Pod Insights The Rewatchables 'What Lies Beneath’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin About this episode The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin sail up to Vermont for a sleepy weekend at the Spencer residence to rewatch the 2000 horror mystery ‘What Lies Beneath’ starring Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer.
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, and Eduardo Ocampo
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Transcript 22,182 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Finding a decent piece of clothing can be a lot harder than finding a decent movie,
0:44 Bill Simmons? but that was before Quince. Quince has staple pieces made from premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's the perfect place to start building a cozy fall outfit without any absurd markups. For instance, I love a good vest. They have a lightweight, down, packable puffer vest, which is an easy fall layer, although nobody loves layers more than Chris Ryan. You can throw it over a sweater, long sleeve, whenever you want to make an outfit feel a little more seasonal, simple, classic, one of those pieces that works with pretty much everything that's already in your closet. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com.
1:27 Bill Simmons? Get free shipping on your order, 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it's a Rewatchables podcast. They would appreciate that. It's the best way to support the show.
1:45 Bill Simmons? The Rewatchables brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find The Watch with Chris Ryan. That's right. You can find House of Art. You're still podcasting, right? Still podcasting. House of Art with Malley Rubin. That's right. We did 50 most rewatchable movies ever as one of the last pods. The last movie we've done was F1, which you were here for. Last night, my son comes home, doesn't have a lot of homework. School just started again. And my wife and him are negotiating movies. Somehow, they start with Devil Wears Prada. My son hadn't seen it.
2:16 Speaker 01 Wow.
2:17 Bill Simmons? They run through the whole thing. You know what? I didn't leave the room.
2:19 Speaker 01 I bet not.
2:20 Bill Simmons? It was number one. It was like approved the ranking.
2:22 Chris Ryan? 2026 is just racking up numbers. Do you think they saw your clips? Like any of the clips from that mailbag? And they were like, let's do Dad Proud.
2:30 Bill Simmons? No, my, my son watched 10 minutes, 12 minutes of the top 50.
2:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:36 Bill Simmons? Thought it was a good idea, but got bored.
2:37 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm. Did he go to Instagram to look at the graphic?
2:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know if he did that. Anyway, rewatchables, we're just cranking it in 2026. We're trying to do some movies because we're moving the rewatchables, the video, still on Spotify.
2:50 Speaker 01 That's right.
2:51 Bill Simmons? Or we're moving it to Netflix at the end of the month. We're gonna try to match it with some Netflix movies, including What Lies Beneath, which is on Netflix and is a movie very dear to your heart.
3:01 Speaker 01 Well, it features two of the hottest people ever to walk the earth.
3:05 Bill Simmons? More importantly, evil Harrison Ford.
3:07 Chris Ryan? James Raymar and Miranda Otto.
3:09 Bill Simmons? And James Raymar.
3:10 Speaker 01 You know how I feel about Miranda Otto.
3:12 Bill Simmons? What Lies Beneath is next.
3:28 Bill Simmons? All right, the duel is here. Michelle Pfeiffer versus Harrison Ford. My favorite versus your favorite. Let's go. It's like heated rivalry all over again.
3:38 Speaker 01 That's not what happens. You can tell he hasn't watched heated rivalry.
3:41 Chris Ryan? It would be Harrison Ford and James Raymar if it was heated rivalry.
3:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, my bad.
3:44 Speaker 01 Um, why choose? I mean, I would choose Harrison Ford over any other person in the history of the world because he is the most precious thing to me and to so many. But why not both? I mean, that's the great joy of the film is getting to watch Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer. Whisper into each other's ears. Tickle some chest hair.
4:05 Bill Simmons? Believable couple.
4:06 Speaker 01 Can we take a believable couple? Sure. Hot people like to fuck each other, right?
4:10 Bill Simmons? Mouse off to a roaring start.
4:13 Chris Ryan? Did you have a lot of anticipation for this when it was coming out in 2000? Were you like, the two number one draft picks are united?
4:20 Bill Simmons? The thing is, I didn't have Michelle Pfeiffer season tickets because.
4:24 Chris Ryan? In 2000?
4:25 Speaker 01 Of course.
4:25 Bill Simmons? Little bit of a broken picker with some of her movies.
4:28 Speaker 01 Well.
4:28 Bill Simmons? Some movies that I'm just like, I'm not going to see that. You ever heard that expression when a friend of yours is just dating the wrong people and you're like, a little bit of a broken picker?
4:36 Speaker 01 Yep.
4:37 Bill Simmons? I didn't, I thought she had a little bit of a script.
4:39 Chris Ryan? I've never heard that.
4:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah, couple. I just, she lost my trust a little bit, but I was always there. If it was going to be like a vehicle.
4:47 Chris Ryan? Right.
4:47 Speaker 01 Sure.
4:47 Bill Simmons? For all the things I liked about her, but I mean, the irony of this is this is the last really big movie in their kind of late primes that they did. They both moved into a different phase, which we'll talk about later, but see our, why don't we do this more often? Just two massive stars, we throw them together, they're a little bit in danger, one of us in danger, like, shouldn't we just do, like, where are the, all the stars we have now? Just make movies like this.
5:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, I think every once in a while you see somebody come up with an idea to do something like this. There's like an 824 movie coming out with Zendaya and Robert Pattinson that looks like it has some of those qualities that you're talking about where it's like, people like these two a lot, let's put them together and throw a concept on it.
5:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:26 Chris Ryan? The interesting thing about what lies beneath to me is the way that it transitions a little bit from the From Hell erotic thriller 90s into the high concept 2000s. And it becomes, if you go into this thinking it's an erotic thriller, I dare say you might, you might need a little bit of the Billy Bob Thornton juice to get through it.
5:45 Bill Simmons? Little movie blue balls.
5:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
5:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:47 Chris Ryan? I think it's way more of a haunted house ghost story than it is a erotic thriller.
5:51 Bill Simmons? It's also, I wrote down the ultimate family horror movie. Along the lines of like a Poltergeist.
5:58 Speaker 01 What do you mean by family horror?
6:00 Bill Simmons? Of a movie that.
6:01 Speaker 01 For the family to share?
6:02 Bill Simmons? You can kind of, it's.
6:03 Chris Ryan? Oh, the whole family can watch.
6:04 Bill Simmons? It's not like, hey, guys, let's cue a hereditary.
6:08 Speaker 01 Sure.
6:09 Bill Simmons? Christmas Eve, what do you think? This is like a safe horror movie. It's scary, but it's not too scary.
6:14 Speaker 01 It's spooky.
6:15 Bill Simmons? It's spooky, it's creepy.
6:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:17 Bill Simmons? It's uncomfortable, but it's not like. Scary, scary.
6:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, I, you know, I basically want to spend as much time with Harrison Ford as I can, but I don't, as you guys know, like horror movies because I'm a coward, I'm a weak baby and a coward.
6:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
6:29 Speaker 01 So this was one for a while. It's like, can I handle it? But I do think the genre meld makes it palatable to people who are a little bit horror averse because the supernatural element is very prominent and the like domestic thriller aspect. That, that blend spares it from being too scary, prohibitively scary, but it is certainly like alarming.
6:51 Bill Simmons? It's, there's a couple of great sequences that we'll talk about, but, I mean, the bathtub, bathtub stuff is like really high end.
6:59 Speaker 01 Sure.
6:59 Bill Simmons? Disorienting and, and there's a couple of good jump scares.
7:03 Speaker 01 There are.
7:03 Chris Ryan? We haven't done a really significant director recast in a long time. Like, we usually skip past that category or just, we briefly talk about it. This is one I think you could have a 20 minute conversation about all the different people who are around around this time who would have had different takes on the same material and like provoked way different reactions than Zemeckis. Zemeckis like is a master technician, he's an amazing filmmaker, but like,
7:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:33 Chris Ryan? you know, like there are guys out there that would have gone further than the red apple and the red dress, just put it that way.
7:38 Bill Simmons? And there's probably some actresses that might have taken it up a notch, too.
7:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
7:43 Bill Simmons? There's another thing. This is a PG 13 performance by Michelle Pfeiffer. Even the sex scene, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, I'm almost positive.
7:52 Speaker 01 I hope so.
7:53 Bill Simmons? It's, it's a little tame. It's a little TNT-ish. They're not going showtime.
7:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
7:58 Bill Simmons? Circa 2012.
8:02 Bill Simmons? Nobody's with me on that.
8:03 Chris Ryan? Of course.
8:03 Speaker 01 I'm, I'm.
8:04 Bill Simmons? I was trying to think of like the.
8:05 Speaker 01 We're stunned into silence because our minds are racing with the possibilities.
8:08 Bill Simmons? The raciest cable time we've had.
8:10 Chris Ryan? Skinamax.
8:11 Speaker 01 No question.
8:11 Bill Simmons? Well, yeah, that's, that's its own thing. The recipe for this movie.
8:15 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
8:16 Bill Simmons? Two massive attractive stars.
8:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:18 Bill Simmons? And accessible ghost mystery. A fucking awesome house.
8:22 Speaker 01 It's a great house.
8:24 Bill Simmons? It's kind of a stealth shaky marriage movie.
8:27 Speaker 01 For sure.
8:27 Bill Simmons? And then it's a, one of my favorites, Mal.
8:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:30 Bill Simmons? The she's going nuts and nobody believes in her.
8:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:33 Bill Simmons? But I kind of believe her. I don't think she's crazy, but everyone else does. I love movies like that.
8:38 Speaker 01 I think the part of the fun of the movie, especially the first time you watch it, and then I would say maybe the second time you watch it, because when a movie is rooted in some capacity in a twist, the first time you re-watch it, you're like, okay, I see all of the clues, all of the breadcrumbs and where they're pointing. There are like a number of different twists in the movie ultimately. I will say, one thing we should talk about at some point today is how the trailer basically completely gives away the movie.
9:00 Bill Simmons? I had that as number one, What's Hates the Worst.
9:01 Speaker 01 Real What's Hates the Worst, so that's tough.
9:03 Bill Simmons? The trailer fucking killed it. It was like, oh, it's evil Harrison Ford, he's the killer.
9:07 Chris Ryan? Yes.
9:07 Bill Simmons? But Zemeckis has this whole...
9:09 Chris Ryan? It even spoils her, her possession by Madison's.
9:12 Speaker 01 The affair, who Madison is, the fact that they look alike, like all of that just in the trailer.
9:17 Bill Simmons? Did you see what he said about this, though?
9:18 Speaker 01 Zemeckis?
9:19 Bill Simmons? This is like his thing. He's like, I want, I want people to enjoy the movie and the more they know what's coming, the less they're worrying about what's coming. I'm like, I feel the opposite.
9:28 Chris Ryan? Don't be a coward, Bob. Come on. Come on, Bob Z. Scare the shit out of me. Also, this comes out at the tail end of an era in Hollywood movies, where people were pretty good about, more or less, keeping twists a secret. So Usual Suspects, Sixth Sense, The Matrix, you know, Fight Club, like, people were like, yeah, man, go to the movies, you're gonna really enjoy this, I won't tell you what happens. They're giving this away in like the two-minute trailer.
9:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, the fact that he is actually the killer and will try to kill again is not revealed in the trailer, but the fact that you should be suspicious of him for all of these reasons is. And if you go in without having seen that, that part of the real fun of the movie is that he seems like such a, such a lovely guy to share a life with. Like, he's a little gaslighty from the jump, I will say. Gaslighting is pretty persistent throughout, but he's like, you want to fool around? You know? I'm like, sure, you're Harrison Ford, so the answer would be yes.
10:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
10:19 Speaker 01 You know, let's renovate, let's renovate this beautiful Vermont lake house. That's all great. So you have like the Madison aspect of it. You have, to your point about, is she crazy? Also, I think a stretch of the film where you shift from wondering, did she do it? Is Claire the killer?
10:34 Chris Ryan? Well, there's like, there's a lot of like Claire lost time. She's got some memory.
10:38 Speaker 01 She has repressed something.
10:39 Chris Ryan? A blank memory somewhere.
10:40 Speaker 01 Yeah. So that's an enticing possibility for a stretch of the film. And so that part of it is, is very fun.
10:45 Bill Simmons? Did you know what was gonna happen in this movie, Craig?
10:47 Speaker 03 No, I watched it with, with Liz and her two brothers. None of us watched the trailers. We had no idea what was going on. Truly did not know that the Harrison Ford twist was coming.
10:56 Chris Ryan? Okay.
10:57 Speaker 03 It was a real, I don't know what's gonna happen next for a while. Even up until the end in certain ways, it was pretty open ended.
11:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah, cuz even at the end, you're just kinda like, okay, maybe, maybe he is like just trying to get out from under this affair.
11:08 Bill Simmons? My daughter watched The Sixth Sense with her boyfriend who had never seen it.
11:12 Speaker 01 Didn't know the twist?
11:13 Bill Simmons? Couple of days ago and he didn't know the twist.
11:14 Speaker 01 Oh, man.
11:15 Bill Simmons? I'd moved and I told you how I watched Shawshank with Ben.
11:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
11:19 Bill Simmons? And he didn't know anything and like multiple times was like, oh, man, he, I can't believe he killed himself. And then they opened the cell and he's not there. It's like, whoa!
11:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:28 Bill Simmons? And he had a couple of those and I just get jealous of the people that don't know these famous twists are happening.
11:32 Speaker 01 It's great. I mean, we're out of that era entirely now, of course, because like a trailer drop is an eventized thing. Trailers literally come into our lives with a mini trailer at the beginning of the trailer. It is enticing to sell the movie by subverting people's expectation of Harrison Ford as hero. That makes sense as like a marketing gambit. However, it does, it is a demerit in terms of sapping some of the suspense from the first hour, 12 of the movie.
11:55 Bill Simmons? Do you need to sell Harrison Ford in the year 2000?
11:58 Speaker 01 Not to me.
11:59 Bill Simmons? That guy was like one of the biggest stars we had.
12:00 Speaker 01 Well, his 80s is the best decade anyone has ever had and the 90s are pretty great, too.
12:04 Chris Ryan? I wonder if there was, I mean, not specifically pressure from Ford, but since the entire pitch of the movie is like, here's a guy. His, one of his most famous roles is when he is falsely accused of killing his wife. We're gonna tip off that this is a different kinda role from him. And that this is a different, this is not The Fugitive again.
12:21 Speaker 03 There is a moment when he, you almost think he's gonna say like,
12:24 Chris Ryan? I didn't kill my wife.
12:25 Speaker 03 I didn't kill my wife.
12:26 Speaker 01 Well, we, we get the little wink when Warren says that, which, you know, feels very deliberate.
12:31 Bill Simmons? You think Zemeckis was down with Derrick Henry not being used enough for the last month of the Oregon season?
12:35 Speaker 01 So what minute, what minute mark? What minute mark are we at?
12:38 Chris Ryan? We're like around sixteen, seventeen.
12:40 Speaker 01 That's a longer than I thought it would for him to give me shit about the Ravens. I'm fine.
12:43 Bill Simmons? I have another football analogy. My queen, Michelle Pfeiffer.
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:46 Bill Simmons? Who's, I don't think has ever looked better. It's like this, her Dangerous Minds in the finals for her.
12:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:52 Bill Simmons? Little older, um.
12:53 Speaker 03 More than Baker Boys?
12:54 Bill Simmons? Well, here's my case.
12:56 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
12:57 Bill Simmons? I, I wrote down like Brady and the Falcons, Pat's Super Bowl. Little older, more experience, unassailable, full confidence, peak of her powers, the fucking goat.
13:07 Chris Ryan? I like that you just write that down.
13:09 Speaker 01 Makes sense.
13:10 Bill Simmons? Wasn't like you could argue.
13:11 Speaker 01 Just in case you forgot.
13:12 Bill Simmons? You could argue like Fabulous Baker Boys was like her oh four to oh seven range, but I, I want the Pats Falcons. This is it. This is her, this and to Jillian on her thirty-seventh birthday, just, she just knows. There's no lead that's safe. She can run any two-point conversion. She just knows what she's doing.
13:28 Speaker 01 Um, she's flawless. The performance is great. She looks astonishing. We're in a wonderful fashion period for her as well. I, short of a Tarantino movie, like I'm struggling to think of how many other films you could put up here on the like foot stuff front. You know, we don't really need too many excuses. Obviously, a lot of the end of the film, the climax of the film is like, can she find the toe dexterity to pull the plug on?
13:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
13:53 Bill Simmons? You think Tarantino is like, fuck, this is great. I love this.
13:57 Speaker 01 We're doing something special and important here, but even just like the toe and the,
14:00 Bill Simmons? Texting Zemeckis.
14:01 Speaker 01 The little shard of glass, you know, we've got the Birkenstock shot when she slides off the rock. You really think that the fence cutting the wrists repeatedly at the beginning of the movie is gonna matter, and then it doesn't.
14:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of red herrings. A lot of red herrings.
14:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:15 Bill Simmons? Um, my wife made this point, cause Michelle Pfeiffer is so beautiful that even other women are like, wow, she looks awesome. And my wife was, the Good Son Moms in this.
14:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
14:25 Bill Simmons? The lady from The Good Son who's holding the two kids, ah, let's, uh, Macaulay Culkin go. We haven't done The Good Son yet. It's coming.
14:32 Chris Ryan? Okay.
14:33 Bill Simmons? It's coming. When we do From Hell Month. And my wife was like, this lady's really pretty and Michelle Pfeiffer is just blowing her off the screen. It's like, and she was like, I would never want to be an actress in a Michelle Pfeiffer movie during this time, where you're just getting annihilated, just being, having coffee with her for three minutes.
14:51 Chris Ryan? You're always second banana.
14:52 Bill Simmons? Great run. So she'd been a little bit of a slump after Dangerous Minds. Up Close and Personal, To Jillian 37th Birthday, which is a great location movie. I highly recommend that.
15:03 Chris Ryan? What's the location?
15:04 Bill Simmons? Antucket. Just go, you want to spend some time in Antucket.
15:05 Speaker 01 Nice.
15:06 Bill Simmons? One Fine Day, a movie that I think all of us thought was gonna work and it just did it with Clooney.
15:10 Chris Ryan? That's Clooney, right?
15:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah. A Thousand Acres, Prince of Egypt, Deep End of the Ocean, which is sadly not good. Midsommer Night's Dream. And then The Story of Us, which was another one, that was basically about Rob Reiner's divorce. That one, her and Bruce Willis.
15:23 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
15:24 Bill Simmons? Not a good hang, that movie. And she kind of needed this one, and this was a massive hit. And then just pairing her and Harrison Ford, it's like fucking Mad Libs of just, let's put two giant stars together. Chemistry wise, I thought like a nine and a half out of 10, 10 out of 10?
15:40 Speaker 01 I mean, you know how I feel about this. Harrison Ford has chemistry with a blade of grass. Harrison Ford has chemistry with anyone.
15:49 Bill Simmons? Top five chemistry for Harrison Ford in movies?
15:52 Speaker 01 Well, you know, you know that I think McGillis, the longing, the yearning and witness, I think can't be matched.
15:57 Bill Simmons? So that's still your number one?
15:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:59 Chris Ryan? Who's the wife in Mosquito Coast?
16:01 Speaker 01 Helen Mirren.
16:03 Chris Ryan? Helen Mirren.
16:04 Speaker 01 Because they reunited in 1923. And that, of course, is a, he's a bad guy, he's a bad guy in that movie. So it's not like this is the first time we've seen him be a bad guy.
16:12 Chris Ryan? I'm trying to remember the...
16:14 Bill Simmons? Kristen Scott Thomas in Random Hearts?
16:16 Speaker 01 I watched that movie a lot when I was younger.
16:18 Bill Simmons? That movie sucked. I like Random Hearts.
16:21 Speaker 01 It's not my favorite Harrison Ford haircut, I will say, but he has chemistry with everyone.
16:25 Bill Simmons? Brendan Scotchey, Presumed Innocent?
16:26 Chris Ryan? Who's, who's Henry's wife?
16:28 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure. Yeah.
16:29 Bill Simmons? Oh, regarding Henry, it's Annette Benning.
16:31 Chris Ryan? Annette Benning, that's right.
16:32 Speaker 01 That's a great one.
16:32 Bill Simmons? We'll be doing that during dramas that have now become comedies, but that's also on the schedule.
16:37 Speaker 01 He's got great chemistry with the Ritz crackers painting behind him in that movie.
16:40 Bill Simmons? I wonder if-
16:41 Speaker 01 He's got chemistry with everyone.
16:41 Bill Simmons? He would be the, like, a top five podcast for me.
16:45 Chris Ryan? Harrison?
16:45 Bill Simmons? Because I would ask questions like, alright.
16:47 Chris Ryan? He's probably on the trail of that.
16:49 Bill Simmons? You were every actress. Who did you have the best chemistry with?
16:50 Chris Ryan? You could get Harrison Ford.
16:51 Speaker 01 Well, he's like a famously legendary interview because for so long, he was so, you know, such a curmudgeon, right?
16:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
16:57 Speaker 01 And now he's kind of in his, like, phase of actually engaging-
17:00 Chris Ryan? Yes.
17:01 Speaker 01 -in a more meta way with the fact that that was his interview persona for so long. Like, when he did Dial of Destiny and 1923 and Shrinking, kind of all at the same time, and was really out there, I have never felt so alive.
17:11 Bill Simmons? Oh, wow.
17:12 Speaker 01 I have never felt so alive.
17:14 Bill Simmons? I'm sure he's furious that Sam Elliott got this landman part.
17:16 Speaker 01 He's in, well-
17:17 Bill Simmons? I couldn't have lay in a pool with some stripper?
17:20 Speaker 01 I was gonna say, he's in 1923, but obviously-
17:21 Bill Simmons? I was right here.
17:21 Speaker 01 Sheridan famously, like, reuses performers across many properties.
17:25 Chris Ryan? He also, like, damaged Sam Elliott's hip on 1883, so it feels like this is payback for that. This is like, this is a call.
17:32 Speaker 01 It's been incorporated into the plot, you know?
17:33 Bill Simmons? Much easier plot.
17:34 Speaker 01 You fall into the pool, you can't get out because your hip hurts.
17:37 Bill Simmons? Listen, I say this very lightly and not in an aggressive way to you, especially, but this was the end of his extended 25-year prime, this movie.
17:44 Speaker 01 I agree with that.
17:45 Bill Simmons? We move into a different phase of Harrison Ford. From 97 to 2000, Devil's Own, Air Force One, Six Days, Seven Nights, Random Hearts, What Lies Beneath, and Six Days, Seven Nights was a good movie that got completely overshadowed by all the stuff going on with Anne Hatch.
17:58 Chris Ryan? That's right.
17:59 Bill Simmons? But it's actually like a good movie.
18:00 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
18:00 Chris Ryan? That's the plane crash movie where, like, they're on a desert island?
18:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah, and they're together, yeah. But he's 57 when he filmed this, and now, this was the final stop. It was like John Cena turning heel.
18:09 Speaker 01 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
18:10 Bill Simmons? No, in his prime.
18:10 Speaker 01 Not the final stop, but sure.
18:12 Bill Simmons? This was kind of a move. It's like, the last thing I haven't done is gone heel.
18:15 Speaker 01 There's a real lull after this, for sure. And then I think he makes some good movies in the early 10s, you know, like-
18:23 Bill Simmons? But he's not, he's not like the-
18:25 Speaker 01 Now he's back.
18:25 Bill Simmons? Harrison Ford is the fugitive, I'm going.
18:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, we get, like, Force Awakens and 15, Blade Runner.
18:31 Chris Ryan? What's like a 2000s movie, like, K-19?
18:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, Widowmaker's like right, right on the heels of this.
18:34 Chris Ryan? Indiana Jones 4 is good. I will defend that movie.
18:37 Speaker 01 Crystal Skull is good?
18:38 Chris Ryan? Crystal Skull's not that bad.
18:40 Speaker 01 I don't think it's bad either. I actually don't think it's bad, but good is-
18:43 Chris Ryan? The first hour is great.
18:44 Bill Simmons? What is, that's not the one that came out a couple of years ago.
18:46 Speaker 01 No, Dial of Destiny, but that's good. I think Dial of Destiny is good.
18:50 Chris Ryan? I think Dial of Destiny is good?
18:51 Speaker 01 Yes, I have a take on this that I feel strongly about.
18:53 Chris Ryan? Crystal Skull is Spielberg still, cooking.
18:55 Speaker 03 For the first hour of that movie.
18:56 Speaker 01 Dial of Destiny is man goal.
18:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's good.
18:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's not bad.
18:59 Speaker 03 It's good.
18:59 Speaker 01 None of them are bad, even the things that are bad about them are fun.
19:02 Speaker 03 Shia was well cast. I would make that argument as well.
19:04 Speaker 01 Dial of Destiny is good because it's actually like, what is it like if you are the hero of your world to get old? It's like, we're not pretending that Indy isn't old in that movie. That's actually interesting. It's a story about legacy. You don't like that?
19:16 Speaker 03 He was 80.
19:16 Speaker 01 And he's still got it, man. When he took his shirt off, he looked fucking great. We went back to the elbow kiss. Wonderful.
19:22 Speaker 03 He was 80. That's my problem with that movie.
19:23 Bill Simmons? Did you have a take on the mailbag question we got about the Harrison Ford body odor category for Indiana Jones, like just stinking?
19:32 Speaker 03 I don't think now I would have a problem with that.
19:33 Speaker 01 I don't have, I have like.
19:34 Bill Simmons? You probably would be fine, right?
19:35 Chris Ryan? I don't know.
19:35 Speaker 01 So this gets at a, I like, Chris has heard me talk about, I always wonder when there's like a showman's on Survivor, when people are fucking on Survivor. I'm like, I can't really think of anything less appealing than.
19:44 Bill Simmons? The hygiene gets.
19:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, exploring each other's bodies when you smell that much, but maybe you just go nose blind. Yeah. I, there's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford.
19:52 Bill Simmons? I think you go nose blind.
19:53 Speaker 01 You can't present me with one. Sorry.
19:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I think you go nose blind.
19:56 Chris Ryan? Also, it's not like Marion in Raiders is getting like spa days. You know what I mean? She's also out there.
20:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:01 Chris Ryan? She's, she's in the, the markets in Morocco or whatever. Yeah.
20:05 Speaker 01 Snuggling up in a cot together. Having a great time.
20:07 Bill Simmons? Chris, did you buy evil Harrison Ford?
20:08 Speaker 01 Oh, of course.
20:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I mean, I think he does a lot of really, the, the stuff I like the most in this movie are the subtle tips.
20:15 Speaker 01 Yes.
20:15 Chris Ryan? Towards his evil throughout the film. So like his obsession with his dad.
20:20 Speaker 01 Yep.
20:20 Chris Ryan? His muttering, his like obsession with like this big paper he's presenting. Uh, I, I like, I like all that stuff. And then his heel turn at the end, especially the bathtub scene, the bathroom scene is really great.
20:33 Bill Simmons? I mean, his legal defense would have been, I'm just a stick man. What do you want from me?
20:38 Speaker 01 What do you want?
20:38 Bill Simmons? Man's gotta get what a man's gotta get. I'm sorry.
20:41 Chris Ryan? Got a lot of questions about law enforcement in the greater Vermont area.
20:44 Speaker 01 Me too. I have some questions about the state of Madison's missing person case throughout this movie. But on that like subtle clues front, you know, even the, the opening shot that we get, like our introduction to Norman, not the opening shot of the film, but the first time we see him is his hand, you know, Harrison Ford hand acting. Always something worth talking about. Nothing will ever top later on, but this is a great installment in the Harrison Ford hand acting, the bloody hands on the tub edge in particular. But like his hand reaching around a throat is opening. Oh, oh my God. Yeah. The hands of a carpenter, put to good work in many respects throughout the decades. Indeed. Indeed. My Jesus.
21:16 Bill Simmons? Jack Black, number one hand actor?
21:19 Speaker 01 Harrison Ford's hand acting is remarkable. If you're thinking about it, you can't unsee it. Once you know to look for it, it's everywhere. And so like the first thing we see with Norman is he's like reaching around. It ends up being a loving embrace, but it's a threat, really threatening gesture if you look at it. In hindsight, maybe, I mean, maybe fun, depending on, you know, what two consenting adults are up to on a given evening.
21:36 Bill Simmons? Can't judge.
21:37 Chris Ryan? No.
21:39 Speaker 01 Think we can keep up with that.
21:40 Bill Simmons? As long as there's a safe word.
21:43 Bill Simmons? I love Harrison Ford. I would take his entire library on a desert island over, I think, just about any other actor. I think it's a great question. Hanks is in there.
21:53 Chris Ryan? Denzel.
21:54 Bill Simmons? Denzel Stallone.
21:55 Speaker 01 Cruise.
21:56 Bill Simmons? Cruise. Cruise probably wins this, but.
21:59 Speaker 01 I would pick Harrison Ford.
22:00 Bill Simmons? This would be a good ringer bracket.
22:02 Chris Ryan? Desert Island.
22:03 Bill Simmons? You only get the one person's filmography. Who are you taking?
22:07 Speaker 01 There's no way I'm not picking Harrison Ford because Witness is one of my favorites. And then I get Star Wars and Indy, like, and Blade Runner? Come on.
22:14 Chris Ryan? What's like.
22:14 Bill Simmons? John would be like, Paul Dano.
22:17 Chris Ryan? What is the most like Wichita State out there Cinderella one for this bracket?
22:22 Bill Simmons? For that bracket?
22:23 Chris Ryan? Like is it?
22:23 Bill Simmons? Like Joey Pants.
22:24 Chris Ryan? Is it like Liam Neeson?
22:25 Bill Simmons? Joey Pants is a great one.
22:26 Chris Ryan? Cause you get Minion Run, you get The Matrix.
22:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's like the Robert Horry. They have all the titles, but they're just side characters.
22:32 Bill Simmons? Honestly, Rogan, considering like he was even, he's in movies in 03, like he's in, uh, I was just, I just saw him in something in 03 or 04. He's the cameraman.
22:42 Speaker 03 Oh, uh, Forty Old Virgin, he's in.
22:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Forty Old Virgin.
22:46 Speaker 03 Is that one of those?
22:47 Chris Ryan? But you also can get Steve Jobs in there, right? Like with, with Rogan, that's right.
22:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Rogan's got, I mean, if you go just 21st century, interesting one. We'll have to revisit that. Uh, this movie is a murderer's row of graduated that guys and that gals. Like the good son mom, Wendy Creason. Diana Scarwood from my favorite movie Inside Moves that C.R. won't acknowledge.
23:09 Speaker 03 It's Anchorman, by the way. He's a cameraman in Anchorman.
23:11 Bill Simmons? Anchorman, that's what it was. That's where I saw it. Uh, Joe Mooney. Terminator two, like an ultimate that guy performance by Joe Mooney. One of the all timers.
23:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah, man, I that you you still haven't mentioned my my that guy.
23:24 Bill Simmons? Well.
23:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
23:25 Bill Simmons? Who's your that guy?
23:26 Chris Ryan? Uh, the guy plays Stan, Ray Baker, I think his name is, who's the guy who sells Quaid, the package in Total Recall.
23:33 Bill Simmons? Not even, oh, that guy.
23:35 Chris Ryan? He's like, sells him the Mars package.
23:36 Bill Simmons? That's his name?
23:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
23:37 Bill Simmons? So that you stepped on that guy, but I I guess it was justified because we didn't mention James Reamar yet.
23:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:43 Bill Simmons? James Reamar?
23:45 Speaker 01 Richard from Sex and the City.
23:46 Chris Ryan? I I always said James Raymar.
23:48 Bill Simmons? Walk by him, I would say at least 20 times in my neighborhood.
23:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:52 Bill Simmons? We live in the same neighborhood and I've just, I almost don't want to spoil it. I don't want to say anything to him.
23:57 Speaker 01 You don't want to tell him about this podcast? No?
24:00 Bill Simmons? Just like, you know, man, Gans, I think is the best action movie villain of all time.
24:05 Chris Ryan? Who are you more nervous to talk to? Raymar or Peyton Pritchard?
24:10 Bill Simmons? Oh, Raymar?
24:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:12 Bill Simmons? I mean, over athlete in their twenties? No, Raymar, I think is the number one that guy I would be, I would be like.
24:18 Chris Ryan? Okay.
24:19 Bill Simmons? Not nervous to talk to, but I would be really worried about the approach.
24:22 Speaker 01 You should leave a like a gift basket on his porch, just like Claire does.
24:26 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
24:27 Speaker 01 In this movie and then watch him through binoculars, very sloppily.
24:30 Bill Simmons? That's what I'm gonna do.
24:31 Speaker 01 And then see, does he discard the flowers that keep the wine?
24:36 Bill Simmons? Like that. Zemeckis made this movie during the long break in Castaway. The only rewatchable is that somebody soloed, which was me during five weeks in the COVID.
24:47 Speaker 01 All timer, all time move by you.
24:49 Bill Simmons? Hanks had to lose weight and grow a beard. Zemeckis used the same crew and they filmed All of What Lies Beneath and then went back and finished Castaway. What a run.
24:56 Chris Ryan? And also.
24:57 Bill Simmons? Fucking heat check.
24:57 Chris Ryan? The thing that's amazing is it's not like this was an easy shoot.
25:00 Bill Simmons? No.
25:01 Chris Ryan? They reconstructed a house in Los Angeles sound stages to do the interiors. Like this was a significant undertaking and has a lot of visual effects.
25:09 Speaker 01 Water shooting, filming with water, never easy. What do you think Wilson was doing while Hanks was growing a beard and shedding weight?
25:16 Bill Simmons? They're just.
25:17 Speaker 01 What was Wilson doing during that?
25:18 Bill Simmons? The prop person was just bringing in more Wilson's feelings. Is this too over the top?
25:21 Speaker 01 Sweet Wilson.
25:22 Bill Simmons? Director standings, he moves into sole possession of fourth place.
25:27 Chris Ryan? Interesting. So back to future one and two, Flight, this.
25:31 Bill Simmons? Gump, Castaway.
25:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:33 Chris Ryan? What's his early movie?
25:35 Bill Simmons? He has Used Cars, I think, that we could do. There's a couple later. So Spielberg and Scott are at nine. Mann and Scorsese are eight. Fincher and Reiner are seven. Simek is six. That's where we are right now. Ridley Scott and De Palma at five.
25:50 Speaker 01 Wow.
25:51 Bill Simmons? There's some, there's some ones that are probably gonna bump up. There's some on the list that the Carantino is probably gonna start rising pretty soon.
25:59 Speaker 01 Are you gonna finally do Blade Runner and move Ridley Scott up?
26:03 Chris Ryan? I wonder if Denis Villeneuve will have any action.
26:04 Speaker 01 We'll just stay and do it right after this.
26:05 Bill Simmons? I'll call, uh, I'll call Ted and see when Blade Runner is gonna be on. I'll text him later. Movie's written by Clark Gregg.
26:14 Speaker 01 This is like...
26:16 Bill Simmons? And who's an actor?
26:17 Speaker 01 Who is, who's an actor?
26:19 Bill Simmons? Who's, I'm just saying he's an actor.
26:19 Speaker 01 He's Agent Phil Coulson in the MCU. This is crazy. Then he wrote this screenplay, rewrote this screenplay.
26:24 Chris Ryan? He might as well be like he plays Galadriel, you know, like he doesn't know.
26:27 Speaker 01 He definitely doesn't know who Galadriel is.
26:29 Bill Simmons? Did he stop Velcro?
26:33 Speaker 01 You're the best. Um, he's, has a very crucial showdown with Loki at one point. Um, the fact that Agent Phil Coulson, an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., who is in the MCU.
26:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
26:47 Speaker 01 Rewrote this script, right? Rewrote it.
26:52 Speaker 01 I, I just don't know how to wrap my mind around this.
26:53 Chris Ryan? It's really strange. It's strange that he's never, has he done other stuff other than this?
26:57 Speaker 01 He has two other movies that he has done. He has the screenplay credits for, uh, Choke in 2008 and Trust Me in 2013.
27:08 Bill Simmons? I saw that movie.
27:10 Speaker 01 And this.
27:10 Chris Ryan? How about that?
27:11 Speaker 01 Yeah. And, uh, according to a recent article from CBR.com, Clark Gregg has said that he intends to return to the What Lies Beneath universe.
27:18 Chris Ryan? Does he really?
27:19 Bill Simmons? Oh, it's a universe now.
27:20 Speaker 01 I don't know what that means. Do we think we're gonna get like a Caitlyn story?
27:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
27:24 Speaker 01 You know, something like that?
27:26 Bill Simmons? One thing I wanted to mention about the universe. The, uh, just being located in Vermont.
27:31 Chris Ryan? Mm-hmm. It's gorgeous.
27:32 Bill Simmons? And how much great Hollywood stuff happens in Vermont. And it's also like, all bets are off in Vermont, New Hampshire.
27:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
27:38 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
27:38 Bill Simmons? It's where like in The Sopranos when Vito gets outed and he's just like, he's up there with Johnny Cakes in Vermont or New Hampshire.
27:45 Chris Ryan? It's where Diane Keaton bumps into Sam Shepard being a veterinarian in Baby Boom.
27:50 Bill Simmons? You just never know what's gonna happen up there. There's no cops. Funny Farm, I think is, was it up there? But it's always like upstate New York, New Hampshire.
27:58 Chris Ryan? New England is a great.
27:59 Bill Simmons? Vermont, it's just great. It's remote, it always feels safe, but it's kinda not.
28:03 Chris Ryan? I, I can't think of a better movie with Lake Champlain in the background.
28:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
28:08 Speaker 01 It's beautiful.
28:09 Bill Simmons? The original story was written by Sarah Koenochian.
28:12 Speaker 01 Documentarian.
28:13 Bill Simmons? Inspired by a real paranormal experience she had, obviously, in my wheelhouse.
28:19 Speaker 01 You love this.
28:20 Bill Simmons? Our house is fine. The ghosts love us now.
28:22 Speaker 01 You're getting along with the ghosts.
28:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they've, they accept us now.
28:25 Chris Ryan? What do you mean? This house has no ghosts anymore? Or you have?
28:28 Speaker 01 No, they're here still.
28:29 Bill Simmons? They're here, they're good with us.
28:31 Chris Ryan? Give me a little bit of, little color on that. So like, how, how would you say you guys are?
28:36 Bill Simmons? Nothing happened except went away for a couple of weeks in the summer.
28:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:40 Bill Simmons? And came back and like a frame fell over like within 20 minutes of us being home.
28:46 Speaker 01 As a way to say we're glad you're back, you think? Like a way to reach out and communicate?
28:50 Bill Simmons? We like when you're around.
28:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:52 Bill Simmons? That's how, that's how I interpreted it.
28:54 Speaker 01 Okay, interesting.
28:55 Bill Simmons? Third floor, the, the, there's a door that just, sometimes it's open, sometimes it's shut, nobody touches it.
29:02 Speaker 01 Big part of the plot of this movie.
29:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:04 Speaker 01 So, has anybody like written a message to you in the steam and a mirror?
29:08 Bill Simmons? No.
29:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
29:09 Bill Simmons? See, that would, that would actually freak me out.
29:10 Chris Ryan? That would freak me out too.
29:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:12 Chris Ryan? Are you open to having a paranormal investigator come over and interrogate?
29:16 Bill Simmons? No, cause I don't think the ghosts would like that. I want the ghosts to like us.
29:18 Chris Ryan? Okay.
29:19 Bill Simmons? I think that like putting them on display, I don't think works. You wanna be like? We acknowledge they're there. They like us.
29:27 Speaker 03 Why you?
29:28 Speaker 01 No, I just think, so this is one of my, I can't decide if this is like the, the hot take about the movie. I have another hottest take, but like the hot take about the movie is if you stay in a haunted house that long, you deserve to maybe die. Or if a what, what's aged the worst is just like how long Claire stays around after all of these horrible things are happening.
29:45 Bill Simmons? She should have left pretty early.
29:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's kind of disqualifying, but I think what, what, when I'm bumping on with what you're saying, I like that you guys are cohabitating peacefully. I think you're afraid of the ghost still and you're pretending you're not because the fact that you're really like you're,
29:56 Bill Simmons? No, no. Go up and get dog food up there all the time.
29:59 Speaker 03 Yeah?
29:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
30:00 Speaker 01 You don't want to piss off the ghost and that means that you're still living in fear.
30:03 Speaker 03 And what's the, the sort of household feeling on it? Like wife, son?
30:08 Bill Simmons? Zoe's in the worst spot with it because she had a dream once that a witch was clawing at her and woke up and had scratch marks on her arm, but she might've done it herself.
30:16 Speaker 01 Did she have any like skin under her fingernails?
30:18 Bill Simmons? I probably should have led with that.
30:21 Speaker 01 I mean, that's bad.
30:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that wasn't great.
30:23 Speaker 01 That's bad.
30:23 Bill Simmons? She's like, we have a witch. I'm like, nah, we don't know.
30:26 Speaker 01 A witch would be cool. Is it the ghost of a witch or like a witch who is just like, you know?
30:32 Bill Simmons? See, 2026, we're really bringing it on the rewatch. We'll take it up another level.
30:35 Speaker 01 It could go in any direction.
30:36 Bill Simmons? A hundred million dollar budget for What Lies Beneath.
30:39 Speaker 01 Which is.
30:40 Bill Simmons? It made 291 million dollars.
30:42 Speaker 01 Yep.
30:43 Bill Simmons? 10th biggest film of 2000. New category. The Horlback Century Club.
30:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:49 Bill Simmons? So one of our listeners said that we have to tie everything to 100 minutes. This movie, Craig, 130 minutes. So what, what is it on the scale? Is it, it's, it's not 30 minutes too long, is it?
31:01 Speaker 03 No, it's probably 15 though. This, this probably could be a 155'er, I think is the right move. There is a, it, it's, the, the first hour is definitely a little slow. I have to imagine with the rewatch even, knowing what's coming, probably feels like it takes quite a while to get there. There's a lot of like, she looks through the binoculars three more times and she probably needs to. It is a little slow for a while.
31:21 Chris Ryan? It's also a tough movie to, you have to watch it. You have to watch like all the little clues.
31:27 Bill Simmons? Yes.
31:28 Chris Ryan? All the little camera moves. It demands a lot of attention. There's a lot of sequences without dialogue. And so it's a tough movie to be like, I'm going to go get a chocolate chip cookie and come back and I'll know what's going on.
31:39 Speaker 03 I give it a minus 15.
31:41 Bill Simmons? Well, I'm wondering, do we use decimals or is it just straight digits?
31:44 Chris Ryan? I was wondering if we were gonna create our own metric, like, how many Horlebeks do you want to give this movie? Plus or minus 10 Craig's.
31:50 Bill Simmons? So it's a...
31:51 Speaker 01 Custom metric.
31:52 Bill Simmons? So he's minus, it's like a minus 14.7?
31:54 Speaker 03 Something like that.
31:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
31:55 Speaker 03 I'll keep track and we'll see at the end of the year which is the biggest number, yeah.
31:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I like the Horlebek scale. I agree with you. I think like about 154 range is probably...
32:04 Speaker 01 But do you agree that it should be removed from the front of the movie? Because I would pause it, be curious when you re-watch it, what you actually think of this because the end is so suspenseful when you're watching it for the first time. Once you know what's coming, I will say...
32:18 Bill Simmons? I would tighten it a little bit. Yeah, I agree.
32:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, like 20 minutes of slowly walking down the steps and like stopping in places in the bridge.
32:24 Speaker 03 Everything is very deliberate.
32:25 Speaker 01 It's too, a touch too long once you know the rest of it.
32:28 Chris Ryan? There's a couple of things that happen where you're like, you could just... Like, did she even need a, like, there's a couple of things, like, if you're gonna dive in to get the jewelry box.
32:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:37 Chris Ryan? Like, just open, like, we don't need to go on a long trip to Adamant to get the key, you know what I mean?
32:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Good, good call, CR. That's why you're the best.
32:45 Speaker 01 But we get to see a charming village.
32:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's true.
32:48 Bill Simmons? Another new category, watch party. Best setting for a watch re-watch. I'm only gonna give all of these once, but afterwards will be much faster. So the nominees are first date, date night, after you've been dating for a while or you're married.
33:00 Speaker 01 Absolutely not.
33:01 Bill Simmons? Kids, in-laws, safe scary, family hang, proxy vacation, theater, airplane, solo. That's CR's category for hardcore. Peanut gallery, ladies' night, pre-game or 5 o'clocker. This is safe scary, obviously. This is...
33:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
33:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:16 Bill Simmons? You can...
33:16 Chris Ryan? Kids can watch this.
33:17 Bill Simmons? You can be at your girlfriend's house when you're visiting her in college and it's like, what should we watch? And it's like, ah, we could probably watch What Lies Beneath, there's nothing bad.
33:24 Chris Ryan? Gotta say, I do think it has some late summer vacation vibes.
33:29 Bill Simmons? Oh, like a...
33:29 Chris Ryan? Like, last two days at the vacation.
33:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
33:32 Chris Ryan? Go back, but before you go back home and...
33:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:34 Chris Ryan? Any body of water nearby, it helps, yeah.
33:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, I like that. There's a boat.
33:38 Bill Simmons? Bad news, Roger Ebert, two stars.
33:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
33:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:43 Bill Simmons? Uh, he said it milks the genuine skills of its actor and director for more than it deserves. It runs off the rail in the ending, more laughable than scary.
33:51 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
33:52 Bill Simmons? He uses the phrase morass of absurdity at one point.
33:55 Speaker 01 Ah, man. Poet. Poet. He's not alone in, in his opinion of this movie. This is not exactly a, a critically adored. Forty percent something rotten. Forty-nine percent on the old RT, I believe.
34:07 Bill Simmons? Sad day, I remember where I took my wife, my future wife, to see this movie. And I remember where we saw it and it was fine.
34:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:14 Bill Simmons? But I, I think as the years have passed, I think it's become a better hang.
34:18 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
34:18 Bill Simmons? It's a really good throw it on movie.
34:21 Speaker 01 Interesting.
34:21 Bill Simmons? You can just kind of be on as you're doing something else. It's just pleasant, pleasant fun hang. Taking a break and we do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate. Clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Trivia.
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35:39 Bill Simmons? All right, I'm gonna throw some most rewatchable scenes at you. The first 25 minutes are tough.
35:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:45 Bill Simmons? Where it's a lot of like setup, setup, setup.
35:49 Bill Simmons? It's really the dinner double date.
35:52 Speaker 01 That's your first rewatchable scene?
35:53 Bill Simmons? Well, you could pick any small ones, like binoculars, jump scare. I'm just kinda moving us along.
35:58 Chris Ryan? Here's the thing, the first time through, the binoculars, the jump scare through the fence, all very cool.
36:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:04 Chris Ryan? Multiple times through, you're like, I know the furies are like a complete red herring. So the first half hour of this movie is kinda for nothing.
36:12 Bill Simmons? I feel like you could start this 25 minutes in and you're okay.
36:14 Chris Ryan? But you're right, the dinner scene is awesome.
36:17 Bill Simmons? I love double dates where we're just getting info and we're picking apart couples and I'm getting little clues.
36:23 Chris Ryan? The cross talk is great.
36:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, you're really straining.
36:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
36:26 Speaker 03 Like when you first watched it, or when you rewatch it, do you, do you listen to the men or the women?
36:32 Speaker 01 Well, this is an interesting litmus test, isn't it?
36:35 Chris Ryan? I listen to the women.
36:36 Speaker 01 I listen to the men!
36:37 Chris Ryan? As an ally, yeah.
36:38 Bill Simmons? I listen to whoever Michelle Pfeiffer is talking to.
36:41 Speaker 01 Well, she's talking to Elena, so you're listening to the women, I'm listening to, I'm hanging on Harrison Ford's every word.
36:45 Chris Ryan? But it's kind of amazing because.
36:46 Bill Simmons? That's a really good scene.
36:47 Chris Ryan? Stan gives away the movie because he's like, did you hear about Bo whatever?
36:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, Bo Flannan cardio.
36:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and he's like, wow, they really don't play with those things anymore, do they, you know?
36:57 Speaker 01 And he seems nervous. Norman seems a little nervous. The only thing before that that I think you have to mention, unless we're gonna just talk about all the sex stuff later, is Claire and Norman trying to like, compete with the fur, the furies fucking, that's memorable and rewatchable.
37:12 Chris Ryan? That's fair.
37:12 Speaker 01 I don't see a way that that's not rewatchable. Have you, do you notice when you revisit that, that Harrison Ford's hands are the same size as the entire?
37:20 Chris Ryan? No.
37:20 Speaker 01 Keyboard?
37:21 Chris Ryan? Didn't notice that.
37:21 Bill Simmons? Didn't pick that up that time.
37:22 Speaker 01 Keep an eye out, next time you look. How about the way that when he leans back forward and he's like, do some more of that Norman's, the genius stuff, Michelle Pfeiffer's leg is on his shoulder, you know what he's doing down there?
37:34 Speaker 01 Very memorable.
37:35 Bill Simmons? And he regrets seeing her.
37:37 Chris Ryan? I'm fine with it.
37:37 Speaker 01 Very rewatchable.
37:38 Chris Ryan? Body with her for a while.
37:44 Bill Simmons? I've been watching Game of Thrones in the sauna.
37:45 Speaker 01 I have so many questions about it. I mean, I'm thrilled you're revisiting.
37:48 Bill Simmons? I feel like it could be our next Ringer rewatch pod.
37:52 Speaker 01 We've done that before.
37:53 Bill Simmons? No.
37:53 Speaker 01 Sure.
37:54 Bill Simmons? No, same IP. Same IP, just me in a sauna going, whoa!
37:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:00 Bill Simmons? Red Wedding! And then the pod's over.
38:02 Speaker 01 That would be great. I think your recap where you don't know a single character's name would be really, like, would have a lot of utility for people. The blonde one!
38:09 Bill Simmons? In the sauna, I know the names now because I'm so hot, I actually have to concentrate.
38:14 Speaker 01 Oh, interesting.
38:15 Bill Simmons? So it's like, oh, Sansa.
38:18 Speaker 01 Look at this guy!
38:19 Bill Simmons? It's King Robert Baratheon.
38:21 Speaker 01 Bobby B. Yeah.
38:22 Bill Simmons? Bobby B.'s in there.
38:23 Speaker 01 Hit him with a hammer. Look at you!
38:24 Bill Simmons? Hey, Joffrey!
38:25 Speaker 01 Oh my god, this guy.
38:27 Bill Simmons? I gotta say, really fun getting back together with the gang.
38:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a great show. I mean, disastrous ending, obviously.
38:31 Chris Ryan? Are you gonna watch the new one?
38:32 Speaker 01 Disastrous.
38:33 Bill Simmons? Well, that's why I'm kinda setting this up to maybe keep going.
38:36 Chris Ryan? Well, the new one's set before this.
38:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, it starts in a week and a half.
38:39 Bill Simmons? No, 1100s?
38:40 Chris Ryan? Uh, yeah. Yeah, Dark Ages.
38:43 Bill Simmons? Joanna didn't know that joke.
38:45 Speaker 01 I know.
38:46 Bill Simmons? I think she seriously thought I thought it was in the 1300s.
38:48 Speaker 01 Well, on some level, you do seriously think that, so.
38:51 Bill Simmons? You don't know that it's not.
38:54 Bill Simmons? Next rewatch of a scene, Claire finds a full bathtub in a steamy bathroom and a waterlogged ghost in the reflection. This is arguably a, I'm outta here, stay in a hotel from now on.
39:05 Speaker 01 I would.
39:05 Bill Simmons? Moment.
39:06 Speaker 01 I would simply leave. Yeah.
39:07 Bill Simmons? I don't know if I'm back in the house after this.
39:09 Chris Ryan? But I do like the anxiety of both the marriage and the renovation project that they seem to have undertaken with this house of being like, we just, I'm fucking not leaving this place, okay? Like, I've been rebuilding it.
39:23 Bill Simmons? We've come this far.
39:23 Chris Ryan? For 10 years. You know, this is Norman's dad's place, but we gutted it, we got it all.
39:28 Speaker 01 The DuPont chair. It's all, actually, I think that's actually kind of one of the weird things about rewatching the movie is realizing how much of the key plot is really about the last year.
39:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
39:37 Speaker 01 This year of key events in our lives, obviously the car crash, everything with Madison, the DuPont chair, but it does make me wonder, have they done all of the renovations in that span of time?
39:44 Bill Simmons? Some amnesia in there.
39:45 Chris Ryan? They mentioned it during the dinner, I can't remember, but they're like, that's his joke, is like, my dad is haunting us because he's so mad at what we did to the house. Yeah.
39:53 Bill Simmons? We could've thrown in a scene with a kid that went to college being like, my mom's been fucking batshit for like a year.
40:00 Chris Ryan? I wanna get to Caitlin in a second.
40:01 Bill Simmons? Okay. Uh, next one.
40:05 Bill Simmons? The Ouija board scene.
40:06 Speaker 01 No question. This is a great one.
40:08 Bill Simmons? I have multiple things I wrote down here, including. Has there ever been a bad Ouija board scene?
40:13 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
40:13 Bill Simmons? Ever? There has been.
40:16 Chris Ryan? Uh, no, no. Is there a bad Ouija board scene? No.
40:19 Bill Simmons? I don't ever remember watching a movie in any capacity or a TV show or anything where they're like, let's bring out the Ouija board. It always works. I'm always like, how can you guys do this?
40:30 Chris Ryan? Have you ever done a Ouija board?
40:31 Bill Simmons? I would never.
40:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
40:33 Bill Simmons? Ever, ever do that.
40:34 Speaker 01 When I was a kid.
40:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
40:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, when you like pretend you say you put, light some candles, you sit in a circle.
40:38 Bill Simmons? Never do that.
40:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah, we used them in like middle school and high school and stuff.
40:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cause you don't know any better. If you're a fucking adult using Ouija board, like what are you doing?
40:45 Speaker 01 Well, and look what happened. The lights flickered, the candle went out, and then Cooper. Great Cooper action in this scene in particular. I have some notes for Cooper, cause like he obviously can sense that things are amiss. He won't go into his favorite spot of water to get his favorite ball anymore. But he hasn't like totally turned heel and abandoned his loyalty to Norman. But when he busts into the bathroom here, scares the shit out of them, it's high comedy.
41:08 Chris Ryan? Like, I mean, I know you guys love dogs, but like, I don't think he's making it.
41:11 Speaker 01 They're the most intuitive animals, they're the most intuitive creatures.
41:13 Chris Ryan? He doesn't understand the depths of Norman's depravity.
41:15 Speaker 01 Well.
41:16 Bill Simmons? Can I break the tiebreaker here? I wrote down Cooper the dog just crushing it.
41:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, thank you. Bill gets it and always has.
41:24 Bill Simmons? I thought it was a great performance by him. He seemed like a great dog. I thought he could have been a little more loyal.
41:29 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
41:30 Bill Simmons? In a couple of spots, but.
41:31 Speaker 01 But like when he barks, you know, when we see the muddy footprints and we worry it's gonna be Warren and then it's Norman, cause they're late to dinner. Like Cooper, on some level, he sensed something was amiss.
41:40 Bill Simmons? Well, this leads right into her screaming at my guy, James Remar, at the party, which was just a good payoff for the red herring.
41:47 Chris Ryan? Yes.
41:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:48 Bill Simmons? My wife's, what does he say? My wife's right here.
41:51 Chris Ryan? I didn't kill my wife.
41:52 Bill Simmons? I didn't kill my wife.
41:53 Speaker 01 Way too calm.
41:54 Bill Simmons? She's right here.
41:54 Speaker 01 Way too calm. Definitely it's some, one of my unanswerable questions is that how many years into the future does Warren kill Mary? Because for sure he kills her.
42:01 Chris Ryan? Uh, he just leaves her for a student.
42:05 Bill Simmons? Or maybe both.
42:05 Speaker 01 Not mutually exclusive.
42:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's true.
42:07 Bill Simmons? He might have gone same game parlay. Tried to get both of those in there.
42:13 Speaker 01 Oh, man.
42:14 Bill Simmons? Old meddling lady at the party and to her realizing, Michelle Pfeiffer realizing who M E F, Madison Elizabeth Frank was.
42:23 Chris Ryan? But also, like, that's the point where she's starting to realize, like, oh, there's a huge chunk of my life that I don't remember. Like, this, the car accident that I think is fine, that everybody else is so alarmed about, and having this freak out at the party.
42:36 Bill Simmons? That's how I, that's how I feel about all the podcasts I did in 2020.
42:39 Speaker 01 They're gone.
42:40 Bill Simmons? Speaking of 2021.
42:41 Speaker 01 They're gone.
42:41 Bill Simmons? I listen to them now, it's like somebody else did them.
42:44 Speaker 01 Have you ever had a moment where, like, you're prone over a desk, doing whatever you might be doing, and you look back, a gust of wind catches your ear, and then in the mirror you see yourself, pottin' about Alex Bregman?
42:56 Bill Simmons? It might be happening soon.
42:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
42:59 Bill Simmons? It's like, oh, man, I did Saturday Night Fever with Jimmy Kimmel. This is gonna be good.
43:05 Speaker 01 How do you feel about red apples and lit candles near your genitals?
43:09 Bill Simmons? That, I didn't like the lit candles. I did not like that. You know what I did like? My next rewatchable scene, Possess Claire.
43:15 Speaker 01 This is the best.
43:16 Bill Simmons? All caps, yes, this is my most rewatchable scene.
43:18 Speaker 01 No question.
43:19 Bill Simmons? Pfeiffer just, just breaking it out, you know, it's like...
43:24 Speaker 01 Spreading the legs.
43:25 Bill Simmons? I'll throw them in the low 90s, but if you don't think I can still get to 101, watch this.
43:29 Speaker 01 It is 104.
43:31 Chris Ryan? It is hard, because it's like where she basically is like, I could have done Basic Instinct, you know, like, I have this in my bag.
43:38 Bill Simmons? She had the side.
43:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:39 Bill Simmons? It was the side she never really, she, Fabulous Baker Boy is probably the closest, A Little in Scarface, um, Dangerous Minds, I didn't want to go near there, and that's the one where they really could have, they cut out all the Andy Garcia stuff in that movie. But yeah, she never really, she always wanted to kind of levitate above it. I respect it.
43:57 Chris Ryan? It's so great how long Norm's just like, I'm kind of into this. You know what I mean? Like, for like, the, it's really, really, really, it takes her for a while.
44:04 Speaker 01 I mean, who can blame him, right? Like, the apple, the, the rough bite of the apple, very weird, very funny, obviously disarming, but when she sits on the step, when she's waiting in the step of the office with the candle in front of her and opens her legs, I mean, come on, his expression there is absolutely fucking priceless.
44:19 Chris Ryan? This is amazing.
44:21 Bill Simmons? I guess Catwoman was probably the time she turned it on the most, right?
44:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, Catwoman is very sexy role.
44:27 Bill Simmons? You've seen that clip where she uses the whip and hits the five things all in sequence, and then the crew starts applauding?
44:34 Chris Ryan? For the, for the Batman movie, no.
44:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's like, it's one of those, like, a camera far away.
44:38 Chris Ryan? Incredible.
44:38 Bill Simmons? And she's like, alright, action. And she's like.
44:41 Chris Ryan? And everybody goes nuts.
44:42 Bill Simmons? And everyone's like.
44:44 Speaker 01 I mean, who can blame them? What do you think she whispers into his ear? Cause there's like, I timed it, it's like 3.4 seconds. I'm not sure how quick I was on the trigger that we don't hear.
44:52 Chris Ryan? There isn't like, any speculation about this. I looked for this online and I couldn't find any.
44:56 Bill Simmons? Not on the subtitles either.
44:57 Speaker 01 Do you think she whispered something very, very, very sexy? Or just like.
45:01 Bill Simmons? Naughty, like X rated.
45:03 Chris Ryan? Cause he's getting pretty fired up.
45:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:05 Bill Simmons? A term that we've never heard of.
45:07 Chris Ryan? Claire has that dress just in the back of the closet, or, or is that something she purchased special, or?
45:12 Speaker 01 Hmm, I think she has it around, you know, they're clearly like, they have some like, galas, nights in the town. So in this, this stretch where, you know, we are obviously gonna see the, the flash of green, this, that's like the most iconic moment from the movie, right? I mean, I guess you could say some of the bathtub reflections and stuff like that, but, you know, who? Glowing green eyes, your wife. That's like, whether or not you've seen the film, you've seen that moment, for sure.
45:35 Bill Simmons? True.
45:37 Bill Simmons? Just a short one, but broken Claire, jumping right into the lake. It's good, I like the way it shot, possible great Chuck Gordo for CR. Claire finds the buried chest.
45:47 Speaker 01 Yep.
45:48 Bill Simmons? Leading into semi-crying, confessing Harrison Ford, which I'm just, sorry Mal, I'm giving him the Ruffalo Hannah Rubin, a partridge over acting word.
45:55 Speaker 01 What?
45:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't think.
45:56 Speaker 01 It's such a subtle restraint performance.
45:58 Bill Simmons? Cryer, I thought it was kinda bad.
46:00 Chris Ryan? He does a good, like, the prayer hands thing is good, but yeah, like what he's.
46:06 Speaker 01 What should I have done? Should I sacrifice everything, our marriage, my work that I spent my whole life over? I was compelled.
46:14 Bill Simmons? Claire redials 411.
46:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:16 Bill Simmons? And evil Harrison Ford is here. And he has some weird drug I've never heard of that paralyzes you for six minutes.
46:22 Chris Ryan? Comes up earlier in the movie.
46:23 Speaker 01 Chekhov's paralytic agent, right? From earlier in the movie, when she goes to the lab and they're like, yeah, somewhere between five to three seconds. And like, you can't move, but your mind, you know, you're aware of everything.
46:33 Bill Simmons? Halothane. We should have given this to Sean when I was doing my top 50 rewatch list.
46:40 Bill Simmons? He's just paralyzed in the same trying to like move his foot as I do limitless.
46:44 Speaker 01 Every five minutes hit him with another. A little dose.
46:48 Bill Simmons? I wrote down, is this the paralyzing drug the Eagles give Jalen Hurts when they're up 20?
46:52 Chris Ryan? That's one for one.
46:53 Speaker 01 Boy, tough.
46:55 Bill Simmons? It's a fair question. Greg laughed.
46:57 Speaker 01 Very tough. Very, very tough.
46:59 Bill Simmons? Come on, take some shots at my team, guys.
47:01 Chris Ryan? No, I'm just gonna wait.
47:02 Speaker 01 What are we gonna say?
47:03 Chris Ryan? I think this is bad karma for you. Cause by the time this comes out, you will have played.
47:07 Speaker 01 I like this energy.
47:08 Chris Ryan? Just keep that in mind.
47:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's fair. It's fair. I'll make a joke about the Pats later. Try to reverse karma. Drowning scene and then car crash ending. Incredible job by the waterlogged ghost corpse.
47:20 Chris Ryan? This is.
47:21 Bill Simmons? Breaking through and saving the day.
47:23 Chris Ryan? I, I have to say, I disagree with the appearance of the ghost in such a physical form in that place. I feel like in the, for the most part, for the rest of the movie, it's like a suggestion. It's a image in the mirror, you know.
47:34 Speaker 01 Taken over the computer.
47:36 Chris Ryan? Kind of that kind of thing. I guess that's home turf. I guess that's like, you're going to play the ghost in It's Jim, so they can move around a little bit more.
47:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:45 Chris Ryan? But it was just like Harrison Ford seeing her and getting yanked, basically was, I just thought broke a little bit of a fourth wall.
47:52 Speaker 01 Why don't you want a woman to be in control of her own body?
47:55 Chris Ryan? I'm fine with it. Just play by the same rules for the entire movie.
47:59 Bill Simmons? Tarantino texted Zemeckis and was like, my one nitpick.
48:03 Chris Ryan? Not enough feet.
48:03 Bill Simmons? I didn't like the corpse. On the bright side, the feet stuff was great.
48:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
48:09 Bill Simmons? What's your most rewatchable?
48:10 Chris Ryan? Uh, I honestly think it might be that dinner scene.
48:12 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
48:13 Chris Ryan? I really think it's very cool. I know that the obvious one is.
48:15 Bill Simmons? That number two for me.
48:16 Speaker 01 Desk, desk sex, for sure.
48:18 Bill Simmons? Possessed Fife is the best. Uh, what's the most 2000 thing about this movie? I have slow modem speeds and not having a cellphone camera as proof for your suspicions on something.
48:30 Chris Ryan? I had having to drive a distance to get a cellphone signal.
48:33 Bill Simmons? Oh.
48:33 Speaker 01 I had hitting redial to a landline to see if somebody called before.
48:37 Bill Simmons? That's good.
48:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:38 Bill Simmons? Special category, we don't give it, uh, get to give it away that often. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate.
48:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
48:44 Bill Simmons? The house. So Addison Vermont, banks of Lake Champlain. And they built this from scratch, 3,500 square foot, Nantucket style. Uh, and did so much filming in the bathroom that they made five different bathrooms.
49:01 Bill Simmons? Probably arguably the most bathroom filming.
49:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
49:05 Bill Simmons? In a movie?
49:05 Chris Ryan? There's a lot of bathrooms in Trainspotting.
49:08 Bill Simmons? Eyes Wide Shut were in the bathroom for a while.
49:09 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm, sure.
49:10 Bill Simmons? Fatal Attraction were in there for a little bit.
49:12 Speaker 01 Is it, it's not the master bathroom though, right? It is. It's like there's a door from the hallway end from their bedroom. Oh, okay. I found that was odd that they're always entering like off the stairwell. You would have gone further with the renovation, is what I'm hearing. Maybe. Seal that off.
49:25 Chris Ryan? Do you think an en suite bathroom shouldn't have a hallway entrance?
49:27 Speaker 01 No. Yeah, I agree with you on this.
49:29 Bill Simmons? Needs like a better door lock if you're gonna do that.
49:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
49:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
49:33 Bill Simmons? Well sadly they tore the house down after filming. Didn't meet local building codes.
49:37 Speaker 01 Wasn't like a real house.
49:38 Bill Simmons? Ass in Vermont.
49:40 Speaker 01 It's just like a shell.
49:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
49:41 Speaker 01 Looked great though.
49:42 Bill Simmons? They filmed some stuff in LA too. What stage is the best? I have a bunch, but what do you have? Anything good?
49:47 Chris Ryan? Uh, Cassie Harrison Ford is a guy who tries to kill his wife after the fugitive where he plays a guy who's wrongly accused of killing his wife.
49:53 Speaker 01 No question, yeah.
49:54 Chris Ryan? Um, I like how Zemeckis is constantly subtly moving the camera so that it feels like you are watching Michelle Pfeiffer from a ghost POV. Uh, Steven Soderbergh just made a movie that is this, it is this presence where you're, it's like a haunted house movie from the ghost's perspective. But this is really cool cause like you can always see, like whenever Michelle Pfeiffer is walking around, like the camera's just kind of always slowly following her, but then like kind of going back and it just feels like something is always watching her. So I always really liked that.
50:27 Speaker 01 I like that.
50:27 Bill Simmons? What do you have, Mel?
50:28 Speaker 01 Hmm, I think on the like Chekhov's X list, that's, that's a pretty fun part of it. We already talked about the, the paralyzing agent, the mystery key, the newspaper clipping from the DuPont chair night and how key that's gonna be, no cell service until you get to the middle of the bridge. Um, you know, the boat, the being hooked to the bed of the truck, like all of these little things. I think we, we will, I assume, talk later about maybe the parts of the script that don't quite measure up, but I think the like, this is actually go, we're telling you this or showing you this because it is going to prove vital in the final stretch, that's successful.
51:03 Bill Simmons? I had that as well, the subtle foreshadowing.
51:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:06 Bill Simmons? I like when movies kind of plant like these little seemingly harmless things and then. Circles back and then like, oh yeah, she can't get. Oh, I.
51:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like, we're not in this lab for no reason.
51:16 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
51:16 Speaker 01 Just because she's visiting him at work, like we're gonna hear about something that matters.
51:20 Bill Simmons? My daughter's generation, they're on their phone during that first part of the movie and they completely.
51:24 Chris Ryan? They're just like, what's it, what the hell?
51:25 Bill Simmons? Why can't he get receptions? Again, we fucking covered this.
51:28 Speaker 01 Well, I'll tell you what no generation could possibly miss. It's the symbolism 101 stuff on display on the adamant trip that you would have preferred to remove from the movie.
51:35 Bill Simmons? Oh.
51:36 Speaker 01 Is this a little too like obvious on the nose, maybe? But I actually think in this movie, it's very effective and it works. You have, the, the shop is called Sleeping Dog, right?
51:44 Bill Simmons? Give me a break.
51:45 Speaker 01 Yes, come on, right? The Georgia O'Keeffe-esque design of the pendant and the like sigil on the jewelry box, which is basically like a mashup of a heart, a flower and a vagina. Like what could be more perfect for the thing to be deck your mistress with? And then the Celtic knot.
52:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
52:06 Speaker 01 On the key, because that's like an interesting one, because of course you have all the different aspects of that symbolism. You know, unity, faith, love, et cetera. But also this idea of like unending life with a ghostly specter. And also just the, the triple, the, the triple aspect of it, the trio. I think that's kind of, um, again, not subtle, very 101, but kind of fun to, to look for on a rewatch.
52:26 Bill Simmons? I had famous movie stars in a well-done movie, which we discussed earlier. I had Vermont as a scary movie location.
52:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
52:35 Bill Simmons? I had, uh, any super attractive actress playing the cello? Sure.
52:39 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
52:39 Speaker 01 Always good.
52:40 Chris Ryan? Any other examples of that?
52:41 Speaker 01 You've really got to wrap your body around that.
52:43 Bill Simmons? But I just feel like that's gonna work. Um, I have dangerous bath scenes, but also dangerous things happening in a bathroom. We spend so much time in bathrooms.
52:53 Chris Ryan? Harrison Ford hitting his head on the sink is.
52:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
52:56 Chris Ryan? One of my worst fears.
52:57 Bill Simmons? Right.
52:58 Chris Ryan? For myself, not for Harrison Ford.
53:00 Bill Simmons? Also like just going into your bathroom and the, and the bathtub's full and you didn't fill it up.
53:04 Chris Ryan? That happened to me once. Yeah, that one, we got back from vacation once, there was like a clog and the bath, like just the drip had filled up the entire bathtub.
53:13 Bill Simmons? Oh my god, CR.
53:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:15 Bill Simmons? Fatal Attraction, I think, in this is in the finals for best bathroom scene. We did Fatal Attraction a long time ago.
53:22 Speaker 01 We sure did.
53:22 Bill Simmons? We spent most of the time talking about how he came home after two days of fucking Glenn Close. He gave his dog spaghetti meatballs, which is the single worst thing anyone's ever done in a movie.
53:31 Speaker 01 Absolutely demented.
53:32 Bill Simmons? And Bauer's still upset.
53:35 Speaker 01 Fucking demented.
53:36 Bill Simmons? Just a complete violation as a dog owner.
53:37 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
53:38 Bill Simmons? Speaking of dogs.
53:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, Cooper.
53:40 Bill Simmons? When dogs know something is wrong, evil, or off in some way.
53:44 Speaker 01 Yep.
53:44 Bill Simmons? Always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know. They always know.
53:47 Speaker 01 They do. Animals are very intuitive. They really are.
53:50 Bill Simmons? And then this is, this is an amazing one. You won't be prepared for this one.
53:56 Chris Ryan? Okay.
53:56 Bill Simmons? For what's aged the best. This was a big deal for me and my high school friends in 2000. My friend Scott Carino, who I went to high school with, and moved to LA to try to become an actor, and was in like Extra, Melrose Place, 90210, and kind of, his, the biggest thing I think he did, he's the dead husband in the photo of Michelle Pfeiffer.
54:18 Speaker 01 No, really? Oh my god.
54:20 Bill Simmons? My high school friend Scott Carino.
54:22 Chris Ryan? Oh my god.
54:23 Speaker 01 What?
54:23 Bill Simmons? So he's in two of the photos, and uh, my, my buddy Jeff, the, my best friend, the guy, the Halloween, I've talked about him on the pod, who loved Carino, and was a big character for us, and he, it was like the highlight of 2000.
54:36 Chris Ryan? Do you have any idea, like, what does somebody get paid for something like that?
54:39 Bill Simmons? You get paid as an extra. We asked him.
54:41 Chris Ryan? Okay.
54:41 Bill Simmons? You get like, it's like, uh, single still, whatever. I don't know if, you don't get a speaking line, so you don't get that part, but you get.
54:48 Speaker 01 Right.
54:49 Bill Simmons? The whatever, but yeah.
54:50 Speaker 01 That's incredible.
54:51 Chris Ryan? Does he get residuals?
54:52 Bill Simmons? Like. Basically, he was married to Michelle Pfeiffer.
54:55 Speaker 03 If you're non-union, no.
54:56 Speaker 01 Iconic.
54:57 Bill Simmons? I should've, I should've taken a picture of it and showed you guys.
54:59 Speaker 03 Probably got like 500 bucks.
55:00 Chris Ryan? That's crazy.
55:01 Speaker 01 That's another real 2000's aspect of this movie too, is like the physical photo album.
55:06 Chris Ryan? I know, and also keeping newspaper articles and stuff like that.
55:10 Speaker 01 You don't have, you just have your camera on your phone. You're not gonna like sit down and spookily discover something in your hands in the basement anymore.
55:17 Bill Simmons? So obviously, I was. You did what was Pfeiffer like and just they photoshopped this thing.
55:24 Speaker 01 I was gonna say, there's no way he actually got to take those pictures.
55:26 Bill Simmons? He did have some good Melrose play stories.
55:28 Chris Ryan? That's good.
55:28 Speaker 01 I bet.
55:29 Bill Simmons? Apparently Vanessa Marcel was really attractive. Still remember that from way back when. Great check order award. What do you have, CR?
55:37 Chris Ryan? When she comes down at the fence and the eye is in the, when she's looking through the fence.
55:41 Bill Simmons? I like those.
55:42 Chris Ryan? And then the eye is right there.
55:44 Bill Simmons? That is batting a thousand when people do that. When they're looking through the thing and then the face comes on the other side. I don't know if that's ever not worked. Hey, new category. The Dr. Richard Kimball inappropriate body award goes to Harris Ford again.
55:59 Chris Ryan? Where'd it go?
56:00 Bill Simmons? We only give it to Harris Ford. Guy's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game.
56:05 Speaker 03 That was my flex.
56:06 Speaker 01 He looks, he looks perfect.
56:08 Speaker 03 We gotta change the name of the category.
56:09 Speaker 01 He looks perfect.
56:10 Speaker 03 He's 10, he's seven years older than Richard Kimball, Dr. Norman Spencer, and he's way 3% less body fat than Richard Kimball.
56:17 Chris Ryan? I gotta say, cause I know that this is coming out on Monday, right?
56:20 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:21 Chris Ryan? We get shirtless Sam Elliott in this episode of Landman and it's fucking incredible. Like it looks like he's carved out of a tree trunk. It's unbelievable and it's very similar body type to 57 year olds.
56:33 Speaker 03 And you could argue Kimball makes more sense than this guy. This guy's 57. He's allegedly obsessed with his work, always at work. He lives in Vermont. It's raining all the time. Why is this guy so chiseled?
56:43 Chris Ryan? Two, uh, two responses. One, he's constantly jamming on undergrads and two,
56:48 Speaker 03 Okay.
56:48 Chris Ryan? he's boating.
56:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's sex muscles.
56:50 Speaker 01 We'll come back to that cause I have a, I have a counterpoint to the constantly part of that, which will come back to another. Come back to that in another category, put a pin in it. But you know, they boat, right? They talk about taking drives. They're active. I mean, maybe it's not a bit of a lull.
57:02 Speaker 03 They're sailing.
57:03 Speaker 01 They're like, I think it's just, yeah, they're fucking all the time.
57:05 Speaker 03 More ripped than any current NFL quarterback in this movie.
57:08 Speaker 01 He looks great.
57:09 Chris Ryan? And he probably eats like three bowls of Wheaties in the morning, has a piece of toast.
57:13 Speaker 01 The occasional bite of a red apple from his possessed wife's hands, you know?
57:16 Speaker 03 He's crazy jacked in this movie. Why is he so jacked? Was there a movie before this that he needed to be big for?
57:20 Speaker 01 He's just always been in shape, always.
57:22 Bill Simmons? Imagine if you gave him like the peptides or some of the stuff the athletes use, would he just turn into like Barry Bonds in 2001?
57:28 Chris Ryan? No, but that's, that's what makes him so aspirational. It's like a real body. It's not.
57:32 Speaker 01 Exactly. It's like, yeah, when he's chugging lemonade in witness, you're like, yeah, you could have that sugar.
57:39 Speaker 03 The, the scientist Norman Spencer award for inappropriate body. More than Kimball, right?
57:44 Bill Simmons? It is better because he's older. Yeah.
57:47 Speaker 01 It's just always, it always makes sense to me. It always makes sense to me. He was Indiana Jones. I don't know what to say.
57:52 Bill Simmons? Sierra's got a flex category.
57:55 Chris Ryan? In honor of fantasy, let's do the stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.
58:00 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
58:01 Chris Ryan? Uh, most of the Fures plot is an homage, an homage to Rear Window.
58:05 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
58:05 Chris Ryan? Uh, the Claire Madison ghost look-alike stuff is all vertigo.
58:09 Speaker 01 Yep.
58:09 Chris Ryan? And the score, the Alan Silvestri score is an homage to Bernard Herrmann's Bobby Z.
58:15 Bill Simmons? Just fucking cracking it.
58:16 Chris Ryan? Loves Hitchcock.
58:16 Bill Simmons? And all the toe stuff was an homage to Tarantino. It's a secret surprise for his buddy. Oh, the Mallory Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?
58:26 Chris Ryan? Oh, man.
58:27 Bill Simmons? Honestly, always such a, such a delight.
58:30 Chris Ryan? It's his last, last possession with the hogs.
58:33 Bill Simmons? Five out of offense. Just go in the corner.
58:35 Speaker 01 So, I'm torn. Because on the one hand, I think the fact that we pull away from all of the glimpses of what their sex life is like is like part of what adds to the tantalizing nature of it. So at the beginning, you know, when Caitlin is still around, it's the like, we'll be quiet. Quick and quiet. I don't want to be either. Mmm. You're like, I would just watch them fuck, of course. But the fact that we don't feels appropriate for where we are in the movie. Then we get to the first night as empty nesters and they can hear Warren and Mary.
59:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
59:09 Speaker 01 Decibels rising along with that erection, right? They're going at it. Close the windows? No. Open them. Think we can take them. It's worth a try. And we get, again, like the leg over the shoulder, he's going down on her. Like, this is like, when I watch the rest of the scene, happily and without complaint. But it's fun to just like get a little glimpse of what their life is like. You know, you want to fool around. She's pretending to read, waiting for him to finish his work. You get the sense that this could just be every night in their life. And then, of course, we learn that there's a period of time where it wasn't.
59:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
59:41 Speaker 01 And that is why he's strayed. Also, he's a sociopath. And then the desk scene, I mean, the biting of the lip, the tearing of the shirt, that scene is like, pretty close to perfect. So I don't know where else we would introduce a sex scene.
59:56 Chris Ryan? That seems like it's more his speed. That seems like it's what he's looking for in the bedroom.
1:00:00 Speaker 01 A torn shirt and a bit lip. And he's like, he's pretending like it's too rough, but that's part of the game.
1:00:04 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:00:05 Speaker 01 That's part of the game. Yeah, see, I think what Norman really wants is like, he wants when he's looking at her. On the step with the candle and the apple and legs wide. He definitely wants to just sit there and like, watch her masturbate. That's their vibe, I think. Right?
1:00:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 So we could have gotten that? That would have been great?
1:00:22 Bill Simmons? It's just a shame I didn't have any thoughts.
1:00:25 Speaker 01 Could we have gotten a Madison flashback? Like, could Madison have somehow shown us something about their sex as a point of contrast? Obviously, the physical resemblance that is incorporated into the plot of the movie could have been used to dupe us, where we think we're watching Claire and Norman and realize we're watching Madison and Norman?
1:00:43 Bill Simmons? For the most part, he shied away from the sex, sex stuff.
1:00:47 Chris Ryan? Ford?
1:00:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:48 Speaker 01 Well, this is like, yeah.
1:00:50 Bill Simmons? Presumed Innocent, I think, is the furthest he went.
1:00:52 Speaker 01 Pumping away on the desk in Presumed Innocent is notably distinct.
1:00:55 Chris Ryan? What's the Polenski one where he's running around in Paris?
1:00:57 Speaker 01 Frantic. He starts cocaine in a toilet stall in that movie. That's very memorable as well.
1:01:01 Bill Simmons? There's not like a crazy sex scene in that.
1:01:02 Speaker 01 There's a lot of sexual energy in that movie, though. That's a good movie.
1:01:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, speaking of sexual energy, the Dennis Peck Relationship Test is our next category.
1:01:12 Chris Ryan? I wish they would have given it its real category name.
1:01:15 Bill Simmons? Rewatchable, uh...
1:01:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. Come on, commit.
1:01:19 Bill Simmons? Named after, um...
1:01:20 Chris Ryan? The Dennis Peck, "I'm gonna make your wife come."
1:01:24 Bill Simmons? So the mailbag question of this was, uh... I think it's, "I'm gonna teach your wife."
1:01:29 Chris Ryan? Teach your wife. Sorry, I didn't mean to get the line right.
1:01:32 Speaker 01 It's an important distinction.
1:01:34 Bill Simmons? It was about how strong was the key relationship in the movie? Could Dennis Peck have basically uprooted it and... by doing Dennis Peck stuff? Would you leave the female character alone with Dennis Peck for 15 minutes? Could he get to her? I would say, wholeheartedly, yes, in this case.
1:01:49 Chris Ryan? I think she was even kind of struck by, uh, Raymar. She was just like, "This guy's throwing off some interesting energy."
1:01:56 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cuz she's still a little...
1:01:57 Speaker 01 He's got some nice hair in that movie.
1:01:58 Bill Simmons? Little spurn from the affair.
1:02:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:00 Bill Simmons? Still in the back of her head and the deep recesses.
1:02:02 Chris Ryan? She's always home alone, just kinda like this guy in his research paper.
1:02:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:05 Bill Simmons? Dennis Peck comes over, hits the front door of the night, saying, "Hey, I heard there's some commotion over here."
1:02:11 Chris Ryan? The fucking Stades from Vermont.
1:02:12 Speaker 01 They're fixing the lock, maybe calls a locksmith to deal with the door.
1:02:16 Chris Ryan? Dennis Peck locksmith?
1:02:17 Bill Simmons? What's a beautiful lady like you doing alone on a Saturday?
1:02:19 Speaker 01 My computer's on the fritz. An electrician to deal with the power surge.
1:02:22 Chris Ryan? He's got his polo tucked into his jeans. He's just like, nice boat.
1:02:26 Bill Simmons? Dennis Peck is locked in.
1:02:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. Anybody can blow up the marriage. I mean, obviously, that's part of the point, but certainly Dennis Peck.
1:02:31 Bill Simmons? This is easy. This is like child's play.
1:02:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's almost like this is spring training for this category.
1:02:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Like, he... The thing for him would be, he would probably not do it. Tanalize her with the, that she thinks they're gonna do it and then just keep.
1:02:45 Chris Ryan? His bigger challenge would probably be going after Harrison Ford.
1:02:47 Speaker 01 I was gonna say, it's really about can he get Norman? Yeah, exactly, exactly.
1:02:52 Bill Simmons? Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film, what do you have?
1:02:55 Chris Ryan? I gotta say, I think they left a little bit on the table with Jodi. I think she could have been a little witchier and I think if you get me Laura Sangio Como or Linda Fiorentino, like somebody who could also.
1:03:09 Bill Simmons? Sultry Italians.
1:03:10 Chris Ryan? Well, here's the thing, her admission that she has known that Norman has been cheating on her for a year is fucking not ride or die behavior.
1:03:20 Speaker 01 Terrible.
1:03:20 Chris Ryan? And would be like in any other movie or in another version of this movie, you'd be like, oh, maybe Jodi and Norman have a little thing going.
1:03:27 Speaker 01 Or maybe she hopes they will. I had this as a picky hit, but yeah, it's.
1:03:31 Bill Simmons? Pick as well.
1:03:32 Chris Ryan? But if you throw somebody's just.
1:03:33 Bill Simmons? Terrible friend.
1:03:34 Speaker 01 Awful, awful. And the excuse of like, you know, the car accident and you were in such a state and Norman was in such a state. It's like, who gives a shit? If you know my husband is fucking someone else, tell me.
1:03:44 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:03:45 Speaker 01 We're supposed to be best friends, but especially once I have asked you to start coming to my home to sit on the bathroom floor with a Ouija board. And you know, I'm going through it. At that point, definitely tell me.
1:03:55 Chris Ryan? But Jodi's also like, I got this car to pick up dudes. And it's like, I'm kinda, I kinda wanna know a little bit more about that. And I would have loved a little bit of a suggestion that she had something for Norman.
1:04:05 Bill Simmons? My, uh, my Butch's Girlfriend was who the fuck is cheating on Michelle Pfeiffer?
1:04:10 Speaker 01 So.
1:04:10 Bill Simmons? Come on.
1:04:11 Speaker 01 All right. I have a question for you about this.
1:04:15 Speaker 01 Is there a way you can swing this the other, to the other direction and say that this is actually kind of like, rather than being either inconceivable, which I agree, it is.
1:04:24 Bill Simmons? He just has to have like a sex addiction. That, I'll accept that answer.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 There's a part of, like, when you first confront it, it seems.
1:04:31 Bill Simmons? She's post, post, postpartum depression.
1:04:33 Speaker 01 It seems impossible that Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer, that their characters.
1:04:37 Chris Ryan? What does he say? He's like, we were having problems?
1:04:41 Speaker 01 Yeah. And yes, he's like, we were, we were struggling. And that gives you an excuse to fuck your students. But is there a way you can swing this? Instead of saying like, okay, well, people, when you're married, you never really know another person, the anxiety. You watch this movie, you're like, oh my God, if like Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford can't figure it out, what hope do the rest of us have? I swing the other way with it. I think it's like a kind of positive empowering thing when you're like, if even Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer are going through it, maybe we're all doing okay, actually.
1:05:11 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:05:12 Speaker 01 You know?
1:05:12 Bill Simmons? It's a W for all of us.
1:05:13 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:05:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:14 Chris Ryan? Marriage is hard.
1:05:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
1:05:15 Bill Simmons? Maybe you could get through the next Ravens Broncos playoff game, if it ever happens.
1:05:19 Speaker 01 Not in the same room.
1:05:20 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:05:21 Speaker 01 Not in the same room.
1:05:21 Bill Simmons? Not in the same room?
1:05:22 Speaker 01 No, we can't, oh no. When we lived in New York and they played in the playoffs, I took a train to Baltimore.
1:05:29 Speaker 01 And then more recently, we watched in different rooms.
1:05:30 Bill Simmons? Were you with Adam?
1:05:31 Speaker 01 We make Halo pick between a mini helmet.
1:05:32 Bill Simmons? For the Flacco 80 yard touchdown game?
1:05:34 Speaker 01 No, I went to Baltimore.
1:05:36 Bill Simmons? You, oh, so you didn't watch that with them?
1:05:37 Speaker 01 No, you stayed in New York and I went to Baltimore to watch with my dad.
1:05:40 Bill Simmons? And you stayed dating after that?
1:05:43 Speaker 01 Well, we're still married, so, yeah. Believe it or not.
1:05:46 Bill Simmons? That's a fucking traumatic game. I mean, that's like the most traumatic football loss of the last 15 years.
1:05:52 Chris Ryan? I can't even remember, what was that?
1:05:53 Speaker 01 For some.
1:05:54 Chris Ryan? What was that Broncos team?
1:05:55 Bill Simmons? It was the game's over.
1:05:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:56 Bill Simmons? Flacco throws basically a hail mary.
1:05:58 Chris Ryan? Jacoby Jones.
1:05:59 Speaker 01 Jacoby Jones.
1:05:59 Bill Simmons? To Jacoby Jones.
1:06:00 Speaker 01 Miracle at Mile High.
1:06:02 Bill Simmons? It's ridiculous. It's, it's, anytime it's on Twitter, I watch it and I'm like, I just can't fucking believe he got behind the defense when they're on their own 20 with like 30 seconds left.
1:06:13 Speaker 01 Fantastic stuff.
1:06:14 Bill Simmons? Uh, what's age the worst? We talked about a lot of this already. I, my big one was not recognizing immediately when your wife is possessed. Unless you think that he did, but he was kind of into it.
1:06:23 Speaker 01 Well, he does like knock her off of him at that point on the floor.
1:06:26 Bill Simmons? But there's like about two minutes there where you should know like, wait, what's going on?
1:06:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:32 Bill Simmons? Why are you acting like this?
1:06:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:34 Bill Simmons? Any other what's age the worst?
1:06:35 Chris Ryan? Um, there's a very funny, uh, point when Norm takes the, uh, Spells and Incantations book.
1:06:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's great.
1:06:42 Chris Ryan? And writes down on a legal pad, proposed suggestion, exorcism, dash, by fire, ex, like with underlining by fire.
1:06:50 Speaker 01 That's great.
1:06:50 Chris Ryan? It's just like a very funny cutaway, if there's no taking process and more, we've talked about the trailer, we talked about everything. But I just find this movie too unerotic to be considered an erotic thriller. And every time I start this movie, I'm like, oh, this is a really horny movie and it's just not.
1:07:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't, I never felt like it was an erotic thriller. I always just felt like it was a safe scary movie.
1:07:10 Chris Ryan? It sort of pitched that way in the trailer.
1:07:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, pitched that way in the trailer and certain scenes we get there, but I, I agree with you. I think, so this is where I'll come back to your constantly fucking.
1:07:17 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:07:18 Speaker 01 The undergrads.
1:07:18 Chris Ryan? Let's interrogate this.
1:07:19 Speaker 01 This is my what's age the worst. We've, like you said, we've hit a lot of the other ones. The idea that it is rare for somebody to find Norman Spencer, played by Harrison Ford, attractive is borderline disqualifying for the movie.
1:07:33 Speaker 03 It's that one line, he's like, she was attracted to me.
1:07:35 Speaker 01 And then out of nowhere, some bright young woman finds me attractive? Like, this has never happened?
1:07:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:07:39 Speaker 01 Again, in indie, the undergrads are lowering their eyes so that he can see written across their eyelids, "I love you, like, I wanna fuck you."
1:07:48 Speaker 03 You get the sense that-
1:07:49 Speaker 01 This should not be abnormal.
1:07:50 Speaker 03 That Norman is scrambling, though, to like, come up with things to say almost.
1:07:54 Chris Ryan? That's the thing, is that there's this Russian nesting doll of lies with him, where it's like, first it's, "No, I didn't do anything." Then it was, "She killed herself." Then it was, "I murdered her." So if you're really telling me that he only had this-
1:08:03 Speaker 01 And then it's, "I'll turn myself in," yeah.
1:08:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and then if you're telling me this is the one time this has happened, it's like, no, it's the one time he got caught.
1:08:10 Bill Simmons? Possible serial killer.
1:08:12 Speaker 01 Do you think they all look the same?
1:08:12 Bill Simmons? Oh, Mal, you have a flex category.
1:08:15 Speaker 01 Oh, okay, um, let's see. We've done the, did the movie need a better sex scene? We've already talked about Cooper, so maybe not Brandy Booth time. Hmm, should we talk about Cooper some more and do Brandy Booth?
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? Let's do Brandy Booth.
1:08:29 Speaker 01 Or most giftable moment?
1:08:31 Bill Simmons? Oh, let's do that.
1:08:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, Fortune 3 Club, let's do that. That's a, there's some giftable moment. If this movie came out now, it would be like meme central. I would pick, I would pick when Norman, when she's in the tub, and he, wha- what's that with the necklace? And pulls her forward, and then when he leans Claire back, it's Madison's rotting dead corpse. And he kind of like throws himself back, hand acting again, crashes into the mirror, falls and hits his head. That would be my most giftable moment, yeah.
1:08:59 Bill Simmons? The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.
1:09:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:09:03 Bill Simmons? Could Luke Wilson have carried this movie, CR?
1:09:05 Chris Ryan? Uh, I think he would have been an interesting Norman, because I think he would have been like, you wouldn't have had, he's an attractive guy, but he's not like, top five Hall of Fame, all-time hottest dudes ever, where you're like, yeah, you would not have a crisis of confidence.
1:09:17 Speaker 01 Not so needy.
1:09:18 Bill Simmons? Honey, what's going on?
1:09:20 Chris Ryan? God.
1:09:20 Bill Simmons? Why are you acting that way?
1:09:23 Bill Simmons? That's kind of the cool thing.
1:09:24 Speaker 01 Pretty good.
1:09:25 Bill Simmons? Thanks, Craig.
1:09:26 Chris Ryan? My honest take, if we're being honest, Claire takes one look at Norman when he's sailing, and all is forgiven. Like, the fucking vibes he is throwing off on the boat. He's got the dad hat on, the barber jacket.
1:09:40 Bill Simmons? He's got his award for being a doctor.
1:09:42 Chris Ryan? Let's go to an Airbnb and just like fucking leaf peep for a little bit. Like, let's do this. She's just like, whatever, Madison, R.I.P. There's no way she's carrying this case any further.
1:09:54 Speaker 01 I love this.
1:09:55 Chris Ryan? She's like, I got it pretty good. This guy's working on RNA vaccines, you know? Like, we got this great house, he's got tenure, I can cello around a little bit, work on the roses.
1:10:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure, he tells me I have to go to therapy, but the therapist gives me fireballs in the middle of the session, like, it's not so bad.
1:10:10 Bill Simmons? I like this. Like my house, things are good.
1:10:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, great one.
1:10:13 Chris Ryan? Who can say what happened?
1:10:14 Speaker 01 All right, mine is,
1:10:18 Speaker 01 if you're going to kill me.
1:10:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:10:23 Speaker 01 Don't do it in the same way you killed your mistress, who you cheated on me with. It's just insulting.
1:10:27 Bill Simmons? Oh, it's like a double whammy. This isn't even the hottest take.
1:10:30 Speaker 01 Find another way. Like, work a little harder. You know, and he's like, you had no idea how hard it was to hold her under the water. It's like, oh, she did it in the bathtub. That's why she's not in the bathtub. You use the paralyzing agent. Like, come on, man. I'm your fucking wife.
1:10:44 Chris Ryan? Is it too sick for us to speculate on what would be an appropriate way to kill Claire?
1:10:49 Speaker 01 Let's do it right now. That's what the podcast is for.
1:10:51 Chris Ryan? You might want to cut this out, because it's going to sound sick, but like, choke her with her own cello strings?
1:10:57 Bill Simmons? A little more signature move.
1:10:58 Speaker 01 He was really, he was ready for this. He was ready for this.
1:11:01 Chris Ryan? You had that ready?
1:11:02 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah, the basement.
1:11:04 Chris Ryan? Not that I considered this, but that's just off the top of my head.
1:11:07 Bill Simmons? Somebody would think, when Dennis Peck comes over to try to solve the crime, he thinks it was like a former student or something.
1:11:13 Speaker 01 This is great. It's a good use of the basement, too. Because we're sort of like presented with the basement, like, something really terrible is going to happen there, and then it doesn't.
1:11:20 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:11:20 Bill Simmons? This is a good possible category, murdering conciliary. If you're trying to figure out if it was the best possible way they could have killed somebody.
1:11:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I like this.
1:11:29 Chris Ryan? Buffalo Bill, maybe, like, don't play with your food, you know? Like, it's just like, make, let's get over with it.
1:11:34 Bill Simmons? She got to size 12, we're gonna go. You don't need a size 14 here, buddy.
1:11:39 Speaker 01 We have enough skin. He also just had like the doctors, the paramedics at the bathtub for the fake electrocution. It's like too much attention on the bathtub. This is just sloppy stuff from Norman.
1:11:49 Bill Simmons? Mine, I went a little hotter than you guys. I think this is an even better, don't have an affair, could ruin your life movie than Fatal Attraction. I think this goes actually worse than it did. Fatal Attraction, it's fine at the end. Glenn Close is dead. Everyone thinks it was her fault and he's back to the house he just got. This is like, dream house. He put all this time in, kinda got away with it. The fucking ghost, it was the one thing he didn't count on. And then he ends up drowning in the lake with the ghost.
1:12:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:12:21 Bill Simmons? He ends up having to deal with that for the rest of his life. It's just, it's just worse.
1:12:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, if I'm, if I'm Norman, I'm really mad that the therapist did not make more progress with her. I mean, like, he-
1:12:32 Speaker 01 Only a couple sessions.
1:12:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:12:33 Bill Simmons? That's where you go for a Vermont therapist.
1:12:35 Speaker 01 Only a couple sessions.
1:12:36 Bill Simmons? Gotta take her to the city.
1:12:37 Chris Ryan? She's gone to Burlington.
1:12:38 Speaker 01 As final resting places go though, I mean, as stated, what a beautiful lake.
1:12:43 Bill Simmons? It's tough though. Really dark in the bottom of those lakes.
1:12:46 Chris Ryan? You really feel like you're rotting away down there too. Not that I've considered that either.
1:12:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah, tough one. Casting what ifs. We don't have any because Zemeckis is like, I want these two.
1:12:55 Chris Ryan? For, one of the first times in the history of this category, Harrison Ford turned down The Perfect Storm-
1:13:01 Speaker 01 Right.
1:13:01 Chris Ryan? -to do What Lies Beneath, so it winds up becoming a casting what ifs for Perfect Storm, really.
1:13:06 Bill Simmons? And it ends up becoming a thank God, because I think that Boston accent would have fucking twisted him around.
1:13:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13:13 Chris Ryan? He really had hard on for boats at this point. He was just like, I gotta get on a boat. I don't care what-
1:13:17 Speaker 01 Loves the boat, loves the playing, loves the ranch.
1:13:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:13:20 Bill Simmons? Best that guy award. Who'd you have?
1:13:23 Chris Ryan? I'd Ray Baker.
1:13:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's a winner. The James Remar award for a movie with James Remar in it. He wins. James Remar.
1:13:30 Chris Ryan? What about, but for Dion Waiters, would you go Joe Morton, this therapist?
1:13:36 Speaker 01 You don't think Jodie is Dion Waiters?
1:13:37 Bill Simmons? I had Ghost Lady.
1:13:39 Speaker 01 Oh, Madison is Dion Waiters.
1:13:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah, yeah. No lines.
1:13:42 Speaker 01 Is Jodie in it too much to be Dion Waiters?
1:13:44 Bill Simmons? I thought she was.
1:13:45 Speaker 01 I wish to commune.
1:13:46 Bill Simmons? I think she's like the number four lead.
1:13:47 Speaker 01 Okay, interesting. You did, is, so to us, of course, well, not to you, but to those of us who have seen The Lord of the Rings, Miranda Otto is Ewan, obviously, but to you, are you like, Miranda Otto, oh, that guy? Is, because you don't have no relationship to Ewan, you have no relationship to The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
1:14:05 Speaker 03 You keep saying Ewan, it's not gonna ring a bell for him.
1:14:07 Speaker 01 She's a S.H.I.E.L.D. maiden of Rohan!
1:14:09 Bill Simmons? Was that, was that English?
1:14:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, she was, uh, she was one of the horse ladies, yeah.
1:14:14 Bill Simmons? I just saw your lips moving for a second there.
1:14:16 Speaker 01 Did you, did you do the extended editions?
1:14:18 Speaker 03 No, they wanted me to just do their regular first.
1:14:20 Speaker 01 Come on, man.
1:14:21 Speaker 03 Really? You think I should have started with the extended?
1:14:22 Bill Simmons? Who's they, the?
1:14:24 Speaker 03 Liz's two brothers who love these movies. I watched them all, though.
1:14:27 Speaker 01 You should only watch extended editions from here.
1:14:29 Speaker 03 Back to back to back, I watched.
1:14:30 Chris Ryan? In one day, or how many?
1:14:31 Speaker 03 One each day.
1:14:32 Chris Ryan? That's awesome.
1:14:33 Speaker 01 Give you credit for watching one of the three best trilogies ever made.
1:14:36 Speaker 03 Come on!
1:14:37 Speaker 01 Congrats!
1:14:37 Speaker 03 Thanks!
1:14:41 Bill Simmons? Recasting couch director city, I'd like to see ours, Laura San Giacomo.
1:14:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I also.
1:14:45 Bill Simmons? As the, as the friend.
1:14:47 Chris Ryan? Lauren, Laura San Giacomo as, uh, as, uh, Jodie. Talk me through a couple of my ideas here for other directors.
1:14:56 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:14:56 Chris Ryan? So obviously, BDP, get DePaula in there.
1:14:59 Speaker 01 That would be fucking great. That would be, that would honestly be a lot better.
1:15:03 Chris Ryan? I think there's a lot more.
1:15:04 Bill Simmons? Honestly, coming right out of Snake Eyes, too, pretty good move for him.
1:15:06 Chris Ryan? A lot more like, long crane shots going from the Fuhrer's house back, back and forth, two fuck scenes.
1:15:13 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:15:14 Bill Simmons? Fight for Quetzal when he insists on the masturbation bathtub scene.
1:15:17 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:15:17 Bill Simmons? She walks off the set, Sharon Stone's right there, she's in.
1:15:21 Chris Ryan? Another one, Fincher?
1:15:23 Speaker 01 That would also be amazing.
1:15:24 Bill Simmons? I mean, he basically, Panic Room is slightly his version of this, yeah.
1:15:28 Chris Ryan? And then the last one I was thinking of was Adrian Line.
1:15:31 Speaker 01 Oh!
1:15:33 Bill Simmons? Getting horny.
1:15:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:34 Bill Simmons? Probably need worse actors.
1:15:35 Chris Ryan? Yeah, supernatural horny, yeah.
1:15:37 Speaker 01 I like all of those.
1:15:38 Bill Simmons? Interesting. Yeah, with that one, you're probably going, Richard Gere, he's available.
1:15:45 Speaker 01 Gere would be a great, Gere would be a great Norman.
1:15:47 Bill Simmons? And then?
1:15:48 Chris Ryan? Gere would be an amazing Norman.
1:15:49 Speaker 01 Gere would be a fucking great Norman.
1:15:52 Bill Simmons? Is Kelly Preston?
1:15:54 Chris Ryan? Uh.
1:15:54 Bill Simmons? No, probably too, no.
1:15:57 Chris Ryan? Who's a good cellist?
1:15:59 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:16:00 Chris Ryan? Who can I see being an amazing cellist?
1:16:04 Bill Simmons? We'll come back to that. Let's take a break and then Craig has a flex category. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year.
1:16:49 Bill Simmons? Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters November 6th. Get tickets now.
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1:17:39 Bill Simmons? I forgot Craig already did his flex category, so we'll go half-assed into research. A shockingly dismal amount of research on this movie. I was surprised, it made almost $300 million.
1:17:50 Speaker 01 It's standing out there.
1:17:50 Bill Simmons? The only thing that I found that was interesting was Michelle Pfeiffer's fear of water and saying how she had to lie in a bathtub for like five hours at a time. That really made me think about what I would want as an actor at that point. Like I'm sure they're wearing a bathing suit, but like, how warm would it have to be? Would they have to keep making it hotter?
1:18:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, with your skin wrinkles. Yeah, of course.
1:18:14 Bill Simmons? I've had a lot of, I was really interested in that, but there's no other research.
1:18:17 Speaker 01 Well, what's the entertainment? Because, you know, when I'm in the bath.
1:18:22 Bill Simmons? Listening to The Watch?
1:18:22 Speaker 01 I listen to The Watch. That's what I do when I'm in the bath.
1:18:25 Bill Simmons? Do you really?
1:18:25 Speaker 01 Genuinely, I will say, I don't know if I've shared this update with you.
1:18:32 Speaker 01 In the video podcasting era, it's like,
1:18:35 Chris Ryan? It's a little bit more like I'm there.
1:18:37 Speaker 01 degree too weird, but for years.
1:18:39 Bill Simmons? So you're naked watching your friend Chris?
1:18:41 Chris Ryan? No, she's naked listening to her friend Chris.
1:18:43 Bill Simmons? That's what I mean.
1:18:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, just a relaxing evening in the tub, you know?
1:18:47 Bill Simmons? Do you fast forward the eight minutes of foreplay at the top and go right to the show? Or do you go foreplay first?
1:18:51 Speaker 01 Those are my favorite eight minutes.
1:18:53 Chris Ryan? There's, it's a 50 50 thing where it's like, some people hate it and some people love it.
1:18:56 Speaker 01 Those are my favorite eight minutes.
1:18:58 Chris Ryan? Entire spectrum of watch listenership.
1:18:59 Speaker 01 Listening to my favorite friendship, but yeah, so what's, what podcast is Claire Spencer listening to, you know, if this is a period of time where there's podcasts?
1:19:06 Bill Simmons? Oh, she's definitely rerunning back Serial.
1:19:09 Chris Ryan? Oh, she, yeah.
1:19:10 Speaker 01 True Crime.
1:19:10 Bill Simmons? Even though she knows what happened, she didn't know if she missed a couple of things.
1:19:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:19:15 Speaker 01 That's a, that's a spin on this is where instead of like this vibe, it's more like only murders in the building, you know, she's like, I've learned a lot from True Crime podcasting.
1:19:22 Chris Ryan? Norman could have told something was wrong by looking at her wrapped. It's like, hey Claire.
1:19:27 Chris Ryan? A lot of a ghost is living with me pod.
1:19:29 Bill Simmons? Like he sneaks on her phone and looks at her Instagram algorithm for the for you stuff. And he's like, what is going on?
1:19:35 Speaker 01 Why is your top bookmark missing persons?
1:19:37 Bill Simmons? Everything's haunted or missing.
1:19:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:19:39 Bill Simmons? Apex Mountain, fight for and forward, no.
1:19:41 Speaker 01 Absolutely not.
1:19:43 Bill Simmons? Ghost movies, no.
1:19:44 Speaker 01 No.
1:19:44 Bill Simmons? Cheating husband comeuppance movies, maybe. Remar, no. Haunted House movies, no.
1:19:50 Speaker 01 No.
1:19:50 Bill Simmons? Semecus, no.
1:19:51 Speaker 01 No.
1:19:52 Bill Simmons? Waterlog corpse, coming back to life and coming involved in the plot.
1:19:57 Chris Ryan? I mean, there's some Pirates of the Caribbean corpses.
1:19:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, sure.
1:20:00 Chris Ryan? Right?
1:20:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, Caribbean.
1:20:01 Bill Simmons? Do we have this in the finals for naked?
1:20:04 Chris Ryan? Caribbean, sorry.
1:20:06 Bill Simmons? Naked ghost bodies with the shining?
1:20:11 Chris Ryan? Oh, I think the shine.
1:20:12 Bill Simmons? When Jack looks in the mirror and all of a sudden it's like a gross lady.
1:20:14 Chris Ryan? To me, that's like a one versus 16 seed.
1:20:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I agree.
1:20:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I didn't have any Apex Mountains.
1:20:19 Chris Ryan? Uh, cinematic Vermont? They could have done, I feel like this is a moment.
1:20:25 Bill Simmons? Not bad.
1:20:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:20:25 Bill Simmons? It's pretty good. I like it.
1:20:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:20:28 Bill Simmons? Bad or Grown Ups 2, where they filmed Grown Ups 2?
1:20:31 Chris Ryan? Somewhere there.
1:20:32 Bill Simmons? Grown Ups 2 off the top of my head.
1:20:34 Chris Ryan? It's a good movie.
1:20:36 Speaker 01 You're the best.
1:20:39 Bill Simmons? It's a big kids movie.
1:20:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:20:41 Bill Simmons? My kids love grownups too. We own it.
1:20:44 Speaker 03 Cruise or Hanks?
1:20:46 Chris Ryan? I have Hanks just because he's a Bobby Zemeckis.
1:20:48 Speaker 01 I'm shocked. I'm astonished.
1:20:51 Speaker 03 Evil Hanks?
1:20:51 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's Zemeckis's guy.
1:20:54 Bill Simmons? This is one of your worst. I hope this is your worst call of 2026.
1:20:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:20:59 Bill Simmons? I really do.
1:21:00 Speaker 01 Boy.
1:21:00 Bill Simmons? I hope we've peaked right here.
1:21:02 Speaker 01 I mean.
1:21:03 Speaker 03 It's so clearly Cruise.
1:21:04 Chris Ryan? I'm gonna go for this and not for, I would have killed Michelle Pfeiffer with chokes.
1:21:08 Speaker 01 No, that's why you're the best. That's why you're a legend.
1:21:11 Bill Simmons? Think of all the things Cruise would want to do in this.
1:21:13 Speaker 01 It's obviously Cruise.
1:21:14 Bill Simmons? He would want to turn evil at the end.
1:21:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:17 Bill Simmons? He would want to have like the sexy scene.
1:21:19 Speaker 01 For sure.
1:21:20 Bill Simmons? He would want to have the, uh, the scene when he realizes she's possessed and is trying to get away from her.
1:21:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:21:26 Chris Ryan? I think Chris is right. Counterpoint.
1:21:27 Speaker 03 I think Chris is right.
1:21:28 Chris Ryan? Cruise.
1:21:28 Bill Simmons? What?
1:21:29 Chris Ryan? I think it's Hank. Cruise has just done my fucked up marriage movie with Eyes Wide Shut. He's not gonna go fucking do what lies beneath.
1:21:36 Bill Simmons? That's a good point.
1:21:36 Chris Ryan? This is exactly, if, if Hanks was caring about like counter-programming his image.
1:21:41 Speaker 01 But he can't, yeah. If we're gonna bring in the where are they in their real schedules, then Hanks is eliminated for consideration.
1:21:48 Chris Ryan? Do this movie and lose weight at the same time.
1:21:50 Speaker 01 What about the, he's growing the beard.
1:21:52 Chris Ryan? Why can't Norman have a beard?
1:21:54 Speaker 01 He, I, I'm sorry, but when Claire is running her fingers through Norman's pectoral chest hair.
1:22:00 Chris Ryan? Have you seen Tom Cruise?
1:22:01 Speaker 01 You've been alone lancing your gums with a ice skate on an island. That's just not the vibe.
1:22:08 Chris Ryan? Castaway, right?
1:22:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:22:09 Bill Simmons? Oh, true.
1:22:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:22:10 Speaker 01 That's not.
1:22:12 Speaker 03 I don't think we should factor in like the, the shooting schedules of these actors when considering.
1:22:16 Speaker 01 He's the one who brought it up.
1:22:17 Chris Ryan? I just was mentioning.
1:22:19 Speaker 01 By saying he's not gonna do fucked up marriages in a row.
1:22:21 Chris Ryan? I'm trying to say, Tom Hanks is doing the kind of counter-programming that Harrison Ford is doing in this film. If Tom Hanks is in this movie, it plays against everything we think about Tom Hanks.
1:22:31 Speaker 01 Sure. That's true.
1:22:32 Chris Ryan? Tom Cruise coming off of Eyes Wide Shut, you're like, yeah, that guy is a fucked up husband. He does go to the Fidelio parties.
1:22:38 Speaker 03 Tom Cruise out crazies Pfeiffer.
1:22:41 Chris Ryan? Exactly right. Hanks, you, you need that steady.
1:22:44 Bill Simmons? A rare tie, two to two tie.
1:22:45 Speaker 03 I would never expect it from Hanks. Like you wouldn't expect it from your friend Harrison Ford.
1:22:49 Chris Ryan? That's right.
1:22:50 Bill Simmons? I could see Cruise. And do doing the tour for this, the media tour, being like, Bob came to me. Just doing like the crazy energy.
1:22:59 Speaker 01 Cruise demands to do his, to do his own stunt from under the tarp of the fucking boat.
1:23:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:23:05 Speaker 01 To dive through.
1:23:06 Bill Simmons? He would have had to water ski or something.
1:23:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, in the truck, like, that would have been great.
1:23:10 Bill Simmons? Scorsese or Spielberg? Spielberg.
1:23:12 Speaker 01 Well, Spielberg passed on it, right? Like, he didn't want to do it?
1:23:14 Bill Simmons? He did. This movie's in the Spielberg area.
1:23:17 Chris Ryan? There is a Cape Fear version of this movie that Scorsese does, but it's probably Spielberg is the answer here.
1:23:23 Bill Simmons? New category. Good hang, bad hang.
1:23:27 Speaker 01 I'm in.
1:23:27 Bill Simmons? I present to you the Spencers. I think good dinner date hangs.
1:23:33 Chris Ryan? Good dinner date?
1:23:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:23:34 Bill Simmons? You don't know Claire might have a couple of drinks.
1:23:36 Chris Ryan? We're a little bit more fun.
1:23:38 Bill Simmons? But think about like, who are you going out with tonight? The Spencers.
1:23:41 Speaker 01 Spencers.
1:23:42 Bill Simmons? What happened with that lady? She had that car accident.
1:23:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:23:45 Bill Simmons? I don't know, she's off the rails. Like, I hope she gets a couple of drinks tonight.
1:23:48 Chris Ryan? I think I would like to go to a party with the Spencers. A double date with them would be tough, because you got.
1:23:53 Bill Simmons? You wouldn't want to do dinner.
1:23:54 Chris Ryan? No, it's just that Norman's gonna be fucking whining about his dad.
1:23:57 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:23:58 Chris Ryan? And Claire's gonna be like, oh, kind of thinking about the ghost in my house. And it's like, you know, you need people to rap.
1:24:02 Bill Simmons? But then you get to drive home and talk about the Spencers. Like, oh my god, how fucking crazy is Claire?
1:24:07 Chris Ryan? I would rather have seen, we're at the cocktail party, Madison shows up, Claire blacks out.
1:24:13 Bill Simmons? Talk to the Spencers for a while.
1:24:14 Chris Ryan? Fucking car accident, like, that's something you talk about for the rest of the year.
1:24:17 Bill Simmons? So you're saying Spencer's bad hang?
1:24:20 Chris Ryan? Well, I thought we were gonna do good hang, bad hang, the Spencers, like, would you rather hang out with Norman or Claire?
1:24:25 Bill Simmons? I'm giving you the Spencers as a combo.
1:24:27 Speaker 01 The only way you want to hang out with the Spencers, it's only a good hang if you're swinging. That's it. Unless they're, they're up to swing.
1:24:35 Chris Ryan? Like, do you think Norm?
1:24:36 Bill Simmons? Like, swinging, like, swinging.
1:24:38 Speaker 01 Swinging.
1:24:39 Chris Ryan? Between.
1:24:40 Bill Simmons? Good hang.
1:24:40 Chris Ryan? Getting strange.
1:24:42 Bill Simmons? Great hang.
1:24:42 Chris Ryan? And working on his paper. Do you think Norm's watched a single Sox game that summer?
1:24:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah, where were the Red Sox in the background?
1:24:49 Chris Ryan? It was the Trot and Troy season, right? 2000?
1:24:51 Bill Simmons? 2000.
1:24:52 Chris Ryan? 99, 2000?
1:24:53 Bill Simmons? That was Carl Everett.
1:24:54 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:24:55 Bill Simmons? That was when he bumped the umpire and the season went to hell. I was at that game. God damn it. Why'd he do that?
1:25:01 Speaker 01 Incredible.
1:25:02 Chris Ryan? That's probably what, that's probably what drove Norm over the edge.
1:25:05 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:25:05 Bill Simmons? I came home angry and immediately wrote a column for 7,500 people.
1:25:11 Bill Simmons? Picky knits.
1:25:12 Speaker 01 Oh my god, there are so many.
1:25:15 Bill Simmons? We spent so much time on James Remar and then it's never heard from again 40 minutes into the movie. Is that?
1:25:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:25:22 Bill Simmons? The red herring thing, do you like that or do you wish he had circled back in some way?
1:25:25 Chris Ryan? I think that they needed to pop up again. I think like Mary-
1:25:28 Bill Simmons? Should he have come over near the end?
1:25:30 Chris Ryan? Mary should have like saved her or something like maybe Mary comes in and Norman hits her and that's what makes it like Norman has to kill Claire now like I don't know like there needed to be something.
1:25:40 Bill Simmons? I like that a lot and I think one of those two had to come in the house and be like, what's going on in here? And then gets hit by a candlestick or chow.
1:25:48 Speaker 03 Remar's wife's like hysteria at the beginning of the movie just kind of being like brushed off as a normal like that was completely bizarre.
1:25:55 Bill Simmons? Yes.
1:25:56 Speaker 03 It was too much of a red herring.
1:25:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, I mean, it obviously sets up a big chunk of like her investigating that to ultimately realize that's not her. Picking it in that stretch, though, on the real estate front, why are we peeking through the fence and standing on rocks to look over and slicing our wrists open? Once you realize that neither of their front lawns are gated in.
1:26:17 Chris Ryan? She could just go around and be like, you alright?
1:26:18 Speaker 01 Round the fucking bed and be like, what's up?
1:26:20 Bill Simmons? That's a great one.
1:26:21 Speaker 01 You okay?
1:26:22 Speaker 03 Because she is talking to her, so it's not like she's trying to obscure her watching.
1:26:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, that was bizarre.
1:26:26 Bill Simmons? I had another one on that, on that, like a logistics thing.
1:26:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:26:29 Bill Simmons? This guy's really smart, right? This doctor, Harrison Ford.
1:26:33 Chris Ryan? But not as smart as his dad, but yeah.
1:26:35 Bill Simmons? But really smart, got through med school.
1:26:37 Speaker 01 He's a DuPont chair, not sure if he heard.
1:26:38 Bill Simmons? Kills somebody and just dumps the stuff right over the dock.
1:26:41 Speaker 03 Yes.
1:26:41 Speaker 01 This is a huge one.
1:26:42 Speaker 03 He tosses it right off the dock.
1:26:44 Bill Simmons? You want to walk 40 yards to the right? Just right over?
1:26:48 Speaker 01 Very sloppy.
1:26:49 Chris Ryan? But then Madison becomes like the Loch Ness monster of Lake Champlain, right? Like, because she gets to the bridge too.
1:26:54 Bill Simmons? That's the other thing, how much territory is she covering as a ghost?
1:26:57 Speaker 01 Well, the car is dumped, like, because he says the boat entrance is where he took her to dump the car.
1:27:02 Speaker 03 And which is under the bridge, like, why is the, why is the ghost there?
1:27:03 Speaker 01 And then there's the box, the jewelry box. So there's like evidence in multiple locations, all too close to home.
1:27:08 Speaker 03 Why is the car under the bridge? I didn't understand that.
1:27:09 Speaker 01 Very sloppy, very sloppy.
1:27:10 Speaker 03 Doesn't make sense.
1:27:11 Chris Ryan? I don't know.
1:27:12 Bill Simmons? Well, you assume that he drove her off the bridge, right?
1:27:14 Speaker 03 No, no.
1:27:15 Chris Ryan? No, he, he, I thought it would-
1:27:17 Speaker 03 He backed her in and let the, and let the car sink into the lake.
1:27:20 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:27:20 Speaker 03 At the boat entrance, wherever that is.
1:27:22 Speaker 01 Killed her, but she's dead at that point. He's just getting rid of the body.
1:27:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:27:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's killed her in the tub.
1:27:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:27:27 Speaker 01 And he, yes, he's, he wheels her to the-
1:27:29 Bill Simmons? I was gonna say Norman, not a great murderer.
1:27:31 Chris Ryan? No.
1:27:31 Bill Simmons? Like, really sloppy.
1:27:33 Speaker 01 And then again, runs it all back, the playbook, exactly. It's like absurd.
1:27:36 Chris Ryan? Although maybe he was just like, this is, he's like Sirianni. He's like, no turnovers here, you know? Just.
1:27:43 Bill Simmons? Oh, my god.
1:27:45 Speaker 03 Run the fucking ball.
1:27:45 Chris Ryan? Nitpick is, where the fuck did Caitlin go? She's goes, first day at college, she never checks in on our parents. She's never like.
1:27:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:27:53 Chris Ryan? Kind of a weird vibe coming from mom right now. Like, what's happening? I haven't heard.
1:27:57 Bill Simmons? It's pretty early in the email stage, but you still had email in 2000. She should be like, hey, mom.
1:28:03 Speaker 03 What's the span of this movie? Is it like a, how long is this?
1:28:05 Chris Ryan? I thought it was a couple of weeks.
1:28:07 Bill Simmons? It's like September, October, yeah.
1:28:08 Chris Ryan? Because I thought she's starting, she's slowly losing it over the days or weeks.
1:28:12 Speaker 01 I think the whole, like, you even could say, maybe it's like a what's aged the worst, the whole, like, I've lost my mind because I'm an empty nester now and have no identity. Like, not the most delicate portrait in the script. And I think that aspect, but I guess that's the answer is like, she has to convince herself, I don't need to call her all the time.
1:28:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:28:31 Speaker 01 Right? Like, I don't need to check in.
1:28:33 Bill Simmons? She's already lost her dad's Scott Carino, and now she loses her stepdad.
1:28:38 Chris Ryan? Like, how often would you call your folks from college? Once a week?
1:28:42 Bill Simmons? Well, I didn't go to college in the email era, but I would have emailed them. I think, or they would have emailed me. I feel like there would have been an email connection.
1:28:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:28:49 Speaker 01 Early in freshman year, you're checking in. You're homesick, you're checking in.
1:28:52 Chris Ryan? I can't remember. I mean, like, I, I think I was calling, like, like, once every couple of days.
1:28:58 Speaker 01 Um.
1:29:00 Speaker 01 I have a nitpick with Madison as a ghost.
1:29:03 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:29:04 Bill Simmons? She was on my list as well.
1:29:07 Speaker 01 I have an unanswerable question for that category, which we'll get to, but on the nitpicking front.
1:29:12 Speaker 01 The amount of time she's taking to repeatedly type her initials, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F, M E F. Type out, your husband fucked me, killed me, and disposed of my body, and I have returned to you in paranormal form to tell you this.
1:29:29 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:29:29 Speaker 01 Why is Madison typing her initials?
1:29:31 Bill Simmons? Like Swayze and Ghost, where you can just kind of, you could kind of push.
1:29:35 Speaker 01 This is very inefficient. Well, then type like, we're getting on the mirror, you know. Type, he did it. So come on, Madison.
1:29:45 Bill Simmons? Fair.
1:29:45 Speaker 01 Put in a little more work here.
1:29:47 Bill Simmons? M E F, why not just write Madison over M E F?
1:29:49 Chris Ryan? I know.
1:29:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, absurd, absurd. I don't, but that's a, that's a function of a not great script more than it is something I believe Madison the ghost would do.
1:29:58 Bill Simmons? I had a coop on, where, where is coop in the last 40 minutes of this movie?
1:30:03 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, and also why?
1:30:06 Bill Simmons? His parents are fighting, like that's gonna enrage a dog.
1:30:09 Chris Ryan? He's in and out of the house a lot. It seems like, because when he disappears that night, she's just like, have it your way.
1:30:13 Speaker 01 She tried, she yells his name once from the porch and they're just like, oh, good.
1:30:16 Bill Simmons? Honestly, if that's Murph, there's no deaths in that house. Murph's protecting everybody.
1:30:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah?
1:30:20 Speaker 01 He's on it.
1:30:20 Chris Ryan? Where'd he go?
1:30:21 Bill Simmons? The Murph that wouldn't have liked any of that, the bathtub drowning never happens with Murph.
1:30:25 Speaker 01 Yeah?
1:30:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Murph's.
1:30:26 Chris Ryan? Murph, Murph does CPR?
1:30:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he would have like thawed the water to make the bathtub go down.
1:30:31 Speaker 01 A compress on any wound.
1:30:33 Bill Simmons? What about the paralysis drug, by the way? What drug is that, that her feet were kinda working?
1:30:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:30:39 Bill Simmons? Is it six minutes?
1:30:40 Speaker 01 It's, we learn earlier in the film, it's three to five, right? So then he's like, oh, it's wearing off, right? And then gets the pill bottle because he's gonna stage the suicide.
1:30:49 Bill Simmons? Again, terrible murderer, whoa.
1:30:51 Speaker 01 Brutal, and he's using something from his own place of work that could like, I assume be traced to him. But again, maybe he's like, well, they gave up on Madison pretty quickly. They're not gonna really look into this, but it's defensible. While she's got the drug fading out of her system, this is one of my big picking nits. I am not a physicist. Vectors, angles, et cetera, it's not my specialty. However, I feel confident in saying, nothing we're doing with the foot to pull the cord that way. And certainly, the shower head, lifting the cord to the shower head to turn.
1:31:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's hard to do when you're not paralyzed.
1:31:25 Speaker 01 Turn the hot water knob. I just don't believe any of that would be, be possible in that state or, or at all.
1:31:31 Bill Simmons? I agree.
1:31:32 Speaker 01 She should have died, she should have drowned. That's what, how the movie should have ended.
1:31:37 Bill Simmons? Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable? All black cast, I'm not against.
1:31:42 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:31:43 Bill Simmons? Did think that on Tubi, I might give that a whirl.
1:31:46 Speaker 01 This would be like a good prestige TV, like a eight episode Apple season.
1:31:49 Chris Ryan? The year before, you would have to have like the, you'd almost have to have the affair.
1:31:54 Speaker 01 Do you get any flashbacks?
1:31:56 Chris Ryan? Well, it depends on how much you want to get into the supernatural part versus what you want to do with Norman and his, and his affairs.
1:32:02 Speaker 01 What don't I want to do with Norman?
1:32:05 Bill Simmons? Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Buffalo Bill, Fergie the Florist, Byron Mayo, Dana Olafsky, or William Brimley and the firm?
1:32:11 Chris Ryan? I like the idea of Fergie from, uh, the town being like, "You're gonna do this for me. You're gonna dump you in the lake, just like I dumped Madison. I did her the chemical way.
1:32:25 Chris Ryan? Give her a Harrison Ford taste.
1:32:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:32:30 Chris Ryan? Oh, she doped up good and proper.
1:32:35 Bill Simmons? I love Fergie the Florist so much.
1:32:37 Chris Ryan? Fergie the Florist is-
1:32:38 Speaker 01 Great one.
1:32:38 Chris Ryan? Is one of my faves.
1:32:39 Speaker 01 You don't want Wayne there as local law enforcement?
1:32:42 Chris Ryan? We retired Wayne.
1:32:42 Speaker 01 Checking in on Madison?
1:32:43 Chris Ryan? Wayne, Wayne is, Wayne is-
1:32:44 Speaker 01 What a tragedy.
1:32:45 Chris Ryan? Wayne blew his knee out.
1:32:47 Bill Simmons? Wayne had a four-year run.
1:32:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:49 Bill Simmons? He was like Earl Campbell.
1:32:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:50 Speaker 01 Wayne's a turtle.
1:32:51 Chris Ryan? He transferred a couple of times.
1:32:54 Chris Ryan? Wayne, Wayne's going to Indiana now.
1:32:58 Bill Simmons? I'm not gonna do Olafsky. I enjoyed Fergie the Florist. Uh, just want to ask her who gets it. I don't know.
1:33:05 Speaker 01 Definitely Pfeiffer. I think, no question.
1:33:08 Chris Ryan? I would, I would do Zemeckis, Don Burgess, the cinematography.
1:33:11 Speaker 01 Really?
1:33:11 Bill Simmons? This was an Oscar movie.
1:33:13 Speaker 01 Well, no, certainly not.
1:33:14 Bill Simmons? Probably in the answerable questions, we already talked about why would anyone ever fuck with the Ouija board? And then, uh, I wrote down Claire, number one movie character widow catch ever.
1:33:24 Speaker 01 Whoa.
1:33:24 Bill Simmons? You get the house, she still looks great.
1:33:26 Speaker 01 Trust issues, though. Major trust issues.
1:33:29 Bill Simmons? Scarred by last relationship, you can win that back and really build her back up.
1:33:32 Chris Ryan? No further questions from law enforcement about what happened?
1:33:35 Bill Simmons? True, true.
1:33:36 Speaker 01 Free to visit the gravesite.
1:33:37 Bill Simmons? Got a new necklace she's wearing, looks great at parties, um, vindicated by her, by, in the community because people now realize her husband was driving her crazy.
1:33:46 Speaker 01 You're not worried about the trust issues? Calcifying?
1:33:49 Bill Simmons? No. I mean, on a scale of one to Tiger Woods's wife, I think it's like a 9.2.
1:33:56 Chris Ryan? Shout out to Ellen.
1:33:57 Bill Simmons? Tiger Woods's wife?
1:33:58 Chris Ryan? Incredible. Hadn't thought about her in a while.
1:34:00 Bill Simmons? Inheriting like 700 million dollars or, or the, in the settlement, plus look great?
1:34:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:34:07 Chris Ryan? She's really kept it
1:34:07 Bill Simmons? I thought Craig would have my back.
1:34:08 Chris Ryan? Under the radar.
1:34:10 Bill Simmons? Which one?
1:34:10 Chris Ryan? Ellen, Tiger's ex.
1:34:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:34:12 Bill Simmons? Great job by her.
1:34:13 Chris Ryan? Like, where's she at?
1:34:13 Speaker 01 She's up in Scandinavia.
1:34:15 Bill Simmons? Spending Tiger's money.
1:34:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:34:16 Chris Ryan? I had a couple of unanswerables.
1:34:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:34:18 Speaker 01 Same.
1:34:20 Chris Ryan? If Norman had just been like, "Sounds great, let's go to Adamant."
1:34:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:34:23 Chris Ryan? Love that place?
1:34:24 Speaker 01 He would've been fine.
1:34:25 Chris Ryan? Is he fine?
1:34:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's fine.
1:34:27 Speaker 01 I think she's never letting it go, but he buys more time. He buys more time.
1:34:31 Chris Ryan? Is Claire's supernatural experience all a side effect of Jody's mushroom tea that she gives her in the beginning of the movie?
1:34:38 Speaker 01 And how does she pronounce it?
1:34:40 Chris Ryan? I can't remember.
1:34:41 Speaker 01 Kambuka.
1:34:42 Chris Ryan? Kambuka.
1:34:42 Speaker 01 Which is not correct. That's a wild moment in the movie.
1:34:45 Bill Simmons? So now are they doing like, like, uh, 2.5 mushrooms?
1:34:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:34:49 Bill Simmons? Or 5 point?
1:34:50 Chris Ryan? She's 0.5s.
1:34:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, they're microdosing, for sure.
1:34:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:34:52 Bill Simmons? Can't really talk to this.
1:34:53 Speaker 01 Claire microdosing would be great, actually. I would enjoy that, for sure.
1:34:56 Chris Ryan? There is a lot, there's a lot of story to tell here.
1:34:58 Speaker 01 There is. Me and Clark should run it back, after all. Why did Madison's-
1:35:01 Bill Simmons? I was offered a 0.25 gummy on New Year's Eve and turned it down. Cause I'm bad at drugs.
1:35:06 Chris Ryan? Of psilocybin?
1:35:07 Bill Simmons? I'm just not good at drugs anymore.
1:35:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:35:09 Speaker 01 You don't like an edible?
1:35:11 Bill Simmons? Not good at drugs anymore. Had a great run.
1:35:12 Chris Ryan? I think you should just hold out until-
1:35:14 Bill Simmons? Bring it back?
1:35:14 Chris Ryan? You go into a big blow era, you know?
1:35:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, just write the cocaine.
1:35:18 Bill Simmons? Supposedly coming back.
1:35:19 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah?
1:35:22 Bill Simmons? That's what I heard.
1:35:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:35:23 Bill Simmons? We're in the street. Tell us more, Craig.
1:35:27 Speaker 01 Um, why did Madison's ghost wait one year to start haunting Claire and Norman? Why, why the delay?
1:35:33 Chris Ryan? No, she had to get unlocked, right? Didn't?
1:35:35 Speaker 01 Well, eventually we built her like the braid. That's another unanswerable question is like, why is there a lock of her hair? But she's, but she's haunting her before then, right? So what is, what is the, why one year?
1:35:47 Bill Simmons? The braid gave her the superpower, though.
1:35:48 Speaker 01 The braid we left up, for sure. But why are these, like, do we think Claire was just missing these signs until this point in time and they'd been there? Or Madison was like, "I'm chilling in the lake, decomposing for a year, and now I'm gonna start filling your bathtub." That's the first time the tub has been full. Why?
1:36:03 Chris Ryan? How much is her perception heightened by the fact that she's not concentrating on her daughter? It's, yeah, it's-
1:36:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe she wanted Caitlin, wait till Caitlin, maybe that's it. Wait till Caitlin leaves. Right? No innocent bystanders.
1:36:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:36:14 Speaker 01 I like that, okay. What if, this is a big unanswerable question for me. What if the Spencers, and if I'm Norman, I definitely do this in the renovation because I've killed my mistress in that tub, have just a stall shower? What if there's just a freestanding shower, right? A glass shower?
1:36:32 Bill Simmons? No bathtub.
1:36:33 Speaker 01 How does Madison work her magic then? What tub is she filling?
1:36:37 Bill Simmons? I don't know.
1:36:37 Speaker 01 There's not one to fill. What does she do? Where are we seeing the reflection? Obviously, we have mirrors, we have other surfaces, but the tub is so central to how she's able to haunt them? What if Norman had had the foresight to say, "I killed somebody here. I'm gonna make that part of the renovation."
1:36:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Just goes shower only.
1:36:55 Speaker 01 Yeah. Something they should have thought about.
1:36:57 Bill Simmons? It's one of the many reasons he was a terrible murderer.
1:37:00 Speaker 01 Awful. Bad husband, bad murderer.
1:37:02 Bill Simmons? He comes up in my Coach Finstock Mr. Miyagi word for best or worst life lesson.
1:37:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:11 Bill Simmons? Norm, if you're gonna go through all this hullabaloo to kill your mistress.
1:37:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:37:17 Bill Simmons? Figure out a better place to dump
1:37:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:20 Bill Simmons? all of her stuff with the necklace. I know we mentioned it earlier, but it has to be mentioned a second time.
1:37:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:25 Bill Simmons? That can't be in front of your dock. It's absurd.
1:37:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:29 Bill Simmons? And also, like, right in front of your dock. It's not like he took a boat, swam out and threw it in the-
1:37:34 Speaker 01 He could have just been like, "I'm taking a ferry to Fort Ticonderoga," you know, whatever. Yeah, I mean, he has a boat.
1:37:42 Bill Simmons? That's right.
1:37:42 Speaker 01 He has a fucking boat!
1:37:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you could throw that anywhere.
1:37:45 Speaker 01 Like, there's no reason not to Ripley it.
1:37:47 Bill Simmons? What piece of memorabilia Ripley? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'd obviously want the Scott Carino photos.
1:37:53 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, of course.
1:37:55 Bill Simmons? I would definitely frame them, give them to Jeff Gallo for Christmas.
1:37:57 Chris Ryan? I'd like Good Jeans, the boat that he's got, but if not, I'd take his outfit from the boat.
1:38:02 Speaker 01 Is it in the era of Sydney Sweeney, you're going Good Jeans? Interesting.
1:38:07 Chris Ryan? Well, the boat itself is really nice.
1:38:09 Bill Simmons? To me, it's him backing Sydney Sweeney.
1:38:12 Chris Ryan? It's me sailing against cancel culture.
1:38:14 Speaker 01 As you tend to, as you tend to.
1:38:16 Bill Simmons? Queen Sydney is back, by the way. Handmade too, already greenlit.
1:38:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah, Housemaid.
1:38:20 Speaker 01 Housemaid.
1:38:21 Bill Simmons? Housemaid.
1:38:22 Speaker 01 Different vibe for, different vibe for Handmade. She's in Handmaid's Tale, it's all right. You're not, you're not picking the braid? You don't want Madison's braid?
1:38:30 Chris Ryan? No, I do not want a ghost braid.
1:38:31 Bill Simmons? Did you guys see Housemaid?
1:38:32 Chris Ryan? I haven't.
1:38:32 Speaker 01 Nor will I be. No interest.
1:38:35 Bill Simmons? It is horrible.
1:38:37 Chris Ryan? Is it?
1:38:37 Speaker 01 Seems terrible, yeah.
1:38:38 Bill Simmons? It's like, really awful.
1:38:40 Speaker 01 Doing really well. Well.
1:38:42 Bill Simmons? It's really awful. It's terrible. It's poor.
1:38:47 Speaker 01 So it's not gonna be a rewatchable.
1:38:49 Bill Simmons? It is not good.
1:38:50 Speaker 01 Not gonna be an instant rewatchable.
1:38:51 Chris Ryan? You're just making sure you don't get on the poster there.
1:38:53 Bill Simmons? It is like shockingly bad. I was stunned by how bad it was.
1:38:57 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:38:58 Chris Ryan? That's awesome.
1:38:58 Bill Simmons? Watched every minute of it. It's cause it's like, it's a From Hell movie. But uh, it's really shockingly. No, it's on the PGA app.
1:39:06 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:39:07 Bill Simmons? Which was funny in itself. Like, I don't know what award it thought it was getting nominated for.
1:39:12 Speaker 01 Costume design?
1:39:13 Bill Simmons? Congratulations to everyone involved.
1:39:18 Bill Simmons? Best double feature choice.
1:39:21 Bill Simmons? You could go Baker Boys in this movie as like a little bookend.
1:39:26 Chris Ryan? You know what you talked me into is Panic Room.
1:39:28 Speaker 01 That's fun.
1:39:28 Bill Simmons? Ooh.
1:39:29 Speaker 01 I like that.
1:39:29 Chris Ryan? Stuck in the house.
1:39:30 Speaker 01 I would either wanna do Ford Actually Is the Bad Guy and pair it with Mosquito Coast, or a more ambiguous property of like, part of the journey of discovery is, is he guilty or not guilty and pair it with either the fugitive or presumed innocent.
1:39:44 Bill Simmons? Some people wanted us to do Who Lost the Movie Before Who Won the Movie, but I, I think that's, Who Lost the Movie's gonna be too hard.
1:39:51 Chris Ryan? Too negative.
1:39:51 Bill Simmons? It's a category, yeah.
1:39:53 Speaker 01 Not really this hard this time.
1:39:55 Chris Ryan? I would say, yeah, we can pass on that category. I was gonna say,
1:39:59 Bill Simmons? Who Won the Movie?
1:40:00 Chris Ryan? I would say Zemeckis might have lost this one, just because he, he comes back with Cast Away and everything, and I understand.
1:40:05 Speaker 01 Not Agent Phil Coulson, Clark Craig?
1:40:07 Bill Simmons? I mean, this made 300 million dollars. I'm sure he feels like it was a dub.
1:40:10 Chris Ryan? I just feel like he doesn't.
1:40:11 Bill Simmons? I don't like Who Lost the Movie, yeah. We'll know when it's the right time to do that. Who Won the Movie, though?
1:40:16 Speaker 01 Pfeiffer.
1:40:17 Bill Simmons? I think Pfeiffer.
1:40:18 Speaker 01 Michelle.
1:40:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Craig?
1:40:22 Speaker 03 Rock solid. Enjoyed it?
1:40:23 Bill Simmons? Oh, we're up to a good 2026.
1:40:26 Speaker 03 It's a great movie to discuss right after it ends, because there's so many red herrings that don't, that don't tie up. Like, the four of us, the four people that I watched with, we just like talked about it for half an hour, being like, so wait, why did he try to kill himself in the tub? Why did he fake the death in the tub? What was up with the neighbor? I do think, I don't, I don't love the end of this movie. I do think the end kind of drops this from an eight to a seven. I think like reanimating her and the water was unnecessary.
1:40:51 Chris Ryan? I think they could have ended it at the house.
1:40:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, or it's like, I don't mind her showing up on the bridge and causes him to drive off. But adding her below, like physically ripping him down, I don't know, it went a little too far there, I feel like. But the other thing is I don't like seeing evil Harrison Ford, I just don't. We need a category for like, that's my friend, I hate this.
1:41:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:41:11 Speaker 01 No, no.
1:41:11 Bill Simmons? Please don't.
1:41:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:41:13 Speaker 01 That's why it's great.
1:41:14 Speaker 03 He's my pal. I don't want to see him evil. I don't want to see him killing women.
1:41:17 Speaker 01 But they're like weaponizing your expectation that he's
1:41:19 Speaker 03 I completely get it. I don't like it.
1:41:21 Speaker 01 That he's Decker, that he's Han Solo.
1:41:23 Bill Simmons? So what's the Tom Cruise movie for that? Please don't do this, he's my friend.
1:41:28 Speaker 03 Like, could you do this for every great actor? Like, what's like, your favorite actor, what's the movie they're in where you're like, oh, don't do that. Don't do that today.
1:41:34 Bill Simmons? For Tom Cruise, it was Interview the Vampire.
1:41:37 Chris Ryan? That's a really good question.
1:41:39 Speaker 03 You know? Like me seeing Harrison Ford in this, I'm like, ugh, that's my guy. I hate, I hate watching this.
1:41:44 Chris Ryan? I'm trying to think of like a Colin Farrell movie where I'm like, oh, please, not, not like this. Honestly, I, this is one of the reasons why I'm like
1:41:51 Bill Simmons? That's the name of the category, not like this.
1:41:53 Chris Ryan? I don't actually, I think one of the reasons why I had a hard time watching The Penguin is I was like, this is my guy. You know, like
1:41:59 Speaker 01 Dude, he's dynamite in that.
1:42:01 Chris Ryan? But I just want him to be beautiful. You know, he's Colin Farrell.
1:42:05 Bill Simmons? You want to be a fiend for Mahino.
1:42:06 Speaker 01 Odd job is a lot of things, but beautiful is not one of them.
1:42:09 Bill Simmons? Trying to think what Denzel's not like this movie is.
1:42:13 Chris Ryan? Uh, Roman J. Esquire, what was that?
1:42:16 Bill Simmons? Oh, Roman J. Israel?
1:42:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
1:42:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah. I didn't like that movie that much.
1:42:21 Speaker 03 Also, you bringing up Housemaid, not Handmaid, Housemaid.
1:42:24 Chris Ryan? Housemaid.
1:42:25 Speaker 03 I feel like
1:42:26 Bill Simmons? Really bad.
1:42:27 Speaker 03 What this movie does, like, this movie has two A-listers in it, right? Now, the movie Housemaid, I guess Sidney Sweetin and Amanda Seyfried are, are big names, but
1:42:37 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:42:37 Speaker 03 They don't, the B movie with the A-listers doesn't happen anymore.
1:42:41 Chris Ryan? Not as much.
1:42:41 Speaker 03 Now, like for this movie to be remade now with the same star power, it would be like Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in this movie, which would be awesome. But they just don't do that anymore. And I, I enjoy the B movie with the A-lister, but it's more rare now because they won't do it.
1:42:56 Bill Simmons? Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in What Lies Beneath is exactly what 2025's version of this movie would be.
1:43:02 Chris Ryan? But they needed, like, that would, it would either be a Christopher Nolan movie, which would be like, this is $300 million or whatever, or it would be-
1:43:10 Speaker 01 And it's about time.
1:43:11 Chris Ryan? A B movie that goes to streaming.
1:43:12 Speaker 03 Or it's like, really small indie 824, and there's like, something less, much more dark and upsetting and serious about it. It's not just like a, you know, a ghost story.
1:43:22 Bill Simmons? You know who they couldn't do that with? Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh, because they don't work together anymore. They fired him.
1:43:29 Speaker 01 I think it was the right decision.
1:43:31 Bill Simmons? Because you're rookie kicker.
1:43:33 Speaker 01 Well, it's not Tyler Loops' fault.
1:43:35 Bill Simmons? You went two yards backwards to make a kick harder on him.
1:43:38 Speaker 01 It's not Tyler Loops' fault, he's innocent in all of this.
1:43:40 Bill Simmons? Fireball offense.
1:43:42 Chris Ryan? For the kicker or for the coach?
1:43:43 Bill Simmons? For the coach.
1:43:44 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:43:44 Speaker 01 Well, guess what? He got fired.
1:43:45 Bill Simmons? Time to go.
1:43:46 Speaker 01 Not for that, I think, but for anything.
1:43:48 Bill Simmons? What are you trying to center the ball for, you dumbass, here in Pittsburgh on a night game?
1:43:51 Speaker 01 Time for some fresh blood and new ideas, you know?
1:43:54 Speaker 03 Did you have a problem with that in the moment? Then, the 12 seconds with the timeout?
1:43:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:43:57 Speaker 03 You did.
1:43:58 Bill Simmons? Who doesn't? Pittsburgh's a house of horrors. Nobody likes getting a field goal ever in Pittsburgh.
1:44:03 Speaker 03 The Dantys disagreed. I thought, as a Steelers fan, I was like, I'm thrilled they're not trying to get five more yards right now.
1:44:08 Speaker 01 Losing yards is absurd. Not trying to gain any yards is absurd. I texted my dad in real time and I said, goes to Billy Quintero. Which, of course, was even more dire in a number of respects, but-
1:44:16 Bill Simmons? That one was worse, though, because Lee Evans had the ball and Sterling Moore, who was like this-
1:44:20 Speaker 01 Well, the situation, I mean, it was a closer kick, all of it, but like-
1:44:24 Chris Ryan? I still think it's really funny because Derwin James is gonna like, break Drake May's sternum now.
1:44:29 Speaker 01 Jesus.
1:44:31 Chris Ryan? Like, he's just like, let's fuck with the Ravens some more. It's like, it's definitely just, you're seeding it. You're seeding it. It's gonna be your fault.
1:44:39 Bill Simmons? I think it's gonna be Jacksonville that gets us.
1:44:41 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:44:42 Speaker 01 Jacksonville, interesting.
1:44:44 Bill Simmons? We'll see. CR, pleasure as always. Mao, the pleasure was mine. Craig, thank you. Gahao, pleasure.
1:44:53 Speaker 03 Eduardo.
1:44:53 Bill Simmons? Eduardo, wherever you are, thank you. Oh, Eduardo and I go head to head this weekend. Who knows? We might not even be talking by the time people hear this.
1:45:01 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:45:01 Bill Simmons? Uh, rewatch post. Thank you, everybody.
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