Terry Bradshaw On Lessons From Super Bowl & Broadcasting Stardom, Battling Depression & Surviving Cancer

Terry Bradshaw is a four-time Super Bowl champion, Hall of Fame quarterback, longtime FOX NFL Sunday analyst, and author of the new memoir “Looking for Terry.” Terry opens up about playing in fear, his dark alter ego Roy, the night he snuck out of a Miami hospital, two cancers, and the Netflix obituary special set to air after he dies. He’s bigger than life. This one is very honest. Enjoy! Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Shokz: Use code RICHROLL for an exclusive discount on all Shokz products👉🏼https://beopen.shokz.com/RICHROLL Rivian: Electric vehicles that keep the world adventurous forever👉🏼https://stories.rivian.com/richroll AG1: Get the Welcome Kit + D3 + K2 + Flavor sampler pack FREE ($126 in gifts)👉🏼https://www.drinkAG1.com/richroll WHOOP: Join now and get one month free👉🏼https://www.join.whoop.com/Roll Squarespace: Use code RichRoll to save 50% off your first order of a website or domain👉🏼https://www.squarespace.com/RichRoll Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Much of my training is done on dark mornings, either on busy roads or on trails, shared with gravel bikers and various wildlife you're best to avoid. So hearing what's around me, that is essential to safety. Sealing myself off with earbuds really isn't an option, but the trade-off has always been accepting every bit of wind and road noise on top of whatever I'm trying to listen to. And the OpenFit Pro, that's what you see right here, solves that. Shox built open ear noise reduction into an open ear design, so the unwanted noise feels like it's been pushed farther away, kind of like an invisible hand holding it back, while you stay completely connected to what's happening around you. So you get this focused

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• 1:27Speaker 01

  I wanted to be the best. I wanted to be successful. That's all I thought about was winning. And I just couldn't shut it off. The thing I loved to do was the thing that was driving me crazy.

• 1:42Speaker 00

  You know Terry Bradshaw because he is synonymous with American football. First, as a Hall of Fame quarterback who led the Pittsburgh Steelers to four Super Bowl titles in the 1970s, and then as an outspoken broadcaster who has co-hosted Fox NFL Sunday since 1994. Along the way, he's acted in movies, he's recorded country music albums, but less well-known and understood are the countless obstacles that he's faced and overcome along his very long and windy path. Like riding the bench in high school, being considered a giant flop by everyone during his rookie year with the Steelers, surviving two bouts with two different

• 2:24Speaker 00

  kinds of cancer, an identity crisis, and a series of mental health challenges, all of which Terry details in his new memoir, Looking for Terry, and talks about today with remarkable candor.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Super Bowl's over. Horribly depressed, terribly depressed for weeks. I knew something was wrong. And I knew that when I had these attacks, I knew how sickening they were. It made me sick. It's like watching the sun go down. And I'm watching it. It's fixing to get dark.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Terry's definitely a one of one, and his larger-than-life personality definitely comes across in our wide-ranging conversation. I love it, and I think it will leave you with learnings about life, and maybe even a new and deeper understanding of one of America's most indelible characters.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  You did a great job with the book. It's a delight to have you here today. And the book is great for maybe unexpected reasons. I think it's great because it's very honest, it's very vulnerable. You were willing to talk about things that maybe you haven't talked about publicly before, or at least not much. And it defies the kind of athlete memoir trope of the typical professional athlete who writes a book with the hopes that it will extend their career. So it's not always the most honest account of what actually happened.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  And I mean, it's a book about facing and overcoming obstacles. It's about perseverance and resilience and, you know, all, and, and I think it's also like so much about like what people don't know. Like, I'm of the age, like, I grew up in Washington DC in the era of Joe Theismann. And, you know, it was right in the pocket of like, when you were, you know, at your peak, peak powers. And so it's much like, your favorite bands are the ones you were listening to when you were 16. It stays with you your whole life. So in my mind, like, this is the greatest era of football, and it doesn't matter what anybody has done in the last 40 years. Like, this still stands out as like the glory days.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Sometimes you have to remind the viewer or the reader, hey, we were pretty good back in our day, as they'd like, as they'd phrase it. Back in our day, we were pretty good. And today, in today's game, it's, then they can't get past, you know, the Brady's and the Mannings of the world. And, you know, the rest of us were, and I get it. I mean, sure, I'm 78, I'm not 38.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Who, who wants to hear about how great it was way back then?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, nobody.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Right?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Nobody. Let's be talk about my suspension helmet. We don't care about your, that's your problem.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  But you have choice words about the NFL in, you know, the late 1970s and early 80s versus the NFL today. You just wanted Bill Maher, and you were, you didn't edit your, your thoughts on the differences. So what was great about back then that's missing today? And what's better about today in the NFL versus your time?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  What, what is missing is pretty obvious. The, um, the compact, the viciousness of it. Physical, very physical. Rules didn't protect anybody. Yeah. There was no rules. There was, I don't recall rules being enforced or being brought up to protect anybody. It was, you know, a holding penalty. I mean, pass interference back then. I mean, it was

• 6:24Speaker 01

  pass interference. That was a total collision. So I think, I think the aspect of it being more physical is definitely the one thing that stands out. And let's understand one thing. What is so appealing about the NFL is the viciousness of it. The gladiator of it. That's what is so appealing. Remember, networks used to show the greatest hits of the week. And it was just like, holy cow. You see that?

• 6:58Speaker 00

  There was no awareness of CTE or any of this stuff.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  So we can have a romantic kind of relationship with that, but like, was that good? I mean, I'm sure you have plenty of friends that have suffered later in life as a result of that gladiator.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  I played with Mike Webster. But you asked me a question. The physicalness, the physical NFL in this heck 50, 60, 70s, 80s, the rules started coming into play. But that's what was so great about it. People ask me all the time. All, man, what's it like to get hit by so-and-so? And I, well, you know, those guys don't hurt you as much as the guy you don't see. The guy you don't see that gets a clean shot at you, that's the one that hurts. Not the guy that weighs, you know, I didn't play against 300 pound guys

• 7:59Speaker 01

  or play with linemen that weighed 300 pounds on the average. We had no one close to that. We didn't play with guys that overall had the great speed that they had. The 4-4 was very common. That was an occasional 4-3. But the toughness of the game.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Toughness versus the tech-driven athleticism of today.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  So you take, you take that part of the NFL, and then you come forward. Now you have injuries. Now you have people getting, see, we couldn't move either. We couldn't go anywhere. You're a Steeler, you stayed a Steeler unless they cut you or traded you. You weren't going anywhere. Nowhere. You couldn't go anywhere.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  That's the big, that's a huge, huge difference. And I think that's, that's played out over culture writ large. Like, look at movies. They used to go into the theater and they would get, you know, six weeks to develop an audience before getting pulled from the theaters. And now if they don't have a good opening weekend, they're gone.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  What's the average lifespan of the typical NFL player? It's not very long. They go into every game worried about getting cut or traded. You weren't allowed to like cook for a while and develop your, you know, kind of skill over time. And this comes across in the book. Like, you, you have all these obstacles. Like, it's not like just you hit it hard and were great from the get-go. You're, you're on the bench and all that kind of stuff, but you were allowed to develop.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Because, I'm just about to say that, because.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Of the, the short rope now, players come out, be a first pick in the draft or the first pick. Now, in two years, look what happened to the quarterback in Minnesota from Michigan, first round pick, eighth, eighth, eighth, eighth in the draft, I think, something like that. Now he's third during, now they're talking about where can he revive his career? I came out the first pick in the draft and I struggled, struggled. And it took me, my first year horrific, second year a little bit better, third year, you know, getting more comfortable with running the office, fourth year, definitely much better. Today, I wouldn't have made it. I would have been gone. I would have been gone because I had

• 10:20Speaker 01

  to grow up. I had to mature. I had to get used to being booed. I never was booed. I had to, you know, I had a tough coach. We didn't have a coordinator, had no offensive coordinator. We had no quarterback coach. We had, we called our own plays. We didn't have, you know, a placard on our, on our wrists. We, it was all in our, in our hands. And so it was a lot of pressure. And now, as the league from seventies evolved with the west coast offense, getting rid of the ball quicker, Joe Montana, then Bill Walsh's

• 11:00Speaker 01

  offense, Coriel's offense in San Diego. And, and it was fun to watch and more and more and more and more and more. And now we've got a game where in the last, I would say 25 years has been fun, a lot of passing, a lot of this, a lot of that. And it, it got to a point, late eighties, going into the nineties, rules, and I think it's primarily probably because of lawsuits, you know, and the league really got into protecting a

• 11:38Speaker 01

  player. We had players committing suicide. Their brains were examined, autopsies performed, came up with CTE, you know, it's, it's a brain injury, disease, call it what you want. Where players just, man, they just lose, they just lose their minds. I mean, Junior Sayal committed suicide. Mike Webster, he just, he just died. He was out under Bridges sleeping in cars. We had another guy, another student took his car on the highway, saw a gas truck and just ran right into it, blew it up and killed himself intentionally. So

• 12:21Speaker 01

  we had, the game had to, that the game had to get control of itself. And I think they've done a really good job, really good job of trying to protect the players, taking the head, the head out of the, the equation with the hits and everything, protecting the quarterbacks, use of hands by the linemen, so on and so forth. They've just done a really good job, pass interference. I mean, just done a really good job of trying to protect the players. But the minute, the minute the collisions end and the minute you, you take away the

• 13:04Speaker 01

  violence, and I love to use that word because that's a great word. I mean, I think hockey's, hockey's pretty bad, man. That's some bad stuff there. I get a kick out of that. But when you take all that out, you're going to take away part of the gladiator that the American public, you know, I don't know why, why did we slow down? Why you ask yourself when you're on a highway, Rich, and you're driving in traffic, just what's going on? You're looking up, oh, there must be a wreck and your little computer on your, your screen says, you know, there's a wreck on the highways. And there's no reason, it's on the other side, but everybody's slowing down to take a look. We, we're drawn to that. I don't

• 13:49Speaker 01

  know, I know what human nature.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  The rubbernecking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, amidst the kind of romance of all of that, you, like, your words are pretty melancholic in the book about this. Like, you have a complicated relationship with your playing days, you know, this, this is, you know, and, and, and also like a complicated relationship with Pittsburgh and Three Rivers Stadium. And, you know, it's not what people think. Like, it was difficult for you, the booing and, you know, getting benched in this challenging, you know, relationship with the coach and all of that. It isn't what people might imagine, like, oh, this guy.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  It was so quiet.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  MVP, Super Bowl MVP for, you know, all of it, right?

• 14:28Speaker 01

  That was, that was the most complicated relationship that was kept private, for the most part, mine with, with Chuck Knoll. To a point where it's unfortunate, because when I started talking about it, people said exactly what you just said. Oh, you win Super Bowls. It ought to be great. And, and the problem wasn't Pittsburgh and it wasn't Chuck Knoll. It was me, because I had, I was the one that had to grow up. I had to grow up.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Now, once I, once I was able to control me, which took a long time, by the way, then that.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  How you doing with that now?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  I'm doing good. Then, then, then the relationship didn't bother me and I didn't care. If he didn't like me, I didn't care. I mean, I wasn't afraid of him anymore. And once I, once I lost that fear of him, then, then I was fine. But still, but still, anytime I was in his presence or I was.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  But there's coaching, there's coaching lessons in this too. Like, part of it, yes, is you growing up and taking responsibility for how you're composing yourself in the midst of this insane situation.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  You gotta know, Rich, you gotta know what, you gotta know, what you, you gotta know in adversity, what do you respond to? How do you respond? Some people, Joe Namath, Joe didn't, he fazed him. It bothered me. It bothered me.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  I see, like, the little boy, Terry, who could have used a coach who was motivating him with a positive encouragement, rather than that philosophy, you know, of the time, which was tear him down, don't show him any love, this is how you harden somebody up.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:28Speaker 00

  I don't, I've had coaches like that in the past. Like, this is not the way to, you know, develop an athlete to have a relationship with mastery over time. You know what I mean?

• 16:39Speaker 01

  I do.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  I think that, like, coaching has advanced quite a bit since then, and I would hope that most coaches now understand, understand this. But, you know, in the seventies, like, this wasn't the case. It was, you know, kind of a drill sergeant way of motivation that, that really is a, not a good long-term strategy.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  You know what, you know what you respond to as a, as a grown up, as a man? I learned what I, I learned, and then I compared what I respond to. If you, if you love, if you love me up, I'm, I'm, I'm yours forever. I'll do anything for you. I'll run through walls. I, nothing, nothing will stop me. I'll, I'll perform like you've never, I want you to be happy with me and pleased with me. And because you show me love and you're kind. And I'm, I totally understand, I'm in a competitive world. I'm not oblivious

• 17:47Speaker 01

  to that. I know I'm dealing with, with, I know what I'm dealing with, with my job is to win and, and perform under pressure. But I, I'll handle it so much better. And my coach in college, for instance, was Mickey Slaughter. And he played in the NFL for the Denver Broncos. And he just, he just, man, there wasn't anything I wasn't great at. Wasn't anything I couldn't do. I mean, he just, he would not let me get down on myself. And I loved him for it and I responded to that. And then I go to where, you know, if you don't play well, I'm benching your ass, you know, and you're, and you play scared.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  You can't play scared. That's, that's no good. I mean, it got so bad, Rich. I'm rolling, I'll never forget this. I gave you one play. I'm rolling out against the Buffalo Bills at Three Rivers Stadium. And the guy in front of me, our, our receiver, has got nobody around him. I'm talking wide open. And I threw it right in the ground.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Right, right in the turf. Boo, I mean, but they were already booing. And it was just like, golly, that's what you call, that's not, that's, that's a person that can't handle pressure. You know, you don't, but then when you have, when you have all the confidence in the world, you thread the needle in a guy's hand and misses it by a half an inch. Snap it right in there.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  Or also just feeling safe to take risks, you know, because even if people are booing, you know, the coach believes in you, has your back, your teammates believe in you. But there is, there's got to be more running scared today in the NFL versus then because of, you know, the realities of, of how short these careers are, even if you have a coach that is reinforcing you with all the positive motivation in the world.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  If you're in the league eight or nine years and you're an NFL quarterback, they're, they're already talking about, we're going to have to find somebody to groom. You know, that very few Brady's that played 18, 19 years or Mannings that played 17 years. Or there's a lot of players that play 14, 15, 16 years. But now, now it's, we've got to, we've got to find that replacement, you know? And so there's a lot of pressure on these, and these coaches, and you're right, these coaches don't have, these coaches, they don't have, they don't have much time to be successful.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're on the line too.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  And I've said this, I say this on Fox a lot. My one thing is when they talk about, well, this, they got to fire this coach, get rid of this quarterback. And I say, you got to give them time. You got to let them implement their offer. You got to let them get the players they want. But these owners, you know, they don't have the patience for that, you know, they want to get, got to get rid of them and bring another one in. And I've always said, when you bring in a brand new coach, you should see some improvement somewhere, somewhere in your football team. There should be improvement. And if you don't see any improvement, you got the wrong guy. And that happens a lot when you get the wrong guy.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  When you reflect back on your life and your career, your successes, the challenges, et cetera, like, how do you make sense of this? Like, there's God given talent. You're, you're a natural born performer as an athlete and as a broadcaster. I mean, you're a character, dude, you know, and you're doing what you should be doing. Like, you're just bigger than life. So you're in the right spot for, for how you're kind of built, I think, genetically. And I'm sure there is just tremendous hard work and resilience and all the like, but like, you've lived a crazy life.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  It's been interesting. You know, I mean, it's been interesting.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  I don't know what I haven't done

• 22:08Speaker 01

  that doesn't, that's a part of entertainment. From movies to singing, I still sing, I still.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  How many albums have you put out?

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I want to do another gospel album. I've been singing in Branson. We were voted the number one limited show in Branson. And I was like, oh, that is so cool. And so we took a year off. I had to get hip replacement surgery. So we took a year off. And so we'll go back to Branson next year. I love to sing and perform because it's a, it's another form of entertainment, you know? And I'm in my 33rd year at Fox doing a show. And so you try, you try, I would tell any young person coming out, I would say, try it all. If you get the opportunity, try it all.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  All right. More than likely, you're not going to be very good at it. But give it a shot, you know, it's, it's a, it's kind of, it's, it may not even be in your bucket list, or if you have one, if you even have one. But I just, I just tried everything and just, you know, and the, and the thing that, that I'm most proud of is that I did try everything. And now I know that I'm good at television, and I can sing and entertain, I can perform. So I love that. And I give corporate speeches, which I love. And that's three forms of entertainment. You do that.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  So what, what is the, the core theme or message of the motivational speeches? What are you hammering people with?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  I don't necessarily think of myself as a motivational speaker. Now, I think that's how they book me. It's, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm down to be on a humorous now. The title of a speech has been for 40 something years is why not your best. I'd never used that title. I've never even mentioned it. But I get a call one day, hey, we got to give your speech a title. Really? Well, why we got to do that? Well, you know, they, we got to promote, what way I'm promoting, came up with, well, why not your best? But I've never.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  And what are, what are the tenets? Like, what are you communicating in this speech or these speeches?

• 24:22Speaker 01

  No matter who you are, no matter what your position in life, no matter, no matter your, your wealth or lack of, you're, it's human beings. Okay? I don't care who you are, Donald Trump, the Pope, everybody is a human being. Everybody deals with depression, highs, lows, everybody deals with failure, everybody deals with, and, and everybody has had some form of success in their life, everybody. And so I talk to them

• 25:01Speaker 01

  as humans. And I, and my whole, my whole story, my whole speech is wrapped around human beings, and how to treat people, and how to face adversity, and how to overcome it. And I had humor, I put, and it's filled with humor. And I like to get out in the audience. I like to touch people. I like to shake their hand. I, no matter how big the crowd is. So the whole, the whole speech is based on the human being. And because I'm, look, I'll talk to a banker on this Monday's speech, and then Tuesday, I'm talking to engineers, Wednesday, I'm talking to farmers, and then Thursday, I'm talking to brain surgeons. All four different, all four different, but they're

• 25:45Speaker 01

  what? Committed, the committed, I mean, they're all human. And so you have to, you have to, you have to strip the titles and walk out there. Now, most intimidating I have been in a long time in giving a speech. I was in Austin, Texas, and who was on the front row? Admiral Bill McRaven. The guy that orchestrated and designed the Osama bin Laden raid that killed him. He's right there.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  What are you going to tell this guy?

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Man, it, I'm not kidding, it tripped me. It, I'm like, God, that, that guy's a four star admiral. I mean, are you kidding me? This guy is smart. This guy is a seal. This guy's been through adversity. This guy knows what it's like to face pain and torture to get to a positive result. The end result's always got to be positive. And it.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Screwed with your head.

• 26:52Speaker 00

  Did you talk to him after?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  And what'd he say?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  He said, I love your speech. And I'm like, he's being nice, isn't he?

• 27:02Speaker 00

  So even you can have imposter syndrome?

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely, absolutely. It, absolutely. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not oblivious to, to facing fear and struggling with, I'm going to get through this, that Bill McRaven.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Autonomy wasn't something I was thinking much about when I recently got behind the wheel of a Rivian R2 with founder and CEO RJ Skorringe. But when RJ started talking about where Rivian is headed with it, I couldn't stop thinking about it after. What's your latest thinking on the short and long term future of autonomous driving?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  I think short term, it's going to continue to get better. For us, we get to a place by the end of this year where we'll do hands off, point to point navigation. So meaning you could plug the address in, say, tell it to go and it'll drive there on its own. Today, we have hands off, what we call universal hands free, where you can take your hands off, it can drive, but it essentially stays on the path it's on. But the next step is integrate that into navigation. So it navigates through turns, obviously stoplights, stop signs, everything. And that's this year. And then next year, we get to that plus eyes off. So we'll start with eyes off on highways. So you can be completely removed.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  It doesn't beep.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  It doesn't beep.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  You can put your hands back.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can do whatever you'd like. Yeah, you can do whatever you'd like.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  The autonomy and assisted driving features on the R2 today, and the ones on the horizon are just part of what makes it such a compelling vehicle. You can learn all about the Rivian R2, watch the rest of our conversation, and even book a demo drive at stories.rivian.com/richroll.

• 28:57Speaker 00

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• 30:22Speaker 00

  Near the end of the book, you share this story about taking on a 14 day challenge of kindness. Which, you know, which kind of is laudable, but also gives you the opportunity to say, hey, I'm a human being too. Like this was really, this was like the hardest thing I've ever done. And you see, and being a people person already, you would think that would come more naturally.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  It was fine. It was fine. What, you should tell them what it was, what I was doing.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Well, you read some self-help book that encouraged you to do this. And you're like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm gonna take this on. I'm gonna be nice to everybody.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  All day for 14 days, be nice. Now, you're gonna think bad thoughts, but don't say them. Everything out of your mouth is positive, positive, positive, positive. Hey, how you doing? Oh, it's good. Oh, I see. You just, just lost your arm. How's that going? Oh, you look great one-armed. I mean, everything is positive. No negative out of your mouth. And I started it in Chicago, right off the bat, walking down, hey, how you doing? Good to see you. Which I'm, I pretty much do all the time. Anyway, I got in the car and the driver's there taking me to Wisconsin. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. Oh, what a beautiful day pouring down rain. Oh, da, da, da. Oh, this is great. Everything. Hey, how you doing? Oh, it's good. Oh, I don't like you. I never have liked you. I'm signing books. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you feel like that. But

• 31:47Speaker 01

  hey, I really appreciate your coming. I mean, just take everything and positive, positive, no negative. Man, I got, I got home, I got home to Texas in 14 days. Oh my God. I was exhausted, exhausted, just from, just from being nice.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  But what is the impact that, did that have a lasting impact on you? Or did you immediately go back to like, I can't wait to be mean to somebody?

• 32:15Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't thinking about being mean, but you know, you're just automatically gonna say, you know, oh man, what a lousy, this is no good. I mean, you go right back in. I'm not a mean person, but I will.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  You're a human being. And it's hard to be, it's hard to be in a human body.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, Rich, you gotta think about it. You know, you gotta think about it. Now things just roll off, just come out of my mouth. My wife, who's always with me, I'll get a tap on the leg under her table, and I'm going, oh, oh boy.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, your superpower is your Achilles heel when it comes to your mouth, for sure. Right? You're digging holes, you know, all the time for yourself. But that's also part of your, part of the appeal, I think. Like, no one knows what you're gonna say, but they know they're gonna get you. And, and I think that that, that is also illustrative of this theme that recurs in the book around, like authenticity. Like, there is Terry the performer, and you know, you talk about like these multiple identities. You've got Roy, who's kind of like the dark angry guy.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  You know about Roy?

• 33:22Speaker 00

  I know about Roy.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Roy, everybody's got a Roy.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  I mean, only from the book, not in personal experience, but maybe he'll come out today. I don't know.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  No, no, no, Roy. Roy's outside in the car. No, no, no Roy.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  Okay. And this tension between like, okay, when you're, when you're performing, and there's this more like kind of good old boy Terry version of yourself, like part of that's authentic to who you are. And part of it is like, the volume's turned up on that for

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Showtime.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  For Showtime, and being the performer.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Like, who is the real Terry, you know, at the base beneath all of these, this, this multiplicity of personalities?

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Well, like.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  And how comfortable are you in, in that Terry's skin these days?

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Boy, that's a good question. I, um, my wife knows the real Terry, because she's with me 24/7.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  And I'm just like every, I'm like anybody else. I love, I love to laugh. I have a big personality. I see the bright side of everything. I truly do. I love people. I'm interested in people. I'm interested in what they say. And I know when I'm, and I know when I'm on stage, it's time to perform. You can't tell me that Mickey Rooney, or Bob Hope, or Jerry Lewis, or any of those great comedians, you can't tell me that when they went offstage, you know, it was, they didn't just go back and keep cracking jokes all the way till they go to bed. So, I don't think I'm any different than that. But I'm pretty much, what you see on television, that, that's

• 34:56Speaker 01

  how I approach. I get up in the mornings, I go to, down to the barn, and I'm loving on everybody. I'm cracking jokes with everybody. I'm, you know, I'm trying to make people laugh and make them have a good day. I enjoy, that is my persona. That's what I like to do. And when I, and then when I, and then when I'm, I get hurt, I'm hurt. I'm genuinely hurt. And then my wife will tell me, it's okay to say no. You don't have to do, it's okay to say no. And I have a hard time saying no. And because I don't say no, I get myself into situations where, you know, it bites me in the butt.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  But I'm pretty much, that guy, I'm pretty much a jovial guy all the time. That's just the way I live my life. If depression hits me, and Roy shows up, that's an ugly moment. And that's when I get quiet. And that's when, that's when, being married to a great woman who knows you inside and out, that's when she pulls me out of it. And that's, that's huge. But if she was sitting right there talking right now, she would tell you, I'm pretty much, I'm pretty much on a high all the

• 36:21Speaker 01

  time. I, I'm a, but I'm a smart enough guy to know that I love this, and I love that, and I want to do this, and I want to do that. And I can, I can create this over here, and I can create that. But I can't really make it happen. So I hire the right people. So I'm, I guess you'd call me the visionary guy. Oh, the horse business, it's all my vision. But my wife, my trainer, and they make it happen. Not me. Not me. But I know that. I know that about me. And I know, I know I make decisions, just like that.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Quickly.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  Decisively.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  And then go, then tomorrow morning, I'll wake up and go, damn.

• 37:09Speaker 00

  What I get myself into.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  And she'll tell me, she'll say, thank God for her, because she saved us a lot of money, because she'll say, honey, I know you want to do it. Let's just sleep on it. Let's just sleep. And the next day, I'm like, I don't want to do it. And she's right. She's right.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, you made it.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  If I weren't married to her, I.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  You've made a few bad business deals in your day.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  You know.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  You've got some big successes now. I think that you are a deeply sensitive person beneath the balderdash and, and the kind of like large public personality. Like, I feel like you're somebody who wasn't wired to really compartmentalize the booing and all of, you know, all of these kind of like obstacles that you had to overcome and the public's perception of you. It feels like, in reading your book, like, you were taking it harder than maybe somebody else would have in, in your shoes. Do you think that, that's fair? And, and you did your best to like, you know, carry on and push it down.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  I had to find a way.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  This stuff doesn't go away.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  It hurts me. It hurts me. I'm not gonna lie to you, being booed hurt. Being called dumb.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  I mean, it kept you from going back to Pittsburgh for a very long time.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Long time. I just, I didn't go to Mr. Rooney's funeral, because I didn't want to be around Chuck Nell and everybody. And that just was wrong of me, just so immature. But that's, you know, that's me. Not proud of it. There's a lot of things I've done I'm not proud of. But you're, you're spot on. I'm just, unfortunately, at 78, I still get my feelings hurt. I still long for people to love me. I still.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  You got, you got that gene, right?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  When you were playing though, was your, were you conscious of having this motivation of needing and wanting to be like? Like, was your external, was your, was your motivation externalized, based upon perception? Or were you internally motivated by like, just, I want to be the best football player that I can be?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Right. No, I wanted to be the, that was all I, that's all I thought about. I told, I, if people, I've had people say, what was he like in the huddle? Well, he would change plays in the huddle. He'd call a play and change a play. Well, yeah, that's because I'm calling the plays. And while I'm calling the play, something, oh no, I'm not gonna run that. Here, let's run this. Because I didn't, nobody, nobody called my plays. I called those plays. Those were my plays. Of all the things, of all the things I have to do in my life, one of the things I'm so proud of is that Peyton Manning didn't call his plays, and Tom Brady didn't call his plays, and nobody else called their plays. You

• 40:00Speaker 01

  know, I called my own plays. And my buddy, my brother, Howie says, well, you only had four. I said, yeah, okay, I got four. You going to the right or the left?

• 40:11Speaker 00

  But at least you were calling them.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. You're right. I wanted, I wanted to be the best ever. No, that's not true. I wanted to be the best that day. I wanted to be successful that day. That's all I thought about was winning. I could not separate winning from everyday life. Super Bowl's over. Horribly depressed, terribly depressed for weeks. And because I couldn't separate it, I couldn't say, Super Bowl's

• 40:53Speaker 01

  over, going home to the farm, going to fish, love my dogs, family, plow, cut hay, love on my animals, show horses, cattle, whatever it is I'm gonna do. I couldn't, it was right into next year. Oh, God, we gotta win again next year. Gotta play Cleveland again next year. Gotta play Cincinnati, Houston. Gotta play the Raiders. God. And I just couldn't shut it off. And when I, I was always looking for a way to shut it off. I was always looking. When I had a chance to do a television show with Mel Tillis, and it had been picked up by NBC, I would have retired at eight years, eight

• 41:36Speaker 01

  years in the league. And that was pretty cool, because we had won four Super Bowls. And I like that. But it got me out of, it got me away from football. And it didn't happen. I had to keep playing.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  It probably shouldn't have played, you know, it's really tortured me, you know, but I just, the thing I love to do was the thing that was driving me crazy.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  But you ever had that?

• 42:03Speaker 00

  Sure. It's, it's, uh, it's almost rigged that way.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  It's a disease.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  It's incurable.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  Do you, first of all, do you feel like you fulfilled that promise to yourself to be the best player that you could be? Or is there something that you didn't leave on the field that haunts you?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, to answer your question, no, I don't think I was the best player I could be because I played, I played too much in fear instead of being free.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Talk more about that.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Well, I was afraid early in my career, if I played poorly, I was going to be benched. And early in my career, I was benched. And then probably, it probably wasn't until the end of my career, my last, I would say four or five years where I had control of the situation and I wasn't worried about being benched. But for so many years there,

• 43:00Speaker 01

  we won, we won a Super Bowl, Super Bowl nine. Man, I'm going to be honest with you. I was benched twice that year.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  I didn't even start the whole year. I was, I lost my job in training camp to Joe Gillum. He lost it back to me. I lost it to Terry Haney. Terry lost it back to me. I lost it to Terry Haney. I mean, man, that's no way to play.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's like a footnote in history, but that was a big deal that kind of gets forgotten about.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you know why me tell you something? You don't want to talk about it and you don't want to bring it up. Me, not you. Because people say, wow, man, you want all those bullshit what you're saying. And that's not, it's not, it,

• 43:48Speaker 01

  it's not. And because it's coming out, you know, it's like, ah, it's trying to sell books. This book's not going to sell. I know this book's not going to sell. None of my books, I mean, none of them sell. Why would this one sell? I don't think it's going to sell. I'm going to bust my ass to see that it sells. But if they get their money back, you know, that's fine. But I'm, I'm not looking for this book to sell at all. I did the book, I did this book for me. I didn't do it for money because I'm not making any money on it, you know? I do Branson, I sing in Branson. I sing in Branson for fun. And it's, I enjoy it and, and, and it lets me showcase. I love it when people say, oh my God,

• 44:34Speaker 01

  I didn't know he could sing that good. And I'm like, that's what I want to hear. No money. You put, you know, you don't do, everything is not for money, you know? It just feels good. Makes me feel good. And I think it, you know, maybe it separates me a little bit from everybody else, which I like.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  Meaning that you

• 44:58Speaker 01

  I can do other things.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  Do with these other things just because it lights you up. And you're not constrained because you're making so much money on the broadcasting stuff. That pays the way for all these other things that you can do with your life.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  I mean, you wait, you wake up every day and you're going, boy, I'm the,

• 45:17Speaker 01

  I've overcome so much in my life and man, I'm fired up and people can't wait to hear what I got to say. And I'm going to write a book and do a podcast. You do that every day. You feel like it. You, I mean, you got the last word here.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Yep. Well, I, I think I have a pretty good gig. I got you to come here today. Like I get to spend

• 45:34Speaker 01

  I drove in the traffic to come out here and see you.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  You came to me, brother.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. You asked me to come to you.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  Back to the Admiral and, and back to the day when you got to call your plays. Like a quarterback has to lead a team. You have to demonstrate leadership abilities in that role, especially if you're calling plays. You have to have your guys bought into your vision of what to do in the moment. You're making these snap decisions. So you are by every definition, a leader. You have to be a leader, especially to take your team to the Super Bowl, et cetera.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, what's your definition of see?

• 46:11Speaker 00

  I want to, I want to understand like your definition of leadership and what you've learned about leadership roles and what you want to say about leadership broadly. Cause I think we're in a moment in which we could use a little bit of sound leadership.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sound moral leadership.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yes, I agree. Leadership to me is,

• 46:35Speaker 01

  and I've looked it up. I looked up the word leadership to get the definition. And it's, uh, so many, so many descriptions of leadership. Mine is very simple.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  I'm going to love you to greatness. I'm, I'm not going to, my way of being your friend is I'm going to bust my ass for you today in this interview. All right. I'm going to do my best.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  I'm feeling it.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I'm, that's what I want to do. I want you to enjoy this and I want all your, your viewers to enjoy it in the best ever. And I want to make it easy. And that's, that's, that's me giving to you. My leadership was the same way. I'm, I was not a, I'm not a hostile screamer. I don't have time to scream at you. If you disappoint me, Rich, I'm not going to say anything. It's, I'm, it's going to eat at me until finally, if I can't say something to you because of my relationship, I'll have my wife talk to you.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  And I'll tell her, golly, it really hurt me when, and I've even said, look, when I'm, when I die, will you, you say this and say that. I, I, I'm, I'm all about,

• 48:00Speaker 01

  moral support. I'm all about positive. I hate negative. I don't like screaming. I'm not going to scream. I'm not going to yell. I'm not, I'm not going to berate you in front of people. I had to stand up in front of the team one day and stand in my chair so my coach could chew my ass out in front of the team. How about that? You know, that's going to make me fight hard and that. But I, I led, you know, like a lot of people do. I led by example and I led with love and kindness and, and, and I was always smart enough to, to involve people in decision making. And if you involve people in decision making, then that lets them know that, hey, he, he respects my opinion.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  So that's, that's what I liked and that's what, and that's what I give. I don't, I don't want you to disappoint me. All right. Cause I don't, I like you and I don't want you to, look, I, I don't want to disappoint you. I have fired my uncle after 19 years. 19 years and I had to fire him. I wanted to fire him 10 years ago. I fired, uh, a manager of mine after 18 years. And I should have fired him earlier, but I didn't. I stayed on, I stayed on until he finally ate at me so bad.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  It was a cancer and I, I had to get it off my chest. I fired ladies that ran my business after 15 years. Same thing. It ate at me. It, now I'm the one that can't sleep.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Too, you gotta, you gotta figure out how to have direct, healthy confrontation with people.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  I don't want to hurt you.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  It's the people pleasing that gets in the way.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  I know. It sucks. I'm telling you. I, I, it is, it does, it does. It's, it's a terrible disease being a people pleaser.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  You know, is it true that, uh, you negotiate your own deals? You don't have an agent?

• 50:05Speaker 01

  No. Yeah, I do. And I don't have an agent.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  And that's because?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  I just felt like, well, once again, I trusted people and they're going to give me what's fair market. You know, what my value is. And every contract I ever negotiated, same, you know, I was happy with. I wasn't, I, I wasn't upset.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  Say, you say like know your value. This is like a mantra, like know your value. I know my value. So you can enter into a negotiation. And as long as you really know your value and you're willing to like draw the line on that.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  That's important.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Get the deal. But knowing your value in these other business arrangements with relatives, et cetera, like maybe like, you know, maybe you weren't, maybe you weren't, uh, uh, like honoring your own value in those, in those dynamics. Right?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  It is, uh,

• 50:59Speaker 01

  look, I got nine dogs. You know what I tell my dogs? You know what I tell my dogs?

• 51:05Speaker 00

  No, I don't.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  When they fuss and fight over a bone which there, and there are nine bones out there and I tell them, be nice. I tell my dogs, be nice, be nice. Tell them, be nice. And I live by that, be nice. And be nice, people. We, we do get pushed around. We do get pushed around and taken advantage of. And, and when I,

• 51:36Speaker 01

  if I ever am or have been a real asshole, it eats me alive. Doesn't bother them. Eats me up. I mean,

• 51:46Speaker 01

  knowing your value, yeah. What I found out when I asked the Steelers, I was MVP in the league. And we'd, and we'd won our last two Super Bowls and I was MVP in both of those games. And I met with the Rooney family and I told them, I want 500,000, I'd like to make $500,000. Okay. You know what they told me? To my face, my owner.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  What?

• 52:11Speaker 01

  You're not worth $500,000 to the Steelers.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  And what do you, what do you do with that?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Well, what am I worth? 300. Okay.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Sounds good to me.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  I think there's, there's sort of a Jedi mind trick here, or maybe a lesson in how to live like a, you know, a happy, meaningful life in that you might've taken a hit and not made what you thought you were worth or wanted to make, but this, this sort of moving forward with kindness and, and being a people person has benefited your life probably beyond what you would have imagined when you were a young person. Like, I think it, it pays it, it gets, it gets paid forward later in other ways because people want to work with you. They want to be around you, you know, all of this sort of stuff. So maybe you're taking like a little bit less salary earlier, but like you're making it up later.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  You've built good faith with like the community of people that you want to be around.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Look, I know. I would long for the day and that, well, that day's never gonna, never gonna happen. Where, where? I'm gonna say to you, hey, Rich, I won't, um, I'll come back on your show, but I, I know you paid your last guest $10 million.

• 53:40Speaker 00

  I've never paid a guest.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Rich, just don't fall.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  For the record, just so the audience doesn't get confused here. I don't want anyone thinking I've ever paid anybody, but go ahead.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  I didn't know you were so sensitive.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  It's okay. Trust me. Why do you think I want to talk about people pleasing? Like this, I'm having a therapy session with you. Like I need to.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  All right, all right, let me change that. So I've got, I'll go somewhere else. I, I know that you signed the last guy to do this commercial, the same one, you gave him $10 million. All right. I'd like to be able to say, I want the same $10 million. And they say, we're not going to pay you 10 million. They go get somebody else. Knowing I could get eight, knowing I could get eight. Do I want to walk away from a sure eight? Cause that's eight I'm never going to make up, right? And so I'll say, I'll take the eight, but I would like to know if, and it's not going to happen, that there was a time in

• 54:37Speaker 01

  my life when I said, I'm not going to do that. I did turn down one commercial for $1.9 million.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  This is the.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  Because it didn't represent my values.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  The erectile dysfunction situation or something. Right. Yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  Hey, yeah, yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 00

  You let Jimmy take that one?

• 54:53Speaker 01

  No, that's a different one. That was, that was another commercial. That was $650,000 that I was offered. And I said, I can't do that, but somebody that will. And they said, who? I said, Jimmy Johnson. And I said, you don't go anywhere. I'll call Jimmy right now after they told me, you think he'll do it? And I called Jimmy and I said, I got you $650,000 right now. Call this guy. Here's his number. And I said, now that's just, that's just right now. That doesn't mean that's what you're going to get. You may get more. It's up to you. And Jimmy, he jumped all over it.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  But I, I just, I just felt I would have a hard time with that.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  That was a, yeah, a bridge too far for you.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Oh, that's Terry Bradshaw. You know, when I'm home at night, oh, no, no, no, no.

• 55:42Speaker 00

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• 57:09Speaker 00

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• 58:27Speaker 00

  Your book opens with some of the craziest shit ever. I want to read, I want to read. I, I copy and pasted it here because I want to, I want to read it. So this is very early in the book. And this is you speaking. "One afternoon, I remember this so well. When I was about seven years old, I was throwing my torn up old Sears and Roebuck football, one that my dad bought on layaway against the side of our garage. Then I go running after it as it bounced away crazily. Suddenly, I realized a man was standing behind me. That was strange. I hadn't seen him coming. He just sort of appeared. He was a compact, stocky man. There was a small gap between his front teeth. He was wearing glasses, a

• 59:09Speaker 00

  fedora, and a green windbreaker with coach on the front. 'Young Terry,' he said in a gravelly voice, as if it was coming from heaven. 'I'm here to make you an offer. How would you like to grow up to become the number one draft choice in the National Football League, play professional football for 14 seasons, become the league's most valuable player, win three Super Bowls, and be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame? Then you would have a career in television during which you would win six Grammys, get elected to the Sports Broadcasting Hall of Fame, make several movies, have a singing career with a hit record, become a popular speaker, write bestselling books, build a few ranches, and race champion quarter horses, and eventually produce an award-winning bourbon. I didn't

• 59:51Speaker 00

  know what to say. Right then, my biggest dream was making the seventh grade football team. 'Wow,' I finally responded suspiciously. 'What do I have to do to make all of that come true?' This man hesitated, then took a deep breath, and finally said, 'You have to work with Howie Long.' I knew there had to be some kind of catch. 'Oh,' I hesitated, then finally asked, 'For how long?' He closed his eyes and admitted, 'A long time, young Terry. Decades.' I gave it some thought. Then I said forcefully, 'Make it four Super Bowls.' I know, I know that story might sound impossible, but it is as good an explanation as anything else for the incredible things that have happened in my life. Welcome to

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  my book. I'm the guy who plays Terry Bradshaw on TV." So, did this happen?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  Is this a dream, a fever dream? Is this a fantasy?

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  You ever had, you ever had something like that happen in your life?

• 1:00:49Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, but not that specific or, or, uh, dramatic.

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, the whole thing was, I played this game.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Hundreds of times where I was in Iowa, throwing the football up against the ceiling in my bedroom off of the nightlight on the street so I could see and catch it. And I always played games and I always was great at everything that I did. And the coach, the coach part was basically my opportunity because I always wanted to meet a coach. I never had met a coach, a football coach.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  And it was like, wow, you know, here's a choice I get to make. The Howie thing was thrown in because

• 1:01:49Speaker 00

  Little creative license, but you're saying

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  That's my buddy. So yeah, it's a dream.

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  You had a dream.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  It's a dream I'm having and it was a recurring dream. I asked my wife, Tammy, honey, you ever dreamed about your falling and you was like, oh, oh, you ever had that dream where you're falling? Yeah, I had this dream so many times.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  A recurring dream.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, absolutely. I picked up, you ever pick up on a dream? Where does that come from? How does that happen? You know, is that, is that strange to you that you pick up on a dream? Oh, you left it? Okay, I'll catch you tomorrow night when I go to sleep. It's crazy stuff, you know?

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  So what do you, what do you make of this? I know you're a man of faith. Like, how do you square this recurring dream with the reality that became your life?

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Well, before I got married, I didn't have anybody to share this with. Okay. I just had myself. I didn't share it with my brothers or my parents or anybody else. But when I got married, I went, my wife and I are so close that we talk about stuff like this. And we'll just say, boy, I had the craziest dream last night. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. You're kidding me. Well, I did this. And we'll try to figure out where these dreams are going and where they're coming from. Her son had passed away and, and he's talking to her.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  And signs, a, a, um, all of a sudden, a butterfly, she's in the kitchen and all of a sudden, a butterfly flew by her window. You know, it's like Cody had just come to say, hi, mom. You know, and I mean, that stuff is, I mean, that gives me chill bumps, you know, I think about stuff like that. So I believe, you know, as a, I'm a Christian, so I can, I'm not ashamed to say Christian. You say man of faith, that's fine. You don't wanna, I get it. Uh, but I'm, you know, in the world we live in, we, um, we Christians, people of faith, as you say, um, I'm, I'm a firm believer that, that as a Christian, I, my whole, the

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Holy Spirit lives in me and things happen in my life for a reason. And, and thoughts come to my head, which are beyond explanation. And my wife and, babe, I'm having this and we'll talk about it. So I have someone now I can talk about it. So that, so I just believe that I'm living in, I'm living this short life and I'm enjoying it. And the Bible says to be still and listen. And if we ever, if we ever end this world, we'll take time to stop in our daily activities

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  and just give some pause and just reflect, just sit there quietly. It's amazing. It's amazing that things that'll come in your head. It's amazing. You ought to try that sometime. And I, I enjoy that. It's a, it's a powerful feeling. And so the coach thing was just, this is where I'm headed. This is where I'm going. I'm gonna have that guy one of these days and I'm gonna have the big guy. You know, my best friend at Fox, Howie Long. I'm gonna have that big guy there one of these days. You know, that's kind of my shot at, shot at him. All of this is gonna come true. I never, listen, Rich, I never as a child thought I wasn't gonna be great.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  I used to sit in class and say to myself, say to myself, looking out a window and say to myself, God, one of these days I'm gonna be great.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  Where does that come from?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  I have no idea. Perhaps that's God telling me, you're gonna be great. I'm gonna use you in a

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  It wasn't your parents raising you to believe that about yourself necessarily.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, not at all.

• 1:05:44Speaker 00

  You know what's crazy about this?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Are you getting nervous?

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  In addition to the fact that, first of all, that was beautiful. Thank you. Like, I, I loved how you explained that. In addition to just the, the general craziness of the story.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Now you understand it.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  Well, here, it kind of, it's thematically consistent. Bear with me. Uh, last week when I was in, I told you I was in New York. I had the opportunity to do a podcast with Colin Kaepernick.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Speaker 00

  And he's got this book coming out.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  And in his book, he tells a similar story about when he was in, I think he was in fourth grade. And the, the class was doing like a time capsule, like write, write a, write a thing to your future self and we'll uncover this later. And he wrote like, I am going to be, like he said, I'm gonna be this height, I'm gonna be this weight, I'm gonna be a football quarterback and I'm gonna play for the, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play for the, the 49ers. Like, it was, it was, it was wild, like a full premonition, but the same mindset, like this is where I'm headed, a conviction in his own potential greatness.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  Um, in a very similar way, and these books are like coming out around the same time.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Wow. Quarterbacks, talking about their early childhood premonitions of greatness with an insane degree of specificity.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  There's kind of a common denominator here, you know?

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Which kind of adds a little bit more pixie dust on the mystical, uh, nature of this, the fact that both of you guys are talking about this.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  And he became great for another reason too, other than just football, which he was amazing at.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  I mean, do you

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  But he became great when he stood up for his values.

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  You know, which I admire.

• 1:07:35Speaker 00

  Are you like at liberty to talk about that at all or share your opinions on that? Do you feel constrained by the NFL?

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Well, you could, you could, I, I can answer your question real simple. You do what you want to on that sideline. If you don't want to stand for the, uh, uh, national anthem, that's your business. That's not my business. I'm standing because I choose to, to honor our flag and our anthem. If you don't want, do what you want to do. Do what makes you comfortable. You're, you know, you're your own man, your own woman. You do what you, you're, I, I'm not one that believes in, I'm, I'm not gonna judge you. That's not my, my job in this life is not to judge you, Rich. I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not, if you're bad and mean and hateful to me, I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not gonna do it.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Uh, if you don't want to stand for the national anthem, I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not gonna say you should stand up. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna voice them. I'm standing. I'm standing. Um, I'm gonna be nice to my parents. I'm gonna yes and no, yes, sir, no, ma. I'm gonna do all of that. I'm gonna be nice. I'm gonna say thank you when people do things nice to me. I'm gonna do all, I'm gonna be nice to women. If you're not nice to women, if you, and if you put your hands on a woman and you hurt a woman, you beat her up, as far as I'm concerned, you'll never play another down in the National Football League. That's a no-no in my book. Don't you ever do that. All right. I, I will judge you. I will judge you. I do have an opinion about that.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  I have a lot of opinions, um, but I'm not gonna judge it. Just, and if you ask me, well, would you, I, I just told you my answer. Colin can do what Colin feels comfortable doing and I respect him for it because it's his decision. It's not my decision. Now, if you're out there and you're listening to this podcast and you go, Bradshaw, you know what? Fine, you judge me, you wanna judge, go ahead and judge me. I don't care. That's, I judge you accordingly. You're nice to me, me and you are friends. You're not nice to them and they'll come tell me what a jerk you are and I'm gonna say, no, he's a nice guy, he was nice to me.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna, it's me and you, we're one-on-one here and that's our relationship and that's the way it's gonna be. And I'm not judging based on what other people say, opinions or whatever, that is not gonna affect me whatsoever.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  So I think I saw in some interview with you that you, that you did say something along the line, I don't want to put words in your mouth, something along the lines of like, you know, it is, it's a patriotic act to, you know, speak freely about your opinion on, you know, the state of the American project. Um, looking back now, like 10 years later, uh, in the way that, that, you know, he was kind of treated by the owners in the NFL, et cetera, and, and the uproar that that caused, like, you know, I, I just feel like this is something that history won't smile upon favorably and, um,

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Listen, listen.

• 1:10:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  You can

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  I don't want to get into a political discussion.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. I, look, uh, your taste, your taste buds change every 10 years. Your opinion about things, you either don't have one, but you do. Everybody has an opinion. I choose today, as I'm sitting here talking to you, let him do what he wants to do. That's none of my concern, none of my business. Do I feel that's unpatriotic not to stand for, yeah. But that's, that's me. I'm standing, I just told you, I'm standing, I'm singing it too. I'm putting my hand over my heart and I'm gonna be still, I'm not gonna rock back and forth. Colin can do what Colin wants to do. I've already explained myself on that. You look at, you look at people, people have to understand when you're in a place,

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  when you're in a position of power, or if you have a voice in something, you better be careful how you say it, because you are going to have, you're going to have an impact on people's lives. It's gonna happen. You can talk about President Trump, you can talk about President Bush, Obama, you can talk about anybody in a, in a position of power, or, or opinions, have opinions. You're gonna have an impression. I'm a firm believer in faith, I'm a firm believer in high morals, I'm a firm believer in being kind and gentle

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  with women, alright? I'm a firm believer in my relationship is with you, it's me and you, and it's nobody else. I don't care about anybody else. And they say, well, so-and-so does, okay, he's nice to me. Well, so-and-so, nice to me? You gotta be kidding. Nice to me? That's, that's where I, that's where my judgment will come in. But there are so many things in, in this world that's happening in America right now, that I'm just like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Can, can we not get along? The left and the right, and the left's got a better idea, and the right, they know it's a good idea, but they're not

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  gonna go along with it, because that's not the party? And then the right's got something, but the left's not gonna admit that's a good idea? Because they might stay in power, people who vote for, it's crazy what's going on. It's crazy. And nobody has the balls to stand up for what's right, what is right for people, people, human beings out there. And I just, and the morals, oh, I just, God.

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's crazy. It's, it's not only is it crazy, it's getting crazier. There's all these, you know, algorithmically driven, you know, incentive-based, um, aspects to how we interface with information and entertainment, that ultimately are driving us away from each other in a really unhealthy way, then I think we should all be deeply concerned about that. Uh, you know, I believe in America and this American project, I remain optimistic. But, you know, we have an illness right now, that we have to figure out how to cure. And it's a, it's a challenge, you know, and this is not a partisan thing. It's just like, we're in this together.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  I can't believe that we live in a world where we have a leader that insults people. God, I have a hard time with that. Insults women. God, I have a hard time with, I, I just, and I'm so afraid to say any-

• 1:14:11Speaker 00

  He's giving other people permission to behave the same. Like, there's a trickle-down impact to being in a position of leadership and demonstrating that lack of character that denigrates the quality of our character as a community.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, it is, um, it makes me shake my head. It, it, uh, and I'm, I'm in a position, as a matter of fact, I've never said any of this before, because you know why? Because if you pick a side, you lose the other side. There are 350 million Americans, and if you split them down the middle, that's 175 million, right?

• 1:14:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  I don't wanna lose 175 million.

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  Sure, of course not, of course not. But I do, but, but you're somebody, like, listen, in reading your book and everything I know about you, like, integrity is really important.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Oh, it's huge.

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  And so, you know, it doesn't have to be a political or a partisan issue to just speak about why you think integrity and having like, an ethical center is an important character attribute. Like, why do we even have to like, sell this?

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Why are we even talking about it?

• 1:15:19Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  It ought to be ingrained and a given in, in the American culture, that you treat people with respect, respect. Oh, you can disagree all you want to, but be, show respect. And we've, we've lost that. And we all know, when we do business with certain people, that we're gonna walk away going, golly, you know, I'm, I'm not ever doing business with that person again. I used to sell cars.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. You sold used cars? That's how you got your first branch, right?

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  Cause you weren't like, what was your salary when you were in those early days?

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Twenty-five thousand dollars.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, so you, you had to hustle in the off-season.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went back after my rookie year, and took one class to graduate. I was so mad I didn't graduate with my class. And I went to my dean and said, you've been sending me all over the state and neighboring states to recruit students. So I had to reduce my load, my class load. I needed one more class to graduate with my class. And he said, boy, Terry, that's out of my control. I, I, man, I'd like to, I'd like, basically, I'm asking them to give me credit. Give me, I don't, I don't wanna, hey, give me a C, just give me something. Yeah. And he says, you're gonna have to go talk to Dr. Taylor, President,

• 1:16:38Speaker 01

  and, and talk to him about that. So I did. So I went to Dr. Taylor's office, and I went in, and he's a huge fan of mine, I'm playing for Pittsburgh, bringing a lot of notoriety to the school. I'm thinking, boy, this is gonna be great. I got Dr. Taylor, I'm gonna get that three-hour credit I need, you know? So I go and see Dr. Taylor, and he goes, boy, well, you've been great for, I mean, you know, you know the story, you're this and that. And I mean, and I know where this is going. And he says, you, you wouldn't want me to give you credit for a class you didn't take, that's not you. And I felt bad. I felt bad trying to get out of class, you know, try to get a free grade. But my ass

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  is traveling around recruiting students. They were using me. There was no name, image, and like, NIL, back then. And so I had to go back, I went to Pittsburgh for my rookie year, and I had to go back to school when I got back. Um, and I went to, uh, we were quarter semester, so I had to go in the spring and take one class to graduate. So when I graduated, I got even, I didn't walk across the stage. I stayed home.

• 1:17:53Speaker 00

  Selling used cars.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Used cars, trucks, you name it. Yeah, it was fun.

• 1:17:59Speaker 00

  I've also heard you say that, that people think of you as this alpha, like, this alpha male. And your response to that is like, I don't think that I'm that alpha, like, I'm for the betterment of other people.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not alpha.

• 1:18:15Speaker 00

  But here's the thing, Terry, there's a lot of young men who are in positions where they're looking around, they don't see a lot of opportunity, we're having this loneliness epidemic. And, and there's a certain despair that makes them vulnerable to less savory influences out there about like, what it means to be a man. And I think you are an alpha in the healthiest sense. Like, you're modeling a certain kind of masculinity as a spokesperson, and the voice of this sport that is basically our national pastime, and is, you know, kind of really just this important cultural juggernaut. And so people look to

• 1:18:59Speaker 00

  you for guidance and leadership. We talked about leadership. You know, what is healthy masculinity in your opinion?

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  I think of alpha. Um, am I alpha at my ranch? Yeah, I am. Um, it's my ranch, it's our ranch. Um, if you mean, am I the top dog? Yes, I am. I know that. Um, but, but being a good alpha, I, I delegate authority. I'll let everybody do what they're qualified to do. Um, and very seldom do I interfere. I may ask questions, but very seldom do I interfere. Um, I like that. I like for people to do what they're qualified to do without

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  any interference, in a little direction, or if I, or if they need an answer, they'll come to me and I'll give them an answer. We, in the horse business, we have mares that are running together. There's always an alpha mare, because she's the one that picks on everything and gets everything she wants. So we have to take her out of the herd, put her over here with another alpha male, female, so they can fight one another, fight one another, and leave the, leave all the innocent alone. So I don't, I don't feel as, as though, as an alpha guy, a leader of, a leader of the pack, situationally speaking, yeah, but

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  for the most part, I, I pretty much am not the guy that jumps out front. I'm, look, I did that my whole life playing football. I'm real comfortable listening to what, now, you may give a, an order or something we're gonna do, and I may not agree with it, I'll say, you know, I'll say so. I'm not gonna be stupid, but, uh, at the same time, I'm not leading the pack either. And you know what? Let me tell you something. I don't wanna lead the pack. I like, I like sitting back, you know? I'm comfortable sitting back.

• 1:21:10Speaker 00

  You get, you get to, you get to throw the zingers in.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  That's my job. But then you're talking about the young people today that are lost. They're, they're lost. They, they, they, maybe, maybe they're confused, because it's all about money. I gotta make money, money, money, money, money. I gotta make money, money. I gotta make more money. And they, and do you ever hear the word, I gotta find my happiness, gotta find my happiness, happiness, happiness? No, because it's all, it's in this, in this country, it's, it's, we gotta have money.

• 1:21:44Speaker 00

  But there's this assumption that money is equated with happiness. Or that-

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  Is it? How come we have billionaires committing suicide?

• 1:21:53Speaker 00

  Right, so, or just as a status flex, the only way to feel good about myself or to compare to my peers is if I, you know, rise up the ranks.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, your self-esteem comes from your money and your position. Take away all of that and you're basically a nobody. You're struggling, you know, what about me, what about me? I'm, I'm, you're struggling. Me, I'm, I'm, I'm a happy guy, you know?

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  But you've had, you've, you've, you've endured these identity crises in your life. You had it when you stopped playing.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  I've been through a bunch of them.

• 1:22:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, so this is part of the hero's journey of, you know, living a long life.

• 1:22:35Speaker 01

  That's exactly, you know why? Because I've crossed, I've, I've traveled many a road and I've gotten to a lot of forks and I've had to make decisions. And when I've gotten there, and you said this earlier in an interview, and you had a lot of failures because you picked the wrong fork. You know, you went to the right when you should have gone to the left. So I've got all of this travel and all of these miles on my body and all of these decisions. Thousands, hundreds of, millions of decisions I've made in my life and good and bad. And I got all that and here I'm sitting at this table, 78 years of age with three girls, grandkids and a wife, beautiful wife.

• 1:23:18Speaker 01

  And I'm still, you know, still making decisions, still trying to figure out how much longer am I going to be doing the television? Still wondering, will I still be able to give speeches? Still wondering, can I promote this book? Still wondering, will they come see me at Branson? I mean, it's, you know, it's still there.

• 1:23:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  But I can handle it.

• 1:23:39Speaker 00

  You don't transcend it, but you have enough experience to know how to navigate it. And so with respect to the part of my question about the message to-

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Young people.

• 1:23:50Speaker 00

  The younger male or young people in general who are confused about the world and, you know, maybe not seeing opportunity for themselves. Like, what is it that you want them to understand about what you've learned along your path?

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  First of all, you know, you got me rubbing my head over here, Rich.

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  This is my job.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  I know, but first of all, you, first of all, you gotta, you gotta sit down and have a talk with yourself and ask yourself, what is it? You know, what is my gift? Everybody's got a gift. What's my gift? What is my purpose in this life? What is it that I love doing? All right? Now, I gotta, I gotta take a step. I got a leap of faith and I gotta go after it. And that doesn't mean luck. You think, you think Sam Walmart, Sam Walden had that one little store?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  And he said, man, if I had two stores, I could buy my groceries cheaper and I could sell twice as many groceries and I'd make a little bit more money and I could pass a little bit of a savings on the customer and they'll like me and they'll just keep coming here and they won't go there. Then he says, golly, if I had 10 stores, then I could do a radio commercial because then I'd have the support out there and I could spend my money for 10. Oh, wait a minute, what if I have 100 stores? And what if I call them Walmart? There you, well, now, now, now I got 100 stores and I'm buying all this produce and all these, all these supplies

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  that I'm going to sell and I'm getting them even cheaper and I'm selling them out to 100 stores. And so I'm getting, I'm getting in all these people and I can pass on the savings to them and I'm still making more money than I ever dreamed. What if I have a thou- and here we go. But it started with one thought, what if I had two stores? All right, so what if I have, what if I'm sitting out there, I just graduated? Let's forget college, because I don't think college is meant for everybody, certainly. Let's say you're sitting out there and you gotta ask yourself, you know, am I good with my hands? Am I good sewing? Am I good playing a guitar? Am I, am I, am I good in the community? Would I be a good community servant?

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  Would I be a good salesperson? Where can I get a job selling? What if, oh, I got a good voice, maybe I could do radio, you know? So how do I get, how do I get, how do I, make a plan? But you gotta find out what it is you want to do. What, what, you can't go to bed at night and not, and not look forward to getting up the next day because there's something exciting out there waiting for you. And it's, and don't put a dollar sign on it. Put your heart sign on it and say, okay, this is going to make me happy. I, you know, and that's what, that's what you want out of life. When you get to the end of the day, it's, are you happy with yourself? Are you happy? You know, how do you feel? I mean, I mean, to me, that's a pretty simple thing to do.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  I can honestly tell you, I love going, my wife and I, we love going to bed. We'll go to bed at 5:30 in the afternoon, get in bed and we'll go, this is great. Oh, man, this feels good to get all the dogs in bed. We prop ourselves up and we put on a show, we want to binge watch it or something and we just love it. And we're both like, you know, what are we going to do tomorrow? What's, and we can't wait to get up to next day and we get off, we get off in our journey and we, and we go together. Let's go here, let's go there, let's go do this, go do that. And it's, it's, man, it's just, you, you gotta have a plan. You, you gotta sit down and have a plan, but it has to be realistic. You know, you have to, you know your value. You know, you know your talents.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  All right? And, and so, so march on, you know? Take the bull by the horn, as they say, or whatever, but, you know, you're not going to start at the top, no matter where you go. You're going to start at the bottom, which is good.

• 1:27:57Speaker 00

  I've got this friend, Steven Pressfield is an author, and he wrote this remarkable book called The War of Art. It's kind of about creativity and how to be a professional and overcome procrastination, et cetera. But he has this great saying, which is, "Life is short, but it's also long." Meaning, you have to get up out of bed and get after it. No one owes you anything. And there is a sense of urgency in, in having a plan about your life and executing it, while also understanding that life is long and you don't have to build your empire in a day. It's about what can you do today that's going to move the ball forward? To your point of the first store, you know, he's not, he's not, he's not executing on building his empire, Sam Walton,

• 1:28:40Speaker 00

  you know, before he, you know, builds that first store and it's working properly.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  And I think people get really caught up comparing themselves to successful people and thinking that it happened rapidly. And in your book, it's just one of a zillion examples of showing like, no, it didn't. Like, this is just potholed and messy and, you know, like all of it, right? Like this path to greatness that we imagined in other people because we're projecting our own aspirations or jealousy or envy or entitlement onto, you know, people who are avatars like yourself, who represent a certain definition of what it means to be successful. And it just doesn't work that way.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you look at me and you see the end result.

• 1:29:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, you see the end result. And you also see a guy who's just like brimming with enthusiasm and you're talking about how excited you are to go to bed at 5:30 and wake up the next day. And what gets lost in, in that as powerful and as motivating as that little speech is that you just gave, is the fact that you also were diagnosed with clinical depression and you mentioned the anxiety before. And like, your mental health journey, you know, isn't like, oh, I just automatically wake up out of bed and feel this way every single day. So talk a little bit about that part of your life journey, this whole mental health thing.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  I, I will talk about that, but I would, I would want everybody to know, you're not looking. Now you look at me now and you see what all I've accomplished and you go, wow, he's really blessed. I really worked. I worked really hard, years upon years, day in and day out with a football in my hand to perfect throwing it.

• 1:30:20Speaker 00

  Also with a microphone in your hand, like you tell these stories about, you were a disaster when you started. They exiled you to, they literally exiled you to Siberia, like Alaska to cover the Iditarod because they're like, this guy can't do football, like-

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Oh, I know it was a compliment they sent me up there.

• 1:30:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's not, it's not like, you're very gifted at what you do and you certainly had a talent, but you were getting in your own way and talking, like you had a lot that you needed to learn and you needed like a dose of humility and to get right size.

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  But I didn't think-

• 1:30:50Speaker 00

  But you stayed in it.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  I went to the-

• 1:30:52Speaker 00

  Even though you wanted to quit.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I went to the Iditarod for CBS. I thought that was, they were, that was like, I've been chosen until I got there and realized I got here because nobody wanted this job. I'd go down there and they'd say, well, go interview all those dog mushers. And so I went down there, hey, how you doing? You're from Sweden, hey, what are you, where are you from? You're Norway, oh, that's good, Russia, hey, how you doing? And I'm interviewing all these, I get this guy from China. And so I said, hey, how you doing? Da, da, da. And he looked at me.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  So tell me, tell me about your dogs. How many you got? What kind of shape are they?

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Then I realized he doesn't understand one thing I'm saying. So I went, John Wayne? And he goes, John Wayne? And I went, oh my God, it's priceless. It was great. But yeah, I thought I was being rewarded, but no, no, get him out of here. You're right. But it was, look, it was, it takes a long time to develop your skills. I was, I didn't start in junior high. I didn't just start in city league football. I didn't start in high school, but one year when everybody had graduated, I went to Louisiana Tech. I sat on the bench two years behind Phil Robertson,

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  the Duck Dynasty guy.

• 1:32:18Speaker 00

  That's crazy. You were backup QB to the guy who ends up on Duck Dynasty.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I, I was not one of those great, great, great, great.

• 1:32:29Speaker 00

  But even when you were, you still like, okay, then you become like, okay, well, this guy's the number one college football quarterback in the nation. First, first pick in the NFL draft. And then you have to shoulder the expectations of that and you're not living up to it. So much so that Howard Cosell calls you like the number one flop in like the NFL.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  That was great. Yeah. And I couldn't wait to meet him. You know?

• 1:32:54Speaker 00

  What was that conversation like?

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  It was terrible. It was live on television, Monday Night Football in Pittsburgh, my rookie year and he walked out. The number one floppy in the NFL, Terry Bradshaw. You ever been, you ever been so embarrassed or so in shock that you're two feet from someone, you can't see them? Your vision goes? And that's what it was like. I couldn't even see him. I was stunned that he said that on, you know?

• 1:33:23Speaker 00

  So the point is, it doesn't matter how talented you are. It doesn't matter how audacious your dreams are. To live a human life means that you're going to face obstacles. And these obstacles are opportunities for growth and developing resilience, et cetera. And they're character building. It's not about avoiding them. It's about how you, how you see yourself through them.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Well, you asked me a while ago about depression and having ADD, which was finding out I had a tension deficit disorder was like best news I ever got. Cause it explained.

• 1:34:10Speaker 00

  It's also obvious.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  I didn't know it was obvious. But it explained the problems I had with school.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  So that's the fact that I got through, I'm proud of. But I had to read a book five times to get what you got out of it one time. And most ADD people, we have to go over stuff because we're reading it and we don't even know we're reading it. So.

• 1:34:39Speaker 00

  And this, this is, this, this results in, you know, people insulting your intelligence and calling you dumb over the years. Like you had to weather like a lot of insult on that.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Test. I didn't even know what the ACT. I went sitting there at college to take the ACT test. And I'm, I'm going through that and I don't know what it's like now, and even if they still take it. But you put little zeros, you color it in with your pencil. And I'm like, oh my God, this is, you know, this is ridiculous. And so I, I finished it and couldn't, I'd never been so happy to be through with something in my life. And I made 15. Now that's almost moronic. So I didn't know. I couldn't go to LSU, which was a blessing. If I'd got, if I'd

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  have made 16, I'd had to go to LSU because I signed with LSU. I didn't want to go to LSU. I felt pressured to go there. So I'd take the ACT test to go to Louisiana Tech and I passed that. You know what I made on it? You want to know? I'll tell you exactly what I made. 1,046.

• 1:35:49Speaker 00

  That's pretty good.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  That's average.

• 1:35:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's like, it's not, it's not like bad. Yeah.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Not bad, not great, not, yeah, average. Well, I'm average, you know, I'm an average guy, but about certain things I'm really smart and about other things, duh, yeah.

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  Just like everyone else.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. So anyway, then, then I started having these horrible panic attacks. And where did that come from? And then after big games, I'd be down forever and just got headaches and,

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  and didn't know what it was. Get on a plane and then have another panic attack.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  Got off a plane, they got me off a plane in Miami, carried me off in a, put me in an ambulance.

• 1:36:40Speaker 00

  And this when you were still playing?

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I'd just gotten out. I was through playing. And they put me in an ambulance, took me to emergency. And the people I was there to speak to came with me in the ambulance. And they got there and I was soaking wet. And they're telling me, and they're saying, well, he's having a panic attack. So, well, how long do these things last? And can, can, can we get him dressed? They wanted me to give the speech. And man, I'm, I'm thinking I'm having a heart

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  attack. So finally they quieted me down. And these people put me in the car that followed the ambulance, took me to the convention center, dressed me, and I went up and gave a speech.

• 1:37:39Speaker 00

  This is not, this is not that different than you get injured on the field and they take you in the locker room and they're putting whatever they need to into you to get you back out there.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Shoot you up. Yeah. And then, then after that, after I gave the speech, they took me back to the hospital. So I get into the hospital and the doctor, the doctor, the doctor, they admit me back to the hospital to run tests. And the doctor comes in about, I don't know how late at night it was. And I'm scared to death. And he says, we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to do heart surgery. We're gonna open, you know? And they said, yeah, well, I've done, I've done no tests. How's this guy gonna operate? Are you kidding me? So.

• 1:38:27Speaker 00

  And you're like 36, 37 or something?

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Probably. Yeah. Somewhere at 37, 38. So when this guy left and it, it got around midnight, one o'clock in the morning, I put my stuff on, I eased on out of the hospital. I eased on down the stairs and I walked and I found a store that had a phone. And I called my attorney and I told him what had happened. I told him, you know, where I was. And he ended up getting a plane down there and picked me up and they flew me to Fort Worth to a hospital.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  And they put me in there and went in and, and, and ran a thing up my thigh and shot dye or whatever it is into my veins to see if I had block arteries or what. And, and I was fine. It was nothing. I just had.

• 1:39:24Speaker 00

  Misdiagnosed your anxiety and panic for a heart condition.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  How about that, huh?

• 1:39:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Wow.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  I snuck out of that hospital.

• 1:39:31Speaker 00

  I know that you ended up going, like, this is around the time when they're starting to become some awareness around CTE, et cetera.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:39:41Speaker 00

  You go and see a whole bunch of like brain specialists. Like, do I have this? What does this mean?

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:39:47Speaker 00

  Um, and that's really when you start to like engage with mental health professionals around like what's actually going on with you and trying to get to the bottom of it.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I credit my wife with this because I was having.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Kind of like dementia stuff, you know, where you can't remember and you lose, you're losing thought and, and didn't know what was going on. Um, and I was, uh, forgetful, just forgetful, forgetful. And it got crazy, actually, crazy. So she took me, I went to Yale and we did three days of brain testing where they did everything to my brain

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  that you could possibly do. And came out from that and the, uh, doctor said, no sign, no sign, no wear and tear for dementia. No, what else? Uh, no Alzheimer's, uh, CTE, you can't tell to your dad. Um, so my brain was, was, you know, was fine. So.

• 1:41:06Speaker 00

  And the explanation then for these memory lapses is?

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't really have the answer for that. I still have them. I don't, but I'm old.

• 1:41:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, part of that's aging. I'm just curious, maybe, you know, in the context of, of like, being diagnosed with depression, you know, there's, there's some, look, there's some, you know, like, whether mild or severe, like, there's some trauma in your, in your background. I think the psychological scars of, you know, the booing and, and expectations being placed on you and like, all these kinds of things that you weathered over time add up and create like a kind of worldview or a sense of yourself. Maybe that has some relationship to forgetting things or, or whatnot. But I think that there is, and this is really another kind of core theme of

• 1:42:01Speaker 00

  the book, like, there's a cost that you've paid to have this life. There's the physical cost that you've paid of, you know, being in the Gladiator ring for, you know, as many years as you were. There is the emotional cost that you've paid by having to weather the criticism, et cetera, that we've already talked about. There's also the, the, the, like, existential criticism, sort of, uh, cost of, of, to your identity. Like, okay, now this thing ends, your athletic career, and you have to figure out who you are next, et cetera. And you lose that brotherhood that you thought you would always have, which is something that, you know, anybody who is in the military and has been, you know, deployed to conflicts, and

• 1:42:46Speaker 00

  I was like, they experienced some version of this. Like, it is a sort of PTSD.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially if you're a SEAL. I mean, notice the brotherhood with SEALs. That's pretty, that's pretty strong. I, you know, I suppose now, back then, what you're saying is probably a lot of truth to it. I mean, I had, I had more concussions than I realized. A concussion to me is I am totally out. That's a concussion. That, there are a lot of concussions that you go, huh, you know? That's a concussion. And.

• 1:43:24Speaker 00

  You just got your bell wrong. It was just, you got your bell wrong. This is happening all the time.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  But, but, uh, they, here's a good, here's a, here's a good thing about the depression. And here's the thing I did. I, I say this to the men that are listening. Okay. Here's what I say to them. A woman will more than likely go and something's wrong. She's gonna go to the doctor. A man's not going. He's not going. You gotta drag him. Um, but I went, and I'm very proud of the fact that I sought help. And it took

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  over a year with three different, first was my preacher, then was my marriage counselor,

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  a psychologist, and then it was a psychiatrist. And the end result was, um, diagnosed with depression. And, and when you go in for these, when you spend time with these people, you go through your life. Well, I've gone through my life three times. It's exhausting. You ever been to a psychiatrist? Hey, is it not exhausting? It's, it was for me. I'm so tired of talking about myself. Oh, and it came out and he said, we're gonna put you on this drug and we'll see

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  if this helps. And I think I've switched drugs once. I thought, I thought, and it was fabulous, fabulous, because the, the, um, the big attacks have ceased. I still get, I still get, I still get small versions. Um, I thought I wasn't on the drugs anymore, but I've always been on them. I just didn't know it. My wife said, you take them every day. I went, really? She said, I

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  give them to you. So I went, oh, I didn't, so I said, oh, I didn't know that. But the key for me in being diagnosed with depression, number one, and there's a lot I want to say about this. Number one is that I'm proud of the fact I sought help. I knew something was wrong. Okay? I knew something was wrong. And I knew that when I had these attacks, or when I had these spells, these horrible spells, I knew how sickening they were. It made me sick, so sick.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  And I, oh, I couldn't handle it. Just deep, dark. And it was devastating and scary. And I had to get, I had to get, I had to get rid of that. So being, being over a year in, in therapy, and then three, three actual years of, of therapy, of talking, three years I did this. A year, a year before I got medicine, and then three years of talking. And becoming aware of depression and what triggered it in my life, you know, I know what triggers it. Um,

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  or I know what will bring it on. Uh, and then the key was my wife knows it. All right. And also, and I know, and I know when it's coming on. It's, I know, it's like watching the sun go down. I can sit there and as the sun goes down, I'm watching it. It's fixing to get dark. Same thing with this, this disease. As it goes, I can feel it coming on.

• 1:47:25Speaker 00

  And knowing that you have tools to make it less severe.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  Yes. I still get them. They don't last as long anymore. I get, and the signs are real obvious. I get real quiet, real quiet. Can you imagine? I get real quiet. I get, and I, and I isolate. And she knows it. And she, she'll come out and she'll notice, she notices, notices it immediately. And then she comes out and, and it's kind of cute. She goes, she'll say to me, is Roy showing up? You know, that's one phrase. Or she'll say, are you, is it, is,

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  are you having your moments? And I, and I'll go, yeah. And sometimes it's emotional. And I'll say, yeah, I'm really struggling right now. And so she gets me, she gets me out of that. I can't sit there. She gets me up and gets me out of it.

• 1:48:26Speaker 00

  What happens when you gotta go on the air and Roy is, Roy's running the show? You just?

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  I can't control Roy.

• 1:48:34Speaker 00

  The show must go on?

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's pretty much the way it is. I've, I can honestly say Roy showed up one time. And so it's actually comical. So I'm sitting there at the desk with the Fox desk, and I got my head down.

• 1:48:55Speaker 00

  Pull up the clip.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  And I had these pills. So I took this, you know, took this pill. And I drank some water. And I'm sitting there and I'm, I'm trying to focus, you know, because it's live television. And I'm, and I don't read anything. It's all comes out of your head. And I'm sitting there. And I, and I lock in to the table. I'm just, Howie goes, hey, man. Hey, you okay? And I don't say anything. Hey, are you okay? And this is what, this is what came out of the,

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  are you okay? I turned to Howie and I go, I took the wrong pill. Took a sleeping pill.

• 1:49:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  And we started, we started laughing and.

• 1:50:01Speaker 00

  Then you were out of it.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  That was good, but I was, I took that sleeping pill. I was, oh my God, Howie. I just, I took, I just, I didn't know what was wrong with me. I was just.

• 1:50:15Speaker 00

  That's a pretty good one, man.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  I took a sleeping pill.

• 1:50:18Speaker 00

  In the movie of your life, this scene has to take place.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Oh, it's funny, funny, not funny, but funny, you know?

• 1:50:26Speaker 00

  Depression isn't the only thing you've been diagnosed with. You were diagnosed with cancer twice. Uh, you survived that.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  It's like, what's next?

• 1:50:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, you know, like you've, you've gone through a lot, man. So.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  Depression, I will say this, I mean, interrupt you, just the depression was, was the worst I ever felt. Cancer, I think stage three was as close as I got. And that would have been with, with the Merkel cell, the skin cancer.

• 1:50:55Speaker 00

  Really rare.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  Rare, yeah.

• 1:50:57Speaker 00

  Form of skin cancer, which is the second one. The first one was bladder.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  Bladder.

• 1:51:00Speaker 00

  Bladder cancer.

• 1:51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  And that was immunotherapy to deal with that.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  I still have to, and then you watch so bad about that, still have to go back and, you know, once a year and.

• 1:51:11Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah. It's, it's like a sliver under your skin gnawing at you. And even if like, okay, not stage four, stage, it doesn't matter. A cancer diagnosis is going to confront you with your mortality and.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:51:27Speaker 00

  Kind of think about, you know, death in a way that we don't when we're just living our lives. So what did, what did those experiences teach you about, about, about that? Like your relationship with death and your own mortality?

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  Well, here's the way I, I felt.

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  My, my quiet thought was if I die, I'm going to heaven.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  How painful am I, how much pain am I going to be in, you know, I, that was, you know? And then Tammy was telling me, she wouldn't let me talk like that. She, stop it, stop it. We're not going to talk like that. You're going to be fine. You're going to get fine. But I'm, I'm the one that has the cancer. You know, I'm just, I got a thousand questions I want to ask. Can I tell you a funny thing about this cancer? So we're waiting on the bladder results to come back. All right. And so she walks in to the den and I'm standing there and she goes, honey, I need for you to sit down.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Well, the last time anybody asked me, and last time a woman ever asked me to sit down, she said.

• 1:52:40Speaker 00

  It's never good.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  And the words out of that woman's mouth was, I don't love it anymore. And I want your ass out of this house by 5:30 this afternoon. So I told her, I said, hey, I got news for you. I ain't sitting down. You're not going to get me there. And she says, no, that, she says, um, you have bladder cancer. Something told, she was much more softer than that. But, and I went, what?

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  Sam, what is, what is bladder cancer? What does it do? Can, and then can, can we treat it?

• 1:53:18Speaker 01

  So that was, that was the first cancer. And during the treatment, Rich is when I, I went, man, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm going to make it. I don't know if I'm going to get out of this. Everybody said, oh, it's looking good. It's looking good. I'm one of those guys. Don't tell me it's looking good when I know it's looking bad. You know, you, you don't want to think like that, but you do, you know, it's like I, I talk about

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  dying and I tried to explain to people, when you get my age, it's something, it pops up. How much longer do I have? I'm 78. How much longer I got? If I got seven, my dad was 84. Okay. What, what I have six, what, do I have six more years? My mother died. She was 94. Or do I have 16 more years?

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  You know, now I've had these cancers and then, then we're checking for spasms. I get these spasms in my neck from where I got hurt, injured when I played. So I get them and they, they're painful as hell. And I thought, boy, and she said, well, while we're up there, we will have them in Yale. We do, we'll do an MRI. See, see if you've got a, a disc that's impending. So we did the MRI and they found the tumor over here. So if I hadn't have been bitching about this.

• 1:54:48Speaker 00

  So, yeah, by happenstance, because of the spasm, because of this injury, you sustained playing football, you were able to get this.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  So now I'm saying, thank you, Lord.

• 1:54:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  This is, this is something that I would have just, you know? And he says, you can't feel this snot? And I went, no, no. So then he put my finger on it right there and I went, oh, is that what that is? Tumor.

• 1:55:13Speaker 00

  Wow, that's wild.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  What else you want to talk about, Rich?

• 1:55:19Speaker 00

  Oh, I got lots more, buddy. I'm not going to hold you that much longer, but, and this is really my last question for you.

• 1:55:25Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 1:55:26Speaker 00

  You're still this competitive athlete who's, who's just in, in the game, in the game of broadcasting, living big, doing the things that light you up and publicly saying like, they're going to have to drag me out of the, the booth. Like I'm going to keep doing this. What is it that you're still striving for or chasing by living that life? When you don't have to.

• 1:55:54Speaker 01

  I've never thought about that question.

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  Cause that question has a lot of answers.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  I, I love quoteness from the movie Tombstone. When Val Kilmer, Doc, Doc Holliday, Billy Bob Thornton comes out of the bar after Wyatt Earp went there and slapped him, grabbed him by the ear and took him out. And then he's out there, Wyatt's talking to Doc, Val Kilmer, Doc Hollywood, Holliday. And Billy Bob Thornton comes running out with the shotgun and Kilmer's smoking a cigarette. Val Kilmer's supposed to sit there and he turns around and, and Billy Bob sees him and he freezes in his tracks, realizing it's Doc Holliday. And he stops and he goes,

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  well, Doc, I heard you was dead. And Val Kilmer, the great line, I beg to differ. I'm just reaching my prime. That's my approach. My approach is way too much to do, way too many speeches to give, way too many horse shows to show my, my horses and breed the next great champion. Way too many beautiful grandkids to love and spoil. Way too much time to barbecue with my three girls and their husbands. I mean, way too, way too much time to be on television, entertaining people and making people laugh and way too much to do.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  So I don't, I don't trap myself. And I do say, golly, boy, 78, I'm going to be dying. You know, I'm dying. My wife says, stop it right now. Don't, so she keeps me, she checks that with me, but I don't.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  I don't have an exit. Is that good? I don't have an exit. Rich, I, I don't, I don't have, I don't, I'm not crawling off the stage.

• 1:57:58Speaker 00

  You're a hundred and 10% guy. You're living your life at, you know, full speed and, and, you know, and God bless you. You know what I mean? Like what more do you want in life? Like you've got a beautiful family. The book is, the book is also, this, you know, not for nothing, you've been married a couple of times, but this is a, this is, this is also, it's a book about unconditional love and acceptance also.

• 1:58:21Speaker 01

  God did not intend for man to be on this earth alone. So I gave us woman.

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  And

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  I struggled with, with getting the right

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  woman. And I had to, after my third divorce, so embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed and trying to figure out

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  what the hell's wrong with me? Cause the common denominator and all of that was me. Three women, but the same me. And, and so I had to, once again, counseling to break that chain. This is what I'm attracted to. Got to break that chain.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  And, and, and you list the things you're looking for in a woman and what is love? What is true love? Being in love? What does that mean?

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  And it, and I didn't honestly think I was capable of it. And

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  the one thing in my life that's embarrassing is when people say, been married three times. You know what? I've been married three times. Four now. And.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  It was tough. How do you handle that? I know how younger, the young Terry looked at these Hollywood people that were married multiple times. And I was like, oh, man, you know, it doesn't sit well with me. But I had to, I had to cut ties with things that Terry really liked. And there was nobody ever gonna, you know, it just meant I was gonna be by myself. And so be it. And then I met Tammy. And I fought her for 12 years. I just, I just was not, I was not gonna get married.

• 2:00:28Speaker 01

  I was not gonna allow myself to think I was in love. I was not. Because I did, I thought I'd blow this one too. And she was, she just kept, she just kept being wonderful. And I just kept running away, but coming back. And then all of a sudden, I realized, wait a minute, best friend, my best friend, we do everything together, we enjoy, you know, the horses, the fishing, the travel, the golf. And she's my golfing buddy. I only play golf with her. I show horses with her. We go through our horse program together. We make decisions

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  together. We built, she built and designed our home. I mean, I finally realized she's my, you hear that, my best friend. We've 22 years together, we've been apart one day. One day.

• 2:01:23Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty cool. And so finally, I had a hard time getting married. Again, I had a hard time. So one night, playing around in the living room, front of the fireplace, I knew I needed to get on my knee and ask her to marry me. So I told her, I'm gonna practice asking you to marry me, having fun with her. So she stood up and I got down on one knee. And I took her hand, and I took her hand. Tammy, I couldn't even look at her. Tammy.

• 2:02:02Speaker 00

  It's like aversion therapy.

• 2:02:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. And I started laughing. So the best way for me to do, I know, Rich, I know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, man.

• 2:02:13Speaker 00

  Listen, man, you had to do a bunch of research to get to this place. That's all.

• 2:02:17Speaker 01

  On my heart, on my heart.

• 2:02:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  And I passed her in the hallway. Saturday night, we passed in the hallway and I put my hand up. I said, hey, we're getting married Tuesday. We're on our way to Hawaii the next day. I said, we're getting married Tuesday. We get to Hawaii Sunday. Monday, I'm cooking, cooking for, for, the, we get married, so I started cooking. And she said to me, look, I don't know if you were teasing or kidding around, but today's Monday, and we don't have a marriage license. And it dawned on me, we gotta go to the courthouse, right?

• 2:03:00Speaker 01

  We gotta go get one. So we went and we got it. And I didn't know it, but I was in such shock as I was walking down the hallway. She was standing behind me filming me going in. I went in, we signed the paperwork, went in the backyard, had some neighbors come over so we'd have some witnesses. My preacher from Houston showed up. We got married. And the minute we got married, we're all crying, we're all emotional. And then, then you, then you go, then you have this, why in the world did it take so long? Because it was great. And it's been great ever since.

• 2:03:36Speaker 00

  I'm happy for you, man.

• 2:03:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm happy for me.

• 2:03:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's great.

• 2:03:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, selfishly speaking, I'm very happy for me. You know?

• 2:03:43Speaker 00

  The book is called Looking for Terry. I think we, I'm looking right at him. I think we, we found a bit of him, at least, today. I love the book. This was great, man. This was super fun.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  So much fun.

• 2:03:55Speaker 00

  Hanging out with you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. You just, you just came with great energy. And just, you, you left it on the field, my friend. This was fantastic. Are you okay? You feel all right?

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm fine. You know what? My butt's hurting from sitting so long.

• 2:04:10Speaker 00

  We'll get you up out of there.

• 2:04:11Speaker 01

  This was great.

• 2:04:12Speaker 00

  Um, cool. You're welcome here anytime.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  I hope so. Thanks, Rich.

• 2:04:15Speaker 00

  Have some luck with everything.

• 2:04:16Speaker 01

  Your friend. Thank you.

• 2:04:17Speaker 00

  This is great. Appreciate you. Cheers.

• 2:04:42Speaker 00

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