Introducing Mentor Buffet: Zach Braff—Be Yourself Until Somebody Gives You a Chance

Today I’m sharing an episode of Mentor Buffet—a new podcast hosted by Alexi Pappas, the Olympian-author-filmmaker. Subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts Watch on YouTube In each episode, Alexi goes deep with brilliant changemakers to learn about the mentors who made the biggest difference in their lives and set them on their path. In this episode, Zach Braff talks with Alexi about his relationship with mentor Bill Lawrence, the creator of Scrubs and Ted Lasso. Bill was the first person to give Zach his big Hollywood break, casting him as the lead in Scrubs as the iconic J. D. Dorian. They also discuss the importance of being yourself, what Zach learned from making his debut feature film Garden State, the value of gratitude, and how to avoid shin splints. Subscribe to Mentor Buffet for new episodes every Thursday, available everywhere you listen to podcasts. Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Alexi Pappas?

  I really feel that I have no other choice but to be myself. It is so weird. I don't know where it's leading, but I feel in touch with myself. And so when I'm on the stage, it's like, I just felt like I wanted to dance like me. And it's not cool. Like, I'm not like, cool. But to be yourself is cool. Like, that's cool.

• 1:22Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I am here today with my good friend, Alexi Pappas, podcast favorite. We're going to do something a little bit different today. We're going to introduce you to her brand-new show, Mentor Buffet, part of the growing family here at Voicing Change Media. But before we do that, I wanted to just catch up with you, Alexi, see how you're doing, and maybe we can, you know, kind of set the stage and create some context for your new show.

• 1:54Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. The last time I saw you, we were in Paris, and we were at the Olympics, both of us. And... Your daughter Jaya helped with an indie film I shot. And now I'm home and I had a surgery on my collarbone. That is like a very cool scar. And I feel like it's like a new school year. Like it is a new school year, but I feel it's a new school year for me, too.

• 2:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, so much packed into like that one sentence. Uh, yes, we were both in Paris together, both doing stuff for brands and, you know, kind of participating in the whole Olympics thing, which was like incredible. It was the first time I'd been to an Olympics and you were all over the place doing tons of stuff while also remarkably, uh, basically producing and starring in a feature film, which I don't know how you were doing that. And I want to thank you publicly for, uh, having Jaya, our, our 17 year old daughter, kind of join your team and work as a P A. on the film. That was a very meaningful experience for her and she learned a ton from you and, and your team.

• 3:02Alexi Pappas?

  Jaya's awesome. Jaya also brought me, Jaya was so calm because I had, you know, there was an accident that happened outside the track and my collarbone got smashed. And it was like the two producers and Jaya and myself got in an Uber to the closest hospital and she fed me water in this really nightmarish waiting room. And I was like, wow, like this is a human who is like really, um, like in touch and like able to kind of just like be like, you know what I mean? Like, cause I really needed water, like I really couldn't move my arm.

• 3:41Rich Roll?

  Anticipate your.

• 3:42Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. And I felt like as, you know, I care a lot about her and I felt like we weren't, we couldn't possibly have sheltered her from the like rough edges of making an art project or of doing something or of having an unexpected thing happen. And she, she seemed to like understand and like be okay with that. And that was really nice.

• 4:01Rich Roll?

  She loved it. I mean, she's studying film and is super into production. So it was just amazing that those two things like lined up with us both being in Paris at the same time. So thank you again. And, and I'm glad that she added value to the project.

• 4:17Alexi Pappas?

  Hundred percent.

• 4:17Rich Roll?

  And I'm also lamenting the fact that you broke your collarbone like in Paris. Like what a bummer amidst everything that you had going on to have to contend with that at the same time.

• 4:27Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was wild, but, um, You know, it was kind of cool in a way because I had, I was very grateful to be able to go into the Olympic Village most days and that was really nostalgic for me, but also with the brace, I felt like a sport from, like an impact sport athlete. And so people, like I felt like a skateboarder and I felt like I fit in with like a different community because in running, it's all this overuse injuries. And so I felt like, I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I fell and I smashed my collarbone. I had to have that thing stitched up the next day. I had all these screws in my arm and that would have never happened in a running race. So.

• 5:02Rich Roll?

  Also getting a lot of empathy from athletes who probably thought that you were there as a, as an athlete.

• 5:08Alexi Pappas?

  Yes, yes. I mean, it was.

• 5:10Rich Roll?

  Oh no, you're here to compete in the Olympics and you broke your collarbone.

• 5:14Alexi Pappas?

  Right, yeah. It was, it was, the empathy was there and I had some really cool experiences though. There was like, um, a few athletes like prayed over my, like there was like these experiences you have that, um, make you understand when they say like Olympic friendship, they really mean people who don't have to interact deciding to like be there for one another. And it's really cool. Like the respect and like love between athletes is, is really real there.

• 5:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I could feel it. I didn't go to the Village, but I was around enough to, you know, kind of by osmosis, uh, feel that sensibility for sure.

• 5:53Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was cool. Paris was like back.

• 5:56Rich Roll?

  For sure.

• 5:57Alexi Pappas?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 5:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was great to be there. They did a great job. It was such a cool Olympiad. And then to come home and realize how popular the Games were, because that's the thing, when you're there, you don't quite know how the world is absorbing all the things that are happening there. And prior to Paris, the Olympics were kind of on the wane in terms of mainstream kind of excitement about them. And I feel like NBC, the media and the Games and Paris all did such a great job to kind of bring it back, right? I, I, I think people were like really excited about it.

• 6:30Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was, I mean, it was like the best, it was the best thing ever. And I think, um, it's a really positive force in the world, right? It's like people chasing their dreams in one place in this like, like tight amount of time, but loose enough that you can actually find your way to a sport that you've never seen before, you know, like going to, I went to breakdancing finals and I was like, wow, it's like. A whole other world of, you know, the judge, you know, you can't, it's just so different.

• 7:02Rich Roll?

  The other thing that I felt was sort of new and different was a larger like embrace of people who got silver and bronze medals and also athletes who were excited about being on the podium and not winning gold. Like, I feel like my generation, it was kind of about gold medals or nothing, you know, and oh, that's great. You got a silver or bronze. Whereas it felt in this Olympiad, and I'm curious if you agree with this, that there was a lot of attention and a lot of excitement on behalf of the athletes and the crowds for the people that got the non-gold medals.

• 7:41Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, well, and you saw, it started with the athletes, right? Because you could see, like, I remember at the skateboarding finals, like, all, they all, like, held each other up. Like, it was like this awesome little, like, parade of all three of them together. And so I think, I think leadership starts with athletes embracing athletes and then us realizing, oh, they're not enemies. They actually, like, they respect each other. They might even be friends.

• 8:06Rich Roll?

  Usually they are, because they've competed, they've been competing against each other for a long time before that moment.

• 8:11Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. And, I mean, I've been thinking a lot about how, like, the world for the generation of athletes, like, coming up that peaked in Paris, it's a challenging world, right? So like, to be there is a really big deal, right? The standards are impossible. The circumstances, you know, to grow up and, and, and feel okay. I think a lot of these kids had the COVID upbringing, you know, it's like, I think it's just a really big moment to be there and, and people, people really feeling that it's a privilege, it's an opportunity, it's a celebration just to be there felt real, you know?

• 8:45Rich Roll?

  Sure, sure, sure, sure.

• 8:46Alexi Pappas?

  It was cool.

• 8:47Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Well, you're back now. Your tentacles are spreading far and wide into all kinds of different projects. But we're here today to talk about Mentor Buffet, your brand new podcast that I am very proudly supporting among my Voicing Change team members to help you birth into the world and craft into everything you want it to be. So first of all, congrats. And maybe take a moment to explain the concept of the show and why you decided to jump into this whole podcasting thing.

• 9:19Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. Well, it is hugely thanks to your belief in me, because I think I have had

• 9:27Alexi Pappas?

  I have ideas in my life, right? Like, I had an idea of like, I want to go to the Olympics. But it was like, I had a coach who had been, who was like, "You could take this seriously." And then I dove fully into it. But I can't, I can't say that it hasn't been helpful to have people believe in me and be like, "Walk through this door." And so, I'm very grateful to you. Um, and, you know, this show started as a chapter of my book, Bravie, about how, you know, I lost my mom young to, you know, to difficult circumstances and, and felt that it was unfair, right? It was unfair, she left this world. It felt bizarre to not have this resource. But made a decision that, in lieu of this one Keystone mentor,

• 10:12Alexi Pappas?

  I would reach for everything else that I might have needed. Because, otherwise, I wouldn't have survived. Like, I was like, "I need information." And I wasn't getting it just from my dad and my brother. I needed it. And so, that chapter was about all these mentors in my life. And the show is about talking, it's, it's me talking to people I admire about who helped them along their journey. And what I like about it is that I think mentorship can seem very, you know, you're lucky if you have it. It's this passive thing that you either receive from a random tree, like an apple falling. Um, but it's not usually that way, right? And I think for a lot of these guests, it's like, a single interaction they had.

• 10:57Alexi Pappas?

  It's a friend, it's, it's two months they spent in India, in the case of Diplo, with this person. Um, and so, hopefully, it can open people's eyes up to the possibility for mentorship in their own life.

• 11:10Rich Roll?

  I think it's a great conceit. A, because you get to have all these really cool people on who are kind of tired of telling their story, time and time again.

• 11:22Rich Roll?

  And instead light up when they have the opportunity to shine a light on some anonymous person who made a big difference in their life. I think that's really cool. And obviously, it's invigorating for the guests to be able to do that because it's an act of service that they can give to, they can honor that person, right? And that just, I think that feels good for everybody to be able to do that. And I think secondarily, I think it's really interesting and smart to narrow the focus of your show like on this one thing. Like now there's so many podcasts, right? Like, how do you choose? And it's no longer like enough to say, well, I'm gonna have interesting conversations with interesting people. Like, it's too crowded. So how do you stand out? And by deciding like, okay,

• 12:07Rich Roll?

  this is the area that I'm gonna focus on, I think, I think is, is special. And, you know, I believe in the show, and I think you're doing a great job. And I'm excited to share an episode on the feed.

• 12:19Alexi Pappas?

  I can't wait. And I can't wait to talk to you on the show.

• 12:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, are you gonna ever invite me on?

• 12:24Alexi Pappas?

  Yes.

• 12:24Rich Roll?

  I'm waiting for my invitation.

• 12:27Alexi Pappas?

  I feel like I needed to like-

• 12:28Rich Roll?

  I have a lot to say on this subject that might be a little bit different than other people.

• 12:32Alexi Pappas?

  Well, that's the, that's the idea, you know, is that it's the, the goal is to, to learn. It's like, it feels like grad school to me, but it feels like a grad school where there was no like, there's no textbook, right? There's like a person and what actually, who actually affected them, which isn't even up to them. It's like you're either, you know, you either learn from someone or you don't, right?

• 12:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And I think it expands our kind of rigid concept of mentorship. We tend to think of it like, oh, I'm gonna find this person that is well-known, and I'm gonna convince them to, you know, allow me to be under their wing. And yes, I guess that's how mentorship works for some people. But by and large, and for most people, it's not that, right? It is the random person, or the unlikely kind of, you know, individual who saunters into somebody's life. And sometimes it's a prolonged relationship. And sometimes, to your point, it's just a, it's one conversation that ends up making the difference. And I think it allows people to have a more- A more expansive idea of what that might look like for themselves.

• 13:37Rich Roll?

  And also as a consequence, to draw kind of greater presence and attention to their daily lives to kind of look out for that. And when they feel like maybe there is that energy, you know, coming their way to, you know, find a way to kind of move towards that as opposed to kind of dismiss it as a one-off whatever.

• 13:58Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, I think, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this here, but I think this is going to introduce the, the episode with Zach Braff.

• 14:07Rich Roll?

  I believe that's true, yes.

• 14:08Alexi Pappas?

  Well, and he, when I first met him, he was telling me about you, you as one of the people in his life, but he hadn't even met you. And I thought that was so rad because sometimes mentors-

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  You were chatting with him before we met?

• 14:20Alexi Pappas?

  Before I met him and learned about his mentor, his mentors, I had met, I met him and he heard me on your show. See, this is, the world is so whatever, you know? But he was expressing how much your show was a mentor to him and he had never met you.

• 14:38Rich Roll?

  I see.

• 14:39Alexi Pappas?

  You know, and what was powerful about that is like when you allow someone to like, you know, be your mentor who you have never met. Like, I love that there's an imaginative element to it, too, of basically saying this person is teaching me something, whether or not they're talking directly to me and know my name. Anyway, I think that's a cool thing about-

• 15:02Rich Roll?

  Well, I adore Zach. I feel very fortunate to, you know, have him in my life and to be able to call, call him a friend. I think he's a brilliant artist and a very insightful person who's, you know, navigated a lot in his life to be the person that he is. And I'm delighted that you guys hit it off. I think he originally like reached out to me about, he like really wanted to meet you. Yeah, because he had heard you on the show.

• 15:28Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was not, he's like a, he's a curious and confident person. And I think that like equal parts curious and confident means you're like, I have some, you know, I have a perspective and I want to grow and change. And I think that's also like what your network is, you know, what this show is, is hopefully it's helping people have tools to change, right? It's educational because I would have liked more information available to me and handed to me, like I wanted information.

• 15:58Rich Roll?

  Me too.

• 15:58Alexi Pappas?

  Right? Like you just sometimes-

• 15:59Rich Roll?

  It's part of why I started this. I was like, wow, you know, if this kind of resources, these types of resources had been available to me at, at, you know, my formative stages, it could have made a huge difference.

• 16:11Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, that's why you started it.

• 16:13Rich Roll?

  It's a big part of it, yeah. Because when I started listening to podcasts very, very early on, before anyone else I knew was listening to them, I was like, what is, there's so much here, like, oh my goodness. Like when I graduated from college, you go to the career counseling office and there's like brochures for consulting companies and investment banks and that's kind of it, you know? And it's like your sense of possibility, even though I was at this remarkable, you know, university, still felt very limited. And had I had something like podcasts available to me where all kinds of people were sharing stories about how they became who they became and how they did it and all of that, it just expands your ceiling on, on what's possible and kind of enhances your imagination around

• 16:57Rich Roll?

  like your own trajectory in life.

• 17:00Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. I'm finding in this experience of like learning the craft, because it is its own medium, right? Like it's different than writing a book or writing a movie. It's its own medium that, you know, I'm learning from you, I'm learning by doing and I'm learning it's very, it's observational rather than like conclusionary, because it's like-

• 17:19Alexi Pappas?

  It's more process oriented because you're encountering people at a moment in their life and they have observations, they have something to say, but they haven't, you know, because there's two people, it's not, it's not scripted, right? Like, or at least ours are not. And so there's a really like lovely aliveness to it that feels like you're not trying to say something that will never have anything else to say about. It's just like, this is where we are today about these things.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  I think it's a medium that suits the way that human beings learn best because you could, you could take a conversation that you had with somebody and distill it down into like the three lessons and write a blog post or make a listicle or whatever and share that. Would that impact people? Maybe. But I think it's much more profound and impactful when those principles are kind of a product of an authentic and organic conversation in which a person tells a story. Because that's the way we kind of remember and process information.

• 18:22Alexi Pappas?

  That's true. And it, it kind of like indicates that we are changing all the time. Like it, it indicates that you can be in a process too, right? Like because

• 18:35Rich Roll?

  We're all in a process.

• 18:36Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, but I think a lot of mediums are bookended, right? It's like the end of the movie, the end of the book. Like a lot of art is pretty, it ends. And there's something really meaningful about that, too. But I'm finding it to be like a really wonderful space for me to not be finished either, which is really wonderful to feel safe being like, I am just, this is one rung on the belt that is, keeps going.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  Sure. Well, if you're approaching it with curiosity and what you're trying to learn and how you're trying to grow, you put yourself in the seat of the audience member who can relate to that. Because we're all trying to do that on some level.

• 19:15Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Rich Roll?

  Don't you think?

• 19:17Alexi Pappas?

  Yes.

• 19:18Rich Roll?

  So who are some of the other guests that you've had on and who are coming up?

• 19:22Alexi Pappas?

  Uh, well, we have, well, Rain Wilson was the first episode and that was really fun because he's also in our network.

• 19:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, keeping it in the family.

• 19:30Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was fun. And he, he's like, He was so curious and I loved that conversation because I didn't get to go to NYU as an actor, but like that would have been an amazing experience for me. And so to kind of experience something that I never have and expedited and learned from him was amazing. We had Diplo on and that was really special because I admire Wes's like, how does he exist, you know, and to learn how his mind works is almost is more profound to me than than seeing his work, you know?

• 20:07Rich Roll?

  There's something like mythical about that guy, I think. And I know that you just came from Seattle where you were with him for part of his, you know, Diplo's Run Club, which is like this new thing that he's doing, right? And it looked unbelievable. Like, how many people showed up for this run?

• 20:25Alexi Pappas?

  The San Francisco one had 14,000 people. Unbelievable. Like, I can't tell you how much, how seamlessly this race felt like it brought together people who loved to party but might care about their health and people who love running but might not ever have an outlet to just like move their body in a way that is not rigid and like doesn't is not for anyone but themselves. And it was so cool.

• 20:52Rich Roll?

  It brings in like the non-athlete crowd, right? Because he has a whole fan base that has nothing to do with health and fitness. In the same way, like Travis Barker is doing a version of it also, like his Run Travis Run. And my friend Toby Morse did one of them recently. They had one in LA. And he said it was incredible because all these sort of punk rock people show up and they have never run a race in their life and they're in vans and, you know, like, you know, like, like, it's a whole, it opens the aperture of running up to an entirely new community because of the fan bases that these musicians have.

• 21:30Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, it was, I mean, and there were Bravies there who like hadn't, didn't, were kind of finding their way with like, do I film myself or do I just put my phone away? And that was like a real moment for me of realizing, like, do I just exist in a moment and like drop myself in and be? Almost like de- I've been thinking about this, like decontextualize yourself to not being like, I'm a runner who is at a party, but just be like, you are feeling the music. Yes, you're in a sports bra, but like be whatever you are. So it was cool to see that, that too.

• 22:04Rich Roll?

  And what is your role with that unfolding kind of experience? Cause you're kind of right by his side and then you're up on stage afterwards, like dancing around while he's like doing a set.

• 22:14Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, which is fun for me. I mean, that's different. Well, look, I, you know, I ran with him in the LA marathon and this inspired the run club, right? Like he felt like, oh, there's a real like space here. He's interested in it. There needs to be a social element that he can bring. And then these first two, San Francisco, Seattle were, you know, that was this year's, you know, kind of launch and it was highly successful. And I ran with him, which I think is helpful because he like, whatever, I can, you know, it's, it's, it's helpful for a lot of reasons. It's fun. Um, and his, I don't know, like his bodyguard is not going to run the 5K with him. Like it's, it's helpful to kind of have.

• 22:54Rich Roll?

  But you bring a certain energy to it that is different from his.

• 22:58Alexi Pappas?

  It's different. And then on stage, you know, what is cool is like, I do feel since this Paris trip, I really feel that I have no other choice but to be myself. It is so weird. I feel, I feel, I don't know where it's leading, but I feel in touch with myself. And so when I'm on the stage, it's like, I just felt like I wanted to dance like me. And it's not cool. Like I'm not like cool, but to be yourself is cool. Like that's cool. So I think it brings an element of like, um, you know, it's, it's also fun to have an Olympian there, right? Dancing and, and celebrating.

• 23:36Rich Roll?

  Sure, sure.

• 23:37Alexi Pappas?

  Right?

• 23:37Rich Roll?

  Awesome. Uh, and so who else?

• 23:40Alexi Pappas?

  Well, Tommy Caldwell.

• 23:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I just walked over to your studio next door to gather you to do this. And I see Tommy Caldwell and I was like, wait a minute. I'd never met him before, but I just had Alex Honnold in here and they just had a TV, they have a TV show that's about to premiere. Um, probably will be up by the time this goes up. And I was like, whoa, Tommy, I'm like, like we need to exchange notes cause I had no idea that he was going to be in the studio today, but sorry, I interrupted you.

• 24:07Alexi Pappas?

  You didn't interrupt. You came, I mean, this is kind of the spirit of what we're doing too is like, it means so much too. When you come up into the studio, like this is part of the joy of this is that I feel like you're really building like a community. So for you to come say hi was awesome. And Tommy, you know, what that really represents is like, I want to talk to people across disciplines, you know, like athletes, artists, chefs, musicians, and just show just that mentorship both exists and is a big wild, wild west in every industry. Right? It's not like it is just the same everywhere. And yet, everybody needed help to get where they are.

• 24:52Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 24:52Alexi Pappas?

  You know?

• 24:53Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 24:54Alexi Pappas?

  I don't know. There's so many fun, there's a lot of fun people.

• 24:57Rich Roll?

  Well, there's so much more we could say, but we should probably let people listen to this episode, which is the one between you and Zach Braff. I haven't watched or listened to this one in full, but I did see the reel that you shared where he tells, he beautifully tells this unbelievable story around the most impactful scene in Garden State, which was the conclusion that ultimately didn't make it into the movie. And it's a story that ends up kind of leaving you emotional, right? For reasons I think I know. And maybe we won't spoil it. We should just let people know that,

• 25:38Rich Roll?

  that there is kind of like an emotional journey that you go on in your conversation with him.

• 25:44Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. And I think part of that is some of these people don't know me that well. And they don't have to know me that well to have me talk to them and learn from them. I think what's kind of fun about this show is like, I think I can learn from anybody if I sit down and talk to them. And I want to learn. And so I think the conversation with Zach was that. And I think all of them serve as like both, there's information you'll learn, but also just to like, watch people share about what they learned is kind of this.

• 26:20Alexi Pappas?

  I don't know, it's like a, it's not theatrical, but it's like, it is something, right? Something's happening there with that exchange.

• 26:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. Well, let's not spoil it any further. Let's let people enjoy this conversation between you and filmmaker, actor Zach Braff, on the newly minted, recently-launched Mentor Buffet, which you can find on YouTube and on all your favorite podcast players. More information also at voicingchange.media. And do you have a website for Mentor Buffet? Or should people go to your website if they want to learn more about you?

• 26:58Alexi Pappas?

  People should go to the Mentor Buffet Instagram and TikTok.

• 27:01Rich Roll?

  That's right.

• 27:02Alexi Pappas?

  And it's every Thursday, and we want you to go in for seconds.

• 27:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you're gonna love this episode, so just stop right now and subscribe everywhere.

• 27:12Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Rich Roll?

  And because it is the Mentor Buffet, you should go in. It's all you can eat, and then go in for seconds and thirds.

• 27:23Alexi Pappas?

  Yum, yum, yum.

• 27:39Zach Braff?

  I had a movie called The Broken Hearts Club that was playing at the Sunset 5, which was an arthouse theater at the time. And I was waiting tables. I hadn't experienced where people would come from the movie to the restaurant. And I was, I would wait on them. And I remember people coming to me and they would do a double take. And they were just like, "We just saw your movie." And I'd say, "Oh, thank you so much." And they'd say, "You were great." I'd say, "Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it." Let me tell you about the specials.

• 28:20Alexi Pappas?

  We live in a complex and ever-changing world, a place that is maybe harder than ever to successfully navigate. The answer is surely to be brave, but it's also to seek and be open to guidance. Mentors are the one consistent through line in the lives of all accomplished people, myself included. So, welcome to Mentor Buffet, a feast for those, like me, curious about who helped the most successful among us succeed.

• 28:48Alexi Pappas?

  Zach Braff has been an actor his entire life. He first acted when he was 14 alongside Gwyneth Paltrow in a CBS TV pilot that never aired. And he also did a bunch of other roles since then. He auditioned a ton, he went to film school. He was really trying to make it work. In his early twenties, he followed a girl he loved to LA and kept trying to make it.

• 29:09Zach Braff?

  I was broke, so I had that Nissan and I had a job at the restaurant.

• 29:13Alexi Pappas?

  And then his mentor, Bill Lawrence, entered the picture.

• 29:15Zach Braff?

  Bill Lawrence, who created Scrubs, and Ted Lasso, and Cougar Town, and Shrinking, and Spin City.

• 29:23Alexi Pappas?

  Bill is the first person who really gave Zach a big Hollywood chance.

• 29:26Zach Braff?

  My journey began when I auditioned for the first time for Scrubs.

• 29:31Alexi Pappas?

  Which became a big hit and catapulted Zach into mainstream celebrity. Sometimes mentorship starts because somebody really believes in you. I really celebrate Zach's debut feature, Garden State, which I saw at exactly the right place and exactly the right time in my life. And you know what I'm talking about with movies like that for you. I've learned a lot from Zach. His lessons are about staying true to your dreams and then figuring it out from there. Here's the actor, writer, director, Zach Braff and me.

• 29:56Zach Braff?

  They always say, like, only in Hollywood can you go see a movie and then have the star of the movie wait on you for dessert.

• 30:04Zach Braff?

  And there are other times where I would have like a me, I remember going in and meeting with like a potential manager and I'm bragging about how my career is blowing up and how I'm up for this and I'm up for that and I was in this and you know, like you do, just like hyping yourself up so that you seem so desirable. And then that night, the guy sat down at my table to be waited on with all his friends. And it was so humbling. And I actually really enjoyed being a waiter, even though it was very hard, but I, I often smile when I think of the camaraderie and the laughs we had in the worst of tensions and the worst of stresses on a Friday night when, when you're in the weeds and you're just screwed. You have so many tables, you can just shake your head and laugh. And I

• 30:48Zach Braff?

  remember some of the biggest belly laughs I've ever had have been that, in that environment.

• 30:52Alexi Pappas?

  That's awesome.

• 30:53Zach Braff?

  But it was humbling in trying to present yourself as, as, as blowing up and then, and then, you know, but whatever was, was what I had to do.

• 31:02Alexi Pappas?

  And it's not that you're not blowing up, it's just that the, everything takes longer than we think.

• 31:07Zach Braff?

  I think because I'd been at it since I was a kid, I was getting a little bit.

• 31:12Alexi Pappas?

  You're getting.

• 31:13Zach Braff?

  I knew that I would work in production. You know, what I always say to aspiring actors and directors and the like is, you know, you're, you're, there's a lot of wonderful artists and jobs in the industry that aren't being an actor, that aren't being a filmmaker, that aren't being a screenwriter. So you can pursue those and get trained in a bunch of the trades and be involved in production if that's what you like. You know, I would have been a camera assistant, I would have been a camera operator, I would have been a first AD. I loved just the world of production. So I, I, I sort of knew in the back of my mind, I'm gonna try as hard as I can in, in, in, in being the leader and being an actor

• 31:54Zach Braff?

  who, who can, you know, pay to live here. But, you know, and if that doesn't work out, I'm, I'm, I don't have to go be an orthodontist. I can, I can, I can, I can still do, I can work in the, in the, in the space that I love. And so I try and encourage young people to.

• 32:14Zach Braff?

  To do that, to not just pursue trying to be a star, because that's ridiculous.

• 32:18Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, and it's out of your hands a bit, like, there's like, you know, it's like, there's give and take there. And it sounds like you're really someone who, like, wanted to be in the game. You're like, I like this, I like this game. I want to be in the game, right? There's a lot of positions.

• 32:31Zach Braff?

  I think a lot of people set themselves up for, I'm gonna try to, to make a living at the hardest things to make a, to living at, and then if it doesn't happen, I'll have to go do something else. And, and for those that this applies to, I say, you know, simultaneously be learning a skillset. In this, in the example that you like, production, learn a skillset on set that's something that you could do that, that isn't being an actor, that isn't being a writer-director. Because the odds of those happening and also being enough money for you to survive are slim.

• 33:11Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, I think that's very wise. It's like, it's, I have no better way of saying what you said. Finally, tell me about Bill.

• 33:18Zach Braff?

  The next chapter of my, my journey began when I auditioned for the first time for Scrubs. I had heard that they'd been looking a long time for this guy, and I went in and...

• 33:33Alexi Pappas?

  This guy?

• 33:34Zach Braff?

  This guy, J.D.

• 33:35Alexi Pappas?

  It's just awesome that he's like a, they're looking for him.

• 33:40Zach Braff?

  Yeah, I mean, the, the lead of a show, I mean, any character in a show, but when you're casting stuff is now, I've been on the other side of the table a bunch, it's like, it's, it's not, it's kind of intimidating. Will we find the guy? Because the show, you know, 75% of making something good is casting it.

• 34:00Zach Braff?

  It makes or breaks everything. And so, if, I think for, for them, the casting people and Bill Lawrence, who created Scrubs, and Ted Lasso, and Cougar Town, and Shrinking, and Spin City, they were kind of nervous. They, they couldn't really find the guy. They, and, and so I went in and the casting director, literally, it was such a click, it was such a fit. The casting director was like, what are you doing later this afternoon? You have to meet Bill. I mean, he was so instantly excited about my read. And it was exciting for me because I, so many things that I was reading at that time, I, I really didn't find that funny. It was sort of, you know, sitcom-y jokes that

• 34:43Zach Braff?

  I tried my best to make funny, but I didn't, it was not something I would have watched. Whereas when I read Scrubs, I laughed so hard, it was so my sense of humor. It was, it was subversive and it was kind of racy and it was, it was the whole single camera fantasy aspect. It was pretty out of the box for, at the time. And, and I'll never forget that he, I just kept getting called back. I kept getting called back for more and more. And I, I got really superstitious and I started wearing the same clothes every time.

• 35:12Alexi Pappas?

  Oh, I do that. I wear the same socks when I race. I used to wear the same socks and not wash them.

• 35:17Zach Braff?

  Yeah. I don't know if you have the time to stop in a race and won't change them. But you don't wash them. That's gross.

• 35:22Alexi Pappas?

  They're lucky socks.

• 35:25Zach Braff?

  Okay. Um, anyway, so Bill really believed in me. Bill was the first person to really give me a big shot as, as a lead and I was completely unknown. I was waiting tables and he just believed in me and he really went to bat for me. Cause there were people that were up for the part that were, that were famous, um, that were up, that were on household names. And he really believed in me and campaigned for me. And then I got the part and it was life-changing, obviously, but then he began, it continued. He, and what the great thing about, if you were aspiring filmmaker and you're on a TV show, a, a single camera comedy, one thing that's, that's wonderful is, there's a different director every week. So it's,

• 36:10Zach Braff?

  it's like grad school for a filmmaker because every single episode of Scrubs, a new filmmaker with a new style, and a new modus operandi on set would come in. And I could learn for him, from him or her and be like, ooh, I love the way they are doing that. Ooh, I'm not so crazy about the way they do that. And so I was just a sponge. And also too, with the, with the, with the improvising and with comedy writing, Bill was so good at it. He was so, one of the things he's masterful at is, is the blocking of the scene and, and figuring out the funniest way to, to block the, the actors and then also, uh,

• 36:54Zach Braff?

  coming up with new jokes on the day that are better than what's written. And so that whole way of working, of going. Of going, you know, at the, at the blocking rehearsal, when we figure out who's gonna be where and who's gonna say what and who's gonna, when are you gonna grab that? He was, you know, it's clear from his track record, he was, he was a master of that. So it was, it was an incredible grad school in, in directing and in, and in directing comedy.

• 37:22Alexi Pappas?

  It's awesome because you, you are a writer, director, actor. Like, that's not, that's not everybody, you know, who does any one of those things.

• 37:31Zach Braff?

  Yeah.

• 37:32Alexi Pappas?

  Do you think that Bill is like, did he make you want to be doing that? Or did you always?

• 37:37Zach Braff?

  It's funny, at first, he was a very big brotherly to me in some ways. He was very supportive of me, but I think he was skeptical about my writing and directing aspects. I think also he just wanted me to be the star of his show and be great and be focused. But then I went and made Garden State, which was kind of like, you know, in a funny way, an audition for Bill to show that I could make things.

• 38:01Alexi Pappas?

  Well, that's very sweet. That's really, really sweet.

• 38:03Zach Braff?

  I cut Garden State in my living room. We didn't, we were saving money everywhere. So I, we set up the, the avid, the computer system we cut movies on in my living room. Of my, I had just bought my first house and there was no furniture in it. There was nothing in it except for the avid computer terminal in my living room. And I think a couch and two chairs. And then I asked Bill to come watch it and give me notes.

• 38:31Zach Braff?

  And he did, and that was really, really important because he gave me some major feedback.

• 38:38Alexi Pappas?

  Can you, can you tell me about it?

• 38:39Zach Braff?

  I had an ending that was a bit shocking, that's not in the film. It's, it's an ending that I wrote that was a bit of a, a twist, a reveal that ultimately was really powerful, but it was kind of upsetting. I remember that Bill watched the movie and he said,

• 39:00Zach Braff?

  "That is the most powerful scene in your movie, and it will never be in your movie."

• 39:08Zach Braff?

  And he goes, "You can't see it yet, but I'm just gonna plant that seed." This is an example of trying something on.

• 39:17Zach Braff?

  And that, because your instincts, your instant response is like, "Are you out of your mind? Like, you think I'm gonna cut that scene?" Like, dah dah dah dah. But you try the coat on and you sit with it. And then ultimately, he was, he was right. You wanna know what it is, don't you?

• 39:35Alexi Pappas?

  I wanna know what it is and, and, and, because I wanna understand what, how he thinks. Not because I'm like-

• 39:42Zach Braff?

  Well, he was, he was right. So, in short, without telling us too long for those of your listeners and viewers that know the movie Garden State.

• 39:52Zach Braff?

  The mother character had drowned in the bathtub. She was a paraplegic and she's sort of mysteriously drowned in the bathtub. And we, the audience for the whole movie, assume it was an accident. We don't, we don't know really exactly what happened. And, and then the story becomes mostly about a love story, about two people finding each other who, who really desperately need each other. And what I had written, because she had made lots of allusions to not wanting to live anymore, the mother, that she, she had attempted suicide and was an extreme depressive and

• 40:36Zach Braff?

  really just didn't wanna be alive anymore. I had written a scene that, towards the end of the movie, that's a flashback to the night that she drowned and you hear her screaming in the water. And then Ian Holmes' character, the father, runs to go save her and then has an epiphany as he reaches the doorframe in the bathroom and he stops himself and he grips the side of the doorway. And he realizes how desperately his wife doesn't want to be alive anymore. And from his point of view, he loves her so much that he decides he's gonna do what she wants and let her go. And he slowly backs up from the doorframe and sits down on the bed and listens to her drown.

• 41:20Zach Braff?

  And then after she stops screaming, he picks up the phone and calls 911.

• 41:30Zach Braff?

  I didn't mean to make you cry, I'm sorry.

• 41:31Alexi Pappas?

  No, it's...

• 41:34Alexi Pappas?

  Well,

• 41:36Alexi Pappas?

  why do you think that it's not in there?

• 41:40Zach Braff?

  It's very raw, and it's very intense, and it's very painful, and it's something a lot of people who have had suicide in their life, or people they love who've contemplated suicide. It's so raw and painful that it hijacked the whole emotional end of the film.

• 41:56Alexi Pappas?

  Which is a lot about

• 41:58Zach Braff?

  Which had become

• 41:58Alexi Pappas?

  Other decision-making, right?

• 42:00Zach Braff?

  And also, because you don't know what you're making until you make something, I didn't really fully realize that I'd made a love story.

• 42:06Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 42:07Zach Braff?

  And you don't want all of those emotions and rawness and painful feelings

• 42:15Zach Braff?

  derailing the love story you spent two hours building.

• 42:19Alexi Pappas?

  Well, it's powerful because Bill is basically saying that, like, it's basically like restraint for the sake of balance, right?

• 42:26Zach Braff?

  Absolutely, which is a huge part of being a filmmaker.

• 42:30Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 42:30Zach Braff?

  It's like a conductor of the orchestra, being like, "Your violin playing is fucking perfect, but in this particular piece, it's too loud."

• 42:38Alexi Pappas?

  Well, it's so loud. I mean, the reason why I teared up is this, whatever, I've, you know, personal stories related to this, and like, I would have like, my dad, like, you know, I've saved my mom, like, we've been there, you know? And so like, the thought that someone,

• 42:58Alexi Pappas?

  like, maybe people would have made that decision, I don't know, it's just so like, my dad wouldn't have done that, you know, and it's like, obviously that dad isn't my dad.

• 43:07Zach Braff?

  Right, I mean,

• 43:07Alexi Pappas?

  But it's like-

• 43:08Zach Braff?

  He was, he was a bit of a controlling narcissist,

• 43:13Zach Braff?

  of a, you know, if you remember the film, he's, he's heavily drugging his son.

• 43:17Alexi Pappas?

  Totally, totally.

• 43:18Zach Braff?

  You know, he, he's not exactly the dream dad.

• 43:23Alexi Pappas?

  But he means, like, he means well, right?

• 43:26Zach Braff?

  What I wrote, what I, you know, what we, what I cut.

• 43:31Zach Braff?

  I think I did sell that he means well.

• 43:38Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, that's what I mean, is that he means well. And so like to not even give him the like, it's like he didn't need, you had done the task of that character, whatever it is, as a director. And anyway, anyway, I just, it's an awesome story because it must have been so hard to cut something that you had like, put so much time and energy into and shot and like probably felt quite good about it as like an isolated.

• 44:04Zach Braff?

  I knew it was a problem. I knew it was a problem because when you make something, when you make a film, you don't really know what it is until you get in the edit room. The way I think of it is like a scavenger hunt. You go out and you have only 26 days or something on a low budget movie and you're frantically collecting as much as you can.

• 44:26Alexi Pappas?

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:27Zach Braff?

  And it's like, you know, then you run back to the edit room after your 26 days and you're kind of like, what did we get? And then as you begin to shape it, it morphs into something anew. It's not the script that you wrote. It's things, a performance so rises to the top that you go, oh my goodness. I made a movie with Joey King, my film Wish I Was Here. And Joey King, as a young girl, was so extraordinary that my brother and I couldn't help but edit the film to feature Joey more because it was like, the camera couldn't, the camera didn't want you to cut away from her. My point, and then with Garden State, there was another plot line I cut out. There was this, there was this.

• 45:10Zach Braff?

  It obviously became so much about the love story between Natalie and myself. And so as you, you know, often an assembly of everything you shot is three hours long. So as you begin to cut away the clay and go, what is the two hour, an hour forty-five movie I'm telling? You have to make bold choices. And in shaping that, you start to see your story. And in a world where I've chosen this particular sculpture, that intense scene doesn't live in this movie anymore.

• 45:45Alexi Pappas?

  To be able to like see something for what it actually ends up being, right? It's sort of a loss of control a little bit, right? Because you try as hard as you can up until that point to like capture what. You're capturing and so like, what I mean is it seems like a wonderful lesson in like, accepting what is actually true versus like forcing things in life. Cause like sometimes things present to us, right? And they're not what we thought, or they're just different. And like, that's hard for people. Isn't life similar where like, we don't always,

• 46:25Alexi Pappas?

  like how things turn out are not really always how we thought that they would turn out. And like your ability to like, take what it actually is and like, live with it or make it the best that it can be is such an important thing.

• 46:38Zach Braff?

  Absolutely. I mean, I think that's what my last film A Good Person was about. It was about what starts as a tragedy, a horrible car accident, ends up being, ends up yielding one of the most powerful friendships that this woman will ever have in her whole life. A friendship that ultimately in the macro will probably change her life for the better.

• 47:04Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 47:04Zach Braff?

  And it's, and it begins with vehicular manslaughter. I mean, I, I'm, I, I, I think that that's an enormous part of life is, is setting off in one direction and seeing what flowers.

• 47:18Alexi Pappas?

  But most people don't want to do that. Like they don't wanna, like, it's so uncomfortable. Like it's so uncomfortable to not know like where things are going or like how much control you can have.

• 47:29Zach Braff?

  But look what beautiful things have happened to you as an example. You set out to, to, to be an athlete and, uh, and then this led to this, which led to this, which led to this. And now you're doing something that I imagine lights you up quite a bit.

• 47:42Alexi Pappas?

  It's cool. It's cool. It's just like, I think I just, we just have to like surrender that that's normal or like that that's life. Like that is, like if you're opting into life, you're opting into like, accepting that the, the thing that-

• 47:55Zach Braff?

  Loving your fate. That's a, that's a, a more Fati is Latin, which is comes up in A Good Person. But the, the idea of loving your fate, loving, loving what, what is so, what, what happens.

• 48:07Alexi Pappas?

  Hmm. Yes, loving it. Loving is-

• 48:10Zach Braff?

  Choosing it.

• 48:10Alexi Pappas?

  Choosing it and loving it is better than accepting it too. Cause accepting it feels like there's like a-

• 48:15Zach Braff?

  Accepting it is like, fine. Loving it is like, I fucking love this.

• 48:19Alexi Pappas?

  They'll give you a really specific- Like note and you were able to learn a really big lesson. And that is, that feels like a really specific way to mentor. That is super helpful, you know, because it's the opposite of going to class. Because in class, it feels like you learn theories, you learn like techniques, you learn rules. And this was like, you saw it directly applied to something that you had thought of. So it like, it must have resonated more and you must, I mean, those instructions resonate the most, right?

• 48:52Zach Braff?

  Yeah, I said, it continues. Well, that was a huge first example. But then, as my career continued up until this day, I always show him, well, not only do I direct his show Shrinking, but I, whenever I'm working on something, I bring it to him and be like, can I get your advice on this? What do you think? Whether it's a script, whether it's a commercial, whether it's a feature. Because I, I trust his gut and I, and I want to know what he has to say. So the mentorship sort of continues. We've both gotten really into sauna cold plunging because of course it's Los Angeles, why wouldn't we? And so we have a lot of good mentorship sessions in the sauna.

• 49:33Alexi Pappas?

  And a three minute cold plunge as well?

• 49:35Zach Braff?

  We don't talk during the three minute cold plunge. We have a, we have a quiet time during the cold part because we're in pain. But the sauna is where we bond.

• 49:42Alexi Pappas?

  That's awesome. That's awesome. Can we talk more about like believing in yourself? Because like, it's such a like, it's an elusive thing, right? Like people, where do you think for you it came from? And we can, we can like find it. Like, does it, does it just exist? Like, is it just like, I like this thing and therefore I, I'm just, I don't even know if there's an answer to this.

• 50:06Zach Braff?

  I think it really coming from me. I can't speak for everyone. For me, I think it came from parents that, that instilled in me a confidence.

• 50:14Alexi Pappas?

  How?

• 50:15Zach Braff?

  You know, I wasn't the typical kid. I had zero interest in sports, which, which, you know, going to public school in, in New Jersey. That was, that was hard because that's where kids made friends. That was really the social circles. My parents went out of their way to find a community for me by finding a theater camp for me. Because even at camp, summer camp, which was popular on the East Coast, they were all sort of sports themed.

• 50:40Alexi Pappas?

  Yes, that's, that's most camps, right?

• 50:43Zach Braff?

  Did you go to camp?

• 50:44Alexi Pappas?

  Not like East Coast kids did. No, I mean, I went to soccer camp. Like I did that stuff, but it was like. It was like intense soccer camp.

• 50:51Zach Braff?

  Yeah, so this was, these were like, you know, generic camps where,

• 50:54Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Zach Braff?

  where you do lots of things. But my parents found a theater-based one called Stage Door Manor. And I went there and it was like, one of the most epiphanous moments of my whole life.

• 51:04Alexi Pappas?

  How old are you?

• 51:05Zach Braff?

  I must have been like 12.

• 51:07Alexi Pappas?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:07Zach Braff?

  And I just, it was like, it was like your props. It was like Alice in Wonderland. I was like, I had no idea that there was like a world of people like me. It was the first time in my life I really felt um, like I wasn't a weirdo.

• 51:25Alexi Pappas?

  So maybe the belief is like, part the like parental, you know, it's part like upbringing and part exposure to like feeling like there's a world where you could belong.

• 51:36Zach Braff?

  Exactly. I think that's good. I think it was parents, being great parents, saying, let's find community and acceptance for this child. And it, and they didn't know that I would flourish in that world, by the way. They were just being great parents. They had no idea if I was good or not. They were just wanted me to be, be, not feel alone and sad. Because I was a pretty anxious kid. And I think they saw how not only did I flourish there, but how I never wanted to leave. I would felt like I was being pulled out of, out of heaven when I had to leave.

• 52:10Alexi Pappas?

  Right. Those summer camp, those camp, it's like a, any camp experience, but it sounds like especially yours. It's like, you never want it to end.

• 52:20Zach Braff?

  No, also because I realized in hindsight, it, I was, I was a very sensitive kid. I was very vulnerable and there were role models, speaking of mentors, of men who were that way. Who were sensitive and affectionate. And artists. They, they, I didn't have any of that in my real life. I, I had, I had very sort of alpha, jockey, tough guy, men in my life. My father wasn't, but, but I mean, in, in school and in, in my community. And so I think I saw this whole new way of being.

• 53:03Zach Braff?

  But actually, it's funny, it all ties to Scrubs because I, I think the reason JD resonated with so many men was he, he was sort of bringing that to, to primetime ABC and NBC.

• 53:17Zach Braff?

  And that was the first place I saw that it was kind of okay to be who I was.

• 53:21Alexi Pappas?

  The moment that we see that it's okay to be who we are, we still have a choice to step fully into it or not. Like that, I think about often the metaphor or the science of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly.

• 53:39Zach Braff?

  I love that. I heard you talk about that on Rich Roll and it's one of the reasons I wanted to meet you, because I loved that.

• 53:45Alexi Pappas?

  And, well, and that they don't have a choice, but we do, right? So you choose to step forward and say that like, okay, this new universe of people, the way that people carry themselves is like me and I want to be around more and more people like that.

• 54:03Zach Braff?

  And that's not a one-time choice. That's almost an everyday choice, I think.

• 54:08Alexi Pappas?

  Well, that's interesting to me, too.

• 54:10Zach Braff?

  I think every morning it's like, I mean, not that I literally do this, although I probably should, but it's choosing all the time to be fully expressed and fully yourself. Because we constantly want to retreat, in your analogy, back to the cocoon.

• 54:28Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, or back into like a protective personality that we put on to survive.

• 54:34Zach Braff?

  Absolutely.

• 54:35Alexi Pappas?

  Do you, I mean, I want to talk about Bell, I really do, but now that we're talking about like waking up and being whatever, like being the you.

• 54:47Zach Braff?

  More than anything, that's the theme, I think, that's been the most powerful tool is gratitude and appreciation of all the good things that are happening in my life. I think when you meditate on that as often as you can, I literally just set an alarm on my phone. I was talking to my therapist about. How I do a morning meditation about focusing on my day and gratitude. And I do it when I get into bed at night. And he said, why not add a third one? Why not put an alarm on your phone at the middle of the day to remind yourself to take a couple moments and think about gratitude for whatever's been going on in your day thus far? Which is never something I never thought I would do, but

• 55:31Alexi Pappas?

  Now you do it?

• 55:32Zach Braff?

  To please my therapist, I started.

• 55:34Alexi Pappas?

  Well, the middle of the day thing is cool because the middle of the day is when we're like getting blown by the wind that isn't our own, right? Like when you wake up, like the thing disturbing you is like things ahead and like your dreams or something, you know? And then before bed, it's, I feel like in the middle of the day, you can make the most, you can pivot the most.

• 55:52Zach Braff?

  And I've never really heard about that. And all the, all the people I've heard talk about gratitude and meditation and the like, the idea of stopping in the middle of the day and being like, okay, how's today going so far? What can you focus on positive that's happened? What's, what do you have to be grateful for? You know, I don't know. I don't know if I'm able to keep it up, but I'm, I'm, I'm trying.

• 56:14Alexi Pappas?

  I wonder if your days feel longer too? Like if you break it up in the middle?

• 56:17Zach Braff?

  Well, it's not very long. No, it's just a matter of taking a few minutes to be like, close your eyes and focus on how lucky you are to be alive and healthy and that your, your, your body, to have a soul, to have a body, to, to be able to afford to eat, to have a house, to have a roof over your head, even the most simplest things, to have people in your life that love you. It helps you just reframe any, any stupid stress that you're, that you're having.

• 56:45Alexi Pappas?

  Where all you have are shin splints and everything else is

• 56:47Zach Braff?

  All I have is shin splints that you'll, I'm like, help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope because

• 56:51Alexi Pappas?

  I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna help you. No, I meant that it might make your day feel longer because you could have like two different kinds of days. Cause if you like take the reset, you can shit, right? Like you're not, what I mean is it's like, this is why I love production days too, because the lunch break, you're actually like just supposed to chill and like you're not supposed to keep plowing through

• 57:12Zach Braff?

  You know about changing your socks, right?

• 57:14Alexi Pappas?

  No, tell me, I wanna learn everything from you.

• 57:16Zach Braff?

  This is very important because you're also very into socks.

• 57:19Alexi Pappas?

  Because I, yes, I like sock, I like, who doesn't like a good pair of socks?

• 57:23Zach Braff?

  But don't you, aren't you like into socks?

• 57:26Alexi Pappas?

  Uh.

• 57:26Zach Braff?

  Or maybe you just have sock partnerships.

• 57:29Alexi Pappas?

  Let's, I have sock partnerships, but we don't lead all the readers into believing I'm into socks, because that will lead them to believing that I'm into feet, which is not a path that we want to go down.

• 57:38Zach Braff?

  She's not into feet.

• 57:38Alexi Pappas?

  Um.

• 57:41Zach Braff?

  I think it was Sidney LeMay when he was asked, uh, what's your best advice for directors? It was change your socks at lunch. And, um, it's true.

• 57:52Alexi Pappas?

  Why?

• 57:52Zach Braff?

  Well, by, by the time six hours have rolled by, if you're a director, you've really sweat a lot and you're walking around in damp, gross socks. And there's something about at your lunch break, which is a half hour, an hour, depending on the production, of going somewhere, hopefully you have at least a tiny six by, by four trailer cubby, if, if anything, but wherever you, whatever you have, even if it's just a, a chair on the side of the road, um, there's something about changing to fresh socks and dry, clean, tight socks that feels like a reset. And when I read it, I was like, that's funny, but I'm going to try it just for the fun of it. And it, it really, it really does something. Maybe it's psychosomatic, but it feels like, okay, new chapter.

• 58:37Alexi Pappas?

  It's also invisible to everybody else. Like, I feel like if you came out with a new shirt or sweatshirt, it'd be bizarre, it would be, it would be outward facing.

• 58:44Zach Braff?

  Right.

• 58:45Alexi Pappas?

  But the socks is for you.

• 58:46Zach Braff?

  Nobody knows, and it's just you. And there's just something about like, it, it gives a little psychosomatic newness to the second half of the day. That's the best director advice I can give you.

• 58:56Alexi Pappas?

  It's helpful to me because it's, um, an action I can do.

• 59:00Zach Braff?

  Yeah.

• 59:00Alexi Pappas?

  I have like so much trouble receiving advice where I'm like, I don't know what to do with that if someone's like, believe that, like, I, I don't know, the stuff where I don't know what I can, how I can move forward and actually do it.

• 59:13Zach Braff?

  Well, it's funny, you talking about mentors, because that's about your, your show. And I jokingly, but not really jokingly, said to you that Rich Roll's a mentor of mine.

• 59:21Alexi Pappas?

  I know.

• 59:21Zach Braff?

  Because it's not, not that, you know, Rich and I are friendly, we don't see each other that often, but I, I get so much mentorship from listening to his show. I learned so much about what type of person I want to be, and I find it very aspirational. And, and I'm sure I'm not alone, otherwise he wouldn't have the, the huge success he's had. So I feel like. In, in, I don't know if you can call that mentorship.

• 59:46Alexi Pappas?

  You can. I think mentorship should be able to be direct or indirect. Because otherwise, like if you can't absorb it like the sun, if you need to be touching it, that's so inaccessible. Like who can't, you can't guarantee that you can be talking to the people who you look up to, but you can still pretend they're talking to you.

• 1:00:04Zach Braff?

  Right. I like that. I didn't know if you were specifically focused on mentors who are physically in your life, talking to your face.

• 1:00:13Alexi Pappas?

  Definitely not. I mean, that's like, that's a dream, but you just, you have to be able to like get what you need for yourself from the world around you, even if you can't, you know, be in the room with them.

• 1:00:28Zach Braff?

  Yeah. I've gotten a lot of help with that. A lot of, a lot of um, positive changes in my life have come out of listening to podcasters who, who I, I feel are putting a lot of good, positive energy out into the world. You know, I was sober curious for a long time and it was one of Rich's guests that kind of put, Rich sent me a specific podcast and he's like, "Listen to this." And it really helped me change my entire relationship with alcohol. Um, because it was what I needed to hear so beautifully articulated. And there's, and there's so many examples of that where I, I hear something

• 1:01:12Zach Braff?

  and you know, it's not something my therapist said, it's not something a friend said. It just, it's, it's Rich having the expert on this specific topic on to articulate it in a very conversational, layman-friendly way. And it just, it lands.

• 1:01:29Alexi Pappas?

  You know what's interesting is, one of the things that I remember as a 14-year-old most striking me about Garden State was your ability in that film to capture that there aren't words for everything. You are very selective about when you use dialogue and about how you use things besides dialogue to show how people feel.

• 1:01:52Zach Braff?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:52Alexi Pappas?

  Right? And at that age, like we don't have all the words. We don't know all the words. We don't, we feel things that we don't know the words for yet. And um, it's, it's so interesting to hear you talk about now, like hearing words that like, that's, that click for you with these podcasts.

• 1:02:10Zach Braff?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Alexi Pappas?

  Do you think that the podcasts? Are affecting you because people find words for things that you don't have words for?

• 1:02:17Zach Braff?

  Yes, I think that's, that's true. I think that I have a feeling and I feel, I think, I feel alone in having that feeling.

• 1:02:27Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Zach Braff?

  And then very articulate people are saying, hey, you're not alone.

• 1:02:35Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Zach Braff?

  A lot of people are dealing with this. And interestingly, here's some information that you would never have known because you're not going to read the book, you're not going to take the college class. Here's a very charming person to break it down in a conversational way.

• 1:02:52Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Zach Braff?

  Which is really new to my world. And I know podcasting in general is, is new to, to earth, but I, I, I find it, I go on a hike, I, I, or I'm driving in my car and I, um, this stuff really lands in, in powerful and in in actionable ways for me. And I hear people and I go, I want to, I want to live like that. I want to be that kind of person.

• 1:03:15Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah. And it's fun to be interested in people, right? Like, it's fun to be like, people have something to offer people.

• 1:03:20Zach Braff?

  Yeah, there's a quote I heard once that was, um, if you want to be interesting, be interested.

• 1:03:26Alexi Pappas?

  That's what, I took one advertising class in grad school and they said, be interesting and interested. That was like the thing, but what you said is better.

• 1:03:34Zach Braff?

  I like the one I heard better.

• 1:03:35Alexi Pappas?

  I like yours better and I'm gonna update mine.

• 1:03:37Zach Braff?

  If you want to be interesting, be interested.

• 1:03:39Alexi Pappas?

  Yeah, that's, uh, that's good.

• 1:03:42Zach Braff?

  Because so many people, when you're talking to them, um, aren't listening. They're scanning, this happens all the time, I'm sure to you, where you're talking to someone and you can feel that they're scanning your story for something that's happened in their life that's relevant, that they can then take over the conversation.

• 1:04:01Alexi Pappas?

  And share. Well, related to that, someone told me that you can't have like a connected conversation with someone if you only ask questions, like if you never offer your perspective or if you only offer your perspective, so if you only do what you just said, because then you're not, there's not like a tenant, you're not really playing tennis with them.

• 1:04:24Zach Braff?

  It's a dance, but, but my father used to, I remember my father used to always be someone who would be like, tell me more about that. That's so interesting. And so your mother, you know, he would, he would lean in and be so interested in people.

• 1:04:38Alexi Pappas?

  He did that.

• 1:04:39Zach Braff?

  He definitely did that. And I find it so refreshing when people do that because we're used to someone like, you tell me an anecdote about your mom and then I go, my mom, she da-da-da-da-da-da. I'm less like, people I find are less likely to be like, so your mom, tell me more about that. She, and what was that like? I mean, it's just something you notice. And when you're aware of it, you see like, while you're telling your story, you'd be like, oh, I can see their eyes. They're scanning for their related anecdote. And then, oh, they're gonna pivot to their story. We're not gonna talk about what I just shared. I'm very aware when the rare thing happens

• 1:05:23Zach Braff?

  that you're in a conversation and the person leans in to ask more questions about what you just said and doesn't pivot to their opinions, perspective, truths, history about that topic.

• 1:05:39Alexi Pappas?

  Thank you so much, Zach. I'm super grateful.

• 1:05:41Zach Braff?

  Thank you. You're incredible. You're an inspiration and I can't wait for you to solve my shin splint issue.

• 1:05:47Alexi Pappas?

  We're gonna solve it. It's not, it's the, it's the most classic textbook adorable thing to feel as an aspiring hiker, jogger that you are.

• 1:06:00Zach Braff?

  Yeah, I don't wanna run. I can't run like you. But I would like to be able to hike multiple days in a row without going out my shins.

• 1:06:06Alexi Pappas?

  Oh, that's, that's very possible. You should be able, you should see yourself, you should believe that you're somebody who will be able to hike every day.

• 1:06:15Zach Braff?

  Do I need to put that cool tape on my shins?

• 1:06:17Alexi Pappas?

  No, you don't. That tape is like-

• 1:06:19Zach Braff?

  I just wanna thought I might look cool if I put that on.

• 1:06:20Alexi Pappas?

  You can.

• 1:06:21Zach Braff?

  I see you runners with all that fancy tape.

• 1:06:23Alexi Pappas?

  The KT tape. This episode brought to you by-

• 1:06:26Zach Braff?

  This episode's brought to you by KT Tape.

• 1:06:27Alexi Pappas?

  Cheers to Zach!

• 1:06:29Zach Braff?

  Which I'm gonna put all over my shins, even if it's wrong.

• 1:06:32Alexi Pappas?

  Oh my God. You're so honest and forthcoming and, um, and thank you for helping me work through a few things. Cause there's some times where I'm like, I see something in my brain, like, cause I'll go from like, I'll go from like story to meta, you know what I mean? In my brain. And you're very, you're very patient with me.

• 1:06:48Zach Braff?

  I think you're a natural. I think this was the best episode we've done so far.

• 1:06:51Alexi Pappas?

  Yes, it was our best episode. It was our best conversation.

• 1:06:55Zach Braff?

  Are we done?

• 1:06:59Alexi Pappas?

  If you're enjoying Mentor Buffet, follow Voicing Change for more inspirational and truly life-affirming content from shows like Soul Boom, The Proof, Feel Better Live More, and the Rich Roll Podcast. Just go to voicingchange.media. That's voicingchange.media for a beautiful selection of productive and positive shows.

• 1:07:26Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as The Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review

• 1:08:08Rich Roll?

  and/or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated, and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, The Meal Planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Dan Drake. Portraits by Davi Greenberg. Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate

• 1:08:53Rich Roll?

  the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Blinds.