Argentina survive huge scare against Cape Verde as Messi makes it 8 in a row

Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Micah Richards, Joe Cole and Christopher Eccleston discuss a World Cup classic, as Cape Verde took Argentina to extra time before finally losing 3-2. They also look at Thomas Tuchel's preparations for their knockout game against Mexico on Sunday and the tactical matchups that will be pivotal to England's chances of victory. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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  Hi, this is Gary Lineker from Goalhangers. The rest is football. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee, and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas, or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer, and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies. Most transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid-market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees.

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  Hello and welcome to The Rest Is Football. On today's show, we've got Joe Cole, Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and a very special guest, a Doctor Who, Christopher Eccleston. And we will be discussing one of the great World Cup games and the brilliant performance from Cape Verde wasn't quite enough against Argentina, but what a go they gave it. And don't forget, if you'd like to see the show, you can catch us on Netflix every day.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Reigning champions Argentina needed extra time against an ex- Extraordinary, heroic Cape Verde in Florida, but in the end, Argentina provided too much Miami Heat. Welcome to The Rest Is Football. With us tonight, we have Micah Richards, Joe Cole and not one but two legendary number nines. Alan Shearer of course, and the ninth doctor, Christopher Eccleston. Is it Christopher or Chris?

• 5:03Speaker 05

  It's Chris.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 05

  Christopher just for, just for, just for work.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Why?

• 5:09Speaker 05

  They'll take you a bit more seriously, you know, the middle classes and the Oxbridge lot, with my accent.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  None of that in this room.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know, I know. We're all councillor state. We are, aren't we? We are. I'll relax then.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 05

  Him, he's councillor state.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  He is, yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Micah is, yeah, gotta be.

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Oh, proper councillor state, I love it. Hey, but look at me now, Netflix baby!

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Brilliant. So, what a game we just saw. I mean, in all honesty, the first half was quite drab and the game was slow, but boy, did it kick into life. What a game, Chris.

• 5:46Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel a bit bad because I always, I always support the underdog, but I didn't want to lose Messi from the World Cup.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 05

  So I feel like I betrayed the underdog there. What an effort that was.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  I'm with you there. If they were playing any other team, I'd be right behind them, but I just want to watch Messi if last few times at the World Cup.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  But to be honest, even in defeat, it was a victory for them because to do that kind of performance against the defending champions, not to be beaten in 90 minutes by any team in this tournament, to score two great goals and the second one in particular, you know, to draw after 90 minutes against Argentina, to draw after 90 minutes against Spain. I mean, wow, Micah.

• 6:28Speaker 06

  Oh, it's just absolutely amazing. But I think they had more quality than people actually give them credit for. I know they had a few draws like you mentioned, but the energy, the quality, when there was the goalkeeper as well, who everyone's mentioned throughout the tournament, but his composure on the ball, playing it out and then having the little triangles. I was so impressed of him, but I knew it was coming for Argentina. I just, I just knew it. I just knew they could always produce that moment of, of magic, whether it was gonna be Messi, whether it was gonna be one of the top players at the air. I felt so bad for them, but we love Messi, don't we? We love Messi. So it was one of those things. But it was a great performance.

• 7:10Speaker 05

  You've said it though. I mean, to not be beaten in the 90 minutes. I didn't realise that. Spain and Argentina.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  And Uruguay. And also, there's a little point to here, if you look at the qualification, because they topped their group ahead of Cameroon and kept them. I mean, that's a, that's a decent footballing nation, Cameroon. I know from my own experience. So they had a bit of form coming in, but you couldn't have imagined them doing what they did. And as for the Sidney Lopez Cabral, a name that we'll always remember. What a moment. What a goal, Joe. It was unbelievable, wasn't it? And when he, when he run up into the stands, I thought he ain't coming back here. I figured, who's he looking for? And he couldn't find his misses. And, and what I loved about it, the ref just let him have his moment. You know, it was brilliant, beautiful moment. And let me tell you, he'll be, he'll be getting paid

• 7:59Speaker 03

  every four years by FIFA. They'll be dragging him out and give, so he's earned himself a right few quid there.

• 8:03Speaker 06

  He deserves it.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  He deserves it. Him and the goalkeeper. Yeah, yeah, both of them. It changed their lives. Yeah. I mean, but they, I mean, they, yes, they played a low block and they made it very difficult for Argentina, who were a little bit pedestrian and looked a little bit lacking in pace and, and, and energy. And maybe the weather, it was 30 odd degrees there in Miami. But they, they not only had a low block, but they also had a go at times. You know, and even when it was 3-2 down, they went really close a couple of times towards the end.

• 8:31Speaker 05

  The, the, the attitude that they showed and then getting and committing men to get into the box to try and to win it. Because when Argentina scored, we thought, yeah, that's it. They're done. And then they come back to 1-1. And then Argentina score again and you think, oh, that's it. We're all expecting. Then they come back again. And then even still, when they get the, when they get the third one, we're, we're all thinking, that's it. Goodness me. Then they keep on going. I mean, what, what a story. It's incredible.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  It's like, there's something about real life drama in sport, isn't there? I mean, you're in that world where it's, obviously it's written and scripted, but in football sometimes it's.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  Football always throws up stuff that if you scripted it.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  You wouldn't believe it.

• 9:10Speaker 05

  It'd be rejected. It'd be rejected. I mean, the footage of the Capa Verde kids crying. We were looking at that at the end and that little lad.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Oh, no, beautiful.

• 9:20Speaker 05

  The magic of the world. You know, I was, I, before the tournament started, I was slightly worried, um, that the quality might suffer in. But, eh, forget that, this is, this is the story, this proves that, I think, the story that's come out of it is that it's, it's been amazing, it's been just incredible.

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Do you, do you think, Micah, that the, the level of, let's say the smaller nations in football has kind of crept a bit closer to the big footballing nations overall?

• 9:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I think it's a, a, a good point, and I, I think their tactics is, has come into that. I think weather's played a big part, I think I said before the tournament starts, it's gonna be very hard to play end-to-end football, um, and I think, uh, teams now are a lot more disciplined. We use the word low block a lot, but if you, if you get it right, and then on the transition, you've got legs and you've got energy, it, it can work. But I think the gap is definitely getting shorter. And when there was 48 teams, it was all having a little bit of moment, a little bit of grumble, and you know, the people were saying the competition's not really gonna start to the knockout games. But with Cape Verde, especially with the goalkeeper, when they got that draw against Spain, it was almost like,

• 10:37Speaker 06

  wow, we didn't expect that, and then everyone had eyes on it, and I just think it's been a fantastic tournament from start to finish. Of course, in the knockout rounds, it's gonna get even better. But I think it's been really good, right from the start, and you can see that gap, it is definitely getting shorter.

• 10:54Speaker 05

  What's gonna happen in four years? The effect, the, the African, the progress that the African teams have made in four years' time.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  I wonder whether they go 64.

• 11:03Speaker 05

  They're gonna go, they'll go again.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Go 64, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think you said this, was it you that said this? No, it's, it was Harry Maguire said, the start of the tournament, he said, I think it should be 64. And I thought, wow, what are you saying, Harry, that sounds ridic- but actually, given the level of the smaller country, but also to make it fairer for the, in the group stage, where, you know, the 32 teams that finish either first or second go through. We're just gonna bring Alex Aljo in, um, she wasn't at the game, but she was with a lot of Argentinians uh, in Queens, so how was that night? It must have been a bit tense at times, Alex.

• 11:38Speaker 07

  Yeah Gary, you be forgiven for thinking we were in a neighbourhood in Buenos Aires, not in Queens, in New York. What a night we have had here. A giant screen behind us here on the street. Argentinian fans singing, dancing, celebrating. Fireworks, splares at times, although they went through a whole range of emotions. There were also tears, they were also praying because Cape Verde made it so tough for them tonight, didn't they? And Cape Verde can certainly go home with their heads held high. I actually interviewed their manager, Bobista, after that goalless draw against Spain, that first group stage game. And he said to me, "We are here to show the world who we are. We're going to

• 12:19Speaker 07

  be brave, we're going to be bold." And that's exactly what they did. That Cabral Colazo is going to go down in history, isn't it? And what about Vosina? What a story that is. Forty years old, his first ever World Cup. He says he's been fighting for this moment. He's going to go home with 19 million Instagram followers. I was actually checking his Instagram account during the match and he gained over a million followers just during that match. It is pouring with rain here, but they're still dancing behind me. What a night it's been.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  And what Pro Alex is, because she's just put her earpiece in so that she can now hear my response to that. Well done. Bear with us, Alex. I'm going to bring in the guys. I want to talk to you, Joe, about Messi's goal. I know he's relatively quiet tonight, a chance he missed, but oh my goodness, an appreciation of that skill, please. It's one of them guys, I think as a footballer, it's so difficult to do what he done there. For the naked eye, it looks good, but it's so impressive because he's had to calculate, the ball's come over the fullback's head, it's about to bounce. And he knows he has to leave it just a metre from his foot. So to have the wherewithal to understand where the goalie is, and just take enough off it, and then just stand there and roof it into

• 13:35Speaker 03

  the top. You're like, I just love him. I just absolutely love him. It was so beautiful. Half volley.

• 13:41Speaker 05

  Trapped it on a half volley.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  That was a half volley control.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  Almost in the six yard box.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  It was, it was an incredible bit. What was the reaction of the Argentinian fans when he did that, Alex?

• 13:52Speaker 07

  Messi Colazo, it just erupted here. These fans just, in actual fact, I actually saw a man with tears.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Tears streaming down his face at that moment as well, there was fireworks. They're in awe of Lionel Messi, aren't they? Argentinians all over the world. Yep, 20 World Cup goals.

• 14:10Speaker 06

  Do we agree that's a half volley then, Gaz? That is a half volley, isn't it?

• 14:14Speaker 05

  The control.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  The half volley.

• 14:17Speaker 06

  Oh man, this is nonsense, absolutely.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  And then it was a shot.

• 14:22Speaker 06

  Just the control.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, he controlled it as it ball bounced.

• 14:25Speaker 05

  Can you switch him off?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  The goal itself was finished. I mean, we've got another one on our side in Chris here.

• 14:31Speaker 05

  I know nothing about football. I'd vote Man United.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  Were the fans, it'd be interesting to know, because we know what we're like as England fans, and I'm sure fans around the world are the same, Alex, that when you're watching your own team and they're not playing particularly well, and Argentina weren't playing anything like at their best in this game. And if it were England, we'd be going, "Oh, this is terrible." Were they frustrated? Were they wondering what the hell was going on? I think as England fans, we're sort of ready for the disappointment, aren't we? We expect it and we're like, "Oh, here we go again," kind of thing. Whereas with these Argentinians, they were sort of in shock. You know, they were just sort of looking at the screen, not speaking, not talking. None of them left.

• 15:17Speaker 06

  I feel like England fans sometimes just would walk out and leave the pub or wherever they were watching. "Here we go again." But no, they all stood there, believing for sure.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Alex, we're going to let you go. I hope you're going out with the Argentinians now.

• 15:31Speaker 06

  Absolutely, absolutely. Vamos.

• 15:35Speaker 06

  Vamos, vamos!

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, while we're on the subject of Messi. He took the corner, obviously, for the winning goal.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  And it was headed in by Romero. And then it was, for some inexplicable reason, given as an own goal. Flicked off his hand, it might not be. I don't know why they needed to do that. All you're doing is ruining, eh, Romero's moment to a degree. Yeah. But Borges has now scored the own goal in the game and it wasn't necessary. And also, actually, the other interesting thing is that Messi took the corner. That would have been nine assists in World Cup history, which would have taken him above Maradona, who's on eight.

• 16:16Speaker 06

  Well, Gaz, you keep talking about the law though, don't you? If, if, if the header's going wide and it comes off someone, then it's an own goal, isn't it? You're trying to get Messi another assist.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  I don't know how you can measure that, Micah. I don't know how you measure that when he's that close and he heads it and it hits his hand. Like, it would have been a penalty if it hadn't gone in, I would have understood. Micah, have you heard about Gaz's layoff record? He's got, he's got the layoff record, forty-one.

• 16:43Speaker 06

  Oh, we're not getting that stat again.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  That's the only one he's got left. And we're waiting for Messi to break that. We're counting layoffs now. I've, I've got my little notebook, and that's twenty-seven. I'm telling you now, you don't need to do layoffs when you can play. When, when you're shit, all you need to do is lay it off to someone else to do the magic. And that, that, that's the secret. So Messi doesn't get the... He doesn't get, no, I think under the way, the, I mean, now, he would have done in times gone by, of course. But it's now, it's all data and all programmed. I mean, I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid if they'd have just given the goal to Romero, would they? Yeah, no, certainly not. Argentina's, are they lacking, they're lacking something. They don't look as strong as, I mean...

• 17:26Speaker 05

  You know what they lack? I think they lack a little bit of pace.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 17:29Speaker 05

  And I think that's, that may cost them. Um, clearly you can never, whilst he's in the team and playing Messi, then you've got to give them a, a chance. But I just think at times they just lack that bit of sharpness.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Alvarez, when he comes on, I think he gives them a, he needs to... More energy. More energy, more legs. But apart from, Al's right, apart from that, when you compare them with the pace that the French have got.

• 17:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Or even us, you know, I think they're going to struggle as the game opens up. But they've got an house.

• 18:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  And that, that counts as something. They just, they seem to know how to win in difficult situations. Yeah. One final word on Kate Verdi, they were the third smallest, um... Actually, the smallest nation ever to get to the knockouts.

• 18:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  The third smallest to actually be in the competition. I mean, they can go home as like kings in their country, can't they? And I think in football, you either win or you lose. But I actually think in defeat, they have won, Chris. I mean, obviously, they're not going to win a tournament. But to do what they've done is truly incredible.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  If I was playing for that team, I'd feel patronized by that. I'd still.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  I totally get that as well. But let's be realistic.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  They're going to be gutted.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, they'll be gutted. Yeah. Yeah, they'll be gutted now. Yeah. But as time passes and they realize what they've done. Because there's 48 teams in this World Cup. Only one team can win it. So that means 47 teams can't be disappointed. Cape Verde have got to be like, it's got to be one of the stories. They're champions as far as I'm concerned because you can't compete with France.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  I'm going to be supporting them in four years' time.

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• 21:11Speaker 06

  Well, the countdown is on to England versus Mexico in the round of 16 and the anticipation in camp is building. The two players playing for the left hand side, Gordon and Rashford. What's it like when you think you're competing with someone for a place? You've talked about it before, but they're obviously close mates and they wanted, and actually they could be, end up being a similar thing at Barcelona bizarrely, but...

• 21:35Speaker 03

  It's difficult Gaz, it's like, I think it's modern football now, it's the 16. I think in your day, there was less subs, weren't there? And it was like you was in or you... So nowadays, every manager makes five subs and you know, I think with Marcus, I think it might actually be easier for Marcus and Anthony Gordon because I think Thomas Tuchel's been clear, it's going to be 60 minutes and 30 minutes. And Jose did that, was the first one to start rotating when he was at Chelsea. It was me, Rob and Duff, Shaun Wright, Phillips. It bred like anxiety, but also like a real intent, like you had to make something happen within the 60 minutes because you know, if you didn't...

• 22:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, you're off.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  And you're off. And even if you was on fire, you might only stay on for 70, 75. So, but it breeds competition and it's healthy and I think these boys are used to it now.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  Is it a bit like, Chris, like when perhaps two or three of you go in for an audition for a big part and you want them to do badly and stuff like that? You want them to do as bad as possible. I mean, I'm odd because I've never really, I've never been somebody who's, who's, who's thought, oh, I could do that better. I've not been like that, but yeah, it's, it's intense. And you know, you see them coming out. In my day, it's changed now because it's all, auditions are taped now, but in my day, you went, you went to the building and you'd see your rival walking out. Yeah.

• 22:50Speaker 05

  Listening to the activity in the hotels and the noise and.

• 22:55Speaker 06

  They mentioned.

• 22:55Speaker 05

  Do not be surprised if we read over the next couple of days when England arrive about fire alarms going off in the hotel. We've all had it, haven't we?

• 23:02Speaker 06

  It was ever thus, wasn't it? You just deal with that. You just get on with it, don't you? You've got to.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Whenever we played your team, Manchester United, someone in the hotel, I won't say the name of the hotel in Manchester, a little, little Herbert somewhere, must have been a Man United fan.

• 23:16Speaker 06

  Been a maria imersely.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Hundred percent, 2am, like you would set your clock, like alarm would go off, we'd all have to come down and like, oh. Then you get back to bed and the hotel manager would go, oh, sorry about that.

• 23:28Speaker 06

  Is that when you saw Diego Maradona?

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was on one of many occasions. You could meet anyone on a fire alarm break at 2 in the morning. But it was, it was like, it got to the point where it sort of riled us up. Because the hotel manager would be like, apologize him, but you must, you must know who's done this, you. Do you know what I mean?

• 23:44Speaker 06

  It's him.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably was him, yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 05

  Sorry about that, lads.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably Fergie getting them in there, do you know what I mean?

• 23:50Speaker 05

  Fergie leaning on the fire alarm.

• 23:53Speaker 06

  Chris, well, I know you've got a bit of a view on the England midfield. Oh, you've heard about that. Well, you, you kind of said, can I talk about England's midfield? I want to know what you, what you're going to say. Play Declan Rice at right back.

• 24:06Speaker 05

  Really?

• 24:06Speaker 06

  Play Mainoo. Mainoo's good. I love. Play Mainoo. Play Eze. Well, you're, you're a big fan of Manchester United. I am a big fan. I know you are. Can I ask you though, I, I want to, I want to, Declan Rice, fullback, bring Mainoo in?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Not sure about Declan at full-back, but I do see, I did suggest it the other day and I was laughed, almost laughed off air by Micah, because obviously it's not a position he plays. I think he could perfectly well play there. And I think with Anderson and Maynu, I think actually those two together would give us a bit more stability and would keep the ball better. You might lose a little bit of, I mean Declan is such a good player and he covers so much ground, but I do get your point. And I'm actually quite surprised Maynu's not featured a little bit, certainly more than perhaps he has.

• 24:55Speaker 05

  I'd be amazed if you made that choice.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 24:58Speaker 06

  So who's he going to play in midfield then?

• 25:00Speaker 05

  I think he'll play Rice and Anderson again.

• 25:02Speaker 06

  Right.

• 25:03Speaker 05

  And same with Bellingham, just ahead of them. And he's got the choice of either Spence or Konzer at right-back.

• 25:11Speaker 06

  So he's not going to disrupt it at this point?

• 25:13Speaker 05

  Well, if he puts Konzer in there, he's bringing Stones back in, which is another change.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  I think their main threat is down Keanounas, down the left side. So he might want to put someone a bit experienced, maybe Konzer. Whoever plays right-back is the most important player on the pitch. Because Keanounas is the top scorer, and that's the Saudi league, but we've seen him, he's scored goals in this tour.

• 25:34Speaker 05

  He's got three already in this tour.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  And everything they do on the break goes through him. Now, if Konzer plays, he has to be brilliant 1v1, or Spence has to be brilliant 1v1. That is the most important. If anything, I'd play one of them two. I tell you what, we've got to this with England now. We think the right-back is the most important. That's all we ever talk about, who's going to be bloody right-back. In this game, the right-back's the most important player. Because if he performs, I think that nullifies 25% of their threat. Chris, I want to ask you about your football background. I know you're a Manchester United fan, but you've also worked on screen with a couple of stars. Eric Cantona, you did something with.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  I did, yes.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  How was that?

• 26:16Speaker 05

  I did Eric's first English-language film, which was Elizabeth, Kate Blanchett.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  In Elizabeth. He'd done one other film, he'd done a French film called Happiness is in the field. The camera operator, big Tottenham fan, and they're the guys who see you, they're looking down the lens, said Eric was terrified, which was interesting for me to think of.

• 26:39Speaker 06

  I was terrified just doing that.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Terrified, yeah. Well, you should be, Gary.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  I know.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  He was, because it was the first time he'd worked in English language. Right. And he said he was, he was walking around muttering the lines to himself. And for me, it was difficult because I was a season ticket holder for 30 years. Followed Cantona and, and I couldn't speak to him. Richard Attenborough, who was in the film.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 05

  Was chatting away to him, I think he was chairman of Chelsea.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  He was at Chelsea, yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Big Chelsea fan he was.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  I couldn't speak to Eric and everybody was taking the piss out of him.

• 27:13Speaker 06

  Were you in awe of him?

• 27:15Speaker 05

  Completely.

• 27:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, and, and didn't you also?

• 27:17Speaker 05

  I don't give a monkey's about actors, right?

• 27:19Speaker 06

  Didn't you also?

• 27:19Speaker 05

  Meeting footballers, I'm, I'm gonna say it, listening to you lot talk about football is fascinating for me.

• 27:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, not so much our acting, honestly.

• 27:28Speaker 05

  No.

• 27:28Speaker 06

  But you also worked with the lawman, I mean.

• 27:30Speaker 05

  I worked with Dennis Law. Dennis Law said, I made a joke about Dennis Law's, the size of Dennis Law's nose. And he said to me, I haven't got, I beg nose, I've got a small face. And then he said, he said, if me and you stood back to back, it would be a peckaxe.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  What was interesting about Dennis was we went to the pub for lunch during the shoot. It was a low budget shoot and he was, he, he, he was so polite with everybody, signing autographs. He didn't, he didn't like it. And I'm interested in asking you lot about introverts.

• 28:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 05

  You know, people who were, who were in the dressing room wouldn't say boo to a goose.

• 28:10Speaker 06

  Well, don't ask Micah because he's definitely not an introvert.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  Is it true that, you know, that you see a different character sometimes on the field than?

• 28:19Speaker 06

  Oh, yes, absolutely, yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 05

  Could you give us an example?

• 28:24Speaker 06

  Mark Hughes, right? Mark Hughes, quiet, nicest bloke you've ever, on the pitch, turned into a like monster. Like, strong and.

• 28:34Speaker 05

  Paul Scholes.

• 28:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  Great example. You must have seen him. My favourite player of all time. He was, was, was very different, only on the pitch, he was like, poof. And then he was quiet. I know it's, it's different now when he's doing all his different stuff, but.

• 28:46Speaker 06

  Micah will know someone. You wouldn't, you wouldn't like it because he's a Liverpool player because of your big red, but Steven Gerrard. Off, off, off the pitch.

• 28:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:56Speaker 06

  Honestly, he didn't say anything. He just walked around with aura and everyone knew he was an incredible player. On the pitch, he used to wrap the ball into you. If you couldn't control it, the look that he used to give to you, you'd be like, come on, he was so aggressive. And the tackles that he used to go into, it just set the tone for everything. And it would come, come off the pitch. And he was just the nicest, calmest, wouldn't say anything to anyone, sort of just chilled out person you could ever met. The contrast was massive. Steven, Steven Gerrard, what, what a guy, what a guy he was and what a player he was.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  You get that with some actors. You get, you get that with some actors who are, they're, they only come alive when they're playing a character.

• 29:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:41Speaker 05

  And it, it, it sounds contradictory, but a lot of actors, I'm not, I'm pretty extroverted, but a lot of actors are introverted.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  I suppose that's also because you get used to being someone else all the time.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Rather than, you never play yourself, do you?

• 29:58Speaker 03

  That's it for this episode of The Rest Is Football. We'll be back after England's game. Let's hope they're still in it.

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