoted to premium economy, like all these things would happen, these horrible things happen to me.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  And then, and then, and then they'd be like, oh, you wanna jump on stage? Do you wanna get, oh, like, Winnie in Town? And I'd be like, I don't, I don't have that life anymore. Having said that, I wouldn't do anything differently and I have been kind of creeped out by Hollywood in the last few years, like quite creeped out. I think Los Angeles is an illness, like a virus and.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  I think celebrity is an illness.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  But some people are immune.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  So I think you could move in and out, and I love Nikki Glaser, certainly I have nothing bad to say about Nikki Glaser, but I think you could move in and out of Hollywood and you could still be rom.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  There are some people that, they just.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. So are you telling me that as successful as you are, there are things that you wish you could have been more successful? Is that what you're saying?

• 38:51Speaker 01

  It's not that I wish, it's that sometimes I'll see something. I don't know if I could have been, I'll never know, but sometimes I look and I, I have a moment of thinking, hmm, should I have tried? Should I have focused more on that? Could I have been happy doing that?

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Where would you be had you gone that route instead?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  I will never know, but then I think, nah.

• 39:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  I like what I did.

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  I think it was the right path for me, but, but what the point I'm making is I don't think dads have to choose as much.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  Because let's not forget how fat I got.

• 39:22Speaker 00

  But you brought it back, well done.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I mean, it took a lot of science and discipline and I'm not finished yet. So this year was supposed to be my hottest year on record and that hasn't been possible for me.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  Is that what you're saying? You, you want, you want to be, you want this to be the hottest year of your life?

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Well, it's too late in the year, so it's rolled over, so it's gonna be next year, so.

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Okay, but you look hot.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you say that because you love me.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  Pardon?

• 39:47Speaker 01

  You say that because you love me.

• 39:48Speaker 00

  No, I would, I would just, I would sort of, I would sort of gloss over it.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  By the way, speaking of comments, on the social media videos, you look hot and people are noticing.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  Um, I think there's, there's a difference and what I think the difference is, is, is you've always been here, whereas what I have done is I've cultivated almost a level of sup.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Look at the before and after, go on. You and I have had like serious glow ups since this pic.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, arguably not the best pic of us.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Why did we have to be so poor?

• 40:26Speaker 00

  I know, I know.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  You hated your clothes in that, didn't you?

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  But let's not forget, again, I was pregnant when we filmed that.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  And hiding it from everyone.

• 40:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  And that was stressful. And then I was like getting fatter and fatter. And then I kept like puking by the side.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Remember the ultrasound scene?

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Then we had an ultrasound scene where this like wacky embryologist was like, I'm gonna give you an ultrasound. And I was like, maybe don't do that because I was actually pregnant.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 03

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• 41:33Speaker 05

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• 42:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, it really is a perfect storm of fuckeries when you're on a sitcom trying to hide your pregnancy and one of the scenes involves a real ultrasound.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  It's called insurance fraud.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I didn't know I was pregnant, but I had a hunch.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Would you like, would you like to, I know we're not talking about forsaken dreams or whatever.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  But do you feel like you could have done more America, or you'd want to do more America stuff?

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Now?

• 42:32Speaker 00

  No.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  But you would, but you, in the past, maybe that would have been a route for you.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Well, I had been kind of trying. It's hard to think like, what, what would I have been doing? Not that I'm saying it would have worked or anything like that, but you know, this wholesome path, I feel like I have a lot of control over what I do. I'm very comfortable living here. I'll die like happy with my choice. It's not like I'll be in, you know, a plastic surgeon's office after like a wrong turn and all my children will be around me and I'll be like, I didn't have to have all of you. I could have tried

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  to make it in America. Nah.

• 43:07Speaker 00

  No.

• 43:08Speaker 01

  I could still try as like an elderly woman if I wanted.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Forty-three?

• 43:13Speaker 01

  No, like my kids are still babies.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  The kids have grown up.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  But America like truly makes me sick now. No offense to America.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Super fucked. Yeah, but, but I, I think, look, you've, you've achieved amazing success. I still don't think you get the credit you deserve because I actually think you're freakishly talented.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  Your comic mind is unbelievable. And actually, that's why I'm so glad to talk about a book that's a perfect snapshot of that. Confessions of a firstborn daughter.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank you.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  Following on from your standup special, same note, but this, this cover's incredible, by the way.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Why? You don't agree?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Uh, we had discussions last minute about like using a childhood photo of me and my sisters.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Where I look quite like tortured in the face. I look quite like stoic. It kind of, I think this photo is glamorous and I like that they chose it and I trust them very much. But in the paperback, maybe the childhood photo. And, oh, for the foot fetishes, would you just turn it around one more time?

• 44:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. This is absolute, a veritable wank bank on the back.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  For the WikiFeet man down.

• 44:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. Just hold it still for a second. Okay, Ben. Is this for the podcast or?

• 44:29Speaker 00

  Got it. All right. Do you want to take a picture on your phone?

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Because I think like eldest daughter syndrome.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Begins in childhood. And I think that photo really captures like, oh.

• 44:44Speaker 00

  What is eldest daughter syndrome then?

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Could be bullshit.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Let's start there.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  All right.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  But I've watched a lot of Instagram reels, many TikToks.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  So you've done your research?

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, Momsnet, Reddit, all of this. And it kind of starts with psychoanalysis, like birth order theory. But then there are a lot of other studies toward like why the eldest daughter is the way she is, why she takes on so much, why there's parentification. Like there's boring science stuff, but I've tried to make it funny and apply it to my own life and things I do, like when I argue with experts, why I'm the airport dad.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  What was, what was the genesis of this book then? Did you start, was it like you were sort of looking at Instagram and thinking this is, this resonates for me or something? Or have you always, is this a theory you've always had?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Well, I've always known that I am hyper competent and never ask for help. I do have like problems delegating that. And, and I know a lot of other firstborn daughters that are that way. When I was doing my last tour, I had one line about firstborn daughter. I forget what it was, but I'd be like, anybody have a firstborn daughter after that line? And then it struck me that my entire audience was firstborn daughters. All of them were like, me? And I was like, that's weird. And then every show I started asking. And for some reason, I have this kinship with eldest daughters. And I think the women who like me, and there are sometimes, you know, there are of course couples and men at my shows, really baffled men, husbands who are like youngest sons. You know what I mean? They're

• 46:09Speaker 01

  like, why is my wife always closer to me? I'm like, um, because she's so much better than you. And then I, I realized like, oh, this is like a thing. And it's not a coincidence that the women who seem to like me are either eldest daughters or honorary eldest daughters, which would be like a youngest sibling who happens to like.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  They've taken that role.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, their oldest sister. I don't know what's up with her. There's a big age gap, but she's like captain of the group chat and she checks on her elderly neighbors and she's like the one keeping the family together. She's the diplomat or she's, you know. So I just started noticing these. And then the more I thought about it, the more I thought that could underpin yet another memoir. So this is essentially like a comedy memoir of the last five years.

• 46:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  But through the lens of being kind of a hyper competent psycho.

• 46:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. You've got, you've got a great, you've got a great writing style. Does that, did that come with work? Or is that just, because it is super, it is super funny. And there are lots and lots of, you know, there are sentences in there with like three jokes within, within, it feels like you've thought a lot about how you're expressing yourself. And is that, did that, are you, is that just coming naturally? Or are you thinking carefully about, I want to punch this up or whatever? What's the process of that?

• 47:22Speaker 01

  Well, I think all of my art.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Hmm. Good.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Is.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  It is art.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Very consistent. I think I write the way I speak. I do standup the way I'm very transparent and candid on my podcast. I text you the way I write in this book. I think I have like one speed.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  And all of my work is meant to be, because my favorite comedians are the ones who make me feel like my best friend is telling me a secret.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Right, right, right.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  I like that. And so I think I try to express myself like that. So a lot of it is very stream of consciousness, like my podcast where I'm just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Writing, writing, writing. And then like a lawyer or an editor will come back and be like, you can't say that about that person. I'm like, fine.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Do you ever have that alarm bell ring? Like, do you ever put stuff in there and think, shit, I can't say that? Or does it always have to be somebody else that tells you that?

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Let me think of examples. There's one example where I said how many children someone had. I wasn't supposed to say that.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  And then there's one example of a girlfriend that I have called Yolanda. And I have protected her. So her name is not Yolanda. And I've changed lots of things about the story. And I think you and I probably both, and any standup, becomes an expert at decorating a truth with lies so that you can get it back. Because you can't just go on stage and be like, blah, blah, blah.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Give the exact data.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Stitch people up. Yeah. So you're telling a central truth that resonates with people because it is true. But then you're switching just enough things that that person, and I've, I really cut my chops with boyfriends with this because I can't go around. I think people are entitled to privacy. So I would never go around just, you know, I infamously don't name people. But I, and nobody ever knows who it is that I'm referring to. But I think it's important to speak your truth.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Right.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  And everyone will have their own truth. And I accept that even in a breakup. There are three sides to every story. Fine, they're, they're welcome to tell their truth in any way they want. But I try to keep like people protected. I actually think about that a lot. And if it seems like I don't think about it, that only the lawyers think about it, then I'm doing it right.

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Right. Now, we've got, we've got a question from mother. She's got, she's recorded a question. I don't know what it is.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Hi, my favorite lady.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  I admire you a lot. I'm over the moon, you are in Romesh's podcast. People always telling Romesh how cool his mother is. It's true. I'm not beheaded. Do people tell your children how cool their mummies? Love you always. Have a fabulous day. See you soon, darling.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Love you, Shanti. Bye bye.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  And I'm a mom is a huge fan.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, the feeling is very mutual.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Do your kids, do your kids get told that you're cool?

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yes, as recently as last evening.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Tell me.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Oh, it feels so good when it happens. So my firstborn daughter, who contributes to the audiobook, is seventeen and I totally admire her for a number of reasons. She's very boundaried with romantic relationships especially. I have golden retriever energy, but she's got black cat energy. She'll just like, she clocks people. I just admire her so much. I don't know where she got it because I am not that way in my private life. In her private life, she's Katherine Ryan, public life.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  She's fucking incredible. But it also means that she's a bit dismissive of me and quite mean.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Like, I can't, I don't know if you have this with sons, the way you have it with daughters. But anything I do, she's there to, she's kind of like a bully. I was voice noting.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  Public or anything you do.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Anything I do around the house, like I walk, uh, uh. And nothing, I can't do anything right. I was voice noting our mutual manager flow. I said, hey, lady, and Violet was like, ew. Like, anything I do, I'm really abused. But I'm, again, emotionally regulated enough not to take it personally. I know that that's part of life and leaving the nest and you have to give her her autonomy. And she's not as bad as some little girls. I don't have a child that's like, fuck you, because then it would be over. She'd be the one sleeping on a mattress. But I digress. Every once in a while, we'll go to an event. So we went to a National Youth Theatre event last night at the South Bank, which is wonderful. It was their seventieth anniversary.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And because her contemporaries were there and they were coming up to me and being like, oh, Catherine, no, no, no, no, saying that they think I'm cool, I'm relevant. And I was like, I didn't realize I was relevant with the youth. They're like, you are relevant. Loved that. And then they'd be like, you know, your mom's, like, they were saying things about like, I'm cool. And it never happened.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Did she like, did she acknowledge that?

• 52:26Speaker 01

  No, but like begrudgingly she will, like, I could tell she's like, yeah. And then she'll like be a bit kind on the drive home.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Oh, that's nice.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Speaker 00

  That's really nice. In your dedication to her at the, in the front of the book, you say it's okay to ask for help.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  So, but she shares that with you then, right? Because you, are you saying you both display hypercompetence? And you think she should be asking for, for more support? Is that what you think?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  I do, yeah, because I don't want her to be so boundaried that she misses out on some of the softness of life. And I think that I like the way that I am. I think there is this like dissonance with firstborn daughters. If you subscribe to this gendered birth order theory, which I obviously very much do.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  And that's for Ben.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  I think, I wanted a picture of my ass on the back, but they said, no.

• 53:26Speaker 00

  We'd have to stop the episode for fifteen minutes if you've done that.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  No, they took a look at it and they said, no, it's not right.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  No, we can't, that can't be enough.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  No, no, not till next year. But.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Hold on, what are you doing to your ass next year?

• 53:38Speaker 01

  I'm not sure, but it will be something.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  Like what? What are you, what are the frontrunners or backrunners?

• 53:45Speaker 01

  So I don't know. You know, the popular procedure where they try to find fat in your body with, through like a cannula and liposuction and they harvest that and they put it in your bum.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Somewhere else, yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  But then I think people went a little wild with that. And they all looked like they had, like, I don't know, unnatural proportions for.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Like you could leave stuff on there for a bit.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Irish Celtic person.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you don't want it to be heritage betraying.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's a little bit.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Tricky, isn't it?

• 54:18Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  So then I might do that, but only mildly. Because it is the deadliest surgery you can get.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Is it?

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Well, did you hear about this Nigerian British guy called Tiny something? Yep, you and I are on the same algorithm. He was having hyaluronic acid, so not his own fat, but like a filler, injected into his penis for the fourth time.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  And was he trying to get girth or girth?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  So they can do.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  And where was it, what was it, huh?

• 54:50Speaker 01

  They do like down the shaft, girth, girth. But sometimes if you're really creative, they'll do rings around the shaft to make it like ribbed for her pleasure. They can do amazing things with the dick now.

• 55:01Speaker 00

  Have a ribbed penis?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Uh huh. But you might die and he did. He had a pulmonary embolism sadly. So the filler entered a blood vessel, traveled to his lungs, traveled to his heart. It's very sad. And that happens a lot, well, not a lot, but it happens enough with the bum.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  So I might not do it, because I might die.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  But worth it if I don't.

• 55:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, worth it if you don't, absolutely. Arguably worth it if you do, if you want to be buried face down.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  And I do, I do.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  So I think part of what people don't like about me is the audacity that I have to be like, I'm one of the prettiest girls in the world. Because it's like, it's like a cheat, like I don't deserve to feel that way. Like, they're like, well, hang on, no, you're not. And it's like, yeah, well, I have a lot of confidence. I definitely think I'm prettier than I am. And this high maintenance stuff is just so I can be low maintenance in real life. So I've made an effort for the podcast because of the numbers you get. Congratulations to everyone on that.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  But.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  So if we hadn't got these sort of numbers, you wouldn't have bothered?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  No makeup, yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  And you can see.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember from when you came on Hip Hop Saved My Life.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Eating.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you ate on the podcast. We had the most complex we've ever had.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Understand, I didn't know really what a podcast was. I didn't know what a podcast was.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  And I've never been invited back on that.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  It's dead now.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  So.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Does Wolf and Owl have guests?

• 56:30Speaker 00

  No.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Haven't been invited either, that's why, okay. But I'm also going to get my implants out to answer a question.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  You're going to get your implants out?

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Out.

• 56:37Speaker 00

  How come?

• 56:37Speaker 01

  I've got them out a lot in the last twenty years, mostly for free drinks. But this time, I think I've breastfed for so long.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  When I clear customs, I have to declare myself as dairy produce at this point. I've been breastfeeding for six years and.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Six years of breastfeeding?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I just think they got so huge that it put me off, big boobs, maybe for life.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Really?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just like, why? And breast implants are so emblematic of like the naughties. It's like a tramp stamp, like a lower back tattoo.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  To male gaze satisfying, is that, is that?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I'm not interested in the male gaze, I'm interested in the male gaze.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 57:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  And.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Homosexuals.

• 57:17Speaker 01

  They probably like implants.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Seen them on Drag Race.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  But you can take those off and hang them on the bedside, you know? I like fashion boobs now.

• 57:28Speaker 00

  Fashion boobs? What are fashion boobs?

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Like boy nipple.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Right, yeah.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Chic.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  So, so that you can wear a top that cuts right the way down to here and then it.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I'm basically trying to look like Celine Dion.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it, I get it. I do think it's interesting, the thing about, you know, if you say that you're pretty.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  Because if you go, if you go online, if, if a woman goes online, I'm being, I'm, I'm generalizing to a possible cancellation level here. But if a woman goes online and says, I look terrible, right? Loads of, all the comments will say, you shouldn't say that about yourself. You look amazing, you should celebrate yourself. And I agree with all of that. But then it, my argument, counter argument to that is if you then, if you post that video, photo, and a woman said, I look fucking amazing, right? There would be people that go, you don't look as good as you think you, do you know what I mean? It's, it feels like we celebrate, not celebrate, we're kinder to people that, that talk shit about themselves, right?

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Especially in this country, they love being self-deprecating. And I was a little bit provocative and radical when I came in and I never was that. I am though, I am self-deprecating, but you kind of have to find it. But I look on the surface like I'm not, because I'll say like, I'm smart, I'm beautiful, I'm humble, I'm perfect. And I'm like, I'm joking.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  I have flaws like everybody else, but I think that, yeah, it really upsets people, especially in this country. Which is why you see people, someone in particular, and I will, I'll tell you in the WhatsApp. But if, well, it's my sister, so.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  I have to, so, so she knows she does it, so. My sister has a.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  It was just the, the length of time before you just decided you're gonna.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  It's just better, to be honest.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Because then you never have to remember what you said.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  No, absolutely.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  It's just my sister, so. She has a very engaging dog talk on TikTok. Her whole account is like talking about different breeds and stuff. And she's got all these like huskies for some reason, malamutes, I don't know what's going on in Western Canada. But I have two sisters and the youngest one posts thirst traps. Like, if it wouldn't get her banned, she'd post herself absolutely naked. I have big cushions around my house of my sister in lingerie just screen printed onto the cushions for no reason. She'll just like send me those cushions, just at regular intervals, like, like boudoir photos of herself. My mother also has boudoir photos of herself, like.

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  Now my eyes are pricked up.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Thank you. Well, these women just do that. And then my middle sister arguably has the best body of any of us. But she won't, there's something about her that she's like, oh, she's quite shy about posting thirst traps. So she'll just be like, and her son is the victim in this because she'll be like, at the beach with Richard. And it'll be like her ten year old son's like, and then she'll be in a bikini and her like perfect boobs are out. But she'll just be like frolicking with my son in the waves and it's not that. I'm like, don't do that, just be like, look at my fucking body. And then, you know, but there are so many women like that who, who feel that they have to ask for permission. And I just am not that way and it does upset people.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  If I want to post a thirst trap, I absolutely will.

• 1:00:48Speaker 00

  Right, it's time for a little, our little game of misquoted, which I know you're a huge fan of.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  I am, yeah.

• 1:00:54Speaker 00

  Some of these things you said, some of them you didn't.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Good luck.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Wait, in the book or just in life?

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  In life.

• 1:01:01Speaker 00

  Um, here's your first one. Did you or did you not say this? Enough with the Canadian cliches.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  No, I didn't say that.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  You seem very certain.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't say that.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  You didn't say that, wasn't it? That's probably why you were so certain. The real, it's, it's, you said some, not something like it, but something in the same area. Everything we eat has some maple syrup in it. I sound like Buddy in Elf.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  It's the times in 2026. Do you put it in bolognese?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Um, yes, actually. Yeah, I do. But so in Elf, he put it on spaghetti noodles, but you don't want to do that. Buckwood maple syrup, it really is delicious. It's one ingredient.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  I know, I've seen you talking about it online.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it is a replacement for any sweetener, any honey, golden syrup, sugar. And none of those are as good for you or have the antioxidants of buckwood maple syrup.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  Why is maple syrup so good for you?

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Apart from the brand fee?

• 1:01:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, apart from the brand fee.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Because.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  So when I said, I meant, obviously it's good for you.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  I meant generally speaking.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  But I don't, this is the thing. The other thing about me is that people notice that I'm a little bit commercial, like I do sponsorships and stuff, but only for stuff.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  Didn't you go to a thing as a WhatsApp?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  But only for things I actually love.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  And use, like WhatsApps, like buckwood maple syrup.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Gusto?

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Actually, I had gusto on the way here. I fucking love gusto.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  I know you do.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Like, I know you love it.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  Because obviously, I, you know, I, I think if, whatever brand partnership, whatever advert you want to do, I don't, it doesn't matter. I think, you know, you've got to do what you've got to do.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  It matters, it does matter slightly.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  Well, no, I'm not, look, obviously if there's, if there's an ethical issue, I get there's a problem there. But if you want to promote something, promote something. But I feel like with gusto, you've, I can tell.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  They're not paying me.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  You fucking love gusto.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really do.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  Um, so. But maple syrup is good. It's a good alternative to any sweetener.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  It's lower glycemic, you can put it in your tea and coffee. It's just like much better for you. It doesn't give you that sugar spike of actual sugar.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  You know those, and I would just say, I'm not being paid by buckwood maple syrup. But I would say, based on what Catherine said, you know, those times when you're sitting down and you're hankering for a really sweet bolognese?

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  That's what buckwood can do.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Listen to me. When you're making the bolognese sauce.

• 1:03:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Don't forget about the noodles.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  A lot of even Italian chefs will like put in a bit of sugar when they're.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  When, at the beginning stages with the onions, salt and sugar, you just put a bit of buckwood maple syrup.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  No, I remember in Goodfellas, he just squeezes the bottle.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't do it like.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  After he sliced the garlic really thin.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, okay, here's your next one. My son is a toxic male. He's four years old and he always wants to fight me.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  He said that to the Evening Standard. Is he a toxic male?

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Not anymore.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  So he has chilled out and now he might be up there with Violet as one of the favorites.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  He's cool, actually. And he like gets me, he likes, he's a lot more like me than I thought. He's a really sensitive, nice kid.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  Uh, what are the challenges of bringing up a, a boy versus bringing up a girl?

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:04:13Speaker 00

  For you, I mean personally, I don't mean generally.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Apart from the cognitive delays.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  The girls.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't have brothers. So.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  You know, I don't, I'm not great at playing like dinosaur and knight and dragon. And I will play those games. I think, this is the other thing that is provocative. When I go on stage and I'm like, my son's a toxic male, people feel sorry for my children on their behalf. They'll go, she hates her son. That boy has the greatest life. Like you have no idea how we bend over backwards to like, show that boy that he is loved and supported and he has a great life. But I find it, I have to make an effort to play with him, whereas, and I give them all the same toys, but the girls don't want to like fight and crash stuff. I just, I prefer coloring and chatting shit, which the girls will do.

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  Okay. You're doing really well at this game so far.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  Do you feel any sense of pride in how well you've done?

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  No, it's just what comes with authenticity.

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Did you or did you not say this? I love scrubbing toilets. It's weird, but I take great pride in treating the loo like it belonged in a fancy hotel.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  I remember saying that, but I would say that, and I love scrubbing toilets.

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  Female first, 2020.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Oh, they would have, female first. And here I am, one of the feminists, being like, I love scrubbing toilets, giving trad wife.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  I shouldn't have said that to female first.

• 1:05:39Speaker 00

  Well, they printed it.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Rage bait.

• 1:05:43Speaker 00

  Is that still true? You love scrubbing toilets?

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Love it, yeah. I have a standard of like excellence for at least the main floor loo.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  Talk me through, okay.

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  If people come to your house, are they allowed to take a shit in your downstairs loo?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  People, yes. Not a resident though, like the children, my husband, no.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely not. They're not even allowed in the downstairs loo.

• 1:06:04Speaker 00

  If somebody needs a shit at your house.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  You don't want them to go upstairs.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  They can if they want. They could if they want, but I don't know what's up there because the children all take themselves to the toilet. You probably remember what that's like. They don't always flush, sometimes there's like wee on the seat, there's this, there's that. But I can guarantee a premium experience if a guest enters the main floor loo.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  Okay. And you wouldn't mind somebody curling one out on your downstairs loo?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  No, I wouldn't.

• 1:06:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  I want people to feel very welcome.

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  Sure, but different people have different. So what's, what, talk me through the, I don't really, you don't have to go into explicit detail.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:39Speaker 00

  How many stages are there to a toilet scrub?

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Oh, not many. So I've seen TikTok videos, they're actually really dangerous and I'm glad we're taking time to discuss this today. So there will be.

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  These are the two things that your team said to me is talk about the book and this toilet thing.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. There will be women, let's be honest, I haven't seen any men in these videos, but I'm sure they exist, who chuck a load of crazy stuff, like powders and bleaches and they mix it and.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  Bicarbonate of cider?

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  That one's fine.

• 1:07:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  But all the very like, um.

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  Lagama chili oil?

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Uh, chili oil, you can.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Oh, chili oil, good idea. Coke, full fat coke?

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, full fat coke.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  But the women who are chucking in like very nitrous, you know, like things, if you mix those things, they can create a gas that kills you. It could like go in your lungs and burn, people have chemical burns in their lungs from like going crazy cleaning the toilets. So I don't use a thousand things.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  I just use like the, the toilet bleach that has like a little curved thing.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, under the, inside the.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  In the rim, yeah. I like go all around many, many times. I like scrub it really well. Then I have a spray that smells really nice that I do with like, and this isn't since I took a man as a husband and had a little boy. But I do have to spray like all around the seat and the thing and the handle and everything else. And I also make sure the toilet brushes are clean. Cause there are people who've lived in a home for 10 years and they have not replaced, nor have they cleaned their toilet brushes.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  I mean, sometimes.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  You pull out a toilet brush, it's like a fucking Mumbai Backstreet.

• 1:08:08Speaker 00

  Isn't it?

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Not in my house, no.

• 1:08:10Speaker 00

  No, not in your house.

• 1:08:11Speaker 06

  You discovered the rubber ones.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  What rubber ones?

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  That are like disposable?

• 1:08:15Speaker 06

  No, no, like rubber toilet brushes, best thing ever.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  No, I don't like those, no. Mm, mm, mm, mm.

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Why are they better?

• 1:08:21Speaker 06

  Because the white ones go all brown and horrible and right, but the rubber ones, they actually, they're, they're better. They just work better.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  I disagree, no. The rubber doesn't scrub, but you need bristles, but you can get black bristles.

• 1:08:30Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:30Speaker 06

  I was wrong, no, I don't like the rubber, the rubber aren't so good.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  It's loads better.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  Be honest with me.

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  They don't go brown and horrible, but those that don't clean the toilet, it sounds like.

• 1:08:38Speaker 06

  No, it's, they don't work well.

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  But have you cleaned a toilet?

• 1:08:41Speaker 06

  Anyways, what's the next next quote here?

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  I'll tell you what I've really got into in terms of toilet cleaning. Pumice stone on a stick, really good. Really good. Yeah, like if you, you know, if you really want to give it a good polish, but you don't want to scratch the, the porcelain. It's like a little kind of soft stone on the end of a thing, you can really get in there, it's good.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Oh, and so do you buy this as one thing or are you like fetching a stick?

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  I, I bought a bunch of them, like bananas.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  I, I, I think they, um, I would say they dissolve quicker than I would like. I was led to believe by the online marketing. That they were more resilient than they are.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  So this is a late night TikTok shop purchase?

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  That's my thing is, uh, late night, have a look online, discover that this pumice stone on a stick is life changing. Purchase, Lisa rolls her eyes. I try and clean the toilet. Pumice stone isn't as good as I thought. I give up on doing that ever again. That's the pattern.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Speaker 00

  Until we die. Catherine, we're at the end.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:46Speaker 00

  We like to end the podcast on a big moment.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  Could you share with us?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  Either an exclusive, the best advice you've been given, a hidden talent, or something you've never said publicly before?

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Um, I do have lipstick on, so it's tricky, but.

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  It's fake.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Can you do that?

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  How the fuck did you just do that?

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  It's pretty good, right?

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  What are you doing?

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  I can't do it.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  Try.

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  I can't even attempt.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  And now I have the bonus of this guy.

• 1:10:38Speaker 00

  I can't do it. Can you do it? Do you want to try?

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  So can you show me again?

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  So, pinky up.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Laughing so much and I'm going to get lipstick everywhere.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Keep your lips still against this and just do a.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  Is that it?

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Speaker 00

  Oh, sounds so ethnic.

• 1:11:16Speaker 00

  Please. Do me the honor of giving a massive round of applause to one of the greatest comedians in the world. My very favorite. Katherine Ryan, everybody!

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  Thank you, guys.

• 1:11:34Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode. Before you go, if you've enjoyed this episode and you've not subscribed, that's a bold decision, crazy behavior. Follow and subscribe to the Romesh Wang and Ethan Show wherever you listen. It helps me, really, like really helps me, it helps the team and it costs you absolutely nothing. We drop episodes every Monday and Thursday. Mondays, I'm joined by great guests. Thursdays, my mum, Shanti, joins me to answer your questions and family dilemmas. I'll see you Thursday with mum, who, let's face it, is who you're actually here for. If you've got a problem you want to solve or a story you want to share, send it to [email protected], voice note or text us on 07731 623355. We can't promise good advice, but you might end up on the show. See you soon.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Oh, shut up, Romesh.

• 1:12:23Speaker 04

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