Pod Insights The Rewatchables ‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre About this episode The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre pour themselves a glass of 1991 Pahlmeyer Chardonnay as they rewatch the spicy 1994 corporate thriller ‘Disclosure,’ starring Michael Douglas, Demi Moore, and Donald Sutherland.
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Transcript 19,929 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at The Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full
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1:02 Speaker 01 For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremfya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremfya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremfya, proper training is required. Tremfya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.
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2:02 Bill Simmons? This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of. And Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E T H O S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.
2:36 Bill Simmons? The Rewatchables, brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.
2:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:41 Bill Simmons? You can find group chat on the Ringer MBA Show with Waz. You can find Higher Learning.
2:46 Speaker 03 On fire right now on Higher Learning.
2:48 Bill Simmons? On fire? Is that what the kids are saying?
2:50 Speaker 03 That's what the kids are saying. We're on fire.
2:51 Bill Simmons? Higher Learning, Ringer Verse with Van Lathan. Exciting news for us on the Rewatchables. We're partnering up with Lionsgate. We've already done Den of Thieves as a pod. We're doing it again because the sequel's coming out this winter. And we have space for a very limited number of listeners to join us for an intimate live show on December 16th in downtown Los Angeles. Vance is going to be involved. Space is limited, so if you don't get a ticket, don't worry. We'll do more big shows, bigger audience shows next year. But for now, if you live in LA and you're free next Monday, December 16th, register now at bit.ly/rewatchablesden while space permits, or just click the link in this episode's description. Hope to see you there. There might not be another Rewatchables episode after this week because we're about to do Disclosure.
3:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:35 Bill Simmons? And I don't know what the hell is going to happen, but it's next.
4:14 Bill Simmons? Alright, so.
4:18 Bill Simmons? I don't know why Three Guys are doing this movie. I just want to acknowledge it coming out of the gate. It's a corporate intrigue erotic thriller.
4:24 Speaker 03 We don't have to do that anymore. We don't have to.
4:27 Bill Simmons? Oh, in Trump's America, we're fine? No, the reason we're doing this is because this is now one of the funniest movies of the 90s. I have no idea how to even explain how this movie happened. I saw it in the theater. I was excited to see it in the theater. It did really well in the box office. And then the years start passing and the internet forms in the shape and habits change and people change. And now this movie is like, how the fuck did this happen? Waz, you suggested it.
4:51 Speaker 04 So during the pandemic, 2020, early 2021, like I was watching damn near three movies a day.
4:58 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
4:59 Speaker 04 Yeah. And between whatever your different streamers have available, sometimes you just end up on Amazon or YouTube and just rent movies. And you know, when you're renting a movie, you get to watch the trailer first. And I'm like, alright, Demi Moore, Michael Douglas.
5:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:15 Speaker 04 Okay, you know, basically a freaking. Exactly.
5:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
5:19 Speaker 04 And I'd never even heard of the movie before, much less seen it. So I popped it in and you know, you think you're in some sort of erotic thriller, which there's definitely a lot of elements to that in a movie, but it turns into something completely different throughout the course of it. And I just was fascinated by it as a document, honestly.
5:38 Bill Simmons? Did you, what's your history of this movie, Van? How many years?
5:40 Speaker 03 Uh, going all the way back to, I had that scene on one of my mixtapes that I had back in the day.
5:46 Bill Simmons? Oh, no.
5:48 Speaker 03 I had VCR mixtapes of different things and I had that scene on one of the mixtapes.
5:53 Bill Simmons? Oh, no.
5:55 Speaker 03 So.
5:56 Bill Simmons? Here we go.
5:57 Speaker 03 Okay, we're off. What I remember about the movie was the bait and switch that people felt when they saw it.
6:03 Speaker 04 Yep.
6:04 Speaker 03 Because Michael Douglas, a couple of years before that, had done Basic Instinct.
6:10 Speaker 04 Of course.
6:10 Bill Simmons? And a couple of years before that, Fatal Attraction.
6:12 Speaker 03 So this was the third in what people thought was going to be the erotic trilogy of Michael Douglas. Those two movies have pretty outrageous sexuality throughout the whole thing. This movie doesn't.
6:27 Speaker 04 No.
6:27 Speaker 03 For one scene, it's ratcheted it up and did its reference for the rest of it. And a lot of people were like, wait a minute, what's going on? And she was smoking hot at the time.
6:36 Speaker 04 Yes.
6:36 Speaker 03 So people wanted to see Demi in this way, and they got one blistering scene of it.
6:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:44 Speaker 03 And then it went away, and it was about corporate espionage.
6:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:47 Bill Simmons? And what the internet was not gonna look like thirty years later.
6:51 Speaker 03 Right.
6:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah, this was the trilogy of Michael Douglas, the everyman with his dick getting him in trouble.
6:57 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
6:57 Bill Simmons? But in the end, he's gonna get out of it.
6:59 Speaker 03 Right.
7:00 Bill Simmons? And it turned out to be that crazy lady's fault. This is what the late eighties, nineties were like.
7:07 Bill Simmons? I wrote down, it's a sexual harassment movie that's really about men's fear of the nineteen nineties, that women were starting to take their jobs, which you feel all the way through. It's about this weird, the internet's coming, what's this gonna be? I remember seeing this movie, I didn't have email for two years until after I saw this movie. So he's getting emails popping up with, from no server. I'm like, well, that, that makes sense. Digital messages.
7:31 Speaker 03 They were FaceTiming.
7:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they're FaceTiming. It's like, well, that seems realistic. And then finally with the VR stuff with the gloves, it's like, well, maybe that's where things are going.
7:40 Speaker 04 Yeah.
7:41 Bill Simmons? And then you see it now, and it's just hilarious. That scene in the hotel room has to be one of the funniest scenes in the nineties.
7:46 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's, they, they have to find a way to sort of tie a bow on the plot stuff, because I think the movie just has so much to say about so many things, whether it be, you know, technology, whether we should embrace it or fear it, um, women in the boardroom, uh, sexual harassment, sexuality, like masculine. Like, this movie has so much to say about a lot of issues, and you know.
8:11 Bill Simmons? And it's trying to do it in an hour and fifty.
8:13 Speaker 03 Exactly.
8:14 Speaker 04 And in the meanwhile, they had to wrap up a plot and the freaking, you know, the VR goggles, the Oculus at the end was part of that wrap up. It wasn't great, but I enjoyed it.
8:24 Bill Simmons? Dan was getting, you were starting to think, what was that thing you got?
8:27 Speaker 03 What?
8:28 Bill Simmons? The Apple goggles?
8:29 Speaker 03 Apple Vision Pro.
8:29 Speaker 04 You got the Vision Pro?
8:30 Bill Simmons? Is that what the Apple Vision Pro is like? Do you just go into a virtual office and grab files?
8:35 Speaker 03 Well, no, but it kind of though.
8:37 Speaker 04 Oh, a manuel folder.
8:38 Speaker 03 You can, you can do different stuff. And then, you know, after a couple of minutes, your neck starts to hurt and you take it off and you're like, your girl and your dog are looking at you like, what are you doing?
8:46 Bill Simmons? What just happened?
8:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
8:47 Bill Simmons? What world were you just in?
8:48 Speaker 03 Um, but it's, it's so funny about how much about the internet, the movie gets wrong. I remember there's one lady and she's standing up there, oh no, it's Demi Moore. She's giving her thing and she's like, it's gonna be a place where there's gonna be no race, no gender. No, we're not even gonna think about any of those things. And then we get the internet and we obsess about those things.
9:10 Bill Simmons? Oh, that's just like poor gasoline on all of it.
9:12 Speaker 03 Right? Like, we were gonna do all of this stuff, move files around. Nah, we wanted to play Angry Birds on our phones. That's what the internet did.
9:20 Speaker 04 But when you talk to people who were like, you know, technologists or whatever, at the time, they were true believers. They really thought the internet was gonna bring us closer, not have us be alienated. You know, like you could talk to somebody in Beijing from your couch in Boston. Um, and all of those things ended up being true. It's just not how we spent our time on the internet.
9:41 Speaker 03 Well, not in, just not in the way that we thought that they were.
9:43 Speaker 04 Exactly.
9:44 Speaker 03 We, you were talking to the person in Beijing, but not to your mother. Like you're talking to the person in Moscow, but you're never in the same room with anyone. It just didn't go the way we thought it was gonna go. We thought it was gonna add to, but it replaced.
9:58 Speaker 04 Yep.
9:58 Bill Simmons? It shifted in real time, cause I was in college in the early nineties when some people were like in the computer room, starting to email and, and we were all like, what the fuck are those people doing? Like, what? And then eventually you could get information. I remember when I was in grad school, like going to the library and you could use like Nexus, Lexus, stuff like that. Um, but when I saw this movie in 94, We didn't know what the internet was gonna be because this, the net was the other movie that came out with Sandra Bullock. That's another one where they had this vision, Hollywood had this vision of what the internet was gonna be and you would have these helpers. So net, it was Mozart's ghost. And you talk, and in this movie it had that angel. And it was like this thing was gonna help you and find you and you could navigate the world with it.
10:40 Bill Simmons? And then by three years later, we had AOL and it was just like, yeah, I'm just gonna send some emails to my friends.
10:45 Speaker 03 It's funny though, but like Apple's like, Apple intelligence thing, that's the whole thing. It's like you have an assistant with you that's just kind of following you around.
10:54 Bill Simmons? Siri. Well, I wrote down, so the movie, the 2024 internet things, it kind of gets right. Angel is basically Siri. Email is basically email.
11:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:04 Bill Simmons? The video calls are now Zoom and the VR is like, actually what the metaverse is, is just the metaverse is way more interesting.
11:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:11 Bill Simmons? I think.
11:11 Speaker 03 Think it wasn't the technology that they got wrong. It was the application. It was how we would respond to it.
11:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
11:20 Speaker 03 Right? And the way that we responded to it was the way humans respond to things, which is the simplest, pettiest way. Like what could we use it for? How could it make our lives easier? How can it? But in very small ways, like literally the whole thing became, do you got games on your phone? Like, I mean, that's, and so this was, but I think, I would watch futures from the past. And I watched this one guy from like 1959 and he was, it's in black and white. He says, one day there's gonna be a device, it's gonna be in your pocket. And you're gonna be able to do all your banking, book all your travel.
11:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
11:58 Speaker 03 Do all your stuff from that device. It's like in 1959, he's saying this, and it seems like such a new world. And you have that device now and you're on Pornhub.
12:08 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
12:09 Speaker 03 You know what I mean? It's just like you have that device.
12:11 Bill Simmons? You're on Pornhub watching this movie.
12:13 Speaker 04 Exactly. Here's the thing though, um, that I think a lot of people, you know, mention when they talk about basically how the internet has developed. Like, I think when it was at its best is when there was less and less people on it, right? Where it's just like these few like niche groups, you go on your forum. You talk about your top five rappers on Questlove's, you know, rap forum.
12:34 Speaker 03 Okay, player.com.
12:35 Speaker 04 Yeah, and and keep it pushing, right? It wasn't this fraught thing, but then like the more and more people, the more ubiquitous the internet became, the worse it got. Like, that's just the reality of everything.
12:47 Bill Simmons? Well, this movie came out thirty years ago.
12:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's amazing.
12:50 Bill Simmons? And in some ways, it feels like a hundred years ago. And then in other ways, like, I don't know, this movie, this was a big deal when it came out. It was a big deal that Demi Moore and Michael Douglas were in a movie together. It was during that crazy Michael Douglas run where he, which we've talked about before, but Romance in the Stone, one and two, Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, uh, this movie, American President, Ghost in the Darkness, The Game. He's probably the most bankable, picking scripts actor we had. I don't think he was the best actor we had, but I think he had the best batting average of big market movies.
13:25 Speaker 03 He was able to develop such unique chemistry with every single female on screen.
13:31 Bill Simmons? That's the thing. That was the superpower. You're right.
13:34 Speaker 03 He was able to give you a completely different movie based upon the, he was a, in the American President, he's this charming, affable, vulnerable, most powerful man in the world.
13:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
13:51 Speaker 03 And in this, and in Fatal Attraction, he is completely overwhelmed by the woman, as he kind of is in this one.
14:00 Bill Simmons? In Basic Instinct, he's Shooter.
14:02 Speaker 03 He's Shooter. He's like, like a weird, you don't know if you should be.
14:07 Bill Simmons? The dark side.
14:08 Speaker 03 Type of, type of guy.
14:08 Bill Simmons? But he's got the dark side in this movie because she alludes to it. And then in one of the depositions, talks about like vibrators, all this stuff they did. And she's like, I know, I know, Tom. I know he, I know he keeps secrets.
14:21 Speaker 04 That's one of my favorite parts of the early part of the movie. It's like the first scene is him with his family. And it's like, he is Mr. Dad.
14:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's the most generic family scene you could have.
14:32 Speaker 04 He even makes a joke about like, oh, you didn't get the memo, I was being dad of the year or whatever. He makes a joke about it. And as soon as he gets to the office, like.
14:40 Speaker 03 Don't worry, folks. I'm Michael Douglas. I'm still horny.
14:42 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
14:42 Speaker 03 Yeah. So it's like, I'm dad of the year. I'm Mr. Wholesome, but I'm still, I still got that.
14:47 Bill Simmons? Well, they have to bring Dennis Miller into it to be like, this guy's got more ass than a rental car.
14:52 Speaker 03 But I noticed that, but it was even the slight pat on the butt of the secretary.
14:59 Bill Simmons? Which is like, one of the craziest moments of the movie. Where it's like, oh my god.
15:03 Speaker 03 Right.
15:03 Bill Simmons? You can't do that.
15:04 Speaker 03 And this is kind of like the Mad Men thing. When you would watch Mad Men back in the day.
15:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
15:10 Speaker 03 There, there's, guys would watch Mad Men and there were, there was two types of dudes that would watch it. One type of dude would watch Mad Men and he would be like, damn, I can't believe they were able to do that. And the other guy would be like.
15:21 Bill Simmons? Bring that back.
15:24 Speaker 03 Like, look how good we had it. So.
15:26 Bill Simmons? We could drink in the office at two o'clock.
15:28 Speaker 03 Drink and do it and smoke and get in, we had voluptuous women that we could say whatever we wanted to. This was the days. But you know, when you're watching the film that that's gonna come back to bite him in the ass at some point and it literally does.
15:43 Bill Simmons? And one of the reasons this movie is so funny is they circled around to the end where at the end, the assistant slaps him and it's like, oh, who thought that was a good idea? There's a lot of moments where you're just like, wow. Who thought that was a good idea? But that was the mid 90s. To me more.
16:00 Bill Simmons? So the 90s resurgence she has, which starts with Ghost, she's in A Few Good Men, Decent Proposal, and then this movie.
16:10 Speaker 03 You call it a resurgence?
16:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah, cuz she, after St. Elmo's Fire.
16:14 Speaker 03 I think it's a resurgence.
16:15 Bill Simmons? No, it's saying, she was big in the mid 80s and then she had some issues. But you look at her late 80s IMDB, it's pretty rough.
16:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:22 Bill Simmons? Ghost is the comeback. And then she, she, by the time this movie comes out, she's probably the most bankable actress we had. What's weird is it's the peak. Cuz after this, she has Scarlet Letter now and then, Striptease and The Juror and it's over. So this was the peak.
16:39 Bill Simmons? She's never looked better in a movie. She looks unbelievable in this movie. And she's really believable, I think, as the, as the, you know, calculating office temptress. It's just.
16:51 Speaker 04 It's crazy. It, cause like when you look at her in the film, it's like, alright, this is like a professional woman. And she has like a kind of inviting sort of nature to her. But then, once this woman starts talking, you realize you're dealing with a stone killer.
17:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
17:07 Speaker 04 And that just doesn't let up the entire movie. And it's not a way that I'm used to thinking about Demi Moore. Not deploying her like ferocity in that way. But she was just like, yeah, I got these people in my sights and I'm gonna kill them. And she goes about the whole movie, almost pulls it off. But that's what I was struck by. I was like, oh, you know, this is a nice lady. You know, nice lady in a, you know, Kamala Harris sort of outfit, right? And like, no, she's a, she's an assassin.
17:35 Bill Simmons? Well, that's what he had with Basic Instinct, too.
17:37 Speaker 03 Right, reference there. So, so it, it, they, uh, Demi, first, okay, so you said she never looked better in the movie. It's facts. Because I watched this on Prime Video and then afterwards it suggested striptease. And just for research purposes, I had to revisit it.
17:59 Bill Simmons? Of course.
17:59 Speaker 03 So I revisited it.
18:00 Bill Simmons? Check Kalik was fine.
18:01 Speaker 03 It goes Kalik, well, come on, man. Let, let, let the boys play, okay? Let the boys play. Um, and this is her at her, you know, striptease, she got in super great shape and it was a big deal, $12 million. She's gonna be new. This is her at her absolute, the absolute peak of, oh my God, what a ridiculously beautiful creature. The problem that Demi Moore had is that the roles that she picked after this, she started trying to prove different things.
18:26 Speaker 04 Serious, yeah.
18:27 Speaker 03 She started trying to prove different stuff. And then when the, where was it? The, you said, is it the scarlet lube or the crucible or something like that?
18:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
18:35 Speaker 03 She was going for the Oscar. They were doing all of that stuff. She never quite got there. Oddly, she might get there now, having sort of a Demi Moore resurgence as we talk about it now, with the substance and some other things. She's kind of back a little bit.
18:47 Bill Simmons? And that's.
18:48 Speaker 04 Back a little bit.
18:48 Bill Simmons? She has two lines in the first four episodes of Landman, but it's somehow second in the opening credits.
18:54 Speaker 03 That's why when Bill asked, like, she was on top of my mind because of, you know, the movie that's doing pretty well commercially. Landman. And then I had just watched her Hot Ones interview. Where she just eats these wings and she's like making fun of the dude the entire time. And I'm just like, wow, like. This is a really charismatic actress. Who, you know, she's like sixty two or something now, who like, you know, when they get to be that age, Hollywood kind of just. Alright granny, we're taking you to the side door type of thing, but like she's back in a major way. And I'm like, we need more of this.
19:28 Bill Simmons? Yeah, she. So St. Elmo's, I, I had this as my hottest take, I'll just do it now. I think my favorite parts of hers were the St. Elmo's fire part in this part. Because I think they both leaned into the side that was really unique to her. Right? She's. There, there was a sexuality to her, the not a like Kathleen Turner had it, Sharon Stone had it, but there weren't a lot of people. That had it. And it was almost like she didn't want to unleash it in too many movies. Then when like Striptease is like a terrible movie, like.
19:54 Speaker 03 So that's so.
19:54 Bill Simmons? That's the thing.
19:55 Speaker 03 Striptease was.
19:56 Bill Simmons? It's like a weird nudity comedy. I don't even know what it is.
19:59 Speaker 03 It was kind of the worst version of. Utilizing someone's sexuality in the movie. The movie was a comedy. There was no actual heat to the movie. The nudity itself seemed like a stunt.
20:14 Bill Simmons? Yeah, like.
20:15 Speaker 03 Like.
20:15 Bill Simmons? Shoehorning it in.
20:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, come to see you're nude and there's not much movie left. Underrated film of hers that I really enjoyed, we, you left out a few good men that was in, did you say a few good men?
20:25 Bill Simmons? I said it earlier, yeah, but.
20:26 Speaker 03 Um, but like people, G I Jane was a very.
20:30 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
20:31 Speaker 03 Uh. Polarizing movie at that time. But that also was a fantastic use of her physicality. And her charisma, because in that role, she was, she carried the entire movie. Early Viggo Mortensen, yeah.
20:46 Bill Simmons? She's great in About Last Night.
20:50 Bill Simmons? There's movies that I think if, like, if you're going sliding doors, movies she could have been in that she would have been awesome in. I think she would have been awesome in both Terminators. Like if she'd been in Terminator one, she'd been the perfect age. Terminator two, I think she would have gotten jacked like Linda Hamilton did. There's Kathleen Turner parts I think she would have been really good in. I think she would have been good in Romance in the Stone. Um, I think she would have been good in War of the Roses. So, yeah, you look at her IMDb and it's in a weird way like. A Few Good Men, I think, is probably her worst performance in a great movie because that Joe Galloway part is just a mess.
21:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's tough. And it's crazy because her public life, her like, she's such a big tabloid figure in terms of like who she's dating and then there's the Ashton Kutcher. She's dating a younger guy and that's like so much of the noise and the tabloid fodder around her is about her.
21:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that was the two, that's from the 2000s became.
21:42 Speaker 03 That was her, that was later on, yeah, that was her relevance.
21:44 Bill Simmons? Well, I mean, when she started dating Bruce Willis, that was about as A-listy as it got for a celebrity couple until we had Brad and Angelina. I really liked her, I think, I think her and Douglas together, it made sense in the Douglas arc. Douglas was with, you know, Kathleen Turner, strong, confident, beautiful, great actress. Glenn Close, crazy, confident actor who actually turns out to be crazy in the movie. Sharon Stone, all time irrational confidence performance, but he was always at his best, kind of playing off really strong actors like that.
22:22 Bill Simmons? But what was this movie actually about, I think is the real question? Because it's not a sexual harassment movie, it's actually this corporate intrigue thing.
22:31 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:32 Bill Simmons? And I think I had to see it like five times to understand what the plot actually was. And I'm still not positive I understand it.
22:37 Speaker 04 I think Barry Levinson, the director, producer, extraordinary, who's like, I didn't realize he's like produced. Like, he hasn't directed anything that's been like of any relevance, of like major relevance, pretty much since this. But like, he's produced a lot of like TV and like TV movies that I've enjoyed. And he does, it feels like he has opinions about corporate culture, these sort of titans of industry and what they're about. And what's funny is like when I hear Van. Talk about like the platitudes that Demise Moore is using at this like sort of shareholders meeting.
23:15 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
23:15 Speaker 04 Where she's talking about this product and it's like it's gonna bring humanity together and all of these platitudes. And I think what the message of the movie is like, it's all crap. Um, these people are just like the robber barons before them. They just wanna make money. There's nothing different about this industry, but like when you hear some of the soaring rhetoric of especially early Zuckerberg and Jobs and Jeff Bezos and these guys like they, they want the public to think that there's like this higher calling to this enterprise that they're pursuing, but realistically like what does Instagram do? They, you know, they've optimized selling us pants with seven zippers, right? Uh, Amazon makes it so that you don't have to leave your house to get toilet paper. Like, like what did they actually do to change the world?
23:59 Bill Simmons? Apple's a hardware company.
24:00 Speaker 04 You know, like what, it, it, this isn't like indoor plumbing or electricity. You know what I'm saying? Like, like the idea that these guys have done something to change humanity is, I think is BS. And I think Levinson quite presciently is like calling BS on this whole culture, like which I think is very interesting, but again, the movie is just has too much to say about too many things.
24:23 Speaker 03 Yeah. I disagree, but that's a different podcast. So what, what?
24:27 Bill Simmons? Wait, you disagree with the point?
24:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, I do.
24:29 Bill Simmons? What do you disagree with?
24:30 Speaker 03 Well, I think that guys like Jobs, like I think that there's, there's, there's a spectrum here, right?
24:36 Speaker 04 Definitely.
24:37 Speaker 03 Yeah. And, and so like, you know, Steve Jobs and Wozniak invented the personal computer, basically. Like they had a different view of the world. They took like computing out of, that changed the world.
24:51 Speaker 04 True.
24:51 Speaker 03 So like they, they took computing out of someplace where the military was doing it and put a computer like in your home. That fundamentally changed the world. And I think if anything with Steve Jobs, he was chasing that high. And I think. I'm not gonna be like, I'm not like a tech bro, but I think he kinda did it again. In many different ways.
25:14 Speaker 04 iPhone is definitely revolutionary.
25:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, but, but, but what I would say, this, the thing about this movie is, I think he's right, but I think the movie doesn't have the balls to be about what it wants to be about. I think the movie shoehorns the corporate, but obviously, it's based on.
25:31 Bill Simmons? It's based on a book, yeah.
25:32 Speaker 03 Michael Crichton book.
25:34 Speaker 04 Who's got a difficult relationship with women, to say the least.
25:37 Speaker 03 I think this, I think that this story wants to be about, it wants to be a very direct indictment of, uh, workplace culture and, uh, harassment and no means no, it's having a conversation really that we're kind of still having. We act like we, we're the first generation to have the conversation about consent. We're the first generation to have the conversation about sexual harassment.
26:03 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
26:03 Speaker 03 We're the first generation, no, it's been being had for a very, very long time. This movie kinda wants to be about that, but in order to get people to have that conversation in nineteen ninety-four.
26:14 Bill Simmons? You gotta throw a sex in there.
26:15 Speaker 03 You gotta throw a sex scene in there, and you gotta give them some half-baked internet mumbo jumbo corporate espionage to wrap it all up in, because what they're really talking about is whether or not the current workplace structures that they have can last women entering into them. Cause at the end of the movie, the lady gets the job. At the end of the movie, he gets petted on his butt, and, and his saving grace is that he's happy that a woman gets the job.
26:47 Bill Simmons? Well, the guy, the guy who creates the angel character, like one of his computer programmers, there's that scene in the middle of the movie, when he's like, she, Douglas says, she got to you, didn't he? And he's like, what do you expect? They're smarter than us. Like, of course they're gonna rule the earth. The movie's really trying to dive into some of that stuff, but pretty casually. I agree with most of what Waz said, because this ties into an idealism that existed.
27:12 Speaker 04 Yes.
27:12 Bill Simmons? In that ninety-two to ninety-five range, where it's like, Clinton takes over, we're gonna have our young, our version of JFK, right? The, all this good stuff is happening with technology. This is all, all the smart people, all the best, all the best and brightest are now gonna drift here, and we're gonna do it in Seattle, in Silicon Valley, all these different places. And people are just really optimistic about stuff. And you kind of feel it in this movie. But what you said is right, because this is ultimately be a movie about Donald Sutherland doesn't want to lose money because he's merging. And he doesn't want to lose a hundred million dollars. He wants to make as much money as possible. There's some cockamamie scheme to frame Michael Douglas's character because he fucked up the product line.
27:54 Speaker 03 But Donald.
27:55 Bill Simmons? And that's it.
27:55 Speaker 03 The only thing I would say about that is, I don't want to get bogged down, but the only thing I would say is that Donald Sutherland is the, he's the devil of the movie. The virtue of the movie lies in the engineers and the people who are trying to create something. So that would actually change stuff.
28:16 Bill Simmons? You can't put that, those chips in the CD-ROMs by hand.
28:21 Speaker 04 So, and again.
28:22 Bill Simmons? What?
28:23 Speaker 04 And we're going to get into, again, for me, what age is the best and these different things. And, you know, a lot of it is my own biases, right? I think like the engineers and the technologists that Van is talking about, like the people who are actually like, you know, the truest believers and who we would say the most meritocratic, like they deserve to be in these positions. In this world, they're not the ones who win. They're the ones who get trampled over. It's these corporate operators who end up winning. It's not the technically sound, who you would assume in this technical industry.
29:00 Bill Simmons? The creators.
29:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, the creators would be the ones, you know, reaping all the benefits. Like, no, it's the same corporate sharks who reap all of the benefits. And the way that you get ahead in this world is to maneuver, is to be a mover, be an operator and not be.
29:15 Bill Simmons? You love this.
29:16 Speaker 03 I'm wondering, is this making you uncomfortable yet, Bill?
29:19 Bill Simmons? Not at all.
29:22 Speaker 04 Well, is Bill a corporate maneuver? And Sean, is that what's happening? He's moving the chest pieces.
29:29 Speaker 03 I'm just looking right now to see when the sweat.
29:31 Bill Simmons? I'm like a D.O. Digicom.
29:36 Speaker 04 I love this idea. That Bill is the Donald Sutherland in The Ringer. He's just moving the chest pieces.
29:43 Bill Simmons? Planning a merger. Here's the plot really quickly. The CEO, Sutherland, he wants to retire after the merger. Tom Sanders, the Douglas character, he thinks he's gonna get promoted to run C.D. Rom's. Demi Moore's character Meredith comes in, no, she's running it. We have this sex scene. Harassment stuff flies back and forth.
30:05 Speaker 03 First day.
30:05 Bill Simmons? First day.
30:06 Speaker 04 First day.
30:07 Bill Simmons? Harassment stuff flies back and forth. He figures out, um, how to get his job back. And then he's being set up to be fired for cause. Somehow gets all of these incriminating things. And then challenges her. And what really happened, which I think I figured out the fifth time I watched this movie, is she had fucked up originally with the product line. And she's trying to frame him because he was the only one who would be able to eventually figure out that she had fucked up.
30:37 Speaker 03 Right.
30:37 Bill Simmons? Which of course raises the question, why even do the sexual harassment stuff? Why not just say from the get-go, you fucked up the product line? This is more than a nitpick? It's just like, how about just from the get-go, just blame him for the fact that the product line was fucked? And you don't have to like buy him the wine.
30:52 Speaker 03 I mean, I have to be honest with you, I didn't make it to the end of the movie till at least like 1998. But it's, it's, it's, I'll just be real with you. Like, I'm like, I'm, I'm serious. No, I like, no idea. It was like, okay. But they, the, the overblown way in which they go about, like, just trying to make him look incompetent is so stupid.
31:13 Bill Simmons? The most convoluted, crazy attempt.
31:16 Speaker 03 And then he becomes Ethan Hunt.
31:18 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
31:18 Speaker 03 Like, he, he legitimately goes into it, espionage, breaks into somebody's hotel room, the whole nine. The movie just becomes a whole different film. Courtroom drama film?
31:30 Bill Simmons? Yes, there's a courtroom drama.
31:31 Speaker 04 I'm a shoe lord in here.
31:32 Bill Simmons? And it's got that uh, the great lawyer character that was a very like nineteen nineties. That female attorney who's gonna use hard copy like that was basically Leslie Abramson.
31:44 Bill Simmons? Some really funny technology stuff in this movie too, that I want to get to, but we gotta take a quick break.
31:54 Bill Simmons? So the technology stuff, which is one of the reasons this became a rewatchable movie. It starts in the beginning. When the little kid is like, dad, you have an email.
32:06 Bill Simmons? Dad, there's an email. That happens, the video linkups are like, the whole concept of CD-ROMs being so incredibly important.
32:15 Speaker 04 Yeah.
32:16 Bill Simmons? I mean, when was the last time a CD-ROM existed?
32:18 Speaker 03 When AOL sent the CD-ROM.
32:22 Bill Simmons? Oh yeah.
32:22 Speaker 04 AOL seven point O.
32:24 Speaker 03 I thought it was witchcraft. I'm like, yo.
32:26 Speaker 04 Futuristic.
32:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's crazy.
32:28 Speaker 04 Just the idea that you could skip a song on a CD, like that you didn't have to press fast forward on something and like, hope that you got it, you know, right as the next song. So you just press the button and a new song would start playing was just like.
32:42 Bill Simmons? So we have. Somebody getting an email. Being ominous in a movie. Where it's like his email, somebody would go to a computer and like the score would be like.
32:55 Bill Simmons? And then. I guess they're saying the future is VR, being able to work virtually. But you have to be in some sort of crazy universe with gloves to go find your files.
33:08 Speaker 04 Reality was a big nineties obsession.
33:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah, like where's this going? It's almost like when flying cars were an obsession in the sixties.
33:14 Speaker 04 Idea that you would leave the physical world and spend so much time like sort of fully immersed in some alternate.
33:23 Bill Simmons? And not in the office, which by the way, is kind of what we, where we ended up during COVID.
33:27 Speaker 03 That's why I was gonna ask you, like, watching this during COVID when we were living in a virtual society. Like, did it?
33:35 Speaker 04 I thought, that's what I'm saying. I thought the movie was pretty good about like predicting future, just like the FaceTime element of it all, right? That's just seemed completely insane as an idea.
33:45 Bill Simmons? Which they stole from Total Recall. I think Total Recall invented that.
33:47 Speaker 04 Probably.
33:48 Bill Simmons? Remember the FaceTime on the TV?
33:49 Speaker 04 Yeah. Either that or the usher, you don't have to call video.
33:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah, they had that too.
33:53 Speaker 04 Um, all of the technology in this stuff, like the, you know, the digital communication, the sort of, the idea that like people would wanna leave the physical realm and like be completely lost somewhere else, whether they're doing their job or doing something else. Um, and again, just like the creeping sense that this wasn't a good thing. That's what I felt like the movie was saying to me, like, I know like this stuff seems new and exciting, but like, the movie is very skeptical.
34:25 Speaker 03 In a lot of ways, it's an art versus commerce movie.
34:27 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:27 Speaker 03 In a lot of ways, it's a, how do we break ground and use new technology to go to different frontiers?
34:35 Speaker 04 Do something cool.
34:36 Speaker 03 Right. And then who's gonna profit from it? And is it going to be done in a way that's responsible or in a way that, uh, prioritizes doing something new and different? Like, I got the Vision Pro and I played around, played around on the Vision Pro. And then, the only thing that was super awesome about it was like, you guys are making judgments. That's not what I'm gonna say. That's not what I'm gonna say. I see both of the looks on your faces.
35:01 Speaker 04 I'm just, I just wanna hear.
35:02 Speaker 03 That's not what I'm gonna say.
35:03 Bill Simmons? I'm just nervous.
35:04 Speaker 03 I'm not, I'm not gonna say that. Watching NBA games on the Vision Pro is actually super.
35:09 Bill Simmons? You could see the Lakers not play defense in a totally different way.
35:12 Speaker 03 Why you gotta do that? Like what? What, what should, you, you, you, you gotta let go, in 2025, Bill, you gotta let go of vendettas.
35:21 Bill Simmons? I just love making fun of the Lakers. How is that a vendetta?
35:25 Speaker 03 It, it happens every time.
35:26 Bill Simmons? You love making fun of shit?
35:27 Speaker 03 Like what?
35:28 Bill Simmons? I don't know. What do you like making fun of?
35:30 Speaker 03 The Celtics. But, but, but yeah, so like, but, all of the things that the Vision Pro could do, and it's a very cool piece of, but really what I'm doing is. Watching NBA games on it.
35:43 Bill Simmons? You'd be doing anyway.
35:44 Speaker 03 Doing all of that stuff, but it's more fun to do with somebody sitting right next to you.
35:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
35:50 Speaker 03 It's more fun to do with Kalika with at your crib. It's more fun to do it that way. So I think we thought that we would be doing all of this amazing stuff with this technology. And don't get me wrong, there are people are, there are people that are, but we're just kind of not. We're just kind of like passing the time with it, you know?
36:09 Bill Simmons? So Michael Creighton sold the movie rights for a million dollars before the novel was published.
36:14 Speaker 03 Wow, before the novel was published.
36:16 Speaker 04 Big dog.
36:17 Bill Simmons? In the book, the difference is.
36:18 Speaker 03 Hold on for a second. He the motherfucking man.
36:24 Speaker 03 He got a million bucks.
36:28 Bill Simmons? He's like, I have this idea, gives them the one paragraph description. They're like, here's a million dollars.
36:33 Speaker 03 Oh, that's the man. Give it up to Big Kreitz, man.
36:36 Bill Simmons? So in the book, Tom obtains enough evidence to Michael Douglas' character to overturn Meredith and Phil. And they both get fired, but the merger doesn't go through and Tom doesn't receive his promotion. And then then Meredith and Phil get better jobs somewhere else. So it's a little cynical. It's like this actually worked out for them. They're in a better spot. Fifty million dollar budget made 214 million dollars.
37:00 Speaker 03 Mammoth hit.
37:00 Speaker 04 It's a smash.
37:01 Speaker 03 Mammoth hit.
37:02 Speaker 04 In 94.
37:02 Bill Simmons? People love Michael Douglas got his dick, his dick got him in trouble again. That's like all they had to do in the commercial campaign.
37:08 Speaker 03 That's all I had to do for the trailer.
37:10 Speaker 04 I'm telling you.
37:11 Bill Simmons? Get that 399 rental going.
37:13 Speaker 03 Story of the movie was so robust, like the story around the premise of the movie. It was like a, it was one of those things.
37:22 Bill Simmons? It was literally, it's legitimately controversial.
37:24 Speaker 03 Like one of those things that.
37:25 Bill Simmons? The book was too.
37:26 Speaker 03 They were talking about like on the Today Show. They were talking about it in. This is actually a movie where a woman sexually harasses a man. I'll say something about Demi Moore. Is casting that part.
37:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
37:39 Speaker 03 Is really, really. To make it believable, the actress that has to play.
37:44 Bill Simmons? Well, we have a great casting what if for it because somebody else was supposed to get it. So we'll talk about that later.
37:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, her sexual magnetism has to be like.
37:52 Speaker 03 But also the strength that she can dominate a man and turn healed.
37:58 Bill Simmons? It's a great part.
37:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:00 Bill Simmons? Creighton was saying that the reason he did it this way was because everyone would know the other way. If it was the female that was being sexually harassed, it's like people, the flipping it.
38:10 Speaker 04 Oh, that's what he said?
38:11 Bill Simmons? Was made him. Well, that's I'm just reporting.
38:14 Speaker 04 So.
38:14 Bill Simmons? He said the flipping it was what made it interesting because it made people kind of reevaluate what sexual harassment was.
38:20 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean.
38:21 Bill Simmons? But it's also what made it so controversial.
38:23 Speaker 04 I've never read the book, talking to Sean outside before we came in here. He's like, the book is a little bit less ambiguous. It's like this woman is pure evil.
38:32 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
38:32 Speaker 04 And she's come to ruin this, this poor great dad's life.
38:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
38:37 Speaker 04 Whereas the movie, I don't think.
38:38 Bill Simmons? Which is very similar to the Fatal Attraction theme.
38:40 Speaker 04 I don't think the movie is that two D. I think this character is a little bit more three D in terms of her ambitions and.
38:47 Speaker 03 At the end.
38:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:48 Speaker 03 Throughout the, throughout the, the, at the end, they, they humanize her a little bit, but. Throughout the, she is straight up Lucifer incarnate. She lying and then even when they catch her in the lie, she doesn't pivot back. She doesn't say, my bad for lying.
39:05 Speaker 04 She doubles down.
39:06 Speaker 03 She, she, yeah, like, then at the end, you start to realize that she kind of is a woman. That's getting grinded up in the boys' club.
39:16 Speaker 04 Yeah.
39:16 Speaker 03 And is trying to survive it.
39:17 Speaker 04 This, like, again, that's why I think the movie's a little bit more three dimensional. Um, I think what they're trying to say is like, there's no other way to be a CEO. Like, the way that you are one of these corner office executives is like, if somebody crosses you, you kill them. That's it. And you bring the power of the institution to bear on that person. You rally your big dogs around you and you kill them. And that's what she tried to do. And I think to me, the movie is just saying, this is exactly what a man would do in this position. There's like quotes where there's like, when did I have the power?
39:50 Speaker 03 Right.
39:51 Speaker 04 She had the power, like, the movie is making.
39:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah, when he starts yelling at the man. That's one of the funniest sins. He goes at the man, hey, come on down here, I have the power.
40:05 Speaker 04 Yeah.
40:06 Bill Simmons? Uh, Roger Ebert, not impressed by this movie.
40:08 Speaker 04 Really?
40:09 Bill Simmons? Two stars.
40:10 Speaker 04 Wow.
40:10 Bill Simmons? He wrote, "It is an exercise in pure cynicism with little respect for its subject or for its thriller plot, which I defy anyone to explain. The theme is basically a launchpad for sex scenes. And yet, the movie is so sleek, so glossy, so filled with possessor porn that you can enjoy it like a sharper image catalog that walks and talks."
40:30 Speaker 04 Jesus Christ. He was not feeling this.
40:33 Speaker 03 Insanely well-written. I'll tell you this, though. Watching the movie now, it is with just everything in the way things are now and like kind of where I'm at. It is very un-horny. I mean, it's horny at the beginning.
40:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
40:47 Speaker 03 But it, for all intents and purposes, blows its whole wad after that scene. And then there is no more sexuality in the movie whatsoever. And that is the entire rest of the movie. This movie isn't in any way, to me, an erotic thriller. It has a-
41:05 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it doesn't throw in like the sex scene with his wife where he starts to get carried away in it or nothing.
41:11 Speaker 03 The triple horn sex scene?
41:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah, nothing.
41:12 Speaker 03 Like, none of that stuff happens that the rest of the erotic thrillers all have. It doesn't exist in this one.
41:22 Bill Simmons? All right, we're going to most re-watchable scenes. Today's the most re-watchable scene brought to by Paramount Plus. This holiday season, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to watch every Mission Impossible on Paramount Plus. They might do this. Catch up on the greatest action franchise of all time, starring Tom Cruise, of course. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. All right, re-watchable scenes.
41:43 Speaker 03 I'll do that right after I finish watching everything Taylor Sheridan has ever made, every second of it.
41:49 Speaker 04 I'm right there with you.
41:50 Bill Simmons? Are you caught up on Landman?
41:51 Speaker 03 No, not yet.
41:52 Bill Simmons? Landman's great.
41:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
41:53 Bill Simmons? All right, first re-watchable scene. Tom finds out he might be out of a job. Just throwing that in there. Second one. Tom and Meredith see each other for the first time, read into Douglas angrily talking, telling his staff about it.
42:07 Speaker 05 Goddamn Garvin. What happened? I didn't get it. What? You're not the new VP?
42:11 Speaker 01 He announced it.
42:12 Speaker 05 It was some kind of secret. Meanwhile, he's got her installed up there in the office. They're bouncing back and forth like it's the fucking Tonight Show. Who? Meredith Johnson. Who's Meredith Johnson? This isn't gonna affect the spinoff, is it? This is a technical division. She doesn't know the difference between a software and a cashmere sweater. Hey, come on now, what aren't you telling us? Hey, I might be out of a job, Lewin. How about that? Is that enough? You know what it's like out there? He did say something about the spinoff. They didn't tell me about me. You think they're gonna tell me about the goddamn spinoff?
42:37 Bill Simmons? Which features some of the funniest workplace banter.
42:40 Speaker 04 So good.
42:41 Bill Simmons? You can't even believe it.
42:42 Speaker 04 It's so good.
42:43 Bill Simmons? You can't, it's just like, you're watching it going, oh my god, like, there's 19 different lines in this scene that would be an HR violation.
42:52 Speaker 04 100%. Um, I had that as a rewatchable scene, when he realizes he got passed over, and he goes and tells his, like, sort of, team or whatever, and they just start, basically, debating feminism. Right, out of nowhere.
43:05 Speaker 05 Hey, let me guess, uh, she's attractive?
43:08 Speaker 01 What does that have to do with anything?
43:09 Speaker 05 Great rack, nipples like pencil erasers? She's attractive, yeah, she's very attractive. You think she's sleeping with Garvin? That's why he bought the Nordic track. You know, it's a curse to be me, life holds no surprises.
43:20 Speaker 01 This is such a cliche.
43:21 Speaker 05 Oh, come on, Hunter, how do you think a cliche becomes a cliche?
43:25 Speaker 01 You mean, like, size doesn't matter?
43:28 Speaker 05 I have such a thing for you, Hunter. All right, all right, please, can we get some work done here?
43:34 Speaker 04 That's what they're doing, they're going back and forth, and Dennis Miller's like, you know, the typical guy, like, making his snide-
43:40 Bill Simmons? He's doing the eyes cracking.
43:41 Speaker 04 Dennis Miller is the avatar for the cool chick in the office.
43:44 Bill Simmons? Yes.
43:45 Speaker 04 Who can-
43:45 Bill Simmons? She can talk like the guy.
43:46 Speaker 04 And also, just like, the avatar for, like, the new American workplace. There's, like, this woman who is an engineer, and she went to school for it, and she knows her stuff just as well as anybody else, but she's explaining to her male colleagues the difficulties of being a woman in these environments, and everybody being like, yeah, get over it, whatever. I, I love that scene.
44:09 Bill Simmons? Next scene. Tom goes to have a drink with Meredith.
44:13 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:14 Bill Simmons? Stop by the office around 7:00. Picked out a bottle of wine for us.
44:18 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:20 Bill Simmons? The radar gun I had for dummy in this scene.
44:23 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:25 Bill Simmons? A raw, this Chapman range. It's like she's on 108.
44:28 Speaker 03 It's nuts.
44:29 Bill Simmons? 108. She's so good in this scene.
44:31 Speaker 03 I say, cause there's no nudity in the scene.
44:33 Bill Simmons? No.
44:34 Speaker 03 It is the hottest, non-nude sex scene ever.
44:39 Bill Simmons? Wow.
44:40 Speaker 03 It, it's, there's, there's no.
44:42 Bill Simmons? We'll be back on the Mr. Skin Podcast after this.
44:46 Speaker 03 Been a member since nine.
44:49 Speaker 03 Been a member for a long time, but it's, it, and it's, and maybe it shouldn't be. Cause I think that's part of the scene. Part of the scene is that if those roles are reversed, you're not in any way supposed to find that appealing. If those roles are reversed and it's the man that is pushing up, the scene is kind of an indictment of the viewer in a way too. Because, because she's being so aggressive and she won't take no for an answer. The honest, the honestly, there's a part of that that is.
45:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
45:22 Speaker 03 It, that there's a part of that that's hot. And so you're supposed to feel a little nasty after you realize that this is a married guy.
45:32 Bill Simmons? Well, you know, they have their history though too, because she's playing the history piece of it. Like, come on, for old times sake.
45:37 Speaker 03 And I think why I find the movie to be interesting is that the way they deployed is that like Michael Douglas kind of wants it. That's, that's what I think complicates this whole thing.
45:50 Bill Simmons? And I'll listen to your problems. He's like, alright, I'll rub your shoulders.
45:53 Speaker 03 You know, he's like. But there's a familiarity there to where it wasn't coming from someone whose shoulders he's never rubbed before.
45:59 Bill Simmons? 100%.
46:00 Speaker 03 Right.
46:00 Bill Simmons? And he just keeps going and going and going. Well, you left out the part, she's like, let me see some photos of the fam and he's showing her and she says something, he goes, well, she never lost the weight from the second baby.
46:11 Speaker 03 She just straight up, she just straight up, no, she straight up looks at her and goes, she looks like she always keeps food in the refrigerator. I'm like, God damn.
46:19 Bill Simmons? Killer, killer.
46:20 Speaker 03 She's like, the only thing in my refrigerator is a bottle of champagne and an orange. I'm like, okay, you trying to say my wife fat?
46:26 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Then she starts doing the remember all the things we did.
46:29 Speaker 06 I think it's gonna be a bit inhibiting. What's that? Domesticity. Oh, you'd be surprised. Well, I don't imagine you can jump her from behind just because all of a sudden you get excited by the way she bends down to pick up the soap. You remember that, don't you?
46:46 Speaker 06 Yeah, I remember that. And you miss it.
46:51 Speaker 05 I have my compensations.
46:53 Speaker 06 Of course you do. Life's a series of trade offs. Isn't that what you tell yourself?
46:56 Speaker 05 But I wouldn't trade what I have if that's what you're saying.
46:58 Speaker 06 I wouldn't want you to. It's exactly why I could trust you.
47:03 Speaker 06 You have a lot more to lose than I do.
47:06 Bill Simmons? And then uh-
47:07 Speaker 03 That was a very common trope back in the day. Like, old, old-
47:10 Bill Simmons? Old girlfriend, yeah. The old flame starts-
47:12 Speaker 03 Remember the ice cubes and all of that stuff, yeah.
47:15 Bill Simmons? So then we just get going and a lot of dirty talk. Doesn't really work out. We do get, uh, this is, Ben, I had, Waz knows I'm gonna do this. We have this, we have Single Weight Female.
47:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
47:30 Bill Simmons? Which are in the, in the finals of guy getting a blowjob pretending he doesn't want one, but he's also enjoying it. And started doing, "Oh, no! No! Oh, no! No! Oh, no! No!"
47:45 Bill Simmons? Single, I think Single Weight Female's better.
47:47 Speaker 03 It's better because he-
47:48 Bill Simmons? Because he knows who it is. He's like, "Ah, I'll finish."
47:52 Speaker 03 But then after, but after the Single Weight Female, he gets-
47:55 Bill Simmons? He's a shoe in the eye.
47:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, he gets angry. He gets like self righteous.
47:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:00 Speaker 03 "Oh, you don't have to tell her, cuz I'm gonna tell her." Yeah, you're gonna tell your girlfriend the next day that her roommate gave you a blowjob, but you didn't know it was her.
48:10 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
48:10 Speaker 03 Good luck, dawg.
48:11 Speaker 04 You knew it was me.
48:13 Bill Simmons? So he, he gets out of there. She has the classic line.
48:17 Speaker 04 Hold on, before, before that, like, the point that I love, the reason why he stops, he somehow looks at his reflection in like a glass or something. He's like, it's that classic like-
48:29 Bill Simmons? Like a wild animal, yeah.
48:30 Speaker 04 Looking in the mirror and he's just like, "Oh."
48:32 Speaker 03 Easiest gray shot Gordo of all time.
48:33 Speaker 04 "What am I doing?" You know, he's like, "What am I doing?" And then he stops and yeah, she, some of the-
48:40 Bill Simmons? You stick your dick in my mouth and then you get an attack of morality?
48:45 Speaker 03 Good line. It's a good line.
48:48 Bill Simmons? He responds, I have a family now.
48:50 Speaker 03 I'm a, yeah.
48:51 Bill Simmons? What?
48:53 Bill Simmons? You get back here and you finish what you started. That scene is, is fucking batshit crazy.
48:57 Speaker 03 She is.
48:58 Bill Simmons? It is batshit crazy.
48:59 Speaker 03 She walks out.
49:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah, with her bra.
49:02 Speaker 03 It's Demi, she's in her bra, she's leaning over, she's.
49:06 Bill Simmons? Get back here.
49:07 Speaker 03 The hottest, guys, there's no other way to say it. The hottest woman in Hollywood at the time, you could maybe make an argument for Sharon Stone or whomever, whatever. Begging, begging for a guy to come back into the office and have disgusting nasty sex with her. It's just an unbelievably magnetic scene.
49:29 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
49:30 Speaker 03 And she's, and, and if you're Demi Moore, you gotta give it all to that scene.
49:33 Bill Simmons? She's great. Next rewatchable, Dennis Miller on the double date with Douglas. Just blowing, blowing his cover.
49:42 Speaker 03 Unbelievable.
49:43 Bill Simmons? Doing Dennis Miller lines. You see, this is my big shot asshole. It's not like I'm getting scouted by the NBA.
49:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:48 Bill Simmons? It's like, I don't know if they just let him write all his lines. They all sound like things Dennis Miller said.
49:53 Speaker 03 Who got to you?
49:54 Bill Simmons? And then the wife sticks up for him.
49:55 Speaker 03 I love that.
49:56 Bill Simmons? So he told me.
49:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:58 Bill Simmons? So let's, let's just have a nice evening. It's like, I'm pretty sure the evening's been ruined.
50:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:02 Bill Simmons? Um, and then.
50:03 Speaker 03 She's a ride or die. We love it.
50:04 Bill Simmons? And then that also leads to, uh, Tom getting mad at, mad at her after, about the whole thing and.
50:10 Speaker 03 So that was, that was one of my, like, when he actually comes clean to his wife and she just, like, goes down the list of like, how much of a fuck up this guy is.
50:19 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
50:20 Speaker 03 She's reading him the riot act. I, I just thought that was very well done.
50:24 Bill Simmons? He does, his response is, sexual harassment is about power. When did I have the power?
50:32 Bill Simmons? Barry Levinson outro music, next scene.
50:34 Speaker 03 Let's go.
50:36 Bill Simmons? Tom's sexual harassment deposition.
50:40 Bill Simmons? It's hilarious.
50:42 Speaker 04 That lawyer dude.
50:44 Bill Simmons? Yes.
50:45 Speaker 04 Is excellent.
50:46 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's got the lawyer dude, yeah.
50:49 Speaker 03 Both lawyers, very smart in that situation. He has a female lawyer.
50:54 Speaker 04 Yes.
50:54 Speaker 03 And she has the typical old male boys' club lawyer.
50:59 Bill Simmons? So would a gynecologist get an erection when he sees?
51:02 Speaker 04 Great question.
51:03 Bill Simmons? Just like, oh, just playing all the hits. That's a very squirmy scene. And then Meredith's deposition.
51:10 Speaker 03 Baby.
51:10 Bill Simmons? When they find the 91 Paul Meyer.
51:13 Speaker 06 I said to get an ice Chardonnay, I remembered that Tom liked white wine.
51:17 Speaker 05 From those trips to Napa, that he was sort of an amateur wine connoisseur and that he would be impressed by an ice bottle.
51:23 Speaker 06 Yes.
51:24 Speaker 05 Do you remember the wine?
51:26 Speaker 06 No.
51:28 Speaker 05 The 91 Paul Meyer?
51:31 Speaker 06 Yes, that's right.
51:32 Speaker 05 Do you know where your assistant got that wine?
51:36 Speaker 06 I assume that she got it from the liquor store down the street.
51:39 Speaker 05 Would it surprise you to know, Ms. Johnson, that there isn't a single liquor store in Seattle that carries that bottle?
51:46 Speaker 06 Mrs. Ross is very resourceful.
51:49 Speaker 05 Very resourceful. A bottle of wine you can't find within 500 miles of Seattle.
51:56 Speaker 06 I have no idea where she got the bottle of wine.
51:59 Speaker 05 Isn't it true, Ms. Johnson, that you told Mrs. Ross three weeks ago that you wanted a bottle of the 91 Paul Meyer for your meeting with Mr. Sanders?
52:09 Speaker 06 That's not true.
52:10 Speaker 05 And when she couldn't find it, you said, oh, what was that? It had such managerial brio. Oh, here it is. If you don't find the wine, find a replacement.
52:25 Bill Simmons? And they realize it's not sold within 500 miles or whatever. That's really good.
52:30 Speaker 04 A bit of like a baby wine guy. I was proud of that moment. It's like, how were you gonna get a wine from four years ago or three years ago, whatever it was at your local store three days ago?
52:40 Speaker 03 But see, that's.
52:42 Bill Simmons? Good legal stuff.
52:44 Speaker 03 That's the legal stuff. That's the courtroom drama stuff.
52:47 Bill Simmons? The next one is when he finally somehow gets the tape, which we'll talk about later in Nipex. And.
52:55 Bill Simmons? And they play the tape and she knows she's cooked.
52:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:58 Bill Simmons? And then she turns into femme fatale.
53:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:01 Bill Simmons? Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs. Alvarez? It's like, oh, okay, we're going here now.
53:05 Speaker 03 Like, literally, like.
53:07 Bill Simmons? Sometimes no means the person wants to be overwhelmed.
53:10 Speaker 03 That's the, that's the equivalent.
53:12 Bill Simmons? We're recording this.
53:13 Speaker 03 That's the equivalent of the Sharon Stone interrogation scene.
53:17 Bill Simmons? Hundred percent.
53:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:19 Bill Simmons? And then she has the big speech, which Craig's gonna play now.
53:22 Speaker 06 Well, when he really wanted to stop, he didn't seem to have any problems doing it, did he?
53:26 Speaker 05 And that's when you got angry.
53:28 Speaker 06 Of course I got angry. So would anyone.
53:30 Speaker 05 Don't we tell women that they can stop at any point?
53:32 Speaker 06 Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs. Alvarez?
53:35 Speaker 05 Up until the moment of actual penetration.
53:37 Speaker 06 The point is, he was willing. That tape doesn't change anything.
53:40 Speaker 05 The point is, you control the meeting. You set the time, you order the wine, you lock the door, you demanded service, and then you got angry when he didn't provide it. So you decided to get even, to get rid of him with this trumped up charge. Ms. Johnson, the only thing you have proven is that a woman in power can be every bit as abusive as a man.
54:02 Speaker 06 You want to put me on trial here? Let's at least be honest about what it's for. I am a sexually aggressive woman. I like it. Tom knew it and you can't handle it. It is the same damn thing since the beginning of time. Veil it, hide it, lock it up, and throw away the key. We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still a hundred years ago. Well, no, thank you.
54:26 Bill Simmons? We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still a hundred years ago. Well, no, thank you.
54:34 Speaker 04 Classic. So good.
54:37 Bill Simmons? And for me, we still haven't hit the best scene in the movie yet because we get Tom sneaking into the hotel room to get the VR files. And all of a sudden, this becomes a Star Trek movie for five minutes.
54:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:48 Bill Simmons? And it's VR. He almost falls over into the VR cliff.
54:52 Speaker 03 You know what's funny?
54:53 Bill Simmons? The special effects are so bad. And then the Demi Moore 3D avatar jump scare.
54:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:59 Bill Simmons? I don't know where she comes in, like.
55:00 Speaker 03 She's in the system. Oh, my God!
55:01 Bill Simmons? She's doing it in the files!
55:04 Speaker 03 It's the fucking lawnmower, man. Even when I fucking wa- when I watch that scene, when I watch that scene, I'm thinking, look how.
55:14 Speaker 03 Like heroin that is, he almost falls off the thing. I do that for fun at home. It's a game on the Oculus called Frank's.
55:21 Speaker 04 You got the Oculus and the Vision Pro?
55:23 Speaker 03 I'll go in, baby. It is called Frank's Plank Adventure and the funniest thing is like watching people play it. Because you're walking across a plank between two gigantic skyscrapers, but you're in the VR. So the people that are walking across your living room are legitimately doing like this. They're scared. Some people cry and get down. So all of that technology, we use it for bullshit.
55:50 Speaker 04 Right.
55:50 Speaker 03 I'm telling you, we use it to have a good time with it.
55:53 Bill Simmons? Not to get files?
55:55 Speaker 03 Not to get files and change the world and espionage with the angels and all of that stuff.
56:01 Speaker 04 Make sure you don't get fired from your company.
56:03 Bill Simmons? Shout out to, uh, Demi Moore's, I'm angrily using my computer face.
56:08 Speaker 04 Yeah. She's fired up.
56:11 Bill Simmons? Um, I love that scene. It's so stupid. I also love, I had this in what's age the best. This device that really was only in the nineties when somebody needed to get into somebody's hotel room and they would just call them like, "Hey, I need my roommate up. It's 311." And like, "Sure thing, sir." And then you just walk into the room and the maid's like, "Hello, sir." I promise this doesn't work in real life.
56:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's the room. I, I, I always have questions about this because I wonder, like.
56:36 Bill Simmons? Could anyone do this? Because they do it in Pacific Heights too. Melanie Griffith gets in there.
56:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, like people could get in their rooms and the security thing to be lax.
56:44 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
56:45 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, if room service is doing your room, the door is just open. How do they know who's actually staying there?
56:52 Bill Simmons? The big stockholder meeting showdown. Demi gets fired.
56:56 Speaker 04 Yeah, tough.
56:57 Bill Simmons? Unrealistic but fun to watch. And then, uh, the ending. Stephanie gets the job. Turns out she was a friend all along.
57:04 Speaker 04 Who could have saw that coming?
57:05 Bill Simmons? Counting on you to be my right hand, Tom.
57:09 Speaker 03 We haven't even talked about.
57:10 Bill Simmons? Talks about the son.
57:11 Speaker 03 The a friend.
57:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Are you chemistry major? Yeah, I am. Happy music. Tom's got his job back and his family's still there. Demi Moore's out of a job.
57:21 Speaker 03 And women won. There's one scene you're leaving out.
57:25 Bill Simmons? Okay.
57:26 Speaker 03 By far the most hilarious scene in the movie. It's not even close. This is the funniest scene in the movie. The dream sequence.
57:34 Bill Simmons? I had that in What Stage's the Worst, cuz I hate it. Donald Sutherland making a move on him.
57:38 Speaker 04 Bro.
57:39 Bill Simmons? So good.
57:41 Speaker 03 That is so funny.
57:42 Speaker 04 What is that suit man?
57:43 Speaker 03 What is that suit man out of Tom? And all of a sudden, Tom is, he's grabbing Tom.
57:48 Speaker 04 Dude, his, his mouth is wide open. His tongue is sticking out into the camera.
57:52 Bill Simmons? It's brutal.
57:53 Speaker 03 And then hit Tom.
57:53 Bill Simmons? It's a good jump scare.
57:54 Speaker 03 Ah!
57:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
57:57 Bill Simmons? So what do we have for most rewatchable?
58:00 Speaker 03 Oh, come on.
58:01 Bill Simmons? Oh, I know Vance answered.
58:02 Speaker 04 This is the sex scene.
58:03 Bill Simmons? Okay.
58:04 Speaker 04 It is. I mean, it made Vance mixtape for a reason.
58:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:07 Bill Simmons? I love the VR hotel room. Makes me laugh.
58:09 Speaker 03 It is very funny as well.
58:11 Bill Simmons? That was today's most rewatchable scene brought to you by Paramount Plus. This holiday season, make it your mission to watch every Mission Impossible on Paramount Plus. Every dangerous secret, every heart pounding chase, every impossible jaw dropping stunt. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. We're gonna take a break and come back in a second.
58:34 Bill Simmons? Next category. What's the most 1994 thing about this movie? Other than all the sexual harassment and workplace stuff that we talked about? I'll give you some nominees.
58:41 Speaker 04 Sure.
58:42 Bill Simmons? Dad, you got an email! There's one. The Jeep Cherokee.
58:47 Speaker 04 Ben doesn't read your emails to you out loud.
58:50 Bill Simmons? The Jeep Cherokee is very 1990s.
58:52 Speaker 03 Super. It was the dream car for me at the time.
58:53 Bill Simmons? 1990 Seattle? Put me in the Shawn Kemp singles.
58:57 Speaker 03 They had literally a ghost.
58:59 Bill Simmons? Early Starbucks, yeah. Dennis Miller, just being cast as an actor, working as a computer programmer in Michael Douglas's group. Oh, I, we have him coming up later.
59:08 Speaker 04 I enjoyed it.
59:09 Bill Simmons? Uh, but I think the casual sex harassment. Him's hitting the assistant with the files on her butt. Great job. I think that's the single most 1994 thing about the movie.
59:18 Speaker 04 It's, is that, and it's just the way that they're talking about sex. Is this a way that we just don't do that in public ever? Um, these days.
59:27 Bill Simmons? Well, Van thinks it's coming back.
59:29 Speaker 03 I think it is too. As far, as far, as long as we get the crack Horobek's out of the way, so we can have fun.
59:34 Bill Simmons? I know. The fun, the fun police. What's age the best, speaking of Dennis Mower. I like when movies bring in comedians, and this was a great Dennis Mower. This is my favorite stretch of Dennis Mower. I loved his HBO show. I liked when he's in this. I liked when he's in the net.
59:50 Speaker 03 He was in the net too, yeah.
59:51 Bill Simmons? But I like when they bring the people in and just let them kind of cook as themselves.
59:56 Speaker 03 Hey, the thing was, hey, this movie's not very funny.
1:00:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:01 Speaker 03 Just come in for four, five scenes.
1:00:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:05 Speaker 03 Give us a little funny, get your check, go home.
1:00:07 Bill Simmons? She doesn't give you a boner because she's definitely giving me lift off. Just like all these like cliched Dennis Mowers just rip them off. They were really smart when Meredith shows up for this or another What's Age the Best of making Tom kind of undercutting him. Like they have that one part when he sits at the table and he's in the smallest chair. She makes fun of his tie and he kind of looks down like he's just off balance for the first five minutes.
1:00:32 Speaker 03 In the small chair, that's another funny scene in the movie.
1:00:35 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
1:00:36 Speaker 03 And he's just below everyone.
1:00:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:38 Speaker 03 He was starting the day because this takes place over like a week.
1:00:41 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:00:42 Speaker 03 So he's starting the day on a high.
1:00:44 Speaker 04 And we know this because they start each day with Monday.
1:00:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:00:49 Bill Simmons? It's like The Shining.
1:00:50 Speaker 03 He, uh, he, he starts the day on such a high and he just gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller throughout the day.
1:00:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I have a couple more. Do you have any What's Age the Best?
1:01:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, for me, it's definitely like the corporate culture portrayal. Um, the Dylan Baker character on Philip Blackburn.
1:01:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:01:10 Speaker 04 Like that like typical corporate blunt instrument machine where like he, he's just not a human being. He's just a freaking automaton, basically. Like for instance, like Van comes into our office. Whenever he's here, he's like humanizing the situation. Let's talk, let's engage, let's have some human connection.
1:01:30 Bill Simmons? This is nice. This is a nice moment for you guys.
1:01:32 Speaker 04 It's what happens. This, this movie shows you what the typical corporate culture is, which is like leave your humanity at the freaking door. Um, and I thought that that's, for me, that's what aged the best, um, about the movie.
1:01:45 Speaker 03 The, the conversation about consent.
1:01:49 Speaker 03 When they had it was like verbatim, the conversations that we ended up. They literally have a conversation in the movie about living consent. That the idea that consent is born at any time and it dies at any time. And when we started having that conversation again, when I say we, I mean us as a society, during the Me Too movement. It was sometimes positions as if it was the first time, like I said before, that that conversation had ever been had. And it wasn't. And so when I saw that, I was like, you know, it might be good for us to remind ourselves that we've been talking about this stuff for a long time. And maybe you don't put it on any specific generation or any specific group of people.
1:02:34 Speaker 03 And you remember that these things are things that we're socially legislating and we should continue to socially legislate them.
1:02:41 Bill Simmons? But this was, this was a nineties movie thing though. And we did like Wesley and I did Philadelphia for rewatchable, the same thing. It was like Hollywood knowing there are these big, important topics that they needed to hit. Being super clumsy about it, but hitting a bunch of it anyway. And then other parts where you're like, oh, why'd they do that?
1:02:58 Speaker 04 So that's, that's another thing to Van's point that I think the movie does a good job of predicting this sort of white male angst where like the identitarian way that we do everything now.
1:03:12 Bill Simmons? Like that guy on the train in the beginning.
1:03:14 Speaker 04 100%. And he's talking about, oh, they got like women in the workplace or all of that, all of these anxieties to the point where, you know, when Tom is yelling at his, uh, his wife in the, in the kitchen. And he literally says, I'm that evil, white, straight male. Like this is, they're predicting the freaking discourse that's happening over and over and over again in our current society about like, you know, the white, straight male being basically like the devil's avatar, right? Um, this movie's doing that, predicting that.
1:03:44 Bill Simmons? He's looking at me for it.
1:03:51 Bill Simmons? More would say it's the best. The elevator opening in Demi Moore. And she just goes, going down.
1:03:58 Speaker 03 Bro.
1:03:59 Bill Simmons? And he doesn't know whether he should get in or not. She's had just a couple of great entrances with her.
1:04:06 Bill Simmons? I really love the sneaking into somebody's hotel room to get information. And then juxtapos with the person on their way up to the room and not knowing if they're gonna get out in time. Yeah, that always works for me. I also, I'm always into the
1:04:21 Bill Simmons? the guy who comes home after obviously some sort of adultery moment has happened, it's like, I'm just gonna take a quick shower.
1:04:26 Speaker 03 Bruh.
1:04:28 Bill Simmons? If I came home, barely talked to my wife, I was like, just quick shower, I'll be right back. My wife would be like, what the hell happened? I'm checking you for scratch marks.
1:04:35 Speaker 03 This is one of my biggest nitpicks. D Ray Davis, shout out D Ray Davis. D Ray Davis has a ridiculously funny standup bit about this. He goes, if you're gonna, if you're gonna be out there, you'll be cheating on your girl, messing around with your girl. You just gotta need to take showers all the time.
1:04:51 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:04:53 Bill Simmons? Just dang it at 10 o'clock every night.
1:04:55 Speaker 03 Take showers all the time, random times.
1:04:56 Bill Simmons? Establish an alibi.
1:04:58 Speaker 03 And you get in the shower and she asks you about it, you could be like, girl, I take showers all the time.
1:05:02 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:05:03 Speaker 03 But he comes home, he goes, he sends her on an errand. He's like, go get me a beer. So get away from the stink of Meredith.
1:05:11 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:05:11 Speaker 03 And the smell of wine on my breath. And the Wolverine scar I got, I'm gonna get in the shower.
1:05:16 Bill Simmons? Well, and also, there's some good filmmaking in this movie, cuz he's in the shower and he's got the scratch marks. And then the wife comes in. And he's just like, and then he has to get out, he has the towel, and it's just, it's, he's just trying to hide the scratches for two minutes. It's compelling.
1:05:32 Speaker 03 And then you think.
1:05:34 Bill Simmons? Why are you wearing a t-shirt?
1:05:35 Speaker 03 You know that he's ended up to his ears and the wife goes, who's Meredith? And you're like, oh my god, what? And she goes, Meredith just called and you, hey dog, think of something. Like, think of something to say. That whole scene is really good.
1:05:53 Bill Simmons? Here's a, yeah, that's it. That's all I got. Cause we talked about the other stuff. The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most giftable moment. I honestly, the Demi Moore Evil 3D Avatar, I might have to start working into stuff.
1:06:07 Speaker 04 There was one, there's a moment at the end where, um, at the last board meeting where he basically lays out the case that she, you know, is an idiot and incompetent. She's the one that actually needs to be fired and he mouths the words bye bye to her.
1:06:22 Bill Simmons? Oh, that would be a good one.
1:06:23 Speaker 04 That'd be a nice.
1:06:24 Speaker 03 I gotta go.
1:06:24 Bill Simmons? Should I send that to the Lakers fan blog? After they give up 40 today to Atlanta?
1:06:29 Speaker 03 Like, I, I, mine is when she, uh, is leaning over the balcony when she just comes out of the room and she's going like, get back here.
1:06:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:06:40 Speaker 03 That's mine.
1:06:41 Bill Simmons? Okay. Just for, just for your own personal pleasure?
1:06:43 Speaker 03 No, I'm just saying that's a good gift.
1:06:44 Bill Simmons? Great shot order award, most cinematic shot. You already did it. I do like the escalator scene when they have the tape and they're going up and Demi Moore kinda knows something's up. And they ride up, they're going up and then you see them behind and she's just kinda like, hmm.
1:06:57 Speaker 04 I, uh, uh, there's another shot for me. It's like her first scene in the movie, like, um, before we see her, it's just a shot of her shoes.
1:07:06 Bill Simmons? Hmm.
1:07:06 Speaker 04 And Michael Douglas like looking down and he's like, wait a second. Who the, who is this?
1:07:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:07:12 Speaker 04 And then she's revealed and then we're off to the races.
1:07:15 Bill Simmons? Den of Thieves Benihana Award, scene stealing location. That office building, which they built for the movie.
1:07:21 Speaker 04 Oh, from scratch.
1:07:21 Bill Simmons? Built from scratch, cause Levinson wanted a set that had all glass so people could see what each other was doing. And he just felt like, so they built it and, uh,
1:07:30 Speaker 04 And they still kept, they're still on a $50 million budget. They built the whole office. Did they, did they shoot in Seattle?
1:07:36 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:07:36 Speaker 04 Huh.
1:07:38 Bill Simmons? We rarely get to give out either of these awards and I'm gonna do both of them. The Elizabeth shoe is an Oxford Electrochemist Award.
1:07:47 Bill Simmons? And the Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Both goes to Meredith. She's a former Miss Teen New Mexico, now working as a higher up in Malaysian conduit for a computer technology company. I'm gonna say it's a stretch.
1:08:02 Speaker 03 Not into it.
1:08:03 Bill Simmons? No.
1:08:03 Speaker 03 We don't know what happened after, she might have went to like MIT or something.
1:08:08 Bill Simmons? Maybe.
1:08:09 Speaker 04 And again, sure. That's what, again, the movie wants you to think is like, it's not that she's some excellent worker. Um, she's an operator and a mover and like, you know, the older woman who eventually gets it, like when her and Tom are sitting there and they're watching this woman, Demi Moore's descent. And basically like, she's like, yeah, I got passed over too. I've been here longer. I'm more tenured, I'm more qualified, but this person came in and stole the show.
1:08:38 Bill Simmons? Well, here's the case for her not being good at her job. She completely fucked up the product, right? She was like, yeah, yeah, let's use the cheaper stuff and we won't tell people. And then the product got delayed. Then she comes up with this crazy scheme to frame her ex lover.
1:08:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:08:53 Bill Simmons? In a sexual harassment thing so that she could then blame it on him, I guess, for incompetence.
1:08:58 Speaker 03 Then she's, she, she's on tape visiting the line. And she can't, she acts like, she's gotta act like she's never seen.
1:09:05 Bill Simmons? Terrible, bad at her job. The Big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food or drink, the 91 bottle, 91 Palmyra, just huge.
1:09:12 Speaker 04 Perfect.
1:09:14 Bill Simmons? Okay.
1:09:15 Speaker 04 She, oh, and when she hands him the, the glass, um, and he's like, wow, you got this on deck. And she's like, I, I like to keep the boys below me happy.
1:09:28 Speaker 04 This is too good.
1:09:30 Bill Simmons? Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film. For me, we already mentioned it. I don't know why they had to do the, like, if you're actually just fundamentally looking at this as a movie, you don't need to do the sexual harassment plot. You just blame him for the CD-ROMs being fucked up, blind sign him at the end and he gets fired.
1:09:44 Speaker 03 But the reality is, if you don't do the sexual harassment plot, you.
1:09:48 Bill Simmons? You don't have a movie.
1:09:49 Speaker 03 You don't have a, you don't have a movie.
1:09:50 Bill Simmons? You don't have a poster, you don't have an ad campaign.
1:09:52 Speaker 03 I hate to say this, but the weak link of the movie is the wife.
1:09:55 Bill Simmons? Oh, I had her in What's Age The Worst.
1:09:57 Speaker 03 Really?
1:09:58 Bill Simmons? Oh, so I told Carrie when I was about to come to work today, I was like, there's a take that Van's gonna have that maybe I've worked with Van too long, but I know exactly what the take's gonna be. So go ahead.
1:10:10 Speaker 03 Like, the, the, the wife is the weak link of the movie, right? Okay, because number one. She can't really feel, she doesn't really know, she's not in Demi Moore's league. Right, and, and, and she gets it, and she understands that, but she, she doesn't really add anything in any way. She, she wants to be a ride or die, but then at the same time, she's being a nag and gag. Which we don't like.
1:10:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:10:35 Speaker 03 And then, like, she doesn't really, part of me is like, he should have gone with Demi Moore. And formed a power couple.
1:10:46 Bill Simmons? I, I have that coming up, um, something like that. My issue with her was, I didn't feel like she was pissed off enough.
1:10:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, I, I.
1:10:55 Bill Simmons? Especially the one deposition where Demi Moore is like, I remember I told him that his wife, he said his wife hadn't lost the baby weight yet.
1:11:03 Speaker 03 So if we're, if we're comparing her to Triple Horn or to, um.
1:11:07 Bill Simmons? Triple Horn's another one.
1:11:08 Speaker 03 Well, but, but Triple Horn was different though. Triple Horn, eh, in, in Basic Instinct, was a constant reminder of who he really was.
1:11:18 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:11:19 Speaker 03 The wife here doesn't really do that. She kind of vacillates back and forth and then she's out of the movie.
1:11:24 Bill Simmons? Doesn't seem to know his history either.
1:11:25 Speaker 04 If I have a charitable view of what the movie's trying to do with this sexual harassment thing, it's like, we think dudes are too Neanderthal in nature to understand sexual harassment at a high level. So let's turn the tables and make it a dude who's being sexually harassed and can't do anything about it. Right, and so it's like, your job and your higher ups are coming after you. And then, there's the people closest to you like, well, did you really? Like, maybe you made the person think that you kind of did want it.
1:11:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:55 Speaker 04 It's kind of sounds like you might have been.
1:11:57 Bill Simmons? Why'd you go up there?
1:11:58 Speaker 04 That's what it felt like the wife was doing, where she's like, at first she believed it, but then when she sat in the deposition, it's like, maybe you did want it, maybe that's what I felt like her role was. It's like, even the people closest to you start questioning your integrity and whether you deserved it or not.
1:12:12 Speaker 03 The Dennis Miller thought was something, I, I just be honest with you. The Dennis Miller thought was something that people have been talking about, because I remember in an actual real case, which was Mike Tyson's case with Desiree Washington. There was he like he had invited her up there. It was like two o'clock and they were gonna play board games or something like that. And none of this excuses anything, you know, that that but I remember people having the argument about.
1:12:39 Bill Simmons? Exactly.
1:12:40 Speaker 03 Why would you go to somebody's room at that time? It's a poor argument to have, but that was Dennis Miller's.
1:12:45 Bill Simmons? It was a it was a nineties argument.
1:12:47 Speaker 03 It was a nineties argument, yeah.
1:12:48 Bill Simmons? She was a little too dutiful, the wife, and a little too forgiving. Especially near the end. I just feel like there would have been a scene where.
1:12:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:12:57 Bill Simmons? Where, I don't know, she's she asked him for some coffee or he asked her for some coffee and she's just mad. She's like, why didn't you ask your whore to get the coffee?
1:13:08 Bill Simmons? And just like she just starts screaming at him for no reason, which definitely probably happened.
1:13:13 Speaker 04 As as as somebody who's been chewed out a time or two by a significant other, I tend to agree with you. Maybe a little bit too lenient.
1:13:22 Bill Simmons? Uh, what's age the worst? Just C D Rom's being a crucial plot point.
1:13:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:13:29 Bill Simmons? I had the Donald Sutherland trying to kiss me nightmare. The full circle movement uh moment where at the end the assistant slaps Michael Douglas on the ass. It's like, oh, we've come full circle. Terrible moment.
1:13:39 Speaker 03 We all do it.
1:13:40 Bill Simmons? The endings, the ending email, daddy, we miss you, a family. So corny. I would have told Levinson like, dude, let's just just end it when she's.
1:13:51 Speaker 03 The movie horseshoes that way. It starts like a Disney movie and ends like one.
1:13:55 Bill Simmons? A friend being Arthur Friend, tacky. Any other what's age the worst?
1:13:59 Speaker 04 The Sonics, man. And when I saw that ghost song, I was like.
1:14:03 Bill Simmons? That could also been a what's age the best.
1:14:04 Speaker 04 Yeah. Seattle loves the Sonics. They still do.
1:14:09 Bill Simmons? Um, the Ruffle of Hannah Rubinek Partridge, overacting word. Douglas wins it multiple times.
1:14:14 Speaker 04 You think it's Douglas?
1:14:15 Bill Simmons? Who do you think it is?
1:14:16 Speaker 04 Donald Sutherland. He's too cartoonishly evil.
1:14:20 Bill Simmons? What about him yelling at when he's yelling at his wife and he and he yells at the maid, come on down here.
1:14:25 Speaker 04 Listen, it's white male rage. I don't think that's that's.
1:14:29 Bill Simmons? So you go southern.
1:14:30 Speaker 04 I go southern because in that scene where they're talking about crushing Tom. And he's like, we want to crush him. And then he grabs his subordinate's dick.
1:14:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:14:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah, that is a moment.
1:14:41 Speaker 03 Come on, bro. I'm gonna zag. I think it's Dylan Baker. And because he is so swarmy. Yeah. He is, from the moment he steps into frame, you're like, that's the guy I'm not supposed to like.
1:14:54 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:14:55 Speaker 03 He is laying it on.
1:14:56 Bill Simmons? We're friends.
1:14:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:14:58 Bill Simmons? Was there a better title for this movie? No.
1:15:00 Speaker 03 No. Nah, it's perfect.
1:15:02 Bill Simmons? Can you dig at a word for most memorable quote?
1:15:06 Bill Simmons? I think we know what it is.
1:15:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:15:09 Speaker 03 Bill, give it to us, though.
1:15:10 Bill Simmons? The C R thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word? Mine, I already gave. I think Demi Moore's two best roles ever were sitting almost fire in this movie.
1:15:19 Speaker 04 Um, I love that take. Uh, mine is Michael Douglas and not Frank Sinatra's actually the coolest man who's ever lived.
1:15:26 Bill Simmons? Just for being able to pull off these roles over and over again?
1:15:30 Speaker 03 I believe that these women want to fuck him.
1:15:33 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:15:33 Speaker 03 And I believe that this guy has a burning desire to fuck these women. Every single, like, it's in him. It's, it's pouring out of this guy. Like, his, he, he's just thirsty. And then, of course, you know, he marries Catherine Zeta Jones.
1:15:47 Bill Simmons? Well, he is like, he's probably the number one actor ever where you're watching the sex scene thinking like, I wonder if they actually like fuck during this.
1:15:54 Speaker 03 So this is my, it's almost yours, but it's different. Like, mine is that I think he is a stone cold freak in real life. Yeah. Remember when he got mouth cancer from, like, remember that?
1:16:09 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:16:10 Speaker 03 He's a stone, stone cold freak in real life. That's why he is so good.
1:16:15 Bill Simmons? As a freak?
1:16:16 Speaker 03 In the, like, in these roles. There's a version of the American president. I've always said that. There's a version of that that's an erotic thriller.
1:16:24 Bill Simmons? Cheating American president?
1:16:25 Speaker 03 That's even better, an even better version of the movie.
1:16:30 Bill Simmons? You know why we know he's a freak? Because of the basic instinct scene. When he just walks to the bathroom naked and the, and the director's like, yo, Michael, we can kind of see your balls swaying during this. And he's like, let it fly, man. Keep it in. Keep it in. Sounds great. Hey, Roxy, let's have a talk, man to man. Uh, casting what ifs. Milos Forman originally attached to direct.
1:16:54 Speaker 03 Interesting.
1:16:55 Bill Simmons? But left due to creative differences and then Levinson got hired. So originally set to play Meredith, Annette Bening.
1:17:03 Speaker 03 Doesn't work.
1:17:03 Bill Simmons? Got pregnant and dropped out and then ended up making American president with him a year later.
1:17:08 Speaker 03 Beautiful. A fantastic actress, probably pound for pound a better actress than Demi Moore, but it doesn't quite work.
1:17:14 Speaker 04 No, she can't know.
1:17:16 Bill Simmons? Demi Moore ended up getting it over Gina Davis and Michelle Pfeiffer.
1:17:20 Speaker 03 Pfeiffer would have worked.
1:17:21 Speaker 04 Pfeiffer could have worked.
1:17:24 Speaker 03 Pfeiffer would have worked.
1:17:24 Bill Simmons? I don't know if she does it at that point in her career.
1:17:26 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:17:26 Bill Simmons? She's in her, I gotta save kids at a high school.
1:17:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:17:30 Bill Simmons? While Coolio song plays.
1:17:31 Speaker 03 But you had a woman from Scarface?
1:17:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:17:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:17:35 Bill Simmons? Eighties Michelle Pfeiffer.
1:17:36 Speaker 03 Oh, Fabulous Baker Boys, Michelle Pfeiffer.
1:17:38 Bill Simmons? And then Michael Crichton wrote the character because he knew they were going to turn the book into a movie as he was writing it. Cause he's like, I got this and he wrote the character Mark for Dennis Miller in his head as he was writing it.
1:17:48 Speaker 03 Oh, okay.
1:17:51 Bill Simmons? Well, it's always a pleasure to give this a word out. The Van Lathan Award, did this movie need more black people?
1:17:57 Speaker 03 It had one guy that I saw sitting behind somebody. And he literally, so one guy was sitting behind him and I could tell that he, whoever this extra was or this day player, was trying to let his people back in Cincinnati know that he was in the movie.
1:18:12 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:18:12 Speaker 03 Cause he's sitting behind her and, and he's like, he's trying to look, he's trying to see. He's getting like, he's trying to look when they had the thing and the black guy that they had in it was one too many. We need to stay.
1:18:27 Speaker 04 That was my answer too, no.
1:18:29 Speaker 03 We need to stay out of all of this business.
1:18:31 Speaker 04 Any black people in any of, any of, involved in any of this stuff.
1:18:35 Bill Simmons? Best that guy award, the nerdy guy in Douglas's team who played Angel, whatever.
1:18:40 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
1:18:41 Bill Simmons? His name's Nicholas Sadler. I know that guy from different movies. I don't even know where else I've seen him, but he's like a great that guy.
1:18:47 Speaker 04 Um, the, the, the son, the, the Con Lee Jr. Dude. The, the, the, basically the son of the CEO.
1:18:54 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:18:55 Speaker 04 Comes in and he's like doing all the talking.
1:18:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he's one of those guys.
1:18:58 Speaker 04 He's a that guy. And the lady, Jo Erle is his name.
1:19:01 Speaker 03 Is Dylan Baker that guy or is Dylan Baker Dylan Baker?
1:19:03 Bill Simmons? Dylan Baker's Dylan Baker.
1:19:04 Speaker 04 For me, he's that guy.
1:19:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:19:06 Speaker 04 Cause I had to Google his name, name.
1:19:08 Bill Simmons? Dion Wait- Dion Waiters award.
1:19:12 Bill Simmons? I don't know if Tom's lawyer is in it too much, but she's a candidate.
1:19:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's the two lawyers for me.
1:19:17 Bill Simmons? The other lawyer, angry semi sexist laid off guy in the ferry, the first scene.
1:19:22 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's good.
1:19:24 Bill Simmons? My pick would be Dennis Miller. I think he's not in it quite enough. And every time he comes in, he's just fucking throwing sliders and curveballs.
1:19:31 Speaker 03 Of the award, for sure.
1:19:33 Bill Simmons? Movie needs him, otherwise it's a pretty like stiff movie.
1:19:35 Speaker 03 He clinched it during the scene at the dinner where he tries to out Michael Douglas to his wife. That's where he clinched it. And then, by the way, at the end, all of Michael Douglas's people turn on him. Did she get to you? Did she get to you? Did she get to you? And then at the end.
1:19:50 Bill Simmons? He's fine with it.
1:19:51 Speaker 03 They're boys again.
1:19:52 Bill Simmons? Yeah. Recasting couch director city. I think this would have been an amazing David Fincher movie, and he wasn't quite David Fincher yet.
1:20:01 Speaker 03 You're dark.
1:20:02 Bill Simmons? But if it's David Fincher in the late 90s, maybe even the game David Fincher, just being given this movie. Which the game's only three years after this, but I think this would, I think in Fincher's hands, this movie is like one of the great 90s movies.
1:20:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think freaky directors like De Palma.
1:20:21 Bill Simmons? De Palma would have been good too.
1:20:23 Speaker 03 He might have, he might have took this over the freaky edge.
1:20:26 Bill Simmons? More sex, yeah.
1:20:27 Speaker 03 You know.
1:20:28 Bill Simmons? There would have been a following scene throughout Seattle where he's just following Demi Moore around the city.
1:20:34 Speaker 03 I think the movie's definitely a lot freakier if De Palma does it, but like.
1:20:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah, because Levinson was not, he was like, did his natural, like, diner.
1:20:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, like his.
1:20:43 Bill Simmons? Rain Man.
1:20:44 Speaker 03 The movie has a brightness to it and a lightness to it, like, that it probably shouldn't have, honestly.
1:20:51 Bill Simmons? We probably should have talked about Levinson more because he was one of the big commercial directors of, of really mid 80s through the 90s, peaking with Rain Man.
1:20:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:21:00 Bill Simmons? Which won just about every award. Um, and it was a big deal when he was directing this movie, but I don't know if this was, I don't feel like Barry Levinson is a horny guy.
1:21:09 Speaker 03 No, even that movie Rain Man is dealing with some, like, unbelievably heavy, heavy, heavy subject matter. But there's a lightness to his touch that makes the movie palatable to a much, much larger audience. And they, this movie kinda, kinda didn't need that. But if, maybe, if, honestly, if it is Fincher, it maybe doesn't make $250 million or whatever.
1:21:32 Bill Simmons? Well, he basically makes this with Gone Girl, right? It's a version of the same kind of movie.
1:21:36 Speaker 03 But we've changed at that point.
1:21:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:21:39 Speaker 04 And, you know, I'm looking on his IMDB and stuff that he's produced and it's like a lot of TV shows that I've personally enjoyed like Monsieur Spade and Dope Sick.
1:21:48 Bill Simmons? He's about homicide.
1:21:49 Speaker 04 Immortal.
1:21:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:21:50 Speaker 04 Shades of Blue.
1:21:51 Bill Simmons? Hmm.
1:21:52 Speaker 04 With Ray Liotta and J Lo, where Ray Liotta is just like an insane corrupt NYPD cop and J Lo's trying to like, keep it together as his like partner and team member.
1:22:02 Bill Simmons? I just told you.
1:22:03 Speaker 04 What?
1:22:03 Bill Simmons? Nineteen ninety-two, Liotta's last movie. I watched it on an airplane on the way to Denver.
1:22:08 Speaker 03 Ninety-two.
1:22:09 Bill Simmons? Tyrese. Ray Liotta, Clint Eastwood's son.
1:22:13 Speaker 03 Scott Eastwood, yeah.
1:22:14 Bill Simmons? There's a heist. And it's not very good and I loved it.
1:22:17 Speaker 03 Bill loved it.
1:22:18 Bill Simmons? I loved it for an airplane on a small square was perfect.
1:22:22 Speaker 03 I didn't realize that you were such a Tyrese guy.
1:22:25 Bill Simmons? I like Tyrese.
1:22:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:22:26 Bill Simmons? I think he's had some, some good actor moments. Is that like controversial opinion?
1:22:31 Speaker 04 No, he's just kind of made himself into a caricature of.
1:22:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah, but I think there was more talent there than.
1:22:38 Speaker 04 Definitely a talented cat.
1:22:40 Speaker 03 I mean, he's like, I mean, he's having a, a great career. He's just.
1:22:43 Speaker 04 He's, he's, he's.
1:22:44 Speaker 03 As a public figure, he's a funny guy.
1:22:45 Bill Simmons? Every time we talk about any black actor, Van always gets a look on his face like I'm gonna be hearing from him later when we.
1:22:51 Speaker 04 Well, yeah, Van knows these people personally.
1:22:53 Speaker 03 But, but, I mean, Tyrese has had a, he's one of those guys that's had a sneaky underrated movie career.
1:22:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I don't even know if it's sneaky.
1:23:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:23:01 Bill Simmons? I think.
1:23:02 Speaker 03 No, it's true.
1:23:03 Bill Simmons? He's in the Fast franchise.
1:23:04 Speaker 03 Fast franchise.
1:23:05 Bill Simmons? But I thought Baby Boy, he's really good in that movie.
1:23:08 Speaker 03 Bill, you've never seen Baby Boy?
1:23:09 Bill Simmons? What the fuck? Of course I've seen Baby Boy.
1:23:11 Speaker 03 You, you.
1:23:12 Bill Simmons? Baby Boy's a real movie. Yeah, that's a crossover movie. Come on.
1:23:16 Speaker 03 It's a crossover.
1:23:16 Speaker 04 I think.
1:23:17 Bill Simmons? I saw those movies.
1:23:18 Speaker 03 You think it's a crossover? So like, how about this? Can you commit to the Baby Boy rewatchables?
1:23:23 Bill Simmons? I haven't seen it in a long time.
1:23:24 Speaker 03 Let's lock that, you know what I'm saying?
1:23:25 Bill Simmons? I saw it in the theater though.
1:23:27 Speaker 03 You saw Baby Boy in the theater?
1:23:29 Bill Simmons? I didn't have a lot going on in the nineties.
1:23:32 Speaker 03 I fuck with Baby Boy. I love Baby Boy. That's just not, when you think of the Singleton movies that you would have saw in the theaters, I wouldn't have thought.
1:23:39 Bill Simmons? Well, Poetic Justice was first day because of Tupac.
1:23:41 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, first, yeah.
1:23:42 Bill Simmons? And also it was so close to Boys in the Hood. Like that was like an event.
1:23:46 Speaker 03 But John Singleton, because we did hire learning, um, John Singleton.
1:23:49 Bill Simmons? Saw that in the theater too.
1:23:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was appointment viewing in the nineties with the movies that he made, you know?
1:23:55 Bill Simmons? Half ass, oh, I skipped one. Romo Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary?
1:24:01 Speaker 04 This is easy for me. It's Quentin. It's always Quentin for me. Quentin narrating some of these scenes, dude.
1:24:10 Speaker 03 Tom Tarantino?
1:24:11 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:24:12 Speaker 03 He a real life freak.
1:24:12 Speaker 04 It's always Quentin. Um, so somebody on the internet like spliced up um, his commentary on King of New York that he did with you guys.
1:24:21 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:24:21 Speaker 04 On the rewatchables. And I just watched that like two days ago.
1:24:23 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:24:24 Speaker 04 And when this guy gets going on a movie, on an actor, on a director, it's riveting.
1:24:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. I mean, to me, it's Collinsworth for me.
1:24:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:24:35 Speaker 03 Because I need the play by play of the actual scene.
1:24:37 Bill Simmons? I was thinking Romo.
1:24:38 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:24:41 Speaker 04 He's rubbing her shoulders, Jim. The one's open, Jim. Oh, she touches him, Jim. Stuff's going down.
1:24:51 Speaker 03 His dick's still hard, Jim.
1:24:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, let's go.
1:24:55 Bill Simmons? Half ass earned a research. The 1991 Palme d'Or, these days, a $600 bottle.
1:25:01 Speaker 04 Wow.
1:25:02 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:25:03 Speaker 03 Wow.
1:25:05 Bill Simmons? Industrial Light and Magic made all the VR stuff. I don't think they brag about that in the offices.
1:25:09 Speaker 03 Best moment.
1:25:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's.
1:25:10 Bill Simmons? Uh, filmed in and around Seattle.
1:25:14 Bill Simmons? Films Marketing touted it as the first Hollywood movie with major stars to address the topic of sexual harassment. I'm telling you, this was a crazy time for movies where it's like, this is the first AIDS movie. This is the first sexual harassment movie.
1:25:27 Speaker 03 Sliver, the movie where we talk about video voyeurism.
1:25:30 Bill Simmons? Right.
1:25:30 Speaker 03 Like there was.
1:25:30 Bill Simmons? We didn't have the internet. So anytime Hollywood tackled a topic, it was like a big deal. It's like, oh, we're doing this.
1:25:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:25:37 Bill Simmons? Third most rented movie of 1995 and the number one rented movie in Baton Rouge.
1:25:42 Speaker 03 Oh, I was about to say, I was, Showgirls was one of my top rented ones.
1:25:46 Bill Simmons? Third of 1995. Uh, a decade later, Demi Moore was sued for sexual harassment by the caretaker of her Idaho ranch. Um, the case was dismissed.
1:25:56 Speaker 03 Wait, what?
1:25:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah, just passed not long. And then, uh, Demi Moore gave birth to her third child a month before she was cast and biked 28 miles every morning pre-dawn to get back in shape for the film.
1:26:10 Speaker 03 Oh, my God.
1:26:11 Bill Simmons? Kudos.
1:26:12 Speaker 04 Dedication.
1:26:13 Bill Simmons? To her.
1:26:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:26:14 Bill Simmons? We'll take one more break, then we do Apex Mountain.
1:26:22 Bill Simmons? Apex Mountain, Michael Douglas, no.
1:26:25 Speaker 03 Nah.
1:26:27 Bill Simmons? Demi Moore.
1:26:30 Bill Simmons? It's, it's right around here. It's Indecent Proposal. It's this movie. It's like, if she's in a movie and she's on the poster, it's making $200 million.
1:26:39 Speaker 03 For some reason, I can't call her Apex Mountain.
1:26:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, cuz it's definitely not the movie that she's most associated with.
1:26:45 Bill Simmons? I think it's probably Indecent Proposal. Cuz that, that's barely a movie. And somehow, that movie did really well.
1:26:51 Speaker 03 It's not Ghost?
1:26:55 Bill Simmons? Yeah. So the problem is, we've done all these movies and we've probably already litigated this. Yeah, it might be Ghost.
1:27:00 Speaker 03 It's not, it, it, it.
1:27:01 Bill Simmons? It might be Ghost.
1:27:02 Speaker 04 When people think of Demi Moore, they don't think of Disclosure. So it can't be after this movie.
1:27:06 Bill Simmons? I was just trying to think of, when did she have the most power?
1:27:11 Bill Simmons? Coming out of this movie, where this is when she gets the 12 million for striptease?
1:27:14 Speaker 04 So much money, yeah.
1:27:16 Bill Simmons? That's what I was thinking.
1:27:17 Speaker 03 She gets the 12 million for striptease.
1:27:18 Bill Simmons? She sets the record for a salary after this movie. So it might be this one. Sexual harassment movies?
1:27:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:27:25 Bill Simmons? It's gotta be.
1:27:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:27:26 Bill Simmons? Older Donald Sutherland. He's got this, and he's got Six Degrees of Separation.
1:27:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:27:31 Bill Simmons? A movie that we're gonna do on the rewatchables at some point. Uh, so I think it's right around here. He's got the beard. He's got that smarmy, like that weird posture. Always in a suit, arms crossed.
1:27:41 Speaker 03 Even his boss. When I think Donald Sutherland, cuz he was, I, I don't know why, I think Outbreak, man. Be compassionate, but be compassionate globally. When he was five.
1:27:52 Bill Simmons? I always think Invasion of Body Snatchers.
1:27:56 Bill Simmons? Virtual reality, no. Actor Dennis Miller, I think yes, cuz he's got this in the net.
1:28:01 Speaker 03 The net, yeah.
1:28:02 Bill Simmons? 91 Palmyra, definitely.
1:28:05 Bill Simmons? The Miss Teenage New Mexico Pageant? I think this was the peak. When was that ever mentioned? Who even knew they had it?
1:28:12 Bill Simmons? Uh, anything else?
1:28:13 Speaker 03 Seattle as a setting?
1:28:15 Bill Simmons? You know, so Singles comes out this year too.
1:28:17 Speaker 03 Singles, yeah.
1:28:18 Bill Simmons? Shawn Kemp and G.P. are in place. Ken Griffey is there.
1:28:22 Speaker 03 Oh, no, Sleepless in Seattle. What am I talking about?
1:28:25 Bill Simmons? But that's, this is the year before.
1:28:26 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:28:27 Bill Simmons? It's this, this is Starbucks is starting, this is Amazon is getting ready. This is it.
1:28:32 Speaker 03 This is, Seattle's a cool place.
1:28:33 Bill Simmons? You're buying Seattle stock right here.
1:28:35 Speaker 03 Right.
1:28:38 Bill Simmons? Cruise or Hanks?
1:28:40 Speaker 03 Aw shit.
1:28:41 Speaker 04 In this movie, specifically? Tom Cruise. Like, the aggrieved, you know, like-
1:28:47 Bill Simmons? I had Cruise as well.
1:28:48 Speaker 04 Incredulous, just lecturing people, like, that's Cruise.
1:28:53 Speaker 03 I get it.
1:28:54 Speaker 04 It's just the sex part.
1:28:55 Speaker 03 It probably works, but sometimes the thing that puts me off Cruise, it's probably Cruise, right? Over Hanks? But sometimes the thing that puts me off about Cruise and Hanks is that Cruise is so handsome that the guy who plays the lead here has to have some sort of everyman type of situation? But Tom Hanks just doesn't work in the role? So, and Tom Cruise does, that's the thing. But Cruise, you need a guy that's like, what did she say about him, uh, at the beginning of the movie? She says, "You're handsome, but you're not irresistible." And that's like the perfect guy to like, to play the role.
1:29:30 Speaker 04 It's just for me, I could just see Tom Cruise yelling at his wife, yelling at his bosses, yelling at his subordinates.
1:29:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he gets over it.
1:29:36 Speaker 04 That's what he does so well.
1:29:39 Speaker 03 What were Cruise's, did he ever?
1:29:42 Bill Simmons? He never had a movie like this.
1:29:43 Speaker 03 Never did he, he never did?
1:29:44 Bill Simmons? I watched Shut was the closest.
1:29:46 Speaker 03 Oh yeah, Rock Thriller, that's his Rock Thriller. I was watching that.
1:29:49 Bill Simmons? Racehorse, rock band wrestler, fantasy team name. Alchemax is pretty strong for a horse.
1:29:55 Speaker 03 Alchemax is strong for a rock band, too.
1:29:57 Bill Simmons? Alchemax sounds good.
1:29:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:29:59 Bill Simmons? Going to see Alchemax tonight. Picky Nits. Meredith would not have made sure that the phone was hung up?
1:30:07 Bill Simmons? Phone just dangling?
1:30:08 Speaker 04 It's early cell phones, people don't really know how to work them like that, dude, that's-
1:30:13 Speaker 03 The whole, the, one of my nitpicks is the whole, uh, part with the, the, we got it all on tape type of situation. "I've been trying to get in touch with you, I can't get in touch with you, I got the whole thing on tape."
1:30:27 Bill Simmons? I had that as well.
1:30:28 Speaker 03 "Your whole career is in the balance, I have a tape that-"
1:30:31 Bill Simmons? I brought the tape home from work so I could listen to it a couple times. Here it is.
1:30:35 Speaker 04 Or Demi Moore on the, what, what, like some kind of bicycle?
1:30:40 Bill Simmons? The Stairmaster, just laying out her whole plan?
1:30:42 Speaker 04 And yeah, they're just literally just saying all the evil things they've done-
1:30:46 Bill Simmons? So tomorrow, we're gonna set up Tom. And blame the product launch on him.
1:30:51 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:30:52 Speaker 03 By the way, just, just, just so we don't gloss over it. The dude who had the tape is a freak.
1:30:57 Bill Simmons? Yeah, he definitely masturbated. He masturbated the tape.
1:31:00 Speaker 03 No, he said it.
1:31:01 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:31:02 Speaker 03 In the movie, he goes, I have the tape and I was listening to it with my girlfriend a couple of times.
1:31:08 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
1:31:08 Speaker 03 It's a freak.
1:31:09 Bill Simmons? Sick.
1:31:10 Speaker 03 Freaky dog.
1:31:12 Bill Simmons? The legal proceedings just started in 24 hours. We had a lawyer and a judge and we're just ready to roll. The merger's coming. Let's get a legal.
1:31:21 Speaker 03 The movie takes place over the course of one week.
1:31:24 Bill Simmons? Yeah, it's like four days.
1:31:26 Speaker 03 Up and completely adjudicated.
1:31:28 Bill Simmons? Lawyers, depositions.
1:31:29 Speaker 03 Lawyers, depots and the whole no fucking way.
1:31:32 Speaker 04 Another thing is like as the case is going on, they're all still in the office and they're all acting like normal. Like when he gets in the elevator with Demi Moore, like somebody who just accused you of sexual harassment in the workplace, you're getting in an elevator with her alone? Immunitarily like.
1:31:47 Speaker 03 Immediately somebody's placed on leave.
1:31:49 Speaker 04 It's, it's not even like he's on there first and she just big boys and, and gets on. She's on there and he just goes, I'm just gonna voluntarily hop in the elevator with somebody who falsely accused me of that. That's crazy.
1:32:01 Bill Simmons? The settlement offer, once he has the tape and it's clear that, you know, whatever. He gets his job back at a hundred thousand. He's like fist pumping. I'm like, I'm going for like five, six million.
1:32:12 Speaker 04 This dude's.
1:32:13 Bill Simmons? Give me more stock shares for the merger.
1:32:16 Speaker 04 One million? I mean, one hundred thousand? Like, no.
1:32:19 Bill Simmons? Anything else?
1:32:20 Speaker 03 No, my, by far, my two biggest nitpicks were the tape and how quickly.
1:32:24 Bill Simmons? In the legal time.
1:32:25 Speaker 03 This was, uh, like.
1:32:27 Speaker 04 Adjudicated.
1:32:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:32:28 Bill Simmons? Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast or untouchable. I gotta say, Presumed Innocent has proven that we can bring these back.
1:32:35 Speaker 04 Literally, this is what it says. We need the presumed innocent treatment.
1:32:39 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:32:40 Speaker 04 Tomorrow.
1:32:41 Bill Simmons? This should be season two of Presumed Innocent.
1:32:42 Speaker 03 I would love it as a prestige show. You could.
1:32:45 Speaker 04 Oh, my God.
1:32:46 Speaker 03 Cast too hot. You could go a lot deeper with things. You could play a lot. I would love it.
1:32:52 Speaker 04 My man Fosbender's doing TV shows now. I would love to see him in the lead role of this.
1:32:57 Bill Simmons? Uh, is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Nell, Byron Mello, Harling Mays, Eva Lafferty, Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? I guess we could have put Dylan Baker in there too. Um.
1:33:16 Bill Simmons? Can I give you long legs?
1:33:17 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, go for it.
1:33:26 Bill Simmons? Somebody's got the tip.
1:33:30 Bill Simmons? You're having sex in it.
1:33:35 Bill Simmons? I have long legs for a bandit.
1:33:37 Speaker 03 Oh, my goodness.
1:33:39 Bill Simmons? Just want to ask her who gets it.
1:33:41 Speaker 03 Demi Moore, man.
1:33:43 Bill Simmons? I have Demi Moore as well.
1:33:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, I had Douglas.
1:33:47 Speaker 04 Okay.
1:33:47 Bill Simmons? Oh.
1:33:48 Speaker 03 I had Michael Douglas.
1:33:49 Bill Simmons? You love every man, Mike.
1:33:50 Speaker 03 You love him.
1:33:50 Speaker 04 I do, I do. I just appreciate, I appreciate the guy that literally gets caught with his pants down, but is still fighting tooth and nail as if like, he, because if he's to be believed, he did absolutely nothing wrong. He was the model worker. He's always been that, and these people are out to get him. I just love the steadfastness.
1:34:13 Bill Simmons? He does reconsider maybe some of his interactions with his assistant.
1:34:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:34:17 Bill Simmons? He apologized to her.
1:34:18 Speaker 03 There is an enlightenment that comes along.
1:34:19 Bill Simmons? Hey, sorry, I slapped down the ass with the files there. My bad.
1:34:21 Speaker 03 And the moment that he sees his assistant in there.
1:34:24 Speaker 04 That's a great, his face.
1:34:25 Speaker 03 His face like, oh my God, I've slapped her on her ass before.
1:34:28 Bill Simmons? I like the assistant. I thought she was a good actress. I don't know what happened to her.
1:34:33 Speaker 03 I really liked her.
1:34:33 Speaker 04 Her name's Jacqueline Kim.
1:34:34 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:34:35 Speaker 03 I really liked her. I don't think that we can pass it up.
1:34:39 Bill Simmons? Probably an answerable questions.
1:34:43 Bill Simmons? Did we ever figure out a really good way to do Malaysian CD-ROMs? Or we just, it was just a mess for the whole 90s?
1:34:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think so.
1:34:53 Bill Simmons? Elizabeth Sun, did he become Jeff Bezos or some other 2000s billionaire?
1:34:57 Speaker 03 It seems like he was right there around the boom, you know?
1:35:01 Bill Simmons? Might have started something. Had like 200 billion bucks.
1:35:03 Speaker 04 He's definitely living off his Apple stock after the iPhone and the iPod go crazy. Sure.
1:35:09 Bill Simmons? Did Meredith become our vice president nominee in 2008 on either side?
1:35:15 Speaker 03 Wow. Could have been. Did she come back and buy the company like she said she would?
1:35:21 Bill Simmons? Did she become a billionaire?
1:35:23 Speaker 03 Did she become a billionaire?
1:35:24 Bill Simmons? I feel like she bounces back pretty strong.
1:35:26 Speaker 03 I think she does too.
1:35:27 Bill Simmons? She, she took two days to figure out, what did I, what did I do wrong here? And then solved it and then was doing great.
1:35:34 Speaker 03 Yeah. There's actually a, a version of this, like a sequel just around her. But it's like a Sex and the City type situation on HBO. Suddenly I see comes on at the beginning, she's taking on the city.
1:35:48 Bill Simmons? Any other answerables?
1:35:50 Speaker 04 Um, no, not for me.
1:35:52 Bill Simmons? Best double feature choice. I'm going with the net.
1:35:54 Speaker 03 The, the net's a good one.
1:35:55 Bill Simmons? Let's just go with like, here's what we thought the internet was gonna be like in 1994.
1:35:59 Speaker 04 Internet movie.
1:36:01 Bill Simmons? You could also do any of the everyman trilogy with Mike.
1:36:04 Speaker 04 I like, I, I, I picked Enemy of the State.
1:36:07 Bill Simmons? Cause it's just. I like it. That's another good technology movie.
1:36:10 Speaker 04 Paranoia, technology, like, you know, these, these systems of power that's just gonna crush this regular guy. Just trying to get through the world and through his life. Yeah, that's what this movie kinda reminded me of.
1:36:23 Bill Simmons? We did that one on the rewatchables a while ago and it's so funny how it sees surveillance. Where it's just like, it's the late nineties and everywhere you go, we'll be able to see what you're doing with our, these cameras. And it's like, you can't even do that now?
1:36:37 Speaker 04 I mean.
1:36:38 Bill Simmons? Or maybe we're getting there at the Quivers Arena?
1:36:40 Speaker 03 You know, you are.
1:36:41 Bill Simmons? No, but like Will Smith's like in a dressing room and they're like, they can zoom around the store and get in there.
1:36:46 Speaker 04 Soon as you leave out of this building, you're on camera.
1:36:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:36:50 Speaker 03 Like you're, you're.
1:36:51 Speaker 04 You're always on camera.
1:36:52 Speaker 03 And it's so funny when I'm watching all these interrogation videos, I'm, I'm watching the cops.
1:36:57 Bill Simmons? He always drops that, like we.
1:36:59 Speaker 03 What?
1:36:59 Bill Simmons? We have to explain the interrogation video.
1:37:01 Speaker 04 Are you talking like First Forty Eight or something?
1:37:03 Speaker 03 No, no, I go on YouTube and I watch interrogation videos.
1:37:06 Bill Simmons? He likes seeing suspects get interrogated on YouTube. This is a YouTube search for bad.
1:37:11 Speaker 04 So is this like, so you could be prepared if the cops ever interrogate you?
1:37:15 Bill Simmons? You like the dynamics of the interrogation.
1:37:17 Speaker 03 I just like to watch a cop use the read technique on a suspect to try to get information. And I learned so much. You're always on camera. And your phone is telling the police and everybody else where you are at all times during the day. Like, they know exactly where you are. So, but yeah, but my double feature choice, I ought to change it to the game because I hadn't thought about the game.
1:37:42 Bill Simmons? The game's a good one, yeah.
1:37:43 Speaker 03 You know what? I will change it to that because I just had basic instinct, but that's literally basic.
1:37:47 Bill Simmons? Yeah. The Indian Reds is not a Zouatne award for what happened the next day. I think eventually Meredith becomes the Senator in New Mexico.
1:37:56 Bill Simmons? Like 2002 range?
1:37:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:37:58 Bill Simmons? I think I think Tom gets divorced. I don't think the wife lets it go. I think it starts coming up.
1:38:04 Speaker 04 He takes the family to Napa and goes on like an insane wine bender.
1:38:09 Bill Simmons? Like a sideways type bender?
1:38:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, and like.
1:38:12 Speaker 03 I think Tom leaves the business.
1:38:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:38:14 Speaker 03 I think I think I think they relocate to Ojai. They, he, his wife, I don't think the wife leaves him, but I do think that she sets an ultimatum that at this point you can't continue to be in the business like that. You gotta get out of it.
1:38:29 Bill Simmons? She definitely goes on a girl's trip where things happen.
1:38:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, of course.
1:38:32 Bill Simmons? There's a revenge girl's trip that she locks down.
1:38:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:38:37 Bill Simmons? What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?
1:38:40 Speaker 04 There's like a Sonics thing in his office that I thought was super cool in Tom Sanders' office. That was cool to me.
1:38:49 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I would want the basketball he has that makes no bouncing sound.
1:38:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:38:53 Bill Simmons? He's just throwing it around the office. There's no sound at all. I would go with the Palmyra bottle if it was unopened. Just like movie, movie use bottle of wine.
1:39:04 Speaker 03 I can't say.
1:39:05 Bill Simmons? Just, just say you did the bra, man.
1:39:07 Speaker 03 It's the ripped panties.
1:39:09 Bill Simmons? All right. It's fine.
1:39:11 Speaker 04 You want the panties themselves?
1:39:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, you can.
1:39:13 Speaker 04 Lord have mercy.
1:39:14 Speaker 03 That's what I'm saying. I apologize to the audience sincerely.
1:39:19 Bill Simmons? That was a Larry Sanders joke way a few years later. They were talking about Planet Hollywood. One of the characters said, so I can have lunch next to Demi Moore's ripped panties? He was already. Coach Finstock award, best life lesson. Don't ever assume what the internet's going to be like. Could possibly be one.
1:39:37 Speaker 04 Life lesson for me, um.
1:39:41 Speaker 04 Dennis Miller says 10 years from now, you're gonna need a forklift to get a hard on. And I'm gonna assume Michael Douglas is like 48. He's supposed to be in this movie.
1:39:50 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:39:51 Speaker 04 Probably 50. So that means in 20 years, I'm gonna need a forklift to get a hard on. So that's the life lesson for me.
1:39:57 Speaker 03 Technology's changed it, brother.
1:39:59 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:40:03 Speaker 03 My life lesson is very simple. Man, don't give your boss a shoulder up. Like, there's nothing that could good-
1:40:10 Bill Simmons? The 7pm glass of wine.
1:40:11 Speaker 03 The 7pm glass of wine.
1:40:13 Bill Simmons? It's a life lesson we knew, but somehow this movie did.
1:40:17 Bill Simmons? Who won the movie?
1:40:19 Speaker 03 I think Demi Moore.
1:40:20 Speaker 04 For me, it's Levinson.
1:40:22 Speaker 03 For real?
1:40:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah. I just love that this guy, like, nobody would try to do this nowadays. In terms of go out of your way to stake an opinion on all these weighty topics of women in the workplace.
1:40:38 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:40:38 Speaker 04 And sexual harassment and technology and corporate culture and mascot. Like, he has something to say about a bunch of weighty topics and like, that's what I like the most about the movie. Now, look, I don't agree with, you know, his conclusions ultimately with everything, but I like that he has the balls to do it in a way that I just don't think filmmakers would do. They might stick to one thing, like, you know, I just watched The Nora and they're talking about sex work. And it's like, alright, I'm gonna talk about the nature of sex work. Um, and, you know, there's gonna be a little bit of class mixed in, but we're sticking to like what it's like to be a sex worker, which is like, you know, a pretty weighty kinda thing. This guy's like five, six different weighty topics that he's just taking his hand in and just being like,
1:41:23 Speaker 04 here, here's what I think, here's my take, here's my whatever. And I thought it was a pretty entertaining movie in the process.
1:41:29 Bill Simmons? I got Demi Moore.
1:41:30 Speaker 03 I got Demi Moore, too.
1:41:31 Speaker 04 I respect it.
1:41:34 Bill Simmons? The Nora was about a sex worker who got mixed up with Russian Borat.
1:41:39 Bill Simmons? That's my blurb. That's my one blurb for Nora.
1:41:42 Speaker 03 I love that movie.
1:41:43 Bill Simmons? It's, it's great. I like it too. Craig, now we're in a different studio. We have to stare at you through a blurry window. But you had never seen this movie. What was your take?
1:41:52 Speaker 04 Um, 10 out of 10.
1:41:53 Speaker 03 Love it.
1:41:54 Speaker 04 But you know how people say 10 out of 10, no notes. 10 out of 10, but a lot of notes, I would say. It's a 10 out of 10 on the entertainment scale, you know? This is a pro- this is like a they don't make them how they used to Hall of Fame.
1:42:04 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:42:05 Speaker 04 Really up there. Um, I just think these movies are becoming like cultural case studies. Like kids in school should be required, like if you're a sociology major, you should have to watch this movie just to see like what people were thinking and stuff in the 90s.
1:42:17 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:42:18 Speaker 04 Also, you guys didn't bring up, uh, so this movie came out in 94. Sam Levinson, born in 85. Sam Levinson, the creator of Euphoria, the son of Barry.
1:42:27 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
1:42:27 Bill Simmons? Oh, yeah.
1:42:29 Speaker 03 Come on, Craig.
1:42:30 Speaker 04 Sam, that means-
1:42:30 Bill Simmons? Great job, Craig.
1:42:31 Speaker 04 Sam probably saw like this movie 10 times when he was nine years old.
1:42:35 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:42:35 Speaker 04 You know, probably was pretty formative. Yeah.
1:42:37 Bill Simmons? Explains a lot.
1:42:39 Speaker 04 For old Sam.
1:42:41 Bill Simmons? Great play, Craig. Great.
1:42:42 Speaker 03 That's a fantastic point.
1:42:44 Speaker 04 Um, yeah.
1:42:46 Bill Simmons? I like your, I like your cultural artifact.
1:42:48 Speaker 03 So true.
1:42:49 Bill Simmons? This is the thing I, with these movies, that I think, we try to make this point over and over again. This is just what people thought and acted and thought was a good idea in 1994. And it's really interesting to watch it in that context. The same thing for Philadelphia, the way they talk about homosexuality needs in the movie. It's pretty accurate. It seems crazy now, but that was what 1993 was like.
1:43:11 Speaker 03 If, if Philadelphia came out now, I think it would be criticized for not being sensitive enough when the entire point of the movie-
1:43:22 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:43:23 Speaker 03 Was to have a conversation about sensitivity and compassion. And you can only do that with the truth of the drama that was in the movie.
1:43:30 Bill Simmons? And Denzel would make them change the character a little bit.
1:43:33 Speaker 03 I don't think he would. I don't think he would. See, I think-
1:43:36 Bill Simmons? Or the filmmaker would. Somebody would.
1:43:37 Speaker 03 The filmmaker would.
1:43:38 Bill Simmons? They'd be like, we can't have me this homophobic.
1:43:40 Speaker 03 A different actor might.
1:43:41 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:43:41 Speaker 03 But the, the conflict that's in Denzel in that movie, especially in that one scene, that's the point of the movie.
1:43:48 Bill Simmons? Yeah.
1:43:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:43:49 Bill Simmons? Anything else, Craig?
1:43:51 Speaker 04 Um.
1:43:52 Bill Simmons? What did Liz think?
1:43:54 Speaker 04 We had to go, it was a blast. We like stopped at like four different times to figure out if the plot made any sense.
1:44:01 Bill Simmons? The answer's no.
1:44:02 Speaker 04 And how it would end. It's just, you know what the problem, like the movie's really fun and everything, but there's a couple of plot things that are just so stupid. Like they build up certain things and then there's no payoff. Like, the voicemail was like this big thing. Like Liz clocked in the beginning, she's like, he didn't turn the phone off, the voicemail's gonna be a thing. And then it's like building up and building up and then Michael Douglas just like calls his friend, he's like, "Oh yeah, I just typed in the wrong number. Do you have the voicemail?" And he's like, "Yep." And then there was another one where it's like, "Oh, how are they gonna take down Demi Moore? How are they gonna take down Meredith?" Like, and then he just calls his buddy in some other city and he's like, "Hey, you got the files of that shows Meredith doesn't know what she's doing?" And he's like, "Yep."
1:44:40 Bill Simmons? Yeah, right here. Hold on.
1:44:42 Speaker 04 It's like, I don't know.
1:44:43 Bill Simmons? I'll fax them to you right now.
1:44:44 Speaker 04 With no drop off, yeah. I also want to say that these are the coolest offices I've ever seen in a movie by far. Yeah, for sure. The aesthetic in this movie is especially now where everyone's in like 90's nostalgia mode. Like the big clunky cluttered office, like the big physical computers. It's like, perfect.
1:45:01 Bill Simmons? Sounds like Disclosure was a big hit at the Craig house.
1:45:04 Speaker 04 Love it.
1:45:04 Speaker 03 They stopped it four or five times as Craig was watching.
1:45:07 Bill Simmons? Yeah, I didn't want to.
1:45:15 Bill Simmons? Alright, that's it for Disclosure. I think we made it.
1:45:17 Speaker 03 So much fun.
1:45:18 Bill Simmons? Don't forget, for the people listening, you can go to the Den of Thieves. The Reden of Thieves taping on December 16th. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck for producing. Thanks to Jack Sanders as well. And, uh, thank you, fellas. This was a pleasure.
1:45:32 Speaker 04 Excellent.
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