Fulfillment Maxxing: Why Offline Is The New Online & How to Feel Alive Again

I think a lot of us are quietly struggling with some version of self-obsession right now. So today I want to talk about a different way to think about all of it: fulfillment maxxing. I get into the comfort crisis, the three P's we keep chasing, and why discomfort might be the price of a meaningful life. And what it comes down to is this. Put the phone down. Take small contrary actions, make peace with discomfort – self-obsession is the problem, service is the cure. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: PlantPower Meal Planner: Get $20 off an annual subscription with code RICHROLL20👉🏼https://meals.richroll.com Momentous: Get up to 35% off your first order of Fiber+👉🏼 livemomentous.com/richroll Seed: Use code RICHROLL25 for 25% off your first month of DS-01®👉🏼https://www.seed.com/RichRoll Freaks of Nature: Save 20% with code RICHROLL👉🏼https://www.freaksofnature.com Go Brewing: Use the code Rich Roll for 15% OFF👉🏼https://www.gobrewing.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:04Rich Roll?

  We seem to be suffering from a fatal case of self-optimization obsession. Everywhere you look, you see it. They enhance games, looks-maxing, your morning protocol. We are in this cycle of surface-level gratification-maxing. And what we should be doing is fulfillment-maxing.

• 1:28Rich Roll?

  I want to start by talking about what's happening in modern society right now. It's basically just hard to be alive. We're all daunted by our responsibilities, just getting through the day, meeting our obligations. This is driving a sense of malaise and anxiety that I think is pervasive. Meanwhile, we're being sold this book of lies that all of the happiness and the fulfillment and the lasting satisfaction that we're seeking is on the other side of the next purchase, the next comfort that is just outside of our reach, the next luxury good, the next... Premium experience, all of which, of course, promises to fill that hole in our spirit.

• 2:11Rich Roll?

  And we're happy to be happy consumers and chase those things, the modern conveniences, thinking that if we can make our life a little bit more comfortable, a little bit more convenient by dint of mobile apps or premium goods, that finally, we will feel a sense of satisfaction and lasting happiness. Of course, this never works. At the same time, we're also deluded that the hyper-connected world that we live in is going to deliver a sense of connection. We've all experienced that it's quite the opposite. The more tethered to our devices we are, the more engaged in our doom-scrolling that we become, the more lonely, alienated,

• 2:51Rich Roll?

  and isolated we feel. And yet, we continue to return to this well because these devices are very scientifically designed to light up our dopamine sensors and activate an addictive, compulsive response that keeps us online, so that our technological overlords can continue to profit off of farming our data in the growing attention economy. Meanwhile, there's a widening of the socio-economic gap, meaning that opportunities are more scarce than they have been in the past. And then, of course, our fears are impulso by our social

• 3:29Rich Roll?

  media feeds that then lead us to even trust our relationships less, drive us further apart, as this increasing divide and division around our various opinions continues to escalate and metastasize, while third spaces are continuing to disappear, meaning that not only do we not know our neighbors anymore, we actually don't really want to. And so, within that, our community-oriented spirit that has always been part and parcel of the American experiment seems to be degrading quite precipitously. And with that, we become more and more focused

• 4:11Rich Roll?

  on ourselves. What's important is what I want and how to get it. And this self obsession, while packaged in a way that makes us feel like pursuing it is going to purchase the happiness, the real thing that we want, the meaning, satisfaction, the sense of our lives holding meaning. All of this self obsession is actually antagonizing that goal, the real goal, finding true meaning and lasting happiness and satisfaction. And the bottom line is that all of this self optimization, this enhancement, maxing, all of this looks maxing, these things are proxies for our self obsession, these indulgences

• 4:53Rich Roll?

  of self gratification that operate only on a surface level. We tell ourselves that these are the things that are going to move our lives towards the things that we might only unconsciously be aware that we actually want, which is this sense that like, we matter, my life has meaning, I have purpose, I have direction. But the thing is, all of those are oriented around what Arthur Brooks calls the three Ps. We make these decisions and we engage in these behaviors because we're on the chase for either power, property, or prestige. These material pursuits that we are convinced, even though we know better,

• 5:36Rich Roll?

  are going to get us the happiness and the satisfaction and the fulfillment that we want. Because once we get them, then we will feel like we have transcended uncertainty, the need for constant work, and pain. These are the three truths that Phil Stutz talks about. Unfortunately, it never works. We know this. We keep doing it anyway. What does actually work is disabusing ourselves of this delusion that the pursuit of these three Ps is going to get us to the place that we really want to be. The first thing we need to do is to realize that all of this me, me, me is antagonizing our goal.

• 6:18Rich Roll?

  And what we need to do is pursue another P, and that P is purpose. One of the ways to do that, first of all, is to understand what Arthur Brooks calls "the three macronutrients of happiness", which are enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. These are the things that we should be after. We shouldn't chase happiness. We should try to engage in behaviors that nourish us with those three macronutrients. So essentially, what you're doing is you're broadening the aperture on your life. You don't want to be swimming like a goldfish in a tiny little bowl. You want to think more broadly and you want to start to consider how you're investing

• 7:02Rich Roll?

  in behaviors and decisions that are actually going to drive your life in the direction that you want, so that you don't feel despairing, that you don't feel alone, and that you don't feel like your life is lacking meaning and purpose. So how do we do this? Well, it boils down to some pretty basic shit. The first thing you have to do is you have to do something different than what you have been doing. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to get the same bullshit. Essentially, what you have to do is you have to take a contrary action. This is going to require you to get out of your comfort zone, but you can make the lift very low.

• 7:41Rich Roll?

  What is one thing that you can do today, maybe right now even, that is different than the way you have always done things that will interrupt this pattern, even if it's ever so slightly, and something that you can repeat the next day and the next day after that, something that you can sustain? That is the action you should identify and take, and it doesn't have to be some grand gesture. You don't have to declare that you're setting some crazy goal, or that you're quitting your job, or that you're finally going to do something about your life. Maybe it's just not putting sugar in your coffee, just some act of esteem-building

• 8:23Rich Roll?

  behavior that will engender your life with one grain of sand of self-esteem that you didn't have, had you not taken it. Then you repeat that contrary action. It's called next-right action. And then you build a muscle around that behavior, sustaining it day after day until it becomes second nature, and then you can turn the volume up on what your next contrary action is. These are the building blocks of change. It's the only way. Any change is ever made and it just boils down to these very basic elements. Repeatable, you set yourself up for success by making it an easy lift.

• 9:05Rich Roll?

  And then you start to develop this reflex towards action that has nothing to do with how you feel about it. Because you know you are making an investment in your future self. What you want is consistency and consistency buys you momentum. And momentum is like this mystical spiritual energy that turns hard things into easy things. It's like a wave that you can surf effortlessly. That then engenders even more self-confidence, more self-esteem to take that next step. And handle that more difficult contrary action. Essentially, you're assembling all the pieces to build this foundation for your new life.

• 9:47Rich Roll?

  And every day you're inching your life more and more in the trajectory of the more aspirant future self. So what does this mean? It means you got to get out of your comfort zone. You got to put the fucking phone down and you got to touch grass, be in nature, roll in the dirt, break a sweat, push hard things around, ask a boy or a girl out on a date, set yourself up for failure, experience failure, learn from it, approach life with a greater degree of curiosity, venture to parts unknown and start to develop the confidence and the reflex to say yes to experiences you have historically and always just reflexively said no to.

• 10:32Rich Roll?

  Your life is not going to happen the way you want it to unless you make the decisions and engage in the uncomfortable behaviors that are going to get you there. Nobody else is going to do it for you. You have to take responsibility for this because it's between you and you. And you only have one life to live. So really reflect on what you want that life to be. And however impossible it may feel, basically tripping out on the future and how unimaginable it is, or how inaccessible it feels to you, or reflecting upon your past and all the reasons why you're not going to be able to do that thing, or the regret that you have about not

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  making the decision that might have put you in a place better than where you are right now, all of that is irrelevant. Your life is only happening in the present. The present is the only thing that's actually real. And this moment is your only opportunity to actually do anything about it. All of these, again, are building blocks that are moving your life in the right direction, that are allowing you to claw ever so slowly out of whatever despair and disaffection and sense of disconnection that you're experiencing.

• 11:58Rich Roll?

  These behaviors, these decisions around discomfort have to be oriented around a few fundamental pillars: faith, family, friends, and meaningful work. What is your relationship with spirituality like? What is the quality of your relationships? Are you investing in your friends? As Arthur Brooks would say, your real friends, not your deal friends. Are you showing up for them? Are you stepping outside of your self-obsession to invest in the people you care about, in your community, in meaningful work, in work, and in pursuits that are bigger than yourself? Especially when that investment is inconvenient.

• 12:43Rich Roll?

  It's not about making sure that your self-obsessions are intact. It's about putting them aside and learning how to be of service to other people. Again, especially when it's inconvenient, because that is what is going to give your life meaning. And the quality of your relationships are going to dictate the degree to which you feel connected. And that disconnection, that despair, that loneliness that is being provoked by our digital devices and our consumerism culture.

• 13:13Rich Roll?

  And our addiction to comfort, these things can all be overcome by engaging with discomfort, allowing yourself to be inconvenienced and showing up for the people that you care about and that care about you and making sure that they feel seen and heard. And then, how are you being of service to your community, to your local community, to the world at large, to the people that you care about? The more service oriented you approach your life, the more purpose, meaning and fulfillment you're going to experience. And service, of course, is orthogonal to self obsession. It's the self obsession that is driving all of the despair.

• 13:55Rich Roll?

  All the cultural messages are around prioritizing your self obsession. And I'm here to tell you, based on personal experience, that self obsession is the enemy. The cure is service, in which you're making your life about something other than yourself. The more you can do that, I promise you, the more fulfilled you will feel, the more internally satisfied you will feel. And then, over time, this lends itself to getting some clarity on purpose and meaning. These are big, kind of like fuzzy ephemeral words that I think are intimidating. Like, what's my purpose? Like, how do I get fulfillment?

• 14:38Rich Roll?

  They seem impossible and most people don't know what their purpose is. And I can say, "You need a mission. Go get on a mission and that will solve everything." But like, what are you supposed to do with that if you don't know what your mission is? And all I'm saying is, you don't have to worry about any of those things. It boils down to these little contrary actions. Contrary actions designed to step outside of yourself and your self obsession that are oriented around friends, family, work, faith, or...

• 15:07Rich Roll?

  Things that are more important and bigger than yourself. What is one thing you can do today on behalf of another person? What is one thing you can do today that is selfless instead of selfish? What is one thing today that you can do? It's going to make you a little bit uncomfortable. It might embarrass you or it might set you up for a failure. Can you say yes to that? If not, lower the volume on it a little bit until you can say yes. It's all about willingness. What are you willing to do? You can talk theoretically about these things. One day I'm going to do this or you know, next month I'm going to do this challenge. I don't care about that. None of that means shit. All that matters is what are you doing right now? What are you going to do today?

• 15:52Rich Roll?

  What are you going to be able to tell yourself? When no one's around and your head hits the pillow tonight? Did you follow through on any of these things that I am talking about here today? If so, you're going to feel a little bit better about yourself than you did the night prior. And that's what I want for you. These are the things we build upon that seem insignificant and small and meaningless and somewhat trivial. But I promise you, when you build upon them day after day after day, the trajectory of your life starts to shift. And then suddenly, you might stumble upon a purpose or you might find a mission, a mission that you never would

• 16:35Rich Roll?

  have even thought of otherwise, or you might start to develop a relationship with purpose that you didn't know was possible. But it is the daily tiny little things that you're doing every single day. So distill it down to the present, to these little bite sized chunks. Forget about the rest and just think about, how do you want to feel when your head hits the pillow tonight? Did you live up to a promise that you made to yourself or did you let yourself down? What was the one contrary action you took that you couldn't take yesterday that you did today? And allow yourself to feel good about that. And then tomorrow, we wake up and we build. What this is, is fulfillment maxing. It is the opposite of looks maxing.

• 17:20Rich Roll?

  Looks maxing is the pinnacle of self obsession. Fulfillment maxing requires focusing on the opposite of self obsession. The selfless acts that you take on behalf of others and the world at large that engender the self esteem that you've always been searching for in these surface level self gratification behaviors. And herein lies a great irony. By focusing on this, on fulfillment maxing, you're actually serving ultimate human performance optimization. So if this is the vernacular and the language that appeals to you, look at it this way, as the white space.

• 18:02Rich Roll?

  While everyone else is off looks maxing and enhancement maxing and engaging in all of these self obsessive, self gratifying, surface level behaviors, you're actually going where no one else is going, where there's no competition. By doubling down on fulfillment, on purpose, on what you have to do to get that long term satisfaction, your performance as a human being, or whatever it is that you're like ambitiously chasing, that becomes more accessible. So it's actually, you could call it a life hack, I suppose. And I think it's part and parcel with this overall life philosophy

• 18:45Rich Roll?

  that has served me well, which boils down to a phrase I like to repeat, which is, "The path of least resistance is actually volunteering for the most resistance." And this gets to the white space idea. So let me just explain it by dint of example. When I was a young swimmer, I was pretty good, but there were plenty of kids that were much more talented than me. And that is why I decided to focus on the 200 meter butterfly, because that is an event notoriously painful that nobody else wanted to participate in. And I realized, oh, that's the white space.

• 19:29Rich Roll?

  That's the place where there's the least amount of competition. And if I focus exclusively on that, that puts me in a better position to basically distinguish myself. And so in order to do that, I was volunteering for a heightened level of suffering, because that's a very difficult race to train for. But by doing that, I succeeded and was able to distinguish myself in that event. And that was a lesson that I learned early on that I've applied later in my life. I think, looking back, it's also why I decided to go into ultra endurance triathlon rather than Ironman. I realized like, oh, there's so many fewer competitors at the double Ironman distance

• 20:13Rich Roll?

  than there are in the Ironman distance. Maybe if I go over here, it gives me a greater chance of distinguishing myself, of trying to kind of access my inner excellence. And I was able to do that. Then, same thing with podcasting. I started this podcast back in 2012. That was a period of time in which nobody thought you could make a living doing this. And it certainly wasn't cool. If you were to decide you were going to start a podcast back then, you were opening yourself up to ridicule of basically people being dismissive of you, or making fun of you, or just not taking you seriously. But that was the white space back then. There was very little competition. There weren't very many people doing it back then.

• 20:58Rich Roll?

  And I had the foresight to see And to believe that it was going to grow into this bigger thing. And by jumping into it in that period of time in which there was close to no competition, I was able to distinguish myself early and develop a foothold and build an audience before it became so crowded and saturated. And I have benefited as a result of that. So the point that I'm making is that in terms of thinking about our relationship with discomfort and how that connects with our aspirations for ourself, it's valuable to contextualize your relationship with discomfort

• 21:40Rich Roll?

  in the context of resistance. Where is there a lot of resistance? And where there's a lot of resistance, there's going to be less competition, less participants. And generally, in my experience, when that white space matches up with something I'm curious about or feel a natural gravitation towards, I have developed a reflex to go in that direction. By welcoming that degree of heightened resistance into my life, I actually am setting myself up for a path of least resistance. Because it is there, where nobody else is, that you're going to be able to do your thing unfettered, to grow, to evolve, to change,

• 22:25Rich Roll?

  to fail, to learn, and to improve in a way that is setting you up to distinguish yourself.

• 22:39Rich Roll?

  Just to be clear, I'm not saying that we shouldn't engage in these self-optimization behaviors. Like, we all want to be better, and there are effective ways to behave in a way that's going to make us better. I'm just talking about when self-optimization becomes self-obsession. So these are two different things. What we don't want is a life that is oriented entirely around me, me, me. When we're just thinking about what we want and what we need, that comes at the cost of the things in life that are truly most important and meaningful. So, fine to optimize, fine to basically...

• 23:19Rich Roll?

  Be concerned about all the behaviors and decisions that are contributing to your wellbeing mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, et cetera. It's just the obsession part that you need to be aware of and be cautious of. Because as soon as you start making all of your decisions based upon what you want and what's important to you, you start to erode your capacity for empathy. And once you disconnect from empathy, then it becomes very difficult to have a happy life. You're not going to be able to connect with other humans. Like, there's a cascade of consequences to that. And I think making the choice to inconvenience yourself, to invest yourself in other human

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  beings, even when that causes incursions on your self-optimization routine, you have to be okay with that. Because these are the investments that basically pay off over the long term to give you what you're actually after. So many of these optimization protocols are on their face, fine, but if you think that they are going to deliver you fulfillment, happiness, and purpose, they're not. They might make you healthier, they might improve your mood and your cognition, et cetera. But the real juice, all of that is underneath.

• 24:45Rich Roll?

  And what you're doing on behalf of yourself isn't necessarily connected to those things. These things require you to get outside of yourself, to invest yourself in the larger pursuits of life, the more selfless and community and connection-oriented pursuits. The ultimate self-optimization is self-mastery. And self-mastery means developing the capacity to emotionally self-regulate, to basically make the best decisions. And engage in the behaviors that are going to move your life in the direction that you want it to move. And that means that you have to say no to a lot of stuff. You have to know how

• 25:27Rich Roll?

  to put the phone down. You have to know how to pick up a book and read it. You have to know how to commit to doing hard things and following through and being a responsible member of society. Self mastery means you are in charge of your universe, your body. Self mastery is essentially the discipline to say no to all of the things that are driving this despair, this loneliness, this sense of disaffection and the emotional disconnection that so many people are experiencing.

• 26:06Rich Roll?

  Self mastery says, no, we don't pick up the phone. We pick up the book. Self mastery says, no, I'm not going to sit on the couch and eat the hot pocket. I'm gonna get up and go outside and do that hard thing that I know is necessary to drive my life in the direction of my goal. Self mastery says, I cannot sit in my own self obsession. I need to go outside and be of service to somebody else. Self mastery says, relationships are important and I am going to invest in them, even when it's inconvenient. And self mastery says, family is central and asks us to ask

• 26:48Rich Roll?

  ourselves, how are we showing up for hours? And just in terms of how all of this is working for me right now, I mean, this is why I get up at four o'clock in the morning every day. This is the only time of the day that I have available to myself to focus on restoring my body and repairing it in the wake of this surgery, to get strong again, to get fit again. It's inconvenient. I don't want to do it at four o'clock in the morning. I would like to sleep in, or I have other things that I would like to be doing late at night that compromise my ability to wake up that early. But I make this decision every single day to show up for myself in this way. Another example, I'm in the middle of writing this book right now.

• 27:31Rich Roll?

  First of all, the only reason I'm writing this book is because it scares the shit out of me and because I didn't think that I could do it. It's so intimidating, uh, what I'm attempting to do right now. And that scariness was the impulse that, uh, told me that I needed to do it. It's inconvenient. I don't want to be doing this right now. I have a full-time job. My kids are home from school for the summer. There are lots of things that I would like to be doing right now, but I have committed to this book and I need to see it through and I'm engaged in this very uncomfortable process of grappling with my limitations as a writer.

• 28:12Rich Roll?

  But that again is the grist for growth and this is why I'm doing it. Here's another one. My parents are aging. My mother has dementia. She's in a memory care unit. My father has decided to join her and he needed help moving. So I flew to Washington DC and basically helped out for a handful of days at a moment in time that was not just inconvenient, but very disruptive to my life. It interfered with this book deadline and all these professional responsibilities and family responsibilities that I have. But this is what life is about. There was nothing more important than me showing up for my dad in that moment. And I look back on that and I'm so grateful that I had the awareness to make that decision, to make that choice. And

• 28:57Rich Roll?

  it might seem like an obvious one, but I think there's lots of moments in my life and maybe in yours where you knew what the right thing to do was, but there were just too many pressures and other things pulling on your, pulling on your time and your attention, responsibilities, et cetera, that made you decline to show up for those opportunities. And I just know that I want to look back on my life and know that for seminal moments like that, important things that I showed up to honor them. And one other aspect about self-mastery that I think is important to really reflect on is how are your actions, uh, counteracting whatever?

• 29:35Rich Roll?

  Negative inner monologue you're inhabiting. So what is the story you're telling yourself about who you are, what you're capable of, what you can and you can't do? And what is the relationship between your actions and your behavior with that monologue? And so every day, because I have a very robust negative inner monologue, I'm very focused on the actions that I'm taking that defy it. And the more that I take those actions, the more mute my inner monologue becomes. I don't think it's ever going to go away, but I like to think of it the way Elizabeth Gilbert talks about it in her book, Big Magic, where she just basically says, "Yeah, you can come on this road trip that I'm going on right now, but you're going to have to sit in the back.

• 30:18Rich Roll?

  You can't drive, you can't navigate. In fact, you can't even say a thing because I'm in control." I have this sense that people look at me and they think, "Well, you have your mission figured out. You feel like you're somebody who understands how to build a life with purpose and meaning and all of these things." But I promise you that I have weathered more than a few very confusing, very extended periods of my life. And I have some amazing vivid memories of being in a career that I hated, feeling like there was no way out, no possibility that I could ever figure out a different profession that suited me.

• 31:01Rich Roll?

  And that sense of being stuck, and when you feel stuck and you feel like your life doesn't have purpose and you're not really engaged in the work that you're doing and you feel like the work that you're performing doesn't have meaning, the only way to feel better about yourself is to take whatever money you're earning and spend it on something that you think is going to make you feel better, whether that's leasing a car that's just a little bit outside of what you can afford or, you know, I don't know, going to the clothing store and buying a piece of clothing that you might think might make you feel more comfortable in your own skin. Like I have lived that life, I've done that.

• 31:40Rich Roll?

  And I've reached my breaking point with it and I know the confusion of not knowing what to do next. And in my case, I remember making this decision to just honor my body with some movement and going out for a run, which is something I wasn't known for doing and coming back from running probably what was no more than a mile and, and feeling like good about myself and feeling better in my body and making a very conscious decision like I'm going to honor that. Like this is the one thing that actually makes me feel good. And even if it's inconvenient or I can't justify it, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  for myself. And that slowly, over time, turned into doing more and more things in the fitness oriented kind of world and led me into the world of ultra endurance. But in the very beginning, it was just like, I just want to feel a little bit better. I don't want to be so fat and feel so tired and lazy all the time. This is one thing I can control and I'm going to commit myself to doing it. And there were plenty of days when I didn't want to, but I knew that if I did it, I would feel better. I was living this mood follows action idea that I'd learned in the rooms of recovery and it started to pay off. I didn't have a goal. I

• 33:06Rich Roll?

  didn't have a concept that this was going to change my life. I was just making the simple decision that I was going to honor myself in this way. And just like, over time, one thing led to another and one thing led to another. But I could have never imagined in my wildest dreams that it would have laid this foundation to lead this entirely unimaginable life that I'm so privileged to lead today. So the point is, it starts with these very basic things, things you don't want to do. But once you do them, you feel better about yourself, better in your body, better emotionally, more connected to yourself, more capable of connecting with

• 33:43Rich Roll?

  other people. And with a improved outlook on possibility, which instills you with a sense of hopefulness that perhaps was absent prior. And also,

• 34:01Rich Roll?

  A sense of curiosity about what might be possible. And I think, once you start to trust your intuition and invest in that curiosity, that's when some magical things start to happen. And finally, for all the young people out there who are thinking, okay, boomer, not for nothing, I'm Gen X, I'm not a boomer. But that aside, I'm sympathetic and understand that some of what I'm saying might not land as intended, because I come from a generation that knows what it's like to not have phones and perhaps has a degree of appreciation for that in a way that is difficult for young people who've never not had these things in their life.

• 34:44Rich Roll?

  And to ask somebody, hey, put it down and go outside, when everybody else that they know is online constantly, is asking them to exile themselves voluntarily from their peer group. So doesn't that sound more like alienation and disconnection than connection? And I get that. I'm not saying you need to break up with your phone entirely, or that you need to develop a completely different relationship with the tools that are integral to how you live your life and how all your friends live your life. All I'm saying is that you need to build in and invest in analog experiences.

• 35:28Rich Roll?

  You need to learn how to put it down long enough to go outside and join a run group or take a ceramics class or go to a stand-up comedy club with your friends and do it with the phones in your pocket or the phones in those pouches, or whatever you need to do to experience IRL, a little bit more IRL, a little bit more eye contact, a little bit more conversation and a little bit less texting. I think there is a lack of emotional resilience in younger people, because they're so used to communicating via text, that real-life conversations become intimidating and things to avoid.

• 36:13Rich Roll?

  I've seen it myself, and I don't think that that bodes well for... Developing the emotional capacity to deal with the challenges that life is going to present you with. And I think, again, this is white space. While all of your friends are so acclimated around managing all of their conflicts through text, can you be the person who shows up in person to have an uncomfortable conversation with a friend in real life, face to face, making eye contact? And if you can develop that as a skill, or set that as a goal, and work towards it, that puts you in a position to really outpace your

• 36:54Rich Roll?

  peers in every regard. Because while everyone is so distracted, and so tethered to their device, it's never been easier to distinguish yourself in whatever it is that you're aspiring to do with your life, if you can carve out 10% less distraction and more focus. If you can do that, you're just way ahead of the game in a way that wasn't possible with my generation and the boomers that preceded me. Like, the bar is so low, everyone's so distracted. If you could just carve out like, the tiniest amount of distraction, like, like, a half an hour, a week, or a day, like, you're doing something no one else in your

• 37:36Rich Roll?

  friend group is doing. Imagine scaling that over time. Forecast a year later, five years later, 10 years later, as you develop this increased capacity for focused attention, as opposed to mindless distraction. That puts you in a rare air, my friend, in terms of trying to achieve whatever ambitions and goals you hold for yourself. Think about that as the discomfort that you're willing to engage with, if nothing else. In closing, your attention is all that you have. So, live your life accordingly. I think it's important to think about.

• 38:17Rich Roll?

  Our capacity for attention and to think even more deeply about where we direct it. Because where you place your attention is everything. It determines the quality of how you're experiencing life in the present moment. It determines your future self. And it also determines the relationship that you engage in with your past. Attention is everything. The more that you can cultivate it and direct it mindfully, the better your life is going to be. So I'll close with a few recommendations for those that are interested in cultivating a little bit of a healthier relationship with your attention.

• 38:59Rich Roll?

  And I would start with the books of Cal Newport. He's got three great books that I would recommend. Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and Slow Productivity. If you read nothing else, read those books. If you don't like reading or you don't want to read, you can check out the podcasts that I've done with Cal and I'll link them up below or in the show notes. But if you're really interested in self mastery, maybe check out The Last Dance. That is a master stroke on self mastery and what it takes to win at all costs. The obsessive commitment to self mastery. But meanwhile, maybe just practice placing your attention in healthier directions in

• 39:41Rich Roll?

  very simple, easy ways throughout your everyday life with these low lifts that lead to small habit changes. Another book I would recommend is James Clear's Atomic Habits. It's a master of that subject matter. And just buy yourself a little bit more time to respond to the situations of your life a little bit more mindfully so that you can respond. By placing your attention where it should properly go rather than react compulsively or impulsively and do the thing that you've always done. The goal here is to do something else, to take that contrary action and then build

• 40:23Rich Roll?

  upon it with the next right actions that are going to move your life in a better trajectory. And it all begins with where you place your attention. Do that and you put yourself on the path towards change and transformation. And my hope is that you develop a lifelong relationship with that path and your constant evolution and unfoldment. And my other hope is that I meet you along that path one day. So I hope this was helpful. If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe to this channel and I'm interested in how this landed for you. So leave your comments, your criticisms and your thoughts below and I'll see you next time.