‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

After this pod, it's just babies and memories. The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin must be perfect as they rewatch the 2004 classic ‘Friday Night Lights,’ starring Billy Bob Thornton, Lucas Black, and Garrett Hedlund. Producer: Craig Horlbeck Video Producer: Chia Hao Tat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at The Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full

• 0:44Speaker 00

  day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for The McShay Show on The Ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts.

• 1:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh, writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys, Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday.

• 1:44Bill Simmons?

  Get tickets now. This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate: clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their Core Shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. We're Mallory Rubin hosts House of Bar with Joanna Robinson.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:26Bill Simmons?

  Who, we team up, the three of us, Prestige TV Podcast, season three of White Lotus in February.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:33Bill Simmons?

  We did the recaps for season two. We're doing them again for season three. We're not splitting up Joanna and Rob Mahoney. They're going to do the precaps on Friday.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  And then the three of us, because we had a great time the last time.

• 2:45Speaker 02

  I can't wait.

• 2:46Bill Simmons?

  I don't even remember. It felt like, was that 10 years ago? Was it two? Was it one? How long ago was it?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  It was a long time ago. It's been a couple of years. Will we be, is this where you're ready to officially confirm that we'll be recording on location in Thailand?

• 2:58Bill Simmons?

  Would you want, we have to film all of them at once after the football season. Yeah, we could do it. We'll have to fly there right after.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 3:05Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to dress, I'm going to have the facial hair, hair and shirts of the concierge in season one.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:12Bill Simmons?

  That's going to be my look. That's going to be how, what was that guy's name in season one? The guy who ends up-

• 3:17Speaker 02

  You're talking about the Murray Bartlett character?

• 3:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  You think you can match that mustache?

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm going to try to get, get it going. Anyway, I brought you on for the last Rewatchables of the year.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  I'm honored.

• 3:28Bill Simmons?

  To discuss a movie that we love very much. Friday Night Lights is next.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  In a town where winning is everything. Here's to state. Let's bring up hell. A team with no chance. Where you going? You want me to go in, Coach? You don't want to help it? My goodness gracious. Will make hope come alive. On Friday night. This is us. Let's go right there. From the producer of Eight Mile comes one of the greatest sports stories of all time. Friday Night Lights. I don't want this to never end, Mike. Never. Never. This film is on iHeartRadio. Starts October 8.

• 4:09Bill Simmons?

  All right, Mallory, I don't think anybody loves the Friday Night Lights franchise more than you, with the possible exception of me and a couple others. I go way back to the book coming out when I was in college, Buzz Beesinger's book. And it was one of the best sports books, not only the eighties, but probably ever.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:25Bill Simmons?

  It was two years after Season of the Brink with the, the John Feinstein book about, John Feinstein, about Bobby Knight.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:32Bill Simmons?

  And it was just this glory stretch of, it started with Breaks of the Game, the beginning of that decade. And Friday Night Lights came out. It was awesome. I was immediately attached to everybody. And then the question became, when is this going to be a movie?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:46Bill Simmons?

  It took 16 years.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  It's a long time.

• 4:49Bill Simmons?

  So when did you read the book?

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Uh, God, college. Yeah.

• 4:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  College. It's been a long time since I've read the book. I have it like behind me over there. But, uh, yeah, I read it because this came, the movie came out in 2004, which was when I graduated high school and then started college. So I read the book because it was like out in the, in the, in the ether because of the film. Yeah. And so it's been, it's been a while since I've returned to the text, but, uh, obviously it's, it's a more frequent rewatch for me.

• 5:17Bill Simmons?

  Well.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Literally yesterday. What a joy.

• 5:19Bill Simmons?

  This did the triple crown of the book, the movie and the TV series.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:23Bill Simmons?

  Which, you know, there's, there's been really good movies that led to better TV shows. We Bash is probably the most famous example of this one. Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 5:34Bill Simmons?

  I think Parenthood, there's a really good argument. What's better, the movie or the TV series? It kind of depends what you like, but both of them ended up being pretty high end. And then this one, which I think the TV show kind of overwhelmed the movie.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  No question.

• 5:47Bill Simmons?

  And now the movie has become weirdly underrated?

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't think there's any doubt that the excellence of the television show, which is, you know, unmatched, like this is one of the best television shows ever made, has diminished the film subsequently. And so like to revisit this movie a couple of times in the last week prepping for the pod was a real joy because honestly, like even though I love the movie and I love a football film, I love a high school film, I love a high school football film, I love a story set in a small town in Texas, I love Billy Bob. It has so much.

• 6:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  I had really found myself like not thinking about the movie a ton because the show just takes up so much real estate in my mind and in my heart. So it was really fun to revisit it. Uh, I, I do think that it, it's just kind of undeniable that it can't hold a candle to the show, but I also think it's okay to say that and acknowledge that without it really being a slight on the film because it's more about the show's excellence than it is about anything the movie is lacking.

• 6:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's almost not fair. They had so much time and

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:48Bill Simmons?

  real estate and space to explore with the TV show. And that was the great thing about this movie is. It's a TV show wrapped in a two hour movie. There's so many plots, characters, so many interesting things going on. It's all concentrated in this one season. But for my kids, like my, neither of my kids has have watched Friday Night Lights. And I can't, I kind of can't believe my daughter hasn't watched it yet. Cause it checks a lot of boxes of things she likes on a show, but I have watched the movie with my son, who really likes it and would never watch the TV show. And I wonder as the years pass, is the movie actually going to take on greater significance than the show for people who don't feel like diving into a five season show. The other thing we have is there's going to be a reboot coming.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:29Bill Simmons?

  So I saw Peter Berg, who I've known forever. I saw him a couple of weeks ago to Christmas party. And this is like happening. It's in, I don't know what took so long.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:37Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, and I, it frankly should have come out like six, seven years ago. Right? I was ready for the TV show to come back 10 years ago.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  I think that if the continuation of the television series had happened too close to the end of the original series, everybody would have wanted it to follow the, those characters, right?

• 7:56Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  You would want to be in Pennsylvania with the Chancellors, like with, with, with the Taylors. You would want to know what Riggins was up to. So the extra time allows them to do what it sounds like they are going to do, which is use the title as a bucket to tell different stories about high school football in Texas. So this is going to be a completely different cast, different characters. I'm sure at some point, some of our favorites will make their way into a given scene. How could they not? But this isn't going to be about Tammy and Eric Taylor. Like this isn't going to be about the characters from the original Friday Night Lights, which is, I think, essential. If you tried to redo the show that was perfect, that's a disaster waiting

• 8:37Speaker 02

  to happen. You can't do it. So new characters, new story, same set of core ingredients with like this perfect alchemy that leads to this incredible brew.

• 8:46Bill Simmons?

  As long as they have explosions in the sky, we're probably good. The thing is though,

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Great score.

• 8:52Bill Simmons?

  I do feel like we've missed a lot of opportunities TV wise to just like run back a concept with different characters.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 8:59Bill Simmons?

  Even Entourage, I think, could have easily done this and just had a different. Actor or a musician or somebody in their entourage moving in and going through some of the same thing. Maybe it's a black, black hip hop star, whoever it is. I think Cheers could have easily, I've talked about this in the past, just take Cheers, move it into a different city and go. I think ER, which I guess they're kind of doing now at the pit.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Pit, yeah.

• 9:23Bill Simmons?

  A max, but there's certain things that just feel like they would make sense. And to me, high school football in Texas, they could have moved Friday Night Lights, put it in Pennsylvania, right? They could have put it in like Minnesota. I think there's places it could have kept going, but I guess they're just saying we're running back Texas. I don't, would you put it in a different city or no?

• 9:42Speaker 02

  No, I think this has, because the idea of like high school football as religion in Texas, the idea of Ratliff Stadium as the cathedral, as the church where the community gathers, that feels to me like a strand of DNA that is inextricable from the experience. Now, obviously, there are plenty of other high school football hotbeds across the country. You could set it in Florida. You could set it somewhere in California. You could set it in Ohio. I think that's not an impossibility, but when you hear those three words, Friday Night Lights, you think of the oil, Derek. You think of that particular hue of sunrise or sunset over the open plain. Like, it's just, it is Texas. I mean, Texas forever,

• 10:25Speaker 02

  right? You can't have Riggins say Texas forever for five seasons and then set the next burst of the show somewhere else. It would just like feel impossible. It'd feel wrong.

• 10:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think the movie's oh four, the TV series is oh six.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:38Bill Simmons?

  We don't have any of the stuff we have now. The, from a storytelling standpoint, documentaries, follow the team around for a season, QB one.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 10:48Bill Simmons?

  Social media. We didn't really know anything about these worlds, other than what was on like SportsCenter, what was written about in like a Sports Illustrated feature. Kind of going in blank. So when they brought us into this first with Varsity Blues, which there was a couple.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Classic, yeah.

• 11:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to call ripoff things because we love Varsity Blues, but there was Against the Grain, an NBC show with Ben Affleck as the quarterback that failed. There was Varsity Blues, same thing, like, let's go into this Texas world. What is this? Why do they care about high school football so much? Then this movie nailed it. And then the TV series took it to nine other levels. But I do feel like in 2024, we do have more info on this stuff now, right?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's a combination of that, of like just the access that you have to the players, to the culture, to the team, but also the landscape of the sport has fundamentally shifted in the last couple of years. Like, we're in the NIL era. You can't do Friday Night Lights in 2025, 2026, whenever, who knows exactly when the first season is gonna hit Peacock, and not have NIL be a part of the fabric of the story. So like, the things, you know, obviously Booster Culture, I mean Buddy Garrity icon, right? Pantheon on TV character, like, it's great to see Bradleyland in the movie. It's so fun to go back and be like, Cotty Britton, there she is, I have some thoughts on that coming up. Bradleyland, there he is, John Buddy, same character. Booster Culture is a huge part of the story,

• 12:11Speaker 02

  but the role of acknowledged money in the sport is just gonna be such a central ingredient in the new series. So that's kind of interesting, and I think also that helps me wrap my mind around the idea of how Friday Night Lights is a recurring resource, right? Because the sport is always changing. And so you have that like, that harmony between the things that are eternal. The role that high school football, that football plays in Texas as the element that is like fixed and unchanging. And then you have the nature of high school football, college football, what changes about the landscape, what changes about player empowerment, but also just like what changes about football? Where are we schematically in 2025, 2026, when this comes out? And also, like, so much innovation is always happening

• 12:54Speaker 02

  at the high school level, so you have a real, I think, fun opportunity to play there, which is like, what is happening in the game itself? So, when I first heard the news, I recoiled, because I'm like, it just makes me nervous to go back to this beautiful well. But the more I started thinking about it and reading a little bit about what they were saying about like, the concept for the impetus for the initial story, I got really excited, and I can't wait.

• 13:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, you hit the two big things, NIL and social media, which in the movie don't exist. In the TV series, there's a little social media stuff, like there was the, what was Mika Kelly's character name? I'm blanking.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Lila.

• 13:34Bill Simmons?

  Lila, the Slam Page episode, which was like, one of the first great social media episodes, even though we didn't really have social media.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  But imagine Tyra on TikTok.

• 13:44Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my lord.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  I mean, it's just a different thing.

• 13:46Bill Simmons?

  Imagine Booby Miles with NIL, TikTok, the whole thing. So, I mentioned how it'd been 16 years, 16 years from book to movie. There were seven different rejected scripts. Brian Grazer owned the rights for a while. Different people will go into some of the casting what if stuff with it.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:03Bill Simmons?

  And at some point, there were seven rejected scripts that kind of got pushed aside. And according to research, Peter Berg read all of them and reread the book. And he was like, what did they get wrong? And he realized that it all these things were about like trying to get race and oil and all these different like big picture Texas teams. And he was like that. The book's about what football means to this community, what football means to Texas, that you basically peak when you're in high school. If you're on one of these teams, those are the themes I need to put in the movie. And I, I gotta say, I liked the movie even more than I did when it came out because, and I think part of it is because I was gonna do this in what's aged the best.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:43Bill Simmons?

  The way they film it was so dramatic in 2004.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 14:46Bill Simmons?

  The quick cuts. I saw this, I actually saw a screening for it because we, I had known Peter forever and he had a screening for a bunch of family friends. And I remember my one takeaway was like, I'm a little dizzy. That was, that was hard. But now I watch it, I feel like every movie is like this. I'm totally used to watching it. Did you notice that this time around, that it seemed way more not busy?

• 15:09Speaker 02

  I, so it's funny. I also had that in what's aged the best, just the, the like editing and cutting and, and honestly, the just like, the movie is in some ways a series of montages, like nature of the, of the film, but then inside of each of the montage, like the, the number of moments where you are not just in a huddle, but inside of a, like when, great moment in the history of film, when Carter Player kicks, not only pulls Winchell's helmet off, but then kicks it directly into his face. Like you feel the thrust of the helmet moving through the air. There are a lot, there's a lot of like close framing and you know, you, you, you were mentioning documentaries and how that has just like, that's, that's an element of access that we have now to so many teams. But it does have, even though it's obviously a dramatic film, it has that kind of like

• 15:53Speaker 02

  documentary footage quality to it where the camera is right there inside of the play on the bench, but you could feel the kind of spit flying between the coach and the player or the father and the players, people are yelling at each other. And so there is a proximity, there's a proximity that pulls you into the action and it can be a little bit like whiplash inducing, but I also found it riveting on a rewatch. And I think some of that honestly is like. Technology, we're just so used to watching everything in high def and with like surround sound and you are now like accustomed. I mean, I guess in some ways you're accustomed to watching on the smallest screen possible because everybody watches things on their phone now. But on the flip side, you're, you're used to just the most like immersive viewing and audio experience possible. And so like being in the middle of the field feels appropriate

• 16:38Speaker 02

  now in a way that it felt like more revelatory back then. Yeah.

• 16:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, widescreen. When this movie was on the square TVs in the five, six years after it came out, it was just harder to follow. It felt like super shaky. So a couple of themes with this. One, you mentioned earlier about sports, sports movies, the documentary boom hasn't taken off yet. Sports movies still have this outside's impact on how we consume stuff as sports fans. And this is coming off this really kind of cool, fun era of sports movies where it was like this, like 3.0 version of For Love of the Game, Any Given Sunday, the, no, Tin Cup was 96, The Replacements, Mystery Alaska. It's a

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  summer catch. There was like a cottage industry. All of them were making money. Remember the Titans? I could name like 20 of them. They're all doing really well. And Friday Night Lights is moving us toward this kind of next iteration of whatever that was. And it's leading to stuff like Moneyball and Win Win and like dramas that also happen to be about sports. And I think by the end of the decade, Friday Night Lights sets the tone for that. So that's one thing. The other thing is it's, it's the rare sports movie where the good guys don't win, which has happened like less than 10 times. And it's always infuriating when it happens the first time. But then from a rewatchable standpoint, it's actually great that they don't win.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  This is a, this is a top tier What's Age the Best. And obviously, like, we'll say this, I think, many times throughout the pod. This is based on a book that is about a true story. So you're talking about real history. They didn't win. In fact, in real life, they were eliminated in the semis, right?

• 18:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Not even the championship game. But still, the drama of building toward, you have the, the, the opening, like, expectation. It's not really an underdog story, except for the fact that they're small. We keep hearing that they're small. And so you have that, like, seed of doubt about whether they'll be able to do it. But because of Booby, because of Coach Gaines, like, the expectations are so high.

• 18:45Bill Simmons?

  And Preacher, Preacher's like 6'8", 400.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Love Preacher.

• 18:50Bill Simmons?

  The way he's filmed.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  The first interview with Preacher where he just respond, does not respond once to any of the questions.

• 18:55Bill Simmons?

  He's basically Miles Garrett as an 18-year-old.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Great stuff. And then you have the fall of Booby's injury and then the just cratering. This team is completely lost without him and then they manage to put it together and win and make the playoff. Can't wait to talk about the coin flip. And then they don't do it, like, to come up just short after all of that. It feels right in a way that, like, even though when you're watching a sports movie, you want the team to win. You want to see them hoist the trophy. There's something weirdly to me, like, more satisfying about watching the team lose. I don't know what that says about me or why I like that more, but the pangs of Carter celebrating

• 19:39Speaker 02

  and the Panthers in a state of abject despondence. But here's the, the true magic. You get just enough hope sprinkled in. You see Charlie and Donnie Billingsley embrace, right? Like, there's hope mixed in with the pain. And then, of course, we build toward, like, those ending updates on where everybody went, including the fact that they won. They won the next season. They had the undefeated season. They didn't.

• 20:06Bill Simmons?

  Do you need this after every Ravens season ends badly?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  This is, uh, yeah.

• 20:10Bill Simmons?

  Slow motion.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Maybe that's why I respond on a soul-deep level to seeing the team lose. At the end.

• 20:17Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the best sports movie endings of a game sequence ever. The, the two guys slumped at the one yard line.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  So good.

• 20:23Bill Simmons?

  Billingsley and Winchell, and they keep cutting back to them and they're just, they look like they've just been in a war and they're so despondent, it's great. So the history of sports movies where the good guys don't win, at least modern version, last 50 years.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:36Bill Simmons?

  Bad News Bears and Rockies, same year.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 20:39Bill Simmons?

  Right. That's, that was the first time that flipped. All the Right Moves is a really good version of this where they, they, they messed around in a couple ways. They had the big game early on and like the first like 40% of the movie. It seems like they won. For some reason, they don't take the safety. Then the guy fumbles coming out of the goal line, recovered in the end zone, the pouring rain touchdown. And it's just devastating and then poor Steph never plays football again. Tin Cup, where now we've had a whole generation of, hey, it was really cool when the good guy didn't win.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:13Bill Simmons?

  And Ron Shelton twists it and the ending in Tin Cup. A League of Their Own, which is earlier than Tin Cup, but now you could argue if you're Rudy, if you're a Lori Petty person in that movie, maybe the good guys did win.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:26Bill Simmons?

  If you're a Tom Hanks, Gina Davis, you weren't.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 21:29Bill Simmons?

  Any Given Sunday and Moneyball are the other two. But.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Great list. I mean, that's a great list.

• 21:34Bill Simmons?

  This one is probably the, the, other than Rocky, probably the best one.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  I, I would also throw in Friday Night Lights, like season three.

• 21:44Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Not Winning State in season three is just so perfect, but so devastating. And like one of my, when I think back on this series, because of course you have state, you have them winning in season one, despite everything. One of the great memorable images in the history of TV where like what happened at the end of season five, and then we see the ring on Vince's hand and we realize they won. We get, we're bookended by titles, but that anguish in the middle of knowing a certain era of Coach Taylor Panthers football had ended, like that visual of Tim leaving his cleats. It's just like shatters me. It's so good. So good.

• 22:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, season three, they won because it wasn't season two.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Shout out Landry.

• 22:31Bill Simmons?

  It's a hard thing to pull off though, because you have to have a really good movie.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:35Bill Simmons?

  Not to win.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:37Bill Simmons?

  At the end, after I've just spent two hours hoping that the good guys are going to win and they don't. So one of the reasons we're doing this pod, other than we've been dying to do this movie forever, is our guy, Billy Bob Thornton, who's having a renaissance. The only person who loves Landman more than me is probably you, and maybe like two members of Taylor Sheridan's family, and it's a Billy Bob resurgence. It's so much fun watching him on any given Sunday, basically as the Landman guy.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I cannot believe it took 20 minutes to mention Landman. I'm astonished.

• 23:12Bill Simmons?

  Should we, should we throw, actually, let's throw it to a break, and when we come back, we'll talk about Billy Bob and Landman.

• 23:19Speaker 04

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• 24:04Bill Simmons?

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• 24:47Bill Simmons?

  hands down. I'll give you some other candidates if you want.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:52Bill Simmons?

  Monsters Ball is probably the highest end.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  That that would be my pick, honestly.

• 24:56Bill Simmons?

  Not a rewatchable.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  Downright unpleasant to revisit.

• 25:01Bill Simmons?

  I would say that that will not be on the rewatchables.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Great movie.

• 25:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, maybe that's that's probably the highest end quality movie and Heath Ledger is amazing in that movie.

• 25:12Bill Simmons?

  But this is the most rewatchable. Some people might go with Bad Santa.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Not over this. Come on.

• 25:18Bill Simmons?

  In Talbot Cruelty.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:20Bill Simmons?

  Some people go, not me.

• 25:23Bill Simmons?

  But this was kind of the peak of that whole run that starts with Sling Blade. He's got this little 10 year run. He was a that guy forever. And then all of a sudden Sling Blade, he's in Armageddon, he's in Simple Plan.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  He's in Pushing Tin, which they tried to do a movie about, uh, what should we call it? The Flight Dudes? But most important starts dating Angelina Jolie and they become a crazy celebrity couple. They give crazy interviews. They're wearing blood around each other's neck and at some point it feels like this is.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  I remember it well.

• 25:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:53Bill Simmons?

  They had the interview where they just said they had sex in the limo and the way they worked out. And at some point it was like, this guy might be insane. But he rallies back and it all culminates in him playing Coach Gaines.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  He had like multiple Oscar nominations, right? For uh, Sling Blade and like that run of not only getting nominated for like adapted screenplay, but getting acting nominations a couple of times. Yeah. Establishing himself as a fascinating, not only performer, but celebrity, like you're saying, because of the Angelina Jolie relationship. I have a pretty vivid memory of of being a young person, seeing the the blood necklace and thinking like, what's, what is going on with these people? This is like fascinating and almost magnetic, but also kind of actively alarming. He's just incredibly capable and talented and interesting performer. I was really excited when he was in Fargo.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  That was like a fun, just getting into the era of Billy Bob on TV. I didn't wa- I didn't, were you a Goliath person? I didn't watch Goliath, but I know people really liked his performance in that. And now having him back in our lives, not just occasionally, but weekly on Landman.

• 26:56Bill Simmons?

  The best version of Billy Bob.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Is the gift of the year. I mean, this show is so. So entertaining. My favorite weekly tradition is to text you and Chris and Jeff, like a random time period. I believe this Saturday was 10 and 10 hours and 36 minutes until land.

• 27:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  And I'm just like, waiting to boot up the app on a Saturday night because I have a thriving social life and a lot going on. And he's just, it's not only a great performance and him and Ally Lard are together, the Tommy and Angela characters is just magic. It's absolute magic. But seeing him back in Texas, it does put you in a Coach Gaines Friday Night Lights headspace. Though I would say like, the Tommy Norris character is much more overtly Texan to me than his Friday Night Lights Coach Gaines role.

• 27:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know if you feel that way about it.

• 27:45Bill Simmons?

  It's the same kind of thing where there's chaos going all around him. He's trying to solve problems, right? He's doing a little more subtly as Coach Gaines. Landman, he's a little more.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Total, yeah.

• 27:54Bill Simmons?

  You know, a little more of a character and probably a little bit of a darker side. But they, they definitely seem like they're brothers at least.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:01Bill Simmons?

  But I, he's somebody I've always just really liked. And if you kind of catch him in the right role, in the right movie, whatever, you just think he's one of the best actors on the planet. He's really good in this. He pulls it back. Uh, there's some fun scenes like with him in the boosters with the way he plays it, where there's like, we really need to win this week. And he's like, yeah.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I got you.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  I love that moment where they charge into his office unpro�. And they're like, we've just got some thoughts on the defense.

• 28:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he just, he kind of knows what he has to do. But, um, I think this is his, yeah, Monster Ball was really great.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great movie.

• 28:36Bill Simmons?

  I just never want to, I've only seen it twice. I saw it once in the theater and then once a couple of years later. And it's just, it is not a fun movie.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  It's upsetting.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  It's upsetting. It's an upsetting movie. So Friday Night Lights is probably last the longest. This movie had breakout moments for a lot of people though. Peter Berg.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:54Bill Simmons?

  Who had directed two movies, but this was the one that really catapulted him. Plus, he ended up putting together the TV show, which you can read about on a great old website called Grantland. Uh, I think it was month two of Grantland. We did a long oral history. Robert Mays did it. It was his first big assignment. And, uh, and he got everybody.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:14Bill Simmons?

  Was it, the early 2010s were unusual. You could be like, I'm doing an oral history and you'd literally get everyone in the movie and everybody who was behind it. Now you'd get like three people. But, uh, so Peter Berg, this launches him. And by the end of the decade, he was a big enough star that he was one of the first two directors we got for 30 for 30.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:34Bill Simmons?

  And from a credibility standpoint, it was a huge deal with other filmmakers. It was like we had Barry Levinson, we had Peter Berg.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh, oh, so you guys are for real. It was one of those. So I'll always be grateful for that. Explosions in the sky.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Incredible. Incredible.

• 29:50Bill Simmons?

  Them and Tangerine Dream in the finals for movie scores.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  You hear those electric cords.

• 29:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  And it just makes you want to charge onto the field.

• 30:01Bill Simmons?

  It's like, ah, it gives you like goosebumps.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  It does, yeah. That's if any great movie score does that, right? It not only like gives you that kind of tingle in your spine and the goosebumps on your skin, but it pulls you right back into that very specific setting. And the score really, really does that. And I love the way that the movie and the television scores are like in conversation with each other. They're so similar, but also specific and slightly distinct.

• 30:25Bill Simmons?

  I can't wait to talk to producer Craig about this movie. At the end of the pod, he's never seen the movie or the TV show. I don't know what his

• 30:34Speaker 02

  What?

• 30:34Bill Simmons?

  history is with explosions in the sky. But I feel like in the social media era, it's probably, you're probably aware of it in some way with some of the clips, but so anyway, big win for those guys.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:46Bill Simmons?

  The cast, Derek Luke, Garrett Hedlund, Jay Hernandez, Lucas Black, they're all really good and they all went on to do stuff.

• 30:55Bill Simmons?

  And I think the casting in this movie in general, I had a lot of trouble with, oh, what would I do if I could recast a part? I, I don't know that the Garrett Hedlund as, as basically Riggins.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:08Bill Simmons?

  In the TV show, he becomes Riggins.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 31:11Bill Simmons?

  Versus the actual Riggins, who do you have?

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, come on. Is that a joke?

• 31:16Bill Simmons?

  I just wanted to make sure.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  I love Garrett Hedlund. I actually think, I think, I think Donnie Billingsley is like quietly my favorite character. I really, really like.

• 31:26Bill Simmons?

  Unquestionably.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  I really like that character. And obviously the Tim McGraw performances as his father is just tremendous, but Taylor Kitsch's Tim Riggins is like a Mount Rushmore TV character. He's untouchable.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  No question.

• 31:41Bill Simmons?

  Liz Kelly, Craig's wife, has Garrett Hedlund because we did Country Strong once on the Rewatchables because it's her favorite movie.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Great stuff.

• 31:47Bill Simmons?

  I felt like I owed it to her. She's been an important person for The Ringer. But Garrett Hedlund, that was probably his, uh, his peak. I always liked him as an actor. I always really liked Lucas Black. He ended up in, uh, one of the Fast and Furious movies, I think.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Tokyo Drift.

• 31:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Tokyo Drift. Jay Hernandez has had like a long TV career and then, uh, Derek Luke, who was the oldest of all of them, he's been in a bunch of stuff too. Tim McGraw is an actor, wasn't ready for that.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  He's like unbelievable.

• 32:12Bill Simmons?

  He's really good.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  I mean, we can just go right back to talking about Taylor Sheridan shows now because his starring role in 1883 is like one of the best Sheridan verse performances to date. It's amazing. Genuinely amazing.

• 32:24Bill Simmons?

  What was your favorite out of all of them? 1883 or 1923?

• 32:27Speaker 02

  1923. Yeah. I mean, obviously now Landman is, is just, I think, operating on another plane of existence, but of the Yellowstone shows, 1923 is really, really, really great. I'm so excited for season two of that. I can't wait. They're all great.

• 32:42Bill Simmons?

  And then Connie Britton, who's barely in this. And I, I have a specific, specific spot later in the podcast to discuss this, but.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:51Bill Simmons?

  Playing Coach's wife.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yep.

• 32:54Bill Simmons?

  Different actor as her husband.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 32:56Bill Simmons?

  She barely has any lines.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 32:58Bill Simmons?

  Her hairdo is different.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:00Bill Simmons?

  And not really a lot of correlation to the TV series where she becomes one of the great.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:06Bill Simmons?

  Mom, wife characters in the history of television. You'd never would have guessed it from this movie.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  I also have more thoughts coming up on another category.

• 33:12Bill Simmons?

  We'll save thoughts on that. So, oh, I, I messed up the Buzz Bisterger. The book came out in 1990. The team he follows, 1988. Um, he was also cousins with Pete Berg.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Wild.

• 33:24Bill Simmons?

  Part, part of how, uh, this all happened. So $30 million budget, made 62 million, did well, didn't do amazing.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 33:33Bill Simmons?

  But I think a lot of people saw it and then it led to, um, the TV series eventually. Our guy Raj.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:41Bill Simmons?

  Three and a half stars. He loves story. He loves characters.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Love story, yeah.

• 33:47Bill Simmons?

  The movie demonstrates the power of sports to involve us. We don't live in Odessa and are watching a game played 16 years ago and we get all wound up. You're goddamn right, Roger Ebert.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  I have no notes on that review from Roger.

• 33:59Bill Simmons?

  That's exactly what happened. Great job.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Dead on.

• 34:02Bill Simmons?

  Now it's time for the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Den of Thieves 2 Pantera. The original had everything you could want from an action heist movie and now Gerard Butler and O'Shea Jackson Jr. are back and this time Gerard's character wants in on the heist. That's right. Big Nick is back and this time, that's right, the cop goes gangster. See Den of Thieves 2 Pantera only in theaters January 10th. I just saw you wipe your nose. Are you sick?

• 34:31Speaker 02

  No, just have some, some allergies, I think. The air quality here.

• 34:35Bill Simmons?

  How many times were you sick in 2024?

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Hmm. Hmm, two. I had COVID for the first, I got really sick at South by in March. I came back, I was quite sick from that trip and then I got COVID for the first time during the House of the Dragon run.

• 34:50Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Absolute worst time possible. Sick for 15 days.

• 34:54Bill Simmons?

  Holdouts. Okay, back to most rewatchable scene. I really liked the opening credits, just gonna mention that. First day of practice with the camera crews.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:05Bill Simmons?

  Where we get Don's dad coming down to yell at him, throw him down and completely embarrass him in front of a bunch of people. And then we also get Billy Bob.

• 35:17Speaker 05

  And make no mistake about it, gentlemen, we are in the business of protecting this town. We're in the business of winning. The expectations couldn't be any higher. We will win state. We will win state.

• 35:44Speaker 05

  Can you be perfect?

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Can he be?

• 35:46Bill Simmons?

  And you're like, wow, he's not going to top that speech in the movie. And then he fucking blows by it much later in the movie. But I love this whole, like, the camera crews and you just get a feeling for the stakes. It's very well done.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, the opening stretch of the movie is amazing. Like you mentioned the opening credits. I love, again, the montage nature of that stretch, not only because we're getting like the classic, you know, Slam and Sammy radio calls. You're, you're establishing the relationship between the community and the team. You're getting like little nuggets, $60,000 salary for Coach Gaines. And should the money be going elsewhere in the school? And wait, isn't the team part of the school? Like it's a, it's a perfect tonal setup. And then you're meeting some of the kids, like you get to see Winchell with his mom. You get to see Booby training. They walk into the stadium for practice and you see the list of all the state championships. The team has won before, so you understand without a single conversation, like what the expectations would be for this team in this place. It's just like perfect tonally.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  And I love too, in the locker room, the player dynamics, like the teammate dynamics are established so quickly. You have Booby and Comer talking about Adidas versus Nike. You have like the little bit of tension between Booby and Billingsley. All of that is like before you get to like, you're saying the Billingsley family fighting on the field and a cutting back and forth between all of the interviews and like seeing what the players think of each other. You really need that to understand what the dynamics are on the team. So it's a great opening.

• 37:13Bill Simmons?

  I'm also always a fan of the big board of the position players.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  The coach moving stuff. And then at the end of the movie, you know, he's gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna take

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Pulling the nameplates away. Sad.

• 37:24Bill Simmons?

  The, uh, the first game where we get some incredible music leading up to it. We get another excellent Billy Bob speech. And unfortunately, uh, Booby gets hurt up 42-7.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Brutal.

• 37:36Bill Simmons?

  Because fucking Chris Comer, that loser couldn't find his helmet.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 37:41Bill Simmons?

  Tough one.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:42Bill Simmons?

  A scene that has been ripped off. I'll say it. I love varsity blues we've done on the rewatchables, but they rip it off with the Lance Harbor injury.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 37:53Bill Simmons?

  Even though it's five years before this movie. And then the Friday Night Lights TV show.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 37:57Bill Simmons?

  First episode.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Street.

• 37:59Bill Simmons?

  They flip it with Jason Street, the quarterback, and, and they take it to the nth degree in a much, much darker, darker.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:06Bill Simmons?

  Way to go. Sorry, Craig. Spoiler alert. Next scene.

• 38:11Bill Simmons?

  Billy Bob tells Winchell that he has to step up.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:15Bill Simmons?

  I like a little coach kicking the QB, hey, I really need you. And he, and he gives him the whole speech with the end, if you decide to accept that, you're going to seriously fly, son.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  The thing that I love best about that scene, first of all, you have like the little series, right? You get these vignettes with Mike. You have like the pull and shoot sequence with the players. So they're bonding. It's actually like a kind of rare just slice of life them hanging out outside of practice or a game. Then you have the practice yelling interview mashup sequence. Then you have that quick little payphone sequence where we understand that there are other people in the family who are not there taking care of his mom. Like, he's like, your mom too, right? He's alone. And then we build to that coach Gaines visit. The thing I love best in that scene is Mike is holding like a toy car. He's holding like a little Hot Wheel or something. And it's this great little touch to just remind us that these are kids. Like,

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  you had them saying, I don't feel, I don't feel 17 when they were out there in the pickup truck. But then, you know, the, the, the childhood bedroom, the toy in your hand. It's like, yeah, you have the burden and the pressure of an entire town on your shoulders, but you're like a child. And I love, I love the little detail like that.

• 39:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a good point.

• 39:31Bill Simmons?

  Chris Comer's breakout game.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 39:33Bill Simmons?

  Leading into the let's go montage for the season. You always need that in a good sports movie. Here comes Chris Comer. Oh, my God, I didn't realize he had enough.

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  This is emotional. Don's dad throws his ring out of the car.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Unbelievable scene.

• 39:48Bill Simmons?

  Splitting with Billy Bob talking to Winchell again about curses.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 39:56Bill Simmons?

  He has a couple of great quotes. There ain't much difference between winning and losing, except for how the outside world treats you.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 40:04Bill Simmons?

  I like it.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Great one.

• 40:05Bill Simmons?

  I believe that our only curses are the ones that are self imposed. You know what I'm saying? We, all of us, dig our own holes. I agree. And as this is going on, Don's dad is just losing the backseat and whips the ring out.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  You know what that is? Do you know that? That's a state championship. I want a state championship. Just calm down, Dan. Can you touch it? Can you touch that? Can you touch that? Hell with you. What the hell are you doing?

• 40:53Bill Simmons?

  And poor Billingsley is just so upset. Now he's searching for the ring. For a second, it feels like it's going to be, what's that movie when the girl's head gets chopped off? We did on the Hereditary. He's pulled outside of the road. I'm like, oh, my God, is this Hereditary gonna happen again? But we don't realize that he actually found the ring. They do a nice little, save the moment for later, but.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  That morning after conversation is fantastic when he plops the ring down and just that line from his dad, who is like, an alcoholic and an abusive father. And the movie, I think, clearly is, is holding multiple truths in its mind at once, right? And this is part of why this is like an interesting thing to continue to explore. There's a critique of like the characters like Charlie Billingsley, who say, this is the only thing you're ever gonna have. Like, it is forever. It carries you forever. Or the guy who comes up to Winchell at the burger joint. It's like, can I, you take a picture with my baby?

• 41:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  This is it. It's just babies and memories after this. There's like a little bit of judgment of that, right? That the idea that this is like your 17th year, your senior year of high school, your last year, fighting for state is as good as it's ever gonna get. But then also there is like a embrace of how important that is at the same time. And so that, that Charlie Donnie sequence in the car and then that next morning really captures that. Because it's not like they hug at the end of that. Like Donnie's crying and he plops the ring down and then he charges out. So all of that is in there in that sequence, which I love.

• 42:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that scene has, he gives their dad the ring back. Booby watches the garbage collectors.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:26Bill Simmons?

  Booby packs up the locker room and then Booby gets in the car and cries and that's all. How many times did you cry during the re-watch?

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Not, actually not really that much, weirdly. Maybe just because I'm so familiar with the beats of the story.

• 42:42Bill Simmons?

  You've got tears left.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 42:44Bill Simmons?

  You saved all your tears for round two in the NFL playoffs.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  All right, come on.

• 42:48Bill Simmons?

  The coin toss scene you wanted to talk about, because that's a really good scene too. And it just shows how stupid Texas football is. It's like, yeah, we're gonna do a coin toss.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  It's just insane. Like, it's just crazy. I mean, I want to talk about it in a picking nits, though it's hard to say picking nits from a story perspective because it is based on how it actually happens.

• 43:07Bill Simmons?

  Undisclosed trucker location.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  It is, it's just so bizarre that something so consequential would be decided in that way. And then even like building, it's less, less inane than the coin toss deciding which of the two of the three teams in the tie go. But just like, let's have a conversation about where we want to play the game instead of that being predetermined is so bizarre.

• 43:27Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Imagine?

• 43:29Bill Simmons?

  And that's the only time the book really, really, really dove into the race stuff in this town.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:34Bill Simmons?

  And one of the only ways they would let Peter Berg and the film crew even use some of the stuff. In that town was it was like, hey, you're gonna you're gonna make a sports movie? Are you gonna dive into all this other stuff? Because it was such a big piece. The coin, the where do we play the game?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:50Bill Simmons?

  The only real time they dive into like, are the, what are we gonna have? Are we gonna have white refs, black refs?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:56Bill Simmons?

  A mix of both? And that scene dives into it the most, but for the most part, they stay away from it.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's like

• 44:01Bill Simmons?

  There's a little Dan Billingsley, Booby.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and there's like the Booster Dinner early in the movie. There's like a lot of

• 44:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, true.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Racism in that scene. But in terms of it actually being like the the core text of a stretch of the film. Yeah, picking where the game is gonna be and then talking about who the officiating crew is gonna be is is an outlier in the film compared to how prominent that is as a as a focus in the book.

• 44:26Bill Simmons?

  Uh, next scene I have everyone gets on the bus for the Astrodome.

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  Booby shows up on crutches.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 44:34Bill Simmons?

  Explosions in the skies, like, hold my beer. Let us get back in. I have that as Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happyness, or Best Needle Drop. You could have picked like five different spots, but this is probably the best one. Uh, heading in the first game, shots at everyone on the bus. I feel like this is the TV series. I think was the most influenced by this sequence. Where they were like, hey, as long as we have like this kind of scene every couple of episodes, we're doing it.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it is the tradition in the show, not only of the team bus, but then checking in with everybody else who is driving to a game. Uh, and the fun, surprising pairings that you get, you know, like Tyra picking up Grandma Saracen, who is currently just thriving as Ethel on Landman.

• 45:19Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. It's a great point. We should have mentioned that sooner.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  Dude, Ethel. Spoiler alert for the most recent episode of Landman for anyone who's not current. This has nothing to do with the story, so it's out of context. But Ethel, sitting in her old age home, saying, just once more before I die, I want a dick in my face.

• 45:39Bill Simmons?

  And Ali Lerner, Ali Lerner not being surprised to hear that at all.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Everyone needs to redo their year end list. That is like the best TV moment of the year.

• 45:49Bill Simmons?

  That was the best quote, that was the best quote of the show. Uh, all right, so we have the game.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna skip to halftime. Preacher gets pissed.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 45:59Bill Simmons?

  They're building the whole year. He finally gets mad, goes nuts, gives his speech, and then Billy Bob's like, hold my beer.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:05Speaker 05

  Being perfect. It's not about that scoreboard out there.

• 46:11Speaker 05

  It's not about winning.

• 46:15Speaker 05

  It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends.

• 46:21Speaker 05

  Being perfect

• 46:24Speaker 05

  is about being able to look your friends in the eye.

• 46:28Speaker 05

  And know that you didn't let them down.

• 46:33Speaker 05

  Because you told them the truth.

• 46:36Speaker 05

  And that truth is, is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could have done.

• 46:42Speaker 05

  Can you live in that moment? As best you can with clear eyes.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  And love in your heart.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  With joy in your heart.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  If you can do that, gentlemen.

• 47:00Speaker 05

  Then you're perfect.

• 47:02Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, and he does his big speech, which apparently was improvised the night before.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Great night.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  They had it written differently and then, uh, he was just, something had happened to him in his personal life and, so many good stuff in this, but being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down because you told them the truth. You and I have had, we've said this to each other for a long time. I want you to take a moment. I want you to look each other in the eyes, put each other in your hearts forever. He's just running, running on. I want you to think about Booby Miles. He's your brother. He's right there. His eyes are welling up and then, boys, my heart is full. My heart is full. Uh, if you're going Kyle Chandler versus Billy Bob. This, this, this makes it tough to not make a Billy Bob case.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  I'd, I'd strongly disagree with, with respect for this movie and respect for this podcast. It's just not close and frankly.

• 47:55Bill Simmons?

  Why? Tell me why. Well, you just love Kyle Chandler.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Well, he's like one of the five sexiest people who's ever lived.

• 48:02Bill Simmons?

  Strip that apart. Come on.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  You know, I, you know, I love Aaron Taylor's sad eyes. They're both great, but I, okay. Here's, here's my actual case. Well, I have two main points here. One, the fact that the ingredients for clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose are present here. Like clear eyes and love in your heart with joy in your heart. It's, it's clearly the cornerstone, it's the foundation on which clear eyes, full hearts will be built.

• 48:30Bill Simmons?

  But Gaines doesn't put it together?

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's like you have, and now I think I'll acknowledge that this is one of those things where like you can't not think about the thing you've seen subsequently when you return to the film. It's not like that's in your mind in 2004 because it hasn't happened yet. But now going back, I think that the, the Coach Taylor locker room speeches are like their own genre of magic. They're the thing that people would point to if you were talking about like a great speech from a coach. Here's, but here's the other thing then. This is the only good Coach Gaines speech in the movie. And that's a, I think that's a problem.

• 49:09Bill Simmons?

  He has to win on the first day of practice.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  But, but the messages, I think, in the, in the speech, like this actually feels like this is Coach Taylor right here. These are the ingredients that they're going to build Coach Taylor around. But this isn't really Coach Gaines the entire time. You have like you, like you mentioned, that great line about winning and losing and what really are the differences. But I'm tipping my hand a little bit for, for a take I have coming later. But like a lot of the things that Coach Gaines says to the team, I think are like of a different variety. I, and my, my, my assumption for why that is, is because you're building dramatic tension in the film for how necessary this feels at halftime of the championship game as like a balm. The players need it. They need some sort

• 49:54Speaker 02

  of healing, little ray of hope from the coach. They need to understand not only that he believes in them, but that it's okay, that it's okay if they lose, which they will. But this isn't really his energy throughout the whole movie. Like he's the guy pulling his players to the sidelines, saying, are you the village idiot? So it is Coach Taylor all the time. It's only Coach Gaines in the climax, and I think that tips it forever to Coach Taylor. Sorry.

• 50:23Bill Simmons?

  I'm not even gonna argue with you about this. The big comeback, by the way, this whole from halftime on is my most rewatchable. This is just if this was on TV and I'm watching.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  That's great. 81 Trojan horse.

• 50:36Bill Simmons?

  The big comeback, we get a shady fourth down pass leads to the TD. We get a, when it bounces and the refs screw him on it.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:45Bill Simmons?

  We had a kickoff return TD. Oh, there's hope. We get Chavez with the pick six. We get the, the Philly special. I guess it wasn't a pick six because it sets up the Philly special to Winchell.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:58Bill Simmons?

  And then we get a huge fourth down stop from the undersized tiny team, leading to I right wiggle 34 switchblade for the state championship. They put switchblade in there.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:09Bill Simmons?

  Flag in the play. Classic swerve. We've seen this in a couple of sports movies. They gotta run the amazing last play again. Fall yard short. Everyone cries. Everyone's despondent.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  So good.

• 51:21Bill Simmons?

  But Don's dad is finally proud of Don.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Hugs him. Beautiful. They do this exact same thing with Saracen in the show where he's running and you think initially from the angle that he crossed the plane. And then you realize he came up just short. It's so good. It's like they couldn't resist doing it again. The sequence right before that final Winchell play, the Billingsley run. I mean, this is like unrivaled in terms of its inanity that you don't even care is a name like they're dislocated his shoulder.

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  Right. And he gets hit by nine guys.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  He has fumbled all year long. Like one of the through lines of the movie is that he cannot hold on to the ball. And so you know, before it even happens, that his big moment will be holding on to the ball when it counts. As they pop his shoulder back into place and then that like whole, that holding call coming in and running it back is so genius. Because it gives you both things. It gives you that.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  I did it like I crossed the threshold moment for Billingsley, but still puts the team in dire peril. Which is just like exactly where you needed to be. It's great. It's great.

• 52:33Bill Simmons?

  So you have the game.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  I think it's, yeah, I think it's either, oh, it's tough. It's either halftime and the second half of the game, or I do really like the, the Billingsley family car scene. That's great. I think the only, like, the only things that you didn't have that I would even put in the consideration list are like that first, the first scene at the burger joint. That's great. And like, that's the kind of stuff that, yeah, is constant in the show. Like, again, just in the community. And I think that the, the inner cutting of the booster dinner and the party, I really love that stretch. I mean, the whole, the beginning of the movie is just, is so good. But yeah, it's gotta be, it's gotta be halftime in the second half of the game. That kinda has to be.

• 53:12Bill Simmons?

  That was the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Dena Thieves 2 Pantera. What happens when a cop wants in on an impossible heist? Action, suspense, and a whole lot of chaos. See Dena Thieves 2 Pantera, only in theaters January 10th. So what's the most 2004 thing about this movie?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 53:30Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna give you the, the two things in the finals.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:35Bill Simmons?

  The Astrodome.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:38Bill Simmons?

  Or the football hits.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:41Bill Simmons?

  This was like right near the end of the Tom Jackson screaming jacked up after they showed the top five guys getting knocked unconscious. This is the EA Sports Madden, like, just people getting crushed. And you actually watched this when you, when you've seen this movie a couple of times. There's like 45 borderline beheadings.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 54:00Bill Simmons?

  Or clotheslines where it just, it just seems like people are gonna be carried off left and right.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:05Bill Simmons?

  And I just don't think they would make a movie that way now.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 54:08Bill Simmons?

  2024.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think, I think you're right. It's the combination of it being set in 88 and, and released in 04. That's like very, a very rich.

• 54:17Bill Simmons?

  Varsity Blues has it too. Varsity Blues has a lot of like jacked up stuff. What's age the best? The football scenes are really good.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah.

• 54:24Bill Simmons?

  I, I would say like nine out of 10. They're about, Longest Yard is still my favorite for football scenes, but this is way up there. I think he, I think Peter Berg did a great job. He took it really seriously. They did some cheat stuff where they actually filmed real games and then they tried to match the uniforms to the stuff in the game. So it looked great.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:41Bill Simmons?

  Like really, all, all of it was super savvy. Uh, the giant home of the Permian Panthers sign with all you mentioned earlier with the years that they won. I love those in movies. What do you have for what stage the best? Cause I have a bunch.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Let's see. I mean, you know, just obviously broadly at the most macro level. High, high school football is, is a religious text in, in, in a Texas story. I mean, it's tough to top. And I think the combo of like, again, Slammin Sammy and, and Ratliff Stadium, which is where the, the team actually plays. Um, that capturing that pressure on the players and the fact that they're like, they're gods, they're heroes, but they're also these just kids who are crumbling under the weight of expectations. I love that. I don't feel 17 line. Uh, and that like longing, but also tragedy of the idea that like it's 17 is the best it's ever going to get. That's, that's broadly my winner. Um.

• 55:28Bill Simmons?

  Wait, hold on. Can we stay on that for a second?

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Please.

• 55:30Bill Simmons?

  Cause that's, I should have hit that harder at the top of the, it's obviously the theme of the movie. It's also a really good theme for a movie.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 55:37Bill Simmons?

  That this is, this is it. It's never going to get better than right here. And we've seen it in some sports movies and they usually have the character, um, who was, is now in their 30s and has two kids and was on the champion. They always love that. It never really worked. That guy never becomes like, oh, he's now a state senator. Or, oh, now he owns a couple of businesses. Things have worked out great. It's always like, he's just kind of looking longingly at these 17 year olds. Like, oh man, that really was the peak of my life. But even like movies, other like Dazed and Confused, it was a theme for the, for that movie too. Like this is kind of it.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:14Bill Simmons?

  For Randy, for, for Randy Floyd.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Well, and the thing that's so potent about it in this, not just this movie, but the show, like a story like this, is that it's supposed to be true for the kids. Like it's supposed to be a thing that they're thinking about it, but it's also like, it's, it's not just internal, it's really external.

• 56:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  They're constantly being reminded that how. Other people feel is also on them. It's not just about like securing their own happiness and their own memories. It's that like they have the, the burden of ensuring that an entire town feels like it has purpose and like fulfillment. And what would that feel like ever, let alone when you're 17 and you're thinking about whether like your mom is okay at home taking her pills. Like that's just a very dramatically compelling. And that's the thing ultimately where like having, like you said earlier, more room in a season of TV than in a movie. Like that is the thing specifically that they were able to mine at, and I think a depth that it, that they just definitely can't do in two hours, but still like tonally, they're able to establish it very effectively here.

• 57:20Bill Simmons?

  All the Right Moves, which came out in 83.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:23Bill Simmons?

  And that was, that, that was the first time I'd really seen something dive into that in that way where it was like, this team, we've never beaten these guys. We haven't beaten them in eight years. If you beat these guys, you're a mortal in this town. And oh, by the way, when you graduate high school, if you don't go to college, there's your job. Your uncle's your dad, you're going to be working at that mill right there.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:45Bill Simmons?

  So it's never, ever going to get better than this right now. And I don't know, it's a, it's a good sports movie theme we've seen over and over again. We mentioned the quick cut filmmaking.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, go ahead. You had more.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  We've hit a lot of mine. Tim McGraw, actor. It's just sensational. Uh, James Dutton, great character. Tension on the team, you know, I think I actually wish there were more of this. We get a little bit of that Booby Billingsley. It is for sure. Yeah. Cause like you built, you pick up right with the, the Booby Billingsley tension with Smash and Riggins, like immediately in the, in the pilot of the show. Um, so it would be, it would be fun if there were more time for that, but that's obviously important because then it builds towards a great little moment where, you know, Booby gives Donnie his nameplate and he's like, I, I think it's going to be worth a lot of money and you're waiting for Donnie to tell him to fuck off. And he's like, I bet it will. And your heart just melts.

• 58:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  It's like, great. Um, you know, a team overcoming adversity and then that team coming up short. Like we talked about already, it's just absolutely magical. Meddling boosters is something we've also already hit, but is a definite what's aged the best. I mean, that is just tremendous montages. I, okay, you know what else? Dallas Carter's approach, and to be clear, not. The ineligible player that led to their championship and season being vacated in real life, but they never punt, they never kick. They go for it on fourth, they go for two.

• 59:00Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  This is like a great, modern analytically driven approach. I really, I got a kick out of revisiting that.

• 59:07Bill Simmons?

  That's funny. I, I had a couple more. Lee Jackson played preacher.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 59:14Bill Simmons?

  Only IMDB credit ever. Never in anything else. He was a University of Texas linebacker from 98 to 2002.

• 59:23Bill Simmons?

  Then speaking of IMDB, Billy Bob and Lucas Black, they were together in Sling Blade.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:29Bill Simmons?

  So they had the connection from that. They were also in All the Pretty Horses. Uh, what's it best for me? I love when it goes badly for the coach and he, he gets back home and there's all the for sale signs in his front lawn. It's, it works. They did it all the right moves here. It always works. I like, uh, Coach Gaines and, and, and, uh, preacher. How is it out there? They're fast, they're big, they're dirty, plus they're fast.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  You said that already. Yeah.

• 59:56Bill Simmons?

  And then, uh, you mentioned the guy at the diner or the outdoor, wherever they were, the guy with the baby, take the picture and he goes, don't waste a second of it before you know it's done. Nothing but babies and memories.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:00:08Bill Simmons?

  Babies and memories.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  So good.

• 1:00:10Bill Simmons?

  Good name for a sports bar. I like Boobies MRI when, uh, when he's distrustful of the guy from Midland too. I just thought that was accurate. Anyway, the Fortune three clap award for most giftable moment, I think is also the great shot quarter award for most cinematic shot.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:26Bill Simmons?

  Don and Mike slumped over the one yard line. Just like complete despondence despair.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Great one.

• 1:00:32Bill Simmons?

  I, I took us, I took a picture of it and I'm going to mail it to you after the Ravens get eliminated in round two.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:00:40Bill Simmons?

  Probably like a week later though. A week later. Depending on how many points you have.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Appreciate it. Yeah. They're, they're drenched in blood. Hopefully I won't be, but.

• 1:00:50Bill Simmons?

  The proper response is your team's not in the playoffs. You could have just said that back to me. Your team is three and thirteen.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Unlike you, I'm not a heartless monster. Also, you're gonna get too, you're gonna get too good of a draft pick for me to be rude to you right now. I can't believe you guys get to, get to rebuild like this. It's maddening.

• 1:01:07Bill Simmons?

  Assuming, assuming our dumbass team doesn't beat Buffalo. The Den of Thieves Benihana Award for scene stealing location. Would you go Astrodome? The Astrodome, just an incredibly important sports movie location.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I'm going undisclosed truck stop for the coin toss.

• 1:01:25Bill Simmons?

  That's a great choice. I love it.

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  It's just so funny to me that they're like, we can't tell you where we are. And then there are visible signs.

• 1:01:33Bill Simmons?

  What's gonna happen? What are people gonna, gonna show up there? What's gonna happen?

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  I guess.

• 1:01:38Bill Simmons?

  Big Cooner Burger Award, best use of food and drink. Probably Mike's burger in the beginning because it made me hungry.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:43Bill Simmons?

  When the guy comes over and he's eating that burger.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  He is. He's housing it.

• 1:01:47Bill Simmons?

  Looks like a nice little Texas cheeseburger. What do you have?

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  All right, I have two other candidates for you. One would be the car, uh, chocolate milk cartons and breakfast burritos in front of the 7-Eleven. And then the cop pulls up and he's like, you get to win state. But I think this is actually the winner.

• 1:02:01Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  The foundation on which the rally girl plotlines and Friday Night Lights were built. Karen's Rice Krispie model of Billingsley.

• 1:02:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's great. That's gotta be the winner.

• 1:02:16Bill Simmons?

  Well, we only get to do this category when you're on the podcast.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:02:21Bill Simmons?

  The Mallory Rubin Award for did this movie need a better sex scene? This is a movie where, um, a very fanatical fan of the team gets Winchell in a laundry room and has sex with them.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Bill Simmons?

  Kind of bullies them into it. I don't know. I don't know if you would have gone further. Is there a different sex scene? What's the move?

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Thanks for asking. So no question, this movie needs a better sex scene. Could it have been opening earlier on the Mike Melissa sex scene instead of just cutting to Lucas Black panting into the bathroom mirror? Maybe. Uh, could it have been seeing how Donnie rewarded Karen for the Rice Krispie treat model? Possibly. Uh, could it have been seeing what Flippy and Charlie Billingsley were up to before Maria and Donnie came home and started to fuck on the couch? How'd she hear her name Flippy Bill? I'd like to know. Could it be preacher man taking someone to church? It could be any of those, but it's not. Here's the actual pick.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  It's Coach Gaines and his wife Sharon. We need a sex scene between the Gaineses because those moments between Eric and Tammy in the television show are such an essential part of why when people talk about that show, they're like, yeah, it's a great sports show. It's a great high school drama. What it really is is like the best portrayal of a marriage in the history of TV. And you get just none of that in the movie. You have like the little moment in the parking lot where they run into the boosters. You have the cute little like kissing through the chain link fence after the loss. We need to see these two in bed together.

• 1:03:53Bill Simmons?

  You get the lip point thing.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  We do. We get the lip point. We need to see them in bed together cuddling. Cause like when she sits down and he's watching tape and he's prepping for the Carter game and she's like, let's move to Alaska. You get that little glimpse of what their domestic life is like. She's waiting by the for sale signs on the porch when he gets home. We need to be in bed with them. Have to have it. It's just gotta be in there. If they made the movie again, we'd have that, I think, no doubt.

• 1:04:16Bill Simmons?

  So I had that in What's Age of the Worst, how they, I wrote, the coach wife marriage, they just punted on it.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Bill Simmons?

  Where was the Connie Britton heat check scene? So you're saying you didn't even go further and have the sex scene. So in the oral history we did at Grandland, Peter Berg's talking about how he's trying to convince Connie Britton to be in the TV show. And this is what he said. Connie Britton's role in the movie was sort of pretty wife clapping in the stands, which is about the shittiest job an actress can have. At least Talia Shire got to own a pet store and go ice skating with Rocky. So then Connie Britton said, Pete got in touch with them. Why don't you play this part? I was like, no way. The only thing worse than playing a nothing part in a movie is playing it for years and years on TV. So Pete Berg said, she said, I was out of my mind. I told her, I promise we'll create a character. We'll give you a job. We'll give you dimension. We'll give you

• 1:05:08Bill Simmons?

  a real voice. And they did, and she became one of the best characters. The marriage was fantastic, and it was the key to the show. You would never know that from this movie that that was gonna happen.

• 1:05:21Speaker 02

  I don't think there's any question. Sometimes we rip off like 15 what's aged the worst, and it's like, ooh, toss up. I don't think there's any question that it's this.

• 1:05:29Bill Simmons?

  Keeping, keeping Coach Taylor's wife on the bench for a two hour movie and just not even running a play for her.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Because like, even when you watch it the first time, you're kind of like, this is a nothing part and a nothing character. This is just sort of like weird, just to establish that he has a loving wife and support at home and like a family where if the town runs them out and the kids like, do we have to move again? There's some sort of like direct personal consequence. That's like it. That's the only reason to have them in the movie at all.

• 1:05:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  So, the first time you see it, you're like, eh, but coming back to the movie after Tammy Taylor has blown us away for five seasons. It's one of the best performances like ever on TV. And like you said, one of the most memorable characters. This is just kind of like unforgivable. It's really damning. It really is.

• 1:06:19Bill Simmons?

  This is, this is a sports movie issue over and over again with girlfriends and wives. They just, if they didn't really know what to do with them, they just kind of put them on the side and they cut to them during a big game.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Bill Simmons?

  You're leading me to, um, that easily could have been for me the Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link in the film.

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:39Bill Simmons?

  But that's not what I had.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:06:42Bill Simmons?

  I combined it with the Vincent Chaser Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job? I have a feeling you have some thoughts on this as well. Coach Gaines, maybe just a bad coach.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  This is my hottest take, but maybe it's not that hot.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  So, I, just stuff I wrote down, you might have more. First day of practices, lets this starting fullback just get the shit beaten out of him on his, on the field by his dad? Maybe ban the dad from practice?

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, ludicrous.

• 1:07:08Bill Simmons?

  Guys abusing your starting fullback? Uh, first game.

• 1:07:12Bill Simmons?

  If Chris Comer was the backup to the backup and he couldn't find his helmet when you're at 42-7 with 90 seconds left, maybe put in the second string running back? You have a giant Texas football team.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  This drives me crazy. This drives me crazy. Put in Wilson, the second stringer. Put in Billingsley.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  You're 35, call timeout.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  Anything other than putting Booby back in. Anything. And we should say, like, I don't know if you want us to talk about this elsewhere, but this is not how Booby got hurt in real life. He got hurt in a preseason scrimmage, his leg getting like trapped in the turf.

• 1:07:44Bill Simmons?

  We're movie only.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Movie only.

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  Then after, after the game, he tells the team, Booby's fine.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  This is like, I wrote this in all caps in my outline. Lying to the team in this situation is deranged.

• 1:07:56Bill Simmons?

  Booby's gonna be fine. Booby's gonna be fine.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  He'll be back in a week. What is the point of telling this lie? What is the point of this? This is like, I can't wrap my mind around this. This is deranged. This is pathological.

• 1:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Why doesn't he try to find any information about Booby's knee from that point on?

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 1:08:16Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't, hey, you're the most powerful guy in town. You're the football coach. You have all these boosters. You don't have one medical booster. There's not one person who can be like, hey, something's going on with Booby's knee. We gotta get the best doctor possible. Is there somebody we can fly in?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:32Bill Simmons?

  We gotta get an MRI immediately. He's acting like, like Booby had COVID or something. Is Booby's COVID done yet? No, we don't know yet. Maybe one more day. It's like, this fucking knee. This guy's going to college next year. Where are the scouts calling, finding out more about Booby's knee? The movie just kinda, I guess they only had two hours.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  The, this, this drives me crazy. Cause like, again, a movie I love, but this just doesn't make sense. And it's also like, we have the scene before he lies to the team, but after the injury where like the team doctor, one of the assistants is like, it's definitely like a tear. So he knows. And yet he's content to let Booby and LV lie to him multiple times when they're like, yeah, we're fine.

• 1:09:11Bill Simmons?

  Put your brace on.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  We're fine.

• 1:09:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, put your brace on. Let's try it in game six.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  Why is he not insisting that he has surgery for the good of his life? Because we get That little scene early in the movie where it's Coach and his wife Sharon and LV and Booby. It is the four of them having a family dinner and he's like, everything that happens to you this year, you deserve. That is there to tell us one thing, that he genuinely cares about this kid. And that there's a closeness between these families that transcends whatever happens on the field.

• 1:09:44Bill Simmons?

  And then he doesn't back up any of it. And then he's giving the speeches to like Winchell about like trying to get, trying to get, elevate those guys. And it's like, you just like sent Booby out on the side. But my guess is this was probably based on some real life stuff. And I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm sure, um, you know, um,

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  bizarre.

• 1:10:05Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why it took an extra game to start airing it out with Mike Winchell.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 1:10:11Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why he didn't play preacher at tight end, at least on like third and short. Preacher was 6'8", 490 pounds and was Myles Garrett. Just like maybe, maybe have two plays on offense at high school. The best guys play both ways. I don't understand why he didn't have more info on Booby's knee before he throws him in in the last game. Doesn't play him for three and a half quarters, brings him in and then immediately runs two sweeps on him where he's clearly hurt in the first sweep. It's like, run it back. What could go wrong?

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Deranged.

• 1:10:41Bill Simmons?

  And then you mentioned earlier, the Billings League. So my fullback has a separated shoulder. Here's my idea for a trick play. Uh, against a much bigger Dallas Carter team. Surprise handoff and just try to knock off nine of these guys with your injured shoulder. That was his trick play.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  And I love the way that they, when they cut to him when they're popping Donnie's shoulder back in and he's like nodding.

• 1:11:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:04Bill Simmons?

  What other Coach Kans nitpicks did you have?

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  Well, you hit almost all of them. I think there's like a lot of Mike stuff and just how he's coaching Winchell. That puts him into the actually is, is in the, again, with respect to the real coach, like in the fixture, fictional portrayal, like, are we sure he's a good coach camp?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Everybody after the booby injury is like you designed your entire offense and your entire team around one player. You didn't get anyone else ready to really have to carry the load. And then the way he's coaching up Mike is by calling him a village idiot in game two.

• 1:11:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  When Mike is crying and saying, my mind's not right, and he clearly needs help. We do get the touching exchange, as you noted, but we also get, we get Coach Gabe saying, your mom, you know, you're gonna have to leave her. You're gonna have to leave her. It's like, what? This is your advice for this kid who is just like falling apart in front of you? I also think on the, are we sure he's a good coach front, it is bizarre, and this would be for the whole coaching staff, not just the head coach. It is insane and bizarre to me that they seem astonished that their third string running back, third

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  string running back on a potential favorite to win state in Texas is a star. And they're like astonished that he's got speed and can run. It's just, I had that as a nitpick later, but it felt appropriate to hit it here. Just bizarre. And he's like downright hysterical during the Midland halftime rant, which again is part of why I have to take him down below Coach Taylor for like the quality of the pep talks. It's just not, it's just not the same. It's just not the same. So that was, yeah, so you had that as weakest link. That was my hottest take. My weakest link is not establishing other high school students in the movie. Again, I acknowledge that there's no room for that.

• 1:12:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you'd have had 20 minutes.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like you, the thing that makes Friday Night Lights, the show magical is really like the Landrys with respect to his future career as a kicker, the Juileys, the Tyras, the Lila's, the Beckys, like it, it helps make these characters real people and like their lives feel full. And it also helps make it a high school story, not just a sports story.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  I see what you're doing.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  You need it. You need it.

• 1:13:24Bill Simmons?

  I see what you're doing. You're worried as the years pass, the movie is gonna start grabbing real estate from the TV show. So you're doing some subtle, just so everybody knows, don't touch the goat over here. Yeah, the movie's aging great, but just be careful.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  There's room for both. There's room for both.

• 1:13:42Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? Anytime I see based on a true story, it's like, all right, here we go.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:13:48Bill Simmons?

  Based on a true story just means, hey, some of this stuff might have happened and then we're going to take a lot of liberties. They actually stay pretty close to the true story in this one.

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  Connie Britton's hair.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  It's the 80s, though. So it's 788. Doesn't it feel like 80s appropriate hair?

• 1:14:04Bill Simmons?

  I get it, but I know it totally does. It totally does. But I just am watching her like, oh, man, I just can't wait till she's Coach Taylor's wife with a more modern hairdo.

• 1:14:17Bill Simmons?

  Man, this one really bugs me. Derek Luke was 30 years old during the filming.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's great, though. But he's great.

• 1:14:26Bill Simmons?

  He's great.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  He's fantastic. His booby.

• 1:14:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm putting in the Andrea Zuckerman rule. If you're in your 30s, you can't play a high school kid. Just the rule.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Tell that to the cast of The Outer Banks.

• 1:14:37Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's, that's another example. Movie mustache buddy Garrity, is he belonging to what's age the best or what's age the worst?

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  I think this is the rare one where you could put him in both because when you see him in the movie, you're like, yeah, we wouldn't have gotten him as buddy without this. And so I think we just have no choice but to be grateful. But it's not buddy. You know, it's just not the same as buddy because he has like three scenes. I do love the mustache, though. I think the mustache is great.

• 1:15:05Bill Simmons?

  My last one is Don's dad interrupting the hookup. It's really grim.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  You've really grown up.

• 1:15:11Bill Simmons?

  Like, he's really getting skeevy in that one. They go pretty far. What did you have for what's age the worst, anything?

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Uh, let's see. We already talked about Connie Britton. Just medical treatments. You know, this gets to what we were just discussing from the Coach Gaines perspective, but more broadly, not immediately having surgery, trying to play again on the knee. It's just all of it is crazy.

• 1:15:36Bill Simmons?

  2024, you'd be Googling the symptoms and you wouldn't just be like, oh, when's my knee gonna be better?

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  It's 88. Like.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  It's not a, the, the odds of coming back at full strength, obviously are not the same in 88 as they would be today.

• 1:15:51Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  But it's not like surgery for reconstructive knee surgery would have been unthinkable or rare. So it's just very, very strange.

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  No, that is a good what staged the worst though, because now the torn ACL, you'd fix it and you'd probably be the same or close to the same. But in 88.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:07Bill Simmons?

  You were definitely going to be different. Like you were knee brace for the rest of your career type of thing.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, no instant replay because there are like really a number of plays where.

• 1:16:17Bill Simmons?

  They have that in high school?

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  It's just the fact that in a sports movie, you're like, oh, man. And of course they end up incorporating that effectively into the dramatic tension of the film. But like that conversation about did Winchell break the plan? It's like, well, yeah, he did. You could just, you could just tell he did.

• 1:16:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  That, that, you know, the fourth quarter incompletion that you mentioned already, that was ruled a catch that clearly bounces. Like we cut to people watching it on TV at home. They know it's a drop. So then the fact that they can't fix it in the game, bummer. Um, all right, I got one that you might think is controversial because you, you praised his performance earlier.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  Lucas Black is like the, the leading kid. I don't know. I don't know. I think we could have, I think we could have done better. I do, sorry. I love Tokyo Drift weirdly, but sorry.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think I'm blinded by Tokyo Drift because I liked him in that movie. And, and when he returns to the Fast franchise.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:11Bill Simmons?

  Could we have done better? So the one I, the one I would have rethought was, uh, I like Jay Hernandez, but he just seems too small for me as Chavez. Maybe that was the point. He was an undersized linebacker, but he's really, I mean, he, there's one scene when he's next to Preacher and Preacher just seems like a foot and a half taller.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  It's also bizarre because Preacher and Chavez are like two of the five players who get updates on their life at the end, but they have like four and a half minutes of total screen time between them. Like they're not real characters and obviously they are in the book, but in the movie they're like, you know, just not at the, the Winchell Billingsley.

• 1:17:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, but do you think the Winchell Saracen, maybe the quarterback on the 88 team was a little like that? Like you wouldn't have thought he was the quarterback, little undersized. That must have been one they did.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I think in terms of the, the comps are like fairly clear in terms of the characters, right? Like Winchell's Saracen, Winchell's mom is Saracen's grandma, Booby is Smash, Billingsley is Riggins, John is Buddy, Gary's Eric, Sharon's Tammy, et cetera. But the performance, so I think him being like a doubted guy who has confidence issues and isn't the star is appropriate. That, that all makes sense. They built the offense around Booby. Obviously, Saracen's coming in as like the backup and then becomes QB1. So it makes more sense in that context. But they, I think they establish how like your quarterback wouldn't have been the alpha guy. It's not really the character. It's just the performance.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Like is not, I don't know. I feel like Garrett Hedlund and Derrick Luke are like at a, just a different level in the movie.

• 1:18:44Bill Simmons?

  I have a spot for this in recasting couch later.

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:18:49Bill Simmons?

  Overacting award, Ruffel Hannah Rubenek Partridge. I didn't really have one. I thought the acting was pretty good.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  I agree. I couldn't think of anyone for this.

• 1:18:58Bill Simmons?

  I also can't think of a better title for the movie.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  No, no, no way.

• 1:19:02Bill Simmons?

  Kenny Diggit Award for most memorable core. We've mentioned a slew of them. It's probably nothing but babies and memories, right?

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  I think I would put out another candidate. Billingsley sang to Winchell at the burger joint. We're gonna get laid, we're gonna get drunk, and we're gonna win state, but not tonight. That is iconic.

• 1:19:20Bill Simmons?

  That is a great one. All right, we're gonna take one more break and then we'll hit the rest of the categories. This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no-brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of. And Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E-T-H-O-S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary, rates may vary. This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. You know what I love about football season? It's the football, but also the football watching food. And nothing hits like a Boar's Head

• 1:20:05Bill Simmons?

  sandwich when I'm watching a game. Really, any game day sandwich better with Boar's Head. Philly cheesesteak, layer up buttery slider rolls with Boar's Head London broil roast beef, American white cheese, and picante provolone. Delicious. Then add roasted

• 1:20:18Bill Simmons?

  Onions, peppers and Boar's Head pub style horseradish sauce. I love horseradish and you've got the ultimate game day cheesesteak. You've also got a whole lineup of premium meats, cheeses, hummus and dips, condiments and more to serve up on game day. Head to your local Boar's Head deli counter to shop now for game day sandwich inspiration and more. Visit boar'shead.com. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. All right, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. So you kind of gave yours already.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's yours?

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  I think Billy Bob should have played the coach in the TV show. I think it's a better move for his career.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:20:55Bill Simmons?

  All right, let me go through his career. So he's a, he's an A-lister in 2004. Here's what he does from 06 on. Again, the point of this is this is the hottest take. School for scoundrels, the astronaut farmer, Mr. Woodcock, Eagle Eye, The Informers, The Smellless Success, Deadly Creatures. By 2010, he's in Faster with the Rock playing cop.

• 1:21:21Bill Simmons?

  I just think it works out better if he's on a beloved NBC show for five years playing, playing Coach Taylor.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  From his perspective, sure, but you want to rob the world of Kyle Chandler as Eric Taylor?

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I am speaking sure, uh, purely as Billy Bob's career strategist. In retrospect, better for him to be in the TV show.

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Sure, I, I would like to believe that Billy Bob would not want to deprive us of Eric Taylor and Kyle Chandler, and he would say, I'm willing to languish.

• 1:21:53Bill Simmons?

  I knew that would infuriate.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  Until I can return triumphantly to your Texas screens as Tommy Norris and shriek in horror every time.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  Maybe that's why he didn't do it.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Angela FaceTimes me. It all worked out.

• 1:22:06Bill Simmons?

  Casting what ifs.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:08Bill Simmons?

  So I mentioned how Brian Grazer kept the rights. Alan J. Picula, who's directed a couple of rewatchables, was planning to direct this film in the mid 90s. He died in 1998, that didn't happen. John Avnett, who is a pretty well-known director back then, he had a big run at it. Richard Linklater.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Bill Simmons?

  Was all in, wrote the script. They had a budget and then I guess it was too expensive. That got pulled and then it eventually led to Peter Berg. But there's apparently like seven different versions of this before it got there. Garrett Hedlund moved to LA, was in there for a month and won roles in Troy and Friday Night Lights.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Pretty good.

• 1:22:48Bill Simmons?

  He'd been LA for like four weeks, not bad. I wasn't satisfied with the casting what if, so I texted Peter Berg and I was like, can you give me one casting what if from the movie that nobody knows? And he's like, there's a great one.

• 1:23:02Bill Simmons?

  Don's dad. The person that he tried to get was James Hetfield from Metallica.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:23:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:15Bill Simmons?

  And he said, it's a crazy, it's a crazy story, but it didn't, it didn't happen. And then Tim McGraw was, was great. So it worked out.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:23:23Bill Simmons?

  James Hetfield, who does, who's, by the way, doesn't act.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Why did he? So he wanted a musician, no matter what. That's fascinating.

• 1:23:30Bill Simmons?

  Something about James Hetfield's energy, he thought would be the right guy for Don Billingsley's dad.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  That's a great one. What a nugget.

• 1:23:38Bill Simmons?

  Great casting what if.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 1:23:39Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes you gotta go off the internet and go right to the source.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  Right to the source. Look at you. I love it. The, the, the Linklater version of this is really interesting to think about. He's a, he's an incredible filmmaker.

• 1:23:51Bill Simmons?

  It's just a different movie. It becomes a Texas, it becomes way more personal. I don't know how it goes.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  I, yeah. I'm like intrigued and I, I think we would have loved it. You're right. It would be totally different, but like, think of how you feel about everybody wants some.

• 1:24:06Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Like the football version of that.

• 1:24:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's the thing. Would have gone that version. Yeah. Could have been fun. Best that guy award.

• 1:24:13Bill Simmons?

  I, I feel like you're, you and five other people are the only people who know Buddy Garrity's name is Bradley Lynn.

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  Bradley Lynn, sure. The icon.

• 1:24:19Bill Simmons?

  I think Buddy Garrity is the best that guy because I see him in anything. I'm like Buddy Garrity. I don't think of him as Bradley Lynn. So I think he wins.

• 1:24:26Speaker 02

  That's, that's the winner. I went just because he is Buddy Garrity always to me. I went with, uh, with Timothy F Crowley, who is the official in the championship game, but is of course coached Crowley on Eric Staff in the TV show. He's another one who appeared in both films. And I, when I saw him, I was like, oh my God, that, that guy, Coach Crowley.

• 1:24:43Bill Simmons?

  Really good. Dion Waiters award, Buddy Garrity's eligible. Former Permian player coming in for the baby pick.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:51Bill Simmons?

  Girl who seduces Mike Winchell.

• 1:24:54Bill Simmons?

  Or Flippy?

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Flippy, good old Flippy.

• 1:24:57Bill Simmons?

  Or girl who is about to have sex with Don Billingsley and then it doesn't happen. I think those are all the candidates, unless you want to go anyone with the coin flip.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  Wild to realize that's Amber Heard. Um, hmm. I, I like your burger joint guy idea.

• 1:25:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think he wins.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, remember every minute of it.

• 1:25:16Bill Simmons?

  Babies memories.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Don't waste a second. Yeah, that's a good one.

• 1:25:21Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:24Bill Simmons?

  So I'm actually, I had the Lucas Black character down.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:30Bill Simmons?

  But I couldn't think of anybody in that age range.

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:33Bill Simmons?

  And what I realized was that this would have been an amazing mid nineties Matt Damon part.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:25:39Bill Simmons?

  Like a 1993 school ties era Matt Damon as Winchell, but he was too old by the time they made this movie. But it was whoever Matt Damon was in 2003, I think might've been the move.

• 1:25:53Speaker 02

  Interesting. I like it. I think like, one thing that feels really true to me, based on where these actors were in their careers when the movie came out. And then also of course, the way the show is cast is like, they, I think they have to be unknowns. When they cast the new show, they, they have to be unknowns.

• 1:26:08Bill Simmons?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's important.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  Collinsworth, Romo, or someone else for the director's commentary? Who'd you have?

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  Um, it's hard to channel Chris's spirit, you know, CR spirit when he's not here. I think I, I was able to really like clearly feel and hear Collinsworth when Booby got hurt though. Like, oh, Mike, you just hate to see it.

• 1:26:32Bill Simmons?

  Hate to see it, Mike.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  The game's secured. It's a blowout. The backouts are looking for some reps.

• 1:26:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Chris Comer's got to find his home at Mike. He's just got to find it.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, hate it.

• 1:26:43Bill Simmons?

  I was thinking Chris Collinsworth talking about preacher would have been really fun.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:48Bill Simmons?

  I want you to why he's being double teamed, Mike. Every day, these guys are huge. Every, every play, he's killing these guys. Half ass internet research.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:59Bill Simmons?

  There's cameos of this movie from Roy Williams, the receiver.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:27:02Bill Simmons?

  Ty Law.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:04Bill Simmons?

  There's a highlight of a keep to leave at some point when they're splicing highlights.

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:27:08Bill Simmons?

  The real Booby Miles plays a permanent assistant.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:27:13Bill Simmons?

  You can see him next to Coach Gaines during the big halftime speech. Um, saw that happen. Tweaks from real life. Booby Miles was actually a fullback.

• 1:27:23Bill Simmons?

  In real life.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:27:25Bill Simmons?

  Don Billingsley's father, Charlie, lost the finals in 1968.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Oh, man. So what did he throw out the window if not the state ring?

• 1:27:32Bill Simmons?

  Number two ring. Real Booby got hurt in a preseason game. You mentioned that.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:36Bill Simmons?

  And then there's a million differences with how the 88 season went, but I'm not going to go through all of them. The most interesting one was Carter High. You mentioned that they had their tournament revoked or their title revoked. So the team that they played in the finals was Converse Judson.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:27:53Bill Simmons?

  And they ended up being the state champions. So Permian actually could have been, and then Permian did win the next year. Then, uh, there's some stuff with how Permian was portrayed in the movie compared to it's a much bigger, robust town in real life, I think.

• 1:28:09Speaker 02

  Right. Odessa. Yeah. Yep.

• 1:28:11Bill Simmons?

  And then we mentioned the racism stuff too.

• 1:28:15Bill Simmons?

  Berg was so obsessed with the football scenes that he spent several weekends following Permian and an Austin team called Westlake High. Just to, just to soak in everything and then try to put as much as possible in the movie. And then there's a kind of a bummer of a story about Brian Chavez because he went to Harvard, got his law degree, moved back to Odessa.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  And then ended up in this whole thing where he, he ended up in this huge fight. He got a felony. He had to give up his license for a little bit and now he's back and it's all good. But it was, it was a big story at the time because when it happened, the movie had happened, the TV show had happened.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:28:56Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain. Friday Night Lights is a property.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  No, come on. Next. This is not up for discussion. It isn't. You're trolling. You don't, I know you don't believe this.

• 1:29:07Bill Simmons?

  I don't.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:29:08Bill Simmons?

  Billy Bob Thornton.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  No, uh, it's going to be landman. So we should just.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  With apologies to this and Sling Blade and Monsters Ball. Let's just, uh, let's just carve out the necessary turf here for Landman.

• 1:29:22Bill Simmons?

  It's dialogue like, that wasn't Sunday morning sex. That was angry Saturday night sex.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  Great stuff.

• 1:29:31Bill Simmons?

  Peter Berg.

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:29:34Bill Simmons?

  No, but I think it's actually the TV series putting that together.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:29:39Bill Simmons?

  I think with such a hard achievement to pull off. And then all the ways that show almost died and it should have died after.

• 1:29:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Bill Simmons?

  It's first season. I remember writing, um, I wrote about this in the magazine piece I did that year. Wrote a magazine column about it because it seemed like it was going to get canceled. And I had stopped watching it like everybody else because it was pre-streaming. And if you didn't watch, you know, if you felt like the show was going to get canceled or you missed the first two episodes, it was really hard to jump into a show. And the show didn't do well. And then that summer, there was some rerun stuff. A friend of mine got me these Japanese DVDs that I watched that summer caught up. And then I was like, we can't get this. The show has to come back. It came back writer's strike. Probably should have been canceled after the writer's strike because it had a bad second season, which we don't talk about.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Right, but three, four and five are amazing.

• 1:30:31Bill Simmons?

  Three, four and five, they also, they nailed. We have to graduate some of these guys and bring new people in. Are the new people going to hold up to the old people? And they have this new cast that included Michael B. Jordan. So everything he did with that show, I think. He's had a really good career. He's directed a lot of big movies. He's made a lot of money, but I still, I would think he would agree that the show is.

• 1:30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:54Bill Simmons?

  The apex.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  I mean, I think because they're so proximate to each other time wise, like you could just lump it all together, but I.

• 1:30:59Bill Simmons?

  The property.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the property. Like I, I agree. I think that, you know, season one of Friday Night Lights is unbelievable. You mentioned season two, season three is really great. I don't, it's hard for me to think of too many.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  Resets, like story resets that are on par with moving Coach Taylor to East Dillon.

• 1:31:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  Like, and pulling it off at that level and making you, you have invested for three seasons at that point in the Panthers and you are rooting so fervently against them and for the Lions. By the time they face off, it's just astonishing. Like, I have a Vince Howard jersey. I love the Lions. Season five of that show is unbelievable.

• 1:31:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, and they nailed some of the casting, too. Yeah, to get Michael B. Jordan at that point in his career is unbelievable. Yeah, my favorite show, and I wrote about this at the time, but my favorite sports show ever was The White Shadow. And they never figured out that third season when they had to graduate some of the people. And they kind of kept the coach there. The people they brought in weren't as fun as the previous people and the show just got canceled.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:32:03Bill Simmons?

  So I think by the time we got to the late 2000s, they had enough evidence of how to not do this.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:32:10Bill Simmons?

  That they did it correctly. And they had a big twist. They brought in new people. They really, they really took pains to figure out who to cast. Anyway, Garrett Hedlund, I think he's, he's done some good stuff. I think his Apex Mountain was the country's strong rewatchable. Cause he was probably as surprised as everyone else.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  Oh, man. With apologies to, to the entire Tron franchise.

• 1:32:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's a good one.

• 1:32:34Bill Simmons?

  Black Nikes? No, but big, prominently displayed. Texas High School Football content? Probably the TV show.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  TV show, yeah.

• 1:32:43Bill Simmons?

  Tim McGraw? No.

• 1:32:44Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:32:46Bill Simmons?

  Sports movie coin tosses?

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. Wow. That's a great one.

• 1:32:52Bill Simmons?

  It's a whole scene of the coin toss. I'm gonna say yes. Jay Hernandez? No, because I think he's been in a bunch of stuff. Lucas Black? It's probably Tokyo Drift.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  I think it's Tokyo Drift, yeah.

• 1:33:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:03Bill Simmons?

  Horrible sports movie parents?

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. Crowded Field.

• 1:33:08Bill Simmons?

  Really tough to top Charlie Billingsley.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  He's bad. Yeah. Geez, that's a good one. That's a really good one. Ooh, I like that.

• 1:33:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Anything else? Move on.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  No, I don't think it's the Apex Mountain really for anyone or anything, even though it's a great movie.

• 1:33:25Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  Cruise.

• 1:33:29Bill Simmons?

  Cruise?

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:31Bill Simmons?

  As Coach Gaines?

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  As Coach Gaines.

• 1:33:33Bill Simmons?

  What? Pick the case.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  I, I mean.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  I think the moments of like mania that simmer to the fore where you have this kind of calm, collected guy who, like you said, can sit there when the boosters charge into his office and just sort of like nod and smirk and know that he has to play the game. He's got the button down shirt collar popping over his sweater.

• 1:34:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  But then we'll call his player a village idiot. We'll just scream at them as they're letting this slip through their fingers, but then can kind of find the like, it's time to rally. Let's get hyped. Jolt. I think the Cruz version of this would be deranged, but kind of mesmerizing. It's harder for me to see where Hank slots in the movie, honestly. I usually pick Hanks, as you know.

• 1:34:27Bill Simmons?

  The answer's Hanks, but unfortunately, because we have a tie, we have to bring in producer Craig early. He's got to decide it. Cruz or Hanks? Craig, you have the tiebreaker as a Cruz or Hanks?

• 1:34:37Speaker 06

  The answer is Tom Hanks. I'm sorry, Mal.

• 1:34:39Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:34:41Speaker 06

  But Cruz, you can't, first of all, Cruz is way too small. Nobody will buy it. You can't have him as a football coach. He's like 5'6". Billy Bob at least has some size.

• 1:34:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  But Billy Bob is too slender. I think Cruz has a stoutness.

• 1:34:53Bill Simmons?

  Thick jackets.

• 1:34:54Speaker 06

  I also, I don't buy Cruz in Texas. For some reason, Hanks to me can pull off the southern.

• 1:35:00Bill Simmons?

  It's a great point, Craig.

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:01Speaker 06

  Personality.

• 1:35:02Bill Simmons?

  Cruz being like a diehard, longtime Texas guy makes zero sense.

• 1:35:07Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  I see Cruz going toe to toe with the boosters in a way that I don't see with Hanks here. I don't know.

• 1:35:14Bill Simmons?

  So what's the tally now, Craig? This is our last one of the year.

• 1:35:17Speaker 06

  So if Hanks wins, it's 21 to 16 Hanks.

• 1:35:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, Hanks won.

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  I think this is the first time I've ever picked Cruz. Typical.

• 1:35:25Bill Simmons?

  Can't wait to get Craig's take at the end. Racehorse, rock band wrestler or fantasy team name? Would you go Booby Miles or would you go Babies and Memories?

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  Neither. I'm going Mojo. My racehorse is Mojo.

• 1:35:37Bill Simmons?

  Great dog name.

• 1:35:40Bill Simmons?

  You know, uh, my wife looked at me last night as, as she was lying in bed with one dog on one side and one dog on the other side.

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  And said, let's get a cat.

• 1:35:50Bill Simmons?

  Beloved Jesse is 11. Um, and she said, when Ben goes to college, we're getting a third dog. And she didn't say it in a way that it was an argument.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  What happened to her desire to get a cat?

• 1:36:03Bill Simmons?

  Uh, I told her I was gonna move out if that happened. I don't like cats.

• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  Yes, you do.

• 1:36:08Bill Simmons?

  I don't.

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  You do.

• 1:36:10Bill Simmons?

  I don't. It would be the cruelest thing ever to do to Murph. It would ruin Murph's life.

• 1:36:14Speaker 02

  I, I could see Murph getting along with a cat.

• 1:36:15Bill Simmons?

  Mojo would be a good name for a dog. Picking nits.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:20Bill Simmons?

  Coop, we did so many of these.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  We hit a lot of these, yeah.

• 1:36:22Bill Simmons?

  Cooper's coach didn't realize his cone was, his coin was tails? You fucking moron.

• 1:36:28Speaker 02

  Every, frankly, everything with the coin toss belongs in picking nits. All of it. Just absolutely all of it. Not revealing the identity of the truck stop, even though they're, it's happening in real time when they're airing it.

• 1:36:39Bill Simmons?

  My 1969 Buffalo nickel? Who, who, who, what's that? Who flips a nickel in a coin toss? It has to be at least a half dollar.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  Great stuff. Great stuff.

• 1:36:51Bill Simmons?

  Last game, there's some score issues. Again, I'm right here. I've been here for the last 30 years as a sports movie consultant.

• 1:36:58Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:36:59Bill Simmons?

  Last game goes from 18 to 7, this 26 to 7, right before the half. They say it's 18 to 7, and then at halftime, it's 20. I don't know what happened with the extra eight points.

• 1:37:08Speaker 02

  There's not only some scorekeeping wonkiness, but there's some just general timeline wonkiness. Like, I always trip up on the fact that when Booby goes to Midland for his MRI, and he's like, "They said three weeks. Three weeks is up. I'm ready to play." But right before that, we get that montage, and we hear that, we hear that Permian is 5-1.

• 1:37:27Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Booby got hurt the first game.

• 1:37:28Bill Simmons?

  Five weeks. Yeah, that's a great point.

• 1:37:30Speaker 02

  That's just, that bath is not the same.

• 1:37:33Bill Simmons?

  In the game, all of a sudden, it's 26-14 in the third quarter. We don't know how they got the second touchdown.

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:43Bill Simmons?

  Um, Winchell takes 30 rough in the QB penalties? I know it was a little, it was a little crazier back then, a little more violent.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:55Bill Simmons?

  But I don't remember an era of football ever where every single time the quarterback was just getting teed off on three seconds after he released the ball. I'm positive that was always a penalty.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  It's a wild in the concussion protocol era to see him get kicked in the face and just stay in the game. He had previously also had like a neck wound.

• 1:38:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Some amazing, amazing stuff.

• 1:38:17Bill Simmons?

  And I would add Preacher at tight end on any third and short. He's just going in. The team's gonna, the defense is gonna have to worry about him. You have any nitpicks or can we keep going?

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Um, I think we hit all of them. I guess I'll just say like Winchell basically being Will Levis the entire movie. It's just like, you know, the oh reactions to the bad throws across the field and then suddenly being Russell Wilson with pinpoint precision on 50 yard bombs.

• 1:38:43Bill Simmons?

  Heated up. He's like Jordan Love. As soon as he's down 20, he heats up. The Jordan Love story. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black. We have an answer to that one. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Nell, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Evil Afy Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? Uh, Trejo hasn't won this all year.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:39:10Bill Simmons?

  Trejo is Chavez's dad?

• 1:39:13Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:39:13Bill Simmons?

  We get one bar scene with him. He's a little rowdy, but he's a great dad and somebody insults the team and he ends up fighting two guys in the bar and just does Danny Trejo stuff and then maybe he gets beaten almost near death and Coach Gaines comes to see him and he's like, ew, Gary.

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 1:39:32Bill Simmons?

  Don't leave me like this.

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  It's good.

• 1:39:35Bill Simmons?

  Gary, don't leave me homes.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  I like it. As a daughter of Baltimore, I'm always gonna pick Wayne Jenkins here. And I would, I would posit that there's not a scene in the movie, not one, where Wayne Jenkins doesn't perfectly fit. You can see him as an angry, trash talking assistant coach on a rival team. You could see him as stadium security. I like him best as a dirty cop, right? Staying truly in the Wayne Jenkins aura, who is convincing one of the players to throw a game because he's in gambling debt.

• 1:40:14Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's, I, I thought you were gonna go coin toss. He's there in the coin toss, just being like, 1969 Buffalo nickel. Oh, look at this guy.

• 1:40:23Speaker 02

  So, and I didn't know we were dealing with super coin. I love it. That gets me to, one of my unanswerable questions, I'm so curious what you think about this, on the coin toss front?

• 1:40:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  What's to stop two of the three coaches from just like, we're in cahoots, let's wait the coins? It doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter if the third team.

• 1:40:48Bill Simmons?

  Two heads.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, just make sure it's heads every time for two of the schools.

• 1:40:52Bill Simmons?

  Good scandal. That'd be good.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  I, I, absolutely nothing in place, not a single thing in place to prevent that outcome, not one.

• 1:41:00Bill Simmons?

  It's a great one. Just want to ask her who gets it?

• 1:41:04Bill Simmons?

  Probably the explosions in the sky?

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's a great one. That's really good. I would, I mean, I think best adapted screenplay. Right?

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  Like, even though some of the, the changes and the way they have to compress the, the like nuance of some of the characters and the, and the story, obviously like it's, it's a two hour movie, but I, I think that, I think the best adapted screenplay would, would be the one now, like for me that stands out more than the acting performances, honestly.

• 1:41:33Bill Simmons?

  Unanswerable questions. Why didn't Don move out? Couldn't he just live down somebody's couch during the season? Did he have to be home with the most abusive, awful dad possible?

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, again, like where the, we have the TV show where Riggins and his dad have this very fraught, estranged relationship, but Riggins does not live with his dad. He lives with his brother. So it's, that's on our minds, certainly. Uh, boy, Donny.

• 1:41:55Bill Simmons?

  Don, just move out. Live in your car for a couple of weeks. Um, where does Preacher rank for you? Greatest sports movie football legends we've ever had? Cause like the bar for me is, and we did it this year on rewatchables, fast times.

• 1:42:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:09Bill Simmons?

  The Forest Whitaker character, just demolishing everybody. That's like probably a 10 out of 10. Preacher's a solid nine, nine. It feels like.

• 1:42:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  If he doesn't have seven sacks, force two turnovers and 40 tackles in the championship game, they probably don't.

• 1:42:25Speaker 02

  No chance.

• 1:42:26Bill Simmons?

  Come close.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's a, it's a great one.

• 1:42:29Bill Simmons?

  Those characters in general, the guys who are just, you know, everybody wants some has that, which is ironically the mustache guy. What was that guy's name? Not Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell's good too, but uh, mustache guy who looks like Burt Reynolds and everybody wants them. Where it's just like, he's just clearly the best guy. I like when sports movies, there's also like clearly a best guy.

• 1:42:50Speaker 02

  My favorite, my favorite, everybody wants some figure is Wyatt Russell. Remarkable stuff. Absolutely remarkable. Um, I think that the move, the fact that the movie makes it feel like they have absolutely no chance without Booby. Knocks Preacher's legend down a, a tier because there's never a moment where they're like, it's okay. We have the most dominant defender. We'll figure it out.

• 1:43:13Bill Simmons?

  The dumbass coach was, he did a whole. Yeah. He, he built the whole offense around a running back and didn't even know his third down running back could do anything.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Classic.

• 1:43:24Bill Simmons?

  I had for unanswered, where does this movie rank in the best football movies ever?

• 1:43:31Bill Simmons?

  And it's in the top six.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  Okay. Okay.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  And I think it really depends on, I think longest yard is just number one. It has to be. It was the first one. The football scenes are still great. And then the next five in some order are Friday Night Lights, North Dallas 40, Remember the Titans, Rudy, in any given Sunday.

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  I think, and it really depends on what you want out of your football movie, but I think those five, if you're starting the discussion, I think those five have to be in it.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:44:01Bill Simmons?

  And then after that I would do varsity blues, all the red moves, the replacements and draft day, which we did together on, uh, the rewatchables.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  The best.

• 1:44:08Bill Simmons?

  Really fun football movie.

• 1:44:10Speaker 02

  Motherfucker. I love it. Where do you, do you, is this for you for high school football movies? Clearly the winner?

• 1:44:17Bill Simmons?

  No, just football. Sports movies featuring football.

• 1:44:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Bill Simmons?

  And then the only other one, necessary roughness is good. And then after that, it gets pretty bad and we haven't had one in a while.

• 1:44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:28Bill Simmons?

  We haven't had a good one in a while, I should say, but we've, we've, and I'm sure I forgot one, but I think that's the list. But Friday Night Lights is somewhere number two to number six.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:44:39Bill Simmons?

  On the list.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:44:42Bill Simmons?

  For Craig, Replacements is number one after we did Replacements. Just delayed on that one.

• 1:44:47Speaker 02

  Great one.

• 1:44:48Bill Simmons?

  All right. So that we're done with unansweredables and now we have.

• 1:44:51Speaker 02

  Wait, I wanted to ask you for unansweredables. Give me some insight on the, on the odds, on the, on the, on the lines. What were, what were Permian's odds to take it all in the preseason? What was the line for the championship game against Carter? Like what, where, where are we on all this?

• 1:45:05Bill Simmons?

  I think with Booby.

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:08Bill Simmons?

  First of all, thank you for asking.

• 1:45:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're welcome.

• 1:45:10Bill Simmons?

  I think with Booby, they're probably the number two best odds.

• 1:45:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:45:14Bill Simmons?

  So they're basically where like the Eagles are right now. Right. Probably like minus, or I'm sorry, plus like 300, plus 350 range.

• 1:45:25Bill Simmons?

  No Booby, championship game. Dallas Carter, probably like 16 and a half point underdogs.

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  16 and a half?

• 1:45:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 1:45:37Bill Simmons?

  14 and a half? I mean, it was like.

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:45:40Bill Simmons?

  All time powerhouse in a huge city.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:43Bill Simmons?

  Versus a team in a smaller city, missing their best player.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  Interesting. You might be right. I mean, there is that we get the glimpse of like the, the poll at one point.

• 1:45:50Bill Simmons?

  They lost two regular season games.

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  They did. They did. Yeah. They also had plummeted to like 16th in the rankings, like after the Booby injury and losing the, the second game of the season. So obviously then they have to kind of work their way back up into good standing, but 16 and a half, wow.

• 1:46:04Bill Simmons?

  Somewhere 13 and a half to 16 and a half, I would say.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:46:08Bill Simmons?

  I mean, after seeing Dallas Carter, that you could argue, maybe they should have been like 20 point favorites, but I almost felt like you have to do like college lines for that one. Best double feature choice. Varsity Blues is too easy, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  That's my pick as well.

• 1:46:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just Varsity Blues right into this. Let's get both sides of it. We get the super fun Texas version, then we get like the serious version.

• 1:46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're like relatively contemporary. I mean, Varsity Blues is 99, you know, it's a five year difference, but that movie is just, it's just a study in debauchery. It's the best.

• 1:46:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. We did that as a live show.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  I remember.

• 1:46:38Bill Simmons?

  What theater was that?

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  That was Largo. Yeah.

• 1:46:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Largo. That was fun. The Indian Reds Award, what happened the next day? Just notable, Gary Gaines went to college after they won the title.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:50Bill Simmons?

  In the next year, became an assistant at a bunch of different programs, bounced around a little bit, and then came back to Permian in the late 2000s.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this clearly, I am assuming, inspires the season two plotline where Eric goes to be a college assistant, right? And then, and then comes back. Um, do you find this category to be quite difficult when this is based on a real story and you know what happened to all these people? This is like really hard.

• 1:47:14Bill Simmons?

  Almost impossible. Could have skipped it. What piece of memorabilia would you want from the movie? I could offer you the Booby Miles jersey or the Booby Miles nameplate. I could offer you the Permian coin, the 1969 nickel. I could offer you something else.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  Oh, man. I, I want, I think Charlie Billingsley's championship ring, given the emotional weight attached to that one.

• 1:47:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, no, that's.

• 1:47:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, like you could pick the Panthers helmet, but it's, it's so basic. You know what would be really fun to have is one of the lawn signs for the players. Those are great. I would love a lawn sign. I would not keep it on my lawn. I would keep it inside my home. I would frame it and hang it.

• 1:47:46Bill Simmons?

  Could have put it right in the, behind you.

• 1:47:48Speaker 02

  I could.

• 1:47:49Bill Simmons?

  Your podcast territory.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Still can.

• 1:47:51Bill Simmons?

  Coach Finstock Award for best life lesson. You may never matter again in your life as much as you do right now.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  Wow, that's kind of a downer. I'm going with always keep your helmet handy.

• 1:48:03Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's good, too. Who won the movie? Peter Burke?

• 1:48:07Speaker 02

  I think it has to be. This, this leads to one of the best television shows in the history of television, so I, I think it has to be. In terms of the performances, obviously, Billy Bob is great. I really think Derek Luke as Booby is just tremendous.

• 1:48:18Bill Simmons?

  He's great. Him and Garrett Hedlund, I think.

• 1:48:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:48:21Bill Simmons?

  The performances, you know, all right, it's time. Producer Craig Horlbeck had not seen this movie. I'm a little nervous.

• 1:48:27Speaker 02

  Wait, can we just establish? So you have not seen the show, Craig?

• 1:48:31Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:48:31Bill Simmons?

  Show or movie?

• 1:48:32Speaker 02

  I don't understand.

• 1:48:33Speaker 06

  Not only have I not seen the show, I don't know anything about it. I don't know the characters. I don't know how the movie, how the show ends. I knew nothing about the movie. It came out, when did it, when did the show start? What year?

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  But you.

• 1:48:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, six.

• 1:48:43Speaker 02

  Oh, six. It went oh, six to 11. But you, I don't understand this. You love football. You love story. Just like Raj.

• 1:48:49Speaker 06

  Those are my, those are my two quartetants. Uh, I don't know. I guess it came out when I was in middle school and I wasn't watching it live. And I think when I was in high school, it was like, it was harder to watch stuff after the fact in high school. You're kind of just watching stuff in the moment. There wasn't like an easy.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  You had to do a DVD box set. Yeah.

• 1:49:04Speaker 06

  Yes. So it was kind of hard to do that. Um, before we start, just want to say, why did they let these, we're just putting a lot of trust into these Texas high school football coaches to bring their own coin? To a really pivotal coin toss.

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  That's crazy. Yeah.

• 1:49:18Speaker 06

  Three equal quarters. They're just like, yeah, whatever you want. Imagine a basketball team just being like, we brought our own ball to the game.

• 1:49:23Speaker 02

  It's ridiculous. That's what I'm saying. Like, what are they doing to protect against cheating? Like, you could make, you could weight the coin. You could get into cahoots with another team, like, on, on answerable questions, the guy who fucks it up with the, the worn out coin, like, he's probably thinking for the rest of his life about what if I had just brought a different coin? The rest of his life.

• 1:49:40Speaker 06

  The most, the, the best unintentional comedy moment was like the, the guy who was ever, uh, running the coin toss was like, and over here, Coach Gaines has a, uh, 1978 nickel. And I'm like, what are we doing?

• 1:49:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 1:49:54Speaker 06

  Any coin you can find in your.

• 1:49:56Bill Simmons?

  It's a captivating scene for some reason.

• 1:49:58Speaker 06

  It is.

• 1:49:58Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, what's your take?

• 1:50:01Speaker 06

  This movie was way, way, way better than I thought it was going to be.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:06Speaker 06

  So everything you guys said at the top, I, I wrote down and I completely agree with. Really smartly edited, very choppy, a lot of closeups. Even the color grading is kind of gritty.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:15Speaker 06

  I, I, I didn't realize how serious this movie was going to be thematically. I, I guess because it was a TV show, I thought it was going to be way more teen melodrama-y and it like, wasn't at all. And. I mean, very, very serious. Like, this is about peaking in high school legacy, disappointing your parents. I thought they did such a great job, and this is easily one of the most relatable movies for young athletes, maybe ever, or at least that I've seen.

• 1:50:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Speaker 06

  It's not a very Hollywood movie. Remember the Titans is my favorite movie. I think it's Remember the Titans is kind of the in-between between like

• 1:50:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:49Speaker 06

  completely ridiculous and in real serious. But that even has the Hollywood ending. This does not have that. So it's definitely closer to Moneyball than it is like The Replacements by a long shot to me. I have to imagine the TV show is much more melodramatic, right?

• 1:51:04Bill Simmons?

  So were you shocked when they didn't win at the end?

• 1:51:09Speaker 06

  Honestly, yeah, a little bit, because there were moments. I actually didn't love the coach of Carter. I thought he was a little slapsticky for the movie. I thought they should have grabbed somebody who was a bit more serious, because he, there was like, he was 10% Replacements, and I didn't like that.

• 1:51:26Bill Simmons?

  Maybe he should have won the overacting award.

• 1:51:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, I didn't think he was great.

• 1:51:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:32Speaker 06

  But yeah, I honestly probably did think they were gonna win, and I really enjoyed that they didn't. I also thought they hit a lot of really good subtle stuff, you know? I like didn't really play football in high school. I played for my freshman year, but I had a lot of friends who did. And just all the subtleties of they're always eating, because they gotta maintain weight.

• 1:51:48Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:51:48Speaker 06

  And all these guys probably gotta be like 30 pounds heavier than their bodies want them to be.

• 1:51:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Speaker 06

  They're always stuffing their face with the burritos. The burger, I mean, he's eaten that burger for like two straight minutes. It feels like he has three on his plate.

• 1:52:03Speaker 06

  I love that everybody in town is a psycho. They're constantly asking the kids if they're gonna win state. You know, they're pulling up next to the cops.

• 1:52:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:10Speaker 06

  Hey, boys? Gonna win state this year? Yes, sir. Gonna go undefeated? Yes, sir. And it's just like, so good. All the disregard for women is so 80s in Texas, and it's

• 1:52:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:22Speaker 06

  How's your, hey, Coach Gaines, how's your pretty wife doing? Like, man. This is great. And I have to say, I think the most, honestly, the most harrowing scene, perhaps of the 20s, of the 2000s is Tim McGraw watching his son hook up with Maria. I think that is a fucking horrific moment.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  It's terrible.

• 1:52:41Speaker 06

  Imagining that, imagining that in high school, I would be out of that house in the next 10 minutes. My God, just, just an unfathomable situation. You guys should have hit on that.

• 1:52:54Bill Simmons?

  Even Byron Mayo, even Byron Mayo wouldn't have done that. I feel like he would have asked for permission from somebody.

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  Dad, just go back to your room.

• 1:53:01Bill Simmons?

  So, so did this make you want to watch the TV show now? Could be the next step, you and Liz.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  You have to.

• 1:53:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think it might be your next three watch.

• 1:53:10Speaker 02

  Craig.

• 1:53:10Bill Simmons?

  Did she watch the movie with you?

• 1:53:12Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:53:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, because Garrett Hedlund, I thought maybe.

• 1:53:15Speaker 06

  She actually saw me watching from, like, she walked by and she was like, Garrett Hedlund, I love him. I was like, I know.

• 1:53:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, well aware.

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  Dude, you're gonna love the show. Like, I think this has a chance to genuinely be your favorite show. I'm not kidding.

• 1:53:30Bill Simmons?

  Bang out like two episodes and see how it feels.

• 1:53:32Speaker 06

  But, but is it much more like, you know, teen drama, Riverdale mixed with a football show?

• 1:53:37Bill Simmons?

  No, not Riverdale at all.

• 1:53:39Speaker 02

  There is teen drama, but like, it's expert.

• 1:53:43Bill Simmons?

  If you like the movie, there's no way you won't like the TV show. I would say it's an impossibility.

• 1:53:47Speaker 02

  Season two goes wrong in a few key ways that we will not spoil, but then they trust that they, they get their hands on the wheel again.

• 1:53:55Speaker 06

  Also, one last question. So I, I found out, right, that they won state the next year.

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:00Speaker 06

  Why wasn't the movie about that? I understand that it's maybe more interesting if it's the losing team, but I'm just surprised that it's not about the year they won.

• 1:54:08Bill Simmons?

  Because.

• 1:54:09Speaker 06

  It was kind of a letdown to be like, oh, next year they won. You're like, oh.

• 1:54:12Bill Simmons?

  The book was about 88, and I think they were staying faithful to the book because the book was like an iconic book. Like, if you, if you like football and you liked reading, you read the book. So I think that's why they did it.

• 1:54:23Speaker 06

  Did the book come out before the following season?

• 1:54:26Bill Simmons?

  The book was about the 88 season and it came out after the season they won.

• 1:54:31Speaker 06

  I guess I'm just surprised. Why write the book about the losing season and not the winning season? But maybe that's more interesting.

• 1:54:35Speaker 02

  Because overcoming adversity is is more interesting, right? Than just dominating.

• 1:54:40Bill Simmons?

  He was a really big newspaper writer and he took a year off to follow the team around in 88. So that was what the book was about. And then he went back to his job and wrote the book.

• 1:54:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:54:51Bill Simmons?

  So I think that's why they did it that way. But you're right. It's, I think there was a 30 for 30. I don't, I don't remember if I was still there or not, but we did a 30 for 30 about the Dallas Carter team at some point.

• 1:55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:01Bill Simmons?

  Um, but I can't remember if it was a short or what. We did so many of those, but uh, yeah, the Dallas Carter, like having to give the title back was like a big, that was like a national story in the late eighties. So.

• 1:55:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. I also, I think Billy Bob's, I, I think his best scene is the first speech. When he ends before the first game, he ends his speech with, so let's take care of it. I thought that, that gave me chills.

• 1:55:22Bill Simmons?

  Are you watching Landman yet, Craig?

• 1:55:25Speaker 06

  No, I haven't.

• 1:55:25Bill Simmons?

  So now Craig has two shows.

• 1:55:27Speaker 02

  You're missing out.

• 1:55:28Bill Simmons?

  Fantasy football is over now.

• 1:55:30Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:55:30Bill Simmons?

  You've got the, you've got the playoffs, the Steelers are going to be out after round one and no more fantasy football. And you have the draft coming a while from now. I don't know. You have some time for a show.

• 1:55:42Speaker 06

  Great. All right. I'll pencil in Landman in Friday Night Lights.

• 1:55:45Bill Simmons?

  I don't think Landman, I don't know if there's ever been a better show that you don't have to a hundred percent watch as you're watching it. You can like 89% watch it, but also like kind of look at the internet.

• 1:55:56Speaker 06

  It does have a 100% approval rating from everybody I've spoken to.

• 1:56:00Bill Simmons?

  It's not high enough.

• 1:56:02Bill Simmons?

  I think it should be higher.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  It's the best.

• 1:56:04Bill Simmons?

  110 should be the percentage rating. All right. That's it for the rewatchables. That was our last one of 2024. Thank you to Mallory Rubin. It was great to see you.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:56:13Bill Simmons?

  Thank you, Craig. Another great year for us. At some point, we gotta do the rewatchables mailbag because we have all of these mailbag things that we can do. So 2025, next year, some funny anniversaries. It's the 30th anniversary of the 95. Really nice run. Ninety was super fun. We've done a lot of the movies from those years, but we'll probably do some more. Thanks to Gata Howe as well. That's it. I guess we're coming back next week. We might do two next week. So just know that. And you can watch all of these that we've done for the last couple of years on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel that has some great stuff on there as well. Don't forget, me and Mal and Joanne on the Prestige TV Podcast next month, White Lotus Sunday

• 1:56:58Bill Simmons?

  Night. It's Craig Mallory. Thank you. Great to see you guys. Happy New Year.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  Happy New Year.