Pod Insights The Rewatchables 'Jaws 2’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey About this episode Just when you thought it was safe to listen to The Rewatchables again, Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey revisit the hit sequel ‘Jaws 2’, starring Roy Scheider, Lorraine Gary, and Murray Hamilton.
Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Ronak Nair, and Jack Sanders
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Transcript 19,572 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:06 Bill Simmons? The Rewatchables brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. You can find the big picture with Sean Finacy. You can find The Watch Yep. with CR back from the Pacific Northwest. Here I am, Bigfoot's return. Flew in to do a little Jaws 2. This one you thought it was safe to go back in the water. Genius tagline. We're gonna take a break. Jaws 2, next.
1:26 Speaker 02 The legend continues, but no one sees it. Chief Brody. The legend continues, but no one believes it.
1:34 Speaker 03 That's a shark. And I know what a shark looks like because I've seen one up close. And you better do something about this one because I don't intend to go through that hell again.
1:42 Speaker 02 The legend continues.
1:47 Speaker 02 Harry! The all-new Jaws 2.
1:51 Bill Simmons? This episode of the Rewatchables presented by Holiday Inn by IHG. It's a new day for a new stay at Holiday Inn for business travelers. Do you count as a business traveler, Sean?
2:00 Sean Fennessey? Sure, sometimes.
2:00 Bill Simmons? Okay. With modern spaces for meeting and working, plus delicious dining for breakfast, happy hour. Do you eat breakfast, Sean?
2:06 Sean Fennessey? I do. I had an apple and a breakfast bar this morning.
2:09 Bill Simmons? Oh, interesting. I don't eat any breakfast, but I do love happy hour and dinner. They have that, too. You have everything you need to get your work done. Give your everyday business travel an upgrade. Book your next business trip at Holiday Inn by IHG. Visit holidayinn.com to book your stay.
2:38 Bill Simmons? Jaws 2.
2:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
2:40 Bill Simmons? Circling this for a while. I, for some reason, own this as a 4K Blu-ray.
2:43 Sean Fennessey? Nice.
2:43 Bill Simmons? I love this movie. The first hour is pretty rough.
2:48 Sean Fennessey? It's slow.
2:49 Bill Simmons? I'd use the word slow.
2:50 Sean Fennessey? Yep. Yep.
2:51 Chris Ryan? Meditative.
2:52 Bill Simmons? And then it becomes amazing. I think we did Die Hard with a Vengeance a couple of weeks ago. If you took the first 80 minutes of Die Hard with a Vengeance and then merged it into the last 45 minutes of Jaws 2.
3:00 Sean Fennessey? That'd be a really confusing film.
3:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah. If they go out to Far Rockaway and there's shark attacks happening. And that's the final Simon Says.
3:08 Sean Fennessey? Put that sandwich board on that shark. See what happens in Harlem. You know, it could be a problem.
3:13 Sean Fennessey? That'd be quite a scene.
3:14 Chris Ryan? That's a way to connect it to New York, bud.
3:16 Bill Simmons? This movie ultimately gets there as a sequel. I really fully, completely support the last 45 minutes.
3:22 Sean Fennessey? There's just some awesome shark kills and that's kind of all you need. The shark kills are fucking awesome in this movie.
3:26 Bill Simmons? There's a couple. Whoa, I can't believe they did that.
3:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
3:29 Bill Simmons? And they hang out murders.
3:30 Chris Ryan? In the background, Dazed and Confused is happening.
3:32 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
3:33 Bill Simmons? So good. I think it's four movies. This is what I wrote down. It's a slasher teen movie. It's a PTSD damaged hero movie. It's a late 70s teenage beach hangout sailing movie, and then it's a shark movie.
3:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
3:46 Bill Simmons? What's your favorite out of those four?
3:48 Chris Ryan? I think probably the slasher monster movie side of it. Like, the idea that this shark is just marauding around and thinking of new creative ways to kill teenagers.
3:57 Bill Simmons? It's basically Myers.
3:57 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
3:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
3:58 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
3:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, just three months before Michael Myers. Right? This is like, this is the true forerunner to what horror movies would be for the next 10 years. They kind of invent it.
4:07 Chris Ryan? There's a little
4:07 Bill Simmons? Corny teenagers in peril.
4:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah, there's a little bit of a detective movie, too, because for about 40 minutes, Brody's like, what could be causing these weird disappearances in the water? I have a bad feeling about this, but you know, developing the film, all the stuff that he has to do.
4:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
4:23 Sean Fennessey? I have a fifth movie that is. It's also, I think, a Sorkin-esque portrait of a local politician having a breakdown.
4:32 Sean Fennessey? I, whatever is going on with the mayor in this movie, I'd like to spend an hour on.
4:37 Bill Simmons? I have a spot there in the pod. So you think this created the West Wing?
4:42 Sean Fennessey? You know, like a man who has to go before the public and continue to deny the truth.
4:46 Chris Ryan? Yes.
4:47 Sean Fennessey? Every day of his life.
4:48 Chris Ryan? Who's turned over the keys to Amity to real estate developers somehow.
4:52 Bill Simmons? He's grooming his son, Larry Vaughn Jr.
4:56 Sean Fennessey? Hey Larry, meet my son Larry.
4:59 Bill Simmons? Larry Jr.
5:02 Bill Simmons? Do you want to do, I, we probably did this in the first Jaws movie, but the Amity, Cape Cod, Long Island, like whatever's going on here.
5:09 Sean Fennessey? I mean, shot in the vineyard, right? But it, I guess it's supposed to be Long Island. Isn't that the idea?
5:14 Bill Simmons? But then mostly shot in Florida.
5:15 Chris Ryan? Yes.
5:16 Bill Simmons? It's just, it's trying to do a whole bunch of things.
5:18 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I, it's a familiar milieu.
5:20 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
5:20 Sean Fennessey? My dad, uh, lived on the beach when I was a kid, and so I was always going to these communities.
5:25 Chris Ryan? But he was not a beach cop. Did he ever have any aspirations or ambitions to become a Martin Brody-esque figure?
5:30 Bill Simmons? Seems like a great job.
5:31 Sean Fennessey? It, well, I have some questions about that, actually, regarding what Brody's been up to in the three years since the original Shark Attack.
5:37 Bill Simmons? Since he was the man of the year in Amity.
5:39 Chris Ryan? It sounds like, doesn't he make a reference to like, four things happen a year? It's like, I make four arrests a year or something like that.
5:45 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, man, I, I have so much to say about this, but like, Brody was afraid of the water.
5:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
5:49 Sean Fennessey? And then he had the most traumatic experience you could ever have on the water. And then he's like, I think I'll stay near the water. Like, what the fuck?
5:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I'm gonna drive my Jeep right on the beach.
5:57 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, just like move to Glen Cove or something. You don't have to be in a beach jail and it's okay.
6:02 Bill Simmons? Right. Well, it's like what we talked about with Diary of the Vengeance. Also, killing the shark probably sets up some amazing side career for him, like where he could write a book and
6:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
6:11 Bill Simmons? He could go on talk shows, do Dick Cabot.
6:13 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, like a harpoon sponsorship or something.
6:15 Chris Ryan? I have to start asking hard questions about whether Brody was participating in a slush fund scheme with Mayor Larry.
6:21 Sean Fennessey? It's true.
6:21 Chris Ryan? You know, whether he was
6:22 Bill Simmons? You want to do this now?
6:23 Chris Ryan? Getting a little, wetting his beak a little bit.
6:25 Bill Simmons? You think there's some beak wetting?
6:29 Sean Fennessey? Something is fishy.
6:31 Chris Ryan? You think Ellen Brody's really bringing in the money, being like the, the town salesman for that real estate developer?
6:36 Bill Simmons? Well, there's some, I guess a deleted scene that insinuates that Brody gets, I decided not to watch the deleted scenes because two hours plus of Jaws 2 is enough. Plus, I watched the entire making of documentary, which I'm excited to talk about. But apparently, they hint at some Brody's wife with the, with the boss, like some sort of like romantic, maybe, that Brody gets bent out of shape about, and they smartly took that out of the movie. Because that would have been idiotic.
7:05 Chris Ryan? Can't disrespect Martin Brody like that.
7:06 Sean Fennessey? Well, is the implication that, you know, if Ellen is polishing Len's knob, then she's getting like a Christmas bonus? Like, what's happening? Like, what is really, what's the quid pro quo there? He's the chief of police.
7:21 Chris Ryan? It would have been better if Martin was boring the shit out of her, telling all war stories about fighting Jaws with Hooper and just being like, man, I remember that time in 74 when I killed that fucking shark. She's just like, alright, we can move on from this, you know?
7:34 Sean Fennessey? Why does Ellen even need a job as a glorified secretary for Len? You know, like, I, this doesn't-
7:39 Chris Ryan? She's a career woman. It's the late 70s. Women are in the workplace. What the fuck is wrong with you? Were they in the workplace?
7:47 Sean Fennessey? Doesn't really seem like it. Yeah, this guy's like wandering around the beach in a four-piece suit.
7:52 Chris Ryan? They're not doing any parenting, so they have plenty of time to dedicate to their professions.
7:55 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean, the bigger question, Martin Brody, good hang?
7:59 Chris Ryan? My kind of hang. My kind of hang.
8:01 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, three cigarettes before breakfast.
8:02 Bill Simmons? Shows home and it's like, you're not sure how drunk he is when dad gets home?
8:06 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
8:06 Bill Simmons? He's dad really drunk or kind of drunk? Oh, the car's sideways in the garage.
8:11 Sean Fennessey? Shider is just the shade of an heirloom tomato the whole movie. It's incredible.
8:15 Bill Simmons? Well, there's great research about how he kind of didn't want to be in the movie.
8:18 Chris Ryan? Kind of.
8:19 Bill Simmons? Which we'll get to. But apparently, he was surly for like the first half of the filming, basically, which I thought was hilarious.
8:26 Sean Fennessey? Fits the character very well.
8:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah, you can kind of feel it in some of the scenes where he's just like, put the cue card right there so I can fucking see it. Let's get this done.
8:36 Chris Ryan? He's still Roy Scheider though. I mean, honestly, it's like, whether he's reading up cue cards, whether or not he hated being there, like, there's a couple of scenes in there where he was like, this guy's the fucking best.
8:44 Bill Simmons? Well, we do this every time we do Scheider, but we gotta go through his seventies. Clute, French Connection, Jaws, Marathon Man, Sorcerer, Jaws 2, all that jazz, just ripping them off.
8:54 Sean Fennessey? Sneaky Scheider month here on the show.
8:55 Chris Ryan? It is a sneaky Scheider. We could do all that jazz next.
8:58 Bill Simmons? It's the summer of Scheider.
9:00 Chris Ryan? Roy Scheider July.
9:03 Sean Fennessey? Sounds good.
9:04 Chris Ryan? Well, we've already done the good Scheider.
9:05 Sean Fennessey? When are we doing Blue Thunder?
9:07 Bill Simmons? Well, we have Sorcerer's still lingering.
9:09 Chris Ryan? Sorcerer and all that jazz.
9:10 Bill Simmons? Just came out on Blu-ray.
9:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it did.
9:12 Bill Simmons? Did you get that one?
9:13 Sean Fennessey? I certainly did.
9:14 Bill Simmons? How was it?
9:14 Sean Fennessey? Uh, it's really good. I'm featured on it. I don't know if you know that.
9:18 Bill Simmons? What do you mean?
9:18 Sean Fennessey? I interviewed James Gray on that Blu-ray, talking about Sorcerer.
9:23 Chris Ryan? Really?
9:23 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
9:24 Chris Ryan? Wow.
9:27 Chris Ryan? Congratulations.
9:28 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, so it was very cool. It was very fun to do.
9:31 Bill Simmons? Gotta get it now.
9:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
9:32 Bill Simmons? I saw the Criterion Collection was on sale for 50% off.
9:35 Chris Ryan? It's a great time for sales right now out there.
9:38 Sean Fennessey? It really is. I mean, all that jazz is also in the Criterion Collection.
9:41 Chris Ryan? I got it. I copied it already.
9:42 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
9:43 Bill Simmons? Scheider loves that one. Who was supposed to be in all that jazz? Oh, Dreyfus.
9:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
9:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah, well, Dreyfus is in this.
9:48 Chris Ryan? There's a lot of swapping of great big movies and great big parts. I can't wait to talk about that.
9:53 Bill Simmons? Well, sequels, let's dive into this, because Damien Omen 2. Good movie.
10:00 Chris Ryan? Just got stretched by the Bucks.
10:01 Sean Fennessey? You always say it like there's not a colon in the title.
10:04 Bill Simmons? Damien Omen 2.
10:07 Sean Fennessey? That's it.
10:07 Bill Simmons? I call Damien Omen 2.
10:09 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
10:10 Bill Simmons? Well, he is. Damien, was his last name Omen, or was he a different last name?
10:14 Chris Ryan? Oh, it's not Omen.
10:15 Sean Fennessey? Uh, no, it's Omen. It's Omen.
10:18 Bill Simmons? His father, Bob Omen.
10:22 Bill Simmons? Damien Omen 2.
10:23 Chris Ryan? Bob Omen the first.
10:25 Bill Simmons? Jaws 2, both June 1978. So why is this important? Well, we're starting a sequel boom.
10:34 Bill Simmons? They didn't really do sequels. They did Bond sequels. They did those weird airport movies that they put the year of the whatever.
10:42 Sean Fennessey? Seventy-seven, yeah.
10:44 Bill Simmons? Clint Eastwood's westerns were sort of sequels. Go back to the twenties, thirties, forties, they loved doing sequels. Then it kind of died off. 1977.
10:53 Chris Ryan? I see, I see you just threw a little chum in the water for Rosillo talking 40s.
10:57 Bill Simmons? Right, well, we now we know.
10:59 Chris Ryan? Get Rosillo on a, on a thin man pod.
11:01 Sean Fennessey? I'm, I'm des- I, I, he said he wanted to be the three of us, but I need you and Ryan looking each other in the eye doing Casablanca for two hours. I need it. I need it more than I need anything in the world.
11:11 Bill Simmons? All right, we'll do it.
11:11 Chris Ryan? Seriously, I would retire from the Realogical if you guys did that. It would be like, we've completed the mission.
11:18 Bill Simmons? Seventy seven has Exorcist Two, Bad News Bears, and Breaking Training. A phenomenal movie. And Airport Seventy Seven. Seventy Eight has Jaws Two, Omen Two, Bad News Bears Three, Go to Japan. We don't acknowledge that movie.
11:29 Sean Fennessey? Also Revenge of the Big Panther. One of the biggest movies of the year.
11:33 Bill Simmons? But there was a bunch of Big Panthers.
11:34 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, they had sequels.
11:36 Bill Simmons? Seventy Nine has Rocky Two, which becomes as, as big of a phenomenon as Jaws Two. And we also get Airport Seventy Nine, Butch and Sundance Prequel, and more American graffiti. And then Eighty has Empire Strikes Back: Smoking the Bandit Two.
11:53 Bill Simmons? So there, these are top 10 movies that are sequels. And then you can just see how it changes. Where Superman Two, Halloween Two, Fred Thirteen Two. In 1982, here are all the sequels. Rocky Three, Star Trek Two, Fred Thirteen Three, Airplane Two, Halloween Three, Death Wish Two, Grease Two, Amityville Two, and Penitentiary Two. If you just go by the year, there's just normal movie titles. Like, you look at like 1975, and it's just movie titles. And then you get to like the 80s.
12:19 Chris Ryan? It's two, two, two.
12:19 Bill Simmons? You see two sequels, whatever, and it just changes.
12:22 Chris Ryan? Do you find it comforting or alarming that for your entire life, like, that's been the case? Like, in, because in some ways, it should give us a little bit of peace when it's like, oh, there's nothing original anymore, but.
12:31 Sean Fennessey? I, I don't think there's anything that is inherently bad about a sequel. I think, you know, The Empire Strikes Back is remarkable. Like, it's one of the best movies ever. Godfather Two is one of the best movies ever. I do think that there's a consistency in the ones that you talked about from seventy seven through eighty where. Number the number twos are basically the same as the first film, but worse.
12:54 Bill Simmons? And money grabs.
12:55 Sean Fennessey? And they're they're only made for money.
12:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
12:57 Sean Fennessey? Like the the structure of the movie is usually the same. The director is usually a little less good than the director of the original.
13:04 Bill Simmons? There's usually at least one star missing.
13:06 Sean Fennessey? Somebody doesn't show up. The the lead is usually a little bit more like begrudging about having to do the movie. They don't feel as happy about it.
13:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:12 Sean Fennessey? So you just it's just not.
13:14 Chris Ryan? There's a lot more hand wringing in the stories about the the making of these movies. There's a lot more hand wringing about like, we were waiting for a script that honored the first one. Or they could live up to the first one. We don't have that problem anymore.
13:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:26 Chris Ryan? Like, we're like, we just need to get these going, you know?
13:27 Bill Simmons? Halfway through the movie, they're like, yeah, just have him shoot the blue fish and let's get to the next scene.
13:31 Chris Ryan? Ana Darmis is the ballerina and she is John Wick. Like, let's not worry about this too much.
13:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:36 Chris Ryan? But it was it was fascinating to see that the Jaws producers basically did this because they were like, we don't. Well, this is gonna happen anyway. So better to be involved and try and make it, you know, on the level of the first one.
13:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah, somebody's doing a shark movie if we don't.
13:53 Sean Fennessey? That's what David Brown said. Do you believe that? Or do you believe that that was a way to mask?
13:56 Chris Ryan? I believe Universal would make another Jaws movie, don't you? I mean, it's like a groundbreaking box office success in that way.
14:02 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's possible.
14:03 Bill Simmons? I just think we've talked about this a bunch of times this year, especially the Star Wars pod. I just think this is right around movies change. And they they look at a movie like Jaws or Star Wars and they're just like, just let's run that back. Let's do that again. I saw Jaws two in the theater. It was another one at the Cleveland Circle Theater.
14:20 Chris Ryan? There you go.
14:21 Bill Simmons? My dad took me. I was the exact same age, I think, as little Sean. And super scared the last hour of the movie, like really genuinely scared the hell. I vividly remember the helicopter thing being like, that was like one of the craziest things I've seen in a movie theater.
14:38 Sean Fennessey? It's still really effective.
14:40 Bill Simmons? It's really great.
14:40 Sean Fennessey? There's still a few things in this that are really good.
14:42 Bill Simmons? And then fucking Marge. Just getting swallowed up by by Jaws Jr.
14:48 Sean Fennessey? Best kill in the movie.
14:49 Chris Ryan? Well, I have, I have a, I may have a contender for that. Yeah.
14:52 Bill Simmons? Also, a holy shit.
14:55 Sean Fennessey? I've never seen that shot from behind.
14:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah. And it's a great invention because you don't have to show her getting quitted. You know, she just disappears.
15:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah, well, they, it seemed like they were really worried about the R. So they didn't, they had a couple of crunching down things that they ended up cutting out. But um, this was a moment when this came out and this movie did really, really well. And I think it's one of the reasons we started getting more sequels. This movie fucking killed it, the box office. And it didn't matter if it wasn't as good.
15:20 Sean Fennessey? And it kind of got killed critically, right? Like it was not well reviewed at all.
15:24 Bill Simmons? It was not.
15:24 Sean Fennessey? It didn't matter at all.
15:25 Chris Ryan? But also then became a absolute staple of early HBO. I remember this being on a ton when I was a kid.
15:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
15:33 Chris Ryan? Um, all the Jaws sequels were, but it's been in a weird way. Like I wonder sometimes if I've seen Jaws two more than Jaws, just cumulatively, you know? Cause every time I watch Jaws, I make a big like thing out of it.
15:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
15:45 Chris Ryan? And with this, it's like, oh yeah, they're, oh, the water skiing. Like I'll sit down for this, you know?
15:50 Bill Simmons? It's, yeah, from a, from, we always talk about why we created the pod. This is a classic, oh, they're going sailing.
15:57 Chris Ryan? Mm hmm.
15:59 Bill Simmons? Eddie's about to get it.
16:03 Bill Simmons? Eddie's about to die. I'm gonna stick around for another 40 here. Poor Eddie. All you want to do is play the guitar on the beach and get laid.
16:09 Chris Ryan? Come on, Tina, just don't make it so tough on a guy, you know?
16:12 Sean Fennessey? I get the impression that he kind of put a lot of numbers up with Tina in the first place. Like he actually, maybe he lived a good life.
16:17 Chris Ryan? Oh, I feel like Tina was undiagnosed ADHD and kept being like, is that a parasailor? I gotta get out of here, you know?
16:25 Bill Simmons? What was she saying about she needed a blanket because her mom noticed the black and blue bruises?
16:29 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah. Cause they kept.
16:30 Sean Fennessey? They were knocking it out on the boat.
16:32 Chris Ryan? No, I get it. Also, American cars in the seventies, a lot of sharp edges, you know?
16:36 Bill Simmons? What, were her parents inspect her when she got home?
16:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, time for your ass inspection, Tina.
16:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
16:42 Sean Fennessey? You've been out with Eddie all night.
16:43 Bill Simmons? What's that bruise?
16:44 Chris Ryan? Tina, I was balling Eddie in the back of the speech wagon.
16:48 Bill Simmons? Also fucking on a boat and that boat that size, not easy.
16:51 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, yeah.
16:52 Chris Ryan? Wish we had gotten to see it.
16:53 Bill Simmons? Eddie's gonna be a very tender lover. Well, he was a guitar player.
17:00 Sean Fennessey? What do you think their favorite position was?
17:01 Bill Simmons? I'd first probably very careful. Careful, careful lover. That Eddie. Well, by the time we got to 1983, here were the sequels. Return of the Jedi, Superman 3, awful. Jaws 3, horrible. Psycho 2, horrific. Porky's 2, a disgrace. The Sting 2 never happened, and Smokey and the Bandit 3. We literally went 0 for 7.
17:22 Chris Ryan? Do you like Smokey 3? You didn't put a little review on the end of it?
17:25 Bill Simmons? Not positive Burt Reynolds is in it.
17:27 Sean Fennessey? I kinda like Psycho 2. I'm just gonna put that out there.
17:30 Chris Ryan? Really?
17:31 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I think, and I think there is a cult to that movie now.
17:34 Chris Ryan? What?
17:34 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's like a late-stage Anthony Perkins appreciation. Interesting, I forget the director's name, Australian guy who made Patrick and Road Games, couple like gnarly. I think it's like some good kills in it. I like Psycho 2.
17:47 Bill Simmons? Porky's 2, saw that in the theater, has some of the worst sports scene footage in the history of cinema.
17:54 Chris Ryan? I don't even know if I've seen.
17:54 Bill Simmons? Basketball. And Meat, the, the, he's like a power forward.
17:58 Sean Fennessey? I'll bet.
17:59 Bill Simmons? Remember Meat? Meat's 35 in real life at this point, playing power forward in the high school team. And does not know how to play basketball. And if there's video of it, we could easily cut this into a social clip. Like he is, I had never probably touched any sort of sports object before this movie. And he's just running around like, ah! Even the fat kid in Teen Wolf was better. Chubby. Chubby at least looked like he had a little bit of an Oliver Miller type of game.
18:27 Chris Ryan? There was Teen Wolf 2, wasn't there?
18:29 Bill Simmons? Oh, there was, yeah.
18:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, T O O.
18:31 Chris Ryan? Oh, right. Did, so I wanted to ask.
18:33 Bill Simmons? Before he became Jason Batman.
18:36 Chris Ryan? That's right.
18:36 Bill Simmons? Or whatever that is.
18:37 Chris Ryan? In the, uh, in the Ryan household, I will say, weirdly, maybe uniquely, Jaws: The Revenge is, is our favorite.
18:46 Bill Simmons? Is that the fourth one?
18:46 Chris Ryan? Sequel, yeah.
18:47 Sean Fennessey? That's Michael Caine.
18:48 Chris Ryan? Yes, and Mario Van Peebles.
18:49 Sean Fennessey? Yes, it is.
18:52 Sean Fennessey? That's a Jamaican one.
18:53 Bill Simmons? I don't know if I've played that one more than once. What happens?
18:57 Chris Ryan? Sean gets, he's like a harbor master and he gets killed by a shark outside of Amity.
19:02 Sean Fennessey? It is the revenge.
19:03 Bill Simmons? Sean Brody?
19:03 Sean Fennessey? It is the revenge on Martin Brody.
19:05 Chris Ryan? Yes.
19:05 Sean Fennessey? That is why.
19:06 Chris Ryan? Brody's passed away from a heart attack. Surprise, surprise.
19:09 Bill Simmons? Four packs of damn cigarettes. Finally got him.
19:12 Chris Ryan? And then Sean is like, you know, following in his father's footsteps, gets his arm bitten off and dragged out to the water. Ellen freaks out. Michael comes from his job in the Bahamas and is like, Ellen, you gotta come down to the Bahamas with me. Well, it'll, you know, you gotta soothe your soul. She meets, uh, I can't remember what Michael Caine's character's name. It's like Woge or something like that.
19:34 Sean Fennessey? Hoagie Newcombe.
19:35 Chris Ryan? Hoagie Newcombe, played by Michael Caine. And then I think Mario Van Peebles is like a dive master there. And then.
19:40 Bill Simmons? Say no more. I'll dial it up on Tubi tonight.
19:43 Chris Ryan? They do battle with the shark. It's pretty awesome.
19:45 Sean Fennessey? Three is the water park.
19:46 Chris Ryan? Yes.
19:47 Bill Simmons? That was 3D though.
19:48 Chris Ryan? It's Gos and Quaid.
19:49 Bill Simmons? Weird 3D era.
19:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
19:50 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
19:51 Bill Simmons? It's bad.
19:51 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Really bad.
19:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah. All those 3D movies, they didn't really know they were soon.
19:55 Sean Fennessey? That was a sterling defense of Jaws, the Revenge, but it's very bad, as I recall.
19:58 Bill Simmons? I've seen all, I've only seen those one each. Well, Lorraine Gary's in all four, right?
20:03 Sean Fennessey? She is.
20:04 Bill Simmons? Yes. Which is hilarious because she was married to, um, it's a head of Universal.
20:08 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
20:09 Bill Simmons? And if you look at her IMDB, I think we did this when we did Jaws, but, um, she's basically a TV actress and a couple of things. And then ends up in Spielberg's Jaws as like the wife of the hero.
20:20 Chris Ryan? That being said, I, I kinda like her. She's fine.
20:22 Sean Fennessey? I said this on the Jaws pod. I think she's really good in Jaws, the first Jaws. I'm a little confused about her career path in Jaws two. And then by Jaws four, she's like one of the heroes.
20:31 Chris Ryan? A traumatized woman. Yeah. She is the hero of Jaws four.
20:33 Sean Fennessey? Hero.
20:34 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
20:34 Sean Fennessey? Uh, so it's a little questionable.
20:35 Bill Simmons? So you don't think the Lakers should have drafted her in the second round?
20:40 Chris Ryan? Can she, can she finish lobs? We don't know.
20:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah. So she's the only thread for the four.
20:47 Sean Fennessey? Mm hmm.
20:48 Bill Simmons? Well, they decided to do the sequel late in 75. Spielberg said no. Thanks anyway.
20:55 Bill Simmons? There was some writer they brought in and wanted to do a prequel about Quint's story about the USS Indianapolis.
20:59 Chris Ryan? This is, you gotta slow down here.
21:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I wanted to just clear the floor.
21:03 Chris Ryan? The original, like, sort of creative team of Jaws, when they were like, we gotta do a sequel. And I think even there's some reporting that Spielberg was like, that's actually a cool idea. Or maybe that was his idea, but Carl Gottlieb was writing it or something, was the Quint prequel. The USS Indianapolis prequel that he tells the story of in Jaws.
21:21 Bill Simmons? I'm in.
21:22 Chris Ryan? And I'm fucking in. And I think we may have talked about this on the Jaws pod, but like, if Jaws had just been an anthology series about shark, shark attacks in different parts of the world, or in some connective tissue with the characters, it would have been like the greatest franchise ever. And I bet Spielberg would have been interested enough to come back if it wasn't like Martin Brody does Battle of the Shark again.
21:45 Bill Simmons? Well, they've ripped this, I mean, Open Water, remember that one?
21:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah, of course.
21:50 Bill Simmons? The Blake Lively movie.
21:52 Chris Ryan? Shallows.
21:53 Bill Simmons? They just, they make deep blue sea, like, they just keep making shark, they've been making them for 50 years.
21:57 Sean Fennessey? But there was also a wave in the immediate aftermath of this movie of sea creature related movies. Like, you also had Orca immediately after this, you had Crocodile, you had Alligator, you had, um, or Eden Alive is the Crocodile movie, and then you had Alligator, you had Piranha, the Joe Dante movie. Like, they, there was a wave of, literally a wave of movies like this.
22:18 Bill Simmons? I don't mind the Piranha movie.
22:19 Sean Fennessey? Piranha's pretty cool.
22:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
22:20 Bill Simmons? Tough way to go.
22:21 Chris Ryan? I, is it true that, is it disinfo about Piranhas? Are they actually not that dangerous?
22:26 Sean Fennessey? Shark or Piranha, sheesh.
22:27 Bill Simmons? No, I think if there's a lot of Piranha, you just, your body disappears.
22:30 Chris Ryan? You just get shredded?
22:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's like a water cremation.
22:33 Chris Ryan? I think I'll go, um. I feel like you got a better chance against a shark, weirdly. Ah, I mean, I feel like I've watched more shark movies than Piranha movies, so I have some ideas about how to combat shark attacks.
22:45 Sean Fennessey? What movie did I just watch where somebody punches a shark and it works? This just happened in a movie.
22:49 Chris Ryan? Dangerous Animals.
22:50 Sean Fennessey? That's what it was.
22:50 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
22:51 Sean Fennessey? Yes. You know about Dangerous Animals is out right now, Jai Courtney.
22:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
22:55 Sean Fennessey? He plays a crazed Australian boat captain who takes people out to see the sharks.
23:01 Chris Ryan? But then he like- He takes women out.
23:02 Sean Fennessey? Abducts them and makes them shark bait for his amusement.
23:06 Chris Ryan? And he videotapes them while they're hanging off-
23:08 Bill Simmons? This is a movie that's in the theater?
23:09 Sean Fennessey? It's out right now.
23:10 Chris Ryan? It's on like, yeah.
23:10 Sean Fennessey? It's gonna be on Shudder this summer.
23:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
23:12 Bill Simmons? Oh.
23:13 Chris Ryan? It's pretty dark. Even as shark movies go, it's like, holy shit, like this guy's just torturing women for two hours, but-
23:19 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. It's like Saw but just for sharks.
23:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it's Saw but sharks.
23:22 Bill Simmons? Well, but that-
23:23 Chris Ryan? Great description.
23:24 Bill Simmons? Saw, but that's the, that was what you laid out that motto. That's what Jaws could have been. There was just like a new Jaws every year.
23:30 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
23:31 Bill Simmons? They didn't know how to franchise stuff back then. They had to actually like really put thought and money into it.
23:35 Sean Fennessey? I think that that would have been cool, but like, let's not forget that the first movie is directed by Steven Spielberg. Like, that's the reason Jaws is amazing. And you really feel it watching Jaws 2, which is a very fun summer blockbuster movie, but it is no Jaws. It's not even close to the propulsive feeling that you get watching Jaws where you're kind of, like, when you're watching Jaws, you're like this. Leaning closer and closer to see what happens. In this movie, I'm just like, I'm waiting for the kill. That's the thing. And I don't even really think about the kills as much when I think of Jaws. In this movie-
24:01 Chris Ryan? It's, it's all kills.
24:03 Sean Fennessey? It's a machine.
24:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:04 Bill Simmons? Very similar to Halloween 2, a movie that I support.
24:07 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
24:08 Sean Fennessey? Same thing.
24:08 Bill Simmons? It's Myers, just like, let's get his stats up. Like, his PR in Halloween 2 is just way better. It only has like four kills in Halloween 1.
24:15 Sean Fennessey? He's Jordan Clarkson.
24:16 Bill Simmons? Halloween 2, he's, he's taken down like an entire hospital. Anyway, they found a director. They start doing a script that's in the future. John D. Hancock.
24:29 Sean Fennessey? Interesting director.
24:30 Chris Ryan? Theater director, TV director, right?
24:31 Bill Simmons? They banged the drum slowly.
24:33 Sean Fennessey? Yes. Before that, he did a really good horror movie called Let's Scare Jessica to Death, which features great stuff on the water.
24:40 Bill Simmons? Are you on that 4K Blu-ray or no?
24:42 Sean Fennessey? I'm not on that one. But that, there was a really good addition to that.
24:45 Chris Ryan? He's saving it all for the Dangerous Animal 4K.
24:47 Sean Fennessey? Vinegar Syndrome put out a really good version of that.
24:51 Sean Fennessey? I, I, this is a little bit of a what if for me. Is if, if they hadn't fired John D Hancock off the movie. Cause he's a better director than Jena Swark.
25:01 Chris Ryan? The, the word.
25:02 Bill Simmons? He was a TV director.
25:03 Chris Ryan? And the reporting or the, the, the stuff about the making the movie is that his version of Jaws two was like a more of like a darker drama. So I wonder if that's more of the first half of the film.
25:16 Bill Simmons? There was that plus, um, didn't the, he, he was kind of trying to cut back the wife's parts and the Universal guy. That was the story he told.
25:25 Sean Fennessey? And he blamed this on Shark not working, which is obviously the same line that Spielberg had. He was like, he basically got fired because he couldn't get the action sequences to play. They, they weren't cutting together. And David Brown was like, this guy is, we made the wrong choice.
25:39 Bill Simmons? Production stops, stops long enough that Spielberg thinks about it.
25:44 Chris Ryan? They also thought about.
25:45 Bill Simmons? And he writes the screenplay for the Quinn speech.
25:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
25:48 Bill Simmons? Just for fun, cause he was a fucking freak.
25:50 Chris Ryan? And then.
25:50 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna write this whole movie script.
25:51 Chris Ryan? Maybe gonna be, it was gonna maybe be directed by Joe Alves, who did 3D, right? And Verna Fields, who edited one and became like a executive at Universal, but the DJ wouldn't let him do, do it.
26:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
26:04 Chris Ryan? You can't replace.
26:05 Bill Simmons? I didn't know about that. There was some rule that from Outlaw of Josie Wales, they fired the director and then had the crew direct the rest of the movie.
26:12 Chris Ryan? It's kind of like Laban on Tombstone, right?
26:13 Bill Simmons? And the DJ was like, we're not doing that anymore. But then.
26:15 Chris Ryan? The DJ was like.
26:16 Bill Simmons? Ten rewatchables where that's happened.
26:18 Chris Ryan? Yeah. The DJ had the second apron.
26:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
26:23 Bill Simmons? It's a trade porzingis.
26:25 Sean Fennessey? I don't know if that's a tall tale from Joe Alves or not.
26:27 Chris Ryan? I like it.
26:28 Sean Fennessey? He says that, but it's a good story.
26:29 Bill Simmons? So they end up with Jena Swark.
26:31 Chris Ryan? I was, uh, I had so many different variations on how you were gonna pronounce this, that I didn't even bother to look up the real one, cause I was so excited.
26:39 Bill Simmons? It's one of the weirdest names I've seen in the IMDB. There's, his last name is spelled S C W A R C. I don't.
26:47 Chris Ryan? It's called Gene. Keep it moving.
26:49 Sean Fennessey? But it's borderline shark. It's pretty close. I just love to get three consonants in a row in the last name, you know, just right to start. Swark.
26:59 Bill Simmons? We got it here.
27:00 Speaker 03 I got three consonants in a row, my last name.
27:02 Sean Fennessey? You do.
27:03 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. H O R L B.
27:05 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah. Congrats.
27:07 Speaker 03 Thanks.
27:08 Bill Simmons? Jena Swark.
27:11 Sean Fennessey? Je ne.
27:13 Bill Simmons? Je ne.
27:13 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
27:15 Bill Simmons? 10 years later, he's doing episode eight of Hill Street Blues, season four.
27:21 Chris Ryan? Not bad.
27:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Yeah, he seems like a very affable man in the interview.
27:25 Bill Simmons? You know, didn't like him, Roy Scheider. Clashed at the set.
27:28 Sean Fennessey? Didn't like him at all.
27:31 Bill Simmons? We did have one, one star come back. The goat, John Williams.
27:35 Chris Ryan? Yes.
27:36 Bill Simmons? They're like, hey, John. Can you kick in a little teenage kids?
27:41 Chris Ryan? Little shag?
27:42 Bill Simmons? Having fun, like so fun, happy.
27:44 Chris Ryan? Come on, man.
27:45 Bill Simmons? We might have an origin of the lighthouse music. J Dubs is like, I got that.
27:50 Chris Ryan? J Dubs has got one hand on the Close Encounters theme and another one is just remixing Jaws.
27:55 Bill Simmons? Rock into it.
27:56 Sean Fennessey? That's the thing is like in, in 1978, he also scored The Fury, the Brian De Palma movie and Superman, the movie, which is one of the most iconic themes in movie history. And he was like, yeah, I got time for Jaws two.
28:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
28:08 Sean Fennessey? These guys.
28:09 Bill Simmons? And he's working on Empire.
28:10 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. He's got Empire, he's got 1941 coming in 79 and Empire coming in 80. He cooked.
28:16 Bill Simmons? Only, only Harold Faltermeyer is the only one who can match him.
28:21 Sean Fennessey? Bill, be serious.
28:22 Bill Simmons? When Beverly Hills Cop and Fletch.
28:24 Chris Ryan? And Top Gun.
28:25 Bill Simmons? And Beverly Hills Cop two, that little run Harold had. No John Williams.
28:30 Chris Ryan? No, no. He's no Zimmer.
28:32 Bill Simmons? But we still same thing, how did he do it? Who's the guy in Miami Vice, Jan Hamer?
28:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
28:37 Bill Simmons? That was another one. It's like Jan's just cranking it for two years.
28:42 Bill Simmons? Cranking music. Cranking music.
28:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
28:45 Sean Fennessey? The synthesizer, yeah.
28:46 Bill Simmons? Anyway, the goat John Williams is back. $20 million budget made $208 million, seventh biggest movie of 1978, the biggest non-bond sequel ever.
28:58 Bill Simmons? Roger Ebert refused to review it.
29:00 Chris Ryan? Why?
29:02 Bill Simmons? Just didn't write a review. He was movie critic for the Chicago Sun-Times.
29:05 Chris Ryan? Did he just not, he wasn't up in the bullpen?
29:07 Bill Simmons? Did the TV show and he, they skipped over and he said, it was pure trash.
29:12 Sean Fennessey? I was just gonna say, I think he used the word trash.
29:14 Bill Simmons? He said it was pure trash.
29:15 Chris Ryan? Interesting.
29:16 Bill Simmons? Not a fan.
29:17 Chris Ryan? This is quite a stand. I mean, it's not pure trash.
29:20 Sean Fennessey? But as we know.
29:21 Bill Simmons? Raj is the sequel police.
29:23 Sean Fennessey? Raj also doesn't like horror movies.
29:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
29:26 Chris Ryan? He's the Martin Brody of sequels.
29:28 Sean Fennessey? He thinks there's something degrading about the 80s slasher.
29:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:31 Sean Fennessey? He never supported them and this is an 80s slasher.
29:35 Bill Simmons? He could have reviewed it. I mean, it was, he should have reviewed all of the top ten movies of the year.
29:40 Chris Ryan? Fifteen percent hornier. You know, if Eddie had sealed the deal, if Raj would have been like, I,
29:46 Sean Fennessey? If Jackie would have whipped him out. Yeah. Then he would have, he would have been all about it. Well, we know, we know Raj, he loves the female form. I mean, he always writes, he's always writing about breasts.
29:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
29:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah. The R-rated version of this, Raj would be like, yeah, I'll review.
30:01 Sean Fennessey? You're making it seem like he had like complete veto power. Like he,
30:04 Chris Ryan? I had the trib. He was just like, get the fuck out. Yeah.
30:08 Bill Simmons? Can you imagine him storming out of a screen like, no review.
30:13 Bill Simmons? You'll get nothing.
30:15 Sean Fennessey? It's like the soup Nazi.
30:17 Chris Ryan? You should try that for Big Bang. Just forty-five minutes of silence after Jurassic World.
30:22 Sean Fennessey? Well, we're seeing Jurassic World this week. We'll see if I want to do an episode about it.
30:26 Bill Simmons? Just forty-five seconds of dead air. You're just like playing Brick Blast on your iPad.
30:33 Bill Simmons? We're gonna take a break and do the categories. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions, big and small, and sometimes you make one. You can really stand behind. I did this a few times in my life, especially in the mid two thousand teens after I left Grantland and ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I still think there's an idea for a company that could really work. And then The Ringer, and now we're ten years later, we're still here. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
31:19 Bill Simmons? Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Most rewatchable scene. All the kids getting together and getting ready to go sailing with the Happy John Williams music.
31:38 Bill Simmons? I think the title of that song is "The Kids Are Sailing, They're Happy."
31:42 Chris Ryan? Cousin Jackie arrives.
31:45 Bill Simmons? The water skier gets eaten.
31:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's where it really goes up.
31:48 Bill Simmons? When you see somebody water skiing and you hear the
31:51 Sean Fennessey? Not good. Not good. Really, so this was the first scene that Jeno Spark shot, and he did it because they needed to rewrite the whole movie.
32:01 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
32:02 Sean Fennessey? And he was like, "Just give me five days to shoot a really cool scene," and this worked.
32:06 Chris Ryan? You can also see that that came through in the edit where you're like, "Man, this chick is water skiing for a really long time."
32:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, there's a lot of time spent. I do need to explore with you the woman pouring gasoline all over herself before lighting a flare and exploding the entire
32:21 Bill Simmons? I actually pick this.
32:23 Sean Fennessey? It's one of my favorite things.
32:24 Chris Ryan? That clip is just playing in Joe Dumars' office.
32:53 Bill Simmons? She, what is, what was she? That's the only gift for any time an NBA team fucks up. She gets gasoline.
33:03 Chris Ryan? It's so hard to do. Even with a shark attacking you, it's like, how did she do that?
33:09 Sean Fennessey? What's the math on that? Like, what was she going for?
33:12 Bill Simmons? Why does she have a giant thing of gasoline in her butt?
33:14 Sean Fennessey? What was she trying to do? Like, pour gasoline on the shark? The fucking shark in the water?
33:19 Bill Simmons? Light matches, throw the matches at him.
33:21 Chris Ryan? It's actually quick thinking. She's like, "Oh, what I'll do is just like douse this thing in gasoline and shoot a flare at it." It's just like, "Hey, leave it to the professionals."
33:34 Chris Ryan? Water ski driver.
33:36 Sean Fennessey? It's like a great overhead shot of her pouring.
33:40 Chris Ryan? But for a second, I was kind of like, is she like, I'd rather immolate myself than get eaten by a shark?
33:47 Bill Simmons? Even the shark was like, what the fuck are you doing?
33:51 Bill Simmons? Finish it.
33:53 Sean Fennessey? It's like my favorite thing in the movie. I love that so much.
33:58 Bill Simmons? We gotta make that a gift. Stew bars. We can get to 13, but you have to.
34:03 Sean Fennessey? Someone in Atlanta. It's like, ah!
34:11 Bill Simmons? Oh my god. Oh, man. All right. More we watched was scenes, Brody in the shark tower freaking out and shooting at the bluefish.
34:22 Sean Fennessey? Also kind of Dumars-esque.
34:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah. There's a kid like kind of right there.
34:27 Chris Ryan? I mean, it's close.
34:28 Bill Simmons? He's pointing at the kid.
34:29 Chris Ryan? This is, this is the funny thing with like the town council meeting is the town council definitely has a point. Like Brody seems insane.
34:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Now that's, you lose your job with the shooting at the bluefish. I don't know if there's anything coming back from that. And you lose your job when you trade your unprotected 2026 pick for dare queen.
34:46 Sean Fennessey? Do you think in that scene that Brody has PTSD from?
34:49 Chris Ryan? Yes.
34:50 Sean Fennessey? The original Jaws and that's what's driving him to do it?
34:52 Chris Ryan? Cause he says, I, I won't go through that hell again. Like you're gonna have to get somebody else to fight this shark.
34:56 Bill Simmons? Great shot, Bordeaux. Brody coming down the stairs.
34:59 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
34:59 Sean Fennessey? That's a good one. That's a good one.
35:00 Bill Simmons? I like the shark tower in general. I was thinking about getting one for my backyard.
35:04 Sean Fennessey? That seems normal.
35:05 Bill Simmons? Cool. Just climb up there. Where's dad?
35:09 Sean Fennessey? What, what about, uh, how angry the mayor is when he's up there? He's like, what's he doing up there? Relax. He's a cop. He's doing something.
35:16 Bill Simmons? Shark tower. It's his job.
35:19 Bill Simmons? Brody showing them the shark picture. Yeah. This was Roy's Oscar clip. I think Roy had talked himself into the movie at that point. The check had cleared. He found out what points meant. And he was like, I know what a shark looks like because I've seen one up close. You better do something about this one because I don't intend to go through that hell again. It's good.
35:39 Chris Ryan? And they're like, nah, it doesn't look like a shark.
35:41 Bill Simmons? Fuck off, Roy.
35:42 Sean Fennessey? They're really rude to him.
35:43 Bill Simmons? Looks like an eye.
35:45 Bill Simmons? All right. This is when the movie takes off, the last 50 minutes. Eddie gets eaten. This is just a tremendous, tremendous horror scene. Bitten and dragged head first into the boat and then sucked down.
35:57 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
35:58 Bill Simmons? The whole Eddie, swim. Eddie, hurry faster, come on, swim. Hurry, hurry, Eddie.
36:14 Bill Simmons? And Eddie's like, the actor they hired, I had this in the research, like, didn't know how to swim. They didn't realize it. So they had to like quickly teach him like how to swim. So you can kind of see it. He's in the water. Yeah, he looks really uncomfortable when he first goes over. Cause he can't fucking swim. Yeah. Yeah.
36:29 Sean Fennessey? This is a.
36:30 Bill Simmons? Probably would have checked that on the Eddie character. Hey, Eddie, swimming in your history?
36:34 Sean Fennessey? This is, uh, his name's Gary Dubin.
36:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
36:37 Sean Fennessey? This is an incre- imagine if you were just a, a man named Gary Dubin and this is how your IMDb or your Wikipedia started. Uh, he was an American actor, best known for his portrayal of Punky Lazar, a friend of Danny Partridge on The Partridge Family. He also voiced Tolu in The Aristocats in 1970 and played the part of ill-fated teenager Eddie Marshand, who was eaten by the shark in Jaws 2.
36:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
36:58 Sean Fennessey? That's his legacy. That's his legacy.
37:00 Bill Simmons? That's his IMDb.
37:01 Sean Fennessey? He was on Green Acres, Land of the Giants.
37:03 Bill Simmons? Eddie!
37:04 Sean Fennessey? It's tough. The scene, the moment when he gets up to the boat and puts his hand on, on the, on the boat and it pulled, the wood breaks and pulls away. Incredible stuff.
37:13 Bill Simmons? Really great. Uh, the first big sailboat attack where Mike almost dies. Yeah, he gets knocked out. Yeah.
37:20 Sean Fennessey? When he bangs his head.
37:21 Bill Simmons? Great. And the boat's split and it's just, I love all that. Helicopter guy dies. We talked about him.
37:26 Sean Fennessey? Awesome.
37:28 Bill Simmons? Sean almost gets eaten. Not you, Sean. Sean and the little boy Sean. And, uh, Marge dies. Yeah, Marge does die.
37:35 Chris Ryan? It's tough.
37:36 Bill Simmons? Probably the most altruistic person in the movie.
37:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
37:40 Bill Simmons? Didn't see anybody else jumping in for Sean.
37:41 Sean Fennessey? No, she's an idiot. But she, what is she thinking?
37:45 Chris Ryan? You would just watch Sean get eaten.
37:48 Sean Fennessey? I probably wouldn't jump in if I saw the shark coming.
37:51 Chris Ryan? Ah.
37:52 Sean Fennessey? You would jump in?
37:53 Chris Ryan? I mean, if we're doing Blame Pie.
37:55 Bill Simmons? You gotta jump in.
37:56 Chris Ryan? It's all Brody for being like, take Mike back to the hospital, but not Sean.
38:01 Sean Fennessey? No, it's Ellen Brody that morning.
38:04 Chris Ryan? Oh, Ellen.
38:04 Sean Fennessey? When Ellen Brody is like, where's Sean? He's probably out playing somewhere. I'm like, this is a 10 year old child.
38:10 Chris Ryan? We've got.
38:10 Bill Simmons? No, no, this was the late 70s. My mom didn't know where I was for six hours a day.
38:15 Sean Fennessey? Town. You don't live any, there's already been a shark sighting. This is crazy.
38:20 Bill Simmons? Can't judge. This is why so many kids got up. This is why it was the heyday for serial killers and terrible people. Kids would just be like, yeah, I'll be back in six hours.
38:29 Sean Fennessey? Guys, there's a shark sighting in Amity.
38:33 Chris Ryan? Well, dad.
38:33 Sean Fennessey? And Ellen Brody is like, no big deal.
38:35 Chris Ryan? He wanted to go away from his dad. Sneaks him out.
38:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
38:39 Sean Fennessey? But she doesn't know where her child is.
38:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
38:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but like, it could be, he could be down like, you know, getting ice cream or something like that.
38:46 Sean Fennessey? Well, she's gonna have to explain to Marge's parents why she's fucking dead.
38:49 Bill Simmons? Blame pie that, um, they leave to ta, I have this in nitpicks. They leave to take unconscious Mike Brody back to the hospital.
38:58 Sean Fennessey? Mm-hmm.
38:59 Bill Simmons? And nobody says, hey, if you're gonna go back.
39:02 Chris Ryan? Four year old.
39:02 Bill Simmons? Why don't you take the eight year old kid who's completely terrified?
39:05 Chris Ryan? Eight year old, sorry.
39:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, however old he is.
39:06 Sean Fennessey? I think he's 10, but yeah, good note.
39:08 Bill Simmons? But maybe take him with you.
39:11 Sean Fennessey? I think that they explained that he's 10 in the movie. Do they not?
39:13 Chris Ryan? Oh, I thought you were gonna be like, they explained that he has a pituitary problem.
39:16 Bill Simmons? No, he was around my age when I saw the movie. So he's somewhere between eight and 10. But anyway, they just left him behind.
39:21 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
39:23 Bill Simmons? Meanwhile, that was his brother. He had no other siblings in the water with him.
39:26 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, poor Marge.
39:27 Bill Simmons? Very strange.
39:27 Sean Fennessey? Great kill.
39:28 Bill Simmons? All time scene. And then, uh, the electric cable ending.
39:33 Chris Ryan? Not sure about the science with that one.
39:34 Bill Simmons? Well, here's the thing.
39:38 Chris Ryan? I know, we're questioning science. It's okay. I'm just saying, yeah.
39:41 Bill Simmons? We know it now because we know it's happening. I, in the theater, seeing this for the first time, it was an awesome idea.
40:00 Bill Simmons? This cable comes up and he realizes what it is and he starts hitting it and you're like, "What the fuck is he doing? Why is he doing it?" But you realize as the shark's coming, "Oh, I see what he's gonna try to do." Just a really inspired idea.
40:11 Chris Ryan? It's a culmination of the film or a climax of the movie that's lightly based on, or it's based on two lightly made points earlier in the movie. Hendrix pulls up the power line when they're dredging after the first kill.
40:24 Sean Fennessey? Chekhov's power line.
40:26 Chris Ryan? The shark expert is like, and they're also attracted by soda. Like they are attracted by science. And, but if you're not paying attention hardcore to these random scenes, you're like, "How the fuck is this working? Like, how is he banging on a wire and the shark is coming for it?"
40:41 Bill Simmons? He's like, "They're also attracted to hot girls."
40:46 Bill Simmons? Most rewatchable. I think Eddie getting eaten is the best.
40:49 Chris Ryan? Yeah, can we just do the doomed sailing trip? Like then-
40:53 Bill Simmons? How about the last 50 minutes is the most rewatchable. But I would go Eddie.
40:56 Sean Fennessey? The woman pouring gasoline on herself is the scene I will watch for the rest of my life.
41:00 Chris Ryan? I like the chopper. And within the doomed sailing trip, I think the chopper is so fucking cool.
41:04 Bill Simmons? What do you have for what's the most 1978 thing about this movie?
41:08 Chris Ryan? Letting kids hang out in a bar.
41:10 Bill Simmons? I had that as well. 18-year-olds smoking and drinking in a bar.
41:12 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
41:13 Sean Fennessey? I also have Len talking to Martin Brody about Martin Brody's wife where he's like, "She's a hell of a woman." Sir!
41:20 Chris Ryan? We gotta bring that back.
41:23 Sean Fennessey? Phoebe is a hell of a woman, Chris.
41:25 Bill Simmons? That Carrie Simmons. I'm gonna do that over July 4th weekend. I'm just gonna start complimenting my friends' wives. See how it goes. You wanna make a soda? I have a runner-up. Donna Wilkes, who we'll talk about later, who's, you might know for the people listening from this movie, is the woman who's the kind of hot new girl in town, but then just screams for the last 10 minutes of the movie.
41:50 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
41:51 Bill Simmons? In complete peril. Her hair?
41:53 Chris Ryan? Yep.
41:54 Bill Simmons? Very late 70s specific. There was only a two-year era where anybody had that haircut.
41:59 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's like bangs.
42:01 Bill Simmons? Almost like a bowl cut bangs, but, and popped out on the side. Everybody had it. So it just makes me think of that.
42:07 Sean Fennessey? Hard to believe it didn't stick around.
42:09 Bill Simmons? Woodstage's the best.
42:12 Bill Simmons? Kids in the seventies hanging out with a guitar at the beach?
42:14 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
42:15 Bill Simmons? This was your time, CR. This could have, this is when you would have thrived.
42:18 Chris Ryan? I would have been the bony bear of, uh, of Amity.
42:22 Bill Simmons? People. All you needed, pack of cigs and guitar.
42:26 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
42:28 Chris Ryan? Mad chicks coming in.
42:29 Sean Fennessey? Holocene on a boat is something I now need to see.
42:33 Chris Ryan? Um, yeah, I, I have, I have a lot of the teenage behavior is age the best for me, including just being like, we've got beers stowed away in a garage. You know, those beers have just been cooking all summer.
42:46 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
42:47 Chris Ryan? They've got to do what they've got to do. Um, how about having a code for get me out of this situation? When, when Brody's like, we gotta look into that nine oh eight. And he's like, what's a nine oh eight? And he's like, I just wanted you to get me out of there. Yeah, we gotta do more of that, right?
43:05 Sean Fennessey? Uh, yeah, well, should it, should it be like a mid pod thing where like Bill's on a jag about some girl's haircut? And I'm like, CR, nine oh eight, nine oh eight.
43:12 Chris Ryan? Is interrupting Bill?
43:14 Bill Simmons? A nine oh eight problem. Um, the late seventies summer beach montage I had in the what's age the best where there, it's like a guy or little kid putting mustard on a hot dog and then somebody's flying a kite. And it was just like very seventies.
43:28 Sean Fennessey? Is that?
43:28 Bill Simmons? Maybe nostalgic.
43:29 Sean Fennessey? In the lead up to the killer whale, the beached whale?
43:32 Bill Simmons? No, it's the lead up to, um, when he goes, he's in the shark tower.
43:37 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
43:37 Bill Simmons? They have this montage of everyone's having fun at the beach and then it finishes as Brody in the shark tower.
43:42 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
43:43 Bill Simmons? And, uh, it's maybe nostalgic. Now you just see somebody with a fucking COVID mask on and two guys smoking pot.
43:51 Chris Ryan? What beach are you on?
43:52 Bill Simmons? I don't understand. Amity. Well, Amity's been done.
43:55 Sean Fennessey? Did something happen?
43:57 Chris Ryan? I don't know. You're building a shark tower in your yard and you think beaches look like last of us. Okay, yeah.
44:04 Sean Fennessey? It's the second straight pod that Bill's brought up people just smoking marijuana in public. He seems annoyed by this.
44:09 Chris Ryan? Do you think cocaine came up enough on After Hours?
44:14 Sean Fennessey? Well, the floor is yours.
44:15 Chris Ryan? I've heard from some concerned listeners who are like,
44:19 Bill Simmons? Not enough?
44:19 Chris Ryan? Maybe, maybe, maybe we needed a cocaine expert on the.
44:23 Sean Fennessey? Interesting. Was one available?
44:26 Bill Simmons? Expert for which part?
44:27 Chris Ryan? Just like what it feels like to be up all night on cocaine out in New York City. Not that the character is, but that Martin Scorsese certainly had been.
44:36 Sean Fennessey? I think that's a fair point. Should we just retake the whole pod, delete what we had?
44:40 Chris Ryan? No, I just.
44:41 Bill Simmons? I've never done cocaine.
44:42 Chris Ryan? Pass along some feedback.
44:43 Sean Fennessey? As you know, neither have I.
44:45 Bill Simmons? We'll, we'll make up for it when we're still in I do Castle Black.
44:49 Chris Ryan? On blow?
44:52 Bill Simmons? After doing two lines.
44:54 Chris Ryan? Mirror in the middle?
44:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
44:57 Sean Fennessey? This is what it was like to own a bar in Morocco.
45:00 Bill Simmons? Cruising car culture. One of the screenwriters, Carl Gottlieb, said he got the idea because of this sailboat thing because so many people would just drive around in cars, which we've seen in Dazed and Confused, other movies. And he was like, well, let's do this with sailboats. Like these kids every day, they just go out in the water. Pretty good idea.
45:19 Sean Fennessey? It's very American graffiti in general, the movie.
45:22 Bill Simmons? I like it.
45:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I had.
45:24 Bill Simmons? Now they'd be playing Fortnite.
45:28 Bill Simmons? It'd just be five kids in five different houses, just like, dude, power me up.
45:36 Bill Simmons? I'm losing my life.
45:37 Sean Fennessey? I feel like you've been radicalized by something.
45:39 Bill Simmons? No, I just like this era. I like when people hung out and did shit.
45:43 Sean Fennessey? That's true.
45:44 Bill Simmons? Let's bring it back.
45:44 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, let's bring it back.
45:45 Chris Ryan? My last stage of the best is just Tina screaming, shah!
45:54 Bill Simmons? I have a couple of other ones. Lighthouses?
45:56 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
45:58 Sean Fennessey? Those have aged well?
46:00 Bill Simmons? It's like seeing them in movies.
46:02 Chris Ryan? They typically do age well, though.
46:04 Bill Simmons? They'll show it early. They'll be like, we got a lighthouse in this movie. I'm like, okay, we're coming back. Sign me up. Maids that show up for work already dressed like a maid.
46:15 Chris Ryan? Is it the maid or is she the babysitter?
46:17 Bill Simmons? What is she?
46:18 Chris Ryan? I don't know. Why do they need one too? They don't do any parenting.
46:21 Bill Simmons? This was like a big thing in TV shows in the seventies when.
46:24 Chris Ryan? They have a small clapboard house in Amity.
46:26 Sean Fennessey? Why does she have this job as a secretary and then she's employing somebody to work in the house? Like just quit your job and take care of your family for Christ's sake.
46:33 Chris Ryan? Do you think it's like a Keeping Up With The Joneses kind of thing where like Len makes it seem like, oh, you don't have any help? You gotta do that to be successful.
46:40 Sean Fennessey? It's like, does it work for me?
46:43 Sean Fennessey? Terrible. Maybe it's a, maybe it's a comment on capitalism.
46:45 Chris Ryan? Sure.
46:47 Bill Simmons? The last one I had was the idea of seeing the shark early and often was smart. You got a zag from the last movie.
46:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
46:52 Bill Simmons? You're not building up any, any suspense. We know what the shark looks like.
46:55 Sean Fennessey? That was Geno's big theory.
46:57 Bill Simmons? Let's see the shark. Big Coon and Burger Award, best use of food and drink.
47:04 Bill Simmons? The punch?
47:04 Sean Fennessey? Not a ton, yeah, but the punch sucked, right?
47:06 Chris Ryan? The pizza that Mike is, and his buddies are eating at the bar when they're like, and they say to the bartender, this is the only place that the garbage man delivers. You know, I love a little.
47:17 Sean Fennessey? That looks like some rank bar pizza though.
47:19 Chris Ryan? I know.
47:19 Sean Fennessey? It looks gnarly.
47:20 Chris Ryan? I'm just saying it's the best use. I'm not saying I don't want to eat it.
47:22 Bill Simmons? Great shot order award, most cinematic shot. It's probably Eddie getting pulled down.
47:26 Chris Ryan? Oh, I like the, I like the water skiing stuff. I like a lot of the like wide shots of her going back and forth across the ocean.
47:32 Bill Simmons? Good wide shot of that scene when the, when he's picking up the poison bullets.
47:36 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah.
47:37 Bill Simmons? The sun comes over and help and they do a nice little wide shot with the water.
47:40 Sean Fennessey? Oh, you know what's a great one though, is we didn't talk about the very beginning when they're at the gala event at the, and I don't even, what building is that that they're in?
47:47 Chris Ryan? It's the new development. It's like the new conference center that they've built.
47:49 Sean Fennessey? Where the high school band is playing. There's like a long crane shot that goes all the way over the swimming pool and then down.
47:55 Bill Simmons? Classic Geno.
47:56 Chris Ryan? I bet that was Hancock in his bag and they were like, get this guy the fuck out of here.
48:00 Sean Fennessey? It feels like that. It does feel like that.
48:02 Bill Simmons? Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award, best needle drop. They don't throw a 70's song in this.
48:06 Chris Ryan? I guess just rocking John, John Williams getting happy.
48:11 Bill Simmons? J-Dub's just killing it.
48:12 Chris Ryan? There's stuff on the radio, but I couldn't even determine what it was.
48:14 Sean Fennessey? They don't sing anything?
48:15 Bill Simmons? I feel like Fall Tomorrow would have killed it too.
48:16 Chris Ryan? Fall Tomorrow would have been like, I've been working on this riff.
48:20 Bill Simmons? The Sean fantasy word for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm?
48:25 Sean Fennessey? I mean, the Muni on the Bounty speech that Douglas gives, where he gives the Captain Bligh, you know, that's a great moment. Douglas would have fucking dork.
48:33 Bill Simmons? I don't have a best character name. There's no Chess Rockwell Brocklanders award this episode.
48:38 Chris Ryan? Uh.
48:39 Sean Fennessey? I was just thinking.
48:40 Bill Simmons? I even looked through the IMDb to make sure.
48:42 Chris Ryan? Len Peterson is a really good real estate developer name.
48:45 Sean Fennessey? I like Dr. Elkins. I think it's pretty good. I also think just a gal named Marge. Who's the last Marge that was under the age of 80 that you've seen?
48:52 Chris Ryan? That's true.
48:53 Bill Simmons? Well, that's why she died.
48:57 Bill Simmons? CR flex category.
48:58 Chris Ryan? I gotta do Sean Penn brought my own pack. We do this for all the shiders, but three cigarettes with coffee before breakfast is, is really elite. Elite shit. Uh, and I'll.
49:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I read his Wikipedia and I was just waiting for the COPD paragraph.
49:13 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
49:13 Bill Simmons? I'm not sure it's in there, but he, he definitely died a little early.
49:17 Chris Ryan? Uh, and then I also, just for, for fun, I did Den of Thieves Benihana Award for the Hogs Breath Saloon, which is a real Florida place.
49:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
49:24 Chris Ryan? On an island, but they moved it to Destin.
49:27 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it looks like, it actually reminded me of the, uh, the Squire in Chatham, but it definitely looks like.
49:32 Chris Ryan? A little bit like the perfect storm bar.
49:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Good job with that. Uh, the butcher's girlfriend award, we link in the film is the first hour. It's just slow.
49:40 Chris Ryan? I, mine was.
49:41 Bill Simmons? Could be tighter.
49:42 Chris Ryan? The incredulity of the town council. I think, I think we, we have enough evidence to suggest that A, this guy knows what he's talking about. And B, this can happen here. So for as freaked out as you might be about your new hotel, like you should maybe give him some.
49:55 Bill Simmons? I had that in What's Age the Worst, but that's a good call. But we did, we talked about.
49:58 Chris Ryan? It also doesn't really matter.
50:00 Bill Simmons? When the people, the heroes of the previous movie who have no credibility with anybody. Nobody's like, maybe we should listen to him. He did, he was right the last.
50:08 Chris Ryan? He did find the Ark of the Covenant, you know?
50:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
50:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
50:11 Sean Fennessey? Good point.
50:13 Bill Simmons? Maybe he's honest. No, they don't do it.
50:16 Chris Ryan? Do you have a butcher's girlfriend?
50:19 Sean Fennessey? It's kind of tied up in, in my flex.
50:22 Bill Simmons? All right, wait. What's Age the Worst, other than Lorraine Gary being married to the head of Universal and somehow getting cast in all of these movies?
50:32 Bill Simmons? How did they decide to make this movie and have multiple kids in the group get killed? But none of them were Larry Vaughn Jr. Wouldn't that have been the natural revenge for Jaws one?
50:41 Chris Ryan? Early in the movie and that's what.
50:43 Bill Simmons? Or he gets knocked off and like, like, did we need Larry Vaughn Jr. In the last 20 minutes?
50:48 Sean Fennessey? Well.
50:48 Bill Simmons? He absolutely should have died.
50:49 Sean Fennessey? I think that he's not killed because then they don't have to show the mayor cope with that in any way. Because we know the mayor was not available for the end of this movie shoot.
50:59 Bill Simmons? Cause he left the shoot.
51:00 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
51:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
51:01 Sean Fennessey? That's because his, well, this is, this is related. His wife was, had to get a biopsy.
51:06 Bill Simmons? Murray Hamilton.
51:07 Sean Fennessey? Cancer.
51:07 Bill Simmons? Uh.
51:07 Sean Fennessey? Murray Hamilton's real life wife. And so he did like. You know, all of his days in five days.
51:13 Chris Ryan? Okay.
51:13 Sean Fennessey? And then they got him off the set, which is one of the reasons why the movie kind of ends the way that it does. It doesn't, there's no conclusive moment.
51:18 Chris Ryan? Actually to, you know, in terms of his performance, he, he's like, I'm only like a figurehead. Like the Len guy is obviously running the town and he's just like, kind of shuffling along.
51:27 Bill Simmons? Counter. The movie ends after Roche Shatter electrocutes the shark and we didn't need to see Mary Von anyway. So I think Larry should have been shoot to smithereens.
51:35 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
51:36 Chris Ryan? Okay.
51:37 Bill Simmons? Yeah, fuck that guy. Fuck that family.
51:39 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Marge has to die and he gets to live.
51:41 Chris Ryan? Can I throw in an additional Larry Vaughn, what's age the worst?
51:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
51:44 Chris Ryan? When Larry goes up to Michael and he's like, dad's got you working, huh? And it's just like, hey, fuck you, man. Remember when you sent my dad out there to get eaten? Like, I'm fucking working. I'm not working. Mind your own business.
51:56 Bill Simmons? The Brody should have hated Mary Von.
51:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, classic politician, son. Not a nice guy.
52:01 Bill Simmons? What else you have for what's age the worst, anything?
52:02 Sean Fennessey? Um, no, I don't.
52:05 Bill Simmons? We'll have a couple.
52:09 Bill Simmons? Mike Brody.
52:12 Bill Simmons? Terrible actor.
52:14 Chris Ryan? Tough.
52:15 Bill Simmons? So bad that he gets knocked unconscious and he's giving the same performance unconscious as he was during the first hour of the movie.
52:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
52:23 Bill Simmons? Um, also terrible big brother. Don't bring your little eight year old out for your big, let's all get drunk and, and sailboats. And like, maybe not the best place for your old brother.
52:33 Sean Fennessey? I do believe this was Mark Brunner's final credit as an actor.
52:36 Chris Ryan? That, uh, he is a
52:37 Bill Simmons? Really?
52:38 Chris Ryan? Former American actor.
52:39 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
52:40 Chris Ryan? I wonder what he does now.
52:41 Bill Simmons? Listen, sometimes things aren't your calling and you realize it and you move on to the next thing.
52:46 Chris Ryan? Is he the kid from the first Jaws? Is it like the same, it's not Michael from the first Jaws. Okay.
52:52 Bill Simmons? Like Donna Wilkes is, she's, she's like, are you gonna be there tomorrow? And he's like, I don't know, maybe.
52:58 Chris Ryan? Well, he's playing hard to get.
52:59 Bill Simmons? Their day. Or is he's half dead?
53:02 Sean Fennessey? He's not a very good actor. I agree with that.
53:04 Bill Simmons? There's no black people in this movie, but there was no black people in Jaws one either. But maybe this is Amity where they just, it's just all white people.
53:11 Sean Fennessey? Are you saying Jim Crow still exists in Amity?
53:13 Bill Simmons? I don't understand why there aren't any black people in this movie.
53:15 Chris Ryan? Maybe we could do Sinners, a sequel that connects to the Jaws world.
53:19 Sean Fennessey? Well, really good.
53:20 Bill Simmons? I have the Van Lathan award. Did this movie need more black people? I would go a step further. One black person, one, anybody who's not a white person. What's going on?
53:29 Chris Ryan? Why couldn't Woody have a new deputy who's black?
53:31 Bill Simmons? Are there no minorities in Amity at all?
53:33 Sean Fennessey? Maybe this is a parable about punishing the white oppressor by having them killed by sharks in this community.
53:39 Chris Ryan? But then they, they, they put Lou Goss Jr. Through Hell, the next film.
53:43 Sean Fennessey? That's true, but then Mario Van People's gets his revenge.
53:45 Chris Ryan? That's true.
53:47 Bill Simmons? In the climax, Bob rescues Lucy from the shark, but then gets bitten in half.
53:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
53:54 Bill Simmons? And it's so gruesome. They decided this will get us an R. We can't have this in the theater. So Bob survives, but I'm not sure you can see Bob.
54:01 Chris Ryan? I would say one of the things that's aged the worst is, uh, while realistic that that size of a group might be hanging out during the summer, it's not good for film when you're like, there's like 22 kids here and it's hard to keep. And I feel like six of them are named Eddie.
54:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
54:17 Chris Ryan? And it's kind of hard to keep it straight. Like who's fucking who, who's hanging out?
54:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. To me, it's always the guy.
54:23 Bill Simmons? Bob, I don't know who Bob is.
54:24 Sean Fennessey? To me, to me, it's the guy who's always not Keith Gordon. Cause Keith Gordon is.
54:29 Chris Ryan? Well, there's Napoleon Dynamite guy next to Keith Gordon. That's his buddy.
54:33 Sean Fennessey? Isn't that Bob?
54:34 Chris Ryan? No, that's not Bob. He's the one who gets, because the Napoleon Dynamite gets Brooke. He's been pining after Brooke.
54:40 Sean Fennessey? Right. Right.
54:41 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Who's the guy with the curly hair who's like, hey, Mike, going out today?
54:46 Sean Fennessey? That's, uh, that's Andy.
54:49 Bill Simmons? It's just Mike, Bob, Eddie, Andy. It's all four or five letters.
54:52 Chris Ryan? If we could just get a little bit of roster shrinkage, I think that would be great.
54:56 Sean Fennessey? I see. You want, you want to use the stretch provision on Andy?
54:59 Chris Ryan? Well, just like seven kids. I think I could keep that straight. There's like 14 of them.
55:03 Bill Simmons? The rough Lohan and Ruben and Partridge over acting word goes to Donna Wilkes, who screams like an absolute maniac for the last 10 minutes of this movie.
55:11 Chris Ryan? It's interesting.
55:13 Bill Simmons? So compelling as a screamer. It's both realistic, but also pretty annoying. And at one point, we have the classic seventies move that would never happen now where the guy is telling her to calm down. And does the airplane shake like in the movie airplane?
55:27 Sean Fennessey? He looks like.
55:27 Bill Simmons? Borderline domestic violence moment.
55:29 Sean Fennessey? Larry looks like he's gonna slap her across the face.
55:31 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's another reason why he had to be eaten.
55:33 Chris Ryan? It's true.
55:34 Bill Simmons? But she becomes the future star. I sent this to you guys. Six years later makes a movie called Angel.
55:40 Chris Ryan? Are you, are you announcing that for next week's rewatch?
55:42 Bill Simmons? A to be classic.
55:43 Sean Fennessey? It's a wonderful film.
55:44 Bill Simmons? I haven't seen it in a long time, but she's a high school student in Hollywood by day and a hooker on Hollywood Boulevard at night. And then a serial killer tries to kill her and she becomes involved in some sort of serial killer thing. And it made 17 million dollars and was a surprise hit.
56:00 Chris Ryan? Is that a big?
56:00 Bill Simmons? And they made like.
56:01 Chris Ryan? Ty West.
56:01 Bill Simmons? They made like five of them.
56:02 Sean Fennessey? It's one of the key inspirations for the Maxine, the movie that came out a couple of years ago. The horror movie that the final movie in the Ty West trilogy.
56:10 Chris Ryan? My overacting goes to Anne Duzenberry as Tina Wilcox. I feel like she really, she chooses the scenery every time she gets it. She like runs up to the camera. She's like, oh, like every time she's really selling.
56:22 Sean Fennessey? Was she Miss Amity? What was her title?
56:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah, she was Miss Amity.
56:25 Sean Fennessey? Miss Amity.
56:26 Chris Ryan? All the guys want to get on Tina. It's a lot, a lot of competition.
56:29 Sean Fennessey? Okay.
56:30 Bill Simmons? Sean, you have a flex category.
56:33 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. So the greatest acting I've ever seen in my life award goes to Murray Hamilton, who's literally doing a terrible performance and the best performance I've ever seen. Where you can watch him as the mayor of a town that has already endured a shark attack that becomes national news. He has presumably been reelected mayor.
56:57 Chris Ryan? It's been four years.
56:58 Sean Fennessey? Another shark has arrived in his town and he is compartmentalizing and just shutting it down.
57:03 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
57:03 Sean Fennessey? Nothing is happening. And the reason the performance works is because he's gotten terrible news in his real life about his wife who he believes may have cancer. And so he is just dead eyed. He can barely even talk in this movie. Murray Hamilton is barely giving a performance.
57:17 Chris Ryan? He has to like pass the baton to Len in the town council meeting.
57:20 Sean Fennessey? Exactly. But you know, knowing what we know about the backstory, it weirdly works for the character as like this politician has sold his soul, but in fact, it was just a man who could barely finish the day as an actor. And that to me is cinema.
57:36 Bill Simmons? And Scheider was like, I thought I was gonna be the only one mailing it in.
57:41 Sean Fennessey? This guy's just dead eyed. He can barely even see.
57:44 Bill Simmons? It's a good one. I had, this brings us to the CR things. Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does take a word? I'm glad you brought up Mayor Vaughn. I think Mayor Vaughn, keeping his job after Jaws one, is the biggest reach in movie sequel history.
58:00 Chris Ryan? You might be right.
58:01 Bill Simmons? So it's in the finals for me with, after Halloween two, when Michael Myers gets shot in both eyeballs and shot, I think he's been shot like a total of 13 times at that point and stabbed in the neck and blows up in the fire and burns to death when he then comes back two movies later. That would be my other choice. But Mayor Vaughn, like, I just don't think he's getting reelected. I actually don't think he should be allowed to live in Amity.
58:26 Chris Ryan? I don't even know if he should be a free man.
58:28 Bill Simmons? The Kindred family is suing the town of Amity for seven years and it's gonna be like the Gawker Hulk Hogan settlement. It's gonna be, they're gonna get like a hundred and 15 million dollars out of this.
58:39 Chris Ryan? It's gonna be renamed Kinderville.
58:40 Bill Simmons? And he's going to jail. That's how, it's not even, forget that getting reelected. He's going to prison for what he did to the little Alex Kindred.
58:48 Chris Ryan? We're just whiteboarding here. How cool would Jaws two be? And this, not two B, two. Well, how cool would it be?
58:54 Bill Simmons? It's like a Shawshank type movie?
58:55 Chris Ryan? If Brody, big fucking hero of Jaws one.
58:59 Bill Simmons? Mayor?
59:00 Chris Ryan? Rides the wave to mayor.
59:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
59:02 Chris Ryan? And now finds himself in Larry's position.
59:05 Bill Simmons? Mayor Brody.
59:06 Chris Ryan? Yeah, where he's like, fuck. I mean, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with this job. A lot of financial pressure that may be a shark, it may not be. And then he's the one resisting. We get a new Brody coming in.
59:19 Sean Fennessey? I'm zagging, I'm going the other way. In fact, in America, we love our dirty politicians and we love for them to be revived in the national consciousness. And we are living through a moment just like you right now.
59:33 Bill Simmons? I think they were just like, ah, Larry got that one wrong.
59:36 Speaker 03 He hit a rough patch and he bounced back.
59:37 Chris Ryan? Also, you never know with those island communities because it's so, so full of summer people who probably aren't voting in local elections. So if the locals are like, this one, this guy, he looks out for our best financial interest, maybe they reelect him.
59:51 Bill Simmons? What are your thoughts, Craig?
59:53 Speaker 03 Well, I feel like him falling into the same trap again, he gets reelected. And then once again, Brody's like, hey, I think there's a shark in the water. And he's like, nah, lightning can't strike twice.
1:00:05 Sean Fennessey? A little dubious. The truth is actually that there were two sharks in Jaws. There's the shark that they catch at the beginning and then another. So we know that this is shark waters.
1:00:14 Speaker 03 Even the two divers went missing, a charred body washed up on shore and he is still like, we don't know.
1:00:21 Sean Fennessey? In fairness, the charred body washing on shore is one of the craziest things that's ever happened in the history of movies. I could see him being a little bit confused by that one.
1:00:30 Bill Simmons? What's your hottest take?
1:00:31 Chris Ryan? Uh, I think if cousin Jackie never shows up in Amity, we have a much lower body count. Because all those guys are so trimstruck by her.
1:00:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:40 Chris Ryan? That they are like.
1:00:41 Bill Simmons? Trimstruck. Posh it up.
1:00:45 Speaker 03 Is that a phrase?
1:00:47 Bill Simmons? Trimstruck.
1:00:48 Chris Ryan? There's a less polite way of saying it.
1:00:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:50 Sean Fennessey? It's different four letters.
1:00:51 Chris Ryan? But lots of guys are like, we gotta fucking take Jackie sailing. You know, like, it's like, she's, she's driving all of this. And I feel like she has some culpability in this. And I honestly find her, her freaking out and her trauma to be a little, you know, unearned.
1:01:06 Bill Simmons? I also think Tina, there has, I think it's a much more interesting for just with the kids the whole time.
1:01:10 Chris Ryan? Yes, yeah.
1:01:11 Bill Simmons? I think Tina immediately hates, uh, the new girl.
1:01:15 Sean Fennessey? Jackie, yeah.
1:01:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that's.
1:01:16 Sean Fennessey? If they're feuding.
1:01:17 Chris Ryan? Tina and Jackie hate each other. Brooke, like, you know, there's like a whole summer I turn pretty thing going on with Brooke. You know, like, there's just a lot going on.
1:01:24 Bill Simmons? Good, uh, could have been a good season one of a terrible Amazon show.
1:01:28 Speaker 03 Did people used to have sex on sailboats? That just never, that didn't make sense to me. Um, cause if it doesn't go well, then you're stuck at sea.
1:01:36 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, not a big sailboat guy myself, so I can't say.
1:01:39 Bill Simmons? It seems a little risky with the water and the way things kind of move up and down.
1:01:43 Speaker 03 And again, if she turns you down, then you're just a thousand feet deep into the ocean.
1:01:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you get into the.
1:01:47 Bill Simmons? True.
1:01:48 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, that's not ideal. How was, how's the first season of Trimstruck going for you? You been working on it?
1:01:53 Chris Ryan? Rerites.
1:01:54 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:01:54 Chris Ryan? There is like a very funny, it's always funny.
1:01:57 Bill Simmons? Some peacock.
1:01:57 Chris Ryan? About like taking women out on the water for implication, the implication.
1:02:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah. It's a Shudder original.
1:02:04 Chris Ryan? Did you ever had a steak?
1:02:06 Sean Fennessey? I do. We've been talking a lot about 1977 and what a critical year that was. We've already done an episode on Jaws. And on the Jaws episode, on the Star Wars episode, we said that those were the movies that kind of killed the new Hollywood. Uh, but this is actually the movie that killed the new Hollywood.
1:02:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:02:23 Sean Fennessey? This is the one that, this movie being-
1:02:25 Chris Ryan? It's like, oh, these movies don't even have to be good.
1:02:27 Sean Fennessey? Okay, and making 78 million dollars in 1978 is when it's over. That's because Jaws and Star Wars are special. This movie is fun, but it's not special. And that is why we are where we are.
1:02:39 Bill Simmons? That's how we got to 1983 was Superman 3 and all those other ones.
1:02:44 Speaker 03 But did the people in 1978 feel that way? Cause when Empire Strikes Back came out, they were probably excited. When Jaws 2 came out, was everybody pissed?
1:02:51 Bill Simmons? No, I'll tell you firsthand, wanted to go first day, was more excited for Rocky 2. They could have kept serving them out.
1:02:57 Speaker 03 Yep. But after the movie came out and the reviews were middling, was everybody like, this was a mistake, we need to stop? Or was it like, ah?
1:03:03 Bill Simmons? No, America wanted it. The other thing is, you didn't really get to see these movies after they were in the movie theater unless they were on like ABC.
1:03:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:03:12 Sean Fennessey? Well, there was still something relatively novel about a sequel. I mean, they were criticized for being unoriginal, but there were not a thousand of them like there are now, like Chris was asking about.
1:03:20 Chris Ryan? Spielberg is a good example of what, how it changes. It's like, he's like, I think that making sequels is like for carnies.
1:03:26 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, and then he makes The Lost World.
1:03:27 Chris Ryan? And then he makes four sequels, you know?
1:03:30 Bill Simmons? You can't overstate how little we had going on in the late seventies. Like when baseball went on strike, it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me in 1981. It was just like, oh my, it was like this black fucking hole. Like there's nothing, there's nothing could compare to that now.
1:03:46 Sean Fennessey? Did you want to pour gasoline?
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1:05:14 Sean Fennessey? On yourself when that happens?
1:05:17 Bill Simmons? What's up? We'll take a break and do casting what ifs. All right, so there's a great casting what if for this movie.
1:05:23 Chris Ryan? This is one of my favorite casting what ifs of all time.
1:05:25 Sean Fennessey? What is it? I don't know.
1:05:26 Bill Simmons? Roy Scheider. He's gonna do Deer Hunter.
1:05:29 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yes. Okay. A reverse casting what if.
1:05:31 Chris Ryan? This is up there with Fishburne for me, though.
1:05:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah, can't agree on the, on the money for Deer Hunter.
1:05:37 Chris Ryan? He created problems with Chumito, too.
1:05:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah, and somehow he's out and ends up, the Universal's like, well, you gotta do a movie with us, you're doing Jaws 2, and he wasn't gonna be in Jaws 2.
1:05:45 Sean Fennessey? But what part is he in Deer Hunter?
1:05:46 Bill Simmons? He was gonna be De Niro.
1:05:48 Sean Fennessey? That's insane.
1:05:49 Bill Simmons? He was gonna be Michael.
1:05:49 Sean Fennessey? That would not have worked.
1:05:51 Bill Simmons? Well.
1:05:52 Sean Fennessey? I'm, I'm very happy we got what we got.
1:05:54 Bill Simmons? I, I'm happy we ended up with one of the best actors of all time.
1:05:58 Sean Fennessey? But in that part, it's just, I don't know, that doesn't feel like a Scheider part to me. It's kind of similar to Sorcerer. You know, the great casting what if of Sorcerer is he wanted McQueen? And he went with Scheider, and I think it's better that he went with Scheider, even though we've been cool with McQueen. Deer Hunter with Scheider, I don't know.
1:06:12 Bill Simmons? I think he's too old to be the Deer Hunter.
1:06:13 Chris Ryan? I, I, I probably agree with you, but there is.
1:06:17 Bill Simmons? I think he would have been good, though.
1:06:18 Chris Ryan? There's something about his career where he is like such a great second guy in a lot of movies. And then even in Jaws, like arguably as second to the shark.
1:06:25 Bill Simmons? Cause in Deer Hunter, you're playing, you're basically playing off a bunch of these great actors, but you know.
1:06:31 Sean Fennessey? I mean, you're going opposite Walken in, in, in Walken's greatest performance. That's, that's tough. I mean, the fact that De Niro can had, has, holds the weight.
1:06:39 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:06:40 Sean Fennessey? Against Walken is a big part of why the movie works.
1:06:41 Chris Ryan? I feel like Scheider goes toe to toe with Hoffman and Olivier and Marathon Man, like and Hackman. I mean, he's not like, he's not Hackman, but he's.
1:06:47 Bill Simmons? We're gonna do Deer Hunter live. It's gonna be a live show.
1:06:51 Sean Fennessey? Live Russian Roulette?
1:06:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah, an MCR play Russian Roulette in front of 1,270 people at the Wilshire.
1:06:56 Sean Fennessey? While doing Bernthal, yeah.
1:06:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:06:59 Chris Ryan? John Bernthal and I do Russian Roulette together.
1:07:01 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, live in Denang.
1:07:03 Bill Simmons? The crowd's like, the crowd's like, what's this Deer Hunter movie they're doing? Is it a comedy?
1:07:11 Bill Simmons? Anyway, um, Scheider agreed, got 500K, got points. Was miserable most of the time and it worked out great for him. And, and then he had all that jazz the next year and then his career went like that.
1:07:23 Chris Ryan? There's a bit about how he was so dedicated to the idea of getting out of this movie that he faked a nervous breakdown and trashed like the Beverly Wilshire or something like that. He like trashed his room to give it evidence of his mental state and they were like, you're doing, you're Martin Brody.
1:07:39 Bill Simmons? There were some John D Hancock hires.
1:07:44 Bill Simmons? That they got rid of once they changed directors. Ricky Schroder was supposed to be Sean Brody and then he got bounced for the other Sean Brody. And then, uh, Dreyfus, they asked him, tried to get him and he said he wouldn't return unless he got to fuck Mrs. Brody finally in the movie. And they said, you can't do that.
1:08:03 Sean Fennessey? That didn't happen.
1:08:04 Chris Ryan? That's happening in Fromm's struck though.
1:08:05 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:08:06 Bill Simmons? Well, for the people listening, for, we did the Jaws research in the book. Dreyfus's character has an affair with Mrs. Brody, remember?
1:08:15 Sean Fennessey? Right. I forgot about that.
1:08:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah. They decided not to put that in the movie, probably a good idea.
1:08:21 Sean Fennessey? So Dreyfus instead made The Big Fix, a film no one's ever seen.
1:08:26 Bill Simmons? Dreyfus made some mistakes.
1:08:28 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:08:28 Bill Simmons? Cause he turned down all that jazz.
1:08:29 Chris Ryan? I did not know about the big tricks.
1:08:30 Bill Simmons? We did this when we did the Dick Dreyfus, whatever we did.
1:08:33 Chris Ryan? We did Close Encounters.
1:08:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah, we did all the things that he didn't do and there was a few of them. Best that guy word Keith Gordon not eligible and Donna Wilkes is not eligible.
1:08:42 Chris Ryan? I got Joe Moscollo as Lynn Peterson. He was on Days of Our Lives for 34 years.
1:08:47 Sean Fennessey? I can't argue with that.
1:08:48 Bill Simmons? 34 years. So I mine was Jeffrey Kramer, who then parlayed, uh, he was the sidekick of Chief Brody. And went on to do Halloween two ironically.
1:09:01 Sean Fennessey? Graduate of Ithaca College, which is where I went to school.
1:09:04 Bill Simmons? Jeffrey Kramer?
1:09:04 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:09:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's one of the police people in Halloween two.
1:09:07 Sean Fennessey? Oh, yeah.
1:09:08 Bill Simmons? Very upset about that. They can't catch myers. Dion Waiters award?
1:09:12 Chris Ryan? I Keith Gordon is Doug Fetterman, or perhaps a first in the history of Dion Waiters. The unseen character Grace Kenny, the one who's teasing the old guy's oldest teenage boy. Through the window and they're having like the meeting at the beginning of all the people are coming to the police station or like, hey, Brody, Brody. And he's just like, she, he's teasing, she's teasing my son.
1:09:34 Bill Simmons? It's probably Keith Gordon.
1:09:35 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:09:39 Sean Fennessey? Does he dial it up?
1:09:41 Bill Simmons? No, but I'm just, he's the only kid that stands out of all those kids.
1:09:44 Chris Ryan? He gets your Captain Blath moment.
1:09:45 Sean Fennessey? He does. Yeah. I guess it is Keith Gordon.
1:09:49 Bill Simmons? Craig, you have a flex category.
1:09:51 Speaker 03 I'm gonna go with the I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for the craziest quote. This movie's pretty, pretty PG.
1:09:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:09:58 Speaker 03 And then there's that one scene when Jackie shows up on the dock and Larry Vaughn Jr. Looks at her and he's like, eh, tits like a sparrow.
1:10:06 Bill Simmons? That was crazy.
1:10:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, that was a meme.
1:10:08 Sean Fennessey? It is really mean.
1:10:09 Chris Ryan? That was the Hancock cut. Yeah, that was, that was weird.
1:10:12 Bill Simmons? Do sparrows, do sparrows have tits?
1:10:14 Chris Ryan? Never heard.
1:10:15 Sean Fennessey? I think it's meant to.
1:10:16 Chris Ryan? I think it's supposed to just mean small like a bird. Never heard that phrase, gonna holster it.
1:10:21 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. And Jackie was like, one day I'll be angel and I'll be on the streets of Los Angeles.
1:10:26 Chris Ryan? When you say holster, you're gonna break it out on Ringer Fantasy. Jalen Ramsey, tits like a sparrow.
1:10:34 Bill Simmons? Half-Assed and Research, we covered a lot of this stuff. They filmed the, uh, the Hogsbreast saloon CR mentioned. It's on Oskaloosa Island. They filmed a lot of Navarre Beach. I don't even know where that is.
1:10:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:10:48 Bill Simmons? Is that like in the Keys?
1:10:48 Chris Ryan? It's in Flor- it's, I think it's on, I think it's on the Gulf side. I don't know, but it's in Florida somewhere.
1:10:55 Bill Simmons? The kid who played Sean said they were filming scenes in those with all those kind of wrecked things and an actual hammerhead started circling them at one point and they were all scared.
1:11:04 Chris Ryan? Sheesh.
1:11:05 Bill Simmons? And then, uh, in the birdie's front porch, they had a flower planter painted bright yellow and it was one of the barrels from the first Jaws.
1:11:11 Chris Ryan? Oh shit. That's so cool because when he comes home after getting fired, he stares at the barrel. And I was like, what's up with that?
1:11:19 Bill Simmons? Then they had that cable junction where the end of the movie is. It was a set they built and at some point something got fucked up and it just started floating away and they almost lost.
1:11:28 Sean Fennessey? I read that it's really, it was really slippery and they kept falling off.
1:11:31 Chris Ryan? Yeah, because the rocks are fiberglass.
1:11:34 Bill Simmons? And then, uh, I mean, the movies that came out after Jaws one, Orca, Piranha, Tentacles, Killer Fish, Barracuda, Tenterer, Killer Shark, Blood Beach, Piranha Two, The Last Shark, Up From The Depths, Humanities From The Deep, The Island Of The Fishmen and Devil Fish are all movies that came out.
1:11:54 Sean Fennessey? Fucking Blood Beach.
1:11:54 Bill Simmons? Evil Fish.
1:11:55 Sean Fennessey? Blood Beach.
1:11:57 Bill Simmons? They just went for it. And then there's some Jaws two, like there's a Tops Trading Card Set.
1:12:01 Chris Ryan? Is there?
1:12:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah. A Jaws two that, uh, I don't think it's going like hotcakes.
1:12:06 Sean Fennessey? Let's do an unboxing video right now.
1:12:07 Bill Simmons? Um, I don't think it's, we probably, that would be fun, actually.
1:12:11 Sean Fennessey? That'd be great.
1:12:12 Bill Simmons? You get those boxes for like 20 bucks.
1:12:13 Sean Fennessey? What's in, who, is it just like Jaws? Like who's on the cards?
1:12:17 Bill Simmons? It would be, they, they would have like the scenes from the movie like, Eddie's in danger.
1:12:21 Chris Ryan? It's Cousin Jackie. Yeah.
1:12:24 Sean Fennessey? Ellen Brody, your fave.
1:12:27 Bill Simmons? And then, um, they were gonna use the sharks from the original film, but they had, uh, rusted and rotted away in Universal Studios. They had to make new sharks.
1:12:34 Chris Ryan? It's weird that it took four years and they had like, basically they made no technological like advances in shark technology and fake shark technology.
1:12:40 Sean Fennessey? I do like.
1:12:41 Bill Simmons? It is a better shark this time.
1:12:43 Sean Fennessey? The burned shark.
1:12:44 Chris Ryan? But it sounds like it broke as much.
1:12:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:12:46 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:12:47 Bill Simmons? Apex Mountain, Shatter No. Sequels, no. Lorraine Gary. Sounds like Jaws four.
1:12:54 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's her centerpiece. That's her, that's her highlight.
1:12:57 Bill Simmons? Donna Wilkes, definitely Angel.
1:12:59 Chris Ryan? Definitely.
1:13:00 Bill Simmons? High school student by day, hooker by night. Serial killer victim by, yeah.
1:13:05 Sean Fennessey? Where would you say the word hooker sits in your all time word rankings? Top 20, top 50?
1:13:11 Bill Simmons? It's like those old, those old ABC promos. Somebody's killing hookers. And Dan Tannen's got to find out who. Coming up tonight on Vegas. After your local news.
1:13:26 Bill Simmons? To catch a killer, you've got to become a killer tonight on Charlie's Angels. You're doing Ernie Anderson, DTA's dad. That's what he would do.
1:13:35 Bill Simmons? Apex Mountain, every kid except Keith Gordon probably is their apex mountain being in this movie, I'm guessing.
1:13:43 Bill Simmons? Water skiing murders, I'm gonna say yes.
1:13:47 Bill Simmons? I'm gonna make the case for water skiing. Because this is right around Fonzie jumping the shark on Happy Days. This is like apex water skiing.
1:13:55 Chris Ryan? You ever gone waterski?
1:13:57 Bill Simmons? Uh, no.
1:13:58 Chris Ryan? Because of this movie or because you just don't want, you don't think that's-
1:14:01 Bill Simmons? Cause I wear contacts. It sounds miserable.
1:14:03 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:14:03 Sean Fennessey? Have you done it?
1:14:04 Chris Ryan? No.
1:14:05 Sean Fennessey? Have you ever done it nude?
1:14:09 Bill Simmons? Sharks, no. Murray Hamilton, definitely not.
1:14:13 Bill Simmons? Terrible making of documentaries about a movie.
1:14:16 Chris Ryan? Fun. It's a good one.
1:14:16 Sean Fennessey? I enjoyed this one.
1:14:17 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:14:19 Bill Simmons? It's one of the worst making. Why is it 40 minutes?
1:14:22 Sean Fennessey? I'll watch-
1:14:22 Bill Simmons? This is Jaws two.
1:14:23 Sean Fennessey? I'll watch every one of these forever.
1:14:24 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:14:26 Sean Fennessey? Two, two old ass producers.
1:14:28 Bill Simmons? Just like-
1:14:29 Chris Ryan? Have you ever, did you ever see the Marathon Man, one that we were talking about where it's just Robert Evans direct to camera standing with his, his foot up on a chair?
1:14:38 Sean Fennessey? I love it. I love, it's like 30 years from now, if you were just like-
1:14:41 Chris Ryan? Laurence Olivier.
1:14:42 Sean Fennessey? Dictating to someone what a genius you were in every decision you made at The Ringer. Like, that's what all this is.
1:14:48 Chris Ryan? Everybody wants a great line, oral history, you should do it, but straight to camera.
1:14:51 Sean Fennessey? No one else, just you.
1:14:53 Bill Simmons? The, the, one of the producers, it's, it's just so funny. They were asking him about John D Hancock or he was trying to explain why he left and he's like, did a great job. It just wasn't-
1:15:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:04 Bill Simmons? Really, and he like clearly just fucking shanked the guy and fired him.
1:15:07 Sean Fennessey? He torpedoed his whole career.
1:15:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah. He's like, wasn't anything John was doing?
1:15:12 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:15:12 Bill Simmons? Was it? I thought it was really terrible. Oh, this'll be good. We didn't get to do this for Jaws one. Cruise or Hanks?
1:15:21 Chris Ryan? I got this. Young Cruise is Michael.
1:15:26 Bill Simmons? Like losing it Cruise?
1:15:27 Chris Ryan? Taps, losing it Cruise. Kind of looks like him, too.
1:15:30 Sean Fennessey? I do believe that's accurate.
1:15:33 Speaker 03 But I thought this category is about the star.
1:15:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's gotta, you gotta.
1:15:36 Speaker 03 It's who's Shider.
1:15:38 Chris Ryan? No.
1:15:38 Speaker 03 Right? Is it?
1:15:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:40 Speaker 03 Who's the, who's the main character?
1:15:41 Sean Fennessey? I mean, you did an end around. I would say Hanks is Brody, but Cruise is any other character except for the mayor, including Len.
1:15:53 Bill Simmons? Can we talk this out?
1:15:54 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:15:54 Bill Simmons? Hanks would be the typical Chief Brody. I think I would rather see Cruise as Chief Brody. Especially like him in Shark Tower.
1:16:03 Chris Ryan? Cruise, too.
1:16:04 Bill Simmons? He would, we'd get drunk Cruise.
1:16:06 Sean Fennessey? What is he, what does Brody say when he's trying to draw Jaws in to the electric cable? What's his like final, where he's like, come on, you son of a bitch?
1:16:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I forget what his one is.
1:16:16 Chris Ryan? Well, because the first one is smile, you son of a bitch.
1:16:18 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but he, it's a, it's a variation on that.
1:16:20 Speaker 03 Bite down, you little bitch.
1:16:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, Cruise hitting with the paddle, hitting the electric cable.
1:16:27 Chris Ryan? We would get one really good Cruise running on the beach shot. You know, like maybe he had to get from the Shark Tower to like, you know, a hundred yards away.
1:16:35 Bill Simmons? This is the answer. I think it's Hanks for Jaws one. I think Jaws two needs Cruise. I think we need the unintentional comedy. I think there's an extra scene where he's like playing billiards and just like wiping the floor with his deputy.
1:16:48 Sean Fennessey? Cruise is legendarily bad at playing drunk, though, and that's kind of a feature of Martin Brody.
1:16:53 Bill Simmons? That would make Jaws two more fun.
1:16:54 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:16:55 Bill Simmons? It's like, oh, Chief Brody's fucked up.
1:16:56 Chris Ryan? He comes and he's like, the mayor is collectively stupid.
1:17:01 Bill Simmons? Scorsese or Spielberg? Obviously Spielberg. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?
1:17:06 Chris Ryan? I like, I mean, young Philip Seymour Hoffman could have been a teen, but.
1:17:10 Bill Simmons? So I had as one of the kids, like the Son of a Woman era of Philip Seymour Hoffman.
1:17:14 Sean Fennessey? Deputy Hendricks?
1:17:15 Bill Simmons? Maybe, like doing like his all.
1:17:18 Sean Fennessey? Hangdog.
1:17:19 Bill Simmons? Poly kind of craziness.
1:17:20 Chris Ryan? Mikey.
1:17:22 Bill Simmons? As Freddy?
1:17:23 Chris Ryan? There's some peeping going on in this movie.
1:17:24 Sean Fennessey? For sure.
1:17:26 Bill Simmons? Pick a Knits.
1:17:28 Bill Simmons? I know we talked about the water skiing boat blowing up and how ridiculous that whole thing was, but I just want to say again, how ridiculous that whole thing was.
1:17:36 Chris Ryan? I always feel like we should go, we should do like a separate, like, let's break down this scene a little bit. Yep. And it's really only like 30 seconds of her after the parrot, the skier has gotten killed, where she's just like, God, all right, well, option A is I could dive out and just run for, swim for it. The shore is there. Option B is I could just stay put and hope the shark goes away. Or C, I could cover myself in gasoline and then, then it opens up a bunch of different things you could do, you know? Maybe he doesn't like gasoline.
1:18:09 Bill Simmons? Isn't the move to just be still in the boat?
1:18:11 Sean Fennessey? Yeah. Well, the character does it later in the movie. You know, that's how Tina survives.
1:18:16 Bill Simmons? The move is to pour gasoline on herself.
1:18:19 Sean Fennessey? It's one of the best things I've ever seen in a movie.
1:18:22 Chris Ryan? Not the flare gun! It's the only flammable thing.
1:18:28 Bill Simmons? No, it's honestly like what would happen in a Naked Gun Hotshots version of this movie would be what that scene.
1:18:34 Chris Ryan? It's also great how the old woman's like, ah shit, I gotta call the cops.
1:18:37 Sean Fennessey? It's a great explosion too. The boat explosion is awesome.
1:18:41 Chris Ryan? They used to really blow shit up back then.
1:18:42 Bill Simmons? I only have one other pick and knit. So they finally save Sean, not when Marge dies, like before, and the, the friend, like Mike's friend, he's like, we got you, buddy. And he keeps kissing him on the cheek and it's just weird because that's not related?
1:18:58 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:18:59 Bill Simmons? It's like, what are you doing?
1:19:00 Sean Fennessey? Andy is a little familiar with Sean.
1:19:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah. What, what was that?
1:19:02 Chris Ryan? Hey Andy, how's the peepin?
1:19:05 Sean Fennessey? It's a little creepy. Yeah.
1:19:07 Bill Simmons? If somebody kissed my son, that eight-year-old son.
1:19:11 Sean Fennessey? Don't you kiss my son!
1:19:12 Bill Simmons? On the cheek like that over and over again, I'd be like, dude.
1:19:14 Chris Ryan? Full Sean Penn Mr. Griffin.
1:19:16 Bill Simmons? What the fuck, buddy?
1:19:17 Sean Fennessey? Is that my son in your arms?
1:19:22 Bill Simmons? What, uh, anymore picking answer now?
1:19:24 Chris Ryan? Oh, we covered a lot of the, a lot of them.
1:19:26 Bill Simmons? Sequel, prequel, prestige TV all black cast or untouchable. I mean, obviously, prequel is the answer.
1:19:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:19:33 Bill Simmons? Think we all would have wanted to.
1:19:34 Chris Ryan? Anthology. I think I would actually throw a new category of anthology.
1:19:37 Sean Fennessey? I always thought that, so they said that they went to Howard Sackler to write this movie because he worked on the first script.
1:19:44 Chris Ryan? Uncredited.
1:19:44 Sean Fennessey? Uncredited and was responsible for the Indianapolis speech, but I always thought that was John Millius who wrote the Indianapolis speech. So I don't really understand what, am I wrong about that?
1:19:53 Chris Ryan? I, I mean, there's, I, I thought we said that too. I mean, this is also just like, you're just reading the reporting about this stuff, so I'm not sure, but. It, I thought, I thought Gottlieb was the one who was like, I can whip up a screenplay about the USS Indianapolis, but I maybe I'm wrong.
1:20:09 Chris Ryan? Either way, they should have made that movie. I can't believe they're not, I can't believe they're just.
1:20:12 Sean Fennessey? It's surprising it's not happening now.
1:20:13 Chris Ryan? The Apple's not like, here's 500 million dollars, go make that movie.
1:20:16 Sean Fennessey? I agree.
1:20:17 Bill Simmons? They're probably are making it with like Javier Bardem and Emma Stone.
1:20:22 Sean Fennessey? That sounds, sounds awesome.
1:20:23 Chris Ryan? Why? But, but neither of them would be US naval officers.
1:20:26 Bill Simmons? Apple doesn't care. They'd need two people for the photo.
1:20:29 Sean Fennessey? Cause it's a woke Jaws prequel.
1:20:31 Bill Simmons? Famous people in their photos.
1:20:33 Chris Ryan? The first Spaniard commanding a United States aircraft.
1:20:37 Bill Simmons? We'll work around that later. We'll CGI it.
1:20:39 Sean Fennessey? Did I ever tell you guys the story about, uh, the Portuguese man of war? You know what that is? It's a giant jellyfish. My uncle used to tell me this story. He served in Korea and he's talking about how there was a, uh, where he served in the area near the Philippines where he was serving, there were these giant jellyfish. And you would have to like, uh, try to not, never go in the water near them because they could kill you because they were so powerful. And I always thought it would be an amazing, uh, aspect of this version of the story where you'd be like, you'd have, you'd be beset on all sides by sharks and giant jellyfish. And like, there would be like a lot of kill opportunities in this world. Instead of just like some kids on a dinghy stuck in the middle of Amity Island where like.
1:21:24 Bill Simmons? So you think there's a jellyfish movie inefficiency? Right now?
1:21:28 Sean Fennessey? I, I think, yeah, it looked, they look cool.
1:21:31 Chris Ryan? We're, we're not taking enough chances.
1:21:32 Sean Fennessey? They have no soul.
1:21:33 Chris Ryan? Is the big thing.
1:21:34 Bill Simmons? Well, I remember when they made Anaconda and I'm like, what the, why are they doing this? This sounds stupid. I've seen it 10 times.
1:21:40 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, there's gonna be a new one in, uh, on, on Christmas. Paul Rudd and Jack Black, they're remaking Anaconda.
1:21:45 Bill Simmons? It's on the rewatchables list.
1:21:47 Chris Ryan? You know, I, there is a, there is a secret sequel connective tissue thing here, cause isn't the Indianapolis the boat that drops the, the bomb off for, for the air force in World War II, right? Weren't they bringing the bomb to Japan?
1:22:02 Sean Fennessey? That sounds right.
1:22:03 Chris Ryan? So like Oppenheimer could have ended. Pan right.
1:22:07 Sean Fennessey? That's great.
1:22:07 Chris Ryan? The USS Indianapolis is leaving that Chris Nolan.
1:22:11 Sean Fennessey? Chris Nolan presents Jaws 5, the prequel.
1:22:15 Sean Fennessey? That's a really good idea.
1:22:16 Bill Simmons? Let's get him on the phone. Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Dean Trell, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Noel, Byron Mayo, Bernie Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays? Chris Collins or Daniel Plainview, Long Legs or Wilford Brimley in The Firm?
1:22:29 Bill Simmons? Oh no.
1:22:31 Chris Ryan? I really was, I was really just thinking mostly cause of his pre, you know, his, his priors with doing a goddamn Shark ate me. Well, that's Dave Chappelle, but Sam Jackson just being like,
1:22:42 Chris Ryan? Mayor Larry got reelected? Like the one guy who's just commenting on, on actual civic politics.
1:22:49 Sean Fennessey? That's good. Yeah, that is good.
1:22:51 Chris Ryan? How the fuck did that guy get reelected?
1:22:55 Bill Simmons? Do we need to bump any of these people from the list?
1:22:57 Chris Ryan? Uh, we haven't done Harling Mays.
1:23:00 Bill Simmons? And Barney Cousins, do they need to go?
1:23:04 Bill Simmons? Need to add some new ones for the summer.
1:23:05 Chris Ryan? Yeah, we'll mix it up.
1:23:07 Bill Simmons? Maybe if we add Jaws 2.
1:23:09 Chris Ryan? Jaws 2.
1:23:11 Bill Simmons? But with Jaws 2, I've just covered guesses.
1:23:15 Sean Fennessey? I do think Doris Burke doing just the last lines of dialogue that Brody has.
1:23:21 Chris Ryan? Oh yeah.
1:23:22 Sean Fennessey? Where he's like,
1:23:25 Sean Fennessey? he's like, alright, you big bastard, come on, I've got something for you now. That's it, attaboy, right here, Mr. Jaws, open wide and say, ah.
1:23:37 Chris Ryan? We see you, Mr. Jaws.
1:23:39 Bill Simmons? And Mike, Mr. Jaws is back. And he's hungrier than ever.
1:23:45 Chris Ryan? Bonjour, Monsieur Jaws.
1:23:53 Chris Ryan? Uh, DB.
1:23:55 Sean Fennessey? Attaboy, Mr. Jaws.
1:23:58 Bill Simmons? Just want to ask her who gets it. Let's just give this to John Williams and move on.
1:24:02 Chris Ryan? Do you think, uh?
1:24:03 Bill Simmons? Cause he has 130 of them.
1:24:04 Chris Ryan? Sorry, nevermind. I was just gonna be like, what if Shaq was like, Jaws 2 couldn't hang in my generation?
1:24:14 Chris Ryan? These new shocks aren't physical.
1:24:19 Bill Simmons? The ocean was so much stronger back then.
1:24:22 Chris Ryan? We never took days off back when Jaws was.
1:24:27 Sean Fennessey? That doesn't make sense.
1:24:30 Bill Simmons? It was so much harder to get those swimmers back then.
1:24:38 Bill Simmons? Probably an answerable question.
1:24:39 Sean Fennessey? They should do Inside the NBA, but for movies. Immediately on the movie ends, you cut to Chuck and Kenny and they break down.
1:24:47 Chris Ryan? Chuck's like, I didn't watch it. Shaq's just like, it was so much harder to make movies, but.
1:24:56 Chris Ryan? Kenny's running to like, do a diagram of the woman lighting herself on fire.
1:25:02 Bill Simmons? That'd be amazing if that's just.
1:25:03 Chris Ryan? It's always there. It's always the last episode.
1:25:04 Bill Simmons? When they didn't get Bathtub, that's just what the show became. Inside the NBA crossed with pop culture.
1:25:09 Chris Ryan? We couldn't get clips for the NBA, but we do have the Warner Brothers Movie Library.
1:25:15 Sean Fennessey? Oh, I would watch that.
1:25:16 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they could do Angel.
1:25:18 Sean Fennessey? Wow, I don't know if I want Kenny around that one.
1:25:21 Bill Simmons? Probably an answerable question.
1:25:21 Chris Ryan? Back in my day, you could be a hooker by night.
1:25:25 Bill Simmons? And you could finish your schoolwork the next day.
1:25:30 Chris Ryan? These girls.
1:25:31 Bill Simmons? You can multitask. Nobody's judging you.
1:25:33 Chris Ryan? None of these girls multitask anymore.
1:25:42 Sean Fennessey? Really good episode of this show.
1:25:46 Bill Simmons? All right, probably an answerable question.
1:25:50 Sean Fennessey? I mean, who was funding, I guess it was Len, right? Funding Mayor Vaughn's campaign? Like, is that how he won?
1:25:55 Chris Ryan? Yeah, that's, that's like just Len being like, you work for me.
1:25:58 Sean Fennessey? He bought the election?
1:26:01 Bill Simmons? I had a, what did the final three of the Miss Amity Contest look like?
1:26:07 Bill Simmons? We know Tina took it. Who was the runner up? And did she hang out in the group or was it an outsider?
1:26:12 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:26:13 Bill Simmons? And where was that?
1:26:14 Chris Ryan? Or was Tina kinda like a mafioso? It was just like, no one else is running for this.
1:26:18 Bill Simmons? Were the town folk there? Like, can you imagine living in town? Like, what are you doing tonight? It's a Miss Amity Contest. Get to watch seventeen year old girls walking around trying to become Miss Amity. Hey, I'm gonna go to Miss Amity. Whatever you do, don't kiss my son. I'll know.
1:26:37 Bill Simmons? Miss Amity Contest, they're punch.
1:26:39 Sean Fennessey? It's a really good point. This is, you know, this trope is-
1:26:42 Bill Simmons? They don't have these in real life. There's no Miss Amity in real life.
1:26:45 Chris Ryan? Isn't this prom queen?
1:26:46 Sean Fennessey? But this trope is repeated in I Know What You Did Last Summer. Because Sarah Michelle Gellar's character wins at the beginning of that, which is an homage, I think, to this scene.
1:26:55 Chris Ryan? We haven't done I Know What You Did, right?
1:26:57 Sean Fennessey? No.
1:27:00 Bill Simmons? Martin C. Brody's nineteen seventy-five Man of the Year Award? As you see it, they show it.
1:27:05 Sean Fennessey? Yep. Was that-
1:27:07 Bill Simmons? Who finished second? Did they go to the award ceremony? Where they're just like, I have no chance this year. Brody, like, killed the shark.
1:27:13 Chris Ryan? I mean, after Jaws one, Martin Brody would be Sully. He would just be like-
1:27:17 Bill Simmons? That's what I was saying earlier.
1:27:20 Bill Simmons? All he got was this little shitty plaque.
1:27:22 Sean Fennessey? But there's no-
1:27:23 Bill Simmons? He beat Larry Vaughn Jr. as the man of the year.
1:27:25 Sean Fennessey? Here's my, okay, here, this is a kind of a hot take.
1:27:28 Bill Simmons? Yep.
1:27:30 Sean Fennessey? There's no proof of what Brody did.
1:27:33 Chris Ryan? Okay.
1:27:34 Bill Simmons? Oh, he comes back and he's like, yeah, I killed, but everybody died, but I killed the shark.
1:27:38 Sean Fennessey? No iPhones, no cameras, no photographs.
1:27:40 Chris Ryan? Hooper's like, yeah, it was incredible.
1:27:42 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, but these two fucking crackpots who are out on the, out on the big ocean, going, going sea crazy.
1:27:47 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but the shark goes away for three years. The second he gets back.
1:27:50 Sean Fennessey? So sharks leave. Sharks swim away.
1:27:52 Chris Ryan? It's very, that's great timing.
1:27:54 Bill Simmons? No, I think the point is- How crazy the murder of the shark is. He's the only witness of it.
1:28:02 Chris Ryan? Right, he shoots a-
1:28:03 Bill Simmons? He comes back, so and then it came back and then finally-
1:28:05 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, it's a tall tale.
1:28:06 Bill Simmons? He had this thing in his mouth and I aimed it and I nailed it and they were like, "Smile, you son of a bitch."
1:28:10 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:28:11 Bill Simmons? And he smiled, yeah. They're like, "Cool, buddy, wanna drink?"
1:28:13 Sean Fennessey? Is Jaws just, is the entire Jaws series just the Martin Brody fever dream?
1:28:18 Bill Simmons? It's like American Psycho, yeah.
1:28:20 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:28:20 Chris Ryan? Or maybe it's Ellen thinking about what she wishes-
1:28:25 Sean Fennessey? Yes.
1:28:25 Chris Ryan? She was doing, yeah.
1:28:26 Sean Fennessey? Yes. On a sleepless night in Amity.
1:28:29 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:28:29 Sean Fennessey? Ellen Brody imagines the husband she wishes she had.
1:28:32 Chris Ryan? It's like John Updike.
1:28:32 Sean Fennessey? That's right.
1:28:33 Bill Simmons? Do you think American Psycho happened?
1:28:36 Sean Fennessey? In real life?
1:28:37 Bill Simmons? No, in the movie.
1:28:38 Chris Ryan? Is it a fantasy?
1:28:39 Sean Fennessey? I do think it's a fantasy, yeah.
1:28:42 Bill Simmons? The chainsaw gives it away when he whips the chainsaw like 12 stories down.
1:28:47 Sean Fennessey? And it works.
1:28:48 Bill Simmons? Kills her and then we don't know how he cleaned it up.
1:28:51 Sean Fennessey? Why are you stepping on the American Psycho rewatchable set?
1:28:54 Bill Simmons? Should we do American Psycho?
1:28:56 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, definitely.
1:28:56 Chris Ryan? Yes.
1:28:57 Bill Simmons? Really?
1:28:57 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:28:58 Bill Simmons? Oh, man, that's a rewatchable?
1:28:59 Sean Fennessey? It's like a beloved classic at this point.
1:29:01 Speaker 03 I don't know if it's a rewatchable, but it's beloved.
1:29:03 Chris Ryan? Do you think Inception happens?
1:29:04 Bill Simmons? I might have watched it this week.
1:29:06 Chris Ryan? Like, how much of Inception do you think-
1:29:07 Sean Fennessey? I wish you didn't. Ayo. Um, yes.
1:29:11 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I think some of it happens and some of it it doesn't.
1:29:16 Bill Simmons? Any other in answerables?
1:29:17 Chris Ryan? No, how is Larry still mayor?
1:29:20 Bill Simmons? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? For Sean, it's clear that the gasoline can.
1:29:25 Sean Fennessey? Yeah, I would display it prominently.
1:29:27 Bill Simmons? I would want the Martin C. Brody 1975 Man of the Year in Amityville, Amity Trophy.
1:29:33 Sean Fennessey? That's good.
1:29:33 Bill Simmons? That'd be good.
1:29:34 Sean Fennessey? Not the barrel?
1:29:35 Bill Simmons? No, I'd want the trophy.
1:29:36 Chris Ryan? After, I would do the barrel, the platter barrel.
1:29:39 Bill Simmons? Coach Finstock award, best life lesson. Maybe believe the guy who was a prophetic hero three years before that something might be going on again. Maybe trust him for a split second.
1:29:49 Sean Fennessey? Now that 10 teenagers watched him murder another shark, his second shark murder.
1:29:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:29:55 Sean Fennessey? He will, he's confirmed.
1:29:57 Chris Ryan? It's a shame, I gotta watch The Revenge again and find out if there was ever any like legacy repair going on for him.
1:30:03 Sean Fennessey? It should be on the cover of Time Magazine.
1:30:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:30:05 Bill Simmons? This would be like after OKC won the title, Presti made a deal and the fans were like, "I don't know."
1:30:10 Sean Fennessey? Yeah.
1:30:11 Bill Simmons? "I don't know about this Presti." Best double feature choices, probably Jaws?
1:30:16 Chris Ryan? I'm gonna go Jaws: Revenge.
1:30:19 Bill Simmons? I'll go with Jaws. I'd go Jaws 1 and then Jaws 2.
1:30:22 Chris Ryan? I think Jaws: The Revenge makes Jaws 2 look a little bit better.
1:30:24 Sean Fennessey? This made me, because there's a lot of, there's been a lot of good shark movies. And I was thinking about this because, you know, Jurassic Park's coming out this week and there's like no good dinosaur movies, but why are, why do shark movies like always work?
1:30:38 Chris Ryan? Because you can, you can kind of hide it a little bit. Like a lot of it is tension, you know?
1:30:43 Bill Simmons? I think people have like six basic fears and this is one of them, to be in the water, being unable to fight off something that's in the water.
1:30:50 Chris Ryan? This is an unanswerable question. You're living in Amity after Jaws.
1:30:55 Bill Simmons? Would you still live there?
1:30:56 Chris Ryan? Would, or how long before you get in the water again?
1:31:01 Speaker 03 That's how Jaws 2 should have started. It should have been like, this is the first day everyone's kind of decided to get back in the water.
1:31:06 Chris Ryan? The first summer, we're, we're back.
1:31:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:31:08 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:31:10 Sean Fennessey? I, probably pretty soon, I would, I would guess.
1:31:13 Chris Ryan? For you?
1:31:14 Sean Fennessey? Not for me personally, but I, I feel like people are like, eh.
1:31:16 Chris Ryan? It's not gonna happen.
1:31:17 Sean Fennessey? Not gonna happen to me.
1:31:19 Bill Simmons? I mean, you're talking about a guy who used to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, like 70 degrees in the, 70 miles an hour in the Merritt Parkway. I didn't have a lot of fear.
1:31:28 Sean Fennessey? You rode a motorcycle?
1:31:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:31:31 Sean Fennessey? You had a motorcycle?
1:31:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:31:33 Sean Fennessey? When was that?
1:31:34 Bill Simmons? When I was a kid.
1:31:35 Sean Fennessey? Like a Harley?
1:31:36 Bill Simmons? No, not like a Harley.
1:31:38 Chris Ryan? Like a Honda?
1:31:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I had like one of those fast Hondas.
1:31:40 Chris Ryan? That's cool.
1:31:41 Sean Fennessey? Without a helmet?
1:31:42 Bill Simmons? It was cool until I crashed it.
1:31:43 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:31:44 Sean Fennessey? You're like Bob Dylan. What the hell?
1:31:47 Bill Simmons? I didn't have a lot of fear back then.
1:31:48 Sean Fennessey? Is this like a known story?
1:31:50 Bill Simmons? I have a ton of fear now.
1:31:51 Chris Ryan? About driving?
1:31:52 Bill Simmons? No, just in general. You get older, you just fear stuff.
1:31:56 Sean Fennessey? This is like your superhero origin story. You like crashed this motorcycle and you're like, I'll be a sports columnist.
1:32:02 Chris Ryan? What if I took movie quotes and put it against the NBA draft?
1:32:05 Bill Simmons? Someday I'll recap Jaws 2. Figure out what the gasoline lady was doing.
1:32:10 Chris Ryan? We're just gonna take you to the hospital.
1:32:14 Sean Fennessey? You'll see.
1:32:16 Bill Simmons? Who won the movie?
1:32:17 Chris Ryan? Uh, Roy Scheider.
1:32:21 Bill Simmons? Roy Scheider?
1:32:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:32:22 Bill Simmons? I had Universal.
1:32:24 Sean Fennessey? Oh, that's a good answer. Yeah. Not Geno Schork?
1:32:27 Bill Simmons? No, he did not win the movie.
1:32:28 Chris Ryan? John Shark? No?
1:32:30 Bill Simmons? Uh, who do you have?
1:32:33 Sean Fennessey? I would have said Geno. Like, he saved this, this dog, baby. You know, this thing was headed for-
1:32:38 Bill Simmons? Didn't lead to anything.
1:32:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you know what, though? I kind of also wish he hadn't-
1:32:41 Sean Fennessey? He directed Supergirl in 1984 with Helen Slater.
1:32:45 Chris Ryan? Oh, yeah. Love Helen Slater.
1:32:48 Bill Simmons? Fair is fair.
1:32:49 Chris Ryan? Legend of Billie Jean, brother, brother. One day, one day, we'll do it. Keith Gordon, a great Keith Gordon performance in The Legend of Billie Jean.
1:32:57 Bill Simmons? You're not invited to that one.
1:32:58 Sean Fennessey? Good luck, guys. Good luck with that one.
1:33:00 Bill Simmons? Craig, what'd you think of Jaws 2?
1:33:02 Speaker 03 Sure, you know, in a vacuum, pretty good. Like, if you didn't, if, if this movie was the first one to come out, I think it would be a quality shark slasher movie. You can make the case that if Jaws 1 didn't happen, and this was the first one, that there's actually a more, like, a larger Jaws franchise.
1:33:20 Sean Fennessey? Oh, that might be what's holding it back.
1:33:21 Speaker 03 You know what I mean?
1:33:22 Sean Fennessey? Is that the original is so special.
1:33:24 Speaker 03 The Spielberg quality of it made it so everybody didn't want anymore. But if Jaws 2 was the first one, maybe there's now 15 Jaws movies, and it's like Final Destination in the Water, and it's a foundational slasher franchise.
1:33:34 Chris Ryan? FD Shark? Wondering where you get that?
1:33:36 Sean Fennessey? That's a great idea. I'm ready for that right now.
1:33:39 Chris Ryan? How have they not had a shark attack in Final Destination yet?
1:33:42 Speaker 03 That's what Jaws could have been.
1:33:44 Bill Simmons? What were your after-hours thoughts while we have you?
1:33:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I had never seen it. Um, I had barely even heard of that movie, and I was kind of in awe at how good it was, and just how tight and smart and funny and well-acted. I mean, it's, it's, it's really, really good, and I, it didn't make a ton of money. I had never really heard of it.
1:34:04 Sean Fennessey? Do you think if it had just been Michael Keaton, it would have been a very famous movie?
1:34:08 Speaker 03 Oh, it was supposed to be Keaton?
1:34:09 Sean Fennessey? No, we were just talking about, like, because Griffin Dunn is a really good actor, but he's not that famous.
1:34:13 Speaker 03 No, I didn't even, what else has he done? I don't, I haven't listened to the pod yet.
1:34:16 Sean Fennessey? American Werewolf, yeah.
1:34:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, probably, yeah. But did Scorsese specifically want him? Was that?
1:34:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he was a producer.
1:34:24 Sean Fennessey? He brought it to him.
1:34:25 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:34:25 Speaker 03 Yeah. Um, I, I, it just, I think it feels kind of- Watching it, I was like, this feels so small and random for who I know Scorsese to be now, which is kind of fun. It's, I mean, it's kind of, it's not really, in my opinion, I know, I don't think it's about a whole lot. It's just like a crazy night in New York. And it's kind of fun to see a prestige director do something like that and just have fun for 90 minutes. And it's not some big, grand story of the rise and fall of a Jordan Belfort or Henry Hill or something like that. It's just like, yeah, it's Scorsese cooking for 90 minutes in New York in the eighties. It's fun.
1:35:00 Bill Simmons? We said that on the pod that
1:35:03 Bill Simmons? that's, we just wish directors did that more.
1:35:05 Speaker 03 Yeah. Like, yeah, like blowout. Fucking movies. Like, I just like stuff like that.
1:35:08 Bill Simmons? CR, you, you missed after hours because you were away.
1:35:11 Speaker 03 I was.
1:35:13 Speaker 03 Can I also say? The one big thing that stuck out about just like the time people lived in, in the after hours era was, man, people were just really comfortable with strangers.
1:35:22 Chris Ryan? Yeah, you just pick up the phone.
1:35:23 Speaker 03 Every scene is, is him running up to a new person. And they're like, come on in.
1:35:28 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:35:28 Speaker 03 What do you need a phone? Yeah, no problem. Come on up.
1:35:30 Sean Fennessey? It's really good point. Yeah.
1:35:33 Sean Fennessey? That's how you still operate, though.
1:35:34 Chris Ryan? Anybody wants to knock on my door? I got actually.
1:35:36 Sean Fennessey? What's your address? Just give it out here.
1:35:38 Chris Ryan? Well, you know what's funny is the other night before we left, do you know about this TikTok trend where kids pull up and kick your door? Have you heard about that?
1:35:48 Speaker 03 What?
1:35:48 Bill Simmons? No.
1:35:49 Chris Ryan? You ever heard about this?
1:35:49 Speaker 03 No.
1:35:50 Chris Ryan? Uh, well, they did it to my house.
1:35:51 Speaker 03 No way.
1:35:52 Chris Ryan? Yeah, it was pretty scary. Not scary, but it was loud.
1:35:55 Speaker 03 What do you mean, kick your door?
1:35:56 Chris Ryan? They, they pull up to a stop, they jump out and they like kick on your door really hard and then run back to the car.
1:36:02 Speaker 03 So it's like a fucked up doorbell ditch.
1:36:04 Chris Ryan? Yeah, but they're like filming it, I guess, or whatever.
1:36:06 Speaker 03 And they wait for you to come out.
1:36:08 Chris Ryan? So I came out completely nude with a machete, you know?
1:36:14 Speaker 03 I'm watching Jaws 2 in here. He came out with a jug of gasoline.
1:36:20 Sean Fennessey? Did this just happen?
1:36:21 Chris Ryan? Uh, two weeks ago. Yeah.
1:36:23 Speaker 03 Did you see?
1:36:24 Chris Ryan? You're probably not a big stranger guy anymore now. Yeah.
1:36:27 Speaker 03 Did you see the kids drive away?
1:36:28 Chris Ryan? I heard him.
1:36:29 Speaker 03 But they, so they weren't filming you?
1:36:30 Chris Ryan? Well, no, they were, I think they filmed the kick, but they drove away before.
1:36:34 Bill Simmons? See, I was shooting at them like Chef Birdie, Chief Birdie shooting at the blue fish.
1:36:40 Bill Simmons? Give us your after hours thoughts really quick.
1:36:41 Chris Ryan? It's one of my favorite Scorsese's, one of the best New York movies ever made and a great portrait of a crazy night out.
1:36:47 Bill Simmons? Did you ever have an after hours night?
1:36:49 Chris Ryan? Some. Not, not like as magical as that, but I had some late nights. Yeah.
1:36:54 Bill Simmons? Cigarette nights?
1:36:56 Chris Ryan? You could say that. Yeah.
1:36:59 Sean Fennessey? You wanted...
1:37:00 Chris Ryan? I wound up encased in plaster.
1:37:03 Bill Simmons? What was the weirdest part of New York City you ended up in?
1:37:09 Chris Ryan? It's a good question.
1:37:10 Sean Fennessey? You never had like a woke up in Staten Island?
1:37:12 Chris Ryan? No, I never had like, I where, oh, I've, I mean, I've fallen asleep and woken up at the end of the F train where I was like, oh shit.
1:37:18 Sean Fennessey? I have done that too.
1:37:19 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:37:20 Sean Fennessey? That's not...
1:37:21 Bill Simmons? Where does that end?
1:37:21 Chris Ryan? Uh, the beach and then it gets really like, oh Christ, now I have to get out and get back on the F train. It's gonna take all fucking night to get home.
1:37:28 Bill Simmons? Oh, Jesus.
1:37:29 Chris Ryan? But like that, that happened at like 3 a.m. in Coney Island.
1:37:32 Bill Simmons? It's like the end of the Warriors.
1:37:33 Chris Ryan? Yeah. Or the beginning, if I had gotten off that train. Yeah.
1:37:36 Sean Fennessey? That did happen to me too. That's funny you say that.
1:37:38 Chris Ryan? Yeah.
1:37:38 Sean Fennessey? Um, Fiorentina?
1:37:40 Chris Ryan? One of the goats.
1:37:43 Bill Simmons? That's it?
1:37:44 Chris Ryan? Yeah. I mean, you guys did a great job on it. I mean, it was just...
1:37:46 Bill Simmons? You said she was a throw your life away Hall of Famer.
1:37:49 Chris Ryan? She is. She is. In this movie, she's a little intimidating, to be completely honest. She's a little unattainable. Not that she's attainable in like last deduction, but...
1:37:56 Sean Fennessey? Do you think she'd do good things for your life if were you to spend time with her? Like at any time really in history?
1:38:02 Chris Ryan? Yeah, I think she probably would have gotten me on the right track earlier in my career. You know, who knows what I would have gotten up to by then.
1:38:07 Bill Simmons? Would have kept Chris away from Pelicano.
1:38:09 Sean Fennessey? I'm still getting over her dating the FBI agent in Pelicano.
1:38:12 Chris Ryan? It's awesome when stuff like that happens.
1:38:14 Sean Fennessey? That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. It's that and the girl with the gas tank. Those are the two. Those are my two good legends. I've never seen such magical moves.
1:38:23 Bill Simmons? Thanks to Craig Corbach, Jack Sanders. Thanks to Ronic as well. See ya. Ciao.
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