PSG Humble Man City, Carrick Under Pressure & Lamine The Dream

Luis Enrique and PSG keep up their impressive record against English clubs as they beat Manchester City in one of the games of the season so far, are they favourites to get that third consecutive Champions League title? Michael Carrick comes under increasing pressure as his side fall to an in-form Atlético Madrid. There were signs of improvement, but with a trip to bitter rivals Leeds coming up this weekend, is it already a must-win game for Carrick? Plus, Gary, Alan and Micah wax lyrical about Lamine Yamal. Could his sensational start to the season put him on course to win the Ballon d’Or? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, this is Gary Lineker from Goalhangers, the rest is football. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate and easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies. Most transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid-market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees.

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• 2:03Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to The Rest is Football with Alan Shearer and me, Gary Lineker. Don't worry, Michael will be joining us. Well, he'll be joining me in the second half because this is a podcast of two halves. I'm going to do Alan first because there's a reason that you can't do Thursday morning. Mike is working tonight. We're recording this with you, Alan, on Wednesday night. Mike is doing CBS and I'm going to be joining you in a fono, a phono. How do you say it? Do you know?

• 2:33Speaker 03

  Fono.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  For one night only.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Explain to people what it is.

• 2:38Speaker 03

  Well, all proceeds will go to my foundation as part of the million pound mission which we're trying to raise in the year. And yeah, you're very kindly interviewing me from sort of start of my career, very early days, which I'm sure the people in the audience have never seen the footage, never seen the pictures that have never, I don't, I don't think have been released, some of them. So yeah, there's a load of Geordies coming down and there's a lot of people from wherever all over the country. So it should be a bit of fun.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  It will be fun. Very much looking forward to it, Alan. But in the meantime, let's discuss some football. What a couple of nights we've had.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  So many goals over, over two nights, so many kind of turnarounds. And I wonder whether perhaps the nature of the format helps that because I think there's a, there's a degree of freedom. We used to have those little groups, didn't we? And, you know, you might occasionally get two big teams playing each other. And if they did, it was primarily who's going to win the group because they'd always go through anyway. You knew that. Now, I know with this, pretty much all the big clubs will certainly be in the, you know, not necessarily in the top eight, but in the, in the top 24. But they really will want to be in the top eight.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  But at the same time, and they don't necessarily want to be in the six, the tops 24 because obviously they have to play two games extra in the season. So that's tough. And I think it's, I think the teams, I mean, I've just watched the Manchester City PSG game, which was truly extraordinary. We'll come to that and we'll come to that in a little bit later and I'll do it more in depth probably with Michael because he worked on that game as well. So I just think teams have feel free to actually have a go at each other because, you know, the jeopardy's not massive. But at the same time, I'm seeing a lot of entertaining football this season. I think we, do I say this, Al? Are we getting away from the fucking dreaded low block?

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, this, I mean, it's not a disaster if you lose a game. So I guess teams may be opening up a little bit more in terms of, yeah, if they lose, then it's not the be all and end all. There's a, there's a bit of, there's a bit of leeway in the competition if you were to lose a game or two early on.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  You were in Madrid.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  I was, beautiful.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  For the Atletico Manchester United game. Obviously it's added a bit more heat on United, a bit more heat on Michael Carr. But actually I thought they played all right. I watched quite a bit of it and then I was flicking on to the, to the goal show to see what was going on because I knew you'd got that game covered. So you give us, you give us the inside knowledge on that one.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  He changed things around a little bit. He left, obviously Shaw was out, Maguire was out, Kobe Maynu was out. And he changed things around a bit. He brought in Santos, brought in Belaba.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Aidan Heavon played, right?

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, Heavon played left back. So yeah, there were changes. Manchester United did improve and they improved a lot, I think, compared to what we saw on Saturday against Spurs. I know that was a bit of a low bar, but they did improve a lot. They, they conceded after 53 seconds and it could have been very different. I mean, they didn't cave. I think if anything, it made them stronger, it made them better. And they missed some big chances to get back into the game. And they were chasing the game, there's no doubt. But then Jonathan David came on. I mean, it was never a sending off for me when Yoro got sent off, never, never.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  No, I didn't think so either.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  A red card for me, not enough in it. I mean, he put his hand on him and you know what it's like. He went over so easily, but he got the, the red card and then they got done. But it was much improved from, from Manchester United and plenty for Carrick to work on. I don't think they're a brilliant team. I don't think they're going to finish in the, in the Champions League spot at all. I think it's going to be a bit of a tough season for them and it'll be a tough season for him because of the, for those reasons.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  I mean, they've only beaten this season Ipswich and Sabah, who's the, obviously the first team they played in, in the Champions League this season. Did you feel a bit of, I mean, obviously a couple of the new signings, all three new signings played in midfield, didn't they? Santos, Belaba and of course Telemann. Did you, did you see much to encourage you there or?

• 7:01Speaker 03

  It was a little because he put Bruno Fernandes on the right-hand side of a front three, which clearly it's not his best position and not where he wants to be. I thought the two midfielders did all right. So there was certainly an improvement in terms of energy, legs, effort against Atletico than there was against Tottenham at the weekend. And in terms of chances created, they created a lot of chances. Buemo had a, had a couple, Rashford had, had a chance. Bruno Fernandes had a big chance.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  They missed a header from a corner as well. So that's what they'll be kicking themselves with because they should have scored. It's a really, really tough place to go as we know with Simeone. He gets the crowd going. It's a brilliant stadium, brilliant atmosphere. Simeone plays a huge part in who and what they are, Atletico Madrid. So it's a tough place to go. So having said that, all things being equal, after what happened at the weekend, I thought it was a decent performance from, from Manchester United, although the scoreline wouldn't suggest that.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  I'm going to talk to you about this before. I'll obviously mention it to Michael as well, but did you, have you seen the social media clips of, of them asking Simeone who his, his favourite was?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  I saw that, yeah, yeah. Michael, it's like.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  But he's, no, he said the one with the glasses. He didn't know his name, did he?

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Oh, right. Okay, okay.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  He said, no, the one with the glasses. I mean, no one picked that up, but he clearly, I mean, he's, I mean, you would say, wouldn't you, the one with the glasses.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Listen, I'll go gently on Michael, I won't mention it for a bit and see, because he'll get so excited. He was so excited, he ran up to the screen and everything. I can't wait to talk to him about that. I suppose probably the biggest story coming out of that game were the comments made by Lysandro Martinez at the end of the game. He said the following: "It is easy to say the coaches, it's easy to say the players, but also we have to see the other areas. You start changing, changing, changing managers, but what about other areas? I can't say more. We expect more from the top, from upstairs, to bring in more players to compete. I expect more from our technical director, that's Jason Wilcox of course.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  I have to be honest, we had a fantastic season last season, now we expect more. It's also important to build a strong squad to be ready for this kind of night. If we don't say the truth, nothing will change." I've heard you say it many times, they weren't backed in the summer and, I mean, it's quite unusual for a player to step up and say that.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, it is. I said it again before the game last night, that I honestly don't think Carrick was backed enough and I think he was let down in the summer after what he did and what he achieved in terms of where he got them to last season. They should have backed him better, they should have bought more players. But I think there are, when I, when I, when I heard him say that, I was thinking, my first thoughts were, what, what's coming out of his mouth is right. I think it's absolutely right in what he-

• 10:12Speaker 00

  But is it the right thing to do?

• 10:13Speaker 03

  But, has he said anything to them in private? Will he, will he, I mean, I would have to guess that that's the talk in the dressing room, unless he's got a personal agenda. I know his contract's up by the end of the season, but I would guess that that's the talk in the dressing room. But I don't think a player, in those circumstances, you've just been beaten. The form he's in, or the lack of form, because he was dreadful at the weekend against Spurs, he got bullied off Solanke twice, one which was the equaliser. And I guess the fans, a lot of the fans, I know you should never judge social media, but a lot of the fans on social media are all in agreement with, with what he's saying.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  And I, I think it's right what came out of his mouth, but I don't think, I don't think it was the right place to say it in front of millions of people and in the way he did and after a defeat, and the form that he is in and Manchester United are in.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  I would compare it possibly to when coaches single out players for criticism publicly. I think it's okay to do that in the dressing room. And I think, well, I mean, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because I think, like, like you, I totally agree with your opinion on that, which is exactly the same as Martinez's opinion on that. But when you're part of a team-

• 11:36Speaker 03

  When you're inside of it, yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  It's difficult. But, and sometimes emotions run, you know.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  I think he also puts, he puts the new signings in a difficult position as well. All that, I don't think he meant the new signings. I just think, I think he meant we needed more as well as those. I mean, because I thought the interview, Gabriel Clarke, who interviewed him for, for Prime, thought it was, the way he handled it was brilliant. But then, clearly, he'd thought about it, because he then went and said exactly the same thing on CBS. I think he said something that's very, very similar. So, he, he knew exactly what he was doing and he chose his time to do it. I just, I just don't think the timing was good and I don't think it's a good look when a player is coming out and

• 12:22Speaker 03

  being critical of those above him, albeit, I guess the pundits can say that, but you can't say that when you're inside the dressing room, when you're playing, not publicly anyway.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I agree. I think it's exactly the same as a manager criticizing a player. I don't think it's the right thing to do publicly, unless there are extreme circumstances.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  I just think that club at the minute is, there's so much shit coming out of it, whether it's fans moaning about ticket prices, whether it's staff losing their jobs, whether it's a stadium or-

• 12:54Speaker 00

  I think you should change that slightly, whether it's fans moaning about ticket prices, or maybe you should just word it, "ticket prices."

• 13:01Speaker 03

  Ticket prices, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean, staff losing their job, the number of managers they've been through, who they've hired and fired, compensation, directors of football that have been in there and left. It's, I mean, and also, I mean, on, on the pitch, I guess they did very well to get back into the Champions League last year, but they, they just seem, they just seem a mile off. And, and I know there was lots of talk about, well, they strengthened the forward line, they've strengthened the midfield and perhaps they were waiting to strike. As I've said to you before, I'm not convinced of that good up front anyway. I just think, I think they're a long way behind the elite. When you look at, when you look at the top teams, you look at City, you look

• 13:46Speaker 03

  at Paris Saint-Germain, look at Real Madrid, look at Barcelona, look at Arsenal, look at all the clubs who you think of, can, can, can go deep into, into the competition and do well in forward positions. I think, I do think that they're, they're lacking in that area.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  I think one thing you'd say, I mean, Manchester United, huge football club, obviously massive success for such a long period of time. I, you just mentioned a few clubs there that could compete in this Champions League, but I don't think you put Manchester United anywhere near-

• 14:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  Any of those teams that-

• 14:21Speaker 03

  They're a long way off that. I know they're a long way off that, yeah. But I also, that's, that is, that is typical, isn't it? Because I guess who they went in for, number one and number two targets, they're not able to get anymore, because number one and number two targets are choosing other football clubs.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  Where that would never have happened 20 years ago, 25 years ago. It would never, never have happened. And that, that's, that's where Manchester United are now.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Arsenal are in a good place.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Comfortable victory against Lille. I mean, it took them time to get the goal, they had lots of chances, and then once they got one, it was like, like the domino effect. And he obviously mixed it up a little bit, you know, Georg Kres came in, one or two other players that are not left. And he can do that, because he's, you'd look at United, they haven't really got the strength in depth. But you look at a team like Arsenal and Manchester City, who I've just watched in an extraordinary game of football. I mean, the strength in depth that they've got, obviously there's, you know, there's slight asterisk against the strength in depth that City have got. But having said all that, you know, United are not near that at the moment. But, but Arsenal are in a good place.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are. I mean, it was similar to what happened. I know Little didn't score, but as soon as Arsenal got one, it was a matter of, it just went bang, bang, bang, didn't it? In terms of the passing and moving, the belief and the, the strut that they had once that first goal went in. And then they got the three. So, yeah, they're, they're in a really good place. They had a really good result at the weekend. They had to get that after the defeat a few weeks ago. So, yeah, they're, they're, they're very confident and so they should be.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. But Kai Saka, we, we talked about a little bit at the weekend, he came on and instantly had a goal and an assist. And I think that won't do him any harm. I mean, I know he's a really good footballer anyway, but every, all players, we have a dip at some point in our careers, you have a little difficult spell and you've got to come through it. Might be a little bit of a turning point, I don't know, because confidence is, confidence is everything, isn't it? And you just do something like that and it's a really cool finish, and you think to yourself, ah, that's, that's the Saka we know. That's it.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. Because it, and it might do him the world of good as not starting and coming on and scoring and getting the, getting the assist. And yeah, you're right. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if he were to get another one at the weekend.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Let's stick with the, the Tuesday nights games for a bit. Just a couple of the, the talking points apart from Arsenal's comfortable victory. Barcelona, they came from one down. It looked like it was going to be two down, but there was, there was an offside. And then I just want to talk about that bit of skill from Lamine Yamal. I mean, who'd try, I mean, you, you might, well, neither of us would have ever tried that, even in training or known how, I mean, I just went, did I just see that? Did I actually just see what he did? I mean, I know it hit the defender and it came, but even then, the way he controlled it, it was just like, I just love watching that kid play.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  Honestly, I was travelling back on the plane this morning, back from, back from Madrid, and I must have watched it 12 times. And every time I thought, how the fuck has he done that?

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Every time it gets better.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  It was like, how, how, I mean, I just think, you're right, I wouldn't, we, we wouldn't even attempt to try that because we'd make a right tit of ourselves.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  Fall over.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  But yeah, we probably would do, yeah, and get an injury. But he, I mean, how on earth he did that? I don't think I've seen that before. It was, it was an incredible piece of skill.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  I know. I mean, it really was. I mean, bloody extra. What a player. And even that, before that, the little kind of, I don't know whether you call it a pass or a cross, the little like bend, I mean, so good.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Just perfection, wasn't it?

• 18:00Speaker 00

  So good. Another goal.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  The way it passed.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  And obviously that bit of skill led to a goal for Anthony Gordon. That's two goals in two games. He's doing really well.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Flying, flying. He's a different player at Barcelona to what you saw at Newcastle last season.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  What do you see differently?

• 18:13Speaker 03

  I just think he's-

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Playing with better players, I suppose, but helps.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  I get that, yeah. And he, he looks very comfortable in the environment. He looks very confident in everything he's doing. And even his interviews, his interviews are coming across as, as really confident as well. He seems as if he's having the time of his life.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  It's good to see English players doing well. And another English player doing well was Harry Kane. We talked about Lamine Yamal's bit of brilliance on two occasions, two incredible assists. Harry Kane, two goals and a brilliant assist as well. And the two of them are going head to head. Harry's now shifted slightly to favour it. I don't know whether you've noticed.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Has he gone to favour, has he?

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's gone to fa, I mean, I don't know whether they know anything. It's just normally, normally influenced by people having wages down there. And I suppose that bookmakers are English, so there's a slight bias towards Harry Kane. I think it's touch and go, which one will get it. Obviously, we hope it's Harry, because we, you know, I think Lamine Yamal's got many, many Ballon d'Ors to come.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  Absolutely, definitely.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  I look at Lamine Yamal and I see- I don't see like it not quite Messi, I see a bit more, a bit more Neymar about him than, I mean, if you, I mean, we do like to compare people, but I mean, he's almost-

• 19:29Speaker 03

  It's not a bit of both, I mean, sounds-

• 19:31Speaker 00

  A bit of both, I mean, that's, I mean, that's pretty good, isn't it?

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, a bit of both, he's got that kind of showboaty bit that, that Neymar has, because he'd do those incredible little bits, but he's also, I think, got, I don't know whether he's got the drive of Messi, we'll see over a period of time, it depends, but I mean, God, what a, what a talent.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  When you pay your money for your ticket, you need to be entertained, and that's what he does, he entertains, he's a brilliant entertainer at such a young age.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, we certainly were entertained over the last two nights of Champions League football, Bayern Munich as well, two down, go three to up, then it goes to three, three. Have you seen, I'm gonna have a little bit of a rant here.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Get it off your chest, what is it, go on.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  The Elise right red card, right?

• 20:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Obviously, he pulls him back, so he gets, he's gonna get a yellow.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Zlatko Trippich then has a little dig in his back, and he grabs the ball, he's got the ball, and I've seen it described as, he's really stupid, he's an idiot, he threw the ball, and to a degree, there's a, there's a sense of truth about that, but he goes like that, he just like flicks it up. I mean, that could not possibly hurt anyone, it just lands softly on the fellow's head. He's then on the floor for two minutes, for me, Trippich should be the fellow that getting a red card, because I think we need to get rid of this nonsensical acting and trying to get other players sent off.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Yes, you can say that Elise was stupid and he'll miss the Arsenal game, which is coming next week, but at the same time, come on.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  It's embarrassing, isn't it? I mean, can you imagine doing that 30 years ago? You'd get absolutely hammered for going down.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Your teammates would have a go at you.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, you would.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  I remember, we had a player, can you remember Naim?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Naim from the halfway line, remember, he scored the goal, didn't he, from the halfway line against Arsenal? And I played with him, I played with him at Barcelona as well.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  You played for Barcelona, did you?

• 21:35Speaker 00

  So did Naim.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  Yes, and, and he, you know, and he was, let's say he was prone to a bit of a dive every night, because it was kind of, that was what was done, and he, he used to, he was doing it, he was diving, I mean, you say to him, you can't do that here, mate, you can't, you can't do that shit.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  What did he say when you said that?

• 21:58Speaker 00

  I just laughed, yeah, yeah, yeah, he laughed, and to be honest, he learnt, and he was a great lad, a really good, and he was a very good footballer. And he, and he, he listened, he listened, but I don't think that, it doesn't seem to happen anymore.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  I don't think it does, you're right, I just don't think they would say anything in a dressing room, I just think it's sort of accepted that, well, if the ball hits you on the head and someone's just, I mean, it wasn't even, it wasn't a proper throw, it was just a throw up, wasn't it?

• 22:25Speaker 00

  No, it was just like, it reminded me, well, it's different because it was to a referee, but Ray Wilkins, 1986 World Cup, you need to be a certain age to remember this, if not, look it up, he got sent off a straight red for kind of throwing the ball, sort of, not particularly aggressively at the referee.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  And he got a straight red, and it cost, you know, it nearly cost us, we managed to hang on for a draw and get through, someone got a hat-trick out.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  Sorry, sorry, apologies. So, yeah, so those things, I mean, those things happen, and Elise will, will look at himself and think, oh, what was I thinking, what was I thinking?

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Well, whilst, whilst we're on red cards, did you see the, did you see the red card that was, the appeal for Brighton was successful? They got it wrong again.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  You were saying they were gonna apologise.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Well, I said at the time, we'll be getting, we'll be getting another apology for another ridiculous decision, wasn't it? I mean, it was just-

• 23:24Speaker 00

  I just can't see how they didn't see that.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Well, the referee got it right, the referee on the pitch-

• 23:29Speaker 00

  He did.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Got it right at the time.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Although he could have given a free kick.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, he could have, but he didn't.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  He could have given a free kick, but he didn't, and you could argue whether it was a foul, and it probably was, but there was no way ever that that wasn't going-

• 23:42Speaker 03

  To the keeper.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  I mean, it was a mistake, people make mistakes, but it needs, I mean, how many times do we say? It was, it was obviously not a howler.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Before we go on to, there's a couple of games I wanna talk to about, well, tonight's game, but first, we've got, I presume you watched the City game?

• 24:03Speaker 03

  I did, I watched the City.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  I mean, what a game, do you know what? If you get games of football like that, I'm all for cheating.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  I mean, PSG were done, weren't they, a few years ago, and now, you know, Manchester City's obviously a different level, but I mean, what a game of, I mean, it was incre, I mean, chance after chance, and shot after shot.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  You remember last season when Bayern Munich played PSG?

• 24:32Speaker 00

  PSG, it was similar.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  It was an amazing game.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Where that was pretty similar, but some of, some of the stuff that, some of the football that PSG played in that first half, that's as good as you're gonna see for a long, long time.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  And City in the second half.

• 24:46Speaker 03

  Like, City were brilliant in the second half, the changes Maresca made worked perfectly, bringing Bouadi on.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  And Jai was really good as well.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was just a brilliant game of, brilliant game of football. Two players, two sets of teams going head to head in the, in the belief in the way they play. It was, it was a brilliant game of football.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  I mean, Erling will score two goals and he'll be actually, I'll be thinking, I don't know, get any more. Donnarumma had an interesting night, I thought he was, you know, I know the first goal was really good, but it was his near post, you, you thought he probably should have saved it. Then he kind of almost made a really good save and it loops into the back of the net, then he saves a penalty. You forget there's a missed penalty as well.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 00

  I mean, what a game. I mean, you know, Luis Enrique's football, I just, I just love it, the full backs bomb on, and it's just really, really pleasing on the eye.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  There were so many talented players in that team, though, so many talented players.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Khabib Keita came on as well.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, yeah, I mean, I, I guess, I guess they're gonna be favourites to go and win it again, I mean, that one achievement that would be, to go and win it three times, and I guess they're the favourites to do it, because of who they've got and the experience. And, yeah, they're just such a bloody good team, it's unbelievable. I wonder what that bloke in the glasses thought of them tonight?

• 26:05Speaker 00

  We'll find out, we'll find out very shortly, Alan, this is the, I'll be speaking to him in the morning, I, maybe, I've got glasses too.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  I'll keep, I'll keep them on. A quick word on Real Madrid as well, they were 3-1 down, you know, 84 minutes, and came back and managed to win, yeah, Rudiger scored in the 90th minute, 91st minute, so-

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Jose needed that, didn't he?

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Well, he's, what a turn, I mean, 3-1 down, 3-1 losing, you know, you think, oh, he's gonna be under pressure a little bit from that one, but he managed to get the, get the victory. So, all right, Alan, I'll talk to the guy with the glasses in the second half. And I shall see you, I shall see you, well, this is, this is going out Friday, so actually we'd have already seen you, so it's all very confusing, isn't it? Let's, let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by Guinness. Some things are just part and parcel of match day, and with the weather getting colder and cosy season kicking in, for a lot of us, it's the pub, particularly you, Alan.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Hey, can't beat a little good pint, can you?

• 27:15Speaker 00

  There we go. Oh, yes, that sound, I'm getting good at this now, you know?

• 27:20Speaker 03

  You're getting used to it, aren't you, it shouldn't be the pints.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  I'm looking, I'm looking out.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're not bad, Micah.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  What makes a good pub?

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Good people, good pints, and good crack, and especially before match.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  Why have we not been invited to this pub?

• 27:33Speaker 00

  That's a very good point, Micah.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  You're invited every single week, boys, whenever you want.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Sounds good. Make your match day a lovely day for a Guinness official beer and non-alcoholic beer of the Premier League. Search for pubs serving Guinness near you with the Guinness Pub Finder. You might even find one that's made it into the Guinness Harp Guide for pulling a particularly good pint. 18 plus for the facts, visit drinkaware.co.uk, please drink responsibly.

• 28:06Speaker 01

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• 29:10Speaker 00

  Welcome back to The Rest Is Football, now with me, Gary Lineker and Micah Richards. So I was, obviously we don't get your coverage, but we all get some of your social clips and you went down well with Diego Simeone.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  What? Hey, I don't like to mention it, guys. But you know what? Let's mention it anyway, you know? Essentially on CBS, after the game, we have the interviews and it's very difficult depending obviously on the result, but we've had some amazing guests coming. So we've had Mbappe, Olise is always really good because he doesn't really give you much, but you know he's holding back a little bit, but he's such a nice guy and Thierry coached him as well. So that's always a good interview.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  I'm just going to interrupt you slightly there, Mike, just for a moment because you mentioned Elise there and I did it with Alan, his red card. I don't, you didn't speak to after the game this time, presumably because he got a red card. He got two yellows, didn't he?

• 30:10Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  I thought the guy that was laying, rolling on the floor should have been the one who got the red card.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  It was embarrassing, wasn't it?

• 30:17Speaker 00

  It was pathetic. We've got to do something about that kind of nonsense in the game because Elise just went, it was like, uh, a kind of, and it just went, I mean, it was, ah!

• 30:29Speaker 04

  It's ridiculous. You're screaming at the TV, yeah, it's so annoying.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  I know. Anyway, on to Simeone.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  But anyway, on to Simeone and we're doing interviews, doing it in Spanish and all that sort of stuff. I haven't got a clue what's going on. Obviously Thierry speaks Spanish, Kay speaks Spanish. But before we go, we always say, who's your favourite on this show? Essentially, who do you like the most from the clips you see on Instagram or social media, whatever? And the question was asked and you know what was funny about it? It didn't even say my name. It probably doesn't because he didn't know.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Know your name, Micah, that's why.

• 31:06Speaker 04

  It just said the one with the glasses.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  He said the guy with the glasses. I said it to Alan the first half. I was going, he didn't have a clue who Micah was.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  He didn't have one single clue who I was.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  Anyway, you didn't, you owned it.

• 31:25Speaker 04

  I'll take it. I'll take it.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  I think, obviously, I think Diego Simeone's favourite would obviously have been Thierry Henry, but I think he'd probably forgotten Thierry's name. So he's probably figured it's less embarrassing to say the guy with the glasses than it would be to have forgotten Thierry Henry's name.

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Brilliant. It's been a great week though for Champions League football, guys, now.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  Really good. Do you know what? I don't know whether I'm going to go in a bit earlier and I said it without, it's not too many low blocks around at the moment.

• 31:56Speaker 04

  No, there's not.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  And the game, the game is benefiting from that. There's a lot, you know, and I know the jeopardy is not huge at the moment in the Champions League and perhaps that teams feel a little bit free, but even, you know, we'll talk about them as well because both Villa and Liverpool banged in six goals. Obviously, we saw the incredible game between City and PSG and you expect that from PSG. We know how they play. But I just thought even the teams that played like Atene Bache and Lask, they both, they didn't, no, no one was just sitting deep and trying to get a 0-0 or a 1-0. So I think it's, I just, I'd be lovely, wouldn't it, if the age of the low block was over?

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Well, there's, yeah, I don't, I think it depends. Arsenal play low block and they do it really well, get to a Champions League final and win the Premier League. But in terms of entertainment for the viewer, like us guys who are watching it, yeah, we don't like seeing low block. But it is good. I think there is something nice in the art of defending as well, because I don't, I don't think defenders want to defend. No one defends a back post anymore. The cross comes in from one side, the defender, say at the right back, I'm just looking at the ball. All they have to do is all put up their shoulders. That's all they have to do so you can see the ball and who's coming in.

• 33:19Speaker 04

  You can put your arm in or you can try and head the ball. It's just, it's ridiculous. It annoys me because I feel as though defending's gone out of the game. And yes, we want to see attacking football, but we can still see the art of defending, even it's one on one defending. We don't see a lot now and it's, yeah, it's frustrating for a defender to watch.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  It's frustrating for a defender. It's not, it's not frustrating for us that actually enjoy watching the important part of football. What about the City PSG game?

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh. What a game.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  What a game.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  PSG, oh my, they're a delight out there.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  In the first half, they were unbelievable. I mean, City in the second half, I mean, they were chasing it obviously, but I mean, they were really, really good. But PSG, my goodness, in that first half.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  You know, you know what? Before the game, I was going to do a tactical piece on City and City and the new midfield with Enzo, Anderson and Shirkie's played a lot this season. And I was reluctant to do the analysis because I thought I could look stupid here essentially in the way they set up. So Shirkie's been amazing. He's been absolutely amazing. But last night I watched the Man City Sunderland game back and when Brobby got the hat trick. There's elements of that game I didn't like at all, but because City won the game 5-3, it's almost like it was swept on the carpet.

• 34:50Speaker 04

  A new manager, Maresca, tactically, we know he's got it. The Club World Cup with Chelsea, high press, he was aggressive, did really well. So I thought against PSG, what are Man City going to do? When I saw the midfield, I thought, ooh, with the legs of PSG, the movement, the awareness in the centre of the park, Man City could get exposed here if they don't keep the ball. And the game was in the balance. I think the possession was 50-50. But what we learned yesterday that Shirkie off the ball, it's not his greatest asset at all. On the first goal, which was really frustrating to watch, so Man City are trying

• 35:33Speaker 04

  to press high, which is good. Haaland starts the press, but then Shirkie goes, someone runs by him and he doesn't know whether he's supposed to go with that player or press. So he's in that position now. So if you're forward in the offensive position, just go to the nearest man. If you're in doubt and you want to press high, just go to the nearest man. He's late in going and now you've got Anderson who's out of position because he's sort of working off what Shirkie's doing. And then you've got Enzo as your deepest midfielder, when actually that's where you want Anderson there. I've lauded Anderson for where he's played, especially this season at England. I think tactically and his spatial

• 36:15Speaker 04

  awareness is a lot better. But it was all, it was all mixed up and soon as you give PSG that time and space, they are gonna hurt you. It was sad to see because I thought going forward, that three looked really good. It looked really adventurous. City were keeping the ball, scoring a lot of goals and that is still great. But off the ball against top teams, Shirkie will find it difficult.

• 36:40Speaker 00

  He's like an old fashioned maverick kind of player, isn't he?

• 36:43Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  One of those. I mean, great to watch when he's on the ball.

• 36:47Speaker 04

  And they're amazing. Let's not just be critical because Man City, what he's done up to now has been amazing and it's been great to watch. All the goals that he scored, right foot, left foot, the way he slows it down, the way he entertains people. You talked about the goals of the game. He's part of that. It's just that next step now. If he wants to be a top, top player, he's got to do this defensive side of the game as well.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  I suspect he won't.

• 37:17Speaker 04

  He won't do the defensive work?

• 37:18Speaker 00

  No, he strikes me as the player, as kind of player that not, won't necessarily buy into that. I don't know, I might be completely wrong about his personality or his character, but there are certain aspects that I see. That's why I mentioned that maverick thing. They don't really want to do it particularly that way, but they're very happy on the ball going forward and it'd be interesting to see how they, how he copes, whether he does buy into that overall. I mean, nowadays, you really have to, don't you?

• 37:48Speaker 04

  Yes, you do have to, but you could also alter the way you set up. You don't have to press as high maybe.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  That's the big change of your overall, the way you play the game.

• 38:00Speaker 04

  But if he's that special, you mentioned the word maverick, you said at the World Cup, Messi's not run for 10 years, but Messi's that special. I'm not comparing Shirkie to Messi before someone's in my DMs saying, what are you talking about?

• 38:15Speaker 00

  Before Messi slides into your DMs, Micah, and says, well, I'm not sure.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  But I'm saying, if he's going to be important for Man City, then maybe you might have to taper exactly what you want to do, because he has been brilliant.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  I'd love that. I'd love that Lionel Messi slides into your DMs, Micah, and says, excuse me, I know you're the guy with the glasses, but can you, can you not?

• 38:41Speaker 04

  I've had some messy DMs, but it's not me Lionel, I know that, I know that.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, fabulous stuff. I mean, PSG probably have to be the favourite, so I would have thought. I watched Real Madrid as well, flicking on that one. I mean, what a game that was. That's a funny, slightly bonkers game. Roma 3-1 up, obviously Mourinho's former club, they love him there. So he goes back 3-1 down, six minutes to go. And then he started just conceding from corners. It was

• 39:11Speaker 04

  It was odd.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Which is not normally the way you would see Real Madrid necessarily scoring goals, but, but they have got, obviously, the likes of Rudiger and people like that, so there's always a possibility.

• 39:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you look at the overall game, obviously, Man City, PSG was our, was our main game, but we had all the games on. And they just looked a little bit disjointed, I would say. I think they showed character to, to stay in the game and then get the win at the end with Rudiger. But it's not fluid at the moment. And you watch more La Liga than, than I do. But Barcelona look good. Betis look good this season as, as well, don't they?

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, they do. They're doing really well. But Barca, I mean, they're averaging over, over four goals a game.

• 39:54Speaker 04

  They look tasty.

• 39:55Speaker 00

  I mentioned it with Al, because you've got to get a view of the bit of Lamine you have, the little skill. Oh my word. That was a new one on me. I see, I've seen people flick, kick the ball like that, but it was, but not to themselves.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no. To be fair, to be fair though.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  He did get a deflection off the defender. But even then, he managed to manipulate the ball and hold on to it. Almost, almost Suarez-esque in that sense. But that skill was obviously deliberate.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Mbappe is my favourite player.

• 40:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 04

  But Lamine the Dream, I think last season, I was saying, Pavaschelier, the way he performed, especially towards the end, the end of the season, I, I thought he was the best. I think he was underrated because he didn't get the limelight of other players because he plays for Georgia. I honestly believe that.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Hence not going to the World Cup.

• 40:41Speaker 04

  Yes. But Lamine the Dream, he, he, he started best this season. He, he's took his game to, to the next level. He, he's at Lamine before he got injured. And even, even more, he, he, he's the best player. He's the best player right now.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  I said to Al, he's, for me, he's a little bit more Neymar than Messi.

• 41:01Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  Al said, I see a bit of both, which is, I mean, can you imagine that?

• 41:08Speaker 04

  I do see a bit of both though. I, I, I think, when, when he first burst onto the scene, he was, he was doing loads of skills and stuff. But actually, if you watch him, especially in the World Cup, he was picking the right moment. But say they're a goal or two up, then, then he just turned, I'm, I'm going to throw in Ronaldinho. I'm going to throw in Ronaldinho. That's what I'm going to throw in.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  His, his balance, his skill, his timing, his passing, you know, his outside of the foot passing with his left foot. It's ridic, ridiculous, ridiculous. What, what a player, what a talent.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  Oh, he's, he's so good. Good wins, I mean, comfortable wins for both Liverpool and Aston Villa. You were straight on the chat last night when Nicholas Jackson got a couple of goals, the oracle. The, I mean, you're just, you're the oracle that just keeps on oracling.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  No, I've got a few wrong. Verz, Verz is letting me down at the moment.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  He did all right last, last night, but let's say against not particularly strong opposition.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  I'm telling you that there's something, I don't know if it's the physicality, I don't know if it's the system. I don't know if I'm in denial, but the player I saw growing up in Germany, he definitely has got more to give. Like you said, he got an assist yesterday.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  Did a lovely little nutmeg as well at one point.

• 42:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I, he's a, he's a talented player. He's a really talented player. I think he's sort of in between systems at the moment. I think if he was in a team which was more possession based, if he was playing for Man City, say, un, under Pep, I think he would be amazing. But Liverpool have been great over the years because of how they transition, how, how quick they go from, from, from back to front. And sometimes it doesn't suit him. Is he a left winger? Is he a number 10? But the way Liverpool have, have done so well is because they've been able to, that their number 10 has been able to press, whether he puts a boss line there, whether it's energy of a Milner or a Henderson, that's where they've, they've been good, haven't they, Liverpool?

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Good for Barclay to get, I mean, a hat-trick, because confidence is really important, particularly when you go to a new football club and you're trying to feel your way. And it's not been obviously easy so far. So that would do him the world of good.

• 43:21Speaker 04

  He's a good, he's a good player, the Barclay. I, I mean, he's just

• 43:25Speaker 00

  We know that.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Again, it's transfer fees, isn't it? That, that's all it is. When you come for big money and you come for PSG, and then you get more scrutiny. So for him to get a hat-trick, you know, he does what Barclay does.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Yep. Nicholas Jackson is obviously the one

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Hey, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, the oracle, Nicholas. I'm telling you guys, trust in big meets, please. Just tr, just trust in me from time to time. His two finishes were brilliant. His hold-up play was great again. Again, one of the most underrated strikers in European football. I'll say it again.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  He's 25 though, Micah. He's been around, do you know what I mean?

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Hey, hey, we, we can see you looking to your left to see

• 44:09Speaker 00

  I just asked him to get me his age because I know he's been around a while.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  No, no, he's been around a while, but around at the level of this. We, we're getting more scrutiny, I, I would say. Because he got more scrutiny when he went to Chelsea.

• 44:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I watched him quite a lot, obviously, even when he was at Villarreal, I saw him. And I think that there is a lot of ability in there. There is a striker in there. Or what he needs to do now is, is be consistent to elevate himself into a level of world-class striker. I mean, he's, obviously, I think it's good for him working with his former manager again.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  Emery, yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  I think he's given him a lot of credit, hasn't he, Jackson, for, for teaching him the game, Unai Emery. So I think that that will help him. But you see him and you, when he's performing well, you go, he's got, he's got it all. I mean, he can hold it up. I mean, makes runs, he gets behind, he's quick, and he can finish. And so you wondered to yourself, why is this guy not scoring 20-odd goals every season?

• 45:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  And I know he's, you know, one or two knocks, everybody has that, but you just think, and he's now 25. He's in his absolute prime now. The, the, from, I, I always think you're prime for most players. He's around from 23 to 29. He's probably a bit older nowadays as well, because, you know, with all the things that they do. So interesting to watch his progress because you, you're right. There is a really fucking good centre-forward in there, but can he do it consistently? I wonder whether it's a confidence thing, maybe he's a little bit streaky. When things are going well, he looks great. Maybe he struggles. You don't know, because, because the mental side of the game is as important as anything.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  So from what you see with your own eyes, when you're watching play, when he's playing well, you go, wow. But then sometimes you see him and it's, it's not that. And you just wonder whether he's got, you know, the ultimate belief that you need as a centre-forward in your, in your, in yourself and your ability to score goals consistently.

• 46:19Speaker 04

  Do you think he's ever been the main man though? At Chelsea, there's, there are question marks. And then obviously Bayern, he's not going to play ahead of, of Kane. Is there something in, I don't know about in your career, where, you know, you know what's so annoying? Asking you and Al questions, because you look like the greatest to do it. So you, you can't relate to what Jackson's going through.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Well, you don't want to ask, ask some journeyman useless League Two striker what their opinion is, do you?

• 46:50Speaker 04

  But in terms of, there must be, you, you talked about when he's at Barcelona and you got thrust into the right wing. And obviously, you were frustrated. But I, I think Jackson's doing well and will continue to do well because he's the main striker at Aston Villa. And he's got the confidence, like you mentioned, confidence. And he's got a manager who believes in him. And if you know, if you have a bad game and he's still playing the next week, you, you've got that confidence that you can get it right.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I would point to what you're saying there, the fact that he's never really been the main striker. He was for Chelsea for a bit, but maybe he's not made himself into the main striker by not being quite consistent enough. I hope he does, because I really like watching him play. And he's, I mean, he had a couple of things, didn't he, at Chelsea, where he got himself sent off?

• 47:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 00

  So I wonder about, I mean, I don't know him, I've never met him, but I watch players and strikers in particularly that go through little scoring spurts and then little droughts, I always think, hmm. You know, are they being able to cope mentally when things are not going against them? This would be a good thing. He is now the main striker. Who not, he's with a guy that knows him really well, Unai Emery, who's coached him at Villarreal. So it'd be, I think it'd be interesting to see. But I totally get what you're saying, because I've seen him so many times, you think, wow, you know, he's really, he's got it all. But has he got that between the ears?

• 48:18Speaker 04

  I, I think he has. Just, just to conclude on him, I, I, I think going from Villarreal to Chelsea and Chelsea, who historically have won the Champions League and the Premier League, is always going to be different.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  And also, it's fair to point in his defence that Chelsea are going, have been through in the last few seasons, ups and downs, different coaches, club run badly at the top, all those sorts of things do filter down.

• 48:43Speaker 04

  Okay, let me ask you a question. What is a successful season in the, just say Premier League? Goal-scoring wise for, for Jackson, would you?

• 48:52Speaker 00

  20 plus.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  20, 20 plus?

• 48:55Speaker 00

  Micah, Mikey, even in my day, right, when it was harder to score goals, genuinely, because you see the ratios now, the top strikers compared with, in my day, 20 is your bare minimum.

• 49:10Speaker 04

  Twenty is a lot, you know.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  For a top, you know, if you're talking top strikers, Mike, do you think Erling Haaland, I'll tell you now, if he had a season where he didn't score 20 goals, and I had one in my career where I didn't score 20 goals, apart from when I was on the right wing at Barcelona, I had one season and I scored 15, and for me it was like the end of the world. So if you're talking about being a top striker, 20 is your absolute minimum requirement for me, in any team.

• 49:40Speaker 04

  In any, in any team.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Well, I, I, two seasons at Leicester, I scored 24, 23, my last two seasons before I moved to Everton. We nearly got relegated one of those seasons. So I think you've got, if you want to be, I'm talking about if you want to be the top striker, one of the world's leading strikers, you can't be satisfied, you, you should be really, really disappointed with anything under 20.

• 50:03Speaker 04

  I'll give him 15 to 18, 15 to 18.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  I'm not saying, you're predicting what he's going to get, but you think that's a really good season for him. 18.

• 50:11Speaker 04

  For a, for a strike, for a striker who is at Aston Villa, who've had to rebuild their team in the summer, if you get 15 to 18 goals, I think that's a successful season.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  I, I think it's just about acceptable possibly, but not for a top striker.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  What do you think Haaland will get, Villa?

• 50:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, but Haaland, what are we talking about?

• 50:33Speaker 00

  No, but that's what I'm talking about, to be the, to be the elite.

• 50:37Speaker 04

  No, no, no, he's not the absolute elite. Yes, I'll, I'll agree with that. He's, he's the, the level below that.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's an interesting conversation.

• 50:46Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  Okay, Micah, um, we'll let you go because you've been working, I know you don't like doing two days running, so.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Yes, you, you're working me, you're working me too hard. Hey, if it's not BBC, it's Sky, if it's not Sky, it's CBS, and if it's not CBS, it's Netflix. You're just working, you're just working me. I need a day's rest.

• 51:06Speaker 00

  Well, you, you can have a day's rest now, Mike.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  Thank you very much.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Okay, damn. So that's it for this episode. Goodbye from me and goodbye from the guy with the glasses.

• 51:15Speaker 01

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• 51:58Speaker 05

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• 52:28Speaker 02

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