‘13 Going on 30’ With Bill Simmons and Juliet Litman

Bill and Juliet just want to be thirty, flirty, and thriving after revisiting the 2004 classic ‘13 Going on 30’ starring Jennifer Garner, Mark Ruffalo, and Judy Greer. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic 2026 Mazda CX-50. Designed for Safety. MazdaUSA.com Find Angry Orchard in a store near you, or visit angryorchard.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where my co-host today, Juliette Lippman, who hasn't been on in a while for a variety of reasons. Maybe we'll discuss them later. You can find her in Jam Session. You can find her in the, what do we call the reality pod now? We changed the name.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Reality Hangover, and we're having a lot of fun.

• 0:24Bill Simmons?

  It used to be Bachelor Party. It was Bachelor Party forever. Going way back. Now it's Reality Hangover. Anyway, you've brought this movie up to me a bunch of times, and now we're gonna do it. 13 Going on 30 is next. This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by Mazda. One reason why Mazda was named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand? Confidence isn't an upgrade. It's a given. Take the Mazda CX-50 Hybrid. It comes standard with a suite of proactive safety features. Mazda, move and be moved. Visit MazdaUSA.com and discover how confidence comes standard. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  Tremfya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremfya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-infect Tremfya, proper training is required. Tremfya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremfya today.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit Tremfyradio.com.

• 2:23Bill Simmons?

  All right. You love this movie.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  I mainly love Jennifer Garner. She is like the second person in Hollywood I would take a bullet for. She is so important to me, and I'm just delighted to be talking about her with this movie. Thanks for having me.

• 2:37Bill Simmons?

  Who's the first person?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Sandra Bullock, of course.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  So the I Would Take a Bullet For You rankings, is Sandra Bullock 1, Garner 2? Am I in the top 10?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  I'm gonna put you at number 4. Keri Russell is number 3, and then we get to you.

• 2:51Bill Simmons?

  Keri Russell, another icon.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 2:54Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Garner said recently about this movie, 13 Going on 30. "We were so little when we shot that movie." I mean, she was like 32. I don't know what she's saying there. But the entire movie, I feel like, is just recent in the zeitgeist over the past couple of years. I've seen both Judy Greer and Mark Ruffalo recently. And we talk about it every time we see each other. Like, are you hearing more about 30 Going on 30 than when it came out all those years ago? And the answer is yes. It's weird when this happens, but it definitely 100% happened with this movie.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  For sure. I think there's a few reasons. Usually, you know, in this era, one of the answers is always TikTok, and I do think that contributes here. When I was prepping for the pod, I was like, let's see what people are saying about this movie over there. And there's a lot of like 30-ish-year-old moms and their teenage daughters doing Halloween costumes together, where one is young Jenna, and then there's adult Jenna. So I think this has very firmly become a family movie that is intergenerational, and, you know, people can watch it together. So I think there's part of that. I think also Jennifer Garner and Mark Ruffalo, like, both, you know, kind of had a big moment with this movie. And then they're both sort of back for various reasons. And Jennifer Garner is ubiquitous, not just for being an actress, though,

• 4:07Speaker 01

  and I'd love to discuss that with you, because her career is so fascinating. And so I think there's just a lot of entry points for this movie. And in rewatching it, I was actually just like really taken by how family-friendly it is. And there's not really anything that like your 10-year-old can't really see. Maybe some stuff they wouldn't get, but it would all be like above board. So people can just gather around this movie and watch it together. And then there's a bunch of iconic things from it, like the fashion, the hairstyles, a few lines. Like, there's many things that have transcended the movie that I think also can grab you.

• 4:40Bill Simmons?

  Great timing. '04, right as she's about to date, start dating Affleck, which we can talk about. She's on Alias, which is a hit show. And she kind of needed that one movie to push her into the zeitgeist a little bit more, which is what happened with this. I remember there was, it was such an unabashed big rip-off, which is funny, the writers were like, oh, no, we were influenced by a lot of movies. Like, no, this movie's big. But it was such, like, it was like critically, I wouldn't say beloved. But I think as the years passed, and I watched it in my family, because my daughter was born a year after this movie. And my wife and daughter absolutely loved this movie. And so people are wondering, like, why is this on the Rewatchables? It's like, this has been on in my house for 20 years.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 5:25Bill Simmons?

  And I get sucked in, I get sucked out. There's a lot of fun parts, but for the most part, just a really happy movie.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:33Bill Simmons?

  Like, it's just a fun hang. Even when we hit the part where it's like gonna, you know, every rom-com at about like the 1 hour 10-minute mark, something has to happen where we have to play the sad music. And this, in this case, the sad music is Vienna by Billy Joel. It's like one of the best scenes in the movie. And I think Vienna is another big piece of this movie.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Bill Simmons?

  And I have a lot of Vienna thoughts later, but that became a big part of why this movie, I felt like, just had a second, third, fourth life. But now you have people like my daughter, who's now in her 20s, who loves this movie. And then when she has kids, if she has kids, I assume she will, she will pass this movie down to her. And I just feel like that's what's gonna happen now for the next 50 years.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Definitely. And in nine years, Zoe will watch this movie when she's turning 30 and be like, it all comes together. And it's funny to watch it as a young person and then come back to it, like, in 30 or older. And Jennifer Garner's performance of, she, you know, she's, I think you said she was 31, I think, when she filmed it. And a 31-year-old playing a 13-year-old is like a very funny thing to consider, and she does it so well. But I think that's another reason why it's so popular, is like 30 and flirty and thriving is something people have been saying since 2004. And when you turn 30, you want to watch the movie to remember why she says that. And it's very, it's very fun.

• 6:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we should talk, well, let's talk body switch movies first, then we'll talk Jennifer Garner.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:01Bill Simmons?

  It's crazy we've made so many of these.

• 7:05Bill Simmons?

  This is a premise that can't exist in real life. And there's probably been 50 of these made. They get made all the time. When Big came out, there were like three other versions of Big that were out, and they're all competing with each other in the body switch space. And then when this came out, it was right after Freaky Friday had come out. And it just feels like we keep going in waves with this person's now in this person's body, which is an absurd premise. This would never happen.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. It can't hold up to logic, and yet people keep returning to it. Like, when Jenna goes back at the end of the movie, and she remembers everything that happens, she then has to live like her second life with the memories of what happened in her first life? Like, that makes no sense.

• 7:48Bill Simmons?

  And how do you remember everything? And do you learn from the experience? Craig, what body switch, who would you want to body switch with if you had to body switch with anybody? Would it be Chris Collinsworth?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  I was gonna go Steph Curry, but Collinsworth is top 5, probably.

• 8:02Bill Simmons?

  Steph Curry. So you're just switching bodies with Steph Curry, just murdering the 22 Celtics?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:08Bill Simmons?

  And then learning some lessons.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:12Bill Simmons?

  Learning some lessons after. I rank body switch movies, but I really did the comedies, because if it's not comedies, then you get into like, there's a whole bunch of, there's been horror movies, science fiction stuff. So I'm ruling out Face Off.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm ruling out Freaky, which I actually really liked with Vince Vaughn in 2020. And movies like Kevin Can Wait and Down to Earth. These are just the pure sitcom-y, almost like comedies, switch things. I'm also ruling out a movie I never heard of when I was researching this, Nine Lives in 2016.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  It's vaguely familiar, yeah.

• 8:50Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Spacey, dad of a family, becomes trapped in the body of his family cat, Mr. Fuzzy Pants? Don't remember that one.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Is that the version of Hollywood Jail that Kevin Spacey was sent to?

• 9:03Bill Simmons?

  Maybe he was trying to tell us something. And then another movie that I think I blocked out of my mind, 2015, The Cobbler? Adam Sandler walks in people's shoes?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  I never even heard of that.

• 9:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I think that one kind of, everyone thinks the Sandman, who I love, has just been batting 1,000, and he just hasn't. There's been a couple whiffs, and that was definitely one of them. All right. On a scale of 1 to 10?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:27Bill Simmons?

  So I'm gonna rank, I'm gonna build to number 10.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  All right.

• 9:31Bill Simmons?

  Number 1, 1 out of 10, The Hot Chick in 2002. Rob Schneider switching bodies with Rachel McAdams. I can't believe she hasn't made enough money yet to just destroy all copies of this.

• 9:43Bill Simmons?

  Maybe she needs to do, what was the one, The Notebook?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  The Notebook with Ryan Gosling, her finest, maybe second finest movie?

• 9:52Bill Simmons?

  Maybe she needs to do Notebook Two on Netflix or Amazon. Take all the money and destroy things of the hot chicks. That's one out of 10.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:00Bill Simmons?

  Two out of 10, Dream a Little Dream with the Corys. Corey Haim and Corey Feldman.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 10:06Bill Simmons?

  This was the rare four-person body switch. It was a teenage couple switching bodies with an older couple. Really bad, but somehow made a sequel. Three out of 10, there's a whole bunch of father-son versions of this, which never really worked, including Seventeen Again with Matthew Perry and Zac Efron. The interesting set that was, by the way.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, yeah.

• 10:28Bill Simmons?

  Like Father, Like Son in 1987, Kirk Cameron and Dudley Moore. How would those two be related?

• 10:33Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 10:34Bill Simmons?

  And then Vice Versa in 1988 with Judge Reinhold and Fred Savage is probably the best of the three. Anyway, that's three out of 10. Four out of 10, The Change-Up. With Ryan Reynolds and Jason Bateman, 2009. Both of them were kind of like, we can be on a movie poster, but none of them were having success with movies yet. And this is not a very good movie. Five out of 10, now we're moving into the Juliet stratosphere here. Prelude to a Kiss. Meg Ryan, Alec Baldwin, what are your thoughts on this?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  It was like the latter days of Meg's arc. And it sort of felt like a favor that she did it, but I enjoyed it. I mean, everything in that, everything from the Pixie Cup forward is sort of a different, a different era for her, but it's good.

• 11:16Bill Simmons?

  She didn't go to the NBA Finals with this one, but she definitely made the playoffs and has good stats, but it is not a round two movie.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's okay.

• 11:25Bill Simmons?

  Six out of 10, All of Me with Steve Martin and Lily Tomlin. This is just during the Steve Martin run of like really solid comedies he was making in the eighties.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  I love Lily Tomlin, so I'm in.

• 11:37Bill Simmons?

  Seven out of 10, Freaky Friday. Not 1976 Freaky Friday, which is a weird movie, which I saw in the theater with my mom. 2003, Lindsay Lohan, Jamie Lee Curtis. This is a rock solid movie, really good.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  It's a great movie. It's a classic for me. Lindsay Lohan's fantastic in it. Also, I remember going on like Kazaa and downloading the songs that she sang in it. Like I like wanted the music from the movie. It's legitimately really good. I understand why they did the sequel like last year.

• 12:05Bill Simmons?

  So Freaky Friday, she had the movie where she played the twins.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Parent Trap.

• 12:09Bill Simmons?

  Parent Trap. And then she had Mean Girls on the span of two years and was probably like minus 130 to win an Oscar at one point on Fanduel, which didn't exist back then, but that was the peak.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. The year from Freaky Friday to Mean Girls, followed by her music, the song Rumors. It was just like such an amazing run of like this, this person cannot miss. And then she, then she missed a lot, but that's okay. We'll always have that one year.

• 12:35Bill Simmons?

  It's okay. It's okay to make mistakes, but yeah, she was really going for it. Eight out of 10, I have 13 going on 30. Nine out of 10 being John Malkovich. And then 10 out of 10 Big.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  That's a nice wrinkle in there.

• 12:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and it's, I, I really wasn't sure if that should even be included, but I think it should be because it is, it's basically the really smart.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:56Bill Simmons?

  Highbrow version of, of one of these movies. So, but I think Big's the best one ever. You agree with that?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I think it's like, it's like the icon and everything else feels derivative from it. I mean, 13 Going on 30 admitted to it in various ways, like in all the press and everything, but yeah.

• 13:11Bill Simmons?

  There's multiple, she's eating the shrimp at the party, throws the thing, like that's, that's in there.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 13:18Bill Simmons?

  When she wakes up, doesn't know where she is, touches her boobs, he like looks down in his pants. The other thing with this movie, it's the tail end of the rom-com boom.

• 13:29Bill Simmons?

  And either you or Wesley are one of the two best people on the planet to talk about this, but we have this, the Meg Ryan, Julia Roberts fueled boom, and we're just making them for 10 straight years. Oh, Four gave us 51 states, Along Came Polly, Mean Girls, and 13 Going on 30, plus Garden State, Before Sunset, and The Notebook.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  It's crazy. So many good movies.

• 13:52Bill Simmons?

  And it kind of, we kind of ran out of ideas right around here for, for the rom-coms. And I also think we might have, we had this incredible Hall of Fame class of Reese Witherspoon, Sandra Bullock, all like these, kind of the class right after Meg Ryan. Jennifer Garner's in there, Drew Barrymore made a bunch of them. And we never really replenished the roster.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  And that was kind of it. We had some people we were counting on. I think Rachel McAdams would have been a good one, but there, but the next class just couldn't do it.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  And for whatever reason, Rachel McAdams, like she, she was never like the lead. I love Morning Glory. Have you seen Morning Glory lately?

• 14:32Bill Simmons?

  You've, you've, you've tried to fish hook me with it a bunch of times.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  That's like her movie, but all of her other great rom-coms, she's like 50% of the equation at most. Like Wedding Crashers is probably her best comedy movie. And she's like the number three person in that at most. And like, you know, it just sort of feels like it never really took off for her in the right way. And I actually think it's sort of similar to Jennifer Garner. Like, I think Jennifer Garner almost came like a tad too late for the rom-com boom. Like, if she had had Sweet Home Alabama two years earlier, like Reese, I think we would think about her differently. But she was, you know, a TV actress. And so as a result, like her, her rom-com moment sort of stands alone almost. We're like, it could have been, it could have been more if, if the timing was slightly different.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  And by 2005, like just what, I, I think like a new set of like teens kind of take over, like to the Lindsay Lohan point. Like, it's like her and like Hilary Duff and like this first generation or this next generation of Disney stars starts kind of like going younger.

• 15:32Bill Simmons?

  Amanda Bynes. Honestly, some of them weren't ready. Some of them couldn't handle it. The spotlight was too bright.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so it ended up being like these family movies for her instead of like what we consider like these, you know, canonical rom-coms essentially. And of course, the Jen Apatow era starts to set in and all that.

• 15:49Bill Simmons?

  So I was gonna say that. I think that was the other thing that happened is the traditional rom-com, which just exists. You just know what it is for 15 years from when Harry Met Sally.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:59Bill Simmons?

  All the way through, basically to 2005, A Lot Like Love, one of my wife's favorite movies. That's kind of the, the end line.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 16:08Bill Simmons?

  The Apatow generations coming in, they're taking a lot of the rom-com stuff, but then they're also bringing the R-rated comedy in it and they kind of blend it.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:16Bill Simmons?

  And that, I felt like kind of killed rom-coms a little bit because then the rom-coms were trying to be more like the Apatow movies. Like The Change-Up's a good example. That's a pretty raunchy movie.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. I think they also just tried to get a little too high concept. Like I always think about The Breakup, which is a movie I really don't like, but that was like.

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  I don't like it either.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  A depressing movie disguised as a rom-com because in the moment, Vince Vaughn had so much juice. And I think that sort of like men just took over comedy where it used to be a little bit more like skewing towards women and more of like family centric. But like, I think about Old School in 2003, just before this, as also just like a major turning point because it was so popular. Same with Anchorman, like those were like, when I was, you know, 18, those were like the biggest movies. And there was like, kind of like no time for rom-coms in the same breath. And like, you could only really focus on one. And it was just like, Kristi, I think Christina Applegate's like an amazing comedic actress. But you know, she's again, like third most famous, third most important person.

• 17:14Bill Simmons?

  She could have made a bunch of rom-coms, right?

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Well, she did. They weren't that popular.

• 17:17Bill Simmons?

  Good ones.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's like, there's also these meta-rom-coms that come turn of the decade. You know, where like the, the one Timberlake made, the one Ashton Kutcher made, like those ones, Friends with Benefits, those kind of ones where they're winking to the ones from the past because they know they're basically ripping them off. And they're just not as good. Five Year Engagement, I think is, that's probably the best of that group. And I, and I wouldn't even put it in the class of some of these.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  It's kind of a sad movie. You're just like, why are you guys still engaged? And like, I feel like also winter is bad for rom-coms. And there's the point in The Five Year Engagement where it's like really cold in Ann Arbor. And you're just like, why are they there? Like, give us like a beautiful city vista.

• 17:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like, his confidence has been ruined.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so they, they were trying to take them to the next level. And that's one of the things with this movie. This movie is 97 minutes.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Amazing length. Thank you so much.

• 18:08Bill Simmons?

  Happy for 92 of them, right? And we're outside, we're in New York. New York's never looked better. She's happy the entire time. Ruffalo looks great. Everybody looks great. And this is just what, what, this is the model of how to do this.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Also, I was thinking a lot about like why this movie would never be made now. And like the exposition scenes of this movie, like in the beginning when she's in Mark Ruffalo's apartment and she's like trying to figure out what happened. It's like a very artistic scene. Like we can talk about more when we get into the categories, but like there's so much craft in, in this tightly made 97-minute movie that like, there's not a lot of wasted time. Like I, there's not like a lot of downtime to, you know, check your phone or whatever. It's very tight. And I also think that like, everyone has a lane. Like it's both, it feels familiar, but each performance is like pretty strong. So you, you feel like there's like new life in it.

• 19:03Bill Simmons?

  So I was thinking, The Wishing Dust that they have in this, whatever, that pops out of the dream house.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 19:10Bill Simmons?

  Zoltar. And then One Wish Willow from Obsession. Those are the three versions of the same thing, this mystical. I do have some nitpicks about the house, but the premise of how they get into this, it's like, okay, she's in the closet. There was some magic fairy dust and she was wishing, all right, talk me into this. All right, Jennifer Garner, let's go.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Jennifer Garner.

• 19:34Bill Simmons?

  She's 31 when she makes this movie. She looks lights out fantastic. It's the, it's the most likeable charismatic she's ever been in a movie, I think. Perfect role for her. I can't really imagine anybody else in it. And it's a little like the Tom Hanks in Big where there's an innocence with her. There's a sexiness to her, but it also makes sense that she's not comfortable in her own body. And she just kind of nails it and she, and she's just a great hang for 97 minutes.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  It's great. I, I have one alt that I wanted to suggest for you, which is Cameron Diaz.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Is she too pretty for this? Is she too, like, everyone knows who she is? But the reason I think that is I think Cameron Diaz is one of our great-

• 20:17Bill Simmons?

  She definitely could have done this from a physicality standpoint.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. The physical comedian aspect of it, that when she first wakes up in the apartment, I was like, this is so Cameron Diaz. Like, she must have, like, watched her or something.

• 20:28Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  But she doesn't have the same sort of innocence that Jennifer Garner is able to bring. And like, I think that's been key to Jennifer Garner's career. But I, but that's the only other person I was thinking of throughout this movie.

• 20:37Bill Simmons?

  But here's the thing, if this came out in 2004 with Cameron Diaz, I already have spent 10 years of movies with Cameron Diaz. There's no discovery with her. One of the great things about this movie and Jennifer Garner is unless you watch Alias, you didn't really have a history with her, you know?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 20:52Bill Simmons?

  Whereas Pretty Woman was the same thing with Julia Roberts. Sandra Bullock, same thing in Speed, where I don't have any baggage of other movie roles with them. And I'm just like, this is the movie where like, oh, I'm kind of falling for you as I watch this movie because I don't really know you from any other things. I didn't watch Alias.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Did you ever watch Felicity?

• 21:10Bill Simmons?

  Didn't watch Felicity.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  That was her first major role. As a, as a Felicity obsessive, I feel a lot of, like, ownership over Jennifer Garner, which I, I'm not entitled to.

• 21:18Bill Simmons?

  She was only in it for a couple of episodes though, right?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  She's in it for three. She's in it in the first season for two, and then she comes back at the very end for a third. She met her first husband, Scott Foley, on the set when she was in season one. So it's sort of like part of the lore. But then I was obsessed with Catch Me If You Can when it came out. And she has a great cameo in that. So, you know, I, I personally brought a lot of baggage of Jennifer Garner to the, to the movie. And was like so happy for her to get this role. Is this the first time you really saw her though? It must have been.

• 21:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was looking back at the IMDb.

• 21:50Bill Simmons?

  She basically lost her entire twenties to bad shows and movies and things that almost made it but didn't. Like, she was in a show in 1998 called Significant Others on Fox.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:01Bill Simmons?

  And it was about a bunch of twenty-somethings that live in LA and they're friends. And I actually probably would have watched that show.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 22:09Bill Simmons?

  I liked shows like that. I don't even remember. Maybe I watched it and don't even remember it. But, so that show bombed, that lasted five episodes. Then she was Jennifer Love Hewitt's best friend in Time of Your Life on Fox, where they spun Jennifer Love Hewitt off. She moves to New York to find her birth mother.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:28Bill Simmons?

  And I actually did watch a couple of episodes of that show because I liked Jennifer Love Hewitt.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  And we both love Party of Five.

• 22:34Bill Simmons?

  And we love Party of Five, had to support the franchise. But that show somehow lasted 18 episodes. I don't remember any though.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  It's crazy. I think I watched all 18, but I, I might be the only person.

• 22:44Bill Simmons?

  Felicity, three episodes. And then in 01, Alias finally happens. But she was toiling away there for eight years. Like, she was a hostess at a New York City restaurant at one point. She, there's a famous story where she babysat for Stephen Colbert's kids.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 23:00Bill Simmons?

  So she bounced around a little bit from an IMDb standpoint. Alias happened when we launched Jimmy Kimmel Show. It's so funny thinking back to this, but the first year of Jimmy Kimmel Show, he's on ABC, Alias is taking off on ABC. And he did this whole running bit about how he was in love with Jennifer Garner. And, and she came on and, and he did this whole, like, he was like a schoolboy who had a crush on her, like an ABC crush. And that's how long ago that, that she hit. But Alias was the thing.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Oh, it, big time. It started in 01. There's like a lot of stories about how JJ Abrams would go between the Felicity set and the Alias set and they're right next to each other on the same lot. And she then did that for five seasons. One of my favorite things about Jennifer Garner is like she stays close with, with coworkers, co-stars, and like she still-

• 23:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you always judge that. You like when, when the celebrities don't stay close with the coworkers, you notice. Julia Police is weighing in with reports.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And she is one of the reasons I love her. She's, I think Victor Garber, I think officiated her wedding with Ben Affleck.

• 24:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  They're still really close. She was recently at Mark Ruffalo's Hollywood Walk of Fame Star Ceremony. She gave a speech. She's still really close with Bradley Cooper. Like, she helped him out with, like, Leonard Cohen press when he was doing that, just to like, I don't know, she like moderated some 57-minute talk in a theater that I watched all of for some reason because I love her on YouTube. I wasn't even there. And she's still really close with Judy Greer, who she just reunited with. And of course, one of my favorite TV shows of the year, Five Star Weekend. So, you know, like, it's amazing how much-

• 24:39Bill Simmons?

  An abomination of a show.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  But an absolutely great time. Come on.

• 24:43Bill Simmons?

  My wife devoured it with a fork and a knife and A1 sauce. Just absolutely devoured it. I was just there making jokes the whole time.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  I was anticipating it for about 14 months. So when it finally arrived, I was ready. And I, I had the time, time of my life. I had a great time. Like, I just, a lot of nautical things. But anyway, check it out.

• 25:01Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Garner, a celebrity chef. Right? Celebrity chef.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  She's like an Instagram chef. She's not even a celebrity chef.

• 25:08Bill Simmons?

  Who somehow has like a $45 million house in Nantucket. And invites all these women that she's friends with and maybe not friends with to her $45 million house.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:22Bill Simmons?

  Plans the whole weekend in the most anal, A-type way possible. And then shenanigans happen.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Like, barely. Like, they just sort of like go, like, not, not much happens is sort of the point. It just turns out there's a lot of, like, lies to expose, but-

• 25:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, spoiler, her husband dies and one of the ladies that comes to the, the weekend is the lady he was having an affair with that she finds out about that weekend.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  And they met online.

• 25:47Bill Simmons?

  They all figure it out. Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  It's a fan. She, she invites a fan to her home on Nantucket where like, you need a ferry to get off. So if there's something goes awry, it's like hard to part. So-

• 25:57Bill Simmons?

  You know what I'm never doing? Inviting a fan to a vacation that I'm having.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, would you ever do that? I don't see that happening. I don't see-

• 26:04Bill Simmons?

  Also, her husband was Josh Hamilton, my guy from Kicking and Screaming. I hated to see him have a texting accident.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  What about Chloe 70 as a townie? I mean, no one has ever been less of a townie than Chloe 70.

• 26:15Bill Simmons?

  It was really, it was, it was tough.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Anyway, Jennifer Garner, what I wanted to say, what's crazy to think about, she's doing, you know, 22 episodes a year of, of Alias. And then in her summer break, she's shooting a movie every year. That's like, that's a lot of work. That's like very hard.

• 26:32Bill Simmons?

  Driven, and she's married. Yeah, she does. Catch Me If You Can in 2002, Daredevil, where she reconnects with Ben Affleck, who she'd already been on Pearl Harbor with. She's in Alias, 13 Going on 30. Starts dating Ben Affleck right around there. The movie career, the, the best movie she ever made, other than this one, Juno. She's the female lead in Dallas Buyers Club, which was respected. And I would say Danny Collins would be the other one. I really liked Danny Collins.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Okay, interesting. Yeah, I think this is by far her, her biggest credit. I think Juno, it's an interesting life for that movie. You know, it's like, it made a big impression when it came out and then-

• 27:15Bill Simmons?

  Culturally mattered for a year or two and hasn't held up in the same way.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Also, I think it's part of the Bateman Renaissance, like around the same time as Arrested Development and stuff. Like, but it just like doesn't really get acknowledged. And I think people have like a lot of flaws with it. But it was, it was sort of like a turning point for her because she was not, not likable in that movie. Like, and she's just sort of, it was like, it's kind of like the darker character of that movie.

• 27:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't like dark Jennifer Garner.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Me neither, and I don't-

• 27:39Bill Simmons?

  She did that in Peppermint too, which is basically Taken or John Wick for a female who loses her child. I can't even remember the plot, but she's, it's like an action movie and it's just, I don't want, I want happy Jennifer Garner.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not her. Like, that's not actually her personality. And I, I think that one of the reasons she's so charming in this, and she has said this in many interviews, is that like Jenna Rink is similar to her personality. And so she could like really connect with the character. And that obviously comes through.

• 28:07Bill Simmons?

  We should also mention the, the Affleck relationship coming off Bennifer, where he was in a relationship that was so famous and so gigantic that it actually got a nickname. I think that might have been the first one to get the nickname.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Really? I gotta think about that.

• 28:24Bill Simmons?

  I feel like it beat Brangelina by a year. I don't remember a relationship, nicknames.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  I, I just want to say that I read a 2017 interview where Ben Affleck says he and Jennifer Garner fell in love on the set of Electra. So I don't think we even have to dance around. I mean, Daredevil, you don't even have to dance around it. 2002, he said, oh, they shot it in 2002. And he said that's when they fell in love, so.

• 28:47Bill Simmons?

  But he was with-

• 28:49Speaker 01

  J Lo at the time. So it's, it's all a little fuzzy. You know, there was Scott Foley, there was Michael Vartan, and then-

• 28:56Bill Simmons?

  So she had Scott Foley, then broke up with Scott Foley, divorced him, started dating Michael Vartan, and then there was an Affleck overlap.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  That's correct. Can I read you something really funny from-

• 29:08Bill Simmons?

  You know what, Juliet? Actors just fall for each other. They're on the set, close quarters. They're making out. They're supposed to have sparks and connections.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's insane to think that you wouldn't. Like, if you are trying to play a part as best you can, wouldn't you like fall in love with the person who's also doing that opposite you? Like, on these long days? I, I think it's completely understandable.

• 29:28Bill Simmons?

  I felt this way about Craig a bunch of times on the Rewatchables. Like, we spent so much time together and he's a handsome guy, you know?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  It's very understandable.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  Mark Ruffalo. Did you get all your Jennifer Garner takes out or do you have any more? You have more in the holster?

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I'm sure we'll get to them. I just think that she's electric. I love her. And I think, we'll, we'll talk about it in her performance through the categories and stuff. I, I just think that she should have had a better career. And I think part of that is because she, like, has been very open about choosing family. Because right after this movie comes out, their first daughter is born shortly thereafter, so.

• 30:04Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say that, I, I think she's two, three movies short, but I agree with you. But I think it was 100% the family thing. She just became a mom. She started raising kids and stopped working as much.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was just like, I'm doing one movie a year when it fits in. She and Ben Affleck used to talk about how they would never film at the same time, the family would move for each other's projects. So that, that's her choice. And I, I think that she seems like a pretty happy, fulfilled person. So I think it was the right move for her. But as a fan, I think she could have been more Reese level. And I don't think she's quite there.

• 30:31Bill Simmons?

  The frustrating thing, when you look back at the IMDb, she just didn't get the chances till later.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:36Bill Simmons?

  Like, her twenties, it probably should have happened. Like, she could have easily been on Party of Five in 1995 or one of the, one of those shows or she could have joined the cast of 9020 in season six.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:47Bill Simmons?

  And then gotten the, gotten the chops to start making movies from there.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Imagine her as Valerie, what a, what a life that would have been.

• 30:55Bill Simmons?

  She could have been a good Claire.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. Okay, I love Claire. One of my faves.

• 31:00Bill Simmons?

  You like Claire.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I've always loved her. Yeah, she's a great character.

• 31:03Bill Simmons?

  Claire hated her 9020 experience. She basically talks about it like she went to go serve in Vietnam for four years. Jenny Garth really sounds like she was an absolute nightmare.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Think she was hard to be around. And I think Shannon Doherty was tough too, but she left, so it's fine.

• 31:17Bill Simmons?

  Mark Ruffalo hits the scene a little, another one who's a little bit of a late bloomer. Hits the scene in 2000 with You Can Count on Me, which is an extraordinary movie that we're gonna do on the Rewatchables at some point.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 31:28Bill Simmons?

  His IMDB is awesome from that point on. It is like-

• 31:31Speaker 01

  It's kind of astonishing.

• 31:32Bill Simmons?

  The choices that he makes is so much fun. He's in The Last Castle with Redford. He's in a movie called XXXY, which I cannot recommend highly enough from a to be, like, just, just throw it on. It's one of those, it's, it's, there's a million of these, but this one, I think, is really good. And your girl Claire's in it.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 31:52Bill Simmons?

  Kathleen Robertson.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  I gotta go home and do that. Okay.

• 31:54Bill Simmons?

  I am a, I'm a huge XXXY fan. I would own it on 4K Blu-ray if it existed. In the Cut with Meg Ryan, really weird movie. We Don't Live Here Anymore, which I recently watched, two months ago, with Laura Dern and Peter Kraus is in it. And, uh, who's the other one? Naomi Watts.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 32:12Bill Simmons?

  It's like a weird couples might like each other.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 32:16Bill Simmons?

  They, they just film it in the middle of nowhere.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  I vaguely remember this movie.

• 32:19Bill Simmons?

  Then he's in Internal Sunshine. And then in 04, he does 13 Going on 30 and Collateral. He's filming at the same time. Unbelievable.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  It's incredible.

• 32:29Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say, is that a rewatchables category? The strangest two movies somebody filmed at the same time? He was filming this and going back and forth with Collateral?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  That's incredible. That's also like, um, like Collateral, such an amazing LA movie, and 13 Going on 30, a great New York movie. It's very different mindset. And also 2004 in particular, it's like, just couldn't be more different. Um, that's amazing. Kudos to him.

• 32:52Bill Simmons?

  I have this written down. Tell me if I'm right or wrong. Most overqualified rom-com lead since Tom Hanks.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 33:02Bill Simmons?

  Too good of an actor to be in this, which is why he's good at this.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you can tell that he's like disdainful, even though he seems to like Jennifer Garner, um, like in person. But you can, throughout the movie, he's just like, I don't want to be here.

• 33:14Bill Simmons?

  Uh, it, it does have a feeling of like, I can't believe my agent talked me into this.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, he views it the way people usually view TV. Like, I can't believe I'm doing this television show to get, you know, into a movie. Um, I guess that's right.

• 33:28Bill Simmons?

  It's weird, because later in his career, Mark Ruffalo would never have disdain for something that would become so obvious publicly.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  He would never have strong opinions that people were aware of.

• 33:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I think that might be right. I mean, I'm just trying to think of all of the other ones in, in history. Like, I, I think you could maybe put Ryan Gosling in that category, but he wasn't in that many rom-coms.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  Ruffalo's a better actor than Reynolds. Yeah, like Billy Crystal, Ruffalo's probably, like, Ruffalo's the lead in Task. You know, he's done like real shit.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Bill Simmons?

  So.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  I, I think it's, I think that he's like, Tom Hanks is really the only other one of the conversation. You're right.

• 34:02Bill Simmons?

  Well, this story, this is, uh, Steven Seagal,

• 34:07Bill Simmons?

  shitting on himself award, whatever we call that one, for craziest anecdote from, from, uh, the filming. Ruffalo almost left the project during rehearsals of the thriller scene because he hated the rehearsal process and the choreography so much. And they, he literally almost left. They had to like talk him into staying into the movie as they're rehearsing thriller with them, because he was so horrified, but.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  That's like, what I find really funny about that is he's, he got his chops on Broadway, right? Like in plays?

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  And you would think that someone like in the theater scene would be a little bit more respectful of like grand choreography. But I know, I now know, he's not a musicals guy. Theater only, serious plays, so noted.

• 34:45Bill Simmons?

  They also-

• 34:46Speaker 01

  By the way, it's obvious in the scene.

• 34:48Bill Simmons?

  It's a mail-in by him. But I think that's one of the reasons it's so much fun. They also cut out a scene, um, later in the movie when he screams at Jenna, "They knew about Sparkle Magazine! They knew, and you cut those photos loose!" That got cut out.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  If they had left it in, you would have been done this movie on the rewatchables already. You know?

• 35:08Bill Simmons?

  Where do you stand on is Mark Ruffalo how handsome he is? Because my wife has always absolutely loved him.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. I think young Mark Ruffalo had a real like too cool for school charm.

• 35:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Um, he's never really been for me. I like a prettier, more like kind of conventionally handsome rom-com lead. But I see it, like, I get that that's a type. Also, there's something about him that's like imperfect, that is refreshing, especially with his teeth and stuff, but he's never changed.

• 35:32Bill Simmons?

  Doing a good job of holding back here. Uh, Judy Greer's 2000s. Her Mount Rammore, Wedding Planner, 13 Going on 30, 27 Dresses and Love Happens. She's basically the Robert Horry of rom-coms.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 35:48Bill Simmons?

  And what, and somebody that you personally absolutely love and adore.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Love, yeah, absolutely love. My favorite Judy Greer performance, this is really random, Descendants, with, with George Clooney. She's really fucking good in that movie.

• 35:59Bill Simmons?

  Really good in that. I agree.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Uh, so fantastic.

• 36:02Bill Simmons?

  I thought you were gonna say that terrible Peacock show where she plays the, the bitch.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Uh, Five Star Weekend?

• 36:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Five Star Weekend.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  She's Elektra, okay.

• 36:11Bill Simmons?

  She basically plays Lucy Tom Tom 20 years later.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Um, the funny thing about Judy Greer is she is in so many things, and it's those four movies that you listed is what she is known for. I think because she's so good at it, like, and the, and the two, The Wedding Planner and 13 Going on 30, were back to back, I think, in back to back years as well. And, and hilariously enough, it's with J-Lo and Jennifer Garner, um, in consecutive movies. And it's so funny how like, in this era, they're linked in many ways.

• 36:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  And, um, she's just great at it. She's also, you know, she's, I think the, the Wedding Planner role is so different. She's like this baddie, nervous assistant. And then she's like this bitch in 13 Going on 30. I actually think she's played more mean people than like of the, the Wedding Planner character, but she's so much better known for being like the likable best friend or whatever. Um, and it's just actually kind of a disservice to her because she's, is much more than that. She seems like, um, she actually is like a pretty great actress.

• 37:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she is. The two moves, the super sweet friend, or the, I thought you were sweet, but you're actually a horror show. And those are like the two types of characters she plays. Well, Catherine Han in 2003 to 2010 was in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, When a Date with Tad Hamilton, A Lot Like Love, The Holiday, and How Do You Know? It's really them in the finals for Mount Rammore?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  I think it's Catherine Han, just based on the credit for credit. I think those movies, she's more impactful, honestly. Like, I think Judy Greer is, is really good.

• 37:40Bill Simmons?

  I agree with you.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  But like Catherine Han also just sort of makes each of those her own. And also Catherine Han was really able to like rise above that image of her. I mean, think about her career since, whereas Judy Greer is still known as like the rom-com friend.

• 37:52Bill Simmons?

  A Lot Like Love, a movie I've seen way too many times that appeared on my 50 most rewatchables of the 21st century to a lot of people's horror, because my wife watches it all the time. And talk about rising above.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 38:06Bill Simmons?

  She's pregnant at one point in that movie, like just caring shit. Um, then we have Andy Serkis is in this movie too, AKA Gollum, playing the magazine editor. Where do you stand on Andy Serkis?

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Well, the craziest thing is that this is after Lord of the Rings. Like, all, all three of the movies are out, and he's, he's back playing him, you know, as himself, embodied, playing this guy.

• 38:27Bill Simmons?

  I don't mind him.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  I think the more you watch it, like, the better his performance seems. Because there's like, just like funny moments that he lands, like, um, when he says like his, he's like, said his balls are being squished or whatever. It's actually like really funny. At first, sort of like, is this the right movie for that? But the more I watched it, I was like, oh, actually, this is kind of, like, it's a connective tissue for the movie. It actually works really well. So I'm in.

• 38:50Bill Simmons?

  He's basically doing the Martin Short and Father of the Bride completely over the top.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Brunk?

• 38:54Bill Simmons?

  Sidekick character. And then Poise Magazine.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Poise, yes, okay.

• 39:00Bill Simmons?

  What's going on here? So our friend Wesley, who reviewed this for the Boston Globe, we'll get to that later, called Poise a Photoshop mix of Cosmo, Jane, and Lucky.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yeah, it's like a Cosmo versus glamour kind of thing of like sparkle and poise.

• 39:16Bill Simmons?

  Would you have subscribed to Poise in 2004?

• 39:19Speaker 01

  No, in 2004, I subscribed to People, Us, and In Touch. I was already more on like the celebrity paparazzi side and not on like the women's magazine side of things.

• 39:30Bill Simmons?

  So this wasn't like a YM?

• 39:32Speaker 01

  No, and I think that YM is-

• 39:34Bill Simmons?

  It's an adult version of the YM, basically, so.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Lucky is, I think, a good parallel.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like, yeah, like Allure a little bit too, which is more makeup driven. But like, yeah, I think it's, it's more like that. And YM in 17, of course, he famously wrote for YM. Um, so.

• 39:50Bill Simmons?

  Guy needs, guy needs to cash a check.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I think that those are more for like the middle school years, like looking back to when you were 17.

• 39:59Bill Simmons?

  Poise.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Poise.

• 40:01Bill Simmons?

  Um, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back and talk about the actual real star of this movie, The Music, right after this. This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween season calls for something good to drink. Grab Angry Orchard's new limited edition crisp apple and crisp imperial 19.2 ounces cans featuring the iconic Ghostface from Scream. I guess he is iconic at this point. Available now. Don't get angry. Get Orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard Cider Company LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly.

• 40:43Bill Simmons?

  Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell. I like those guys. Star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Minnehoshan and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s. Filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment

• 41:26Bill Simmons?

  and easily one of the best films of the year. Don't miss Wild Horse 9. Only in theaters November 6th. Get tickets now. So this movie is advertised as Jennifer Garner being the star of Thirteen Going on Thirty, but it's actually the music. This is one of the best soundtracks ever in a movie. They have The Go-Go's with Head Over Heels twice. Jessie's Girl, Thriller. Not just Thriller, but the entire Thriller song. Burning Down the House, Talking Heads, Madonna Crazy for You, Whitney Houston, I Want to Dance with Somebody. Oh, What I Like About You cover. It's not the original one, but it's a cover. Pretty Good Day. So you get a little more modern in there. Vanilla Ice, Ice Ice Baby. Vienna by Billy Joel.

• 42:11Bill Simmons?

  Liz Phair, Why Can't I? Which is a great song.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. So it is so important to my teenage years.

• 42:16Bill Simmons?

  And then Love is a Battlefield by Pat Benatar with a callback at the end. This is probably half the budget of the movie. Home run.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Beyond. It's so good.

• 42:26Bill Simmons?

  Great job, guys.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  It's incredible. The Liz, also the Liz Phair song is used twice, which also meant a lot to me. We can come back to that a little bit, but it's an amazing soundtrack. And as I was watching, I did wonder, like, how did they get all of these songs cleared? It's amazing.

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  I think they probably skimped out on the Alex Carlson character.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  I have a lot to say about him.

• 42:48Bill Simmons?

  When somebody making $15 an hour and used that money toward the music. I actually think, I think this was a choice. I think they thought, we're going to spend a few million dollars on the music because it's a huge part of this movie. And they didn't skimp on any part. Every song's a banger. Every song's famous. And then when you think about 2004, they do a good job of the nostalgia. It's like about 20 years after a lot of these songs hit, combined with some of the newer stuff. And it's honestly a tour de force. I can't believe how good they did with that.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  It also just feels like this era, I feel like this was more common. You watch a lot of movies in the late 90s, early aughts. There was just a lot of huge pop songs that were incorporated into the movies and even like referenced, the same way she references some lyrics from these songs. I feel like now, I don't know if like the record labels have gotten smarter and it's just too expensive to license, but you don't see that as much now.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Can I posit? That's like the MTV effect. I think that like music.

• 43:44Bill Simmons?

  Last era of MTV.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Music was seen as like a, like a, music videos were seen as such a powerful vehicle. And like, you know, they used to get like the movie edit with the song or whatever. Like for me, the definition of this is Secret Garden by Bruce Springsteen because that version with like the movie talking with Jerry Maguire on the radio.

• 44:02Bill Simmons?

  She loves you in her eyes.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  So this break is a breakup. Like that's in the middle of the song. And so I think that there was actually a lot more commercial value to be had for the music by being in the movies. And like, you could go back and buy the records and give it a second life when you couldn't just get the song on Spotify right away, essentially. So it actually was like smart for some of these songs.

• 44:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, my beloved A Lot Like Love has one of the best soundtracks of that entire decade. And it's more new stuff.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  But it's got that, what's that song though? I never fell in love before.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 44:38Bill Simmons?

  What a feeling.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  I forget the name of it.

• 44:40Bill Simmons?

  Whatever that one is.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  I know exactly what you mean.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  You know that song? They play, it's like three different points of the movie they play.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Right. Also happening at this time is the OC.

• 44:48Bill Simmons?

  Brighter than sunshine.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, also happening on this time on TV is the OC. And the OC had the power to like break a band. Like Death Cab became big.

• 44:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  The year before. So I think there was just like, in this exact moment, it was kind of short-lived. TV and movies could make a difference in music.

• 45:02Bill Simmons?

  That was a big thing for Josh Schwartz.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:05Bill Simmons?

  Because I think he always felt like 90210 never totally leaned into that. There was a couple, like they had the Sundays on once and.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 45:13Bill Simmons?

  But for the most part, never really used, like they had the Peach Pit After Dark for years and never leaned into the music part. And the OC that second year, he's, he had the Walkman, he had a whole bunch of.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  It was amazing. Yeah.

• 45:25Bill Simmons?

  Big ones. During like a really good time for music, too.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Remember when the Jim Blossoms were on the boat for Steve Sanders's birthday on the yacht?

• 45:31Bill Simmons?

  I remember.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  A great Claire episode if I recall correctly.

• 45:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, that had Steve Sanders's 21st birthday when he was 38 in real life. One of the, one of the great moments ever. Steve, can't wait for 21. He's got like a receding hairline.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  So good.

• 45:46Bill Simmons?

  This movie was written by Kathy Jespa and Josh Goldsmith and directed by Gary Winnick, who's no longer with us. $37 million budget made $96 million. Roger Ebert, not impressed, two stars. He said Jennifer Garner is indeed a charmer, but she's the victim of a charmless treatment in Thirteen Going on Thirty. I gotta, I gotta say Raj made some decent points.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Okay, let's hear him.

• 46:11Bill Simmons?

  He couldn't buy the world of the magazine office was one of his big things. He didn't understand why high-powered professionals don't seem to notice they're dealing with a 13-year-old mind. Jenna's bright idea to redesign the magazine is so spectacularly bad that it's accepted. And there are so many emotional and sexual puzzles to dap dance around. This should have been a musical. He liked Garner. I think that's why I got two stars out of him. Wesley Morris.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:37Bill Simmons?

  A young whipper snapper at this point for the Boston Globe writes, "A contagious but dopey first-star vehicle for TV's Jennifer Garner. The movie is tailor-made for women who openly lust for dream houses, dream jobs, and dream hubbies. Sounds like Juliet. Does the movie's heroin get what she wants? And do you feel good about it? Yes, and sort of."

• 46:58Speaker 01

  That is so Wesley. That is just the most Wesley review.

• 47:01Bill Simmons?

  If we asked Wesley now, he would say this is one of his favorite movies of the last 25 years.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  Because I think that's what this, this is, he would love this movie. Like he would have been on this podcast if we asked him.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  So definitely, yeah. Maybe next time we do it. I think that review also like, it is dopey, but that's one of the reasons why it's fun. Like movies and things can be dopey and you can love them. Like there's actually a lot of like joy in that and it doesn't have to be serious and like you can just have fun with it. And the movie encourages you to just go with it and be like, you know, Roger Ebert made some great points about the logic. That is correct. Doesn't really exactly make sense, but that's just part of the genre. And you just sort of accept it as like table setting and move forward. I did agree with his point about the office in particular. I was like, is this the set from Working Girl? It looks very similar to like when they walk in and everything. It's like just so generic. It doesn't like draw you into that world, but that's okay. The magazine stuff isn't exactly nailed, but that's fine.

• 47:57Bill Simmons?

  What was the Netflix rom-com when they basically was built after Grantland? Set it up?

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:03Bill Simmons?

  When they had their version of Grantland and it was like the nicest office possible?

• 48:08Speaker 01

  It was so funny.

• 48:08Bill Simmons?

  Not like our office at all.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  It was very airy. Len Powell had like beautiful light on him.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  That movie's pretty good.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:14Bill Simmons?

  Thanks, Craig. They openly admitted they based it on Grantland. I like that movie too. But that, that's a classic movie where you just never know. If your two lead actors have chemistry, it can go a long way.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  And one of them has really taken off and one is Zoe Deutsch.

• 48:32Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Zoe Deutsch, probably like in the last 10 years, has probably made more rom-coms that people have heard of than any other actress, right?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:40Bill Simmons?

  At least nine.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  I think all on the strength of Set it Up. Like everyone's just like, wait, because that was a big hit. Like that was sort of a standout for Netflix. Uh, like it was like 10 years ago already. And I think like looking for the next one. I mean, you know, Netflix hovers over all the conversations of rom-coms because there are so many. And I like to watch all of them. Always Be My Maybe with Ali Wong is really good. Like some of them are great. And, but it's just sort of like, you know, and Amazon's doing a bunch of TV shows now too. Like they have seized.

• 49:08Bill Simmons?

  They're doing the more YA stuff.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, the tropes. We haven't even talked about Sterling Point, but they've seized all of the tropes of these movies. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But like it just, I support the strategy of like just throwing out a million and seeing what lands because they're all kind of fun. And once in a while they are great. Like, did you ever watch Marry Me on Peacock with J Lo and Owen Wilson?

• 49:31Bill Simmons?

  Who are you talking to?

• 49:34Speaker 01

  I love that movie. Am I the only one? Maybe, but like I'll watch all of them and like sometimes I sick.

• 49:38Bill Simmons?

  Now, there's another person who loved that movie. My wife, Carrie Simmons. That's how I watched it. She watched it multiple times.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  The music in it? J Lo is really good at singing in that movie. Her songs are great. So.

• 49:49Bill Simmons?

  Not only did she really like it, she was like, J Lo's back.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I felt the same way.

• 49:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Netflix, Netflix in the last eight, nine years, because their algorithm was obviously telling them people love rom coms and horror movies. And they just started cranking them out. And they're hit or miss, especially the rom coms. There's also like, there's the Hallmark rom coms, like the holiday era ones.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like.

• 50:14Bill Simmons?

  There's a bunch of them now.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  And then there's like Letters to Isabel. Yeah, like things like that, but I watch all of them. And then there's like that Zoe Saldana show on Netflix that was pretty popular too, like. I forgot the name of it. I'll look it up in a second, but you know, these are, these are all like feel good moments. And sometimes they're good and sometimes they're like actually high quality and sometimes they're not, but like I'm here for all of it. I said, it's a good strategy.

• 50:38Bill Simmons?

  You know what your algorithm probably likes?

• 50:40Speaker 01

  What?

• 50:40Bill Simmons?

  Is, is like these teen rom commie type movies, but somebody's either dying of cancer or have already died. And it's like, I have to bring my friend's ashes to every, it feels like they've done every variation of those, right?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 50:54Bill Simmons?

  My best friend from when I was growing up, she's either about to die or she already died, or she's coming back. Or she dies during the movie, or, or it's, it's men and it's like the high school quarterback and he loses the, they love those. Some sort of tragedy early.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  It's kind of like the my girlification of teen movies, because like that, it's very similar, uh, when Macaulay Culkin dies. And The Fall of My Stars was huge. I loved that movie. It was a young Shailene Woodley, and that's, that's a cancer movie. But yeah, that, that had a whole year.

• 51:26Bill Simmons?

  She showed her head for that one.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Two thousand nine, two thousand ten. I know. She doesn't, she gets after what she wants, I guess. That's what we've learned recently.

• 51:34Bill Simmons?

  Shailene is in the Unabomber movie.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  You know.

• 51:37Bill Simmons?

  Take down the Unabomber. Um, and it's not Aaron Rodgers. It's the actual Unabomber.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Ted, Ted K. Yeah, I think about him often. The Unabomber, I learned, you know, you learn about like something really bad at a young age and you never forget it. So that's the Unabomber for me.

• 51:51Bill Simmons?

  I mean, even the Wolf Arrow SNL sketches couldn't.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't try to help him not be creepy. Uh, all right. Most rewatchable scene.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:00Bill Simmons?

  Have a bunch of them, including, we'll start with the big party at Jenna's, where the six chicks show up.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:06Bill Simmons?

  One of the great gimmicks. Did you have a six chicks in high school or a version of that or no?

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Yes. So when I was in high school, there was a group that called themselves the A squad. And I was not in it. I was on, I was in the B team. So yes, the six chicks, A squad, it's all the same.

• 52:23Bill Simmons?

  Because you're smart, you got along with them. You got along with everybody.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:27Bill Simmons?

  The A squad, that's so snotty. Like who does that?

• 52:31Speaker 01

  It's pretty incredible. It's like, it's like so on the nose that it's like funny to tell people about, but yes, it was real at the Bronx High School of Science.

• 52:40Bill Simmons?

  When I was in college, they, the, the people that were like that, we would derisively call them BPs for beautiful people. And then some of them actually like kind of owned it and were like, we're the BPs. And it's like, no, no, we're making fun of the fact that, yeah.

• 52:57Bill Simmons?

  Jenna being mean to Beaver hurts my feelings. Seven Minutes of Heaven, I think has been banned in 50 states now in two thousand twenty six. Back then made sense. Um, and she wants to be thirty and flirty and thriving. I think I was gonna do this, but it's a J best. I'll do it now. Tom Tom becoming Judy Greer, one of the best teen to adult casting of two different people that I can remember.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Interesting. You know, Judy Greer doesn't agree with that. Like, I guess people brought that up with her frequently and she was like.

• 53:27Bill Simmons?

  I think that girl looks like her. You don't think so?

• 53:29Speaker 01

  No, I, I do. Judy Greer would like never acknowledged it, which is sort of funny.

• 53:33Bill Simmons?

  Oh, maybe she doesn't like it.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  I think the Jennifer Garner teen as well looks just like her. I thought she's great. Perfect casting.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  I think she looks like Hillary Swank, that young woman, but.

• 53:42Bill Simmons?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  That's all I can say.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  It's not bad.

• 53:45Bill Simmons?

  I respectfully disagree.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Oh, it's pretty good. I mean, on the scale of like, you can be way off with stuff like that. I thought it was pretty solid.

• 53:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, especially they set up the nose job thing later. So I guess, yeah, I guess.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but all I saw was Hillary Swank and that just was.

• 53:59Bill Simmons?

  Well, we almost saw Hillary Swank in this movie. She was in the casting with ifs.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 54:04Bill Simmons?

  Next one is Jenna wakes up and she's thirty. The cell phone thing is really funny. It's like the perfect time in oh four to be like, what's that noise? Not knowing what a cell phone is.

• 54:17Bill Simmons?

  The, the whole like checking out her body, waking up with the hockey player. And then Lucy, I'm Jenna Rink, big time magazine editor. Um, they go into the office. That whole part's great.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  It's great. Yes. I, I love that scene. I think that's also like when Jenna, it's almost like Jennifer Garner's like mission statement. She nails the physical aspect of it and the facial expression so well. I think it recalls Tom Hanks in Big a lot. Like you, it's impossible to not think about when he first wakes up too. And it's kind of like reassuring, like, oh, she can do this movie. Like it's gonna be good.

• 54:49Bill Simmons?

  By the way, she looks great.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  She's beautiful. I think she still looks great.

• 54:53Bill Simmons?

  Great outfit.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. That, and gets into the office for the Eminem, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, clean or peanut? Has no idea Eminem is.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  That was so funny.

• 55:04Bill Simmons?

  Next thing, she goes see Ruffalo.

• 55:07Bill Simmons?

  When he's like, doing his ruffalo out of the cider's mouth. We're not friends anymore, Jenna.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:13Bill Simmons?

  That whole part's really interesting how I, I, I like, these are, these are where you really have to suspend belief with movies like this because.

• 55:21Bill Simmons?

  Your reaction to this in real life would be you've taken fentanyl.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Well, he said that. Did you go into K? Did you go into K-hole? He said that's her.

• 55:30Bill Simmons?

  And then he did mushrooms. Like this woman's lost her mind. Call the police.

• 55:35Bill Simmons?

  She's like, I used to be thirteen and now I'm here. It's like, what's going on? What drugs did you do? But he's, doesn't have that reaction.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like covered in one, one line. She's like, I can't remember anything that happened. So he just like lets her start looking at materials and like, doesn't kick her out. I guess you're supposed to think that he's attracted to her right away. So he left her.

• 55:51Bill Simmons?

  He's like, she might have amnesia and she looks fucking hot. I'm gonna have to play this out and see where it goes. Then we get a dress up montage with Whitney Houston music, heading into the elevator convo with thirteen year old. But this movie. You know, this is like where you're just following the rom com, you know, you're following the footsteps of the giants. And one of them is you have to have a dress up montage scene. So it was, it was Whitney Houston. It was supposed to be Lips Like Sugar. By Echo and the Bunny Man, which would have been great, but they couldn't get the, the licensing for it. Which is crazy to me because they got fifteen songs and spent millions of dollars, but somehow Echo and the Bunny Man were like, nope.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  We can't do it.

• 56:29Bill Simmons?

  They should take the money. That would have been amazing for them.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  They're like, I hate Alias. No, thank you.

• 56:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a show's terrible.

• 56:36Bill Simmons?

  Jenna saves the party with Thriller, which is now an iconic rom com scene. And an iconic dress.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  Yes, the dresses, I think.

• 56:45Bill Simmons?

  So go, you take the floor. Just go.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  The dress is incredible. It is a modified Versace dress from like the year before.

• 56:53Bill Simmons?

  It's the green dress for the people who don't remember.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Yes, it's like short. It's so funny that you say that. I'm like, how can people not know what I'm talking about?

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  The dress has such a long life. I think it's like a Halloween costume every year. I think it's something people think about when they turn thirty. And it has like this silhouette that moves really well when she's doing the dance. The funny thing about the dance, I just don't think she's very good at it. Like she's much better when she does Love is a Battlefield, dancing on the bed later in the movie, but she looks like awkward and stiff and.

• 57:19Bill Simmons?

  It gets better as the song goes along, but the first minute of it is really bad. And then Ruffalo is just putting a stamp on it for two minutes.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  It's like he's like hurt himself and he's like dragging his foot along.

• 57:30Bill Simmons?

  Gollum comes in and he's banging it out though.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Gollum is ready to party.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  But the, yeah, the, the dress is amazing. And of course it's like punctuated by her grabbing her boobs and saying, cause I have these incredible boobs to fill it out. Like.

• 57:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  It's such a gleeful moment. And I think that like, you know, a lot of people, particularly women can relate to like putting on something that makes you feel so good. That you're just like, wanna live in the moment to experience like that greatness. And it's, it's very sweet. It's like. It is literally aspirational, which is why it works so well. It's like, you want to find a dress like that, that's like, fits you perfectly, that makes you feel like a million bucks and it's, it just works.

• 58:06Bill Simmons?

  Craig, does Michael Jackson have too much baggage now where a scene like this and people busting out Thriller would be more complicated? Or do people not care from your generation?

• 58:15Speaker 03

  I don't think it's a Michael Jackson problem. I, the, to me, the craziest part was that like, is, was the song, was the dance really so popular that?

• 58:24Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  In two thousand and four, you could expect that anyone in a room knew the entire dance?

• 58:30Bill Simmons?

  Kinda, yes.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 58:32Bill Simmons?

  Because the video was like the, probably the biggest video of all time and everybody imitated it. So.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  Cause I loved, I, I love that it wasn't that Mark Ruffalo didn't know the dance and was embarrassed. He's like, well, obviously I know the dance. It's Thriller, but I don't want to do it. I just love that anyone at this party, if you pointed at them, they were like, yeah, I know the Thriller dance from beginning to end.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 58:51Bill Simmons?

  It added up for me.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Isn't that kind of back with TikTok dances? Like.

• 58:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  I spent a long time watching everyone doing that baby doll Jamie Miller dance last night. And I was just like, how does everyone know this? This song sticks.

• 59:03Speaker 03

  It's just funny. It was like a two minute routine and everybody knew it. And I was like, man, did, did people really know the whole Thriller dance?

• 59:08Bill Simmons?

  Man, sometimes that happens. Uh, Wesley didn't like it. Wesley wrote, shout out, Wesley's listening to this, having a great time right now. Watching Garner and the rest of the cast earnestly dance like ghouls. I cringe the way I might have had this happen at a party I was actually attending. The amateurness isn't cute. It's scary.

• 59:32Bill Simmons?

  Wesley, not a fan.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Scary. Well, that's

• 59:35Bill Simmons?

  Amateurishness.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  That's really, I love when Wesley makes up a word or like, you're like, is that really a word?

• 59:40Bill Simmons?

  He made that word up. That's not a word.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  For sure. But like, that's another hallmark of Wesley's wonderful writing. Um, I, I think this reminded me of like every bar mitzvah I've been to. And since she's supposed to be 13, it totally tracked. I was like, yeah.

• 59:52Bill Simmons?

  Every bar mitzvah I've been to, cause I went to a bunch as a kid and then way more when my kids had friends that had bar mitzvahs. I've somehow been in like 30 bar mitzvahs.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's sort of like everyone knowing the cha-cha slide. I, I, it tracks. I thought it was, you know, it's, it's a famous scene. Also, there is something like the mechanics of Michael Jackson are obviously like, he defies mechanics or he did. And so then like seeing all these people like, just like get up into the party and, and doing it is hilarious. I love when Arlene joins the secretary. That's my favorite moment. She's like so happy to be out there. So.

• 1:00:22Bill Simmons?

  Arlene's coming up later. I like Arlene as well. We have the Liz Phair montage into Razzles into the Brooklyn Bridge with them and whatever, throwing that in. That's, seems like a spot movies will go to.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Oh, on the side of the East River?

• 1:00:38Bill Simmons?

  On the side with that shot, Saturday Night Fever was in there. 50 years of people shooting like right around in that area. Cause it's a good shot of the bridge in the background.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  What about Manhattan? I mean, that's the black and white shot. I mean, that's iconic.

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Love is a Battlefield with the, uh, with the nice version of the six chicks when she's explaining to the 13 year old. I actually like, I, you, I could have gotten one more scene with her just hanging with the 13 year old girls and dispensing advice. But that was a really fun part. All right. Jen, uh, two more.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:09Bill Simmons?

  Jenna's class of 2004 pitch for the new magazine. Bravo! Bravo!

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  That's most rewatchable for you? I've got some notes. I wanted to bring that up later.

• 1:01:20Bill Simmons?

  No, it's rewatchable because it's probably the worst publishing idea of all time. I think you're immediately, this goes beyond nitpicks. This is, you're just immediately fired. People are like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  The materials.

• 1:01:33Bill Simmons?

  It's supposed to be a glossy magazine that people aspire to. We're going to give them a high school yearbook? You're fired.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  It didn't even look well done. The materials she presented were so poor. If I were Maddie, I'd be like, please don't include my work. I don't want to be associated. You do not have the right to use my.

• 1:01:49Bill Simmons?

  Gollum's like, who is this photographer? It's like, these are fucking basic iPhone photos.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  It kind of looked like, um, if like a five year old was trying to make their own J. Crew catalog, this is what they would have ended up with.

• 1:02:01Bill Simmons?

  It was a 13 year old.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  But even worse, like someone with no skills. It's so bad.

• 1:02:07Bill Simmons?

  And the irony is that Lucy's idea of like heroin chic. I was like, all right, this is pretty good.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Bill Simmons?

  I think this would work. Coming out of the music scene in New York in 04 and just kind of where things were going in general. I kind of liked it.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  I know why she became editor in chief of Sparkle. Good idea.

• 1:02:21Bill Simmons?

  Craig, which idea did you like more Jenna's or Lucy's for the magazine redesign?

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  I did immediately turn to Liz and I was like, you know, Lucy's idea is way better than Jenna's, right? Fashion suicide would play. Liz was upset. She loves this movie. She, she doesn't like to hear any criticisms.

• 1:02:36Bill Simmons?

  Liz, Liz loved the happiness, celebration.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:02:41Bill Simmons?

  Nostalgia. Wow. Is it a bad idea?

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Liz loves Gollum.

• 1:02:46Bill Simmons?

  My last one is just Jenna and Lucy have it out. And Jenna finds out that evil Jenna, who she was before she kind of woke up, was actually undermining Sparkle every month. Judy Greer's lights out in this scene.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Really good. Yeah.

• 1:03:01Bill Simmons?

  I might've told him something else too, but I just can't remember.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Are we supposed to think that she did and it got cut from the movie? Because later on Jenna, when she shows up at Mark Ruffalo's house to stop the wedding, like it's my best friend's wedding, she says, well, I guess it is. She says, um, I don't know what she told you, but it's not true. So like, are you supposed to think there was something else? I think, I think so, but.

• 1:03:28Bill Simmons?

  I did not put the wedding scene in that. I, I didn't think that, I thought that scene could have been better. I do have some thoughts about it later, but those were all my rewatchable scenes. So what you're, oh, I skipped one accidentally. After Thriller, the, uh, the sad Vienna scene.

• 1:03:45Bill Simmons?

  What a classic.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  I'm saving Vienna for later. I mean.

• 1:03:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I, I have a part for it later too. Here's what Billy Joel said though about Vienna.

• 1:03:54Bill Simmons?

  Actually I'll save this part too. All right. We'll save Vienna. I have a whole separate part for this.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it deserves it. It's Vienna.

• 1:04:01Bill Simmons?

  What, uh, what do you have for your most rewatchable scene? I can't wait.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  My most rewatchable scene is the first scene when she wakes up in the apartment. The umbrella gag is really important to me when she like sticks it so she doesn't see his penis anymore. Or in underwear, like, and, and all the physical comedy. I just like feel proud as a Jennifer Garner fan in that moment. And it's just very funny. It's really well done. And then, um, this, like the slip that she's wearing and then putting on the jacket is so famous that it's like, and that even more than the dress for me, that's like the defining look of the movie. So it's definitely that.

• 1:04:38Bill Simmons?

  I think you're right. I think basically from the closet all the way through when she gets to work, the first 25 minutes of this movie are excellent.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're really good. Really, really good.

• 1:04:50Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 2004 thing about this movie?

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  So many.

• 1:04:54Bill Simmons?

  Eminem's on the phone. He wants a decision now.

• 1:04:58Bill Simmons?

  That slip dress is a little 1997. Wrote that one down. Being surprised by a cell phone ring. What else do you have?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  I have like in the, when she first gets to work, you can see some of the like previous issues of both Sparkle and Poise. And the, the cover stars also include Courtney Cox and Marisa Tomei.

• 1:05:19Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Those were pretty good. I thought Courtney Cox in particular, very 2004. Um, there's the, and Jenna's, uh, office wall. She has a picture of her with like a lot of people, like the Madonna signed one. She has a picture of her and Rudy Giuliani. So it was very, very funny. Um, I had the flip phone.

• 1:05:35Bill Simmons?

  Back when it was okay to have a picture of Rudy Giuliani.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  It wasn't like for humor or like having to ask a lot of questions. It was just like, this was the mayor during nine 11.

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Um, uh, the flip phone was a big one for me too. It's like, especially because I think, uh, colored phones, like a colored screen came in like 2002, 2003. So they're really kind of coming into their own. And then for me, the repeated use of Liz Phair is why can't I? I mean, that is an early aughts song and to use it two times, it's like, it wasn't a deep cut at the time. It was just Liz Phair. And so I don't think that resonates in the same way. And it really brought me back.

• 1:06:11Bill Simmons?

  My only other one, this was my winner. Garner's performance earned her nominations from both the MTV Movie Awards and the Teen Choice Awards. It's like there was a three year vortex where that could have happened. But I think you're right with, uh, Liz Phair. The Floyd Gondoli butter in my ass award and lollipops in my mouth.

• 1:06:30Bill Simmons?

  Award for something I just enjoy. Uh, I'll go first.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:35Bill Simmons?

  I love rom com bitches.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  You like a bitchy lady.

• 1:06:40Bill Simmons?

  There's just a certain level it goes to, and it's never like really, really like catastrophically mean, but more mean where you're like, ooh. And we all know people who are probably watered down versions of the rom com bitches. You know, there's always somebody at work or somebody that, you know, your, your friend is friends with, or your wife or girlfriend's friends with, but there's variations of them and you can see the seeds. So when I see Lucy, it's like, oh, I know, I know Lucy's, but rom com bitches are great.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  They are, cause they have to turn it up a little bit. It can't just be like subtle. They have to be really clearly. Yeah. It's great. I think Sigourney Weaver is a really good example of that in, um, Working Girl.

• 1:07:24Bill Simmons?

  Great example.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  She's like a great character. And like, if that was actually your boss, you would want to die. Um.

• 1:07:29Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a good one. I mean, Judy Greer in this movie is great. And like, she's unassailable. She really like makes it a better movie. So I get it. It's a great one.

• 1:07:37Bill Simmons?

  Chance said she might've been on the right side of history too. Evil Jenna is just undermining the entire magazine to Sparkle?

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Oh, I do also think that like, you can't understand what a bad person Jenna was without Lucy. Cause like, if they're best friends and like calling them the dynamic duo at the beginning, clearly like she has become a Lucy.

• 1:07:57Bill Simmons?

  And so Lucy's Darth Vader, basically. She sucks her to the dark side from the moment, the eighth grade birthday party.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  It's true. Turning 13 is such a big deal. I mean.

• 1:08:06Bill Simmons?

  Brings her into the six chicks, like just changes her life for the worse.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Don't you think Jenna Rink probably would have had a bar mitzvah? Just throwing it out there. Living in New Jersey. She seems like a Jewish.

• 1:08:16Bill Simmons?

  So you think Jenna Rink definitely Jewish?

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  I think so. It just occurred to me right now. Um.

• 1:08:22Bill Simmons?

  Jenna Rink. Not positive that's a Jewish name though.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Well, as a Jew, I think it is.

• 1:08:28Bill Simmons?

  You're more qualified to rule on this than me. I'm just, I'm just here as your supporting cabinet.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just think about it. You know, people, you know, people can let it snow.

• 1:08:37Bill Simmons?

  Did the parents seem Jewish enough to you?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Kathy Baker? I don't think so. No. But I do love Kathy Baker. Did you watch Picket Fences?

• 1:08:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, she was the hooker in Street Smart. That's where I knew Kathy Baker.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  What, what's going on with the pilot of you and Adam Friedland doing Jewish stuff? Have you, have we filmed that yet or no?

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Still just in our text messages. We have, we haven't gotten there yet, but, uh, but let's discuss it.

• 1:08:59Bill Simmons?

  We do an eight episode test drive.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  I'm interested. Um.

• 1:09:03Bill Simmons?

  He's available.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  He's nearby. We're both in New York. Um, okay. The thing that I just like, Jennifer Garner's hairstyles are so funny in this movie. They do so much for the character and like chopsticks in the hair. I don't think that would be like acceptable in a movie in this, this era, like after Gwen Stefani. But it's so funny. And the way that like they show her character, like evolving from having just woken up to like realizing she's a bad person with like the very like elaborate hairstyles. So it just being down and like no makeup on is so, is so well done. It's also just so like feminine. It adds a real touch of like Jennifer Garner's like feeling all over the movie. And I just like, love it. When I, I laughed myself when I watch it.

• 1:09:51Bill Simmons?

  We'll take one more break and then we're going to go to What's Aged the Best. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Finding a decent piece of clothing can be a lot harder than finding a decent movie, but that was before Quince. Quince has staple pieces made from premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It's the perfect place to start building a cozy fall outfit without any absurd markups. For instance, I love a good vest. They have a lightweight, down, packable puffer vest, which is an easy fall layer, although nobody loves layers more than Chris Ryan. You can throw it over a sweater, long sleeve, whenever you want to make an outfit feel a little more seasonal, simple, classic, one of those pieces that works with pretty much everything that's already in your closet.

• 1:10:36Bill Simmons?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order, 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it's a rewatchables podcast. They would appreciate that. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. The Home Depot has everything you need to launch your holiday season in style. Upgrade your yard with this year's hottest holiday decor, including the showstopping towering Santa. Oh, I like that one. And his impressive reindeer, both 8.5 feet and both designed with incredible detail that stands out day or night. When you want decor that delivers impact, The Home Depot has it.

• 1:11:17Bill Simmons?

  Make your home Santa's favorite stop with the holiday decor you want, all waiting for you at The Home Depot.

• 1:11:25Bill Simmons?

  What's Aged the Best? Obviously, unquestionably, it is all of the J-Lo covers in a movie with Jennifer Garner, right as J-Lo is about to break up with Ben Affleck, who Jennifer Garner is about to start dating.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  It's incredible.

• 1:11:40Bill Simmons?

  It's the whole movie. J-Lo is just, there's one part near the end where she's in front, looking good outside with a J-Lo cover in the back, and it's like, I'm going to go get Ben Affleck now. You can do a supercut of her just ending up with Ben Affleck just through scenes of this movie.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  It is so funny because in the movie, which came out in the spring of 2004, she, in like the end, one of the final like montage scenes, she goes to the newsstand and she takes down all the covers of Sparkle. There's three of them that are like being held with a binder clip, and J-Lo's on the cover, and then she hides them. And like, you just couldn't script that better because then, five months later, at game one of the World Series, Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck make their debut at the Boston Red Sox.

• 1:12:22Bill Simmons?

  As did I. We were all in Fenway Park together, 11 and 9 over the Cardinals.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  And then it's just, it's crazy. Like, yeah, you gotta discuss that, you know? It's just the game one.

• 1:12:34Bill Simmons?

  As you know, I love Affleck and I'll fight for Affleck and Damon forever.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:12:39Bill Simmons?

  Very important next girlfriend choice. Because the J-Lo thing did not go over great with the fanbase being that she was from the Bronx.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Right. That's true.

• 1:12:51Bill Simmons?

  And was unabashedly a Yankee fan, and that was just really weird. So then they break up. He shows up symbolically, game one, 04 World Series, with his new girlfriend, Jennifer Garner, as a 100% approval rating, just a win all the way around. It was like, we've got him back. He's back in the fold, Ben Affleck. Come back to us.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  It's kind of like a Nick Hornby moment. That's the kind of thing that'd be in a Nick Hornby book, where it's like, he's back by showing up at his favorite stadium with a girlfriend you can all approve of.

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  I wanted to walk over to him during the game and go, Ben, it's not your fault. It's not your fault.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  And just give him a big hug.

• 1:13:29Bill Simmons?

  It's not your fault. It's not your fault. Julie is not your fault. More What's Aged the Best, The Six Chicks, just as a gimmick and just a group of Mean Girls in a rom-com, has a 100% success rate. I don't think it's ever not worked.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, because everyone can relate to that. Like, everyone knows that group from some point in their life. And also, having a really good name is important. So Six Chicks is great, and especially because it allows Maddie to say, you can't be in it. There's only six of them. Like, it's just, it works out really well.

• 1:14:01Bill Simmons?

  They show up with shitty looks on their face. They're all kind of dressed the same. They have the different looks. There's always one tall one in the back. And then, Craig, buckle up, because you probably didn't research this.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  Oh, you're gonna say, you're gonna say Brie Larson?

• 1:14:14Bill Simmons?

  Brie Larson. He did research it.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  I just, I recognized her.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Ashley Benson.

• 1:14:20Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  She's also there.

• 1:14:21Bill Simmons?

  Ashley Benson from Pretty Little Liars, a show I did not watch. But Brie Larson, I am familiar with her career.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:14:26Bill Simmons?

  She's, she's on the far right, has a crappy look on her face. And then, in the yearbook photos, when Jenna has ascended as a six chick, it seems like Brie Larson got bumped out. So I don't know. What do you think the, what do you think the mechanics of that one was, Juliet?

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Maybe like where you get to stand in the row is like how close you are to the center of power, and she was obviously on the periphery, so she got pushed out.

• 1:14:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and maybe a little too cute for Tom Tom. Tom Tom had to, became a zero-sum game. Had to get her out.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, great point.

• 1:14:55Bill Simmons?

  Get Jenna in there.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  We also get the Plastics a week later. Mean Girls came out a week after this one. So you have the Six Chicks and then the Plastics, seven days apart.

• 1:15:04Bill Simmons?

  You know, I'm glad you brought that up, Craig. I think that hurt this movie a little bit because Mean Girls was such a good high school movie, and it was right after, and it became more of a thing. And I don't think it gave 13 Going on 30 the stage, the runway that it needed. You know what I mean? More What's Aged the Best for me.

• 1:15:26Bill Simmons?

  I thought the mom-daughter casting of Kathy Baker with the 13-year-old who becomes Jennifer Garner was really good. Like, they actually like looked like they were mother and daughter. And I like the mom in general. I like the, I know I made a lot of mistakes, but I don't regret making any of them. Good high school yearbook quote. I thought the mom was just great in this movie. Nice, even keel. The next-door neighbor gimmick in rom-coms, I just enjoy in general. When, when somebody like, anyway. Ariana Grande, Thank You Next.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:03Bill Simmons?

  I'm less familiar with this one.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:16:06Bill Simmons?

  But apparently, big homage in that video to this movie.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  The funny thing is, there's also a big homage to Mean Girls in that video and a couple other movies. But yes, she has, she's carrying the dream house in that video, and it's a great video and a great song.

• 1:16:21Bill Simmons?

  Billy Joel, I have as a What's Aged the Best.

• 1:16:25Bill Simmons?

  This is always fun when movies do this. As Jenna softens during the movie, the production team adjusted her wardrobe and gave her warmer colors, but Lucy becomes ruthless and her fashion sense goes the other way and goes darker. It's always like subtle shit I would never think of as a watching movie.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  The wardrobe in this movie is really, really well done, and Jennifer Garner has worked with the costume designer like 10 times since this movie.

• 1:16:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  Her name's Suzie.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  The green thriller dress we mentioned, ended up in a costume warehouse, and Garner said, she always gets asked where it is. Apparently it was on Sex and the City on an extra during a scene in a theater, and that's the last time it's been seen.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  It looked pretty different on that extra. I saw the scene, and it doesn't have like the cutout. It doesn't have the cutout, and it's just like, you wouldn't realize it was the same. It's actually like someone watching really closely must have pointed it out because it doesn't, doesn't even feel like the same dress.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  I have three more quick ones, and I'll save my last one for last, and then we'll go to you. Billy Joel, I think in the mid 2000s on, has aged incredibly.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Bill Simmons?

  1987 mixtapes was right around the first era of mixtapes. I think they did a good job with that. And then, Matt's Girlfriend.

• 1:17:45Bill Simmons?

  Really attractive, anchorwoman, moving to Chicago. I gotta say, sounds like a dream girlfriend. I don't know what Matt was thinking.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Well, she denigrated.

• 1:17:54Bill Simmons?

  It's fine.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  She denigrated commuter couple. I've never heard of that before. Commuter couple in the first year of marriage. I, it's not a term I knew, but I like it. I'm gonna start using it. She denigrated his work when she said you could take pictures of vitamin bottles from Chicago. So that wasn't so nice.

• 1:18:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that wasn't nice, I guess. She was really attractive.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was, she was great. Also, Chicago, a great city, you know, I support it. I could see him fitting in in Chicago.

• 1:18:19Bill Simmons?

  All right, I have one more, but you go. What do you have for What's Aged the Best?

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  Okay, I have a few. The topic of wardrobe, Mark Ruffalo. Like, everywhere he dresses is like so popular now, and also like kind of never went out of style for men, and he's wearing like the Adidas, the CBGB shirt, but his pants fit. Like, everything about his style really works. I also noticed he has like a pendant light over his dining room table in his apartment. That's also still very in, so I was impressed by that. I think that they nailed luxury really well, like at the beginning, when the guy at Coys turns to Jenna and goes, two words, St. Bart's. Like, St. Bart's is still aspirational and like still where someone like that would want to go.

• 1:18:59Bill Simmons?

  Right now, yeah, that's a good one.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  That's really, also at the end, Jenna's parents were like, it was something with the Sandy Sidro Ranch, and her dad's like, Sandy Syndrome. And I'm like, yes.

• 1:19:09Bill Simmons?

  Very popular.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  That remains quite luxurious. So like, I think those have lasted, and of course, I noted them. I think that New York City, like they chose shots of New York that have not aged. Like, I was looking at the various addresses, like it's like 444 Madison, it's 61 Fifth. Like, those all look as good as they did then now, and like won't change because they're like landmark buildings. And they also didn't pick any part of New York that felt gimmicky. Like, for example, in Bag, FBO Schwarz is gone. They also, it's right after 9/11, but they didn't even like touch anywhere too far downtown. They have a scene on the street in Tribeca that like looked like it could have been a Whit Stillman movie, or it could be today. Like, it just, they nailed New York, and

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  they had a very limited time there, but they just picked really good exteriors, and it worked really well.

• 1:19:59Bill Simmons?

  So I had that as my Dennis Thieves, Benihana Award for scene-stealing location. Happy, sunny, crime-free.

• 1:20:07Bill Simmons?

  9/11 never happened in New York.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:20:09Bill Simmons?

  It's, and this is filmed two, you know, a year and a half after 9/11. It never acknowledges it. It just moves forward and it's like, look how great New York is.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  I think it's one of the reasons this movie's sustained.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Definitely. It's like sunny. It makes you feel good, like you said.

• 1:20:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Um, I also just think like the, you mentioned it, but the pink slip dress is so like, so, so good. People would wear that now.

• 1:20:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  That's my list.

• 1:20:32Bill Simmons?

  My last one, as you know, I love real estate. 615th Ave, 7th C, Greenwich Village. Did some recon on it. Uh, probably 55K a month to rent from there now.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Definitely. Yes.

• 1:20:46Bill Simmons?

  Really nice. Uh, there's a couple of good wide shots. If you Google, it's a 10-story building. Perfect location in Greenwich Village and it's where like celebrities are living in that place.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  I was just walking around there last week, like very close to there and I saw Alec Baldwin on the street. So yes, they are. Um, he and Hilaria were just leaving breakfast.

• 1:21:05Bill Simmons?

  Hmm. Hilaria. How's she, how's she doing? Was she good?

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  She seemed like she was thriving. Her hair was like very voluminous.

• 1:21:13Bill Simmons?

  Good update. Great shot, Gordo Award for most cinematic shot. Uh, that shot of the Brooklyn Bridge in the background that so many people have gone for, but um, and that, that uh, I don't know. I've just seen it many times. It always works for me.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great. They kind of do both sides. The beginning, they're eating the Razzles, like walking, and that's on the Manhattan side. And then when they go to the playground, that's on the Brooklyn side. And it looks great both times. It's, it's very beautiful.

• 1:21:39Bill Simmons?

  Chess Rock World Brocklanders Award for best character name. It's gotta be the six chicks.

• 1:21:42Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:21:43Bill Simmons?

  What did you have?

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Well, I just thought we needed to talk about Matt Flamhouse. That's like an awful weird name. And it's so awful and weird, like that it comes good. Yes. And I'm like, okay, sure. Yeah. I could see that being like a dorky guy. It doesn't fit for Mark Ruffalo, but it fits for like the child actor. So.

• 1:21:59Bill Simmons?

  Handsome, handsome guy with a dorky name.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  Signifying that he might've been a dork way back when.

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  And just like a not a name you'd wanna say. Like if you were 13 and you're talking about your boyfriend, like your mom would be like Flamhouse? Like what kind of name is that? So it's not, it's just a funny, funny choice.

• 1:22:15Bill Simmons?

  Kate Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food or drink. Obviously Razzles.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I think throwing the shrimp at the party. It's a really good touch and really funny.

• 1:22:23Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Uh, that worked better for me.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for best needle drop. So, and I'm writing this down as I'm watching the movie. It's like, go, go's head over heels. We get this twice. That's gotta be the winner. No, it's definitely thriller. Iconic movie scene. Then Vienna kicks in. It's like, oh, it's Vienna. That's our winner. Yeah.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  It's so, it's so amazing. It's such an incredible song and it use it, it's like, I can't think of many other movies that use Billy Joel's voice over like, kind of like a sad montage that way. It's so well done. It's, it's like kind of beautiful. Also includes a train scene. Who doesn't love a train scene?

• 1:23:01Bill Simmons?

  Train scenes work 100% of the time.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:04Bill Simmons?

  Great shot of the character looking sadly out the window. Things are moving. Everyone can identify with it. Uh, was there a better title for this movie? I don't think so.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Well, in Australia, it was called Suddenly 30. And then like in every other country, they translated it in like a way that was suddenly 30. Because apparently they didn't think 13 going on 30 would track for other cultures. And I'm just like, do people not have the sound of music in other countries? Because I am 16 going on 17 is pretty similar to 13 going on 30. So I was confused by that, but that is the individual name, or that's the Australian name.

• 1:23:39Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you like Suddenly 30?

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  No, I think 13 going on 30 is a better title.

• 1:23:44Bill Simmons?

  Suddenly 30 is pretty good.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Uh, I like Suddenly 30. I also just think like if you're starting over 30 and flirty and thriving, I mean, that's the line of the movie. So.

• 1:23:53Bill Simmons?

  That's probably the porn parody of this.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:23:57Bill Simmons?

  Julia, you have a flex category.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  I would like to do the Vincent Chase Award. Are we sure this character was actually good at her job?

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Because I just have a lot of questions. So.

• 1:24:08Bill Simmons?

  I hope you're talking about Jenna.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  I'm talking about Jenna, but I'm also talking about her boss, Andy Serkis slash Gollum.

• 1:24:14Bill Simmons?

  Gollum.

• 1:24:15Speaker 01

  The way that he was so excited about the presentation, I have to wonder.

• 1:24:21Bill Simmons?

  Bravo!

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  I have to wonder, part of their problem is not just that she's giving away their ideas, but that he has terrible taste.

• 1:24:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, obviously.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  If he had better taste, wouldn't he, he wouldn't have liked that presentation. And I think that he just, I'm worried about his judgment. He didn't seem.

• 1:24:40Bill Simmons?

  Also, don't have a boys' party and invite the editor in chief from Sparkle. Keep her the fuck out. Why is she even there?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  That was really weird. And then with Jenna, if you were committing some, you know, like IP theft or you're committing any kind of crime, do you keep evidence in your desk drawer?

• 1:24:55Bill Simmons?

  I've been picking nets. You're, you're ripping that shit up at seven o'clock on a Wednesday night.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  And like, why is there so much like paper trail involved in this? Just make a phone call. Like, I don't understand. So I just am worried that both of these people are not actually good at their jobs, despite the fact that he's an editor in chief and she's a rising star.

• 1:25:12Bill Simmons?

  I think it's a great call and I don't think they were good at their jobs. And that's why Boys was in trouble. Which is Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. So she goes back, she's in the closet again. She's 13 again. But she has the wealth of eight days of experience of being 30 that she can now use going forward to basically reshape the next 17 years, but still ends up with Matt. Like if you redo all of this, maybe Matt's life is completely different. Like we just go into the fucking Twilight Zone.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  It doesn't track. It's a problem. Uh, there's, there's no way to explain it.

• 1:25:53Bill Simmons?

  Would she have a memory of it or no? Cause in Big, the kid has no memory of anything. He just shows up back home and doesn't remember anything that happened.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  I think she does have memory of it though, because.

• 1:26:01Bill Simmons?

  She does.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, she does. I think so. There's a line that indicates that she remembers because, and also like the way that she rips up the paper when Tom Tom comes back and everything, um, suggests that she's, you know, no longer interested in becoming this bad person.

• 1:26:16Bill Simmons?

  She spent her high school life trying to destroy Tom Tom basically and be Queen B.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Bill Simmons?

  But also trying not to be a bad person.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. She's like kinder, but I guess like she's gonna kill him with kindness. I don't see that working in high school, but you know, maybe.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  And she's like, I'm just gonna stretch it out here with Matt, cause I know in 17 years, he's gonna look like Mark Ruffalo.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know where we're headed. He's gonna be a really talented photographer.

• 1:26:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  So she's riding it out.

• 1:26:43Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? Jenna hits on a 13-year-old boy and asks for the ketchup. I can't believe the scenes in the movie.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a, it's a really tough one.

• 1:26:51Bill Simmons?

  In 04, it's a tough one.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  It's really uncomfortable to watch. You're just like, no, this isn't working. And it is a little bit weird, the way she talks to the girl in the elevator, but obviously since it's not like sexual, it's fine. But all of the like 30-year-old talking to 13-year-old as herself, it's sort of the inverse of the big relationship.

• 1:27:08Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. I, I feel like that joke really landed for me. I thought, I thought it was a great punchline. Like to be honest, when they're like, oh, that guy's really into you. She's like, really? Him? He's cute. And then she walks past the adult to the 13-year-old. That was a great punchline.

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  It's fine. It's a joke. It's fine.

• 1:27:27Bill Simmons?

  What did, what were, what was Lisa's take on that?

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  She agreed. She thought it was cute and funny. Come on.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  All right. Okay, sure.

• 1:27:35Bill Simmons?

  I think that's getting cut now.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  Well, maybe. I mean, it would be worse if the genders were swapped, but I think the older woman talking to the teenage boy is like, not a huge deal.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Well, the funniest thing about it though, it's like the sexiest she looks in the movie is in that scene. Like in that black dress, like her hair out there. Like it's like they really turn up her sex appeal in that scene. So it's.

• 1:27:52Bill Simmons?

  The bigger issue with that scene is her friend is going, there's some hottie checking you out. And it's just some, the guy who's not a hottie. I don't know why.

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  Also.

• 1:28:00Bill Simmons?

  Other actor must've called it.

• 1:28:00Speaker 03

  Judy Greer would have taken Jenna to the insane asylum after that moment. Like there's no way she would have allowed her to just continue existing as a human.

• 1:28:07Bill Simmons?

  No question. Uh, Seven Minutes in Heaven.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Is that's gone?

• 1:28:13Bill Simmons?

  Feels like a, a long New Yorker piece about terrible things that happened during Seven Minutes of Heaven. I don't know. I don't.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  If it's consensual, what about consensual, just in the closet for seven minutes? Seems better than like doing drugs. I don't know.

• 1:28:28Bill Simmons?

  What did Matt call it? Seven minutes of, seven minutes of rapist or something?

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Something like that. Yeah. I guess he was ahead of his time.

• 1:28:37Bill Simmons?

  There's no email or internet in this movie, even though it's 2004? Come on.

• 1:28:41Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. Like Jenna could be emailing her.

• 1:28:43Bill Simmons?

  Where was the scene of her being like, what is this? I can send a note and somebody gets it? Like, I don't know. That's an easy one. I had a problem with all the hockey stuff.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Well, I would, yeah, the hockey stuff, yes, is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much an insult to hockey players to seem so incredibly lame, goofy, have no muscle tone and no self-awareness. It's just like really bad.

• 1:29:05Bill Simmons?

  So this guy, first of all, the 2004 New York Rangers went 27 and 40.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:11Bill Simmons?

  They were exactly lighting the city on fire that year. So we'll start there. Um, the guy who plays Alex Carlson, we've all known hockey players in high school and college, maybe even you'd know a couple pros. They don't act like Alex Carlson.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  They're all kind of like stoic and cool.

• 1:29:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they do not have personality across the board. There's no like gregarious hockey player. They're all like, hey, we just gotta go out there and do our thing. And so I don't, I don't know where this guy came from.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  I mean, the goofy striptease, that's a, that's an eightier. That's really tough. Like just-

• 1:29:41Bill Simmons?

  It's the worst scene in the movie. I have that as well. Uh, Jenna's apartment, as nice as it was, I didn't like some of the decor. Thought the kitchen cabinets looked cheap.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  It did, yeah.

• 1:29:50Bill Simmons?

  Uh, some of the furniture was cheap. Yeah.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  Only 30.

• 1:29:54Bill Simmons?

  And then my last one was she's not curious enough about 2004. And they missed the easiest Michael Jackson joke possible, where they show her like, here's our Michael Jackson cover. And she's like, who's that? Like they, it's just sitting there. She hasn't seen Michael Jackson in 17 years.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  That's a great point.

• 1:30:11Bill Simmons?

  Missed that one. But they missed a couple like, wait, that's that now? And they just, it's like a scene missing almost.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, like she doesn't have like Will Ferrell in Elf when he gets to New York. And he's like, what is this? Like, there could have been a few more, a few more of those. Um, yeah, I think also, um, the Tracy from the art department's husband, when he comes in and like tries, he says like, we rattled a few drawers, drawers last week.

• 1:30:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was weird.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  That was really bad. That was like in a different movie. I was like, who is this person? And that just like stuck Alex-

• 1:30:42Bill Simmons?

  They're just trying to show that she's an awful person.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess. And she's like, yes, it just like didn't work though. And it's just weird. And, uh, didn't, didn't care for that guy. Um, I also thought they're like making fun of plastic surgery at one point. Um, Mark Ruffalo character like refers to the plastic surgery movement as if it's something that's like happened and is over.

• 1:31:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just wait, Mark Ruffalo.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was just like, that's, yeah, that didn't quite work. It's like, I don't know, just again, like a different plane or something. Didn't work for me.

• 1:31:12Bill Simmons?

  Ruffalo handing Ruben Partridge over acting word. It's gotta be the striptease with the New York Ranger, right?

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  It's a bad scene.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  It's so bad. Or the guy coming into her office and trying to make out with her. They're both really bad. Anything sexual in this movie is not well done. Like it's a very like neutered movie and they shouldn't have even tried. The striptease is terrible.

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Big was able to somehow pull it off, I think, because of the gender switch, but also they just, Penny Marshall's directing it. And I just, they, they did a better job with it. What do you have for the CR? Thanks. Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  My hottest take about this movie is, it is not a rom-com. It's a teen movie.

• 1:31:52Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. Okay.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Because first of all, they don't end up together in like the main timeline that we're in. It requires time travel for them to end up together. And ultimately, the character of Jenna is 13. Like everything about like her perspective of the movie is from a 13 year old. And it actually is really well done. But as a result, there's not this like professional woman who's like somehow wayward, finding, you know, back to the, finding this guy who like changes things for her. And there's, there's no like, um, threat to their relationship that they have to overcome in the course of the movie that evolves. Like everything, all the cards are on the table. He has a fiance. She's actually 13. And so it's really about a teenager like realizing who they want to be.

• 1:32:34Speaker 01

  It's in like the couple itself is like, you're happy that Jenna got a happy ending, but really the moral of the story is like, be a nice person and your life will be better. So I think that since the, the romance is so secondary to everything that Jennifer Garner is doing as Jenna, that's not really a rom-com.

• 1:32:50Bill Simmons?

  It's a non-sexual adult movie that's actually a teen movie.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:32:54Bill Simmons?

  I like it. Not even sure that's a hottest take. You might just be right.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you so much.

• 1:33:00Bill Simmons?

  Mine is for almost 30 years, from 1977 to 2004, Vienna was the single most underrated great pop song we had. And I still think it's one of the best pop songs of all time. I would put it with Wonderwall and Hey Jude and I Will Always Love You. Pick a song. I think it's perfect start to finish. It's perfectly sung. The lyrics are amazing. And for whatever reason, it took everybody 28 years to figure out how to put this in a fucking movie. And it turned out to be this weird Jennifer Garner movie. And they fucking nailed it. And it was just sitting there for anybody for two and a half decades and nobody unlocked it.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  It's so good. It is such a great song. Uh,

• 1:33:43Bill Simmons?

  I think it's his best song. And he even says, he thinks it's one of his two best. And he said, he attributes its late popularity of the film, adding, that's a movie that was so popular with girls and girls are mostly enthusiasm for where that song comes. It's a coming of age song. Slow down, you crazy child. So I guess it resonates with younger people. As a lifelong Billy Joel fan, that song was awesome the whole fucking time. And Vienna and Summer Highland, Summer Highland Falls were his two great songs that for some reason, weren't as popular as like 12 other Billy Joel songs. And I never understood it. So they finally unlocked it.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  It's a great song. I completely agree with you. I love the piano in it, which is obviously like his signature, but like, it really stands out. It's so beautiful. The funny thing is, I became a really big fan of the song within like the last like 10 years because my Spotify algorithm has pushed it on me so hard. And willingly, I'm like happy to be here. Like, I love it. I knew it from the movie mainly, but I, I don't think it has like a, it's like a niche song. It's like a B-side. Even though it's so great. I know. It's a great, great, great song. And it's, the scene in the movie is unlike any other scene. It, it's like, cause it's a different type of song than the rest of the soundtrack. Like it just really sets it off. It's really beautiful.

• 1:34:55Bill Simmons?

  I have another personal connection with this song.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:58Bill Simmons?

  When my daughter was 10, in fifth grade, and her class, everybody got to do some sort of talent show thing for a minute. And she sang Vienna and she fucking crushed it. And it was like one of, like my parent highlights of my life.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  That's amazing. I vaguely remember that when that happened, actually.

• 1:35:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it was, her voice was like perfect 10 year old voice, like probably like the, the peak of what her voice was. And she just crushed the song, but nobody knew the song. So all the parents were like, I love that song. And they were all fired up about it.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:35:26Bill Simmons?

  Casting what ifs, Gwyneth Paltrow, Hilary Swank, Renee Zellweger were all backups if Jennifer Garner couldn't do this movie. Um, I don't think any of those work.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  Me neither.

• 1:35:37Bill Simmons?

  Renee Zellweger is probably a little too old, I think. I think mid 90s Renee Zellweger, I think it works.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Empire Records Renee Zellweger.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Plus she's, you know, already been in Jerry Maguire, which like weird.

• 1:35:52Bill Simmons?

  I don't see it.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Me neither. I do think that young Jenna looks like Hilary Swank, but I definitely don't see a Hilary Swank. And then, you know, funny enough, Gwyneth Paltrow did like the, the host, the, um, flight attendant movie with Mark Ruffalo. So they got their swing together, but that movie was not good.

• 1:36:07Bill Simmons?

  No. Casting director said if, uh, Ruffalo turned it down, Paul Rudd and Sam Rockwell were next on the list. And then-

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  Interesting. Paul Rudd, I could definitely see in that role. He would be-

• 1:36:18Bill Simmons?

  Young Matt, Young Matt and Young Jenna, they did, the test audiences hated them. They had to reshoot all of it with different actors and it worked better.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  I don't think Young Matt is, is that good, but-

• 1:36:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was surprised to even know about them, considering it, I didn't feel like they landed in an incredible spot.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:36:36Bill Simmons?

  Joey Pants award for best that guy. I think Kathy Baker is Kathy Baker, even though Craig would say she's a that lady. Uh, but it's clearly Gollum.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I said that he's like so famous. He's been in so many movies over the last like 20 years. So-

• 1:36:50Bill Simmons?

  So who'd you have then?

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Mine is Kirsten Warren, who plays Trish, the editor in chief of Sparkle at the party.

• 1:36:58Bill Simmons?

  The Frizzy lady?

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  I was like, I know that voice. I know that voice. Saved by the Bell, the college years.

• 1:37:05Bill Simmons?

  Oh my God, that's a good one. I like that show.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Me too. I was like, I know her. I know her. I know her. And then I, it was-

• 1:37:13Bill Simmons?

  She's the winner. Great call.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:15Bill Simmons?

  Dion Waiters award, I can give you young Tom Tom. I can give you the Frizzy editor of Sparkle who you just talked about. Uh, I can give you Chris Grundy driving the cab.

• 1:37:25Speaker 01

  It's Grandy? Come on.

• 1:37:26Bill Simmons?

  Chris Grandy.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Respect him.

• 1:37:28Bill Simmons?

  But it's clearly Arlene, the assistant.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  It's Arlene.

• 1:37:31Bill Simmons?

  Just hitting home runs, left every scene, crying at the end during the worst pitch ever in a magazine. I loved Arlene. I, I don't know who that actress is, but great job by her.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  I also love when Jennifer Garner's like leaving the office. I think it's to go to the photo shoot and she goes to Arlene, aren't you coming? And Arlene's like so surprised, but so happy to be included. Yeah. I loved it. Loved Arlene.

• 1:37:52Bill Simmons?

  Recasting couch director city. I can give you Tim Curry as Gollum, Gollum's part as the magazine editor. Just passed away, by the way.

• 1:38:02Bill Simmons?

  How about Ryan Reynolds? Ryan Reynolds is Alex Carlson.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's interesting. That's interesting.

• 1:38:08Bill Simmons?

  Early in the career, like post Van Wilder, um, little more famous. Would be fun to see him in this.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  I'm just checking when the proposal came out. The proposal was in 2009. Yeah, just thinking about him before that. And I guess he's like definitely maybe Ryan Reynolds at this point.

• 1:38:23Bill Simmons?

  He's about to be Amityville Horror, make a bunch of bad movies in a row.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  I'm always just thinking with Ryan Reynolds. I'm very anti Ryan Reynolds, having nothing to do with the recent stuff with Justin Baldoni.

• 1:38:34Bill Simmons?

  You've never, you've never liked him?

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:38:36Bill Simmons?

  No, I know. Ever since I've known you, you've always been out.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Yes. And I just don't, I, I think he works in the proposal because there's something sort of like sycophantish about him in that. We're like, you like his family so much that you buy it. You're like, yeah, she, she would want to join this family. But he's just not like, likable. And I just feel like he would want Jenna's approval so much more than Maddie ends up wanting it and as an adult, like-

• 1:38:59Bill Simmons?

  Can I offer you Mark Paul Gossett, then?

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:39:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  He was the most important actor for me from like 1986 to 1992. Actually, when I, when I was born until I was six.

• 1:39:09Bill Simmons?

  Right, right around that, right age range?

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  That would be good. Yeah, I could see that. I could see that working. What about Scott Wolf? Scott Wolf would have been great.

• 1:39:18Bill Simmons?

  Sure.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  Jennifer Garner is tall. That is true.

• 1:39:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she, he's gotta be at least two inches taller.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay. Um, I was gonna say, I think this movie works in almost any city, even though I think they nail New York. I think you could move it to almost any city.

• 1:39:35Bill Simmons?

  Chicago during the summer.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:37Bill Simmons?

  Boston easily.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  I think even LA. Like I really do. Like I think you can do this almost anywhere.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  San Francisco in the 2000s.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 1:39:45Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you have a flex category. You gonna come on the Zoom for this or are you gonna stay anonymous?

• 1:39:49Speaker 03

  I can come on Zoom.

• 1:39:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, thanks, man.

• 1:39:54Speaker 03

  I was gonna do Lena Dunham Running Spawn Ranch Award, most jarring casting for Andy Serkis, because I I've just recently gotten into Lord of the Rings. And I'm like, holy shit, that's Sméagol running the office. But you guys hit that appropriately.

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  My precious.

• 1:40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. We used to have a category that I don't believe is in the flex list anymore called best hang, worst hang. Remember that?

• 1:40:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that should be in that. That must have been accidentally deleted.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  Say what you will about the actor and how good he is in it, but I think the character of young Matty, kind of a sneaky great hang. Like, kind of an independent king, solo dancing to talking heads at the party was kind of awesome. Like, he was just like, has great taste in music. He's a photographer. He's building, he's like woodworking. I love that he was like, I love that everybody.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  He's a hobbyist.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  Everybody shit on him at this party. And he goes, I'm gonna go home and get my keyboard guitar. Like, as if Matt's gonna say the party, he comes back and he's gonna play a song. I actually thought he was really likeable and had a good personality for somebody who's supposed to be like a huge nerd. He seemed kind of fine to me, like a decent hang.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent. Absolutely would have been friends with Matt in the eighties.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. I think he's a good dude.

• 1:41:02Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:41:04Bill Simmons?

  Half past internet research.

• 1:41:07Bill Simmons?

  Not a ton here, except for the Krista B. Allen played thirteen year old Jenna and then did it again in Ghost of Girlfriends Past, where she played Jennifer Garner's younger version.

• 1:41:19Bill Simmons?

  In Seven Minutes of Heaven, you can see actual photos of Jennifer Garner as a child on the back of the door. And then there's a scene when Jenna breaks up with Alex Carlson, which was deleted, but you can find on the Blu-ray special features, which I'm sure you have.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  I don't think I have that anymore, but I definitely had the DVD of this when I was in college. There's no doubt about that.

• 1:41:39Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain.

• 1:41:41Bill Simmons?

  Jennifer Garner, I think, is a yes.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:41:45Bill Simmons?

  She's got, she's on Alias. This movie makes almost a hundred million dollars and she starts dating Ben Affleck. I think this is apexy.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  I, as an actress, I have to agree. Like, I don't think her acting career has like gotten bigger since then. Like, that's sort of been like.

• 1:42:00Bill Simmons?

  She's more famous now.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:02Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, back then, you would have said like, oh, she's gonna be Julia Roberts.

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's funny, because like, we haven't mentioned the fact that she's like, been the Capital One lady for a long time, and she took, she took Once Upon a Farm public within the last year. Like, she has all these other revenue streams. But as an actress, like, it's because of what we talked about before, it's kind of like, it became secondary in some ways, one movie a year or whatnot. So I guess I agree with you. She's certainly richer now, more famous.

• 1:42:28Bill Simmons?

  Money-making Jen Garner, maybe this was in the apex.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  No, but I think, I think her Capital One money must be immense. I can't even imagine.

• 1:42:36Bill Simmons?

  Everybody likes her. Impeccable reputation.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  I get why. I've watched a lot of like, like, wacky Jen videos, because I like, I like to have the reasoning for why I'm a fan. And she is so charming. And I did get to meet her once when I was doing this Felicity project and I interviewed her. And she was, there was no reason for her to say yes. Like, there's, there's no reason for her to do a lot of stuff. She did a lot of press around the twentieth anniversary of this movie. And I was just kind of like, why? Like, she, she always something that she could be promoting, but it seems like she was just like, yeah, sure, me and Judy Greer, we'll do an interview with Vogue, why not? So I think she's just like a great person. How many times can I say it?

• 1:43:10Bill Simmons?

  Beloved Hollywood lady. Mark Ruffalo, no. Razzles, unless you want to say in the eighties, but this, that, this was probably the most prominent Razzles we've ever had.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  I only know about them from this movie.

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, so there you go. Two thousands fake fashion magazines as TV or movie plots?

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  It's tough.

• 1:43:30Bill Simmons?

  Would you go in the two thousand teens for this?

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  Um, I think that How to Meet a Guy in Ten Days is sort of like the bigger magazine rom-com, so.

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  It's on the list, by the way.

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think that one probably would, would be the apex mountain for that. Like, I think I was, I was looking into this for the pod of all of like the women who have played like, TV producers, advertising execs, or like journalists. And I think that the two biggest ones, in my opinion, are Even Men Doesn't Hitch, which you guys just did, and Kate Hudson and How to Lose a Guy. So I think those, those two are bigger.

• 1:44:01Bill Simmons?

  Is this your resume to do the How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days podcast? Because it's been on the list for a while. It is the Sacramento Kings, New York Knicks, NBA Finals. I've been, I just wanted to do the pod to talk about that for ten minutes.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  I'm just happy to be here, Bill. Anytime you ask, I'll be here. So you, you let me know.

• 1:44:18Bill Simmons?

  Madonna's crazy for you?

• 1:44:22Bill Simmons?

  The answer is no.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 1:44:24Bill Simmons?

  Because it's actually when it came out and it was on the Vision Quest soundtrack. It has a really important moment in Vision Quest, and I feel like that was a huge song. And I don't think it needed this movie to become a big song. So I'm gonna say mid eighties for that. Uh, thrillers, obviously, mid eighties.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Obviously.

• 1:44:41Bill Simmons?

  Sam Ball, the actor who played the hockey player Alex Carlson? Apex Mountain. It's always a red flag when you look at the IMDb and he's had multiple names. There's the Samuel Ball stage for him, then he was Sam Ball, and it's.

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  That's gotta be a SAG thing, right? Like, having to change his name around? Yeah. Well, I, I hope to never see him again, like, no offense, but this movie.

• 1:45:05Bill Simmons?

  Don't worry, I don't think you had.

• 1:45:08Bill Simmons?

  Post nine eleven, feeling good about New York City again movies? It's in the running.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  I think it's Spider-Man, Spider-Man and Spider-Man Two, the, with Tobey Maguire. But those are up there, too. Just because those are like, you know, like superhero movies in a way, yeah. And like, Spider-Man comes out in two thousand two, and it's such a beautiful view of New York. And like, there's a savior.

• 1:45:31Bill Simmons?

  Last twenty-fifth hour. A great movie. Judy Greer, no.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  No. I think, what's her apex mountain? That's a tough one. But I don't think it's this. I mean, I do think acting wise, The Descendants, she's fantastic in that. Um, and that's, but. Ah, it's tough.

• 1:45:49Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing. She, her career, there hasn't really, there wasn't like the moment. She was just always Judy Greer reliable.

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  She's not exactly a character actress, but she's just sort of like, she's like a second banana all the time. And she's never like the person you're showing up for, but you're always glad she's there. She's like the best person to have a party.

• 1:46:08Bill Simmons?

  You're hoping Five Day Weekend, season two, may be a lot more Judy Greer in season two.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  She wants to say it's called Five Star Weekend, please respect it.

• 1:46:16Bill Simmons?

  And Five Day Weekend.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  Well, that too. They packed a lot in. Yeah, I hope Elektra is back. She was great. But my favorite person on the show is Regina Hall. Carry on.

• 1:46:26Bill Simmons?

  She was great. Using an umbrella as self-defense, yes.

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  So great.

• 1:46:31Bill Simmons?

  Rom-com characters cruelly breaking up a wedding for their own self-interest. I could offer you my best friend's wedding, a lot like Love or Thirteen Going on Thirty, as three candidates, unless there's another one I'm not thinking of.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  It has to be Julia Roberts. I mean, it's my best.

• 1:46:46Bill Simmons?

  I think so. It's the whole premise of the movie.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the purple dress, yeah.

• 1:46:51Bill Simmons?

  She's basically an evil person in the movie. We've covered it on the rewatchables.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's such, that's like.

• 1:46:56Bill Simmons?

  Dark.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  I guess my girl Cameron Diaz, she's so good in that. Of course he chooses her.

• 1:47:01Bill Simmons?

  And then Vienna. The song. I think this was Apex Mountain. It completely rejuvenated it and it became, it finally got the acclaim it deserved for twenty-seven years.

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, and I can't think of another movie that could use it this way. It's great. It's perfect.

• 1:47:18Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks? Hanks.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  Hanks, for sure.

• 1:47:22Bill Simmons?

  Hanks is rough.

• 1:47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  I didn't prep you for this category.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:47:26Bill Simmons?

  Nineteen seventy-seven Goldie Hawn, nineteen ninety-one Julia, two thousand eleven Emma Stone, or twenty twenty-six Zendaya.

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  Uh, I think it's Emma Stone of those.

• 1:47:37Bill Simmons?

  I think it's Emma Stone. I think Emma Stone would have crushed this movie.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  She would have been great. She would have been great. And I think she has the physicality for that really important first scene. And she is like, similar Jennifer Garner. She's like not attainable, but she can present in a movie as like a regular person in terms of her attractiveness and.

• 1:47:55Bill Simmons?

  I'll go one step further. Craig, give me your thoughts on this. Emma Stone, I think she plays herself as the thirteen year old. I think she goes all in. She's like, I don't need, I don't need a thirteen year old. I can do it. I'm that good of an actress. Yeah. Plays, plays herself at thirteen and thirty. Nobody's done it in a body switch movie before.

• 1:48:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, Yorgos Lanthimos can film it. Yeah, I think that would be good.

• 1:48:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she uses like CGI, early CGI. I think she could have done it. The David Caruso Stuff a Legends Award for character who definitely should have been spun off into their own sequel. I, a Lucy sequel, I think, could have been interesting.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:48:31Bill Simmons?

  Lucy running Sparkle magazine and then has a new competitor and it's, you know, Lindsay Lohan or whoever in oh five would have worked.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  I think that would have been great. There's way more, there's way more to that character. I'm still wondering why she's called Tom Tom. Like, you know, I've got a lot of questions.

• 1:48:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, why is she called Tom Tom?

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'd love to find out.

• 1:48:51Bill Simmons?

  Tom Tom Cat?

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  I guess. I have no idea.

• 1:48:55Bill Simmons?

  Pick a knits. I have a few.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I mean.

• 1:48:58Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna turn the floor to you because I have so many. I'll, I'll, I'll turn the floor to you and then I'll, I'll mop up what you didn't get.

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  I mean, the biggest one we already talked about is like, how does she live her life knowing that she had this alternate life that she's then undone? Like, that just like, doesn't make any sense. You know, I have a lot of New York stuff, like, the address 61 Fifth Avenue is actually 11th Street, but they frequently show 12th Street.

• 1:49:25Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you're going deep.

• 1:49:27Speaker 01

  Well, I looked at all the exteriors. New York is.

• 1:49:30Bill Simmons?

  Also, she lives in the village and they're like, he's in the village. And she goes, what's, what's the village? But she's already in the village, right?

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't, it doesn't really work. And, and like, of course, every New York movie, you have to wonder, like, how could she get there so quickly and all of that? I was also wondering how Matty just like, doesn't really have any work. Like, it doesn't seem like he actually does anything. His, his girlfriend does refer to him, like, taking pictures of vitamin bottles. But as far as I can tell, he's actually unemployed and just kind of always home slash available.

• 1:50:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he should have been talking a lot about fantasy football. He's in like, three leagues.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:07Bill Simmons?

  And then, um, is a huge Knicks fan or something. He needed some sort of hobby other than, I'm an unemployed photographer who just kind of hangs around.

• 1:50:13Speaker 03

  Probably a huge pothead, I feel like.

• 1:50:15Bill Simmons?

  What happened?

• 1:50:15Speaker 03

  Probably a huge pothead, too. I feel like that guy's smoking a lot of weed.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  Probably. This might, this might, um, come up, but like, he kind of sucks. Like, he's sort of a loser.

• 1:50:26Bill Simmons?

  I'd say, I feel like that's a Ruffalo thing, but I enjoy it. Cause I don't think he wants to be in this movie.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:50:31Bill Simmons?

  But I do feel like his energy actually works for the movie because he doesn't want to be in the movie.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Everything with making a magazine is totally devoid from reality. Like, they could, they could have made it a little bit more realistic. Like, when Andy Serkis brings up the redesign and they're all like, that is a death sentence, or like, the R word. It's just kind of like, actually, that's not true.

• 1:50:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Magazines.

• 1:50:55Bill Simmons?

  Designs work.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they really do. It's like, you know, a relaunch and a way to get some attention. So, I had a lot of issues with that.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  And I also just thought that some of the stuff, like, in her apartment, like, when she's going through her clothes and whatnot, like, she just would have had so many more questions. And to your point, she could have, like, looked some stuff up. Like, she could have sat down at, like, the You've Got Mail style giant computer.

• 1:51:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Like, been like, just asked some questions, essentially. And that, that really stuck out.

• 1:51:24Bill Simmons?

  I have a few really hardcore ones.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:26Bill Simmons?

  The six chicks are dressed like it's 1985 and not 1987.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  I actually wanted to ask you about that specifically.

• 1:51:33Bill Simmons?

  I was in high school in the mid 80s. They're, they're dressed like it's 85. 87, the hair is starting to get bigger. We're big hair across the board. Nobody has the big hair. They're like, more in like, the first two years of Madonna era retro look. And it's just not, it's not accurate.

• 1:51:51Bill Simmons?

  Jenna's dad's video camera

• 1:51:55Bill Simmons?

  just didn't exist in 1987.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:57Bill Simmons?

  I had video cameras from day one. They were super bulky. You needed a battery on the side. It was the camera attached to the thing to lug it around. It was like 50 pounds. Nobody had a camera like that in 1987.

• 1:52:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:52:14Bill Simmons?

  Matt should have been way more dumbfounded and alarmed by how actually truly crazy Jenna was. And it's just not hammered home enough. He's just going with it because she's hot. And I just think there would have been more questions. For her, so, she, she becomes an adult, goes to, she starts throwing, she's, she basically litters all the time. Do 13 year olds just litter?

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  I'm embarrassed to say.

• 1:52:38Bill Simmons?

  I know they're saying it's a sign of immaturity, but I'm positive I didn't do that when I was 13. Like, I'd eat a shrimp and just throw it over my shoulder. Who does that?

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  I'm embarrassed to say that I used to litter. I did.

• 1:52:48Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  It's really a dark time in my, in my past. I'm sorry to even have to admit to it, but I'm just trying to be honest with you here. I did use to litter. I regret it. I would never do it now.

• 1:52:57Bill Simmons?

  Craig's heart. Craig just left the Zoom. Craig hates littering.

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  I know it's wrong. It's really rude to the people around you. It like, it's just a terrible thing to do.

• 1:53:06Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Julia, it's pro-littering.

• 1:53:09Bill Simmons?

  The parents would have redone the basement.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  At some point, uh.

• 1:53:14Bill Simmons?

  Jenna's out of there for college in their 20s. Like, at some point, you're redoing it. You're putting like, a wine cellar down there. Like, they, they obviously have some money because they go away for trips and stuff. I just don't think they're leaving the basement exactly the same 17 years later. You're doing something. You're doing some sort of remodel. You're putting a TV down there. You're not just leaving it intact.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  It's probably a computer.

• 1:53:36Bill Simmons?

  Jenna, from the moment she becomes 30, just eats like crap for the entire movie. And you think they're setting up a scene where she's like, I can't fit it in these jeans anymore. And they just don't. They let it go.

• 1:53:47Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting. I think that's realistic.

• 1:53:50Bill Simmons?

  And candy and pizza and it just, it's just bouncing off her.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Isn't that kind of like the freshman 15? Like, I guess, like, you gain weight in college, but like, you're, you're free for the first time and you're just able to, like, eat whatever you want.

• 1:54:02Bill Simmons?

  Never happens in this movie.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  That's true. That's true.

• 1:54:05Bill Simmons?

  You mentioned evil Jenna. No way she keeps the letters to Sparkle. Just, hey, they're in the top drawer of my desk in case anybody wants to go through and I'll get fired. Here's a big one. Well, two, my two biggest ones. The class of 2004 Sparkle magazine ad is on the bus in 12 hours.

• 1:54:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:54:22Bill Simmons?

  They've stolen, they've stolen the ideas. She walks out of the office. It's on the bus already. This is the most miraculous ad campaign anyone's ever had.

• 1:54:30Speaker 01

  That did not make any sense. And he's like, it's already all, everywhere overnight. That made no sense. Agreed. Like, the bus ads are booked far in advance.

• 1:54:38Bill Simmons?

  This is my wife's biggest one.

• 1:54:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:54:41Bill Simmons?

  The fiance of Mark Ruffalo, this whole time, they're dating, they're about to get married. He's been keeping this dollhouse of Jenna in his closet.

• 1:54:54Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's just tucked away in the top. And then Jenna shows up and she's like, oh, who are you? And, and, you know, you're gonna be, probably this woman's gonna be on your radar. It's like, oh, my God. This is the lady that my fiance made a fucking dollhouse of and then kept for the next 17 years. I'm on high alert. I've got to destroy this lady. Nothing. Bounces off her. Yeah, keep it in your closet. What the fuck?

• 1:55:22Speaker 01

  Especially because he has a picture of Jenna in a bathtub in that dollhouse. It's like, really weird. That's a good one.

• 1:55:30Bill Simmons?

  Craig, if Liz, you, you move in with Liz and you're like, yo, top left shelf of the closet, just gonna have my dollhouse of this girl I was obsessed with when I was 13. Does Liz move out at that point? What happens?

• 1:55:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, she probably throws that thing off the balcony and smashes it.

• 1:55:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's the thing. You smash the dollhouse. You're like, it's me or the dollhouse. You're picking right now.

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  Ruffalo's character is like, all pretending that, he's like, hey, Jenna, I moved on. That was 17 years ago. Like.

• 1:55:58Bill Simmons?

  You didn't move on.

• 1:55:59Speaker 03

  I barely remember you. It's like, polishing off that dollhouse once a week, I bet.

• 1:56:03Bill Simmons?

  It's a big dollhouse. It's not like, it's like this little tiny thing he's shoving in the drawer. It's like taking up actual size.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Just, isn't the dollhouse at his parents' house, though? Like, it comes back in the final scene and he hands it to her. And.

• 1:56:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but he's not taking the fiance back to the parents' house?

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess he's probably.

• 1:56:22Bill Simmons?

  It is in the parents' house, but why did he keep it?

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  Well, that's the weird part.

• 1:56:26Bill Simmons?

  Going through his room?

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Well, related to that, why are they getting married to his parents' house? I heard they went to the San Isidro Ranch. So they could have a much nicer wedding.

• 1:56:33Bill Simmons?

  Trop. Everybody gets married at somebody's house in, in a movie.

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  I will say.

• 1:56:38Bill Simmons?

  Meanwhile, I've never been to a wedding. I've been to 70 weddings. I've never been to a wedding at somebody's house.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  I've been to two home weddings. They're both in the Hamptons. And home weddings are actually incredibly expensive if you do it, like, in the Hamptons. You have to bring everything in, all of like, you need to have like, generators, catering, a floor put down. It's crazy.

• 1:56:57Bill Simmons?

  Craig, have you been to a home wedding?

• 1:57:00Speaker 03

  I have been to a backyard wedding, yes.

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  Well, a backyard wedding is more like what they had. But I'm just saying, if he's going to San Isidro, I think he can afford a wedding, like, at a hotel or something like that.

• 1:57:10Speaker 03

  It's, it's still weird if, if the dollhouse is at the parents' house. Like, I'm sorry, if.

• 1:57:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're throwing that out.

• 1:57:15Speaker 03

  If my parents were holding on to some dollhouse that I built, a girl when I was 13 years old and Liz saw that and when she's 30 years old, she'd be.

• 1:57:21Bill Simmons?

  That means they want you to get back together with that girl.

• 1:57:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:23Bill Simmons?

  Also, they also say that she threw the dollhouse at him.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it should have, like, broken. He must have fixed it.

• 1:57:31Bill Simmons?

  That's even weirder.

• 1:57:35Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel. I got a listener email suggesting a tweet here. Sequel, prequel, streamer, all black cast, spinoff, remake, or untouchable. Now, we have six choices, seven choices for this. The answer is remake. Ironically, Netflix, March 2026, this movie's on Netflix right now, announced that they're doing a remake. It is directed by Brett Haley. It stars Emily Bader and Logan Litman. I like Logan Litman.

• 1:58:07Speaker 01

  I love Logan Litman. Yeah, he's great.

• 1:58:09Bill Simmons?

  He's good.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  She was in a previous Netflix movie, The People We Meet on Vacation.

• 1:58:15Bill Simmons?

  Original cast members, Jennifer Garner and Judy Greer spotted doing cameos.

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  I think Garner's a producer, like she's an EP on it, I think.

• 1:58:24Bill Simmons?

  I'll give it a whirl.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  Of course. Yeah, me too. I'm interested.

• 1:58:27Bill Simmons?

  Thirty, seventy, made thirty percent chance that's good, seventy percent chance it's disappointing, and a one hundred percent chance my wife will watch it and love it with my daughter. So there you go.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll definitely give it a shot. And Jennifer Garner, like, supporting it, that's a good sign.

• 1:58:43Bill Simmons?

  This, I'm surprised, was not, the remake was not just a streamer. I mean, like a one-season streamer show.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  Like, not, haven't already done it, you're saying?

• 1:58:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the first episode is everything, her in high school, leading up to the body switch. The second episode, she wakes up. You have that whole first season of her trying to figure out what to do when she's thirty. It's kind of, it's kind of weird this didn't happen that way.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  I agree with that. I think that, like, the problem with the streamer rom-coms, like, why they're not as high quality, is because there's not as much, like, time committed to answering those questions. And so it would really change, kind of, the approach from all these shows.

• 1:59:23Bill Simmons?

  Amazon YA shows that they do.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  Well, that's all mapped out.

• 1:59:27Bill Simmons?

  This would be an Amazon YA show.

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  That's true. That's true. Those shows have gotten, like, more, this would need to be raunchier. Would need to have, like, or like, a real sexual aspect to it, because those shows all have them. Whether it's, like, raunchy or kind or whatever, but that's really missing from this movie that's present in those TV shows now.

• 1:59:43Bill Simmons?

  Craig, what do you think if they'd remade this, but when she turns thirty, she becomes a male hockey player? And then it becomes, like, heated rivalry?

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

  That's good. That plays now, you know?

• 1:59:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:59:56Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's now Matt. Matt's playing hockey and, or maybe Matt is involved with the hockey player. I don't know. They heated rivalry it up.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  That's off-campus. That'd be great. Great show.

• 2:00:06Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Forest, St. Lo, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols, Ted Levine? Or someone else? Did you have anyone for this?

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  Well, there's not that many people in this movie, which is what I was thinking about. Like, there's kind of four people in it, maybe, maybe six, if you include Alex Carlson and the fiance. So my answer to that is no. Like, we're, we're good with this small cast.

• 2:00:28Bill Simmons?

  I would like Kirk Herbstreet on the director's commentary.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Does he do hockey, too?

• 2:00:35Bill Simmons?

  No, Kirk Herbstreet during the magazine pitch is like, yeah, it's a great pitch by Jenna. She looked over the room and she nailed the pitch. Al.

• 2:00:46Bill Simmons?

  Just one Oscar who gets it. Can the soundtrack get an Oscar?

• 2:00:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Sure.

• 2:00:52Bill Simmons?

  They have Oscars for soundtracks? I can't remember.

• 2:00:54Speaker 01

  They usually have original song. I don't think they have, like, licensed song.

• 2:00:57Bill Simmons?

  I feel like best put-together soundtrack should be either an Oscar or Grammy. Maybe it's, maybe it is a Grammy.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  I think, uh, I don't know.

• 2:01:04Bill Simmons?

  Should have won something.

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  I think the soundtrack is great. For me, it is definitely the costumes and the wardrobe. It's like, just so well done. And I know that Jennifer Garner has worked with that woman many more times. Her name is Susie DeSanto. And it's like, to me, it's why the movie has trance, like, transcended culture, is because of the dresses and the way that she wears them. And, yeah, there's no question.

• 2:01:29Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a probably an answerable question for this movie?

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  I mean, like I said, I'm wondering why she's named Tom Tom. We can't find out unless they, they add more to it. I also would like to know, what is the first issue of, of Sparkle? That Judy, Judy Greer will be overseeing Lucy.

• 2:01:46Bill Simmons?

  Karen and Sheik?

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  Want much more of her, yeah.

• 2:01:50Bill Simmons?

  So I had as my first one, who ultimately won the pose versus, poise versus sparkle battle in the 2000s? I think the answer is neither. I think Us Weekly just knocks both of them out and it's over.

• 2:02:03Speaker 01

  Probably. I was subscribing to both, so that's true.

• 2:02:07Bill Simmons?

  My other answerable is the R-rated version of this movie is really interesting, and I'm glad they didn't do it. But there's a whole raunchier version of this movie that you probably can do with Cameron Diaz.

• 2:02:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:18Bill Simmons?

  Where Jen has sex for the first time and like, but I don't think she can be thirteen in that scenario.

• 2:02:23Speaker 03

  I think the R-rated version Mark Ruffalo already did. It's called Poor Things.

• 2:02:27Bill Simmons?

  Right, right.

• 2:02:28Speaker 03

  Where he's kind of in the same situation.

• 2:02:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  I actually, I watched him do a Chicken Shop Date video, just about that, actually. And he was like, yeah, I agree with you.

• 2:02:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I, I don't think this movie makes a hundred million dollars and lives on forever if it's R.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:02:43Bill Simmons?

  Memorabilia you'd most want from this movie, it's either the dollhouse or the dress.

• 2:02:47Speaker 01

  I think it's the jacket that she wears to work on the first day. It's that Nanette Laporte jacket that she wears over the slip dress, for me. But I guess the famous thriller dress is probably, like, the iconic.

• 2:02:58Bill Simmons?

  Making you the most money if, if you borrow it on eBay in 2010.

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  Yes, definitely. The jacket Lily Reinhardt just wore on her press tour. Like, she got, she went to the designer, she had, like, one in her basement, she borrowed it and they give it back. So it's, like, still, there's, like, a few of them out there. Yeah.

• 2:03:16Bill Simmons?

  This is great information, Juliet. Really bringing it to the table.

• 2:03:19Speaker 01

  Thank you, I'm trying.

• 2:03:21Bill Simmons?

  Coach Finstock, Mr. Maragia, where best, worst life lesson? I can give you, I don't want to be original, I want to be cool. I think that's a bad life lesson. Or you can't just turn back time.

• 2:03:34Speaker 01

  That's.

• 2:03:34Bill Simmons?

  Profound.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  That's really deep. Um.

• 2:03:37Bill Simmons?

  Or slow down, you crazy child. You're so ambitious for a juvenile.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Can I give you one from?

• 2:03:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:43Speaker 01

  The great Kathy Baker? Those aren't real people, honey. Those are models.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  I said, I have.

• 2:03:50Bill Simmons?

  One of those.

• 2:03:51Speaker 01

  They're just great in the beginning. For me, it's that.

• 2:03:54Bill Simmons?

  Double feature choice, I think it has to be big, unless you want to do Freaking Friday.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  I think it's big. I, I, I did.

• 2:04:02Bill Simmons?

  You did big first than this.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also, this movie, like, intentionally nods to big, so, like, it's inviting you to do that. So I think it's a pretty easy choice.

• 2:04:10Bill Simmons?

  And then who won the movie? Jennifer Garner.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Jennifer Garner, obviously. I mean, she, she wins at so many things.

• 2:04:15Bill Simmons?

  Craig, come into the Zoom. What do you got for us?

• 2:04:19Speaker 03

  I'm not ashamed to admit I'd never seen this movie.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:22Bill Simmons?

  Wow. Shocking.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  I was nine years old, and I was a boy, and I'm sure many nine-year-old boys my age did not watch this film. And, you know, by the time I was, like, sixteen, I was watching Superbad. I wasn't going back and watching Thirteen Going on Thirty. This is one of Liz's favorite movies. She was extremely excited to watch this.

• 2:04:40Bill Simmons?

  So not surprised to hear that.

• 2:04:41Speaker 03

  It was probably the most amped she's been for rewatchables in a long time.

• 2:04:46Speaker 03

  I, I really enjoyed it. I, I was so impressed by Jennifer Garner, who, I didn't realize how little of a relationship I had to, like.

• 2:04:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:56Speaker 03

  I see her more around Brentwood than I think I've seen her in movies. Like, I see her at my barber shop, because she brings her kid in. And I, but I, I realized going through her IMDB, I'm like, Juno? She's in Draft Day with Costner? Like, uh, what else have I really seen her in? Ghost of Girlfriends Past, I think I saw, but it's remarkable, you know, people talk about how, there's like a joke that young people know of Paul Newman as, like, the guy from, on salad dressings, you know? Like, they don't have to realize he's an actor. What Juliet said is completely true. I think of the majority of people in their twenties, probably think of Jennifer Garner as the Capital One lady who was married to Ben Affleck. And I just thought she was so good. I thought her physical acting was, like, amazing and really subtle.

• 2:05:38Speaker 03

  I think, like, even the scene in the beginning where she's waking up and it's more of the big broad stuff was great. But the whole movie, like, even the way she's drinking the pina colada, she's taking these, like, giant gulps.

• 2:05:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:49Speaker 03

  Because she's, like, so excited to drink it. Super impressed with her. Thought she was totally, like, fantastic in it. And I actually think, having seen this only for the first time as somebody in his early thirties, I kind of think this movie's better to see in your thirties than, than thirteen.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  I think you can appreciate the humor more.

• 2:06:06Bill Simmons?

  Case for both. Yeah.

• 2:06:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:08Bill Simmons?

  Because I watched, I watched my daughter live through it as she was growing up, and she also loved it and really identified with the teen stuff. But my wife loved it because she saw it when she was in her thirties.

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  There's a couple of adult themes that are pretty good. I think the scene where she's trying to break up Ruffalo's wedding, and Ruffalo has that moment where he was like, look, I'm gonna marry this woman, all right? Like, you have to live with the consequences of the choices that you made. And she's like, okay, and she leaves, which is like a pretty sad, poignant moment for a thirteen-year-old girl to, like, live with.

• 2:06:36Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  And then even when she's with her mom at the house, and she's like, I'm sorry I didn't come to Christmas last year. I'm like, I'm at the age now, I'm like, wow, that, that's a real thing. Like, how often do you see your parents at that age? So, yeah, I thought this movie was really enjoyable.

• 2:06:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you re, it, it does flip the rom-com thing, because you think in any rom-com, they end up together at the wedding. You know, she steals her way and they leave the wedding and they drive off, end of the movie. And this one, he's like, no, I'm marrying this lady.

• 2:07:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:04Bill Simmons?

  You blew it.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:05Bill Simmons?

  It's done. It's good. Oh, Craig, he's in.

• 2:07:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:09Bill Simmons?

  Could be watching this one with his kid someday.

• 2:07:11Speaker 03

  I also recently watched Clueless for the first time.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  That's insane. That's crazy.

• 2:07:15Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:07:16Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 2:07:17Speaker 03

  Which I think, like, I think Thirteen Going on Thirty holds up much better than, Clueless is really fun and charming, but I think this movie ages better to watch as an adult.

• 2:07:24Bill Simmons?

  Clueless is very, yeah, very of his age.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  It's a time capsule, yeah, nineteen ninety-five.

• 2:07:30Bill Simmons?

  It's very sticky.

• 2:07:31Speaker 03

  But this movie holds on, I think.

• 2:07:32Bill Simmons?

  Thirteen Going on Thirty is not as sticky.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  No. I think also LA has changed in a way in the movie that you can identify so much. Whereas with this movie, New York, they chose, like, kind of timeless locations.

• 2:07:42Bill Simmons?

  The reality is, the soundtrack of this movie will make this a fifty-to-sixty-year run for, for this movie on the streamers.

• 2:07:51Speaker 01

  And because.

• 2:07:51Bill Simmons?

  It's just not gonna go away.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the, the mother-daughter aspect of it. Like, there aren't that many movies like this. I think this is why Gilmore Girls is also so popular, because people can watch it as a young person or with their mom, or then as a mom. Like, when you can capture both ends of, like, that spectrum, it, it lasts a very long time.

• 2:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent. This was great. Juliet, I had a fantastic time. Craig, thank you as always. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and Chris as well. And then we watched both side. We will see you, uh, see you in a week.

• 2:08:34Speaker 04

  Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Your job, your kids, where it's going. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way, because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claud.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claud.ai/spotify.

• 2:08:59Speaker 05

  With Truvia Sweeteners, it's simple to make sweetness part of your routine. From sweetening your creamy morning matcha to freshly baked blueberry scones, Truvia Sweeteners make it easy to enjoy the flavors you love with less sugar per serving. From everyday drinks to homemade favorites, they're made to fit right in. Because with Truvia, every moment tastes better. Find Truvia at your favorite local grocery retailer and bring better sweetness home.