Exquisite England Hammer Calamitous Croatia

Will Alex Scott’s impressive first start give Tuchel some selection dilemmas? Is Jude Bellingham England’s best midfielder of this century? How has Anthony Gordon established himself as one of the Three Lions key players? Gary, Alan and Micah discuss the biggest highlights of England’s emphatic win in Croatia and why it’s so important for them to qualify for the Nations League quarter-finals to keep testing themselves against the best. 10 for £100. Stay 10 nights, get £100 back in Hotels.com Cash. UK Customers Only Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, this is Gary Lineker from Goalhangers, the rest is football. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate and easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies. Most transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid-market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  So when money needs to move, you can see the rate, know the fee and get on with it. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees by downloading the Wise app today. Be smart, get wise, Ts and Cs apply.

• 1:09Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to The Rest Is Football with Alan Shearer, Micah Richards and me, Gary Lineker. England have won by seven goals to nil away from home from a top 15 team in the world. What a wonderful place it is. We'll discuss the football at the moment, but Alan, where are you?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm still in Portugal, guys. I'm still playing terrible golf. Do you know what? I was on the range the other day, right? And I was hitting it so well, I think, yeah, I've got it, I've nailed it. And I walked to the first tee box all cocky, thinking, yeah, I've got this. I pushed my ball that far, I lose my fucking ball on the first tee. I was like, I hate this game.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  Did you know in America they have like, well, I think they call it a breakfast ball? You get another go on the first, if it's the first tee. I think that's what they call it, breakfast ball. I mean, that epitomised my whole golfing career and one of the reasons why I had to, I, my mental health wasn't good, so I had to give up. Because I would absolutely stripe it, and I know this is The Rest Is Football, not The Rest Is Golf, but I would absolutely stripe it down the middle on the range, 15, 20 drives, that first tee, I'd either block it completely right or duck it most times.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Oh no, I never pushed one on the range, never pushed one right on the range.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  No, no. Micah, let me give you one piece of advice in life.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  Whatever people say, don't start playing golf.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I won't, I've not got the time, I've not got the patience, I've got better things to do in my life.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  There are good things about it. It's a lovely walk, but I think it's a lovely walk, looking for your ball in the rough all the time. What have you been up to, big meeks?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  I actually was doing some up with Kevin Sinfield, you know, running seven ultra miles in seven days for MND.

• 3:00Speaker 00

  How much every day?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  I think he did seven ultra marathons, seven, seven ultra marathons in seven days.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  You have?

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Not me, not me, Kevin Sinfield, not me.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  I was going to say, how did you miss that?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  I saw you cycle, did you cycle a mile then, Micah, did you?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Honestly, it was, I felt so embarrassed, lads. So they get the email, don't they, and he said, oh, would you come and support Kevin? Great course, Rob Burrows.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is a good course.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  So I go down and we start, call them Leeds, lad, started at Headingly. They spoke to my manager and said, oh, is he going to run it? Is he going to cycle it? So I said, my knee's bad, I've obviously got to cycle. So then I get in the dressing room and I see all these inspirational humans about to take on some unbelievable task and I'm on an electric bike.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  No way, on a fucking Lime bike?

• 4:06Speaker 02

  It was so embarrassing. And they're dripping and sweating and doing it all for the cause and I'm just there smiling. And to make it even worse, so I'm not, when I ride a bike, I don't wear a normal helmet. So back in the day, you know, like mopeds, so for whatever reason, I used to have a quad years and years ago, but I've got a quad helmet.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  So I've gone there, I've gone with my Harley Davidson gloves, I've got my motorbike helmet, I just looked a shambles to ride on an electric bike. I just, honestly, I just, I had to question myself, all these men doing inspirational stuff.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Hang on, can I ask you a question? Obviously, when they asked you to do it, they must have said, we'd like you to, you know, if you could join in for a little, did you get all precious to say, Alan, I'm only doing it if I get an electric bike?

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Is that, is that, is that what you said?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  I can't believe you've got there and they've given you, you should have just said, no, it doesn't, it doesn't matter about my knees, I'll just have to run it. There's no way I'm getting on an electric bike when you guys are running.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  But the thing is, so they start at different places, so they do 7K in one part of Leeds and then they ended up in Bradford. And I seen the time that they was doing the 7K, so I thought, if they're just plodding, maybe I could just plod along with them. But when I saw the time that was doing it, I was like, there's no chance. Honestly, I've never been so embarrassed in all my life.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Alan, why are you in a sauna?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Sorry about that, yeah. Not that hot in here, it's fine.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  What did you do, Gas? Come on, what have you been doing?

• 5:46Speaker 00

  New kitchen's up and running, so I've been cooking a bit and look, I don't know if you can see it, but I managed to burn myself quite badly. I had an argument with a deep fat fryer and I dropped the chips in and they bounced up and as I went to protect my face, it went all over my hand, which is probably preferable, but it was, it was quite a bad one.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Ouch.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  And watching, you know, watching England, England, I mean, absolutely battered them really. I mean, obviously Croatia were really poor on the night, particularly defensively from any cross that came in, they didn't seem to have anyone anywhere near the middle of the goal, which was quite baffling. Having said all that, it was an experienced Croatian team and it's, I think it's pushing their experience a little bit now.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  But England were really good, their energy was high, they pressed and pressed the whole game, they won it back very quickly each time. So yeah, much to enjoy, I thought.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I agree, I thought they were outstanding from start to finish. I thought their energy, everything about their game, I thought was brilliant. We said it the other day, you know, when you're going into tough places that it's not always easy to get a result, but they, they made it look very, very easy last night. They were comfortable in everything they were doing, scored some great goals, scored seven, could have been 10, 11, 12, couldn't it? They missed some chances as well, but I thought it was impressive from everyone.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  This is a performance where, yes, it was against Croatia, some of their players are coming to, to the end, especially Modric, at times he looked a little bit old, but he's still a top quality player. And they've got some, got really good players, Croatia, Batarina, I really like him, who's at Como, but he couldn't really get into the game. But you know, when we talk about England being on the front foot, Al, this is exactly what we're talking about. And I'm not just talking about midfield and forward, I'm talking about the defence as well. The first goal, you see where Gaye is, that is being brave. It allows a team to go up the pitch and then they go and score the goal. I just thought every player was outstanding. How many times have you said that about England? Every single player on the pitch was amazing, even, even Pickford, there was one time when

• 7:54Speaker 02

  it went through, like his timing to come out and the positioning that he showed, it filled me with confidence and I'm not going to say, oh, we're going to go win the Euros. But if they play like that in the Euros, they will cause teams problems.

• 8:07Speaker 00

  I can't remember the last time we played as well as that over a sustained period of a match.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  It's very rare, in fact, where you can say it was almost the perfect performance. I thought every player more than played their part, did their job, every player was an eight or nine out of 10.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Seven nil away from home, it's quite a staggering result. We did a bit of research, England's biggest wins under, when we've actually played. What was yours, Al? Do you know it?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Was there a seven as well? I mean, I'm assuming you're not making it away from home, home or away, I think.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  No, it's a home or away.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Did we, I think we scored seven once, did we? England at Wembley?

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Six against Luxembourg and someone, how many did you get, Al?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Hat trick.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  Was that you on an only England hat trick, wasn't it? Against the mighty Luxembourg.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  You know what's coming next.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. Micah, your biggest win?

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Four nil probably.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  You had a five nil against Norway for the under 21s and I mentioned that because you pulled out of the squad with injury just before the game.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  But on a plus note, you were in a side that won 3-0 against Israel and?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Of course, I scored in that game.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Of course you scored. That's right. Mine was eight nil actually for England against Turkey. And it says here on the notice that I scored four, I didn't, I scored three. That was in 1987, way back when, way back when. So this was a really impressive performance. I think possibly that we should maybe start with one of the newcomers making his first start for England, Alex Scott, who I thought that was as an impressive debut as you could possibly, always, Mike, it's, go on, go on, we'll give you your flowers, Micah.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  I want, no, I want my flowers.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't know how you spotted that Alex Scott's a good player.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Right. Whenever I was talking about the England squad, everyone was talking, this player, that player, go back, get the receipts, do your research as the famous Tiago Rez, do your research. I said Alex Scott would be my wild card. I said that six months ago, I said that, H, John, I mean, who's on here, Max? Who else is on this? I need the evidence because I feel like, I feel like a broken record. I keep delivering, but the evidence is not there to back me up.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Well, I'll tell you what is there to back you up, the fact that you are a broken record, because you seem to say this about an awful lot of players.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  I'm going to tell you as he said it, Gas, I told you about it.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  I mean honestly.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  People become deluded now. I need the evidence, boys. I need the evidence.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Mike, they don't think you're deluded. They think you are the oracle of football. And we know that. But what an assured performance. I watched him quite closely because, you know, we can argue. It's one game. It's against a team that didn't play very well on the night and England were really good. But he was very much part of that game. And the one thing I think we've, you can look at perhaps the great teams that win competitions. They have control in a game. And I think that is a player that I don't think we've necessarily seen within that England midfield. Now, Rice has his strengths and he's brilliant and he's, you know, his delivery and he's bombs up and down.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  He's a box to box player. Jude's Jude's everything. Then you've got Elliot Anderson, who is really energetic. Plays all over the pitch. He, you know, he win tackles, he wins the ball back. And I thought he was excellent once again. He's very, very consistent, but the kind of player that can, there's a calmness and a little bit of control. Never gives the ball away. Always, he's always scanning. I noticed a lot of that and, and in the right way. So I was, I was really impressed. And I mean, what a very, very confident start.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  You know what I would just say before you go out? I think Alex Scott, what's, what's worked for him or is working for him? He's 23. So normally when you get these players who make the debut, they might be too young. And the expectation level is too much, too, too much too soon. But because he's 23, I remember him when he was at Bristol City. I think, I think it was 2002, 2003 season, he got young player of the year and he got Bristol City. It got a team of the year. I think it was EFL team of the year, 2020. Because everyone was raving about him. I remember when I was back on Twitter.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  I thought it was just you that was raving about him.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  No, no, no, back then, that back then, back then it was Twitter. Back then it was Twitter. And Alex Scott was always trending, trending for years and years. I'm thinking, what, what was this Alex Scott everyone keeps talking about?

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Presents Football Focus. That's what they thought.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  I don't know. Oh, I've seen him and the way he moved, his control, exactly what you said there, guys. I was like, he's going to be a top player. Then it goes to, to Bournemouth. You're thinking, can he do it at this level? And it's the little things, exactly like you said, guys. I don't think he played to the best of his ability. I think he's got way more. But what he did need to do and keep the ball, keep it moving, dropping his shoulders, awareness of what round him. He's just magnificent. Why? He is, is going to be, is going to be England's future for sure. I, I think he's that good.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  The first goal epitomised it really, I thought. He, he had one little look. He knew exactly where everyone was. Had another look and then got the ball on the half turn in a fairly crowded area and just, just put the ball into Jude's path. Who then obviously laid it on for Harry Kane.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  But he knew what he wanted to do with it. It's all well, get it into that position. So you know what? When midfielders receive the ball, some receive the ball, they might play it back to the defender. Then to get it back again and then pass the ball. The interesting thing is he knew exactly what he was going to do when the ball was coming. Before the ball was coming to him, he'd already scanned where he wanted the pass to go. And that is the subtle difference where if you're watching it, oh, you might think he's, but they're the differences. And that's what the great Spain teams do. So I just think he's, I think he's marvellous. I do.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  What does Tuchel do though? If you've got a player that has that sort of control on a game. Now, Declan's a totally different player. Does it give him a different option? Does it mean now that, that perhaps, you know, Declan's place is not always assured? Maybe he wants to play slightly different way with someone like Alex Scott. A bit early, I know, but it's a conversation to be had.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's what, that's what I was going to say. I think it's very early. He was brilliant, albeit against an Asian Croatian side. But when you take all that into account, he was superb. And it gives the manager another option. I think that's a good thing. And I don't think he's had too many in, in, in those positions. It was always going to be Anderson and, and Rice. But now he's got options, hasn't he?

• 15:16Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, there's a lot of options as well. Don't forget that, you know, Miles Lewis-Skelly played during really well. You got Nico O'Reilly that could play in midfield or at left back. Um, which is, so there are options. You could, obviously you could play Alex Scott with Declan Rice and rather than Elliot Anderson. And obviously players get injured and lose form. And I think it's quite encouraging. I think he needs to probably, and I think one of the things you would have learnt from the World Cup is that you can't just depend on 14, 15 players in a squad. And I think, I don't think for one moment that it'll, it'll bring in one or two of the players with all due respect

• 16:00Speaker 00

  that he thought would just be happy to be in the squad and not perform. I think that probably will, will change. And also I think competition for places is really important.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Always has been in any, any team. It, it, you know, the best players will be driven on. And talking of best players, Jude Bellingham, man. I mean.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Tasty, wasn't he?

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Every single game that he's playing now, obviously had a little dip a year or so ago. But he had his shoulder problems and he had operations and event. And now, I mean, from, from, towards the end of last season onwards, he's been absolutely breathtaking. So good.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  He's actually gone to another level. You just see the, the belief and everything in him. He's, he has, he has taken his performances for, since, I don't know, June, I guess. He's just gone to another level, hasn't he?

• 16:56Speaker 02

  He's just, he's superb. You watch him for Real Madrid and how you do Champions League as well. And he's, he's, he's something that I've not really seen with a player. And it's more so because of his, his confidence. I don't think he maybe has the flair of a Cole Palmer. I don't think maybe he has a touch of a Phil Foden personally, but I think he's a nine out of 10 at everything else. He, he just, everything, nine out of 10. But then his confidence is 10 out of 10. So whatever he does, he just believes in. And I probably agree with you. I think, I think it's the best I've seen him play.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  He's sort of taking the game, each game we watch by the scruff of the neck and saying, I am the main man. Obviously at the World Cup, enhance that. He had a really good World Cup. But now it's just, it looks like he's from a different planet. If he carries on like this, you go down with one of the best English players ever.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  I said on the, um, the exclusive Netflix little show that we do on Sunday evenings. I said to, to Haz that I think if he avoids serious injury or something crazy, that he could end up being England's greatest ever footballer. Because he's, he's all right. I mean, I, I actually disagree with you slightly, Mike. I think he has got the touch in the, of almost of Cole Palmer. I think he's definitely got the, you know, he might not, I think he's got the, certainly with Phil Foden.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  No, it was, it was flair, it was flair of Palmer in terms of the way, and then the touch of, Phil Foden's touch is like.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  I don't know, but Jude's touch is unbelievable.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  It's soft.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Jude's touch is unbelievably good as well. I mean, the way he beats people, the way he turns and all that. And he turns on the ball. He's, um, yeah. I mean, there's not a lot in it in those areas, but he's all, he's all round package. I mean, even in the last 10 minutes, he dropped back and he hit a, a ball for Morgan Rogers' goal. I mean, unbelievable pass with one foot. And then he hit another ball through after, where I think someone was offside with his left foot. When he dropped deeper because he'd made changes. And he could, I mean, he could play, he could play absolutely anywhere on the pitch. And he's driven, he's a winner. Um, and I absolutely, I love watching him play. He's got, it's just, he's just, he's got the wow factor.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  When you come to think, when Tuchel came in and he, he left him out, didn't he? He left him out and there was a big discussion. And how he managed him and handled him and what have you. When you look at him now, incredible. Yeah. He's a superstar without a doubt. We all know that.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  I think Thomas has got away with it a little bit in terms of the way he's treated Jude. I think it's a bit offish. Or maybe he'll claim that that's helped him as a motive. I don't think he needs any motivation though. He's, he's just, you can tell he's just, he's just driven that way anyway. You know, even that little kind of spat they had in the post-match interview is a bit of misunderstanding. But nevertheless, you can, I mean, Jude's, Jude's a strong personality and he's got to deal with him. And, and now he's now, Thomas Tuchel's completely turned and did, did huge praise for him after every game. And, and that sort of thing. He also had huge praise, it's worth saying, for, for Alex Scott after the game as well.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  So, which I, I thought was interesting. What is, he's still very young. He's just coming absolutely into his prime now, Jude. And it's probably a little bit too early, but I said we'd do it anyway. But where does he stand in all time midfielders for England?

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Because I said, I said, I said to Haz, I said, I thought he's got, and I put him top, right. And we were only talking about perhaps this century. So I think he's got the power and the pace and the, and the ability of Gerrard. I think he's not, almost got the passing ability of Scholes, but not quite. And he's definitely got the finishing and the arrival in the box of Frank Lampard. So he's close on all those three of the primary strengths of all three players. He might, you know, he might be slightly behind on each one, but overall as a package, he's got all three.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Oh, Gerrard, oh, young Steven Gerrard. I'd not seen anything like-

• 21:20Speaker 00

  You've got to also take into account achievement, you know, with England. We were talking about with England specifically last night and obviously none of those three-

• 21:29Speaker 02

  With England, he's, he's done better than all of them. All three of them. But if you're talking about what they did domestically, it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough debate-

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Well, it's early, it's early.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  It's early, yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 00

  But we like tough debates.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Ask us again in three years.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  I'll ask you every season.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  You have to say for England, Jude, Jude Bellingham's done more than them all. We, we have to say that. That's, it's not controversial to say, saying that consistently, he has.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  But if you take it to domestic, which we're not talking about right now, Gerrard, I, I've not seen a player from England in my era, I'm not talking about you guys' era, that could do anything like Steven Gerrard. I, I, when I was, when I was in training, I was in awe, I was, the thing is passing-

• 22:17Speaker 00

  So you don't think Jude Bellingham could do everything that Steven Gerrard does?

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Steve, Steven Gerrard had more than just the, the technical aspects of the game.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Oh, I know. I love Steven Gerrard. I think he's a wonderful player, but I, if we're talking about the two of them.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  I would agree with that.

• 22:32Speaker 00

  There's, there's similarities, I think, between the two.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  But Gerrard could turn a game on its head by just a tackle. I'm not talking, I'm not talking about-

• 22:41Speaker 00

  So can Jude.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he ju, he just had some aura and a presence.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  So has Jude.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'm talking about my era. It's difficult because I've not played with Jude. But internationally, yes, I would say Jude. And he's at Real Madrid, going to Real Madrid, so young, winning the Champions League, so young, all those, those things, for sure. I, it, it, there will be a debate to have, but I just remember Stevie Gerrard as a young player and I've not seen anything like that. But then Jude, don't forget, it's different times as well, Gaz. It's so, it's so, it's so hard, isn't it?

• 23:19Speaker 00

  No, you can, you can, but it's just a fun thing to debate, I think. It's not, because you can never, because obviously you're never playing this, they're not playing in the same era and football changes, rules change, all sorts of different things. So understandably, but I just think it's, I think it's quite, it's quite an interesting one. I think there are similarities between the two players. Um, what, where do you stand, Al?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  At the minute, I would probably with Gerrard. I think my answer in two or three years, or even 12 months, it would probably change because, yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a superstar, he's an unbelievable talent. But at the minute, I'd probably just side with Gerrard.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the only thing is, and this is, this is part of the debate. So it's hard because Stevie stayed at Liverpool at times where they wasn't winning much. Yes, they won the Champions League, got the Champions League final, but in terms of the league, he could have went to Real Madrid and played in one of the best Real Madrid teams in, in my, in my history with Ronaldo and all them boys, our nine we're talking about, Raul and, and Roberto Carlos, right, the list goes on. But he, he stayed at Liverpool and that made it harder for him. So when people are having their judgments, it's very difficult to judge Steven Gerrard because he was loyal to Liverpool at the time, which obviously

• 24:40Speaker 02

  hindered what he could have wanted to, you know?

• 24:43Speaker 00

  Yep. And, and I guess that's something you have to take into account. Um, let's, let's, let's take a break there and discuss one or two of the other England players when we come back. This episode is brought to you by hotels.com. You know what's better than getting a good win? Getting another one straight after it. With the all new 10 for 100 pounds benefit from hotels.com, members that stay 10 eligible nights can get 100 pounds back in hotels.com cash to use on a future booking. Work trips, weekends away or longer holidays, all those stays can quickly add up to 10. But the wins don't stop there. Hotels.com members can

• 25:24Speaker 00

  also save up to 20% instantly on select hotels just by being a member. So you get value from your booking now while your stays count towards a future reward. Book once, win twice. Book today at hotels.com. Available to UK customers only. Members 18 plus. See hotels.com site for details.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  There we are getting a statement from number 10 on that flight with 350 passengers on board.

• 25:58Speaker 04

  The great game, strategic struggle between Britain and Russia.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  We assess, uh, Prime Minister, with high confidence, it was Russian.

• 26:11Speaker 06

  Holding the Russians accountable is World War III.

• 26:13Speaker 07

  They took down a British passenger jet containing 350 people.

• 26:16Speaker 04

  Man in the Kremlin is playing, Alex. Got to ask yourself, do you want to play or not? You're the Prime Minister. You've done nothing.

• 26:30Speaker 06

  We would need to understand the policy context.

• 26:32Speaker 04

  All relevant context will be structured as a framework today and disseminated into an operation order or frago. A frago that says to kill the President of Russia. Yes.

• 26:47Speaker 06

  New from Goalhanger. Who is going to be able to pull this off? You're my soldier, are you? Sergeant Tom McDuff, Duffy.

• 26:56Speaker 07

  An audio drama journey like no other. Men like Duffy, they are our most valuable weapons.

• 27:02Speaker 06

  Divized as a technically rigorous geopolitical action thriller. We have two times friendly key. Where Britain plays its strongest arm. He's the best. Against its strongest foe. Don't do it, Duffy. Bear Hunt. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  Welcome back to the Rest is Football with Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and me, Carol Lineker. Talking about debates, what about O'Reilly and Lewis Hall? Lewis Hall's come in, had two really good games.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Come on, Micah, I'll leave this one to you.

• 27:42Speaker 00

  You had a little, you know, little discussion in the previous episode.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Well, if you actually listen to the episode, I said play him half each, but I would, I would have gone with O'Reilly. However, however.

• 27:56Speaker 00

  However, however. There we go.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  O'Reilly started against Spain, not, so come on. It, it, we're comparing apples and oranges here. It's, it's completely different.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  He was up against Lamine Yamal. And I do recall a certain game at, was it St James's Park where Lewis Hall hardly gave Lamine Yamal a kick.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  Hold on, I've had Ronaldo in my pocket. Does that mean I was better than Ronaldo?

• 28:24Speaker 00

  It doesn't mean you were better than Ronaldo. It might have meant you were better than another fullback that was playing at that particular time.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But do you know what I mean? In the derbies, in the Manchester derbies, when I used to, I wouldn't want to say pocket Ronaldo, I don't want Ronaldo fans on me, but when he didn't score or do anything against me in those games, I wasn't saying I was the best fullback in the world at that time, was I?

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Oh, you probably were.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  I think what, what stands out more than anything, there's no doubt, I, I like O'Reilly and you can't not like him because he's a winner.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're both cracking.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  But the big, the big thing for me is, is how Gordon and Hall sort of understand each other and know each other's game. And, and if you remember during the World Cup, um, when it, there were, there was change in fullbacks so many times, uh, that, that, that understanding was never there. Whoever played in that left back position, the understanding really wasn't there with, with Gordon, when to go, when to pass, when to move. But I think the link up, I think of the last two games, the link up with those two has been outstanding, Hall and Gordon.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  I think Lewis Hall is exceptional. I really do. I think O'Reilly's probably better with the ball at his feet to a degree. I think he's got, it's a real ability. And he's young, he's very young still, O'Reilly. And I think he's going to get, I think he's a really talented individual. Um, I think Hall's probably better defensively, one against one, you know, I think he'd edge it there. O'Reilly's more likely to get you a goal from set pieces, stuff like that. So they've both got the, and again, I say it's, it's, it's really encouraging that you've got two players.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  In the same position. And you talked about that relationship he has with, with Anthony Gordon. And I thought, Gordon again.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Brilliant.

• 30:08Speaker 00

  Really good, great pressing, takes people on. That's what I like about him. When he gets it, he doesn't like da, da, da, da, da, regurgitate the ball out sideways. He's got that, he knows he's got the fullback and he absolutely takes him on. He gets the ball in the box. Um, he's, do you think he's cemented that place pretty much now?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that goal, like he scored against Argentina in the summer and he's moved to Barcelona, he's gone up another level again. And you're seeing the best of, of Gordon now. Um, there's no doubt he's a, he's a threat. He's got, his pace is a nightmare for, for defenders and he can go both ways. And he's, he has gone to another level since he's, since he's gone to Barcelona, I think.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've got some of the stats in, Micah, before you go on, just quite interesting. England's, England's front four, um, since World Cup knockouts began. This is the amount of time it's taken on average with goals and assists. So Jude Bellingham's got 10 goals and assists since the knockout World Cup began. Every 59 minutes, either a goal or an assist. Anthony Gordon, every 60 minutes, he's got eight goals or assists. Harry Kane's nine goals and assists in 68 minutes. And Bukayo Saka, six goals or an assist in every 83 minutes. That's, they're pretty impressive numbers.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Their numbers are great, Gaz, but ultimately in, in the World Cup.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  If they would have took this form that they're producing now into the World Cup, I'd have been absolutely buzzing. And we've talked about Nations League before and friendlies and all that sort of stuff. If these guys can keep what they have now, honestly, they can challenge for the Euros and be-

• 31:55Speaker 00

  I think what they've got to do to convince us and convince themselves probably, which is really important, is do it against the big teams.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  We don't beat the big teams. And the good thing is now, that's why I think it's also really important that England qualify to get to the quarterfinals. So they will continue to play because they're not over the period. We've gone into tournaments without hardly ever playing the big nations.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 32:18Speaker 00

  And we've not beaten them. We've not beaten, you know, Spain's and Argentina, countries like that. When it went France, when it really matters, not done it. Even in the final against Italy, who have struggled a little bit, but they are a kind of big footballing nation. That is England's next step.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  I think they need not only to do that to make the fans and us believe, but to make themselves believe. Because once you get that winning experience, then confidence is-

• 32:49Speaker 02

  They can do it then. They can do it. They've got the players to do it. They've got the mentality to do it. Because all the players are playing at top clubs who are week in, week out, challenging. They've just got to believe. They've just got to believe. And I know it's easy saying that. And the reason why we talked about the World Cup, and I was like, well, maybe players, depends on form or whatnot. Take this form, two years, they can do it. Because France are going to have an off day, Spain are going to have an off day. And sometimes when England have an off day, it seems to be going out of the competition, you know? But they can. They can compete now. If you look at the front three, yes, France, Elise looks good, Mbappe looks good, they're better. They were all shaky, they'll always

• 33:34Speaker 02

  have. But if you look at the overall team, especially with the likes of Brantford coming through, in two years, I expect him to be there. Gaye will still be there. Konzer will have more experience. So maybe he'll have a few more league titles. Lewis Hall, who's come from Chelsea now, like Newcastle, and he's playing week in, week out, with more experience. I just feel like in the Euros, it'll be the time, it'll be the time to be really competitive. Because although we was going into the World Cup, it was more hope than belief. We all said it's probably going to be Spain or France. But actually, in the Euros, if they continue to keep improving and believing, then they can do it.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  I think overall, the three games that we've seen, even though Spain did us, there was still plenty positives, wasn't there?

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. Played really well, I thought most of them.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  The last two they've played, Czech Republic and Croatia, I think there's, yeah, even the three games, there's been plenty to be really, really positive about. Defensively, I know against Spain, the errors that we saw, and they were punished for that. But I think even that game, there was lots to take out. So up to now, I know they play again Tuesday, it's been a really good international break for England.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, Thomas Tuchel would have learnt a lot from that World Cup as well.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  You know, the way, you know, I just wonder if that game against, obviously, Argentina, that last half an hour, if they get in a similar position again, I think they'd probably approach it very differently. So you learn from your mistakes or-

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Just guys, actually there on then, you've watched all the games. What's impressed you the most about England?

• 35:19Speaker 00

  The press, the high press.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  The only thing I would say about that is that, can you do that in a summer tournament, game in, game out? I think with a little bit of possible rotation, if you've got the strength in depth, I think it's doable. I think Spain showed to a degree, but Spain's different because when they get the ball, they don't give it, they keep it. But I see in this team, England can, they're not that far off in that sense. They can do that. I've enjoyed some of the football that they've played. It's been forward thinking, but, you know, really good passing in midfield, keeping the ball. I still think there's a vulnerability, but there always will be with every team that plays high at the back. But I think overall,

• 36:05Speaker 00

  I've been really encouraged. But what I do love is the high press energy. And I think that's the way, we've got to find a way to play that more consistently. And particularly in tournaments, because we're not very good at sitting back and counter attacking. We're not. We don't, we don't do it very well.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Totally agree. I think you've absolutely nailed it. And that's why I asked you, because every time you've said you've been excited by the press, and it's not just the press, it's everyone backing up as well.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  And then getting the ball at one stage in the first half, and Croatia's 85% possession.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  They hardly had a kick.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  They just couldn't get a kick.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  It was like watching prime pet Manchester City.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Yes. That's exactly what it was like.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  That first half, I thought it was incredible. They could not get out. They couldn't keep the ball at all. They just kept winning it straight back, which, very encouraging. I just want to finish on a slightly more disconcerting note, because I saw some Jürgen Klopp quotes after the Germany games. And he was asked to respond to the debate as to whether the national team were not Germany enough or not white enough. I raise it because obviously we've had, we've had the thing with one of the reforms, Suella Braverman, saying same sort of stuff, that if you've got a different skin colour, you're not, you're not English.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  And it's, and I just wanted to read Klopp's words out, really. He said, "There is absolutely no reason to pay attention to these people. You won't get my thoughts on this. I have little time in everyday life for idiocy, and even less on social media. The great crux of our lives is that everyone is allowed to express their opinion. It's insane when something like that exists. The world would learn a thing or two from a sports changing room. There, everyone is respected based on the facts and not discredited based on false opinions." And I would also say by skin colour. I mean, it's, I mean, it's scary time. I mean, I don't really want to move into politics, because I'm always a bit nervous

• 38:15Speaker 00

  about talking about politics. But when it kind of shows itself in football like that, that, you know, because football for me is great about human beings, that we can, we all get on together. In the dressing room, no one's thinking about what the colour of someone's skin is. They're just thinking about whether you can get a cross in or a through ball.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  They're great words about the fact.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  Because it's absolutely true. I think, you know, sometimes, you know, we focus sometimes on a racist chant or something at a football game, or the occasional problems we have. But, but in the actual dressing rooms themselves, the harmony, whether, you know, you can be a, you can be a Christian, a Catholic, a Muslim, any kind of ethnicity, you can be, you can be black, you can be brown, you can be white. But it's just, it all comes together and it's so harmonious. And, and yet, you know, politicians and people speaking out in that way, it just depresses me a little bit. I saw someone put a graphic up of all

• 39:14Speaker 00

  the, of all the players of various colours that have played and represented England over the years. I mean, come on. I know, I know it's done to divide and rule. That's the whole plan. But it's worth calling out occasionally. I really do think that. But anyway, so let's end the episode there. That's it from us. Goodbye from me.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Goodbye from me.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Goodbye from me. Have a great week.