‘Basic Instinct’ Live From SF With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Van Lathan

Have you ever rewatched a movie on cocaine, Nick? Live from San Francisco, Bill, Chris, Mal, and Van record the pod of the century after revisiting Paul Verhoeven's 1992 erotic thriller ‘Basic Instinct’ starring Michael Douglas, Sharon Stone, Jeanne Tripplehorn, and George Dzundza. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/REWATCHABLES Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

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• 1:54Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 2:08Bill Simmons?

  Last time you heard this song, it was a cocaine threesome in a bathroom, followed by some dancing. And now, we are here, you horny motherfuckers.

• 2:23Bill Simmons?

  Let me introduce the Rewatchables cast. First of all, thank you, everybody, for coming out tonight. This theater's awesome. Thank you. I love that third deck up there, it's great.

• 2:33Bill Simmons?

  First off, he's the curator of the White Girl Hall of Fame. He's currently hosting a record 17 different Ringer podcasts. The next mayor of Los Angeles, Van Lathan.

• 2:56Bill Simmons?

  You know her as the mother of dragons. She's a woman who really likes hands and fingers. She's almost definitely gonna violate a public obscenity law tonight. Mallory Rubin.

• 3:16Bill Simmons?

  He's the five-time Rewatchables MVP.

• 3:21Bill Simmons?

  He's the man who turned March into CR Month. He's the author of three books about medals. CR himself, Chris Ryan.

• 3:37Bill Simmons?

  And over on the side, for the first time ever joining us for a live show, our producer, the guy who's taken over this podcast after I'm found naked and dead like Johnny Bosz, Craig Hornbeck.

• 3:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. All right. Did you like that, CR?

• 3:56Chris Ryan?

  I do. I like the idea also that you're not killed by a beautiful blonde, but by a Lakers fan.

• 4:02Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. Let's talk most San Francisco movies ever.

• 4:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 4:07Bill Simmons?

  CR? We talked about this earlier. I think the necessities are hills.

• 4:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:13Bill Simmons?

  Water.

• 4:14Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 4:15Bill Simmons?

  Shots of the bridge and nice real estate. Anything else? What do you got?

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  I just think that the sky, the light, the fog, there's like an atmospheric element that San Francisco movies tend to bring into play. I mean, you've got some real... We were talking about how hard it is to move anything off of Mount Rushmore for these.

• 4:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so we got, we were thinking like movies that actually use the city. And it's really cool doing this, you know, in San Francisco, obviously. Movies that make you feel like you're in San Francisco. My four are Basic Instinct, Vertigo, Bullitt, because of the car chase, and then 48 Hours, my favorite movie ever. Van, what else would you put in there? Because I could offer you Mrs. Doubtfire.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:56Bill Simmons?

  I could offer you The Rock, Pacific Heights, The Game. Anything else?

• 5:00Speaker 04

  What about like Dirty Harry, right?

• 5:02Bill Simmons?

  Could offer you Dirty Harry.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Dirty Harry was here. Yeah, man. As a matter of fact, I just want to let you guys know, they're lying about your city. When I came out here, I expected to see Batman patrolling the streets, like, it's fucking gorgeous.

• 5:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, honestly, San Francisco's back. We walked from our hotel to the Giants game last night. San Francisco's in great shape. I don't, not listening to the buzz anymore.

• 5:31Chris Ryan?

  Philly's lost.

• 5:32Bill Simmons?

  Mallory.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Tough for CR.

• 5:36Chris Ryan?

  See you guys in around October, or not. Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:39Bill Simmons?

  What else do you have for San Francisco movies?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Naturally, you're missing a little bit of a genre presence. No Ant-Man, you know?

• 5:45Bill Simmons?

  There you go.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  You didn't have the MCU on your list. Planet of the Apes, no? Star Trek?

• 5:50Bill Simmons?

  Planet of the Apes is a good one.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  Star Trek.

• 5:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. That's good. What's your favorite?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  I have a similar Mount Rushmore to you, I think. I'd say it's probably Bullitt, Zodiac, this movie, Basic Instinct, and Mrs. Doubtfire, for me.

• 6:05Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you're the only one that grew up here.

• 6:07Speaker 05

  I grew up in the East Bay, but yes.

• 6:12Bill Simmons?

  Wow. All right, so what's the most San Francisco movie ever?

• 6:17Speaker 05

  For me, growing up, Mrs. Doubtfire, for sure.

• 6:19Bill Simmons?

  Okay, all right. Well, we have a more important Mount Rushmore. The erotic thriller, Mount Rushmore.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Boy.

• 6:27Bill Simmons?

  Which, the unassailable choices are Body Heat, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, and Unfaithful. Unfortunately, we have the Mother of Dragons here to weigh in. Is that the right four? Is there anyone else you would put in? Nine and a half weeks? What else?

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Well, we've done three of those four together.

• 6:42Bill Simmons?

  We sure have.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  For rewatchables, and now we're doing this one together for the second time.

• 6:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 6:48Bill Simmons?

  A rematch.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  So that's nice. Yeah, that's how three of the five of us got through the first month of COVID, was learning how to podcast remotely, talking about this movie. Very normal podcast experience.

• 6:58Bill Simmons?

  It was on Zoom, three weeks after COVID started. I honestly don't even remember one aspect of what happened.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  I remember that Chris kept saying, "I'll do that if I ever see you guys again in person."

• 7:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Right? He was using the pandemic as a shield to make all of these declarations about how he'd start wearing deep V-neck sweaters.

• 7:16Speaker 05

  With no t-shirt under it.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  And doing cocaine in the bathroom stall at the nightclub.

• 7:21Bill Simmons?

  So, Van, this movie...

• 7:23Speaker 04

  Show me the nightclub. You know, the night's young.

• 7:27Bill Simmons?

  This movie jumpstarts the erotic thriller, Skinamax era.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:32Bill Simmons?

  Which I guess technically starts with Night Eyes in 1990 with Andrew Stephens. I know you own it on 4K Blu-ray.

• 7:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 7:40Bill Simmons?

  Silk stockings on CBS, no nudity, but very important.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  I got more of this, yes.

• 7:44Bill Simmons?

  Basic Instinct, we have Shane and Tweed, and Shane and Worry are about to come into our lives.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  All of them.

• 7:49Bill Simmons?

  What else do you remember from this era?

• 7:50Speaker 04

  I remember, like, staying up late, making sure that my parents were asleep. I was by myself, having a great time. Emmanuel, all the different Emmanuels. I have a list later. Yeah, I know. I'm not by myself. But, you know, Red Shoe Diaries, you fucking freak you.

• 8:07Bill Simmons?

  Red Shoe, yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 04

  All of that stuff. Because what happened was, this is prestige freak shit, Basic Instinct. That's not, I could get to that, right? That was in a movie theater. But then the freak shit that came on later on, you know, that was the stuff that was accessible to me. And that's what really made me a man.

• 8:26Bill Simmons?

  CR and I have had very different experiences with this movie because I saw this movie in college by myself in Worcester, Massachusetts during the day.

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Wait a second.

• 8:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Don't let that slide.

• 8:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:39Speaker 04

  I saw this movie in college by myself.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Every...

• 8:43Bill Simmons?

  I had some time after class.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Every story he tells from him in college, "Ah, it was me, House, and Joe King. We were all hanging out." But he made them motherfuckers leave.

• 8:53Bill Simmons?

  It was a solo.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  How many empty seats between you and the next guy who was also jerking off throughout the entire movie?

• 9:02Speaker 04

  Extra butter.

• 9:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't remember a lot, other than that there were no couples. And I'm gonna say between 16 and 18 guys soloing in different spots in the theater.

• 9:14Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 9:15Bill Simmons?

  And it just, the feedback or the stuff that was coming out about this movie. First of all, we knew like the nude scenes were off the chain. We knew Sharon Stone was the lady from Total Recall and some Action Jackson movies we liked. And then there was supposedly this, this female frontal thing that you didn't know what it was. So it was a little like the, the shark and jaws waiting to see what was gonna happen.

• 9:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. But if you didn't know you were gonna get a shark in jaws, like it was just a rumor.

• 9:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I honestly, CR, this movie went way further than I was prepared. But you saw it younger than me, because you're younger than me.

• 9:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we, we, we were like Dan Orlovsky breaking down tape with this once this hit the video stores. There was a lot of missing copies of this. And there was a lot of probably like, you know, manipulating the tracking on your VHS machine. So this was, this was a Hall of Fame rental.

• 10:11Bill Simmons?

  How did this help you through puberty?

• 10:14Chris Ryan?

  I was thinking about this. Sharon Stone, 86 through 92, is like, her and Cathy Ireland are the bird and magic of my sexual awakening.

• 10:26Bill Simmons?

  Who would you throw in, Vin?

• 10:28Speaker 04

  I got a list.

• 10:31Speaker 04

  Alright, so, um, at the bottom of the list, all the ladies from the various Emanuel movies. Emanuel Queen of the Desert, Emanuel in Space, Black Emanuel, Emanuel in Bangkok. They had Emanuel for every fucking flavor that you needed. Alright, number four, Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  Number three, Robin Givens in A Rage in Harlem. Number two, Janet Jackson in The Pleasure Pentacle Video.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Number one, Pam Grier, Foxy Brown. My mom, that's what I'm talking about. My mom actually made me get into Pam Grier and Foxy Brown. My mother suggested I watch that, you know why? Because of Basic Instinct.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  My mom thought that she was gonna lose me to the white women. And she was like, so she was like, thought she was raised in Cuba Gooding Jr. And she goes,

• 11:18Speaker 04

  "You ever seen Foxy Brown?" Cause she knew those could be back to the black side of the situation. Shout out to mama.

• 11:25Bill Simmons?

  Mission accomplished. Well, we have a Rewatchables Award named after a character in this movie that Catherine Trammell, would you throw your life away for this obvious stay-away award? CR, if someone said to you, "I'm writing a book about a podcaster who falls in love with the wrong woman", and it was Sharon Stone in this movie, are you just like, "I'm gonna be dead in four weeks"?

• 11:47Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it's less than four weeks. I think that this movie actually has multiple candidates for this, though. Like, watching it this time around, I would toss it all away for Beth. I mean, that's...

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. What about Roxy?

• 11:58Chris Ryan?

  Beautiful lady, but also a free therapist, you know?

• 12:01Bill Simmons?

  Right. And Roxy.

• 12:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 03

  And Roxy, of course.

• 12:05Speaker 04

  It's easily Roxy, man.

• 12:07Bill Simmons?

  So, I was gonna talk about this later, cause we gotta get into Sharon Stone. But Roxy just comes and goes. She's in this movie, and she's the cop stripper in Days of Thunder. Never seen again. You look at her IMDB, it's like, she, she just, I don't know what happened. But if you just saw this movie, you would've... I thought she was gonna be as big of a star as Sharon Stone, or at least close.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 12:28Bill Simmons?

  No? At least for me.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  If you saw this movie now, you definitely would think that's a person who's gonna be responsible for generating a lot of memes.

• 12:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  Which is powerful in its own way. But Sharon Stone, you watch this movie and you're like, this is the most powerful force of nature, like a hurricane in human form. That's not exactly what Roxy is giving. She's giving...

• 12:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Roxy provoked different emotions.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Let's hit the dance floor.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  You know, I never went for the Sharon Stone types.

• 12:56Chris Ryan?

  In, you mean the Catherine Trammell types, or just Sharon Stone?

• 12:59Speaker 04

  No, what I mean is that, like, you go to the club with your boys.

• 13:03Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna buckle up.

• 13:04Speaker 04

  And everyone goes, "Yo, we gotta have this girl." I would always look at her friend. I'd be like, her friend is the one that's not getting any attention. She's looking at her friend on the dance floor, she's pissed off. She's like, "Look at all them motherfuckers looking at her, I wish I was her." And then I come over and I validate her. I go, "Girl, you are her."

• 13:24Speaker 04

  That's Roxy.

• 13:28Chris Ryan?

  Somebody just needed to validate her, yeah.

• 13:34Bill Simmons?

  A quote in this movie about the Sharon Stone character, Mallory. I love it. She's got a hundred million bucks, she fucks fighters and rock and roll stars, and she's got a degree in screwing with people's heads. And that's not the craziest thing said about her during this movie.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  No, or the craziest thing that she says. I mean, the quotes in this movie are astonishing. One of the wonderful colleagues, Elizabeth, live events head at Rockstar, our own Rockstar, hasn't seen this movie. We were backstage with her and I was thinking, wouldn't it be fun if we did like a, is this a real quote from this movie game with her, right? Because like, you could break out, "Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick? It's nice." And then you could break out, "There's cum. All over the sheets." Right? And you would get like forty-five lines deep.

• 14:21Chris Ryan?

  No, that's not how he says it.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  All over. There's no way. Before he got off, impressive.

• 14:28Bill Simmons?

  That would've been a fun game show.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  We could've gone a hundred fifty lines deep before we even had to put the first fake quote in there. It's amazing.

• 14:35Bill Simmons?

  Elizabeth does the live shows for us, and she always watches the movie. On the flight to the location. And we were like, no, no.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  You need a privacy screen.

• 14:45Bill Simmons?

  Please no.

• 14:48Bill Simmons?

  Who is, like, what actress now, Van, would be the Sharon Stone that you would cast in this movie?

• 14:53Speaker 04

  Interesting question.

• 14:54Bill Simmons?

  Because this does feel generational, right? Like, we go through, because there was a Kathleen Turner face, or she would have been in it.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  So, this movie came out at a different time, okay? We have penises now. This movie came out when we had dicks.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  Completely different. We didn't have to pretend like it was something nice about what was happening. It was aggressive. It was primal. Now, I'm trying to think, who could bring that energy? Who could like, who could do that and like, not give a fuck? You know, not care? Maybe like, Margaret Qualley? Maybe she's a little bit like that, you know? I don't know. It's different now, because if you make the movie now, everyone's gonna be so self-aware of everything that's happening. This movie kind of like, careens through its plot with reckless abandon, and it doesn't really care what anyone thinks about it. It would be difficult to like, cast somebody in that role and have them just be completely free.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  I know we like, always end up picking the same person, but is it not Sydney Sweeney?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  Is it not?

• 15:53Bill Simmons?

  I mean, obviously, she could pull it off.

• 15:56Bill Simmons?

  I think, so.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  Wow, you got to pull Sydney Sweeney.

• 16:01Bill Simmons?

  Here, here's the difference, though, with Sharon Stone and why this movie was so important, where she had popped in stuff, but we didn't really have a history with her.

• 16:08Chris Ryan?

  She was good, too. She was like, she had been in a bunch of stuff. She was in Action Jackson.

• 16:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and I remember like, she was in A Reconcilable Differences, which is a great divorce movie, which is not available anywhere. But she was in that in like, 1982. And for 10 years was just bouncing around. What was the?

• 16:25Chris Ryan?

  She was in a Buffalo Law with Steven Seagal.

• 16:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she was in a Seagal movie, and just, Total Recall was probably the biggest movie that she was in, right? She's great in that. So, this was kind of her moment. I don't know who that actress is now.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  The point, the point is, is that like, at this juncture in her career, she was hungry enough to do a movie like this and not hold anything back. So, if we talk about- actresses that are in that situation. Now, we're gonna talk about more established actresses, but like, this is like a controversial role. You have to really go a lot of places that, you know, could end up really being combustible for your career like it was for Elizabeth Berkeley in Showgirls, or could make you like it did for Sharon Stone in Basic.

• 17:03Bill Simmons?

  So they, they get Michael Douglas for fourteen million dollars for this movie, and then he gets kinda semi-approval for who the female star's gonna be. Sharon Stone was the thirteenth choice. She made five hundred thousand dollars, which was, uh, less than fourteen million.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  In, in part, though, because of what you're just saying, right? Like, he really wanted somebody who was equally famous and renowned to kind of, they were anticipating that it would be controversial, right?

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  He wanted Kim Basinger, right?

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was like, I need somebody who's gonna be able to shoulder the load of the, the blowback.

• 17:34Chris Ryan?

  And I do remember, like, you can see it now when you've.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Plenty of blowback in the movie.

• 17:39Chris Ryan?

  When you go on and read about, like, it's released now, she's such a wild card, 'cause she's kinda like, I have nothing to lose, so she's saying crazy shit in interviews. And she was, you know, her, her vibe is not like, I'm a well-established star, I know exactly what I'm doing. She's kinda like, I'm blowing this pot stand before we, I get outta here.

• 18:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, they offered it to Michelle Pfeiffer, who said no, and thank God, 'cause I think that might've actually killed me. If she was in this movie, I'd be dead. I don't know who's hosting this, it wouldn't be me, it would be somebody else. See, are Sharon Stone not nominated for an Oscar for this movie?

• 18:18Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah, I'm sorry, bro.

• 18:22Bill Simmons?

  I'll give you the nominees.

• 18:23Chris Ryan?

  Please do.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 18:24Bill Simmons?

  Emma Thompson wins for Howard's End, Catherine Deneuve for Endogene? Is that how you say it?

• 18:30Chris Ryan?

  Imogene, sure.

• 18:32Bill Simmons?

  Mary McDonnell for Passion Fish, Michelle Pfeiffer for Love Field, and Susan Sarandon for Lorenzo's Oil.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 18:41Bill Simmons?

  I think we could've stuck Sharon in there, guys. I don't know. Like, who else could've done the, this movie made three hundred and fifty-six million dollars.

• 18:49Chris Ryan?

  This is a useful place to ask this, do you take this movie seriously?

• 18:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't.

• 19:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:03Bill Simmons?

  I think it's a great time. My wife hates it because I love Thorne. It's, you said, you've said this a million times. It's a vibes movie.

• 19:10Chris Ryan?

  It is a vibes movie, for sure.

• 19:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I like being in San Francisco. I like watching them smoke. I like the nightclub scene.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:18Bill Simmons?

  I like, Michael Douglas, who we're gonna get to in a second, it's in the running for funniest performance of the 90s.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  It's amazing. It's historic.

• 19:25Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't know it's funny, but everyone else knows it's hilarious. And it's just a fun movie to hang out with.

• 19:32Chris Ryan?

  This run of Paul Verhoeven movies works because even Paul Verhoeven is like, we need to make this funny movie incredibly seriously.

• 19:41Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 19:41Chris Ryan?

  Starship Troopers is kind of the same thing. I think they all know they're in this insane movie about bugs.

• 19:46Bill Simmons?

  I don't think Douglas does.

• 19:48Chris Ryan?

  What's that?

• 19:48Bill Simmons?

  I don't think Michael Douglas knows that this is funny.

• 19:50Chris Ryan?

  I think Michael Douglas knows. I think he's like, for this to work, I have to 100% commit. But if you read that script, you're like, this is bullshit and it's hilarious.

• 20:00Bill Simmons?

  He's 47 when he makes the movie.

• 20:03Speaker 04

  Wow, I still got time.

• 20:04Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Boy.

• 20:12Bill Simmons?

  Probably should have been a younger actor would be my take.

• 20:16Speaker 04

  Come on, man.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 20:18Bill Simmons?

  You say no on that?

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Well, first of all, I support an age difference, as you know, you know, among consenting adults. But I, I think there's something about Nick being in like a midlife crisis that's actually pretty important. He's had a marriage. His wife killed herself. He has committed four shootings in five years.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  He was undercover.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  He has to have the runway to have lived that much life, you know?

• 20:42Speaker 04

  You can't have like a 25-year-old whippersnapper on the force. You need somebody with some redneck ledger in there.

• 20:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:48Chris Ryan?

  Here's the thing. He is one of the biggest movie stars who throughout his career routinely takes a chance with the way the audience sees him. And is like, I don't mind playing the hero who's a piece of shit.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:00Chris Ryan?

  And he, no, he's like, not, he's the main star of Wall Street. You know, he is, does these things where he's like, I'll push my My boat out and make sure we people have a really provocative experience.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  When you say like how the audience sees him, do you mean specifically him walking toward a bathroom?

• 21:14Chris Ryan?

  Twinging his ass cheeks together.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  With his strom, um, swinging under his ass.

• 21:18Chris Ryan?

  So that his balls don't swing, yes.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  And like, consider the time, right? So you're in a Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, which we're gonna talk a lot, little bit about that later, time where all of those guys are kinda competing to be the all-American movie star. And really, his lane is being the freak. He's a fucking freak.

• 21:38Chris Ryan?

  A yuppie freak.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  Disclosure, he's a freak in this, he's a fucking freak in Fatal Attraction. This motherfucker's a freak. And no, and no one else really wants to do it. He'll do it, he's great at it, and he kinda makes his career, at least the second half of it on that.

• 21:52Bill Simmons?

  We've, he's been in a lot of rewatched those movies. He's not anyone's favorite actor, but he's been in a ton of everybody's favorite movies.

• 22:00Chris Ryan?

  It would be weird to be a Michael Douglas superfan.

• 22:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 04

  This is my guy. Me and Mike.

• 22:06Bill Simmons?

  But I mean.

• 22:06Chris Ryan?

  My site, MikeyDougFan.com.

• 22:10Bill Simmons?

  From eighty-four on, he rips off From Mates in the Stone, Jewel of the Nile, Chorus Line, Fatal Attraction, Wall Street, wins the Oscar. Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, Falling Down, Disclosure, American President, Ghost in Darkness, The Game, Perfect Murder, Wonder Boys, Traffic.

• 22:26Chris Ryan?

  You're fucking crazy.

• 22:28Speaker 04

  That is, um, that's amazing work.

• 22:31Bill Simmons?

  And very good work.

• 22:32Chris Ryan?

  American President is the weird movie in that group.

• 22:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:36Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 22:36Chris Ryan?

  I keep waiting for the American President to be like jerking off under the Resolute Desk, but he's like, no, I'm just a really good guy.

• 22:42Bill Simmons?

  It's in the, it's on the extended Blu-ray.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, director's cut.

• 22:46Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you're, you're younger than us. What's your relationship with Michael Douglas? Just, what, just wandering into this after the fact? I don't even think I have one. I, I don't know what to go to Michael Douglas role.

• 22:56Chris Ryan?

  I asked my wife, Liz, I'm like, what's your opinion on Michael Douglas? Like, did you ever think he was hot? And she's like, honestly, no, he's just kind of a creep.

• 23:04Chris Ryan?

  Was Michael Douglas ever like a top three love interest in Hollywood?

• 23:08Speaker 04

  Man, let me tell you something.

• 23:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  My mom, I was about to say, my mom used to look at Bayla Traction and be like, "Mm, mm, mm." I see what she was going on about. Look at that.

• 23:19Chris Ryan?

  Could you say he's Harrison Ford, Dark Side Harrison Ford? No way.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  No, because Harrison Ford is god tier. You can't say anyone is any version of Harrison Ford.

• 23:26Chris Ryan?

  I asked the wrong person.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 23:28Chris Ryan?

  What are you thinking?

• 23:29Speaker 03

  What's wrong with you? But Harrison Ford, Costner, Douglas, Gere, those were the men who my mom was like obsessed with and loved. And, uh, Michael Douglas was the one who didn't quite catch for me in terms of being like sexually obsessed with him. Though I will tell you guys that when I booted up this movie to prepare, to re-watch it, to prepare for this live show, you know, there's a pretty famous moment in this movie that I think a lot of people pause on, right? You might, well, it'll come up tonight, I think. I had paused at a different moment. I booted up the director's cut and it was at 1 hour, 11 minutes and 43 seconds, which is the side cock shot during the fuck of the century scene.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  So I guess that was where I had just checked in, booted it up at some point, taken a look, paused it, left. And there it was, waiting for me.

• 24:19Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that was in between the two re-watchables?

• 24:22Speaker 03

  That seems right. Probably. Yeah. I mean, it was six years ago, the last re-watchables. I've definitely looked at that since. No question.

• 24:38Bill Simmons?

  I thought we were gonna do side cocks later.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  Well, we can, we can go back to them. Don't worry.

• 24:45Bill Simmons?

  One thing about Douglas, because he was also a producer.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:48Bill Simmons?

  Really good timing on when to jump in on a movie that's kind of paralle- paralleling whatever's happening in real life. Like, even you go back to China Syndrome, which he's in, which was like right whenever. Everyone's afraid of nuclear war in the late 70s. Wall Street is the greed is good. Basic Instinct, big fear of AIDS, early 90s. And he, one of the, in the research, one of the things he really wanted to do with this movie was push the envelope sexually the other way in movies. And then Disclosure was another one with Workplace.

• 25:18Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 25:18Bill Simmons?

  Brass movie. He just, over and over again, had really good taste.

• 25:22Chris Ryan?

  Sure. That's one way of putting it, yeah.

• 25:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  A framing, yeah.

• 25:27Bill Simmons?

  Mallory saw, what was the documentary you saw with the storyboarding?

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. There's a bonus featurette called, I believe, Blonde Poison? Yeah. Blonde Poison, The Making of Basic Instinct, which is about 30-ish minutes. A good chunk of it at the end is about actually the protests of the film.

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  By LGBT groups. And I would say the first, like, 15 to 18 minutes before that are largely Paul Verhoeven.

• 25:57Bill Simmons?

  The director.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  The director, talking about how he just insisted very clearly that everybody understood that they had to be naked in the movie and that they had to follow the exact game plan for the sex scenes because he had diagrammed them very precisely. And then intercut with his commentary.

• 26:14Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna hold up one for you guys.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:19Bill Simmons?

  Paul Verhoeven's work, right there.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Pretty special. Pretty special.

• 26:23Bill Simmons?

  So he storyboarded the entire thing.

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:26Bill Simmons?

  They spent five days filming Fuck of the Century.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Five, yeah.

• 26:29Bill Simmons?

  Because he was so concerned that they were gonna make him cut stuff and make it an X rating, or whatever. He wanted to be covered in every way, shape, or form.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:38Bill Simmons?

  And they filmed for five days, 10 hours a day. A 90-second sex scene?

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Ah, if you're watching the director's cut, it's a little longer.

• 26:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And also, Michael Douglas and Sharon Stone, apparently, were not, like, super close during the making of this, which makes it all the more interesting.

• 26:54Speaker 03

  Close in what way?

• 26:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, I think that there wasn't a lot of coffee corner, like, just chit chat about, like, real.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  He didn't want it to be in the movie.

• 27:01Chris Ryan?

  Was that?

• 27:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like, they had gone through a bunch of people and he was concerned because he's making this movie where he's gotta play a killer, coke-addicted cop. And he wanted an A-list actress to share that burden with him and get it over the finish line. And all of them looked at the script and was like, "You fucking crazy? I'm not doing this." And so then, like, they got Sharon Stone, but he was a little bit trepidatious about it.

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  Man, I hesitate to ask you this.

• 27:31Bill Simmons?

  If you were filming with Sharon Stone for five straight days for 10 hours a day, just with small genital pads on, how would that go by like Wednesday?

• 27:42Speaker 04

  Well, see, I always wondered this, cuz like...

• 27:45Speaker 03

  First of all, you have to respond and say the genital pad wouldn't be small. He set you up there. You have to come in and say that. But they were also not wearing genital pads. They are famously completely naked filming this.

• 27:56Speaker 04

  Oh, so they're naked filming?

• 27:57Bill Simmons?

  I thought they did have...

• 27:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:59Chris Ryan?

  Also, to Mal's point...

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Watch this featurette. Here's a quote. From the director of this movie. "I wanted to really see oral sex. I wanted to see how he sucks her tits. I wanted to see all that."

• 28:17Bill Simmons?

  Thank you, everybody. Goodnight.

• 28:22Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how they do it. I guess that's why they act for a living. They really...

• 28:25Chris Ryan?

  None of us have seen this behind the scenes, and I'm not entirely sure she's not like making this up. Because I looked for it online, and I was like, huh, block poison. I can't find this.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  I'll send it to you.

• 28:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, please do.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Just like I said, I sent you those storyboard pictures, yeah.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  The weird thing is also, there's like stories that the actors sold that Verhoeven was like... He would be like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. Here's the blocking. And then they would show up day of, and he would be like, "Psyche her all my new storyboards." And he would be like, calling hot routes on Gene Triplehorn.

• 28:57Chris Ryan?

  I don't know. I technically have heard, but yeah.

• 29:01Bill Simmons?

  Verhoeven, Robocop, Total Recall, Basic and Sticks, Starship Troopers. Just four of the many. Just a pervy Dutch guy. I think would be the best way to describe him.

• 29:13Bill Simmons?

  Love pushing the envelope. Love to put stuff in there, kinda making fun of Americans, and we didn't realize it as we loved the movies. Didn't realize he was flipping it on us. What's his, what's his apex mountain for movies, CR?

• 29:26Chris Ryan?

  I think in retrospect, it's Starship Troopers.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I think so.

• 29:29Chris Ryan?

  In some ways.

• 29:29Speaker 04

  Really?

• 29:30Chris Ryan?

  I think that has like a better reputation than Basic Instinct.

• 29:33Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. What do you think, Ben?

• 29:34Speaker 04

  I think it's easily Basic Instinct. I think it's not even close. I think Starship Troopers has, he has this ability to elevate, I guess, what people would consider to be like trash or really accessible kind of stories. But Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon. It was a movie that like legitimately, my mom and them went to see it and they came back and it was like, girl, was he just stabbing with that ice pick? What's going on? Like, it was a movie that you absolutely had to talk about. And really, as much as Fatal Attraction got this genre started in a, in a mainstream way.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  Definitely did, yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  This kind of solidified the genre as a moneymaker and as something that could like be star making for Sharon Stone. Like, you would approach these movies differently after Basic Instinct, because you know that doing one and taking the risk and taking the chances in like putting yourself out there on film like that could end up in making you a star, which is what this movie did for Sharon Stone. So she did all of this stuff and then it paid off. So I think this is probably his magnum opus, in my opinion.

• 30:38Bill Simmons?

  I also think it's fair to say that there weren't really characters like this until this movie. Like, these kind of powerful female in control of the relationship, like this-

• 30:50Speaker 04

  Look at Susan B. Anthony over here.

• 30:53Bill Simmons?

  This became something that a lot of movies tried to do, but I don't know who tried to do it before this movie. I can't really think of one. Can you, CR?

• 31:02Chris Ryan?

  A femme fatale like this? No, not, I mean, like, not this explicitly and this violently.

• 31:07Bill Simmons?

  Cause like Body Heat did it, right?

• 31:08Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 31:08Bill Simmons?

  That was 10 years earlier. And there's some other ones over the years, but I, I think this jumpstarted then. What was interesting about this movie is all the ripoff terrible movies that tried to-

• 31:18Chris Ryan?

  Yes, some of which Sharon Stone participated in, yeah.

• 31:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Sliver. I've seen them all. I know Van has them all on Blu-ray. This movie had people protesting various parts of it, like they couldn't even decide what to protest. Sharon Stone hosted SNL in April 92 and six people disrupted that and actually disrupted the monologue and they had to like, uh, change it. But people are pretty pissed off for a variety of reasons about this movie. Joe Esterhaus was the writer.

• 31:52Bill Simmons?

  $3 million got for the script. There's a bidding war from Carol Coe Productions. So if anyone has ever listened to the Rewatchables, probably our favorite production company.

• 32:00Chris Ryan?

  More or less, yeah.

• 32:01Bill Simmons?

  Done a lot of Stallone, Segal, Arnold Schwarzenegger classics, basic instinct.

• 32:04Chris Ryan?

  Funding from...

• 32:05Bill Simmons?

  Craig's nodding happily over there.

• 32:06Speaker 05

  Lot of cocaine, yeah.

• 32:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Chris Ryan?

  Esterhaus is basically in a competition with Shane Black, who we just talked about on Nice Guys. He, these two are like basically trading back and forth the like all-time richest screenplay deal for like five years.

• 32:21Bill Simmons?

  Right. And then Esterhaus gets mad because Verhoeven's putting all this extra stuff in the movie, ends up walking off the set. $49 million budget made $353 million, the fourth highest grossing movie of 1992.

• 32:35Speaker 05

  That would be 800 million today.

• 32:38Chris Ryan?

  This would be Project Hail Mary today.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  Amaze, amaze, amaze.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  For an aggressive, R-rated erotic thing.

• 32:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, so this is an interesting topic. Could this happen anymore? Do people want to be in a movie theater watching people fuck like this for $350 million?

• 32:55Speaker 04

  Like because of Craig's generation.

• 32:58Chris Ryan?

  No, no.

• 32:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's Craig's generation.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  We were doing, I can't remember what movie we were doing.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Bunch of prudes.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  And this was the time, you know, after Craig said that he would shoot somebody in the heart and that changed my opinion of him forever. But we were watching a movie and Craig said, "There were just titties in the movie for no reason."

• 33:17Speaker 04

  And I was thinking to myself, "How much fucking distance is it between me and Craig?

• 33:23Speaker 04

  Whenever titties show up, I am happy to meet them."

• 33:28Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  And Craig was uncomfortable with it. Thank you.

• 33:33Speaker 05

  Well, and now 200 movies later, I'm like bummed when there's no nudity in a movie.

• 33:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we've dreamed of that.

• 33:40Speaker 05

  Come on.

• 33:42Bill Simmons?

  Film score got an Oscar nomination, Jerry Goldsmith. Jan DeBott worked in the cameras.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  Jan DeBott?

• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah. Little Jan, couple of years for Speed.

• 33:53Bill Simmons?

  Craig. 112 minutes, plus 22 on the Horrill Beck's. Craig thinks every movie should be 90 minutes.

• 33:58Speaker 05

  22 over par.

• 34:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 05

  But you can kind of skip right to the sex scenes now. It doesn't really matter how long it is, you know? Everything's, everything's clipified now, you know?

• 34:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that second half of the movie probably could be tightened, I would say.

• 34:12Chris Ryan?

  Also, the last 25 minutes of this movie, you're like, what the fuck is happening?

• 34:17Speaker 04

  It turns into a whodunit. By the way, the movie would have been longer if Shooter could last. Shooter has a premature ejaculation problem.

• 34:25Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  Shooter's in it, ah!

• 34:28Bill Simmons?

  Uh, here comes Nine Minute Van weighing in.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Nine Minute Van!

• 34:32Speaker 04

  At minimum.

• 34:35Bill Simmons?

  Do we know?

• 34:35Speaker 04

  At minimum, ladies.

• 34:36Bill Simmons?

  Do we know he had a premature, or was it just edited that way? Thank God we have Mallory here to answer the question.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  If I would have been him, I'd have been like, ay, yo, on God, like, for real, for real, for real? Like, give me at least two extra minutes so people know how I move out here in this motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? I can't have people thinking that the credits gonna roll, I'm gonna be popping before it's, you know what I'm saying?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  The Beth scene, unfortunate in many respects, including this one, very quick. But the Catherine scenes, I don't know. I think, like, we see her orgasm so many different times, including from the single most memorable part of the movie, which is him going down on her, maintaining eye contact the entire time and going cross-eyed, like he's trying to, like, identify a unicorn in a magic eye painting.

• 35:19Chris Ryan?

  I'm just like...

• 35:22Chris Ryan?

  When I see, when we do these, I never, ever, ever want to have sex again. Like, every time we do, like, a Muppet version of someone going down on something, it just kills me.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  But then he's on top, the back scratch, then she's on top, right? So we're, we're going through some pretty protracted sequences there.

• 35:45Speaker 04

  Like, he went down on her, like, girl, you think I wasn't gonna do this, did you?

• 35:48Speaker 03

  I know, he was really impressed with himself.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then he watched his own blowjob in the, the mirror. Where are you guys on bedroom ceiling mirrors?

• 35:58Chris Ryan?

  What, what part of the podcast is this?

• 36:01Speaker 03

  What do you think?

• 36:03Speaker 04

  I always, like, see myself and like, yo, nigga, you need to work out.

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Like, we had gone to the islands, and my titties lay to the side.

• 36:24Bill Simmons?

  It was one of, during the MTV Cribs era, it was one of those when somebody had the bedroom mirror, you really knew some freak shit was going down. It was always a red flag.

• 36:34Speaker 03

  Or they wanted you to think that.

• 36:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was one or the other. It was definitely a statement. Uh, speaking of statements, Roger Ebert.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:45Bill Simmons?

  Two stars.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  What a mess.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  You can't boo, y'all can't boo Raj, man.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  Yes, they can.

• 36:52Bill Simmons?

  He said, "The film is like a crossword puzzle. It keeps your interest until you solve it."

• 36:58Bill Simmons?

  "And then it's just a worthless scrap with the spaces filled in."

• 37:02Speaker 04

  God damn.

• 37:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to give him a fuck you Raj, but I'm gonna give him like a borderline fuck you Rush. Just a whiff. I don't like that. Two and a half, give it a two and a half, come on.

• 37:14Chris Ryan?

  I'm surprised he didn't give it a two and a half. Like, two is like, this is a very well-made movie, even if you think it's absolute garbage.

• 37:20Speaker 05

  I think he was just really upset by the ending mainly. I think he kinda liked it, but he was upset about the ice pick at the end.

• 37:25Bill Simmons?

  He just knocked the star off at the end.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  The reason why the review surprises me is because the movie takes itself very seriously. And it's well-made, well-acted, and well-crafted. There's some really insanely well-crafted scenes here. It's not throwing anything away. So you would think that he would respect the craftsmanship a little bit more than like what he did.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  It's a pretty like critically derided film.

• 37:46Speaker 04

  It is.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  I mean, a lot of the reviews are bad. It's adored by the public, right? But it's not like everybody, it's not like Raj was on an island with that.

• 37:55Chris Ryan?

  No, it's tough. Like, there's like Sharon Stone talks about like thinking like, "I've made, like, I've done it. I made double indemnity. People are gonna love this."

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Well, wait till she hears this podcast. Then she's gonna know that's true.

• 38:07Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. If I had to pick the greatest movie of my lifetime, I was born 1969. Man, I'm old. I think the greatest movie is The Godfather. For all the great actors that were in it, that they caught at various stages of their career, Brando, Al Pacino, James Caan, Robert Duvall, Coppola, who had, you know, was not really on the map yet. You have this famous, famous book, and they somehow pull all of it off. And the big thing is that movie just infiltrates pop culture from the day it comes out in 1972, all the way through to now, in all these different ways. And that

• 38:49Bill Simmons?

  is why I think it's the greatest movie of my lifetime. Finding someone or something that's perfect for you, like The Godfather, isn't always easy. If you're hiring, I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. You have to go through hundreds of resumes just to find one person, which is exhausting unless you use ZipRecruiter, because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rewatchables. Using its smart matching technology, ZipRecruiter does most of the work finding qualified candidates for your role. And it now has a new feature, that's right, new feature, that pushes candidates who are interested in your job to the top of your list. So you're talking with people who have the skills and passion that you're looking for. First, cut through the standard and get to the

• 39:34Bill Simmons?

  standouts with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rewatchables. That is ziprecruiter.com/rewatchables. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Well, so for the rewatchables, if you haven't heard any of the pods we've done, we do categories to break down the movie. First category is most rewatchable scene.

• 40:12Bill Simmons?

  We'll give you some runner-up nominees.

• 40:18Bill Simmons?

  Incredible opening murder scene, right into the police showing up.

• 40:24Bill Simmons?

  And dialogue that goes, "There's cum stains all over the sheets."

• 40:30Bill Simmons?

  So, let's talk about it now.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  I would love to.

• 40:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Bill Simmons?

  Johnny Bos, just that night, no maid.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  No, there is a maid. This is part of what? I have to sit on unanswerable questions.

• 40:41Chris Ryan?

  She's a rather rotund maid. They even pointed out.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's 54 and 240, and so they say she couldn't be the murderer, which is pretty fucked up, honestly. Not the only fucked up thing in the movie, but...

• 40:50Bill Simmons?

  Because they blew like this, and it's, it looks like a sundae.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  It loo-, it looks like... Is everyone tracking Artemis right now, the NASA photos? Bos's sheets under the black light look like the face of the moon that NASA is currently showing us. Splattered craters everywhere.

• 41:09Chris Ryan?

  So, he either is Mount Vesuvius.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:12Chris Ryan?

  One night only, or...

• 41:15Speaker 03

  He's never washing his sheets.

• 41:16Chris Ryan?

  His bedroom is a no-go zone for the maid. And those sheets have not been changed in weeks.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  Yes. I think it's that.

• 41:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Bill Simmons?

  Dan, do you have a theory? I bet you do. On the sheets with the no maid, or just...

• 41:30Chris Ryan?

  Is it one night?

• 41:31Speaker 04

  There's a gentleman by the name of Peter North, who, throughout the course of his career, was able to set records. And if you guys don't know who he is, you'll be amazed. And so, when I think of this movie, I think about talent, not necessarily about, like, function. So, it wasn't the fact that he was doing it a lot. It was like, when he was doing it, I'm talking about fucking fire hose.

• 41:53Bill Simmons?

  So, my question is, if you're getting stabbed to death with an ice pick as you're coming...

• 41:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:59Bill Simmons?

  Is that like a triple cum shot? Sorry to be crude, but that's... If the maid's not coming, that has to be the only other explanation.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  I just don't think the human body contains that much ejaculate at one period of time, whether or not you're-

• 42:14Speaker 05

  Wait, though-

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Have Sharon Stone thrusting on top of you-

• 42:17Speaker 05

  Why are you gonna tell us about our-

• 42:18Speaker 03

  And you're about to be stabbed 31 times with an ice pick.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  Not to get too graphic here, but like, isn't-

• 42:22Speaker 03

  I think it's fine, go ahead.

• 42:23Speaker 05

  Isn't Johnny Bos inside Catherine Tramell?

• 42:26Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 42:27Speaker 05

  Why is there semen everywhere?

• 42:28Chris Ryan?

  I think the idea also is they have done it multiple times that night. That this is like, it's Johnny Bos's fuck of the century, you know?

• 42:38Speaker 03

  That's right. Cocaine on the penis, so...

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  Anyone second guessing their decision to come tonight, or?

• 42:44Speaker 03

  I'm having a great time.

• 42:46Bill Simmons?

  I think you guys knew what you were coming for. The woman in the opening scene, by the way, was Sharon Stone.

• 42:52Speaker 05

  It didn't seem like it, though.

• 42:53Bill Simmons?

  Because they have her hair covered, but it is her and Verhoeven.

• 42:56Speaker 05

  Almost seems like she's in a wig. They put her in a blonde wig, I think, to make you think it could be- Somebody else, yeah. Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  There's some pretty clear indicators, but-

• 43:04Bill Simmons?

  CR, would you wanna go this way? If like, you could pick 10 different ways to die with the Johnny Bos being the top 3?

• 43:10Chris Ryan?

  I would be, I would be so thrilled to find out what the other ones would be that would top this.

• 43:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, okay.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  This is like the Tyrion Lannister. You know, how he's always saying he wants to go with a belly full of wine and some lips around his cock? Like, it's the Johnny Bos.

• 43:26Bill Simmons?

  Another quote from this scene, "He got off before he got off."

• 43:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Bill Simmons?

  That's where you know you're in the right hands. Next scene, the first visit to Sharon Stone's house.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 43:37Bill Simmons?

  Catherine Tramell. We get a great, great Bay Area drive. Amazing house.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Gorgeous.

• 43:43Speaker 05

  Fantastic.

• 43:44Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna give this the Den of Thieves Benihana Award scene stealing location, CR, unless you wanna jump me.

• 43:49Chris Ryan?

  This is the nightclub.

• 43:51Bill Simmons?

  Really nice, good deck.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Great deck.

• 43:55Bill Simmons?

  And-

• 43:56Chris Ryan?

  Great deck.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Great deck.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  Great deck.

• 43:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  Insane deck.

• 44:00Chris Ryan?

  Great landscaping.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:01Bill Simmons?

  Girthy dick.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  It is impressive landscaping.

• 44:05Bill Simmons?

  Catherine Tramell comes in throwing 120 miles an hour right away. "I wasn't dating him, I was fucking him."

• 44:11Speaker 03

  Man.

• 44:11Bill Simmons?

  "What are you, a pro?" "I'm an amateur." "I wasn't in the mood last night, are you sorry he's dead?" "Yeah, I liked fucking him."

• 44:18Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 44:19Bill Simmons?

  She's just throwing him off left and right.

• 44:22Speaker 05

  Bill's talking this way.

• 44:23Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't seem that upset.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Well, she's, that's part of the appeal of Catherine as a character is she is so utterly in command and assured. And there's something disarming and terrifying about it, but also something so appealing. So like the whole movie, the thriller, the erotic thriller aspect is a cat and mouse chase where like the mouse wants to be caught so that he can fuck Catherine, right? And you have to understand that like immediately, which you do.

• 44:51Bill Simmons?

  Then we have another rewatchable scene, the second house visit to the car ride, which includes her changing. That's how we know she's not wearing underwear. They're in the car. I don't smoke. Yes, you do. I quit. Congratulations. All of a sudden she has cigarettes. What's your new book about? A detective. He falls for the wrong woman. What happens? He kills her. Douglas is like, I'm fucking in. This is, I am all the way in. Good shot of, what part of San Francisco are we in there?

• 45:25Chris Ryan?

  Well, they were driving up to Stinson, but the house in real life was in Carmel, but they're driving up to Stinson Beach, which shouts out Scott and Natalia got married in Stinson Beach. They're here somewhere. There they are.

• 45:36Bill Simmons?

  Next scene is the police room scene.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:40Bill Simmons?

  One of, I think the most famous scenes of the 90s. And we also have Newman from Seinfeld, the Nettie Harris from Major League in there.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Sure do.

• 45:48Chris Ryan?

  The factoid, which I don't know if it's true that Spielberg hired him off of this is unreal. That was Steven Spielberg's takeaway from this scene. Jurassic Park, I got that guy.

• 46:02Bill Simmons?

  Right. What are you gonna do? A recipe for smoking? Good line. Johnny liked to use his hands too much. I like hands and fingers. Another quote. Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick?

• 46:19Speaker 03

  It's nice. Iconic.

• 46:22Chris Ryan?

  It's not how she says it. It'd be funny if she did. She's like, it's nice. She just turns into Borat for a second.

• 46:33Bill Simmons?

  Borat, basically.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  My wife. It's nice.

• 46:38Chris Ryan?

  He's dead.

• 46:39Bill Simmons?

  And then we get the

• 46:43Bill Simmons?

  Leg cross, which became.

• 46:46Chris Ryan?

  Iconic. Highly controversial.

• 46:47Bill Simmons?

  The most famous moment of the 90s in a movie? I'm trying to think what's bigger.

• 46:53Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Miggs? From Silence of the Lambs? Alright, is that like 80s?

• 46:57Bill Simmons?

  Biggest holy shit moment?

• 46:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 04

  It's tell, I was like, I remember my dad, rest in peace dad. Dad was like.

• 47:06Speaker 04

  That, uh, boy? Go back a couple of seconds, nah?

• 47:12Speaker 04

  I, I honestly think, and when I watched it, I caught it, I've never looked. This is one of the, this is one of the most well-written scenes of the 90s.

• 47:21Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 47:21Speaker 04

  Um, so when you think about the movie, right? The movie is about basic, the movie, you guys think I'm about to be freaky? I'm about to be like, okay, can I, let me cook for a second? The movie, Basic Instinct, it's about primal urges, right? Things that you cannot control.

• 47:36Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  But the movie only works if you understand how dangerous Catherine is.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 47:44Speaker 04

  And how much he can't resist her. So that scene is in conflict because that scene has to establish how dangerous she is. But it also can't betray the fact that we see how dangerous she is. All of these police officers see how dangerous she is. And he still has to be primarily drawn to her. So she has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room.

• 48:10Bill Simmons?

  By the way, so does the audience.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  Exactly, right?

• 48:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  Exactly, for us as well. She has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room. But if she is smarter than everybody in the room, it breaks the deal with the audience because then you go, well, we know that she's the murderer. We know that she's gaming them. Why would he still want her? Then she lets that thang out.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  And let me tell you something right now, to all the ladies in the audience. If you want to end the arri- the, the argument or the speculation, let that thang out.

• 48:44Speaker 04

  If you let that thing out, you win. All right? Stop playing the game. I wanna play MLB. Let that thing out. He off the game. Okay? And so, when that happens, that reinjects this primal urge into the scene, and it completely wipes his mind, and our mind, and everybody else. He gotta go get that thing.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:07Bill Simmons?

  And Newman violated some HR laws, I think. Newman's like...

• 49:12Speaker 03

  Well... I was gonna hit this in Unanswerable Questions, but he's not in the movie after that? It's like, did seeing Catherine's vagina kill him? Yeah, he had a fucking heart attack. Did the SEC DA drop fucking dead in the bathroom stall, cranking one out 10 minutes after that? Everyone else is looking at the lie detector and is like, "You can beat the machine." "No, you can't beat the machine." And Newman is dropping dead after having seen Catherine flash in. So he's not in the director's cut?

• 49:43Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 49:43Speaker 03

  It's just, he makes an early impression, and that's it. I think Van's point is really important, cuz like, there are five dudes in that interrogation for no reason other than that every... She, like, they're all rapt, right? And so, the fact that the trick of that, in addition to the very obvious one, is that she is like in command and there in her power, even though she is so clearly should be the one who's like, "What is happening here?" Even the way that scene is lit, the way it's staged, like, that doesn't look like an interrogation room at all, right? It looks like she's like on display at a gallery.

• 50:16Bill Simmons?

  So, there was controversy about that scene.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:19Bill Simmons?

  That we should mention. She said it was filmed without her knowledge, and it turned into a he said, she said. I forget what year this started.

• 50:26Chris Ryan?

  In her memoir, Sharon Stone says that they asked her to take her underwear off because it was affecting the lighting.

• 50:33Speaker 05

  Which, I mean...

• 50:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And then, she saw a cut, and her and her lawyer, Marty Singer, were gonna basically stop the movie from coming out. They were gonna... And then she just... But then she was like, "You know what? Like, I signed up for it. That is me." And she decided to do it, but not without reservations.

• 50:52Bill Simmons?

  And then it wasn't in the script either. And Berhoven, pervy Dutch guy, remembered something similar happening when he was in college and decided to weave it in. Anyway.

• 51:04Chris Ryan?

  Cool college story.

• 51:05Bill Simmons?

  Yes. Record scratch.

• 51:09Bill Simmons?

  Quick, quick one.

• 51:11Chris Ryan?

  I was in college and she took that thing out.

• 51:14Speaker 03

  And I stopped playing MLB the show.

• 51:16Chris Ryan?

  I stopped playing FIFA and that is the end of the argument.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Thing out. Child, ladies.

• 51:21Bill Simmons?

  Van's down with the Dutch. The car chase is really good, just wanted to mention that.

• 51:26Speaker 04

  Really good.

• 51:26Bill Simmons?

  She kinda does some in the car chase.

• 51:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:29Bill Simmons?

  Come on, shoot her.

• 51:31Speaker 04

  She was in a Porsche or something like that.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  A Lotus.

• 51:34Speaker 04

  A Lotus.

• 51:35Bill Simmons?

  Nick stops by Catherine's place and she uses the ice pick and does the, uh, how much coke should you do, Nick? You're gonna make a terrific character. She's making out with Roxy in front of him. That scene's good.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:45Bill Simmons?

  The Catherine.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  And all the papers are there, right? So he starts to realize in that sequence, like, how much she knows about him, how she's studying him.

• 51:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:53Bill Simmons?

  And then she stops by Nick's place, she does the ice pick thing for him.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Shoot her.

• 51:57Bill Simmons?

  He's, now he's smoking cigs. You know the wheels are coming off. He's drinking, he's ordering doubles at the bar, he's smoking. And now we're going to my favorite scene. Nick goes to the nightclub.

• 52:11Bill Simmons?

  We get the song we played earlier, Blue by, what was that band? Latour?

• 52:15Speaker 04

  Latour.

• 52:16Bill Simmons?

  Latour?

• 52:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. Latour.

• 52:17Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Nick's the oldest guy in the club by, I'm gonna say, 16 years.

• 52:23Bill Simmons?

  He's wearing a v-neck shirt that his aunt gave him for Christmas in 1985.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 52:29Bill Simmons?

  He's like, "I'll wear this, I haven't worn this yet." And, uh, goes into the bathroom, which is, has, has anyone ever been in a bathroom like this? There's 50 people in the bathroom. They're all doing cocaine, they're playing like cards. I don't know, what bathroom is this?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Most of the characters on Industry, we were talking about this last night. This is like, this is like a regular third episode of a season of Industry. Yeah.

• 52:52Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, Van is fucking quiet right now. I'll just, just tell you. So Van, you...

• 52:57Speaker 04

  What happened?

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 53:00Bill Simmons?

  Roxy is throwing, I think, 130 miles an hour in this scene.

• 53:05Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:05Bill Simmons?

  The catcher's mitt actually breaks.

• 53:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:07Bill Simmons?

  She breaks the mitt.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 53:09Bill Simmons?

  And Douglas is, I, again, I'll put this against Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber. I'll put this against Mike Myers in So I Married Naxberger. Name a funny movie. Nothing's funnier than... Than Douglas in this scene, trying to be sexy, I'm not too old to be here, dance guy.

• 53:29Bill Simmons?

  It's really special.

• 53:30Chris Ryan?

  The only thing that could have been funnier is if he danced. But he makes the choice to be like, what would this guy do at this club, seeing all this shit? This is like every primal instinct coming out, and he's just like, I would just stand there.

• 53:44Bill Simmons?

  So, so you're watching, you're like, this has to be the unintentionally funniest thing that's gonna happen with Michael Douglas in this movie. Think again. Because we go to the sex scene, where he also gets up after and wins the William Peterson, honestly dude, I'm not sure we needed to see your balls award.

• 54:04Bill Simmons?

  Does it twice, does the walk, talks to Roxy, does the let me ask you something Roxy, man to man. Then does the pivot and does another walk. He's like, did you see my balls throwing butt crack? Yeah, here they are again.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:19Bill Simmons?

  He's just feeling it.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  And the side dick before that.

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  So this is what happens when you've made 10 straight years of hundred billion dollar movies. You just start walking around in the bathroom.

• 54:32Bill Simmons?

  This is just the tour de force. Anything to add, Mal, before we move on?

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Hmm, I think this is a very important scene. We've talked about the side dick, the oral sex face, watching the blowjob in the mirror. I think the fact that in terms of just actually the clues, not that you're really thinking about the clues, but it is like beat for beat, parallel to what we saw in the vase scene. So you're very titillated by what you're seeing, but you're like, is he gonna get stabbed by an ice pick, right? And like even the folds of the bedding. Yeah, the, the headboard has like the slats so that she can tie him up, breaks out the Hermes or Hermes, as it is called in this film. Astonishing stuff, scarf out and ties him up. It's just start to finish, pretty incredible.

• 55:15Speaker 03

  The tearing of the, the back flesh, I think that these are some of the most guttural orgasm sounds ever committed to the public record on film. And, you know, when I was younger, watching this for the first time, I was like, it reminds me of. How I think people today read like Fourth Wing or Court of Thorns and Roses and they're like, I'm taking notes. Okay, this is how you could do something to like lead to a 27-page chapter about going down on your girlfriend on a throne. Got it. Okay. Like, people were watching this, studying it, trying to learn, not you.

• 55:45Chris Ryan?

  Like, the girlfriend is also like a dragon fairy, right?

• 55:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, there are fairies in Court of Thorns and Roses. I can tell you've read them, dragon riders in Fourth Wing. And then you watch this now as like a middle-aged person. And like the angling of the back, I'm like, is she about to like turn into Nagini? Like, I just worry about everybody's pain. I see them looking into the mirror up top. I'm like, if I had that now, I would just say like, are my hips properly aligned? So that I'm not gonna wake up with lower back pain? It's a very different relationship as you age.

• 56:22Chris Ryan?

  It's an amazing athletic performance.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  It is. It is.

• 56:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't know what his dick looks like the next day, but it's not going straight.

• 56:36Bill Simmons?

  There's definitely a couple turns.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  I have two more scenes. Nick goes see Catherine the next day. And she kinda deflates the balloon a little bit.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:49Bill Simmons?

  Roxy didn't know what she was in for. Oh, she's seen me fuck other guys, just like sticking it to him. I told her I thought it was the fuck of the century. I thought it was a good beginning.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  Say, Nick came in that bitch like he was the man.

• 57:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:02Speaker 04

  I thought it was the fuck of the century. Is he still wearing the sweater or did he change? I can't remember if he wears the sweater.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's the bomber, he is the bomber.

• 57:09Speaker 04

  All of a sudden, he's become Danny Zuko. Like, he went from being like a regular cop to now he's the coolest motherfucker in the world. She's like, yo, dog, pump the brakes. I used to fuck a boxer. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, get the fuck out of here.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  And then...

• 57:27Bill Simmons?

  Just the ending with the twist where you think she's gonna kill him. I think those are all the rewatchable scenes. What do you got, CR? What's your most rewatchable?

• 57:34Chris Ryan?

  Nightclub, 100 out of 100. I mean, the sex scene's cool, but like, the nightclub has so much going on. I love that the drug dealer gets to dance with them, that he's like, "Yeah, you know, like, here's some coke. Can I join?"

• 57:46Speaker 04

  Hey, that black guy is in every 90s movie. For some reason, they got a nigga with a flat top and a vest, no shirt, who knows all the choreography to everything. Isn't, that guy comes back, Glenn Plummer plays that guy in Showgirls. He comes back, he's dancing with a random white girl, he's...

• 58:11Speaker 04

  I'm telling you, that guy, I never saw him in Baton Rouge.

• 58:16Bill Simmons?

  So we all have the nightclub scene, or what do you have, Mel?

• 58:18Speaker 03

  I think it's fuck of the century. I've, across the course of my life, diagrammed that like I'm scoring a baseball game.

• 58:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  Like, that's, it's gotta be that.

• 58:26Speaker 04

  So we're not gonna bring up-

• 58:27Speaker 03

  But nobody's picking the interrogation scene. Wow.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  The interrogation, mine's the interrogation scene, but like, also, but like, the Triple Horn scene, right, which is obviously a very... I mean, come on, man. We're, it's a controversial scene.

• 58:41Bill Simmons?

  It's problematic.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a very problematic scene, but like, he runs, that's the first time we really see them together.

• 58:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:49Speaker 04

  And it's like, very, it shows that legitimately, the moment that he meets Catherine, his character changes immediately. He becomes like, once again, more primal, like more driven by whatever this thing is in his body that he can't control.

• 59:03Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 1992 thing about this movie? What do you have, CR?

• 59:08Chris Ryan?

  That's got Bart Simpson on a keychain.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. Mistaken for a gun at the end.

• 59:15Chris Ryan?

  And he gets fucking killed.

• 59:18Bill Simmons?

  You have one, Ben?

• 59:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, so in this movie, only the attractive people have sex. So there are a bunch of people in the movie, but only the people that look good having sex. If they made this movie right now, there'd be a random scene of Haas hitting someone from the back.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  Like, but in this movie, like, the desirable people, desirable people, they have sex, and everybody else is a bunch of fucking pastrami-eating cops that get to go, "Oh, you fucked that last night's shooter?" We like, like, but in this now, we have democratized sex scenes. So Haas would've got to get down with some Haas and Roxy would've had their little situation if it was happening today.

• 59:59Chris Ryan?

  This is an amazing point, because to the guys on the force, Nick is Austin Butler. Like, they're so fucking gross. They're like, they're even happy when they're like, "Nick is breaking every law, but goddamn, man."

• 1:00:15Bill Simmons?

  I have a couple of 1992 things. Quitting cocaine for three months?

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:00:27Bill Simmons?

  Those green police computer screens really bring me back to the 90s, when you're just trying to read your... I honestly, you'd go blind if you looked at those things for too long.

• 1:00:35Chris Ryan?

  But some of the prompts they're writing there are kind of ChatGPT, where they're like, "What about 1967?" And it's like, "Oh, okay."

• 1:00:45Bill Simmons?

  Calling a condom a rubber?

• 1:00:48Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:00:49Bill Simmons?

  Felt very 90s to me. I don't think, do we say rubber in the same way anymore?

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  That's a question for you, I was 12.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  And then Sharon Stone hosted the April 1992 Saturday Night Live to promote this movie with musical guest Pearl Jam. Their first SNL performance.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 1:01:11Bill Simmons?

  And they look like they're like 22 years old. So there you go. What's age the best? All the San Francisco location stuff. By the way, I was warned by multiple people not to say San Fran. Apparently, it's an annoying habit. The San Francisco people don't like... So do you have a nickname for San Francisco, or no? Frisco?

• 1:01:34Bill Simmons?

  SF? What do you say, Craig?

• 1:01:38Speaker 05

  SF, probably?

• 1:01:42Bill Simmons?

  So when someone says San Fran, you're just like, fuck this person.

• 1:01:46Speaker 04

  So I fucking said it. And by the way, fuck you guys. I was like, I said it and Logan's right there. I was trying to like, shout out, everybody, give it up for Logan Murdock.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  But like, I said it when I was trying to fucking compliment y'all, City. Nobody told me that shit. I didn't get the email. So Frisco, The City, all of that shit, shout out to y'all.

• 1:02:06Bill Simmons?

  I like SF. We mentioned this earlier for What Saves the Best, one of the great cigarette smoking movies ever made, Sierra.

• 1:02:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  Who would you give if we could only hand out one Sean Penn, I brought my own pack award for excellence in non-screen smoking? Would you go Stone or Douglas?

• 1:02:23Chris Ryan?

  Douglas, because you can see that the cigarette is the highway to hell for him.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:02:29Chris Ryan?

  I feel like it's the cigarette that unlocks everything.

• 1:02:32Bill Simmons?

  I have more What Saves the Best, but what do you got now?

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Well, I just, I'm shocked you didn't say the first shot of Catherine on the deck that we spent so much time talking about.

• 1:02:40Bill Simmons?

  It's a good flick.

• 1:02:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Chris Ryan?

  It's a good flick.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Draws your attention to the jagged rocks, the danger of the person and the setting, all of it. Um, let's see, the score you already mentioned is quite good. The dong, the nudity, the explicit sex, Sharon Stone, we've talked about all of it, I think. I think the way props are used, like objects, you mentioned the key ring, obviously the ice picks, the hand ties, the ceiling mirrors, the matching picassos. There are these like little aspects of every setting that really become central drivers of the plot in a nice way.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  I got one.

• 1:03:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah?

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  Uh, men fucking with women who will eventually destroy them. So...

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  This movie should be required viewing for anyone who's thinking about dating a Kardashian, Timmy?

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  I know it seems good now, brother.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  But I was there for nine years, it's not gonna work out.

• 1:03:34Bill Simmons?

  I had Johnny Baz's Apartment, which has a Picasso.

• 1:03:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, Catherine has a Picasso.

• 1:03:41Bill Simmons?

  And also no maid service.

• 1:03:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:45Bill Simmons?

  I'd like, I really like Michael Douglas. I have down his hesitation. I can't believe this broad laugh that he does where he's just like.

• 1:03:55Chris Ryan?

  Drinking a paper cup of water.

• 1:03:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, he's like his, his little weird flirty thing. Something Nick Catherine exchanges. Fuck like minks, raise rug rats, live happily ever after. Like, there's just like good screenwriting stuff in this. And then, uh, Mal, I can't believe you didn't mention this. Well, she got that Magna Cut and Loudy pussy on her that.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Done fried up her brain. Yeah.

• 1:04:16Bill Simmons?

  Just some of the George Zunza. He plays, he plays Gus.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 1:04:21Bill Simmons?

  Gus, like, you know, he's dead the moment you see him. You're like, ah.

• 1:04:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Bill Simmons?

  This guy's overweight, he's a buddy. He's gonna drink too much. He'll, he'll make it. You do the pool. He's gonna be 18 minutes left, he'll be dead. You know what's happening. Pretext San Francisco.

• 1:04:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Bill Simmons?

  I would also put in there, San Francisco.

• 1:04:39Bill Simmons?

  I used to come here a lot in the 90s because some of my best high school, college friends lived here. And San Francisco was fucking awesome in the 90s. And it was, it was a great place for young people. It was just, it was really cool. And obviously has gone through a lot of transformations over the years, but just seeing it. Don't make a face, man.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  I'm saying you're buying into the propaganda. The fucking shit is beautiful. I seen that fucking building.

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  Gorgeous city.

• 1:05:06Speaker 04

  What's that, what's that pointy building? What's it called? The pointy one? From Star Trek. Do y'all know the name of the, the pointy one? I seen that bitch. Transameri, whatever the fuck. I like, I saw that. I was like, yo, man, this shit is crazy.

• 1:05:21Bill Simmons?

  Are we done with What's Ate The Best? Can we move on?

• 1:05:23Chris Ryan?

  I had one thing, which was, it takes, like, for me, it took a bunch of viewings to notice this. Is there is a brief moment when Douglas goes to Beth's house. He's like, come in and she's like, oh, my lock is broken.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:05:38Chris Ryan?

  And it's like, basically, the only detail you get that Catherine has set Beth up. This entire time and is like placing articles in her house and shit.

• 1:05:48Speaker 03

  Gotta put that revolver behind the bookcase.

• 1:05:50Chris Ryan?

  Change your locks, maybe, but like, it's a great, otherwise, the whole movie almost falls apart at the end. Which it kinda does anyway.

• 1:05:58Bill Simmons?

  Did you have another? Great shot, Gordo, for best shot.

• 1:06:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh, there's a bunch of really cool shit in here. Yon de Bon's really good, but the push in on Catherine saying, "I'd have to be pretty stupid to write a book about killing and then kill him the same way I described in my book."

• 1:06:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Chris Ryan?

  And she's saying it to the audience where it's like, almost breaking the fourth wall.

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  Right. Uh, we have, we don't get to give this out a lot, the Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate. Catherine's house.

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:06:23Bill Simmons?

  Uh, so the exterior's in Stinson Beach and then the interior stuff was in Carmel by the sea, which is not that close to here. Um, about 35 mil right now for this one. Um, great bay window, great deck, easy access to a completely scary beach.

• 1:06:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:40Bill Simmons?

  That you just felt you could die as you're going on a walk. Uh, CR, you have a flex category. What do you got?

• 1:06:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, you guys tell me, I feel like the Ed Norton reverse dunk award, "Did this movie need a random sports scene?"

• 1:06:54Chris Ryan?

  There's a little bit of Niners, like, at the end, like, at the diner and stuff, but could we not get George Seifert in this movie somehow? Because you were still cooking back then.

• 1:07:05Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean, like, Nick goes to, like, a Niners practice? And has, like, young Montana thoughts?

• 1:07:10Chris Ryan?

  Like, Gus has lost a ton of money on the Niners or something.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 04

  Oh, I got one. Karen used to fuck somebody on the Niners. Maybe Ca- oh, Karen.

• 1:07:20Bill Simmons?

  Catherine.

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  I'm drunk. Catherine used to, like, oh, white woman, Karen, whatever. Um, so she used to fuck somebody on the Niners, so they go to interview him, and it's Jerry Rice.

• 1:07:32Chris Ryan?

  And the name of her new novel is Rice.

• 1:07:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:07:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Mallory, you don't get a flex because you have your own award. The Mallory Rubin Award for, "Did this movie need a better sex scene?"

• 1:07:44Speaker 04

  Oh, shit.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Okay, well, like, a third of the runtime is sex scenes, basically, right? We have the opening buzz scene, we have Nick, I'll incorporate some just nudity that's very central as well, Nick watching Catherine change in the mirror for the first time, the Nick Beth rape scene, uh, we could make that better by not having it or not doing it that way, I'd say. Um, Nick watching Catherine change again through the large, beautiful picture. Windows that you were just commenting on with the real estate, right? And reasonable to assume that she knows he's there. So put a pin in that. I'll be coming back to that in a second. We've got the fuck of the century. The fireplace chaise scene. So this, this, we enter a different point in the movie now where we're like not seeing the sex.

• 1:08:25Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:08:25Speaker 03

  This is the like.

• 1:08:26Bill Simmons?

  They warn us out.

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  Make love to me. And then we cut and they're cuddling in front of the fire. It's like, this is not the movie that I signed up to watch. Why am I not seeing every second of that? And it ends up being very relevant because that's when she's planting the Lisa nuggets about Beth in this vulnerable moment. Then we get Catherine at Nick's apartment, some nudity. And then again, we don't see the sex scene. Insane. Then we cut to them cuddling in the window nook.

• 1:08:51Bill Simmons?

  Didn't have enough sex.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  I think that there are a couple of opportunities in the established sequence of the film to just show us all of the sex again, which I would have supported. And then of course, the final sex scene, which once again mirrors the Bosbeats, spine bending maneuvers and then the forward thrusts. And then like, okay, she didn't kill him. So here are my suggestions. Give us the full sex scenes in the ones we cut away from. The make love to me, fireplace chaise and the window nook. But I think for like the fourth or fifth rewatchables in a row. So this is something I'm going to reflect on later. I would like to suggest that the movie include a masturbation scene. Because it actually doesn't make sense that that's missing. And I think when Nick follows.

• 1:09:33Bill Simmons?

  Nick has calluses.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I'm like, how is, how does Nick's dick have skin on it? If his hand has that many calluses on it? Like use some lotion, my guy, come on. But I'm talking about Catherine, naturally. He follows her home. Someone said yes.

• 1:09:48Bill Simmons?

  Somebody said yes.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Fellow visionary. Fellow visionary. He follows her home and he, she is, she just immediately gets undressed, drapes her open, giant window. She definitely knows he's there because he is the worst tail in the history of tails.

• 1:10:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he really is. He's terrible.

• 1:10:06Speaker 03

  At no point in the movie does he follow somebody and they don't know that he's behind them. So she knows he's there and purposefully she gets undressed in front of the window, leaves the lights on, and then as she walks away, turn the lights off, which I think is confirmation that she knows he's watching. There's a couch right there. Go for it. Right?

• 1:10:24Bill Simmons?

  You throw, so you throw some solo action.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:10:28Bill Simmons?

  And then we mix in a Newman scene as well. Oh, Newman solo action.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  Well, let's see it.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:10:33Speaker 04

  Let's see it.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  A real toss up. Let's either see Newman jack off or Catherine masturbate.

• 1:10:39Speaker 04

  I'm going.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Or Splendid on her couch, either.

• 1:10:42Speaker 04

  Honestly, yeah, I've never seen anything like that before, yeah.

• 1:10:46Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:10:49Bill Simmons?

  Pulling the back roll.

• 1:10:52Bill Simmons?

  We don't get to give this award out. Craig, you were here when this award was created. The Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Intimacy Coordinator?

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  Clearly, yes.

• 1:11:03Speaker 04

  Paul Verhoeven is the intimacy coordinator.

• 1:11:05Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say yes on this.

• 1:11:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm gonna say yeah. I'll give this a yes.

• 1:11:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, okay. Butch's Girlfriend Award for Weak Link of the Film.

• 1:11:13Chris Ryan?

  I got this one, and it really jumped out at me. What the fuck is Hazel Dobkins doing in this movie?

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  Oh, this is mine, too.

• 1:11:19Chris Ryan?

  Unless you subscribe to the online theory that she is the mastermind of this entire film.

• 1:11:25Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:11:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:11:26Chris Ryan?

  And that that's why Catherine seems so deferential towards her, and she's often at the house when Nick arrives. It's like Hazel's like in the background.

• 1:11:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. What message boards are you on?

• 1:11:35Chris Ryan?

  R slash Basic Instinct. And, no, but it's like, it's either one or the other. She's either like, they kind of wrote her into the movie and kept her like appearing throughout it, or she is the Joker.

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  What do you think of that, Van?

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 1:11:53Bill Simmons?

  Hazel Dobins being the Joker.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know. But like, you know, I'm thinking about a lot of stuff in this movie. I'm processing as we're talking. Like, when we were talking about the sex scenes and Hazel, I looked at the sex scenes. I really thought that this was the way white people had sex back in the day. Because I look at her now, and all of her riding skills, they're completely obsolete now.

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  We have new technologies. She wasn't making no circles. She was just going crazy. And then like when you, when you, when you see Showgirls, it's the same thing. When you watch Elizabeth Berkley in Showgirls, she's in the pool, and she's actually like she's on a bucking bronco and I, I, I fucking spasming and shit like that. But like, anyway.

• 1:12:41Speaker 03

  I had Hazel questions as well, because I think it's one of the more puzzling aspects of the plot. I hadn't considered, I didn't know this was a theory. I hadn't considered the Joker thing, but I think another bit of evidence to support this theory is that Hazel canonically killed her husband and three children. Yes. Right? She is a mass murderer, a child slayer, and it is established on the aforementioned computer that she was in jail for nine years for that.

• 1:13:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Roxy killed her brother and is out after six.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  That's also insane. She slit their throats with a razor and she's like, "I put in a couple of years. I'm good."

• 1:13:15Bill Simmons?

  I had that in Picket Nets. It seemed like, I would say a short prison sentence for wiping out your family.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:13:21Speaker 04

  Hold on, hold on. This is the two Americans thing. That Trax kill her whole family. She gets out nine years. I know niggas in jail 55 years for weed. That's real. Feel guilty.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  Isn't the weak link of the movie the DNA evidence thing, though? Like, it's actually like, I agree that we just want to watch the movie and have fun, but it is actually disqualifying, borderline disqualifying. Like, DNA evidence had been in practice since the 80s. This movie is set in 92. There's just absolutely no reason.

• 1:13:49Chris Ryan?

  Those guys, here's the thing, those guys were just like...

• 1:13:50Speaker 03

  Every single murder involves every bodily fluid that you could possibly excrete. How are they not finding the killer?

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  Can I counter this?

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  Please.

• 1:14:00Bill Simmons?

  Because I had this in What Stage Is the Worst, not Weakest Link.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:14:04Bill Simmons?

  Just because 10 years later, the DNA she's done in five minutes. But if you remember the OJ trial in 95, people still, we barely knew what DNA evidence was, and people like, didn't even really believe it.

• 1:14:15Speaker 04

  Well, because he didn't do it. Anyway. But no, but the DNA is kind of...

• 1:14:27Bill Simmons?

  So you're going to the sun?

• 1:14:28Speaker 04

  Like, the DNA is kind of rendered default by the fact that she admits that she had sex with the guy.

• 1:14:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Speaker 04

  But she says that she had sex with him, and she says over and over again that they had sex. So her being connected to him is not necessarily...

• 1:14:41Bill Simmons?

  But the fingerprints on the ice pick, like, there's stuff that they would...

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  She's not covered in like, blood? Her clothing doesn't have a trace of the blood of her slain victims.

• 1:14:51Chris Ryan?

  She's often freshly showered when he comes over.

• 1:14:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Chris Ryan?

  Like, she's...

• 1:14:53Speaker 03

  That's, I don't think that's how it works.

• 1:14:55Chris Ryan?

  I'm just saying.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  If you commit a murder one day, as a friend and person who loves you, don't just shower and think you're gonna get away with it. You need to clean up more fully.

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  That's so funny getting a call from CR like 2:30, Van.

• 1:15:06Speaker 03

  I took a shower, I'm fine.

• 1:15:07Speaker 04

  Come downtown, I did something I wasn't supposed to do, man.

• 1:15:11Chris Ryan?

  Bring a bar of Irish Spring.

• 1:15:16Chris Ryan?

  That's just, get me out of this.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  I would help you.

• 1:15:19Chris Ryan?

  This is, so what's each the worst for me? I don't, I don't know if that's...

• 1:15:22Bill Simmons?

  Wait, I'm not, I gotta do my weak link.

• 1:15:24Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you gotta do your weak link, sorry.

• 1:15:25Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Van, I think you'd be one of my three calls. I don't know where you rank.

• 1:15:30Speaker 04

  Hey, bro, whose car are we taking?

• 1:15:34Bill Simmons?

  Um...

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  You call me, I'm with it.

• 1:15:39Bill Simmons?

  So I had a, I had a less auspicious weak link. So Nick, Michael Douglas's character, attacks Nielsen, the internal affairs guy, that he gave up the files, right? It's in front of like 30 cops.

• 1:15:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:52Bill Simmons?

  Has to be restrained, he's like ready to fight him. Six hours later, the guy's shot in the head. And they're like, hey shooter, we're gonna need your gun.

• 1:16:01Chris Ryan?

  Bill.

• 1:16:01Bill Simmons?

  He's not in jail?

• 1:16:02Chris Ryan?

  I'm so glad you brought this up.

• 1:16:04Bill Simmons?

  At that point, he's locked up, right?

• 1:16:06Chris Ryan?

  This is what I don't think you caught in that scene where he goes into Nielsen's office. When he goes into Marty's office and he starts like jumping on him, Marty's boss pulls a gun and fucks him in the back of the head.

• 1:16:18Speaker 04

  He puts it to his head, dude. What the shit is happening?

• 1:16:22Chris Ryan?

  So it's just funny. There are no rules in the SFPD.

• 1:16:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, crazy.

• 1:16:27Speaker 04

  The SFPD is going nuts. They take the gun, put it, "Hey, do something to him, I'll blow your fucking head off, shooter."

• 1:16:34Chris Ryan?

  That's Internal Affairs.

• 1:16:36Speaker 03

  It's insane.

• 1:16:36Chris Ryan?

  There's no fucking laws, man.

• 1:16:40Bill Simmons?

  What a movie. All right, What's Age of the Worst, what'd you have, Sierra?

• 1:16:43Chris Ryan?

  Uh, well, so What's Age of the Worst is the fact that we know too much. We would be talking about DNA evidence.

• 1:16:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Chris Ryan?

  After David Simon, we know way too much about law enforcement storytelling. Back then, they were like, "Yeah, three months ago, this narc killed two tourists while he was high on code. Now fucks his therapist. Let's promote him to homicide detective. And have him drive the suspect, who the two of them have been making fuck me eyes at each other throughout this completely inappropriate interrogation."

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  Did you know each other?

• 1:17:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. My idea is, Nick, find out where Catherine leads.

• 1:17:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Chris Ryan?

  And then he abandons his responsibilities altogether. It's fucking amazing.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:17:25Chris Ryan?

  Watching it at the time, I was like, "This is incredible." Watching it now, you're like, "I think there would probably be some reviews."

• 1:17:32Bill Simmons?

  We mentioned the first sex scene is, uh, I gotta say, problematic now, but in 1992, wasn't not problematic. Like, it was a big thing when it happened, with him and Gene Triplehorn.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:44Bill Simmons?

  It's just a weird choice, I don't really get it. So, this really bugs me. This is, could be a nitpick, but it's really What's Age of the Worst. So, they put together that Gene Triplehorn also went to college with Sharon Stone's character, and they put the photo ID. And she's got a blonde wig in the photo ID, but it's the exact same photo as her now.

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Bill Simmons?

  And it was like, "This movie costs $59 million?" And they're just like, "Hey, what are we gonna do with the photo?" And they just, like, photoshopped? I don't, I just don't understand it. It's such an unforced error.

• 1:18:16Speaker 03

  Great one.

• 1:18:17Bill Simmons?

  What else did, do you have any What's Age of the Worst fan?

• 1:18:20Speaker 04

  No, I was all about the way Sharon Stone was riding dick.

• 1:18:23Bill Simmons?

  Did you have any more, Mel?

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  I think that the, we've alluded to this, but like, the, beyond just the general kinda shoddy work from the SFPD, uh, the solving of the murder, it, they're like, that jacket fit.

• 1:18:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  So it was back-

• 1:18:41Chris Ryan?

  She's got a bunch of articles in her drawer.

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  The jacket that says where she works on the back of it, which is definitely a choice you'd make as a murderer.

• 1:18:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  Fit. So it's her. I mean, that's just absolutely ludicrous.

• 1:18:52Bill Simmons?

  I had a, I had that in nitpicks, but the same thing, they go to the- They go to Beth's kitchen drawer, they open up, there's all this scrapbook stuff.

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Bill Simmons?

  And the guy goes, "Well, I guess that's it."

• 1:19:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, Walker's like, "Kitchen drawer." Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:19:07Bill Simmons?

  Tony, go it in, guilty.

• 1:19:10Speaker 03

  Serial killers always keep a full binder of chronologically ordered incriminating evidence in their kitchen drawer. Always.

• 1:19:19Bill Simmons?

  Crazy.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  Always. The speed of the elevator in that sequence, also ridiculous. And the fact that Nick has just had this very dramatic moment where he's like, looking at the two covers, "Oh, which will they go with?" And he sees the paragraph about the detective's partner being found in the elevator. And then Gus shows up and is like, "Bud, I got a call from Catherine's freshman year roommate. Let's go." And Nick's like, "Sounds good. That all seems credible. Let's do it." And then he's like, "I'm just gonna go inside a few floors up the elevator that you just read about." And Nick's like, "Cool. Good luck."

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He just read the page on the printer.

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  And then he's killed shortly thereafter in the exact scenario that was described in the pages he just read. Nick, terrible. No one's like, Beth doesn't have blood on her hands at the end?

• 1:20:02Bill Simmons?

  I had a...

• 1:20:04Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:20:04Bill Simmons?

  The last 40 minutes is the What's Age the Worst. They kinda yada yada some of this stuff, but I love this movie, but...

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  That's crazy. If you stab someone with an ice pick that many times in the jugular in an elevator, you have some blood on your hands.

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 03

  With some.

• 1:20:18Bill Simmons?

  And then I had the rip-off erotic thrillers that came after this that were all pretty bad. I think the worst one's probably Color Night, especially because Bruce Willis pool penis on a 70-foot screen. Wasn't really looking for that in 1995.

• 1:20:33Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:20:35Speaker 03

  To each their own.

• 1:20:36Bill Simmons?

  I'm really excited for this next category. The rough-lo-hander Rubenek Partridge overacting award obviously goes to Michael Douglas, who has... He does this thing where he says the line, but then yells the last two words. So it's like, "Who has access to my goddamn files?

• 1:20:55Bill Simmons?

  What is this, some kind of joke?"

• 1:20:59Bill Simmons?

  This was his angry Michael Douglas.

• 1:21:00Speaker 04

  Stop fucking riding me, man!

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Speaker 04

  I'll get your fucking teeth in!

• 1:21:05Bill Simmons?

  I just love it. All right, Vance flex. So you have to... How would Van Lathan get out of this one? Which is an award we have sometimes.

• 1:21:13Chris Ryan?

  So as Beth or as Nick?

• 1:21:15Bill Simmons?

  I think you could be, you could be any of the three characters here. How would Van get out of this one? Pick a character and go.

• 1:21:21Speaker 04

  I'm getting out of what, though?

• 1:21:23Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, how would Van Lathan get out of this? All right, you're Beth, how about you're Beth?

• 1:21:27Speaker 04

  So I'm Beth? Well, I'm gonna be Nick, right?

• 1:21:29Bill Simmons?

  Okay, be Nick.

• 1:21:32Speaker 04

  So I'm Nick and, and, you know, they're asking me like why I'm hanging around Catherine. Well, the reality is this, you say I don't read enough. The woman's an author, okay? You say I play the game too much, you say that I'm too obsessed with the dog, you say I'm on the computer too much. This woman's an author, she's written books. These books are very well regarded. And what I'm trying to do is deepen my understanding of literature. Now, here's the deal. If this was a male writer, you wouldn't have any problem with it.

• 1:22:00Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:22:01Speaker 04

  If it's a female writer. So while you're looking at me, what I think you actually need to look at is the mirror. Because the reality is, this is a woman, so you feel threatened. I don't feel threatened around women because I empower women. I believe in female writers, I believe in female creators, and this is a female creator. I believe in her, so I'm gonna keep hanging around her. You deal with your things. Talk to Dr. Crossman on Thursday.

• 1:22:32Bill Simmons?

  Nails it every time.

• 1:22:34Speaker 04

  Gaslight.

• 1:22:35Bill Simmons?

  The CR, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford at hottest take award.

• 1:22:42Chris Ryan?

  So I was working on something, I told you earlier, I was like, I have a hottest take, but I haven't landed the plane yet. I think the planes still circle in the airport. Is this movie a perverted man's version of Gilligan's Island, where the professor is caught in between the psychosexual dealings of Ginger and Mary Ann? Or the CR is pandemonying to the audience award for safest home field take? San Francisco is the best.

• 1:23:07Speaker 03

  Movie City.

• 1:23:12Bill Simmons?

  The suck up take, I like it. Now, do you have one?

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  I think Catherine is a pretty generous murderer.

• 1:23:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  I mean, cocaine on the penis.

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  Sure, you're alive to see the ice pick penetrate your nose, your neck, a couple other parts of your body, but you're shooting your load inside of her while it's happening.

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  Not a bad way to go.

• 1:23:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 1:23:44Speaker 03

  Thoughtful.

• 1:23:45Speaker 05

  You could just kill them.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  What do you got, Ben?

• 1:23:48Speaker 04

  Uh, you scratched my back during the fuck section, it's over, okay? I like.

• 1:23:56Speaker 04

  I know that like, I've had this conversation since 99. Hey, bro, I was in that shit like crazy, dawg. She was scratching my back. I'm like, that's it, it's over, it's done. I don't even like spicy food. I don't like pain. You scratch, it's like, you like, you bite my neck too hard. Hey, yo, on God, though, I feel you. Chill. All right? She scratches his shit like Wolverine and seeing Magneto.

• 1:24:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  And this motherfucker's like, ah, god, whatever. Hey, what the fuck is wrong with you? It's true what they say about you. Nah, don't scratch my shit.

• 1:24:31Bill Simmons?

  Mine, I don't know how to prove this. I think this is the single worst cop performance ever by a cop in a movie.

• 1:24:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:24:39Bill Simmons?

  So, we get to meet Nick. He's off cocaine for three months.

• 1:24:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yep.

• 1:24:44Bill Simmons?

  Three months. Celebration, let's have a party. He's killed four tourists in the last five years.

• 1:24:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:24:51Bill Simmons?

  But each time was, it was undercover for drugs, so it's fine. Somehow got promoted as CR mentioned. He's asked to trail this suspect, immediately falls in love with her and goes down this psychosexual path, loses his mind, loses his badge, and then ends up shooting his girlfriend.

• 1:25:13Speaker 04

  Murders his therapist.

• 1:25:14Bill Simmons?

  After he let his partner go up to reenact the page of a book that he just read.

• 1:25:20Speaker 03

  Crazy. Let go, get killed.

• 1:25:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Shoots his girlfriend, and then somehow gets away with. And he's back on the streets. I mean, this is like the real Dirty Harry. This is it.

• 1:25:32Chris Ryan?

  This is Dirty Harry.

• 1:25:33Bill Simmons?

  He was like Lousy Harry.

• 1:25:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:35Bill Simmons?

  Terrible cop. Casting what ifs, we mentioned Kim Basinger. Meg Ryan turned it down. Gina Davis turned it down. Ellen Barkin, I'm amazed she turned it down. Meryl Hemingway turned it down. And then it was Demi Moore versus Sharon Stone and Sharon Stone won.

• 1:25:53Chris Ryan?

  By far the funniest casting what if is that Emma Thompson auditioned for Catherine.

• 1:25:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I didn't know what to make of that. Did you believe that?

• 1:26:01Chris Ryan?

  She said, I auditioned for Catherine. Yeah.

• 1:26:04Bill Simmons?

  Allegedly, in one of the original scripts, Nick Curran was originally a lesbian cop, written with Kathleen Turner in mind, and then they switched it.

• 1:26:13Bill Simmons?

  Paul Verhoeven was supposed to direct Black Rain.

• 1:26:16Chris Ryan?

  Oh shit.

• 1:26:16Bill Simmons?

  Which will be on the rewatchables at some point in 2026.

• 1:26:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Bill Simmons?

  But dropped out to do Total Recall. And then, I thought this was amazing. Verhoeven wanted Tom Berenger for Robocop and Basic Instinct, and Berenger's like, no, thanks. You're a weird pervy Dutch guy, and I don't want to do a movie with you.

• 1:26:34Chris Ryan?

  I'll be doing Sniper instead. Yeah.

• 1:26:38Bill Simmons?

  Milos Forman was the first choice to direct and do it. And then, I don't know what to believe with who is considered for Nick. It's basically every white actor from 1982.

• 1:26:47Chris Ryan?

  The two other ones that were really big were Linda Fiorentino as Beth. And this is insane, but Brooke Shields is Roxy.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:57Bill Simmons?

  Saw that.

• 1:26:59Chris Ryan?

  You don't want to comment?

• 1:27:02Bill Simmons?

  It's just, there's no way. It's, she just never would have done it. Best That Guy Award, Newman ineligible. Groundhog guy, the Groundhog Day guy. Stephen Tobalski, he's ineligible.

• 1:27:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:16Bill Simmons?

  Dicky Greenleaf's dad, the principal headmaster from Son of a Woman, James Rebhorn. Ineligible.

• 1:27:23Chris Ryan?

  Why is he ineligible?

• 1:27:25Bill Simmons?

  Cause he's James Redburn. Go ahead Craig.

• 1:27:28Speaker 04

  Man, we're getting real, real, real weird with that guy.

• 1:27:31Chris Ryan?

  The fact that you have to say the guy from Groundhog Day.

• 1:27:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:35Chris Ryan?

  Means he's that guy.

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:39Bill Simmons?

  I think Roxy wins the that guy award.

• 1:27:41Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:27:41Speaker 04

  Ah, fuck all that.

• 1:27:42Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:27:42Bill Simmons?

  Cause if you see her, you'd think it's Roxy.

• 1:27:44Speaker 04

  No, it's not her, no.

• 1:27:45Chris Ryan?

  You're changing the definition of that.

• 1:27:47Speaker 04

  But that guy is like, not even, you're not even committing to him.

• 1:27:50Chris Ryan?

  That guy means you've seen him so many times and you're like, that guy. We never see Roxy again, except for days of thunder.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  It's like, days of thunder.

• 1:27:56Speaker 04

  Right, it's like.

• 1:27:57Speaker 05

  Who would the most amount of people in this room be like, oh, that guy? When they see him on screen?

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  So probably James Redburn. That's fine.

• 1:28:04Speaker 04

  What about, okay, so the sheriff, okay? Jack McGee.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:28:10Speaker 04

  Who plays the sheriff, he's also in, in, um, in, in Scrooge.

• 1:28:14Chris Ryan?

  Bruce A. Young, who is the guy who says he had a minute amount of cocaine on the penis and in the lips.

• 1:28:20Speaker 04

  Chelsea Ross.

• 1:28:22Bill Simmons?

  Listen, I'm a team player, you can give it to whoever you want. Can we give Roxy the Dionne Waiters award then?

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 1:28:27Bill Simmons?

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:28:28Speaker 03

  No question.

• 1:28:29Bill Simmons?

  Is this a Hall of Fame Dionne Waiters performance?

• 1:28:31Chris Ryan?

  I've recently become really obsessed with these Instagram videos where it'll be like, Kam Chancellor being like, when I was out there, I was looking to kill. And then a fucking Drake song drops and it's just Kam Chancellor hits for like two and a half minutes. They should make one for Roxy. Just with her footage and basic instincts. Oh, I forgot where I was.

• 1:28:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:52Chris Ryan?

  My bad.

• 1:28:56Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city. So Hazel Dobbins, does the character work better if it's just Jacqueline Bisset? Just throwing that out there. Wow, dead silence from the crowd.

• 1:29:08Bill Simmons?

  Let's walk through Tom Cruise as Nick.

• 1:29:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Bill Simmons?

  Let's just.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to get in the car with this, but let's take a stroll around the block. Little younger. I think he brings the same amount of unintentional comedy.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 1:29:23Bill Simmons?

  There's probably a running scene at one point.

• 1:29:24Speaker 05

  Probably across the Golden Gate.

• 1:29:26Bill Simmons?

  Right, he's running the Golden Gate for no reason at all.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:29:31Speaker 05

  He's running to Stinson Beach.

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  We'd. We'd get to watch him smoke.

• 1:29:36Speaker 05

  I'll see you there.

• 1:29:37Speaker 04

  I'll run.

• 1:29:38Bill Simmons?

  We'd get to watch him smoke. Nothing would be funnier than Tom Cruise ripping off Marlboro Reds.

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  That'd be great.

• 1:29:44Bill Simmons?

  Him trying to have sexual chemistry with Sharon Stone, who's like working overtime. I would love that.

• 1:29:49Chris Ryan?

  Him nude talking to Roxy in the bathroom.

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, nude Tom Cruise.

• 1:29:54Chris Ryan?

  Let me ask you something, Rocky.

• 1:29:56Speaker 03

  Man to man.

• 1:29:57Bill Simmons?

  Him in the nightclub scene? Like, he's definitely like, I'm fucking.

• 1:30:00Speaker 04

  In the nightclub scene. He's going to fucking dance.

• 1:30:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:04Speaker 04

  He's not gonna be able to stay away. The beat's gonna fucking completely destroy him.

• 1:30:07Bill Simmons?

  Now, I don't know if you want to imitate Tom Cruise in the cunnilingus scene.

• 1:30:15Bill Simmons?

  This has turned into ET. It's like ET coming out of the closet. I don't know, I.

• 1:30:22Speaker 03

  I can see it.

• 1:30:22Speaker 04

  I see what you're saying.

• 1:30:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Bill Simmons?

  So would you go Cruise or Douglas if you had to redo this? I feel like I would go Cruise.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  Oh, you gotta go Douglas, man.

• 1:30:31Bill Simmons?

  What do you think, Craig?

• 1:30:33Chris Ryan?

  Stick with Douglas.

• 1:30:34Bill Simmons?

  All right, fine. Uh, Craig, you have a flex category.

• 1:30:38Speaker 05

  Um, Vincent Chase Award, are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Catherine Tramell.

• 1:30:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 05

  Fantastic planner, messy killer. Reckless stabber. Thirty-one stabs on Johnny Bosz. Why? Why do you thirty? Act like you've been there before. Jesus Christ. He's dead after five.

• 1:30:59Chris Ryan?

  I thought you were actually gonna say, we don't know what kind of writer she was?

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:03Speaker 05

  That too.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:31:03Chris Ryan?

  I know she was fast because she would just like be like, I'm off Bosz, I'm on to Nick, shooters, Doug. Now we're going on to the next one.

• 1:31:10Speaker 05

  Also, in the script, it says only 16 stabs. For some reason, it up to the double, the 31 in the real movie.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  There is when she gives the, the copy of the, the first, the book about the kid who killed his parents in the plane crash. It, there's like a Newsweek blurb on there about what a masterpiece it is, and it does say on the top, best seller.

• 1:31:29Speaker 05

  Oh shit.

• 1:31:30Chris Ryan?

  All the more reason why it would be hard for her to be a mass murderer.

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  I mean, it's so real.

• 1:31:35Speaker 05

  Leaving the ice pick and the scene of the, like she's just buying ice picks every week.

• 1:31:38Speaker 03

  That's her whole game, right? It's like, it's the taunt. Yeah, there are the, you know, a buck forty at Kmart.

• 1:31:43Speaker 05

  Bloody ice picks around? No regard for DNA? Messy, reckless. I don't like it.

• 1:31:49Speaker 05

  She shoots Nielsen in the head in broad daylight in a car?

• 1:31:53Speaker 03

  She got away with all of it.

• 1:31:54Bill Simmons?

  Ben, if you were dating her, when you went to bed at night, would you check in different parts of the bed for the ice pick? Just to make sure, or would you just let it go?

• 1:32:02Speaker 04

  No, when you date crazy, you like.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  You buy in.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  I would have like a metal detector that like works like a Roomba.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  Going around looking for an ice pick all over.

• 1:32:13Speaker 05

  Did you guys see that Sharon Stone, literally as she was stabbing Bill Cable, the guy who played Johnny Boss? Stabbed him so hard it went through the blood pack and pierced his skin and he went to the hospital.

• 1:32:23Speaker 04

  Too much.

• 1:32:24Bill Simmons?

  Wow, she was really committed.

• 1:32:25Speaker 04

  Get off me.

• 1:32:26Bill Simmons?

  Quick half-assed in our research, no body doubles used in any sex scenes.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:32:32Bill Simmons?

  We mentioned the five days to film the big sex scene. Douglas declined to go full frontal.

• 1:32:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Bill Simmons?

  In the film, which apparently he had in his contract.

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  The patriarchy is so real. My God.

• 1:32:43Speaker 05

  Well, in my contract, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  Side dick though, so.

• 1:32:47Bill Simmons?

  The first sex scene with, with Douglas and Triplehorn.

• 1:32:53Bill Simmons?

  It was the rehearsal scene and creepy perv Verhoeven was like, that was good. Let's keep that as the main. And they didn't even know they were filming it as the real scene. Pretty weird. Strange guy. And then in Hollywood Animal, Joe Esterhaus's book, he claimed that he slept with Sharon Stone after the movie came out. That was in the book.

• 1:33:12Speaker 05

  Sure he did.

• 1:33:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't think he was.

• 1:33:14Chris Ryan?

  Esterhaus wrote this movie over the course of 10 days with no outline while listening to the Stones, which is a great euphemism for on cocaine.

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. You can't tell.

• 1:33:28Chris Ryan?

  And then in the making of, I had to bring this up, is Verhoeven describes Nick as, quote, "A cop who has gone through some bad times and has done some things that we might consider wrong."

• 1:33:42Bill Simmons?

  Including four murders.

• 1:33:43Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 1:33:44Speaker 04

  You know what category we didn't do? We didn't do, "Does this movie need more black people?" No, it's a killer cop on this. He killing everybody.

• 1:33:54Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain is another category we do where we decide if this was the peak of somebody's something.

• 1:34:03Speaker 05

  Got it.

• 1:34:03Bill Simmons?

  Controversial character category. Michael Douglas, I'm gonna say no.

• 1:34:07Speaker 04

  Nah.

• 1:34:08Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:34:08Bill Simmons?

  Sharon Stone, yes.

• 1:34:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:34:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:34:10Bill Simmons?

  Joe Esterhaus, yes. Ceiling sex mirrors?

• 1:34:15Speaker 03

  Could be.

• 1:34:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, has it been done better than this?

• 1:34:17Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that this is maybe the end of the peak of ceiling sex mirrors?

• 1:34:21Bill Simmons?

  I know, Cribs brought it back.

• 1:34:23Chris Ryan?

  Cribs brought it back?

• 1:34:25Bill Simmons?

  I think like three members of the Trailblazers had the ceiling mirrors. I remember, Zach Randolph definitely had it.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 1:34:33Bill Simmons?

  San Francisco movies, probably not.

• 1:34:35Speaker 04

  Probably not, yeah.

• 1:34:38Bill Simmons?

  Erotic thrillers?

• 1:34:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:40Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:34:40Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna say yes, alright.

• 1:34:42Speaker 03

  Freeze frame moments? Like moments you pause on in a movie?

• 1:34:45Bill Simmons?

  Side dick freeze frame?

• 1:34:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, Phoebe Cates.

• 1:34:50Bill Simmons?

  What is it for Gene Triplehorn? Cause it's probably The Firm, right?

• 1:34:52Speaker 03

  The Firm, yeah.

• 1:34:53Chris Ryan?

  Waterworld? Isn't that like right around this time? Isn't 92's kinda like, breaks out?

• 1:34:59Bill Simmons?

  Coke and Jack Daniels?

• 1:35:01Chris Ryan?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  Got Pepsi in the fridge.

• 1:35:04Bill Simmons?

  Elevator murders, I'm gonna go dress to kill.

• 1:35:08Bill Simmons?

  Gratuitous male actor ass shots? I think maybe?

• 1:35:11Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, so there was a whole competition. So look, bust this. So, you like... So he had to show his butt. He had no problem.

• 1:35:19Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:35:20Speaker 04

  He was in a white butt competition.

• 1:35:22Bill Simmons?

  Right. This was the apex of white butt competitions.

• 1:35:25Speaker 04

  Mel Gibson's butt, Lethal Weapon. Kevin Costner's butt, Robin Hood. Bruce Willis's butt later on in Color of Night. Douglas was like, you know what? I got the ass. Douglas the Stallion.

• 1:35:35Bill Simmons?

  Got to do it.

• 1:35:36Speaker 04

  I'm gonna show y'all that I got that nasty. He had to show his butt. He probably wanted to show it.

• 1:35:40Bill Simmons?

  He lost 25 pounds for the film in the movie.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  He looks great.

• 1:35:44Chris Ryan?

  That shape of his life.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  Uh, we don't get to give this award all the time, but it's the Floyd Gondoli.

• 1:35:50Speaker 04

  Hold on for a second. Apex Mountain. I got a couple of things.

• 1:35:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh, what do you got?

• 1:35:53Speaker 04

  Ice picks.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:56Speaker 04

  Apex Mountain, Ice Picks.

• 1:35:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:58Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:36:00Bill Simmons?

  The crowds are plotting Ice Picks. What's happened to all of you? We've corrupted you in less than 90 minutes.

• 1:36:06Speaker 04

  Ice Picks, fucking your therapist? I think this is like way up there, fucking your therapist right here.

• 1:36:10Bill Simmons?

  Not Sopranos?

• 1:36:11Speaker 04

  Also, well, the Sopranos, they never fuck.

• 1:36:14Bill Simmons?

  Fantasy scene.

• 1:36:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, the fantasy.

• 1:36:16Chris Ryan?

  Did they fuck Princess Prin- Princess Tides?

• 1:36:18Speaker 03

  I thought you said the Princess Bride.

• 1:36:20Chris Ryan?

  I did for a second, yeah. Did Stre- Streisand and Nolte have sex in Prince of Tides?

• 1:36:27Bill Simmons?

  I honestly, CR, you got me on this one. Haven't whipped that one out in a while. Woman on top?

• 1:36:36Speaker 04

  Woman on top. Woman on top.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:38Bill Simmons?

  You know, it might be because of the murder part.

• 1:36:41Speaker 04

  Ladies, get loud for that. We know y'all like that shit. It only actually feels good to y'all. But like, it, it, like, like.

• 1:36:47Speaker 03

  Oh, Adora, yeah.

• 1:36:49Speaker 04

  Like, woman on top, like, this is, she, when she wants to exert her power, she flips over and that's how she does her thing, woman on top.

• 1:36:56Bill Simmons?

  The Floyd Gondoli butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. Here you go, CR. For me, it's.

• 1:37:05Chris Ryan?

  Cops getting in too deep.

• 1:37:07Bill Simmons?

  Now I'll leave it go a little further. When an unraveling and supposedly sober cop shows up at the police bar and orders a double.

• 1:37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:37:16Bill Simmons?

  And multiple cops go, oh no.

• 1:37:18Speaker 04

  There he is.

• 1:37:20Bill Simmons?

  Nick Strickin' again. I'm in every time. I just love it. Uh, do you guys have any for that or should we keep going?

• 1:37:26Speaker 04

  Uh, uh, not wearing any underwear. So look, um, I love this, okay? Who told women they had to wear underwear? Men. Don't listen, okay? Let that thing out. You see what I'm saying? And also, I'm gonna be honest with you guys. I like doing it, okay? Last year I got a wax job.

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:37:48Speaker 04

  What's going on right now?

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  He chronicled this on his podcast.

• 1:37:53Speaker 04

  Last year I got a wax job.

• 1:37:54Speaker 03

  It was very memorable.

• 1:37:55Speaker 04

  She waxed the entire thing and like, like, three-quarter way through the wax, she goes like, "I love what you do," and I'm like, "This is a little weird, but that's okay."

• 1:38:03Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 1:38:03Speaker 04

  And after that, it's just, it feels sexy, dawg.

• 1:38:16Chris Ryan?

  That is probably closer to the Floyd Gondoli, like, essence of this category than we ever get, so.

• 1:38:22Bill Simmons?

  Craig's on, Craig's on LinkedIn right now.

• 1:38:26Bill Simmons?

  Looking around.

• 1:38:31Bill Simmons?

  We don't get to give this award out very much, the He Got Game Hooker scene for most awkward scene if someone randomly walks into the room. There's like five different scenes where your mother-in-law's coming down and you thought she was asleep.

• 1:38:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Pick a Knits.

• 1:38:51Bill Simmons?

  Why didn't Johnny Bos's corpse have a rigor mortis boner?

• 1:38:59Chris Ryan?

  Did it?

• 1:38:59Bill Simmons?

  You want me to Google it?

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  It didn't.

• 1:39:02Bill Simmons?

  I mean, that's why you have the computer.

• 1:39:06Bill Simmons?

  When you die, don't you just die? Like, everything's intact?

• 1:39:09Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if it's like getting frozen in carbonite, like.

• 1:39:15Chris Ryan?

  It's like the second your heart stops, you're like.

• 1:39:23Bill Simmons?

  Are we sure it's not, though?

• 1:39:26Chris Ryan?

  Do we have a doctor in the house?

• 1:39:29Chris Ryan?

  It is a thing, a death erection.

• 1:39:32Speaker 03

  But he doesn't have an erection.

• 1:39:36Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. No. Thank you. Third deck, thank you.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  We, how did Hazel Dobbins get out of jail? I just, nine years. She served her time. Four, a husband and three kids gone. Uh, let's let her out. I have a few more, but CR, you have any?

• 1:39:55Chris Ryan?

  I mean, when does Catherine write?

• 1:39:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I had this too. She wrote Shooter in two weeks.

• 1:40:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, she writes Shooter in a matter of weeks and she boasts, most of the time is having sex, doing cocaine or driving around San Francisco.

• 1:40:08Bill Simmons?

  Or hanging at a Nick's doorstep, waiting for him to come home.

• 1:40:11Chris Ryan?

  Hey, got you a house plant.

• 1:40:13Bill Simmons?

  Prolific writer.

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's a genius. She is.

• 1:40:17Speaker 04

  Okay, I got one.

• 1:40:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:19Speaker 04

  So after the first time they have sex, you know, this big, he spoons her. Nigga, is your girl now?

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  But he's in love with her.

• 1:40:31Speaker 04

  Nah, fuck all that. Nah, spooning is for Sunday. We watching Avengers Endgame on TNT. It takes up the whole fucking afternoon. You do not spoon the psycho killer girl that you are investigating. He wants, he nuzzles up next to her, puts his hand over, she calls him, what the fuck is up with you, homie? Like, he ain't got no homeboys? You're spooning? That quick? Simp ass motherfucker.

• 1:40:55Bill Simmons?

  CR?

• 1:40:57Chris Ryan?

  That was, my picking nit was really about Catherine's writing.

• 1:41:00Bill Simmons?

  Mal, you have any?

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  Uh, I think the fact that Nick gets hit by a moving vehicle, that Roxy drives a Lotus into him and he is unaffected. He like shakes his head once as he gets behind the wheel. Like, that's the concussion protocol. One head shake, no blood, no injuries. No damage to the car, which of course then will be damaged when it fall, rolls over the cliff, killing Roxy, who has no injuries. No blood on her, despite the car being destroyed.

• 1:41:30Bill Simmons?

  All internal injuries.

• 1:41:31Speaker 03

  Yes. Crazy, ludicrous.

• 1:41:35Chris Ryan?

  Why did Johnny Bosz give all of his money to her? Why was she the only one available to get the hundred million dollars?

• 1:41:42Bill Simmons?

  Was that who she got? I thought she got it from her parents.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, inherited from the parents.

• 1:41:45Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was Boz's money went to her after he died. No, maybe he gets hit off, but she gets some, but she's rich because of her parents.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  Because of killing her parents.

• 1:41:53Bill Simmons?

  So Beth.

• 1:41:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:56Bill Simmons?

  As a nitpick.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  She falls for the broke cocaine-using alcoholic with one friend who shoots people randomly once a year and just had his wife kill herself? And she's like, "When you going to dinner tonight? Would you like to come?"

• 1:42:09Speaker 03

  Her dying words are, "I loved you."

• 1:42:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like, this was it for Beth? This guy's 20 years older than her?

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  She's a psychiatrist, so this is like, this is her cocaine, right? Like, a good time every night with Nick.

• 1:42:22Speaker 04

  This is consistent, though.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:24Speaker 04

  So, in The Departed, she falls in love.

• 1:42:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:28Speaker 04

  Like, in The Sopranos, there's always this thing between Melville, like, "What's going on with these therapists?" I think they like that type of dumbass shit.

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  They like the danger.

• 1:42:38Bill Simmons?

  Any more nitpicks? Because I'm gonna move on. Uh, sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast or untouchable? I'd like to at least walk through all black cast. What is... Because I feel like they have tried to make versions of this. What's... Is it, has, there's the one with, uh... What's, I'm trying to think. Help me out.

• 1:42:59Speaker 04

  Okay, what you talking about? Which one? Like, obsessed?

• 1:43:02Bill Simmons?

  No, it's the one with Ally Larder.

• 1:43:04Speaker 04

  Oh, obsessed. That's the call obsessed with Beyonce. Beyonce's the motherfucker, and, um, and Idris Elba.

• 1:43:09Bill Simmons?

  There's another with Megan Good, but they haven't...

• 1:43:12Speaker 04

  Megan Good, there's one...

• 1:43:13Bill Simmons?

  They never really pulled it off.

• 1:43:14Speaker 04

  They haven't really pulled it off. There's a thin line between love and hate, which actually takes place in the Bay. Like, with, like, with Martin Lawrence and Lil Whitfield and stuff like that, it's tough. We don't, we don't like depicting our sisters like that, you know what I'm saying? Our sisters don't get obsessed and shit like that.

• 1:43:26Bill Simmons?

  Prestige TV, could that work?

• 1:43:28Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 1:43:30Chris Ryan?

  Only to explain the ending. I would, I don't, I mean, I guess you could, you could do it as prestige TV. I, I will note that...

• 1:43:36Bill Simmons?

  Would you go backwards to Berkeley with Beth and Catherine?

• 1:43:39Chris Ryan?

  I would go back to the Manny Vasquez years.

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:41Chris Ryan?

  The boxing. I'd make a boxing show with Catherine as, as his girlfriend. But, you know, they, they made Basic Instinct 2, much maligned.

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  It's horrible. Please don't rent Basic Instinct 2.

• 1:43:51Chris Ryan?

  And a year ago, uh, Joe Esterhas, who is 80, reportedly sold a screenplay to Amazon for $2 million that was going to be an anti-woke reboot of Basic Instinct, because Basic Instinct is too woke.

• 1:44:07Chris Ryan?

  And he gave this quote. "To those who question what an 80-year-old man is doing writing a sexy erotic thriller, "the rumors of my cinematic impotence are exaggerated and ageist. "I call my writing parter," all caps, "the twisted little man, "and he lives somewhere deep inside me. "He was born 29, he will die 29. "And he tells me, 'Sky high up!' "to write this piece and provide viewers with a wild and orgasmic ride." Do you want to see this?

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:44:46Bill Simmons?

  We should have made you read that as Vincent Hanna. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else here?

• 1:44:59Chris Ryan?

  Nick, man. "From nights of cocaine-fueled sex to days of shooting tourists, "you've done it all. "So what is it that gets you fired up? "Could it be the bestselling author of mass-market paperbacks "uncrossing her legs in the interrogation room? "And where does Nick Curran go from here?"

• 1:45:21Speaker 03

  Incredible. Incredible. Amazing. I was hoping you would do Wayne. Give us a quick Wayne. Here's the contacts. Catherine is on a book.

• 1:45:35Chris Ryan?

  Goddamn!

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  She's on a book tour. She's gone to Baltimore on her book tour. Go.

• 1:45:40Chris Ryan?

  What is she doing in Baltimore?

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  On a book tour for her bestseller.

• 1:45:43Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I was just gonna say, if Wayne was Gus, it would be like, "Goddamn, Nick, you got sweetie birds flying around your head!"

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  Give us magical, loud pussy in a Baltimore accent. Do it.

• 1:45:58Bill Simmons?

  He's not prepared for this.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  Going down to the ocean, hon.

• 1:46:02Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you, um, Ryan Ruko?

• 1:46:06Speaker 03

  Please, sure.

• 1:46:07Bill Simmons?

  Announcing the first scene of the movie? Catherine's writing and now she's reaching back. Is she going for the ice pick? You bet.

• 1:46:18Bill Simmons?

  Shout out to Ruko. Just one Oscar, who gets it?

• 1:46:22Speaker 05

  Stone.

• 1:46:22Speaker 03

  Sharon Stone.

• 1:46:23Bill Simmons?

  All right. We all agree. Probably an answerable questions. Dan, was it a big deal when Manny the boxer died in the ring in 1984? Like, cover of Sports Illustrated?

• 1:46:33Speaker 05

  Had to be a huge deal, right?

• 1:46:35Bill Simmons?

  Like, led SportsCenter?

• 1:46:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:46:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I felt like it was a big deal, too.

• 1:46:40Chris Ryan?

  That was also another really weird cop moment, is when they're like, "Maybe if she put on Afro and did blackface, she could be Magna." I'm like, "What the fuck are you talking about?"

• 1:46:49Bill Simmons?

  See? I was gonna let it slide.

• 1:46:55Bill Simmons?

  How long did they date after the movie ended?

• 1:46:57Speaker 03

  Well, how long till she kills him, right? Because that's the answer.

• 1:47:00Bill Simmons?

  Like, is Nick still alive in 1995?

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:47:04Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  No, Nick's-

• 1:47:05Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:47:05Chris Ryan?

  Nick has died of a massive cocaine-induced heart attack.

• 1:47:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, he mentions Rugrats at the grocery store later that day, and she stabs him, I think.

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  If he doesn't retract the Rugrats line, because she's like, "I hate Rugrats," she kills him right then and there. No question. So, it's gotta be just a matter of days. I'm always on the unanswerable questions and how long does he last front. Like, at what point is he like, "Let me see some more of your pages about this detective, so that I can just avoid the exact scenario"

• 1:47:36Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:47:37Speaker 03

  "that you have crafted and live a little longer." But he doesn't ask.

• 1:47:40Bill Simmons?

  I think they, I think Montana goes to the Chiefs, Nick unravels, he's back on the coke, and then she just kills him because he's annoying.

• 1:47:49Chris Ryan?

  He just never believes in Steve Young.

• 1:47:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she just had it. She stabs him to death.

• 1:47:53Bill Simmons?

  Should she have just killed him at the ending?

• 1:47:56Bill Simmons?

  Is that a better ending?

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:47:58Chris Ryan?

  I think it would be like-

• 1:47:59Bill Simmons?

  If she murders him and that's the end of the movie?

• 1:48:02Chris Ryan?

  I don't think it would be like a fun theater going experience if the last thing you see is Michael Douglas dying. Maybe it would be just.

• 1:48:10Speaker 04

  If the movie ends not with his actual death, but with her grabbing the ice pick, like actually grabbing the ice pick, then you leave on something a little bit more.

• 1:48:20Bill Simmons?

  Can we do like the Sopranos ending?

• 1:48:21Speaker 04

  Kind of same.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  I like it, I like it just like it is because it's there, she reaches for it, then she retracts. So there's enough to like, I mean, you wanted to debate whether.

• 1:48:31Chris Ryan?

  I was curious, I mean, like, I think, I, I, I weirdly like, there's 8% of me that's like, but Beth could have done, could have done it. And Catherine also could be crazy.

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  The ice pick's just there.

• 1:48:42Chris Ryan?

  At the same time.

• 1:48:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. I like that this is your like spinning top at the end of Inception.

• 1:48:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:46Speaker 03

  You're like, was it moving?

• 1:48:47Chris Ryan?

  It's haunted me for 30 years.

• 1:48:50Bill Simmons?

  Secret handshake club memorabilia you'd want from this movie? A copy of Love Hurts by Catherine Wolf?

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:48:56Chris Ryan?

  V-neck.

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  Shooter.

• 1:48:57Bill Simmons?

  The V-neck sweater.

• 1:48:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, the V-neck.

• 1:48:59Bill Simmons?

  Would you wear it?

• 1:49:00Chris Ryan?

  I mean, if I had it, yeah.

• 1:49:03Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Craig?

• 1:49:04Speaker 05

  Um, those, those giant red like semen glasses that he wears.

• 1:49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:49:10Speaker 05

  Imagine I just got those on when you come over?

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  Great one.

• 1:49:13Speaker 05

  You know what these are from?

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  Great one.

• 1:49:14Speaker 05

  Johnny Bows's apartment.

• 1:49:15Bill Simmons?

  They're called the semen glasses. New from Chrome Hearts. Um, what would you have, Ben?

• 1:49:22Speaker 04

  I want the ice pick.

• 1:49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. It's gotta be the ice pick. Or the mirror, ceiling mirror.

• 1:49:25Speaker 05

  Mal, the storyboards.

• 1:49:27Speaker 03

  Well, I mean.

• 1:49:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God, the storyboards.

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  That would be great. I would frame them and I would display them tastefully next to my ceiling mirror.

• 1:49:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Bill Simmons?

  The Coach Finstock Mr. Miyagi Award for Best Worst Life Lesson. I think it's, it's actually worth it to risk it all for the fuck of the century. I think is the lesson of this movie. I think Nick wins. Gets a girlfriend, breaks up with somebody he didn't really like that much anyway, gets out of a murder investigation. Gets rid of everybody at work that that he kinda hated. Big dub.

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  She's loaded, she's got money, beautiful properties. I think the life lesson is wash your sheets.

• 1:50:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:08Speaker 04

  I think the life lesson is what Ha said. That's her pussy talking. It ain't your brain.

• 1:50:18Speaker 04

  That happens.

• 1:50:19Bill Simmons?

  CR, what do you got for a double feature choice?

• 1:50:20Chris Ryan?

  Jagged Edge, another Joe Estero House thriller, and it's also set in San Francisco.

• 1:50:25Bill Simmons?

  I like that movie. I had Total Recall.

• 1:50:27Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  Fatal Attraction.

• 1:50:29Bill Simmons?

  Double ver- oh, Fatal.

• 1:50:31Speaker 04

  I had Body of Evidence.

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  The Douglas.

• 1:50:33Speaker 04

  Which is the bad version of this movie.

• 1:50:35Bill Simmons?

  That movie's awful.

• 1:50:36Speaker 04

  With Madonna and Willem Dafoe, which is interesting because the masturbation scene that you say that you want it.

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:50:43Speaker 04

  They actually do that in Body of Evidence.

• 1:50:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:46Speaker 04

  And Willem Dafoe is completely unprepared for it. Madonna just fucking goes for it, and he doesn't know what to do. The Green Goblin is like, what?

• 1:50:55Speaker 03

  Works every time.

• 1:50:56Bill Simmons?

  It's a really horrible movie. Uh, who won the movie of Sharon Stone?

• 1:50:59Speaker 03

  No question.

• 1:51:00Bill Simmons?

  Um, all right, we've never done this on a live show. Craig, we always go to him at the end to see what he thought of the movie, but you'd already seen this one.

• 1:51:07Speaker 05

  Well, because we did this five years ago. That's when I watched it. But I don't think you asked me on that on that show. Uh, this movie is just elite entertainment. We just, we didn't know how good we had it in the early 90s. Like, it's crazy to me that this movie was reviewed poorly, like, compared to what we have now. This movie looks fantastic, it has like an elite actor, great performance. It's based off nothing, huge star in it, made $400 million. Like, this would be the achievement of the fucking decade if this movie came out right now.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, agreed.

• 1:51:37Bill Simmons?

  All right.

• 1:51:37Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 1:51:41Bill Simmons?

  I would also, uh, it's a very good 4K Blu-ray.

• 1:51:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  I bet.

• 1:51:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:46Speaker 03

  Physical media era, yeah.

• 1:51:48Bill Simmons?

  For the San Francisco scenes.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:51:52Speaker 04

  No, but in all seriousness, though, one reason why this movie holds up, or it's so good, or you can watch it now and digest it so easily, is because San Francisco is a character in the movie.

• 1:52:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:52:03Speaker 04

  And we're not making as many movies where Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego are characters in these movies. And they are just like, those cities are immaculate in terms of the way you can film them. You can't fake it. Beautiful, yeah. You can't fake San Francisco. And so like, with that going away makes you have to make this movie, like, in fucking Atlanta or something like that, the volume or something.

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  Basic instinct in the volume would be pretty funny.

• 1:52:27Speaker 04

  It's fucking stupid, right?

• 1:52:28Speaker 03

  That's its legacy, but also, you know, Michael Douglas saying, "I don't remember how often I used to jerk off, but it was a lot." Also important.

• 1:52:37Speaker 04

  Calluses.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  San Francisco's beauty and that, yeah.

• 1:52:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, you don't want to have calluses, that's bad.

• 1:52:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:42Speaker 04

  That'll hurt your guy.

• 1:52:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you guys take San Francisco for granted because you live there, but this city's awesome. And it's a really, really,

• 1:52:52Bill Simmons?

  really, uh, really great movie location city. When you even walk around, you kind of feel like you're in a movie when you're here with all the hills and everything. If I lived here, the power walking, I was telling them, my legs, my legs would be like Adrian Peterson. I would, I would just be, I'd be in the greatest shape of my life. That guy would live here. Um, listen, thanks for coming out, we had a great time.

• 1:53:13Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:53:14Bill Simmons?

  This theater is awesome.

• 1:53:21Bill Simmons?

  We, uh, we love this theater, so we're gonna come back. But thanks for having us, thanks for coming out. Have a great rest of the night, thank you.