England's Next Breakout Star? Josh King Meets TRIF

Fulham and England Under-21 midfielder Josh King joins TRIF for an illuminating conversation on what it was like to be called up by Thomas Tuchel for the World Cup training camp, how he's adjusting to life as one of Fulham's talismen under Alvaro Arbeloa and his ambitions to follow in the footsteps of Elliott Anderson, Rio Ngumoha, and Alex Scott by breaking into the senior squad There's also reflection from Gary, Alan and Micah on their Under-21 days including a remarkable claim from Big Meeks... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:03Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to The Rest Is Football with Alan Shearer, Micah Richards and me, Gary Lineker. Today, we're going to bring you an exclusive interview with one of England's brightest young talents and a man who is very much on Thomas Tuchel's radar. He is Fulham's Josh King. Our England reporter, Rob Jones, went up to St George's Park to speak to him and we'll bring you that chat in a moment. But first, Alan and Micah, a few memories from your days in the under-21s. I mean, Micah famously burst onto the scene.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  You were a captain as well, under-21s, weren't you, Micah?

• 2:38Speaker 04

  Oh, I honestly, under-21 level, I was probably the best player in the world, do you know that?

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  The best player in the world is a fullback.

• 2:58Speaker 04

  But I can't remember if I was 18 or 17.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  Well, you were in the England team at 18, weren't you, the full, 14?

• 3:04Speaker 04

  That's what I mean. I remember the 21s. I absolutely loved the 21s, going away.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  14 caps, three goals, three goals?

• 3:13Speaker 04

  Three goals, mate, I tell you. I tell, up until first team, I was unbelievable and then it dropped off.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  He doesn't say that lightly, by the way. He was the best player in the world.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  There he is, the self-deprecating Micah strikes again.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  I can guarantee you, Josh King doesn't say that about himself.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Oh my God. But yeah, I was, I was good, lads. But then we, I think the best moment, we had under-21 tournament in Sweden in the Euros. We got to the final, but we got beat 4-0 off Germany. I think they had Boateng playing, Ozil, Khedira, Neuer.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  But you were the best player in the world.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, I was playing with Matthew Crainy. Do you know who that is? Exactly.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Matthew Crainy's been called out.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  No, I'm only joking. Crainy was a, he was a good, great lad, great player as well. But yeah, they, their team was just better than us. And actually, I think if I was right, they was in our group and we'd won our first two games. So we played our B team against Germany, who needed to win to get out of the group. We drew with them 1-0 with our B team. So we got to the final with our first team, thinking we was going to batter them and they absolutely battered us. But yeah, I loved the 21s, it was great, it was great.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Alan, you, you've got quite an impressive record. 13 goals for the under-21s you scored.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  13 and 11, but I definitely wasn't the best player in the world at the time, guys.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  Even though I won the Player of the Tournament and Man of the Match in the final in Toulon, I definitely wasn't the best player in the world.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  Final of what? Oh, don't say Latour more, no, that was the 14.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Toulon, yeah, there was the under-21 tournament. We played France in the final, we beat them 1-0, scored. I think I got seven in four in that tournament.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  You did. You got a hat-trick?

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Two penalties, two penalties though.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Do they not count, no?

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Before we go on to listen, to listen to Josh, how important for you two was, was the under-21s in terms of your progression? I ask this question because I never played for any England representative side, not schoolboys, not under-16s, 17s, 18s, 21s, 23s as it used to be then. No, my first game for England was, was with the full team. I was kind of a late developer.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  I think I'm right in saying that. When I go back to that game, only saying it because of, I think it's massively important and I love my time with the, with the under-21s. But I think in the final, when we played France in that Toulon tournament, I think it might have been 1991, I look back at the team and there was only me and David James that went on to play for the full team.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Which I think is pretty, pretty rare. I think Zidane missed out on that final in France because he, he was suspended. But I don't think there were too many in the French, French team either, but I'm pretty certain it was just me and David James in the starting 11 that day that went on to play full international football for the, for England.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  It's often the case, isn't it? I mean, it's, you know, just because you're in the England and 21s, there's no guarantee that a few players.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  If you look at the last sort of under-21 tournaments that England have won, there are several players now that are coming up and starting to, starting to make and having a, having a great career.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that maybe the whole St George's Park thing as well and that they're all kind of in the same direction, on the same journey possibly. It couldn't have made that much of an impression on you, by the way, because it was Martin Crainy, not Matthew Crainy.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  I'm just looking at my team here, I just Googled it.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  What if he was that great, a lad who couldn't even get his fucking name right?

• 7:25Speaker 04

  Sorry, Crainy, man, sorry. He's sorry, he's going to kill me for this, guys, he's going to kill me. We had, we had Loach in there because Joe Art was suspended. He was doing some daft in the penalties game before, I think I, Crainy, me, Nade Manua.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  Do you remember Michael Mancian?

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Kieran Gibbs, Catamore, Muamba, Rodwell, Noble, Milner, Walcott.

• 7:51Speaker 00

  Milner, Walcott.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  That's a strong team.

• 7:53Speaker 04

  It's a strong team. Danny Rose was in the squad, Tomkins was in the squad, Taylor, Lewis, Stearman, we had a great team.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay, let's catch up with Josh King. He caught up with Rob Jones at St George's Park and he's a very smart lad.

• 8:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was watching on Sunday and I was like, it'd be really good if he scores. And just as I texted, you've got to book for diving. I was like, no, that's not what we're here for. Come on, Josh.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  How are we looking, champ? Still good? Still rolling.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  So St George's Park, does it still feel special every time you come? You pick up your kit, the three lions are on your chest and you're part of an England squad? Yeah, definitely. I think it's always a special feeling. I don't think the sort of the dream.

• 8:37Speaker 06

  Which I had when I was a kid really changes. I started coming to England or started in the setup when I was about fifteen, so it's been a few years now, but every time I sort of put on the shirt, you still get that sort of same buzz and that that same feeling of, I think proud is the, is the best way to describe it.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  When you talk about having dreams and this is the moment where you make everyone watching feel really old, when you, when you tell me about the players that you liked as a kid, because that's probably only about eight years ago, you're probably playing with some of them now, right?

• 9:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I think like from a sort of club perspective, I think one of my favourite players was actually Tom Cairney, who I am actually playing with now, which is a bit.

• 9:14Speaker 05

  You were a mascot with him, right?

• 9:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I was a mascot with him for the playoff semi-final, a long time ago now. But yeah, no, it's just a bit surreal really. Like, sometimes I've got a sort of snap out of it. Sometimes I'd be like, look, I'm, I'm playing with people who I used to look up to, which is, which is a great feeling, but I also just try and take as much of knowledge and, and information which they've sort of learnt throughout their careers on board with me.

• 9:37Speaker 05

  Is it a case with things like that, that you can walk into maybe a team room and you see a Harry Kane and you're a bit starstruck, for want of a better word, but the moment you go over that white line, you're all just players and, and it fades away a little bit?

• 9:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think that's the, the best way to describe it really. I think obviously there's times when you're seeing players who you've looked up to, who are high, high performers. I think, like you say, an example that is Harry Kane or someone like Jude Bellingham or players who are playing at the pinnacle of football. But then when you actually get onto the pitch, it's sort of that, those thoughts sort of fade away and you just go and show your stuff. And I think that's the most important thing. Like at the end of the day, we're all football players and I feel like if you end up playing with those players, then you obviously deserve to be there.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  Being with the twenty ones for a moment, when the squad was confirmed last week, was there a tinge of disappointment that you weren't in that first team squad? Are you, are you okay with where you're at right now?

• 10:30Speaker 06

  Nah, to be totally honest, there was no disappointment. I feel like for me, the main thing this season was just perform as well as I can. I think I was really grateful for that opportunity in the summer, for the pre-camp before the tournament started at the World Cup. And I think like that for me is just giving me extra motivation almost to sort of like kick on and just try to perform. And I think for me, like it's, it's all about timing. I think God's in control and, and whenever I'll, I'll get that opportunity, it will, it will come and I, and I'll take it with, with open hands.

• 11:02Speaker 05

  Let's start then by looking back at the summer and that camp in Palm Beach and what you took from that.

• 11:08Speaker 06

  I think for me, it was more about just going there and being someone who was willing to learn and willing to just get involved with everything. And I think obviously from the get-go, I knew that I was there to help other players and obviously take on information. Um, so in that sense, I was just happy to, to be a part of it and to be someone who could sort of say at the end of the World Cup, wherever the team got to, that I had been a part of something special. So for that, that was my motivation. And I think where we ended up was, I was really proud of, of the team and and what all the coaching staff and the players put into it. It was, it was really impressive what we achieved.

• 11:44Speaker 05

  It's interesting that you have that presence of mind to think it's not all about you and you were part of the training squad, because it would be quite easy, I guess. Would that have been the first time that you, you met Thomas Tuchel?

• 11:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 05

  So it'd be, it'd be quite easy to go and try all your tricks and think, I've got to impress him. And, you know, if, if I do that, then I'll be in the next squad where you think, well, I'll just go and, and do my bit and try and help the guys around me. And then the manager sees what the manager sees, I guess.

• 12:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, of course. And I think the manager knows the quality which I have from watching me week in, week out. So I don't think that was really ever the goal. I think I was there because obviously they know that I'm a good player and I have quality and same with the other three boys you came with. But I think obviously we're there to, to help everyone else and just to be a part of something and, and sort of fit into the team and, and help wherever we can.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  What's he said to you since and what conversations did you have out in, in Palm Beach about how he saw you and what he wanted from you in terms of development with England?

• 12:42Speaker 06

  We had a few conversations in Palm Beach, obviously. Mainly more tactical to be fair, just like positional based and stuff. I think in the actual training camp, I played a little bit sort of out positioned, tried to, like I was filling in in positions where maybe I wouldn't usually play, but I was happy to do that. Obviously, we were missing a few players. I think the Arsenal boys had all just finished the Champions League a little bit.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  So you were mainly been out wide?

• 13:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, so I was in wider positions, um, which I think is also good for my development, to be able to play in lots of different positions. And yeah, we had conversations about a few tactical stuff and then just more on a personal note, just like welcome to the team and, and obviously enjoy yourself and, and yeah, but no, I, since then, we we haven't spoken too much. I saw him in the, in the lobby the other day and he said, well done, um, on the start of the season and just keep going. And that's all, that's all the motivation.

• 13:32Speaker 05

  You're clearly on the radar though, aren't you? And he, you know, he knows and he can bring you in if, if he wants to at any point. That position as well, number ten, such an interesting spot because there are so many different types of players and you think of the two he's used the most, a big Jude and Morgan, a big physical guys, which is, is very different to you.

• 13:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'd agree. I think obviously football players, we all come in different shapes and sizes and I think that's part of the reason why I'm not disappointed about not getting called up is because of the fact of how good those number tens are. Obviously the competition is, is really good and it's strong and it motivates me to, to do better. But obviously people like Jude and, and Morgan and, and Cole and players like that, they're, they're such high performers that obviously like to, to be in that position and even to be in the conversation is, is, is really, really good. So, yeah, I think they're all we're all a little bit different, but I think in that sense, it's probably good that I'm different because I offer something slightly different. Um, in the way that I, in the way that I play the game.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  To go back to Palm Beach, when you return from that or when you're sat on holiday, do you realise that you've learnt things that maybe you didn't at the time? And I still remember back to the very first day that we got to see you train and Jordan Henderson had his arm around you and, and I, I remember saying, anyone who wonders why he's here, this is why he's here to help people like you and his leadership. And even sometimes when you're just watching the way that, whether it's him or Harry Kane, just operates on a day-to-day basis, you pick things up.

• 15:01Speaker 06

  Hundred percent. I think after you sort of have time to reflect and think like, wow, that was an incredible experience. And you start to think back about things which had happened and, and then you sort of take stuff from that. I think you sort of touched on it, but the way that some of the more senior players hold themselves and the way they conduct themselves and they work every day, like their professionalism is, is something which is really admirable. And I think it's something which obviously I try to implement. I think having such good role models is like so important. And I was really grateful as well because people like Henderson and, and Kane and Bellingham, they all sort of took me under their wing a bit. And I think that just sort of helped me settle in, but also then take information from them, which I can put into my own career.

• 15:45Speaker 05

  You, you seem pretty measured anyway though, and I'm not surprised because now I've heard your parents talk. They're very sensible and from what I heard from them, they weren't at all pushy. It's like, well, Josh is really good at football, so that's quite useful. And, and here you are, you've proved that. But mum's a university lecturer, right?

• 16:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 05

  So it's, it's, it's a smart family. What does, what does she lecture?

• 16:06Speaker 06

  She likes the nursing.

• 16:07Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 16:07Speaker 06

  Um, so she, she grew up as a, while doing nursing. And she's just finished, well, almost finished her PhD um, into sickle cell disease. So, so you can tell that's quite, quite a feat, which is, which is good. So I think that's part of the way and the reason I get my drive and, and I'm, I'm very grateful for them. And I think, yeah, it's very smart, smart family. And I think both my parents are just quite grounded people. Um, and very humble and that's sort of maybe been instilled into me a little bit. And they, when I was growing up, they sort of never put any pressure on me. Um, which I think has been part of the reason why I've done so well is just like,

• 16:48Speaker 06

  they sort of just said, go do, do it. And as long as you work hard in football and education, like we're happy for you to, to go and achieve whatever you want to achieve. And I think that is really, really it gives you the platform, you know, which you, you need to, to get to the highest level.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  Were they or you or both very strong on, on getting the A levels done and that side of it too? Because you've got, you've got three A levels, right?

• 17:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  And did you always want to have that as well as, as trying to make it as a footballer?

• 17:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, to be totally honest, it was probably my parents pushing it a little bit more than me.

• 17:22Speaker 05

  Sounds familiar, yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I think that would be with most, with most kids, but I was still happy to do it. Like I thought it was important. You, you never know what happens in life. Um, and I think it's always good to, to keep your brain active and and to just take on new information and learn. So I think it was important for me and I'm glad I did it, looking back on it. But yeah, I think once I hit sort of age of fifteen, sixteen, I was more just like, I want to play, I want to play. So I think it was a bit of both, but no, I was, I'm glad that I ended up doing A levels and stuff.

• 17:51Speaker 05

  Do you think that that intelligence in your family and clearly that you hold as well helps you as a footballer, that you, you feel you have a good football brain and an awareness of what's going on?

• 18:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I think one of the things which I'm good at is taking on information quite quickly. So when coaches like Lee, Carsley and people like that try to give me information, it's easier for me to take it on quickly and and, or if it's on the side of the game, in the middle of the game, it's easier to then tell people like this is how we need to change our tactics or whatever. So I think it helps in that sense. And obviously just, just understanding what you need to put into day-to-day. I'm never one to to give less than a hundred percent. And I think that's, that's so important. But I think just having that information and knowledge and that sort of platform is, is really important.

• 18:38Speaker 05

  Has it been straight? I know you obviously have a lot of coaches growing up and you talked about Lee there. Marco's not been at Fulham this year because he would obviously been the sole coach you've had as a professional senior footballer for your club. Has it been odd adapting to Alvaro Arbeloa?

• 18:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think it's obviously different, but I think it's been different in a good way, especially from an individual perspective. I think having Arbeloa as a new manager, he's given me a lot of freedom and a lot of confidence to go and try and perform and be the man to pull us forward a little bit. And I think that's really, really been helpful for me. But both managers, I'm so grateful for both of them. Marco Silva gave me my opportunity, which is, which is someone you can never really forget in football. And he, he taught me so much and he helped me to sort of grow gradually. And I think now Arbeloa has given me sort of the tools and the responsibility to go and show what I'm capable to do. So I'm really grateful to both of them. And I think they're different, but in, in good way.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  It was interesting, that phrase that you used there about pulling the team forward. And, and that was something that really struck me. Actually, I did a few Fulham games last season, but I was at the Palace game at the start of the season. I know you lost that game somehow, still not quite so out. But you stood out like a sore thumb in terms of being, to me, the best player on the pitch. But it felt like you were taking a bit of onus on yourself. And it wasn't like you're making it all about you, but you want to be the man that the team goes through.

• 19:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think obviously anybody who plays football, you, you want to be someone who the team can rely on when the chips are down. You know, you want to be someone who is going to pull the team forward when, when maybe we're not performing so well. So I think that for me has been important this season. I've, I've wanted to be someone who the team can rely on. And when things aren't going so well, someone who sort of steps up in those, in those moments. And I think I've been given sort of the confidence to do so, which is, which is really good. But I think on a, on, on the different side of it, I think there's a lot of like newer players at Fulham. Obviously, there's been a lot of change, new coaching staff and stuff. So now, even though I'm very young, I've become sort of a slightly more of a mature player in the team. So I think that's

• 20:40Speaker 06

  also helps in the sense that now I'm a little bit more vocal and I can help some of the younger players or players around me who are just joining and stuff get sort of find their feet, which is, which is really good.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  But it goes back to some of the players that we were talking about earlier. And I guess someone like Morgan Gibbs-White at Nottingham Forest, he is that talismanic figure. Morgan Rogers had it a little bit when he was at Villa, Eze at Palace, that when you're not at one of the, the elite clubs, that's a good thing to be. And maybe England managers notice a little bit. And it's not all about, well, every time I get the ball, I'm going to have a shot. But, you know, I have a bit of something about me that, as you said, dragged the team through the tough times.

• 21:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, definitely. I think for sure Fulham is a, an elite club. I would say that we're, we're a team which makes it really, really hard for, for other teams when we play against them. And I think, yeah, it's good to be that person who the team can rely on and the, the fans can really sing about. But I also think that, like, like we spoke about, it's, it's a team game and you have to be a part of the team. You have to work for the team. And, and it's really important to just sort of stay focused and, and help wherever you can with other players. And, and when, when things aren't going so well, be someone the team can rely on. But when things are going well, be, be someone who's pulling the team with them.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  Final couple of questions then. When we talk about under-21s duties, is it a similar vibe that when you're there, but you know you're not too far from the senior squad? When you play an under-21s game, again, is it about being, well, I want to stand out as, as the best player on the pitch tonight?

• 22:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think for me, I've always tried to be quite selfless in the way I play. I don't try to be too, like, I, I never want to be too selfish on the pitch. Obviously, you've, you've got to show what you can do. But I think there's sort of a balance between showing that you're a really good player and that you, you're one of the better players on the pitch, but also being a team player and working your socks off for the team. So I try to sort of show both if I can in the same sort of way, in the same game, just so that I'm showing my quality and showing people what I'm capable of, but also being someone who the team can rely on. And everybody at the end of the game says like, he works for the team, but he also shows himself as well.

• 22:51Speaker 05

  Obviously, you've said already that a lot of the decisions are the managers, that, whatever God's plan is, what will happen. But what would the sort of perfect year look like, particularly internationally? Is it a case that, that either in November or March, that chance might come with the seniors?

• 23:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, of course. I think that's the dream. I think that's, that's obviously what I want and what everyone surrounding me, my family, my friends, everyone surrounding me wants. I think that's, that, yeah, that's the dream. I would love to obviously play for the England senior team. But like I said at the start of the interview, like, I'm just focused on performing for Fulham, trying to be that sort of talisman. And I feel like the better I play at club level and for the 21s, the England, I think the, the rest will sort of, will come in time.

• 23:39Speaker 05

  Home Euros in two years is just such a nice thing for, for any young English player or any player of any age against English. That is such a great thing to try and aim for, to have two cracking seasons and, and hopefully you'll be there.

• 23:49Speaker 06

  Hundred percent. It's, it's a, I think it just makes it that more, that little bit more special, just being in England. And yeah, you've got the whole support of the country and you really feel that. And I think that's, that's something really special. So if that opportunity arises, I would, I'd be more than happy to, to take it.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  Appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

• 24:08Speaker 06

  Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Rob.

• 24:09Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Guinness. Now that the Premier League is back, we've had a few weeks to settle into those familiar matchday rituals. So what's your, do you have a plan at home, Alan?

• 24:23Speaker 03

  I do, yeah. If it's a three o'clock kickoff, then I'll go with my pals at half 12, one o'clock to the pub in town, have a couple of pints of Guinness and then walk up to St James's Park.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Micah, when you're not working?

• 24:36Speaker 04

  No, just in, well, at home, cinema room, you know, got the game on. Nice little Guinness.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  My favourite days are Sundays. Cook a roast before, boys come round, we sit down, watch the footballs. Nothing better than a little Guinness helps as well. Head to the Guinness GB Instagram page to see how you can get your own personalised glassware at select Tesco stores and enjoy your matchday pint in style like us. Make your matchday lovely with Guinness, official beer and non-alcoholic beer of the Premier League. 18 plus for the facts, visit drinkaware.co.uk. Please drink responsibly.

• 25:17Speaker 01

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• 25:47Speaker 02

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• 26:16Speaker 00

  I went to watch Fulham play, I think about three times at the Cottage last season. And each time Josh King stood out, even though one of the games he came on as sub and I thought, he was really impressive. He's making a lot of progress. Obviously, he talked about the fact that he's in a position where England have got some real talent at the moment. But what an intelligent, well-spoken, articulate young man.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Very, very impressed with him, the way he handled the interview. Everything he said, I thought was outstanding. Clearly, he's got a very good background. The issue he's got is, is when you look at Bellingham and Rogers and Palmer, I mean Palmer, I don't know what will happen with him under Thomas Tuchel with England. These chances might be gone by the sounds of it. But when you mention the other two, then those are brilliant players that he somehow has to get in front of. But yeah, he's, he's clearly got a massive talent and a straight head, which I think is very important. And he's playing on a regular basis now. He's started every game, hasn't he, this season?

• 27:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Can I just ask you guys, you know, when you, you watched him up close and personal, what did you like the most about his, about his game?

• 27:29Speaker 00

  I think he's got an awareness of everything around him. You know what it's like. It sounds obvious, but you, you know, he's scanning, he's looking and, and his decision making was really good. I thought he could find space in different parts. I like the way he linked up play and I think he's a threat around the box as well. Obviously, he's still very young. He talked about himself, he's not, he's not a huge lad like, like Jude Bellingham or Morgan Rogers. He's very different kind of frame to them, but he's got a really nice feel of the football and a lovely weight of pass as well. And he, and he can score a goal. I mean, he's still very young, but he is a, he is a talent and it would be really interesting to see how he progresses because.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  I often think when players are that intelligent off the pitch, then it often shows on the pitch. And I've definitely seen that in his game. He's impressed me every time I've watched him.

• 28:23Speaker 04

  We're talking about 21s and you want to see a pathway, but how does he, how does he get there? You mentioned the players he mentioned, Palmer, Rogers, Bellingham.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  Eze.

• 28:34Speaker 04

  Eze, Foden, even Morgan Gibbs-White. And he mentioned, he talked about the pre-World Cup camp, didn't he?

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  In Palm Beach and he said he played out of position. Do you, do you think he could adapt to playing a different position? Or do you think he's just a number? Because every time I've seen him, he's got that flair, like you said. He's got that awareness, he's got that drive, he's quick enough and he's brave also. But then how do you force your way into this squad when you've got so many good number 10s?

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Sometimes that works against you, doesn't it? When you can play another position.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Correct, correct, correct. I would say if I was to advise him, I would just say, just concentrate on your game. Keep doing the right things. If it happens, it happens, you know? And, and football shifts and changes and people lose form and other players come in and other styles of play become more attractive. Just keep doing the right thing. And it depends, ultimately, it will depend on how good he is and what he does, whether he gets, with all due respect to Fulham, whether he gets a move to one of the giants. And then if he can suddenly become that good in that position. So he's, at the moment, he's in the early stages of a career.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  You can't, I think it's a little bit pointless talking, how does he force himself into the team at the moment? If I were him, my ambition would be to try and get myself in the squad, possibly in the next year or two. Um, and, and go from there. But he is up against tough opposition in that sense. But things change very quickly in football, you know, we know that so well. Injuries happen, opportunities come, and when you get your opportunity, that is the key, isn't it Al? You've got to take it. I mean, you know, centre forwards in our, in our time, so many other good players around. When you get your chance, somehow you've got to grasp it, you've got to make it happen.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Um, and, you know, for strikers, it's easy. You've just got to score. You've got, although it's not that easy, but you, you've got, with creative players, I think it's probably slightly different. But what I would say is, England are producing really, really talented, technical, creative footballers at present. And, and it's, it's lovely to see and the depth is really, really deep. And I think that's really promising going ahead.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  He didn't say it, but when, when Rob asked him, was there a tinge of disappointment? Because he's had the taste of, um, pre-World Cup with, with England and Thomas Tuchel bringing him and three other younger players in. That was there a tinge of disappointment that he actually wasn't named in this squad? And he, I, I sort of, I listened to his answer and I thought, oh yeah, that was maybe the correct one. And I think I would have probably said that at his age as well. But there was definitely a tinge of disappointment in his, in his body language that I could see saying, yeah. But I think that's totally acceptable because you've had a, you've had a little taste of it and you, and you, all of a sudden you want more and more and more. And I think that's a good thing.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, that's a good sign. I think that's a good sign of you.

• 31:46Speaker 04

  Good sign, yeah.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  Because self-belief is so important.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  And drive's so important. So if you're not disappointed, even though I don't think realistically he's there yet. Um, what have you made of him so far, Micah? Is he in your fantasy team?

• 32:02Speaker 04

  Um, he was last, he was last year, he was last year, but no, not, not this year. But I've looked at him again this, this season. Um, I, I would echo all the things that, that you've said. My, my worry for him internationally, he, he's going to be difficult because of the players ahead of him. And he sort of mentioned in an interview about playing in, you know, trained in a different position. And he almost was hinting at the fact that he, he wants to be more, more centrally, but he was happy to adapt and do what's right for the team. He's al, he's also very media savvy as well because one of Rob's questions, he asked about something to elite club. And he said Fulham is an elite team, you know?

• 32:45Speaker 04

  So, so he knows exactly what he's doing. He's, he's very smart. Um, but I think one of the things I took from the interview, he said Marco Silva gave him the opportunity. But now Arbeloa's giving him the responsibility. So now he's becoming the, the star of the team and he, and he knows that. So if he can mix his ability with that confidence, then we've got a real player on our hands. And then of course, the young players, then it comes about consistency, isn't it? And I think he will be consistent because the way that Arbeloa wants to play, it suits the way he, he plays too.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  Yep, two goals already this season, um, in, in the Premier League. I would say ultimately you can only be as good as you're going to be. As long as you give yourself every chance to succeed and he's clearly a very smart, very bright lad and he's doing that. You can't control other players. You can't control people that are in your position that play. All you can do is force the coaches at whatever level to think about you and consider you, surely.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he's, he's doing that. And I guess he's already had the nod from the England manager because he wouldn't have brought him into the squad if he didn't have, um, the potential. Um, so he's catching the eye, he's just got to keep on going and keep on believing in himself, keep his head down, work hard. Have a little bit of luck now and again. And, um, I think there's a real talent there without a doubt.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  If not, he's got three A levels to fall back on, hasn't he?

• 34:09Speaker 00

  He's a very, very bright boy.

• 34:11Speaker 04

  Imagine being that bright though. That good at football and that bright. It's not fair that.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  Hey, well, you were the best in the world. You couldn't have ever.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Well, when I say best in the world, I meant best in the world.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  You've got it, you've said it.

• 34:24Speaker 04

  H, can you add this in? Best in the world at my age group. I didn't mean best in the world out of anybody.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  I, I think we realise that. Um, okay. Well, we wish Josh all the very best with, with his career and continued success at Fulham. Um, that's it for this episode. The rest is football. Goodbye from me.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  Goodbye from me.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Goodbye from me. Have a great weekend, everyone.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Go long! No, I'm not throwing a football with my favorite son, Charles. I'm talking to my new Duke Cannon Puck of Soap. It's triple mill to last longer and retain its shape down to the last nub. In fantasy football terms, you could say this long-lasting soap takes no bye weeks, or that it's bench-proof, or even that it's a sure-fire league championship winner. Duke Cannon Pucks of Soap are built for guys who want a hard-working, long-lasting soap. Catch one yourself at dukecannon.com or a Target store near you. Duke Cannon Pucks of Soap, triple mill to last longer.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Share comfort and joy this holiday season at Tacovus. Our boots are handcrafted in over 200 meticulous steps and have a broken-in feel right out of the box with styles for everyone in the family. Our expert staff can help you pick the perfect gifts, and we have free in-store gift wrapping to help make the holiday season truly special. See you soon at your local Tacovus store, or shop with us anytime at tacovus.com.