Pod Insights The Rest Is Classified 171. The Murder of Litvinenko: Killed in Plain Sight (Ep 3) About this episode Russian assassins are closing in on Alexander Litvinenko… But who will deal the fatal blow?
Listen as David and Gordon explore the dramatic moments leading up to the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in London.
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0:25 Speaker 00 Russian assassins are closing in on Alexander Litvinenko. But who will deal the fatal blow? Well, welcome to The Rest Is Classified. I'm David McCloskey.
0:34 Speaker 01 And I'm Gordon Corera.
0:35 Speaker 00 And we are in the third episode of this series examining Alexander Litvinenko, former Russian FSB Security Service officer, who is in London and is causing some problems for Putin and the people around him. And we spent a lot of, the last time, talking about Litvinenko's work in due diligence, examining Russian oligarchs, officials for firms in the UK, how that put him in conflict with some Putin allies and sabotaged a business deal that cost Putin allies money. We looked at Litvinenko's work as a consultant slash
1:18 Speaker 00 access agent for MI6. And we're now approaching October 2006 in what will become the last several weeks of Alexander Litvinenko's life.
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4:42 Speaker 01 Last time, we did look at a lot of the reasons why the Russian state had it in for him. But what's interesting is, once you get to this point, the intensity really starts to build of these different strands coming together. He's getting repeated messages and phone calls from Russia, sometimes passed through intermediaries, threatening him, telling him to come back, you know, warning him he's not safe. We talked about how the FSB views him as a traitor, back to that famous press conference he gives. I mean, they even use pictures of Lipinenko for target practice at a special forces training centre. I find that really interesting. It does suggest he was pretty well-known within the Russian security establishment as a hate figure if they're using his picture.
5:26 Speaker 01 So you've got this sense of, you know, animosity. He's becoming more vocal in his attacks on Putin under Beresovsky's patronage. Beresovsky is getting more involved in plotting Putin's overthrow. There's lots of plotting going on around him, of which he's part of. There's also little things which could also act as triggers. We talked a bit about the personal antagonism that Lipinenko has about with Putin, going back to that meeting in the FSB. Then in July 2006, Lipinenko publishes this article on the Chechen press website. In fact, he's right, if that tells you something as well. It's a really strange article. It couldn't have been more inflammatory
6:10 Speaker 01 or designed to antagonize Putin, because it accuses President Putin of being a paedophile. I mean, it uses an incident where Putin kisses the stomach of a small boy publicly, you know, as he's kind of walking around and doing stuff, and claims that, you know, this is a sign that he's a paedophile and this has been covered up. I mean, there is no evidence actually to support this. There is no basis for it. It's a really incendiary claim. To make, I think, it's kind of suggests he's moving in perhaps more, you know, he's always been quite obsessive, but he's becoming even more inflammatory in some ways.
6:46 Speaker 00 Well, Litvinenko is prone to conspiracy theories and conspiracy thinking. I mean, at one point, he had actually tried to blame the 77 bombings in 2005, which occurred at London, on the FSB. It made me wonder if he's, I mean, does it discredit him more broadly, these kind of wild claims?
7:08 Speaker 01 I don't know if it discredits him, but it's.
7:09 Speaker 00 It's nuts, you know, to claim publicly that Putin's a pedophile.
7:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's becoming more obsessive, more antagonistic. I think he's drawn to trying to wake people up to Putin and to the FSB and making pretty more, you know, pretty outrageous claims to try and do that. Then, of course, there's the due diligence work. We talked about the business deal. So there's, you know, and the work he's potentially doing with MI6, trying to tap up Lugavoy, his business partner in due diligence to work for MI6, Lugavoy's told the FSB. And at the same time, it's worth saying Russia is also changing. It's becoming more aggressive. Two big new laws get passed in Russia in 2006 in March and July. Now ostensibly, they're about counterterrorism and extremism. And one particularly follows the killing of five Russian diplomats by a Chechen supporting terrorist group in
7:59 Speaker 01 Iraq. And their laws allow Russia to go after terrorists and extremists anywhere around the world. Now, the issue, of course, is who do you interpret?
8:10 Speaker 00 Who's a terrorist?
8:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
8:12 Speaker 00 You know, I guess seen from Russia, a former FSB officer who's claiming that Putin's a pedophile and who's also working for MI6 and, you know, cratering business deals for your buddies.
8:26 Speaker 01 He's an extremist.
8:27 Speaker 00 He'd fit in that category if you're Putin.
8:30 Speaker 01 Yeah. So in July 2006, after the second law is passed, The Times newspaper in London publishes a letter written by Vladimir Bukovsky, who's a dissident, talked about him earlier, and Oleg Gordievsky, friend of the show, former KGB officer. And it's ahead of a meeting in St Petersburg of the G8, where Putin's going to be there along with Western leaders. And, you know, these two Russian exiles say the stage is set for any critic of Putin's regime here. Especially, meaning London, especially those campaigning against Russian genocide, as they put it in Chechnya, to have an appointment with a poison tipped umbrella. So these are people warning. We know about poison tipped umbrellas, don't we, David? Well, not personally.
9:12 Speaker 00 Not personally. No, personally. Yes, yes. Well, and what year was that?
9:17 Speaker 01 Late seventies, seventy eight. Yeah. But this idea that Russians, you know, are capable of killing people, there's a warning there. And Marina says he, Alexander Litvinenko, viewed these laws as a personal threat. So you can see that Litvinenko is becoming more aggressive, doing more things, and Russia is becoming more aggressive in its response. So now, as we get to October, as the net is closing around him, and we're going to really dive quite deep into those final weeks, the first thing that happens is one of his own friends is killed. Anna Politskova was a crusading Russian journalist on the Novaya Gazeta newspaper, which is an independent newspaper, big critic of Putin. She'd investigated FSB, human rights abuses in Chechnya. She's a friend of Litvinenko,
10:01 Speaker 01 visits him in London. She is shot by gunmen outside her Moscow apartment, seventh of October, two thousand and six. And this really was a, I mean, it was a big deal, I think, for us journalists as well at the time, because she was a kind of prominent campaigner, you know, investigator, and just shot. And, you know, Litvinenko breaks down when he hears the news, and he will believe Putin is responsible.
10:25 Speaker 00 One, October of two thousand and six is also a big month for Litvinenko because he's granted UK citizenship at a ceremony on the thirteenth of October. You know, I think that when he came to London, I mean, he took his son to the tower and basically said, this country took you in and, you know, never forget, never forget, right, that the UK has saved us. He's flying an English flag from his home's balcony during the World Cup that summer.
10:55 Speaker 01 He's got British citizenship. It makes him very happy. Marina says he's very proud to be British, proud for his son to be British, and this was his future. Now, after this citizenship ceremony, I mean, it gives you a sense of the intensity of these days. Gets his citizenship, then he goes to a memorial event in Westminster for Politkovka, the journalist. And he takes his son Anatoly along and he sees these other dissidents there, his old friends, and he says to one, I just received my citizenship. Now they will not be able to touch me. And to Bukowski, he says, it makes me more secure, doesn't it? It protects me. And Bukowski answers, I had to smile and say, well, not much, not really. I mean, the tragedy is he's own, you know, he's just got his citizenship, but he actually only has weeks left to live.
11:39 Speaker 00 And just three days later, just three days after that, his assassins will arrive on the first of what will become several trips. So I guess worth at this point going back to Kovtun and Lugavoy, who arrive in London on the sixteenth of October. So just, just a few days after Lipinenko has been made a, a UK citizen.
12:03 Speaker 01 Yeah. And it's Kovtun's first time in London. Lugavoy's been there for these business meetings before. They fly from Moscow to Gatwick Airport, just south of London, arrive ten forty eight AM. A policeman, interestingly enough, a policeman thinks they look suspicious and actually questions them and remembers them being evasive, but they give a phone number for business meetings they've got, which checks out. So he does, you know, this police officer, it's kind of impressive in a way that he just thinks they're suspicious. And they're eventually allowed to go in. There's not much you can do. They're going to stay at the Best Western in Shaftesbury Avenue, three hundred pounds a night back in two thousand and six. I mean, not cheap London hotels.
12:44 Speaker 01 But the details, I mean, we, we have really granular detail about this. I think it's really worth going into it because it gives a sense of what's going on and, and the, the details, the mechanics of the plot. They change into some business clothes on arrival at the hotel, which, which the staff think look very Russian, shiny suits and big chunky jewellery.
13:05 Speaker 01 I think they look like the Russian mob, basically. Then that afternoon, they meet Lipinenko and one of these business due diligence contacts at the boardroom. They're discussing the possible deal with Gazprom. The room's not very big, room for about six chairs or so, tea and coffee on the table. Lugavoy suggests Lipinenko and others have a drink, seems quite insistent.
13:27 Speaker 01 And we will come back later to evidence the police will find that the Russians did try and poison Lipin Yenka at this meeting, at this moment. But the problem is, he doesn't drink anything. So it's the first attempt, and it's a miss. After that, three Russians go to Itsu. Ever been to Itsu? Sushi place. It's like a chain sushi place in Piccadilly. And this is also, this particular Itsu sushi place is going to be an important scene for the investigation. So it's worth remembering that. Lipin Yenka then goes home. Marina had prepared spicy chicken soup for dinner. Lipin Yenka liked hot food and he ate the
14:09 Speaker 01 soup with some hot peppers. But then sometime after the meal, he starts to feel a little bit ill and he vomits, throws up his food, but just once. And Marina will say, continued to feel a little bit unwell for the next two days, but not that bad. So, you know, bit of an upset stomach. Lugavon and Kovtun though, go out for dinner, fancy place in Mayfair, oysters, grilled lobster and tuna steaks.
14:32 Speaker 00 Is it Claridge's, Gordon? Did they go to Claridge's?
14:34 Speaker 01 I don't think they're quite in your category, David. They're not quite as.
14:38 Speaker 00 Gordon, Gordon, no, no, no. Don't, don't try to besmirch me in this way. You and I, one of, one of our, well, our first breakfast in London, Gordon, our first meeting at London.
14:50 Speaker 01 Before even the podcast, long before it.
14:51 Speaker 00 Before the podcast, long before the, when the podcast was just a, a twinkle in Goldhanger's collective Eye of Sauron eye. That's right. We had, we had breakfast at Claridge's.
15:02 Speaker 01 My usual table at Claridge's where I had breakfast most mornings. Yeah. Mr. Carrera again.
15:06 Speaker 00 Mr. Carrera is here, here to do business at Claridge's. But, so Lugavon and Kovtun, we don't, what, what fans, where do they go in Mayfair? Do we know?
15:15 Speaker 01 I'm not sure. I could probably find the name of the restaurant. It's a fancy place. Oysters, grilled lobster and tuna steaks, pretty good. Then they go to a bar and they buy a shisha pipe at a bar. It's another kind of Russian mobster thing to do. No offence to anyone out there who has shisha pipes.
15:30 Speaker 00 No offence to the Russian mobsters who obviously listen to the rest.
15:32 Speaker 01 I meant the general listeners who might have one of those. So that's that day, their first day there. Next day, Tuesday 17th. This is it, this is where it also gets interesting when you get to the detail. The detail's so interesting because Lugavon and Kovtun move from the Best Western Hotel to the Parks Hotel in Knightsbridge for the second of their two nights. Now, this is even though they'd booked for two nights at the first hotel. And they paid for it and they don't ask for a refund. Hmm. And this will later be thought to be because they contaminated the room with a poison. They'd potentially poured it down the sink and they were like, I don't think we want to stay here for another night. And so that looks to be why they suddenly moved.
16:16 Speaker 01 So here they are, new, new hotel. They meet a businessman who they're doing some work for. They meet Lipinenko again at the offices of RISK, one of the due diligence firms. They're working on this vodka case. Then the three of them go back to the Parks Hotel where the two visitors are staying. Go to dinner at a Chinese restaurant named The Golden Dragon. So I've got one restaurant name in, never been, I don't know if I've been there in Gerrard Street. I don't know if they're one of our sponsors, but anyways.
16:43 Speaker 00 Well, after this podcast, definitely not, definitely not.
16:45 Speaker 01 But then they would get sponsorship from ITSU either. They then go to Cafe Bohem, a bar in Soho. Lipinenko here says he only drinks green tea and a glass of Coke at the restaurant. But he says the other two have been drinking. He'd been offered some, but he refuses, goes into a bar, doesn't like it. He's home by 11.
17:04 Speaker 00 But Feneko sounds like he's not a very, he's not having a lot of fun with these guys.
17:09 Speaker 01 I think what's happening is, and we'll come back to these guys. These guys are like, we're in London from Moscow, it's party time. And Lipinenko, his wife's at home, his son's at home, he's a family man. It's like, I want to do this, I've got to do a bit of it with the business guys. You know, I mean, we all know those business meetings where someone is out for a good time. And you're like, I just want to go home to bed.
17:28 Speaker 00 I just need time to go home. I mean, it also sounds like Kovtun and Lugavoy, as we've gone through their itinerary, they haven't been working very hard. Let's be honest, I mean, they've, they've mostly been drinking and eating out.
17:42 Speaker 01 And, and this is the next detail is great because Lugavoy earlier in the day had asked at this hotel reception for a recommendation for a place where he and Kovtun could meet girls. Now, the receptionist suggests a place across the road, which was a brothel. I think the receptionist knows exactly what these two Russians are after. And also, and this is one of those details which is just nuts, a particular Italian Pizza restaurant where the receptionist says you can have pizza with extras.
18:13 Speaker 01 I don't know, but when I'm when I'm asking for extras on my pizza, it's anchovies normally, or maybe olives.
18:20 Speaker 00 You're not normally led to a back room of the of the pizza shop, but this is an Italian pizza restaurant that is also
18:27 Speaker 01 With extras.
18:28 Speaker 00 A brothel.
18:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, but then instead they don't go to that place. Because Lugavoy and Coptun now go to a bar called Hey Joe, which I think is what is called a gentleman's club, David, a gentleman's club.
18:41 Speaker 00 Is that what you call them in the UK?
18:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, but not the gentleman's club of like, you know, the reform
18:46 Speaker 00 Travelers.
18:47 Speaker 01 Travelers. Yeah, not that. This is a particular type of gentleman's club, which I I learnt reading, you know, the the reports into this had mirrors, dance floors and cubicles. And supposedly this detail, I should say, comes from Luke Harding's book, A Very Expensive Poison. Because I've never been to Hey Joe's, just just to clarify that, because Hey Joe's also included a bronze phallus somewhere and a penis shaped tap in the bathroom. This is a different world from our our normal world, but these guys, they go to Hey Joe's and they get back to the hotel at 3am, 10am the next morning, they check out and head back to Moscow.
19:23 Speaker 00 What a business trip they've had. What a business trip. I mean, these guys, I just just to sum it up, what they have done over this three day run is
19:33 Speaker 00 gentlemen's clubs, drinking, eating out and attempted murder. And then and then they go home hungover to Moscow after sleeping for, you know, three hours. I mean, what a trip.
19:47 Speaker 01 What a trip. And and not the last trip they will take because Lugavoy is going to return just a week later on a BA flight this time, but just alone without Coptun. And he books for flights and hotels only the day before. So this is interesting because this isn't clearly a pre-planned business trip. He's doing it in a hurry. Perhaps one could surmise because They didn't manage to achieve what they really wanted to achieve on the first business trip. So he's going to book into room 848 of the Sheraton Hotel. He meets a Georgian businessman in Surrey, who is a friend of Beresovsky and who'd co run the TV channel where he worked. As a footnote, this Georgian businessman, Badry Patakatshishvili, is found dead later in 2008.
20:30 Speaker 01 Maybe heart attack, maybe not, who knows. But another one of those, if you're keeping count, it's another one of those people we meet who ends up dead. Lugavoy also sees Beresovsky during this trip. Fact he sees Beresovsky in person, I think is interesting. Suggests, you know, they're still close, goes shopping, has some business meeting, meets Litvinenko at his hotel bar, early evening of the 27th. Litvinenko drinks tea, Lugavoy red wine. They discuss the plan for Lugavoy to come with Litvinenko to Spain in November to do this work on, you know, the Russian mafia in Spain, you know, and bring down the Russian mafia. It's all kind of interesting. Now, here's what's interesting. At this point, there's no sign, no evidence, that Lugavoy tried to poison Litvinenko when they're drinking together.
21:13 Speaker 01 And the reason, and we'll come back to the evidence for this later, because it looks like something's gone wrong for Lugavoy. It looks like he may have spilled the poison he's using in the bathroom at the hotel in which he's staying. We'll come back to the future how he does it. And so it means it's another fail. You know, the trip is over. He's got to go back to Moscow, having failed to do it. He's going to need to come back again.
21:40 Speaker 00 Well, we'll come back to this poison spill. Like I just, it just feels insane to me that the most valuable thing you've brought with you on the trip, you're like, it's like Inspector Clouseau, like what you just spill the thing in the bathroom. You just, it's remarkable. It's remarkable.
21:53 Speaker 01 And I find it interesting with Lugavoy and Kovtun, because there's an element of clownishness and, you know, with their, you know, Fallas clubs, gentlemen's clubs and, you know, and spilling poison. And yet, as we'll see, the guy's a killer. I mean, allegedly, allegedly.
22:09 Speaker 00 Okay.
22:10 Speaker 01 Allegedly, sorry.
22:11 Speaker 00 Good job, Gordon, yeah.
22:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, that covered me legally. But, you know, that's the thing. It's this weird mix. And I think you often see it with these Russian cases, don't you? Where they're both kind of clownish. We'll see it again with, you know, other poisonings in the future. And dangerous. And that's these guys. So two attempts, kind of attempts, one more still to come. So there, let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll look at the crucial day that leads to Alexander Litvinenko's death.
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23:15 Speaker 00 Welcome back. It's the 31st of October, 2006, and Lugavoy has returned to London with his wife, two daughters, an eight-year-old son in tow, as well as a few friends. For what else, Gordon? But a football match. And this is Arsenal versus CSKA Moscow? Is that right?
23:36 Speaker 01 Yeah. You a big fan of the Arsenal?
23:38 Speaker 00 No, they're Bin Laden's team though, right?
23:41 Speaker 01 They are, and Keir Starmer.
23:43 Speaker 00 And Keir Starmer, yeah.
23:44 Speaker 01 Lugavoy is also, well, he's a CSKA Moscow fan.
23:48 Speaker 00 He's not an Arsenal fan.
23:49 Speaker 01 He's not with Bin Laden and Keir Starmer in the stands.
23:51 Speaker 00 That's right.
23:52 Speaker 01 Now, this is interesting, I think, because he's here with his family. He's here with his daughters, his son, also some friends, and they'd planned this holiday. But at the very last minute, Kovtun is added to the trip, the very last minute. The decision to bring Kovtun is taken midway during Lugavoy's previous stay, when he's at this hotel where he spills the poison. Hmm. Now, does that seem suspicious to you? I mean, you know, halfway through a trip in which you may have spilled some poison, you go, you know, I might need you to come for the next trip, you know, I'm coming next week, come along. I mean, you can see when you look at it in hindsight, what's going on there, can't you?
24:35 Speaker 00 You can. There's also, this is making me think that there, there is a set of interactions that we're not going to be able to talk about because I don't think anyone has ever unearthed any evidence around them, which is the interaction between Lugavoy and Kovtun and the supplier of the poison.
24:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I agree.
24:52 Speaker 00 Who is, who is probably like, these guys spill in the poison, they keep coming back. You know, we have a failed attempt. We have, I, I wonder what Lugavoy told them had happened on the trip where he had spilled the poison because I'm going to guess he didn't admit to spilling the poison.
25:08 Speaker 01 No, I agree.
25:09 Speaker 00 In the, in the bathroom. I would like to see that, see that interaction now. Wonder how that went down.
25:14 Speaker 01 So I think, you know, the likelihood is he spilt it on the second trip. And he now realizes this social trip with his family is going to have to be another murder attempt. And it'll help to have Kovtun coming along. Kovtun comes up with all kinds of weird stories that he's coming to London by chance. Or that there's a business meeting. It's very confusing. But, you know, the assumption is that he's been asked. Now, this is where it gets also very interesting with Kovtun. Because what's he been doing? And this is, you know, another wild bit of the story. Kovtun has been in Hamburg and he flew there on October the 26th. And something very interesting happens here, according to German police who investigate it later. Koftun is there to see his ex-wife and kids.
25:57 Speaker 01 But during it, we talked about he used to work at this restaurant, this place called Il Porto. And he get, one of the people he worked with as a waiter at Il Porto in the mid 90s, which is in the harbour area of Hamburg. He gets in touch with them, they'd kept in touch after they both left. They meet up to play chess, interesting enough, have a beer. Koftun telephones him on Monday, October 30th and asks if they could meet. They go for a walk after eating. And I mean, this is, this is wild. Do you want to read this bit?
26:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, sure. This is from his, his friend who's, who's recalling the meeting with Litvinenko in Hamburg. Dmitri asked whether I knew Litvinenko or had heard of him. I answered no. Dmitri said word for word, quote, Litvinenko was a traitor. There is blood on his hands. I went on to say that Litvinenko does deals with Chechnya. And then he asked me whether I knew a cook who was working at London. And then he tells him a name, which has been anonymized as C2. It's Witness C2, who was a cook at Il Porto who had gone to England. And he goes on to say, I cannot remember the exact words.
27:07 Speaker 00 Dmitri said that he had, he had a very expensive poison and needed the cook to administer it to Litvinenko. I cannot remember whether Dmitri said he had the poison. I did not take seriously what Dmitri said. I thought it was just talk. And then the friend is later asked by German police to remember the exact details. And he's, and he says this. Koftun said, I need this cook to put poison in Litvinenko's food or drink. He also said the poison is very expensive. As I have said already, I did not take him seriously. I said to him, he was crazy. It would be much easier to shoot Litvinenko, I said jokingly. Koftun said after that, it is meant to set an example.
27:51 Speaker 00 I answered that he should stop this nonsense.
27:53 Speaker 01 I mean, Koftun, we should say, will dispute this. And also the witness will not be willing to repeat it when asked to testify because they don't want to get involved in it for reasons you can kind of understand. But it's a wild conversation. I mean, you know, you're basically, I mean, you're basically giving away what you're trying to do there. You're, and I mean, Koftun, I mean, again, it's this kind of sense, slightly idiocy of Koftun to just tell this other waiter.
28:20 Speaker 00 So Koftun has. Told a friend, I mean, he's in contact with this guy, but it's a friend who's in Hamburg. So he's not like a super close associate. Kovtun has basically said, there's a hit out on this guy. I'm in charge of the poison. Do you know someone in London who will help me administer it?
28:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:43 Speaker 00 It's really, uh, from an operational security standpoint, an unwise, uh, an unwise thing to do.
28:51 Speaker 01 It doesn't take a former CIA officer to tell me that that is bad tradecraft. I think like, that's bad tradecraft, telling random former waiters about your plot to assassinate someone with a very expensive poison. And so he's given the name of this chef, who's supposedly an Albanian in London. Kovtun then heads straight from Hamburg to, to, to London. He gets an early flight, 6:30 AM. He goes to the hotel, uh, to meet Lugavoy. Now, this hotel is interesting as well because Lugavoy and his family are staying at this place called the Millennium Hotel, which is on one side of Grosvenor Square, just across from what was then the US Embassy, David. You must have been there.
29:31 Speaker 00 I've stayed at the Millennium Hotel.
29:33 Speaker 01 Oh, have you?
29:34 Speaker 00 I have. Yes, yes, I stayed there on a, a liaison trip to visit with British counterparts. It was, uh, it was years, of course, later than this.
29:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:45 Speaker 00 But yeah.
29:45 Speaker 01 The embassy was just, just literally a stone's throw. Yeah. From where it used to be. Yeah. So, you know, all of this is happening and will happen, as we'll see, in the shadow of the US Embassy. It's interesting. Lugavoy is going to call Litvinenko, trying to arrange a meeting. Kovtun's arrived. He's got his own, he's not actually even got his own room. He's sharing with one of Lugavoy's friends, which again is a bit weird.
30:06 Speaker 00 They're all there for the, for the, for the football match, right?
30:08 Speaker 01 And then suddenly Kovtun at the last minute has pitched up. So they're like, okay, you stay, you stay with this other guy. So now we come to the day, the crucial day, November the 1st, 2006. Lugavoy, Lugavoy books his family on the big bus sightseeing tour of London at 10:26 AM. I mean, it's again, these details are just bizarre, aren't they? Got to get him out of the way, I guess, one way.
30:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, exactly. He needs an activity to put. Get everyone out of his way for a few hours.
30:35 Speaker 01 He's going to meet Kovtun, they're going to call Beresovski, they're going to go to some business meetings in the morning, they're going to call the chef, so this Albanian chef, who they, you know, El Porto Kovtun has, you know, been connected to, but to see if he can meet up, but he's busy, he's out in Stratford, way out in East London, he's busy. They say, okay, we'll call you back, but this is interesting because already the plan of kind of getting this chef involved is falling apart because he's busy. And immediately after they call the chef,
31:05 Speaker 01 Lugavoy calls Lipinenko, it's close to midday, and Lugavoy will later claim that it was Lipinenko which called him, but the phone records show they're calling Lipinenko. And it looks like they'd originally planned to meet the next day, but Lugavoy is asking to bring the meeting forward, maybe it's they've got no chef, you know, having a problem getting a chef, they're going to do it themselves. Lipinenko had been at home that day, he heads into town. First he meets a boss from one of the due diligence companies, but then he gets an unexpected call from our friend Mario Scaramella, remember him from earlier on?
31:46 Speaker 01 So the guy who was working on the Italian Metrocyn Commission, the consultant there. And Scaramella says he wants to meet urgently, a little bit suspicious, he wants to meet right now, that afternoon, today. So he and Lipinenko meet at Piccadilly Circus, and Scaramella always likes a bit of a, you know, spy tradecraft, he's into, you know, he's one of those people, but he's much more nervous than usual, some might think suspiciously nervous. "Let's eat", the Italian says, so they go to Itsu.
32:16 Speaker 00 The sushi place, yeah.
32:18 Speaker 01 The same sushi place at 3pm for half an hour. Now, this meeting is fascinating because Scaramella is handing over some documents, but he's also passing on news he's had from a contact, and the news is that there is a hit list of people who are thought to be enemies of Russia. Who are going to be eliminated and Scaramella's source has told him that the killings have already started. And Alapolotskoye was one of those on the list. And of course, you know, we were talking about the fact she had been just killed a few weeks earlier. Scaramella says his name is on this hit list. Boris Berizovsky is on this hit list and so is Litvinenko.
32:59 Speaker 01 And Scaramella says, some people might be shot and some people might be poisoned with radioactive thallium. Scaramella's been told. He is really worried and he's telling Litvinenko to warn him. I mean, it's a weird, interesting coincidence, but somehow word is getting around. But Litvinenko seems to think, well, you know, I'm always getting warnings. Who knows?
33:27 Speaker 00 So right after this warning, what Litvinenko then does is he heads to meet the poisoners. Kovtun and Lugavoy, calling them to say he's, he's on the way. Now Kovtun and Lugavoy have gotten back to back at their hotel. It's around 3pm. At 3.30, there's CCTV footage of the two of them, of Kovtun and Lugavoy, going separately to the toilets by reception at the Millennium Hotel.
33:55 Speaker 01 And then at four o'clock, Litvinenko arrives.
34:00 Speaker 01 We're going to go into this in real detail because it's important. Lugavoy approaches Litvinenko in reception and says, we're meeting at the bar. And he takes him over to the Pine Bar, which is the kind of wood panel bar just next to reception. Don't know if you drank there, David, in your time, maybe, maybe not.
34:16 Speaker 00 I don't, I don't remember it. I don't remember. Maybe there, maybe by this point there was a warning to not go to the Pine Bar because of.
34:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, might be because of what happened.
34:24 Speaker 00 Washing out the pipes.
34:25 Speaker 01 One interesting fact is there are CCTV cameras everywhere in this hotel, all around reception, none in the Pine Bar. Pine Bar's crowded. There are two small tables pulled together in reception. And Lugavoy guides Litvinenko to these tables. Now Kovtun is initially away on the phone. Lipinenko sits opposite Lugavoy, kind of diagonally opposite. Lugavoy had been there for a while already and had ordered drinks and he'll end up racking up more than a 70 pound bill covering cigars and champagne cocktails. It's back to the fancy lifestyle.
35:09 Speaker 00 It's not clare just money, but it's, you know, it's not nothing to sniff at either. Don't you have, you have the receipt though, right?
35:15 Speaker 01 So the receipt for that table was three teas, three Gordon's Gin and three tonics to go with it, one champagne cocktail, one Romeo and Julietta cigar, a number 11 Gordon's Gin. Looks like the total bill was 70 pounds 60. So they begin talking about business meeting they're going to have the next day. Lugavoy's in a rush because he needs to get to the football with his family. Says he doesn't have long. A waiter comes over to the table. Lugavoy says to Lipinenko, if you want to order something for yourself, then you can, but we're leaving soon. There's still some tea left here though. And Lugavoy indicates a teapot, which is already on the table. And there'd been an order for green tea with
35:57 Speaker 01 lemon and honey, which is Lipinenko's drink, basically. And the tea had been made in this large white porcelain pot behind the bar, but it's always left to customers to pour out. Lugavoy doesn't seem to push Lipinenko to drink it. Seems quite laid back about it, which is interesting, isn't it? He's not like going, have some tea, which I guess you wouldn't, would you?
36:17 Speaker 00 Well, and they've already kind of pushed some drinks on him in earlier visits. So they're, they're probably thinking, let's not do that again. It is also interesting because I don't, I don't think of either Lugavoy or Kavton as, as tea drinkers. And yet they've got this pot of tea because they know that, that Lipinenko is.
36:35 Speaker 01 It is kind of, I think, smart what they're doing because they've said they've got to go soon. So there's probably not time to order something. If Lipinenko orders something, he's probably worried, I'm then going to have to pay the bill and it's expensive. So, you know, you don't want to get caught with a bill if you're Lipinenko. So he's kind of thinking, oh, well, you know, it's fine. They're talking about the plan that they're going to go to Spain together, Lugavoy, Lipinenko.
37:00 Speaker 01 And Lipinenko, as they're talking, pours out about half a cup of green tea. There wasn't much left in the pot, which suggests maybe it had been drunk, whatever. But he doesn't see anyone else drink from the same pot. Now, the tea is already cold and he also normally has it with sugar. So he has a few sips, maybe three or four sips. And that's it. It just doesn't taste that nice because it's cold and it's not sweet enough. Interestingly enough, if he'd had more, then the long drawn out death which he's going to face would have been much quicker. And actually, the whole story could have been quite different. No one else drinks from the pot. Kovtun comes back to the table.
37:40 Speaker 01 Just before four thirty, Lugavoy's friends and his wife and kids turn up in the lobby of the hotel. The lobby is right next to the bar. The wife waves and then something really odd happens. Lugavoy brings his eight year old son over to Lipinenko and says, this is Uncle Sasha. Sasha being the kind of name for Alexander, the diminutive. Shake his hand. But they shake hands and the boy leaves. Interesting, isn't it?
38:11 Speaker 00 I would not have, uh, probably wouldn't have asked my eight year old son to shake the hand of the guy I just poisoned with a exceptionally powerful and radioactive poison. But, you know, I don't know. I just, maybe, maybe I'm an overly protective father, Gordon. That just doesn't seem, it seems, it seems odd. It also, I guess it suggests that Kovtun and Lugavoy maybe don't understand what sort of poison they've been given.
38:37 Speaker 01 I think that feels right to me. I think they think it's something you're gonna, I mean, they're right. It's something you put in a drink that you're going to ingest. But I don't think they understand it's radioactivity and therefore that there's a risk of wider contamination. Because otherwise, you just wouldn't do it. You wouldn't bring your, your son over. But they have this encounter around 4:30, so about after half an hour or so in this pine bar, Litvinenko leaves. Litvinenko then goes to Beresovsky's office on Down Street, actually the same one I visited four years earlier, maybe to show him the documents that Scaramella has given him, you know, all the stuff about plots, because of course
39:18 Speaker 01 there's plots against Beresovsky's life against, as well as Litvinenko's, according to Scaramella. And then Ahmed Zakharov, the Chechen friend of them both, will drive Litvinenko home that evening, back to North London. He doesn't know it, but he's now a dead man walking.
39:36 Speaker 00 Well, Gordon, there with the soon to be fatal radioactive poison delivered to Litvinenko in that teapot. Let's end this episode. When we come back next time, we'll see how the really horrific and drawn out process of his death unfolds and what it says about the regime of Vladimir Putin. Of course, if you don't want to wait, don't wait. Go and join the Declassified Club at therestisclassified.com where you'll get early access to all of the episodes in this series, including the bonus episodes we'll be doing, where we'll be talking
40:19 Speaker 00 with some very interesting guests, including a police officer who was heavily involved in the investigation into Litvinenko's murder. We'll see you next time. See you next time.
40:48 Speaker 05 The Great Game, strategic struggle between Britain and Russia.
40:55 Speaker 06 We assess Prime Minister with high confidence it was Russian.
41:01 Speaker 03 Holding the Russians accountable is World War III. They took down a British passenger jet containing 350 people.
41:06 Speaker 05 Man in the Kremlin is playing, Alex. Got to ask yourself, do you want to play or not? You're the Prime Minister. You've done nothing.
41:20 Speaker 02 We would need to understand the policy context.
41:22 Speaker 05 All the relevant context will be structured as a framework today, disseminated into an operation order, or FRAGO.
41:30 Speaker 00 A FRAGO that says to kill the President of Russia?
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