Laila Ali’s Champion Mindset Begins With Self-Belief

How do you find your path in the vast shadow cast by one of history's most accomplished and beloved humans? For Laila Ali, the daughter of late global icon and humanitarian Muhammad Ali (the 8th of his 9 children), it wasn't easy. It wasn't always pretty. But over time, she found her voice. Staked her claim in very the ring that propelled her father to god-like status. And transcended that shadow as a multi-faceted talent that honors her father and yet is hers alone. Although she was never an athlete growing up — and didn't take to the pugilistic arts until she was 18 — Laila would become the most successful female in the history of women’s boxing. A 4-time undefeated world champion, she racked up 24 wins, 21 knockouts and zero losses over the course of her storied career. Retirement was just the beginning. Today the mother of two is a fitness & wellness advocate, TV host, home chef, cookbook author, and founder of the Laila Ali Lifestyle Brand. A cultural icon in her own right, Laila currently hosts the Emmy Award Winning show Home Made Simple (which airs every Saturday on the Oprah Winfrey Network) and has appeared on everything from Celebrity Apprentice to Dancing With The Stars as well as Rachael Ray, Dr. Oz, Good Morning America and many other national media outlets. This is a conversation about the interior experience of growing up as a daughter of ‘The Greatest' — and the pressures and expectations that held. It's about growing up in a broken household. The troubled youth that followed. Getting arrested. Meeting her bottom in a juvenile detention home. And the journey that followed to recreate herself. It's about her often misunderstood career as a professional boxer. The entrepreneurism that propels her success. And the legacy she is dedicated to emulating. But more than anything, this is a conversation about mindset. The cultivation of self-belief required to become a champion. Letting go of other's expectations. Developing the courage to fail. And the tools required to make your unique impact on the world. You can watch it all go down on YouTube. I had a ton of fun with Laila. I sincerely hope you enjoy the exchange! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  I always was a fighter, like I said. For some reason, I always wanted to fight and prove that I was strong. This confidence that I have, that I wish I could put it in a bottle, is something I was born with. But I wish that for everyone that they had enough self-love, because I think that's what it really comes down to, is confidence starts with self-love. And you have to love yourself enough to know that you're not gonna be perfect, you're gonna make mistakes, and that's okay. Like I was just saying a few minutes ago, my father, being as amazing as he is, he wasn't nowhere near perfect. So as a kid, I watched that. I saw his mistakes. I know all the things about him that are like, what? Crazy, you know? But he still is this amazing human being. So I'm like, if he's not perfect, nobody is. You know what I mean?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  So first, you just have to know that, because most people are afraid to go after the things they really want to do, to say the things they really feel, to really find their purpose, because they're afraid of screwing up. You know, they're afraid of what people are gonna say. And it's like, when you don't have that feeling, the possibilities are limitless.

• 2:05Rich Roll?

  That's Laila Ali, this week, on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:20Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Greetings, human dwellers of Planet Earth. My name is Rich Roll. I'm your host. This is my podcast. Welcome. My guest today is the great Laila Ali. She is the daughter of late beloved global icon and humanitarian Muhammad Ali. She is the eighth of his nine children. And Laila is quite the multifaceted talent. She's the most successful female in the history of women's boxing, a four-time undefeated world champion, racking up 24 wins, 21 knockouts, and zero losses over the course of her storied career. Now retired,

• 3:01Rich Roll?

  Laila is a fitness and wellness advocate. She's a TV host, home chef, cookbook author, founder of the Laila Ali Lifestyle brand, and a mother of two. She's appeared on everything from Celebrity Apprentice to Dancing with the Stars, as well as Rachael Ray, Dr. Oz, and many other national media outlets. And currently, she hosts the Emmy Award-winning show Homemade Simple, which airs every Saturday on the Oprah Winfrey Network. More on Laila in a sec, but first.

• 3:37Rich Roll?

  Okay, Laila, Laila Ali. So, she was a delight. We talked about a lot of things, what it was like growing up as a daughter of the greatest. We discussed her troubled youth, coming up in essentially a broken home, which most, I'm sure, would be surprised to hear, getting arrested, going to juvie, and how she began to put the pieces back together her way by opening up a nail salon on her own before she even began boxing, and then how she became this boxing phenom after not having been an athlete at all and not even starting the sport until she was 18. Plus, of course, some unique insight

• 4:16Rich Roll?

  into the man himself, Muhammad Ali, and a bunch of really great takeaways that I think you're really going to relish and enjoy. Laila and I had a lot of fun with this, so without further ado, this is me and Laila Ali.

• 4:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you know, podcasting is super fun, but you know, it's a job too.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I knew going in, I wasn't one of those people that's like, oh, I'm just gonna do it. Like I did my research, I knew, but I thought, I'm the type of person, what I feel I need to do, I will do it. But then I was just kinda like, for me with the setup that I had, it wasn't really giving me the return in terms of the audience and all the things. And it was gonna take even more work to build it. And I was like, mm, I think I'm gonna put my energy.

• 4:58Rich Roll?

  Well, you're doing like a million things.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Right. So I was just like, mm, I can't.

• 5:01Rich Roll?

  I can't even keep track of all the things you're doing. Like you're on TV. I mean, what's like top of mind right now? Like, I mean, you got the TV show, right, on OWN?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I host a show on OWN. I've been hosting since I stopped boxing, you know? I went on Dancing with the Stars.

• 5:17Rich Roll?

  That was a while ago, though.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  That was a while ago, before I even had kids. Yeah, I retired in 2007. And then I did that right afterwards. And that was a strategic move, you know, in terms of just opening myself to another audience, right?

• 5:29Rich Roll?

  How was that?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  It was crazy.

• 5:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a lot of work, right? Like, the people that do well train really hard. And you almost, I mean, you were like third or something like that, right? You went all the way down to the end.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, everybody trains hard. You have to in order to just get out there and perform. But I think that, you know, me being an athlete, it wasn't as hard physically as it was for everyone else. For a lot of people, it's physically hard. For me, it was more mental because working with a partner, when you're used to just going out there, I'm used to going in the ring like, I'm gonna win this fight. Period.

• 6:00Rich Roll?

  It's just me.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I had to rely on my partner, dance with the partner. Then sometimes we weren't always getting along, but you don't wanna show that on camera. So it was just like, ah, you know, but I wanna get to the end. So, you know, I did. So it was, it was worth it. It was fun.

• 6:13Rich Roll?

  How did the boxing experience and training inform how you approached dance?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I approached pretty much everything the same way, I would say. And it's just like, I go, I first have to assess the situation, you know, what's it gonna take of me? Because I'm one of those people that feels like I can pretty much do anything that I want to do. So first I had to say, okay, do I really wanna do this? You know, I didn't at first. So I was just like, uh, I don't wanna do this, no. And then I thought about. Actually, this could be a really good platform. So I had to get my strategic mind. And then when I realized, oh, I need to do this, then I was like, okay, I want to do this. And I assessed how much work I thought it was gonna take and I just kinda put it in, you know? And it's just like, I like to, like for fighting, for example, I know there's an end goal and I know I have, whether it's an eight week or a 10 week training camp. For these eight to 10 weeks, I'm gonna go hard as hell, you know?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  And then there's an end. So with dancing, I kinda looked at it that way. Okay, how long do I need to do this? You know, this is what's gonna come at the end. And then, you know, if it's open-ended, it's like, oh, for me, yeah.

• 7:15Rich Roll?

  But I think, coming from boxing, it would seem to me, there's a lot of, I mean, they're very different, but there's still some similarities. Like, it's footwork, it's repetitive motions, it's kind of, you know, there's a sort of, there's a dance to boxing as well, right? Like, I feel like boxing is probably well-suited for making that kinda switch. No?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  I mean, when you have to really narrow it down to the pros and the cons and what you're bringing into it, you know, because everyone's, you know, that comes from whether you're an actor or singer or performer. Like, I can look at the performers and be like, that's not fair, they're performers. Like, this is nothing for them. Whereas as a boxer, then someone who was an actress would say, oh, no, but you have the footwork, but it's totally different. Like, it's so different. Yeah, like, I've seen other boxers go on there and they didn't necessarily do as well. You know what I mean? So it takes so much more than that.

• 8:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Why do you think you got to all the way near the end then, versus the other boxers?

• 8:08Speaker 01

  No, I'm playing.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  I mean, I always get to the end. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. But I think it was a multitude of things. I think for one, the audience has to like you. The judges, you know, because the audience votes, the judges vote, and you have to do well. So I think that for me, I brought a different energy than most because, for one, I'm not the average size. I'm a big girl. I'm strong physically, I have a lot of muscle, you know, I'm moving and I'm out. But I was out there doing my thing. Whereas in the dance world, You know, they're very strict, not for Dance with the Stars, but in the real dance world.

• 8:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  It's like, you have to be a certain size, you have to be petite, you have to be shorter than the man, you know, all these different things. And I didn't really fit any of that, but I kind of made it my own and came out there and just did my thing. So I think that it's really just the feeling that people get when they see you and then they want to get behind you. And it's like, you know, that's that. I mean, that's my take on it.

• 9:02Rich Roll?

  I mean, there's like 40 million people that watch that show, right? I mean, so that had to be kind of a whirlwind crazy thing. I mean, in terms of like a strategic trajectory of saying, okay, I'm leaving boxing and now I want to set myself up for something else. Like, I mean, you certainly, you know, you succeeded in introducing yourself to America in a, in a different way. Did it work? I assume it worked.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:24Rich Roll?

  Fly buzzing around. Sorry about that.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  I'm gonna knock him out. No, I'm playing. No, it was fun because when I went into boxing, you know, I felt like I had to prove myself. I had to prove that I was tough. I had to prove that I just want to be a fighter. I had to really find my own lane. And I had spent so much time being serious and being, you know, hardcore all the time. Every time you saw me, I was talking about knocking somebody out. Now I'm kind of intimidating, unapproachable, kind of like, ooh, you know? That's cool, but stay away. Yeah. So for me, but that's not who I am. That was who I am in the ring. So I, you know, I was so young too. So now I kind of felt like, you know what? This is gonna be fun. I'm gonna show people a different side of myself. And I was able to introduce people who didn't even know me or know anything about me.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  They just knew, okay, Muhammad Ali's daughter, she was a boxer, to see me for the first time. So it was just fun. It was a fun transition for me, so.

• 10:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So now you're doing the TV show, which is kind of like, it's like a home makeover kind of thing. You help people, you know, figure their shit out.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, right, right. Well, Homemade Simple has been, it's going into its ninth season and there's been different hosts and I'm the host now. And when I became the host, it went from a half hour show to an hour show. And we really get more into the stories of the individuals because these are people who are amazing. I mean, like you'd have a mom who is single, but she's taken on her sister's kids because her sister passed away, you know, or something like that. And she just is like, I need a place where I can go to relax. So she'll want her master bedroom made over. So I'll come in with a team and, you know, we'll kind of take that. That on and do it, but then there's DIY projects and I get in the kitchen and I cook, you know, recipes out of my cookbook, Food for Life. So that's fun for me. So I've hosted

• 11:05Speaker 01

  a lot of shows, but I really like this show in particular because I get to work with people. And I get to do the things that I love, you know, cooking and decorating. I'm not the decorator. We have a designer, but I just, I've always loved it.

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it sounds like fun.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is fun.

• 11:19Rich Roll?

  So I just, just a couple of weeks ago, I went to the premiere of What's My Name?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:29Rich Roll?

  Were you there?

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I was.

• 11:30Rich Roll?

  I figured you probably were.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, in LA downtown.

• 11:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm friends with Billy Gerber, one of the producers on the movie, and he was gracious enough to give me an invite. And there were so many things about your father that I didn't know that I learned. I mean, it's, it's, there's a lot. Look, there's so much film on your dad and a lot of documentaries and movies have been made, but this really took it back way back. And all this footage of him when he's, and you just realize like, man, he was so young when all of this started.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Can you imagine being that young?

• 12:03Rich Roll?

  I can imagine. His first boxing match, he's like 16, it's on TV, right? And he's almost fully formed at that point. Like you figure, I think there's this conventional wisdom that, that all the trash talk kind of started once he got big, but it kind of starts way earlier than that.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that you just caught it on camera more when he got big, but it was always there, you know?

• 12:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:26Rich Roll?

  And I was, I was struck by, you know, just the beauty and the elegance with which he lived his life. And, you know, I want to get into it a little bit more, but kind of just stepping off of that, you know, as, as his daughter, you know, you mentioned earlier, like, everybody knows you as his daughter, right? And that's like, that's like, one of the biggest shadows, you know, of all time to have to kind of live in. And I would imagine that there's great things about that. And there's also like, a lot of challenges that you probably wish, you know, you could just whisk away.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  You know, it's crazy because that is, I'm definitely always going to be Muhammad Ali's daughter, but I don't feel uncomfortable with it. You know, it's like, I don't really feel like I'm in his shadow, even though I, to other people, I probably, I probably am.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  No, let me say that again. To other people, I am. Yeah. Um, because I've always kind of woken up thinking like, hmm, what's Laila gonna do today? You know, it's not like, hmm, I'm Muhammad Ali's daughter. What was that gonna do for me today? You know what I'm saying? So me and my father are so alike, but so different. And we've always been like, people just assume, yes, people just assume that I'm daddy's girl and all that. And I'm so not, I'm the last. You know, there's nine of us. I know. And yeah. You're like, uh, you're the eighth and nine, right? Yeah. So we have a brother who was adopted when, you know, um, I forget how old I was when he was adopted. But I'm the youngest of my dad's natural children and I'm the youngest girl. And then I'm like the feistiest, most challenging one for him.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  So what did you guys butt heads over? Oh, my God. I always, you know, I do a lot of public speaking and I, and I always talk about the three ti- the three big meetings that we had. Um, so I remember, okay, first of all, I'm not Muslim. That was big. You saw how much, if you watched the movie, if you didn't know before, you know, my whole, my dad's whole life is like based around his religion. Um, and for me to be an eight-year-old at the time, and I'm estimating seven or eight, and I told my dad, I don't want to be Muslim. I mean, he's just like, what? Like, you know, you're not old enough to know what you want. And I was like, I'm old enough to know it's not in my heart. It's not in my heart. So what can he say? Yeah. So then it was just kind of, no, he didn't like that at all. So then everything from then on out was, this happened because you're not Muslim, or you're doing that because you're not Muslim.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  And everything's like, because I'm not Muslim. And I'm like, oh, really? So as I got older and then we, you know, and I'd say, for example, I had on fitted jeans like I have on now. It's like, he'd be staring at you, oh, you got those jeans on, you know, men are gonna look at your butt and they're just gonna want to have sex with you. And then you go on this whole tangent. And I'm like, I don't want to hear you talking to me that way, you know? So then we kind of get into it all the time. Like, I'm not gonna come visit you when you come in town. If you're gonna disrespect me, you know, we'd be back and forth. So it was like that. Then, um, when I was 18, I moved out the house and moved in with a boyfriend. Uh huh. And it was like. I'm sure that went over well. Oh, yeah. But it was like, but it wasn't so much the. You know, I'm worried about you and you're too young to be with a guy. It was just, no, you're living in sin. And it was, it was a religious thing again. And I was like, I'm not Muslim. So then that became an issue.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And I was like, wait a minute, I pay my own bills. Because I, I've always, I had a business when I was, you know, 18, I had a nail salon. I moved out, I was supporting myself. So then I was kind of like, you're not gonna tell me what to do. And then, of course, in the boxing, that was another conversation.

• 15:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  He tried to talk me out of that.

• 15:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 15:52Rich Roll?

  But you're, I mean, that makes you your father's daughter. Like, that, that spirit, that feistiness, that's fine.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  He has so much respect.

• 15:59Rich Roll?

  That's him too, right?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  He has so much respect.

• 16:01Rich Roll?

  Was he able to recognize that?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. At a certain point, that's what I'm saying. I remember when he told me not to box. You know, first he tried to talk me out of it indirectly. And when he, when he, because I kind of started in secrecy. Because I was like, had to figure out for myself, is this what I really want to do? I understood everything that was going to come with it. But I was like, let me get in the gym, see if I even have the talent. Because I don't want to embarrass myself, I don't want to embarrass my family, and I just want to be good. So I trained for like, six months without anyone knowing.

• 16:29Rich Roll?

  Stealth mode.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was kind of like, I'm just, I was like, I'm just gonna go lose some weight, work out. But I knew what my goal was. So when it got around to him and he asked me about it, and said, are you in the gym? And I'm like, yeah, I am. And he was just like, well, what are you gonna do? You know, there's gonna be so much attention on you, so much pressure on you. And I'm like, I'm, I'm ready to deal with that, I've thought that through. Well, what if you get knocked down in the ring and the lights are on? He builds this whole scene and you're on the canvas and everybody's watching. I was like, well, you've been knocked down, I'm gonna do what you did.

• 16:53Rich Roll?

  Or you could just say, well, you know, what, what would you have said if somebody said that to you? Back in the day?

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Well, like, I didn't even, you know, at the, at the end of the day, I wasn't even trying to talk him out of trying to talk me out of it. I was just going with his flow, I knew where he was going with it. And I was like, just answer him, I said, I'm gonna do what you did. You got up, right? And then if he got so frustrated, he finally was just like, it's not for you, it's not for women, it's too hard, it's not a woman's sport. And I just said, you know what, dad? I, because I expected him to say something like that. And I just said, you know what, I understand how you feel, but this is what I'm gonna do. And I've already made my mind up. So he just had to roll with it.

• 17:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he came around.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah. And he, and he apologized. I remember I won, uh, my second title. And he came to my dressing room after the fight and he had tear, he used to cry all the time, tears of joy usually, but he um, he had tears in his eyes and I'm like, oh God, what now? And he says, you know, I want to apologize to you. I was wrong and I'm sorry. Women can fight, you can fight. And then of course, he starts trying to show me how to jab and trying to, I was like, now you want to teach me something? Like I already got world titles. Like what are you talking about? So.

• 17:49Rich Roll?

  Well, let's, let's step it back a little bit. I mean, did you, first of all, were you an athlete like in high school?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 17:55Rich Roll?

  You didn't do anything?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 17:56Rich Roll?

  Not even like basketball, volleyball, nothing?

• 17:59Speaker 01

  I was too busy being bad at school. I was always.

• 18:02Rich Roll?

  What were you into?

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Oh my God, ditching. Um, you know, I, I had a very dysfunctional childhood.

• 18:08Rich Roll?

  You were born in Miami, but did you, did you grow up, did you go to high school around here?

• 18:11Speaker 01

  I grew up, I saw, I was born in Miami, literally just was there probably not even 30 days. My dad was training for a fight and then we flew back here. So I, I grew up in LA all of my life. So, um.

• 18:21Rich Roll?

  Where'd you go to high school?

• 18:22Speaker 01

  I went to multiple, multiple high schools because like I said, I was bad. I went to Hamilton, I went to uni, I went to Venice, I went to Culver City. Like I used to get, yeah, I got kicked out a couple of times. Yeah. For fighting. So like I always tell people, no, I was always a fighter. So I had a dysfunctional family, being that my mom and dad got divorced. My stepdad was an asshole. And I remember moving from the Hancock Park area, which is adjacent to Beverly Hills where we lived. And then my mom getting remarried, said we're moving to Malibu. And that was like crushed me, like to go to a whole new place down the coast. I'm talking about 15 minutes past Pepperdine, like.

• 18:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, North Malibu.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, like far.

• 18:58Rich Roll?

  There's nothing going on up there.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Nothing there, no friends, nobody. Um, so that like broke my heart. And then the whole dysfunction started happening. So I was an angry kid.

• 19:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Um, and just trying to find myself and trying to always get back to LA. So I was spending out at friends' house a lot and all that. And then I always had this tough exterior about me. Um, and I was like a rebel without a cause. And I just got myself in trouble, hanging around the wrong crowd, ditching school. Um, and then one day I was with this young lady who shoplifted and then was like, oh, let's go, I don't pay for anything. And I'm like, oh, okay. I have money in my pocket. So I shoplifted with her, got caught. Got in the system. That's how I ended up in the system and now I'm on probation.

• 19:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  And then I um got in trouble again and then I got put in juvenile hall.

• 19:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  So I went, that was like the end of my, my world, like, cause I always had this attitude like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go to court today and I'll be home later. And then the judge actually locked me up and I was in juvenile hall for three months.

• 19:55Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a long time.

• 19:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  And then after juvenile hall, I came out and had to go to group home because they were like, you know, something's not right at your house. And it wasn't. My mom just really didn't know what was going on with me. She was like caught up in her marriage. And I ended up in a group home in the program that I had to graduate, which most people don't graduate. They say you're not, you're gonna be here for at least a year. And I was like, I cannot be here for a year. So then I got, I, I graduated in six months and um then I got back on track. Cause I'd already went to school, learned how to do nails. Um and then I, I got my license, I moved out the house and kinda never looked back on all that.

• 20:30Rich Roll?

  Right. So juvie was like, what were you, like seventeen or something, sixteen or something like that?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Fifteen, fifteen, yeah. Fifteen, yeah, I was fifteen and it was like the best thing that ever happened to me.

• 20:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  But that was like to have your freedom taken, you know.

• 20:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  To have your freedom taken away. Not for that long. Yeah, yeah. We're not talking about overnight. That's what I'm saying. Most of the time when I say that, people are like, oh, you got in trouble, your parents came and got you. It was like, no. And, and then when I got arrested, I used the name Anderson, which was my mom's name at the time, because I didn't wanna say Ali and then.

• 20:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I was gonna ask about that.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  So they, no one really knew.

• 20:59Rich Roll?

  No one knew.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Until.

• 21:00Rich Roll?

  No, and that would have, that would have just exaggerated.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Well, it started to get around because you, you see kids come through that are like, wait a minute, I know her from my school. You know, and then it kinda got around, but I was always, you know, my, my file was always under the name Anderson. And I never got sentenced a time. That's the crazy thing. The judge said, you know, you're gonna get two weeks and I wanna see you back here. And I was like, oh my God, two weeks seemed like two years. And when I came back, he stayed, I stayed behind the courtroom all day. He didn't see me. Sent me back again for another two weeks. He did that to me a few times that added up to three months because the judge was like, you're Muhammad Ali's daughter. Like, what the heck is going on with you girls? He just wanted to teach me a lesson, you know, and get me on track. So.

• 21:38Rich Roll?

  And where was dad throughout this whole thing?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  You know what? He wasn't there. I'll tell you that. He, um, he knew what was going on, but I didn't want him to come visit me. I didn't want, you know, anyone to see my father there. So he kind of, everyone was just kind of like, what's going on with Laila? Like, so you would think that I was going to be the one that was going to amount to nothing, you know? But obviously that didn't happen.

• 21:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So, all right. So you got kind of scared straight. I mean, was there, was drugs and alcohol part of that at all? Or just behavior stuff?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  No, I never did. I never drank. I never did drink. I drank. I smoked a little weed, you know, but never, never did any of the drugs. I always had a really good head on my shoulders. I was always strong, confident in myself. It's just the anger that I had.

• 22:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Um, is what really got me into trouble because I had this, like I said, just I want to do my own thing and I want to, I didn't want to be just, I'm just Muhammad Ali's daughter. So I, all of our friends that were like our wealthy friends, kids and all that, I didn't really want to hang out around them, but I went totally to the other side of the hood. Like, you know, and then of course I didn't have the street smarts and things. And that's how I ended up getting myself in trouble.

• 22:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but sometimes that, that flirtation with the darkness is, is what you need to like, you know, get the needle sorted out and get straight.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  I wouldn't change anything from, you know, and I talk about it all the time. I wrote a book about it. My first book was Reach, Finding Strength, Spirit, and Personal Power. Because, you know, when people started, you know, speculating, why am I a fighter? It was funny to me because I'm like, these motherfuckers just don't know.

• 23:02Rich Roll?

  Fighting the whole time.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been fighting. I was fighting my stepdad when I was a kid. I mean, you know, and that's why all of that started because I didn't accept him. I didn't accept the way he was treating my mom. I watched my mom be weak. I tried to stand up for her. Then I got mad at her. Like, you're going to let this person do this to you and to us. And I had all this anger. I felt abandoned. You know, my dad lived in a different state. He didn't really know what was going on. And so it's like, you understand. That, you know, your father is the father to the world and he's helping all these people, but you still have to be a sacrifice.

• 23:33Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  So it's like that was something that I learned at an early age and I'm not upset. I understand that's just the way the chips fell.

• 23:39Rich Roll?

  You didn't sign up for that.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:41Rich Roll?

  His energy is going out to everybody and there's not so much left over for you.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I was actually okay. Like I wasn't that close to my dad. Um, so I wasn't like, oh, where's daddy? You know, it's just that this is what it was, you know, and it's fine. So I understand that he had a calling to do certain things, but that's just a part of my story and why things kind of.

• 24:00Rich Roll?

  How's your mom doing now?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  She's good. She's good. She's, um.

• 24:03Rich Roll?

  She with that guy still?

• 24:03Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. He's out of there. I was planning his death. I was like, we're gonna, we're gonna fix those brakes and then the car's just gonna roll down on the PCA. So that never, that never ended up happening because he got out of there. But, um, yeah, she's good. She, um, she's, you know, I'm watching her journey, you know? She's still, she's still, um, we're just so different as women, you know? So she's still on her, her journey, figuring things out for herself. But she's a psychologist. She went to school. You know, she's, um.

• 24:29Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's got her clients, so she's great.

• 24:38Rich Roll?

  So what was the process of working through the anger? I mean, did, I, I assume boxing played some role in helping you get to the other side of that. You don't seem like an angry person.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  I'm not.

• 24:48Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  I'm not. You know, and it's funny because I never thought about the process of working through the anger, but, um, just off of the top of my head, definitely boxing had something to do with it because, um, it was a big outlet for me because I always was a fighter. Like I said, for some reason, I always wanted to fight.

• 25:04Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Um, and prove that I was strong, you know? Like I had, I took pride in that. I remember being a kid and mom, I can help you move that, you know, picking, trying to pick up cabinets and just show how strong I was. I don't know what that was.

• 25:16Rich Roll?

  It's gotta be some weird genetic thing.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  It's weird. It's very weird because I'm telling you, my husband now is like, why are you always talking about fighting?

• 25:24Rich Roll?

  Have you ever asked your, did you ever ask your dad, like, why, why did he decide to fight at the very beginning? Like, did, did, did you feel like he shares that same, he shared that same impulse?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  No, he's so different than me in that my dad is, would never do, have a street fight. Like, my dad would never wanna, you know, go there. Like, he, whenever you saw him, like, taunting his opponents, and he was just playing, it was all for show. You know what I mean? But like, I'm a little different, where I really have, like, more of a evil, mean streak when it needs to come out. So, he started fighting because somebody stole his bike, he was mad about it, and a trainer was like, he's like, "I'm gonna get those guys." Like, "Well, do you know how to fight? Well, come in here, young man." And I was like, "Oh." And then he kind of fell into it that way. Whereas, I more so was angry and mad, and then I saw women's boxing on television for the first time, and was like, "Oh, my God. I didn't even know women boxed. I didn't know that it was a possibility."

• 26:15Rich Roll?

  How did you not know that?

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Nobody knew. It was because this female, Christy Martin, was on Mike Tyson's undercard back then, and it was the first time a lot of millions of people saw women's boxing, including myself.

• 26:27Rich Roll?

  Was it the first televised women's boxing match?

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Yes, it was the first, yes, it was the first. I, I don't want to say 100% I'm sure on that, but I know it was the first big televised that anyone would have been watching. But, um, so she was the, she was the co-main event. So, people were watching, I was watching, and I was like, "I want to do that." And then it took me about a year of contemplation to actually start.

• 26:47Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Yeah, as the story goes, you were like, with friends, watching this, and you had, like, it's this lightbulb moment, right? And you're like, "I'm gonna do that."

• 26:55Speaker 01

  I remember like it was yesterday. I was like...

• 26:57Rich Roll?

  And you're, you're like 18, right?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  At the time, I was probably 17, yeah, 17-ish going on. No, no, I was, I was 18, I'm sorry, I was 18, yeah.

• 27:06Rich Roll?

  Hadn't, hadn't played any sports or anything like that?

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Never played sports, was not in shape. Um, I probably was about 30 pounds heavier than I needed to be, because, you know, it's all about weight class and being at your best. Um, didn't know what it would take. So that night I was like, I want to do that. I thought I thought it through and everything. Then I went home and the fear and the doubt and the, what are you thinking? And because remember I'd already been through the whole juvenile hall stint.

• 27:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Got myself back on track. I had a nail salon, had a business. I was in school. I was living on my own. I was like, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur and I'm gonna start all these businesses. And you know, it was just at the beginning. So for me to to and then I'm a planner and I do what I say I'm gonna do. So I had said, this is what I was gonna do. So how am I gonna change that? What's everyone gonna think? That's crazy. I don't want to be famous. I don't want to be a public person. I never did. So that was just an inner conflict in itself.

• 27:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, it's impossible for you to step into that and not just attract the white hot spotlight.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:59Rich Roll?

  Of of everything.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  And that was gonna be a requirement in order to be successful.

• 28:03Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  So remember, I always think about what do I need to do in order to make this be successful? I didn't want to just box, um, just to be doing for fun. Otherwise I would have done it for a hobby. If I'm gonna dedicate my life to this, I need to be successful at it, which means I need to be a winner. I need to be undefeated. I need to make money at it. I need to think about, because that's just the smart way to approach anything.

• 28:24Rich Roll?

  But the traditional trajectory would be, all right, you're gonna do a few fights. You're gonna figure out like you're gonna make mistake, like you can in most people, you know, can anonymously like work their way up.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 28:35Rich Roll?

  To get to a certain point, but from day one, everybody's gonna be paying attention to you and the criticism and everything that goes with that.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Well, my pro debut, put it like this, was off television because you wanna, you know, you wanna def- I didn't, I definitely didn't want to fight on TV. Um, and there was 80 different media outlets there, just ready to report.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  This is my first time ever stepping into a ring ever.

• 28:58Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  And you know, you go into it, your trainer, your manager, your handlers, they're all like, okay, she says she's gonna do this. She says she's gonna knock this girl out. But what's she gonna do when those lights come on and that crowds there and her dad's in the audience? With all this pressure, you never know until you actually go out there and do it. So then I knocked the girl out in 54 seconds. And I was like, bam, we're off to a good start here.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  Right. And then it's just off to the races with the whole thing.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:19Rich Roll?

  Um, also, I think, you know, almost everybody would assume that, okay, you're gonna get into boxing. So first phone call, dad, who's the trainer? Like it compile this team of people, the best people in the world to do this. But you you did this completely without your dad's knowledge, right? Like you're trying to find these people on your own.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I did. And my father wasn't in the boxing business, so he wouldn't have been the best person to ask anyway. But don't, if he didn't know, he would have known someone who

• 29:45Rich Roll?

  Right, of course.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  And then the thing is, is that with boxing, you have a lot of people with anything. You have a lot of people who are supposedly the people who know and have the right answer, but they don't always, and they have agendas. So for me-

• 29:57Rich Roll?

  Lot of that.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's all that. So for me, it was like, I wasn't gonna trust them anyway. It's like, I'd rather make my own mistakes because, you know, I already know, I already know the game. So for me, luckily, I found my ex-husband, who was a former fighter, and we started dating, and he knew so much more than me. He had been a world champion. And I remember I was training with a guy who was, he was like, first, first things first, we can't train with this guy. He's just not at the level of, you know, the trainer you need to be with, skill-wise and experience-wise. So that was the first change. And then eventually, I moved to Las Vegas. I started training with Roger Mayweather, who's Floyd Mayweather's uncle, and Floyd Senior, and then Buddy McGirt. These are all top trainers. So those

• 30:38Speaker 01

  throughout my career. And then, you know, so I learned and upped my level as I needed to, you know, but the guy, Doug Huntley, who I had in LA, was perfect for the beginning in terms of just, not the one I originally had first, but the second one. He, you know, as far as getting my base. And then it was time to kind of step it up a notch, and that's when I moved.

• 30:56Rich Roll?

  So, from seventeen or eighteen, when you first see this fight on TV, to that first fight where you knocked this person out, how much time went by?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Two years.

• 31:07Rich Roll?

  Two years.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I saw, so I saw, saw her on TV. It took me about a year to start training. And then I trained for a whole year before I went pro. And I'm talking about after school, after work, eight o'clock at night, every night, and I looked forward to it. And I was, I was, it was so grueling. So, you know, my whole body changed. I had to change the way that I ate. You know, just, I was like, what is it gonna take to be a world champion? Because I wanted to be a world champion, and my goal was to be undefeated. So-

• 31:35Rich Roll?

  And how many, how many, how many female professional boxers were there at that time?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Uh, I would say about fifteen hundred.

• 31:41Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh. That's more than I would have thought.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot. And there's a lot more now, because women's boxing is now in the Olympics.

• 31:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  It wasn't when I was fighting. But my weight class, which was a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, is big for a woman. Um, there wasn't a lot of females. So I, my whole career, I struggled with finding fights that were gonna be, um, you know, give me a challenge, you know? Um, and that's one of the reasons I retired. I just kinda, there was like the same three girls that I wanted to fight that wouldn't fight me, but then they said I wouldn't fight them.

• 32:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's a whole lot of back and forth.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I swear. It, I've lost so much sleep over that. And I was just like, I'm tired of this, you know? So what can I do? I just, I just retired. There's so many other things I wanted to do that I knew I could do well. Boxing was like, I got that out of my system. So it was like, time to, time to move on.

• 32:29Rich Roll?

  Well, 24 and 0. You, you pretty much took every belt, right? Like every championship or whatever, retire on top. I mean, it's pretty good.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, I wasn't really, really done.

• 32:39Rich Roll?

  What else was there to do?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  I mean, you, you know, you, you, I don't like ever having people out there lingering that to be, oh, she never fought this girl, because I know eventually there's gonna be documentaries made on me.

• 32:50Rich Roll?

  So there was, so you were saying, I'll fight anyone. They're saying, she won't fight me, but it kind of boiled down to negotiations and people backing out over money and stuff like that.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. There's, the thing is, is that to fight me was, I'm the big name, right? So everyone was like, that's gonna be my payday. So then what people didn't realize, I wasn't even making that much money. You know, I was making a whole lot more than them, but in my mind, in my world, it wasn't a whole lot of money. I was making more money outside of boxing in terms of endorsements and things. But when they finally got their opportunity and they're like, $100,000, I thought I was gonna get a million dollars. Then it's just like, wait a minute, I don't wanna risk to get this ass whooping for that.

• 33:29Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  You see what I mean? So then it was like, one girl in particular, she'd rather go down in history as the one, the one I was afraid to fight, opposed to actually get in there because she knew.

• 33:39Rich Roll?

  She'd dine out on that story for the rest of her life.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  The top dog was like, we, me and her, like, the woman wouldn't even look me in the eye. So it was just like, she had this fear of me, but then she's got this persona because when, when someone looks mean and big and bad and, oh, the pretty girl must be the one who's afraid, you know? And so she's just kinda rode that story into the sunset.

• 33:58Rich Roll?

  When you were fighting, do you, do you, if you wash yourself on tape, are there similarities in style with your dad? Or did you have a totally different?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Oh, there's definitely similarities. Similarity is just naturally because of our build. So just the way kind of my weight and muscles distributed were built a lot alike. Um, so when you're tall and you have long arms, you're gonna use your jab, you're gonna fight a certain way. You're gonna move around the ring and then the natural ability to be able to move and my speed. All was God given and like from my father. So that was what I would say we have most in common is the confidence for one. It's just like through the roof. Like I literally felt like I'm gonna win this fight with every cell in my body for sure. There was no doubt about it. It was just, and it wasn't something I said, it's something I truly believed. So it was like, I knew that it's just a matter of can I go in here and do the things that I've been working on?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  You know, as an athlete, the things that you know that you need to perfect. I want to go in there and do, and I don't know what round is gonna happen, but I know that I'm gonna win this fight. So that I think is one thing. And even, even learning more about my dad and watching videos, he wasn't even as confident as I was. But

• 35:07Rich Roll?

  That's interesting.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  It's because you have to take into consideration, he's fighting bigger, stronger men. I didn't have that situation. You see what I'm saying?

• 35:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the talent pool is a little different.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So I can't just say it's hard, it's hard to say, but I never felt like, like I've heard him say, like I was scared, like, and I never felt that. Um, so, but that, there was a difference there.

• 35:27Rich Roll?

  And once, once the ball was rolling and you're, you're winning all these fights, does dad come in and say, here, try this? Do the, like, is he peppering you with like insights or, or he just let you do your thing?

• 35:37Speaker 01

  No, he didn't do that at all. The only thing, the only thing he did was, uh, cause his thing was a jab, jab, and that's what most fighters do. They're trying to show you what they did best. So it was just like, you know, just you gotta have your jab fast. He was just saying in general, not that it wasn't fast, but he was just like, you need to hit the bag and act like there's a fly on the bag. And you're trying to hit it before it flies away. And I was like, okay, that's a good one. You know what I mean? So just that, if that's how fast your jab needs to be, but not everyone can do it, even if they want to do it.

• 36:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  You know, so, yeah.

• 36:05Rich Roll?

  And was your training like?

• 36:08Rich Roll?

  Is it different for female boxers than it is for men? Is the training exactly the same?

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 36:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  I mean, meeting is not different at all. It's the same. So it's just like, I don't know if it's different for running for women as it is for men.

• 36:20Rich Roll?

  No, probably not.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Not at all. So the thing is with women, especially larger women, I have to, I trained against men. So I sparred against men.

• 36:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Not that you always have to, but for me, that's what it ended up being. Cause I'd be bringing some, you'd be like, okay, who can I spar with? I'm bringing this girl in from out of town and keep, you know, come to training camp for two weeks. After taking a beating day after day, they start wearing down and they're not a help to me anymore. So then it was like, okay, let me just start sparring with just guys. And it kind of just faded out the women altogether.

• 36:51Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Um, and you, then you have to find the balance because men are always going to be stronger than women. So then it was like, okay, I'm going to spar with 145 pounder, even though I'm 168. And he still can't like try to kill me, you know what I mean? So they have to find that balance. So you gotta find someone who's super skilled enough to where, cause if you get a fighter that doesn't have a lot of experience, as soon as I crack them, they're going to get mad and they're not going to be able to control themselves. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah.

• 37:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I had Frank Shamrock in here, MMA fighter. And he has this rule, it's, it's, it's called plus minus zero, something like that. Which basically means you, you have to spread your, your, um, your efforts,

• 37:35Rich Roll?

  with different kinds of people. So you spar with the person who's just a little bit better than you. And then you're with the person who's perfectly matched for you. And then you work with someone who's not as good as you. Like you're sort of paying it forward to that person. And when you have that blend of those three things, that's like his equation for, you know, progressing efficiently.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  That works. I mean, I haven't, I haven't ever broke it down in that way, but for the most part, yeah, you do. So if you, I've been in there with people who weren't as good as me and I'm going to take it easy on them. But at the same time, I'm gonna try, take chances that I wouldn't normally take with somebody else.

• 38:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  You see, so and it's like, it's a, it's a mouth, it's having discipline because you can say, I'm only gonna jab, no matter what, no matter how hard that other person's going. And I, in the back of my mind, always have my right hand, which is hard, which is gonna stop you. Like, if I want you to get off of me, I'mma hit you with that, and then you're gonna be like, whoa. But if I can't do that, now I gotta move, I have to use my feet, I have to be smart, I have to do other things. So, yeah, it's a balance.

• 38:32Rich Roll?

  And you, did you do the weight cut thing too, after the weigh-in and all that?

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Um, I didn't, so.

• 38:37Rich Roll?

  You're just at 166, 168, right? Just stay there?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  168, I'm not fat anymore, I'm 200 pounds a day, but 168, um, was my weight. And early on in my career, I used to come in at like 164, 165, easy. I didn't have to lose weight, cuz I was a lean, strong, 164, you know? But a lot of times, say if you're a man, and the lighter weights you fight at, you have less, not as much power to deal with, you wanna try to come down as small as you can. Cuz that's what everyone else is doing. So, um, that's why they would cut weight. Whereas, cuz if you, if you, if you're walking around at 175, and you've tried to fight at 175 as a man, you're probably fighting guys who are really 215 and came down. So, I didn't have to do that, I didn't really, now as I got older, I started coming around 175, cuz your body just changes, and it was harder for me to make 168.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  And I remember having weeks, the week of the fight, I had to lose 10 pounds. So, it was just like, then, then at that point, yeah, you're like, it's water weight for the most part, but yeah.

• 39:33Rich Roll?

  Was it ever close? I mean, 24 and 0, did you, I mean, did you just like waltz through all these people?

• 39:39Speaker 01

  No, I've had some tough fights. I had some tough fights, and especially I fought with the flu, four times. And of course, while I was fighting, nobody knew. But I was like on death's door, you know, like when you have 102 temperature, and I was like, oh.

• 39:50Rich Roll?

  Full-on fever, fighting?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Full-on fever, full-on fever, like just weak, like by the second round. I remember I fought Joe Frazier's daughter, Jackie Frazier, and I was sick for that fight.

• 40:00Rich Roll?

  Might've been a little press about that.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was, I was sick, and nobody knew, and, and it was funny, cuz my husband, our husbands were co-promoting the fight, my ex-husband, and I was, no way I was gonna pull out. And I was just like, okay, she's, she's nothing. I'm gonna, this is gonna be an easy fight. So I was like, I could still fight her si- sick, you know? So you get mentally ready and I felt fine and I got in there and by the third round, I was, she was tougher than I thought she was gonna be. I was weaker than I thought I was gonna be. I literally by the third round was like, okay, this is gonna be, this is jacked up. So then like I, I would go back to my corner and I wouldn't even sit down. I was like, if I sit down, I'm not gonna get back up. So I was like, winning the fight, but I definitely would have stopped her, like, you know, probably by the fourth round, but I didn't have the power. So that fight went the distance and I won.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  And then I regret not having a rematch though for that.

• 40:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I would, I would think that that would be a fight that there'd be a lot of pressure to have a rematch.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  And I didn't, and it was because of me, because I didn't have a rematch clause and I was kind of, I didn't want to fight her in the first place because it was right in that time when everyone wasn't really taking me serious. Why is she doing this? And then she, her, her, her career was inspired by mine. She started, and then it be- it became like a side.

• 41:08Rich Roll?

  It's like a Rocky movie.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:10Rich Roll?

  It's like the kids are gonna, you know.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, she's not serious. I'm serious. That's how I felt. And I was like, but I had to fight her because it was like, why wouldn't you? And then people wanted to see it. There was money there. But I was like, after that fight, I said, I wanted to fight girls who have titles. I'm ready to start fighting real champions. So I was so adamant about that, that I was like, no, I'm not doing this again. But I wish that I would have because, you know, first of all, it would have just been smart business. I just, you know, like I said, I had something to prove and I let that get in the way.

• 41:36Rich Roll?

  Well, having something to prove and then having all this press about like, oh, she's just, you know, the daughter and like having to live in that shadow. I would imagine allowed you to kind of tap into that, that, that anger, you know, and unleash that in the ring.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I don't, I didn't just use that. I use like the anger that I feel for kids that are abused, for sex trafficking, whatever it is that, that, that just all these things are going on in our world that just chip away at you. Like when you're watching the news and you're just like. God, you know, it's just like, what can you do about it? Like, what can you really do about it? You just feel, I feel anyway, like, and I'm saying, these are, I'm talking about now, but back then, whatever was going on back then, and during those times, you know, I would just kind of make this moment bigger than being just about myself. Like, I'm going in here to fight for the world. So whatever you can do mentally, it's like, it really made me feel like a beast, like a monster. Like, I'm going in here to fight this girl. I'm not going to face a war.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Nobody's gonna hit me from behind my head. I'm not, I see her, she's right in front of me, she's got two hands, just like me, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the winner, period. So it's just like, when you're coming in there, like, you know what I mean? It was just like.

• 42:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, that's, you know, that speaks to the Ali legacy. I mean, the idea of making it about something more than you, right? And I mean, nobody was better than that, than your dad, about really using his platform to, you know, call into question certain conventional wisdoms and to speak truth to power and to be as, you know, genuine and authentic and as honest as he possibly could be for the betterment of, of people and things that extended far beyond boxing.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And he was in a position where he was forced to have to do it, you know, in terms of just everything he was up against, you know, with going to the war and, you know, fighting against going to the war and the civil rights movement, all these things that he had right there at his doorstep. He had to face. So I didn't have that situation. So I never told anybody. Those are my secret things, what I take to get into my, you know, super girl suit, you know what I mean, to go in there and, and fight. I could talk about it now, but it was a little, you know, it was a little different. But yeah, that same thing that's in him is in me. And I think that anyone who does anything where they feel like they're doing it for other people and for a bigger cause, understands that. People who are working for nonprofit organizations and all this hard work that isn't easy, it's like, if it was just you. Maybe if it was just for you, maybe you would quit or give up.

• 44:04Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  But you're like, I can't, you know, so.

• 44:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, in the movie, he, what I didn't realize, or I didn't fully appreciate was just how bold a move it was for him to, you know, speak out against the war and opt out of that whole thing. And you see all the other African American athletes who are hesitant about that. And there wasn't the solidarity that I think in my mind, I thought was actually taking place during that time.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  There were certain athletes that finally stepped up. But I mean, and I say this now, it's like, you can't expect everyone to be like Muhammad Ali.

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Because, you know, most people, not just athletes, don't want to put their livelihood on the line, you know, they don't want to, at the time, you know, they don't want to put their safety, the safety of their family on the line, especially if it's not something they feel, they truly feel they can make a difference. You have to first feel like this is sacrifice is going to make a change. Because there's a lot of people that speak out and try to make sacrifices and they feel like it doesn't really change anything. But now they're out of a job and they're out of their money and their kids are, you know, in danger, whatever the case may be. So, you know, everyone's going to do things on, my dad is special. He's a special human being, you know what I mean?

• 45:17Rich Roll?

  True that.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  He's not just, you know, it's like, you know what I mean? You can't expect anyone else to be like him. But there were certain athletes that got behind him, you know, which was great.

• 45:26Rich Roll?

  So how do you kind of carry that mantle forward? Like, how do you, you know, exude, you know, his legacy and try to, you know, continue to, you know, breathe life into it through the things and the things you do and the choices that you made?

• 45:40Speaker 01

  It takes a balance for me. I mean, it's like, now my father's passed away, he's not here anymore. I think about that more. Because before that, it was kind of like, hmm, what am I going to do, like I said, for me and my life? And a lot of it naturally happened, the things that I care about. I try not to, I don't want it to be a burden on me. Because as great as my father was, an amazing

• 46:01Speaker 01

  You know, all the changes he made in the world, I still have my life to live.

• 46:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you know, the real guy when the cameras aren't on.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Oh, man. So come on, like, that's, that's, that's what that he shaped my view of, of people like, okay, this, these people are looking up to this guy. No, I'm just joking. But, um, we're none of us are perfect, but I'm just saying, I am really passionate about health and wellness and encouraging people to be the absolute best version of themselves, similar to what you're into doing. And this becomes very natural to me. I've done it myself. I'm still doing it myself. It's an ongoing process and I try to, um, this confidence that I have, that I wish I could put it in a bottle, is something I was born with. Um, but I wish that for everyone that they had enough self-love, because I think that's what it really comes down to is confidence starts with self-love.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  And you have to love yourself enough to know that you're not going to be perfect. You're going to make mistakes and that's okay. Like I was just saying a few minutes ago, I, my father, being as amazing as he is, he wasn't nowhere near perfect. So as a kid, I watched that. I saw his mistakes. I know all the things about him that are like, what? Crazy, you know? But he still is this amazing human being. So I'm like, if he's not perfect, nobody is. You know what I mean? So first you just have to know that because most people are afraid to go after the things they really want to do, to say the things they really want to feel, to really, um, you know, find their purpose because they're afraid of screwing up. You know, they're afraid of what people are going to say. And it's like, when you don't have that feeling, your, the possibilities are limitless.

• 47:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Uh, it's hard. It's really hard, you know? And just looking at your dad as a, as an example, like, he wasn't afraid to say ever, he wasn't ever afraid to say what he thought, no matter what people thought. Like, he was completely divorced from public opinion about his behavior and his actions. And, and that's, you know, what's so inspiring and empowering about his example. And I think most people walk around, myself included, you know, second guessing myself. And I think there's an epidemic of people just feeling like, They're not enough, you know, and there's a lot of pressure, especially in the digital Instagram age of measuring ourselves against other people or the, you know, public facing image

• 48:11Rich Roll?

  of other people. And it's very easy to just feel like, you know, what do I have to contribute? And I, you know, I can't make a difference and, and, you know, how can I be, you know, how can I excel in all these different categories? There's all these expectations and pressures on me and it's impossible. So people just retreat into their self-loathing.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  I know, I know. And, and I mean, I see it all the time. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's like, I really, one of the things that I want to do, and when you ask me carrying on the torch, and I'm like, okay, so what can I do? Obviously, I'm already doing, you know, through my, my website, lelali.com, and through my speaking and through my products, and just my whole Le Lali Lifestyle brand is empowering people to be the best they can be. And I'm talking about, I start with nutrition and food, but it's about empowering, empowering your mindset, empowering your purpose, empowering your, your health, replenishing, I'm sorry, replenishing all those things. But then I want to go deeper. So I actually want to do a process that, you know, people can download to kind of find that confidence. So that's

• 49:16Speaker 01

  something that I obviously wouldn't be able to do by myself. Right now, it's just an idea, but it's something that I really want to do. And I really want to start with young girls, you know, and women, and then kind of just go from there. So it's just an idea that I have because I think that that is the basis of what you said is that self-love. And, you know, really just accepting yourself for who you are first. You have to do it before anybody else will, then just kind of moving on from there.

• 49:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So what does that process look like for you?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  For me?

• 49:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, like, I mean, if you were to, if you were to like, I know you're, it's just an idea at this point, but if you were to like hash out, like, all right, here's how I would take somebody through a process of helping them to do that in their own life.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  I think that it definitely is going to be a series of, you know, Items, I mean, things that you're gonna read, things you're gonna download, workbooks to write, to work things out, because you have to figure out a lot of things within yourself. You know, and people have to be ready to put that mirror in front of them. That's the one thing that you need to do first. So, I mean, working with other individuals who, you know, ha- I, cuz the thing for me, my struggle is I'm naturally confident.

• 50:24Rich Roll?

  Right, so it's like you just have that.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, how can you just tell someone, but, but there are things that I'm not as confident about. So, you know, so I can relate to certain things, like people would think that, like I said, when I go into the ring, I'm winning this fight. No question about it. But I'm not that way with everything else.

• 50:43Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  So like for now, I have to challenge myself because other opportunities always come up for me and then I'll be like, for example, someone to say, oh, why don't you come speak at this college or whatever. And I'm like, oh, I didn't even finish school. Like, what am I gonna say to them? Then I get a little insecure. Like, why would I go up there and, and talk? And then I'll like, no, I don't wanna do it. Then my business partner pushed me, no, you need to go do this. And I'm like, I have fear. I'm like, no, I don't wanna go do it. I'm not, cuz I'm not that smart when it comes to book smarts. You know, I'm like, so I have a, uh, insecurity there, like literally, like I don't wanna go on trivia, you know, shows or game shows or things like that, cuz I don't want people to know how much I don't fucking know. You know what I mean? Like, really, like, I'm like, cuz I missed out on a lot of school. So like, that is an insecurity in my.

• 51:23Rich Roll?

  So, so what's the solution for you for that? To say yes to that stuff?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you, not all of it. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not all of it.

• 51:31Rich Roll?

  Smart here.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But, um, but definitely to, I have to say, like I tell my friends, I'm like, F fear, like, just do it. Just take a chance. So some, sometimes that's what I have to do. I have to say, I'm just gonna go for it, you know? I'm gonna put it out there. And then once I've done it, I'll be like, okay, you know, I can look, process it and say, uh, I'm not gonna do it again, or at least I did it that one time, or I, or I learned something I didn't know about myself. So, yeah.

• 52:01Rich Roll?

  Self-love begins with self-acceptance. And, and you know, I like what you said about the mirror. Like, you gotta be able to look in the mirror and, and hold yourself accountable to yourself. And I think, you know, a big, I think it begins with understanding that fundamentally, most people seek that through external inputs. Like, if I can get that person to date me, or if I can get that car, or that job, or, or whatever, that that's gonna solve the problem. And the truth is, that's the wrong way to look at it. Like, it begins with the inside. You have to turn that gaze inward and start to, you know, deconstruct whatever's going on

• 52:43Rich Roll?

  inside of you and unpack, like, whatever, whether it's childhood trauma, or whatever your repetitive, you know, behavior patterns that hold you back are, just fully understanding those and accepting yourself for having those, I think, is the beginning of trying to work through them to get to the other side.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  We're so complex as human beings, you know? It's like, I can, I can be watching this podcast and be inspired and go, "Man, I wanna do that," you know? And then it's just like, it's, it's really about working on certain things and being focused and consistent with, you know? It's like, you can't think of everything all at once, or it just becomes overwhelming and nothing gets done, you know? So it's just like-

• 53:21Rich Roll?

  How about, like, just not going to Burger King for your next meal? Like, let's start there, right?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Yes, start, like, yeah. Well, I, I remember I met this gentleman on the airplane, and he was like 400 pounds overweight, and we just got to talk, and I talked to him for the whole flight. It was like a five-hour flight. By the end of the flight, you know, he talked about his struggles, his ups and downs, and why he wasn't able to lose weight. And I said, "Look, what are you, so what are you gonna go eat after you, you know, get off this plane? Let's just be honest." And he's like, "I'm gonna go get like a quarter, two quarter-pounders, a large fry, and a large supersized drink." I was like, "Okay, can you go get-" One quarter pounder, a fry and a medium drink. He's like, I mean, do you really think you can do that? He was like, yeah, I think I can do that. I said, then just start there.

• 54:00Rich Roll?

  That's a win.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Just start there. I said, and then, you know, ease, then, then get to where you get a small fry. And then, and then get to where can you eat a salad before you go get? Like, a lot of times, we think about all these things we need to stop doing. And my thing is like, okay, for those people who really just feel like they just keep failing all the time, it's almost like they subconsciously expect to fail because they haven't been able to, to get past certain things they're trying to do. So, instead of thinking about all the things you have to take away, what can you add? Like, don't even think about taking anything away. Just can you get a, a smoothie in for breakfast? And then, if you're still hungry, go ahead and have that cinnamon roll, whatever. You know what I mean? And then, can you just get a, a green salad before your meal? Can you drink a glass of water? Okay, let's just start adding these things.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Stop thinking about what we need to take away. Then they start, first of all, they're gonna feel fuller, they're gonna get some nutrients, they're gonna start cutting out, you know, some of the other food that they eat. Let's just start with that. Like, let's not, you know, because there's just so many things. Oh, you just need to do this to be healthy. You just need to do that, you need to do that. It's very overwhelming, you know? So, that works well for a lot of people that I, that I've, um, you know, worked with.

• 55:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think the more granular you can make it, and you break these things down that are so overwhelming that it just prevents people from ever even beginning into the smallest, you know, little chunks, then it becomes digestible. And, you know, self-esteem comes with performing esteemable acts, and that applies to, you know, service to others, but it also applies to service to ourselves, right? And so, you know, if that guy, like, hey, can you take the stairs and not the escalator when you get off the plane? Or just like, the, just like one thing. And, once you do that, you're like, oh, I did that. I can do that next time, too. I feel a bit better than I would if I had done that other thing. So now, you feel more energized and more emotionally connected to the process,

• 55:49Rich Roll?

  and you're more likely to make that better choice the next time around as well. And then that stuff builds.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 55:55Rich Roll?

  And I think, you know, I've said this many times before, but I think people overestimate the progress that they can make in a, you know, a month or six months, and they wildly underestimate the progress that they could make in a year. So, that guy on the plane, if he just did tiny little things, but he was consistent about it, like, a year from now, you know, maybe he's lost a hundred pounds. So, he's not done, but he's like, on his way.

• 56:21Rich Roll?

  And, and he did it in a way where it didn't even feel that painful because it was so gradual.

• 56:26Speaker 01

  That's what I'm always, always saying. I'm like, six months from now, you're either gonna be healthier and have lost weight, you're gonna be the same, or you're gonna have gained weight. So it's like, just make these small changes and you're gonna look up, you know, I just, I just, even for myself, I mean, I fall off the wagon sometimes because I was healthy 10 years ago and I'm healthier now. You know, because the obvious things I did, you know, when I first started boxing, I was like, okay, you know, you gotta eat healthier, but I still didn't really understand quality of food and organic food and non-GMOs and all those things. I wasn't at that level yet. But it was like, I was always on this quest to get better. You just wanna make sure you're trying to get better and you're, you're, you know, actually starting some sort of a process. There's gonna be mistakes along the way.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  You know, you're gonna, you know, find out new information. All these people that try all these different eating styles, they're trying to figure out what works for them, what they can actually, you know, do for the rest of their life. But it's gonna change even then. Like, I can't eat the same way that I did five years ago even. You know, as your body changes, as you get older, you know, you just, you just have different needs.

• 57:27Rich Roll?

  I think the self-love applies to accepting yourself for making those mistakes too. Because I think people set themselves up for long-term failure when they have a slip-up or they make a mistake and then they just give up. They're like, well, it's too hard. You know, it's like, no, you just, that's just feedback, you know, yeah, like, oh, let's, let's try to figure out why you made that choice. Maybe you don't make it next time. And just be more gentle on yourself and a little bit more permissive of those mistakes and use it all as a learning experience as opposed to, you know, a cane to like, you know, to like smack yourself with.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  I just love that there's so many resources people have now for help. Because, you know, it's like, you can listen to this one conversation and try to go do this by yourself. And then you don't have that voice in you, you know, and that support, like what you just said. It's like people need to hear that on a regular basis, you know, because you're gonna slip up and you're gonna have issues. You're gonna need to reset. You're gonna need to remind yourself because then life happens. You know what I mean? It's like I, I start off like, I'm gonna do this, this, this and that, and I'm doing it. And then at some point I stop and then like months go by, I look back, oh God, I stopped doing that. Because something happened that took my attention. Right. That. When you interrupt the momentum. Yeah. Just like, oh wait, oh God, I gotta get back on that, you know, so.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  What do you think holds people back the most? Fear. And that can be so many things, you know, fear and then probably just um their habits. Like you just have a habit, things that they just can't let go of. You know, and like I just, like I just answered that off the top of my head. But that definitely holds people back from following their dreams, following their heart, taking chances, fear. Yeah. Um, and then in terms of just reaching their goals and a lot of what you talk about is health and wellness goals. It's just, you know, their habits, you know, and, and we have to.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Like, you know, it's like we wanna be gentle, but at the same time, you need to give yourself a kick in the ass sometimes. I have to do it sometimes, like when I'm, you know, when I'm, when I fall off and I'm having more sugar than I need to have. It's just like, just you, girl, stop it. Like I have a coach in my own head though, just stop. Like, I don't like feeling like I can't be in control of my own, myself and my own actions. So it's like, but that's the thing, that's, that's a my thing. Not everybody feels that way. Yeah. But it's like, when I start feeling like, wait a minute, I just put that in my mouth. I didn't even think about it. It's just that now I ate it and I was like, I didn't even wanna eat that, but I was stressed out. You know, and I had a weak moment and it was around and I like it, you know, so then it was just like boom. You know what I mean? And then, then that's when I'm like, okay, you're not gonna do that again. You know, and I was like, set, set a boundary for myself.

• 1:00:14Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  But it's like-

• 1:00:15Rich Roll?

  But you'll probably do it again.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:00:18Rich Roll?

  I mean, it's like, we're human beings, you know? It's like, yes, the, the only thing that we have control over are, are, are actions and our reactions, right?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:28Rich Roll?

  And, but, but I think more often than not, that's like, running on, you know, our unconscious mind is controlling most of that, most of the time. And the more mindful and kind of rooted in the present that we can be, then we're more aware of when we're reflexively like, doing those kinds of things. But it's hard. And I think we, we have this sense that we can control our environments better than we actually can. We really can't. You know, there's, there's people and variables and things happen. And I think people sort of set these goals or, or begin these trajectories to, you know, improve themselves in some various way. And there'll be some interceding event that interferes with like, their plan.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:09Rich Roll?

  And they're like, well, I can't do it. And it's like, but that's, that's just the way the world works. Like, you gotta learn how to roll with that shit.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:15Rich Roll?

  If you wanna stay in it. And staying in it is the, is, is, is the winning strategy.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  What I do is, I expect that there's gonna be some, some kind of a disruptor. Not in a negative way, like, cause you don't wanna just be negative about everything. But in terms of, like, I like to just know things are gonna happen. So when they happen, it's not that big of a deal to me. It's like, you know, I'm gonna jump over that, I'm gonna swerve, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna stay. It's like, it's like a, a game, you know?

• 1:01:42Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  So of just staying on track. So I know that everyone has a different way of thinking. But like you said, you can't control anyone else, you can only control your own actions and how you respond to certain situations. And I, I like to take responsibility for my own actions. So when things don't go my way, or something happens, I always think, what could I have done differently? Even if it comes down to something someone else did and someone can say, well, no, that wasn't on you, that was on them. I'm like, would I might have chose to put that person in the picture in my life?

• 1:02:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Let me think why I did that and how I can prevent those, because those red flags were there. So I can still bring it back to the choice I made, you know, and just try to figure, that's how, how serious I am about it. Like, I try to figure out, okay, how can I just change things? But then again, I can't get too caught up in that also because I can't be in that much control all the time. So that's the mind of a control freak, you know?

• 1:02:28Rich Roll?

  But you can always do an inventory.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:30Rich Roll?

  You can always, no matter, you know, how many people tell you, you were right and they were wrong.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:35Rich Roll?

  I guarantee you that you contributed to whatever happened in some way. And the more skilled you can become at identifying what your part is, because I think that's another thing where our unconscious mind takes over and we're like, I didn't do anything wrong. And you need other people in your life to call you on that stuff and say, actually, here's, here's what you keep doing all the time and you're not even aware that you're doing it. And that's why you keep ending up in these

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:59Rich Roll?

  shitty situations.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Right. And if you don't want to call it wrong, just what can you do differently to have a different outcome? You keep doing the same thing, you're gonna have the same outcome. We hear it all the time. It's like, okay, why, why are you doing, don't you think maybe you should just try something?

• 1:03:13Rich Roll?

  Easy for you, Laila. It's easy for you. You're, you're this and that and the other thing. Like, you don't understand my problems.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:19Rich Roll?

  You know? And it's tough to break through out of that, you know? I'm sympathetic to that. But, so, all right, so you conclude your, your, your boxing career and now you're like in this, you know, you're this like wellness entrepreneur. Like, how did that come about? Like, how did you decide, like, this is the, this is the avenue I want to pursue?

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  So when I retired from boxing, I go, went through what most athletes go through when they retire. It's just kind of, hmm, what am I gonna do now? Right? Because I did what I loved and what I was passionate about and I put my all into. And it took me about five or six years to really figure that out because I was, you know, I had all these opportunities with TV hosting and all that, but I wasn't really fulfilled. And I don't even love being on TV. It's like something I do because I know I need to do, but I'm not like that person, like, I want to be on TV, you know? It's just good for business. But I realized I'm really passionate about helping people with their health and their wellness. I'm writing out meal plans for friends and always helping people. And I was like, you know, what can, how can I make this a business for myself or this something that I can really focus on?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  And that's when I started Lele Ali Lifestyle Brand and I started my website and my blog. And you know, I had a podcast at one time and I came out with my cookbook Food for Life. Now I have Lele Ali Spice Blends, which are like my baby. I brought some for you. Yeah, I know, I'm excited. I'm so excited about those. And then I have a nutrition line called YouPlenish. So, and I'm very hands-on. When I say hands-on, I'm talking about down to the, I'll call, go Google and be like, hmm, find the organic spice company. And I'll call them up and say, hmm, you know, what's the minimum order? And I'm like dealing with these people when it comes to my labels and everything because I wanted to really approach it like any other entrepreneur who was just starting.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  And I'm also, you know, like, I don't like to wait on people. So when I want to answer, I'll get it for myself. So that's why I do most things myself because like I wanted to pick up the phone and call right now. Not only that, there's no blueprint to what it is that I was, what I'm trying to do. So, you know, I, you know, when it came to the spice blends even, it was just like, there was, I was like, who can I call that's done this before? Yeah. That can help me and not look at me as Lele Ali. You know, like, look at me as just a regular female entrepreneur, you know, because then it's like, oh, we can put you with this person and they can, you know, then they want to be a part of the deal. And then it becomes something it's not. And I was like, no, I don't want that. I don't want to have to answer anyone. So that's been a fun quest for me because I'm making a lot of mistakes along the way. We talk about mistakes.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  But I wouldn't have it any other way. And it took me like five years to finally get my spice blends packaged and ready to sell. So they're up online and the spice blends were so important to me because ever since I was nine years old, I've been cooking. And when I told you we moved to Malibu and, you know, I had the dysfunctional childhood. We had a house that was a big house and it was a guest house and a house connected. So my sister and I lived in the guest house. We had our own kitchen. My mom didn't cook. And I learned to cook at an early age and I was always really good at flavoring foods, seasoning food. So that's really what makes the difference between people's recipes, you know? So I had a real talent for that, balancing flavors. I've even competed on Chopped. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  I competed on Chopped and won twice. You did? You won? Oh, yeah, I won twice. Yeah, oh, yeah. I'm a Chopped champion. You're legit. I'm proud of that, yeah. And it was the flavors. It was the seasoning and. So I started the spice blends because I think that anyone can take plants, vegetables, and you know, if you have a good seasoning, you know, then you can make them taste amazing. So I have organic non-GMO spice blends and I'm gonna, I'm gonna add to the line. And yes, I feel it was a real accomplishment.

• 1:06:56Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Did you teach yourself how to cook or how did you learn how to do that?

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  I pretty much taught myself. I called my grandma a couple of times and said, Grandma, my grandma's from Louisiana. I was like, you know, I remember the first time I was making a gumball. I said, how do you make roux? And she told me over the phone and you know, I just perfected it from then on. So I've called her over the phone. I've learned a lot, just like a lot of people do, watching, watching on TV, you know, as a kid. But yeah, most of the cooking is all on my own, but I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm definitely just a home cook. Like I'm not, and I don't bake because that's something you really have to know what you're doing, science behind it.

• 1:07:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a specific thing.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not really my thing. But yeah, cooking, I throw down.

• 1:07:33Rich Roll?

  You got your hands on a lot of stuff. It reminds me, do you know John Sally?

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:07:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he's like guys all over the place. Every time I see him, he's got some new business. He's got the vegan wines and he's got the cannabis company and he's got, I mean, it's crazy. Like his, he has so much energy and he's so passionate about so many different things. And he's, has this entrepreneurial spirit and he keeps giving birth to like all these different, I mean, a lot of it's nutrition oriented, but like even other things as well.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't have that much going on. That's not me. No, I don't have that much. Yeah, I'm like, I got the spice blends. So I have Le Lali lifestyle. And then I believe in, you know, with me, I've had shakes since I was boxing. I'd have a smoothie or a shake because it was just like, okay, how can I get all this nutrition in without actually having to eat, give my body a break from breaking the food down. So after I'd go running in the morning, I'd get up, run the mountains, come back, I'd have a shake. So I'm not, after I did all that work, I'm not gonna make my body work again to digest food. Then I'd go to sleep, then I'd wake up and have my breakfast and then I'd have another shake after I worked out again. So that's, I've been doing shakes so long, so even now I have a shake for breakfast because it's like, I don't wanna have to think about my maca powder, my green powder, my, all these things and all these nutrients. I'd rather just get it all in my shake, know I got it in.

• 1:08:44Rich Roll?

  One thing.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then everything else is just on top of that. So that's why, for me, that's one of the easiest ways for people who aren't currently getting the nutrition they need is like, okay, why don't you just have a shake?

• 1:08:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  You know, and just make sure it's in there and then it's not so overwhelming and just make that part of your daily nutrition. So, and then just the basics like vitamins, you know, green powders. I have a fourteen day cleanse for a lot of people just need to cleanse that, that, you know, all that out that's not coming out. So, you know, the nutrition is one thing, but then the cooking is just teaching people that, you know, food doesn't have to be complicated, you know? It doesn't have to be complicated. It's just like, but we definitely want to have amazing flavors when we do eat.

• 1:09:24Rich Roll?

  We've, uh, we've lost our connection with cooking in so many ways. Like, people are just busy, man. We, our lives are so fast paced now that people don't learn how to cook. And, you know, then it just becomes intimidating and you just think, well, I never learned how to do that and I'm probably never will. And the truth is, most of it's pretty simple.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Food.

• 1:09:45Rich Roll?

  Learned pretty quickly.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't, they don't know how and a lot of times I just don't want to take the time because like you said, it seems so overwhelming. But like literally, you know, it's like, when you learn how easy it is, especially if you just want to throw something in the oven and roast, you know, you can roast some veggies on a pan and season them up with a little bit of oil and you're done. You know, it's like, then they're like, oh, okay, I get it, you know? But even if for those who are, aren't cooking, it's like, at least when you do eat, you know, get your food some, from somewhere that you know has quality food. You know, so, cause some people just aren't gonna stop and, and cook.

• 1:10:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  I love to cook and I understand that food, the love that goes into cooking, the energy that goes into cooking, like whenever you're at a restaurant, you don't know who's in the back of that kitchen cooking your food and what they're feeling and they're mad and what's going on in their life and they're, they're moving your food and giving it to you and you're eating that energy. Like when you think about it, that, yeah, like you're out eating that.

• 1:10:36Rich Roll?

  I believe in that.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  No, I do too.

• 1:10:38Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  I do too. That's why, like soul food, that's where that came about when all the women in the kitchen, you know, and, and African American community and they're sitting around, they're... Sitting there and there's this family together and you're chopping up the potatoes and you're, you know, you're peeling this and doing that. And it's like all the love that goes into that is something, you know, so and a lot of things have changed. We don't, we don't cook as much. We don't sit around the table and eat together. We're not as healthy as we used to be. You know, all this stuff is connected.

• 1:11:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Meanwhile, we can sit around and talk about, you know, maca powder and green smoothies and things like that. But the real battlefield is trying to get people away from pulling into the drive through, you know, and speaking to that, you know, population of people that are suffering from diabetes and obesity and heart disease at just alarming rates. Like that's, I, I feel like, you know, we need more solutions and focus on trying to provide healthy nutrition and education and affordable solutions to people who have a good argument when they say, listen, you know, I don't have time. I'm working two or three jobs and I don't have the budget, you know,

• 1:11:45Rich Roll?

  I can't go get all these healthy foods. And, and I, it's just, you know, I've got a kid screaming in the back. I'm just gonna, I'm pulling through the drive through, done, I've taken care of it.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you're talking about, especially in the African American community,

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  which is one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about, you know, the, you know, educating that I do, because a lot of people, it's like they don't know, they, they just don't know better. They don't even realize that what they're eating a lot of time, people know obviously burgers and fries and pizza aren't healthy, but I'm talking about just even when they think they are eating something that's healthier, you know, that's processed and has all these chemicals in it. And it's not even food. It's food like, you know, and it's like somebody's sitting around in the office trying to figure out what chemicals they can put in it to make you want it more and be addicted to it. You know what I mean? And it's like, you really want to educate people about that. And then also teach them ways that So you have people who, they say it to me all the time, well, I can't afford to eat

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  that way, you know, and it's like, okay, well, we need to figure out how we can eat. You don't have to have these, you know, um, high end meals every night. It's like, can you, you know, even if it's rice and beans, there's a lot of nutrients in beans, you know, and it's like, I'm a meat eater, but I have reduced the amount of meat that I eat um, for multiple reasons, but when I do eat, I eat, you know, organic, you know, GMO free, free ran, you know, all the highest quality I can get, but I'm always telling people also, it's like, reduce the amount of animal foods that you eat, you know?

• 1:13:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Um, and because not everybody, you know, is ready to go vegan.

• 1:13:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  You know, so it's just like, but you can get to the point where, you know, 75% of the food on your plate is plant-based food.

• 1:13:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Uh, I mean, setting the whole vegan thing aside, you know, people, you know, meat, meat began as like a delicacy side dish, and at some point, we decided that that has to predominate our plates, and we just eat insane amounts of meat right now, and I just think there's no question that it's contributing to a lot of the problems. I mean, certainly processed food and sugar and all, you know, I'm not dismissing any of that, but I think we could all benefit from.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:13:53Rich Roll?

  Reducing our intake.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Definitely. I think, like I said, no matter, even if you're not a vegan or vegetarian, it's like, even if you're a meat eater like me, I think that you definitely need to reduce the amount. You don't need to be eating meat every single meal. You don't need to be eating it every single day, and when you do eat it, it should be a very small portion of meat, you know, on your plate, so.

• 1:14:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah. How's the, uh, what does the fitness workout routine look like for you these days?

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  I mix it up. So right now, um, I'm really liking, so I have a heavy bag, I have a home gym.

• 1:14:22Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  I usually hit the heavy bag for like four rounds, 15 minutes, um, and then I will, that's like my warm-up.

• 1:14:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  Then I will get on my, like my warm-up, and then I get, and then I get on my elliptical stairs.

• 1:14:36Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Um, and, and I get on my elliptical stairs, and I have a treadmill, so I might do like some, you know, high intensity training, um, some sprinting on my, my treadmill, and then I have a, a infrared sauna. I like to incorporate that at the end of my workout.

• 1:14:50Rich Roll?

  Like a clear light one?

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  A sunlighting.

• 1:14:52Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Oh, cool.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  And I get in, um, I get in there for like 30 minutes after, uh, my workout, um, but then I, you know, I might do some free weights. I like to mix it up, but I also love to run, but my knees aren't that, that good. So I'm like, you know, we all just are built different. So I've been told not to run, but I still run, you know, and I ice my knees and it's just like, it's really hard. So like if I run, I literally, I can have not ran for two years, but I can go out there and just do four or five miles. Cause it's just still in me, but at by the end of five miles, I'm like, oh, I'm looking like that last mile. I'm looking like, okay, when is this gonna be over? And I love running around here. Like I'll just go on a Gora road and just run straight up, you know. The trails, well, the trails at the End of Lost Versionist too, like all around. Oh yeah. I don't like running the mountains though. You don't? I'm a little funny about like.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  I'll take you out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm good. And then my husband, my husband like, don't go out there by yourself. Mountain lines? Yeah, no, just, just period. Just people out there and you know, just you just never know. And then I'm a, I'm a recognizing person. All the time. Oh, well, then I'd go, I'd go. You come with me. I'd go with you. I can't run as far as you though. It's all right. You're one of those, I call them the crazy runners. I did the New York City triathlon. Oh, you did? Yeah. And that was crazy. When'd you do that? Couple of years ago? Um, I was the mom ambassador for Aqua4 and um, no, this was like probably seven, six years ago. Uh huh. Where they do it in the Hudson? Mm hmm. Yeah. And I've never done a triathlon. I've never done anything. So I was just like, they asked me to do it and I was like, yeah, I'm an athlete. I can do it. And so they put me with this trainer, triathlon trainer. She came out here for one, two days.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  And she was like, okay, we're gonna get on the bike. Cause I'd never been on a bike to ride. So she's like, we're gonna, we ran, we rode up a Gora road, 25 miles. So we went 12 miles one way and then came back or something like that. And then we ran, I got off that bike and just running a mile was so hard just cause I was just so, you know, like just. Buckled over. Locked up. So long story short, I ended up taking on this show, didn't train like I was supposed to. So I, I did the one bike ride with her. That was it? The one 25 mile bike ride. And then I was swimming in the, at Calabasas Tennis Clinic for 45 minutes. I was like, I'm so swim for 45 minutes. I went to the open water one time to the beach. And I was so nervous about it. My friends were like, come on. So we swam to the buoys and I was like.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Take me, I was afraid of sharks. I was like, I'm never doing that again. They were like, if you can get in this ocean, then you can go get in the Hudson's. I, I got, so when I got there, I was like, these people are crazy. Like they were up with their bikes at four AM, like walking to the water. It's like a, like they're so serious about it.

• 1:17:21Rich Roll?

  It's a whole thing.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  And everyone was like, you do it one time, you're gonna fall in love with it and you're gonna do it again. I was like, we'll see. So I jumped in that Hudson, swam, did the run, I mean, I did the bike and I was afraid to switch gears.

• 1:17:35Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  Because I didn't really, like, the track would come off.

• 1:17:38Rich Roll?

  You literally only rode a bike one time.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  I literally one, one time.

• 1:17:42Rich Roll?

  So then you rode the triathlon in the same gear the whole time?

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  No, I, I changed, it was one side I was fooling with, but I wouldn't fool with the other side. So it was harder for me because I didn't know how to use a bike. Cause I was like, if this chain comes off, I'm gonna be on the side and then it's gonna be a whole thing. So I did it, but I finished in three hours and four minutes.

• 1:17:58Rich Roll?

  Good for you.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  So I was like, I did it. And when I came off, like when I came through the, um, the finish line, it was so crazy. All of a sudden my, I blacked out. My eyes were open, but I blacked out and I told my guy that was with me. I was like, Daryl, I can't see. So he held my hand. He was like, you're so hot. I was so hot. I went to the tents where you lay down and it took about 30 seconds for my vision to come back.

• 1:18:20Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  And I was just laying there for like being worked on, you know, rubbed out and all that for like an hour. And then I got up and then all of a sudden I was super hungry and they had donuts and all these things. And I was just like pigging out and I was like, I'm never doing that. I was like, I'm never doing that. I almost died.

• 1:18:33Rich Roll?

  You're gonna fall in love. You're like, uh uh.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Uh uh, I'm good.

• 1:18:36Rich Roll?

  I, it's, it's usually one or the other. It's either like, I can't wait to do it again, or like I'm, I did it. I'm, it's over with.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I look at you like.

• 1:18:44Rich Roll?

  It's different. I can't punch anyone. So.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  But I'm like, you guys are crazy. Like you're running all these miles. Like, oh my God, like what makes you wanna do that?

• 1:18:53Rich Roll?

  Well, you live, like we were joking before the podcast, like you're the first person who lives local to me, who's come over here. And it's usually it's some gigantic drive out here and you're like, yeah, down the street, you know?

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 1:19:04Rich Roll?

  But this is where all the beautiful tri, I mean, the nature around here is insane. Like once you, I live, and I lived out here for years before I got into this kind of stuff. And I didn't even realize it was like all going on around here until you start getting out there and exploring it.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  I saw your interview with, some of your interview with Lindsey Vonn and you were like, you were like, come out here with me. She's like, it's hot out here. I don't wanna come out.

• 1:19:29Rich Roll?

  So funny. Yeah, you have like, I was thinking about Lindsay because your trajectory is somewhat similar. Like retiring from this sport, you know, having a certain level of like fame and notoriety and success. And like trying to now translate your unique life experience into, you know, this wellness channel where you can be like, you know, a mentor and somebody who, who can provide, you know, products to support people. So she's done a pretty cool, you know, she's, she's doing cool things with that.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Well, that's great. I think that, um, you know, and there's going to be those who've done it and that's not their passion. You know, I just really believe in following your passion and I truly am passionate about. And I, you know, we all have a different audience, right, of people and different levels of health and wellness that people are on. I like to really get those people who are just like, I'm healthy. I only drink clear soda.

• 1:20:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  You know, we got that. I remember the first time I heard that. I'm like, what?

• 1:20:24Rich Roll?

  Clear soda.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  You just so, you know, because I, well, I don't drink the dark soda. I'm like, okay. You know, um, so I though, because I can really speak to them in a way that they understand is not over their head.

• 1:20:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  You know, so that is one thing because I'm not over the top. Like I'll still go get a glazed donut. There's a place called Blinkies in Woodland Hills. They got the best donuts ever. Oh my God. Now, look, I'm telling you, I'm that girl. Like I understand health and wellness and I understand that the fried donut and the refined sugar is not good for me. But guess what? If I love it that much, I'm going to live my life and I'm going to have one every once in a while because I'm stronger than that's going to kill me having it that one time. But I'm not going to go do that every day, you know? So it's like, I can really relate to people because like I have that person living inside me that's still like, I just want to go to Popeyes and get some fried chicken. But I'm not because that's not high quality chicken, you know, all the kind of different things. But I, I still crave some of those things is what I'm saying. So I can relate to those individuals.

• 1:21:20Rich Roll?

  And then you're relatable to the, to those people.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 1:21:24Rich Roll?

  So kind of like your conversation with the guy on the airplane, like what is, when you, when you're, when you're confronted with somebody like that, like what do you, what do you say? So that you keep it grounded and relatable and not over their head?

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  First of all, that I, it's okay. I understand, you know, because a lot of times people are ashamed. But first of all, they're they're not even comfortable in their own skin. I mean, he had to get one of those. What do you call them like belt extenders?

• 1:21:49Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  You know, and he's too uncomfortable. Yeah. And just just to take the time to listen to someone, people people wouldn't even think me as Lele Ali would sit there and talk to you for five hours. You know, so it was like just to know that someone cares. Um, and that I'm not judging you. That's one thing. And but let's try to figure out how we can um make a change here, you know, and and everything that you have tried before hasn't worked. Okay, let's do this a little differently. So a lot of times it's just like the comfort and the the whole emotional thing behind the eating in the first place is there. You know, this this person not as strong as me where they can just say, I'm just not gonna do it. Boom. You know what I mean? Because of whatever it is they're dealing with that I can't relate to. Um, but I do know that what really has worked well is just what can we add opposed to what we need to take away?

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  You know, and you got to take baby steps, baby steps in the right direction. So and I told him, I was like, yeah, reach out to me and let me know how you're doing. He never did.

• 1:22:41Rich Roll?

  He didn't?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  No, he never did. He might have lost my information.

• 1:22:44Rich Roll?

  He must have been thrilled to be sitting next to you, though.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  He was so cool. I mean, he didn't act like he was like, oh, my God. You know, he kind of was just kind of down on himself, but we had this whole conversation, but he felt good by the end of the conversation. And I see a little spark in his eyes like, yeah, I think I can do that. I think I can go get a medium fry instead of a large fry. So I said, okay.

• 1:23:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  You know, but I just appreciated that he was honest with me about what he was gonna go get. You know, so I was I had hope. I had hope for him, you know?

• 1:23:07Rich Roll?

  Well, the follow up is is the tough thing. It's like, he's probably thinking, I should reach out to her, but then, ah, she doesn't really want to hear. You know, like, there there's a self defeating narrative that takes over that prevents him from reaching out.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  Or he might be like me and just lost my information because I do it all the time. People give me something.

• 1:23:25Rich Roll?

  I doubt that. I doubt he lost your information.

• 1:23:30Rich Roll?

  And how does that work with trying to get somebody active for the first time? Same, you know, small chunks kind of advice?

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it depends on the situation because a lot of people that I'm dealing with, I can't touch them and reach out to them and, you know, work with them individually. But it's really, I really encourage people to get with a partner or get with a friend, get with someone who you guys can hold each other accountable because that's what we need. We need to be held accountable because when it's just yourself, sometimes you're like, oh, I'm not getting out of bed and nobody's gonna know. But if you have a friend, you're like, okay, I want to be there for her, you know, or I want to, I don't, you know, I want to have her back. So just being accountable, taking small steps. We just have this all or nothing attitude, you know? And we have this, I want to lose this much weight by this much time. It's like, just make progress each week. Try to go and, and account for some setbacks.

• 1:24:20Rich Roll?

  Well, change, changing habits that you can then sustain because it's about changing your lifestyle. It's not about some goal with an end date. It's about behavioral change that you can live with for the rest of your life.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Well, I tell people even, because I did a 14 day cleanse as part of my product. And yeah, you lose some weight, but you know, there's those people just want to lose weight. Well, I'm going on this vacation. It's like, okay, whatever, it's a business. If you're that person and that's why you want to do the cleanse, it's still good that you did a cleanse. But I always encourage people, after you're done with the cleanse, you need to go on to the meal planning guide that I've provided because if you want to maintain those results, you know, then that's what you need to do because it's a lifestyle change. It's like, don't go, you know, cleanse and then just go put the same old crap back in your body and all that type of thing. So if you really want to be on this journey and that's what my whole, like I said, platform and website is about, then you need to start thinking differently about how you go into it and then your purpose.

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  Because again, we all, a lot of people have had health scares and that's when they're like, oh, I want to change my life. And that's fine. I'm not going to judge you. I'm glad you're finally ready. But, um, you know, it has to be a lifestyle change, you know? Because for me, what inspires me is not to be a certain size. Yeah, I like to look good. Yeah, I like to feel fit. I don't like extra fat on my body. That's one thing that bothers me because I know, I understand that it's probably also wrapped around your organs and it's extra weight and it's just, I'm not at my best. And I know what it feels like to be at my best. So that's what I'm always chasing, right? Um, but at the same time, what was I going to say? Um, I lost my thought.

• 1:25:57Rich Roll?

  Not being, uh, not being, knowing what it's like to be at your best, you know, how, being connected to that feeling and, uh,

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:06Rich Roll?

  Not being perfect.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  That's the boxer, you know, I'm a little, a little punchy sometimes.

• 1:26:09Rich Roll?

  I thought you never got punched.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  That sucker just went, no.

• 1:26:12Rich Roll?

  You just doled out the beating.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  No, I was sparring with men. I was taking a beating in the gym. That's why the, that's why the fights were easy, but that's happened sometimes.

• 1:26:19Rich Roll?

  Did you worry about like TBI or any of that kind of stuff?

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  I don't worry, but I, I literally just lost my train of thought. So it's like, I, I always think, yeah, that has something to do. It has affected me because my memory sometimes like would be, I've, I've ran into people that are like, hey, Laila. And I'm like, you look familiar. Like, oh God, no, I need to know this person.

• 1:26:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you've probably met a ton of people.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  No, but this can be a person that literally was like, we went to high school together. Like we hung out together, like on a daily basis. And I'm like, I really don't.

• 1:26:46Rich Roll?

  Which high school?

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm just like, damn. And then it might come to me later. Oh yeah. But I'm like, how could I not remember that? Crazy.

• 1:26:55Rich Roll?

  Philanthropy, like giving back, service, you know, these are, these are big, these were big things with your dad and, and you know, you do a lot of that as well. So how does like your dad's example inform like how you think about giving back?

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  It comes natural to me. I naturally want to give. Um, I, I naturally want to help people. Um, I have certain organizations that I work with. Um, I love working with Feeding America. I have a friend who has a.

• 1:27:20Rich Roll?

  Been doing that for a long time, right?

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  Uh huh. Yeah. I have a friend that has an organization called Peace for Kids, which is smaller. It's here in LA and is for, um, kids in, in homes. Um, so I'll, I'll donate a lot of times there and go, go down and into Compton and, and work with them. And, um, you know, so I get involved with organizations that I'm really feel like I can get behind. I was, I've been involved with the Women's Sports Foundation for many years, empowering girls and women through sports. So, cause there's just so many causes. Um, but. Most of what I do is just trying to give back through, like, a lot of what I want to do with Lee Laila Spice Blends is donate a portion of the proceeds to various different organizations. So, because I believe that that's what we're all supposed to do.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  So, you know, it's just like, in, in, whether it's giving up your time, or your money, or whatever the, it may be, like, giving back in some sort of way.

• 1:28:14Rich Roll?

  And you have two kids, a parent, right? So, how do you, how do you instill in your children, like, this ethos that your dad represented? And that you're, you know, exuding in your own life? Like, what are, what are the techniques, like, by which you're raising these kids to try to ensure that they're healthy and happy? And, and, you know, care about these things that your dad cared about and that you care about?

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  I'm figuring it out along the way.

• 1:28:39Rich Roll?

  How old are your kids?

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  My, my son is 10 and my daughter's 8. And I do a lot, I let my, my spirit guide me a lot, my intuition guide me. So, I, I have my general idea of what I want to do, but it's not like a set plan. So, because, like, my son, you never know what you're gonna get with your kids. You know, and he's so, like, you would think, I would think he was gonna be like this strong, tough kind of boy, and he's that, he's got the kindest, sweetest heart. And he's just like, Tim, I, uh, he's, uh, you know, he's just like, and I'm like, man, my son, but he's strong, he's a leader, but he's a gentle, kind leader, but he's got the sweetest heart, and I worry about him, like, oh, God, you know, he's just so gentle and kind and sweet, I just wish he was a little stronger, but he is who he is.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  He doesn't belong to me, he came to this world through me. And my daughter is like this little feisty, she's like, just like me. And I'm just like, oh, man, I got my hands full with her. So, it's like, they know who their grandfather is, and they really got a real piece of it when we went out to Louisville when he passed away, and we went and they saw, you know, the Processe No, and all the people in the streets.

• 1:29:44Rich Roll?

  And they're old enough to remember that.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they were very overwhelmed by it, like, oh, my God, because they didn't realize the magnitude. So, they have a lot of pride, there's certain things, like, I didn't take them to see the Ali movie. Um, because I knew there's things in there that I'm not ready to explain to them yet. Like my kids, obviously, is when you, when you're a parent, you're black and you have kids, we have to raise our kids differently. It's because it's like, in the way, the best way I can explain it is, is like, you know, as a parent, you think, okay, when am I going to teach my kids about sex? And what am I going to teach my kids? We have to think, when are we going to teach our kids about how the world is going to be unfair to them? And you're going to have to work harder and, you know, all these things. Like, how do you tell your kids that? And how do you, what is the best age to tell them? For me, my struggle is, what is the best age to tell them how things are?

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  And how people think of them and how they're not thought of as equal? Without them not feeling that way, without them feeling, well, why is that? It must be true because these are kids, right? So like even with slavery, when you learn about that in school, it does something to you. Because you see these pictures of slaves and chains and you're that and you're like, well, are we less? You know, or are we inferior? Well, why? Well, why this and why that? And you don't understand. Well, why did God let this happen? And, you know, there's all these things that go on inside of you. So for my kids, I'm trying to figure out like, what is going to be the best age for that? Where they can still stay strong, um, without it chipping away at them like it does all of us. So I didn't want them to see that because if they saw a lot of his story, then they have, I have to deal with all that as well.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  So I'm waiting to find that balance and I'm kind of, um, but at the same time, you don't want them to experience something for the first time and learn it from someone else than what you taught them.

• 1:31:18Rich Roll?

  Right. You want to be able to shepherd them through that.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:21Rich Roll?

  I mean, you know, at some point, I mean, it's all, everything's online, like they can just spend, you know, forever.

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  They're not looking for it though.

• 1:31:28Rich Roll?

  No, but at some point, you know, it's all there and they will.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Well, I tell them certain things, like for example, I'll say, well, some people are mean, you know, and they don't like certain people because of the color of their skin or whatever. And, you know, and like they always say to me, because we live around here, well, my daughter's like, how come everyone's vanilla?

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  And she's like, or if I take her to go play soccer.

• 1:31:47Rich Roll?

  It's pretty white out here.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, really. So she was like, really? And I said, well, you know what? We live in an area where there's a lot of vanilla people. I said, sometimes you go places and there's a lot of Mexican people or a lot of Asian people, and this is just where we live. And you go places, a lot of chocolate people. So she was just like, oh, okay. And then like when we go sign up for sports, she walks up and she's like, oh, the girl. I'm like, it's okay. Yeah, to her it's vanilla. And I'm like, I didn't want to correct her. So I'm like, okay, you know, that's how she sees it. So it's just like she's starting to.

• 1:32:12Rich Roll?

  Call herself chocolate?

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like chocolate. So she's she understood. Well, I think that has changed just now because now I've heard her actually say white and black. You know, they start learning from other people, but that was like a couple of years ago, but it was so cute to me. There's just so, you know, but it but if that was me as a parent, her first thought and her first time talking about it, how I respond to it and what I say is what was going to stick with her. Yeah. So I just said, that's just so then I just she just let it go. Oh, okay. I said, it just depends. Different people live in different areas and it's fine and they're they're nice girls. It doesn't matter. You know, she's like, okay, you know, so.

• 1:32:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's a lot to shoulder.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, it is what it is. So it's like, I believe everything happens for a reason. And just like when we talked about my father and him not necessarily always being there for me, because what he was doing is like, I kind of like, okay, we'll all get the answers to this at some point, why things are the way they are and why histories happen the way that it did. And, you know, we don't always see the end of the tunnel, you know, and that's when you have that faith and knowing, then you just got to roll with it, you know, so.

• 1:33:13Rich Roll?

  What do you think, other than just his innate, you know, humanness, like, what do you think people miss or don't understand about your dad?

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Huh, miss? I don't know. In terms of because so many people.

• 1:33:27Rich Roll?

  Well, life is so much more complicated and nuanced than what you see, you know, in a documentary or in a news clip.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  He was so that person, though. Like, that's the thing about my dad, I would say. He, that's really who he he was, what you saw.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  You know, my father, what we miss and people who know him miss is just his energy in terms of just he even with his Parkinson's and he didn't he didn't talk anymore. He's just had this strong energy and this love, you know, and that's what I've seen so many people who would just come around him and all of a sudden just start crying and it's the end. They didn't even know why.

• 1:34:00Rich Roll?

  Like a guru?

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:34:02Rich Roll?

  He's like somebody, I mean, who could walk into a room and that entire room is transformed just by his presence.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  And that's just something special about that, you know, so that's that's what I, you know, just I kind of always used to hug him and just put my my face up against his and the way he smelled and his soft hair. He was just like a big old sweet baby to me. So like, that's what I miss about him. But I think that a lot of people just miss this, that, you know, you see someone that great and wonderful that they respect and looked up so much to, and now he's gone. So it's like we're watching. History unfold in front of us. It's like dang, there's never gonna be another Muhammad Ali. So it's sad to let that go.

• 1:34:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  People are just different now, you know, and people want more of that. And when I think about why my dad was so great and amazing, um, and why people are just like, wow, it's just like, he just believed in himself. He was a little boy from Louisville, Kentucky that thought he was the greatest and put his all into everything and loved himself. It's like we, I wish we could just all be more like that. We all can be like Muhammad Ali. And he stood up for what he believed in. He did what was right. These are basic things that we all put on a pedestal because we can't do it ourselves a lot of the time. So it's just like, man, you know, it just really shaped the way that I see people and I view the world, you know, and it's just like, he didn't have an entourage of people around him. He didn't go around flaunting his money, you know, or put anybody down or step on anybody

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  to, you know, make himself look better. He just was a real person, you know, a real guy that loved people.

• 1:35:30Rich Roll?

  Well, it definitely wasn't about money.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:35:32Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  He understood. I mean, everybody wants to have nice things, you know, but it wasn't like, he, um, trust me, my mom has told me stories of us being bankrupt a couple of times and him giving his money away, writing blank checks. He'd do stupid stuff like that. He was like a kid, like when it came to certain things, you know, write his, here, you know, and write a blank check. Like he was really gullible and naive when it came to, that's why I said we're so different with certain things, but he was just like a big kid. But, um, yeah, it, he, he understood that having money also, having the Rolex and the, the Rolls Royce would get people to listen. When you're talking about African American community, because people are attracted to those things, how did you get what you have? You know, I want that too. And then they would listen, so.

• 1:36:12Rich Roll?

  The ability to say what you mean, do it in a very poetic, compelling, charismatic way. Um, and just the honesty of it, you know, I think, you know, it's, it is really, the more I think about it, it really, you know, everything that he kind of did, with the exception of being the greatest boxer, uh, are things that we can do and learn from and incorporate into our own lives.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, like I said, there's, there's only gonna be one Muhammad Ali, but a lot of those things we can do. We can incorporate into our own lives. And I think that a lot of people have. I hear stories all the time. I mean, you can imagine all the Muhammad Ali stories I've heard growing up.

• 1:36:52Rich Roll?

  You must be like, oh, please.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  I get emails to my business. I'm like, that's when you asked at the very beginning, when you were like, there's gotta be some things that you love and you wish could just, yeah, the things that I wish that I could, that could just go away.

• 1:37:04Rich Roll?

  People telling you their encounter with your dad.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, stop sending me like, like, it's great. I mean, I don't want to sound mean, but I get everything that anyone creates that, you know, oh, it's for your, I just want to show you this, this painting that I drew. Okay, thank you. It's nice. I've seen a million of them. It's beautiful. And then it's like, I was, I've been trying to get this to your dad for years, but I haven't been able to. Can you help me? You know, it's like anything overflow. Yeah. And I'm just like, I can't help you. Or I want to start this line of T-shirts. Can you approve it for him? Oh, that's the thing. Like, they think I can approve. And I'm like, I don't have his name and like, I can't approve. So it just creates extra work on my end and for my folks, you know, but it's just like, that's just part of the comes with it, a small price to pay. You know, I'm just like, but that's the thing.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  That's the only thing that is annoying about being Muhammad Ali's daughter to me. It's just that kind of stuff. Like, really? So.

• 1:37:56Rich Roll?

  All right. Well, let's land this plane. I think a good way to kind of close this is just, you know, final parting words to the person who's listening out there who, who feels stuck, you know, maybe it's that guy on the airplane or, you know, somebody who's just, you know, on a path that isn't serving them. They're not eating right. They're not taking care of themselves. They're not fulfilled in their job. Like, what is the, you know, advice or the wisdom or the inspiration that you can impart to that person to maybe help them like, you know, look at things a little bit differently?

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  That's a big question.

• 1:38:28Rich Roll?

  I know. Solve that.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  I know, right? I'm like, dang.

• 1:38:31Rich Roll?

  World opens up to you.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  You know, I just really like to keep it simple. And the thing is, is that God only created one of you. And I believe God doesn't make mistakes. And if you don't believe in God, You should have to know, there's only one of you on this planet, regardless of how you got here. Okay, there's only one and you have one life to live, it's your life, nobody else's. You know, so it's just like really about figuring out, you know, what your purpose is. And that can take a whole life lifetime and just trying to be on the quest to be the best version of yourself. That's it. And that's very vague, right? It's very vague. It's like whether it's nutrition or mindset or whatever it is in your relationships, your finances or whatever, finding that balance, just being on the quest.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  So I believe in just surrounding yourself with like-minded people, people who are on that same quest as you, the tools that you need. Once you do that, you know, because like it could be overwhelming, but once you find these podcasts that you want to listen to or these books or these certain friends or these people that are eating a certain way or that, you know, exercising a certain way or whatever it is, just surround yourself with the right people and you will start to see changes happen. That's the most important thing. You don't have to do anything else other than that, but remind you, surround yourself with the people and the tools that you need and just make them a part of your daily life. Because guess what? If you keep making that other bullshit a part of your daily life, that's how your life is going to unfold that way. It's just the way that it is, right?

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  So it's like, that's pretty much it, you know, because it's like you are going to be the company you keep. You are going to be the things that you surround yourself with. You are going to be the food that you eat. So just start thinking, okay, how can I start to change these things around me, this circle around me and start making it look like the way that I want to be or the life that I want to have. And then you're going to be able to pull from those things. Even without a real plan, other than just surrounding yourself with it, things are going to start to happen because those friends are going to say certain things to you. They're going to, they're going to encourage you. They're going to, you know, challenge you. And those foods that you eat or those things, they're going to start giving you the nutrition that you need, the podcasts that you hear. One day you might just hear one person say one thing that is going to stick with you.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? And it's going to lead to something else. So it's like, that's pretty much it.

• 1:40:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Raise the vibe across the board.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, just raise that vibe, baby.

• 1:40:51Rich Roll?

  Appreciate it, girl. Awesome. Thank you.

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:40:54Rich Roll?

  So nice to talk to you. I loved it. And if you want to connect with Laila. The best way to do that, leilaali.com, right? And you're the real Laila? What's the?

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  I am the real Laila Ali. Because there were other Laila Ali's.

• 1:41:08Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:09Rich Roll?

  How is that?

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  I know, it's crazy. It's Arabic names. There was a lot of other Laila Ali's. So I had to make mine the real. Otherwise, I'd just been Laila Ali.

• 1:41:16Rich Roll?

  Well, you are the real one. So good talking to you. Thank you.

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:41:20Rich Roll?

  Come back and talk to me again sometime.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:41:21Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:41:25Rich Roll?

  So that was me and Laila. What'd you guys think? Did you enjoy that? I really enjoyed her. She was delightful. For more on Laila, please check out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com. And let her know how this one landed for you by sharing your thoughts with her directly on Twitter and Instagram at the real Laila Ali. Also, check out leilaali.com to catch up on the many things that she's involved in, her cookbook, spice blends, TV appearances, and a bunch of other stuff. If you are struggling with your diet, if you're finally committed to mastering your plate once and for all, but feel like, I don't have that much skill in the kitchen. I don't have a lot of available time. My budget is pretty tight. I cannot stress enough how much I think our Plant Power Meal Planner can help.

• 1:42:10Rich Roll?

  It was devised with one goal in mind, to make healthy and delicious eating affordable and accessible for everybody. It really is an extraordinary product. We worked very hard to create, and it's available to you for just $1.90 a week when you sign up for a year. Go to meals.richroll.com, and there you will find access to thousands of constantly updated, delicious, and easy to prepare, plant-based recipes. It's all totally customized based on your personal preferences. We have unlimited grocery lists, grocery delivery in most metropolitan areas, and an incredible team of nutrition coaches at the ready to guide you and answer all your questions seven days a week.

• 1:42:52Rich Roll?

  Again, $1.90 a week, literally the price of a cup of coffee. So to learn more and sign up, go to meals.richroll.com or click on Meal Planner on the top menu on my website. If you'd like to support the work we do here on the show, subscribe, rate and comment on the program on Apple Podcasts. That really helps new people discover the show. Tell your friends about your favorite episode, share it on social media, subscribe to my YouTube channel, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and you can support us on Patreon at richroll.com/donate. I appreciate my incredible team that helps me put on this show day in and day out. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, production, show notes, interstitial music, thank you. Blake Curtis and Margot Lubin, they're the team that videos the show and puts it up

• 1:43:36Rich Roll?

  on YouTube. They do a great job. Jessica Miranda for her graphics wizardry. Ally Rogers for her beautiful portraits. DK David Kahn makes this whole ship sail through his advertiser relationships and theme music, as always, by Analemma, which is essentially my sons, Tyler Trapper and my nephew, Harry. Thanks for the love, you guys. See you back here in a couple of days with the return of Ryan Holiday. He's coming by to talk about his latest book, Stillness is the Key. Here's a taste. Until then, believe in yourself, keep fighting for you. Peace. Plance. Namaste.

• 1:44:14Speaker 02

  What I try to do in the books is apply ancient wisdom to life in a practical way. And I think the idea of stillness, that concept of stillness, it struck me as like when you remove ego, stillness emerges. You need stillness to overcome these kinds of obstacles. So it was sort of, it's sort of the glue that went unsaid in the other books. And I just kept coming back to this idea. And when you look at really great people, whether they're athletes, or generals, or just like a wise person that you met, or your grandfather, what they all seem to have is that operating on a different plane. And what's interesting is that basically, and this is what inspired the book, is that like, basically, any and

• 1:44:59Speaker 02

  all of the ancient schools talk about that idea.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  That concept of stillness in their own way as the sort of the end goal of what we're doing.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.