[EXPLICIT] The Post-Punk Algonquin Round Table: Peace, Plants & PMA

Oh snap — s*$%t is about to get real! Back by popular demand, I am overjoyed to bring together two of my most popular repeat guests on the RRP — John Joseph and Mishka Shubaly– for an epic threesome. Call it my Post-Punk Algonquin Round Table: uncensored ruminations NYC style on sobriety, writing books, eating plants, running ridiculously long distances, expanding consciousness, walking a spiritual path and PMA — John's personal mantra for positive mental attitude. I cannot overstate how much I love these guys. And on the mic they never disappoint. As you might suspect, the Cro-Mags' frontman aka Bloodclot returns to do what he does best — incite, provoke, educate and entertain. Straight talk directly from the streets of the Lower East Side with one singular, driving purpose: getting people to “wake the f&*k up”, expand consciousness and take control of our lives. Not to be outdone, Mishka fills the co-host role today and holds his own with JJ (not easy), rounding out the conversation with his always humorous, astute observations on the creative, athletic, sober life. But the predominant subject of today's show revolves around the release of John's new book — a completely updated and rewritten version of his previously self-published cult hit: Meat Is For Pussies: A How To Guide For Dudes Who Want to Get Fit, Kick Ass and Take Names* If you're a long-time listener to the show, my boys need no introduction. If you're new and unfamiliar with these phenomenons, I urge you to check out my earlier introductory posts and tune into their multiple previous appearances (hyperlinks to previous shows in the below Notes). As for JJ, suffice it to say the guy is a true American original. Lower East Side thief, abuse survivor, drug dealer & brawling gutter rat reborn as spiritual warrior. CBGB Street Poet. Punk-ass Robin Hood. Plantpowered Ironman. Spiritual evangelist. A life story so astounding, I can only describe it like this: “Take a little Charles Bukowski, add some Hugh Selby, Jr., throw in a little Jerry Stahl and finish it off with a light dusting of Paramahansa Yogananda. Then toss them all in a Martin Scorcese movie, douse the whole thing in kerosene and light it on fire. That is John Joseph.” But John is also one of the most spiritual, giving cats I have ever met. The guy who will always engage a stranger on the street; and literally move mountains to help a less fortunate soul in need — and never ask for anything in return. A the end of the day, all you really need to know about John is condensed into this little gem that recently appeared on Vice.com– the most entertaining “how to make a green smoothie” video of all time: Meditation; service; sobriety; GMO's; the “V” word; the nutritional plight of the everyman; balancing life as both an athlete and creative person; and what it means to truly be a man — these are the topics of the day. And yes, we address head-on the heated controversy swirling around the title of John's new book. My opinion? This is a great book. It's not written for the converted. It's written for the guy who wouldn't pick up VegNews Magazine if it was the only thing left on the entire planet to read. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:13Mishka Shubaly?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:17Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. My name is Rich Roll, and this, of course, is the Rich Roll Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for spreading the word, for telling a friend, for sharing it on social media and Instagram and the like. I love that stuff. And thank you, of course, for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for your Amazon purchases. All of those things are helping us out. It's helping us spread the Plant Power message, trying to get a healthy, inspiring, positive message, as John Joseph, today's guest, says, "PMA," positive mental attitude, out to as many people as possible. So, thank you so much. So, I just got back from New York City. I love that place.

• 2:01Rich Roll?

  It's such a great trip, four or five days there. I banged out a whole bunch of really cool podcast interviews, which, of course, today is one of. I didn't want to waste any time getting this one up, because I know how popular John and Mishka are.

• 2:16Rich Roll?

  Both of them together are two of my most popular guests. But anyway, before I get into that, I also, the real reason that I went to the city was to be able to support John Joseph at the book release party for the release of his new book, which came out earlier this week, called Meat is for Pussies. And it's a controversial title, for sure, and it's polarizing, and we're going to talk about that today on the podcast. We're going to hear John's perspective on the whole thing. It stirred up quite a debate online in various Facebook pages and comment sections and the like, and including the comment sections on Amazon where his book is posted. So, we're going to talk about that, we're going to address it head-on.

• 2:59Rich Roll?

  But really, I love John, and if you are a longtime listener of the show, he's been on twice already, episode 41 and 66, if you want to go back and haven't heard those interviews. And that's where he goes into his background in depth. We're not going to do that so much today, so if he's new to you, you might want to go back and listen to those to get the full picture of what this guy is all about. He's an incredible human being, he's a survivor, he is a street poet of sorts, he's a punk rock icon, he's the frontman for a band called The Cro-Mags, which was an iconic punk band in New York City in the early 80s. He's born and bred on the mean streets of New York, in the Lower East Side, and he's

• 3:42Rich Roll?

  the most tried and true, authentic human being, quite possibly, that I've ever met in my life. But more than that, behind kind of his tough guy exterior and all the labels and the accolades, he is an incredibly sensitive guy with a huge heart. This is a guy who will literally move mountains privately to help someone in need, and a guy who never asks for anything in return. And he's an incredibly spiritual cat, who is very conscious at his deepest level that none of this is about him, the book, whatever, the success, his band, all of that, it's really not about him or his ego, it's about his devotion to a higher purpose, it's about

• 4:26Rich Roll?

  his dedication to service and helping others. And that's what his book is all about. Behind kind of the humor and the brashness, he really does want to help people. And he has a rare gift for being able to connect with a population of people that, you know, maybe a more kind of highbrow literary approach would never connect with. So, his book is really for, you know, the guy who wouldn't pick up Veggie News Magazine if it was literally the last thing to read on planet Earth. But John can connect with that kind of person, and that's why his gift is a book, and that's why I have zero doubt that it is going to go on to transform the lives of countless thousands.

• 5:09Rich Roll?

  I love John and I love Mishka. If Mishka's new to you as well, he's been on the podcast twice and is also an ultra-runner. He's also, like John and myself, an author. He's the author of a couple Kindle bestselling singles. The one he's most noted for is called "The Long Run," which he talks about sobriety and ultra-running. It's a great, easy read, so you should check that out. He's got a new Kindle single coming out, he's got a book deal, and he's also a musician with an album coming out, and he's going to be opening for Doug Stanhope for a couple dates in New York City. So, I thought it would be really fun to get the three of us together, because I've done individual podcasts with these guys, but we've never done it all in one room, the three of us.

• 5:53Rich Roll?

  And I thought it would make for kind of a groovy, post-punk, all gonklin roundtable of sorts. And we have so many commonalities, points of interest, everything from endurance sports to being authors, to being on a spiritual path towards growth and health and diet and nutrition. Of course, John is passionate about plant-based nutrition and personal spiritual evolution, so we talk all about all of that stuff. But, really, what I wanted to do is kind of introduce to you guys his new book. And to kind of urge you to pick it up. I was honored to write the foreword to it. And I love this book. It's really easy to read and it's written in John's kind of humorous,

• 6:35Rich Roll?

  acerbic style. And so it's very different from any other kind of book you're ever going to read about plant-based nutrition, or diet, or health. But it's a fun read. It's really fun. And John is taking a little bit of heat right now, online. It's heat that he embraces for the title, which of course is polarizing. So I guess my kind of final plea to you guys is if you have enjoyed John's message on the podcast previously, if you dig where he's coming from and the message that he's trying to put out, and you pick up the book and enjoy it, do John a favor. John would never probably ask, but I'm asking on his behalf to go on

• 7:16Rich Roll?

  to Amazon where the book is and leave a review there. There's some people that are stirring up some heat there over the title. They haven't even read the book and they're trying to dress him down on a book that they haven't taken the time to even crack the page. And they don't know who John is, or what his true mission is. And, you know, I just want to support what he's trying to do, because I've seen up close and personal firsthand how many people this guy helps. This is a guy who wakes up every day and his first thought in his mind is, who can I help today? And how can I be of service? And when I introduced him at his book party in New York the other night, we were surrounded by so many people whose lives that this guy has touched over the years. There was even a guy from a foster

• 8:00Rich Roll?

  home that he had helped, who is just about to graduate college. So it's kind of people like that. These are the people that John is impacting, and these are the people that need help, and these are the people that he's trying to help. So let's help him help those people. All right. So a final note before we get into the interview. And if you're a longtime listener to the show, you already know it, but this episode is explicit. You cannot edit John, nor would you want to. The F-bombs are flying around like crazy. And so if that's just not your thing... Or it rubs you the wrong way, then maybe this isn't the best episode for you. But it's definitely NSFW, not safe for work.

• 8:43Rich Roll?

  And you might want to not play it while the kids are around, or just pop your ear bones in instead. But try to listen through in between the F-bombs and hear John for where he's coming from. And without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Thanks so much for tuning in.

• 9:10John Joseph?

  I could tell they were two, like, off-duty cops. You could just tell. But they were like, they came up to us in Rockaway, right? And they're like, pulling up, and they were like, saying some shit, and like, and then I thought they were asking for directions. They're like, "Yo, was that you guys back on fucking Sunrise Highway? Fucking..."

• 9:35Rich Roll?

  They couldn't believe that you had ridden that far?

• 9:37John Joseph?

  They were like, "Holy fucking shit, dude, you guys fucking hauled."

• 9:41Rich Roll?

  Who were you riding with?

• 9:43John Joseph?

  Sean, he's fucking dope. He's the buyer at Paragon, but he like, he was a pro, uh...

• 9:52Rich Roll?

  Pro cyclist?

• 9:53John Joseph?

  Yeah, pro mountain biker, dude. Like, top finishing, yeah.

• 9:57Rich Roll?

  How can you never go across the GW Bridge and go up NIW? Because you always take pictures when you're out at Rockaway.

• 10:03John Joseph?

  Yeah, I tell you, I go up to NIAC and shit. I'm actually getting ready to do NIAC on my tri-bike.

• 10:08Rich Roll?

  Nice. So what are you training for right now?

• 10:10John Joseph?

  Uh, I got, uh, the Malibu Olympic Triathlon, uh, which is like a tune-up race, whatever.

• 10:20Rich Roll?

  So that's finally gonna get you over to my house.

• 10:22John Joseph?

  Yeah, motherfucker. Eric is coming with me, too, so...

• 10:26Rich Roll?

  That's good. Where are you guys, where are you staying?

• 10:28John Joseph?

  Uh, my boy Todd's place.

• 10:30Rich Roll?

  Okay, cool.

• 10:31Mishka Shubaly?

  I love that an Olympic triathlon is just your little warm-up race. Just like, off the dollar menu.

• 10:37Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's a hour forty-five, two hours compared to a...

• 10:41John Joseph?

  Yeah, I did it in 2:04, the New York one. I did the bike leg in an hour and two.

• 10:47Rich Roll?

  They didn't do, do they have the Nautica-New York one this summer?

• 10:50John Joseph?

  Nah, they, uh, where's the bag? What do you call it? The bag's on the floor over there. Who's the sponsor, just off the top of my head?

• 10:57Rich Roll?

  Mamachia?

• 10:59John Joseph?

  Mama. No, the yellow bag right there. The yellow.

• 11:02Rich Roll?

  Oh, Aquasphere?

• 11:03John Joseph?

  Yeah, Aquasphere. Yeah, Nordeca dropped off.

• 11:07Rich Roll?

  So did they have that race already this summer?

• 11:09John Joseph?

  No, that's uh, that's next weekend.

• 11:11Rich Roll?

  Uh, are you, but you're not doing it?

• 11:13John Joseph?

  Nah, nah, I'm on tour. I'm in Texas. Next week we go Dallas. I got the book party and I fly out the next day to go play Texas Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

• 11:23Mishka Shubaly?

  Are you doing a book tour proper or you're, or it's just gonna be like?

• 11:27John Joseph?

  Ain't no fucking.

• 11:28Rich Roll?

  No.

• 11:29John Joseph?

  I got all kinds of shit. We're about to sign a TV deal.

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  Tell me about that.

• 11:33John Joseph?

  Are we recording?

• 11:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we're on, dude. We started a long time ago.

• 11:37John Joseph?

  Uh, well, I did this thing for Vice, which was.

• 11:40Rich Roll?

  I saw the munchies video.

• 11:41John Joseph?

  Yeah, so it was kinda like, you know, the way I talk, which is like, did you just cut one of that?

• 11:48Mishka Shubaly?

  No, I'm, I was trying to discreetly open my water. Yeah. If I do that in a room this small.

• 11:53Rich Roll?

  We're in, we're in New York City.

• 11:54John Joseph?

  You are about, you are about as discreet as a fucking jackhammer, Michigan.

• 11:59Rich Roll?

  So we're, we're in New York City. I got up.

• 12:01Mishka Shubaly?

  Wait, you're telling me I'm not discreet?

• 12:03John Joseph?

  No, you ain't.

• 12:04Mishka Shubaly?

  Gentleman John over there.

• 12:05Rich Roll?

  This podcast is already off the rails. Already lost control. Uh, we're in New York City. I flew in today. I've been flying all day. I got here. We're in a tiny little hotel room. It's 90 degrees out. We gotta turn the AC off cause uh, it makes too much noise. And we're all, we're basically, Michigan and I are laying in bed next to each other and John's on the other side there.

• 12:25John Joseph?

  They're canoodling.

• 12:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, hopefully it doesn't get too hot. That'll, that'll probably prevent us from going too long today. But hey, first, before we even get into it, man, it's good to see you guys.

• 12:35John Joseph?

  Likewise.

• 12:35Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, welcome back, man. Been too long.

• 12:37John Joseph?

  Yeah, man.

• 12:38Rich Roll?

  I'm really glad that uh, we can make this happen.

• 12:42John Joseph?

  But uh, what were we talking? Oh yeah, so um,

• 12:46John Joseph?

  we did the Vice thing and basically.

• 12:49Rich Roll?

  How did that do for them? Cause that was a hilarious video.

• 12:51John Joseph?

  It was the biggest uh, I think like the, the biggest uh, views they had on anyone that they did. It's on munchies and you go to John Joseph juicing and making us, making a shake and.

• 13:04Rich Roll?

  I'll put a link up in the show notes for this.

• 13:06John Joseph?

  So the funny thing was, it's just me being me, the way I talk. And the way I do shit and which is like, you know, a lot, yeah, just like.

• 13:14Rich Roll?

  What is that like, John?

• 13:15John Joseph?

  Eh, you know.

• 13:17Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah.

• 13:18John Joseph?

  We keep it straight. But uh, yeah, so these people from this production company saw it. And contacted me and were like, dude, we wanna do a fucking show with you. And so we went up and met with them. And um, so we came up with the concept and everything and we, they drafted up. I mean, they have shows on cable on fucking all the stations and.

• 13:45Rich Roll?

  They're like a reality.

• 13:46John Joseph?

  Yeah, they're, yeah, they're like a real deal company and.

• 13:49Mishka Shubaly?

  So is it gonna be like the hardcore chef?

• 13:51John Joseph?

  I can't tell you what it is, man. It's top secret, but uh. No, it ain't not. It's doing what I do, the way I do it, you know. Uh, helping people get healthy and pulling no punches. But yeah, so you know, we went up and met with them and now they drafted up contracts. We're going back and forth with our lawyers and agents and uh. Looking like it's gonna happen, you know, and uh.

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  So how does that work? They, you'd shoot a pilot and then shop it around or?

• 14:22John Joseph?

  We're gonna shoot a sizzle.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  I gotcha.

• 14:24John Joseph?

  They're like, they're gonna bug on you. I mean, you know, there's like the network, certain networks that are already like all over it and whatever. So we'll see, you know, we'll see what happens. I mean, I, I had an opportunity to do this before and then they were like, we were gonna do this thing called Street Kid Rehab. And it was the way I do it and.

• 14:45Mishka Shubaly?

  I don't, I don't know why you guys don't already have your own culinary show. I mean, you guys are the, like the yin and yang of uh, of plant power. You guys will be kick, a kick ass team.

• 14:56John Joseph?

  That, well, you know, if we get this show, I'm gonna have all dudes like him and Brendan and everybody coming on. Cause that's what it's all about. I mean, his story, look at Rich's story. It's just people that read his book are like fucking blown away.

• 15:09Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah.

• 15:10John Joseph?

  But it was funny, cause like the dude. Uh, and this is exactly how it went down. The girl who's the, one of the producers and one of the showrunners, developers. Just walked in and her roommates who are total fucking like meat eaters were like, yo, look at this fucking dude, what is this guy's fucking great, like, you know, and they eat meat and everything and she was like, holy shit. So she told the boss of the comp of the whole shit of the whole of the uh,

• 15:42Rich Roll?

  Production company.

• 15:43John Joseph?

  Yeah, that like, you have to watch this video and he's like, you're making me watch a video about juicing and smoothies? So he sat there with his arms crossed, like at first kinda wanting to hate it, but he's like, get that fucking guy in here and we wanna do a show with him.

• 16:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 16:03John Joseph?

  So, you know.

• 16:04Rich Roll?

  I'm not surprised, you know what I mean? I, I, this is where this is all heading for you.

• 16:08John Joseph?

  Yeah, uh, you know, but it's, I, I, like I was saying, we had a chance to do this other show, Street Kid Rehab, and a bunch of things happened, but one of the things, it went, we had several callbacks with A and E and all this stuff, and it always came back to the same issue. So there's no way meat can be in the house that you're bringing these young convicts into. I said, absolutely not. You know, like, I'm not going to, you know, like, you know, I'm not gonna like water down the message and like, I don't care if you got fucking Kentucky Fried Chicken is your sponsor, then I'm not the person for you. I'm not gonna dilute the message or like sell out.

• 16:48Mishka Shubaly?

  This, this is the only concern I have about you doing TV is that you actually have principles and ethics and things that you don't compromise on.

• 16:57Rich Roll?

  Well, and there's a lot of politics.

• 16:59Mishka Shubaly?

  It's all about, you know, you scratch my back and I scratch yours, or let's make a deal, or you know, that kinda shit, and I know that doesn't fly with you.

• 17:06John Joseph?

  Yeah, well, you know, I'm gonna do what I do, and if that's what they, and I told them that already, it was kinda like the same thing that went down with Meat is for Pussies. I said, this is who I am, you know what you're signing on for, and that's what I told them. You know what I do, you know what I stand for. They haven't even read my books, they're just like, we just went in and pitched them for an hour, they're like, fucking dude, we wanna work with you and. You know.

• 17:31Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, we were talking about this before, uh, before we started recording, the idea of the difference between preaching to the choir and reaching the masses, right? And so when you told that story of, you know, all the other women who are meat eaters who are watching the video saying this guy's great, the ability, your ability to tap into and connect with an audience that isn't necessarily on board with your message, that's how you change lives, right? It's not about like patting people on the back who already agree with your perspective on things.

• 18:01John Joseph?

  It's like, first of all, it's like, I don't, like you said, preaching to the choir, it's like, I don't care about the people that's already vegan or, or plant-based or whatever. I mean, I do care, but the reality is, over the 10,000 books that we sold independently on our own, a majority of those books were women who bought that book for their men who refused to change. And then they were like, yo, I love the way this dude talks and does things like, yo, this, and they actually, I corresponded with a lot of them and they, I mean, thousands of emails and it was like, dude, you're the first fucking person that ever talked this shit that I'll fucking listen to, that got through to me.

• 18:43John Joseph?

  We had one dude, Joe DeFireman, I gave him a copy, big fucking Jersey Fireman, college football player linebacker, 260 pounds, he's like, "I haven't read a fucking book since 1978. Let me tell you something, after I read your book, I realized one thing." He sent me this email. He's like, "I'm the biggest fucking pussy on the planet." And he fucking like, started changing his whole thing over. So now, you got all these politically correct, you know, people attacking me for the title of the book and I really don't give a fuck because... They have not been able to reach the masses. They have not been able to reach that demographic of men and whatever that

• 19:28John Joseph?

  to them, the vegan and the whole shit is like, that's why I put the five-letter curse word in the book. That vegan is the five-letter curse word. As soon as you say that shit dudes cringe because of the way that these people that presented the message and I'm like, I come from the street, this is where I come from, this is who I am. Yeah, I eat fucking vegetables, but that's not the all-in-all, you know?

• 19:51Mishka Shubaly?

  Let's, let's talk about the title. Why this title and why is it important?

• 19:56John Joseph?

  Well, I'll tell you originally the way that it came down, because we were trying to call it something else. I was getting ready to call it the Go Green Road to Health, Longevity and Todd Fucking Business Plot. It was like, dude, who are you fucking Dr. Oz? Motherfucker, you're John Bloodclot from the street. Like, so, and, and it always happened between me and, me and Todd, like we'd be spitballing and then Todd's your business partner. Yeah, Todd Irwin, he was played, he's a big time, played drums in a lot of bands. He put out both the books. He's like my, he's like my fucking brother, dude. Coolest dude ever. And we've been on this whole journey together and you know what?

• 20:35John Joseph?

  You gotta do the right thing. So when the book did get picked up, I gave him fucking half the advance. I'm like, that's how you do shit. When people do things for you and, and are there with you on the journey and spending their money to make shit happen, you don't forget people. You know, so the thing was before we even came up with the title, I was in the gym one day and I'm telling my friend like, yo, you know, you gotta, you know, tell, talking about the whole plant-based thing and some fucking like meathead overheard it and was like, yeah, all those motherfuckers are the fucking pussies with their fucking tofu. And I was like, excuse me, motherfucker? I'm like, dude, I've been vegetarian and plant-based for fucking thirty-three fucking years, bro, like,

• 21:20John Joseph?

  what kind of shit are you talking with your tiger stripe fucking pants and fucking like, you know, Gold's Gym tank top and fucking weight belt? You know, doing like, looking at himself in the fucking mirror for two hours. You know, but then Todd was like, dude, you, and you need to throw it, I told him what happened. And Todd's like, you need to throw it back in their fucking face. All these motherfuckers that are like, you know, vegans, vegetarians are fucking pussies and all this shit. Fuck that. I go, you know what? Meat's for fucking pussies. Fuck them motherfuckers. And he was like, dude, that's the title, that's gotta be the title of the book. Meat is for pussies. And really, it's a catchy title, but if, even if you open up that book and read, the first thing I say is, is,

• 22:05John Joseph?

  if you continue to lead these sedentary lifestyles, sedentary lifestyles, and you're sitting on your ass and eating all this genetically modified food and meat and dairy and all this shit, you'll become a pussy depending upon, you know, the drug companies to keep your ass alive. If that's what you want, put the fucking book back. It's not for you.

• 22:24Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:24John Joseph?

  So.

• 22:25Rich Roll?

  And it's the perfect title that captures, you know, encapsulates what you're all about. I mean, you just get it in the title, but it's certainly not without its controversy. And this is also what we were talking about right before we started recording. Uh, you've already gotten a little bit of taste of that. The book comes out two days from today, right? So that's part of why I'm here in town. I'm gonna go to the book party and all that kinda good stuff. Um, but Veg News Magazine, Veg News is like the, the, the primary kind of vegan magazine, national magazine out there. On their Facebook page, they showed a picture of the cover and they said, oh, we just got John's book in. We're excited to review it. And then there was like a whole conversation in the comment section. And, and you took a lot of heat and there were a lot of people that are upset about the title.

• 23:08Rich Roll?

  So I want, I just wanna give you the opportunity to, to kind of explain what, you already have a little bit, but, um, to kind of address the controversy, cause there are a lot of people that don't really understand where you're coming from. And it's most likely because they don't know who you are, they don't know what your vibe is, they don't, they don't know the story. They're just, they're just impulsively reacting to it.

• 23:26John Joseph?

  Unless they listen to Rich Roll Podcast number 77 and they know who the fuck I am.

• 23:31Rich Roll?

  Forty-one and seventy-one.

• 23:32John Joseph?

  Well, well, you know, you, you know what it is? It's like, I had one motherfucker compare me to like, like, I had people pipe in and be like, yo, This dude does a lot of philanthropic work, he fucking, you know. He's not a fucking sexist misogynist dick fucking whatever the fuck. And I was fucking with him, I'm like massage who, like playing all stupid. And then this motherfucker was like, so what John Wayne Gacy dressed as a clown and, you know, like went to entertain children in a hospital, who cares if this guy does feed, you know, if he feeds the home, it's like dude chill the fuck out. Like and a bunch of women and clearly on the cover of the book, it says for dudes

• 24:16John Joseph?

  who wanna get fit, kick ass and take names. But you know, it's a New York word, you know, it's like.

• 24:25John Joseph?

  It, we used to say it back in the fucking day, yo, stop, if I call you, if I call you a dick, am I calling you a penis, if I call you an asshole, like, you know, it's just one of those New York words that, you know, everybody throws around and to me, I'm like, it's so shot, you know, our whole thing with our company, which we, me and Todd started, which is loudspeaker, is to be disruptive and that's one of the things that we have to do, if you just, you know, i- if I sit outside of a burning building and I go, hey, man, the building's on fire, uh, maybe you guys, you know, wanna leave.

• 25:07John Joseph?

  No, you, you fucking scream at the top of your fucking lungs, like get the fuck out of the building or you're gonna fucking die. And that's my attitude with this book. Whatever it is that, you know, you know, causes people to pick up the book and read it because like the title's controversial or whatever. You know, there's a health epidemic in this country, man, it's like people, people are dying, one in three are obese. It's like all of this disease, all this other crap going on. And they're worried about the title and you know, the same thing when Rory Friedman put out Skinny Bitch. Everybody attacked her, the same politically correct fucking, you know, people.

• 25:50John Joseph?

  Regardless, what I say is judge a thing by the result.

• 25:54Rich Roll?

  And that's one of the few books that-

• 25:55John Joseph?

  And she got hundreds and thousands of women to fucking change their lives and their health and saved millions of animals. And yet, these people attacked her because she said bitch. It's like, where the fuck did society? I mean, imagine if a show like All in the Family, which was brilliant because through comedy, he made points. You know, through comedy. Where did these people get such a fucking stick up their fucking ass? That you have to fucking walk on eggshells with every fucking word you say.

• 26:27Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, All in the Family would never get made now. They would want them to be likeable.

• 26:31John Joseph?

  Yeah, fucking hockey.

• 26:35Mishka Shubaly?

  The other thing is the, the amount of shit you're getting now for the title is one one hundredth of the shit you would be getting if you published the same book under another name. The title is the right title because it's who you are. That's what the book is. And if you, if you called it the mind-body, the mind-body wellness, whatever, people would flip out when they read it and it's you.

• 26:54John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 26:55Mishka Shubaly?

  You know?

• 26:55John Joseph?

  The thing is, even if I would have said meat is for, somebody said, what if, why couldn't you say meat is for wusses? And I'm like, if I would have said wusses, they would have been like, well, that means pussies and you know, you're fucked up and like, you know. I, I don't care.

• 27:11Rich Roll?

  Well, your whole thing is you, you don't compromise. So that would, it would be disingenuous for you to, to, to call anything else, I guess.

• 27:17John Joseph?

  I don't give a fuck. I've reached fucking thugs and fucking, one, one instance, my boy Ian was a fucking, you know, fighting Muay Thai and, and he's like one of the world's most famous bodyguards in Australia. Like he fucking protects everybody. He read the fucking book and like changed his whole life and now he's turning around. It's like a touchstone. He's, he's helped. Fucking, you know, dozens and dozens of people get off the bad food. So, if I reach one person, I don't care if ten thousand motherfuckers slag me, I don't give a fuck. If I reach one person, then that book did its job. And you know what? That book has changed the lives of thousands of people.

• 28:01John Joseph?

  So I don't care what these crows fucking got to say. It's like, you know, they're just a bunch, they're just a bunch of fucking negative people that got nothing better to do than write shit on the internet. And you know what they say? The dogs may bark, but the caravan must go on. And that's, that's how I look at it. Because if anybody knows me, they know that I'm not judging anybody. I'm not fucking sexist or racist or homophobic or any of this shit. This asshole was like, you're probably come from a privileged white background. I'm like, motherfucker, do you even know me? Like, like, go do some fucking research and come back and talk shit to me. Cause you don't know me, you don't know what I've been through in my life. You know, and it's-

• 28:46Mishka Shubaly?

  I think a lot of this background information is important, that what it is, the title comes from you turning it around on another jackoff who's attacking you at the gym, telling you that you're weak because you're not eating a hot dog.

• 28:58John Joseph?

  Yeah, bada bing bada fucking boom, that's the whole thing, right there. And like, you know what I got to say to all those people? I don't really care if they don't like the title of the book. You know, it's like, I come from punk rock, man, it's fucking shock value. It's about, that's what you have to do to get through to fucking people, you know? It's like, if I just did the Go Green book, okay, the vegans would be so happy, but none of the motherfuckers we wanna reach, which is the majority of society, would touch that fucking book. Like you said, that demographic that we wanna reach, they're not reading Veg News magazine. They would not touch it, like you said, if it was the last fucking magazine on the rack in the fucking supermarket.

• 29:40Rich Roll?

  Right, I mean, the guy that you're going after is the guy that would never pick up veg news. You know, the people that already read veg news, they don't need to read your book. You know, so that's, that's what we were talking about with preaching to the choir. It's about how do you reach that fireman? How do you reach, you know, that construction worker or whoever it is? That is, you know, the least inclined person to ever pick up a book about health in any respect, whether it's vegan or otherwise. And so you have this ability to kind of like pierce that veil and get to those people and connect to those people. And that's what the book is about.

• 30:12John Joseph?

  Cause it's like my background of where I come from and everything else and what I've been through and all my experiences in life, as soon as I have a chance to have a conversation with them, which is what I told the people that were talking all this shit. I go, why don't you come to the book party? Let's sit down and have a rational conversation. And then that turned into a whole nother, well, what are you saying? That we're irrational just because we don't agree with? It's like, you're not going to get anywhere with these like fucking internet people and these people that are just so stuck in their ways. And I, I think for a large degree that, to a large degree, that that's why this whole movement has failed over the years.

• 30:53John Joseph?

  And now you're getting a whole next, you know, dudes like you, dudes like Brendan and all these cats that are kind of stepping up and, and, you know, it's, you know, dudes like, you know, John Hines and fucking, you know, you know, Rip Eselston and all these cats, um, you know, that are, that are plant-based, that are like beasts. Mike Mauler, all of these cats, like, you know, like when you tell people like, yo, I'm plant-based, I don't eat any meat. And, you know, today I just rode 85 fucking miles on my bike. You know, the other day I rode 50 and hit the fucking gym. You know, it's like.

• 31:36Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, one of the reasons I love you and Rich as a team is because I think there are a lot of people that Rich, that won't necessarily reach because of his background, where he comes, the way he speaks. And to those people, you know, I mean, I remember that thing when you dropped out of doing the veg fest thing to go and talk to people in line at McDonald's instead.

• 31:54John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Mishka Shubaly?

  And it's like, those people get you.

• 31:58John Joseph?

  Yeah, because like, you know, whatever happened at the veg fest thing, it was just like, who cares about?

• 32:07John Joseph?

  Talking to those people, most of those people just come for the free food anyway. At all those fucking vegan events. It's like, you know, they're not there to listen to somebody. You know, I'm speaking at the seed this this year. And and you know what? I did I did the seed a while ago and then I had a line out the fucking door trying to buy the book. They're like, yo, you're the first person that ever talked this way. It, you know, dealing with this subject matter. And and I'm speaking again this year in August at this.

• 32:39Rich Roll?

  Right, that's where we met at the seed.

• 32:40John Joseph?

  Yeah, man, I I I'm like, I was like fucking fanboyed out. I was like, yo, motherfucker, I gotta fucking die in a meeting. Actually, truth be told, I stalked him on fucking Facebook and he didn't write me back. I'm like, you cocksucker motherfucker.

• 32:54Rich Roll?

  Is that what happened? I don't remember that.

• 32:56John Joseph?

  I sent you a couple of things on Facebook and you never wrote me back.

• 32:59Mishka Shubaly?

  It was like, John, who? Who is this guy?

• 33:01John Joseph?

  He's like, who is this fucking weirdo?

• 33:04Mishka Shubaly?

  Did you get the auto reply from his vac?

• 33:06John Joseph?

  No, I didn't get shit, not even a reply, like, just like. I was like, yo, I'm a friend of Brendan's, man. I fucking mad respect to you.

• 33:14Mishka Shubaly?

  Rich is cold blooded, dude.

• 33:15John Joseph?

  Oh, man, damn.

• 33:16Rich Roll?

  There's a lot of noise on Facebook.

• 33:18John Joseph?

  Yeah, no, I know, it's fucking a lot of weirdos on this shit.

• 33:21Rich Roll?

  But, uh.

• 33:22John Joseph?

  But then I saw you at the seed and I was like, yo, dude, like, fucking.

• 33:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we've been, we've been dating ever since, man.

• 33:28John Joseph?

  It's it's a bromance.

• 33:43Rich Roll?

  So, uh, so, so just to be clear for the people that are listening out there. You put Meat is for Pussies out in 2010 as a self published book in a limited run. But now it's being released on the 8th.

• 33:54John Joseph?

  Harper Collins.

• 33:55Rich Roll?

  By Harper Collins.

• 33:56John Joseph?

  Wade.

• 33:57Rich Roll?

  Wide release, like, major.

• 33:58John Joseph?

  Hardback.

• 33:59Rich Roll?

  Publisher, hardback it. But but for somebody who might have already read it from the previous release, like, what's different about this?

• 34:06John Joseph?

  Uh, the chapters that. Or that I, you know, kept or updated, a lot, there's been a lot of new updates. Uh, there's new chapters, right? There's a whole new thirty day workout program with my trainer, Aaron Zavonowski, who is just like a fucking beast, plant-based, designed a thirty day workout program. There's a mental toughness training tip for every, because I think the mind is the most, like, you gave me a tip, my boy who was special forces, my other friend who's a SEAL, like, I, I think most of the whole thing about everything in life is not so much physical

• 34:46John Joseph?

  as it is the mental, so there's mental toughness training tips for every single day, and there's all new recipes, there's also with this whole environmental thing that's going on now, which, none of these people who are talking about all this global warming, or whether you agree or not, or whatever, the environment is being fucking destroyed. So, just for instance, my friend went to this thing for the rainforest, right, and saw this, um, this, uh, actually, actually it was an interview, so the person kept pushing, oh, it was in a conspiracy. Conspiracy, yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that. Yeah, they wouldn't say that it was the meat industry that's tearing down the rainforest,

• 35:31John Joseph?

  so I have a section in the back of the book that is every industry, whether it be beef, chicken, pork, egg, fish, dairy, what every single one of them with all the numbers is doing to the environment, they are the biggest polluters, the, the fishing industry, the biggest destroyers of the ocean, of the land, of the fucking air, everything, and nobody will fucking go at it head-to-head with these motherfuckers and call them out on it, because they're fucking scared, just like the woman, whatever, she wouldn't, I haven't seen the movie yet, I wanna see it, but that's what I was hearing was that they would not, a, and then she had to be like pushed up against the wall and practically fucking choked for

• 36:15John Joseph?

  her, cornered to say like, well, yes, they're tearing down. The rainforest to graze cattle.

• 36:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, essentially what it is, is I had the filmmakers on the podcast, so if you've been listening to the show, you heard that interview already, most likely, but if you haven't, there's a new documentary that's come out, it's called Cowspiracy. Actually, it's not out yet, but the guys are going across the country screening it right now. It should be available on DVD in the next couple of months, I would imagine. And I've gotten involved with the film, like, kind of just recently, to help put the word out about it. But essentially, the idea is that the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, you know, global warming, global climate change, is the animal agriculture industry. And we talk a lot about fossil fuel consumption, and water consumption, and all these sorts of things, but we don't

• 37:02Rich Roll?

  really talk about that. And, and these guys kind of go around, and, and they, they try to speak to the major nonprofits in the environmental space, and a lot of them don't even really want to touch it. And what they're really getting at is that a lot of these huge nonprofits are, are, you know, they rely on donations. And some of those donations come from that industry directly, or for people that support that industry. And so there's, it's a big political hot potato, and a lot of them don't want to talk about it. In that one instance you're talking about, it was a woman with, with a major rainforest action, I forget exactly what the name of the NGO is, but essentially trying to protect the rainforest, right? And she didn't want to say that that was a contributing thing, and he just kind

• 37:45Rich Roll?

  of kept pressing her and pressing her, and she finally was like, alright, finally, like, she started to address it. But you realize like how deep this runs, and how little we're talking about it, when it's like this giant elephant in the room.

• 37:58John Joseph?

  It's like a gag order these people have from these charities or whatever to, to, to not say anything.

• 38:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, they're scared it's gonna affect their contribution base, and they're afraid of political, you know, blowback, and they're afraid of getting sued, and there's all kinds of craziness out there.

• 38:18John Joseph?

  Well, you know what? They don't cut me no checks, so I called them out on all this shit in the back of the book. And it's astronomical, the amount of fossil fuels they use, the amount of water, the amount of land, the all the grain, it's eighty something percent of all the grain grown in the United States is fed to animal for slaughter.

• 38:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 38:40John Joseph?

  Like, it's just insane. And imagine all the fossil fuel needed to run all those carbines and them machines and, you know.

• 38:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's upside down. It's just, it's not sustainable. You just, we can't, we, we're not gonna be able to continue to feed the planet this way.

• 38:55John Joseph?

  Right.

• 38:55Rich Roll?

  And, and keep things in check.

• 38:57John Joseph?

  And that's why when you address every single issue, whether it's feeding the masses, or the environment, or health, or everything, it just all comes pointing back to like, yo, make, switch to a plant-based diet, man. And you can solve a lot of the ills of the planet.

• 39:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. So the book has the how to do it, how to do the diet, it's got the workout plan, it's got the why you should do it, like, all of that.

• 39:23John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Rich Roll?

  And you've got like Fred Bishy, who's backing up all your science on the sort of health aspects of the.

• 39:30John Joseph?

  Well, a lot of other people too, like, you know, like Dr. Ossfeld, who's like, his quotes on the back of the book, Robert Ossfeld, yeah, he's like, you know, got the credentials. And actually, right now, up in Montefiore, which the Bronx has, you know, the demographic of the Bronx is a lot of Latino and black and, you know, economically challenged people, and they're the ones who have the most issues with diabetes and everything, and he's healing them all up. He's, he's doing incredible work at Montefiore Hospital right now, and he doesn't take a dime for it.

• 40:11John Joseph?

  Every, all the money he gets, he puts back into the program, he volunteers his time, and he's, he's healing these people with heart disease and all these, you know, diabetes and, and, and, you know. Just tons of problems, you know, and uh, he's changing lives up there, you know?

• 40:31Rich Roll?

  Right. So how do you, do you address sort of the, you know, right now it's all about paleo for a lot of people, right? Paleo diet's huge. Butter was on the cover of Time Magazine like two weeks ago. Did you see that?

• 40:44John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 40:44Rich Roll?

  Butter's back. It's like the new health food or something?

• 40:47John Joseph?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:47Rich Roll?

  So there's this weird-

• 40:48John Joseph?

  They're feeling the heat. They're feeling the heat.

• 40:50Rich Roll?

  There's a weird thing going on where suddenly there's this ascension of this kind of high fat approach to eating. That's gaining, like, seems to be gaining momentum and popularity for whatever reason. And there's a lot of people who are pointing to certain studies saying, oh, didn't you get the news? Like saturated fat is not the enemy anymore. And like, there's this weird kind of thing happening right now where the plant-based movement is picking up steam and it's growing and that's awesome.

• 41:16John Joseph?

  And meat eating is actually down in America now.

• 41:18Rich Roll?

  It's down in America, but it's up globally because when you have the, the sort of industrialization of India and China and places like that, they're, they're developing a middle class and they want to have their meat. So, so globally it's actually up.

• 41:31John Joseph?

  Yeah, but if you look at things, I, you know, all these diet trends and I say, that's why I have the chapter diets are for jerk offs. Because look, look at the whole fucking like Atkins thing when that was like blowing up. And then the whole truth be told, the dude fucking slipped on ice or whatever, had a massive fucking coronary. And the wife sued the, uh, the, uh, guy doing the autopsy to not release the results of what dude's heart condition was.

• 42:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 42:02John Joseph?

  That he was fucking massively fucking sick.

• 42:05Rich Roll?

  Well, yeah, yeah. He, he like slipped on the ice. He was in New York City, right? Like he lived here. He slipped on the ice. He cracked his head. He went into a coma and then he died. So then there was a bunch of people said, oh, he died of a heart attack. No, he didn't. He was in a coma, you know? So there's all this debate and controversy around that. And so, you know, the people that are in his camp are in this kind of high fat saturated fat is not your enemy camp. They're all saying that that's nonsense, that he didn't really die of a heart attack.

• 42:34John Joseph?

  It was a contributing issue to the reason that he did pass away was his.

• 42:40Mishka Shubaly?

  The soles of his feet were greasy from all the animal fat.

• 42:44John Joseph?

  He had burger grease on his shoes from Mickey D's and the motherfucker busted his ass. But, you know, she sued to not have the autopsy results released to the public. So she got a stop order so they couldn't, you know, release those results because, you know, dude, you're sitting there eating a bunch of animal products and, you know, and the paleo shit is like, that's like, I'm like, dude, first of all, you know, it's, that's not sustainable for the planet, you know? Like if everyone tried to have, you know?

• 43:22Rich Roll?

  You couldn't, you couldn't, you can't feed the planet on grass fed beef.

• 43:26John Joseph?

  Yeah, it's ridicu- it's ridiculous. And second of all, that's one of the things, you know, the systemic pollutants that environmentally animals are picking all of that up, you know? So it's like you're gonna eat the flesh of those animals. It's, I mean, there's so many issues with the paleo thing. I mean, I think it's great and I think they see results because they're getting off their ass and they're working out and they're cutting a lot of the process foods out. But the whole thing is-

• 43:54Rich Roll?

  I think they cut the dairy out too.

• 43:55John Joseph?

  Yeah, but, you know, the whole thing is it's like you're still eating meat and the body's not really designed to break it down. So at some point you're gonna have issues down the road, you know, so.

• 44:08Mishka Shubaly?

  So why should somebody like me who's gone back and forth with the plant power thing, but yet seems to be-

• 44:15John Joseph?

  Cause you're out of your fucking mind, man.

• 44:16Mishka Shubaly?

  Unable to commit. But no, but I mean, why, why should I read this book instead of one of the other 90, you know, vegan books that are out there?

• 44:23John Joseph?

  First of all, it's not a vegan book. I don't even use the V word. I don't call myself a vegan. But um, I think first of all, the tone of it, and I say, as I say, judge your thing by the result. If you turn around and you follow what's in this book, you're gonna see the result. If you eat organic, non-GMO, plant-based diet, and you work out, and you do that 30-day workout that's in my book, watch what's gonna happen to your whole body. You're gonna reduce the acidity in your blood, you're gonna, just so many beneficial um.

• 44:57Mishka Shubaly?

  So you give real, specific advice as to how to, how to do it? How to make the step, how to?

• 45:03John Joseph?

  Exactly. There's, I, I mean, my trainer has got, I don't know how many damn qualifications, and he's right there telling you, here's what you gotta do every day. And, you know, then there's, you know, the food in there. Uh, and the thing is, is like, yeah, I eat a lot of raw now, and I'm, my taste buds have, but there's also stuff for people who are just becoming

• 45:28Mishka Shubaly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:29John Joseph?

  Uh, vegetarian, they're doing that transitional stuff. And like, all these people that are down on like, eating like, you know, just the Satan or whatever, it's like, yeah, maybe 20 years later, you can pop that shit, but don't tell me you weren't eating all that fucking fake meat shit when you started out. It, it, you know, I try to meet people where they're at, you know? And that's one of the things that Rich talks about too, is meet people where they're at.

• 45:57Mishka Shubaly?

  So this should be like a gateway drug to uh, to plant power?

• 46:01John Joseph?

  Exactly. And it, it, it, this book is designed for people who are fucking drinking beers and eating fucking barbecue meat, you know, sitting there, on the 4th of July, the meatheads at the fucking gym, and everybody else. Is it there, is this, you know, for somebody who's eating a raw food diet and doing fucking bad water runs? I mean, you know, maybe they'll get something out of it too, they'll learn how to maybe talk to people. Fucking have a fucking personality. Jesus fucking Christ, some of these people are so fucking dry, I can't, I can't listen to them for five minutes. That's what I loved about Rich, the motherfucker got a sense of humor. We sit down and fucking yuck it up for a while.

• 46:45John Joseph?

  You know, but the whole thing is, is like, if you, you judge something by the result. So, my whole thing is, I, I got all the alcohol, the drugs, all that shit out of my system. There's a lot of people that I also help with this book who were having codependency problems with fucking drugs and everything else. And alcohol, and having all these other issues. And it's like, when they see the journey where I came from, you know, fucking being in fucked up foster homes and on the street and like the whole shit that I've been through and how I was able to come through the other end. And as I say, the diet's not the end all, but it was a hu- a huge part in the evolution of my consciousness

• 47:26John Joseph?

  was to really start thinking about, you know, what the fuck I was putting in my system.

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  I think that's a huge part of your story, which is this idea that when you remove these things from your daily routine, that has shifted your consciousness. And that's a, that's a, that's a hard thing to talk about and have it come off in a way that's palatable for somebody to hear. Cause you start sounding a little like new agey and woo woo-y, but I can tell you, that's what happened to me. I wasn't immediately consciously aware of it while it was happening, but looking back on it, it was a massive shift in consciousness when I made these changes. And, and that changes everything else in your life. So, it's, it transcends what's on your plate.

• 48:08John Joseph?

  Absolutely. I mean, then I started like going to yoga. I read Sri Loparapod's books, Bhagavad Gita, Science of Self-Realization. And then I really did some, I really started like trying to deal with all the muck that was in my fucking head for years of doing crazy shit.

• 48:26Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, you, you figured out the vegetarian thing before you got off drugs, which is so interesting to me because my experience is like getting alcohol out of my life and then, you know, becoming smarter about what I eat and what I don't eat and exercising and how to exercise and stuff like that. I mean, do you want to talk about? Uh, I, I guess, you know, your, how, how you were turned on to a vegetarian diet and uh.

• 48:53John Joseph?

  Yeah, I talk about it in the book too, it was the bad brains, you know, like I worked for them and they were surrounded by all these kinda real positive, you know, PMA is the whole thing they talk about, positive mental attitude. And that's what my website is, purepma.com. And that's how we try to roll. And they were like, can't fucking eat meat, you have to eat itao, which is food that gives life and vibrance to the body. Cut out the fucking drugs, you know, cut out, I mean, and I'm not gonna say I ain't had my battles. I went through a whole shit in fucking eighty-eight with fucking smoking freebase and all that other crazy shit. But ever since that point, I knew like,

• 49:37John Joseph?

  you know, it, this, life's a razor's edge, man, you better fucking be careful. And I've been fucking sober, you know, pretty much since, since uh eighty-nine New Year's Eve or whatever, that was when I stopped smoking weed and all that. You know, but uh, I just felt being around all these dudes with higher consciousness. You take on the, you know, the qualities of the people you associate with. That's why they always say you can tell a person by the company they keep. If I'm not shooting dope, I'm not gonna hang out with some motherfucker banging fucking a bundle of dope a day, for what? Like, it's like, so, you know, if you hang around positive people, which is what I try to do

• 50:18John Joseph?

  in my life now, I've actually been cutting out so many people that just fucking are so negative. You know, and I'm like, yo, if you really wanna change, I'm there for you, but I just can't roll with you with this fucking negative shit every day. It's a fucking bummer. And, you know, it, it comes back to that whole craziness that I went through as a kid and everything else, and then hanging with the bad brains and them showing me a lot of things and their sound man being a raw foodist and, you know, then just doing the research, Victoris Kovinskas and the rest of them, you know, Hippocrates people and like really studying and trying to learn.

• 50:58John Joseph?

  That's why I always say I didn't get into this shit blindly. I was never, like, I come from the fucking street, you know? Like, I was a hustler. You were not gonna hustle me. If this shit was not true, I wouldn't, there's no way I would be doing this shit thirty-three years later. And sticking my bag, my hand in the beanbag and chanting Hare Krishna every day or whatever. Like even the frauds of that movement, you know, that took it over after Proud Pod left. I, I fucking have gone on the warpath against them, you know?

• 51:28Rich Roll?

  So how do you take, like, how have you crystallized these, you know, kind of the spirituality aspect of your journey? And put it into terms that are relatable in your book?

• 51:37John Joseph?

  It's, it, it, it's like part of my DNA at this point. It's just instilled in, in what I do every day, every day. You know, it's like, to me, I'm like, I can't see no other way to be like, you know? And the way it's in the book is like, I honestly, I think like, people have to take baby steps. I don't tell anybody there's only one path or whatever. It's like, to me, I'm like, okay, let's meet them at the road. You're eating fucking McDonald's and you're going to fucking barbecues and you're getting fucking sloshed every night. Let's, you know, you don't walk into, you know, a, a, a first grade math class and try to teach trigonometry or fucking algebra. I'm giving you the fucking one plus one equals two in this book.

• 52:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:21John Joseph?

  You know what I'm saying? It's like, and that's why people relate to it and it's told in my tone. It's like, you know, and it's funny, yeah, if you can get past, if you can pick up, uh. Yeah, most people are like, who the fuck is this motherfucker talking about? Meet us before, yo, fuck this guy. You know, like.

• 52:38Rich Roll?

  That guy lives on my blog.

• 52:40John Joseph?

  The three stages of truth, you know?

• 52:44John Joseph?

  Is first they laugh and then, and then there's severe opposition to it. And then, you know, and then they, it's accepted.

• 52:52Rich Roll?

  Acquiescence.

• 52:53John Joseph?

  Yeah. It's like, so it's like, yeah, sure, they're gonna laugh at first, eh, you know? Like whatever, but, and then they get, you know, violently opposed and, you know?

• 53:03Mishka Shubaly?

  It's invaluable though, that you're spelling it out in the, you know, the simple straightforward steps. You know, when I was, when I was trying hard to do the plant powered thing, all my friends were like, wait, so you don't eat this? And you don't eat that and you don't eat this? Like, what the fuck do you eat? Um, so you're telling people what they can't eat and what they should eat.

• 53:20John Joseph?

  Well, I tell them what they should, you know, and what to eliminate out of their diet. It, it, it, it's just like. You know, it's just like when people say, yo, you don't get high at all, you never even. I'm like, dude, I don't even take a sip of champagne on fucking New Year's Eve. I don't miss it, you know why? Because I'm dealing with a higher vibration and you can't give up the lower taste until you get a higher taste. That's what Proudie always said. So, why am I gonna go down into the muck and, and fucking eat some fucking pig knuckles or some shit? Or chitlins or whatever the fuck when I'm eating the most high vibrational food on the fucking planet? And, and I'm dealing with like spiritual consciousness, not religious, that's the big difference. It's not religion.

• 54:05John Joseph?

  All that shit is dogma. I don't, I don't deal with that. And, you know, that's why I'm able to give up intoxication and all this other stuff. You can't do that artificially. You know, you can't stick doing what I'm doing. Even, even with dietarily, like, or any of it unless it's like real shit. This is real shit. It's like, and I, I think. You know, people get that sense is like, it's a genuine thing, like, you know, I'm not fucking down, I'm not sneaking fucking Dunkin' Donuts and, and fucking White Castle behind motherfuckers back. This is, you know, I wear my fucking shit out there.

• 54:43Mishka Shubaly?

  This is not true. I saw a steak in his bag, man.

• 54:45John Joseph?

  Yeah, I got steakums and shit.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  What do you think the difference is between, uh, someone like yourself who just, who gets it and is on board? And, and the person who, you know, who's more like Mishka, who's like, put his toe in, tries it, then backs off and just can't quite like fully embrace the idea. Like, you know, how do you, how do you bridge that?

• 55:06John Joseph?

  Well, I think the bridging will come. A lot of times people that dabble and in and out, some shit happens, man, some health issue or whatever. And, how, how old are you now?

• 55:19Mishka Shubaly?

  Uh, thirty-seven.

• 55:20John Joseph?

  Okay, so, see, you're getting to the point now, your metabolism's slowing down, your fucking digestion ain't as strong as it used to be. So, as you get older in life, and I see this shit all the time, the dudes who all laughed at me when I was a young fucking, you know, nineteen- 15 year old doing this shit are all fucking obese. They got, they got health issues. Now they're coming to me like with diabetes and all this other shit like yo man. And I'm there for them. I helped them out, you know, it's, I'm never like, see, I fucking told you so. But I think like it really takes sometimes, you know, there's three types of, there's three types of individuals when it comes to the acceptance of knowledge and that's what it says in the vedas too.

• 56:03John Joseph?

  The first person hears the knowledge and they, and they grasp it and they accept it. And they apply it to their life. The second class of person, you know, they hear it. They dabble and they get kicked in the ass and then they change. The third person is the least cla- you know, the lowest class of intelligence is, you know, they just keep getting kicked in the fucking face. It's like when the male fucking donkey keeps trying to smell the female's fucking ass. And he keeps getting kicked in the fucking face and the motherfucker still goes back and, you know, fucking sniffs the ass and gets kicked again.

• 56:46John Joseph?

  So I don't know where Mishka falls, how much ass he's sniffing. But, you know, don't let it be that something happens and, you know, cause it's.

• 56:56Rich Roll?

  Well, as human beings, pain is our, you know, pain is our, is our motivator. You know what I mean? Like that's really what gets people to truly change.

• 57:04Mishka Shubaly?

  When, when I, um, when I quit drinking, like the winter before I quit drinking, I alternated, you know, quitting for two weeks or 10 days and then going off the rails. And then I, you know, I would stretch out, oh, I almost made it three weeks that time. So, you know, if I was you, I would give up on me and just write me off as a lost cause. But, but knowing, uh, knowing, having had that experience of having to try it a little bit where there was nothing at stake and tried a little bit where there was nothing at stake. And then finally I was like, all right, I'm ready to make the plunge, like never again, you know?

• 57:38Rich Roll?

  Well, it's a difference between holding on and surrender. Like when you're doing that 10 days, you know, whatever, you're still holding on to the idea that like maybe you can control it or that you can still enjoy it when you want to or at times versus just completely letting it go, like just saying, I'm done.

• 57:57Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, a lot of times that takes something, it takes a great, yeah, a greater like fear of death to overcome that fear of surrender.

• 58:06John Joseph?

  Well, the other thing too is the, you know, if you look at the way the whole subtle body and, you know, is set up, you have the mind, the intelligence, the ego, and then the senses. So the intelligence is supposed to be fixed up in knowledge so that the senses don't dictate to you, you know, the sense of the tongue, sari da vidhijao, the tongue is the most, in Bengali, it means the tongue is the most voracious and difficult to control. But if you bring the tongue under control, you can control all the other senses. So, the way that that happens is you fix up your intelligence. I think you, you need to do more research and really understand this shit, that it's

• 58:48John Joseph?

  not like, oh, I'll just do this for, you know, for 10 days or whatever. Like, my path, and that's why I know it works, is I did so much research, I sat there like a motherfucking college student researching this shit. I fucking read anything that came my way philosophically and dietarily. I studied everything. I would go fucking see Victorius Kovinsky speak in fucking, you know, 1981 at Integral Yoga Institute. I would listen to Gary Noel in a fucking burnt-out squat with Puerto Ricans fucking pulling guns trying to take our shit, and I'm sitting in there with a candle listening to Gary Noel on a fucking, you know, AM/FM little fucking handheld radio, and take notes.

• 59:32John Joseph?

  And, I think like, when you really fix up your intelligence and you read books like Thrive and Rich Roll's book and The China Study and all these different books that really are fucking, just fucking dead on, you can't argue with it. So like, the intelligent thing to do is just surrender to it. That's what life is about, is surrendering the false ego and all these false concepts, and saying like, yo, that's what I had to do. I was so, such a street, like, nobody could tell me nothing, and I challenged every single thing that...

• 1:00:08John Joseph?

  Uh, came my way, even all of that stuff with the food and the spirituality. But at some point, only a fool will continue to go on his, you know, his misbeliefs. When you know you're wrong and you're fucking stubborn, then you're a fool. That's what I say. So I, when I got defeated philosophically, I surrendered to what it was, which was the higher knowledge. You know, whether it was spiritually or diet or anything, I was like, alright. And then, you know, you're using your body as a lab and I'm like, holy shit, this food makes me feel great. Chanting and meditating and going to yoga makes me feel fucking great. I don't wanna feel fucked up no more, you know?

• 1:00:52John Joseph?

  And that's where the changes come. When you get to that point, then it's like, alright, it's time for some surrender. And that's the false ego. That's the last thing we hold on to is the false ego that I'm God, nobody could tell me nothing. That's the last hinge of Maya. The illusion is to think that way and not accept any outside, you know, information. And like, somebody else could have it and you don't. Like, okay, somebody else gave me the answers and we're right on, and that's why I surrendered to it.

• 1:01:27Mishka Shubaly?

  As, as much as I love the title of the book, that's the shortcoming of it is that you're a really intelligent, sensitive, perceptive guy and you've done a shitload of homework. You're a really, you're a really smart dude and you've done a ton of research and uh...

• 1:01:43John Joseph?

  That's why I always fuck with them and I'm like, they call me a misogynist and I'm like, misogynist? They're like, you're sexist. I'm like, yeah, I know, it's sexy, ain't it? Like, I try to play stupid, cuz like, that's what the fuck they think I am. They think I'm an idiot.

• 1:01:58Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:58John Joseph?

  And like, who is this fucking moron? But...

• 1:02:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but don't you wanna just put him down?

• 1:02:03John Joseph?

  No, because I fuck with him a little bit and then I drag him in. It's like taking somebody out to the deep water and then you fucking like put him in a fucking chokehold and fucking drown him intellectually.

• 1:02:15Mishka Shubaly?

  The drunken school of combat.

• 1:02:16John Joseph?

  I like fucking with him a little bit and then I fucking drop the hammer on him, you know? With a good fucking knee to their face. You know, theoretically, not like, you know, I would actually.

• 1:02:29Mishka Shubaly?

  A conceptual knee to their face.

• 1:02:30John Joseph?

  I wouldn't actually like, you know, combat. But I have had motherfuckers be like, I'll fuck you up. And I'm like, alright, you live in Brooklyn, motherfucker, you're talking shit. I know a gym, let's go. We're gonna do a whole motherfucking triathlon run, we'll go do fucking CrossFit and then we'll get in the ring. And then I never heard back from them. But I don't try to challenge motherfuckers like that, because it's like, you'll be fighting all, you know, I kinda tell my.

• 1:02:55Mishka Shubaly?

  Wait, that wasn't the email you sent to Rich?

• 1:02:57John Joseph?

  Nah. Motherfucker, you don't answer me, alright, fuck you, wait till I see you at the seed.

• 1:03:04Rich Roll?

  On his third appearance on the podcast. You guys are the only people to do it three times, I think.

• 1:03:10John Joseph?

  Holy shit.

• 1:03:11Rich Roll?

  Oh, maybe Julie. Yeah, Julie for sure.

• 1:03:13Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, hopefully I can get a, I can get a date out of this one.

• 1:03:15Rich Roll?

  No, listen, so, so, yeah.

• 1:03:19Rich Roll?

  That's a whole other podcast.

• 1:03:20John Joseph?

  Motherfucker, the only date you're getting is with the fucking dude that's gonna do the colonic on your ass.

• 1:03:25Mishka Shubaly?

  If you guys try and turn this into a fucking plant power intervention.

• 1:03:29John Joseph?

  This is an intervention, motherfucker.

• 1:03:30Mishka Shubaly?

  I'm gonna fight my way out, I can see the door.

• 1:03:33Rich Roll?

  But I think you are gonna have a hard time after this session when you go to your next meal.

• 1:03:39Mishka Shubaly?

  I hate this, every time I hang out with you guys, then for the next 18 hours, I'm just, I'm like, my head is fucked. I have to, uh, yeah, it's, it hurts, it hurts my brain.

• 1:03:48John Joseph?

  Rich Rolls Podcast builds brain cells, you heard it here first. You can't stay stuck on stupid, Mishka.

• 1:03:56Mishka Shubaly?

  Stuck on stupid will be the title of my next book.

• 1:04:11Rich Roll?

  So, you know, we're always either growing or we're regressing. There's no stasis, right? And like, whether it's diet, or fitness, or your own personal evolution, it's always in flux and you're always, you know, kind of learning new things and honing and changing. So, in the four years since, since the initial publication of Meat is for Pussies, like, what are the, what's, how are you different, or how have you changed or grown, or what have you learned in the process of rewriting this book that's kind of more expanded than where you were in 2010?

• 1:04:42John Joseph?

  Well, I started doing Ironmans just to really, like, challenge myself for, you really discover a lot about yourself doing that shit. So, I got into that, you know, reading your book and then, you know, all the other stuff. Just, like, it, you know, tried to grow myself, you know, personally, and really challenge myself and push myself with, whether it's writing, you know, a pilot, or for a TV show, or a film, or, you know, and I, I think, you know, the other thing really is to really

• 1:05:25John Joseph?

  reach out and try to help as many people as I can, because that's one of the things that, as putting out, you know, my Evolution of a Crow Magnum, which was my first, the memoir in 2007, now it just got put on, if you go on now, purepma.com, we, actually the audiobook is there, and it's on Kindle.

• 1:05:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I noticed it's, that, I just saw that the other day, and I was like, "Oh, I didn't know it was on Kindle."

• 1:05:54John Joseph?

  Yeah, that just happened.

• 1:05:55Rich Roll?

  Because people were always saying it was sold out.

• 1:05:56John Joseph?

  It is, I mean, and, and these motherfuckers that are trying to sell it for a thousand dollars, and, "We're gonna reissue that book, it's just, there's a screenplay based on it, so we don't wanna, you know, whatever." But, don't pay fucking, don't even pay more than twenty-five dollars for the fucking book.

• 1:06:13Rich Roll?

  But you can get it on Kindle now, anyway, right?

• 1:06:14John Joseph?

  You can get it on Kindle, yeah, you can download it for like, a few dollars, like, whatever.

• 1:06:18Mishka Shubaly?

  And, it's phenomenal. It is like our Huckleberry Finn, or something like that. I mean, it's really, it, John, it's a massive book.

• 1:06:26John Joseph?

  Thank you, man, and, you know, the thing was, is like, I wrote that book... As a way to deal with my demons, but also to let people know that they, maybe they're going through some stuff. You know, that they ain't alone. A lot of people, very like, like, I hate to say the word, but a lot of kind of well-known, famous artists and musicians and everything wrote me fucking personal emails, like, because I run in a lot of circles, like actors and fucking musicians and a lot of well-known people and were like, dude, I had that same things happen to me and like fucking the courage to come out and fucking, you know.

• 1:07:07John Joseph?

  So what that's done and this first issue of Media's for Pussies is really, it's opened up channels of communication with a lot of people. So I try to reach people on so many different levels to help them, you know, out of compassion, because I really feel, you know, that's my job here on this planet is to pay forward. And like the article in Thrive that's coming out, that's what I said, I call, if you get some gifts in this world, man, and, you know, a- and you've been helped by others, it's your fucking duty to turn around and try to help the next person. And that's why after they, they talk to me and I answered every email, every

• 1:07:52John Joseph?

  message on Facebook or whatever. And it's like, you know, they try, they really see where I'm coming from. I'm not judging them. There's a lot of motherfuckers that could kick my ass that eat meat. I'm not really calling them pussies that way. I'm saying like, you know, let's all wake up as the human species and they see where I'm coming from. So that's one of the main things is i- it's made me um, kind of be a lot more out there in the public to be able to reach people, like Vice hitting me up to, you know, putting that thing on.

• 1:08:30Rich Roll?

  Right, I mean, I mean, I think there's a, there's a, there's, there's a couple of different ways to be of service and now as you're kind of, you know, your star is rising, so to speak, you can do that on a mass level through Vice or these other like media outlets. But I think what doesn't, what people don't really Know about you, or don't know enough about you, is the extent to which you're devoted to that one-on-one, human interaction type of service. I mean, every time I call you, or I text you, you're like, "I'm running out, I gotta go feed this guy," or "I'm helping this person," or you're always like, basically, you're, it seems like, you wake up every day, and you're like, "Where am I being of service today?" And that's like, your priority over whatever it is you felt like you wanted to do that day.

• 1:09:12John Joseph?

  Yeah, well, that's, you know, Acharya means one who leads by example, so when Prabhupada crossed two oceans to come to America, and at seventy-something years old, to help people, like, you know, that's the example, that's what we should all be doing. If we, you know, this society is just becoming so cutthroat, and dog-eat-dog, and about competition, and all of this shit, but if people just stopped and helped the next person in line, man, we could start flip this whole planet, all this shit that's going on. But the powers that be, in terms of like, it's divide and conquer, and that's what they want. They don't want

• 1:09:52John Joseph?

  the people getting together and working together in harmony, and, and trying to, you know, cure the ills of society. Prisons are being traded on motherfucking Wall Street. They need to have those prisons filled. And there was this, there was this magazine, Sacha, which means "The Mode of Goodness," and they interviewed this dude who's doing twenty-five to life, and he became a vegan in prison. And he said, "If I had," and he Buddhist, and he said, "If I had access to this knowledge, I would never be where I am right now," African-American dude, "I wouldn't be in here." But he changed his whole life in prison, and became a vegan in prison, plant-based, doesn't eat any animals or animal products, and he's, and he became a Buddhist. So I feel...

• 1:10:38John Joseph?

  That like I go speak at high schools now anytime somebody asked me to do something, go speak at a high school or go do the family dinner nights with Candle 79 Healthy School uh food program, I'm there because I know how important it is to reach the younger generation now and give them the knowledge that was given to me when I was their age and and what I've been able to do with my life, playing music and all the people that inspired me, the bad brains and all these such amazing positive people, you know, that I've been able to get in contact with. And I think it's like it's our duty to turn around and like pay that

• 1:11:20John Joseph?

  forward and go help the next people in line. Go out there and feed the homeless people in the streets of New York, plant-based, organic meals and all the other stuff. I mean, you know, it it's like this is giving me facility to do more and more, which is, you know, what I want to do. I kept a yoga center open for 10 years and paid for it and built it with my own two hands and it helped a lot of people. We fed the homeless at the park, like all kinds of stuff. So that's what I'm looking to do with, you know, what's happening now, you know, with these good, you know, you put good energy out into the universe and it and it comes back. And, you know, philanthropically, I think it's

• 1:12:01John Joseph?

  just so important to, you know, even my mother was like, you could have fucking owned a house in Westchester with every, and I'm like, yeah, but ma, look at all the beautiful things that's come to my life by keeping that yoga center open. And she's like, you're absolutely right. Yeah. I said, there's a lot of motherfucking miserable people in scars there with million dollar houses. I'm a happy motherfucker.

• 1:12:22Rich Roll?

  You would be one of them. I can't see you in Westchester.

• 1:12:27John Joseph?

  I'd be battling with everybody on my block. You motherfucker. Get off my lawn. Your barbecue fucking meat smokes coming into my fucking window, you motherfucker.

• 1:12:36Rich Roll?

  So, so, yeah, let me just ask this one question that's been on my mind, which is, you know, you you're outspoken about the Monsanto's of the world and talking about GMOs and, you know, how we're in this healthcare crisis and, you know, whether it's the themes of cowspiracy and we're destroying the planet and all of this. When you look at all of that and then you look at kind of how you're touching people through what you're doing, does that leave you feeling optimistic about our future? Or, you know, how do you, you know, where do you see this going? Like, where do you see us in 20 years?

• 1:13:08John Joseph?

  I mean, I think the planet as a whole, like, is really, you know, it's said even in the Vedas that this is the golden age, the age of Aquarius, of awareness. So as much negativity as is being put out there by the people who are controlling the media and controlling this and controlling the food, there's also this huge, massive movement of consciousness. And that's what I try to look towards, and I see it growing. People are becoming educated about, you know, one of the biggest labels that consumers now look for is the non-GMO label, non-GMO project label.

• 1:13:50John Joseph?

  That is one of the biggest labels that everybody, people are starting to catch on, that fucking GMOs, you know, these companies are owned by fucking drug companies, like, it's not a conspiracy, it's fucking money. It's if they can get you sick eating this shit, then you're gonna have to buy their meds. Watch the idiot cycle, I always say, wa, follow the money. So, I really do try to see the glass as half-full instead of half-empty. I look to, like, dudes that are, that were like, you know, basically even worse than me, like, yo, blood clot, let me ask you something about the fucking genetically modified, uh,

• 1:14:34John Joseph?

  you know, fucking shit that's going down in Hawaii right now, like, like, the dudes that are coming to me now are like, it's getting through. It's getting through the thick as a brick motherfuckers too, like, it's, you know, you, because, the thing is, is like, this message is not going to get out on fucking Fox News. You know, they're gonna make you look like a, they're gonna try to make you look like some wackadoo conspiracy motherfucker. But you know who I just talked to, Eric Nies, uh, the guy that was on Rockin' Jock and all that shit, he's a big raw foods dude? Look at what the fuck is going on in Hawaii right now. You want evidence, go there.

• 1:15:14John Joseph?

  Go, these motherfuckers are spraying near schools their GMO crops, wearing full-on hazmat suits. Hawaii is the testing ground right now for ground zero of GMO and growing the perfect fucking GMO seeds where they can take control. Of the world's food supply.

• 1:15:34Rich Roll?

  And it really is, it is the battleground right now politically for all of this. Because that is the one place where people are actually organized and they're rallying and they've had enough of this. And, you know, we, we're distracted, right?

• 1:15:49John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Rich Roll?

  Dancing with the, whatever it is, video games, movies, like, what, you know, like, most of America, like, we just, we, it takes a lot to get us excited about anything to, to get off our butt, right? But in Hawaii, this is the issue. This is, they're really up in arms about this and they are taking to the streets in mass quantities.

• 1:16:10John Joseph?

  It's unfucking believable and I think everybody needs to pay attention because that is the fucking, that's ground zero for this whole issue. Right now, what's going on in Hawaii? And I know people that are on the fucking ground over there.

• 1:16:24Rich Roll?

  So do I.

• 1:16:24John Joseph?

  That are telling me.

• 1:16:25Rich Roll?

  I just had dinner with one the other night, he was telling me all about what's going on.

• 1:16:28John Joseph?

  Yo, their shit is not growing because of the fucking chemtrails that they're spraying over there, uh, to fucking stop. They're putting so much aluminum and all this other shit into the soil that they patented an aluminum resistant fucking seed. They're, they're bombarding those islands with fucking GMOs and all these chemicals and all this shit. Because it's an enclosed ecosystem, so they can really test.

• 1:16:54Rich Roll?

  It's a perfect Petri dish.

• 1:16:56John Joseph?

  Exactly.

• 1:16:56Rich Roll?

  For testing all of their stuff.

• 1:16:58John Joseph?

  Exactly what it is. And there's now all these kids and all these, uh, people are coming down with all of these health problems. Because like, these guys are out there spraying like a hundred yards from a school.

• 1:17:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, blows over the schoolyards.

• 1:17:12John Joseph?

  And they're wearing fucking hazmat suits from head to toe, respirators, everything. Like, yo, you're eating that shit? You're letting that go into the atmosphere, into the soil? They're poisoning the fucking rivers, the estuaries, the oceans, everything over there now with this shit. It's fucking crazy and I'm fucking paying attention to this shit because the GMO shit is the, that's the real fucking new world order, motherfuckers. They know if they can control the food, they can control the fucking people and that's what they're trying to fucking do. And it, you know, you really have to pay attention to what the fuck is going on. This is a huge issue. Don't think it's some fucking hippie fucking dude, you know, with Birkenstocks and a Grateful Dead shirt,

• 1:17:56John Joseph?

  fucking protesting outside of a fucking health food store. This is real families and they ain't fucking vegan and they ain't plant-based, but what that shit's doing to them, they're out there fucking protesting against it and they're being affected by it.

• 1:18:10Rich Roll?

  Mishka?

• 1:18:12Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, and, yeah. No, I mean, I mean Hawaii's got massive problems without that as well. The compressed population, the divide between the locals and the tourist industry.

• 1:18:27Rich Roll?

  But this issue has them, has them united, you know, they're like in a united front on this one. So it's

• 1:18:33John Joseph?

  Absolutely, man. It's bringing all the people together. And the growers are like, dude, we have had to switch to,

• 1:18:42John Joseph?

  we've had to switch to this GMO fucking seeds because our shit will not fucking grow because of what they're spraying in the atmosphere that's coming down. You know, everyone looks at that chemtrail shit too, like, that's what that shit is doing, man. They are fucking taking control of the food supply to stop you from growing fucking organic food. And if they can do that, then you have, that's, that's the last snare because they're saying, okay, how do we stop these motherfuckers from not using our product? Well, let's just go up and spray fucking a bunch of shit all over their crops so it don't grow. And they gotta buy our seed. Pay attention to that shit, dude.

• 1:19:23John Joseph?

  There's a whole thing on what in the world are they spraying about the fucking chemtrail issue in the GMOs in Hawaii? And that's how they're fucking cutting you off by your, they're cutting your fucking air supply off.

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  There are a lot of people though, that, that would say, I'm with you until you get to the chemtrails part and then you're losing me.

• 1:19:43John Joseph?

  Dude, it's no, what they're doing with that, with the chemtrail stuff is, if you look, they patented an aluminum resistant seed. What's some of the main, they're coming up with these chemicals all over the planet. The aluminum oxide, all this different stuff. And what that does is change the pH of the soil. So the only thing that can grow in that soil, just like when they spray Roundup. What grows, the only thing that's, everything else will be killed except the stuff that's bred genetically to resist fucking Roundup. So now, why did they come out with a fucking aluminum resistant seed in 2009? If you talk to the people of what the fuck they're spraying over the Hawaiian Islands,

• 1:20:27John Joseph?

  that's one of the things my friends are telling me too, is they bombard that fucking place with those chemicals. So, it is the Petri dish. That's, that's what they are spraying all over there. And, and, and the chemicals they're using now, because what happens is, you know, these pathogens and everything else, they're, eventually, they're gonna become resistant to fucking Roundup. Now they're coming out with these whole next level of chemicals that are so fucking poisonous. It's like, it's Agent Orange. They told this one guy in this uh, video that I watched, you have Agent Orange poisoning. It's, you know, from the chemicals that they're spraying onto the crops. It's crazy.

• 1:21:11Mishka Shubaly?

  I know my silence has been deafening here. Um, it's because I'm totally ignorant about this. I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna say anything stupid. Maybe we can put together like a end notes to this podcast for other people who might be as ignorant as me of other resources to check out, to, to find out about this.

• 1:21:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, John's got a whole reading list and a documentary list, right?

• 1:21:34John Joseph?

  I, I mean, I definitely-

• 1:21:35Mishka Shubaly?

  I mean, that would be awesome for me.

• 1:21:38John Joseph?

  I mean, I definitely say eh that people should uh definitely check out the world according to Monsanto. Genetic roulette, what in the world are they spraying?

• 1:21:49Rich Roll?

  Genetic roulette's the big one.

• 1:21:51John Joseph?

  Genetic roulette, Jeffrey Smith, man, he's got fucking scientists. And it's so funny because like I had some, I I had some dude attacking me on on on uh on Facebook and then I go on his fucking page and do a little research and guess who he fucking worked for? Fucking Monsanto. He's like, you're just stating all of this evidence that there's no proof and Jeffrey Smith is a is a kook. You know, and all this other stuff. But, you know, there's a lot of scientists right now that are like, yo, this is really, really becoming a fucking big issue. So there's a lot of documentaries and that's why I say also to watch The Idiot Cycle, which is a great documentary because the woman follows the money.

• 1:22:36John Joseph?

  She's like, race for the cure for this, race, race for this, race for that. Why don't somebody find out why the hell we're getting sick? And she follows all the money of all of these chemical companies that are putting out all these, you know, home cleaning products and, you know, cancerous car uh things in diapers of children and just like dioxins and like just crazy stuff and when you start following the money back, where does that, where does it lead to? It it leads to, people wanna profit off of you getting sick and that's disgusting. And if you live this lifestyle where, you know, you you just really stop and

• 1:23:18John Joseph?

  put all the poison out of your home, out of your children's diet, out of your diet. You know, there's still gonna be environmental issues, but that you're gonna be getting polluted with. But I mean, you'll be cutting down ninety percent of, you know, crap from your life and that's what people need to do.

• 1:23:37Rich Roll?

  Right, I mean, a good example that I think everyone can relate to uh is just looking at antibiotics, right? So if you look at antibiotics, pretty much the antibiotics that a doctor will prescribe you if you're sick are pretty much the same antibiotics when we were kids, right? It's like amoxicillin or penicillin, you know, like these, it hasn't changed that much. And That's because, from what I understand, who is the author of that book? I can't remember right now, it's escaping me. But essentially, the idea is that there isn't that much money in developing new antibiotics. There's a lot more money in developing drugs that people have to take their whole life,

• 1:24:21Rich Roll?

  rather than once a year or twice a year when they get sick. So it's the Lipitor's and those kind of drugs where all the money is going into. And there's so much money involved in that, and such huge financial vested interests in that, that, you know, why are we surprised when somebody proposes the idea that it might be a disincentive to try to prevent people from getting sick? You know what I mean?

• 1:24:49John Joseph?

  Right, exactly. Like, they told my boy, "Oh, you're gonna be on these cholesterol medications," and, you know, he had, he was getting Crohn's and all this other shit, just a slew of fucking problems. And I'm like, "Dude, that's a bunch of bullshit." The doctor was telling him straight up. And then he listened to everything I told him, right? And this is a true story. This is, this is from a friend of mine, Googie from The Misfits. He had, he cured himself, first of all, of fucking cancer, okay? He's a cancer survivor. He went on raw foods, no processed foods. The fucking doctor told him, "You're gonna be..." Because what happened was, all the drugs that they gave him in the beginning, it started really fucking him up.

• 1:25:34John Joseph?

  And he went off of them. And I was like, "Arthur, you don't need to do all that shit." And then that shit gave him, like, you know, those drugs all have side effects. It's a domino effect, and that's what they want. You know, this, this cholesterol lowering medication's gonna fuck with the enzyme levels in your liver. Then you're gonna take a drug for that. And it just goes on and on and on. And I said, "Dude, you do not need to take all of that shit. I'm telling you right now, here's what you gotta do." And he followed it to the letter of the fucking law. And you know what he did? 'Cause he's such a New York motherfucking badass. He went back and he said, "You know what? Fuck you." And he fucking threw all the fucking pills in the doctor's face. He's like, "I'm all for all of it, you motherfucker. You're telling me I can't do something?"

• 1:26:17John Joseph?

  And he's the type of dude that, he was like me. He comes, you know, he's a fucking rough, fucking dude. And when somebody tells him... There's no way you're gonna be able to do it. That's a challenge to him.

• 1:26:29Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:29John Joseph?

  And he was like, took up the fucking challenge and he's healthy to this day. You know, and he stopped eating all the processed, you know, he was doing the vegetarian thing, you know, not caring about GMOs and fucking eating dairy and doing all the other shit. Not caring if there was some fucking shit in his pasta or whatever the fuck, you know? And he cleaned up his whole shit. And went raw a lot and got juicing and everything he ate was whole food, plant-based, organic. And cured up every issue he had.

• 1:27:01Rich Roll?

  Hmm. So when some guy comes up to you who's, you know, lifelong barbecue-loving guy and he's like, hey, you know, one of those guys that comes up to you, you know, later in life, searching for a little bit of the answers. Um, I mean, what do you, what's the first thing that you would say to somebody like that? Who's trying to dip their toe in the, in the water, but like, isn't so sure yet? Like, if you just go, dude, you gotta get up all that shit. You gotta just start juicing. Like, if you, it's too much, right?

• 1:27:29John Joseph?

  You know what I say to them? How long did it take you to take a shit this morning? It took me thirty seconds, motherfucker. He's like, like twenty minutes, dude. Nah, but I just say, start small. And the starting of the small is the elimination. You start eliminating all, all, you know, because if you're trying to light the fire of health, you don't throw water on it. So like, prior to even getting the dude to, I'm like, alright, let's sit down and analyze what, what the fu- Cause that's what they always ask me, what do you eat every day? And I tell them. And they're like, oh shit dude, like, you know, cause it always comes down to, what do you eat? Salads. And I'm like, what the fuck do you eat?

• 1:28:13John Joseph?

  Like, you know, dude, you, you had fucking like Mickey D's and Kentucky Fried Chicken three times this week. And so I start telling them, I analyze what it is they're eating, how they're living. And I say, yo, maybe try to- You know, eliminate some of this stuff and add some good stuff and you'll start to see positive results. Do a test, go three days and see how you feel just doing it this way. And they're like, yo, I felt great, I had more energy. It took me three minutes to shit instead of 25, like, you know, and it's like, that's one of the other things is that your body starts to detox from all the bad stuff.

• 1:28:58John Joseph?

  And like, people give this up because one dude followed it and then like, after like 10 days, he's like, dude, I got fevers, I got fucking boils coming, all this shit. I'm like, dude, your body is eliminating the shit, your colon's fucking cleaning out, your fucking, your blood is cleansing, it has to get rid of the toxins, where's the fuck's it's supposed to go? It has to go somewhere, stick with it, it will pass. And that's what happens, they, and then they push, they push through, but that's one of the things I love that you say is you have to meet people where they're at. Rich, Rich, you always say that. I try to meet people where they're at. And that's the practical application of this whole thing.

• 1:29:41John Joseph?

  If you try to like, give people too much in the beginning, they're not gonna be able to like, stick with it, it's too drastic of a change for them, you know? But you try to just work with them where they're at and then push them along a little bit. You have to challenge yourself, that's, like I said, that's, I needed challenges myself. Even though I've been challenged in so many ways, I'm like, that's why I started getting into triathlon. Alright, you know, I wanna do the fucking Spartan death race at some point. I wanna continue to challenge myself, you know, to push myself because that's, you know, what it's all about. It's just like, that's one of the things with Harper Collins.

• 1:30:23John Joseph?

  Every time they gave me a deadline to get something done for this book, I had it done fucking a week before. Because that's really, you know, how I try to live my life is to not procrastinate and put shit off. And that's what you're doing. You're sticking your head in the fucking sand and you're procrastinating and you're thinking it ain't gonna fucking happen to you. If you.

• 1:30:46Mishka Shubaly?

  Don't, don't look at Rich when you're saying this. Look at me.

• 1:30:50John Joseph?

  Cause we been down this road.

• 1:30:51Rich Roll?

  And I know you don't procrastinate because when I was writing, when I was, when you asked me to write something for your book, you were on me every day. I'm like, dude, don't, I gotta cover.

• 1:31:02John Joseph?

  I was on you like stink on shit.

• 1:31:04Rich Roll?

  Dude, just so you know, you got four days left. I'm like, dude, relax. It will be done.

• 1:31:08John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Mishka Shubaly?

  One, one thing I wanted to ask you about the book is that on the cover, it's targeted to men. You know, one of the things that I really see is that we, on the one hand, we have like Ray Romano, you know, the sort of like eunuch who's just henpecked and then on the other.

• 1:31:25John Joseph?

  I love Ray Romano.

• 1:31:26Mishka Shubaly?

  No, no, no. Listen, hear me out, hear me out. And then on the other, you know, the other side, we see like The Rock or Aaron Hernandez, this like, you know, this sort of like wild man, um, this cartoon of manhood, you know, but I really feel like there's a crisis of manhood right now that, that boys don't know how to become men. And a lot of times what we do is we, we see alcohol as a shortcut to toughness or being violent as a shortcut to toughness and toughness as part of being a man, being an adult, being a grown up. Why, do you agree with any of that? Do you think that's bullshit? I mean, why did you target the book towards dudes?

• 1:32:05John Joseph?

  Because I think dudes are fucking sleeping with their health. If you go, you know, if you go to a lot of the vegetarian restaurants and the organic and the higher consciousness, the yoga spots and everything, I think like 80% of that shit is women. The women are way more ahead of the fucking curve than the dudes. And the dudes are always thinking, it's gonna make me a fucking pussy, you know, I'm not trying to be some yoga wimp or, you know, if I don't eat fucking meat, like just all of those questions. So I just tried to, it's just like this dude, Joe the Fireman, you know? He's like, yo, I never would have fucking listened to this comment. Like the way you hit it on this tone,

• 1:32:49John Joseph?

  you know, and I think that.

• 1:32:53John Joseph?

  It's coming from a dude who is a dude. I'm a fucking, I'm a dude, you know? It's like, I'm not a fucking like, you know, fucking emo motherfucker. It's like, you know, I mean, my background and everything.

• 1:33:06Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, you speak that language.

• 1:33:07John Joseph?

  I speak that language and that's what was needed for the longest time, was somebody communicating with them on their level. And I think like, I always try to tell people to be compassionate and to care and all that is not a weak quality. I know some people who are the toughest motherfuckers on the face of the earth, right? Special forces people, all these dudes that I know in my life, and they're some of the most compassionate, thoughtful, amazing people towards other people.

• 1:33:42Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, cuz they understand the value of it.

• 1:33:44John Joseph?

  I just think like this whole mentality that we have to, you know, you see these dudes, these fucking dudes walking around in New York with these faces like, it's all, they're all paper tigers, man. That's what I call them. They're fucking paper tigers. They feel they have to fucking like, wear this tough face walking around New York all the time, like, you know, like they're some kind of badass. I mean, you know, what did Joe Frazier say? What's the most peaceful room? A room full of fucking fighters. They got nothing to prove.

• 1:34:12Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, it's a job.

• 1:34:13John Joseph?

  So it's like, dude, it's not, like, it doesn't make you, if you're fu- if you're a fucking pussy, you're a pussy. A fucking hamburger ain't gonna make you tough. A fucking beer ain't gonna make you tough.

• 1:34:23Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:23John Joseph?

  It's...

• 1:34:24Rich Roll?

  But I think, I think what, what Mishka is getting at is, i- i- is really an interesting issue, which is, we are in this time where it's confusing for men, like, we don't know, like, are we supposed to be like the sensitive guy? Are we supposed to be the macho guy? We're get- we get mixed signals and, you know, maybe, you know, we weren't given proper direction growing up and, and I think that, that leaves, uh, leaves a lot of people sort of scrambling and afraid. And when you're afraid, then you're gonna default to, oh, what's gonna, you know, there's this-

• 1:34:55Mishka Shubaly?

  To the worst shit possible.

• 1:34:57Rich Roll?

  Well, there's this grasping for what is gonna define me as masculine. And somewhere in the evolution of our, you know, of our race, we became ingrained with this idea that, you know, eating meat is associated with manhood in a certain way, for better or worse. And so overcoming that, or even combating, or even talking about that paradigm, it gets really tricky.

• 1:35:20John Joseph?

  I agree, and I think like not fa- fear is due to ignorance and I think like my whole thing has always been face to face my fears. You know, even when I wrote the evolution of a crow magnon like admitting that, you know, fucking motherfuckers was molesting me when I was a kid in in foster homes and everything else. That shit was like I didn't, I kept fucking coming back to that. That issue putting that in my book took took took months of like me fucking having to go back and do rewrites because I was like, you know, fear of embarrassment or fear of whatever the fuck. And the whole thing is is like, you know.

• 1:35:59Mishka Shubaly?

  And writing that episode of vulnerability is probably the toughest thing that you ever did.

• 1:36:03John Joseph?

  Yeah, it really is. I'm I'm I'm not bullshitting you. There was times where I literally would sit at my computer and have a a fucking sobbing breakdown for fucking a half hour where and then just have to stop writing and then be like, oh, I can't put this in. And then like, you know, but the whole thing is is I think as a as a species, we're learning to communicate better with each other and, you know, uh, to say like, yo, it's cool. You know, I mean, I'll take, for instance, uh, some of these guys that are coming back from the war and these some of these dudes are seals, green berets, seeing their buddies. And they're fucking, right now, they're getting so fucking, they're taking these fucking medications

• 1:36:48John Joseph?

  and all this shit for depression and everything. And these guys are the toughest motherfuckers on the face of the earth. And they're fucking going like, bro, it's okay, like, you know, like, this is what we're going through and we gotta push through it and help each other. And I think rather than, you know, you you Pete, some of these men kind of see it as a sign of weakness and then they make fun of you or whatever the fuck. It's like, I just think, to me, I'm just like, when I see somebody suffering, I'm not trying to like put that person down. I wanna reach out to them and say, yo, man, I know, I've been there. And I think that's why even the evolution of a crow magnon is become like this underground

• 1:37:31John Joseph?

  cult fucking book that everybody either listened to the audio or read it or whatever and they're like, it's having an effect because it's like people know I put my fucking heart on those pages. And I think, you know, as men.

• 1:37:47John Joseph?

  Why shouldn't we have compassion and cry and like dudes that are like, you know, afraid to show their emotions or whatever. It's like, I think that's part of being a human being, man, you know?

• 1:38:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, that then you just, you said it afraid, it's fear, right? So I think, I think that the most underappreciated and, and, you know, under-recognized aspect of what it means to be truly strong is to have, is to have that compassion. And you look at the great leaders of, you know, throughout history. You have the ruthless, you know, dictators, of course, but the greatest leaders of all time were ones that also exercised the greatest compassion.

• 1:38:25John Joseph?

  Exactly.

• 1:38:25Rich Roll?

  And, and somewhere that gets thrown under the bus as part of what it means to be a man. But that's the, I think that's the crucial defining aspect of being truly strong, because it shows you're completely secure in who you are, right? Like, it's not a threat to you to extend yourself to another who is weaker than yourself.

• 1:38:45John Joseph?

  Yeah, I mean, like, I'd rather lift someone up than step on them. You know, it's like, that's how I look at it. And I'm like, you know, it's, I mean, that's coming back to the book. That's why I wrote the book. Cause I, I, I put my own experiences in there and it's helping people. I don't care what the vegans got to fucking say. The politically correct fucking vegans with a fucking 10-foot pole up their ass. Fuck them. I could give a fuck less about them. I'm not fucking writing my shit for them. I don't even give a fuck. I mean, you know, I'm trying to help the person that needs the fucking help.

• 1:39:27John Joseph?

  You know, and however it is that I get to reach those people, if it works, like I said, if the book even affects one person's life and helps them, then it did its job.

• 1:39:38Rich Roll?

  Well, I'm pretty sure you're already past that.

• 1:39:40John Joseph?

  I'll take all the fucking criticism. But like, you know, I'm not gonna change who the fuck I am. This is who I am. And, you know, I'm not gonna change the tone of what I do for TV or a publisher or anybody.

• 1:39:56Rich Roll?

  So on that note, I want to switch gears a little bit. We're kind of having this post-punk Algonquin table situation here. You know, it's like, all three of us have written books, all three of us are endurance athletes, all three of us are sober. You know, there's a lot of like, commonality in this room, although I'm overwhelmingly under-tattooed. So you guys might be taking me to the tattoo parlor after this.

• 1:40:21Mishka Shubaly?

  If I go plant-powered, me and JJ get to pick out a tattoo for you.

• 1:40:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so Julie, if I come home with a tattoo, it's not my fault. On his neck. Yeah. On my neck, right.

• 1:40:31Mishka Shubaly?

  That just says, "Hire me."

• 1:40:35Rich Roll?

  But, uh, yeah, I want to take this opportunity because I have, you know, you know, guys that, both of you guys, I just, you know, there's so much that I share in common with you guys. This idea of, um, of athleticism and creativity. And John, we talked about this on the phone the other day. Like, one of the things that I struggle with, my whole life, I always thought, either you're an athlete, you can be an athlete, or you can be like, a creative type, like, an artist type, but you can't be both of those things. Like, you gotta pick one, right? Like, how do those two worlds meet? And that, yet, all three of us here, we're all athletes, and we're all creative people, and we're all trying to balance those two different passions.

• 1:41:17Rich Roll?

  And for me, it's hard, a lot of times. Like, I want to like, train, I want to put all my energy into like, being the best I can, you know, physically for sport. And then I want to put my butt in a chair, and I want to write, and like, write, do the best writing that I can. But I like to lose myself in those two worlds. And it's difficult for me, leading a busy life and trying to like, do both of those things at the same time. So I'm interested in both of you guys, like, how you handle that and what you think about that.

• 1:41:48Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, ideally, they can speak to each other, you know, that, that, uh, you know, both writing and training, there's a finite limit that you can do. I mean, one of the, you know, one of the best things that I, writer's block is great motivation for going on a long run. You write until, you know, until you're melting down, until you're like, "I can't fucking deal with this anymore. I can't stare at this screen anymore. I can't sit inside anymore." Then you go like, "Wah!" Go out and like, just blow it out on a long run. And when you're on that run... Your brain starts working again, the blood's flowing, you know, your heart's pumping and you you'll come back and like if you don't sit down that day to write again, when you sit down tomorrow, you have new stuff, your brain has moved forward.

• 1:42:32John Joseph?

  Absolutely, I mean, I wake up every day and the first, usually the first thing I'll do is get some writing done and then train or whatever, but I don't know how many times I've been out on fucking, out on the bike, eight o'clock in the morning, I'm at the beach already and breathing in the air and I'm just fucking getting massive ideas for fucking screenplay or whatever, whatever, you know, ideas for whatever, just the endorphins of the exercise, you know, but it is, it's a tough thing to balance, but you know, you can definitely get it done. Am I trying to be, see for me, it's like,

• 1:43:15John Joseph?

  I'm not, I know my, I'm not gonna be a world-class, you know, under nine-hour fucking Ironman, I don't have any misconceptions of what the fuck I'm trying to do, I do it to challenge myself and, and to keep motivated and keep fit and that's what I go to the gym for. And, you know, really, ultimately, it's like, what's going to, the whole package is what's there to really help people because it's like, you know, I think I'm helping more people through my writing than I am doing a fucking Ironman, that's my personal, I do that for my own self and I'll run and do whatever, just because I enjoy it, but, you know.

• 1:44:00Mishka Shubaly?

  But also, I think a lot of your writing, you know, comes out of that experience of going out to do battle with yourself, I mean, I, I did a race a month ago and I, and it was, it was fifty miles and it took me almost fourteen hours, it was the people who put on the death race and they are sick motherfuckers, it was brutal.

• 1:44:18Rich Roll?

  Joe DeSena.

• 1:44:19Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah, yeah, and Andy, oh my god, so, we're running down this mountain and I know that I'm about to close it out, so I'm opening up a little. Bit like, you know, longer stride, like going for it, you know, I'm going to blow it all out towards the end. We get down, I can, you know, the water's right there. I can hear the people talking on the other side of the water. And there's a little sign that says up this way, just three more miles. I was like, fucking three more miles, man. I can't, I can't walk three more miles. I can't, you know, I, I, I almost cried. I really just almost sat down and cried. And then I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta walk it in. And I was walking and, you know, getting closer. And then this other dude came up behind me and he was like, finishes right up here, man. We got like, let's go, let's run it in. And I was like, what race are you finishing? And he was like, the 200 mile?

• 1:45:05Mishka Shubaly?

  And I was like, yeah, I guess I can run it in.

• 1:45:06John Joseph?

  Oh, he's doing the 200 mile?

• 1:45:09Mishka Shubaly?

  Yeah. And I had to like, and he was the one who kicked me in the ass to run, to run it over the finish line. But that experience of getting torn down and then built back up, the next time that I sat down to write, it was like, I was writing again for the first time. You know, and uh, so it was invaluable to writing and to moving, and that's how I finished like the last story was that race.

• 1:45:30John Joseph?

  That's beautiful. I mean, yeah, man, that's, it's, it, it really takes you to stay focused. I mean, I'm writing a new album now. I still, I mean, right after my book party Wednesday, I'm flying to Texas to play shows. So it's like, you know, you're playing shows.

• 1:45:46Rich Roll?

  Cause you're like, anybody else that had, that, that would be having a big book coming out, they would just be, that would just be their whole universe. But you're like, ah, it's coming out, but like, yeah, I'm going on tour with my band.

• 1:45:57John Joseph?

  Yeah, I'm like going to Texas. Because that's what I love doing too. The music is what.

• 1:46:03Rich Roll?

  You sell your books at the venues for the shows?

• 1:46:05John Joseph?

  Uh, I did before, yeah. Now.

• 1:46:08Mishka Shubaly?

  Last time I saw you play too, last time I saw you play, it looked like you'd just gotten off your bike to do the show.

• 1:46:14John Joseph?

  A lot of times I do, man. Shit. But you know, that's everything that I, I guess the essence of all the other beautiful gifts that came in my life stemmed from the Cro-Mags and the music and, you know, the other bands that I've been in and, you know, so it's like, the music really is, is the foundation for everything. And then, you know, I broke out into trying to challenge myself on these races and, and uh,

• 1:46:43John Joseph?

  You know, and writing is a challenge too. It's a different kinda challenge. Cause it's like, it takes mental focus to sit down there and block every other fucking thing out. And that's what's great about having a girl like, you know, my girl Erica, she just knows like, yo, that's writing time, she don't fucking bother me, man. It's like, I was like, if I had to go to an office and work for five hours, you wouldn't see me. So, if I'm sitting in my back room for five hours and I'm writing scenes or, you know, and now we're doing all these downloadable guides on the website, different stuff, you know, we're dealing with these quick guides and so it's like, you know, I'm always writing, I'm always trying to create something, cause that's,

• 1:47:29John Joseph?

  you know, what it's about. And you with your, you know, it's, I, I think that, that the exercise and the positive living goes hand in hand with being uh, creative, you know?

• 1:47:41Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think where it, where it becomes a struggle for me is, you know, when the sort of the obsessive compulsive, like alcoholic nature in me, like, I just wanna go down the rabbit hole. Cause I, I just like, it's almost like, it's not good unless I feel pain, you know, like, I gotta, I gotta like, just suffer, you know, whether it's like, training or like, writing a book or whatever, like, part of me wants to touch that, you know, and I feel like if I'm not touching that, that, then, you know, I'm not pushing myself hard enough.

• 1:48:11John Joseph?

  Obsessive compulsive, I was a fucking crackhead.

• 1:48:13Rich Roll?

  I know, well, that's why, why do you think I'm asking you guys? It's like, you guys, Rich, I have no idea what you're talking about. You know, so, this is why.

• 1:48:22John Joseph?

  But I think like, you're not gonna lose that nature, so why not take it and turn it around and do something positive with that same kinda like, I mean, I, I'm the same way, dude, I obsess about shit, but it, then it becomes obsessing about it to get it done. And that's a positive thing. If you look at, you know, all these people that have done amazing things, they fucking, that's, the last thing I say in my book is, to live by the code of the warrior, never give up. And it's like, it's not, you have to be compulsive to get shit done, because there's so many, so much outside influence. To detract you away from what it is that you gotta fucking get done.

• 1:49:06John Joseph?

  You have, you really have to just put the blinders on, man, and just block every fucking negative influence. And that's what I've been noticing more and more is like,

• 1:49:19John Joseph?

  I'm having to like, and it's just naturally those elements and certain even people are falling away. Because like, I just don't have time to deal with negativity and like, I'd rather

• 1:49:32Rich Roll?

  No, you're like, you gotta, you gotta narrow down your life to, like, look, you have a mission. You're pretty clear on, you know, where you're coming from and how you can affect people with that. So you wake up every day and you're like, how am I serving, you know, how am I serving this mission? And I, I feel the same way. I have that.

• 1:49:49Rich Roll?

  And I think the thing, I was talking to Julie about this the other day. She's trying to help me through it because she's, she's always like, you need to just balance out, like get balanced and I'm, and, and I, and I, and I hear that and I feel that and I, and I know that when I am more balanced, that I'm a more functional, positive human being. But I also recognize that the, the leaps and bounds that I've made in my life have been as a result of, of being temporarily out of balance. Like if I can go out of balance and like, really like work on this book or train for this race, then I know I can move the needle. And when I wake up and I think about that mission and how am I gonna, how, how can I serve this mission? How can I help people get healthier? You know, then I can get obsessive about it and I can justify being out of balance

• 1:50:34Rich Roll?

  because it's coming from a good place or, you know, with a positive intention. But then it doesn't always serve me because then I'll get out of balance and then I become, you know,

• 1:50:43Mishka Shubaly?

  I, I, I would argue that the, the people who have made the most positive difference in the world have been out of balance. I think you have to be out of balance.

• 1:50:52Rich Roll?

  And that's an argument I will tell them, tell myself. But I'm also interested in being happy and productive and a good dad and a good husband.

• 1:50:58Mishka Shubaly?

  It's ironic, it's ironic to hear you say this because for the last couple of weeks or so, I've been thinking about you and thinking, oh, Rich has so much balance. And I said, I'm gonna get obsessed with balance. So I've been trying to work out a little

• 1:51:13Rich Roll?

  That's an out of balance attitude about balance.

• 1:51:15Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, that's, that was the only way that I could, I could make sense about it to myself. So I said, I'm gonna work out every day for A short period of time, instead of doing six hours, you know, you know, on this one day and burn the whole day doing it. I'm gonna write a little bit every single day and just, you know, every day I'm gonna work on these, you know, these three areas that I need, where I need to get things done, instead of saying like, alright, I'm gonna write for 16 hours today and I'm not gonna leave the house and like,

• 1:51:43Mishka Shubaly?

  is it working? I don't know.

• 1:51:46John Joseph?

  I mean, that's, I try to be balanced in, in.

• 1:51:52Rich Roll?

  See, I think you are pretty balanced. Like, you get up, you do your meditation religiously, you never miss that. And I've been on like a meditation streak and I've noticed the difference. Like, I've been doing really good with that and it's definitely helped me.

• 1:52:04John Joseph?

  That's like the foundation right there, that everything else flows off of.

• 1:52:08Rich Roll?

  Right. You set the intention for the whole day, right?

• 1:52:11Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, but John, do you have a control thing, though?

• 1:52:15John Joseph?

  What do you mean?

• 1:52:15Mishka Shubaly?

  Well, I mean, I know that you work incredibly hard and that you're a very driven guy and that you sort of like manage a ton of different projects and you have training and writing and the plant power vision. Do you ever feel like there are times where you're working on a project where you're not in control? Does that make you crazy?

• 1:52:39John Joseph?

  Nah, I don't, I'm not a control freak where it's like I have to be the one.

• 1:52:44Mishka Shubaly?

  Like with Cro-Mags, is it all of you guys like hashing stuff out in a room together or is that a project that you're driving?

• 1:52:50John Joseph?

  The album writing is gonna be with a different band, but it's like even with the Cro-Mag stuff, it's like I'm not, I'm not the fucking like head, you know, HNIC, so to speak. It's a group effort, you know, and everybody goes on stage and does their thing and, you know, the tours and everything else, we function as a. You know, it is about the team.

• 1:53:15Mishka Shubaly?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:53:16John Joseph?

  You have to be a team player in life, too, just like even putting out this book. It was so many people involved with, like, even asking Rich to do the forward. And then, like, there's all these different people that were involved to bring that to light. And it's like, you can't forget those people, too. So if you're like this control freak that's trying to control every issue of, you know, that's where the OCD shit comes in. I don't really have that. I'm, you know, I'll work hard and take direction and stuff like that, but...

• 1:53:47Mishka Shubaly?

  Do you feel like meditation is what helps prevent you from being a control freak?

• 1:53:53John Joseph?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:53:54Mishka Shubaly?

  Because I have problems with that.

• 1:53:54John Joseph?

  You know, as they say, you know, man proposes, God disposes, you know? It's like, it's like you're not, you're not the controller. And that's one of the first things that you learn on the spiritual path is like, you are not the controller. There's a lot of things that are out of your control. You do your best, you know, for agreements. You always do your best. You know, you sit there and you put your energy out into the world, but you don't have control over how the world reacts to it or what the repercussions or what the benefits will be of that. It's like in the Bhagavad Gita, what do they say? You have a right to the work, but you don't have a right to the result of the work. Because it's like you don't know what's going to happen.

• 1:54:36John Joseph?

  So if you try to like be such a control freak over everything, you're going to lose your mind. And then you're going to fucking, when shit don't go your way, you're going to be like relapsing with the drugs and the alcohol and the meat or whatever the fuck. It's like you just have to, you know...

• 1:54:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, Julie will always say to me, like, when you get into that headspace, when you're trying to be controlling and you're in your self-will as opposed to God's will, you're just, you're in your ego. And when you relinquish that and you can be in surrender, you open yourself up to the possibility that...

• 1:55:11Rich Roll?

  You know, there's so much more than you could even possibly imagine. And it sounds kind of silly and, you know, like, new agey or whatever. But I look back on my life and what it was like even two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, to what it's like right now, and it's undeniable to me. Like, I couldn't have predicted what would have happened in my wildest dreams. And it's so much better than I would have plotted out for myself had I had the reins to be able to control it the way that I wanted it to go down. Right?

• 1:55:44John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:44Rich Roll?

  And there's a real beauty, there's a beauty in that.

• 1:55:47John Joseph?

  I mean, even when I started playing music in eighty-one and whatever, if somebody told me, you know, thirty-four years from now, you're gonna be writing books and doing all this other stuff and films, and I would be like, "Get the fuck out of here."

• 1:56:01Rich Roll?

  Making videos for Vice called Munchies?

• 1:56:06John Joseph?

  Yeah, but see, that's the whole thing, is you don't know where life's gonna take you. That's the journey, you know, that is just the amazing thing, you know? But it's like, that's why I dig your wife so much, man. She's, like, when we did the podcast, she was, like, so in tune spiritually with everything.

• 1:56:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, she's fully on your wavelength.

• 1:56:27John Joseph?

  And I hate that, you know, to just, you know, call things as it is. I never try to say, like, "It's so new agey" or whatever the fuck, 'cause it's like, I seem to think that a lot of the people that taught me a lot of the shit I know, yeah, okay, they were into different stuff from the normal society. I guess they would be labeled as new age or whatever, but they lived by that, that's how they lived their lives. And I saw the examples that they lived, and I was like, "These people just ain't talking shit. They're actually doing what the fuck they're..." You know, the best leaders are the ones that lead by example, you know?

• 1:57:10John Joseph?

  And these people were like, "Wow, this dude's fucking..." Like, I would see them, you know, come under pressure. That's what does McKee say? You know, "True character is only revealed under pressure. The greater the pressure, the greater the revelation of true character." And it's like, that's the real deal. And then I would see these people, you know, and they'd have their tests, and they would be like, "Fff, fucking..." This motherfucker did exactly what he was instructing me to do.

• 1:57:37Rich Roll?

  Right, just solid.

• 1:57:37John Joseph?

  Yeah, like.

• 1:57:39Rich Roll?

  But I think, like, you know, when we opened up the podcast, you were talking, in describing the book, you were saying, oh, you know, the word vegan is like a five-letter word, right? But I think that when you say the word spirituality, that has the same impact on a lot of people. Like, that same kind of like, talk-to-the-hand reaction that you get from the word vegan. If you try to tell a dude, hey, let's talk about like, some spiritual stuff, you know, you're gonna get a similar reaction. So, you know, you, you're a very spiritual cat, right? So how do you navigate that, like, when you try to talk about these issues with, when you're trying to meet people where they're at?

• 1:58:17John Joseph?

  Well, I think philosophically is the way that I, I try to do that with him. Like, I'll give analogies and be like, you know, try to break shit down to the common denominator, like, yo. Cause reality and philosophically, like, if, if you look at life, truth is truth, it don't matter what label you put on it. And if you just keep, keep giving these dudes examples of like, yo, and they, and they can relate and be like, yo, you know what, man, you're fucking right. Like, that is, that is a fucking very good point. I mean, that's the way my hard-headed motherfucking ass learned. Like, I would, you know, be challenging and then I would have to be like,

• 1:59:02John Joseph?

  oh shit, you know what, man, you're actually right about that. And, you know, that's what I try to do with people. I, I just go, man, you know what, read this book, man. Go read this book and come back and let's talk about it. Cause I think like, you know, that's a good thing. Cause then you're not sitting there on the spot with somebody. You can have a philosophical discussion, but then you send them on their own journey to sit there with their own mind and ego and, in, in a fucking room by themselves. And I think, coming back to that fear word, that's what a lot of people are fucking living behind. The mask that they wear in, in public, that everybody wears,

• 1:59:47John Joseph?

  that characterization as opposed to true character. And people are wearing these masks in public of all these.

• 1:59:57John Joseph?

  People they really are not, so it's like, that's the real fear. So if you tell somebody, yo, read this, get this book, The Science of Self-Realization. You read that, and you sit down in your room and read that shit the way that I did, and let's have a conversation after that. And then they're like, yo, that shit was deep. And then it leads to like a next conversation. But I think

• 2:00:23John Joseph?

  you gotta give people space, man, you know, to, to self, the journey of self, uh, you know, that journey of self-discovery that we all went through to work out our demons. It works for everybody when they try to do that, I think.

• 2:00:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it works when you, when you have, when you have the willingness, you know, and you can't, you can't will that willingness on somebody else.

• 2:00:45Mishka Shubaly?

  I, I have a little bombshell to drop on you guys. This meditation thing, it actually fucking works. The, the la- The last time that we got together, um, I asked you, when we were leaving, I was like, John, do you, do you really like fucking meditate every day and all this shit? And you were like, yeah, of course I do, every day. And if I don't do it every day, then I feel-

• 2:01:08John Joseph?

  Feel like shit.

• 2:01:09Mishka Shubaly?

  I feel unsettled, I feel imbalanced. And I, I, it took me a while, I had to think it over because I, on the one hand, I was like, oh, all this meditation, that's all bullshit, that's all, but I know John, and I know that he's straight up. I know that he's ruthlessly honest with himself and with everybody else around him.

• 2:01:29John Joseph?

  I thought you were gonna say I'm straight.

• 2:01:33Mishka Shubaly?

  And, uh, and I, and I was like, and I was like, you know, I, I always said, uh, I would try anything once. And I was talking about meth, but I can apply it to meditation too. And I tried it, and the first time I tried it, man, I, I fell right into it, and it totally worked. And I, you know, I went, I mean, I try and do it as much as I can now, but I went a whole like 10-day stretch where I was doing it every day, and it would just, it helped me, you know?

• 2:02:00John Joseph?

  Well, it does, cuz I, I really feel when you sit there- And you block out all of the stimuli that. I think there's so many distractions, man, like that's why I love Rage Against the Machine because he'd be like, you know. What does the billboard say? Come and play, come and play. It's like there's so much shit just being fucking, your senses are bombarded all fucking day long. And when you sit in a fucking room and you meditate or you chant and you have to control the mind. You know, what does it say in the Bhagavad Gita? It's more difficult, it's easier to control the raging wind than it is to control the mind.

• 2:02:41John Joseph?

  It's a fucking demon, but you have to beat the mind with a fucking stick every day. And if I don't, then I, I, it's, God knows where the mind could take you, you know? So you really, that's what the meditation does. It just quiets everything down and you really put, instead of looking outside of yourself, you start to look inward and start to say like, okay, you know, who am I? Am I this fucking shell? Am I the mind? You say, my mind, my intelligence, my senses, my hand. So who the fuck are you? If you're not asking that, then you're not even on the human platform of life. You know?

• 2:03:24John Joseph?

  It's about a tato brahman jigasa, understanding what is the purpose of human life. It's to, it's to acquire knowledge and you have to sit there and really just quiet the mind and be like, alright, who the fuck am I and what do I need to do? You know? And that's what, you know, the text messaging and all this shit is just so many fucking distractions. Everybody's like running around fucking Instagramming and this and that and it's just, it's just all bullshit. Because like, it's just, this is all just more shit to fucking take you away from that inward journey of self-discovery, man.

• 2:04:08John Joseph?

  And that's what every man and every fucking woman needs, needs to really do to, to, to get anywhere in life. That, you know, that really matters, you know?

• 2:04:21John Joseph?

  Like, just like, uh, what was his slow mo, right?

• 2:04:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:04:25John Joseph?

  Fucking, what did he say? The dude's like, fucking even what I just watched, he was like, you know, this insane life of like, working fucking twenty, nineteen hours a day, and now the dude just rollerblades and it's like, and he's happy. It's all about being happy in this, you know, in, you know, in life and not, you know, just being like a cog in a fucking machines and losing our humanity and who, and not caring and having compassion for other people.

• 2:04:57Rich Roll?

  Right, and, and to be clear, I mean, you're on Facebook, you're on, you're on Instagram, so it's not, it's not, you're not, you're not like a Luddite saying like, I don't do any of this stuff, it's your relationship to it, is it owning you or are you?

• 2:05:10John Joseph?

  It doesn't run my, doesn't run my life, and if you read my posts and whatever, usually it's PMA. Funny or positive mental attitude or an experience I had on the street or, you know, it's never like, you know, oh, my fucking relationship and like, you know, if another motherfucker cuts me off in traffic, I'm like, you know. It's, you know, I use, everything's a tool. I can use a knife to fucking prepare a nice fucking meal, or I can stab somebody and ruin my life.

• 2:05:46John Joseph?

  So it's not the tool that's bad, money, you know, they say is the root of all evil, that's bullshit, it's like people do evil shit with it, but it could also be used to do good, good things, you know, so, anyway.

• 2:06:02Rich Roll?

  So where, where do you see all of this going for you? Like, you know, where would you like to be five years from now?

• 2:06:10John Joseph?

  I don't know, man, I'm, I don't, I don't try to like

• 2:06:13Rich Roll?

  You don't plan ahead?

• 2:06:14John Joseph?

  Nah, man, I don't, I never even planned my life like that, I just You know what, whatever happens, uh, who knows? I know one thing, I'm not gonna compromise on my values and what I'm about. I'm not gonna fucking sell out. I had opportunities fucking out the wazoo to do that. I don't give a fuck about that. I don't give a fuck about fame or money or any of that stuff. You know, cuz like, look where I came from, nothing. Having a fucking steal to eat as a kid.

• 2:06:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:06:45John Joseph?

  You know, and it's like-

• 2:06:46Rich Roll?

  So part of that is just, every day is gravy.

• 2:06:48John Joseph?

  Yeah. This is fucking gravy compared to where the fuck I've been, but it took a lot of work to, to, to get to this place. So I can't say like, where am I gonna be in five years down the road? I'm gonna work hard every day, I'm gonna stay sober, I'm gonna fucking keep helping people. And try to, if any monetary gain comes, I'm gonna use it to help people the way I've always done. I don't give a fuck about having a fucking Porsche or any of that shit, you know? I'd rather just, you know, I, I see people that give all their sh- A perfect example is my, my boy Tal Ronan, man.

• 2:07:29John Joseph?

  You know, he fucking gives away all his money to fucking charity. It's like, and he's, he's fucking happy. Runs a great restaurant, Crossroads.

• 2:07:37Rich Roll?

  Head chef at Crossroads, which is like the restaurant in L.A.

• 2:07:40John Joseph?

  Person, he's not, and, and he's like, you know, he, he's running in the circles with multimillionaires, but that's just- He comes from punk rock, he's just like, you know what, I got a great fucking life, I don't need all this bullshit, like. That's kinda the way I, I, I, I think of it, I'm just like, yo, you know, I, I, I went from being a kid being starved, being fed Oreo spit fucking sandwiches and fucking eating, stealing the dog's fucking Milk Bone Dog biscuits cuz I was starving. And now I'm like, eating organic- Amazing food, so it's like, where's the fucking problems? Just stay positive. And like I said, we don't have control.

• 2:08:25John Joseph?

  I'm not gonna sit there and try to be a control freak and try to figure everything out. I know as soon as my eyes open the next day, I'm like, alright Krishna, thank you for that. Let me pay my respects, let me do my meditations, let me write, let me train. And who can I fucking help? Right, what's the next right, best decision? Exactly, you know, and taking uh, the association of great people like yourself and even Mishka. Even though the motherfucker didn't read my book yet. I gave it to you. I tried to get a copy from you. Me and some pussies, I didn't. Yeah, no, I texted you a bunch of times. Maybe you were too busy on Instagram. That's it, I was tweeting motherfucker, sorry. You come second to my tweets, alright?

• 2:09:08Rich Roll?

  And dude, I would have had a lot more questions about the book if you sent me an advanced copy.

• 2:09:13John Joseph?

  That's alright, man, we just fucking winged it in here, man.

• 2:09:17Rich Roll?

  No, it's good. But I think that's a, um, I think it's a good place to start wrapping that up, man.

• 2:09:24John Joseph?

  And that's uh, you know, like I said, I think it's all about association and who we associate with in this life. And I've tried to, more and more as time's gone on, just really tried to surround myself with positive people and hope that some of their qualities rub off on me, you know? And that's what it, to me, that's what it's all about. And uh, I'm still learning, you know, and I'm still trying to grow as a person. And uh, I have a lot of shit still to work on, you know?

• 2:09:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that never ends, but you know, raise the vibration of your food, raise the vibration of your company, raise the vibration of your environment. You know, try to, try to focus on the things that you do have control over. Let go of the results.

• 2:10:09John Joseph?

  So yeah, I hope everybody uh, picks up a copy of the book. And Rich wrote an amazing foreword, I mean, Papa Collins was speechless when they fucking read that, they were just like. Holy shit, like, you know, they couldn't believe it.

• 2:10:25Mishka Shubaly?

  Cool.

• 2:10:25John Joseph?

  It was very, very.

• 2:10:27Rich Roll?

  Well, it was an honor to contribute. It was, I had a diabolical plan that I set in place to make that happen. I'm glad it worked out.

• 2:10:34John Joseph?

  I know, they were like, they were like, you know, um.

• 2:10:38Rich Roll?

  No, cause you said, will you write the, you wanted me to write the afterword? And I was like.

• 2:10:42John Joseph?

  Okay.

• 2:10:43Rich Roll?

  And I was like, I'm gonna write the fore. I go, that door's been cracked open, so.

• 2:10:49John Joseph?

  I read it and I was like, goddamn, I'm gonna fucking, how am I gonna? It's like a tough act to follow, you know? You fucking read this guy's foreword and you're like, holy shit, I better go back and read some more books to. And then like Harper Collins was like, um, this is a pretty phenomenal thing. What do you think about this being the foreword? And I was like, all right, I just wanted you guys to say, but I'm in agreement. And then I told him and he goes, I go, hey, he's like, you know, I wrote the foreword, right? And I was like, yeah, I know.

• 2:11:21Mishka Shubaly?

  No, he was bragging to me about it when it came through.

• 2:11:24John Joseph?

  Dude, it's unbelievable.

• 2:11:25Rich Roll?

  Well, I just, I was really touched and honored that you asked me to contribute anything to it. So it's my pleasure and I'm glad that it made it into the book. And I'm really excited about this book coming out and I'm excited for you. And mostly I'm excited about the impact that I think it's gonna have on a lot of people. So, you know, my message to everybody out there who's listening is you gotta get this book. Like honestly, and I don't, you know, I have a lot of authors on this show. Um, you know, Mishka's been on the show. I recommend everybody read Mishka's writing.

• 2:11:57Mishka Shubaly?

  I'll be there on Wednesday, buy my copy. I'll do the 30 day challenge for sure.

• 2:12:01Rich Roll?

  I really, I really do, uh, you know, stand by this book and I'm really excited to see how it's gonna impact people. So if you're listening, please pick up a copy. And if it's something that it doesn't seem like it interests you, pick it up for that loved one or that person out there who's suffering, who is having difficulty and, you know, that you care about and that you wanna help, because I think this book is, has really a huge potential to be able to cut through the bullshit and impact people that, um, are maybe harder to reach when it comes to talking about health and diet and things like that, that guys don't really like to talk about.

• 2:12:43John Joseph?

  Right.

• 2:12:43Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 2:12:44John Joseph?

  And, you know, I've been able to have so many amazing people be involved with it, you know, like yourself and the guys that did Forks Over Knives and, you know, all these different people. It's just, everybody's willing to like, regardless of whatever differences we may have in the way we do things, everybody's kinda united in the common goal of like, let's try to turn the fucking planet around and, you know, it's a great thing.

• 2:13:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this is a, you know, this is a revolution and it's a revolution that's badly needed because people are sick out there, you know, and heart disease isn't just America's number one killer. It's the world's number one killer. I think in America, the stats are something like, one out of every two people will be afflicted by heart disease in some regard. One out of every three will suffer some kind of cardiac event in their life and that's insane. You know, so this is not just diet theory and a bunch of bullshit about, you know, looking skinny. Like, we are having serious problems and especially with guys, you know, and it's time to get real and it just breaks my heart when I see friends or, you know,

• 2:13:53Rich Roll?

  people in my life who are suffering and knowing that these conditions are diet and lifestyle oriented and with a few simple changes, a lot of the problems that so many people are having could be easily avoided.

• 2:14:06John Joseph?

  Absolutely.

• 2:14:07Rich Roll?

  So, it's, you know, it's as serious as a heart attack. No joke, right? Pun intended.

• 2:14:12John Joseph?

  Definitely.

• 2:14:13Rich Roll?

  And this book hits it right up the middle and so I hope everybody will check it out and if they do, the best place to do that, they can just pick it up on Amazon. Use the banner ad at richroll.com, go to Amazon and pick it up and I'm sure it's gonna be in all the bookstores and all that kind of good stuff.

• 2:14:28John Joseph?

  And check our website, cause we'll have a lot of good stuff on there too, like, you know, there's, I just did this quick guide on like, You know, how to eat healthy on the cheap, because that's what everybody says. I can't afford that shit. And then you read this fucking guide I did. There ain't no way you could fucking tell me that you can't afford healthy fucking food. No way. If you do, then you are a fucking, if you try to tell me, then you're a pussy. Because that means you're not trying.

• 2:15:00Rich Roll?

  Is that like a free download on the website?

• 2:15:02John Joseph?

  No, it's like we're selling these downloadable guides, real cheap.

• 2:15:06Rich Roll?

  Is that a pure PMA dot com?

• 2:15:07John Joseph?

  Pure PMA dot com is our website. You can download the guide. It's like thirty seven fucking pages for five bucks or whatever. You get to download it, has all the fucking steps. There's one for Healthy Eats on the Cheap, PMA. And then the third one is Surviving New York City. But it all has that fucking commi-, you know, I try to like, the way I talk, I try to, the fucking JJS, fucking John Bloodclot, Boombucklot experience.

• 2:15:38Mishka Shubaly?

  And, and this is what you left out of your description of the book is that it will be incredibly entertaining, incredibly funny, and incredibly touching.

• 2:15:48Rich Roll?

  Well, any book that has a, a, a chapter titled Diets Are for Jackoffs.

• 2:15:52John Joseph?

  Jerk off.

• 2:15:53Rich Roll?

  Jerk offs, sorry, jerk.

• 2:15:55Mishka Shubaly?

  Get it, get it right.

• 2:15:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:57Mishka Shubaly?

  That's important.

• 2:15:58John Joseph?

  The great food man.

• 2:15:59Rich Roll?

  Does it have to be jerk offs? Can it be jack offs? Can't we see?

• 2:16:03Mishka Shubaly?

  Let's send it to editorial.

• 2:16:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05John Joseph?

  But anyway, I thank Harper Collins too for giving me just the fucking letting me do what I do, you know, and not wanting to change nothing. Because like, you know, when they read it, they were just like, we don't want you to fucking change a thing. We, and, but I updated a lot of stuff and wrote new chapters, you know, so, and they were like, you're really made this a lot bigger book than we intended. And I was like, so what? Let's put it out. And they did.

• 2:16:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:16:34John Joseph?

  So they're, they've been really great to me. Harper Collins Wave.

• 2:16:38Rich Roll?

  Good, good. It's good to hear when the big publishing houses actually are, are doing right.

• 2:16:42John Joseph?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Rich Roll?

  You know, that's cool. All right, man. And Mishka, you just had an album that just hit.

• 2:16:48Mishka Shubaly?

  I just finished it. It'll be out in October. I have a new Kindle single up next month.

• 2:16:54Rich Roll?

  Right. Mishkalito.

• 2:16:57Mishka Shubaly?

  And I'm glad I finally got to be in bed with you guys today.

• 2:17:01Rich Roll?

  I know. We all were, man. We made it happen. Thanks, you guys. The post-punk Algonquin table.

• 2:17:07Mishka Shubaly?

  Algonquin bed.

• 2:17:12Mishka Shubaly?

  Gets broadcast for everyone on the internet.

• 2:17:15Rich Roll?

  All right, everybody. Peace.

• 2:17:17John Joseph?

  Peace.

• 2:17:18Rich Roll?

  Plants.

• 2:17:19John Joseph?

  Plants. BMA.

• 2:17:27Rich Roll?

  All right, everybody. How'd that go for you? Was that intense enough for you? I hope you liked it. But I can promise you that you won't hear a conversation like that anywhere else this week, or maybe ever. So anyway, I hope it came out okay for you. And thanks again for listening. If you've been inspired by John Joseph's Plant Powered Manifesto and want to figure out how you can get more plants into your diet, into your lifestyle, well, of course, pick up his book, Meat is for Pussies. That'll get you where you want to go. But if you're looking for a little bit more, or you want to kind of hear me talk about it, you could check out my online course, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition.

• 2:18:07Rich Roll?

  It's about three hours of streaming video content with a ton of downloadable tools and resources and an online community to help you. If you're feeling stuck in your life, if you feel like you don't know what your passion is, or you have a goal and you're having trouble trying to figure out how to execute on that goal, I have another course online. It's called The Art of Living with Purpose, and it's all about setting goals and achieving them and trying to unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self. Both of these courses can be found at mindbodygreen.com. On the upper menu at the top, there's a button that says Courses, Video Courses. Click that. It's easy to find.

• 2:18:49Rich Roll?

  Of course, go to ritual.com for all your plant-powered provisions. We got a brand-new t-shirt out, The Run- RRP shirt. It's in the style of the iconic classic Run DMC shirt, except it says Run RRP. This is a classic, just black cotton tee shirt, but we're gonna be doing tech tees for running soon. So that way you can go out running and you can support the podcast. But I love this tee shirt. It's super groovy. And we just sent out an email blast last night. It's $10 off for a couple of days. So go to ritual.com and check that out. That way you can proudly show your affiliation with the podcast, which I love. If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter already, go to ritual.com and subscribe there.

• 2:19:34Rich Roll?

  That way you'll be the first to hear about deals and sales on our products and also receive a weekly newsletter about the podcast and other health and nutrition and kind of fitness related stuff. So do that. Again, thanks for supporting the show, for telling a friend, for sharing it on social media. I love the Instagrams. Always tag me @ritual or hashtag ritual or hashtag RRP. So keep that up. You can donate to the podcast at ritual.com. You can subscribe there by throwing us a couple bucks every week or every month or any dollar amount that you choose. And thank you so much for people that have done that. That just warms my heart like you cannot imagine. And as always, you can follow me on Twitter and on Instagram, I'm at ritual. I'm easy to find. I'm on Facebook.

• 2:20:19Rich Roll?

  And now I've been Snapchatting. I'm gonna start Snapchatting occasional meals and training sessions and other banalities of my life. So if Snapchat's your thing, on Snapchat, you can find me at I Am Rich Roll, because somebody had already taken Rich Roll. All right, that's it, you guys. Hope you enjoyed it. I'll be back with you next week. Tomorrow Julie and I are renewing our vows. 11 years married and we're gonna go away for another little second little honeymoon for a couple of days. But I'll be back at you next week. And until then, eat more plants. And in the words of John Joseph, peace, plants, and PMA, Positive Mental Attitude. See you next week.