Pod Insights The Rest Is History 597. The First World War: The Massacre of the Innocents (Part 4) About this episode What happened at the crucial, bloody, Battle of Ypres in October 1914? How did the battle come about? Why did the Germans and the British fight each other so brutally and for so long to take Ypres? What made the fighting so particularly violent? How were the British able to repel the relentless German onslaught time after time? What was the famous “Kindermord” - “the Massacre of the Innocents” - in the German army, and how true was it? And, what would be the outcome of this almighty clash?
Join Dominic and Tom as they discuss the terrible Battle of Ypres; its significance to the First World War overall, and its consequences for the rise of Hitler in Germany later on….
______
Try Adobe Express for free now at https://www.adobe.com/uk/express/spotlight/designwithexpress or by searching in the app store.
Explore the world’s most loved stories in their most beautiful form - only at https://www.foliosociety.com/.
Learn more at https://uber.com/onourway
______
Join The Rest Is History Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to every series and live show tickets, a members-only newsletter, discounted books from the show, and access to our private Discord chatroom. Sign up directly at therestishistory.com
For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript 10,457 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:03 Dominic Sandbrook? This episode is brought to you by TikTok. We obviously love history here. It's always a treat to make a new discovery, especially in unexpected ways.
0:12 Tom Holland? Which is exactly what happens on TikTok. Like, you know coffee? You make it, add milk, drink it. Nothing more, except...
0:23 Dominic Sandbrook? Except, when you hop on TikTok, you don't just learn how to make an authentic cappuccino. You can also discover videos about how in the 1700s, people would pour their coffee into saucers to let it cool before drinking it.
0:39 Tom Holland? And suddenly, you're imagining how people lived, drank, socialised. Makes you wonder what will baffle historians about us. And that's the joy of TikTok. You look for one thing and find yourself somewhere completely different.
0:53 Dominic Sandbrook? Your next discovery is waiting on TikTok.
0:57 Tom Holland? Visit tiktok.com/discovermore.
1:05 Tom Holland? This episode is supported by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Now, history's biggest leaps started as hard questions that people didn't want asked.
1:17 Dominic Sandbrook? Yeah, there's a classic example of that at the end of the 15th century. And the hard question in particular was, what is out there beyond the Atlantic Ocean to the west? And as you will know, the man who found the answer to that question was the explorer Christopher Columbus. And he realises, or rather, everybody else realises, that there is a vast continent out there, and it is, of course, the Americas. So Anthropic knows the importance of questions. And it's why Anthropic is founded on one hard question above all. How can we ensure that the AI revolution really goes well for ordinary people?
1:48 Tom Holland? So they asked over 100,000 people, and what came back wasn't just fear, there was hope as well. People wanted to know, will cancer ever be cured? Can kids have a better future? It turns out that there is hope in hard questions.
2:02 Dominic Sandbrook? Ask yours at claude.ai/restishistory and keep thinking.
2:10 Dominic Sandbrook? This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Tom, as you know, I spend all my time working. And in a dream world, I would clone a sort of Tom Holland, who would do all the work for me. But sadly, technology has not advanced to that point. If it did, I wish there was a recruiting company that I could use to hire that clone for me.
2:31 Tom Holland? Well, Dominic, you are in luck. Because if you are hiring, then ZipRecruiter is the great time saver. You can try it free at ziprecruiter.com/history. It shows you qualified candidates almost instantly. So save time with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.
2:59 Dominic Sandbrook? Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/history. That's ziprecruiter.com/history. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.
3:23 Tom Holland? At last they came when we left Munich to begin the fulfillment of our duty. For the first time, I saw the Rhine as we rode westward along its quiet waters to defend this, the German stream of streams from the greed of the old enemy. The old watch on the Rhine roared out of the endless transport train into the morning sky, and I felt as though my heart would burst. And then came a damp, cold night in Flanders, through which we marched in silence. And when the day began to emerge from the mists, suddenly an iron greeting came whizzing at us over our heads. But even before the little cloud had passed,
4:08 Tom Holland? from two hundred throats the first hurrah rose to meet the messenger of death. Then a crackling and a roaring, a singing and a howling began. And with feverish eyes, each one of us was drawn forward faster and faster, until suddenly past fields and hedges, the fight began. The fight of man against man. And from the distance, the strains of a song reached our ears, coming closer and closer, leaping from company to company.
4:46 Tom Holland? And just as death plunged a busy hand into our ranks, the song reached us too and we passed it along. Deutschland, Deutschland, über alles, über alles in der Welt.
5:02 Tom Holland? So I think a very moving passage there, a private in the 16th Bavarian Reserve Regiment, remembering his first brush with the enemy in the autumn of 1914, leaving the Rhine behind, coming up to the mud and the slaughter of Flanders. And anyone who finds themselves at this point brushing away a tear from the eye may be stunned to realise that they've been listening to literally the worst man in history, because that comes from Mein Kampf by a certain A. Hitler. Dominic, the Hitler here is, I mean, he's relatively speaking behaving himself, isn't he? He's actually articulating there the experiences and the feelings of a lot of Germans,
5:47 Tom Holland? and not in a necessarily sinister way.
5:50 Dominic Sandbrook? No, you're absolutely right, Tom. He's a young man who is enthused with the camaraderie and the patriotic commitment that so many Germans took into the First World War. And the story he tells there, which is young men advancing into enemy fire their first time, they're singing the Deutschlandlied, the Song of the Germans. That story became at this point a central element of German patriotic mythology. So the people who first read Mein Kampf. In the middle of the 1920s, they were already very familiar with this story. And the idea became wrapped up with something called the Kindermord, the massacre of the innocents. The idea that there's a generation of young men who, at this particular moment in the autumn of 1914,
6:35 Dominic Sandbrook? at Ypres, they walked into battle, singing their patriotic hymns. And in some versions of the story, the hymn carries them to victory. In other versions, they are cut down as they walk by British machine gun fire. They are sacrificing everything for their beloved fatherland. And they're almost walking willingly with a song on their lips, with a patriotic spirit in their hearts, with a kind of Viking spirit almost, you know, we've done so many stories on this show about the Vikings kind of going into battle singing. So at the time, it was a very compelling and seductive idea. Tom, are you seduced by it?
7:15 Tom Holland? Well, I mean, I think of the parallels with the British who were facing the Germans in this stretch of Flanders. But they have very similar stories, don't they? The idea of doomed youth, sacrifice, all of that framed in different ways.
7:28 Dominic Sandbrook? A Long Way to Tipperary, a song that took off in the final months of 1914. Now, it's all the more powerful, I think, this story because it's set against the backdrop of one of the most compelling battles of the war, which is the first Battle of Ypres. A story full of most extraordinary feats of courage and sacrifice. And we'll be covering some of those today. So we'll come back to the singing a little bit later. But first of all, let's remind ourselves where we got to. The Germans were pushed back from Paris in the Battle of the Marne at the beginning of September. Their commander, Helmut von Molkha, had a breakdown and was replaced by the Serbian Chile-Prussian war minister, Eric von Falkenhayne. The Germans had fallen back behind the River Aisne. They have started to dig in to carve out the first trench networks. And then there has been the so-called Race to the Sea.
8:12 Dominic Sandbrook? Both sides rushing northwards, try to get into the last open bit of territory between the trenches and the English Channel. And the goal is break through this stretch of territory before your enemy can dig in, because then you can outflank him and strike down into his rear. And by the middle of October, this race is really narrowed to a small expanse of the front, the 20 miles that stretch south from the Channel. And there are lots of other battles. So there's a thing called the Battle of Yzere, where the Belgians really distinguished themselves. But today, we're going to look at one single point, probably the most celebrated or... Contested point on the front, which is the town of Ypres. So Ypres was mentioned by the Romans. We don't know what it was called, but they mentioned a town in this place.
8:57 Dominic Sandbrook? And it's a very old town. It was a big cloth town in the Middle Ages. It's mentioned in the Canterbury Tales, Tom. And it was the third biggest town in Flanders after Ghent and Bruges in its heyday. And the symbol of Ypres' importance and its wealth is they have this spectacular Gothic cloth hall built in the 13th century. At the time, it was one of the largest commercial buildings in Europe. And Ypres had changed hands many times. It had been besieged by the English in 1383, captured by Louis XIV in 1678, captured again by the French in the French Revolutionary Wars in 1794. And this time, it's the Germans who want it. Falconheim's plan is that we take Ypres.
9:38 Dominic Sandbrook? It's the perfect base from which to strike west to the Channel ports of Dunkirk, Calais and Boulogne. And if we can take them, we can cut the supply lines from Britain to the British Expeditionary Force. We can cut the links between Britain and France, and that would be, you know, a great step towards winning the war. So he's going to use two armies, the fourth and the sixth German armies, basically to batter their way through. And in their path stand the French Eighth Army and the British Expeditionary Force. So the British first march into Ypres on the 14th of October. And this is the Seventh Division. And this has been cobbled together from across the British Empire. They've just landed from England as reinforcements. So this is the first time they've been to Belgium, these guys.
10:22 Dominic Sandbrook? And they think Ypres is lovely. One officer writes home and he says, "Ypres is rather a nice old town with narrow cobblestone streets and fine buildings and a tremendous lot of priests and nuns. It seems so odd to be fighting in this sort of country." Because, of course, they've come from the Empire. They've been fighting overseas. And they have absolutely no sense of the slaughter that lies ahead for them. Now, I'm sorry to report that Sir John French, the florid commander of the BEF, has not learned his lesson from previous expeditions to Belgium.
10:53 Tom Holland? Oh, that's a shame because he behaved quite well at the Battle of the Marne, didn't he?
10:57 Dominic Sandbrook? He did, but now unfortunately. So. They advance into Flanders and they say, are there going to be some Germans? And he says, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, there'll be no Germans here. I think it's fair to say Sir John French is the, he'd make an excellent pundit on the rest of politics with his, with his grasp of prognostication. So on the advice of the Rory Stewart of the British Expeditionary Force, the 7th Division head east out of the town. And actually at first they say, well, you know, this is actually going to be quite boring. We're getting fed up of all this waiting, a gunner writes, we're anxious to get into action. And so out they go into the celebrated Flanders Fields. So anybody who's done war poetry, all of our British listeners surely would have done
11:42 Dominic Sandbrook? war poetry when, when they were at school, because it's such a staple of the curriculum. It's all kind of a great moonscape of craters. It's kind of Tolkien's Mordor or something. But actually it's not like that at the time at all. Are there lots of poppies? There are poppies, there's loads of poppies. But at this point, they're not identified with, with the war, of course. So there's an Australian writer called Paul Ham, he wrote a brilliant book about 1914. And he describes it very nicely. He says, "The bleak rain-drenched land of gentle hills and ridges, fields of tobacco and beetroot interspersed with hedgerows and barns, spreading into dreary plains seasonally strewn with poppies." They go out into this farmland for about five or six miles. On Sunday, the 18th, they have their first skirmishes with German patrols, but they still don't really know what lies ahead.
12:26 Dominic Sandbrook? And Sir John French says, "Just keep going. The next village is called Passchendaele." I'm sure that's an absolutely delightful place. Definitely never be a battle there. Exactly. The hotness running out of men, there'll be nobody there. And look at all those poppies. We'll never need to use them as a symbol for the futility of war. Sir John French with his unnerving ability to completely mispredict what's happening. The Germans are actually advancing with 14 infantry divisions. Of course they are. The British and French have only seven. The Germans are much fresher, they have their fresh troops, they have twice as many guns, they've got 10 times as much heavy artillery. So textbook Sir John French advice there. On the 19th of October, the Royal Flying Corps head east over the fields and
13:11 Dominic Sandbrook? they come back with bombshell news. They say there are actually loads of Germans and they're only hours away. So the British fall back a little bit.
13:19 Tom Holland? Okay, so this time, John French does actually believe what he's being told. Because previously at Mons, the air force had been up and come back and he said nonsense. So to that extent, he is learning.
13:29 Dominic Sandbrook? I wonder if there's an element, though, of people no longer listening to Sir John French. I mean, certainly I would, if I was one of his officers, I would be sceptical if he advised me of anything. Anyway, the British fall back and they establish themselves on a ridge just east of Ypres. And this is the genesis of something that, you know, if you read books about the First World War, it's always there. It's called the Ypres salient. So a salient is basically just a bulge in your line, sort of bulging outwards.
13:54 Tom Holland? Sticks out.
13:55 Dominic Sandbrook? Sticks out. It's good news because you can sort of maybe penetrate into the enemy lines. It's also bad news because it means they could surround you on three sides and kind of pour fire into you. This salient is going to play a massive part in the British wartime experience. So the next four years, the British are going to expend 200,000 lives to defend this relatively small patch of land. On the 20th of October, the Germans launched their assault, these great grey columns advancing relentlessly towards the salient. The Germans attack very bravely. Actually, they're, these guys are new. They are barely trained reservists.
14:29 Tom Holland? Is Hitler in their ranks?
14:30 Dominic Sandbrook? He's not at this point, no, I don't think.
14:32 Tom Holland? He's waiting in reserve.
14:33 Dominic Sandbrook? He's waiting in the reserve. But there are very heavy casualties, but the Germans don't break through. Now meanwhile, the British have been told, dig in, hold the line. None of them have really proper spades. Some of them have kind of trowels and stuff, but a lot of them are actually digging into the clay of the fields. So these aren't chalk, they're clay. They're digging with their bare hands, and these are the origins of the Epe trenches. The next day, which is the 21st, loads of reinforcements start to arrive, wave upon wave of Germans, but also the first British troops who've come from the Battle of the Aine further to the sort of southwest. And now the struggle for Epe really begins in earnest. So for the next three weeks, the story is basically the British defending the salient.
15:15 Dominic Sandbrook? These are sort of Flemish villages, Zandvoort, Zonnebeke, Langermark, places that if you've ever been to the Western Front, you'll probably recognise. And the Germans just battering away mercilessly, trying to kind of break through. It's very confused, bloody, hand-to-hand fighting, there's shells raining down, there's machine guns blasting away all the time. The Germans, time after time, come really close to breaking through, but always somehow the British were able to push them back.
15:42 Tom Holland? Dominic, is there the crump of guns?
15:44 Dominic Sandbrook? I think there is. Is it a crump or is it a dull thud?
15:47 Tom Holland? I think it's a crump, because I think you're obliged by law, when describing the Western Front, to use the word crump.
15:53 Dominic Sandbrook? It's very much kind of Wilfred Owen kind of territory. Now, all the time, the bodies are piling up, especially, I have to say, the Germans. So the Germans' officers are hurling them forward in these kind of incredibly brave suicidal assaults. And actually, for the British, we always think of all the British as the victims in all this, but the British, they say it's like being in a shooting gallery.
16:11 Tom Holland? Surely like a pheasant shoot? Of the kind that Franz Ferdinand and the Kaiser and George V that everybody enjoyed?
16:17 Dominic Sandbrook? Well, remember, they, because Franz Ferdinand was unfortunately killed, they missed out on that brilliant weekend that they were going to have together.
16:23 Tom Holland? But for British sportsmen, this is, I mean, you know, shoot a German rather than a pheasant, it must be the attitude.
16:29 Dominic Sandbrook? Well, since you do the voice of a well-educated British sportsman, say, well, Tom, perhaps you'd like to read to everybody what Captain Henry Dillon wrote to his parents. I mean, imagine writing this to your parents about a German night attack on the 24th of October.
16:42 Tom Holland? "The great grey mouse of humanity was charging straight on to us, not 50 yards off. As I fired my rifle, the rest all went off, almost simultaneously. I have never shot so much in such a short time. My right hand is one huge bruise from banging the bolt up and down." The firing died down and out of the darkness a great moan came. People with their arms and legs off trying to crawl away. Others who could not move gasping out their last moments with the cold night wind biting into their broken bodies and the lurid red glare of a farmhouse showing up clumps of grey devils killed by the men on my left further down. A weird, awful scene. So, a hideous shooting party.
17:22 Dominic Sandbrook? A hideous shooting party and weirdly that he would, that he would write to his parents about it. Anyway, different times. Now, for the Germans, it's an indescribable horror. So Max Hastings quotes this bloke from Württemberg called Paul Hub. He's been fighting for a village called Gelhewelt, which we'll come back to. And he writes to his wife and he says, "My dear Maria, I've lived through such horror recently, no words can describe it. Every day the fighting gets fiercer and there's still no end in sight. Our blood is flowing in torrents, all around me the most gruesome devastation. I didn't think war would be like this."
17:54 Tom Holland? And there must be a lot of people who are thinking that by this point.
17:59 Dominic Sandbrook? Oh, yeah. Yeah, those, I mean, basically, everybody at this point says, "This is definitely not what we signed up for. This is a new kind of warfare. Machine guns, shells, mud, rain, barbed wire. This is not the sort of romantic adventure that I had dreamed of as a boy or anything like that." On the 30th of October, the German offensive reaches a crescendo. Falconhein has now brought in a new army group, new troops, hundreds of heavy guns and howitzers. The Germans now have a two to one advantage. The classic sort of Western Front scene. The bombardment starts at dawn, an absolute kind of storm of shell fire. Then at 6:30, the German infantry go in. Slowly but surely, it seems like they're going to break through.
18:41 Dominic Sandbrook? They take the chateau Zandvoorder, they drive back the Haushold cavalry. But, as always, this is the absolute story of the Western Front.
18:51 Dominic Sandbrook? Halfway through the day, it looks like they're going to win, and then their offensive falters, they ran out of steam, and somehow the British were able to hold out and push them back. And that night, the German commanders are told, well, just do the same again the next day, do it again tomorrow. And one of them says to his colonel, he says, excuse me, Herr Oberst, the word battalion has been mentioned. We in the centre no longer have a battalion. The men have been in battle for 48 hours and they have had no sleep for three nights. In other words, we're falling apart. And the colonel goes ballistic and he says, do you say impossible? There is no such thing as impossible. We're all soldiers, we must accept the risk of death. And so it is, on the 31st of October, it starts all over again. And the military historian JP Harris says, this is one of the most critical days fighting,
19:35 Dominic Sandbrook? not merely of 1914, but of the entire war. Because the British at this point are really on their last legs. A decade or so later, the official historian of the British Expeditionary Force famously said, they were a thin line of tired, haggard and unshaven men, unwashed, plastered with mud, many in little more than rags, all that stood between the British Empire and ruin. So again, another relentless barrage. And then in come all these waves of the kind of grey German uniforms. And this time, the epicentre of it is this village called Gelliwelt. And there's so many Germans that they're pretty much irresistible.
20:17 Dominic Sandbrook? And by about 12:30, they have forced pretty much all the British troops to fall back. There's just one unit left, and that's the first South Wales borderers who are defending the chateau at Gelliwelt under overwhelming fire. And their colonel, who's called Henry Burley Leach, he sends a message and he says, I desperately need help because Gelliwelt is lost. Now, at this point... This is probably as close as the British ever came on the Western Front to complete panic and disintegration. Later on, years after the war, the corps commander, who was called Douglas Hague, he later told George V, he said, "I remember the crowds of fugitives who came back down the Menin Road, having thrown away everything they could, including their rifles
21:00 Dominic Sandbrook? and packs, in order to escape, with a look of absolute terror on their faces, such as I have never before seen on any human being's face." So it looks like the British are going to collapse. And the corps goes out, "We need reinforcements desperately." And there's only one unit held in reserve that can get there, and they are the Second Wusters. And the Wusters are kind of your classic, old-fashioned county regiment, you know, sort of men with moustaches, all this. There are fewer than 400 of them. They'd fought very bravely a few days earlier, so they've been told they're going to be resting. They're not being put into the line. As one of them later said, "They're dog-tired, cold, wet, plastered with mud. They haven't washed or shaved for days." And at 1 o'clock, they're told, "Actually,
21:44 Dominic Sandbrook? you know what? You're not resting. We need you." They're brought forward to the front line. They're given some rum and some stew. And they're told, "You have to fight to the chateau." Maybe the South Wales border is still there, maybe they're not, but basically if they are, you've got to save them. You've got to get to this chateau. And it's a terrifying prospect, because they have to cross these open fields, they have to cross a stream, they're under enemy shellfire, there's no cover. They've got to get to this chateau and save the British Empire, these 400 blokes. So at 1:45, they fix their bayonets, and their major, who's called Edward Hankey, says, "Come on, lads, let's just go for it." So they charge across this field. There's horrendous German fire coming at them. About
22:25 Dominic Sandbrook? 100 of them are hit, killed or wounded. The rest of them just keep going. They go over this stream, they go over a railway line, they go over some hedges, and then they're through a wire fence. And then, and I quote, "We cut through it as best we could. At length, the chateau grounds, and there was the Hun right enough. But we had surprised him. He hadn't seen us coming. There was a cheer, and we charged." And that's not me talking, Tom, it's Captain Boucher Campbell-Senhouse-Clark. Great name, great guy. So the Germans are swept from the field because they weren't expecting these blokes to turn up. Major Hankey, of course, blows his hunting horn.
23:05 Dominic Sandbrook? And the South Wales borderers who'd been there all the time, holding out in the chateau, they emerged from the chateau. Hurrah, great scenes. And then I think one of the great moments in all history, Major Hankey realizes that Colonel Leach is an old friend of his from his hunting days. And he says, well, they'd been to, I think, one of them had been to Eton and the other had been to Uppingham, but they'd surely played each other.
23:29 Tom Holland? Well, maybe gone fox hunting.
23:31 Dominic Sandbrook? Maybe they'd gone fox hunting, exactly. Anyway, Major Hankey holds out his hand to Colonel Leach and he says the most British thing in history. He says, my God, fancy meeting you here.
23:40 Dominic Sandbrook? So it's a great victory, Tom, I'm happy to say, for historic public schools. But also, it's a great victory for the British Empire. Because the really outstanding figure of the day, 31st of October, 1914, is a machine gunner who was stationed in the nearby village of Hollabeka. Now, he was part of a six-man unit and they'd come under unrelenting fire. He was hit in the arm, he was hit in the leg, but he kept on fighting. His sergeant was killed, the four other men in the unit were killed, so now it's just him. And he's surrounded by the lifeless bodies of his mates. He fights on. He's in danger of being overrun by the Germans. So at the last minute, he disables the gun and he crawls away to safety under German fire.
24:24 Dominic Sandbrook? And this bloke's name was Kudadad Khan. And he'd been born in 1888 in the Punjab, which was then British India, now Pakistan. He'd enlisted in the Duke of Conor's own Baluchis in August 1914. And he's one of one and a half million Indians, and indeed, 400,000 Muslims who fought for Britain. And after this battle, Kudadad Khan was shipped home to Brighton, where the Brighton Pavilion had been converted into a hospital for the Indian Army.
24:57 Tom Holland? Was that because they thought that the Brighton Pavilion would remind the Indian troops of India?
25:03 Dominic Sandbrook? Do you know, I don't know. I've often wondered that. Surely, surely must have played a part. I mean, it's a very convenient building, but surely it must have played a part. And the Brighton Pavilion, I think it had different sections for kind of Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and whatnot. It was all very carefully kind of planned. Anyway, when this bloke recovered, he was invited to Buckingham Palace to receive the Victoria Cross from George V, and he was the first Muslim ever to win it.
25:30 Tom Holland? Harakat from Quedat Khan, from the Worcester's, from their comrades, from the guy with the hunting horn, the whole set. And the drama is that, I'm guessing, the British hold on, that they, they maintain the, the eep salient, whether it's a triangle, or a square, or a circle, we haven't absolutely decided, but we've definitely decided that tremendous heroism has been shown, and that's the key thing. But Dominic, I'm guessing the Germans haven't given up.
25:58 Dominic Sandbrook? No, and after the break, Tom, they will make another attempt.
26:02 Tom Holland? They will throw the dice one last time.
26:09 Tom Holland? This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. So go to mintmobile.com/history.
26:22 Dominic Sandbrook? Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months, plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB of hotspot, capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.
26:50 Tom Holland? This episode is brought to you by AutoTrader. Now, if car shopping feels like a massive faff, buying your car online at AutoTrader makes it way easier, really.
27:01 Dominic Sandbrook? So you can shop loads and loads of cars online, you can compare prices, you can check the financing and trade-in options, and of course, you can do it from wherever you are. You start online, go to the dealer for your test drive, and finish wherever works for you. Your information, your data stays with you, so there is no starting over. Plus, you are working with local dealers, and there are real people there to help.
27:27 Tom Holland? So buy your car online on AutoTrader, really.
27:32 Speaker 02 Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound Terzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains Terzepatide and should not be used with other Terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles.
28:14 Speaker 02 Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulphonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.
28:54 Speaker 02 Call 1-800-545-5979, or visit zepbound.lily.com.
29:06 Tom Holland? Welcome back to The Rest Is History. Dominic, as ever, we left listeners on a cliffhanger. The Germans are about to roll the dice again. How did the dice fall?
29:16 Dominic Sandbrook? So we're now into November. The weather has definitely turned. It's pouring with rain, it's very cold, the trenches are kind of knee-deep in mud. And on the 5th of November, Germanist Supreme Commander Erich von Falkenhayne says, "One more go." And he orders a new wave of assaults on the Ypres Salient, and they're battering again and again away at these lines with a colossal loss of life. Both sides now are really running on empty. The frontline officers are begging all the time, "My men need to rest." There's a real weariness to it. And a sense of if there was any last vestige of romance about this, it has long since disappeared. So Max Hastings tells the story of the German one hundred and forty third infantry.
30:00 Dominic Sandbrook? They went down the Menin Road, this this sort of crucial road with their regimental band playing Deutschland uber alles, the song that we began with. And British fire ripped into them. Lots of the musicians were killed and they were forced backwards. And when they got back, the band were all ordered, hand over your instruments, you won't be using those again. And they were told, you know, your days of, you know, blowing trumpets are over, you have to retrain as stretcher bearers. And as Max Hastings says, it feels like a very symbolic moment, kind of handing over your trumpet and being given a stretcher. There are a couple more days of punishing assaults on the 10th and the 11th. Falconhead's last attempt, really, a massive artillery bombardment. Yet again, he throws thousands of men down this Menin Road.
30:44 Dominic Sandbrook? A couple of places, the Germans briefly break through, but the British were able to sort of plug the gaps. Again, there are countless kind of really haunting stories. So one of them is, there's a guy called William Holbrook, who's a corporal in the Royal Fusiliers, and his platoon were pinned down in no man's land. And at one point, he said, a German officer crawled out of the bushes and said in perfect English, I am wounded. And the Fusiliers lieutenant shouted, great banter, he shouted, you shouldn't make these bloody attacks, then you wouldn't get wounded. And everybody laughs. And then a bullet smacks into the lieutenant's head and blows it off. So they're not laughing now. And later, Holbrook crawls into a crater, a shell crater for cover.
31:25 Dominic Sandbrook? And in it, he finds a German wounded German soldier who begs him for water in German. Holbrook gives him some water. The bloke drinks this water and it just pours out of a hole in his side. And the German holds up three fingers and he says to Holbrook, kleiner Kinder, meaning I've got three small children. And then Holbrook just sits with him until this bloke dies. And then when darkness falls, he crawls back to the British lines. And there are loads of stories like this. Anyway. This day ends like all the others. The Germans almost break through, but they haven't quite. And by now, both sides have run out of shells and the men just can't go on. And the weather is now so awful, howling winds, blizzards of snow, that mass assaults
32:08 Dominic Sandbrook? are just completely unrealistic. And the fighting sort of drags on in a very desultory way until about the 25th of November, when Falkenhayne says to, he issues an order to all German forces in the West. Okay, we're done for the year. Hold your ground, dig in, and we'll wait until the thaw comes in the new year.
32:26 Tom Holland? By this point, have both the Germans and the French and the British dug trenches all the way to the coast?
32:33 Dominic Sandbrook? Yes, the trench lines now are complete. So they run from the coast effectively all the way down to the Swiss border. I know you, of course, Tom, would go through Switzerland.
32:43 Tom Holland? Yes, the unimaginative German High Command have failed to seize that opportunity.
32:48 Dominic Sandbrook? They have failed to seize it. So, Eip has been a victory for the Allies, no question. They've kept Eip, although it's been completely reduced to rubble, the cloth hall in ruins, whatever. They've kept the Channel ports. They've kept this salient to the east, although this is now, means it's going to come for the next four years under unrelenting fire from the German guns.
33:08 Tom Holland? And presumably already by this point, it's just mud.
33:10 Dominic Sandbrook? Yeah, exactly. Been churned up into nothing. But the cost is enormous. So out of 160,000 men that the British had, they've lost about 60,000 killed, wounded, and missing. So that's a casualty rate of more than 30%. Unsustainable in the long run. The Belgians have lost a third of their army. The French at Eip alone have lost 50,000 men. And the German losses at Eip, they lost 140,000 men at Eip, most of them wounded or missing, but 25,000.
33:39 Tom Holland? And that's because they're the ones doing the attacking?
33:41 Dominic Sandbrook? They're the ones doing the attacking. The attacking is what gets you. And this is obviously just a fraction of the total death toll. So to give you a sense, the British in four months, and don't forget the British are by far the smallest army. They have lost 90,000 men, killed, wounded and captured. So many officers, it's often, you know, this thing about lions led by donkeys, it's actually the officers who take most of the casualties because they're leading from the front. So, so many officers from aristocratic families have died. Forty seven people have died who were heirs to aristocratic titles. That John Buckland said that reading the casualty lists in the Times was like scanning the death roll after Agincourt or Flodden. In other words, the flower of the nobility
34:23 Dominic Sandbrook? has been destroyed. And in fact, the BEF generally, the old BEF that had sailed to France and that, you know, they'd been kind of joshing with people at railway stations and accepting gifts of flowers, that's pretty much been destroyed. You know, huge numbers of those men have been killed or wounded. And so at home, Kitchener, the war minister, is now raising what becomes imaginatively to be called the new army.
34:48 Tom Holland? But not the new model army.
34:49 Dominic Sandbrook? Not the new model army. That would have been a grey name.
34:51 Tom Holland? And so this is when his recruiting poster starts to go up.
34:54 Dominic Sandbrook? Exactly. So there's a huge recruitment drive now. But of course, that's Britain. But for the French and the Germans, the casualties are far higher. Each of those combatants has lost about half a million men, killed, wounded or captured. And for the Germans, who were particularly keen to get this done and dusted quickly because they're so anxious about the Allied manpower advantage, obviously the Russians, this is particularly worrying. And so this, I think, starts to explain the story we began with. The young men singing as they go into battle. This idea of the Kindermauer, the death of the children. So in Britain, it's usually translated as the massacre of the innocents. Tom, you'll know
35:38 Dominic Sandbrook? all about this. This is your bailiwick. Biblical massacres.
35:41 Tom Holland? Yes, the children being massacred on the orders of Herod, which we talked about in our episode on the origins of the blood libel.
35:47 Dominic Sandbrook? Exactly. So I guess you could call this a meme, a cultural artifact that goes through loads of different variations as it spreads. And it spreads in the last days of the Battle of Ypres, and then it gathers momentum. And by the time Hitler borrowed it, so he's writing Mein Kampf in 1924, at that point, he's basically ripping it off because it was familiar to every thinking German. It's become a hallowed part of their national wartime mythology.
36:12 Tom Holland? I said, what's the thinking? Is Hitler making, I mean, is Hitler's reminiscences authentic? Or is he molding them to suit the form of the myth? Or what's going on?
36:22 Dominic Sandbrook? I think there probably isn't an inter authenticity in them, actually. I think he's undoubtedly molding them as people do. But as we will see, a lot of German historians now hate this story. And they say this story is pure, it's sinister propaganda. But as we will see, there is a definite element of truth to it. So the most common version of the meme is that the date is given as the 10th of November, and it's heavy fog and a German unit is advancing on the village of Langermark. And these are student volunteers, so the story goes. They're so young that their comrades have nicknamed them the Children's Corps. And they're advancing through the fog and the British open fire at them, scything through their ranks. The survivors, these young lads, drop to the ground, they're paralyzed with fear.
37:06 Dominic Sandbrook? Then one of them starts to sing Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles. And then another joins in and then another. And then as one, they get up and they start to run at the enemy trenches, ignoring the enemy fire. A lot of them lost their helmets, but they don't care, they just keep going. One account says they are like unreal figures from an old saga. And in some versions, they storm the British trenches, but more typically they're shot down one by one. And the song finally fades away. And so you can sort of see why, you know, a nation raised on Richard Wagner and inspiring stories of Teutonic knights are gonna love this story.
37:45 Tom Holland? I mean, what's interesting about it, it prefigures what is, what in Britain is probably the most famous myth that arises from the first world of the lot, which is the Christmas truce. And again, there is that idea of a lone voice starting to sing a song, then other voices picking up then. And then this is a story of peace rather than of war. But again, there is the thing that at the end, the singing fades away and the guns start firing again. And it has the same kind of rhythm, doesn't it?
38:13 Dominic Sandbrook? That hadn't occurred to me actually, but I think that's a really good point. So it's very tempting to say, well, this is obviously made up. It's obviously pure propaganda. But actually, there's a guy called Robert Cowley, who's done brilliant detective work on this. And I commend his article in the Military History Quarterly. So in this article, he traces this story to an official, a German army bulletin, which was printed the next day, the 11th of November, and ended up on loads of newspaper front pages. And the newspaper's story said, "West of Langermark, youthful regiments stormed the first lines of the enemy trenches and took them, singing Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles." Now, actually, as he points out, we know this didn't happen. No volunteer units captured Allied trenches at Langermark that day.
38:57 Dominic Sandbrook? So that's why a lot of German historians now, and you can completely see why, they dismiss this whole story. And they say, "This is a nationalistic fantasy, it's a prefiguring of Nazism, blah, blah, blah." But actually, Cowley says, "You know what? There are loads of Allied accounts of Germans singing as they go into battle. There's one at Zonnebecker on the 21st of October. A British soldier says, 'Germans came at us, singing, waving their rifles. We shot them down, but they were incredibly brave.' The next day, 22nd of October, the Gloucesters, they fought a German volunteer unit. They advanced with the utmost determination, singing patriotic songs and suffered appalling casualties." And there are two accounts by a French colonel called Henri Collat, near a place called Big Shooter.
39:39 Dominic Sandbrook? He says, "First of all, a load of Germans advanced, singing, and we drove them off. They left a great number of corpses." And then on the 16th of October, and I quote, "The young German recruits advanced shoulder to shoulder in a column, four men abreast, and singing Deutschland, uber alles. It was crazy. The human cost meant nothing to them." So the Allies aren't going to be making this stuff up. And Robert Cowley says, "What's going on here?" He says, "These are not blokes who are singing because they're suffused with a kind of Viking spirit to give their lives for their country." Actually, what's happened is, these are volunteers who Falcon Heinrich has thrown into the meat grinder. They have been very hastily trained, then rushed to the front.
40:24 Dominic Sandbrook? They are not really ready for what's coming at them. They're overwhelmed by the horror of it. They're probably singing for two reasons. One, to keep panic at bay, to desperately try to keep their spirits up. And number two, because the weather has changed, it's become very rainy and very foggy, and they're singing, as a lot of units did of all sides, to identify themselves to other units so they're not shot by friendly fire. So in other words, this is not really a story about great melodramatic patriotic enthusiasm. It's a one that expresses the terror and confusion of young men at the front. Now, the other thing Robert Cowley says is, first of all, it's probable that a lot of them are not singing Deutschland über Alice.
41:08 Dominic Sandbrook? They're probably singing the song that Hitler mentions at the beginning of that passage, which is "Die Vacht am Rhein," "The Watch on the Rhine." That was the most popular German marching song. And the other thing, they're not children. They're not even students. Only one in five of these volunteers were students. They're actually just ordinary Germans. We'll come back to why they start to be referred to as students. Finally, it doesn't happen at Langermark. Why does the story end up being located here and here? Cowley has this brilliant explanation, which is just so simple. He says, "In German, to a German ear, most of these other villages have very unglamorous names. So Big Schutte doesn't sound like a place for a kind of Wagnerian self-immolation.
41:52 Dominic Sandbrook? But Langermark does." He quotes a former volunteer who was writing in 1933, who said of Langermark, "The name sounds like a heroic legend." So in other words, the story was placed here because it sounded really good. So how does the story come to play such a massive part in German propaganda? Obviously, the colossal loss of life is an important bit of the context, but there are two things about EPR in particular. Number one, More than any other battle in 1914, this feels like a total waste of lives. Because Falcon Heinz has thrown thousands of men basically into the inferno and they haven't broken through.
42:30 Tom Holland? And this will become the prototype for the First World War battle that endures to this day, this image of mass slaughter that serves no purpose at all.
42:40 Dominic Sandbrook? Exactly, because if you think about all the battles we've talked about so far, Monges or the Battle of the Frontiers or, you know, Le Cato or especially the Marne, people are moving quite a lot. You know, the frontline is ebbing and flowing, right, quite quickly. But here, the frontline is stuck and people are sort of charging and they're being shot down and then the next day they're trying again. And this is going to be the theme, isn't it, till 1918?
43:04 Tom Holland? But for the British, they have not yet picked up on this theme because presumably for them, Ypres is a thermopylae that holds.
43:13 Dominic Sandbrook? Yeah, it's defensive.
43:14 Tom Holland? It's a defensive battle in which the defenders are massively outnumbered and yet the overwhelming force of the attackers can't break through. So is it the Somme that teaches them the lesson that the Germans have already learnt in 1914?
43:27 Dominic Sandbrook? I think so. I think if you talk to a lot of British military historians now, they will say that basically what happens in the next few years is a learning curve. And the French finally figure it out in 1918, they win. But it takes a long time to get to that point. Going back to Ypres, the impact of that slaughter falls disproportionately on the Germans and on their reserve divisions of their young volunteers, divisions which actually end up losing about half their men. So as these stories go back to Germany, the newspapers in Germany are craving a bit of good news, a story that gives their sacrifice a deeper meaning. So a story that will both inspire the men who are still in the trenches, but it will also reassure people back home. And so that is why this idea of the sacrifice at Langermark has such traction.
44:14 Dominic Sandbrook? On the first anniversary of when this is supposed to have happened, which is the 10th of November, so in 1915, all the German papers celebrated the day of Langermark and they said it should become a national day of remembrance. Of course, the irony is that it's the next day, the 11th, that in the long run becomes the day of remembrance across Europe. And once Germany lost the war in 1918, the idea of the Kindermord becomes incredibly powerful because it fits perfectly with the stab in the back legend. So it's our brave boys went singing into battle, but in the long run, they were betrayed by communists and Jews and social democrats and, you know, civilian politicians and so on.
44:55 Tom Holland? So in this idea of it as a massacre of the innocents, it's not so much the British who are playing the part of Herod in this narrative. It's the evil, I suppose, the Jews most obviously because Herod was Jewish, but the guys back home who are profiteering.
45:11 Dominic Sandbrook? Yeah, I think so. In the long run, certainly by the 1920s, when this story is being told, it's not an anglophobic story. In other words, the British are just doing their job, firing their machine guns. But the real villains are the people who betrayed these young men. I think that's absolutely part of it. So in the 1920s, it's very popular with veterans groups, like the Steel Helmets, nationalistic veterans groups, but also student groups, who as we know are also very nationalistic in the 1920s and 30s. And it's given extra oomph by two things. So first of all, in 1922, the Deutschlandlied, Deutschland, Deutschland, Überall, was adopted as the anthem of the Weimar Republic. Before this, it had not been the German anthem. The German anthem was something called Hail Dear Im Siegerkranz,
45:54 Dominic Sandbrook? Hail to Thee with the Victor's Crown. It was a kind of imperial anthem. And then in 1932, a huge German cemetery with more than 44,000 bodies was dedicated at Langermark. 1932, of course, we know what's going to happen the following year, the advent of the Third Reich. And for Hitler and the Nazis, this story, it just seemed brilliant. It ticked every box for them. Youth, patriotism, struggle, sacrifice. And the point about the student element is that students are such an important part of Hitler's coalition. Students love the Nazis. They can't wait to do a book burning. So. When the Nazis get in, this story, this one moment, becomes
46:39 Dominic Sandbrook? terrorist's sacral date.
46:41 Tom Holland? I think you absolutely can, yeah, in the Nazi religion. And I suppose also the fact that Hitler had been a participant in the First Battle of Ypres. I mean, it sanctifies him with the memory of these soldiers who had died.
46:57 Dominic Sandbrook? I mean, who can say whether Hitler was ever in an offensive where people sang songs? Well, I mean, it's perfectly plausible that he could have been. And I mean, there is a degree of cynicism to this, but I think if you had asked him, if you'd had been having tea with a Fuhrer like your mate, what's her name, Unity Mitford, then he would have said that it did happen and he would probably have believed that it happened, even if it didn't, you know, he'd have convinced himself that he was part of it. It would be part of his personal mythology of his involvement in the First World War, which plays such a huge part in his psychology. Anyway, from 1933, this was the day in which students were traditionally inducted into the Nazi Party, the 10th of November, and every member of the Hitler Youth had to pay
47:38 Dominic Sandbrook? a levy called the Langermarkfennig, the Langermark penny. Robert Cowley in his article quotes a Nazi propagandist, "National socialism and Langermark are one and the same." So, to go back to 1914, when people find out you're a historian and a subject of the First World War comes up, people often ask this question, why did they carry on? Why at the end of 1914 didn't they just all stop and agree to go home? And I think this story actually in some ways helps to answer that because the point is the scale of the slaughter and the sacrifice makes it harder to stop the war because you've sacrificed so many young men that it has to mean something. You know, it can't all have been for nothing.
48:23 Dominic Sandbrook? The sacrifice must have been worth some kind of existential goal. The other thing I think about this question is that it's actually based on a false premise, which is that when people ask, why on earth do they keep going? The implication is, didn't they realise at this point that it was all for nothing? That it was all futile? You know, I think you used the word futile earlier, didn't you, when you were saying about the perception of futile attacks and the futile war and stuff? But the French and the Germans are the two most heavily committed countries. They don't think it's futile at all. So if you're French, right, at this point, end of 1914, you haven't got our assassin Lorraine back. And what's worse, the Germans have taken another 10th of your territory. They've taken a sixth of your manufacturing industry. They've taken all of your iron and steel. They've got eight million acres of your most fertile farmland.
49:09 Dominic Sandbrook? Of course, you're not going to stop. You know, it's like saying to the Ukrainians, why don't you stop? Of course, you're not going to stop when they've got your territory. And as for the Germans, they went into this thinking this was life or death. Right. That's what Molka thought. It's what the Kaiser thought. It's what Beterman Holvegg thought. And so they still think that. Of course, they still think it. A lot of people have died. They've got the French and the Russians in arms on both sides of them. They think, but of course, we're not going to just go home because actually, you know, Tom, we know what happens when they lost. Yeah, it wasn't good. Yeah. So they're thinking, of course, we've got to keep going and try to win somehow. But of course, what they all know now is that this is going to be very long and very brutal. So you mentioned this already in the American football. So our American listeners will enjoy this.
49:53 Dominic Sandbrook? They have a, they have a saying that defense wins championships. And this is true of the First World War as much as it is of their ludicrous game. Because if you attack, right? The lesson of the Schlieffen Plan is you will probably outrun your supply lines. You'll get exhausted and then you'll be vulnerable. And actually, even on a small scale, if you attack, you'll probably end up stuck on some barbed wire, being riddled with machine gun bullets while a shell lands on your head. So in other words, both sides are basically, well, we're going to have to fight a kind of defensive strategy. They're digging in deep trenches, sandbanks, all this kind of thing. And for older commanders who've known different kinds of war, this is a real shock.
50:34 Dominic Sandbrook? So Kitchener said a few months later, I just don't know what is to be done. This isn't war as I understand it. You could say, oh, ha, ha, you know, look at this old man completely clapped out and integrated. But that's very unfair. He was born in 1850. He'd fought in Egypt and in the Sudan. He'd won the Battle of Omdun, hadn't he? He had. How could he possibly know? How could you possibly work out? You know, with that experience, how you're going to win a war like this, which is unprecedented.
51:01 Tom Holland? I mean, I suppose if the Mahdi had had machine guns as well.
51:05 Dominic Sandbrook? Might have been a different story.
51:06 Tom Holland? It might have been a different story and he might have had time to think about it.
51:09 Dominic Sandbrook? Do you know what? Every podcast we ever do is in danger of degenerating into a podcast about General Gordon.
51:13 Tom Holland? I know, he's always lurking in the background.
51:15 Dominic Sandbrook? Yes, he lives rent free in our heads, as the youngsters say. Right, so we started with the Germans, let's end with them. Now, you might expect them to be completely despondent because they've been told all this time that the Schlieffen-Molka Plan is the only way they're going to win. On the other side, they're entrenched in French and Belgian territory. They can stay where they are, they can focus on defence. And their hope obviously is that the Entente, that the Allies, will wear themselves out in attacking them and eventually will come to the negotiating table. But the Germans really do need that to happen quite soon, probably in the next year or so.
51:48 Tom Holland? So just a question, if this had happened, say the French and the British had opened negotiations. If they'd said, look, this is hopeless, we're all going to bleed to death. What terms do you think might have been arrived at?
52:00 Dominic Sandbrook? It's just an impossible question, isn't it?
52:02 Tom Holland? Do you think that to sue for terms would have been a kind of admission of defeat?
52:06 Dominic Sandbrook? I think so. If you go to negotiate, say, please can we talk about this? You look weak, don't you?
52:11 Tom Holland? Well, I just, whether you frame it and saying, look, you know, we are spilling the blood of young men across Europe. There is no way out of this, you know, it's like abandoning a test match where you can't force a victory. To use the kind of thing that Lionel Tennyson would have said.
52:29 Dominic Sandbrook? But here's the thing, Tom, we mentioned Ukraine earlier on, right? And there's lots of talk right now when we're recording this, you know, people are always saying, should they have a ceasefire, should they, blah, blah, blah. Ukrainians would say, the Russians are in possession of quite a bit of our territory, we'll talk to them when we've got rid of them, basically. Why should we just agree to stop?
52:46 Tom Holland? Well, that's the key question, isn't it? Would the Germans have been willing? To withdraw, say, from German-held France.
52:54 Dominic Sandbrook? So this is the thing. I think the French would say, we're not prepared to talk to these guys until they get out of our territory. And the Germans would say, well, why would we get out of our territory when this is the one card that we have? So I think it's difficult to imagine how those talks really, I certainly don't think there's going to be Franco-German talks. I mean, again, the British are pretty committed at this point, I think.
53:15 Tom Holland? Well, they've lost a lot of men as well.
53:18 Dominic Sandbrook? The problem is, has all that sacrifice been for nothing? How on earth are you going to sell that to your population to say, tens, hundreds of thousands of men, but actually we've all made a bit of a mistake? I think that's really hard to imagine.
53:31 Tom Holland? But it would have been the best thing to do.
53:33 Dominic Sandbrook? Well, it would have been, and of course, later in the war, in particular, there are people who start to make this case, right? There are quite brave people who say, come on, I'm not sure this, persisting with this is the right idea, but in 1914, I don't think there's any serious possibility of it happening. The interesting thing, actually, Tom, is that somebody who agrees with you to some degree is Eric von Falkenhayne. So on the 18th of November, basically when the Ypres was lost, he said to the German Chancellor Bethmann-Holweg, he said, I don't think we can win this on the battlefield and we should start thinking about a political solution. And Falkenhayne's idea was that basically you choose one of Russia or France, ideally Russia, and you strike a separate peace with them.
54:15 Dominic Sandbrook? And he said, and I quote, and he's totally right, if Russia, France and England hold together, we cannot defeat them in such a way as to achieve acceptable peace terms, we're more likely to be slowly exhausted. That, of course, is exactly what happens. But Bethmann-Holweg says no, and he says no for two reasons. Number one, he says, how on earth would we sell this to the German people? They will never stand for it in a million years. It'd be political, it'd be suicide for the entire governing elite of Germany. And secondly, Bethmann-Holweg is looking to the east. Because on the eastern front, the war has been unfolding very differently. This has been, there's not trenches, it's a story of these huge armies wandering
54:56 Dominic Sandbrook? across this huge landscape of grasslands and marshes and the front lines are always changing.
55:01 Tom Holland? So it's a kind of Great Northern War.
55:03 Dominic Sandbrook? It is much more Great Northern War. And on the eastern front, the Germans have found two new heroes who they think might hold the key to victory. And these people are Paul von Hindenburg and Eric Ludendorff. They are the victors of the Battle of Tannenberg. And to anyone who knows about the rise of the Nazis, they are very, very familiar names. And Tom will be telling their story next time.
55:29 Tom Holland? Okay, well, members of the Rest is History Club can hear those episodes right now, of course. And if you'd like to join them, if you're not a member of the Rest is History Club already, then you can sign up at therestishistory.com. But for now, bida zain.
55:43 Dominic Sandbrook? Alfi zain.
55:54 Speaker 03 Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.
56:24 Speaker 04 Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.
56:54 Speaker 05 As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Balmain, Clinique or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in-store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty, the
Previous 596. The First World War: The Miracle on the Marne (Part 3) Next 598. The First World War: The Eastern Front Explodes (Part 5) Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
