Postcards From Paris: Elizabeth Beisel, Katie Hoff, & Chris Morgan

Direct from Paris, Rich joins 3x Olympian & NBC correspondent Elizabeth Beisel, 2x Olympian & former RRP guest Katie Hoff, and former Swiss Olympic Swimming coach Chris Morgan for a roundtable on the swimming competition, what it's like behind-the-scenes at the games -- and tons more. Watch on YouTube Browse all episodes of The Rich Roll Podcast at: https://www.richroll.com/all-episodes/ Meal Planner: For customized plant-based recipes 👉meals.richroll.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors 👉 richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 0:14Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. We have a very special edition of the show today because I am in Paris and I'm joined by an illustrious group of amazing individuals to share dispatches from the streets of the city of lights and kind of share what's going on in this very special city right now. To my right, I've got the wonderful Katie Hoff, friend and friend of the podcast. You know her, two-time Olympian, eight-time world champion. And we are also joined by the amazing Elizabeth Beisel, three-time Olympian, who is here in the capacity as a correspondent, covering the swimming on the deck, talking to the swimmers.

• 0:58Rich Roll?

  Thank you, guys, for being here.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Stoked to be here. Yeah, pumped to be here.

• 1:02Rich Roll?

  Thanks for having us. I know. Yeah, it's very exciting. And I've got my buddy, Chris Morgan, here as well, who I've known since like 1994. We go way back. Chris was the head coach at the 2008 Beijing Olympics for Switzerland, also assistant coach at Harvard. And you're here doing correspondence for French television, covering swimming as well, which is exciting. So we're going to talk about swimming. We're going to talk about what it's like to be in Paris and all the good stuff. I feel very honored to be with all of you today. But I thought we could begin with just like a vibe check, like, what's it like to be here right now, you know, like in this city while all of this stuff is going on?

• 1:43Katie Hoff?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:44Rich Roll?

  Who wants to start?

• 1:45Katie Hoff?

  I mean, I'll say this is my first time back at the Olympics in 16 years. So it's kind of like a really big deal for me to be back and be in the energy and genuinely feel really at peace and excited. And I told someone yesterday, it's the first time I've really been able to look at the Olympics and look at being an Olympian. And be like, wow, this is really cool. And I know that sounds crazy, but I'm like.

• 2:14Rich Roll?

  Because when you're here competing, your blinders are on and you're just so focused on your goal. You're not able to actually take the whole experience in.

• 2:22Katie Hoff?

  Correct.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  I want to piggyback off of that moment because I've been at the pool nonstop. It's like, this is my first time out of the pool. So I feel so, I'm like, oh, my God. I'm actually embarrassed. Like, I'm just on a classic like swimming trip. It's like hotel pool, hotel pool.

• 2:39Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  So this is awesome. But the first session of swimming, to your point, I was watching warm up and I was like, these are the best swimmers in the world. Like, how lucky am I to be watching these best swimmers in the world? And then I went to thought number two and I was like, oh, that was me.

• 2:57Katie Hoff?

  That was you.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Like, wait, that was, I'm sorry, what? Like, and Rich, you were so right. Like, you have the blinders on.

• 3:04Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  You never appreciate what you did while you were an athlete. So for me, similar to you, it's been so cathartic to kind of appreciate what I did in my last chapters of life as an athlete and now try to do them justice and give them everything that they deserve as now on the broadcast side of the sport, but also appreciate like, that was me.

• 3:26Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  My God, I worked hard. You know, like, I was good, which you would never say as an, at least a swimmer.

• 3:33Rich Roll?

  But to have that perspective.

• 3:34Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 3:34Rich Roll?

  You know, that can only come with time, right?

• 3:37Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 3:38Rich Roll?

  Because there's so much pressure when you're an athlete. Like, you can't let your guard down too much.

• 3:43Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 3:43Rich Roll?

  And your life is very restricted, right? You're in the village and I'm sure there's a lot of fun shit happening there, et cetera. But you're at the village, you take the bus to the venue, you do your thing and you go back and you're going to bed early and like the whole deal, right?

• 3:57Katie Hoff?

  You're not appreciating, at least I didn't until now.

• 4:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Rich Roll?

  What about you, Chris?

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, it's really interesting, just, and we were speaking before, being, being an American and being, you know, a patriot, but living, living abroad for 15 years and now. Being able to speak French and kind of hear the whispers in the corridors of what the French people are feeling and thinking about this, it's pretty neat, you know, because you get a little insight to maybe something. And French people are, they're very emotional, they're very, they like to, they like to talk. So it's neat to hear that. And in addition to being at the, with the French TV, I'm also over at the Oli House, which is the Olympic, the World Olympians Association. So there's all kinds of people and they love swimming. Like everyone, like last night, you know, after the finals, people are watching the

• 4:45Speaker 03

  replay of the finals. Like swimming is the thing this week. So it's really neat to see everyone and talking to the people in line that are just, don't know swimming, but they're there to support their country. So.

• 4:56Rich Roll?

  Right. So we're, we're recording this on Monday. What is the date? The 29th. So last night was a big night at the pool for France because Leon Marchand won the 400 individual medley. And that is like, not a small thing to do that in Paris with such a young, talented, like up, up and coming, like rising star in the sport.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  I think two of the best 400 climbers here.

• 5:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know, right?

• 5:19Speaker 03

  Probably for them, you know.

• 5:20Rich Roll?

  You guys know a little bit about the 400.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  I've done a couple of them. Between the two of us, too many. But no, your, last night was, were either of you guys at the pool? I wasn't. I know you weren't.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  You were at the pool.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  It was maybe the loudest arena that I'd ever been in. And it was every single stroke that Leon took. The breaststroke was like. The breaststroke was nuts. And even Leon said it himself, like, just for somebody to peek at an Olympics that is being hosted on their home soil, like, that has got to be one of the most incredible feelings. Like, we never had a home Olympics. No. Unless we, I guess we could come back for that way. I mean, my God, is it too late? We got four years.

• 6:01Rich Roll?

  It's a whole new world, you guys.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Listen, I swear, when I'm at that pool and I'm watching, I'm like, you know what? Could I? Yeah. I get that, like, sneaky little thought.

• 6:10Rich Roll?

  You look at the times, you're like, I think so.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  I mean, when Katie and I were going, we'd still be up there.

• 6:16Rich Roll?

  It's competitive right now, right?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  We could be on the podium. And, but then I also have the thought of like, well, I know what the four years look like. And.

• 6:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Maybe I'm tapped out. Yeah. Especially the 400 I am.

• 6:28Rich Roll?

  Well, give people a sense of what that four years actually does look like. Cause I'm not sure. I mean, people understand, like, elite athletes at that level, they have to live this monk-like existence. But.

• 6:41Rich Roll?

  In particular with respect to swimming, my sense is that it's really kind of at a different level, right? The monk-like existence of being a swimmer, especially in an event like the 400 IM that is so, you know, demanding and rigorous, like, what does that life look like?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  You go.

• 6:57Katie Hoff?

  Oh, I mean, it's non-stop, like, not only physically, but you're just thinking about it constantly. I feel like the only reprieve you get is maybe on a Saturday afternoon, because then Sunday, you're like, I Monday morning practice and I'm thinking about it again. And so, it's so funny, like, even people here, they're like, "Oh, are you still competing?" And I'm like, standing there with a cocktail in my hand, I'm like, "Do you think that's how it works? Like, you're out with a drink and I'm, "Oh, I'm competing tomorrow." So, it's, I mean, it's for four years, it's non-stop, and then I think a lot of people also think, like, "Oh, well, it's every four years." Like, you have benchmarks, you have world championships yearly, so you come back from the Olympics and you're leading into the next quad, you're preparing for world championship trials in eight months.

• 7:41Katie Hoff?

  There's not really, the train doesn't really stop on the road to the next Olympics, and so, for me, it was just all-consuming, all the time, how am I gonna get better, you know, what am I gonna do with my body, what am I gonna do with recovery? So, it's just, it can be overwhelming.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then that event, the 400 IM, it's like, there's obviously different ways to train, and we'll get into the nitty-gritty of that in a minute, but the 400 IM, which is the event that Katie and I swam, is kind of the decathlon of swimming. It's like, for those that are just like swimmer-friendly or swimming-friendly, it's 100 fly, 100 back, 100 breast, 100 free, so 100 of every stroke, and it's grueling. And you have to train like a distance swimmer in order to be good at this event, and it's relentless, it never stops, whereas, and I'm not saying like, one event is easier than the other, but one event is a little bit more sustainable than the other. So, like, swimming a sprint event, like a 50 free or 100 free, you can probably push into your 30s and still be at the top of your game at the Olympics.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Whereas, I didn't see a single 30-year-old plus in that final last night in the men's, and there certainly won't be in the women's. And I think it's cool, because the body is so interesting. But goes back to our point, it's like, yeah, I would love to swim in LA at a home Olympics.

• 8:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 8:58Katie Hoff?

  But in the form did I am?

• 9:00Rich Roll?

  In the back of your mind, could I pull this off?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm like, you don't know if you don't try it. I'm not saying it's gonna happen at all.

• 9:07Katie Hoff?

  But I mean, the amount of times we've looked at each other in a ready room and been like, oh, my God. You know, like, what do we call it? Form did I am stomach? Like, it's just like so grueling and you you know what you're in for. You're like about to go to battle and you're like, this is about to be, I'm about to be in so much pain, whether it's a good race, a bad race and middle of the road race. It's just gonna be really painful.

• 9:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. What is it like in that green room environment right before you walk out for a final? And everybody's sort of sizing each other up. There's definitely like a tension or an intensity in the air. Are people playing mind games with each other? Are you just focusing on your own race, like visualizing it? Like, what does that, what did that look like for you guys? And what do you think, what is, what is going on when you see, uh, you know, visuals of that, you know, at this meet in particular?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  I would say that room separates the good from the great. Cause that is where it's like all about the mental game.

• 10:01Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Cause every single athlete at the Olympics is physically prepared. The hay is in the barn, the work is done. But those few minutes leading up to a race where your mindset is either I'm gonna kick ass and this is mine. Like, come and get it. Or you kind of crumble under the pressure of this is my once every four years chance to make a name for myself, to get sponsorships, to feed myself. Like, I think that's maybe one thing that we can dive into is just like, swimming is awesome, but it does happen all year round, not just once every four years. But we make negative dollars swimming, like, like, none of us are really in it for the money. But when money comes around, it's crucial to kind of capitalize on that.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  And so in the ready room. All of these things are lightly in the back of your mind and it's up to you to like, where are you shining that flashlight? Are you shining your flashlight on the negative thoughts or the positive thoughts? But I think I always was so comforted when you were in a ready room with me because I knew we were always on the same wavelength.

• 11:05Katie Hoff?

  Same page.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Same page. We knew it was gonna suck.

• 11:08Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, we didn't even have to say it.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and this is one of my best friends. Like, of course, we both want to win, but a win for Katie is also a win for me. And I think that's something that Team USA does. Like, we have a really great mindset in terms of that, but...

• 11:21Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting to see, like, when I watch it on TV, like, the different personalities, because everyone's gonna handle it differently. Like, you have the people that are more showboating and that's their way of showing their nerves. You know, like, I think Lily King told the story of where she just stared at Efenova, like, stared, like, stood behind her and just stared until she made eye contact with her.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  I believe it.

• 11:44Katie Hoff?

  Like, I could never do that. That would not be my way. There's, then there's the people joking around and, like, you saw Ledecky and Titmus, like, smiling and talking with each other. And then you have the people that are just like blank staring down. So it's interesting to see how people show their nervousness. And I don't think there's one good way or the other, but it's finding how you let the nerves out in like a positive way and not just sit there and get to the dark side.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:08Rich Roll?

  But I think all of those signals are very subtle in swimming.

• 12:12Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 12:13Rich Roll?

  In comparison to track and field. Like, I was watching the Olympic trials for track and field and, um, you know, Noah Lyles comes out and it is pure theater.

• 12:22Katie Hoff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:23Rich Roll?

  Like, it's a performance art.

• 12:24Katie Hoff?

  I actually met him yesterday.

• 12:25Rich Roll?

  You know, he's got the kit dialed and he pulls out the Yu-Gi-Oh! card and shows it to the camera and he's doing a dance. And then before the finals, walking out with Snoop Dogg in his, like, you know, suit and he's got the metal, uh, briefcase and it's gonna be the big reveal. I mean, this guy has thought through every... And it would be one thing to do that and not perform, but to do that and then win, like, that's what gets the average person, like, excited about a sport that they might not be that familiar with. And I think those athletes really understand it, whether it's Sha'Carri Richardson or, you know, or Noah and some of the others. Other people and I feel like we could use a little bit of that in swimming. Like it would be fun.

• 13:04Katie Hoff?

  Lily King kind of is that.

• 13:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:06Katie Hoff?

  For us a little bit like she loves, you know, she was like doing the finger wag and like, I think that's also why she received so much negative feedback because the swimming world wasn't ready for it. They were like, wait, you're talking smack and you're doing all this stuff. Like we don't, we don't have people like that, but I think we should.

• 13:23Rich Roll?

  Well, we did at one time. I mean, Chris and I come from the generation where Gary Hall Jr. is coming out doing the boxing and the Muhammad Ali and he's draped in the robe and like.

• 13:31Katie Hoff?

  True. That was oh four. That's true.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we need, we need, I think we need a little injection of, of that. We're all just goody two shoes. We're just brown nosers.

• 13:40Katie Hoff?

  We're all friends and we all love each other.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  But I, I so, you know what? I so agree with that because like being here with NBC, it's tough because, and I'm, I'm guilty of this, you're guilty of this. Like we do not allow ourselves to be accessed by the media. We as in when we're athletes, at least 72 hours before we start competition as swimmers at the Olympics. And I'm like NBC is kind of like, can't we get access to these athletes? Like we want to tell their stories. We want to showcase them. Like this is the once every four years, to your point that they, we get to kind of tell these stories and show these people what they're made of and how exciting it is. And it's, I don't, I don't know when it's going to change. I think swimming is

• 14:26Speaker 01

  always a little bit far behind, but like I'm interviewing some park skaters.

• 14:31Katie Hoff?

  The day before their race.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  Or their race, their competition.

• 14:34Rich Roll?

  Their competition.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  And they're like, yeah, what's up? Like we're gonna.

• 14:38Rich Roll?

  Did you see the clip where the, the skateboarder's bus broke down and then they all just got out and said, no worries. We'll just skate there.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  We're gonna skate to the rink. Yeah.

• 14:46Rich Roll?

  That is like pure gold.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:47Rich Roll?

  Stuff like that, those moments.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  That's, and, and I think that's where swimming needs to shift towards. I think it's definitely going to move at a glacial pace. But I do think the more like pomp and circumstance we get is better.

• 15:02Rich Roll?

  Chris, from a coaching perspective, back to the ready room, kind of green room. Like, what is the counsel that you give your athletes or have given your athletes at a heightened experience like the Olympic Games to get their heads straight so they don't get freaked out?

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, I tapped into a lot of what my mentors taught me. And, you know, you gotta, you have to adapt to their personality, the athlete. I mean, I know Elizabeth, when she's in the ready, I mean, she's pretty giggly. And then what we didn't talk about is the famous, the Phelps face, right?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  Because when that happened, and that was in, I think it was in Rio in 2016, and, you know, that became like Jimmy Fallon was talking about it, you know, everyone.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  So many gifs, so many memes.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  It was great for our sport, you know, to have the Phelps face. And, but, you know, when you know Michael, as we all do, the Phelps face, right?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  So, but I think it was just teaching them what, based on their personality, and certainly calming the nerves. Ironically, just this morning before going in, I had a nice cafe au lait and was sitting next to David Berkoff. And I said,

• 16:04Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  "How is she?" And he said, "She is nervous, but..." And there was the "but." And it was really interesting to hear from father, coach, Olympic gold medalist in the same event. And then she qualified first this morning. So, you know, even what is a coach, father, counsel, you know, basically, it's just, I think it's just calming, calming the soul, right, of that athlete. And with one of, you know, an athlete who I worked with in 2008, Dominique Maichri, who in the pre, in the ready room before his prelim swim, when he qualified first, I mean, he was like Elizabeth, he was kind of laughing and, you know, moving around, chatting people, "Who's this Swiss kid?" Right? And then he qualifies first. And then that created a whole nother cinema after with some of the American coaches I know. But, yeah, I think really, it's just, and we're nervous as coaches, right?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Some of the personalities of coaches like Dean Boxall, the coach of, I mean, I love it. Like, I just love watching it, just because he's going nuts in the stands, right? It looks like he's at a rock concert. And then there was a famous French coach named Philippe Lucca when he was coaching Loire-Mannadou, you know, back in 2004. I mean, he was like, straight face and scary, right?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Remember the chains he would wear?

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, the chains, still wears, right?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, still wears.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  You know, and I think that persona, that personality of the coach can also help, right? Like, maybe it's helping, I don't pronounce her name, but Ariane.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Ariane.

• 17:23Speaker 03

  Ariane is probably part of her vibe in the ready room comes from Dean, right? So I think we as coaches need to also be not only mentors and soothe our athletes, but also be aware that our personality can affect what the media thinks, what other people think, what other swimmers think, what other coaches think.

• 17:41Katie Hoff?

  And how their athletes feel.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, right? I'd be fired up, I'd swim for Dean.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  You mentioned Dave.

• 17:47Katie Hoff?

  I couldn't do it. That's not the right energy for me. Like, I wouldn't, I would need someone.

• 17:52Rich Roll?

  Dean is the Australian coach.

• 17:54Katie Hoff?

  Yes, of Ariane Timas, yeah. I just think.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Maybe I'd just go to a rock concert with him.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm just saying, like, I don't want that.

• 17:59Rich Roll?

  Because, for people that aren't steeped in swimming, why, like, what is it about his disposition?

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Oh, he goes, what would you say, Katie? He's going nuts.

• 18:08Katie Hoff?

  He goes bananas. Absolute bananas.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  In the stands with all the.

• 18:14Katie Hoff?

  In the stands, which I kind of just want it to be about Ariane.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  True, yeah.

• 18:18Katie Hoff?

  You know, like, I feel like, at that point, it's about the swimmer, and I just feel like I would want it to be about the swimmer. And I think the cameras always go to him. So that's my only thought on that.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  That's a good point, yeah.

• 18:29Rich Roll?

  You mentioned Dave Berkoff, former world record holder in the Hunter Backstroke, sole 1988 gold medalist. Did he win the gold?

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Silver individually and gold in the relay.

• 18:39Rich Roll?

  Gold in the relay, right. Pioneer the underwater dolphin kick back in the day, before they had the 15-meter rule, and he basically swam the entire 100 meters underwater. But he was really at the forefront of pioneering what is now, you know, basically what everyone does, which is work on their underwater dolphin kick, because it's so much faster than it is swimming on the surface. But. What people who don't really follow swimming closely might not know is that this incredible champion who went to Harvard, his daughter is now on the Olympic team qualifying.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 19:15Rich Roll?

  For first finals this evening, which is kind of an amazing thing.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  Is it her first time under 50 yet? I'm not sure, but it's a good time for her.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, great time. And I actually got to speak to her after the race and I was like, holy shit. She was like, I don't know where that came from, but it felt amazing.

• 19:30Katie Hoff?

  Oh, that's the best.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  And that's like, those are the best because that's that confidence boost that you need at the biggest event of your life to know like, oh, I got it in prelims. Like, I'm only going to get better from here.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Especially when dad said she was nervous a couple hours before.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Right. Easy speed. We love an easy speed morning.

• 19:46Rich Roll?

  Explain what easy speed is for people that aren't swimmers.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  It's just like, you know, when you go on a run and you just get that like runner's high and it's just easy and you're like, oh, I could keep going. It's similar to that where you just don't ever tire out and you just feel at ease the entire race. Never happens for us.

• 20:01Katie Hoff?

  I was gonna say, I don't think I ran a marathon and I never got the runner's high.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, I was promised this.

• 20:09Katie Hoff?

  I was promised this runner's high, but I have felt easy speed in swimming. I feel like it's like, yeah, you're, it feels effortless and then you come into the wall and the time is way faster than you could have ever imagined. And so just everything, it's like, what is that? Flow state.

• 20:24Rich Roll?

  It's like the athletic version of a flow state.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  And I think some swimmers say after is that's when they think, man, I should have gone faster.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yes. And it's like, I don't know if you could have.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:36Rich Roll?

  But swimming is weird because, because I think what, what people who aren't swimmers have a hard time understanding is that, is that the best swimmers know how to make the water work for them. So it's not about fighting the water or muscling your way through it. It's not about like, you know, just like churning and burning as hard as you can. It's about like this, this ease that you feel when, when you're making the water work for you. And, and yeah, and it feels like, oh, I could have gone faster, but, but had you kind of tensed up and tried to make that happen, you actually probably would have gone slower.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:09Katie Hoff?

  I have, like I've done that like in a prelim and been like, oh my gosh, that was so easy. And then I worked a hundred times harder at night and went like a tenth faster, but could barely get out of the water. Like it's the most, I think it's one of the most frustrating things in swimming.

• 21:35Rich Roll?

  Speaking of Australia, let's talk about the Australia-US rivalry. There's been a lot of press, a lot of ink spilled about this rivalry. It's legendary in many ways. And it was sort of heightened in the wake of the Australia and USA Olympic trials because there was some smack talk around the whole cowbell thing. So for people who don't know what that is, maybe one of you guys could take a crack at just explaining that.

• 22:03Katie Hoff?

  You want me to try? All right. So I'll just say, I actually don't know if you and I, Missy and I talked about this. I don't know if you and I agree on our thoughts on this. So I'm very curious to see.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Rich, you're welcome. House divided here, I see.

• 22:19Katie Hoff?

  I don't know.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  All right. So here's what happened. The skinny is Kate Campbell, who is a multiple-time Olympian for Australia, made some comments back in the spring about how she just hated how many times she had to hear the National Anthem at the last Olympics and the last World Championships, how we ring an infernal cowbell, which was her words.

• 22:41Katie Hoff?

  Infernal.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Infernal cowbell. And it's like a tradition. Like when we send our athletes off to the ready room right before their race, we ring a cowbell, we chant USA, we'll chant Katie's name, whatever it is. It's just like, we're your hype squad. Like, we want you going to the ready room feeling loved, feeling supported. And basically, once she made those comments, they went viral. And that's when a lot of the US swimmers, like Michael, like a lot of people...

• 23:08Rich Roll?

  There's videos of Michael holding a phone, watching this to gauge his real-time reaction to this. And you mentioned Phelps' face, right? Like, he's just like, oh, this is a gift.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like, if Michael were still swimming, game over.

• 23:25Rich Roll?

  He's not even swimming, and he's like, fired up.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  So he's like red. Okay, wait. So now I want to hear your opinion, and then I'll give you mine.

• 23:32Katie Hoff?

  So I, I guess I just feel like it's been, first of all, this happened last year. Like she was interviewed almost a year ago and then it kind of made this resurgence. And I just feel like, and they haven't done it as much as I thought they were gonna do it, NBC, which I'm glad, is because I feel like the people commenting on it and the people that have issue with it aren't competing. And so I feel like it's cloud, it almost, I was worried and they haven't done it, that the storyline was gonna cloud everything else, like the coverage of the swimmers. And I just felt like it was blown way out of proportion. That is my opinion on it.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  I don't disagree.

• 24:06Katie Hoff?

  Okay, okay.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:07Katie Hoff?

  Um, and I, so that, that kind of annoyed me. I'm like, don't pull this out of proportion. Kate Campbell's actually friends with a lot of the US swimmers. And like, yes, she made that comment, but if you watch her follow-up interview, it wasn't, like, she's like, no, like, part of it was just like joking around, like that's how the Aussies talk.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  She's cheeky, yeah.

• 24:24Katie Hoff?

  She's cheeky, yeah. She's like, I, she's like, I guess the US doesn't have a sense of humor. Like, she was kind of just trash talking, but we've been trash talking with the Aussies for decades.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:32Katie Hoff?

  So I just felt like, I was like, okay, it doesn't need to be so heightened, but that's just my opinion.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  No, and we love the Aussies, that's the thing.

• 24:38Katie Hoff?

  Love the Aussies, yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Like, they're our best friends on the pool deck.

• 24:41Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  At least when we were swimming.

• 24:42Katie Hoff?

  I have a tattoo with one of them.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, literally, yeah. Literally the person that you raced in the 400 IM, you are best friends with, have a tattoo with them, like, that's the swimming world. Um, whereas like, maybe in other worlds, it's not the same.

• 24:53Rich Roll?

  It's hard to hate a culture that loves swimming so much. And you go to Australia and it's just all about swimming there.

• 24:59Katie Hoff?

  It's the best.

• 25:00Rich Roll?

  And it's a really beautiful thing, but I love the rivalry. I vividly remember the, the, the Australian relay with Michael Klim and the guitar.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, the guitars.

• 25:10Rich Roll?

  And that kind of stuff, like, it's the real, it's the relays where, you know, this all really kind of comes out. And we got to see it the other night with the men's four by 100 relay with, which USA won, and then the women's version of that, which Australia won. So this is like keeping that tension and that rivalry.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Keeping everything in check.

• 25:28Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, oh yes, yes. It's alive.

• 25:31Rich Roll?

  But what is it like, like, on the deck with the swim, when you're, when you're, I mean, you're there, like, seeing it all, like, firsthand as it's unfolding in real time?

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like any normal meet that we, like, the Team USA warm-up area. In the back pool, which nobody really ever sees, is pretty close to the Aussies. And it's like, business as usual, like cowbells, Team USA cheers, like, we're not changing anything. But like, I'm in the mix zone, so I get all the athletes when they walk by me. And like, I'm saying good job to all of them, like, they all deserve a good job. So I'm like, if Caitlin McEwen's gonna walk by me, I'm gonna say, dude, that was an awesome swim. But um, there's like, there's always a rivalry, whether it's USA versus Australia, or Great Britain, or China, Russia, whatever. But I do, I mean, I love the story for how long it goes back, especially like to 2000 Sydney Olympics. Like, it's fun, and I appreciate a good rivalry.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  But I think people need to also understand is like, yes, on paper, huge rivalry, but in person, homies.

• 26:32Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Like, friends, hanging out, like, it's, it's, it's not, there's no animosity.

• 26:38Katie Hoff?

  I think that's my issue with it, maybe I am too goody-two-shoesed, and I should be more like, yes, let's go.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Lady Switzerland over here, she's okay with that.

• 26:48Katie Hoff?

  I just, I just.

• 26:48Rich Roll?

  You're literally Switzerland.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are Switzerland.

• 26:51Rich Roll?

  I would still take a side now, I would still take a side. So, uh, if you don't know, Elizabeth is the person who is on deck, uh, who's grabbing the interviews with the athletes. Like, essentially, right after they finish, like, so if you're watching the coverage on, on Peacock or NBC, um, and some swimmer has just won a gold medal, and you did this at the Olympic trials as well, you're the first person that they're, that they're talking to, basically, before they even get to see their friends or their coach or anything like that. And it's always hilarious to me, because there's, even if it's just the 50 free, like, they're so winded, you know?

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I know, I know.

• 27:27Rich Roll?

  They're not ready to talk to anyone yet, and your job is to like, get something interesting out of them immediately. And as somebody who's a podcast host, I'm like, How do you think of, what's the right question to ask? How do you come up with this? And you know, how do you, what is your strategy for getting something compelling out of these athletes in the immediate, like I'm talking immediate aftermath of them having like, you know, done something magical?

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's definitely a privilege to be in the seat that I'm in. And I'm sharing the position with Melissa Stark. So I'm doing the prelims, she's doing the finals and we'll switch like I did a few finals last night. But um, it's one of those things where I've been in the athlete position so many times. I want to do them right and not ask them a basic question like, how does it feel to win a gold medal? Like, can we put some effort in, please? So what I'll do is like, I'll learn Katie Hoff's story, like what sets her apart, what's different about her? I'll learn her personality through scrolling through her social media or watching previous interviews that she's done. Like, I just, I want to be so prepared and make them feel like, oh, this person actually

• 28:32Speaker 01

  cares about me and my swimming and you'll always get a better interview. Like, if you showed up to this unprepared, like, it would be fine, but it wouldn't be great. And so for me is like, a lot of these people are also my peers. So I also respect them so much because I'm friends with them. And I do think there's an element of, like, I might have kind of an edge on everybody else just because I have that rapport with them. But there's, there's a lot that goes into a two to three question interview. And I love it. Like, I want, and here's the thing about swimmers, and I, I make a conscious effort in doing this in every interview that I do, regardless of who it is.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Swimmers are so humble, they hate like, talking about what they just did. Like, if Katie Hoff breaks a world record and I'm the first person to interview her, and I just started off with something basic, like, tell me about that race, which has happened to us far too many times.

• 29:28Katie Hoff?

  You're like, ah, did you watch?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, and you broke a world record, but you would never be like, breaking a world, like, you would never bring it up. So my thing is like, Katie Hoff, you just broke a world record, like, the up, the last three years have been so up and down for you, like, I kind of like, tee them up? Just so they don't feel like they have to boast about themselves? And maybe that's me projecting, but um, I love it.

• 29:51Katie Hoff?

  You're like the ultimate hype girl.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  I know, I'm like, we should be hyped. Like, this shouldn't be a basic interview. Like, my God, I'm talking to you before you're talking to your wife at home, like... I better do you justice. So that's and like

• 30:04Rich Roll?

  Well, you got the right energy.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  You have to.

• 30:06Rich Roll?

  You're coming in hot.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  I do. I do. Sometimes when I get the more like quiet introverted ones are like,

• 30:13Speaker 01

  it was good.

• 30:14Rich Roll?

  Maybe not like rowdy energy, but like you're, you know, like rowdy is on a whole different level.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Oh, he's like 10 octaves above his normal talking voice. Like, he's the best.

• 30:23Rich Roll?

  Let me, maybe we can go around to each of you. I'm curious, uh, which story, and it doesn't necessarily have to be swimming, but maybe it could be swimming. Like, what's the story that has you the most excited, but one maybe that you feel like isn't getting as much attention? Like, not the one that's the headlines, but like, man, this story I think is really cool over here. I want to draw people's attention to it. It could be an athlete. It could be, you know, is there anything that comes to mind for that?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  It's a tough one. I'm thinking more about like, maybe not a particular athlete, but what happens behind the scenes for these athletes? And, and I know that it's like circulating around social media, but I don't think the gen pop really understands like, these athletes are on an hour and a half bus ride to the pool and then an hour and a half bus ride back. Oh, and then they do it again for finals. So they're on a bus for six hours a day at the Olympics. The food in the village is not amazing. Um, like, I know you love to talk about fueling and just like what you're putting in your body. You're expected to compete at the highest level you've ever competed at, and they're running out of food or

• 31:35Rich Roll?

  Oh, is that true? Are they? Oh, really? Oh, I didn't know that. They're running out of food?

• 31:38Speaker 01

  See, that's why we're here, Rich.

• 31:40Rich Roll?

  Amazing.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Like, one of the athletes

• 31:42Rich Roll?

  Not amazing, but

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, not amazing, but

• 31:44Rich Roll?

  Amazing from a story perspective.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Right. And, um, like one of the athletes I was talking to on Team USA the other day, um, they got back from finals, which in Paris time are late because we're trying to cater as much as we can to East Coast prime time. So they're getting back to the village around 1:00 to 2:00 AM. And the only thing left in the village cafeteria was bread rolls and sardines.

• 32:07Katie Hoff?

  That's insane.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  And that's, and that's what these athletes are feeling themselves on.

• 32:12Rich Roll?

  And then they have to get up at what time to get to prelims and then, you know, in the morning.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Prelims are at 11, so they're a little later, but still you're up at seven activating, eating, like waking up. So I think like that's a story.

• 32:25Rich Roll?

  They're on that, those cardboard beds.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  I hear they're not the worst.

• 32:28Rich Roll?

  They're not. There's been a lot, a lot of TikToks and a lot of videos made about that.

• 32:31Katie Hoff?

  A lot.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that like maybe isn't getting told on broadcast. Yeah, because you know, the, the literal motto of the Olympics, I feel like is expect the unexpected.

• 32:44Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's so different than trials. Like I think like for me, like I saw in the exact same schedules in 2008 at Olympic trials and the Olympics, but the Olympics was so much more exhausting because not only do you have the transportation, but like you're getting, like for the distance swims, you're getting blood tested. So they test EPO. Like that's a whole nother factor. Like, you know, because you hate needles, but like there's so many factors at the Olympics that are added on that don't happen at the trials that I think, at least from my experience, I didn't factor in because how do you know until you're there?

• 33:17Rich Roll?

  And if you're succeeding and you have a packed schedule because you're doing multiple events, on top of that, there's all these media obligations as well, right? So you're doing interviews and interviews and interviews. So that's cutting into your rest and recovery time as well.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Which is crucial. I mean, you know, as a coach.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely. And I think just talking about what you said, even with Team USA is, you know, without mentioning a name, and I'm, I applaud the people who made this decision for one of our, the US top swimmers is they're now in a hotel across the street.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  Just to make things easier. You know, even one of the, the US open water swimmers, I know it's like, it's a grind, right? They're trying to just train, still train, get the training in, but come watch final. I mean, it is brutal. Brutal.

• 34:02Rich Roll?

  Speaking of open water, how are we feeling about the send? No bueno.

• 34:07Katie Hoff?

  I know. It doesn't. I was looking during opening ceremonies, I was like, wait, so all these boats, are they not ejecting pollution into the Seine? Like, didn't they just clean it and now they're polluting it again?

• 34:18Rich Roll?

  But it's not the entire Seine, there's that one section that I think they're trying to keep clean for the purpose of doing a loop for the open water swimming for the triathlon. And it seems to be a very fluid situation in that every day they're testing it. They put a lot of money into like some filtration thing and these bypasses and stuff like that to clean up this historically very dirty river. And they had gotten to the point where it had passed enough tests like, you know, two weeks ago, that the mayor and a select group of people like jumped in, there was a lot of media around that to prove that it was clean. And then it rained like two days in a row and then it wasn't clean.

• 35:01Rich Roll?

  And that was the day that the triathletes were reconning the course. And they were then told like, no, you can't get in. So, so I think it's a day to day thing, whether it's going to be clean enough for that. If it's not, then the triathlon becomes a biathlon, which would be really tragic.

• 35:17Katie Hoff?

  Oh, my God.

• 35:18Rich Roll?

  Because they can't change the rest of the course. The open water swimming, I think they have a backup plan to move it somewhere else. They have a backup plan.

• 35:25Katie Hoff?

  Oh, that's good.

• 35:26Rich Roll?

  But yeah, it's this day to day thing. And I think it opens a broader conversation around just Paris in general and for people that aren't here, what it's like to actually be here. I think there is to this, to this idea that maybe there's some misconceptions, like the athlete village isn't like in the city center. It's like, it's, it's sort of distant and away. It's not like you walk out of your dorm and you go across the street to the pool, like it's these long bus rides. But in the city center, particularly like in, on the, the north side of the Seine, it's incredibly quiet, like.

• 36:02Rich Roll?

  The streets are empty.

• 36:03Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Rich Roll?

  And there was a sense like, oh, Paris is going to be overrun, it's going to be mobbed, it's going to be impossible to get around. And I've been here for two weeks and it's been an absolute delight. Super easy to get around, no crowds. And so I don't know if that's going to change because we're still just a couple of days into the Games. But you would almost have, like, if you're a kilometer north of the Seine in one of these neighborhoods, you might not even know that the Olympics are even going on. It's like business as usual. It's strange, right?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  It's so, I mean, where swimming is, I mean, I took a metro to get to where we are right now to record. It was only 30 minutes, but we're north of the Seine and it's in a place called La Defense. And it is just like people, I'm right at the subway or the metro station and people are coming and going from work. Like, it literally is just a normal day. And like, of course, there's crowds outside of the arena when the swimming is happening. But otherwise, Rich, I totally agree. I am, I am a Parisian person now. I know my way around the city. I've got my coffee shop.

• 37:10Rich Roll?

  I feel like I live here.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  I know. I'm like getting better at French. Not that great.

• 37:14Katie Hoff?

  The way you just said that sounded so fancy.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  La Defense, sorry, no, oui oui.

• 37:19Katie Hoff?

  Yeah, I feel like, because I think about Beijing or even Athens, and it was just like, it was very clear that the Olympic Games were there. There were boards up, all these things. But yeah, I feel like I woke up for a run yesterday morning and I'm like, where is everybody? It's like 8 a.m. right now. What's happening?

• 37:35Rich Roll?

  It is a later kind of city. It was Sunday morning. I had the same experience though. You're like, wow, it's like a ghost town. But the Olympics are happening here, right?

• 37:44Katie Hoff?

  I know. I know. It's kind of nice, though. I feel like they've done a great, and maybe it's intentional and we're all thinking that it's just happenstance, but like, it's really nice that it's not. I also don't feel like we're displacing the people, which I always feel like happens at the Olympics.

• 37:59Rich Roll?

  Although I think part of the reason it feels empty is a lot of Parisians just got out of town.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Oh, they're probably Airbnb-ing their flats.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  They are. So just having lived here or in Europe for 15 years, know a lot of Parisian people and even have a friend who lives like right next to the start of the open water swim, if it happens. And he's like, come over, we'll have some drinks, we'll sit on the balcony and watch. And I'm like, You know what, rather than using the credential, I think I'm gonna go sit on the balcony

• 38:24Katie Hoff?

  It sounds

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Have a couple cocktails and watch the

• 38:26Speaker 01

  A thousand percent, and you'll probably have a better view

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have a good view

• 38:29Rich Roll?

  Did you guys, sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead

• 38:31Speaker 03

  I think one thing that's really interesting just about being calm is, you know, not to bring it up, but if you really look, the number of police, gendarmes, and other countries is formidable

• 38:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Is the word I use

• 38:45Rich Roll?

  There's a lot of

• 38:46Speaker 03

  And walking around with, you know, literally, and not to bring it up, but just, you know, with guns that are ready to be

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Finger on the trigger

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Finger on the trigger

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Ready to go

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Literally

• 38:57Rich Roll?

  I would agree with that, but I would provide a caveat, which is, yes, there are clusters of security everywhere you go, they sort of gather in groups of four or five, whether it's gendarmes or, you know, military, but it doesn't, I don't have the sense that it's like a high alert situation, like they're kind of like joking and they're very approachable and you'll see this like, like really cute young woman and she's got, you know, she's like in her, her, her like, you know, uniform and everything like that, and you're like, oh, how nice, except, you know, she's, she's carrying a gigantic rifle

• 39:35Speaker 01

  A gun the size of her

• 39:36Rich Roll?

  I don't have the sense that like they're ready to shoot anybody, you know, it's just like, it's like, it's a sense of like

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Yeah

• 39:41Katie Hoff?

  Protection, like I feel, I actually, which sounds weird, like I walked past like 12 of them last night, I'm like, I feel protected, I feel at ease, which is a weird feeling when you walk by that many guns, but I'm like, I feel like they're, they're all so friendly, like they're all so nice, I'm like showing them

• 39:57Rich Roll?

  I was like taking photos with them, like the first day I got here and I went on a run, I ran by Notre Dame and there was a whole bunch of them and they were like, hey, hey, hey, and I thought I was like in the wrong place or I was in trouble, and they're like, no, we, can you, will you take a photo of us or whatever, and then I took a selfie with them

• 40:11Katie Hoff?

  Oh, that's awesome

• 40:12Speaker 01

  I want to say something actually about the people of that are here in Paris. Like, I think there's such a stereotype of, oh, Parisians absolutely hate Americans. I have had such a wonderful experience and like, I've definitely tried. Like, when I go into a coffee shop, like, I do try to order in French. They know immediately I'm not.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  But just the effort.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  But I think the effort, like, really goes a long way. And I've had, like, I cannot wait to come back and, like, play tourist. Because I love this place. Like, it's been amazing. Yeah, everyone's helpful.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  We stereotype, and having, again, lived.

• 40:50Rich Roll?

  You've lived, you know, here for a long time.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  And, you know, when foreigners come to the US and growing up in the Bay Area, it's like, you don't speak English? And, but they're trying, right? They're trying to speak English to have a thick accent. And I think, you know, and this might sound horrible to say, but I think, I call it innocent ignorance of most Americans. And having now lived, all French people want is that you just try. And then if you don't try, they're like, okay, okay. And then they'll, and then they'll speak their best English. So, yeah, Parisians are great.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  They're great. They're kind of like New Yorkers, but they speak French.

• 41:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I love it and have a great time. If anything, like, I speak to waiters and restaurateurs and stuff like that, and they're experiencing, like, a downturn in their business. So, it's one thing if you're in one of those protected zones close to the river, where they're kind of really trying to keep people at bay. And there's been a lot, like, a lot of people are like, you know, you can't do anything in Paris. Like, you see on social media, it's like, you can't move around, it's terrible, it's the worst thing ever. It's not really true. It's, you're minorly inconvenienced, but if you are a business owner in one of those zones or approximate to one of those zones, you're suffering. But even in the neighborhoods, like, around where we are right now and north of the Seine, they were expecting to be, like, overrun with business.

• 42:03Rich Roll?

  And, and it's like, yeah, it's like, not really. So I don't know whether that's... A pure attendance thing or what's happening, but and I've never been to an Olympiad before. So I don't know by comparison.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  This is your first?

• 42:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Oh, I did not know that.

• 42:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  That's really cool.

• 42:17Rich Roll?

  And the irony is that I'm running around doing all kinds of stuff like this that I'm, I'm, I'm less apprised of what's actually happening in the competition than I would be if I was sitting at home watching it all on television.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Are you going to get to go to anything?

• 42:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm going to be going, I'm going to swimming and track and field. You guys, I'm trying to get a ticket for tonight. I still haven't been able to get one.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  For swimming?

• 42:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:39Rich Roll?

  We can pull some strings. Maybe, anyway. We can pull some strings. We'll talk about that later. Anyway, um, yeah, but I am, I am going to be, you know, attending some events. I just haven't been able to yet, so can't wait to do that.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  I think it's like, you know, the stands are full, right? Swimming, it's packed.

• 42:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can't get tickets. It's sold, the tickets are sold out.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  For everything.

• 42:56Rich Roll?

  So it's not like you're, yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  I went by on the way to swimming last night and saw archery and it was packed.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Like for women's, I mean, and it's not anything negative about women's archery. Koreans won as usual, but then the, the Mexican team got third and they were going, it was awesome. I think they were like taking tequila shots on the street.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  As they should be, as they should be. That's amazing.

• 43:34Rich Roll?

  One of the things that I think is really cool about this Team USA and swimming is that it is an interesting mix of veterans and up and comers. It's not dominated by all new people and it's not dominated by the stars we've always known. It's like this hybrid, right? So you have Caleb Dressel and you've got, um, Ryan Murphy and you've got Katie Ledecky and these people that, you know, have been around for a long time. And then you have all of these new names and to see them together on relays and, you know, kind of the mentorship of the old guard with the new people coming up, I think is really cool. I don't know, is it always that way? This feels like. It feels a little bit different in that regard.

• 44:18Katie Hoff?

  You can speak to it better because you were actually at camp, but from an outsider looking in, it looks like the team looks like it has way more chemistry than when I was swimming. Yeah. It feels like there's more like we're going to help each other versus we're in tunnel vision and we're all out for ourselves.

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  For our own individual.

• 44:37Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do think that that's been a cultural shift for sure.

• 44:41Katie Hoff?

  For sure.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  And you, I mean, for the listeners, I'll brag on Katie, like her first Olympic team, she was a fresh 15 year old in 2004.

• 44:48Rich Roll?

  Well, both of you were 15 when you made your first Olympic team, right?

• 44:52Speaker 01

  We're talking about Katie here, okay?

• 44:54Katie Hoff?

  No, she's like, basically what she means like fresh 15 is like super naive and homeschooled.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  No, I meant you just turned 15, you have an early June birthday, whatever.

• 45:03Katie Hoff?

  Six months after that, but okay.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Anyways, I think there is something to be said for like being a 15 year old on a team with a bunch of 20 something year olds and like, how do you relate to a teenager that doesn't even have a license and like make them feel welcomed? And I think that happened enough times in a row with you and me and Ledecky and Missy that like we kind of adopted these teenage kids, like literal kids.

• 45:30Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Onto the team and it helped shift the culture and like even Michael in 2000, he was 15.

• 45:36Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  So I think we had a run of like four Olympics where we always had a 15 year old on the team. And I do think that helped the cultural shift to where we are now where it's like, we don't care your age, we don't care where you're from, like you have a seat at this table at the Olympic team and we're going to make you feel like you belong here. Cause I know you and I definitely did not feel like we belonged.

• 45:56Katie Hoff?

  No, we just felt almost like ostracized like a little bit. Yeah. So I feel like now, and maybe it's social media, but just like watching like camp and watching them all do their TikToks and like, I just feel like they're all having so much fun and it's not just like these segregated cliques.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I agree.

• 46:13Rich Roll?

  Speaking of TikToks, my new favorite Olympian is this female rugby player, Alana Mar. She is a superstar.

• 46:22Katie Hoff?

  She's hysterical.

• 46:23Rich Roll?

  She has exploded. I don't know how many. Instagram followers she had before the Olympics, but she now has like over like 1.3 or something like that.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  I saw that. Yeah, she crushed a million.

• 46:31Rich Roll?

  A couple of days because she's making these amazing videos and like my daughters are like, you gotta see this woman.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:36Rich Roll?

  Everybody's talking about her. Like, it's such a cool thing for, uh, for an athlete in a sport that probably doesn't get enough recognition or ink or attention to come in and then like just, she's so made for these videos, right? And it's like telling these stories from the village. She's so funny and fantastic.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  The villa.

• 46:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Have you seen, you know who I'm talking about?

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, it's fantastic. It's, we need somebody to do that for swimming. But again, back to the earlier point we made, like, no swimmer's gonna be doing that.

• 47:08Katie Hoff?

  Like right before, I know, I know. And like, and why are we like that? Like, is it, I feel like there's such a stigma of like, well, if you, if you're focusing on TikTok or if you're focusing on posting on social, that somehow detracts from your focus, which I, maybe for some people, but I actually don't, I think it is fun.

• 47:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't like the idea that athletes should feel pressure to use social media. Like, isn't that, isn't it enough that they're trying to be the best?

• 47:35Katie Hoff?

  For sure.

• 47:36Rich Roll?

  What they do. Um, and I think there is that sense like, oh, if you want to have a career, not only do you have to be the best at your sport, you also have to be broadcasting all this stuff all the time.

• 47:46Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 47:47Rich Roll?

  But I think for the right personality type, that person who's just, you know, constructed to be in, in, in extrovert in that way. And it's just kind of funny and entertaining. Um, the sky's the limit. Like if you're, if you're looking for, you know, every, like Olympic athletes, I don't think most people realize like, you know, they're not, they're not getting paid like, you know, except at the highest level, like, you know, they're working jobs to try to make it all work and, um, and it's hard, right? And here is an opportunity for that right personality type to kind of create their own future by the use of this thing that we all have in our back pocket.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:22Katie Hoff?

  Kind of for the first time. Like, I mean, they, uh, USO, USOPC has a program I'm part of is like the USA creators. And they're bringing over people from TikTok and Meta, like, Never been done before. And I just think it's incredible because we can collaborate with these TikTokers, with these people who have millions of followers and it's only going to elevate the Olympics. But I know there's like, there's varying opinions on that of bringing over someone who knows nothing about the Olympics, knows nothing about these sports, but I kind of love it.

• 48:50Rich Roll?

  And there's a lot of rules. Let's just leave it at that.

• 48:52Katie Hoff?

  There's a lot of rules.

• 48:53Rich Roll?

  There's a lot of rules about what you can and cannot say.

• 48:55Katie Hoff?

  Yes, yes.

• 48:56Rich Roll?

  That we're all sitting here very conscious of.

• 48:57Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Rich Roll?

  Because we're trying to chat openly.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  What's interesting is I don't know about you guys, but 2008, we were all there is that's where I signed up for my Facebook account. That's at

• 49:07Katie Hoff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  In the Village. And so now you think we're 16 years later.

• 49:10Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  And It's a whole, it's a whole new world. And these kids, I don't know how old Thomas, I'll slaughter his last name.

• 49:16Katie Hoff?

  Hyman.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  Seventeen. Seventeen. Okay. Well, so even what he was one, right? When we were there. So

• 49:22Katie Hoff?

  Thanks, Chris.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Well, I know.

• 49:24Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. That's why they're like, wait, who are you?

• 49:26Speaker 03

  We're a lot older than the two of us. But yeah, how, and what we were talking about before and not to is how do these young kids, and then how is it affecting their training, right? Like, why aren't they TikToking and everything before when, you know, when you ladies were training your asses off at that, at that age? And, you know, as the training probably has changed for

• 49:47Rich Roll?

  The training has changed. That is something maybe, I don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole now, but the training has changed a lot, at least in swimming from your day to now.

• 49:57Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 49:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Katie Hoff?

  I feel like it's a, it's a, it's a hot topic. I mean, I think you look at someone like Michael Andrew, who kind of kicked things off in, what year was that? Like 2013? It was like, yeah, 2012, 2013. It's called ultra, it has a ultra short race pace training for people who don't know. And essentially just like, you're basically going fast all the time. It's not as much volume. And I feel like there's, we had them on our podcast and there was varying, there's varying philosophies and opinions around that. But I feel like we have shifted towards more of a focus on power explosiveness sprint. And that's kind of cascading throughout the nation. And so, you know, for the 400 AMers, for the distance swimmers, I still think

• 50:44Katie Hoff?

  at the tippy top, those people are doing those things. I just think there's less volume below, which, you know, it's, it's a funnel of, and we don't feel like we have the same level of volume where club teams are doing the crazy 10,000 meter workouts that we used to do.

• 50:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 51:00Katie Hoff?

  That's my opinion. It's

• 51:01Speaker 01

  I think another perspective on this, and I agree with everything, is I think the powers that be want to help grow this sport. And people like, everybody nowadays has a very, they have very short attention spans. And watching a 50 is a lot more entertaining than sitting down and watching a 1500.

• 51:22Katie Hoff?

  Yes.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Which takes 15 minutes. So I think there's almost like a cultural pressure to start training for the shorter events because it's more fun. We're gonna add the 50s to the Olympics and World Championships and have these mixed relays, which yeah, is great for the sport, but to the detriment of the distance events, which Katie and I used to swim. I mean, we're not, Katie still has the American record in the 400 IM from 2008.

• 51:49Rich Roll?

  It's insane.

• 51:50Katie Hoff?

  16 years old.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I can't either. People like, they're like, wait, you still do? I'm like, I know. Like, I don't, I don't, and we're not, yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Even more reason for the comeback, even more reason to protect the record.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Protect the record, Katie Hawk 2.0. And that is not a knock on the current athletes.

• 52:09Katie Hoff?

  No, not at all.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  So in distance events, but I just do.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  It's a compliment to her and her training.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  It's a compliment to Katie and her training. Like, that is like how far ahead of your time you were. And there of course are people putting in the work, getting their asses kicked every day. But I do think we're, those numbers are dwindling and the numbers are growing in terms of like, oh, like being a sprinter sounds a lot better, like more longevity in the sport, probably make a little bit more money, more of a big name. So it's interesting.

• 52:37Katie Hoff?

  Yeah. That's actually a good point of like the recruiting factor of like, you know, you're bringing in like 10, 11 year olds, you're gonna join swim team. What sounds more appeasing, 10 400 IMs or 10 50s off the blocks?

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Oh, and by the way, you'll be on every relay and you'll win all these medals and you're gonna be the who's who.

• 52:53Rich Roll?

  As somebody who was in the sport in the late 1980s.

• 52:59Rich Roll?

  It was all about volume.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:04Rich Roll?

  It's just how much volume can your body handle? So we would do at the most intense periods of the year, like we're 20,000 meters a day, long course, et cetera. And you would just be exhausted. Like my entire, from age 15 to 21, I just walked around in a fog, like overtrained, completely exhausted. But the whole idea was beat your body up as much as you can. And every, it's not like, there was no periodization. You just go hard and, you know, every set, every day and every workout.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 53:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah, maybe you get one morning off a week or something and then you roll the dice on a two-week taper and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And I think we saw massive, massive explosions in, in world records, setting aside the tech suit stuff, when some consideration went into the explosiveness, explosiveness off the walls and generating power and acceleration. And all, I think all of those things really advanced the sport. But to your point, both of you, it's a pyramid, right? And at the base of that pyramid is, the foundation is like an endurance aerobic base, right? And that only comes through putting in a huge amount of volume.

• 54:12Rich Roll?

  And then you, as you move up the pyramid, then you get into the specific power and acceleration and, and, and strength kind of stuff. And it sounds like maybe you're saying it's tipped a little bit towards that and maybe it'll find its balance point. But when you think, when you look at the times and you're like, it used to be every Olympic trials or every year even, like just world records are getting broken all the time. And that seems to have balanced out. And maybe that's just because human performance is getting closer and closer to, you know, the peak of what's possible, but maybe not. And maybe it does have something to do with the way coaches and the sport itself is like thinking about training and competition. I don't know.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, and I think, you know, and we, we talked about it, you know, I, I don't, and I, and I say this again with a lot of passion, I just think the kids are not as tough as they used to be and it's not.

• 54:59Rich Roll?

  Ooh.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Oh, you're so hot that's sending.

• 55:02Rich Roll?

  Shots fired, Chris. Yeah, like.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Bing bang.

• 55:05Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  It's not their fault.

• 55:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 55:07Speaker 03

  But you know, I think. Comments are comments for you. They can comment.

• 55:13Rich Roll?

  Old man, grandpa.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  What's he know?

• 55:16Rich Roll?

  Get off my lawn.

• 55:18Speaker 03

  The old curmudgeon is, and especially with Elizabeth, I know the work she put in with, you know, two of her coaches, Greg Troy and Chuck Bachelor. That is hard work. And this, we talk about the physiology, we talk about the physical part, you know, the explosiveness, but there's a psychology and you just need to be tough, especially for the event they swam.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Grippy.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  You cannot just do USRPT and then bust out an American record and break Katie Hoff's American record. You can't, you have to work, you have to put in work.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  So, again, that's not, it is maybe some shots fired, but I just think, but I think it's because we've, we've, you know, we've all, like I said, I signed up for Facebook, I don't even use it in 2008, but now, you know, kids can, you know, they do their whole, I mean, everything is so much easier.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  You see the highlight reels only, yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 56:07Rich Roll?

  The other thing that is newer or newish, I think, is awareness around mental health issues. Like, there was no tolerance or room for that conversation, maybe until just the most recent Olympiad. But now it's sort of accepted and embraced to kind of own the issues that you're going through and to take a break when you need to take a break without like risk of whatever. But, and this is something Mike Gervais talks a lot about, we, we talk about mental health or we think about it in the context of something being wrong that needs to be addressed, in other words, like a crisis or a down cycle, as opposed to the flip side of mental health,

• 56:50Rich Roll?

  which is optimizing it for performance, right? Like, just like the physical body, the mind and your emotional and, and psychological state can be honed for heightened performance. And so, it shouldn't be thought of as a, as a pejorative, it should be thought of just as, you know, in the same context as we think about physical training. So, how do you guys think about that? And what is, with your, you know, being on the deck and being at the pool and around all of these swimmers, like, what is that conversation around mental health like at the moment?

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, Katie and I, my first Olympic team in '08, her second, we didn't even have like a sports psych with us, like, that was...

• 57:31Katie Hoff?

  No.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Like, what? I don't, what, why, why, why would I need that? And then it wasn't until, I think, 2016, we, as in Team USA, traveled to the Olympics with a sports hike. And that's kind of at least when I started noticing the conversation picking up a little bit.

• 57:48Rich Roll?

  But was that, sorry to interrupt, but was that about like, well, if something's wrong, you go talk to them? Or is it like, go talk to them to like elevate?

• 57:55Speaker 01

  No, there was definitely still the vibe of like, oh, like if you go talk to whatever his name was.

• 58:01Katie Hoff?

  Freaking out.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Like, ooh, he's on a good place. You know what I mean?

• 58:06Katie Hoff?

  He's going off the deep end.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  And it's like, no, it is the, I mean, we can beat this horse, Deb, but it is the same thing as going to the athletic trainer and being like, hey, my shoulder hurts, can I get ice? But like, I don't even think we're still quite there yet with the mental side of things. But I do think at least this Olympic team, like, being at camp, which we kind of referenced earlier, I was in Croatia, leading up to these games with the swim team for a few days, just seeing how they were, the vibe, and they just felt like good, home, at ease. And I think a lot of that has to do with taking care of the mental side. And like I said earlier, those 10, 20 minutes before your race, that's make or break.

• 58:46Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  And if you can't handle those 10 to 20 minutes, you need to figure out why. And somebody needs to help you to do that.

• 58:53Rich Roll?

  Or if you think you've got it handled, but maybe there's another level that you can get to.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Exactly. And why not explore that?

• 59:01Rich Roll?

  It doesn't have to be that there's something wrong. It's like, how can I actually improve?

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. I mean, you have been on your own journey. So I would love to hear like.

• 59:09Katie Hoff?

  Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like it's almost like, I use the example of like soft tissue work foam rolling. Like for me, when I was swimming and now, like, I try to do it every single day, regardless of whether I'm, I feel sore or not. And I feel the same way about like. Even if you're having the best week ever, you still should be going to your therapist because you know, and I think that now, like every single person, athlete I've talked to, it's become just a normal like, yes, I have therapy on Thursday. And like, it's just this like, it's as common as brushing your teeth now.

• 59:38Speaker 01

  It's amazing. Cause why would you not want to take care of your mind?

• 59:41Katie Hoff?

  Why would you not want to take care of your mind? So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely jealous because I feel like I, yeah, I didn't have that when I was swimming and it wasn't supported. And now it's just this common thing. And I'm, I'm hoping that not only does it help the athletes leading into the meet, but also their longevity in the sport, their, the way that they look back on the sport. Like I'm 16 years removed. Like I wish that I was in Rio and you know, like coming back to the sport sooner. And I think I'm hoping that these athletes will have this positive relationship with their sport because they have the mental side down.

• 1:00:16Rich Roll?

  I heard, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in the Olympic Village, there's like a meditation mindfulness room, like a space for that.

• 1:00:25Katie Hoff?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. They had it at trials.

• 1:00:29Rich Roll?

  Oh, they did?

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. They had like a mindfulness room and it was, it was actually beautiful. They had like greenery and like dimly, I think they had red lights. Like it was just like a very chill vibe to kind of, did you see it?

• 1:00:41Katie Hoff?

  I didn't.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  It was like right near the warm up pool and I, it was called like the mindfulness area. And I was like, this is amazing. Like even just a place to just like be quiet and get ready for your race.

• 1:00:54Katie Hoff?

  Didn't they have emotional support dogs too?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Katie Hoff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  At trials, they had emotional support dogs, like puppies.

• 1:01:00Rich Roll?

  Who doesn't like a puppy dog? I'm up to, my grandpa and like, I'm like, really? Like, part of me is like,

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  like, come on.

• 1:01:07Rich Roll?

  Really? Like, you're like, you need an emotional support dog? That's not even your dog?

• 1:01:13Katie Hoff?

  Stop it, I do. Stop it.

• 1:01:14Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  So I don't know on the village, but we'll check on that. Like that would be, I mean, I have yet to see anything like that at the pool.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  But that would be cool if it was actually in the village.

• 1:01:25Rich Roll?

  I'm sorry, I'm like imagining like

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  He's still on the puppies.

• 1:01:29Rich Roll?

  An athlete walking out for finals, but

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Walking their dog up to the block.

• 1:01:32Rich Roll?

  Having their emotional support dog on a leash. That's how we do it.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Hey Bentley, wait here.

• 1:01:36Rich Roll?

  In Los Angeles, Elizabeth will be walking up to her comeback with a dog. I find myself lining up with Chris on like, we just need to get a little bit harder. You tipped over the other end.

• 1:01:47Katie Hoff?

  Well, that is, that is the question, though, like, when, I think it's swung the other direction of like, we need to find a happy medium, like, nerves are good sometimes. Being uncomfortable is good sometimes, and it's a hard thing to talk about because what's the, like, how do you tell a young person what's tipping over the edge to be negative and what's not?

• 1:02:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, amazing. We're gonna have to wrap this up in a minute, but before we do that, what are you most excited about right now? In terms of like, what's unfolding, the stories that are unfolding, what we're about to see, what's happening?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  I think for me, living my life at the pool, I'm kind of like you, I'm in my own bubble, I only know about swimming right now. Don't ask me about another sport, I won't know. But I think the youth of our team is looking really good heading into a home Olympics. And that's what I'm excited for, is like, of course, I'm excited to see what the rest of Paris has to unfold, but I've already got sights on LA 2028 and like, home Olympics, you see Leon Marchand win the 400 IM last night in front of a home crowd. That's gonna be us, as Americans.

• 1:02:53Rich Roll?

  SoFi Stadium.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  In SoFi Stadium, and I get chill, like, I literally have chills right now.

• 1:02:57Rich Roll?

  It's crazy that the pool's gonna be in SoFi.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  In four years. I know. And like, who's it gonna be? It's, it might be somebody that's on this team right now, that like, maybe is making the final, maybe not, like, maybe just a name that we don't even talk about on this podcast or broadcast, but like, given another four years, they're the it name. That's what gets me excited.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  What about you, Katie?

• 1:03:17Katie Hoff?

  I would say it's been really cool to be at Team USA House, which is where basically the family and friends can all gather. And they do this thing every evening where they have, you know, you win an Olympic medal and you go in and you, it's called the Order of the Echos. And so the athletes actually are able to recognize the people and person who really made an impact to get them on the podium. And I just feel for the athletes how cool to be celebrated live with their family and friends. And I feel like that's something that we didn't really have. And so watching that happen, it happened to Cook and Bacon after winning the first medal of all of Team USA. And they got to stand up there and everyone erupted and appreciated them.

• 1:04:01Katie Hoff?

  And I just think that's like, gonna be really cool to see that unfold.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  Cool. Chris? Wow. I mean, just like Elizabeth, I think going into a home Olympics, you know, again, having a little bit split, having spent a lot of, third of my life in Europe, living there. You know, just the new names and, and kind of seeing some normalcy come back to the Olympics. I'm a fan of the Olympics. And, you know, from, from Rio to, you know, Tokyo, it was, you know, nothing to do with Tokyo. And it's unfortunate because I don't think Japan got its fair, fair shot to really put on a, a really, you know,

• 1:04:32Katie Hoff?

  They did not.

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  Postponer for a year. Right. But just some normalcy and, you know, of course, there's a lot of stuff in the media about, you know, about USA and, you know, things that, whatever. But, you know, that they're gonna not host the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake, whatever. But I think seeing some normalcy and I will say a little plug for LA 28. We have a former swimmer who's kind of the big boss there with Janet Evans. So it's gonna be really neat. And that's our generation. You two are a little bit too young, but you know, John Moffitt's involved.

• 1:05:00Katie Hoff?

  Oh, we love John Moffitt.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  Stanford guy.

• 1:05:04Katie Hoff?

  I'm sorry, we didn't even talk about this. Oh, I'm gonna text. We have to take, yeah, we'll take a picture and send it to John.

• 1:05:12Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Yeah, I mean, I'm just delighted to be here as somebody who's been a fan of the Olympics for as long as I could remember, back in the days when we had a monoculture and everything stopped when the Olympics were on and everybody was watching. Yeah. You know, the world's very different now, but that Olympic spirit is alive. It's such an honor and a privilege to be here and to get to talk to people like yourselves and to, you know, bear witness to such a beautiful event. I mean, in a culture that is, you know, feels fractured at times, this is something that can unite all of us, and I think that's something that we need right now. And I think so on a broad, general sense, that's what excites me about the Olympics. And of course, then there's just all the stories. Like, what

• 1:05:55Rich Roll?

  I get excited about are the unknowns that come out of nowhere that you're not following, and suddenly something amazing happens. And, you know, it wouldn't be an Olympics without that, and that is already starting to unfold. So it's really cool to be here. And we should do this again, if you guys want to do it. Like, this was super fun. I don't know about you guys, but I have. So much fun. Wow. Oh, my God. Yeah. Do I have to go to work today? And you do have pros, right? I'll just do it, too. We got Elizabeth Beisel, who is, you know, an international broadcaster for Peacock and NBC. Oh, please, Rich. In addition to being this unbelievably decorated athlete, and then Katie, podcaster now with the Unfiltered Podcast.

• 1:06:31Katie Hoff?

  I know. I know.

• 1:06:33Rich Roll?

  So you're a pro in this space as well.

• 1:06:35Katie Hoff?

  I'm not a pro, but I'm making my way.

• 1:06:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you are. It's incredible. Dominating the swimming, the discourse around swimming in a really cool way. So I think it's great what you're doing.

• 1:06:45Katie Hoff?

  Thank you. Appreciate that.

• 1:06:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm here to support you in that regard.

• 1:06:48Katie Hoff?

  I have some questions.

• 1:06:49Rich Roll?

  And if you want to, if you want to watch the swimming broadcast in French, Chris is your guy. Can you find that on the internet? Like, where do you get?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  It's hard, yeah.

• 1:06:58Rich Roll?

  It's hard. Go to the dark lab.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  It's good. I've seen a lot of people and

• 1:07:03Rich Roll?

  Right on.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  We appreciate you, Rich, because you really help a lot of people and have for years. So

• 1:07:07Rich Roll?

  Thank you.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  I appreciate what you do.

• 1:07:08Rich Roll?

  Well, this is great. Thank you so much. It was a real treat. Appreciate it. All right. Postcards from Paris. Episode one, complete. Is that what you're calling it? I don't know. I love that. You should. It's cute. I love it. Good. Approved?

• 1:07:21Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 1:07:22Rich Roll?

  Stamp of approval. Cheers. Cheers. Thanks, guys. Peace. Hell, yeah.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

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