Pod Insights The Rewatchables ‘Jeremiah Johnson’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Bill’s Dad About this episode The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan, plus Bill’s dad, give it all up to become three podcasting mountain men after rewatching Robert Redford in ‘Jeremiah Johnson,’ also starring Will Geer and Allyn Ann McLerie and directed by Sydney Pollack.
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Ronak Nair, and Eduardo Ocampo
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Transcript 18,022 words · 11 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.
0:25 Speaker 01 Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.
0:37 Speaker 02 I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.
0:57 Speaker 01 Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.
1:24 Speaker 02 Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.
1:30 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit AngryOrchard.com. Angry Orchard Cider Company, LLC. AngryOrchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. We find the watch.
2:12 Chris Ryan? Here we are.
2:12 Bill Simmons? With CR. Did you solve that crime in task yet?
2:16 Chris Ryan? It's not really a crime, Bill. It's a journey of spiritual awakening.
2:19 Bill Simmons? My bad. My dad doesn't have a podcast. This is only the second time he's ever been on the Rewatchables.
2:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but it's his second time on the Ringer Podcast Network in two days.
2:29 Bill Simmons? Right, that is true. You taped yesterday on the Red Sox game one, which will be, by the time we, people hear this, they'll have known what will happen with the Red Sox Yankees.
2:38 Speaker 05 In 20 hours, two times.
2:41 Bill Simmons? The only other time you ever came on the Rewatchables.
2:44 Speaker 05 Shawshank.
2:45 Bill Simmons? Shawshank for my 50th birthday. And now we are doing, it's Robert Redford month. We are doing my dad's favorite movie ever, Jeremiah Johnson. It's next. This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by Paramount Plus. Around here, we love talking about rewatchable movies almost as much as we love watching them. Paramount Plus has movies, a mountain of them, new movies, and also the classics that we keep coming back to. Almost Famous, Gladiator, Top Gun, The Naked Gun, them all, whether you want to relive your favorite moments, or catch the latest blockbusters, or dive into some old 90210, there's a mountain of movies to discover on Paramount Plus. Start streaming today.
3:42 Bill Simmons? All right, CR, it's Redford Month.
3:44 Chris Ryan? It is.
3:45 Bill Simmons? You can't have Redford Month without Jeremiah Johnson, which I did not invent the Mountain Man movie, but I think still is in the running for the best one. Redford said it was his favorite of all of his movies.
3:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah, do you think that's because of his affection for the landscape that it's set in? I mean, it's essentially shot in his adopted backyard, right?
4:04 Bill Simmons? Right, it's filmed in Utah. He looks great. He gets to grow all this different facial hair. He gets to kill some Native Americans who are coming after him and...
4:15 Chris Ryan? It's a complicated situation.
4:16 Bill Simmons? It's, you know, he's just a pilgrim trying to make it work and pisses some people off. And Dad, ever since I was a kid, this movie was on. You would have this on all the time, to the point we would make fun of you. Really? Again? Jeremiah Johnson? What is it? What was it about this movie?
4:34 Speaker 05 Well, it came out in 1972. You were...
4:39 Bill Simmons? I was three.
4:40 Speaker 05 Three years old. And I had read an article, I read that it was coming out. And then I read an article about John Liveriding Johnson.
4:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
4:50 Speaker 05 About whom the film is loosely based, I guess. And the guy sounded like such a character. And of course, they exaggerated how many crow he killed. One article said 300 during the 10 years and da, da, da. So I was so excited to see the movie. And I remember going by myself. You were too young to go at that point.
5:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:13 Speaker 05 And walking out of that, and there are probably five other people in the theater. Because initially, initially, it wasn't well received.
5:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:23 Speaker 05 You know, that kind of a movie at that point in time. And I remember walking out of the theater saying, I'm going to see this movie many times during my lifetime.
5:31 Bill Simmons? And it was on all the time.
5:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
5:33 Bill Simmons? It just felt like it was on for, it was another one that was, not even on like TNT, more like, whatever your local, what were your local Philly stations? We had Channel 38 and 56.
5:43 Chris Ryan? Channel 11 or whatever.
5:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it was just on. It was just being on, it would be in a two and a half hour block with commercials.
5:48 Chris Ryan? Um, what do you, what do you think, Dr. Bill? What, what draws you back to this movie over and over again? Is it the, I mean, this is about as close to a national park as you can get without leaving your house.
6:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
6:01 Speaker 05 You know, it's partly Redford, obviously. It's also partly Redford's love for nature. And, you know, he, he searched for peace in nature and then he established Sundance. And, I mean, it, I'm not surprised it was his favorite movie. It just seemed to ring, you know, ring all the bells for him in terms of his life, how he led his life. I just like, I love the outdoor scenery.
6:28 Chris Ryan? It's incredible.
6:29 Speaker 05 You know, you don't, you don't see that in another movie. We'll, we'll talk about it later. I love the voiceover. I love the music. Uh, the whole package just clicked with me.
6:38 Chris Ryan? There's something very old fashioned about the way it's made. It feels like a 50s or 60s epic from Hollywood, but it has a 1970s sensibility.
6:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
6:47 Chris Ryan? And I watched it one time all the way through getting ready for this pod. And I was like, yeah, that's about as good as I remember it. It's pretty cool. And it's, we're going to talk about the vengeance turn it makes late in the film. But then as like, like the last couple of days, I've been like, you know what I kind of watch? Just want to watch him riding his horse through the mountains a couple of times.
7:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
7:05 Chris Ryan? And I would just throw it on and skip to a vista that I wanted to see. And then just let the movie play from there. And it really is quite gorgeous and really relaxing to watch some of, of like, just that absolute gorgeous, gorgeous scenery and terrain that they filmed this in.
7:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's gonna be a tough great shot Gordo category for us. It reminds me, and I, I should say the, the movie I'm about to mention reminds me of Jeremiah Johnson, but Castaway. When Castaway started making its run and it has that hour long stretch with Hanks on the island and there's no music and it's just kind of peaceful to have on. You can hear the ocean. He's by himself. There's not a lot of dialogue. There's drama and intensity, but not really. It's okay. And, uh, this movie for long stretches, you're just like hanging out with it.
7:53 Chris Ryan? There's a, this is a little bit of a blank spot for me with, and I think for Hollywood as well, it's not an era that they made ton of movies about.
8:00 Bill Simmons? That like 1840s, 50s?
8:02 Chris Ryan? 1840s, after the Mexican war, mountain men, real, real first frontiersmen kind of thing. Like, you know, I think like Disney did the David Crockett movies. I think those are kind of like set around this time.
8:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
8:16 Chris Ryan? It's about him going to Texas and stuff, but this is not an era that I know a ton about, but the survivalist mountain man genre to the extent that there is one, and even just man versus nature is a very, very reliable subgenre.
8:32 Bill Simmons? Well, Dad, we, I don't know how many westerns we watched, but it, it just felt like the seventies were all cowboys versus Indians movies that had been made for thirty straight years, right? And then Clint, who is, I think Clint's your favorite actor of all time, right? See number one?
8:50 Speaker 05 Yeah, he's he's number one.
8:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah, so we would watch all of those, but this was this had a distinct that mountain man kind of movie. This kind of grabbed the corner of it. I think the best.
9:01 Speaker 05 Well, I agree that that that era was not an era I knew very much about. I mean,
9:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
9:06 Speaker 05 eighteen fifteen to eighteen forty or forty five before the Civil War, there weren't a lot of movies made about that period of time.
9:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
9:14 Speaker 05 And certainly not about mountain men. And the and the film does a nice segue eventually from mountain men to settlers.
9:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
9:23 Speaker 05 And then you started to see some movie about settlers and, you know.
9:28 Chris Ryan? How the West Was Won kind of stuff. Yeah.
9:30 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah.
9:31 Chris Ryan? Uh, Dr. Bill, I wanted to ask you, you know, I was gonna save this for the what's the most nineteen seventy two part of this movie, but when you saw this in the seventies in the theater, did you feel like it was subtly commentating on people coming back from Vietnam, being disillusioned? Because a lot of these seventies westerns like McCabe and Mrs. Miller and this, some of the Clint stuff.
9:54 Bill Simmons? Like proxy stuff.
9:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah, they're like, it's about people who are disillusioned with what they thought they were told about the country, or what they thought they knew about being a soldier. And now they've come back and they're trying to make sense of their lives. Like, did you feel like it had some contemporary parallels?
10:10 Speaker 05 I definitely did. I mean, almost throughout most of the movie, he's still wearing his uniform.
10:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
10:17 Speaker 05 The uniform pants that must have eventually smelled pretty bad.
10:24 Speaker 05 They they never came off.
10:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
10:27 Speaker 05 Yeah. And he was escaping civilization. He was, you know, somebody asked him a question
10:34 Speaker 05 about, is there a war going on? Or and he just wanted to get away from it all. I mean, whatever happened in the Mexican War and whatever his part was in it, they didn't talk about.
10:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
10:46 Speaker 05 You just knew that he had a bad experience and he had to get away. And he left civilization to do that.
10:55 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean, that was one of the unanswerable questions is, was he a deserter?
10:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
11:00 Bill Simmons? Because he asked at the end, he's he the Mexican War comes up and he asked like,
11:04 Chris Ryan? Did we like who won?
11:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, who won?
11:06 Speaker 05 Who won?
11:07 Bill Simmons? So he he got out of there before then. There's a theory on the Internet. Granted, the Internet isn't batting a thousand.
11:13 Chris Ryan? Is there an R slash conspiracy Jeremiah Johnson board?
11:18 Bill Simmons? He was a deserter, it was his fault. We, uh, did we win the war? I don't even know who won the Mexican war.
11:22 Chris Ryan? Well, I mean, I think it was, it was.
11:24 Bill Simmons? Probably a draw.
11:25 Chris Ryan? We won, quote unquote, but there was a lot of treaties and negotiations.
11:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah, so I do feel like, it's funny, cause Dances with Wolves, which, I really like Dances with Wolves, but it's funny how much it cribs from this movie.
11:38 Chris Ryan? Sure.
11:39 Bill Simmons? Um, especially like the disillusioned soldier, like kinda at wit's end and then just on his own.
11:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and finds a kind of balance in his life when he comes into contact with an indigenous culture and finds like, okay, this is, there's, there's like a sense of, uh, there's a sense of symmetry or calmness or spiritual fulfillment here that I wasn't getting in the kind of grind people up, spit them out, American culture.
12:05 Bill Simmons? The three of us would have been done immediately, cause bad eyesight. We're just done.
12:09 Chris Ryan? I have, I have this in my.
12:10 Bill Simmons? We're done. Yeah. There's no contact lens solution in the, in the wilderness.
12:14 Chris Ryan? But this is a much more picturesque version of it than the Revenant.
12:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's another one.
12:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
12:19 Bill Simmons? So the mountain man era, Jeremiah Johnson, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, A Man Called Horse with Richard Harris.
12:26 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
12:28 Bill Simmons? Little Big Man with Hoffman, Once Upon a Time in the West with Fonda and, and, uh, Charles Bronson. And then pick, I don't know how many Eastwood movies, but, and then you would see like Dances with Wolves brought it back, The Revenant brought it back. People, people would go back, even Last of the Mohicans, sort of.
12:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's, that's like a, that predates all of this stuff. That's, that's still 18th century, right?
12:50 Bill Simmons? But, but it's still a dude outdoors who really knows how to do shit.
12:54 Chris Ryan? Yes.
12:54 Bill Simmons? And there's some bad guys in his world and then he's gotta navigate it.
12:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and usually they come into, they have like a love that then like corrupts, a love that gets sacrificed to like the modern incoming world.
13:07 Bill Simmons? Dad, it's like the, uh, the boxing movie and the mountain man movie are the two, the two vanity actor projects where they're like, yeah, I'll live in the mountains. I'll get to make a log cabin. I'll grow a beard. Like those are the two, right? You would have been a mount, if you could have been an actor, you would have been a mountain man guy. I don't see you in the ring.
13:27 Speaker 05 No, I would not have been in the ring. And I was a boy scout in the Eagle Scout, remember?
13:33 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's true. Yeah, way, way back.
13:35 Speaker 05 I could live in the outdoors.
13:36 Bill Simmons? So what is it about the Mountain Man movie? What, what, what, you love the, the peace of it, the serenity? The fact that our guy has to just rely on his natural wits to make it like, what is it?
13:49 Speaker 05 That's part of it, but I thought there were some intriguing characters in the movie.
13:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:55 Speaker 05 That you don't see in many other movies. Each character bringing something different to Jeremiah Johnson's life. And
14:05 Speaker 05 Yeah. Um, we'll talk about those characters, but I thought they all, it all meld, it blended well for me. Uh, from beginning to end.
14:14 Bill Simmons? I'm guessing Boy wasn't one of the characters. Caleb? I will call you Caleb. He's like, okay, I don't speak. Yeah. Call me whatever you want.
14:23 Speaker 05 Caleb was one of those characters though. Who knows what Caleb saw? And, uh, if any one of us had been in that position, maybe we would have lost our voice. So we wouldn't have wanted to communicate.
14:35 Bill Simmons? Also, you know, you know, FanDuel out there, like, there's not a lot to talk about, you know? I mean, Caleb was like me and my dad after game seven against the Heat in 2023. Last season, dad's like, boy, we must leave. I will call you Caleb. We, Tatum is hurt.
14:55 Bill Simmons? The, uh, Sidney Pollack directs this movie.
14:59 Bill Simmons? This is seven Pollack Redford movies collaborations. Yeah. That they did. This one puts Pollack on the map though. I mean, I know he had done, they don't shoot horses, don't they? Like he was, but this, from this moment on, he just rips off. He does The Way We Were. Are you a Yakuza guy? Yeah, I'm a Yakuza guy. Of course you are. Three Days of the Condor, Bobby Deerfield. Um, Electric Horseman, Absence of Balance, Tootsie, and then they win all the Oscars for Out of Africa.
15:25 Chris Ryan? Right.
15:26 Bill Simmons? But he, he has a run, of, of course, leading to his incredible performance in Eyes Wide Shut.
15:31 Chris Ryan? And, and.
15:32 Bill Simmons? One of the great performances of all time.
15:33 Chris Ryan? Partnered with his incredible performance in Michael Clayton as well.
15:36 Bill Simmons? Right.
15:36 Chris Ryan? He's a really good character actor as well. He's the safest, one of the safest pairs of hands you could put a movie in after nineteen sixty-five.
15:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
15:45 Chris Ryan? You know, I don't, whenever he starts and he just is expert at getting great performances out of people. He's got a good eye. And he knows how to cut a movie and keep it going. But yeah, he's the kind of director that I, I do not feel like we have anymore, really.
16:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah, somebody that could do Jeremiah Johnson in Three Days of the Condor.
16:03 Chris Ryan? Like maybe James Mangold is kind of like that. He could do a superhero movie. He can do a Bob Dylan movie. He can do a race car movie and a Western, you know, but it's, it's, they're, they're few and far between now.
16:14 Bill Simmons? He also directed The Firm, but really good at laying stuff out in a, in a peaceful, awesome way, but then also suspense and action and chase and, you know, bad on those. I just watched Three Days of the Condor recently to scout it for Redford Month.
16:29 Chris Ryan? You better be.
16:31 Bill Simmons? It's just an elite movie.
16:32 Speaker 05 I just watched that also.
16:33 Bill Simmons? It's really good.
16:34 Chris Ryan? The, the interesting thing that happens in this movie, because you guys both love Westerns, I love Westerns. Uh, and we both, well, the three of us all love revenge movies. Usually John Wick, a Clint Eastwood movie, what, what Charles Bronson movie.
16:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
16:50 Chris Ryan? The inciting event that brings on the revenge happens in the first like half hour of the movie.
16:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
16:56 Chris Ryan? Here it happens in the last half hour of the movie.
16:58 Bill Simmons? Right.
16:58 Chris Ryan? And it really kind of makes this a very odd, unconventional film to watch, because if you know it, if you're watching it for the third, fourth time, you're like, and then the last half hour of this movie is super dark and we, and, and intense. But if you're watching it to, for the first time, you're just like, oh, cool. So this guy falls in love. This is great.
17:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
17:18 Chris Ryan? We've been here for an hour and forty minutes.
17:19 Bill Simmons? The three of them, they're playing lacrosse.
17:21 Chris Ryan? Nothing can go wrong. And then you know, as soon as the cavalry shows up, you're like, oh God, guys, don't go through the graveyard. Don't go through the burial ground. And it, it really makes a turn in the last thirty to forty minutes.
17:34 Bill Simmons? Craig? Can you give away any takes without giving away your take? Did you, when you watched the first hour and a half, were you just thinking you were hanging out in the mountains with Robert Redford?
17:44 Speaker 06 Yeah, I was devastated when they killed the wife and kid. Um, but I do think it, it's like, I wish the movie had an extra half hour because it made that murder hit much harder than what happened at the beginning of John Wick. I mean, you really developed the relationship and were, and felt so comfortable. So it was, it was one of the bigger blindsides I can remember in a movie, honestly.
18:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah, all right. Save the rest of your takes.
18:05 Speaker 06 Yeah, it, it is two different movies.
18:08 Bill Simmons? I'm still missing Swan.
18:11 Speaker 06 Swan.
18:12 Bill Simmons? Swan was really, it was all coming together.
18:14 Speaker 06 Yeah.
18:15 Bill Simmons? You know, you get given away by your dad because he owes somebody a gift. And it's usually not going to work out well. And she ended up with a piece of life. He shaved his beard for her.
18:25 Speaker 06 Yeah, he was probably getting used to her cooking. Yeah.
18:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah. I don't know about the cooking part. Yeah. So the other thing about this movie that we have to mention, it now lives on for a completely different way.
18:37 Speaker 06 Yeah.
18:38 Bill Simmons? It became, I don't even know if you know this dad, but on, uh, social media, the, the, there's a gif where the camera zooms in on Redford and he's nodding. And it just became this omnipresent social media thing. Like if you agree with somebody's point, or if, uh, you really like a trade or you like some, you would just post the Redford meme. And now there's like two generations of people that only know this movie. They just know that he has a cool beard and he's just nodding.
19:07 Speaker 06 Yeah.
19:07 Bill Simmons? knowingly. Then there's a Nicholson one that's like a cousin of this.
19:10 Speaker 06 Yeah, that's the, that's another nodding one. I think that's from, is that from The Shining or?
19:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Uh, no, it's later. It's almost, it's from, I think it's from, I don't even know what movie. Oh, that's what it is? Yeah. But those are like, Craig, those are the two big nodding memes, right?
19:25 Speaker 06 Yeah. Not Rushmore nodding. Yeah.
19:28 Bill Simmons? So, so it just, the movie completely changed complexion.
19:31 Speaker 06 Random movie to be, to be harvested like that though.
19:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Well, uh, it was based on the crow killer, the saga of liver eating Johnson, which sounds like my dad did some research on. Liver eating Johnson, that's it. We might have to bring that nickname back for a football player.
19:47 Chris Ryan? That's like a 1920s baseball player nickname.
19:50 Bill Simmons? Liver eating Johnson.
19:51 Chris Ryan? It's like two finger McCoy.
19:53 Bill Simmons? Like some linebacker that keeps getting suspended in the NFL. They just call him liver eating.
19:57 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
19:59 Speaker 05 Redford got a lot of publicity because two years after the movie came out in 1974, they moved liver eating Johnson's body.
20:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
20:09 Speaker 05 Different location and Redford asked to be one of the pallbearers, which.
20:14 Chris Ryan? No kidding.
20:15 Speaker 05 Yeah, pretty fascinating little tidbit.
20:17 Chris Ryan? That's a commitment to the bit.
20:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's really, the guy resonated with them. It's one of his favorite characters. Who's your favorite guy? Liver eating Johnson. So apparently he would cut out the livers of Crow Indians he had killed and eat them.
20:33 Chris Ryan? Okay.
20:34 Bill Simmons? I don't know if that was an urban legend or not. They decided not to pursue that angle for the movie.
20:38 Chris Ryan? Because there's no cities. So it would be more of a rural legend in this case.
20:41 Bill Simmons? Decided not a rural, a mountain legend. They decided not to pursue that angle for the, for the movie. Anyway, written by John Millius and Edward Ann Holt.
20:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and a very fun Hollywood development story where Millius is this very iconoclastic,
20:59 Chris Ryan? sort of man's man surfer California kid who's coming up with like Lucas and Coppola and that group of people. And his original script is really interesting to read. There's a lot more, I would say like it's a little bit more fleshed out, whereas the movie is just a lot more like, you know, travelogue kind of style.
21:15 Bill Simmons? Right.
21:15 Chris Ryan? But Millius would write it and then Redford and Pollock would get someone else to rewrite it. And then they'd be like, God, that something's missing. Let's get Millius again. So I think Millius made like a lot of money because they had to keep coming back.
21:27 Bill Simmons? Keep rehiring.
21:28 Chris Ryan? And paying him his fee. Yeah.
21:30 Bill Simmons? He also wrote Judge Roy Bean and he wrote Apocalypse Now.
21:34 Chris Ryan? He did.
21:34 Bill Simmons? And then has a very weird directing IMDB too.
21:37 Chris Ryan? Yes. Red Dawn, right?
21:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Conan the Barbarian.
21:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
21:41 Bill Simmons? Big Wednesday, movies that make no, no, no connection with one another. So Pollock doesn't get nominated for this, but ends up winning for Out of Africa and has this whole thing.
21:54 Speaker 05 This movie commercially.
21:57 Speaker 05 I didn't think it did that well in the beginning and then it got a fan base later.
22:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
22:03 Chris Ryan? It wound up having legs, didn't it?
22:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it ended up being the fifth highest movie of 1972. It made 3.1 million dollar budget, made 44.7 million dollars. Sadly, no Roger Rebert review.
22:14 Chris Ryan? Oh, well, I guess, yeah, 72, he's not thrown yet.
22:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know what.
22:18 Chris Ryan? What do you think? You think it would have given it three, three out of four? I could see him being like, this movie's awesome, four stars.
22:24 Bill Simmons? I think either three and a half or four. He mentioned it, there's some review he did 20 years later where he mentioned, it seemed like he really liked this movie.
22:32 Chris Ryan? Maybe he was talking about it in conjunction with dances or something?
22:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
22:35 Chris Ryan? Okay.
22:36 Bill Simmons? I think, you know, Roger's a plot guy.
22:38 Chris Ryan? It's true. It's not a ton of plot.
22:40 Bill Simmons? Pauline Kael had her usual, I liked some stuff, I didn't like.
22:43 Chris Ryan? Well, by Johnson?
22:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
22:44 Chris Ryan? What didn't she like? Do you remember?
22:46 Bill Simmons? Um, I don't know. We were mean to her in the last pod. I wanted to cut her some slack. She was the audience for this movie.
22:54 Bill Simmons? Well, you know, she might be, might be watching at some point. All right, we'll take a break and then we'll do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of and Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E T H O S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary, rates may vary.
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24:03 Bill Simmons? All right, let's do most rewatchable scene. Dad, it's brought to you by The Home Depot, a place you haven't been to that often because you're not, you're not great with your hands. If you're starting to get into the festive spirit, or think you might be soon, The Home Depot has everything you need to transform your house into a holiday home, no matter your style or budget. I'm talking about a huge choice of lights, trees, and decorations. So if you're looking for movie magic this holiday season, The Home Depot has you covered. My dad is probably the latest get rid of the Christmas tree guy who's ever, who's ever lived.
24:34 Chris Ryan? I think my wife might have to make your dad have a run for it.
24:36 Bill Simmons? Has she gone to May?
24:38 Chris Ryan? No.
24:39 Speaker 05 No, we only go to Easter.
24:43 Bill Simmons? That's four months after Christmas. How late does your wife go?
24:46 Chris Ryan? I, I think we've been to a Super Bowl with the Christmas tree. We get, we push it.
24:52 Bill Simmons? That, that's not Easter.
24:53 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah. My dad has the record. Most rewatchable scene.
24:58 Bill Simmons? Hatchet Jack's letter.
25:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Slightly racist, but pretty charming.
25:02 Bill Simmons? Would you put Hatchet Jack in the Dion Waiters for even though he was dead?
25:08 Bill Simmons? His letter. Being of sound mind and broke legs. Do leaveth my bear rifle to whatever finds it. Lord, hope it be a white man. It is a good rifle and kilt the bear that kilt me. Anyway, I am dead. Yours truly Hatchet Jack. What a writer. Anyway, he must have been happy.
25:31 Speaker 05 He would have been happy that Jeremiah got the rifle.
25:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
25:34 Bill Simmons? 50 caliber Hawken.
25:35 Chris Ryan? And then that, that rifle becomes his, his sort of signature when he meets up with, uh, with Delk U, right?
25:41 Bill Simmons? Right. 30 caliber Hawken seems like, okay, 50 caliber.
25:45 Chris Ryan? Well, the 50 cal, you gotta take, that's what you're taking down elk with. You know? Like, uh, 30 cal, I think you can get your rabbits.
25:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
25:53 Chris Ryan? You know?
25:54 Bill Simmons? Uh, next one. I like, I like when he makes the deal with the Native Americans. Trades them a bear coat for two second round picks and some future considerations.
26:04 Chris Ryan? Some swaps on next year's belts.
26:05 Bill Simmons? He establishes the relationship early.
26:09 Bill Simmons? Next one, bald guy Doug you.
26:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
26:12 Bill Simmons? Shaves his hair because he doesn't want them to take his hair, dad. It's that he's already, it's off his head already.
26:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, but he still, he still ended up on the ground and was lucky that Jeremiah came along.
26:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Uh, he kills some guys and grabs some scalps for, I'm not even positive what his reason was like, but it's a fun.
26:28 Chris Ryan? They stole my horses. And he's like, I'm gonna go back and get them. And Johnson is like, I'm not here to get involved. I'll just help you get into the camp and we can quietly do this. And, and Doug, you gets violent. And it's a recurring theme where Johnson doesn't want.
26:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah. I just want to set some picks and grab a couple rebounds.
26:45 Speaker 05 Well, they, they didn't just steal his horses. They put him in the ground to die.
26:49 Chris Ryan? True.
26:50 Speaker 05 Those birds were ready to go after his eyeballs.
26:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's a tough way to go.
26:55 Chris Ryan? I was gonna say that, yeah.
26:57 Bill Simmons? Top 10?
26:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I'm also very fair.
26:59 Bill Simmons? They're just picking, you dive from like getting, from being sunburned and just having the crows pick your eyes?
27:05 Chris Ryan? He's also going, he's gonna lose his mind because his mustache keeps itching his nostrils.
27:10 Bill Simmons? Right.
27:11 Speaker 05 I thought he had a classic line when he asked Jeremiah, might you have an extra hat?
27:16 Bill Simmons? Right.
27:20 Bill Simmons? First family meal with the new gang.
27:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
27:22 Bill Simmons? Boy, woman, and Jeremiah all together. Um, but I liked, I liked how they build the family thing. Within 20 minutes, I was a full believer. It would have been a fun, like YouTube fake commercial for like a, an 80's sitcom with the Jeremiah family.
27:39 Chris Ryan? So that's my, this is the, the swan montage, I guess it is, is of like after that first night and you know, it's spring, the snow's melted. That whole montage of like her showing him how to hunt.
27:53 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
27:54 Chris Ryan? Them building that house. I love a house building montage.
27:57 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
27:58 Chris Ryan? I think that's my most rewatchable sequence.
28:00 Bill Simmons? I had that in the next one, the building the house. Love watching them build a log cabin, dad.
28:06 Bill Simmons? Two thing, uh, something you, neither you or I could probably pull off if we had all the logs.
28:11 Speaker 05 Oh, I'd have to hire, we'd have to hire.
28:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we'd have to, could you hire somebody in the wilderness?
28:15 Chris Ryan? Well, Home Depot is sponsoring this segment.
28:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah, yeah. We, is there a Home Depot out there in Utah? Uh, I do love watching them build the house.
28:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah, the mud and the hay is the insulation to like.
28:26 Bill Simmons? It's so realistic when you're watching, like, oh, that's how, it's just, it could have gone for five more minutes. I got the wolf attack.
28:34 Chris Ryan? Pretty good wolf attack.
28:35 Bill Simmons? Pretty good for early seventies, like for action.
28:40 Bill Simmons? The crow graveyard.
28:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah, reluctantly helping the cavalry and the annoying ass reverend.
28:46 Bill Simmons? Dad, how many times have you watched this movie? And not wanting him to go through the graveyard, like you feel like this is, it's the 197th time. But maybe this time he won't go through it. He'll know not to. It's the classic, classic movie. No, no, don't, just don't, no, no, no.
29:04 Speaker 05 Don't do it. And, and you know, with the reverend staring at him, who doesn't care at all about Jeremiah?
29:11 Bill Simmons? No.
29:12 Speaker 05 You just don't want him to do it.
29:13 Chris Ryan? The lieutenant has that great line where he's like, you have to hunt, like I have to try and help these people. And, uh, it, it kind of, the way it convinces Jeremiah to do it because he's like, these guys are all going to die if, if, if I don't walk them through this.
29:30 Bill Simmons? Next scene I wrote down was Jeremiah fucks up five crows and passes out.
29:36 Bill Simmons? Then the next one right after that, Jeremiah one V one against multiple crow assassins. Just move those together.
29:42 Chris Ryan? I had the, uh, I, I described this as the NCAA tournament of fighting crow warriors.
29:49 Bill Simmons? And then there's a murder montage.
29:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:52 Bill Simmons? Culminating in the, uh, playing dead, but he's not really dead killing, spirit of their chest.
29:57 Chris Ryan? Sees the guy in the eye reflection.
29:59 Bill Simmons? All of a sudden this movie becomes John Wick and it's incredible.
30:03 Speaker 05 Well, that's a.
30:05 Speaker 05 That scene is a little bit iffy. He, he looks up into the eye of the horse and he sees the reflection of the guy coming at him.
30:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah. How dare you question Jeremiah Johnson's methods?
30:17 Speaker 05 Questioning the horse.
30:18 Chris Ryan? It's straight from Liver Eater, you know?
30:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
30:22 Bill Simmons? I like when he goes to visit Crazy Lady's house and there's a new family there. And the guy says, some say you're dead on account of this. Some say you never will be on account of this.
30:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
30:35 Bill Simmons? Which I have some theories on later. And then the actual ending.
30:39 Speaker 05 I want to talk about the ending.
30:40 Bill Simmons? Go ahead. Do your thing. You can do it right now.
30:43 Speaker 05 I think, I think it's my favorite rewatchable part of the movie.
30:48 Speaker 05 And anytime I watch the movie, if I fast forward, I fast forward to the end because many, we don't know how long, I mean, in the article about Liver Eater Johnson, it said 10 years. There's no timeline in terms of how long Jeremiah was out there killing crows.
31:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
31:05 Speaker 05 But it certainly was a while.
31:09 Speaker 05 And you wonder if, if he ever was going to make peace with Chief, paints in his shirt red.
31:16 Speaker 05 You got the name, right?
31:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah, he has his shirt red, yeah.
31:19 Speaker 05 I love the name.
31:22 Speaker 05 I, and in that final scene, he goes to put the rifle, thinking that.
31:28 Bill Simmons? Right, that we're on it again. Here we go.
31:30 Speaker 05 We're on it again, and this time I'm on it with the chief.
31:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
31:34 Speaker 05 Best guy wins. And then when he put his arm up, it was, it was great. It was just a great way to end the movie, but for me, it's the most rewatchable scene.
31:46 Bill Simmons? Good, good Redford too with the, where he really like gives the extra. Yeah.
31:52 Speaker 05 And the classic line, and some folks think he's up there still.
31:59 Bill Simmons? Get some guitar in there.
32:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I mean, he's also at that point. He's got CTE probably.
32:07 Bill Simmons? He's been stabbed with a spear.
32:09 Chris Ryan? He got a spear in the gut. Yeah, he's got.
32:12 Bill Simmons? He's got multiple infections.
32:13 Chris Ryan? I think his, his hands all fucked up.
32:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's got frostbite fingers.
32:17 Chris Ryan? I mean, like, it's gotta end at some point. I love how the last couple of scenes with the, the tournament of fighting coincides with his legend growing throughout the region. And how it's basically like the liberty valence, like print the myth idea, print the legend.
32:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
32:35 Chris Ryan? And it's like, you can see like, there's a song about it. They've started to build this monument to him. The crow have started telling stories about how this guy is like roaming the mountains, getting his revenge. And it, it turns into a folk tale almost.
32:48 Bill Simmons? It would be funny if he had like the LeBron media machine behind him. Where it was like Jeremiah Johnson. Unclear if he's coming back.
32:58 Bill Simmons? My sources are telling me he's really banged up from that last crow fight.
33:02 Chris Ryan? An Instagram that says he's going zero dark 23 for the next three months.
33:08 Bill Simmons? Jeremiah Johnson taking it fight to fight. Does, doesn't know what this is gonna end.
33:13 Chris Ryan? Jeremiah Johnson, I've actually been watching the crows.
33:17 Bill Simmons? I'm learning. I've been learning from the crows.
33:22 Bill Simmons? My, uh, my most rewatchable is when he takes down the first group of crows.
33:28 Chris Ryan? Oh, in the camp.
33:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cuz it's a classic. Sometimes they'll fuck this up. Like Taken has a version of this in the kitchen when he's with the Albanians and he goes, "Hey, before I go, can you read this for me?" And the guy's like, "Good luck." And then all of a sudden, he shoots like seven guys, but it's in the kitchen and every, anytime you see scenes like that, you're always like. Yeah, the sixth guy probably could have gotten his gun out in time, right? As he's.
33:55 Chris Ryan? But these guys, like, you shoot once back in 1840, it takes you five minutes to reload.
34:00 Bill Simmons? Right. Well, he does the double rifle to start out. I have, I have a breakdown of this coming later, but uh, I think that's my favorite. So you have the actual ending.
34:10 Speaker 05 I have the actual ending.
34:11 Bill Simmons? And then you have family meal with women and boy.
34:14 Chris Ryan? House building montage.
34:17 Speaker 05 You know, the, the, the family piece reminded me of uh, outlaw Josie Wales, where suddenly, suddenly he has a family that's accompanying him on his journey. And remember, the Indian joins him, the woman joins, joins him, uh, kind of a similar take.
34:36 Bill Simmons? I mean, there's lessons from these movies and one of many is don't think it's ever going to work out with the guy, the loner who's in the middle of nowhere who finds the instant family.
34:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
34:48 Bill Simmons? I'm just gonna assume everyone's gonna die. Um, don't go through the graveyard just ever. I think is another one, like just ever.
34:56 Chris Ryan? Ever.
34:56 Bill Simmons? Just take the extra 20 miles to go all the way around. You got horses, you're fine.
35:01 Chris Ryan? I bet in retrospect, you, you wish you would listen to Waze, you know, it's just like, you know, and it's telling me to go take a detour to the Intuit Dome.
35:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you just gotta do it. Uh, anyway, today's most rewatchable scene brought to you by the Home Depot. The Home Depot can help you set the scene for the holidays, no matter your budget or style. Maybe you get from that, from the Home Depot, one of the trees that you just get to put away after you're done with it.
35:24 Speaker 05 Well, we need a taller tree.
35:26 Bill Simmons? Okay.
35:27 Speaker 05 Cause we have a taller ceiling, yeah.
35:29 Bill Simmons? Choose from a wide range of colors and designs to bring your vision to life. And with steady lit technology, the lights keep shining, even if one bulb doesn't. Bring the magic home with lights starting at $2.98. All right. Next category, what is the most 1972 thing about this movie? It's, this is a tough category this time because it's set in the 1840s.
35:50 Chris Ryan? I, I had disillusionment with war.
35:53 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah. Do you have one for this dad, or should I do mine?
35:58 Speaker 05 Yeah, for me, you know, I grew up watching movies like Ben-Hur when you went into the big theater and they had the intermission and the beginning, but they don't do that anymore. So for me, it was the, what they call the overture in the beginning.
36:15 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
36:16 Speaker 05 And the music, there was no movement, there's just a pretty scene. The first time I saw it, I'm thinking, what's going on here? You know, there's no action, there's music, there's a scene. And then, all of a sudden, in the middle of the movie, when you get the intermission, which they call the entreacte, which you don't see anymore.
36:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
36:36 Speaker 05 But for me, that was the most mid 70s kind of scene, or kind of a piece of the movie.
36:43 Bill Simmons? See, Sierra, this is why we're related. I had those two things. A 150 second overture.
36:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
36:51 Bill Simmons? To start the movie, which honestly is just weird. I kind of enjoy it, but why weren't there credits during the overture?
36:58 Chris Ryan? It's because it's basically, you get 10 minutes of music getting ready to get to the movie. But I will say, that overture really sets the mood, this guy.
37:07 Bill Simmons? No, it actually works, it's just crazy to watch.
37:11 Chris Ryan? I wish there were, I wish more movies did that, but I wish they would do it at the expense of like trailers or commercials before a film, you know?
37:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that makes sense.
37:20 Chris Ryan? Like, I would be into it if like One Battle just had the Johnny Greenwood score for like five minutes before the movie started.
37:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
37:27 Chris Ryan? That would be really cool, but, you know, Kingdom of Heaven had this, I don't, I'm trying to remember the last one, Inglourious Basterds, I think the, not Inglourious Basterds, Hateful Eight had the overture and then the intermission, but it's pretty rare.
37:41 Bill Simmons? Intermission for a movie that's less than two hours is aggressive.
37:44 Chris Ryan? Yes, although I do like the enforced, like, you're gonna want to go pee because this is about to get really real.
37:49 Bill Simmons? Craig, what did you think when you started watching this movie and for two and a half minutes, nothing happened and it was just a picture?
37:55 Speaker 06 I was like, The Sopranos ending, I was like, is my screen broken?
38:00 Speaker 06 This is some good scrolling time right now on my phone while this is going on.
38:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's weird, but I don't know. It kind of fits the movie. All right. What's age the best? What's what? What do you have?
38:11 Chris Ryan? I might have the nod of approval meme.
38:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's a good point.
38:15 Chris Ryan? Certainly like number one with a bullet. Uh, I like the crazy John Millius dialogue. When people do talk in this movie, I feel like it's pretty memorable and it's got that that really incredible, you know, dialect of of this sort of formal English with this frontiercy abrasiveness.
38:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
38:33 Chris Ryan? Um, and also.
38:37 Bill Simmons? You want it to come back?
38:39 Bill Simmons? Maybe Amazon Prime for their NBA coverage. They just have everybody talk like 1840s.
38:44 Chris Ryan? What's the other guy's name?
38:46 Bill Simmons? Uh, Bearclaw?
38:47 Chris Ryan? Bearclaw and Delgu. He's sitting next to Dirk. Yeah.
38:52 Bill Simmons? Dirk, I smelled you for three days.
38:54 Chris Ryan? Yeah. And then there's just a couple of really outside of the nodding meme. There's a couple of really good Redford reactions.
39:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
39:00 Chris Ryan? Especially when Delgu's got him in the TP doing like the parlay and he's like, man, this is really going on for a long time. And then he winds up with a wife.
39:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there you go. What do you have, Dad? Any what's age the best for you?
39:14 Speaker 05 Yeah, I think for me, you and I have talked how we typically don't like movies that have voiceovers.
39:24 Speaker 05 But I really thought the voiceovers in this movie and the music was terrific. And both things for me.
39:33 Speaker 05 Usually don't like, but I really liked them in this movie.
39:36 Bill Simmons? Yet another thing that you can tell we're related. It's mostly anti narrator. It's like, prove to me we needed a narrator for this, but this one actually I think needed narrator. It was also like the right kind of voice for a narrator.
39:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah, very calming.
39:49 Bill Simmons? He just sounded like he should be narrating. I have a couple with age the best. This is the big one for me. I, I think, and I think we have to discuss whether this is a new category.
40:02 Chris Ryan? Okay.
40:04 Bill Simmons? Seen the scene, one of the great facial hair performances ever in a movie.
40:08 Chris Ryan? Unbelievable.
40:09 Bill Simmons? He's got five o'clock shadow, he's got a little more than that, then at one point, he's got a beard where it almost looks like it's on his cheeks, it's so high.
40:17 Chris Ryan? Completely wild, yeah.
40:18 Bill Simmons? Then he shaved, then it's back, and I, they said they filmed this forever, like it's filmed for like six, seven months. And the way they use his facial hair, it really feels that way, where it's like he shaved, his wife's dead, and a wife and boy are dead. And then when he goes to get the, the crows, he's got like the right amount of facial hair where it's like, oh, it's been probably a week.
40:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
40:43 Speaker 05 Yeah.
40:43 Bill Simmons? Why, you don't agree with me?
40:45 Chris Ryan? No, I was just laughing.
40:46 Bill Simmons? You like what I call him, boy?
40:47 Chris Ryan? I want you to start calling him Ben Boy. Hello, boy.
40:51 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna start doing that. Uh, but I was thinking, is that a new category potentially, most inspired facial hair or facial hair as a character?
40:59 Chris Ryan? I think where applicable, it would definitely work, yeah.
41:01 Bill Simmons? The Jeremiah Johnson facial hair has actually become a character?
41:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Achievement in facial hair, yeah.
41:08 Bill Simmons? Craig, were you just jealous of the beards? I mean, like-
41:10 Chris Ryan? Look at me, of course. I can't grow a beard to save my life.
41:13 Bill Simmons? It's, you're just watching like, God, what a, I almost feel like this is why Redford took the movie. It's like, oh, I can try out all my different beards. Short beard, big beard.
41:22 Chris Ryan? It changes the shape of his face. I think a lot of people, that meme, people didn't know that was Robert Redford for a while. Cause he's kind of a rounded face, he has such a chiseled jaw, but the beard makes it look so much rounder. People didn't know it was him.
41:34 Speaker 05 There is a conspiracy theory that there were some beard extensions.
41:38 Chris Ryan? Where are you guys getting these Jeremiah Johnson?
41:40 Bill Simmons? He's making this up. He, he made that up. There's no conspiracy theory.
41:45 Bill Simmons? I like, what's age the best? I like that the crows built a statue for Jeremiah and all his kills, like a little memorial place. Like it was out of respect, but they're also still trying to kill him.
41:56 Chris Ryan? Right.
41:57 Bill Simmons? It's pretty good.
41:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it would be like, uh, it would be like the, basically-
42:01 Bill Simmons? It's like the jersey swap in the NFL.
42:03 Chris Ryan? Like Bills fans applauding Lamar at the end of a game, you know?
42:06 Bill Simmons? I, or I was thinking Sixers fans.
42:09 Chris Ryan? Come on.
42:09 Bill Simmons? Like keeping a Tatum shrine.
42:11 Chris Ryan? We were being nice to each other.
42:13 Bill Simmons? I guess I can't talk with Tatum.
42:16 Bill Simmons? I like the, the, in the 1840s where they would just call people by like the most basic, he's called pilgrim, woman, boy.
42:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
42:25 Bill Simmons? It's, I, we, that might have to come back.
42:27 Chris Ryan? Nine people out there in like a 300 mile radius. So you could kind of get away with that.
42:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you didn't need to know names back then. The song in the beginning I enjoyed. Uh, Bearclaw, just hunting grizzlies and collecting the claws. That's his thing. He's like Sean with Blu-ray. Just like, I got some more blue claws.
42:45 Chris Ryan? If, if, this would also be like, if we just called him Sean Blu-ray fantasy.
42:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Blu-ray. That would be, that would be his Native American name. Um, also this guy said, uh, he said Bearclaw says to him, you're the same dumb pilgrim that I've been hearing for 20 days and smelling for three.
43:03 Chris Ryan? There's a lot of like, how much are people being watched in this movie? Like, and being tracked? Which is really kind of fascinating because you have to imagine the crow must have seen Jeremiah lead the cavalry through the burial ground.
43:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
43:17 Chris Ryan? So, yeah, it's, it's getting, getting surveilled out there.
43:21 Bill Simmons? Well.
43:21 Speaker 05 I would, you know, the, when they, when the, uh, when the Reverend and the Lieutenant come to his cabin, the first thing they say is, we're being watched.
43:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's right.
43:33 Speaker 05 That he's, yeah, you're in crow territory. This is crow land.
43:37 Bill Simmons? The other thing, you know, scents are a recurring theme in this movie.
43:43 Bill Simmons? You mentioned it earlier with the pants or my dad.
43:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
43:47 Bill Simmons? The odors must have been just horrific. I can't even imagine.
43:51 Chris Ryan? You must just be nose blind at a certain point, right?
43:53 Bill Simmons? You, yeah, you must like, it, it must just, you just can't smell anything because it's so bad. You're, that part of your brain just must die.
44:01 Chris Ryan? And like, there's no refrigeration for, really? So you're just dragging meat around? Like, I, I just think that they were living on the edge of that stuff. Yeah.
44:10 Speaker 05 I thought badly for Swan, that she didn't have Redford's thick little bath before he got into the sleeping bag.
44:17 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah. They, she probably should have demanded that, but I don't think she had a lot of leverage at that point. After having been given away by her dad.
44:26 Speaker 05 She had no English.
44:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that, so you have that, but you also, I think like they, I think people smelled so bad, you could actually like haunt other people or chase down other people from the BO.
44:38 Chris Ryan? Past. Yeah.
44:38 Bill Simmons? Like, that's like the last level of BO. It's like, I've been chilling here for days.
44:46 Bill Simmons? Redford said, Redford apparently did most of the action scenes for this movie. And he said, half the fun of making movies is doing the action scenes. Anyone can say words. I never do the stunts where a pro could pull it off safer or better, but I do like the action. Where the camera's too close to tell a lie. And the movie's insurance men are back at the office making out policies, like takes a shot. But he would pay off, if he did the stunts, he would still make sure they got paid.
45:12 Chris Ryan? That's good.
45:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:13 Chris Ryan? There's a couple of the fights, they look like he's taking real like tumbles.
45:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah, no question.
45:19 Chris Ryan? The one where he gets hit in the head and then he winds up in the creek and like, you know, he basically like wins the fight and passes out.
45:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:26 Chris Ryan? That looked like he was like really feeling it.
45:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah, no question. The last one is one that I never noticed, which I'm ashamed to admit because this movie's been in my life my whole life. And I don't ever remember my sage dad ever making this point.
45:40 Speaker 05 Well, it depends what the point is.
45:42 Bill Simmons? You certainly never said this to me, or if you did, I forgot. People think on the, on the internets, people think this movie is set. He goes up the mountain as a journey and then comes back down. And when he comes back down, he goes, goes through all the same things he saw when he went back up.
45:59 Chris Ryan? Oh.
46:00 Bill Simmons? And I was like, I think that might be true.
46:02 Chris Ryan? He ends pretty much at the same spot that he first saw Pink Shirt Red, right? At the creek.
46:07 Bill Simmons? Right.
46:08 Chris Ryan? Or the stream.
46:09 Bill Simmons? And then where he saw Crazy Lady, he goes back there and that's where the new family lives. And he ascends up and then down and it's like, and the ascent down is faster.
46:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:20 Bill Simmons? But it's the same, this thing, I don't know if that, you believe that one dad? You've seen this movie 197 times.
46:28 Speaker 05 I never even thought about that aspect, but part of it is not knowing where does he go next.
46:35 Bill Simmons? Right, how long did he live?
46:36 Chris Ryan? Right.
46:38 Bill Simmons? Maybe he goes back and fights the war. That could have been the sequel.
46:41 Chris Ryan? Well, one of my low key favorite parts is when Del Guy says goodbye for the last time and they're like, where are you going? He's like, where are you going? He's like, the Andes. Because like this area is too trapped out. And is now even with the settlers arriving, like losing its its appeal, like, you know, he's like, I gotta go.
47:00 Bill Simmons? He's like, the Andes, it's all out there.
47:03 Chris Ryan? He's gotta grab it.
47:04 Speaker 05 Well, Redford says he's going to Canada.
47:07 Chris Ryan? That's right.
47:08 Speaker 05 But never ends up actually can't go because there's too many people trying to kill him.
47:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
47:14 Bill Simmons? Last of the stage, the best for me is just this movie in the Redford catalog. I think is really important.
47:19 Chris Ryan? Yes.
47:19 Bill Simmons? He doesn't really have another movie like this.
47:22 Chris Ryan? Until all was lost.
47:25 Bill Simmons? Right, right.
47:26 Chris Ryan? Basically, that's.
47:27 Bill Simmons? And if you take this out, I think it's a lot of parts that feel like they're vaguely related to each other. Either he's the super handsome guy or he's the guy on the run from somebody or this one, I just think kind of stands apart for him. That's a good one. Dad, we never asked what is Redford like in the all time rankings for you? Like, is he? Mount Rushmore for you? Where is he?
47:53 Speaker 05 Yeah, he's Mount Rushmore for me. Think of all the you listed earlier, all the movies he's been in.
47:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:00 Speaker 05 You know, a lot of them with the same director, but we've watched all those movies and then when they come on again on TV, I watch them again.
48:07 Bill Simmons? Well, then The Natural is one of your top five or six.
48:11 Speaker 05 Oh, sure. It has to be.
48:13 Chris Ryan? Have you done The Natural? I know I wasn't on.
48:15 Bill Simmons? Did it with Mallory. I think they're in COVID.
48:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
48:18 Bill Simmons? I mean, listen, we could always bring it back.
48:20 Chris Ryan? Can you, Dr. Bill, like in the early seventies? Is there any way to describe how famous this guy was? Like as he's getting into this run where he's.
48:31 Bill Simmons? The way we were Condor, Jeremiah Johnson's, the Sting.
48:34 Chris Ryan? Presidents, like, and he's just the, I mean, like, how does it compare to somebody like Cruz now or DiCaprio now? And like, the way we talk about, I mean, like, what was it like?
48:45 Speaker 05 I think, I think he had a better body of work than the people that you just mentioned.
48:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:51 Speaker 05 I think he was very likeable. You know, there were no scandals about him that I recall. And, you know, he made a significant contribution to the entire acting community when he started Sundance.
49:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
49:04 Speaker 05 I think his movement towards Sundance, I think he he picked, he he was very careful with the movies he picked. And it's hard to remember a movie that was not well done, in which he received criticism.
49:20 Bill Simmons? Right.
49:20 Speaker 05 So I think he might have, for me, he was probably the biggest star from seventy two to, well, continuing on for quite a while. Clint moved in there for me as well. Um, his movies were terrific to watch and rewatch. For me, it's always, do you want to rewatch the movie? And I wanted to rewatch his movies.
49:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it was funny because it was, it was him and Eastwood, but then Newman was in there. Burt Reynolds kind of passed through for a few years. And then, uh, that that was really, that was really it.
49:57 Chris Ryan? You really.
49:57 Bill Simmons? For the mega and Warren Beatty, but he would only make a movie every couple of years.
50:00 Chris Ryan? You mentioned something, Dr. Bill, like his floor is pretty high.
50:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
50:05 Chris Ryan? There's not a lot of clunkers.
50:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you trust that if he was in something, like, all right, I'll give that.
50:10 Chris Ryan? And even now, like, because I think a lot of people have been going back to his films since his passing. It's like, well, even the ones that we don't really talk about are still pretty good, you know?
50:20 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I was waiting for one of the streamers to just have some crazy Redford deal. Where it was like, you know, like.
50:26 Chris Ryan? They're too scattered.
50:27 Bill Simmons? Seventy five, yeah.
50:28 Chris Ryan? All over the place.
50:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Uh.
50:30 Chris Ryan? Come on, Tubby.
50:31 Speaker 05 Goes back to something one of you said earlier. It was his favorite movie.
50:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
50:36 Speaker 05 That he made. That says an awful lot to me, uh, because the diversity of the movies he made over his career. This was unique in my perspective in terms of the type of movie he made, and it was his favorite.
50:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah. All right, we're doing some quickie categories. The Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food/Drink.
50:56 Chris Ryan? Swan's Hot Pockets that she makes the first night and then he tosses them. Why were they so bad? I think it was probably a different seasoning techniques or lack of, like, I don't know, they had salt they would use, but. I just was shocked at how terrible he thought it tasted. I mean, it was probably so bland.
51:12 Bill Simmons? All he ate was like bear jerky.
51:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
51:15 Bill Simmons? Like, he probably couldn't even, his body couldn't even.
51:18 Chris Ryan? Handle it. But I love how he like goes over to the horse and he's like, mm, and he's like, oh, Jesus.
51:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Great shot, Gordo Award, most cinematic shot. What do you got?
51:27 Chris Ryan? I have the shot of Delgu's head sticking out of the sand as Caleb and Jeremiah come over the ridge there. And it also is like, one of the turning points of the movie, Delgu really, uh, changes the trajectory of Jeremiah's life in a lot of ways. And it, I like that they've come out of like this, kind of like, they're, they go, you wind up in like the sandy desert for a few minutes out there. Like, it's so many different climates and landscapes.
51:54 Bill Simmons? Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award, best needle drop's gotta be the ending.
51:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
51:59 Bill Simmons? And some folks say, uh, Chess Rockwell, Brock Laners Award for best character name.
52:06 Chris Ryan? Paints his shirt red?
52:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Can I make the case for Jeremiah Johnson? What a fucking great name.
52:12 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:13 Bill Simmons? Like, like, just pick a sport where that guy would be the coolest guy. Jeremiah Johnson, like, the new wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers.
52:22 Chris Ryan? Can you look on pro football reference really quick and see if there's a Jeremiah Johnson that's come through?
52:26 Bill Simmons? I think Jeremiah, he just needs to come back as a name.
52:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:29 Bill Simmons? We have a million Jalen's now. We're gonna have two Jeremias.
52:31 Chris Ryan? He had a really good run on the summer. I turned pretty Jeremiah.
52:34 Bill Simmons? Oh, really?
52:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:34 Bill Simmons? So it's coming back? It also, it fit the music. Yeah. Jeremiah John. Yeah, good syllables.
52:42 Speaker 06 There was a running back who went to Oregon, who played in the NFL for a little bit, Jeremiah Johnson.
52:46 Bill Simmons? I need that name back. I also really like Paints His Shirt Red is strong. Paints His Shirt Red is a good one. Yeah. Um, we're gonna take another break and then see ours flex category. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Finding a decent piece of clothing can be a lot harder than finding a decent movie, but that was before Quince. Quince has staple pieces made from premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's the perfect place to start building a cozy fall outfit without any absurd.
53:22 Bill Simmons? Markups. For instance, I love a good vest. They have a lightweight, down, packable puffer vest, which is an easy fall layer, although nobody loves layers more than Chris Ryan. You can throw it over a sweater, long sleeve, whenever you want to make an outfit feel a little more seasonal. Simple, classic, one of those pieces that works with pretty much everything that's already in your closet. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order, 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it's a Rewatchables podcast. They would appreciate that. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by Hulu. Glenn Powell is Chad Powers now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.
54:07 Bill Simmons? Eight years after flushing his college football career down the toilet, hotshot quarterback Russ Holiday makes a comeback disguised as Chad Powers. I really enjoyed the show, I gotta be honest. An oddball athletic talent who walks onto the struggling South Georgia catfish, determined to once again take college football by storm. You can watch the hilarious new Hulu original series Chad Powers now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. So Dad, CR gets a flex category every, every episode where he can do whatever he wants. What is it this episode?
54:44 Chris Ryan? We usually save this for thrillers and horror movies, but I'm going with When Would I Have Died?
54:48 Bill Simmons? I snuck that in for later. I'm glad you're doing this. How long were you gonna last?
54:53 Chris Ryan? When the snow fell on my fire in the first 10 minutes of the movie, I died. Don't know how to come back from that. Honestly, I froze to death. If not that, definitely when I fell in the creek fishing, I would have just frozen to death. I don't have a change of clothes. I don't have a towel. There's no, I don't have a foil blanket to wrap around me. And then certainly when I got buried up to my head in the sand by Blackfeet Warriors. That's when I would have died.
55:18 Bill Simmons? I think I would have died in the Mexican War and the movie never would have happened.
55:24 Bill Simmons? That's a good one, though. Yeah, 20 minutes, max.
55:27 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
55:27 Bill Simmons? I wouldn't even be able to see. I would just have been walking the glass.
55:32 Bill Simmons? The Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. We mentioned this. Jeremiah's decision to go through the Crow Barrow ground. It's never sat right with me from in the five decades that I've been watching this movie. I just don't think he would do it.
55:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
55:46 Bill Simmons? Like, he just kind of gets bullied into it by the reverend and the, and the, oh, we gotta go through. Oh, it's another 20 miles. I just, I know he's trying to help people out, but I don't know, Dad. I'm just, I just think he would know that this is a bad thing to do. We can't do this.
56:02 Speaker 05 I think he would know. He lived in Crowland in friendship for so many years. I think he would know. Don't do this. Don't do this.
56:12 Bill Simmons? Well, it's like, it's like Steve Ballmer. Like, you have to know. Don't keep giving aspiration to money.
56:17 Chris Ryan? Do you think it's the soldier in him still there that like sort of responds to the lieutenant? You know?
56:24 Bill Simmons? Or maybe, I don't know, but he was happy, though. I was thinking like it's almost a suicide mission, but no, he, he was just playing lacrosse with woman and boy.
56:35 Chris Ryan? Such a good line when, uh, uh, he's like, you can't, we can't do this. Like you, this is sacred ground to them. And the reverend's like, you can't believe that, can you? And he's like, it doesn't matter what I believe. They believe it.
56:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
56:47 Chris Ryan? You know?
56:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's true.
56:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
56:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I just not buying that. I think that's the weak link. What's age the worst? Oh, what do you have?
56:55 Speaker 05 I have another weak link.
56:58 Speaker 05 If, when I watch the movie again, he got an axe in the back. He got a spear in the stomach.
57:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
57:05 Speaker 05 He got, almost had his, uh, left eye taken out.
57:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
57:09 Speaker 05 And that doesn't count the 50 fights that we never saw.
57:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
57:13 Speaker 05 He had no medical attention.
57:15 Chris Ryan? No.
57:16 Speaker 05 How did he not die?
57:17 Chris Ryan? Big time sepsis risk.
57:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's Jeremiah Johnson. He was just a legend. Guy couldn't, guy couldn't be brought down.
57:25 Chris Ryan? My weakest link is, you know, we get five minutes of an overturn, five minutes of credits, or a couple of minutes of credits. I could have done like five minutes in the town before he takes off. Maybe takes one night in the bed of a lady of the evening.
57:42 Bill Simmons? Oh.
57:42 Chris Ryan? Maybe goes to a bar, throws a couple back, hears some stories.
57:45 Bill Simmons? You want a whorehouse scene to start out Jeremiah Johnson?
57:47 Chris Ryan? I just wanted like, in the script, he spends a little bit more time in the town. And so I was just like, there's some idea there.
57:55 Speaker 05 I think that's a really good point because remember when Del Kew joins up with him the second time? And he, the Indian comes after him out of, in the nighttime, out of the blue.
58:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah, throws the spear at him, yeah.
58:06 Speaker 05 He says, is this how it is? One at a time? And then he says to Jeremiah, and maybe you should go to the town. And Jeremiah says, I've been in the town.
58:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
58:17 Speaker 05 Well, we never saw that.
58:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah, because he drops the boat and he's like, which way is the mountain?
58:21 Bill Simmons? Poker debts.
58:22 Chris Ryan? Poker debt.
58:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Jeremiah got cleaned out. Game of five card, five card stud. What's age the worst? Ah, giving your daughter away as a repayment for a gift?
58:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
58:34 Bill Simmons? Probably doesn't translate to the 2020s. Like there'd be some TikTok memes about that.
58:42 Speaker 05 But wasn't it giving away? It was a trade?
58:44 Chris Ryan? It was a trade.
58:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he traded his daughter. Really? I'd be like, if I traded Zoe, because.
58:49 Speaker 05 But for some really good scalps.
58:51 Bill Simmons? Yeah, true. Yeah, fair. They didn't cast a Native American for the role of Swan.
58:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
58:57 Bill Simmons? They cast somebody named Del Bolton. This was her only film. She only had one other screen credit. A 2002 episode of TV's Monk.
59:05 Chris Ryan? Really?
59:05 Bill Simmons? Thirty years later, just as on Monk.
59:09 Chris Ryan? Fascinating.
59:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't know how to explain that. And then, What's Age the Worst? The bear claw Jeremiah scenes.
59:18 Bill Simmons? I'll just say I wouldn't have subscribed to their podcast.
59:26 Chris Ryan? That's a respectful pass from us.
59:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
59:28 Chris Ryan? New episode.
59:29 Bill Simmons? For the Ringer podcast network. Hey, you know Bearclaw and Jeremiah, the guys from Jeremiah Johnson, they're pitching a pod.
59:35 Chris Ryan? Do you think-
59:36 Bill Simmons? They want to talk to people who are successful.
59:38 Chris Ryan? What about Delgu and Bearclaw?
59:40 Bill Simmons? Delgu, now I'm interested in Delgu. Yeah.
59:42 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
59:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
59:43 Chris Ryan? That has kind of a Kevin Wilds, Nick Wright vibe to it.
59:46 Bill Simmons? No, I think he's on a player podcast.
59:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
59:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's like him, Wemby and Jeremy Sohan.
59:54 Bill Simmons? Just get them going. The three of them. The Ruffalo, Hannah, Ruben and-
59:59 Chris Ryan? All right, I had to watch these, the worst.
1:00:01 Bill Simmons? Oh, let's hear it.
1:00:02 Chris Ryan? It's a little bit of a cheat. I know you guys love the music. I love the music in this, but the idea of having a song in the beginning of the movie that kind of lays out the plot of the movie. And I was thinking about why they stopped doing this and what would have happened if it was just like, John Wick was a dog dad, but then the Russian mob killed his dog, so he dug in the ground, got his guns out and turned into the Baba Yaga. They're gonna regret that.
1:00:31 Chris Ryan? It's just like, and then you're like, I guess I don't have to watch the movie now.
1:00:34 Bill Simmons? Liam Neeson would have been a, Taken would have been a good one, too.
1:00:37 Chris Ryan? Elisha Cuthbert's going to this concert, even though a dad doesn't want to.
1:00:43 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's a really good note.
1:00:45 Chris Ryan? She doesn't need to see you two Albanians looking for.
1:00:51 Chris Ryan? Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.
1:00:56 Chris Ryan? You're gonna want to spend, pay special attention to Kevin Spacey in his movie about criminals.
1:01:04 Bill Simmons? Don't trust his limp. Dad, when did that stop?
1:01:09 Speaker 05 What's that?
1:01:10 Bill Simmons? When they, when they did a song at the beginning of the movie that, that explained everything that you're about to see. Probably a good trend to stop.
1:01:17 Speaker 05 I can't think of another movie after that that did that.
1:01:21 Bill Simmons? Ruffalo, Hannah, Rubenek, Partridge, overacting awards. This is another category we had, Dad. Crazy morning lady who just lost her family, she dials it up.
1:01:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but I mean, what's the appropriate amount of grief to be exhibiting in that situation?
1:01:33 Bill Simmons? Well, she, she exhibited it.
1:01:35 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:01:36 Bill Simmons? Delgu, I, I think probably is the winner though for, for dialing it up.
1:01:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:01:40 Bill Simmons? He's really going for it.
1:01:41 Chris Ryan? I spent some time with Ruffalo. I did not do They Knew to his face, though.
1:01:46 Bill Simmons? You did?
1:01:47 Chris Ryan? I did not. I did not.
1:01:49 Bill Simmons? He's like, are you one of the motherfuckers from that rewatchable spot?
1:01:53 Bill Simmons? Uh, next category, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award.
1:01:58 Chris Ryan? This was, this was really hard for me. Uh, I just, but so that it's not even that hot. I just think I would have taken two or three more, uh, Redford survival movies. That this was an untapped micro genre of his between this and All Is Lost. He was obviously like a big nature guy and I would have been really.
1:02:18 Bill Simmons? Good athlete?
1:02:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah, like he did, he does water in All Is Lost. He does the mountains. Like I would have loved to have had some more outdoors nature stuff.
1:02:26 Bill Simmons? He needed like a Mel Gibson ransom type of movie.
1:02:30 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:30 Bill Simmons? Where he's somebody, somebody he loves got taken or stolen or, and he has to go back and.
1:02:35 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:36 Bill Simmons? Something like, I, I thought he was really good at being athletic. He does some running in this movie.
1:02:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah, he does downhill racer.
1:02:41 Bill Simmons? About his great running in general.
1:02:43 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:43 Bill Simmons? He runs in Three Days of the Condor.
1:02:45 Chris Ryan? It just is some flying and Waldo pepper, but like I, I would just be into some more like solo adventurer. You know, like, like give me a mountain climber movie.
1:02:54 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:02:54 Chris Ryan? You know?
1:02:55 Speaker 05 Well, this movie was the right, what was he mid thirties?
1:02:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:02:59 Speaker 05 I mean, great shape, mid thirties, the right age to do this kind of outdoor movie. Um, I can't think of a, was there a movie, movie where he played a bad guy?
1:03:10 Bill Simmons? No, he never, ever was a bad guy. I don't think.
1:03:14 Chris Ryan? I think he's, is he bad in the Avengers movies? I can't, where the Captain America movies? I can't remember. I don't think he's good.
1:03:22 Speaker 05 Okay.
1:03:22 Bill Simmons? Asking the wrong guy. Yeah, that's wrong, wrong crowd.
1:03:28 Bill Simmons? Uh, you didn't have, I didn't tell you to do a hottest take, right?
1:03:32 Speaker 05 Hottest take?
1:03:32 Bill Simmons? No. Okay. Well, I have one.
1:03:37 Bill Simmons? So I did, I did a whole deep dive on when he starts fighting the crows, how many people he killed. And we see 13 kills.
1:03:45 Chris Ryan? Mm hmm.
1:03:46 Bill Simmons? And I'll do my take in a second. He, the, when he, when he fights the five crows initially, kills two with a shotgun, one with a rifle swing to the head, pulls the guy off the horse, stabs him in the heart, then gets stabbed in the back, shoots the guy who knifes him in the back, cuts the throat of the last guy. So that's actually six. And then lets the singing death guy, who's singing his death chant. Turns out, great way to get out of being murdered.
1:04:13 Chris Ryan? Tell your homies all about me.
1:04:14 Bill Simmons? You just gotta remember like a 30 second death chant and people be like, oh shit, I didn't know you were gonna do that. I'm gonna let you go now. So he's six there. The next two kills, the guy shows up when he's fishing, which is great. And that guy gets off his horse, like it's like a UFC. He needed entrance music. Being like, welcome to the jungle. He just comes in. Uh, and then the guy hiding in the snow.
1:04:39 Chris Ryan? This is my guy. I love this guy.
1:04:41 Bill Simmons? How committed was the guy hiding in the snow?
1:04:43 Chris Ryan? What if Jeremiah Johnson doesn't come by?
1:04:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah, what if he fell asleep? Guys in the snow, just dressed, he has no clothes on. He's just like, ah, this is a good move. Uh, so that's eight. And then has the five kill montage that includes throws a guy off a mountain, pummels a guy hockey fight style, shoots a guy, fights someone, but we don't see the death and then kills a guy in the water. So it's 13. And then the final kill, when he plays dead and sees the guy from through the horse's eyes, shoots the guy, gets spared. That's 14. My hottest take, I couldn't.
1:05:17 Speaker 05 So we see.
1:05:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah, 14.
1:05:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:05:19 Bill Simmons? Well, this leads to my hottest take.
1:05:21 Chris Ryan? Five, five, six more?
1:05:23 Bill Simmons? How about 13 more?
1:05:24 Chris Ryan? It almost.
1:05:25 Bill Simmons? I could have gone to 28 to 30. I could have kept watching this. I, not enough kills.
1:05:32 Bill Simmons? John Wick killed like a hundred people. Were you like, ah, John Wick killed too many people in this movie?
1:05:37 Chris Ryan? I think it's also just that they keep finding creative ways to do it in the mountain landscape. Like the guy.
1:05:43 Bill Simmons? Didn't they just ran out of ways?
1:05:44 Chris Ryan? Maybe, yeah.
1:05:45 Bill Simmons? Where was the guy jumping out of a tree on top of him? They, they missed that.
1:05:49 Chris Ryan? They didn't do it.
1:05:50 Bill Simmons? They missed the guy coming out of the water.
1:05:52 Chris Ryan? You second guessing quarterbacks going through their progressions? How do you not see your check down right there?
1:05:59 Bill Simmons? What, does somebody under the bed? I thought would have been a good one.
1:06:02 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
1:06:02 Bill Simmons? I just thought they left some murders on the table.
1:06:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I like it.
1:06:06 Bill Simmons? All right, casting what ifs. Dad, the role of Jeremiah was originally intended for Lee Marvin.
1:06:13 Bill Simmons? And then, yeah, that's a no. And then Clint Eastwood, directed by Sam Peckinpah, and that was in motion. And then Sam Peckinpah, they didn't get along and Eastwood left and he did Dirty Harry instead.
1:06:26 Chris Ryan? Anybody else you'd rather see in this role or you could imagine in this role?
1:06:30 Bill Simmons? I think McQueen would have been interesting, right? McQueen could have been okay, not as good as Redford.
1:06:38 Speaker 05 McQueen could have been very good in the role. He could have done all his physical action stunts and everything.
1:06:44 Bill Simmons? I don't know if Brett Reynolds could have pulled it off.
1:06:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:06:47 Bill Simmons? I can't see him in the wilderness. The other thing with pulling this off is you really have to have the beard game.
1:06:53 Chris Ryan? Who would it be another beard actor?
1:06:56 Speaker 05 But you know, there's another aspect of pulling it off. Redford loved nature.
1:07:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:07:01 Speaker 05 And his whole life outside of acting was about nature. Um, being at, being at peace with nature, um, leading and, and the Utah scenery. I mean, that's where he ended up anyway. So I'm not sure anybody else could have pulled it off.
1:07:18 Bill Simmons? Best that guy award. So Unger from Longest Yard is in this.
1:07:21 Chris Ryan? Charles Snyder.
1:07:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:07:23 Chris Ryan? The first.
1:07:23 Bill Simmons? The bad guy from Longest Yard.
1:07:24 Chris Ryan? In the town.
1:07:25 Bill Simmons? And then Paul Benedict from the Jeffersons.
1:07:27 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:07:27 Bill Simmons? Those are the two.
1:07:29 Chris Ryan? Uh, just as a, a passing moment, the family that moves into the crazy lady.
1:07:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:07:36 Chris Ryan? Her house, the daughter is country music star, Tanya Tucker.
1:07:41 Bill Simmons? Right? Yeah.
1:07:43 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:07:43 Speaker 05 One of the young blonde girls.
1:07:45 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:07:45 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:07:47 Bill Simmons? Dion Waiters award. Is it Bearclaw or is it DOU?
1:07:50 Chris Ryan? DOU.
1:07:51 Bill Simmons? DOU?
1:07:52 Speaker 05 DOU, DOU.
1:07:54 Bill Simmons? I had to explain what Dion Waiters was to my dad.
1:07:56 Speaker 05 Yeah, but.
1:07:57 Bill Simmons? I don't think he's a big rewatchable listener.
1:07:58 Chris Ryan? But he's a big Dion Waiters watcher, isn't he?
1:08:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he enjoyed Dion Waiters.
1:08:01 Chris Ryan? Eastern Conference basketball for the last 15.
1:08:03 Bill Simmons? Pritchard is now the new Dion Waiters.
1:08:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:08:06 Bill Simmons? No?
1:08:06 Chris Ryan? The committee's still out on that.
1:08:07 Bill Simmons? Okay. Recasting couch director city. I made a list of Jeremiah Johnson by the decade.
1:08:14 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:08:15 Bill Simmons? You ready for this, Dad?
1:08:16 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:08:17 Bill Simmons? In 1982, I think it's Harrison Ford.
1:08:20 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:08:23 Bill Simmons? In 1992, I think it's Daniel Day Lewis.
1:08:26 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? 2002 was easier than I expected because it's definitely Russell Crowe.
1:08:32 Chris Ryan? I was waiting for you to say that.
1:08:34 Bill Simmons? Russell Crowe, 100% Jeremiah Johnson. I think he would have been awesome.
1:08:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:08:39 Bill Simmons? Stuff a legend.
1:08:42 Chris Ryan? Caruso could have played Del Hugh.
1:08:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Caruso's Del Hugh. By the way, is there still time to make that? 2012 Brad Pitt or Affleck?
1:08:52 Chris Ryan? Uh, Pitt.
1:08:56 Bill Simmons? Brad Pitt for me, yeah. So 20- In that role. 2022, I left open. How about Damon in that role, though? I thought about Damon, but I think he loses out to Russell Crowe in 02, and I think he loses out to Pitt in 2012.
1:09:10 Chris Ryan? Pitt's more Western to me, too.
1:09:12 Bill Simmons? Pitt, and Pitt would have loved the facial hair.
1:09:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:09:15 Bill Simmons? He'd be like, "Oh, I'm gonna grow a beard." He would have been like, "Hey, the peace pipe scene with the crows, like, maybe we could use real marijuana for that and make that scene longer." 2022, though, I couldn't come up with. Who is Jeremiah Johnson for this decade? We're gonna need Craig's help. Craig, what do you got? It's because it's not like Chalamet.
1:09:37 Speaker 06 No.
1:09:38 Chris Ryan? You know who would do it? Pratt.
1:09:42 Chris Ryan? Because he's like, kind of like gotten into this like-
1:09:43 Bill Simmons? I don't think he's the same kind of star, though.
1:09:45 Speaker 06 Like Hemsworth, but again, it's too tainted by the Marvel thing.
1:09:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's almost like all the people who are in Marvel ruin-
1:09:52 Chris Ryan? You think Austin Butler could do it?
1:09:56 Chris Ryan? I don't know if he could grow the beard.
1:09:57 Bill Simmons? How, how tall is he?
1:10:00 Speaker 06 Six feet? I think he's decently sized.
1:10:02 Bill Simmons? Austin Butler? Is he old enough, though, though? I don't think he is.
1:10:06 Chris Ryan? He's like mid-20s now.
1:10:07 Speaker 06 No, no, Austin Butler's like 35, I think.
1:10:09 Chris Ryan? Austin Butler's 35?
1:10:11 Speaker 06 I think so.
1:10:11 Chris Ryan? Damn.
1:10:12 Bill Simmons? Could we zag and do the Michael B. Jordan, just Jeremiah's black and it's never explained?
1:10:17 Chris Ryan? That'd be good. Sure.
1:10:19 Bill Simmons? Because if we can do that, I'm going backwards in Denzel in 1992.
1:10:24 Chris Ryan? The black Jeremiah Johnson history lord.
1:10:27 Bill Simmons? He's just never talked about, there's no-
1:10:28 Speaker 06 What about Ryan Gosling?
1:10:31 Bill Simmons? Ryan Gosling? What do you think of that one, Dad?
1:10:32 Chris Ryan? I feel like he's become a little too, like, Santa Barbara now.
1:10:36 Speaker 06 Well, if they remove the fillers from his face.
1:10:37 Chris Ryan? That's what I was gonna say.
1:10:38 Speaker 06 If they cover the facial hair over the fillers. Maybe.
1:10:42 Bill Simmons? I don't think we have a 2022-
1:10:43 Speaker 06 I think Gosling could have done it, though.
1:10:45 Chris Ryan? Maybe.
1:10:46 Bill Simmons? Pre-Barbie.
1:10:48 Speaker 06 Glenn Powell?
1:10:49 Speaker 05 I can't think of anybody.
1:10:51 Bill Simmons? Glenn Powell's too happy.
1:10:53 Speaker 06 What about?
1:10:54 Bill Simmons? Really, I love Glenn Powell, but he's too happy. I was even thinking like, could Teller do it?
1:11:01 Speaker 06 And I don't know.
1:11:02 Bill Simmons? Jeremiah Johnson needs to seem damaged. Glenn Powell's too happy.
1:11:06 Speaker 06 I think the, the, the difference is all the, all those men that you just named, they seem like real guys. And now everyone's a little bit too Hollywood.
1:11:12 Chris Ryan? Would you allow a British person to be Jeremiah Johnson?
1:11:16 Bill Simmons? If you wanted to like stab me in the soul.
1:11:18 Chris Ryan? Right.
1:11:20 Chris Ryan? Like Andrew Garfield as Jeremiah Johnson?
1:11:22 Bill Simmons? Just kill me. I'd be so mad. If they remade Jeremiah Johnson with Andrew Garfield. I don't know what I would do, but it would be great. Craig, you have a flex category. What do you got?
1:11:33 Speaker 06 I want to go back to great shot, Gordo. You guys didn't, you, you didn't really touch on the scene. The shot of the bear chasing Jeremiah Johnson into the cabin is one of the more impressive shots. It's a real bear chasing a real guy.
1:11:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:11:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:11:47 Speaker 06 And they, it's like one.
1:11:48 Bill Simmons? Chasing Redford. Wasn't even like a stunt guy.
1:11:50 Chris Ryan? The wolf attack seems like it's like a stunt guy with a wolf.
1:11:54 Speaker 06 Yep.
1:11:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:11:55 Speaker 06 Yeah. Sometimes when you don't have the capability of stunt, you know, special effects, it's even more impressive and it actually looks better. And I was, I was in shock of that, of that long dolly shot. Just watching the bear go into the cabin. I thought that was incredible.
1:12:09 Bill Simmons? Now they would just do it on Sora too.
1:12:13 Bill Simmons? The bear, the bear would be supernatural.
1:12:14 Chris Ryan? I'm going to go home and, and say like, put a British guy in Jeremiah Johnson and send it to Bill Simmons.
1:12:21 Bill Simmons? I'd be so upset.
1:12:22 Speaker 05 The bear was actually chasing Bearclaw.
1:12:24 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
1:12:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Yeah. A couple of half ass internet research things. Filmed in nearly 100 locations across Utah. Apparently, uh, Sidney Pollack mortgaged his home.
1:12:36 Chris Ryan? We don't make guys do this anymore.
1:12:38 Bill Simmons? He's, he was just really committed to the, to the filming and they were running out of money and he said, fuck it.
1:12:45 Chris Ryan? Before we stop working with each other, I'm going to do this to you. I'm going to be like, I want to start the Chris Ryan show, but I'll put up my house as collateral.
1:12:52 Bill Simmons? I'm going to mortgage my home.
1:12:53 Chris Ryan? And you're like, it's okay. You don't have to do that. It's like, no, no, no.
1:12:56 Bill Simmons? I want to do it. Just for the story. Uh, they said it was so cold that they couldn't really do second takes.
1:13:05 Bill Simmons? And, and, uh, Redford said the crew was pretty miserable.
1:13:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:13:08 Bill Simmons? But, uh, he was very appreciative, but they were basically like, let's shoot that scene with bear clogging like it wasn't happening.
1:13:15 Chris Ryan? I saw, there's, when you watch this movie, you're like, I don't know how they got the crew out there. I don't know how they start, like, they must have hauled generators.
1:13:24 Bill Simmons? The Jaws thing, where it's like, they just kinda didn't know any better. Um, so Dell, apparently the, the tribes back then, they considered people crazy.
1:13:35 Chris Ryan? Touched, right?
1:13:36 Bill Simmons? To be, uh, untouchable. They were like sacred. So Dell would talk to himself, apparently. Because then they would be like, oh, that guy's crazy. We're leaving him alone.
1:13:46 Chris Ryan? And that's when they, uh, when he comes across the woman who's lost her family, he's like, the, the, they're not gonna bother you anymore because, because you're touched.
1:13:55 Bill Simmons? Jeremiah Johnson premiered at Cannes, the film festival, and it was the first Western film to ever be accepted in the festival.
1:14:02 Chris Ryan? Hmm.
1:14:04 Bill Simmons? And then, uh, oh, Redford said, seven cases of frostbite, four cases strep throat, two cases of pneumonia, and only three cases of Napoleon Brandy. Um, he said, he said, uh, he decided, he lived there year round and knew how tough a Utah winter could be. But it ended up being great for the film.
1:14:26 Chris Ryan? I think they tried to give them a bigger budget, but encouraged them to shoot, I guess in California or somewhere else. And they're like, we'll take less money as long as we can.
1:14:34 Bill Simmons? Just enough juice to make them film in Utah. All right.
1:14:37 Speaker 05 They filmed a little bit in Arizona.
1:14:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:14:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Apex Mountain, Redford, no, we already decided it was this thing. Did that last episode, right?
1:14:46 Chris Ryan? What about mountains in movies?
1:14:50 Chris Ryan? Apex Mountain for mountains?
1:14:52 Bill Simmons? It's pretty good. I mean, Brokeback Mountain had mountain in the title.
1:14:57 Chris Ryan? True.
1:14:58 Bill Simmons? Um, no, I think, I think you might be right because of the two and a half minute overture.
1:15:03 Chris Ryan? Takes place off the mountain, though.
1:15:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah, true.
1:15:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:06 Bill Simmons? Thinking about getting back to Brokeback Mountain.
1:15:08 Chris Ryan? That's true. It's always in their minds.
1:15:10 Bill Simmons? The overture of just a wide shot of the mountain for two and a half minutes. Um, yeah, would you say Apex Mountain for mountains, Dad?
1:15:19 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:15:20 Bill Simmons? He doesn't even know what Apex Mountain is.
1:15:21 Chris Ryan? I would go with this or the mountain in, in Alive.
1:15:26 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:15:27 Chris Ryan? Equally difficult.
1:15:27 Bill Simmons? Cliffhanger?
1:15:28 Chris Ryan? Oh, Cliffhanger's a good one. Yeah.
1:15:32 Bill Simmons? Trying to think, what other mountains? Well, the Iger Sanction, that movie.
1:15:35 Chris Ryan? Iger Sanction, uh, the Everest.
1:15:38 Bill Simmons? How about The Edge with Baldwin and Hopkins?
1:15:40 Chris Ryan? True.
1:15:42 Bill Simmons? Uh, Sidney Pollack, the answer is no.
1:15:46 Chris Ryan? What is the answer?
1:15:46 Bill Simmons? I think it's probably Tootsie.
1:15:48 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:15:49 Bill Simmons? Cause then that leads out Africa. Yeah, Tootsie was, he crushed that one.
1:15:53 Chris Ryan? Not, not him wearing suspenders with no shirt?
1:15:55 Bill Simmons? Well, that's our apex mountain for him. You know Sidney Pollack, the director who's, I think a first ballot Hall of Famer as a director.
1:16:03 Chris Ryan? Sure.
1:16:04 Bill Simmons? Is also an Eyes Wide Shut dad playing a really weird guy in the movie. I didn't know he was, it's a movie I avoided. Yeah, good idea.
1:16:12 Chris Ryan? Sexually deviant lawyer, right?
1:16:14 Bill Simmons? Good idea. It's sexually deviant lawyer, good way to put it. Apex Mountain for Crow Barrow Grounds. I'm gonna say a hundred percent yes.
1:16:20 Chris Ryan? One hundred percent.
1:16:21 Bill Simmons? So Will Gere, who's in this movie as, uh, as?
1:16:24 Chris Ryan? Del Hugh?
1:16:25 Bill Simmons? Del Hugh?
1:16:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:16:26 Bill Simmons? Or Bearclaw? One of, I think he's as Bearclaw. Bearclaw, Bearclaw. That same year, he began his role as grandpa in The Waltons.
1:16:35 Chris Ryan? Oh.
1:16:35 Bill Simmons? Apex Mountain, lock it down.
1:16:37 Chris Ryan? Way to go, Will.
1:16:38 Bill Simmons? What a year. The Waltons was huge. You know what The Waltons was, Craig?
1:16:40 Chris Ryan? No.
1:16:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It was the biggest drama of the seventies. It was set, when was The Waltons set?
1:16:49 Bill Simmons? Dad, do you remember? It's like set in the? I don't remember. I didn't watch it. Big show with, uh, your brothers and sisters, though. Yeah, yeah, they liked it. That and Little House on the Prairie. Yeah. Uh, I don't have any other. Did we ever see Del Hugh again in another movie?
1:17:07 Chris Ryan? He did not have much of a credit.
1:17:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, this is. Yeah, it was. I don't, I, this did not lead to him getting his own show on NBC.
1:17:13 Chris Ryan? Stephon Gersach, uh, Gerasch, and he was in a hundred things, but a lot of TV.
1:17:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:17:21 Bill Simmons? He's probably a lot of things where he-
1:17:22 Chris Ryan? He's in Dave.
1:17:24 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:17:25 Chris Ryan? So shout out to that. He's in Miami Vice, season five, episode 16, Victim of Circumstance.
1:17:31 Bill Simmons? Oh, Bill, you must remember that one. I don't remember that one. I'm bad on season five.
1:17:36 Chris Ryan? Yeah, and that's pretty much it.
1:17:38 Bill Simmons? Next category, Dad, Cruise or Hanks? If you could put Cruise or Hanks in this movie, which one would you pick? Hanks.
1:17:47 Chris Ryan? Hanks.
1:17:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:17:50 Bill Simmons? I went with Cruise because I think it it becomes a comedy.
1:17:56 Speaker 05 I don't want a comedy.
1:17:58 Bill Simmons? I think I want to see the Cruise version of this more. Hank's is the obvious choice, but Cruise as Jeremiah Johnson is hilarious.
1:18:05 Chris Ryan? It is pretty funny.
1:18:07 Speaker 05 But immediately
1:18:10 Speaker 05 the Reacher series and Cruise playing Reacher, if you've read the books.
1:18:16 Bill Simmons? I knew this was gonna happen.
1:18:20 Speaker 05 I can't see Cruise in any of these roles.
1:18:22 Bill Simmons? This is the most upset.
1:18:23 Chris Ryan? He's ever been.
1:18:25 Bill Simmons? When they cast Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher.
1:18:27 Chris Ryan? Do you like the Amazon series?
1:18:28 Bill Simmons? Violation for my dad.
1:18:29 Chris Ryan? Do you like the Amazon series?
1:18:30 Bill Simmons? Of course he does. What are you talking about?
1:18:32 Speaker 05 Yeah, I do very much. Yeah.
1:18:35 Bill Simmons? Well, you know what show? There's a show that has checked the most boxes ever for a Dr. Bill show that's coming out in October.
1:18:45 Chris Ryan? What?
1:18:46 Bill Simmons? Boston Blue with Donnie Wahlberg. This is it. This is we finally reached peak.
1:18:51 Chris Ryan? It's just Blue Bloods without Selig.
1:18:53 Bill Simmons? But in Boston.
1:18:54 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:18:55 Bill Simmons? And my dad loved Donnie Wahlberg in the show and loves Donnie Wahlberg in general.
1:18:58 Chris Ryan? Is Blue Bloods set in New York or or Boston?
1:19:01 Bill Simmons? It's Blue Bloods is New York.
1:19:02 Chris Ryan? Okay, this is Blue Bloods in Boston.
1:19:04 Bill Simmons? How did they explain the Mark Wahlberg being in Blue Bloods even though he's from Boston part?
1:19:11 Speaker 05 You mean in the original Blue Bloods?
1:19:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:19:13 Speaker 05 Well, they never had to explain it.
1:19:15 Bill Simmons? He just was a Boston cop in New York for no reason.
1:19:19 Speaker 05 Oh, do you mean? No, he was never a Boston cop in the in the original Blue Bloods. He was a New York City cop.
1:19:26 Bill Simmons? So now he's going to Boston in Boston Blue, but he's still playing the same character from Blue Bloods? But now he's gonna have an exit?
1:19:33 Speaker 05 Well, they haven't had the first episode yet, so I can't answer the question.
1:19:38 Chris Ryan? I thought you were gonna say with shows that check his boxes. I thought you were gonna talk about Landman coming back in November.
1:19:44 Bill Simmons? You like Landman. Yeah, he liked Landman. No, Boston Blue is the peak for you.
1:19:50 Speaker 05 I'll let you know that I haven't seen it yet. It's not out yet.
1:19:54 Chris Ryan? Did you see in Landman season two, Sam Elliott is playing Billy Bob Thornton's dad?
1:19:59 Bill Simmons? Of course I saw it. Unbelievable.
1:20:01 Chris Ryan? He's like eight years older than Billy Bob Thornton.
1:20:04 Bill Simmons? The same age. Uh, Scorsese or Spielberg for this movie?
1:20:08 Chris Ryan? I had Spielberg, but silence era Scorsese could do the out, you know, he could do the isolation thing, but I have Spielberg.
1:20:15 Bill Simmons? I had Spielberg as well. Dad, you don't have to weigh in on that. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played in this movie?
1:20:22 Chris Ryan? Doug you.
1:20:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:20:24 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:20:24 Bill Simmons? I'm scared. Bearclaw. I think he could have gone Bearclaw too.
1:20:28 Speaker 05 I'm old enough.
1:20:29 Bill Simmons? All right. All right. Picky Knits. This is where we pick knits in the movie. We've already done a couple.
1:20:37 Bill Simmons? When his horse died, why didn't he, is the rule you can't make horse meat if that was your horse? Like these people are dying to eat anything, right? Can you not then eat your horse because it was your horse? Is there some sort of rule?
1:20:49 Chris Ryan? In the snow that when he wakes up and the horse is dead next to the, next to him in the camp?
1:20:53 Bill Simmons? That's a, that's like five meals.
1:20:55 Chris Ryan? I assume he still had food from the town at that point. Was he running out of food by then?
1:21:00 Bill Simmons? I don't know, but I would definitely eat Murph. I love Murph, but if, if I had to eat.
1:21:04 Chris Ryan? Wait, dude, that's a dog.
1:21:06 Bill Simmons? Yeah, but if I'm in the wilderness, if I don't have food?
1:21:09 Chris Ryan? Why is Murph in the wilderness?
1:21:13 Bill Simmons? Just, I'm just saying.
1:21:15 Chris Ryan? This domesticated animal that's lived all of its life in the posh part of LA and is like, now I'm in fucking Utah.
1:21:22 Speaker 05 Murph is probably in the swimming pool right now.
1:21:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:21:26 Bill Simmons? What do you have for Nick a pit, uh, pick, picky knits?
1:21:29 Chris Ryan? Um, I just think that there ultimately was like a better way of communicating to those guys just how much he is not going to ride for the burial ground. Like, like you said, the not a stake. It just drives me crazy.
1:21:38 Bill Simmons? Like you raise your gun. It's almost like they had to draw their guns on him and say, we're going through this.
1:21:43 Chris Ryan? He was like, you guys can go. I'm, I'm just not doing this. And then he just was like, actually I changed my mind. I'm going with you. So there's not a lot of nitpicking here other than after seeing what happened to that woman in the beginning of the movie. I just don't think you leave your kid and your wife.
1:22:00 Bill Simmons? What do you have dad? Do you have a big nitpick?
1:22:03 Speaker 05 Well, I had a nitpick, you know, when he was leading the group into the burial ground. And all of a sudden, he was stationary, looking like he knew something had happened because he saw the, he saw Swan's blue trinket.
1:22:16 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:22:17 Speaker 05 On the ground.
1:22:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:22:19 Speaker 05 Well, the timing kind of seemed weird because if I'm the crow chief, I get upset when he enters the burial ground, not, not necessarily when he's leading the group toward the wagon train. Um, so the timing of how did they get that trinket into the burial ground?
1:22:40 Bill Simmons? Right. You gotta go. He's still going toward the rescue site. They're going, they immediately kill a woman and boy, then they have to bring her trinket all the way back.
1:22:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:22:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that is a good point, dad.
1:22:51 Speaker 05 This didn't click. Yeah.
1:22:53 Bill Simmons? It's almost like you've seen this movie.
1:22:55 Chris Ryan? And it also seems like he goes to the wagon train and immediately turns around and starts heading back. He's like, here it is. You guys got it.
1:23:00 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's a good one.
1:23:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:23:02 Bill Simmons? My other nitpick.
1:23:06 Bill Simmons? Like, I know that the crows, like we established, they're one V one fighters, right?
1:23:10 Chris Ryan? Mm hmm.
1:23:12 Bill Simmons? I just feel like if you're coming again and again, somebody's going to figure out how to beat Jeremiah. There's got to be some move. What would have been your move?
1:23:19 Chris Ryan? There needs to be some film study. We got to talk about some of his tendencies.
1:23:23 Bill Simmons? Well, also, what, what were the limitations on the crows? Like, could they just bow and arrow him from far away?
1:23:29 Chris Ryan? I think it was about taking him down.
1:23:31 Bill Simmons? It has to be man V man?
1:23:32 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Yeah.
1:23:34 Bill Simmons? Not one of them, you get come at a tomahawk, jump out of a tree, not one time they caught him off guard, taking a dump.
1:23:40 Speaker 05 Well, he caught him off guard, the guy jumped out of the snow.
1:23:43 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:23:44 Speaker 05 Caught me off guard.
1:23:46 Bill Simmons? What was your take Craig, watching this?
1:23:49 Speaker 06 About the fighting?
1:23:50 Bill Simmons? Like just to the crow, the crows, like. They have Pete Carroll and the Vegas Raiders as their head coach?
1:23:58 Speaker 06 Like, you know, they had a code and they and they lived by it. And you have to respect that. I, I, my picking it is that I'm not sure I buy that Jeremiah Johnson would have followed the cavalry to go save those people. Like, the whole pitch was, he was like, these are Christian people out there. But I feel like Jeremiah Johnson was a man who had given up on religion. He didn't like that swan was religious.
1:24:20 Chris Ryan? I don't think it's the, I don't think it's the God part. I think it's the, the soldier's duty part. And maybe to Bill's point earlier about, did he desert? Is there something inside of him that's like, I didn't, I didn't fulfill a mission I was given and I let, maybe let some people down. Like, I felt like there was something that he felt like he had to do.
1:24:38 Bill Simmons? Any other nitpicks?
1:24:39 Speaker 06 No.
1:24:40 Bill Simmons? Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast or untouchable? Uh, this is absolutely untouchable. Prestige, would you watch a Amazon show, Dad, of Jeremiah Johnson in one season?
1:24:52 Speaker 05 Oh, this is a one, one and done.
1:24:56 Chris Ryan? What about Jeremiah Johnson?
1:24:58 Bill Simmons? He much reach her, but not sure about.
1:24:59 Chris Ryan? Moves back to town, opens up a hardware store.
1:25:03 Bill Simmons? The summer I turned pretty with Jeremiah Johnson.
1:25:06 Speaker 06 He founds Home Depot.
1:25:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that could work. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in The Firm? What do you have, CR?
1:25:22 Chris Ryan? Well, number one, it's obviously, this is yours. It's better with Nell. Because the woman that loses her family basically goes Nell.
1:25:32 Bill Simmons? So just Nell is
1:25:36 Bill Simmons? just doing that.
1:25:36 Chris Ryan? I like the idea of Collinsworth being like, oh, Mike, this, this paints his shirt red, guy. He gets his guys ready to play. I mean, they keep coming in waves. You're gonna have to talk these guys with a tomahawk if you don't want them to come after Jeremiah.
1:25:54 Speaker 06 They're running stunts, Mike.
1:25:55 Chris Ryan? Look, it's, it's not every blitz is gonna work, you know?
1:26:00 Bill Simmons? Oh, Mike, Jeremiah is just, I just can't believe how good he is against these crows.
1:26:05 Chris Ryan? Brian Flores disguised this guy.
1:26:07 Speaker 06 Brian Flores studied the crow way.
1:26:10 Bill Simmons? I'm breaking out a new character for this, fresh off, uh, the Monday night Jets Dolphins game, Dan Orlovsky.
1:26:18 Bill Simmons? I want to see him in this.
1:26:20 Chris Ryan? By the way, did Schrager ever reach out about my legend of Billie Jean imitation? Was that okay with him?
1:26:24 Bill Simmons? I don't know if it was okay with him. He never reached out. It might not have been. I guess we'll find out. I'll ask him. Uh, Dan Arlovsky. I want you to see how Jeremiah takes down the crows here. All right, they're playing too high safety. So Jeremiah has to go shotgun right away. Pow, pow! Perfect mechanics right there. Then he uses his feet. Watch him use his leverage right here. He knocks that third guy off the horse. No penalty either. Perfect leverage, exploits the seam, gets it done. Dan Arlovsky.
1:26:54 Chris Ryan? I, I love it.
1:26:57 Bill Simmons? Just one, Oscar, who gets it? Redford?
1:27:00 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:27:02 Bill Simmons? Probably an answerable questions. We already did, was Jeremiah a Mexican war deserter? I have two great ones, but did you have one, Dad? Probably an answerable question?
1:27:13 Speaker 05 A little bit, uh, you know, Jeremiah became friendly and then seemed to be friends with the chief.
1:27:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:27:23 Speaker 05 I mean, they were trading, they were, they smoked a peace pipe. They let him live in their land.
1:27:33 Speaker 05 I'm not, I'll never understand why just leading the party the way he did through the burial ground led his quote friend to have his wife and son murdered. Uh, just seemed drastic.
1:27:49 Bill Simmons? Big leap.
1:27:50 Chris Ryan? It's the law of the land, though.
1:27:51 Speaker 05 A little over the top, uh.
1:27:53 Bill Simmons? You know what? Both parties were wrong. That's why they settled it at the end with a couple of nice gestures. Did you have one?
1:28:00 Chris Ryan? No.
1:28:00 Bill Simmons? I have two good ones. Do you want the amazing one or the good one?
1:28:06 Chris Ryan? Let's go good, then amazing.
1:28:07 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:28:08 Chris Ryan? Build up to it.
1:28:09 Bill Simmons? Was Bearclaw gay?
1:28:12 Chris Ryan? That's a good one.
1:28:15 Chris Ryan? That's the good one.
1:28:17 Bill Simmons? How's that whole speech about?
1:28:19 Chris Ryan? He had a squaw, right? Once.
1:28:22 Bill Simmons? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for 10 years. Meanest bitch that ever bailed for beads. Don't get me wrong. I love the women's. I surely do. Why are you? Why are you protesting? I'm just sitting here listening to your dumb story. I swear a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the almighty ever made on this earth and I could find no sign on it.
1:28:42 Chris Ryan? That sounds like the 40 year old virgin right there.
1:28:45 Bill Simmons? Virgin or gay for Bearclaw? It's one or the other.
1:28:50 Bill Simmons? Is Jeremiah dead for the last 20 minutes of this movie? Is it just a fever dream? Does he get killed when he gets stabbed in the back?
1:28:58 Speaker 05 No, no, no.
1:29:00 Bill Simmons? Hold on. He's dead. And then everything that happens after.
1:29:05 Chris Ryan? Is the song.
1:29:05 Bill Simmons? Is just too perfect.
1:29:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:29:07 Bill Simmons? He kills all these people. He goes back. He goes back to the old land. There's a new family in the house. He makes up with the crows. And, uh, and meanwhile, he's like Top Gun Maverick, dead the whole time.
1:29:19 Chris Ryan? I like it. I think that definitely the filmmaking changes. At that point when it starts doing like the dissolves into him killing people and the music playing. And it's almost like, is this really happening or is this the story people are telling?
1:29:31 Bill Simmons? It's the legend of Jeremiah Johnson. And really the legend is he tried to fight seven crows at once and died.
1:29:37 Speaker 05 The supposed fable or the story about. John Johnson, John Liver reading Johnson is that after he killed.
1:29:47 Speaker 05 300 crow or however many. He made. Peace again with the crows and. Lived and traded among them.
1:29:57 Chris Ryan? I gotta be hard to get over that.
1:29:59 Speaker 05 Yeah, it'd be hard to get over.
1:30:00 Chris Ryan? It'd be hard to sit down at the, the trading table with that guy.
1:30:03 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:30:04 Chris Ryan? You killed my cousin. And my nephew.
1:30:06 Bill Simmons? So Bearclaw, virgin or gay? You're going virgin.
1:30:10 Chris Ryan? Uh, just from the description of breasts. Yes.
1:30:12 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:30:13 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's a lot like that. They feel like bags of sand. Yeah.
1:30:17 Bill Simmons? He's like, I was dating this one, uh, squaw in the Niagara Falls area.
1:30:21 Chris Ryan? You would know her.
1:30:21 Bill Simmons? You've never met her. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? Dad, very important question for you.
1:30:30 Speaker 05 I, I think the fifty caliber.
1:30:33 Bill Simmons? I had that as well. That's just, I mean, imagine if that was like right there, right now. It's like the gun.
1:30:39 Chris Ryan? I liked his red coat that he wears, uh, when it's on the warmer side of.
1:30:44 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
1:30:44 Chris Ryan? But you'd have to really delouse that, get the smell out.
1:30:49 Speaker 05 My second choice was the beautiful coat that Swan made.
1:30:53 Chris Ryan? Uh, the bear coat.
1:30:54 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's awesome. Dad was a little sweet on Swan. Jesus.
1:30:58 Speaker 05 I did like her.
1:31:01 Bill Simmons? Coach Finstock, our best life lesson is obviously don't pass through a crowbar.
1:31:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah, just don't. I think that's a good, just don't leave your family alone on the range.
1:31:09 Bill Simmons? There is a good quote, though.
1:31:10 Chris Ryan? And also if you're Murph, don't go on a camping trip.
1:31:13 Bill Simmons? Yeah, if we might not have food. I decided that when I'd apart from this life, I'd like to leave something, at least to be remembered on some man's lodge pole. Good high school yearbook quote.
1:31:25 Bill Simmons? Double feature choice. What do you have, Dad? You're watching Jeremiah Johnson and then something else. What's something else?
1:31:32 Speaker 05 I wanted to watch three movies in a row.
1:31:35 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:31:36 Speaker 05 Jeremiah Johnson, outlawed Josie Ray Wells.
1:31:40 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:31:40 Speaker 05 And the, and the searchers.
1:31:42 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
1:31:44 Bill Simmons? By the way, he's probably done that. I mean, that's in play that that sequence happened.
1:31:50 Chris Ryan? Uh, I would probably go with.
1:31:56 Chris Ryan? I guess I would go with the Revenant, because it's an interesting, like, modern retelling of the same kind of story.
1:32:00 Bill Simmons? I was thinking Last of the Mohicans or The Revenant.
1:32:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:03 Bill Simmons? One of those two, but Revenant, I think.
1:32:07 Bill Simmons? It's on the list for rewatchables. It's kind of been growing on me. Yeah. Uh, who won the movie, Robert Redford?
1:32:14 Speaker 05 Definitely for me, definitely.
1:32:15 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna say.
1:32:16 Chris Ryan? You think Redford's not gonna win? Well, I think I voted Newman for the sting, but do you think Redford's not gonna win every movie in Redford Month?
1:32:24 Bill Simmons? I will find out.
1:32:25 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:25 Bill Simmons? Still some Redford months left. All right. This is the part of the podcast when Craig, the producer tells us what he thinks of, uh, of the movie. What'd you think, Craig?
1:32:35 Speaker 06 Fascinating experiment. This movie is, is, as I was watching it, I was like, this is the most alien to anything that is going on today in Hollywood. It is fascinating that, like, this is the furthest thing from what would be commercially successful now.
1:32:48 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:49 Speaker 06 Um, you know, look, is it an exercise in attention span a little bit? Yeah. It's one of the most gorgeous movies I've ever seen. I think it is worth it. It is a worthwhile watch just for the visuals, to be honest. And like, I mean this in a complimentary way, but it's almost like a screensaver of a movie.
1:33:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:33:07 Speaker 06 Where it's just kind of on and you can tune in and out and just the landscapes and the cinematography alone is gorgeous. I also just love that in 1840s, people were still like, man, I gotta unplug.
1:33:18 Chris Ryan? I gotta get off the net. Yeah.
1:33:21 Speaker 06 The fact that he's like, I gotta get out of nature.
1:33:23 Chris Ryan? I gotta log off.
1:33:25 Speaker 06 This is too much. The city, the war. I gotta, I gotta unplug. Um, I also thought this movie was kind of underratedly funny. Uh, Redford has some pretty good moments with Swan and with the family, with the kid. It's a funny film. When you're really focusing on it.
1:33:38 Bill Simmons? So you, so thumbs up. It kept your attention.
1:33:41 Speaker 06 Yeah, I, I think it's the, it would be the hardest sell.
1:33:44 Chris Ryan? You second screened a little bit during this, though.
1:33:46 Speaker 06 Uh, you, there were moments where you have to really, I mean, I tried, right? I'm like, all right, I'm gonna focus and watch this, but I think this would be the hardest sell to, you know, somebody in their twenties or thirties now. Which I don't think is saying anything crazy.
1:33:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's hurt my dad's feelings.
1:34:00 Chris Ryan? Have your kids ever seen this?
1:34:02 Bill Simmons? God, no.
1:34:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:34:03 Speaker 06 Like, don't you think this would be a really tough movie to tell Ben to sit down for two hours and pay attention to?
1:34:08 Bill Simmons? Well, that's every movie, but yeah, especially this one.
1:34:10 Chris Ryan? He also would have gotten up at the intermission like, all right, that was cool.
1:34:13 Bill Simmons? Text dad.
1:34:15 Bill Simmons? I'm glad him and woman and boy made it.
1:34:18 Speaker 06 The intermission also came with like 30 minutes left. I found that odd.
1:34:21 Chris Ryan? That was very strange.
1:34:22 Speaker 06 Why was it in the middle?
1:34:23 Chris Ryan? I do think it's a very, very good time to be like, you're not gonna want to get up for the last 30 minutes of this.
1:34:29 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:34:30 Chris Ryan? But yeah.
1:34:30 Bill Simmons? I'm changing my double feature answer. I think it's Cast Away.
1:34:33 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:34:34 Bill Simmons? I think I'll go Jeremiah Johnson, Cast Away.
1:34:36 Chris Ryan? For solo, solo run.
1:34:37 Bill Simmons? That's like five hours of just hanging out with, with the movie. All right, Dad.
1:34:42 Speaker 05 You know, I, I was thinking, kind of what he just said. I'm not sure Hollywood would make this movie today.
1:34:48 Speaker 06 No way.
1:34:48 Chris Ryan? No.
1:34:49 Bill Simmons? They would, they would have the, the, the crow feud would be two thirds of the movie.
1:34:54 Chris Ryan? It would have to, I mean, it was the closest thing would be The Revenant. It was very much an action movie and they sold The Revenant like Leo fights a bear.
1:35:00 Speaker 06 Yep.
1:35:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:35:01 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:35:03 Chris Ryan? This is like Robert Redford rides around.
1:35:04 Speaker 06 This movie's about solitude for the first hour.
1:35:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:35:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, there's no question. The last half hour of the movie would be
1:35:11 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:35:11 Bill Simmons? an actual hour and a half.
1:35:12 Chris Ryan? But I think in 1972, people were like, hell yeah, brother. I gotta get out of this fucking city.
1:35:17 Speaker 06 I gotta unblock.
1:35:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:35:18 Bill Simmons? Any last words, Dad?
1:35:20 Speaker 05 Um, I enjoyed being part of this because obviously it's one of my favorite movies, but it, a, a little bit of food for thought. The Vietnam thing. I hadn't really thought about in years, but I think you're right on target. Um, and that might've led to why some people wanted to watch it.
1:35:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:35:40 Speaker 05 But we don't have that right now. You know, we have other stuff going on, but I just can't see this film being made today, which is a shame. And maybe that's why I re-watch it when it comes on.
1:35:51 Chris Ryan? Dr. Bill, what would be, you've, you've done Shawshank and Jeremiah Johnson. Is there any other white whale out there that you still want to do for rewatchables?
1:35:59 Speaker 05 Have you, well, one of my top, have you done Josie Wales?
1:36:03 Chris Ryan? No.
1:36:03 Bill Simmons? No, maybe that'd be the next one.
1:36:05 Speaker 05 It's one of my.
1:36:07 Bill Simmons? That's his other favorite movie.
1:36:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:36:08 Bill Simmons? Those are the three, your three favorite movies. Josie Wales, Jeremiah Johnson and Shawshank.
1:36:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:36:15 Bill Simmons? Probably the natural number four.
1:36:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, probably. And maybe Hoosiers number five.
1:36:23 Chris Ryan? We have to re-Hoosier one of these days.
1:36:24 Bill Simmons? My dad wanted me to be a baseball player. We were the best damn one I ever saw. The best damn hitter I've ever seen. Suit up. Uh, Dad, pleasures always. Go Red Sox. CR.
1:36:34 Chris Ryan? Thanks for having me.
1:36:35 Bill Simmons? Thanks to Craig and Gahow as well. And, uh, we'll be back with Redford Month next week.
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