Fitness Confidential

My buddy Vinnie Tortorich — ultra-cyclist, celebrity trainer, fellow podcast host and now author — joins the show for a record 3rd appearance to talk about the release of his new book Fitness Confidential*. Part memoir, part fitness primer and part comedy, this book is your beach read for July. Vinnie and I don't always see eye to eye on everything – particularly nutrition. And he's not everyone's cup of tea. But he's still my man — we've gone through a lot together and he has always been there for me. I love that Vinnie calls it like he sees it, doesn't pull punches and isn't afraid to call BS — particularly when it comes to the latest health and/or nutrition fad. If that appeals to you, then you'll love the book. It's pure Vinnie, through and through Writing a book is damn hard. But what's even harder is getting people to read it after you spent years of blood, sweat, tears and toil to get it right. I've been there. So the least I can do for my good friend is give him my microphone, let him tell you about the process first hand, and help him spread the word. I hope you enjoy the show! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down like, what am I actually going to make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build through this program, a balanced nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout. Welcome to episode 38 of the Rich Roll Podcast with Vinny Torterich.

• 1:22Rich Roll?

  What's up, health nuts, fitness freaks? This is Rich Roll, and welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast. Who am I? I am a plant-based ultra endurance athlete, triathlete, multi-sport athlete. I am an author. I'm the author of the bestselling book, Finding Ultra. I am a healthy lifestyle advocate, and I am a public speaker. I'm actually coming to you from Johnstown, PA. I was on a plane all day yesterday flying out of LA to central Pennsylvania. I'm speaking at the Vegetarian Summer Fest, and I'll tell you a little bit about that in a second. But what we do here, what do we do here?

• 2:05Rich Roll?

  My goal is to bring you the best and the brightest in health, fitness, nutrition, athletics, people pushing the boundaries of what is possible with the human body and the human spirit. Over the last couple of years, I've had the good fortune of meeting a lot of incredible people as I walk this plant-based path. This... Path of reinventing myself as a middle aged athlete and health advocate. And I started this podcast so that I could introduce to you guys all of these wonderful personalities and have long form conversations with them so that they have yet another platform

• 2:48Rich Roll?

  to share their knowledge and their information with you. The idea is to bring you this information to inspire you and educate you, but most of all to empower you to become your best self. Self, did I say self? Self? Self? We all have that dream deferred locked down deep inside of us. And if my book speaks to anything, or if I'm about anything, it's about trying to unlock and unleash that more authentic version of yourself and empower you to capture that dream and pursue it to become more of who you are, who you were meant to be in this

• 3:33Rich Roll?

  short life on planet earth, because life is short, man, and time is of the essence. So let's get going. Let's get right into it. Like I said, I'm in central Pennsylvania, beautiful. As I was flying in, I posted a picture on Instagram, quite lovely, very green, rolling hills. I wish I brought my bike, it's so nice. And I'm attending this event that I'm speaking at. It's called the Vegetarian Summer Fest. I'm going to be speaking, today's July 3rd. I'm speaking on July 4th. I'm sure nobody has plans, so you can all get in your car on July 4th and come see me speak in the afternoon in rural Pennsylvania. I'm also speaking on the 5th.

• 4:16Rich Roll?

  I'm doing a fitness Q and A panel with my buddy, John Pierre, who's a sort of celebrity fitness trainer, plant-based guy, awesome dude, who also has a book coming out soon.

• 4:28Rich Roll?

  Uh, which uh, brings me to this idea that I'm trying to, there's all kinds of crazy cool speakers at this event. So I'm running around, or I'm going to be running around chasing them, trying to get them to spare an hour to sit down with me for the podcast. So no promises yet, but hopefully I will nab a couple of cool interviews with some interesting people that I can be uploading very soon. Uh, John Pierre being one of them. I've been trying to track this guy down forever to try to get him on the, on the show. He's, he's got a great perspective and has trained a lot of interesting people and has been a plant-based athlete and trainer for, for, you know, I don't know.

• 5:08Rich Roll?

  Forever? A long time. Anyway, uh, I flew on an airplane all day yesterday. It's always, uh, always, always challenging for me.

• 5:19Rich Roll?

  Jet lag hits me hard, so couldn't sleep very well last night, up super early, uh, and thought I'd just get this, uh, latest podcast out. Who do we have on the show today? We have my buddy, Vinnie Tortorich. If you're a long time listener of the show, if you've been with us from the beginning, then you know, Vinnie. Vinnie is the host of, uh, the popular podcast, America's Angriest Trainer. He's a training buddy of mine. Uh, we get out on the bike quite often and he has been very instrumental in helping me prepare for my Ultraman races. And he's been on the show a couple of times. He's very entertaining. And, uh, he is the first person to be making a third appearance on the show.

• 6:01Rich Roll?

  Why are you having him on for a third time? This is only the 38th episode. Well, A, he's super entertaining and, uh, B, he's my buddy and he's a good guy to banter with. But most importantly, C, he has a book that just came out called Fitness Confidential. Uh, and I wanted to have him on the show so he could talk about his book. I know, uh, from kind of doing this over the last year. That writing a book is hard, man. It's really hard. And he was writing his book when I was writing mine. So he's been at, it's been a longer road for him than it has been for me.

• 6:40Rich Roll?

  And what's even harder than writing a book is getting people to read it or getting people to pay attention to what you're doing. He self publishes books, so it's even more challenging to be in that scenario to try to get people to pay attention because you don't have a publishing house behind you. Who's kind of doing some of the marketing and we're going to talk a little bit about that in this interview. So every little bit that I can do to help my friend spread the word about his book. I am right there for him and it's a worthy message. Vinny and I, you may know, we don't see eye to eye on everything. We have our varying perspectives on nutrition and, but you know what?

• 7:23Rich Roll?

  He's still my friend and I still want to see him do well. And I have to say that this book is extremely entertaining. It's a page turner. And if you know Vinny, he calls it like he sees it. He's a no BS guy and that's what you get in the book. Basically, he pulls the covers on the fitness industry, the weight loss industry. And basically sets the record straight from his perspective on what works, what doesn't. All layered in the context of his life story narrative, which is very entertaining. And also heartfelt, you know, he's a cancer survivor. He's gone through a lot. He's seen a lot. He's been in town for a long time. And he's done this kind of Hollywood celebrity trainer trip.

• 8:08Rich Roll?

  So the book reads a little bit like, I don't know, Valley of the Dolls or You'll Never Eat Lunch in This Town Again meets, meets, I don't know, The Skinny Rules. I don't know, some kind of health and fitness book. But it's a page turner. It's a lot of fun to read it. It's up on Amazon. In Kindle and paperback form and Vinnie's gonna come in and tell you all about it. So if you want to pick it up, which you should, what do you do? Well, you go to the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. Click that takes you to Amazon, pick up the book, pick up whatever else you're gonna get. Doesn't cost you a cent extra if you had just gone to Amazon directly,

• 8:49Rich Roll?

  but it throws a few pennies in our jar and is helping us pay the bills to keep this podcast going. I love doing the podcast. It takes up an extreme amount of my time and we do have some hard costs. And the Amazon banner is an extremely helpful in paying for quite a bit of the expenses of this podcast. So I just want to thank everyone out there who has taken the time to do it. It's been awesome and I love the fact that people are using it. And then tweeting, "Hey, I just bought something on Amazon. I used the banner ad." Super cool. And what else?

• 9:31Rich Roll?

  It is going to help cover the costs of hiring a producer who's gonna be coming on board to the show pretty soon. Basically, what I do is I record these interviews and I do, I do everything myself. And it takes me about, I don't know, five, four or five hours after I record an interview to post-produce it, get it up, upload it, do the blog post, blah, blah, blah. And it's just, it's, it's too much time, man. So I'm hiring a guy who's gonna start handling a little bit of that. And what does that mean for you? Well, hopefully it means that I'm going to be able to get more episodes up because it's gonna free my time up to just focus on the interview part of the podcast without having to worry about the other part. So that's good.

• 10:16Rich Roll?

  So look for more regularly uploaded episodes and hopefully more per week. I would love to get it to three a week. I know it's only been like one a week lately. I'm trying hard, believe me, we'll get there. What else? T-shirt contest. I made the announcement a couple of episodes ago. I was gonna be giving away a couple of t-shirts to people that posted pictures on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram of them. Either reading Finding Ultra or listening to the podcast, I got some really great images, super creative and fun, and I'm going to make the announcement very soon on the winners for that. So stay tuned. I have not forgotten about you. I've just been collecting the entries

• 11:01Rich Roll?

  and need to make this selection and we'll be figuring out that soon. As far as the Plant Power t-shirts are concerned, in about two weeks, we are going to have those available for sale for all the people out there who were like, where can I get that shirt? That shirt is awesome. If you haven't seen it, go to richroll.com. The Hillary Biscay episode, I believe I posted a picture of it also on my Instagram account at @richroll. Anyway, yeah, we're going to be having those available very soon. If you want to be the first to

• 11:39Rich Roll?

  get one, or you want to preorder one, we're going to be making that functionality available to you pretty soon. If you want to, if you want to be alerted as soon as that goes up, the best thing to do is to go to richroll.com and just subscribe to my newsletter by putting your email address in. We're going to send out an email blast as soon as we're going to put them up for preorder and it's going to be first come, first served. So just because we don't know what the demand is yet. So it's very possible we'll sell out quickly or out of certain sizes. So if you want to make sure that you get yours, subscribe, and when you subscribe, you also get like a seven recipe download for free. So not

• 12:24Rich Roll?

  a bad deal.

• 12:34Rich Roll?

  Let's just get right into it with Vinny. I'm going to go for a run. And while I do that, why don't you listen to Vinnie Tortorich and let him call it like he sees it. Enjoy.

• 13:06Rich Roll?

  So you find a time to take care of yourself?

• 13:09Rich Roll?

  No. So what's it been like?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Are we unlike yet?

• 13:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we're doing, we're going dude.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Oh, we're doing this?

• 13:15Rich Roll?

  Put the phone down.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Well, wait.

• 13:17Rich Roll?

  Come on.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  This is important.

• 13:18Rich Roll?

  This is unlike you.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  I know, one of my, look at me. You see what's going on here?

• 13:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're like, you won't even make eye contact with me. You're all up on the phone.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, wait, um, uh.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Uh, wait, hang on, hang on, why, do you see what I'm doing?

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  This is great.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  I can't do two things at once.

• 13:34Rich Roll?

  This is great pod.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, wait, wait, it's gonna be great pod in just a second.

• 13:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:42Rich Roll?

  So I got Vinnie in the house. We're gonna talk about his book, which just came out, Fitness Confidential. Uh, Vinnie, you're the first, uh. I've had one other person as a repeat guest on the show, but you're, this is your third time on the show.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  I mean, rare, like.

• 13:58Rich Roll?

  You're almost, you're almost co-host status.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Oh, Jesus Christ. I wouldn't mind being co-host status.

• 14:03Rich Roll?

  Controversial co-host status. What do you mean? You're banging out three of your own. You wanna do, you wanna be co-host on mine too?

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Why not? I'm loving this.

• 14:10Rich Roll?

  You know, full on, full-time radio guy?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, why not? You know, I, I could think of worse thing, worse, worst things to do. Um, I was just, you know, that, that's become my life over the weekend.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Since the book is out. You know, we just got our first three-star review from one of my super fans. And we have super fans on the show. This woman's lost like 80 pounds and.

• 14:34Rich Roll?

  She lost 80 pounds and she gave you only three stars?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Well, it was an accident because the tweet says, hey, I gave Vinnie five stars. And it was the only, the only three-star review, you know, all of the, the reviews have been four and five stars and.

• 14:46Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. It's early.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  I know.

• 14:48Rich Roll?

  It's early in the process.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 14:50Rich Roll?

  You wanna feel better, go read my one-star reviews.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no.

• 14:54Rich Roll?

  They're coming.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 14:56Rich Roll?

  They always do.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:58Rich Roll?

  But congratulations, man. It's huge.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  It's finally out. It's, it's out there burning gas.

• 15:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so, uh, when did you start writing it?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I was writing my book the same time that you were writing your book. When was that?

• 15:14Rich Roll?

  Couple of years ago. Well, let's see, I wrote it throughout 2011. I think I started it at the end of 2010.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:23Rich Roll?

  Um, early 2011 and yeah, you were working on it then. I know.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're at the same, you, you, you got a deal upfront. You did a, you put out a proposal or whatever, you know, you did a synopsis and put it out.

• 15:37Rich Roll?

  Right. We took.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  You got a book deal.

• 15:39Rich Roll?

  We took very, we took two different, very, uh, very different routes. I went the traditional route, which is you, you get a book agent and you write a proposal and the proposal gets submitted to publishing houses and a publishing house either decides to buy it or not, and then they own it and you write the book for them.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:57Rich Roll?

  And that was the way I did it. And you went the other route, which I'm really interested in hearing about your experience to date. Uh, the self-publishing route and I just checked, I know it just dropped and I've been seeing all the tweets and the retweets about how much people are loving the book. And, uh, I checked it out on Amazon the other day and it was at like 450 or something like that. I don't know what your, your best Amazon ranking has been so far, but that's pretty freaking good.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was about there. Now, the audience won't know what that means, right? So should we explain?

• 16:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So the way it works on sort of every author pays attention to their Amazon ranking. Amazon gives, uh, every book a number. One is the best. I think Paula Deen is number one.

• 16:44Rich Roll?

  Um, and, uh, it, it's a, there's an algorithm that calculates how well your book is selling and then it's broken down into categories. So you have your overall Amazon ranking and I think the highest, my, my book, I think it was under, it went under a hundred for like five minutes and then

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:01Rich Roll?

  it was kind of in the 500 range. It was around, and it was kind of in the hundreds for a while and then the 500s and it goes up and down. I mean, they, they change it every hour. So it just depends.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  It's like the stock market. It just goes up and down.

• 17:12Rich Roll?

  I know. So you gotta get the screen grabs when, uh, you get the good ranking. When you're at the top of your category or whatever, and your specific thing, you gotta get a screen grab of that. So you save it for posterity.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  I'll teach you how to do that.

• 17:26Rich Roll?

  Oh, yes, you do.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  I really don't.

• 17:28Rich Roll?

  Well, you know what your Amazon number is, so you care at least a little.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  I learned about it that morning, Dean, you know, my co-author, who's written several books and sold his books to movies and everything else. He said, no, listen, he goes, this stuff is going to drive you crazy. You do know.

• 17:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, or you'll you start checking it every hour and all that.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  I don't though, because I'm with clients. I don't have the opportunity to check.

• 17:49Rich Roll?

  It's much healthier that way.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  I I said to him, I said, what does it mean to have a high ranking? He said, well, he goes, look at it this way. You have nothing behind you. You know, your book wasn't pre-ordered. Your book doesn't have a big company behind it. You have nothing. So he said, if you get under 10,000, let's just call that a victory. I said, all right, so the number is below 10,000. He says, if by chance you ever get to 1,000, that's like you blew it out of the water, like you really killed it. I was like, okay, so 10,000, 1,000, got it. Well, by nine o'clock the first morning, it was at 9,000. And then it was at 7,000. And then now I'm watching.

• 18:33Rich Roll?

  Right, now you're you're in, you're hooked.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, every client, and you know, I was like, I get to the client.

• 18:38Rich Roll?

  Online poker or something.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And by that night, it was at 450. I was like, holy shit, the book is a hit. And then it was.

• 18:46Rich Roll?

  I know, I can attribute that to one action.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  What was that?

• 18:49Rich Roll?

  Howie Mandel tweeting it.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that that could have eased it.

• 18:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's what it is, is when there's a mad rush on it in a very compressed period of time. That will, you know, put a run on the number.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Is that what it is?

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's part of it.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  See how we went all the way.

• 19:04Rich Roll?

  But no, it's it's things, it's things like that that mean a lot, you know what I mean? And and things that can convert into sales and to be at, I mean, for a self-published author with a first book to be under 1,000 in the Kindle store, which means there's only, you know, 450 Kindle books that are selling better than yours at that moment is extraordinary. It's amazing, you know, it's like I you know, I had a huge publishing house behind me and all these marketing efforts and blah, blah, blah. Publicist and you know, I wasn't any better than that. So it's quite remarkable and it's the power of your podcast and it's developing your own audience that's loyal to you and does

• 19:46Rich Roll?

  the, you know, they're like your own foot soldiers and they're marketing it for you and they're enjoying it and they're getting something out of it and that's the future.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  It really is. You know, I read a book five years ago by Jeff Jarvis called What Would Google Do? And I really took that book to task. And that's kind of when I started doing this whole thing and started thinking about blogging because before I wrote anything or had a podcast, I became a blogger and I didn't even know what the term meant. I just knew I can write sentences and I knew where to throw a comma and when to put a period.

• 20:20Rich Roll?

  Well, maybe.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And yeah, sometimes. Let's not go crazy here. But the blog became popular and that, you know, led me into, you know, eventually the book and then the podcast. Dean was the one that kept reading a blog going, this blog needs to be a book. And that was the, you know, he came to me and said, we need to turn this into a book. Meanwhile, the blog got hacked and I never cared to unhack it or to do anything else. I just left it alone. And I made it go away. Which was interesting because after we wrote the book, the book that no one wanted us to write, because your agent, I went to your agent first, she got pissed at us.

• 21:01Rich Roll?

  She wasn't pissed. It just wasn't her cup of tea.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I could show you that. I could show you the, the letter. I mean, it was not like she, she wrote to Dean, she goes, you of all people should know better. What did you think you would do? It was like she was yelling at us.

• 21:17Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  She thought that, I think she had a problem in that first chapter when we were talking about jug rubs and one of those.

• 21:23Rich Roll?

  She's, you know, well, whatever. I mean, I can understand why it's not her thing.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  I can understand why you don't, you gotta work with this woman. So, yeah.

• 21:33Rich Roll?

  Well, yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  But she, um, But, you know, she was like, you know, you did the wrong thing. You shouldn't have written this book. You should have just written a proposal and, you know, you of all people should know. So that was the first time we got kind of, you know, told, you know.

• 21:48Rich Roll?

  Did you, so in other words, you were pursuing a traditional publishing route?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And then Danielle Schwetkov of, of something, something and something, big agency in New York, Levine Greenberg, took the book. They saw the book. She called me right away. We love this book. Oh, my God, this, this is going to be a runaway bestseller. We, you know, everyone's going to want this book. She goes out to the top 22 traditional big publishing companies, you know, the Simon and Schusters and the Harper and Collins and, you know, out of 22 companies, we got three companies who came back, which was a lot, you know, in that world, to say they wanted to do the book. But they all had a big but on it. They wanted me to cut the book in half because they saw it as two books.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  They said, you know, it's a great memoir and it's a great fitness book. We want you to first write the prescriptive version. Give us that. And then when people realize how good you are at this, then we'll put out your memoir and we'll make double money and we'll buy both books upfront. And Dean and I said, no.

• 22:55Rich Roll?

  There's, I mean, that sounds logical to me. That doesn't, that's not like a, an insane, that's not like insane feedback or anything.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Oh, God, no. That, that was, hey, we'll buy this book if you agree to cut it in half and start writing again. And we went, uh-uh, no, no, this is the book. I just want to put the truth out. I want people to hear the truth. This is not about, uh, this is not about, uh, some fad. It's not about being a vegan or a carnivore or it's not about any of that. This is the truth about fitness. This is how it works, according to everything I've learned over 30 years, including my college education in fitness. And there it is. You can love it. You can hate it. You, here it is.

• 23:36Rich Roll?

  It's the, it's the, I can tell you, for those of you out there, love Vinny or hate Vinny. Vinny's a no BS guy. He calls it like he sees it. And that's exactly what the book is. So if you enjoy his podcast and his sort of style and demeanor of delivery in terms of. You know, calling, uh, calling nonsense on what he sees out there. That's what the book is.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:58Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:59Rich Roll?

  I mean, why don't you tell us a little bit about what people are gonna find?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's funny because I've been reading my own reviews. That's the other thing you do is you start reading.

• 24:08Rich Roll?

  Please don't do that.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  You didn't read your own reviews?

• 24:11Rich Roll?

  Of course I did. I'm trying to spare you.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Well, my reviews have been great.

• 24:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know, but all right. Okay.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  I know.

• 24:18Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Somebody's gonna write one.

• 24:19Rich Roll?

  But the thing, here's the thing, and I've said this before on the podcast, you're not as good as a great reviews and you're certainly not as bad as a terrible reviews and the reviews, uh, quite often say a lot more about where that person is than about you or your writing.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely, but the one line in all the reviews so far is exactly what you just said. The book is no BS. It's just the facts. Here's what it is. Take what you want. Don't take what you want. But we, we spun it into a story, a story about my life, where I started out, how I ended up where I ended up in Beverly Hills, working with celebrities and what happened in between all of that. So, it's not just one book. It's two books. As a matter of fact, when, when it was trending really high on Saturday, on Saturday, it was like number 15 on memoirs being sold on cable.

• 25:08Rich Roll?

  Right. I saw that was the most impressive.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:10Rich Roll?

  Uh, cause that category is, you know, when, when you're in the memoir category, you're talking about memoirs of people like, you know, Hillary Clinton and like real people.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:20Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  So Dean wrote me a new.

• 25:22Rich Roll?

  And I saw that and I was like, wow, you're right up there with Tina Fey and, you know, I mean,

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:26Rich Roll?

  That, that was, I would have gotten a screen grab of that.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Margaret Thatcher and, uh, JFK.

• 25:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And you didn't get a screen grab.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 25:34Rich Roll?

  See, that's what you need.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  I don't have a screen grab.

• 25:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, you know what? I think I got one for you.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Dude, if you can send that to me. Now he's on his computer. We started this podcast with me on my thing and now he's over here. Please tell me you have that screen grab.

• 25:48Rich Roll?

  No, you know, I took a screen grab of it at 4:57, but I didn't do it. And then it was, uh, yeah, it says number 15 in bios and memoirs.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Right now? I'm 15?

• 26:00Rich Roll?

  No, this is, I took this on Saturday.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  But you didn't get me between Tina Fey, Margaret Thatcher.

• 26:05Rich Roll?

  I looked at, I clicked on bios and memoirs and looked at it, but I didn't get a screen grab of that. I should have.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  I'm not savvy enough to do that. That's where my savvy falls off the chart.

• 26:15Rich Roll?

  It's just, you know, a little memento. Get off your phone. We're doing the podcast right now.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  I got.

• 26:21Rich Roll?

  Come on.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  I'm here. I'm present.

• 26:23Rich Roll?

  All right. So, you know, there's my audience is slowly growing for this thing and it's possible that there's people on that are tuning in who didn't hear our first two chats. So why don't you break down a little bit about who you are and what you do?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Okay. My name.

• 26:39Rich Roll?

  Real quick, because a lot of people have already heard you.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I.

• 26:43Rich Roll?

  And they're either psyched or they're turning it off right now.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  I can almost hear people turning off their iPhones right now. Oh no, not this jerk again.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  I've been in the business for a lot of years.

• 26:56Rich Roll?

  The fitness training business.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  You know, somehow I ended up with a ton of celebrities. So I got that trainer of the stars thing around me that that halo that so few trainers get, which by the way, doesn't mean anything because their bodies don't work different than any other bodies. It's just that you get that, you know, you become that guy because you work with those people. So I've been working with celebrities for the best part of 20 years. I've been doing this for 30 years. My degree is in physical education from Tulane University and.

• 27:30Rich Roll?

  College football player.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  College football.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  Mountain bike racer turned ultra cyclist.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, that's me.

• 27:37Rich Roll?

  And cancer survivor. And cancer survivor.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  And cancer. You know more about me than I know about me.

• 27:44Rich Roll?

  Well, that's the nutshell bio.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  And that, by the way, is in the book, you know, the whole cancer story. Because I was literally getting ready for a race when we figured out I was almost dead. And that's a chapter in the book is that how can you be riding every weekend 200, 250 miles to get ready for a 500 mile race? And a doctor calls and says, literally while I was riding my bike, get off of your bike and take a cab home. And the reason why was because I had no platelets left in my blood. Had I fallen, I might've bled out and died.

• 28:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  And.

• 28:22Rich Roll?

  Your blood work's all good right now though, right?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Like brand new. I'm good. It was leukemia. It was eating me from the inside out. It's a silent killer. I needed chemo right away. So I got off of the bike on a Saturday. On a Monday, I was. Getting all of the stuff done at Cedars and everything was me. I had a pick line installed because you know, they have to, you know, give me all of this chemo. And literally, I was going to my clients on Monday and Tuesday with this pick line dangling out of my arm, saying, "You're not going to believe this, but I need to take a break for a while. You're not going to see me for a good while. I, I need to go get chemo and I'm going to be out of it." And

• 29:06Rich Roll?

  And then you get this celebrity reaction of, the self-involved celebrity reaction of, "What? What do you mean? Like, I don't have time for your chemo. You have to show up at my house."

• 29:16Speaker 01

  It really wasn't that, that bad. You know, you would think, but they were all kind of concerned and they all came to visit and they were all, it was really, it was kind of interesting. We had, what we, we ended up calling chemo parties because a lot of people would show up together and they would start working deals. It was like Hollywood meeting up while I was having chemo parties. It was this crazy thing. It was fun though.

• 29:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And how many years ago was that?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Let's see, 07.

• 29:47Rich Roll?

  Four, four, five, yeah.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. 07, I had cancer and 08, I was cleared. And that year, I had failed at the 508 the year before.

• 29:58Rich Roll?

  Right. We should clarify failing because you, you, this, the, the Furnace Creek 508 is a 508 mile ultra cycling race. You ride your bike 508 miles straight through without stopping. And despite my many attempts at trying to convince Vinnie that he should pace himself at this race that he's done several times, he explodes out of the gate and decides he's going to sprint the first 200 miles and hang on. That's your strategy?

• 30:27Speaker 01

  No, the strategy is, well, everyone's strategy is, like, if, if you're in the top runners, everyone wants to get to Trona first because Trona is right before, it's at the 170 mile mark and it's the only place you can get gas. And you don't want to be caught in a pack with all of everyone else trying to get gas. All of the, the crew vehicles getting gas. And So anyone who's a front runner doesn't want their crew to be caught in that mess. So we all go out pretty hard, harder than you should go out in an ultra to get that gas at Trona. So that everyone can refuel, but the cyclist goes ahead.

• 31:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, but what's the big deal? I mean, as long as your bottles are full, you could go for another, you know, hour and a half or whatever without needing your crew van.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  You're out in the desert and it's hot. It's hot, not as hot as you're going to be in about two weeks, but it's hot. And you want your guy to be right there. If you get a flat, you don't want to be sitting there while you're waiting for these people back in Trona. So everybody kind of, you know, the top guys try to race to Trona. And it's kind of a silly thing because it's not really that important. My thing is I raced the first 200 miles. I go all out and every time I've done it, I've gotten to that 200 mile mark in nine hours and 15 minutes, nine hours and 30 minutes. You know, it's always under 10 hours and um. I don't know why that's become a thing for me is to get there in under 10 hours.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  But as soon as you turn the corner on that 200 miles, you're now looking at town pass, which you will be going up the backside of.

• 32:00Rich Roll?

  Right, just for, yeah, I'm crewing at Badwater for Dean Karnaz's in two weeks. I've never, I've never experienced that race, so I'm intimidated and looking forward to being of service to him. But I guess it was 130, it was 130 degrees out at Furnace Creek this past weekend.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Hopefully you'll get what they call a cool year and I'm doing air quotes. It'll be 120.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  It's not lining up. I mean, it has been so hot here, ridiculous.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Well, when I walked in, you were just coming from a bike ride and you were still flush.

• 32:33Rich Roll?

  No, today, today it's not nearly as hot as it's been the last three days. It's been easily 110, 115.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've had some heat. I don't mind the heat. Do you mind the heat a lot?

• 32:45Rich Roll?

  I like it, I like it, but um. I'm not completely acclimated to it because it just kind of happened overnight.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:52Rich Roll?

  So we didn't, we didn't like lean into it. So in terms of training. I'm not really used to it yet and it's a little more humid. It's really kind of humid and clammy, which is unusual for here.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  That's crazy. But you know, look, if you're gonna ride in the heat, we both have a friend named Jonathan Toker who sells a fabulous product.

• 33:09Rich Roll?

  That's right.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  And let me do an ad for you.

• 33:12Rich Roll?

  All right. Are you officially slinging for?

• 33:16Speaker 01

  No, no, I don't, I don't know. He's not a sponsor, but I use his product.

• 33:19Rich Roll?

  So do I.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  The product is Salt Stick.

• 33:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Salt Stick.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And he tried to figure out something. Are you slinging for him at all?

• 33:24Rich Roll?

  Not officially, but he's a friend and a training partner.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  He's a good guy and he's got the best, the most superior product on the market when it comes to, we advertise this guy for free, at least I do.

• 33:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I do.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  The Salt Stick product, but look, go, go to, go to richroll.com. Do you have a click through button?

• 33:40Rich Roll?

  I do.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Go to richroll.com, go to Amazon, click through and you will, you will.

• 33:45Rich Roll?

  We'll first pick up Fitness Confidential for your Kindle and then pick up some Salt Stick, which is, it's essentially an electrolyte supplement.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:55Rich Roll?

  And it's pretty much better than any other one out there right now.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  I haven't found one to come close.

• 34:01Rich Roll?

  Jonathan is a scientist. He was at Amgen for years. He studied this stuff and, and his product is, you know, it's not candy like some of the other stuff out there.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  It really isn't. It's the real deal. By the way, Amgen, as you know, is the company that saved my life. I mean, it's a big cancer company. They make drugs, they make chemo drugs. They make Neupogen, the drug that, it's the opposite of EPO. It raises your white blood cells is what kept me alive while the chemo was killing me.

• 34:31Rich Roll?

  Right. And we told that story on another episode that we did together. We were out riding a couple of years ago.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we ran.

• 34:38Rich Roll?

  And we were out and you had just said to me, this is exactly where I was when I got the phone call from my doctor telling me that I had leukemia and telling me to get off my bike and call a cab. You had just told me that and then we see a guy up ahead. Wearing an Amgen kit, like I guess Amgen has its own

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:56Rich Roll?

  Cycling club or something like that. You see guys around in our area all the time wearing Amgen cycling kits. So you're like, oh, there's a guy from Amgen. You rode up to him. You were chatting and I hung behind and then I caught up to you a little bit further down the road and what did the guy say to you?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  He was the guy that figured out the drug that saved my life. And we met the guy, as you said, right where I was when I learned I got cancer.

• 35:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  As a matter of fact, I wasn't told right there. I was told to get off your bike and get a cab. Can you imagine getting a cab from where that is?

• 35:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, it's literally up in the Santa Monica Mountains in the middle of nowhere.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:34Rich Roll?

  There's no, no cab you would be able to, Uber is not picking you up there. No cabs will be able to find you.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  There's no way in hell.

• 35:41Rich Roll?

  I don't think there's cell service. I'm surprised you got cell service to receive a phone call up there.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  That's the only place you get cell service. We call it Cancer Alley now because that's where I learned I had cancer. You get cell service right there. And if you come down a little bit and go up those, you know, those little whoopie doos to go back.

• 35:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  To Mulholland, no cell service.

• 36:00Rich Roll?

  Right. There you go. So what do you infer from that?

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Maybe there is a God or maybe there is a spiritual something or.

• 36:07Rich Roll?

  There's something going on.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't go with all that stuff, but yeah, there's something out there. I mean, and to meet that guy that day right there.

• 36:15Rich Roll?

  And do you tell that story in the book?

• 36:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 36:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 36:18Rich Roll?

  Well, you gotta write another book. You gotta write another book.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  And put that in.

• 36:23Rich Roll?

  So let's talk a little bit more about the book. So you were writing it when I was writing my book. So this has been going on for a very long time and now it's finally out. Right now it's only out in Kindle, right?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  No, it's out in Kindle today. It's out in Kindle and you can get the paperback.

• 36:37Rich Roll?

  Paperback. So, so no hardcover, but paperback on Kindle. But, but so is today the first day that it was available on paperback?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  They.

• 36:45Rich Roll?

  Cause I thought it was.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was supposed to be released today. They released it sometime over the weekend. It just showed up.

• 36:51Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  So it was out there at some point. It got released early. I went through a company called Telemachus Press. And I guess they have some kind of algorithm they deal with as to how things load in and when it goes up and. But today is the official release date of the book.

• 37:08Rich Roll?

  Right. So let's talk about, I mean, you know, basically when I wrote mine, I turned in my manuscript and then there's all these other people that do all the other stuff, right? You know, they come up with, I mean, of course, I look at the cover images and have feedback and, you know, try to get the blurbs for the back cover and that's a whole thing that took months and months. But ultimately, like, I don't have decision-making power over any of that kind of stuff. And there's all these people that do that for a living that just do it. But you had to do all of that. You had to hire a photographer to shoot the cover and design, get somebody to design your cover and put it together and find a company that's gonna print it and make it. I know that getting, it seems like if you write a book, getting it configured for Kindle

• 37:52Rich Roll?

  is no big deal, but I know it's like, it's, that's not the case. Like, it's actually like a whole process, right? Like a complicated situation.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what we learned along the way. When Dean and I, because Dean has always wanted to do a self-published book, because like you, you know, he's like seven or eight books deep and-

• 38:11Rich Roll?

  Like me? I've only, I've written one book.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  He's an author and like you, he never self-published. He would always go through-

• 38:19Rich Roll?

  Right, okay.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  With all the seven or eight books, I don't know how many. Might have more than that because he's done children's books also. But, you know, he was like, "I've always wanted to do this process." And what we learned is, let's say someone's grandmother wants to write a book tomorrow. She can put it up on Amazon, she can get it on Kindle, but it's gonna look Mickey Mouse because it's not gonna have a professional cover. It might have a professional cover, it might not. But if you try to load it in for all the different type of electronic, you know, gadgets-

• 38:52Rich Roll?

  Formats, yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  It won't fit. It's gonna look Mickey Mouse. And what we learned was, in order to do that correctly, costs a lot of money. Like, a lot of money.

• 39:02Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, is yours up on iTunes also as an ebook?

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on iTunes.

• 39:07Rich Roll?

  And you did, and you did the audiobook too, right? You used my guy?

• 39:09Speaker 01

  We don't have an audiobook.

• 39:10Rich Roll?

  Oh, you didn't? I thought that you recorded it with my, with Zach.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, we decided that we were gonna do it if we, you know, if we, if the book sells well, we're gonna do it. Otherwise, we're not putting it out.

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  But you recorded it?

• 39:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:25Rich Roll?

  Oh, you didn't? Oh, okay.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  There's no recording on it yet. But I've been in touch with Zach, your guy, the guy that did your book.

• 39:31Rich Roll?

  Right. He's the guy who I did my audio book with.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, we're going with Zach and if we do it, and I'm not convinced yet that I should do it, but I know you want me to do it that way.

• 39:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you should.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Vinnie wants me to do it that way. Everyone wants me to do it that way, but who knows?

• 39:47Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, part of the, I mean, I read the, I read some of the comments on Amazon and some of the tweets, and they're like, it sounds exactly like, you know, when you read the book, it's exactly the way Vinnie is on the podcast, you know, in a positive way, right? So if you want to convey the tone, you want to convey the tone that you want people to, I mean, who else is gonna rant? Like you, in the way that you, you know?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  You should hear me read out loud. That's, that's the thing.

• 40:11Rich Roll?

  You're, I mean, everybody, nobody likes to listen to their own voice. Do you listen to your own podcast? I can't. There's no way.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I won't, I won't hear this.

• 40:19Rich Roll?

  I won't either, believe me. I'm gonna record it, I'll put it up, and that's it.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  You know, people ask me, it's like, have you ever, I listened to one when someone called me a racist. I went back, I went, racist? And I went back and found that podcast. And what I had said was, I would like to see more people of color, that color being particularly black, in triathlon and in marathons. And the comment I made was, the only time you see a black man in a marathon is the Kenyan that wins it, then you got a bunch of white people waddling in behind him. Yeah, that's a true statement. That is not-

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  I don't know if that's entirely true.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but how many blacks do you know in triathlons? So I looked it up.

• 40:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's not. And, and, you know, part of it is socio-economic. You know, it's the same reason that until, until recent years, there haven't been that many black swimmers. It costs money to, you know, teach kids how to swim and have them be on a swimming team.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Available to these people.

• 41:11Rich Roll?

  Of course, it should be.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  It might be me being somewhat Pollyanna, and I know it won't be half and half, black, white, next year. But after someone called me a racist for saying that, I looked it up. Do you realize that we still do not have one pro black triathlete in the United States?

• 41:28Rich Roll?

  Is that true?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. One, this one guy's trying to become the first, and he doesn't have a pro card yet.

• 41:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there should be. Well, David Goggins is still my hero.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  He's my hero, too.

• 41:39Rich Roll?

  The most ultimate, you know, endurance athlete ever, right?

• 41:42Speaker 01

  But he's one of one.

• 41:43Rich Roll?

  Right. And he's not a professional either.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 41:47Rich Roll?

  I mean, he's-

• 41:49Speaker 01

  He's as pro as you're gonna get.

• 41:50Rich Roll?

  I guess. I mean, I don't, I mean, how, what does that word even mean anymore? I don't know.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  It used to mean that you had a pro card.

• 41:55Rich Roll?

  A card, yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  In ultra sports, there's no pro card.

• 41:58Rich Roll?

  There's no such thing as that.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So David is about as big and as pro as you would, you would possibly find as far as an ultra athlete. But how many black ultra athletes have you met?

• 42:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not, not, uh.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  You'll be in the desert next week. Count them up. Use one finger. You might be able to count them on one finger.

• 42:16Rich Roll?

  Well, maybe they're just less, and maybe they're just less insane.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You might have a point. Yeah, you might have a point. But we were talking about the process of doing a book.

• 42:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  And we did that thing I do on my show. You're doing my show now where you go off and we go off in 20, or am I going off?

• 42:35Rich Roll?

  I'm not doing anything. I'm just going with the flow. The good thing about having you on the show is it requires zero preparation.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:41Rich Roll?

  I'm like, come on. I literally texted you last night. I was like, hey, let's do a podcast. You know, your book's, your book's out and I'm leaving town. It's gotta be tomorrow. And I just got off my bike and took a shower and came in here and really didn't.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  No prep?

• 42:55Rich Roll?

  No, I don't have to. Well, I mean, it's, I know you.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  It's me. What are you gonna prep for me?

• 42:59Rich Roll?

  Well, and you have your own show. You know how to do a podcast. So the book, but let's talk about the book.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Um, well, you know, we did that. You know, we, we spent the money to get it done for all of, you know, the different, you know, Kindle and iBook. And you name them. You know them better than me. So you could get it any which way that way. We also have a paperback. We decided not to go with the hardcover because that's another whole cost. And who cares? The words are the words. So we, we did that, but that had to be formatted a different way. And you're right, we had to go in and shoot the cover. And you don't know this about me, but I hate having my picture taken. And when the guy goes, okay, just a couple more shouts. I went, ah! And I did that. And that became the cover of the book.

• 43:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I love the cover. It's great.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Me screaming because it was over with.

• 43:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it fits your personality perfectly.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it looked interesting and, uh, you know, that's the cover.

• 43:57Rich Roll?

  And now we're into the marketing phase.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Which is crazy.

• 44:01Rich Roll?

  And believe me, like, I thought when I was done, I was like, ah, I can, I can breathe now. Like now I can get back on my bike and, you know, get some fresh air and, you know, kind of enjoy. Just the idea that you know, you wrote a book and feel proud of it and it's out there now. And I completely underestimated how much work it was. I mean, it's sort of like you, you spent the, all these years writing this book and, and uh, you know, of course you want people to read it and you gotta like, you know, carry that mantle, which means you've got to be like a pretty shameless in your, you know,

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:34Rich Roll?

  promotional efforts and you walk this fine line because it's almost embarrassing, you know, to, you know, and I've seen you retweeting all that kind of stuff. And it's like, you know, it's sort of like, ah, after a while, but you have to, you have to do it. And for me, it became like, you know, sort of trying to get the word out. And I just said yes to everything, like anybody that contacted me and said, hey, can I, will you, will you, can you, can I interview you for my blog, you know? I just said yes, I didn't even, you know? And I just was doing that all the time. I was like, whatever I can do to get the book out, I did all this work, you know? I just want people to see it. And it became very overwhelming and, and you have to make sure that you maintain your equilibrium.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  That's where, you know, it's just the first weekend and Serena and I had zero life. It was just me constantly doing this and on the computer and, you know, in between clients. I mean, as soon as I came down, you know, we did a 15 mile hike. As soon as I came down, you know, it was right back on this, you know, this meaning uh,

• 45:43Rich Roll?

  The phone.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  the iPhone. It's, it just becomes overwhelming and you can't not do it.

• 45:50Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  You know?

• 45:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  You've spent all the time on the book.

• 45:52Rich Roll?

  It becomes your job. It really does.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Rich Roll?

  You know, and the wild thing is, is that, you know, three years ago, you and I are out riding every day.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:00Rich Roll?

  Just you're training for 508, I'm training for Ultraman. That's all we were focused on. That's all we were talking about. And now here we are doing podcasts and talking about books and not writing as much.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Can't you just see yourself being out there just doing what we were doing three years ago again? I mean, wouldn't that be great?

• 46:19Rich Roll?

  I could, well, the, you know, sort of uh, you know, the, the sort of um, you know, my life has gotten really big and that's, I'm very grateful for that. I have a lot of opportunities. I've got a, you know, I've got four kids. Um, I've got a lot of responsibility.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:36Rich Roll?

  And it's all awesome stuff that I've worked hard for and I appreciate very much. And wouldn't trade for anything, but the sort of fantasy that you that I have from time to time is like, if I if I just lived in like a hut, you know, somewhere like Ted Kaczynski style and just had my bike and just would train all day.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  My nephew and I, it's funny you should bring up Kaczynski because my nephew and I talk about being Ted Kaczynski all the time. Minus the bombs, by the way, just moving out into Montana.

• 47:08Rich Roll?

  Just like being Walt Whitman, yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think most guys dream that, but most guys won't admit it.

• 47:15Rich Roll?

  I don't know. I think a lot of guys dream about, you know, if I could just, you know, drive a fancy car and play golf and belong to the.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Do you really think most guys really, I think, don't you think, let me ask.

• 47:25Rich Roll?

  I don't know. I don't know what other guys think.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Well, let's talk about that. That's an interesting subject. Your life is on the upswing right now. You know, you got, you have a lot of good things happening. You have the opportunity to make a lot of money. When you make a lot of money or if you have a lot of money, do you go and join a country club? I don't see Rich Roll.

• 47:43Rich Roll?

  No.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  At a country club playing golf.

• 47:45Rich Roll?

  No.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  I don't see me at a country club playing golf. I mean, it's just not what we do.

• 47:51Rich Roll?

  No, not at all. I mean, I don't think that I would change, I wouldn't change anything that I'm doing already. You know, I would just, I would just keep doing what I'm doing now. And I think that's a good arbiter of whether you're happy in life or on the right trajectory for you. Like, I don't feel the need to go on vacation because I don't need a break from my life because I enjoy what I do when I wake up every day. And there are, some days are better than others and it's been very hard, you know? It's been a very, very challenging last couple of years.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  I mean, you've taken on more, right?

• 48:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm not like, you know, by the way, like, it's not like I'm making all kinds of money. Like, I'm trying to figure out how to support my family doing this so I don't have to go back and be a lawyer. And I can't say that I haven't figured out yet. I've got some ideas about that. But it's still a struggle and I'm trying to hold on to this idea of how to continue to.

• 48:42Rich Roll?

  You know, basically be an ambassador for a healthy message and still be responsible to my family.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  That that's the balance. You know, that and that's what we're always trying to figure out because, you know, Serena went from, you know, when she was at the top of her game acting, she, you know, work was work and she made a lot of money and she didn't have to, you know, work all year long. But now you're at 51 years old. We're all working. I mean, we're working harder than we've ever worked.

• 49:09Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah. I work way harder now than I ever did.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:12Rich Roll?

  As a lawyer. Work starts when I wake up and it, you know, and sometimes I don't go to bed until three or four in the morning.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  It just never ends.

• 49:19Rich Roll?

  And then I'm like, what did I even do? I don't even know.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  That's the crazy. It's the crazy thing. I mean, sometimes I'll look around and go, okay, I'm sitting at this computer. We're on hour number four. I'll just stop, walk away, go to the gym and get on a roar or get on a, you know, the stair climber I love, or sometimes I'll just stay in my office, put on some chammies and just get on the bike and just spend for an hour. Otherwise you do nothing. You do nothing physical. I'm so ready for this to be over with, to get back to what we were doing three years ago.

• 49:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  You have no idea.

• 49:55Rich Roll?

  But the thing, the thing that I realized, just, you know, because I'm fast forward a year, because I'm a year further down this road than than you are. The thing that you realize is that that idea that it's going to be over and you're going to get back to your life, that's a, that's a fallacy.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Oh, boy. Do you think?

• 50:14Rich Roll?

  There is no endpoint and it's not going to be over. So it's about trying to find a way to incorporate balance into your life now.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:21Rich Roll?

  You know, because it's, it's, it's going to be with you and it's just going to continue to build. So finding a way to attend to what you need to attend to, to continue to put the word out and, you know. Build on what you've created, but also take care of yourself. And you know, I definitely had times where I lost sight of that because I was like, well, it'll be over soon. And I've, I have this precious moment of time and I really need to capitalize on it because it will pass. And that was the, that's what I, that was what my mantra that I kept. And so it's like, it's okay if I'm not doing all this other stuff or taking care of myself because it's, it's, this is fleeting. And, uh, you know, it's a year later and I'm still kind of doing what I was doing last year at this time.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  Are you still going, going out and doing book stuff and doing all that?

• 51:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm leaving tomorrow. I'm going to, I'm going to Pittsburgh tomorrow to, I'm doing a lot of speaking. So I go to like, this summer and the fall, there's a lot of veg fests. So I go to those and I give a talk and I sign books and all that kind of thing. And then, you know, all different, different other kind of speaking engagements are coming up. So, so that kind of road tour continues.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  You know, that's funny. You should bring that up. I, I just agreed to two speaking engagements, you know, prior to the book, based on the podcast, because the podcast became its own thing in the past year.

• 51:40Rich Roll?

  Right. And for those who don't know, America's Angrier Trainer.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:44Rich Roll?

  On iTunes.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  And it doesn't mean I'm angry, folks. I'm upset because your good intentions have been stolen. And get the book. You'll see it in there. Go listen to the podcast. Um, but the podcast has taken on its own life. And I'm, I just agreed to a speaking engagement in Amsterdam next year.

• 52:01Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like.

• 52:03Rich Roll?

  Because of the podcast or what?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Because of the podcast.

• 52:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Some guy from England has this big company and he wants me to go do a motivational speech.

• 52:11Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's great, man.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  To his people, you know, they do a thing once a year and they're paying for me to go to Amsterdam and they're paying me to do the, we need to talk about it off the air. Do you have some kind of set fee or something?

• 52:21Rich Roll?

  Uh, we'll talk about that after the air. No, look, I've, I've done a lot of stuff for free, you know?

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:27Rich Roll?

  Um, but we'll, yeah, we can talk off air about that. But that's great, man. And I can tell you this, like, um, when I do these speaking gigs and I meet people, they're like, I would say nine out of 10 people, or maybe seven out of 10 people are like, ah, the podcast, the podcast, the podcast. I mean, and it's like, wow, like I didn't, you know, you don't realize that.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  You forget about the reach.

• 52:46Rich Roll?

  It's, it's impactful, man. So.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:49Rich Roll?

  It's cool. You gotta keep doing it.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  But that means you're making a difference. I mean, think about it. We're, we're sitting here in a garage, making a difference.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  You know, that's kind of a crazy thing.

• 53:00Rich Roll?

  Well, it sounds self-aggrandizing to say it that way.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  No, but it is, but I mean, people, look, not everyone has your knowledge and they listen to you and now they know and they can go with that. That's a real thing.

• 53:14Rich Roll?

  I hope so. You know, I mean, my, my thing is, you know, I've been blessed. I'm grateful for this experience that I've had over the last couple of years and I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of cool people and the podcast is a platform for me to bring those people on and share those people's knowledge with everybody else out there because I've learned from these people and everybody else should too, you know, and it's not about this is my way or the highway. It's like, hey, here's a perspective that's worth listening to, agree or disagree, you know, but it's valuable enough to spend a couple of hours on a podcast talking about it.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  That's all you can do.

• 53:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  You know, and that's what we try to do too.

• 53:54Rich Roll?

  I mean, we could sit here and, you know, we talk about this all the time. I can argue about being a plant-based athlete and you can talk no sugar, no grains and we can go around that merry-go-round until we're blue in the face, you know, and you're going to still think the way that you think and I'm going to think the way that I think. And there's a lot of, there's, we disagree on a couple fundamental things, but there's also a lot of truth and a lot of what you're saying that I agree with completely. So, you know, we can be friends and there's all this kind of internet angst about like pitting people against each other and creating all these sort of like...

• 54:26Speaker 01

  Well, they've tried to pit you and me against each other.

• 54:27Rich Roll?

  Oh, of course.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  And that...

• 54:28Rich Roll?

  But we go way back. That's never gonna hap... I mean, we're gonna, we're friends.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Remember Ben, we did Ben Greenfield, we did a three-way...

• 54:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, the Spreakast with Ben, yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was supposed to be us duking it out.

• 54:41Rich Roll?

  Well, Ben, well, Ben was like, hey, let's all do a Spreakast. We'll do a nutrition Spreakast. I said, great, cool. And then, and then it was like, oh, they're gonna have a big knock-down drag-out. And I was like, what?

• 54:51Speaker 01

  I didn't know. And I told Serena, right before I went on air, I went, I'm not gonna hammer Rich. Rich is not gonna hammer me. So this is gonna be a boring thing. But I think some good came out of the whole thing because it was three guys, three different opinions. They're all out there and people can hear them all at the same time. It had to be a good thing, right? I mean...

• 55:10Rich Roll?

  No, I think it is. And for those of you who missed it, uh, it's archived and I have it embedded on my site. So I'll put a link up in the show notes to that. So you can go check it out. I think we talked for like an hour, the three of us. We took questions and yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was a good thing.

• 55:26Rich Roll?

  So, all right, so Amsterdam, that's cool.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  I'm looking forward to it. And now there's some talk to go do something at a company in New York. New York.

• 55:34Rich Roll?

  New York?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  New York. That's the way the woman who called me.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Tara, Tara. I couldn't figure out if her name was Tara, Tara. But we were talking about that. And there's a few other things coming up. And it's all because of the podcast.

• 55:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, it's, you know, funny thing happened the other day. Brett Blankner, Zen Triathlon, you know, the host of the Zen in the Art of Triathlon Podcast, who I introduced you to, by the way, when you were starting your podcast, I was like, oh, you should talk to Brett. He's been doing it forever. He probably has some tips and guidelines that might help you. And that was long before I started mine.

• 56:09Rich Roll?

  He texted me the other day. He's like, hey, I'm coming to L. I'm gonna be in LA, you know, next week to do Vinnie's podcast, you know, and I was like, I was wondering if I could come by and say hi. I was like, I was like, what? You're gonna, you're coming here. Yeah, you're coming here specifically to do Vinnie's and like, you're letting me like, he's over the moon to meet you. I think he's like, you're like a rock star. You know, he's so excited.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  His wife is cute, too. Have you seen his wife?

• 56:34Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, I've done. I've been at their house in Texas. We did. I did. He did. I was a guest coach at two of his training camps that he did.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 56:43Rich Roll?

  Over the years. Yeah, he's a mensch. I mean, he's a boy scout, super nice guy. And he's been doing his podcast for years and years.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  He was like one of the first guys.

• 56:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Like early adopter. And he's stuck with it, you know, there's been a couple other triathlon related podcasts over the years, but they've come and gone. I mean, the only other ones are I am talk, I think. And then Bob Babbitt does competitor radio. There's probably a couple others out there.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I'm doing something coming up. Um, you know, um, Prezak, Tony Prezak.

• 57:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. And you're doing Endurance Planet. Yeah, I saw her tweet. She really enjoyed the book.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So I did her. I did that endurance, endurance planet podcast when my book came out. So I interviewed, I did an interview with her, too.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Super nice girl.

• 57:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it'll be great. She's a great triathlete, too.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I want to start listening to that. It sounds like a pretty good podcast. I haven't had a chance to listen to it.

• 57:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they do. Just they just interview endurance athletes and all different kinds of people.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  You had Mac on recently, right?

• 57:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, I don't know, two months ago or something, maybe?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  I haven't heard that one yet.

• 57:45Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's classic. You gotta listen to that one.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  Everyone keeps saying, have you heard the Mac one? It's like, nah, I gotta go back. I missed it. Because when you miss one, you don't go back. You go forward.

• 57:53Rich Roll?

  Right. No, that's one worth checking out. That was a good, that was a good, that was a good timeline. Definitely my, my, my, that's the most downloaded one.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  That one?

• 58:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for obvious reasons.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  He just got a book, but he's, he's not, he's out of his country right now, right? He's...

• 58:10Rich Roll?

  He's always on the road. I mean, he's traveling. I think he's been, oh, I think he's in Sydney now. But he was in Malaysia, I think.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  No, I think he's still in Malaysia because...

• 58:20Rich Roll?

  I think he's back now. I think I saw a tweet yesterday or today that he was in Sydney.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Okay, I just sent the book to his people. He's got people. Unlike you and me, he's got people.

• 58:29Rich Roll?

  Dude, just, all right, we can talk about that off air. I can get it to him directly, easily. Yeah.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:35Rich Roll?

  But his guy Scott Fair, Scott Fairchild, do you see him?

• 58:37Speaker 01

  That was a guy, yeah.

• 58:38Rich Roll?

  Okay, yeah, he'll get it.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  So can you let him know that Scott, you know, has, you know, fitness potential and, you know?

• 58:47Rich Roll?

  No, no problem. So, so where's this all heading, Vinnie? What are you doing here?

• 58:52Speaker 01

  I have no idea. You said come in, so here I am.

• 58:56Rich Roll?

  No, but I mean, like, where, like, the book, like, where's, what's the, like, what's the plan?

• 59:01Speaker 01

  What's the long game?

• 59:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Interesting, because I don't know. I don't...

• 59:06Rich Roll?

  That's a good place to be.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  You know, Dean is already talking about another book. As a matter of fact, Danielle Schwedkov, who I mentioned earlier, the agent who was behind this book, she came up with a book that I should do based on this book. So we're talking about that. I'll probably do the same thing I did this time. I'll write the whole book, and you can either love it or hate it. You know, we'll see. You know, that's, another book is actually in the works. We're talking about it. Are you writing yet? Are you back?

• 59:38Rich Roll?

  I'm working on a, I'm working on the second one.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Are you liking it?

• 59:42Rich Roll?

  Well, I'm just, I mean, I don't have like a book deal for the second one, but I'm working on ideas for what I want it to be. So.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, Daniel, of all people, my agent who had the book taken away from her came up with the idea. And I didn't know if Dean wanted to work on it. I didn't know if I was going to do it myself this time. You know, I, I just don't know yet.

• 1:00:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  So we'll see. And I'm definitely going to write again.

• 1:00:06Rich Roll?

  Good. That's good. So, all right. So we've been talking about all this book stuff and all the people tuning in are like health and fitness people. They're not, they're not book writers. Maybe they're bored. So let's talk about, I want to talk about what's in the book a little bit, like, you know, give me a few morsels of some of the no BS kind of truth that you lay out.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  The first chapter actually goes into, you ever read, when you read self-help, like your book did, I love the way your book opened. You know, you were on that race, you know, and you know, you get right into, holy shit. Well, you know, you were ready to just camp out, you know, just get out of this race because something bad happened. And your book opens like a Bond movie, you know, you're in the middle of it. And then you go back and tell us the story. And I learned things about you that I didn't know. You know, I, I learned about that, your, your first wife. You had no idea. I mean, to be able to write those words were amazing to, you know, but my book opens in a different way.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Whenever you're, you're being held up as an expert, so to speak, on a subject, or if you're going to write a book, you're calling yourself basically an expert on something. Every one of these people always do it the same way. They spend the first chapter explaining who they are, or at least a preface, you know, my name is Dr. So-and-so, I got a PhD from so-and-so, and I did this with da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And you have to sit there and read that crappy piece of material. So you can go, okay, this guy is the dude.

• 1:01:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  You know, I hate those chapters. I hate those prefaces. I hate reading those. So the whole time we were writing the book, we didn't have a first chapter. And I, I was dreading because, you know, people think that I sat there and talked to Dean and Dean wrote a book. We actually sat there together and wrote a book. And you know, he would write and I would write and we would come together and go, "Okay," and then, you know, I would write and he would write and, "No, that's not good and that's not good." We were both dreading that first chapter where we would have to explain to people why you should be listening to me. And we didn't know how to do it. So, one day, Dean said, "You know, that chapter 12 you wrote, we can make that chapter one."

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  And I went, "Yeah, but how do..." He goes, "It explains it in the chapter." You're, you know, the first chapter opens up with me in a Hollywood meeting. I was down at Gallin Morrie. I don't mention that in the book, but I'll mention it here. And this is back when Sandy Gallin was like the biggest, you know, you know.

• 1:02:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know who he is. Why don't you tell people who he is though for?

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Sandy Gallin was a manager. He had Gallin Morrie and he had Sand Dollar with Dolly Parton. And it was, it was probably the biggest firm of its kind. It was a management firm of big talent. And back in the day, meaning the early 90s, they had Michael Jackson, they had Dolly Parton, they had Roseanne Barr had the biggest sitcom on the air. They had the biggest talents in the world. I think they had Andrew Dice Clay. They, they had some of the biggest people. Kennethson, I think.

• 1:03:11Rich Roll?

  It's like in the 80s.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they were huge. And they were getting ready to, you know, one of their big stars, one of their up and comers was getting ready to do a sitcom. If you remember in the early 90s, there was like what, 40 some odd sitcoms on the air?

• 1:03:27Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  And these things were big money. And, I mean, a lot, I mean, people became almost billionaires off of sitcoms.

• 1:03:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, if you do a sitcom and it, it lasts for more than 100 episodes, it goes into syndication and, and, and essentially it just starts printing money. And you have an annuity for the rest of your life.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  You never have to work again. Like, to give an example, something like Everybody Loves Raymond. Those guys are worth-

• 1:03:53Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's huge.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, they get-

• 1:03:55Rich Roll?

  Phil Rosenthal, who created that show, or co-created it, I mean, lives like a king.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also Raymond, who's a co-creator on it, lives pretty- Even the guy I trained, um, uh, you know, the other guy, the big tall guy, my, my client, I can't think of his name.

• 1:04:11Rich Roll?

  Brad Garrett.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Brad Garrett is living like a king and he didn't own a part of the show. He was just a paid actor on the show. These people.

• 1:04:19Rich Roll?

  Because it went into syndication.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they did 10 years of.

• 1:04:23Rich Roll?

  That was a very different era in television. Now, you know, this sort of market share that you need to stay on the air is such a fraction of what it used to be when it was just, I mean, the audiences that these sitcoms got in the 80s and the 90s before there were, you know, 2,000 channels were huge. So the ad, the ad money generated by them was just astronomical.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  So that's what we were up against. You know, they had a problem and they were looking at me to solve it. So I'm sitting in a room, like I got called in, I don't even know, I got there because a friend of a friend suggested this guy knows how to take weight off of someone really fast. I became overnight the quick weight loss guy in Hollywood. And I was dressed like you see me here. Okay.

• 1:05:09Rich Roll?

  T-shirt turned inside out. It just looks like it's turned inside out.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  So I got a crappy torn t-shirt on, I got shorts, I'm in flip flops today, I have tennis shoes, I think I have flip flops on that day. I go into Sandy Gallin's building, they ushered me into a meeting. It was one of those long tables, you know, a big oval table in a conference room, and Sandy Gallin sitting at the head of the table in a biony suit, and this guy from Disney and that guy from da, da, da. It's a room full of suits and there are people around the suits. And I'm sitting there in t-shirt, shorts and flip flops, trying to figure out why I'm there. And they're all looking at me. And then one of the guys, I think it was the showrunner from the show, he goes, so we hear that you're the, you're

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  the go to guy to get weight off of people. And I went, all right, if you say so, I'm that guy. All right. And he goes, can you take 30 pounds off of someone? And I said, well, that depends. And when I said that depends, the whole room went, oh shit, we have a problem. And Sandy Gallin says, depends on what? I said, depends on if the person has 30 pounds to lose. And they all started talking amongst themselves. It was like, it was the most surreal day of my life.

• 1:06:29Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  And then finally, someone spoke up, an attorney spoke up and said, well, we think so. I said, okay, if he or she has 30 pounds to lose. I can do that. That's what I do. And they said, good, you have the job. You have five weeks to do it or six weeks to do it. And I went, wait a minute. No, no, you don't do this. I mean, you guys understand that's not, you know, it's dangerous. You know, 30 pounds that fast. I mean, is it a man?

• 1:06:55Rich Roll?

  It sounds like a weird scene out of like a Coen Brothers movie or something.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  It was kinda like that. And they were like, I was like, who is this person? This person shrouded in secrecy and the whole thing. And I'm, I'm talking and starting to sweat because I'm realizing, and while I'm doing that, Sandy Galen is staring at me as only he could. And he takes a piece of paper and he writes something on the paper. And he slips it to his assistant who slips it to me. And I open it up and it says $10,000, six weeks. And I looked at it and went, okay, I'm your guy. I'm your guy. You know, I became a money whore.

• 1:07:31Rich Roll?

  You sold out, just like that. How long had you been in town? How old were you?

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I was early 30s. I'd been in town for like a year. My, my business had just started, you know, because my business was huge in New Orleans. But when I got here, I didn't know anyone. My business had just started cropping up. You know, I, I was working with a few playmates over at Playboy, you know, because they need to keep them in shape because they put them on tour. And I was getting a check from them. So somehow the word got out that I can work with celebrities and I can get them to lose weight. And there I was. And that started the whole thing. And I took not only 30 pounds off of the woman, but they wanted me to take another portion of weight off of her and wrote me another check before they actually, they held the sitcom while I went back and worked with her.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  And that's when my career kinda took off. You know, my name was on The Tonight Show. My name was on Arsenio Hall back in the day. You know, all the nighttime guys, she was going on all the shows. This is the guy. This is the man. And my career just took off right there. And that, that was the beginning of it.

• 1:08:37Rich Roll?

  Well, and so kind of looking at that from the perspective of the, you know, the sellout, like, well, yeah, I'll take 30 pounds off her. I don't, I don't care if she has 30 pounds to lose or not. I mean, how is that?

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  You know, when I contrast that with your kind of no BS approach to how you do things now. I mean, what is the evolution of that perspective?

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Well, you know, what happens is when you get to the last chapter of the book, I go back to that story and talk about my colossal failure with this actress because I talk about that. It's clear in the book. I felt like a failure because I didn't teach her anything. I went for the money. You know, I didn't let that go in the book. I didn't just tell that story so that people can go, oh, this guy's a Hollywood guy. At the end of the book, I wrap it all up and say, look, you know, at the beginning of the book, I told you a story about this woman that I took all this weight off of, but I feel like a colossal failure because I didn't teach her anything. You know, I didn't, you know, I didn't, I gave her a fish. I didn't teach her how to fish. And had I, you know, that

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  was the big takeaway for me was you can't just do this to people. You know, that's not right. Yeah, she was in it for the big money. She just wanted to lose the weight to do her sitcom. But at the end of the day, that's not who I am. And that's when I realized that you can't just sell out to Hollywood. You got to either do this right or don't do it at all. And that was a big lesson for me. And that was a defining moment for me not to ever do that again. And I've never done that again. And I think that's why people are connecting to this book and liking this book, because the end of the book comes with an apology to, hey, I fucked up. I really screwed up, you know, and I didn't like myself

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  because of it. And that's, you know, sitting here today, that still bugs me about that actress.

• 1:10:31Rich Roll?

  And so when you work with clients today, like, you know, some of the people that you work with, whether they're celebrities or the every person, I mean, what are the, you know, speaking to that idea of teaching them how to fish, I mean, what are some of the things that, you know, are fundamental kind of tools that you help them kind of incorporate into their lives?

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  I teach more. I don't just, you know, most trainers, kind of the trainer system is not much different than, you know, ski instructors. Ski instructors, when you go to a resort, they realize that they're going to have you for a couple of days and they turn you and burn you. Trainers will do the same thing. They'll just go in, try to get you to lose some weight. At some point, you become, you know, disenchanted with this hero of a trainer and you go find another trainer. I take great pride in the fact that most of my clients that I have have been with me 10 years, 12 years. The woman I'm gonna see this afternoon has been with me for, well, she was six months old when I started training her mother. I trained her brother, who I write

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  about in the book, and she's 22 now. I've been training her for 16 years. These people keep you year in and year out because you're teaching them. You're teaching them about eating, you're teaching them about diet, you're teaching them about lifestyle.

• 1:11:46Rich Roll?

  But shouldn't somebody have learned that in 16 years? You know what I mean? It's sort of like you go to therapy to get well, but do you do it for your whole life? Like you do it so that you can put an end to it?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  That's why I don't have you going in to talk to my clients.

• 1:11:57Rich Roll?

  You know, you couldn't get the point across in a couple of years? They got us 16 years?

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  They love that motivation. You know, they...

• 1:12:04Rich Roll?

  I guess some people just need that, you know?

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Like, you know, Howard's the only celebrity we talk about because we hang out together. And people see us out together. So, we talk about him. And he did the foreword for my book and the whole thing. You know?

• 1:12:20Rich Roll?

  And he looks great, by the way. We said that, we talked about it on the other podcast, but he's looking really healthy.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  He's 58 now. That guy looks, he takes his shirt off, he looks like a teenager. And, you know, he gives me the credit for it, but he pays attention and does the work and pays attention to his diet. And he also puts a little life into living. You know, he does the whole thing. And I train other people in this family. You know, his daughter's getting married end of this month. You know, one to a wedding. You know, you become family with these people.

• 1:12:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  You know, that sort of thing.

• 1:13:03Rich Roll?

  So, you're not looking to transcend this? Like you, you want to keep training? That's your primary thing, no matter what, right?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Jonathan, our mutual friend Jonathan Goldhill, yesterday he was looking at the numbers and he was going, "Jesus Christ, what if this becomes a thing? What if you become a thing? What if you..." And I said, "Well, that would be great, but I would never stop doing what I'm doing. This is what I do. I'm a teacher. That's all I really do." I'm not an author.

• 1:13:31Rich Roll?

  So here's one for you.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:33Rich Roll?

  So speaking to this.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Smiling, I'm in trouble.

• 1:13:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah. No, I just thought of this. So speaking to this idea of, you know, this apology, fitness confidential, you know, you're this sort of confidential apology, or this idea of selling out and atoning for that. So let's just, let's play it out. Like, let's say, let's say the book, you know, kills it, sells a ton, and, you know, gets on the radar of the powers that be, and they're like, hey, you know, Biggest Loser season 85 is coming up, and we're looking for some new blood. Like, why don't you come on down?

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Wouldn't do it.

• 1:14:09Rich Roll?

  Wouldn't do it.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Wouldn't do it.

• 1:14:10Rich Roll?

  Huge paycheck.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Big paycheck, wouldn't do it.

• 1:14:13Rich Roll?

  Primetime TV.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  That would be a sellout.

• 1:14:16Rich Roll?

  That is, yeah, so there, so that, that is like, that's sort of the penultimate kind of trainer platform.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  It would be tough, but it would be, you know, we talk about that on my podcast, you know, if Coca-Cola, if Gatorade, which is Coca-Cola, came to me and said, look, Vinnie, we know you, you're no sugars, no grains, but here's a million bucks.

• 1:14:37Rich Roll?

  Pitch our sugar product.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  I couldn't do it, because at that moment, I lose my integrity.

• 1:14:43Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:14:44Rich Roll?

  It's all about integrity and authenticity.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Now, if a show came, like Biggest Loser, and said, okay, it's you versus Gillian, what is it, Gillian Michaels, it's you versus Gillian, you do your method, and she'll do her method, and we want you, you know, we'll watch you do your method, but that'll never happen. They have a formula, they gonna, they would want me to do their formula within the show. I wouldn't do it.

• 1:15:09Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  You know, Bob Harper just wrote a book, the other guy on that show.

• 1:15:13Rich Roll?

  Right, Skinny Rules, right?

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  He's telling people to eat nothing.

• 1:15:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I haven't read the book.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it, pieces and parts came to me. He's telling, I mean, that's a sellout. That guy is selling out. I don't care how genuine he thinks he's being, he's being disingenuous, he's lying to people, and he knows he is. Or if he doesn't know he is, that, that's fine, too. That's almost better, if he doesn't know he's selling out. But these people are selling out to sell books. I won't do it.

• 1:15:40Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  In my heart of hearts, I can't do it.

• 1:15:43Rich Roll?

  So what makes the message of your book different, and not selling out?

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  That's an interesting question. Um, namely, I don't, I don't pull any punches. And you'll see that in the reviews. People, this guy just doesn't pull punches. He tells you like it is. That book, if anyone, if any advertiser reads that book, they'll realize they can never get me to sell anything. You know? The book pulls no punches. I call a spade a spade. You know, back, we were talking about back in the day. Back in the day, I got offered more infomercials for fitness products than probably anyone else in town. Because they figured, hey, this guy can walk and talk and chew gum. You know, he looks half decent. He's got a great looking body. Let's hook him to a product. I did one when I first moved to town, and that's when I learned I should never do this

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  again.

• 1:16:35Rich Roll?

  What happened? What was it?

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  It was called The Body Plus, it was called The Gladiator. Remember, The Gladiators were a big show back in 91.

• 1:16:43Rich Roll?

  I do remember that show.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  The Gladiator Body Plus Fitness Machine, and I was their model. They had me without a shirt on, all oiled up, and there were smoke machines, and I'm doing this a half an hour infomercial. And I did that thing. As a matter of fact, great story behind that. I, I was new in town, and I was doing a lot of that to make money. I didn't have clients yet. This was even before the Gallin-Mori thing. And I'm in town, I get this job. It was a company called Real to Real. I'll never forget the guy, Paki McFarlane was the guy who did this. He was down in the San Diego area. So I get the job to be the Body Plus Fitness Guy. And, um, I lost my train of thought of what I was going to tell you about the Body Plus Fitness Machine.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  What were we talking about?

• 1:17:31Rich Roll?

  We were talking about the infomercial and doing, and being new in town, and this is before the gallon meeting and...

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. So I get the job, I do the ad. They used to give awards for these infomercials. Like the best infomercial of the year and this and that and the whole thing. This infomercial became a big thing. And it was everywhere. They played it around the clock on cable, everywhere. So I was new in town. I didn't know any women. And I was living in Santa Monica at the time, in Brentwood. And Third Street Promenade was just kind of becoming a thing. And they had a movie theater down there. And I would go on Saturday nights and I'd watch a movie by myself because I didn't know anyone. And after the movie, I would go, there was a sports bar. I'd go get, you know, a burger or something. I'd sit there at the bar because I didn't know anyone. And one night it was getting pretty late.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I saw the late movie. The street was kind of closing down. I walked into this bar to get a burger. I'm sitting there and there's these two fairly hot chicks who are sitting next to me. As a matter of fact, to be honest with you, I positioned myself next to these hot chicks, hoping to get a conversation started. Well, since the bar was clearing out, I went, you know, the bartender, turns out he knew the girls. They were talking about, hey, we'll go hiking next weekend. We'll do this, we'll do that. And in the middle of all that, he says, one of the girls said, why don't you turn the channel? And he gave them the clicker. And they started flipping through the channel up on the big screen. And they go past my infomercial.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  And one of the girls says to the other girl, wait, wait, go back, go back. You need to see this guy. So they go back one channel and I look up and I see that it's me on the screen. And they start having a conversation. And one of them goes, oh, this guy's pretty hot. And the other girl goes, yeah, but you know, all those hot guys, they're always gay. And she said, ah, he doesn't look gay. I don't, they were having the, is he gay conversation? And I'm sitting there going, this is my ticket.

• 1:19:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this is, your cue is now.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ, somebody's getting laid tonight. And it looks like it might be me, you know? I'm like, I'm getting all excited about this, you know? It's like, so as you know, I never look good. I always have a, I need a five day growth. You and I look, we have the five day growth. My hair is all matted up. I got a baseball cap on. I got heavy, you know, like clothes. I never, you know, have revealing clothes on. And I got this big sweater on. And I said to the girl, I said, hey, you see that guy up there? She goes, yeah. I said, that guy is me. And they both look at the screen and they both look at me and they look back at the screen and one of the girls, yeah, right. No, no, no, you don't understand. Look, they

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  keep saying, Fanny, look, my name is Vincent. I'm pulling my wallet. I couldn't convince these women anyway, which that that was me up on the screen.

• 1:20:28Rich Roll?

  It was just too shocking and unbelievable. So there, I mean, that's sort of like being new to town and having that happen. So you're like, yeah.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that led me to believe not to become that guy that shows for other people. I learned a lot of lessons. I mean, you've been out here for a long time, too. You were an entertainment attorney. I mean, there's a lot of big money, a lot of big deals that come along. You can't just take every single one of them.

• 1:20:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's, there's actually very few that you can take.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:00Rich Roll?

  You know, and, and most stuff doesn't work out anyway.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:05Rich Roll?

  You know, as an entertainment lawyer doing, I represented directors and writers and producers, mostly in independent film projects. And, you know, I've done maybe two, 300 option deals where people option a script or option a book, you know, to develop it into a movie. And out of all of that, maybe three movies got made.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:21:29Rich Roll?

  I mean, yeah, or just putting movie deals together like all day long, but you become jaded because you're like, this is never going to be a movie. You know what I mean? Like, most times it's not. And it's the rare miracle when everything lines up and something actually turns into a viable project. So it's hard not to get like, sort of like pessimistic about all that kind of stuff when you've been here for a while.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  But a lot of the option money is gone now, right? I mean, they don't option as much as they used to.

• 1:21:57Rich Roll?

  Well, you still have to, you still have to sew up rights. It's just a question of how much money gets paid for that.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Rich Roll?

  So, you know, it's not as much. I mean, you know, with the conglomeration of all the major studios, making fewer and fewer movies and only interested in franchise material and what, you know, Marvel and DC Comics are doing, that's really squeezed out the sort of adult independent feature market for like serious dramas.

• 1:22:25Rich Roll?

  But everything ebbs and flows. So it goes away. There's the money dries up for those kinds of movies. There isn't a place for that. And then there's a reaction. And I think it's starting to come back a little bit now. But, you know, it's a, it's interesting to watch.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Yes. And you're not gonna ever go back into it, were you?

• 1:22:44Rich Roll?

  Well, my, you know, I enjoy doing it, but you know, I feel it doesn't give me the feeling that, that doing what I'm doing now does. So the trick is trying to find a way to, to, like I said, support my family doing this, but also stay authentic to the message. I mean, I'm certainly not going to, not that it's been offered, but if it, if it ever was, you know, to like, take money from Coca-Cola or Gatorade, of course not, right? So how do you, how do you sort of responsibly find ways to earn without undercutting or, or undermining your authenticity in the message that you're trying to promote, right?

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28Rich Roll?

  And when you're, when you're, when you're trying to promote a no BS message, that, that then thins the herd. You know what I mean?

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're absolutely right, yeah.

• 1:23:37Rich Roll?

  It's like, you can't, you can't, you know, you, there are very few deals that you can do. And those deals aren't going to be the, you know, big money deals, because the big money deals are the deals that involve you selling out and promoting a message that is not in alignment with what got you to the place in the first place to be able to get the deal, right?

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  You're right. And I'm not, you, you, you and I are talking the same game. We're not going to walk away from our messages.

• 1:24:02Rich Roll?

  No. I'd like to just find a way to do the podcast three times a week and, you know, and have it turn into a sustainable source of income through responsible advertising that doesn't dominate it. So, and then we could just continue to use the microphone to promote our respective messages.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Do you think it's possible? Because you're talking what I'm thinking. See, my thing is, I want to train people from six in the morning until three or four in the afternoon, and then call it a day. I don't want to work until 10 o'clock anymore. I'm 51 years old this year. And I'd love to stop doing the nighttime stuff. I'd like to have a life. I'd like to see Serena from time to time. And I keep saying, if I could just make enough money to do that. And make it sustainable. I'd do it in a heartbeat.

• 1:24:48Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, you're getting there.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's hope.

• 1:24:51Rich Roll?

  You're getting there.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Let's hope.

• 1:24:53Rich Roll?

  The podcast, man, double down on that. Invest in that, seriously. No, but I mean, just, you know what I mean? Keep doing it.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  I am. People thought that as soon as the book came out, I would stop. The podcast has become its own thing.

• 1:25:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  You know, we just recorded number 151.

• 1:25:10Rich Roll?

  Oh, my God. 151 episodes already? How, when did you start?

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  One year ago.

• 1:25:14Rich Roll?

  Only a year ago.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So one third of every day this year.

• 1:25:18Rich Roll?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  But you see, Rich.

• 1:25:21Rich Roll?

  That's like one every other day.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:23Rich Roll?

  Almost.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  But that's, you know, that's me going balls to the wall, 200 miles, you know, for the first 200 miles of a race. That's, that's how my head works. That's why I don't drink heavily because I would be the world's biggest alcoholic. That's why I've never smoked a joint because I would smoke every joint.

• 1:25:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, I know what that's like.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  So I just, that's why I don't do anything. I just, I, my brain just goes, okay, you doing this? Do it.

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  There is no cutoff valve, which is a problem.

• 1:25:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, that's, that's, that's a frequent sort of subject of discussion on this podcast is how, and it's a challenge of mine as well because, listen, you don't do Ultraman or Furnace Creek 508 if you're, if you're like an even keel person, you know, you're, you're prone to extremes. You're, you have a certain ability to become obsessive about a certain task or goal that, that is important to you. And that's what drives you.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:23Rich Roll?

  And that's what makes you excel at what you do or be able to follow through on things that are important to you and do the 508 and blah, blah, blah. But in order to be happy, I think you have to be able to tone that down and balance it against other things in your life.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:41Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? And that's the hard part for me.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Well, hopefully you can stop making enough money to where you can make that happen.

• 1:26:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I mean, and it's not really, it's not a function of money, really. You know what I mean? It's a function of, I mean, you know, having finances helps, but I don't really think it's about that. I think it's about prioritizing and just making a decision like, you know, when you're, you sort of have that fantasy like, oh, I'm going to go train all day. And being able to say, actually, you know what, like Serena would be very appreciative if I didn't do that. And I, we went on a road trip this afternoon somewhere or something like that. You know what I mean? Like, sure. Or what else in my life is not being attended to with the same amount of intensity as, you know, where I feel like inclined to put it? You know, where could it be better served? And that doesn't have anything to do with money.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but money, money facilitates some of that stuff, you know, it's like, it's

• 1:27:39Rich Roll?

  It does, it does, but every time it does, for sure. But I think that every time I, I sort of make that decision that money will solve a problem and then money comes in. Money never ends up being the solution to the problem. You know what I mean?

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  No, you, you're absolutely right.

• 1:27:54Rich Roll?

  It'll create a new problem or something else. And just, that's just been my experience.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  So what did we learn here today? That money is the root of all evil?

• 1:28:00Rich Roll?

  I don't know. I don't know. This is pretty rambling today.

• 1:28:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Rich Roll?

  Lay some truth down and we'll wrap it up.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  Uh, go out, buy the book. That's the truth.

• 1:28:09Rich Roll?

  Well, first you gotta click on the Amazon banner at richroll.com.

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Always go to richroll.com unless you listen to my show.

• 1:28:16Rich Roll?

  You know what? I want to thank everyone out there for using it because that's been great. People have been so supportive of the show by using the banner ad and it's, it's such a great way to support the show. It doesn't cost anybody anything. You know what I mean? And it, and it really like pays the bills for this podcast. It's fantastic. It's a win-win for everybody. And what's fun, I don't know if you do this because you're such a Luddite with your tech, but if you go to the Amazon affiliate page, you can actually scroll through like what people have bought by using your banner ad.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. And it does that. Yeah.

• 1:28:50Rich Roll?

  So I want to start like picking somebody every week to like give them a shout out like somebody who decides they're gonna buy like a flat screen TV or some big purchase, you know, and I don't know, give them some free swag or something.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  That's a great idea. Do you have t-shirts and stuff yet?

• 1:29:05Rich Roll?

  We're just, we're just getting the t-shirts going. I Instagrammed the design for the first, I mean, there's not gonna be one be all end all t-shirt. We're gonna do a whole ton of different ones, but the first one's gonna be available in a couple of weeks and I took a picture and threw it up on Instagram last week. It should be available in like two weeks and I already held a contest online for a couple of people to win them. So, yeah, getting that going.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  Mine just came, as a matter of fact, I grabbed it in the car.

• 1:29:36Rich Roll?

  You have an NSNG? Yeah. Is it, does it have a hashtag on it?

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:39Rich Roll?

  That's what my, mine's hashtag plant power. So you have a hashtag. Yeah, you gotta use the hashtag.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, the hashtag is in the circle. I'll show it to you. I need to walk out of here in a second. I didn't even open the box yet.

• 1:29:48Rich Roll?

  Oh, you didn't?

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  So I haven't seen it. We're gonna see them together.

• 1:29:50Rich Roll?

  Cool. Excellent, man.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  And what size do you wear? I'll get you one next time.

• 1:29:54Rich Roll?

  And I'll get you one as well. I don't know, medium, large?

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  Medium?

• 1:29:58Rich Roll?

  Whatever.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  All right. Next order, I'll get you one and these are all spoken for, but these are the first ones and they're, they're really cool.

• 1:30:05Rich Roll?

  Exciting.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  I think they're cool, so.

• 1:30:06Rich Roll?

  So do you have a picture of them up on your site?

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, you.

• 1:30:09Rich Roll?

  Can you order them already?

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, people, people have, these are, people have, my, my fans have them before me.

• 1:30:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  And these are my first ones.

• 1:30:18Rich Roll?

  That's the way it should be.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, go get them and they've been buying them for a couple of weeks. You just click on the little t-shirt thing and.

• 1:30:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I like your new site, by the way. It's about time. Your other site was horrible.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, but it was just to get me started. You know, you, you know what I did? WordPress, put something up, do a podcast.

• 1:30:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, your new site's, your new site's all pro, man. I like it. It's all dialed in now.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, uh, I got something going there now.

• 1:30:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  I've grown up.

• 1:30:44Rich Roll?

  I'm proud of you, man.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Thanks. I'm proud of you.

• 1:30:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's been a fun little journey.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Rich Roll?

  All right, well, we patted each other on the back a little bit here.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  Now, let's get out of here. I gotta get on the phone with you. Do you know John Smith? Do you ever get him on the show?

• 1:30:55Rich Roll?

  No, who's that?

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  He's a triathlon guy in New Orleans of all places and he has a podcast. As soon as I leave here, I get in the car and get on the phone with him and do another podcast.

• 1:31:05Rich Roll?

  Oh, is he, uh, um, which, what's his podcast called?

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  He was Garden Try.

• 1:31:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I did, uh, yeah, I did an interview with him. Yeah, yeah. Uh huh, for sure.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  He's a good guy. So, uh. I leave here, get in the car, pick up the phone and start talking to John.

• 1:31:20Rich Roll?

  Good man, I like it.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:22Rich Roll?

  Alright, cool. So, alright, we'll get you out of here. So, vinnietortorich.com is where you go to find out more about Vinnie. @vinnietortorich on Twitter. You got a Facebook page too, right?

• 1:31:33Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I got it, I got it.

• 1:31:34Rich Roll?

  You got all that stuff. Check out his new website, get a t-shirt, and if you're gonna buy the book, which you are, "Fitness Confidential," in Kindle and paperback, click on the Amazon banner ad on richroll.com. Pick it up and pick up whatever else you're gonna get on Amazon. And it'll be a good day for all of us.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Rich Roll?

  Alright, man. Thanks for dropping by.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:31:56Rich Roll?

  Alright buddy. Peace. Plants.