Picking Our England XI vs Spain

Is a positive result against Spain the perfect way for England to move on from the disappointment of their World Cup semi-final defeat to Argentina? Is Thomas Tuchel’s latest England squad an admission that things went wrong in the summer? Gary, Alan & Micah pick their England starting XI to face Spain on Saturday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to The Rest is Football with Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and me, Gary Lineker. The international break is upon us and England have got a few games coming up, probably most notably against Spain of course, the current world champions. Do you like international breaks or do you not like international breaks?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Well, as a player or a pundit?

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Both, that was it.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Either or, either or?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  As a player, yeah, I love the international breaks. As a pundit, I also love the international breaks because we don't do any live TV, so we can have a bit of time off. So yeah, I do love them. I was really interested in some of Tuchel's comments over the last few days.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  Such as?

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Well, when he said about 99.9% of people just want to talk about Mexico and Croatia and whatever, they don't want to talk about substitutions in the Argentina game. And I'm thinking, I'm not sure that's the case.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I thought that was a complete nonsense. Absolutely everyone was talking about that at the time and everyone had their question marks about his substitutions and then to just dismiss it. And no, it was just the only thing that people remember, a couple of goals against Croatia and that great game against Mexico. But yeah, I thought that was a bit odd.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  He's trying to deflect, isn't he? He knows full well. He was brought in to win the competition. What are we even talking about here?

• 1:40Speaker 00

  It's not easy though.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  But we're talking about the situation as his comments. So he's done exactly what we want him to, you know, what he knows we're all going to do. I think the Mexico game was amazing. It really was. And it was one of the best, especially in my lifetime, with the boys to go to Azteca and do what they did. So he's right. But on the other hand, he was brought in to win the World Cup, wasn't he? As simple as that. And it wasn't just, it wasn't just the formation that was took off goal and then he and then brought on the defender. It wasn't just that. It was the belief of the players. So we could talk about systems all we want, can't we? And I like to delve, as we all do, like into the systems

• 2:26Speaker 01

  and the tactics and all that sort of stuff. But also, no matter what players you have on the pitch, even when we was under the cosh, the whole team was back, no matter what players you got there. His job is, regardless of the system, is to push the team up the field anyway. You know what I mean? Regardless if you're going at five at the back, regardless if you're going with windows or whatnot. If you're too deep, you're too deep. And we were too deep. So we can pick at the systems and the tactics. But his job should have been, guys, we're way too deep here. As simple as that. It's not as simple as that, of course, because in the moment and the pressure and all those sort of things. But we all

• 3:10Speaker 01

  know we was too deep as a team, regardless of what players he had on the field at the time.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. And with the personnel changes that he's brought into the squad, guys, I mean, Lewis Hall, for example, he should have been in the squad anyway. Looking at his performances this season, absolutely, I know he's back in there, but he should have been, he's one of them that without doubt should have been in the squad and was an error, from what I thought.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Looking at the squad and the fact that he's basically brought in most of the players that we all thought should have been in the World Cup squad. So obviously Lewis Hall, Cole Palmer, in particular those two, and you can also obviously add Alexander Arnold. So overall, was that sort of an admission that he got it wrong or not?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Look at the right backs. I mean, with what's happened, Reece James, injury, and Liver mento was in but was now injured. He pulled out last Saturday's game. Palmer, out injured, I know, but was named in the squad. We'll speak about him more, I guess, in a minute. But yeah, I think part of that, there's a small part of that says, yeah, I could have done things differently.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  He's brought in Trent and Trent's not played loads and loads of minutes, has he?

• 4:27Speaker 00

  No, he's not played that many.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  In terms of other options, if Spence is out injured, James is out injured, Liver mento injured. So yeah, I guess he had to bring him back, no?

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Let's take a look at the original squad Thomas Tuchel picked. So we've got Pickford, Trafford and Steele, the three goalkeepers, defenders, Alexander Arnold, Branthwaite, Chalobah, Gay, Hall, Konzer, Liver mento, O'Reilly and Kwanza. Midfielders, you've got Anderson, Bellingham, Lewis Skelly, Maynu, Palmer, Rice, Scott. And then up front, Calvert-Lewin has started the season well, Eze, Gordon, Kane, Ungomoa, Rashford, Rogers and Saka.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  I like it. I like it.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's more balanced, actually.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Agreed. It's way more balanced. It's more fresh. They've got legs. I like the Rio Ungomoa shout. I really like that. I like the Alex Scott shout.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Alex Scott, absolutely.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been saying that for the last year. He was my, a year ago, he was my wild card to make the, to crash the squad. I got it a little bit late, but we all know what he can do. I think, yeah, I think it looks really good. Konzer's playing well.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think this is, this is the squad that he didn't pick for the World Cup, obviously, because he had this strange thing that he just wanted to rely on 14, 15 players, which he said himself publicly on a number of occasions. So, and I think with hindsight, he'll realise that that was probably an error. It's his first major tournament. I understand why he did that. But anyone who's played in tournaments knows that the team that you start with is very rarely ends up being the one that you finish with in a tournament, whether it's for injuries, form changes, all sorts of things happen. And I think that premise of just relying on 14, 15 players, even though overall he did have to bring a few more in,

• 6:17Speaker 00

  I think was a gamble that didn't quite work. And I think he'll learn from that. Because I think you definitely in a, in a World Cup with all the issues, the travelling, the heat, the extra game that you have in that tournament, is you're going to have to rely on more than just 14, 15 players. Particularly when you're taking the number of substitutions you can use these days. And I think he'll, I don't think he'll do that again on the Euros.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  You know what I think Tuchel's problem is? Because I still think he's a fantastic manager. I think he's very good tactically. I think he's got it as well. Yes, managers can make mistakes. But I actually think he's too honest. If you're going into a tournament and there's news comes out the camp that he only wants to use 14, 15 players, you've lost half of the other players. Do you know what I mean? It's like, well, what, like, players coming into the squad now thinking, oh, well, I'm coming there just to be on the bench or I'm an afterthought. The difference is with players nowadays, you need to keep everybody on board. They're more tapped into the feelings that you've got to make them

• 7:27Speaker 01

  feel like they're the best player in the world now, you know? And I feel like he's too honest. He's too honest with some of his assessments of things. And then even the fact that, you remember before the World Cup, the whole Jude Bellingham thing, where he left the, it's like, he's almost creating problems for no reason. Yes, some might say he got a reaction out of him because he was the best player in the World Cup. It might have worked on that. But if it went the other way, you've lost one of your star players. And going forward, Jude is always going to be pivotal, what you need to do. So I feel as though he needs to withhold some information from us guys, because it feels like we're always got something to talk about where he needs to keep it a bit more in-house, I would say.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. Did I tell you I bumped into him at Tottenham?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  He's up in the, in the owner's suite.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Oh, is that where you was with all the fancy sandwiches, were you?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Well, it's better than that. Food was absolutely exceptional, I have to say. I think Tom Kerridge is in charge of the food in the owner's suite there. But he's not in charge of the football there.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  They need to get him on the pitch then.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  But I had a quick word with Thomas.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  How was he?

• 8:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was fine. We had a little bit of a hug and I said, I'd love, you know, I'd love to get, get your inside take on the, on the game on the World Cup at some point. And he went, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think he meant it. But yeah, I wonder, I mean, absolutely right. He's clearly an exceptional coach. This is, international football is different in terms of the way things run. You get the players for just a short spell of time. You've got to make the most and then you've got a major tournament. It's different. I think he would have learnt a lot from the World Cup. And I think he'll do things slightly differently in the European Championship. And I think he'll be in a better position, I think, to get the best out of England in the Euros.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Here we go again. It's the hope that kills us. One day, one day we're going to fluke one and get it.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Fluke one.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  Well, you need a better look. We need something to happen to get through.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  They've got a nice easy start though, haven't they?

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, Spain. That's a game I think we'll all, we'll look forward to and congratulate the world champions. I mean, whatever you think, I think, I think pretty much everyone agreed that Spain were the best team in the tournament and the best team won.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Definitely, without a doubt.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Didn't start the best though, did they? But they finished the best.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Yeah. Let's take a break there and discuss one or two of the players that are in the squad when we come back. This episode is brought to you by Guinness. Now that the Premier League is back, we've had a few weeks to settle into those familiar matchday rituals. So what's your, do you have a plan at home, Alan?

• 10:14Speaker 02

  I do, yeah. If it's a three o'clock kick off, then I'll go with my pals at half 12, one o'clock to the pub in town, have a couple of pints of Guinness and then walk up to St James's Park.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  Micah, when you're not working?

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  No, just in, well, at home, cinema room, you know, got the game on. Nice little Guinness.

• 10:33Speaker 00

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• 12:48Speaker 00

  Welcome back to The Rest Is Football with Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and me, Gary Lineker. Looking at the England squad. Why don't we pick our starting 11, even though obviously we don't get a say in matters, but like every fan of the country, we'll have our own. We'll base it on obviously the squad that's gone, Micah. Goalkeeper, Pickford, Trafford or Steele?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I would go with Trafford.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  It's time for a change and try and...

• 13:13Speaker 01

  No, not because Pickford's done anything wrong. I'm just thinking two years from now, Trafford started really well at Leeds and if you want to look for a new team, you've got to give people an opportunity, haven't you? Although it's one of those where, do you put him in against Spain, against world champions and then if they were to win the game, knock his confidence? So that's, it's a difficult decision that. I may maybe wait till after Spain, but I would go with Trafford going forward, just to see what he can do.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Oh?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Pickford in goal for me.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  For this one?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, for this one, yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  I think Trafford's probably the future.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  He's got a composure and a confidence that I like a lot.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  They're not an enormous choice of right backs. You've got Trent, obviously, and Konzer can play there. So full backs, possibly Trent and O'Reilly?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  No, Lewis Hall.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Lewis Hall, yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Has to be. My back four would be Trent.

• 14:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  It would be Geare, Konzer and Lewis Hall.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  I think Lewis Hall was probably the unluckiest of anyone to miss out on that World Cup squad. I was astonished when he was left out, so.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  So where's O'Reilly going in your team, Al?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  He's not. I didn't put him in. I had Lewis Hall, I had Konzer, I had Geare and I had Liver mento.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Hold on, wait. I'm Lewis Hall's biggest fan. I was the one bigging him up when he was at Chelsea, even way back when. But you can't play ahead of O'Reilly. Are we being serious here?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Very. I've not seen, one, he should have been in England squad and two, he's had a brilliant start to the season. So Lewis Hall left back for me. What are you looking around like an idiot for?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Anyway, O'Reilly is...

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Oh, really? As you would say in the famous Alan Shearer words, he is magnificent. Hundred percent. I agree with you. Outstanding. But O'Reilly, O'Reilly in the World Cup was amazing.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  There's an argument to say you push him further forward, but yeah, he was good in the World Cup, but I would go with Lewis Hall.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  No, I'd go with O'Reilly. I mean, Hall's good, but O'Reilly, he's got to be O'Reilly.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  This just shows you, doesn't it? There's just one example there of that particular discussion or argument, debate, whatever, how hard it is. There's only one view that counts and it's his, but most people will end up disagreeing with one aspect of your team and that's all they devote their time to arguing about.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Give him half each, 45 each, eh?

• 16:00Speaker 00

  All right, we'll make a deal on that. Okay. Two central defenders, I think we'd pretty much probably all go Gay and Konzer.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  Would we?

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Although I like the Brumfway. I like him.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  If he stays fit this season, yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  He's had a few injuries in the last year or two, but hopefully he's over those. I mean, I think all these players will probably play over the few games that they've got over the next two or three weeks. Midfield, some strong players in here. I mean, if you're just reading them out loud, whether, you know, if you can get the balance right. Anderson, Bellingham, Lewis Skelly, Garner, now Gibbs White, of course, and Scott. And now with Declan Rice and Kobe Mayno out of the squad, I think my midfield three would be Bellingham and Anderson and probably Scott.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  That's what I would go for, yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  That's the three I've got as well, Al.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  The other who Thomas Tuchel has picked up following the pullout, Micah, is Morgan Gibbs White. I think he deserves that, don't you?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I think he's done enough now. He's been consistent over the last couple of years. He can play off the left, he can play in the 10, he can play on the right, he can go a bit deeper. He's versatile and what the manager needs. So I'd like to see him given a chance as well.

• 17:10Speaker 00

  Okay. Up top, Calvert-Lewin's come into the squad, a good start to the season at Leeds. Eze's still in there. Anthony Gordon, who's started pretty well at Barcelona.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's got loads of assists, hasn't he?

• 17:23Speaker 00

  I mean, Barcelona are just smashing everybody at the moment. So, which is worrying because mostly it's the Spanish team that's about to play against England. So he's done okay, Anthony Gordon. He's been used a little bit like Rashford last season.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  Coming off the bench a lot. He did start the last game, did okay. Then you've got, Harry Kane, he might sneak in. On Gomoros, we talked about Rogers and Saka. So, front three.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Kane, Saka, Rogers.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Ooh, yes, I like it. I was thinking Gordon because he started well for Barca, but Rogers also...

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Rogers has had a really good start to the season.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  I said Rogers on the left in the World Cup. Oh, who's going to play number 10? It's got to be Jude or it's got to be... I said, I said, put Rogers on the left. No one, no one agreed with me. No one agreed. Now we're saying Rogers on the left. Yes, I'll agree with you on that. I'll agree with you. Rogers on the left, mate. I like it. I like it.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  Okay, I think we've got a starting line up there, which Thomas Tuchel will completely ignore and probably wisely so. It's a cracking start to the international season though. I know we don't love international breaks in terms of the domestic football gets interrupted for quite long, but England, Spain, the World Cup winners, it's a good challenge for England. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that it's one they'll enjoy, but...

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Coming on the back into the international fold after that high, do you think that they'll be right at it? I'm not sure we'll see how, being as brilliant as they were, but it's a great start for, with what happened with England and what happened with Spain. England need to bounce back. It's not a game that England can afford to lose because Thomas Tuchel needs to get rid of the comments that we all made about the Argentina game. So it's, yeah, it's a great one to have, isn't it? It's a great one to start with for England.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  I'm intrigued to see this team moving forward now in the next two years, building up to the Euros that's in UK and Ireland, isn't it? So, I mean, I'm really looking forward to it. So I'm watching every minute of every game, see what it does tactically, see what players introduces, maybe a Trafford, maybe a Alex Scott, maybe a Hall as Alan wants. And then potentially seeing what he does if he wants to give Kane a rest. Does he put Jude in that nine? Will he bring Rogers into then the 10? Will he go Gordon on the left? Will he go Rio and Gomor on the left? I think there's so many different ideas that

• 20:02Speaker 01

  he'll have. I'm intrigued to find out what he's going to do.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. For the past few years, all the games outside the competitions themselves have been against, with all due respect, inferior opposition, really, you know, very small countries, et cetera. And it's, there's never really been too many challenges, particularly as they dropped out that top bunch of the, in the Nations League and dropped out into the second tier. So that didn't help either. So it's good to see in this international break that there are fixtures that will offer a real challenge and we'll get a little bit more of an insight into hopefully England's post-World Cup progress.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Interesting, some big names have gone into international management to make their debuts, obviously in this international break. One is a certain Zinedine Zidane and the other one, of course, is Jürgen Klopp with Germany. Both of them take over at a time that was advantageous to them in the sense that Germany have not been very good in recent times and I think Klopp will make a real difference. I suspect Zinedine Zidane was quite pleased. We will never admit that France didn't win the World Cup because that would have been, I mean, such a difficult job following Didier Deschamps if they'd won two World

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Cups. And so I think he'll never, he'll never admit it, obviously, but I would imagine that it gives him somewhere to go.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Zidane's been sat waiting patiently for this job, hasn't he? But I mean, because of the success, so it's great to see him back in the game. And Jürgen, I mean, with his energy and everything else, it was, it was only a matter of time and I think it's the ideal job for him. He's got a big job on his hands there though because Germany were terrible in the World Cup.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  And he called up about 40 players, Klopp. I've seen some on social media the day he's, he's basically invited all of Germany to come.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  I mean, he's done two separate squads of 22 and going to do one for two games. I guess because he's come in and it's his first time, I doubt he'll do this every squad, but it's an interesting approach. He probably just wants to see everyone, get to know everyone, see how they train and give everyone a chance of playing. But so I get that. And he also, I mean, Germany were obviously very short in the World Cup and ultimately you can have the best manager in the world, but it comes down to players and whether they've got enough quality and whether they're producing enough talent at present.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  I think it also goes to style of play as well. I think in the World Cup, we thought it was going to be a little bit slower, a little bit cagey, and it wasn't that. Some of the best teams in the tournament pressed, didn't they? They pressed really well and we all know what Jürgen wants to do in terms of where he sets up his teams. I mean, I'm intrigued to see how Germany do. And it's one that's sort of been mentioned for a few years now, hasn't it, Klopp going to Germany? So now he's got his wish. Let's see what he can do.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  Okay, chaps, let's call it a day there. That's it for this episode of The Rest Is Football. Goodbye from me.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Goodbye from me.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Goodbye from me. Have a great weekend.