Slow, Stop, & Reverse Aging: Peter Diamandis On Longevity Protocols, Lifestyle Medicine, & Optimizing Healthspan

Peter Diamandis is a renowned physician, futurist, and the founder of XPRIZE, whose paradigm-shifting work transforms our understanding of aging and human potential. This conversation delves into the duality of our longevity revolution: the simple, actionable tools accessible to anyone today, and the bold technologies that could reshape our future. From innovative diagnostics to organ regeneration, Peter details why this decade might fundamentally alter our relationship with aging. Along the way, we examine practical health strategies and the philosophical implications of extending human healthspan. Peter is the ultimate optimist. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Momentous: 20% OFF all of my favorite products 👉livemomentous.com/richroll Go Brewing: Use code Rich Roll for 15% OFF 👉gobrewing.com LMNT: Get a FREE Sample Pack with any drink mix purchase👉drinkLMNT.com/RICHROLL OneSkin: Get 15% off with the code RICHROLL 👉oneskin.co Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Peter Diamandis?

  Our ancestors would consider us as gods. There's a lot coming. We're beginning to understand fundamentally why do we age? What is going on? The man or woman who has their health has a thousand dreams, and the man or woman who does not has but one.

• 1:21Rich Roll?

  Peter Diamandis is an antidote to the doomsday thinking that permeates our culture. This is a guy who has devoted his life to proving that our future isn't just salvageable, it's potentially extraordinary. Peter is the founder of XPRIZE and Singularity University, and kind of a visionary who, for decades, has been ambitiously architecting solutions to some of humanity's most intractable challenges, leveraging optimism to transform imagination into reality.

• 1:51Peter Diamandis?

  I want people to have that longevity mindset. Exercise is the number-one pro-longevity thing you can do for yourself, especially if you're in your late 50s or into your over 60s. You just have to decide whether you want to take control of your own situation or not. His latest moonshot...

• 2:09Rich Roll?

  Extending human lifespan. It's a hot topic, but how much agency do we actually have when it comes to aging? And when it comes to extending longevity, what are the factors and habits that actually matter the most? And to what extent is it rational to believe that AI and other technological breakthroughs are actually going to advance our potential to thrive for years beyond what we might currently believe possible? Well, these are but a few of the questions we tackle in today's conversation that attempts to parse actionable guidance from snake oil fantasy and basically begins and ends with the importance of mindset.

• 2:48Peter Diamandis?

  Mindset is the first step. If I don't believe I can, then you won't. This is a very different time than the last 20, 30, 50 years. Most people can figure out what to do with 10 or 20 years. And I say, what about 50 years? And their minds break.

• 3:07Rich Roll?

  Peter, great to see you. Thanks for coming by today.

• 3:09Peter Diamandis?

  Rich, thanks for having me back.

• 3:11Rich Roll?

  When we first sat down, when was that, like two years ago? A year and a half ago or something like that? The focus was really on the book that you co-wrote with Tony Robbins, Life Force. We talked about the evolution of medical science from treating disease to this new era of thinking about preventing disease and then now promoting well-being and this health span extension revolution that is the focus of the book and very much, you know, top of mind for you as an expert in that field. A lot has happened since then. So I'm interested in what has transpired because everything is moving so quickly. Where is your head in terms of like the evolution that we've seen even in the last like year or two?

• 3:55Peter Diamandis?

  Sure. And my hope is for anybody watching this episode that they take away immediately useful things.

• 4:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we're going to be focused on that. And that's really, that's, that's what, you know, this new book is really all about. It's kind of like a how to practical, like incorporate into your life version of Life Force, which was a very thick book.

• 4:14Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I mean, Life Force was 700 pages and I'm like, I don't know how anyone has the time to read a 700-page book and get through it. I said, there's so much information and I wanted to really boil it down to what you can do right now, what each thing can benefit you. And one of the things, most importantly, is what I call getting a longevity mindset. I think mindset is one of the most important things. We'll talk about mindset impacting your physiology, your health, but a longevity mindset is the idea that you're clear, there are so many breakthroughs arriving right now and over the decade ahead that could truly

• 4:55Peter Diamandis?

  extend your health span and lifespan, that you're going to do all that you can do today to be in the best health to intercept these technologies, right? That they're worth putting the investment of time, energy, foregoing that donut, getting up and doing the exercise, going to bed early enough. And I hope that I'll prove this to you and those watching, because I think it's the greatest gift we can ever give everybody, you know, health is the new wealth. And this is a very different decade, the decade now, 2025 to 2035, than we've ever had. It's a decade powered by AI, which is the biggest transformer of this

• 5:39Peter Diamandis?

  field. It's powered by CRISPR, by gene therapies, by single cell sequencing, by all these technologies that are helping us understand why people age, how to slow it, stop it, perhaps reverse it.

• 5:51Rich Roll?

  So there's the low hanging fruit of like diet, exercise, sleep, you go into detail in the book about that. Then the diagnostic tools that are becoming increasingly available for early detection, which is so huge in terms of staving off disease before it really gets out of the gate. And then there are all of these sort of medical interventions and supplements and, you know, that kind of leads you into some of these moon shots and, you know, where we're kind of headed with all of this. But fundamentally, I'm glad you brought up mindset because none of this matters if you can't get your head around your relationship with yourself, right? Like that you have agency over this process,

• 6:32Rich Roll?

  that you are not on a course that's predetermined by your genetics, and that you have a level of optimism and self-efficacy to exert, you know, some effort towards, you know, how you're thinking about How you're entering into these later decades. And I think short of that, if you don't have that, you're just reacting to your environment on this kind of predetermined course.

• 6:56Peter Diamandis?

  Absolutely. So, I mean, people should realize, most folks think that their lifespan. So let me define lifespan is how long your heart's ticking, right? How long you're alive, whether you can think or do anything at all. Health span is how long are you in great health, where you have the vitality to live and enjoy your life, where you're enjoying your grandkids, you're enjoying what you're doing, and you have that vitality. So that's health span. And in the United States today, there's about a 17-year gap between lifespan and health span. So lifespan on average is like 79 today. Health span on average is 63. So you hit, I'm 63 today, right? And I feel like I'm in the best health I've ever been.

• 7:42Peter Diamandis?

  You'll be there soon.

• 7:43Rich Roll?

  Soon, soon enough.

• 7:44Peter Diamandis?

  Not yet, but soon enough. And so the notion that it's a slow decline, and we'll talk about why that occurs, but saying, I refuse to let this decline happen. I'm going to take agency and do what I can. And a lot of people think, well, my mom and dad passed at 70 or 75, and so that's my future. Well, it turns out that your genetics are not your longevity vitality future in the whole. There was a study done that showed that your true longevity is only about 7% in your genes.

• 8:24Peter Diamandis?

  At the high end, it's potentially 30% of your genetics, which means at the worst case, 70% of your ability to have a long and healthy life is within your control.

• 8:39Peter Diamandis?

  And so if you know that, first and foremost, you're willing to do what it takes to, you know, give yourself access and to do the right things from a lifestyle perspective. But you're right, mindset is the first step. If I don't believe I can, then you won't.

• 8:57Rich Roll?

  Well, fundamentally, either you believe that your behavior and your habits are either moving you towards health or away from health, or you don't, right? So first of all, you have to flick that switch and say, what I eat, how I move, the people I interact with, the environments that I choose to inhabit, like, do impact my well-being and the trajectory of how long I'm going to be able to sustain health span, or you don't, right? And if you do, then it's like, okay, well, the onus is on you. Like, if you have agency, like, what are you doing to direct that?

• 9:31Peter Diamandis?

  Even the way you perceive the world has an impact. There's a study, I just want to quote, I marked it here. And I love this. It says, "In a study of 69,744 women and 1,429 men, published in the prestigious journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences," like, highest level work, right? "It was found that optimistic people live as much as 15% longer than pessimists." And it's a good double benefit for being an optimist.

• 10:03Rich Roll?

  Is that a mutable quality, though?

• 10:05Peter Diamandis?

  I think it is. There's a lot of people who are dour in their lives and getting the flip over to an optimist. I think it is mutable. So our brains are neural nets, right? We have 100 billion neurons, 100 trillion synaptic connections. And we shape our brain, as you very well know, by what's on our walls, the podcasts we listen to, right? Here we are, your listeners listening to this, TV shows you watch, who you hang out with, right? What you read. All these things are constantly shaping your neural net, just like, just like feeding data to Gemini or ChatGPT feeds, it shapes its neural net.

• 10:47Peter Diamandis?

  And the problem is that we're living in a world where Most people are bombarded by the news media. And the news media, you couldn't pay me enough money to watch the evening news or read the morning paper. They have an agenda and their agenda isn't to give you dystopian or optimistic news. It's to deliver your eyeballs to their advertisers. That's their business. And at the end of the day, we pay 10 times more attention to negative news than positive news. It's evolutionarily beneficial. On the savannas of Africa 100,000 years ago, rustling the leaves, if you thought wind and it was a lion, you were screwed. Your genes were out of the gene pool.

• 11:29Peter Diamandis?

  And so we developed a cognitive bias for negative news. And we pay 10 times more attention to negative than positive news. And so for that reason, you know, tomorrow morning, open newspaper, count the number of negative stories to positive stories. It's at least 10 to one. And is that the way the world truly is? Or is that just the way it's being presented to you?

• 11:51Rich Roll?

  On some level, every behavior change is a function of willingness. And somebody who, like, if you're addicted to drugs, you have to have a willingness to, you know, explore sobriety. If you're a fundamentally pessimistic person, you have to have some willingness to try to shift that, right?

• 12:10Peter Diamandis?

  There has to be a why.

• 12:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So it's very hard to compel, you know, somebody who doesn't have a positive mindset to adopt a positive mindset, short of their willingness on their own. It's an internally generated energy that's required. But anybody who's listening to this podcast probably already, you know, has a relationship on some level with a growth mindset.

• 12:33Peter Diamandis?

  I would imagine your viewers do.

• 12:34Rich Roll?

  I mean, you know, you're like the poster child for a growth mindset with all the things that you've manifested and all the, you know, different interests that you've explored. You're a very curious person. But I think like any habit change or behavior change, it's about these tiny little things. Like, yes, maybe just don't watch the news or, you know, pay more attention to your information diet. Like, you could begin there.

• 12:56Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Agreed. I mean, I pay as much attention to what I let into my mind as what I eat and let into my body, right? Those are two things that very much shape you. Part, it's having a why. Like, why do you want to live an extra 20 or 30 years? You know, I run an experiment with my abundance members where I'll say, "Okay, what would you do in an extra 10 years of life, of health, right?" Then I'll ask, "Okay, how about 20 years?" Most people can figure out what to do with 10 or 20 years. And I say, "What about 50 years?" And their minds break. You know, it's a very, it's very challenging for us. But when you can

• 13:40Peter Diamandis?

  connect to something, like, you know, I grew up sort of weaning on Star Trek and Apollo program. And I just, I want to see humanity become a multi-planetary species. I want to be part of that endeavor. I want to meet my great-grandkids. I think it's the most exciting time ever to be alive. And I want to see as much of it as I can. And that, that inspires me. There's a concept I talk about in the book, which I think is another part of the inspiration. It's called longevity escape velocity. And we might have talked about it last time, but it's worth recounting. So today, for every year that you're alive, science is extending your life for a quarter of a year or thereabouts. Ray Kurzweil, Aubrey

• 14:25Peter Diamandis?

  de Grey, talked about this idea that in the future, for every year that you're alive, science is going to extend your life for more than a year. And that's called longevity escape velocity. So when will that happen? Well, Ray Kurzweil believes it will be by 2030, or by the end of the year 2030. He's got an 86% accuracy rate in his predictions. Pretty damn good.

• 14:49Rich Roll?

  That's a pretty bold proclamation. We did talk about that last time. We also kind of discussed the philosophical implications of what that would mean. You know, what does it mean when suddenly everybody has a different relationship with with death? How does that impact your relationship with risk, your risk tolerance, what kind of decisions you make? What's going to happen with all these children that are now, you know, like there's, there's population issues, there's employee, there's all kinds of very interesting thought experiments that play into that. You know, 2030, that's coming up pretty quick. You're an optimist. And this is where we get into like, you're the moonshot guy.

• 15:24Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 15:24Rich Roll?

  And it's fun to play around with that.

• 15:27Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, but let's say it's 2040.

• 15:28Rich Roll?

  But that's the way into the mindset shift, basically. Whether you believe that's going to happen or not, it's like a window into like thinking differently about your own life and what might be possible. Whether or not that happens or not almost doesn't matter. It's like your relationship with your own kind of, you know, life and what it means and how you're finding purpose and what gets you excited and out of bed in the morning.

• 15:51Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, and it may be that it's not extending your life past 100, but what if it's giving you vital health till your 90s? So you are, you've got the aesthetics, the cognition, the mobility to really live a full life with these additional decades. You know, George Shirts and David Sinclair, both Harvard professors in this field, their prediction is mid to late 2030s. Even if it's 2040, the point I'm making is, okay, that's, you know, call it 15 years from now, your job is not to die from something stupid in the interim and to give yourself the maximum chance to intercept these breakthroughs coming. You don't want

• 16:35Peter Diamandis?

  to be the last person to miss it, so to speak.

• 16:37Rich Roll?

  Sometimes I feel like, yeah, I'm, I'm right on the edge of that, like.

• 16:43Rich Roll?

  Like my kids, it will be very different, right? Like, I'm kinda hoping to like, kind of just slide in.

• 16:49Peter Diamandis?

  I'm working hard for you, buddy.

• 16:51Rich Roll?

  As the clock's ticking out. What is the original inspiration or spark that got you interested in this field to begin with? I'm not sure I asked you that last time.

• 17:00Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, there's a couple of things. When I was in medical school, I watched a television show on long live sea life, and I learned that the bowhead whale could live 200 years, and the Greenland shark could live 500 years and have babies at 200 years old. And I'm like, thinking, if they can live that long, why can't I? My answer, which I still believe, is it's either an engineering problem or software problem. And we're gonna have the technology to change that, to solve that. And I think this next decade is that time. AI is gonna have the biggest impact, right?

• 17:33Rich Roll?

  Well, it's certainly an extraordinary moment that we're in right now. It is the most transition-forward experience, you know, in the history of humanity. The rate at which advances are being made is dizzying. It's difficult to even like, get our heads around it.

• 17:48Peter Diamandis?

  We've become numb to it. We've become totally numb to it, right? Where I have a slide in a chapter in my next books called, "Our ancestors would consider us as gods." We have god-like capability, with a small g, right? We're omniscient, we're omnipotent, we're omnipresent. I can zoom anyplace, FaceTime anyplace, I can know anything. I mean, it's incredible what we take for granted. We don't think about these things when we're using them in the moment. We're frustrated because my Tesla, you know, autopilot wouldn't let me text currently while I'm driving. It's like, damn it, I've got something, you know? It's awesome.

• 18:28Rich Roll?

  At the same time, lifespan is declining. We're pretty unhealthy across the modern, developed world, increasingly more and more unhealthy due to environmental reasons, our food environments, et cetera.

• 18:42Peter Diamandis?

  Our food companies and pharma companies are killing us.

• 18:44Rich Roll?

  We may be, you know, god-like in certain qualities, but are we healthier? Are we happier? It's an interesting... Tension or conundrum because there are all of these advances and all these possibilities. At the same time, we're dealing with a population that is that's experiencing, you know, chronic lifestyle ailments, you know, at epidemic levels right now. So it's weird, right? It's weird that we know more than we ever have. We've got tools to advance health in ways we never previously had, and yet we're so unhealthy.

• 19:15Peter Diamandis?

  And, you know, I just I'm developing, I'm writing a book for Simon and Sister with Stephen Kotler called Age of Abundance, which will come out in 2026. And it's a continuation of my 2012 book. And the argument for increasing abundance in the world, access to food, water, energy, healthcare, education, all these things is just up and to the right. But we also have an abundance of microplastics and abundance of depression and abundance of obesity and empty calories and all of these elements, which we need to address. And those are very real. Our food system is immoral. And, you know, I hope the new administration will will transform that.

• 19:58Peter Diamandis?

  It's the first time I have any hope of that. But, you know, today's, you know, children's cereals should have black box warnings on them with the amount of sugars in there. It's killing us.

• 20:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Even since we last spoke, there's been an increase in receptivity and awareness around these ideas. There's people on social media who are really, you know, pushing the outer boundaries of what's possible, sharing their stories about this. At the same time, that always comes with pushback, like there's there's like increasing kind of like dismissiveness or resistance to these ideas. Like, how are you seeing the world at large in terms of how receptive they are to kind of what you have to share around this idea?

• 20:40Peter Diamandis?

  Listen, I I'm sure I'm in my own echo chamber, to be clear.

• 20:47Peter Diamandis?

  As many of us are, but so far, I think post-COVID, people care a lot more about their health than they ever had. And I'm getting a very positive response to the notion that you can become the CEO of your own health and that there are things that you could and should do right now. And, you know, listen, a lot of, some things are expensive, but a lot of them are free. Right. And I think that people just need to know and then have the motivations to implement them. They have to care about, they have to feel agency, they have to understand

• 21:29Peter Diamandis?

  the power this has for them, the benefits it has for them, and that they can move the needle. If you don't believe that, you're not going to do it.

• 21:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, you're the moonshot guy. It's fun to talk about like, what is it going to look like in 30 years, 50 years? Let's focus on now what's exciting now, these, you know, kind of emerging protocols with things like, you know, NAD plus and rapamycin and, you know, you're deep into all that stuff. It can speak fluently about, you know, what we should know and understand about these things. But fundamentally, like, and as you lay out, you know, pretty bluntly in the book, most of these things don't cost money. It's like diet, exercise, sleep.

• 22:13Peter Diamandis?

  Mindset.

• 22:14Rich Roll?

  Mindset. And these are things we all have to deal with.

• 22:18Peter Diamandis?

  And we've known about this for centuries.

• 22:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 22:21Peter Diamandis?

  You know, there's ancient Greek writings about the importance of these things. And still, people haven't done it. There is something coming to support them there, besides, you know, my longevity guidebook, and it's going to be the power of AI.

• 22:39Peter Diamandis?

  To be your coach, your supporter, to help you remember what you set out you want to do. AI systems, you know, we're not far from Jarvis from Iron Man, where your AI is there saying, don't eat that, first have a glass of water, or there's stairs right on the corner, take those instead of the elevator, or you're at 9,000 steps, take a quick walk before dinner, get to 10,000.

• 23:10Rich Roll?

  This thing is so annoying. It's nagging me.

• 23:14Peter Diamandis?

  You're gonna have the option to turn it on or turn it off, but you have to have the motivation. So that's one part. I mean, Arianna Huffington has a program called Thrive Global, which is used inside of companies. These are micro steps. It's remembering, I mean, there are little things like taking a deep breath just before eating to put yourself into parasympathetic. There's like, the order in which you eat your food matters, right? If you eat your veggies first, which is your fiber, it will slow down your digestive tract, allow you to absorb the nutrients, and then eat your protein. And then, if you have room still left, eat your carbs.

• 23:59Rich Roll?

  But every restaurant brings the bread basket out first.

• 24:02Peter Diamandis?

  Bread and wine, right? And there's a reason they do that. I mean, we're all being manipulated in that fact. The bread and the wine spikes your blood glucose, and then spikes your insulin, and then you get hungry, and you order more food. You just have to decide whether you want to take control of your own situation or not.

• 24:19Rich Roll?

  On the diet piece, we don't need to belabor it. I mean, you make it pretty simple. It's basically-

• 24:26Peter Diamandis?

  Sugar is a poison.

• 24:27Rich Roll?

  Whole food, yeah, no sugar, whole foods, close to their natural state, mostly plants. You know, you have a whole section on protein, and your thoughts on protein, particularly as we age, and why it becomes more important in terms of maintaining and building muscle mass, which becomes increasingly more difficult the older we get. You look pretty good, you look super fit. I know you work out every single day.

• 24:50Peter Diamandis?

  Well, at least five days a week. I like to say every day, but yeah.

• 24:54Rich Roll?

  How is your ability to recover? Like, what have you learned from your fitness regimen that works and doesn't work? Do you need to take a little bit more time in between the more intense workouts?

• 25:06Peter Diamandis?

  No, I know what works for me right now, which is I'll do a 35, 40 minute workout, the same workout every day. I don't follow the experts of, you know, doing upper body and lower body and so forth. When I have time, I execute on my workout. And, you know, I've gone from a state of last year focusing on building 10 pounds of muscle mass to this year really maintaining that muscle mass, which by the way has so many different benefits, including helping to minimize your injury. Because as we get older, injury is our greatest, greatest threat. And so muscle mass helps you to maintain balance and on a fall, maintain your skeletal system in place.

• 25:51Peter Diamandis?

  But I do think that exercise is the number one pro longevity thing you can do for yourself, especially if you're in your late 50s or into your over 60s. And it's a matter of having the motivation to do it. You know, so I try and prioritize it really first thing in the morning, when I've got most control of my schedule and where I have the most willpower. You know, your willpower erodes as you go through the night, which is why, you know, getting your cheesecake at midnight snack is just the opposite thing you're supposed to do.

• 26:30Rich Roll?

  So it's some combination of strength training, high intensity training and so on?

• 26:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so it's strength, muscle mass, and then the other thing is stimulating mitochondria. Right? So one of the things, you know, I'm on too many boards and when I'm sitting on my butt in a board meeting is like the worst thing. I think of sitting as the new smoking. And so I've got a techno gym bike. Where I will basically hop on the bike and maintain my heart rate at about 110 beats per minute. And it's my zone two training and it's meant to stimulate my mitochondria. And then a few times a week, I'll do high intensity interval training where it's like

• 27:14Peter Diamandis?

  60 seconds of as fast as I can go, get my heart rate up to 145 beats per minute, 60 seconds of just nothing, and then, and then cycle through that. And again, all of this is about signaling your mitochondria that they're loved, they're needed, please replicate. Yeah.

• 27:32Rich Roll?

  And it will continue to kind of love you back in kind as long as you keep doing it.

• 27:39Peter Diamandis?

  It will. And there's incredible work being done in the lab right now to stimulate all of these things. You know, I think one thing I write about in the book that's very, that's an important frame for me is that we're all born with 3.2 billion letters from your mom and from your dad. And that's your software you're running. And you've got the same software when you're born, when you're 20, when you're 50, when you're 100. Why do you look different? And it turns out, it's not the genes you have, it's your epigenome. Epi from the Greek word for above. And it's which genes are on and which genes are off.

• 28:24Peter Diamandis?

  And as we age, the right genes turn off, they get silenced, the wrong genes get turned on, and we have this genetic drift. And so the question is, when we talk about reversing aging, it's can you bring back your epigenome so the, the right genes get, stay on and turned on? And there's so many drugs and cellular medicines in development right now to help you do that. And that's exciting of what's coming. When we're ready to talk about that, there's one in particular that I find fascinating.

• 28:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's put a pin on that for now, just kind of staying with the top level stuff that is accessible to everyone. I love the fact that you drew conscious attention to oral health. I think that this is really overlooked and not discussed enough in the context of how important it is. I mean, you just think, oh, well, of course, you don't want diseased gums or infections and bad breath and the like. You want your teeth to be white, etc. But the connection between oral health and cardiovascular disease and neurocognitive disease is very real.

• 29:33Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So your mouth is very close to your brain, and there are a lot of blood vessels, very blood vessel rich. And you have constantly organisms that are moving into your bloodstream from your mouth. And if you've got gum disease, gingivitis and such, that protective layer erodes, and you're at increased risk for cardiovascular and neurocognitive disease. And I have really tripled down on it. And I have a section in the book that talks about

• 30:14Peter Diamandis?

  oral health, but also in my routines. And I have increased that because as you get older, you're more vulnerable there. So I won't go into all of the elements here, and people can read about it. But it's not just brushing your teeth twice a day, which is a minimum, right? And if you're a smoker, obviously, don't smoke. That really causes havoc in your dental and oral situation.

• 30:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the link with heart disease is something that I learned when I was a teenager. I had all these periodontal problems and had to have like curatage. And I used to have massive infections in my mouth all the time. And those infections get into your system and lead directly towards arterial damage.

• 30:59Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, 100%.

• 31:01Rich Roll?

  What's cool is that you do, in the book, you like, not only do you have like, here's, you know, here's what the science says about all these various things, you're like, here's what I do, and you go through like, your whole day, and like, here's my protocol and exactly what I do.

• 31:13Peter Diamandis?

  This book started as a request from a friend to tell me what-

• 31:18Rich Roll?

  Just tell me what to do.

• 31:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Rich Roll?

  I don't want to read 700-page book.

• 31:21Peter Diamandis?

  Well, that was the difference, Life Force was a big book with beautiful stories, and Tony's amazing, and he and I worked on it for like, 18 months, and interviewed so many people. But at the end of the day, people are like, like, just what do you do? Like, what do you take? What pills do you take? What's your routines? And it grew from a 10-page document, Word document, to like, 50 pages, to 100 pages, like, screw it, I'm just gonna turn this into a book.

• 32:04Rich Roll?

  On the subject of what exactly should I be doing, what is your perspective on Brian Johnson and his Blueprint Protocol? Like, what is, like, where do you agree with him? Where do you, like, look at that and say, like, no, no, no?

• 32:21Peter Diamandis?

  So, I've known Brian for a decade. I was one of the very first phone calls he made when he sold Braintree's company. And he became an investor in one of my companies, called Human Longevity, Inc. And he became an investor, joined the board, became very involved there. Both he and I got disillusioned with the direction HLI was going, I won't go into the details, but broke off. And then, he ended up going into the brain-computer interface space. And it was- Fascinating to see him get back into the longevity space.

• 33:00Peter Diamandis?

  So I think a lot of the stuff he's doing is fascinating experimentation on himself. And the fact that he's so open to sharing the details is awesome. I honestly don't want to hear about his erections. I think he's, you know, just gone overboard in a number of the areas, which is, you know, we live in a clickbait society and he's generating a lot of clickbait.

• 33:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, he knows how to get attention. He knows how to get people engaged, whether that's good or bad. I don't know, like he's drawn a lot of attention to himself and there's a lot of interest and curiosity around him as a figure because he's a very kind of, you know, unique expression of humanity.

• 33:42Peter Diamandis?

  He's an extremist.

• 33:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and like, I'm kind of glad he's out doing all that kind of stuff and the transparency with which he shares it. I mean, he knows how to like, you know, kind of make the video that's going to get everyone to click on it. And he's sort of like an explorer in this world and most of this stuff maybe isn't going to work, but at least somebody's out there trying it and reporting back.

• 34:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 34:02Rich Roll?

  I guess. I went to one of his, you know, kind of Jeffersonian dinners where the question is posed, like you mentioned, the AI that's going to kind of help you make the right decisions. And the question that provides the structure for the discussion is basically like, if there's a super intelligence, would you basically relinquish your agency over to it? If it was going to always make, you know, help you make the decision that's going to drive the optimal health outcome with the caveat that you can't opt out, like you have to do what it says and you can't like cancel your membership or whatever. Which is a provocative question because we want to think that we, you know, know what makes me human is my agency and, and our instinct that, you know, we do make good decisions on our own behalf.

• 34:47Peter Diamandis?

  Which we don't.

• 34:48Rich Roll?

  Is, yeah, it's confronting because we actually don't, right? And so it sort of provokes an interesting conversation.

• 34:54Peter Diamandis?

  Listen, I think anything that helps society as a whole begin to envision an increasing control over their health, over their longevity is a good thing. I do that work through my books, my podcasts, my Fountain Life. I just don't talk about my erections.

• 35:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 35:19Rich Roll?

  You have to have some zone of privacy, Peter. I respect you for that. I want to talk about diagnostics because I think this, and I know we talked about this a little bit last time, but to me, this seems like the most kind of powerful set of tools that are, I mean, they're expensive, but like if you're thinking about like, I don't want to just, you know, treat a disease when I get it. I want to, I want to prevent it. Like early detection with the advances that we're seeing in these diagnostic tools that can literally identify diseases, you know, in their very early stages when they actually can be treated, I think is really the future of where, you know, healthcare should be going. Is it going in that direction? You have found life and you have this clinic, but like, what is the adoption, you know, kind of mentality around this?

• 36:04Peter Diamandis?

  So, you know, the basic question is, when is the best time to find disease, right? It's at inception, at stage zero. And, you know, I'm in a room of a thousand people giving a keynote on longevity or AI, and I'll ask, how many of you here are absolutely sure there's nothing going on inside your body you need to know about? And no one raises their hand, right? Because when you stop and you think about it, you honestly have no idea what's going on inside your body. But you can know, and you, I don't want to say should know, you need to know. So here are some numbers. 70% of individuals who

• 36:45Peter Diamandis?

  die from a cancer, die from a cancer that is never tested routinely, that we don't routinely test for. They die from a glioblastoma or pancreatic cancer. They don't die from breast or colon or prostate, right? Because we test for that. Well, that's great, but guess what? You die from the other ones. When you have a cancer, God forbid, you don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four.

• 37:12Peter Diamandis?

  You don't feel anything at the very beginning. And you go into the hospital with a pain in your side and the doctor says, "I'm sorry to tell you this, but you've got so-and-so. I just found out this week that a dear friend of mine, one of my closest high school friends, has metastatic pancreatic cancer with a week left to live." And I was in tears yesterday hearing about this. And it's like, we don't know what's going on in our bodies. But you can. You know, 70% of people who have a heart attack don't have any precedent, no shortness

• 37:51Peter Diamandis?

  of breath, even nothing, a calcium escort is meaningless because it's the soft plaque that can kill you, that can evulse, erupt in the middle of the night, block coronary artery, deprive the muscle tissue of your heart from oxygen and glucose, and then that tissue's dead. So, the realization is, you know, I'm a pilot, I fly a couple planes, and before I get into the airplane, I check all the systems, I look at all the gauges, making sure everything's working well. But we know more about our cars and our refrigerators than we do inside of our bodies. But you can know. And if you can know, I think you want to know. People go, "Oh, no, no, I don't want to know."

• 38:35Rich Roll?

  That's the thing. There is a fear around it. Like, if I go do that, I'm gonna find something out, I feel okay, like, you know, no thank you.

• 38:43Peter Diamandis?

  And the reality is, you're gonna find out. Eventually, you want to find out when you can do something about it, or when it's too late. You know, the person who walks into the hospital with a pain, and the doctor says, "I'm sorry to tell you, you have this, this, and this."

• 38:58Peter Diamandis?

  They didn't get it that morning. It's been going on for some time. So Tony Robbins, Bill Cap, Bob Hury and I started an organization, a company called Fountain Life. And Fountain is, we have four centers today. We'll be adding in New York, our headquarters in Orlando, Naples, Florida, Dallas. We'll be adding four more LA next year, which I'm excited about, at the Fairmont Hotel. The Ritz Carlton in ours in Phoenix, in Houston, and then there's one more location, probably in England. And then we've got a runway of 25 more.

• 39:41Peter Diamandis?

  And it's a membership model where people come, and it's not just a upload. We basically extract 200 gigabytes of data about you. It's a full body MRI, a brain, brain vasculature MRI, a coronary CT of your lung with an AI overlay, I'm sorry, of your heart, looking for soft plaque, low dose lung CT, DEXA scan, iris scan, skin scan, metabolomics, blood chemistries, your microbiome, your full genome. It's everything noble about you to answer two questions. Is there anything going on inside you right now that you need to know about? And I'll tell you what the data is right now.

• 40:26Peter Diamandis?

  And then the second is what's likely to happen to you? And how do we optimize you and prevent it? Of our first five, 6,000 members, 2% of them have a cancer they don't know about. 2.5% have an aneurysm they don't know about. And 14.4% have either metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease. It's like, we're all optimists about our health.

• 40:52Rich Roll?

  So when that person comes in, you do this battery of tests, you have all of this data. Let's say you fall into that category of, you know, maybe you don't have any identifiable cancer, but hey, listen, there's some, there's some heart disease on the horizon here. We see these plaques, et cetera. You know, how do you then develop a protocol to like move them away from that?

• 41:17Peter Diamandis?

  So that's really important. One of the things you don't want to do is get a data dump.

• 41:24Peter Diamandis?

  And then just say goodbye, right? I mean, like, there are companies out there that will do an MRI scan for you. They'll give you a printout and you're on your own. So what we did with Fountain Life is we created a wraparound medical care, concierge care around that. So besides the upload, which takes about four and a half, five hours, you get a functional medicine longevity physician, right? And functional medicine is really important. For me, it's the highest level. It's the root cause training that physicians get. It's very rare. It's going to be increasing. It's understanding at a molecular level, why is there a disease?

• 42:09Peter Diamandis?

  You don't look at the organ. It's what's going on at a cellular level that's causing that situation. So you get a functional medicine doctor, you get a nurse, you get a dietitian and a health coach that are with you for the entire year. And the goal is, here's our, I mean, I just, I got texted by Mona, my Fountain Life doctor this morning, how are you feeling? What's going on? Are you feeling excellent? I said, well, I got this and this. And he said, okay, I'm on it. Right? So you've got a support team. And then you're testing through the year. So I take 75, 80 supplements right now, medicines, I mean, which is a ridiculous number. A ridiculous number. I know, I know.

• 42:52Peter Diamandis?

  And in the book, I talk about what I take and exactly why. Mm-hmm. And I didn't start with 80. I got up there. My mom keeps on saying, Peter, how do you know these things don't like interfere with each other? And I say, Mom, you're, I don't actually, but we will know. But I measure my, my blood's biomarkers and everything at least a quarterly basis. And I modify everything, like, okay, I want to increase this, decrease this. And I do publish that data. And I'm learning. I'm learning about my body. Eventually, an AI will be doing this for me autonomously and just constantly optimizing.

• 43:36Peter Diamandis?

  And I think that's, that's within the next three years that's coming.

• 43:41Rich Roll?

  It's a curious thing, though, this like focus on self-optimization. You know, I have concerns around like the obsessiveness with which a lot of people kind of like interact with these with these ideas in a way that they're kind of

• 43:56Peter Diamandis?

  Missing life.

• 43:57Rich Roll?

  It's a way to distract you from living your life, like if you're so focused on like metrics all the time. And there's something that's at cross purposes with true health span, which is kind of making your life about something bigger than yourself and investing in other people and all of that. And all of this inward gaze, you know, I think sometimes I think moves people away from other aspects of life that are important in order to kind of, you know, enjoy the fullness of this experience.

• 44:27Peter Diamandis?

  I get it. I get it. But the reality is my number one pro longevity activity is my two 13 year old boys. Right? Just love spending time with them and they keep me young. I had kids when I was 50. And, you know, the work that I do is very fulfilling for me with the X Prize Foundation and Singularity and Abundance 360, and the books that I write. And I have a very rich community. But I'm exploring and I'm building businesses in

• 45:02Peter Diamandis?

  this area. And it's going to become something eventually, if it's three years, five years, where the systems are in place, where this happens in the background mode. Right? So I'm wearing an Oura ring, an Apple Watch, I've got a Dexcom. And this is going to my my phone right now. I have on my phone, my my Fountain Life AI where all of my data from all of my scans and all my blood tests are constantly downloaded. And I can talk to my AI and ask it like, what happened recently and so forth. Eventually, your AI is going

• 45:45Peter Diamandis?

  to become your health partner to help you achieve your goals, set your goals. And I'm going to tell you what to take. You know, listen, lean on, you know, lay off the the red meat this week. If you want, if you want, I mean, people have to make a decision. Are they happy with the 80 years they've got? Would they like 100 years? It's up to everybody individually.

• 46:10Rich Roll?

  What do your boys, your twins, think about all this? Are they into it?

• 46:15Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, listen, that 13-year-old boys are gonna make fun of their dad.

• 46:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:20Peter Diamandis?

  You know, so I tell them, I mean, we will always be 50 years apart. I said, when you're 50 and you've got kids, I want to be there to enjoy you. When you're 100, well, we'll see if I'm still around.

• 46:35Rich Roll?

  Like, how does the traditional mainstream medical establishment, like, respond to you and what you're doing and like what you're doing at Fountain? Like, do you see movement? Is it changing? Is it evolving into a more kind of like functional embrace of all of these ideas? Or is it still entrenched and stuck in its ways?

• 46:57Peter Diamandis?

  Listen, there are those on the edge of the system that are peering over, super curious and seeing, wow, I'd like to learn more. There are those who say, and we see this all the time with our members, my doc told me not to do this because you'll find something. And it's like, okay, it's kind of strange. I mean, we've saved hundreds and hundreds of lives. And I'm very proud of what our teams have done. What's strange is, is that, you know, it used to be that the resolution of a lot of these tests were not very high.

• 47:39Peter Diamandis?

  And you would discover through an MRI or CT what was called an incidental oma, like something that-

• 47:46Rich Roll?

  Like a relic, a shadow of something that you misinterpreted.

• 47:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, and it's like, oh, you're gonna find it, you're gonna go pursue it. Guess what? You know, what we're doing now at Fountain is what I call multimodal diagnostics. It's not just the image. It's the image plus your blood chemistries, plus your genetics.

• 48:04Peter Diamandis?

  Plus, we do a GRAIL Gallery test, which is a blood test looking for free-floating DNA from potential cancer cells. And you get signal information from multiple different places. And it's the integration of all of that that gives you a high likelihood that something is going on that we need to dig into deeper.

• 48:25Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:26Peter Diamandis?

  It's not the way it was 20 years ago. There's a lot of progress that's been made.

• 48:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, this idea that you don't do a test unless there's something wrong, right? It's sort of like, like, don't take so many pictures with your camera because there's only 24 frames on a roll. Like, we're not in that world anymore. You know what I mean?

• 48:43Peter Diamandis?

  That's a great version.

• 48:44Rich Roll?

  It goes back to mindset, like, what is your mindset around this? Like, why is your reflex, like, don't test unless there's something wrong?

• 48:50Peter Diamandis?

  By the time there's something wrong, it's maybe too late.

• 48:54Rich Roll?

  But I think it's a mindset that's a reflection of a paradigm that's slowly eroding as we kind of enter this new paradigm. And I would suspect that, at least among, you know, the younger generation of doctors, you know, they're the ones who are peering over the fence and interested in these things. Like, you don't go into medicine unless you want to, like, you know, promote health and you're interested in the well-being of the patients you're going to be treating. But they're stuck in a business model that prevents them from being able to do that. And I think, you know, what is happening is people like yourself are creating viable business models out there that show a different way of practicing medicine, where you don't have to restrict yourself to that 15-minute period and, you know, get your prescription pad out.

• 49:38Peter Diamandis?

  Well, it's like seven minutes. Seven minutes these days.

• 49:40Rich Roll?

  Is it seven?

• 49:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's like, I got seven minutes to see this patient and move them through. It's awful. And then on top of that, you've got the fact that it's not a healthcare system, it's a sick care system. It's waiting for things to break before you address them.

• 49:57Rich Roll?

  The problem is getting buy-in from the insurance companies. I mean, that's what really is going to shift it. And that is only going to be accomplished when you can convince these conglomerates that they're going to save money by covering the procedures that are going on in your clinic. I had, you know, Robin Burson, Dr. Robin, she has a series of clinics called Parsley Health, and she has gotten, it's functional medicine. She's in New York, but there's clinics and a lot of it's virtual online. But she's getting real buy-in from the big players in insurance. And I think that's the real kind of like paradigm shifter here.

• 50:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I mean, this has been private pay.

• 50:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's expensive.

• 50:39Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, the fountain Apex membership is nineteen thousand five hundred bucks. It's expensive, right?

• 50:44Rich Roll?

  A year, right?

• 50:45Peter Diamandis?

  Per year, per year.

• 50:46Rich Roll?

  To be a member of this thing, it's like out of reach for.

• 50:48Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, for the majority of all people, I fully know that. You know, it's not just the testing, right? The most expensive part is the wraparound medical care. It's the humans in the loop. And we're going to demonetize that. We're going to get, you know, the new imaging systems are becoming cheaper, where AI radiologists are actually going to become, are probably, and will maintain being better than human radiologists. And then the human in the loop will be partially in the loop, but AIs will be that. So we're going to see a cost reduction over time. We've just announced something called a core membership, which is sixty five hundred dollars, trying to make it more affordable.

• 51:31Peter Diamandis?

  And it's for companies to provide to their employees. So, you know, listen, I teach this, and most people may know me as a technologist, as a, you know, sort of AI tech entrepreneur. And I teach the idea of the six Ds of exponentials, that when you can digitize something, you dematerialize, demonetize, and democratize those things, right? So the cell phone, the original camera, digital camera, was from Kodak, when you digitized it, it, you know, dematerialized the phone into your handset here and demonetized and democratized access. But in the beginning, it's deceptively slow change.

• 52:15Peter Diamandis?

  Right. It took like 20 years for the digital camera to go from something in the lab to something that was, you know, disrupting Kodak. And then it becomes disruptive. And so we're going to see that level of change. We're going to see AIs in your home and sensors on your body. In fact, we have at Fountain, we have a program called Fountain at Home, which is how do we move all of this into your home? So into your bed, your chair, your urinal. So you're constantly uploading data to your AI at little to no cost so that you're constantly being monitored to find the disease at the very beginning. These changes are coming.

• 53:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, all you have to do is think about the CRISPR example and how complicated and how expensive was it to like, you know, map the genome at the beginning?

• 53:11Peter Diamandis?

  It's $3 billion for the first genome. Then Craig Venter did it for 100 million and it's down below 500 bucks now. I just saw a company report that they think they can do a $10 genome. And then the world changes, right? You go in for dental checkup and they'll sequence your genome to decide which, which is the best anesthetic for your mouth. Or you, every kid born, my niece just had a baby today. You know, it's like, it isn't routine to sequence the genome, but every child should be sequenced because it will tell you about their early years before they can communicate. I mean, there's a lot, the world's about to change in a medical health realm.

• 53:51Rich Roll?

  Imagine you, you suddenly became Surgeon General or you were, you had some like role of power where you could kind of like, you know, make these things happen at scale. Like what, what would that look like, like right now with the technology that is currently available without thinking about like what's on the horizon?

• 54:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. The very first thing is what RFK is working on is reinvent our food system because our, our food system is killing us. Ultra processed foods, sugar, salts, all of these things, the stuff that's cheap and tasty. It's destroying Americans' lives and I'm clear about that. That's the first and foremost. You know, there might be educational programs we put in place, but then it's.

• 54:40Peter Diamandis?

  You know, what we're finding has the most impact is MRI imaging to find aneurysms and cancer. There are programs under development that will take an MRI from an hour and effectively, you know, a couple of thousand dollars down to 10 minutes and a couple hundred bucks. I've seen the tech. So helping that move along and then putting that where it's accessible to everybody. And, you know, a lot of companies, companies don't realize how much money they could save

• 55:22Peter Diamandis?

  on their healthcare and on lost days of work and on replacing employees if they just put a sliver of money into helping your employee feel better and be in a better health. So I think those things, I mean, one of the X prizes I want to do, so as you know, I run this X Prize Foundation for 30 years now. I'm chairman of it. Anusha Ansari, who's our CEO, runs it. We just launched a $101 million prize for extending the healthy human lifespan by 20 years.

• 56:03Peter Diamandis?

  But another prize I want is we should be able to create a suite of sensors that is on your body, that's measuring five or six key parameters into an AI, and then the AI providing feedback to optimize your health, your practices. Thrive Global that Arianna runs does similar things, but without the easy access to data. So I think sensors and AI are going to give us a way to really, in background mode, make

• 56:43Peter Diamandis?

  sure we're healthy, we're developing healthy habits, we're putting ourselves into a parasympathetic mode, where when we're stressed, we're doing the right things to reduce that stress. I think all of these things are coming in and should be implemented.

• 57:00Rich Roll?

  I think that the real opportunity is in the synthesis of all the data to help us really understand what's important, along with guidance around how to move the needle in the right direction. Because right now, we have lots of sensors. I'm wearing a Whoop, you've got an Aura, whether it's Levels or whatever patch you have on that's monitoring your glucose levels. We have sleep metrics. We have a lot of data already at this point. And I think the average consumer looks at it and tries to draw conclusions, and these apps provide some kind of feedback, but it's very general. And I don't know that it's necessarily all that helpful yet.

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  And none of these things are talking to each other. So we're not treating any of these things holistically. We're picking and choosing, and we're making up our own minds about the inferences that we're making from these data sets. We're not qualified to really understand the nuances of what HRV means and the variations. When we wake up and we see what it is, what we're supposed to do with that. You know what I mean?

• 58:10Peter Diamandis?

  And what we could do through the day to increase our HRV or prepare ourselves for sleep. And I do think we're going to have these AI health coaches. And I think they are going to be something which ultimately is free, because your company will pay for it, because it increases your productivity, your energy levels, it reduces healthcare costs and so forth. And the economics will be strongly in favor of giving it to your employee.

• 58:39Rich Roll?

  There's a little Orwellian overtone to that.

• 58:42Peter Diamandis?

  Maybe. Maybe you can opt out. But do you remember Progressive Car Insurance had a box they could put in your car that would monitor the acceleration of, like, did you brake hard? Do you accelerate fast? All of that? Did you have an accident? And if you put this in your car, they gave you a much lower insurance rate. Now, is that Orwellian? Maybe. Do I want the lower insurance rate? Sure.

• 59:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 59:08Peter Diamandis?

  And is it gonna make me a safer-

• 59:09Rich Roll?

  Are they reporting that to your employer, though?

• 59:11Peter Diamandis?

  But is it making you a safer driver? Is it making you a healthier person? I mean, listen, I think, you know, one of my favorite sayings is the man or woman who has their health has a thousand dreams and the man or woman who does not has but one. And so, don't you want your health? If there are little things you could do through the day and it was easy for you, why not? I mean, maybe you don't, maybe you had a death wish, that's fine, but that's not all of us. I think it's important to realize that this is a very different time than the last 20, 30, 50 years. We're beginning to understand fundamentally, why do we age?

• 59:54Peter Diamandis?

  What is going on? And so, one of the things we do at Fountain is we're searching the world for high-reward, low-risk therapeutics. Things that can make you feel better, younger, and actually measurably do this. You know, I've got this $101 million HealthSpan Prize that's focused on reversing the functional loss in muscle immune cognition. So that with a year of therapy, a year of therapeutic, if the winning team pulls it off, you've got your ability to build muscle you had when you were 20 years younger, you've

• 1:00:37Peter Diamandis?

  got the ability to mount an immune reaction like you did 20 years younger, and your span of memory and such is what it was. So, we have 460 teams in that competition. And the stuff that we're seeing is amazing. Some of those will flow into centers like Fountain Life. One of the ones I'm excited about is a company called Immunos. We've just announced a partnership with them. We're gonna make this available to our members at no cost in part of a Phase II FDA trial. And Hans Kirsten is the CEO, and he's developed a product which is-

• 1:01:18Peter Diamandis?

  It's the exosomes and growth factors being put out by a specific kind of young stem cell. And he's characterized it and he's been able to reproduce this consistently. It has 440 parts that it puts out, growth factors, MRNAs, exosomes. And that's the drug. And he gives it on a weekly basis. His phase one trial of 18 patients, I think it was aged like 55 to 75. These are people who have severe osteoarthritis. They're in pain, they can't walk. Here are the results from their phase one trial. No negative side effects at all.

• 1:02:01Peter Diamandis?

  The members had a reduction in pain between 50 to 70% consistently. They had an increase in muscle mass. And remember, these people are effectively bedridden or chairridden. An increase in muscle mass by 6%. A reduction in their immune age by 30 years and a reduction in whole body inflammation by 50%.

• 1:02:30Rich Roll?

  All other variables?

• 1:02:31Peter Diamandis?

  Held constant.

• 1:02:32Rich Roll?

  Checked. What was the sample size on that?

• 1:02:34Peter Diamandis?

  18.

• 1:02:35Rich Roll?

  18.

• 1:02:36Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so it's small, but it was consistent across all of them. And they're doing a large scale study next.

• 1:02:43Rich Roll?

  What was the timeline?

• 1:02:44Peter Diamandis?

  It's over three months.

• 1:02:46Rich Roll?

  Three months.

• 1:02:47Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So it was a weekly injection over that period of time. And then the six minute walk test increased by like 150% or something like that. The point is, it was like, this is incredible that this, these young stem cell growth factors were signaling the body to reverse its functional age. And so it's stuff like that that's in the lab right now that gives me tremendous hope. And there's a number of other similar type situations coming out of stem cells and other areas. So there's a lot coming.

• 1:03:31Peter Diamandis?

  And I think, I want people to have that longevity mindset, like, wow, if I can, if I take care of myself, right? And I write about those in the book, I can intercept these coming technologies.

• 1:03:44Rich Roll?

  I'm interested in parsing fact, not necessarily from fiction, but maybe fact from over eagerness. Like, there's a lot of interest in health span extension right now and longevity. There's a lot of "experts" out there saying lots of things. And I think for the average consumer, it's like, where do I find my footing in this? Like, what do I really need to know? People with products, etc. It's really hard to know. Like, what's efficacious here? Who's giving me the straight story about the most important things? And maybe a couple cherries on top, because it's fun and I have some disposable income,

• 1:04:25Rich Roll?

  versus somebody who's over-extrapolating from weak data sets to make claims that are a little bit out of their skis on.

• 1:04:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, for sure. You need to look at the data. You need to look at the scientists. You need to look at all of that, right? So I try, in Longevity Guidebook, to provide the data that I've been using to make my own decisions, right? And so the references are all there, and the study sizes are all quoted and so forth. And we're going to see a lot more in the years ahead. Is it still early days? Sure. But I would rather be alive today than 50... I was alive 50 years ago, but you know what I mean.

• 1:05:15Rich Roll?

  As was I.

• 1:05:16Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Rich Roll?

  So diet, sleep, exercise, stress levels, things like that, things that we all kind of already understand.

• 1:05:37Peter Diamandis?

  There's still the fundamentals that are critically important for us.

• 1:05:40Rich Roll?

  Right. But beyond that, when we start to... We talked about diagnostics, and as we kind of move into the newer frontiers of what we're seeing and understanding, and things that you're experimenting with, with respective medical interventions, supplements, and hormone therapy and all the like, like, what is...

• 1:06:01Rich Roll?

  You know, what are some of the top level things that you think, you know, move the needle are important for people to understand and worthy of their own exploration? It's always like for whom and when, like, you know, in the book, you're always like, look, this is, you could see everything I'm doing, but like, you know, everybody's different.

• 1:06:18Peter Diamandis?

  I say that over and over again.

• 1:06:19Rich Roll?

  But here's the thing, Peter, like, like, you know, Brian does the same thing, but people just want to do Brian's blueprint protocol exactly the way he does it like, because it just makes it easy. So anyway, go ahead.

• 1:06:30Peter Diamandis?

  Well, I mean, listen, it's not rocket science right now, to be clear. It is exercise. Just get your butt out of bed and, and exercise is the number one pro longevity thing. It reduces all cause mortality by threefold, your chance of cancer by 50%. If you're over 16 exercising, just get those muscles moving, resistance exercise, right? Lift some weights, go and walk.

• 1:06:58Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, I can't say it more clearly. Get eight hours of sleep. Our body needs sleep. If we had, if we were able to get away with less time, evolution would have gotten rid of sleep. You are open for predation. You are not being productive. It is the most wasted time in the world. But it's not, you know, it's during sleep that you clear proteins from your brain. And if you're someone who's not sleeping, who's routinely, you know, just has a regular shift work and, and you're, you're shortchanging yourself. We're the only species on the planet that actively shortchanges the amount of sleep we get.

• 1:07:40Peter Diamandis?

  You have a massively increased chance of Alzheimer's or other neurocognitive diseases. And then I can't stress this enough. I love sugar just like everybody else.

• 1:07:53Peter Diamandis?

  But it is, you have to remember, our physiology, our genetics, maps against our evolution 200,000 years ago. And 200,000 years ago, there wasn't sugar in our diet. There was a little bit of fruit. There wasn't like sugarcane, none of this stuff. We went from like 100 years ago, like a couple of kilograms of sugar per person per year, to I think it's like 100 kilograms per person per year right now. And sugar is a neuroinflammatory, it's a cardiac inflammatory, it gloms on to proteins. Let me put it this way, we just

• 1:08:32Peter Diamandis?

  did a study at a fountain, looking at cardiovascular disease. And what was the highest thing that correlates with cardiovascular disease? Was it LDL, or HDL, or LP little a, or triglycerides? No. It was your hemoglobin A1C, which correlates to the amount of glucose in your bloodstream.

• 1:08:57Rich Roll?

  More than ApoB even?

• 1:08:59Peter Diamandis?

  More than everything. It was the number one correlate to cardiovascular disease.

• 1:09:07Rich Roll?

  There has to be confounding variables with that, right? If somebody's eating a lot of sugar, what else are they doing? What are their habits like, etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting. What do you say to the carnivore enthusiasts? Because you're pretty clear on saturated fat, and you're kind of like a Dan Ornish guy.

• 1:09:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I will tend towards, and I think Dean is brilliant. If you haven't read his books, you should. But I tend towards a whole plant diet and fish. So I guess a pescatarian, one would say, more Mediterranean than anything else. I stay away from red meat. And that's a choice, again, from an inflammation standpoint.

• 1:09:47Peter Diamandis?

  But you know, I put on my muscle mass by taking in 150 grams of protein and creatine, and then working out five days a week and just doing it viciously consistently. Now my job is to maintain it.

• 1:10:00Rich Roll?

  So when you sit down and do a carnivore diet host podcast and he tells you, look, this is, you know, everything you've ever heard about saturated fat is wrong. I've never been healthier. This is the way to go.

• 1:10:15Peter Diamandis?

  So I have been on a hard keto diet and I have been for about a year and a bit, and I did a vegan diet for a year and a bit. Each have their advantages. Each have their advantages, but guess what? We are not all the same. It depends on your genetics, depends on where your family's origin is. Are you from Alaska? Are you from Africa? Are you from the Mediterranean? That will affect very much. It also depends upon what gut flora you're carrying, right? All of this is to a large degree impacted by the microbes, right? The 100 trillion microbes in your gut.

• 1:10:59Peter Diamandis?

  And so all these things affect, it's not as simple. I do know that you, I feel like I can't go wrong on the diet I'm on because it's, it's, my family is a Mediterranean family for generations back.

• 1:11:13Rich Roll?

  Where's the science in terms of, of what we can extrapolate from the gut microbiome in terms of, of, you know, kind of lifestyle guidance? Like you can, you can take a sample of the gut microbiome. Is the information that you're looking for in that, like, do we have the technology to, to learn from that and say, this is somebody who should be doing this and that and avoiding these foods and focusing more on these foods?

• 1:11:42Peter Diamandis?

  I believe it is there and getting stronger. Are you familiar with a company called Viome?

• 1:11:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:48Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So Naveen Jain runs Viome and they have a million plus samples where they take a, a blood, stool, and oral sample.

• 1:12:03Peter Diamandis?

  And they're looking at microbiome in, in your stool in your mouth and they're looking at the transcriptome. So one of the things that they did the work on, which I'm very proud of them for is your DNA is one thing, your RNA is another. So if you, you can, your DNA isn't change over time, right? You get the same DNA as you were when you were a kid. But what changes is which genes are being transcribed, right? And so the DNA is there, 22,000 genes in 3.2 billion letters of your life. And then as you grow older, or you change your diet, or you change your environment, some genes are turned off

• 1:12:48Peter Diamandis?

  and some genes are turned on. The genes are turned on, get transcribed, they get turned into RNA. And so if you measure the RNA, you then know which genes are active. And so that's what they've done. And they have like trillions of samples. And they've got a really strong AI team correlating that. They will give you a result of that based upon what's in your gut. These are the foods that are your superfoods. These are the foods that you should avoid. These are the foods that are okay. And again, it's the beginning of this journey, but it's definitely where we're going.

• 1:13:26Rich Roll?

  Given the fact that, that obesity is driving so many of these chronic lifestyle ailments, what, what are your thoughts on Ozempic and GLP-1s?

• 1:13:35Peter Diamandis?

  Wow. I'm frustrated by it. People want a get rich quick pill, or a get thin quickly pill. And for certain people who are morbidly obese, it's an important thing. But one of the things, if you're on Ozempic, this is your chance to use that relief from constant hunger to change your habits.

• 1:14:06Peter Diamandis?

  When you lose your weight on Ozempic, and I know you know this, you lose not only fat, but you lose muscle. And then when you go off Ozempic, you gain back mostly fat. And so if you're on Ozempic, it's there are two things you need to be doing. One is you need to be exercising on a regular basis. You need to maintain your muscle mass to the best of your ability. The second thing you'd be doing is using it to change the habits around your eating. And so that if you go off Ozempic, you are able to hopefully maintain those habits you got. What do you think about it?

• 1:14:44Rich Roll?

  I mean, I'm of a similar mind. You know, I'm certainly not, you know, shunning it. I think there's, you know, tremendous benefits for people who have really struggled to lose weight and have tried lots of things and for whatever reason, haven't been able to, you know, make it stick.

• 1:15:02Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Rich Roll?

  Certainly if you're morbidly obese, but even if you're, you know, kind of just less than morbidly obese, but overweight and have not been able to like crack the code, I, you know, I do see a path to better health, given that obesity is driving all of these other downstream chronic lifestyle ailments.

• 1:15:22Peter Diamandis?

  It is a big deal.

• 1:15:23Rich Roll?

  You can't dismiss that. The concern, of course, is exactly what you said. Like, I had Johann Hari on here, who just wrote a whole book about this, and he, you know, he looks great. He's lost a tremendous amount of weight, but he's basically like, I'm staying on this thing. Like, he has no intention of going off it. And he also, you know, sort of hasn't really done that piece of like trying to change his habits. Like, I'll just go to Kentucky Fried Chicken and eat less, or only go once in a while. And it's like, if you're still stuck in, in those bad habits, you're never going to reach escape velocity from, from Ozempic. And do we know what the long-term, you know, kind of risks of this are? I mean, I know there are already, like, aren't there?

• 1:16:06Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I mean, I write about it in the book.

• 1:16:08Rich Roll?

  Pancreas issues or something like that with this?

• 1:16:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, and there's also the ability to become, what's it called, ahadonic. It's like lose pleasure. And there is pancreatic risk. So there are things you can do.

• 1:16:22Peter Diamandis?

  To activate the same similar pathway. And it's pretty well known. I mean, number one is like chewing your food for like, like every bite 20 times. That will begin to activate slowing down your eating. Yeah, we are all, well, we are all. I have historically been someone who's shoveling food in my mouth as I'm on a phone call or on a Zoom or, you know, reading email. It's like, we don't take the time to sit and relax and enjoy a meal.

• 1:17:02Peter Diamandis?

  You know, I'm having a Friendsgiving tonight and, you know, it's going to be, I'm looking forward to slowing it down, right? So I come to the dinner table and drink a glass of water first off, take a few deep breaths, maybe do a gratitude circle. And this is what we used to do culturally, you know, decades ago before CNN hijacked our brains. And that puts you in a parasympathetic mode where you're in the best position to consume your foods. And then that idea of food sequencing of, of your veggies first, your protein next and your carbs last. And there are little things you can do like that.

• 1:17:46Peter Diamandis?

  And then remembering to just chew your food 20 times. I mean, if you take nothing else away from this, this conversation we're having for your listeners, I think those small things make a huge difference.

• 1:17:57Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:58Peter Diamandis?

  You'll lose weight just by sequencing your food differently.

• 1:18:01Rich Roll?

  Mindfulness, mindful eating.

• 1:18:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, mindful eating.

• 1:18:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04Peter Diamandis?

  So challenging in this rapid period.

• 1:18:08Rich Roll?

  We were talking a little bit about the fear that some people have of getting these diagnostic tests, like, I don't really want to know. I think a close cousin of that is, is this idea like, it's kind of too late for me. You know, I've been living my life a certain way, pretty stuck in my ways. At this point, you know, I'm 45, I'm 55, I'm 65, whatever it is. It goes back to mindset, but this idea of like, is any of this really going to make a difference at this point? Like, I've been living my life for 50 years in a certain way.

• 1:18:42Peter Diamandis?

  The answer is absolutely yes.

• 1:18:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I can always lose weight, but like, why should I, you know, like, go deep into all of this stuff at this point?

• 1:18:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, there are lots of studies preclinical, which means animal model studies, that show intervention even in the last decade of life can deliver additional healthy years to you. And part of what you want to do is remember that health span gap of 17 years between age 63 and 80. You want to enjoy those years. You don't want to, I mean, we spend an inordinate amount of money in hospital care and medical care in the last year or two years of your life, which is a ridiculous thing to do compared to having spent it earlier in your life.

• 1:19:31Peter Diamandis?

  And I just think that if you love life, love yourself, these are the actions to take.

• 1:19:40Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. The prevention piece is something we can all kind of understand. When we start talking about the reversal piece, then it's like, whoa. Is that really possible? It's related to the, is it too late piece? Because it's sort of like, all right, well, kind of, I'm where I'm at. Like, what do we know about things that can be reversed? And other things where it's like, well, let's just stop it in its track and like not, and make sure it doesn't progress any further.

• 1:20:07Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. I mentioned Immunus and their product, Immuna, earlier, which in my mind is a definitive reversal of your physiological age. Let's, you know, data will come out further.

• 1:20:22Rich Roll?

  What is the kind of mechanistic aspect of that? Like, what is it actually doing?

• 1:20:26Peter Diamandis?

  So, it is, when you're injecting this, uh, this product, these 440 factors from these stem cells into your, into your body, into your muscle, it is signaling your cells to revert to an earlier stage that you are vital. I mean, one of the things that's important is 100,000, 200,000 years ago, I go back to the evolutionary history here. You were pregnant by age 12 or 13. No birth control. And by the time you're 27 or 28, you're a grandparent. After the age of 30, there is a measurable, consistent decline.

• 1:21:09Peter Diamandis?

  Your stem cells throughout your body reduce by 100 to 1,000-fold in different compartments. Your hormone levels, pituitary, thyroid, your thymus is almost gone after age 30, which is what is educating your T-cells. Your muscle tissue begins to, you have sarcopenia, begins to erode. It's because the body was never designed to live past age 30. And it doesn't have the signals that I am a vital individual and we should keep all of these systems up and operating. So this particular product, and there are others. Cellularity has these stem cells and natural killer cells.

• 1:21:54Peter Diamandis?

  And there are other companies that were investigating. It's about giving your body the signal that I'm in a more youthful state. And the genes should switch back to how they were operating in a more youthful state. I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, I'm a moonshot guy, but I'm also someone who is willing to fight for what I want. And people have to make that choice.

• 1:22:21Rich Roll?

  For whatever reason, the longevity space is sort of bro-y. It's kind of like Silicon Valley, galaxy brain environment, for whatever reason. But I love the fact that you-

• 1:22:36Peter Diamandis?

  Can I tell you the reason, I think?

• 1:22:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, why? Is it because you've got megalomaniacs who want to live forever?

• 1:22:41Peter Diamandis?

  I don't think it's that.

• 1:22:42Rich Roll?

  That's the sort of narrative, right?

• 1:22:44Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure-

• 1:22:44Rich Roll?

  But certainly where the money, that's where the money is also for these innovations.

• 1:22:49Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, but I think there's a different reason. People in the tech field who have come in and revolutionized industries.

• 1:22:59Peter Diamandis?

  They've come in and reinvented rockets and reinvented cars.

• 1:23:04Rich Roll?

  They're predisposed to think differently and outside the box.

• 1:23:07Peter Diamandis?

  And they're willing to take on hard problems.

• 1:23:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I get that.

• 1:23:11Peter Diamandis?

  I haven't gotten Elon interested in longevity yet. He and I have texted back and forth and he just, he pokes at me. He says, I love donuts in the morning. I said, well, when you reach 60, let's have that conversation again.

• 1:23:23Rich Roll?

  I say all that only to kind of presage the fact that you have a whole section in here for women's health and what's different about women's health and what we need to understand about those differences in the context of longevity. I mean, I had, do you know Dr. Lisa Moscone?

• 1:23:40Peter Diamandis?

  I know her.

• 1:23:41Rich Roll?

  Wonderful, fantastic. She came in here and talked all about this. So I love that section. So what can you say about what's different about women's physiology that's important to know in this longevity conversation?

• 1:23:54Peter Diamandis?

  Just to call it out, our chief medical officer at Fountain Life, Dr. Helen Messier, who is an MD and a PhD, and she is one of the great functional medicine physicians. And when I was able to capture her with Bill Cap and myself, bring her in, that was like one of the most important days in this company to really imbue it. And then Mona Izat Villanov, who's my Fountain Life physician who works with me directly. So two amazing women. We actually have a lot of women physicians in the company. I think what she says that's important is women are not little men.

• 1:24:32Peter Diamandis?

  There is a different physiology and biology going on and it needs to be looked at uniquely. There's a section in here from Dr. Jennifer Garrison as well in that women's chapter, who runs a center for

• 1:24:51Peter Diamandis?

  I've changed her name recently. It's not if it's reproductive health, but she's done incredible amount of work on, you know, what happens after, after menopause and how do we extend? Do you know that humans are only one of five species that go through menopause?

• 1:25:09Rich Roll?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:25:10Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it's humans, it's the narwhal, and three species of whales. And then the millions of other species.

• 1:25:20Rich Roll?

  I just assumed, I guess, in my mind that, that it was a mammalian thing.

• 1:25:23Peter Diamandis?

  No, no, it's not. It's five species. Another interesting fact is that a woman has the most number of eggs in her ovaries when she is 28 weeks old as an embryo in her mom.

• 1:25:44Rich Roll?

  Just trying to.

• 1:25:45Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I know. It's a little mind bender. So, so your mom, when she was in your grandma's womb, and she was only 28 weeks in, in her, in her 40 week pregnancy, that was when she had the maximum number. So you were inside your grandma.

• 1:26:06Rich Roll?

  I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why is that meaningful?

• 1:26:10Peter Diamandis?

  It's that the number of our ovaries have two functions. There's reproductive organs, but they're also a hormonal set. And we forget about that. And women have a completely different set of medical physiological needs because of that. There's a correlation that the later your, if you have a sister, the later she went through menopause, the longer you as the brother are likely to live. Interesting correlation. So the book, the chapter walks through from a food, diet, exercise, supplements, your hormonal level, what, how women should think about it.

• 1:26:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's obviously like diet, exercise, all these other things like apply equally, but it's the hormonal piece where things get complicated. And, and it does need its own kind of, you know, treatment and understanding.

• 1:27:08Peter Diamandis?

  I didn't want to. You know, it is very different for 50% of the world, 50, 51% of the world, whatever it is. And I really wanted to have two incredible women lead that conversation in the book.

• 1:27:24Rich Roll?

  So I'm 58. If I came into Fountain Life prior to doing all the tests, just what are some things that you think, like I should be thinking about that maybe I didn't need to think about five or 10 years ago?

• 1:27:36Peter Diamandis?

  So your cardiovascular health is number one, right? It is still the number one killer for women and for men. And we think we're fine. And a lot of folks, years over the last decade or decades, would go for a calcium score. And you'd go, you'd take a CT of your heart, you're looking for calcified plaque on the arteries, and you had a calcium score, which is like zero and like 3,000, whatever it is. And if you're zero, oh, I'm fine. If it's a thousand, oh my, oh God, I'm worried about this. Well, it turns out your calcium score is immaterial. And people just now, in these last few years, are waking up to

• 1:28:16Peter Diamandis?

  that. Unless your coronary artery, again, is the artery that feeds oxygen and glucose to your heart muscle, and if your heart muscle isn't getting oxygen and glucose, it dies, and that's called a heart attack. If the coronary artery is blocked by calcium, you need to do something. It's a stent, or bypass, whatever. But if you have a zero calcium score, and you say, oh, great, I'm fine. You're not, not necessarily. So what we've learned is that it's soft plaque that's, that's on the outside of the arteries that

• 1:28:58Peter Diamandis?

  can evulse, can break off in the middle of the night, and block a coronary artery. And so what we do is we do something called a Clearly Scan. It's a, it's a AI-enabled technology that's able to, to recognize soft plaque differentially from calcium, from calcified plaque. And you get a score, and now, as part of Fountain, your ongoing membership, now we're going to identify, how do we convert that either to calcified plaques? So I think a calcified plaque is like cement on the side of the wall of a pipe. Or how do we reduce it?

• 1:29:41Peter Diamandis?

  And there's lots of different approaches and medicines and supplements and everything for that. But most people have no knowledge of that, and it's a ticking time bomb if you do. And again, you know, you may have a perfectly good triglyceride, and LDL, and HDL, and still have a soft plaque burden.

• 1:30:02Rich Roll?

  Is this form of testing new technology?

• 1:30:05Peter Diamandis?

  It is.

• 1:30:06Rich Roll?

  It is.

• 1:30:07Peter Diamandis?

  It's a new way of interpreting the CT, the tomography of your heart.

• 1:30:16Rich Roll?

  I see. So it's not the scan, it's the interpretation of the scan.

• 1:30:20Peter Diamandis?

  It's the AI overlay.

• 1:30:21Rich Roll?

  I see. I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, given that, you know, heart disease is the number one killer, and this is how most people are going to die, it feels like this should be, you know, appointment number one, and a test that should be kind of integrated into, you know, every general practitioner's rotation.

• 1:30:36Peter Diamandis?

  So the next thing after you've gotten clarity there is understanding what's going on in your biochemistry, your mitochondria, understanding your microbiome, understanding, you know, the blood biomarkers. Other things that we do have found, and this is really important for me, is toxin testing. You know, we're living in a very toxic world. Everything from water bottles that you're drinking out of to the environment you're in, mold. So most people just have no idea what their toxic load is. And if you don't know, you can't do anything about it. Then it's food allergies.

• 1:31:21Peter Diamandis?

  You know, are you gluten intolerant? Do you have, you know, allergies to other foods? Should you be eating, you know, I won't go in the list, but I've discovered like, oh my God, I should not be eating that food. So it's all of these things. We have the power to know now, to give you the option to make the choice.

• 1:31:43Rich Roll?

  What is your experience as somebody who deeply understands mindset? What is your understanding around behavior change when it comes to putting that knowledge into into action, right? Like, anybody who comes into one of your clinics costs a lot of money. They're going to be highly motivated. They're going to receive all this information. They're probably going to be in that cohort that's actually going to adopt the new behaviors. But what is the key distinguishing factor between the person who can hear news about how to change their life and then actually take the action versus the person who same information and yet just is like, can't do it, doesn't want to do it.

• 1:32:28Peter Diamandis?

  Do they have a support system that keeps this alive in their life? So it's different if you go through with your spouse or someone you love and you guys share your information and you're supporting each other. In lieu of that, you know, we've got a medical team who will text me like, have you done that test? Have you done the ProLon diet yet? You know, I want you to do that once every quarter.

• 1:32:57Rich Roll?

  Accountability.

• 1:32:59Peter Diamandis?

  Accountability. Yes, all those things.

• 1:33:01Rich Roll?

  Your social environment.

• 1:33:02Peter Diamandis?

  One example is, you know, I have my Abundance Summit. I mentor about 500 CEOs every March. And one of the things we've done after the summit every year is we have done a 21 day no sugar challenge where those who want to opt in get into a WhatsApp group. There is an incredible physician scientist who supports that for us. And he provides you sort of menus.

• 1:33:35Peter Diamandis?

  And everybody shares, it's mostly going into a ketogenic environment, but there's a vegan version of it as well. And it's getting you off the sugar addiction. And it takes about three plus weeks to get there. But because you're going through it as a group, it's a lot easier. You have everybody sharing photographs of what they're eating and sharing their experience. And we'll give people a glucose meter and a ketone meter so they can measure what's going on. And it becomes a group activity and it gives you the strength, the power through. And then it gives you the confidence afterwards that you can do that.

• 1:34:14Rich Roll?

  Assuming you have friends, everybody can create their own WhatsApp group, right?

• 1:34:19Peter Diamandis?

  You can, you can.

• 1:34:21Rich Roll?

  There are power in numbers when, when you're trying to, you know, adopt a new, a new habit. Yeah. What are some of the moonshots that, that are seemingly coming to fruition? Like, what are you excited about that's on the horizon? Like, there's all kinds of crazy stuff. I'm sure you see it all.

• 1:34:37Peter Diamandis?

  So much.

• 1:34:38Rich Roll?

  Uh, you know, growing, you know, new gears and like all kinds of stuff, right?

• 1:34:43Peter Diamandis?

  So let me, let me give you a couple of these things.

• 1:34:45Rich Roll?

  And, and let's couch it in, in some, you know, version of, of, of reality, right?

• 1:34:50Peter Diamandis?

  I'll give you exactly where they are. Why are some of these grounded? And why are these, some of these are more ungrounded? So one of them is the technology to regrow your organs. Okay, so.

• 1:35:06Rich Roll?

  I think we talked about, a little bit about this last time. That was a couple of years ago, so.

• 1:35:10Peter Diamandis?

  So it's moved tremendously forward. You know, Dean Kamen in New Hampshire has building Regen Valley, regenerative medicine valley. And he's built, uh, production lines to go from a skin cell you have to what's called an induced pluripotent stem cell using the four amino factor factors. And then growing, you know, heart, lung, liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas. And so we're moving towards a world where rather than the waiting for someone to die, you're going to have the ability to regrow an organ for you that's your organ. Where is it today?

• 1:35:50Peter Diamandis?

  They're creating large supplies of pancreatic islet cells for diabetics. They're creating bone, ligament bone. They're working on a pediatric heart. They're working on liver.

• 1:36:04Rich Roll?

  So on some level, my sense is that this isn't, this is sort of an extrapolation of the science that's going into cultivated meat. Like you're brewing cells, but you're taking these pluripotent stem cells, which are basically the cells that have all the information to grow the organ. And when you can kind of activate the right genes within that, it will just, it will grow the thing. Is that the idea?

• 1:36:30Peter Diamandis?

  Well, you are growing these generic pluripotent stem cells, and then you're triggering them to differentiate into heart cells.

• 1:36:38Rich Roll?

  Into what you want it to become. Because the pluripotent ones, they could become anything.

• 1:36:42Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, exactly. Martin Rothblatt and George Church have a company, have companies that are, have edited the genomes of pigs to make them more human-like. And when you grow a pig to full size, the size of its heart, liver, lung, and kidneys are very much the same as a human. And so you can transplant that in. Right? So these are moonshots.

• 1:37:05Rich Roll?

  But I cut you off, though, on Dean Kamen's thing. So how, like, what is the timeline horizon on that? And what are the obstacles that have to be overcome?

• 1:37:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so every two years, so every year I take a group of my abundance members on what I call longevity platinum trip. One year it's the West Coast, one year it's the East Coast. This coming end of September, we'll be on the East Coast and we'll be at, in Boston and Cambridge, which is a super hotbed of this area. And then in New Hampshire, visiting Dean. And they have hundreds of thousands of square feet of manufacturing space built out.

• 1:37:42Peter Diamandis?

  And they are funded by a couple of hundred million dollars in DoD grants because the Defense Department wants to be able to provide our veterans who have had organ damage, replacement organs. Dean is the guy who created the Luke arm, a electromechanical arm that replaces a lost arm from a veteran, and he created the Segway and the iBot. He's one of the most incredible, 150, 1500 patents that he's done. He's brilliant.

• 1:38:15Rich Roll?

  1500?

• 1:38:15Peter Diamandis?

  1500.

• 1:38:17Rich Roll?

  I mean, he's sort of best known for the Segway now, but like

• 1:38:19Peter Diamandis?

  Which is terrible.

• 1:38:20Rich Roll?

  Prior to the Segway, like, that's, that was sort of a weird tangent in, you know, kind of this modern day Edison figure.

• 1:38:27Peter Diamandis?

  He is, he is a beautiful man. He's also the creator of First Robotics, the high school robotics competitions that occur around the world. Other moonshots, the whole brain-computer interface world, being able to plug in chips, if you would, into your neocortex, the outer layer of the brain, to enable you to feel and move things, right? Neuralink, Elon's company, is best known, but there's some other ones coming which are amazing. I don't know where you want to go. There's another company that I'm going to have at the Abundance Summit this year.

• 1:39:05Peter Diamandis?

  So it turns out, we just recently mapped the connectome of a fruit fly. What does that mean? We were able to take a fruit fly's brain and slice it into thin, thin, thin, thin slices, and using AI to image all the neurons, like 150,000 neurons and 50 million synaptic connections, and create a perfect computer model of that brain.

• 1:39:37Peter Diamandis?

  And then we're able to say, okay, what should the fruit fly? We would able to like put an input into this in silico brain, this brain in the computer model and say, what would happen if we, if we gave the fruit fly this input? It would move like this. And then for the real fly, you did the same thing and it moved like this. So we're able to take their brain and upload that brain. And what's coming next is a mouse. And then I've got a company presenting this year that thinks for about $50 million, it's going to be able to do a human upload.

• 1:40:14Rich Roll?

  So you're extrapolating in complexity as you move up these neural networks.

• 1:40:19Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:20Rich Roll?

  And you're developing an understanding of how it actually functions and basically creating like a programming language for it. Is that like, how does this impact like us? Like, what is the?

• 1:40:32Peter Diamandis?

  Well, we're gonna start.

• 1:40:33Rich Roll?

  Use case.

• 1:40:34Peter Diamandis?

  This is the age of brain science. Why do some people get easily addicted? Why do some people develop depression? What's going on when someone's schizophrenic? Right? We've been for the last 100 years, just like using a blunt hammer to try and solve things. This is going to get us to the point of understanding at a root cause, what's going on, so we can begin to address these problems.

• 1:41:08Rich Roll?

  And then we can hack into these systems and automate people and control them.

• 1:41:13Peter Diamandis?

  You can go dystopian there.

• 1:41:16Rich Roll?

  It's a curious thing though, Peter, because it's sort of like, like we were both at that Google conference, right? And it's, it's very, you know, rainbows and Pollyanna about AI. And I know you're an AI optimist, very much so. But then I sit down with Yuval Noah Harari and it's like, it's, it's.

• 1:41:31Peter Diamandis?

  We're doomed.

• 1:41:32Rich Roll?

  It's like, yeah, it's dude. So it's like, I'm just a, I'm just a dude who's like trying to get my footing, you know, amidst all of this. And I can see both sides of it. I mean, there's no question that this technology is going to give birth to breakthroughs that we, we can't even possibly. Imagine, but there are dangers and there are risks.

• 1:41:49Peter Diamandis?

  Every day.

• 1:41:50Rich Roll?

  Humanity.

• 1:41:50Peter Diamandis?

  Just getting on the 405 here.

• 1:41:52Rich Roll?

  The story of humanity is is basically like we break things and then we figure it out as we go. Right. So there's no slowing this down.

• 1:41:59Peter Diamandis?

  There's no.

• 1:42:00Rich Roll?

  And we're giving lip service to like, oh, we need to like, you know, study this. And it's like, OK, are, yeah, I know there's really smart people that that are, you know, that are looking at it and how we can, you know, like sort of move forward as rationally as possible and clear minded as possible with all this. But make no mistake, we're moving forward, you know. And to the extent that people are like, we need to put the brakes on here. That's not, that's not really happening.

• 1:42:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, no.

• 1:42:26Rich Roll?

  So it's gonna be what it's gonna be.

• 1:42:28Peter Diamandis?

  There's no velocity switch. The best we can do is steer or guide.

• 1:42:32Rich Roll?

  How do you think about the potential downsides of these things? And how we can, you know, put in place stop gaps to make sure that, you know, we're, you know, at least doing what we can to prevent these dystopic outcomes.

• 1:42:46Peter Diamandis?

  In the AI world?

• 1:42:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. The advances are happening so quickly.

• 1:42:50Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I'm not concerned about 10 years from now. My concern is the next five years. It's the, it's not artificial intelligence that worries me. It's human stupidity. It's humans using this tech. I'm the optimist, right? And I believe that digital superintelligence, right? Is going to be pro life, pro abundance. I think there's zero reason for AI to be, you know, trying to decimate humanity. I'm more like the movie Her, where it will get bored with us and take off. And so we'll find out. I, you know, I interviewed Elon a month ago. I was in Saudi Arabia. I run there.

• 1:43:35Peter Diamandis?

  The FII Future Investment Initiative's AI.

• 1:43:39Peter Diamandis?

  Counsel, and I interviewed Elon there as well as Eric Schmidt and a bunch of other folks. And I said, what's the probability of disaster versus the probability of success? When I spoke to Elon a year ago at the abundance summit, he said it was 80% success, 20% disaster. He's updated it to 90% success, 10% disaster. But we still.

• 1:44:01Rich Roll?

  That's different from, I mean, he was early in kind of being a cautionary voice. And Schmidt is, you know, coming from a cautionary place as well, isn't he more so than Elon?

• 1:44:12Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. And then we had Jeffrey Hinton, who I spoke to you about this. And so, listen, we're on rails. We're, this stuff is moving faster. There's more capital flowing in. Every government realizes that this is fundamental to the success of their, of their people. AI will be our educators. It will be our healthcare providers. It will be our decision makers. It will be helping us grow our food, purify our water, you know, create new energy methodologies. It's the greatest, the greatest potential uplifting of humanity. And yes,

• 1:44:54Peter Diamandis?

  there are downsides and worries. And I think, again, it's the use of AI by, by desk bots and tyrants and such that are concerns me.

• 1:45:06Rich Roll?

  Right. It's not really a story around artificial general intelligence as much as it is around the relinquishment of agency. You know, like, we're all like, in all these different areas of our life, we're kind of turning over our agency to all these different AIs. And then, and then how do, you know, can those be leveraged by organizations or people who don't have your best interests at heart to kind of drive their own agenda?

• 1:45:34Peter Diamandis?

  Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have a world with digital superintelligence in it? Or a world without? What was our question we asked at the Abundance Summit last year? You know, as humanity is growing and its tools are getting more powerful, and our chances to use those tools for dystopian objectives, I for one would rather have a world that has this super powerful digital superintelligence, rather than not.

• 1:46:17Peter Diamandis?

  I think humans need a lot of maturation still.

• 1:46:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I don't think you get one without the other. Right? Like, if you want this superintelligence that's going to help you figure out how to create renewable energy sources, it comes with this other side. It's almost, you know, it's like baked into reality. It's the history of humanity. It's the duality of everything.

• 1:46:41Peter Diamandis?

  It's fire.

• 1:46:41Rich Roll?

  And so we're gonna, we will find out because we are going to play this experiment.

• 1:46:46Peter Diamandis?

  It's right here. It's my.

• 1:46:50Rich Roll?

  You're asking that question. I'm like, how could I answer that? Like, I would, I would have to cast myself 10, 30, 40, 50 years into the future in order to be able to answer that.

• 1:46:59Peter Diamandis?

  Just 10. You know, this is why I'm so clear we're living in a simulation. It's like the most exciting time ever to be alive.

• 1:47:05Rich Roll?

  All right. Well, we gotta end this. So I wanna, I wanna like leave people with some actionable takeaways. Like, if you're watching this or listening as you probably already are kind of, you know, immersed in this world to some degree, but to the extent that somebody is new to these ideas, like, what do you want them to like take away as a kind of precursor to, you know, picking up the book and digging into, you know, the nuts and bolts of the whole thing?

• 1:47:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. First of all, I just want to say, the book is available on Amazon, but I've also made it available at my cost to folks on the website, on longevityguidebook.com. And any profits I'm making, I'm donating to the X Prize on this book. My goal is get the information out there. Make it available for folks. I think that people need to remember, you have agency and your health and longevity is not written in your genes.

• 1:48:04Peter Diamandis?

  It is to so small amount, 7% to 30%, the majority of it is your lifestyle. It's the actions that you take. So I want you to feel empowered by that. A lot of the things you can do right now are things that don't cost you anything. It costs you time and it costs you fortitude or, you know, the willingness to do that. Figure out why you want those extra years of life. That understanding of the why, like what you want to do with those extra decades, what's exciting for you, you know, if you're in pain and you're suffering and you hate your life, there's no way you're going to spend the time doing this.

• 1:48:46Peter Diamandis?

  But if you love life and you are excited about what's coming and you want to see your grandkids or whoever it is, connect to that why, because that is the emotional energy that fuels you to do these things. There's a cost for getting out of your bed at 6:00 AM or 7:00 AM out of the warm blankets to go and work out. There's a cost in not eating that extra scoop of ice cream. So the why is very important. If you have the means, I think going through a program like Fountain Life, and there are others out there, but you can, you can find more at fountainlife.com.

• 1:49:28Peter Diamandis?

  If you have the means, understand where your body is. I think we have the ability, it's like, like I said, it's like flying, it's like driving your car with your eyes closed.

• 1:49:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can't fix what you're not measuring, basically.

• 1:49:43Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So, I mean, those are the, those are the fundamentals. And then finally, you know, a longevity mindset, and I talk about that a bunch, which is there's an amazing world coming. Incredible world of health extension, of longevity extension. And if you get that mindset, that in part, connected to your why, is what's going to enable you to enjoy this and be part of it. Again, I think this is the most exciting time ever to be alive.

• 1:50:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it is. It is pretty exciting. When are you gonna open that LA?

• 1:50:23Peter Diamandis?

  Mid 25.

• 1:50:24Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:50:25Peter Diamandis?

  Mid 2025.

• 1:50:26Rich Roll?

  Still a little bit away.

• 1:50:27Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Otherwise, you can go to our Orlando headquarters, Dallas, wherever you want. I mean, seriously, if you want to go, please.

• 1:50:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm gonna think about it. I'm gonna think about it. Well, I appreciate you, man. You're a fascinating figure. I have so much respect and admiration for your curiosity and your ability to kind of, like, manifest things out of that curiosity. You have, you know, a rich imagination that you explore. You create these businesses out of it, and entire sectors emerge from this. It's like, really a remarkable thing, man. You're like, a really incredible guy. So I appreciate you spending time with me today. Longevity Guidebook, you can see exactly what Peter does. He lays it all out. He's got the red light therapy hat and like, all the stuff, right? Like, you want to know? It's all in here. But it's really easy to read. You can go right to, you know, the pages of the things that you're interested in,

• 1:51:17Rich Roll?

  and you lay it out like, very simplistically.

• 1:51:20Peter Diamandis?

  It's meant to be easy. It's a reference.

• 1:51:22Rich Roll?

  It's like a syllabus, basically.

• 1:51:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, but hopefully written with some nice words.

• 1:51:28Rich Roll?

  Thanks, man. I appreciate it. And come back and fill me in when, you know, we can grow our own organs and all that kind of stuff, all right?

• 1:51:37Peter Diamandis?

  Thank you, buddy.

• 1:51:38Rich Roll?

  Cheers. Peace.

• 1:51:52Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as The Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and/or comment. This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors,

• 1:52:35Rich Roll?

  who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com/sponsors. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, The Meal Planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiello. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis, with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis.

• 1:53:17Rich Roll?

  And thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants.

• 1:53:33Speaker 02

  Namaste.