The Warrior Path, Finding The Love in Competition & What it Means To Live The Plantpower Way

I have some serious sustainability concerns about doing two podcasts a week. It's just an absurd amount of work. But I'm keeping my promise. Plus, I'm having fun. So here we go with another round of Ask Me Anything — a twist on my typical long-form interview format where we speak to the issues you want addressed. This is my way of deepening my connection with the global community of people who enjoy the show. And community is the very thing that carries the potential energy to truly shift cultural paradigms across the globe, one listener at a time. Today marks one week until our new book The Plantpower Way* hits stores all across North America. It's been quite a mind blowing journey to arrive at this quite privileged place, so Julie and I check in on where things currently stand in our Herculean attempt to launch a plant-based lifestyle primer into the mainstream. Long story short? Everything is going great. To be totally transparent, today we eclipsed 4,000 books pre-sold and over 1.5 million in social reach on our Thunderclap campaign. Unbelievable! This is because of you. The support you have given us is beyond what we could have ever imagined, so please know that our appreciation runs deep. Very deep. And yet much work remains to be done. If we want to hit the NY Times Bestseller List and catapult the book — and the plant-based movement — into the cultural zeitgeist, we need to sell at least 7,000 books before May 1. We simply cannot do this alone. So far the TODAY Show hasn't called. We're getting no love from Dr. Oz, Good Morning America, John Stewart or any other major national news outlet. So when I say we are relying on you — the community — to step up and help get the word out and make this happen, I f*$ing mean it. If you are a fan of the podcast and all the content I work tirelessly to provide free each week, this is your moment of reckoning. The fact that our amazing pre-order gift bundles expire on April 28 should be enough self-serving motivation to act. But if not, consider this: despite your assumed personal proclivity for all things wellness, right now millions of people across the world are sick; stuck in a downward spiral of negative eating and lifestyle habits that promote disease and are unnecessarily killing us. 70% of Americans are obese or overweight. 1 out of every 3 Americans will die of heart disease. By 2030, 50% of us will be diabetic or pre-diabetic. Meanwhile America is exporting this lifestyle overseas with reckless abandon. And yet 80-90% of chronic lifestyle illness is preventible or reversible via simple diet and lifestyle changes. The Plantpower Way is the solution to this insanity. This not hyperbole. If my story means anything, it's that sustainable health and well being is accessible and available to us all, irrespective of age or circumstance. And I promise that this book will get you there — the most powerful, life altering gift you can give to yourself; to your loved ones; to your children; to our animal friends; and to the planet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down. Like, what am I actually going to make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build, through this program, a balanced, nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem-solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  People don't have a lot of time to get theirselves back in balance and claim their health back and start living their authentic life. And food is the first portal to this awareness.

• 1:16Rich Roll?

  That's the lovely Julie Piatt, and welcome to another Ask Me Anything episode of the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:36Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show. I'm Rich Roll. I am the captain of this ship.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  You are.

• 1:43Rich Roll?

  Who's the co-captain?

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Julie Piatt is the co-captain.

• 1:46Rich Roll?

  You are?

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Co-captain today.

• 1:48Rich Roll?

  Who is Julie Piatt?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Who is Julie Piatt? I don't know.

• 1:50Rich Roll?

  I don't know. This is the question I wake up asking myself every day.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  No, it's like, it just remind me of one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I think it's like, What About Schmidt? And it's Jack Nicholson and he-

• 2:02Rich Roll?

  About Schmidt.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Oh, about, what did I say?

• 2:05Rich Roll?

  What About Schmidt?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry.

• 2:06Rich Roll?

  You're thinking about What About Bob?

• 2:07Speaker 01

  That's right, About Schmidt.

• 2:09Rich Roll?

  Which is one of Matthew's favorite movies.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  No, so there's a scene, one of my favorite scenes, and there's this voice over, and then, you know, he says, and I keep asking myself, who is this old woman sleeping in my bed?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  And it shows his wife.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, you know, they've been married like a million years, you know? And it's like, you know, he hasn't noticed that he's aging and then he just says, you know, who is this old lady in my bed?

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  So I hope I'm not that yet. We have a few miles before that.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  You're definitely not that. I'm wondering who you are, but I'm not wondering that.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  That's good. That's a good thing.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Anyway, this is the podcast. We're back doing another Ask Me Anything episode. We've been going a couple of weeks now of doing two a week. This is like a breakneck pace.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. This is crazy. It's our... Things are coming and going and it's happening.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  All right, cool. So this week, we switched it up a little bit and I gave Julie an assignment and I said, I want you to go through all the Q and A emails that we got and you get to pick the things that we're going to talk about today. So we'll see how that goes.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  We'll see how that goes.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  How's it going over there?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  I have a few. I have a few, but then I was in yoga and I was, you know, a lot of the questions are kind of similar in some ways. So then I was starting to think like, did I answer this before? Did we say this? But no, we have some new ones. So, so should I just jump right in?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, go for it.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Okay, awesome. So the first question, it's kind of a long question. And again, it's from a young person. So I'm going to say, I kind of jump in the middle of this question. It is from, uh-oh, don't tell me, I don't have his name. That's not good.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  And you're fired.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  I'm fired already. I don't have his name.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  All right, just read the question.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  I'll read it. "I'm a 20-year-old college student attending Baylor University in Texas. My family is very ill with preventable illnesses like dangerously high blood pressure, obesity, and diabetes. They deny it has anything to do with their food, but it's not just my family that seems to have closed eyes. My mother's doctor, when speaking to her about a brain tumor she recently had removed, told her that her refusal to eat vegetables has absolutely nothing to do with her declining state of health." It's kind of similar, right? I do my best not to overstep boundaries and step on toes, but it's so hard to do when I just feel like getting on my knees and begging them all to wake up. Oh, I'm sorry.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  My family is dying and many relatives that are still alive wouldn't be if not for the reliance on countless pills and shots every day. Whenever I say much about the benefits of eating plant-based or exercising, I'm instantly shut down as the weird kid who's going through a phase. I've been told over and over not to expect people to change once they get older. Okay. So...

• 5:08Speaker 02

  I mean, where to even begin with that?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Where to begin with that?

• 5:11Speaker 02

  This is the $64 question. This question is at the heart of everything, right? It brings up everything. It brings up, you know, our emotional, you know, landscape around food choices. It's, you know, the psychology of the child-parent relationship. It's, you know, it's tricky.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  It's everything. I found her name, by the way. And Lexi, I don't know if you're a male or a female. Lexi Smith. So Lexi, thank you so much for your email. And yeah, I mean, where to begin? Where to begin? Where to begin? It's that thing, you know? You've obviously been placed by, you know, by the creation into the middle of a community that is completely oriented in a completely different way, and that community is your family. And it's very, very hard for those of us who can see a better way and see, you know, that our loved ones are killing themselves and hurting themselves, yet they are not able to take the assistance or take the guidance or take your hand.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  So again, I would say that, you know, your biggest power is in neutrality, neutral, loving compassion. So understand that they just, they can't. They don't have the frequency to see and experience what you're experiencing. So the only place you can really go to is within yourself and continue to, you know, be a living example, but find a way to be kind and compassionate and sort of allow them to...

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Acclimate to what you're presenting to them.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, sort of part and parcel with that is to, that doesn't mean that you have to give up, you know, I just think it's about your relationship to results. Because basically, the fact that they're not responding the way that you want them to is causing frustration and resentment and sadness and a whole battery of like negative feelings in you and probably in them as well. So maybe, you know, approach the opportunity from a different place. You can continue to show up with, hey, here's a beautiful, you know, plant-based meal that I brought to the family, you know, why don't you try this? But just if they don't want it, or whatever, you just be cool with that. Like, don't have an expectation that they're gonna bite, but you can keep showing up with

• 7:32Speaker 02

  it and keep showing up with it. Like, that's similar to the way that we've kind of gotten our kids onto healthier eating patterns by just showing up with the healthy foods all the time. And not creating hardness around it, but like, hey, here's what's here, here's what's here, just kind of relentlessly doing that, but doing it with, with grace and love and really being divorced about whether they like it, or say no to it, or decline it, or whatever happens.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's a big challenge, because really, for you to be very, very effective, you have to, well, your greatest power is to find a space where you, you love them even when they're eating that huge steak. Or you love your family even when they're taking the pharmaceutical pills. You have to, you have to be loving them while they're in their experience. And this is, it's actually a deep experience that Rich and I had, and it was, you know, within our relationship, and, you know, Rich writes that, you know, in the early days, you could draw a line down the refrigerator and you could see the foods I was eating and the foods he was eating. And for many, many years, I knew that he was poisoning himself, and that he was not

• 8:40Speaker 01

  in touch with, with his authentic heart, and he was not living his potential. And he was suffering in many ways, you know, through his, you know, kind of different densities and troubles he was having, struggles. And he would not take my hand. He would not make the shift. And, I mean, this was a long period of time, like, it was like, seven-year period or something. It took me a long time to get it. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating, maybe it was like, five. But, you know, everybody else knew how right I was, okay? So, looking at your email, it's like you're proposing very logical, healthy things. So, you're not, it's not that you don't have wisdom, but the shift for me was when I really started to look at it from a more expanded perspective.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  And that is that, you know, everybody is an emanation of God, or an emanation of creation. And I got to a place in my awareness where I realized that I was loving Rich from a very human place of expectation of, you know, which is in every human relationship, he was loving me the same way too, you know? It was like, if you do this, then we're in a relationship and that's how, you know, you do X and I do Y, and that means we're okay with each other. Well, I started to look at divine, you know, divine love. And so divine love is like the sun, and it shines on everybody, you know? It doesn't discriminate. And so who was I to be judging, having judgment at him,

• 10:06Speaker 01

  that he was drinking a venti Starbucks with three ad shots in it? Who was I to really judge that? And when I finally got that, and I brought that into our lives and my energy, he could feel this very profound shift. And suddenly, I was out of his space. And that was the catalyst that began the birth of Ultraman, the birth of who he became. It was when I stopped needing him to be other than he was. Now, did that mean that I ate fast food with him? No, never. Did that mean that I did, you know, I was drinking a venti coffee with three ad shots? No, never. So, I still did my thing.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  I still healed the cyst in my neck, and I lived as an example to him and those around me. And then, when I actually released him to his own life in respect and love, that is when his life catalyzed this transformation.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it was powerful. And I think what happened to me is that when I could sense that shift, and it wasn't a spoken thing. It's not like she announced to me that she was relinquishing this desire. Like, she basically made this commitment, and I could sense the energy shift. And what that did was, suddenly, with that pressure released, there's a vacuum, and something has to fill that void, right? So what filled that? Well, suddenly, it was this dawning realization that, actually, this is on me now. And so it's not about, like, oh, I gotta change because somebody wants me to change. It made me really look at myself and say, well, what do I want? Like, what am I doing? Is

• 11:50Speaker 02

  this really what I want to be doing? And I never really pondered that. I was more in a defensive mode all the time. And when I didn't need to be defensive anymore, I think that allowed me to kind of look at the situation from a different perspective. And I think that was the beginning of starting to walk in a new trajectory.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  And I mean, with Rich and I, we're soul partners, so it's a little different relationship than you inside your family. And I would also just add to you that, it's not that common that our families change because of a sibling, because of a family member. I mean, sometimes, families even push against that harder. You know what I mean? Like, you may be telling them all this stuff, and then in another year, they may see a movie over at a friend's house, and then they might stop drinking soda. And you'll be going like, what are you? I've been telling you that for like, two years, and you never listen to me. Because for some reason, your own family can't recognize the wisdom that is within you. Like, it's just not set up like that. And then the final thing that I would

• 12:56Speaker 01

  add to is that because you're in your twenties, you're in this beautiful, beautiful altruistic, fresh state. And I don't know you personally, but I know from me being 20, and also having a 20-year-old son. You know, you can be, you know, 20 is a very passionate, very sort of politically, you know, it's a very black and white. It can be very, very passionate and very like, well, this is the way it's supposed to be. And as you age and you get, you know, you get more experience, you start to learn that, no, the world is really pretty gray in a lot of areas. And so, you know, I applaud you and I honor you and I'm happy for you that you have this awareness. And also, you can relax a little bit with it and it's

• 13:41Speaker 01

  gonna be okay.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, the hard willfulness is not gonna, is not going to, you know, catalyze the result that you're looking for. So relax and take a different approach. And that approach starts with, like we said to Viva, you know, stand in the light and, you know, be strong in your convictions, but that doesn't mean proselytizing or forcing yourself on others or preaching.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  And also, from a spiritual standpoint, one more thing, from a spiritual standpoint, you know, we incarnate into families and it doesn't mean that you're on the same timeline as everyone in your family. And that's, can be very painful because, you know, I think, you know, we want all of our family members to come along with us. But that's just not the truth of what's happening. So you have to allow them their own life experience. It's their life. It's their choice.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, I mean, in our relationship dynamic, I mean, we're, we're a married couple. So it was sort of this, you know, even-handed, you know, kind of on par type situation. But when you're dealing with a parent and a child, there's a different power dynamic there. So suddenly, when the child reaches 20, they have some experience in the world. And like you said, some, some kind of, sometimes that comes in the form of something idealistic or altruistic. The parent's like, you know, I don't have anything to learn from my kid. So it becomes harder. I think it's harder to penetrate that.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  To break that, yep.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  So, anyway.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  But anyway, good work. I'm glad you're there. I'm glad you're on the planet. So, thank you.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Let's pick a new one.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Let's pick a new one. Okay.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  What do you got?

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Um, have, I wonder, I think you, I seriously thought you answered this before. Okay, I'm gonna read this one. Okay, so this is from Dylan. Hi Dylan. Oh wait, sorry, did I mess it up again? No, Dylan, it's yours. Okay. So it says, "How do you balance a competitive fire and having a heart of love and compassion? At 42, I am not interested anymore in material things. I want to be love. I just do not know how to balance the two. Just thought you might have some interesting feedback."

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Hmm. Well, I'm trying to understand. Like, he's saying balance the competitive fire, but it sounds like he doesn't have a competitive fire.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  No, let me know, he does actually. I'll go back. Let me give you some more history on it. Okay. So it says, "Racing," and let me see. "I have a heavy racing season with a 50K trail run, racing the Boston Marathon, then five days later, the Indiana Trail 100 capped off with the I Am Maryland." So yeah, he has a lot.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  "At the end of the year, an earlier podcast with Preston Smiles brought me even closer to the fact that I need love to be the guiding factor in my life." That's beautiful. "This paired with you and Julie's incredible guidance in my life and me putting better reading and information into my brain has led me to a place where competition is hard to embrace. I used to thrive on it. I used anger and comparisons to others as fuel to drive me. It was all about ego and shallow trinkets. As I heal myself, this is who I do not want to be. This weekend, I raced the very challenging Mountain Mist 50K in Huntsville, Alabama."

• 16:57Speaker 02

  All right. Okay, I got it. So, basically, there are different kinds of competitiveness, right? And there are different motivations for competitiveness. You can be competitive because, you know, you have this drive to win and be the best, and that can be coming from a place of ego. You can be coming from a place of anger and wanting to make sure that you are better than somebody else, or that somebody else doesn't win. You know, like, there are different, it's like the emotion behind it is really the crucial line of inquiry, not the competitiveness itself. I mean, the other form of competitiveness, and a healthier version, would be trying to be the best version of yourself, right?

• 17:42Speaker 02

  Like, being competitive with yourself versus comparisons with the outside world.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Would you agree with that? So that's the starting point, right? Like, what is the derivation of this competitiveness? And tracing that back down to, you know, your primary emotional drivers. You know, is it insecurity? Is it, um, is it pride? Is it anger? Is it ego? Is it, you know, what, what is behind all of that? And I'm not saying it's an unhealthy motivation. You know, competition can be a good thing. You know, I think competition propels you to, you know, unlock yourself and achieve certain things that lead to, um, you know, good emotions like self-esteem, et cetera. So I don't, I'm not against competitiveness and I'm a very innately competitive person myself, but I think my competitiveness has always been driven not, um, not to like beat other people.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  It's always been like, I'm just trying to like achieve my personal potential.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  You know, but I think that, that that has evolved as well. And like, and all the travel that I'm doing and the emails that come in and all that kind of stuff, like a consistent question is always, when's your next race? What are you training for? And I always get like, I feel weird because it's like, I'm not racing right now, you know? And then I feel like I should be, or there's an expectation that I need to be in order to continue to be relevant or what have you in being a voice of this movement. But my motivations have shifted and my own sort of perspective on competitiveness has changed, right? So, um, you know, when I was training for Ultraman in 2009, I was very, very competitive and driven, competitive mostly with myself. It didn't have anything to do with anybody else, but I really needed to like, see what

• 19:25Speaker 02

  I was capable of. Like, I was incredibly motivated to make sure that when I raced, I was, you know, I could finish a race and say, I gave that everything and this is what I got, right? I needed to know that for myself. So I was obsessed with, you know, it wasn't about a medal or anything like, like the trinket, like I've never cared about that kind of stuff, but like I would obsess on my power meter results and graphs and where is my heart rate and what's going on and all of that. And that was an interesting period of time and I learned a lot about myself and I wouldn't change it for a million, for a million dollars. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it for anything, but. Now, you know, life is different and my motivations are different. And my motivation is more to try to figure out ways to help people and spread this message.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  And, and life has gotten very busy with a lot of amazing opportunities that are a result of doing this work. And, and so I'm presented with really cool things to do with my life that were not part of our life, you know, a couple of years ago. And, and I'm embracing that. And I don't want to feel guilty because I'm not racing, but I just don't have enough hours to do all of it. And so what I'm getting to in a very long-winded way is something that you have said to me, which is, you need to keep training. This is part of who you are. This cannot be something that is in the past, but you've got to do it for different reasons. You've got to find a love in it. You've got to do it for the love. And, and that's been a challenge to try to step into a different perspective on what

• 20:54Speaker 02

  for me has always been inherently, you know, something that is about competition.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  So, I don't know how this is answering his question, but I think that-

• 21:04Speaker 01

  No, he just asked for some feedback. I mean, I think he's experiencing some of the same things. And, you know, then he says that, you know, he was racing, uh, the mountain missed 50K and his watch was not working. So when he hit the halfway mark, he feeling great, seven minutes slow, he melted down. When he saw that he was seven minutes slow, he melted down. And then he says, "I was angry and I wanted to drop. I was worried about shallow things, then it hit me." This is about the journey. I allowed, um, no, I slowed down. I was encouraging other runners that passed me, which is beautiful. And he finished, but then he was just kind of confused by all of it. So he's kind of, I think he's in, you know, I think you're in a process of figuring out. It's like you know competition and now you're making a transition into, you know, maybe

• 21:48Speaker 01

  more of a love of racing or more of like a, you know, like encouraging your fellow runners on the trail. And that's one of the beautiful things about Ultraman is it's, you know, it's got this whole Ohana-like family vibe and the, the crews help other racers. Like, everybody helps everybody, which is really incredible.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what makes it amazing and a lot of ultra, most ultra races are like that.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Are like that.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  It's very much, it's very much a community kind of, you know. Supportive community perspective on on sport, which I think is really cool. And I think it fosters this kind of evolution and mentality that, um, yeah, you want to go out and you want to, you want to, you know, have a great race and have a great experience. But ultimately, what's important is is enjoying it and being part of the community.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Right?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  And in some way, giving back to that community. So by encouraging the other runners and participating in a, in a way that transcends whatever your garment says, I think is where you find, um, you know, the true meaning that will carry with you for the rest of your life.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Right. Well, and I also think, I think there's another transcendental place that's even beyond that level of racing, because when you think about, you know, the, the Mayan runners or, you know, the, you know, the guys from Born to Run, like, they don't, they don't use meters and they're not checking their, you know, verticals.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  And the Tarahumara, like, I was in Mexico City and I got to spend time with Silvio, who's one of the most amazing human beings I've ever met, one of the true Tarahumara champions. And they just don't, they don't look at running or competition in even the remotely the same way that the Western world does. Yeah, they're not wearing heart rate monitors and garments, they're not even wearing shoes, right? And so they just go out and do it for the love. And they'll show up and do it, do a race. It's certainly not about a trinket. They're doing it because this is what their community does and this is what they love to do. They don't even track time the way that we do. And it was interesting, when I was there, um, it was a Runner's World kind of sponsored

• 23:46Speaker 02

  weekend and event, and I was talking to one of the journalists for Runner's World, and he had recently done a cover story for that magazine on Silvio. And he was saying that when he was talking to him and asking him questions in the interview, he said, oh, something like, oh, you remember, you know, five years ago when you ran this race and you won it, or something like that. And, and apparently, uh, it's Silvino, not Silvio, Silvino, uh, looked at him.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Sort of befuddled or confused, like he didn't really understand the question. And it dawned on this journalist that, that they don't, they don't keep track of time in the same way that we do. Like, they don't wear watches.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  They're just in the now.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  The idea of, like, the idea of five years is a meaningless concept. Like, they don't, this is what I was told. This is, that they don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff. So, that's, you know, it's almost impossible for us to even, like, conceptualize what that would be like, to not track the years. Let alone not track the miles, or the hours, or the pace, or whatever these watches are. You know, this whole quantified self-movement has become so ingrained into, not just the multisport world, but, but our culture. You know, how, we're always sort of checking where we're at. And I think there's a lot of value in that. It's, it's great to have, you know, improved self-knowledge about, you know, how your body functions, whether it's your blood work, or how your heart is beating.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  These are all good things, and they're useful tools. But, but I think we get overly caught up in them, and we lose sight of what's truly important.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  And you don't need any of that just to run.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  If you're spending all day quantifying yourself, then you're not actually, you're not living your life. Well, just, you know, whatever, you know, whether it's running or something else. So, it's about, you know, kind of a bigger-picture view. And it sounds like Dylan is starting to understand this, and I would say that that's a good thing, you know? And I think that that's a, a quality that I would foster and fertilize, and hopefully will lead you into a new place, and give you maybe a healthier perspective on, on the world of multisport, or your running, and, and all of that, and make it more enjoyable, and, and also more sustainable within your life. And I think that's, you know, and me saying it, it's like, I need to hear that for myself, too.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yes, that's what's so beautiful about it.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Because I think part of my, I think, well, I think what, what happens, what's, what's happened to me is, my competitiveness with myself has prevented me from continuing to race throughout this period of time, because I tell myself, like, I don't want to show up at a race unless I'm 110% and ready to go. You know, I don't want to just be a middle of the pack guy. But how much of that is my ego? You know, maybe my life would be better and I would be enjoying it more if I was just going to all these races all the time and had completely released the idea that I need to perform at a certain level because, you know, I don't have the bandwidth to train like I did, you know, a couple of years ago.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. That's true.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  So it's something for me to think about. So Dylan, thank you for raising that. And I will ponder that.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Dylan, I think you're, yeah, you're on the right track. Anyway, you're already in the discovery of it and that's amazing to witness. And it is really the energy. So it doesn't mean, it's kind of like the same thing in spiritual circles. Like, you know, people go, well, if I'm detached, then that means I just sit in my room and I don't do anything. But that's not, that's not it. It means that you're in the world and you're moving, but it's the energy with which you're in the world. So the energy with which you're racing. So as you start to convert that, it doesn't mean that you can't be competitive. You can be competitive, but the energy that you're being competitive with is different. So it comes more from love or more maybe just a test for yourself, like how far can I push myself?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  So it's between you and you, just like spirituality is between you and you. It has nothing to do with anybody else. So anyway, it's exciting. Keep us posted. You're amazing. You're doing incredible things.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Right. So he just ran Boston yesterday. So he's getting ready for the next one.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  All right, queue it up. What's next?

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Okay, so the next one. I swear to God, I think I did this one. It's Chris Perry.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  All right.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  But we may have read this one before. We'll try it. "My current job is something that is no longer in alignment with my belief system, but it is the main source of income, medical benefits, and retirement planning for myself and my family. I am miserable at this current place and no longer want to be there. I have an opportunity to do a few other things that are jobs that resonate with where I'd like to go. And I realize..." The if you take a leap of faith, the universe will catch you concept. I really feel that I am there, but it is very scary. Any advice on how to know when this is right time? My fear is not being able to provide for my family, but I am visualizing being in a new place. Thanks, Chris, for your.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's another $64 question, right?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  You know, Casey Neistat, who I've had on the podcast, he tells a story that's very similar, which is, you know, this is a guy who is living in a trailer and washing dishes and, you know, basically on food stamps and, and, you know, had a child when he was 17 years old and on a lark moved to New York with no money and was able to get a pretty good, high paying job working in Tom Sacks's studio, who's a very well-recognized artist in New York City.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  And it was a good job and he's providing for, you know, a baby when he's essentially still a teenager. And he was making little films for Tom. And then he booked his first directing gig, directing a commercial. It was just, you know, some stupid commercial or whatever, but he, he made like $10,000, which in 19, whatever it was, 90, I don't know what year it was, it was a while back. I mean, is it okay amount of money for a young person? But certainly you're not going to sail off into the sunset with that. And he, he decided to quit his job and then he immediately leased

• 29:59Speaker 02

  the studio space that has become his office, which was like, took up most of that paycheck with the first and last month and security deposit and all of that, which is kind of insane without having any other gig.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  You know, and having a baby. And, you know, he was able to basically, you know, blast through whatever fear barriers and, and believe that he was going to be able to figure out a way to hustle and make it work. And now he's, you know, this amazing filmmaking talent with, you know, millions of YouTube views and all that kind of stuff. But that was kind of an insane decision. And so people, you know, want to emulate that and say to him, like, should I do that? Or I'm in a similar situation. And he's always like, I'm not recommending that you do that. Like, it didn't make logical sense. He just was compelled to make that decision. Right? And whether it was fueled by pain or fueled by some deep, you know,

• 30:54Speaker 02

  intangible knowingness that that was the direction that he needed to go in? Who knows? But, you know, he made that, he made that leap and the universe conspired to support him. And that's not to say that, you know, people out there should just act irresponsibly. Like, I think it's not okay to just say, yeah, make, you know, do it, man. Go for it. Like, there are real life considerations that everybody has to take into account. You know, and I was terrified when I left my big law firm job and didn't know what I was gonna do next. And I was terrified when I ultimately, uh, when Finding Ultra came out and I completely shuttered practicing law, you know, because I'd been a solo practitioner after that for, for a number of years. Those are scary moments, you know?

• 31:35Speaker 02

  And those were moments where I took a leap of faith and I didn't know, you know, if the net was gonna be there or what that net was gonna look like or where I was gonna make my next dollar. Like, I just didn't and there was no business plan. But I had a deep knowingness and a sense of purpose and faith that, that it was the direction that I had to take. And I was in pain, you know? Pain is, as I always say, has always been my great motivator. So I think you have to, you know, what's the takeaway from that? Well, I think you have to really gut check, you know? Like, is, is, you know, are you living, you know, a life you don't want to be living? How important is, is it to you to be doing something else?

• 32:16Speaker 02

  And are there things that you can responsibly be doing while you're still employed that you can bring into your life that can start to create the foundation for the life you want to live, that you can step into? So you can do it more gradually or more kind of fiscally, you know, responsibly? And to the extent that that's not possible and you are faced with that decision, only you can make that decision. And it's really, you know, it's a test of faith. And I think that, you know, it's really a matter of really doing an inventory on what it is that you want to be doing here on this planet in this short time and making that list, trying to control the things that you can control. And to the extent that there

• 32:59Speaker 02

  are things on that list that you can't, that's where the faith comes in.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that, you know, yeah, that's all, that's all very true and very wise. I mean, in our case, you know, we certainly didn't, we didn't have a gradual, like, we didn't have a gradual move.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  No, we didn't.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  That's how we did. So, all we can do is share what we did. Of course, we aren't saying that that, this is what everybody should do. And, you know, I just can say very honestly that, you know, the net wasn't there for us for quite a long time. And I would, with all, you know, all my spiritual faith and everything, which basically is the core reason that I was able to hold the space for my family to go through this. Without my connection to spirituality or faith, we would not have made it. We would not have been able to do it. There's just, it's, it would have been impossibility, completely. But I would say that, you know, when we, when we jumped and we were like, "The net will catch you."

• 34:00Speaker 02

  And then we're like, "Okay."

• 34:01Speaker 01

  I think we bounced on the pavement about maybe 10 times first.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  We could really use that net right now, right about now.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  That freaking net could come, you know. So, but, you know, people, I mean, listen, my, my friends who've known us for years and, you know, I have one particular friend of mine, Tammy, who's, you know, I've known since college. And, you know, she's a very, a very safe person. And she's, you know, caught in a job cycle of a job that she doesn't like, that's not fulfilling her. She's pretty good at it. So, you know, it's okay. But, you know, she's always talking to me about, well, You know, in the beginning, it would be when I was making the shift, it would be, "Well, you're luckier than I am," or you're like somehow that I was more privileged than another person, which is a complete illusion, because we all have the exact same numbers, you know, hours in a day. We all have the same opportunity to, you know, to find ourselves

• 34:51Speaker 01

  and go out and create the life that we were meant to live. But now, you know, as she sees us, she's just absolutely in awe. I mean, she's completely in awe and just so much inspiration seeing what we went through, because she knew the up-close, you know, not pretty moments, which, you know, most people do not know yet. So it's not that like catchphrase, like, "If you take the leap, the universe will catch you." It doesn't always work like that exactly, you know, in the timing. And I remember one time, you know, begging Rich, like, "You gotta let go of law so that we can swim to the other shore." And it's like, I was like,

• 35:34Speaker 01

  "You gotta let go," and you let, and so you let go, and then we were like, "Shit."

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  There's no boat. And it was for quite a while. But I would say that, I mean, judging from your email, you are saying that you are in a career that is not, that you're not enjoying, right? And then I would say to you from this perspective, if you only had four months left to live, what would you be doing? And that's just one of my go-tos, and it's a go-to that I apply, you know, to my children and to Rich and to, you know, everybody in my world. Because let's get really real about why we're here, and time is precious, and human life is a, it's a privilege, it's a divine privilege. And so this planet has been mired in fear programs that has us all turned, worshiping the Lord

• 36:25Speaker 01

  of greed, which is the money system. And, you know, there was even a time in Rich and my transformation when we were, things were starting to catch, and we could see that this life was beginning to set up. And yet, our financial world was completely in disarray. I mean, it was, it was a mess, and, you know, really bad. And... We would, I realized at one point in the journey that we were judging ourselves. We were saying, okay, we're going to be spiritual warriors and we're going to risk everything and we're going to go out, you know, naked and risk basically annihilation. And then we're going to judge ourselves based on the old paradigm rules, like the credit score and the bank balance.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  And then I was just like, this is insanity because you can't make the transformation, you know, you can't serve two masters. You can't serve greed and then say that you're on a spiritual path to discover your authentic self. Now, I'm not saying that that means you don't, you can't have money. Yeah, you can have money. You can have lots of money, probably more money than you did before you went through the transformation. But again, it's the energy behind it. It's, you're free of the need of it. You don't need it. So you're doing what you love and then more sort of it starts to catch and it's sort of like an energetic abundance thing. So I can say that life isn't easy. I can say that I believe in you.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  I can say to trust yourself and I can say try to find gentler ways and ask that the transformation come with grace. Ask for grace, ask for ease, but understand that true transformation is not for the weak-hearted.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it goes back to the warrior path. So I think I would, I would cap that off by saying, while you're pondering all of this, what are the things that you can be doing right now that you can build into your life that would, again, you know, brick by brick, start to create, you know, a foundation for a new way of living. And so it doesn't have to involve quitting your job immediately. Like, how can you involve yourself in the things that you're passionate about during your free time, you know? And I think we all have more free time. Like, we just say, oh, we're so busy, I don't have any free time. Well, it's just a matter of priorities. So if this new life or, you know, this passion that's leading in you into a new direction

• 38:44Speaker 02

  has certain outlets, what, what, what, what of those outlets are available to you now that you can bring into your life without completely disrupting it, you know, overnight? And then start to, you know, move in that direction slowly. And I think that You know, the more you connect with yourself and the more you, um, you know, invest in practices like mindfulness and meditation, then you're able to more clearly identify these signals and have a greater chance of trusting your instincts and making the leap at the time that's best for you to do so.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  That's, that's very beautiful. Well said. And one more thing, Chris, before we move on. If you haven't read Oneness by Rasha, pick up a copy. It'll be your friend.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Well, we'll put a link to that book in the show notes. Let's do one more.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  One more? Only one more?

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Okay. Um, so, uh, okay. This is from Anne Marie Sutherland. What to do when your spouse doesn't agree that you should run marathons and 50K races due to potential health risks? I don't get it. There's worse things in life, right?

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  I would say, yes, Anne Marie, there are.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  I disagree with you.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Not worse things, but yeah, having never run one.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  I mean, how, let's see. How do we break this down? I mean, so it's a married couple.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm assuming.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  They're together.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  A spouse, yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Right, spouse. So, um, you know, I, I think that, that ineffective, healthy, uh, relationship involves supporting each other in each other's passions. And, you know, you're not interested in running ultras. It's not something that you necessarily understand.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Or have any kind of like grasp on, you know, what would compel me to do that. And you have plenty of things that you like to do, like wake up at four o'clock in the morning and play the sitar that I'm never gonna do. And I don't understand that, but that brings you joy.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  That is very dangerous, too.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Like, I'm like, what is going on?

• 40:54Speaker 01

  I could like, I could jump dimensions and never come back.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, it's like Rave Shankar.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Explode into a puff of green smoke.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  You know, like, what's happening in the, in the house. Uh, yeah, and I come home and there's a man in our house teaching you how to play this, this ancient Indian instrument. And that's cool. Like, and I'm, I support you in doing that. I don't have to understand it. Um, the difference is that there's the, oh, this is a health risk, right, aspect to it. Um, and I think that, you know, it's a, it's a... It's about boundaries and mutual respect for each other. And if it's important enough to you and you enjoy it enough, then you can express to your spouse like, "Listen, this is something that I really feel strongly about doing. I have a passion for it and I need you to just have my back, you know, and I'll have your back on the thing that you're doing that maybe I don't understand or don't agree with."

• 41:47Speaker 02

  You know, I think it gets tricky with, I mean, it sounds like there's some, "Well, you know, these extreme distances are harming you. It's harming your health and I'm concerned for you." Is that truly the concern? Or is there something behind that that maybe is worth looking into and exploring?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also I think that, you know, within relationships, again, it brings us back, gives us the opportunity to look at, you know, how are we relating to each other? And, you know, are we relating to each other in just sort of a business arrangement? Like, you know, you agreed to do, you agreed to be this type of person and I agreed to be that type of person and that's why we're together? Or are you guys in for the transformation of a relationship, which has many different colors and many different, you know, states? And it's like, you know, if you're in this relationship, then within that relationship comes transformation and it comes, you know, certain, you know, certain activities and certain desires of individuals that might not be your choice, might not be, it also might not be the safe thing. And I mean, Rich and I had a very profound,

• 42:47Speaker 01

  very, very profound moment in our journey. And it was actually, you know, when we were still very financially dismantled and, you know, not much was making sense. But Rich went on a training ride and he actually crashed on his face. And I got a call from a couple sweet ladies that had picked him up off the trail. And, you know, went up to the Ojai Hospital and walked in and saw him, you know, with, you know, double-digit stitches in his face. And he was just, he was trashed. And it hit me to the core. It shook me to the core because it felt like even more than a crash. It felt like we had been delivered in this new place. And I remember you were, I had you soaking in the bathtub and we have this amazing

• 43:32Speaker 01

  master bedroom where the bathtub is actually right in the bedroom because I like to take baths a lot and I want to talk to Rich a lot. So I just had it put in the middle of the bedroom with no walls. So

• 43:43Speaker 02

  That was the whole thing. Like Julie wants to have a bathtub in our bedroom.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  So that's what we have.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  That's what we have. So Rich is in the bathtub and he's just, I mean, he's unrecognizable. And it was so interesting because actually the girls were talking about, Jaya was talking to me about when she saw you after the crash and how it affected her and how, you know, she was afraid to kiss you. And just recently, I actually haven't told you this, I'm just remembering this right now, but

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Jaya or Mathis?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Jaya.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Because Mathis came to the hospital.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  No, they both did.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  I don't remember.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you were. So anyway, so I was giving him, you know, some comfrey, comfrey drops that had been recommended by a healer that we called immediately after the hospital. And, you know, I just looked at him and, you know, he looked at me and it was bad. He, he had crashed badly, but gratefully, his head was fine and, you know, all the insides and all that was seemingly fine.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Although I still have no feeling in my lower lip.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, you have some, some residue from that.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  I have all this scar tissue on the inside of it. It's all swollen on the inside still, like many, many years later.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  On your mouth and stuff. Yeah, but remember I asked you that day, you know, you looked at me and you said, what are you thinking? And I said, I'm thinking English patient because you literally were unrecognizable. And then I said to you, so if this had been your exit point, is this what you want to do with your life? And you said, yes. And I said, okay, I'm in. Because how can I, how can I tell him that he can't do that because it's dangerous? I don't have that right. In my, in my awareness, I don't have that right. And so I have to support him. Maybe it comes from me being, you know, married, a child of a, of a bush pilot and a hunter and fisherman. He went off for, you know,

• 45:28Speaker 01

  three weeks, four times a year and would just sleep on glaciers and fly his bush plane around and, you know, crash it and bend the propeller back. And, and, you know, my mom always let him go. Like she never tried to stop him from doing what he loved to do. And she doesn't, never did any of those things. So I think it's a, it's an opportunity for communication and of course, within the sport.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  You need to be as diligent as you can, you know, try to ride safe, try to ride with an ID tag, you know, try to-

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Or running, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there are certain things you can do to make your spouse, you know, put them at ease a little bit, like get your blood tested, go to the cardiologist, like make sure that you're on top of these certain things that are causing consternation in your partner, and to the extent that those are being attended to, that might alleviate some of the stress. And I just wanted to say that, you know, there's no, in the way that there is no stasis in your life, like you're either growing or you're regressing, there's no stasis in a relationship. A relationship is a dynamic enterprise. And so when you, we have this notion, this sort of Disney, you know, fueled idea that like, oh, you get married and then it's this static thing, and you are who you

• 46:43Speaker 02

  are, and I am who I am, and this is what our relationship is, it's this thing right here. But that's a complete illusion, you know, it's changing from moment to moment. And, you know, if you're with somebody for a long period of time, you know, people, you know, maybe at their core, they don't change, but there are aspects, you know, of each other that, that of course are changing all the time. And it's never going to be the same. And so, the idea is, you know, are you in, are you in for, are you in for all of that? Because it's a roller coaster, like, and are you willing to, basically, you know, be an example of what you just shared, which is, like, being somebody who says, I'm not going to interfere with this person's, you know, passions, I'm here to support that,

• 47:28Speaker 02

  and that's a two-way street. Or is it, oh, this is not the person that I got married to, like, I didn't, I didn't, you know, this was not the bargain that I was making, you know, I thought you were this person, and now you've become this person. And then, is that, does that become an incompatibility issue?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  I can't answer that for you. Sometimes it does become that way. Sometimes in a relationship, somebody grows and the other person refuses to grow until they're no longer, you know, on the same playing field, and the relationship doesn't work anymore.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Sure, and that's okay, too.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  And that's okay, you know, that's not a tragedy.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  That's like, life.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  That's a completion of a relationship.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  That's all it is. So, but, um, yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I think the big opportunity is really communication. And I mean, at least with Rich and with me, that seems to be the, you know, the great space of power in our relationship is the ability to communicate, both on and off the podcast. No, I'm kidding.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Only when we're doing the podcast, not off the podcast.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Only on the podcast.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  We don't talk after the podcast.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  All right, cool. We gotta, we gotta lock it down. So, thanks so much, you guys. Those are great questions.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Thank you for the questions.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And if life doesn't get too crazy, I would like to just keep doing this. So if you guys are enjoying it, let us know in the comments section on the episode page for this episode, or leave us a note, a comment on iTunes and let us know what you think. I'm always open to feedback. How can we make the show better? What are we not doing that we could be doing better? Who would you like to see me interview, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? And what else? I think that's it. Let's close it down. So what else can I tell you? Future Q and A podcast, please send your questions to [email protected] and we'll keep it up. And that's it for all the information, education products, tools,

• 49:25Speaker 02

  resources and inspiration you need to take your health, wellness, fitness and self-actualization to the next level. The next level, Julie. Where are you gonna go?

• 49:34Speaker 01

  You're gonna go to richroll.com. That's where I'm going.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  And where are we, where are we gonna go if we wanna do these online courses that we've created?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  We're gonna go to mindbodygreen.com.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  That's right. That's exactly where we're gonna go. What kind of, what kind of courses can you find there?

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Well, there's one that's called The Art of Living with Purpose, which is your course where you share all your inspiration and all of your tools for goal-setting and actualizing your best, most authentic self. And for the ultimate in plant-based cooking and nutrition information, Rich and I did a course there called The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  That's right. That's what it's called. It's a good little companion piece to our new book.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  It's cool.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Lots of stuff in there.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Check that out, you guys. Mindbodygreen.com. You can find it right there on, or just click Video Courses. I think it's right there at the top of the page. So. All right. Consider giving us a review on iTunes. Pick up the free app if you want to listen to some of the older episodes because iTunes only leaves the most recent 50 up there. Continue to support the show. Thank you for using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. We didn't do any of that prefatory stuff. So we appreciate that very much. It really helps us out a lot. And keep spreading the good message on social media and thunderclap and all that good stuff. And we will see you in a couple of days.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  See you in a couple of days.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  You want to take us out?

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Peace. Plants.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Namaste.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  Trying to make sense of everything in love.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  Trying to sort it all out in my mind.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  Love is not a problem to be solved.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  I only cry, cry.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Used to be a proof of what's my thing.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  What you think of me was all that seemed me.

• 52:18Speaker 03

  Important in the achievement of a dream.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  In your blue eyes.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  Now I see the truths inside of me

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Fun to love myself has gone maybe

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Not for what I thought you wanted

• 53:13Speaker 03

  For me to be

• 53:24Speaker 03

  My heart beats open wide My heart beats open wide My heart beats open wide My heart beats open wide

• 54:03Speaker 03

  Trying to make sense of everything in life

• 54:14Speaker 03

  Trying to sort it all out in my mind

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Love is not a problem to be solved

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I'll be kind.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  Kind.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Be.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Be.