Questlove & Open Mike Eagle Talk About Soundtracks

In this mini-episode, Questlove and Open Mike Eagle dig into the real economics behind movie soundtracks and sync licensing. Sparked by a listener question about Saturday Night Fever and Rick Dees’ “Disco Duck,” they break down how fees, royalties, and leverage have shifted from the compilation-album era to today’s catalog-buyout climate. Along the way, the two also revisit the quietly stacked High School High Soundtrack, The Roots’ role in it, and a fateful night linking D’Angelo, Erykah Badu, The Fugees, and Marvin Gaye’s storied studio. Ahmir and Mike also reflect on overloaded summers, vanishing time, and how the right song in the right scene can rewrite music history. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  The Questlove Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Brother Amir, how you doing?

• 1:29Speaker 03

  Ooh, like that?

• 1:32Speaker 03

  That's a mighty exhale, my brother. Mighty exhale.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  You know, I think I'm having what they would call first world problems. But problems are still problems.

• 1:42Speaker 03

  They are. They're not easy. Just because they're first world don't make them easy.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's the ongoing be careful for what you ask for Olympics with me. This is probably the most packed summer I've had in my, the history of my existence. Like, I think, I think an average person has like, one or two major projects to do a year. And, you know, what happens is oftentimes I'm pitched to do stuff usually a year and a half in advance. You know, there are people pitching me projects and ideas now for like, 2028, top of 2029. So of course I'm gonna say, yeah, of course, no problem. I'll be done by then.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  And then it turns into, you know, bitch better have my movie. You know what I mean? Like, so.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  I didn't realize studios talked to you like that, but that's good to know.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Nah, boy, they, it's the way they remind you the deadline's coming up. So, you know, so Amir, you know, that orchestral project we talked about, you know, for September of 2026? And I'm like, yeah, you know, how's it going? Great. You know what I mean? It's not that specifically, but you get my point.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  I do.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  How's your summer been?

• 3:05Speaker 03

  Oh, it's been a different, it's been busy, but a different kind of busy. Like, I feel like.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  So everything's different. Like, it's not just me.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  Well, I similarly have a bunch of different plates spinning. I feel like the plates I have spinning are a little closer to my body, though, so I can reach them. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like yours, you gotta stand on all type of ladders and cranes and stuff to keep your plates spinning.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 03

  So I don't envy that. But I do understand how quickly these days go by and how these mountains of work pile up when you have a lot you're trying to do.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Is this summer going by fast for you?

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Quick, like, it's, it's zoom, like, it's the middle of July already. That's nuts.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like April yesterday, right?

• 3:47Speaker 03

  It's nuts.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Like, I definitely put up my Marvin Gaye, rest in peace, post, like, back in April. And now, like, I almost feel like we might as well just say it's August.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty much. We in the second half of July. It's going by. It's almost done. We're gonna be in the fall.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  But it's the 4th of July, like, a week, like, maybe five days ago, right?

• 4:08Speaker 03

  There's no such thing as time. It no longer exists. It no longer exists.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  You know what? It's funny you say that. I'm, I'm still in post Earth, Wind & Fire research syndrome. And I'm still going down the, the book list of like Maurice White books I should read. And I'm, I'm right now on David Nevins, and he speaks a lot about, like, time really doesn't exist.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  It's all relative.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Time is only slow when shit's fucked up.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  When you can't wait for whatever you in to be over.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  To be over, so.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Speaking of.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  I, I guess we're having fun if, if shit is.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Moving quick.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Moving quickly, yeah.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Uh, speaking of time, though, this is a mini episode, so we got a mailbag question that I think could lead to a real cool, quick conversation. Submitted by Mario, who has a question for the mailbag. Heard a minute of an interview with director John Badham of Saturday Night Fever. He was introduced with the comment about the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack being the biggest soundtrack of all time. I've heard the story of how DJ Rick D's declined having his novelty hit Disco Duck included on the soundtrack would cost him a lot of money, which makes.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  This is making the questioner wonder, how does it work to get your song on the soundtrack? Do you get paid a set fee as an artist? Uh, and in the old days of pure album sales, do you get a royalty base? So basically asking about the economics of how soundtrack works, especially back in the day, because I feel like I came up in a golden age of movie soundtracks. And there were some root songs on some very important ones. Best Man, High School High, like.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  Okay, it's funny you say that, because, um, right now, I'm, I just happened to start binge watching this series on Apple TV. It's gotten like a lot of nominations for the Emmys. I think they have 19 nominations. And of course, I'm stalling because.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  Can't remember the name.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  So, uh, oh, Widows.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, I was thinking it might be Widows. But I didn't know that they, it got nominated for Emmys because it's so new. But it's a fantastic show.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  I think it has more than, yeah, it has one more than Pluribus. Pluribus was supposed to be like the, the belle of the ball, but Widows Bay has 19 Emmy nominations. And one of the most humorous observations I noticed about that show, yo, man, like, quality control by the Jurassic Five, to me, has to be one of the most licensed songs of all time. You, okay, so here's the deal. And I was thinking about this question, basically, like, probably like, three days ago. One of the very first records that I received as a gift was a compilation album, Soul Train,

• 7:13Speaker 02

  and it's like, fourth season, released like in, they would have party albums. You know, like, now, somebody will put a bunch of songs together and stream it and play it at the house party, so that the, the party can keep going. Records weren't like that. Mostly in the 50s and 60s, people would listen to comedy records, like Red Fox Records was known as a party album.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Right, at a party, which is weird, like, you're like, talking, but you're also like, listening to, to Red Fox. And then, of course, like, every DJ that we admire would say that, like, they grew up in the 60s and 70s as the record player person, like, get a bunch of 45s and it's your job to keep the music going. And, you know, once in a blue moon, they would make these party records, which is basically just like the first version of Now That's What I Call Music. So Soul Train had the same thing. They would have like a 20-song compilation on this album called Soul Train Super Tracks. And it was like, it's literally 20 songs on a single album, so already the grooves are like, minuscule.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  And, you know, they would license these songs, like, there are companies that you and I are probably familiar with that, maybe they wouldn't know today, like K-Tell, like, there would be labels specifically whose job it was.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  To have these licensing agreements with these.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, to license songs. And, yo, it was just, it was super cheap. Somewhere, I'm trying to figure out, when did the tables turn? And I almost feel like, when I started getting into the game of licensing songs, very briefly, when I thought I had a career as a music scorer for films and people would hire me to not only score music, but also to like, play songs, like around 2008, 2007, 2008, I would say that, for the most part, people were honored to be included on a soundtrack, so they wouldn't go all in. They wouldn't say, hey, I'm A-list such and such.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  They wouldn't want an arm and a leg.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  And I want, yeah, I want 2 million for it. It's almost like, oh, promotion, like, this in a movie. So like, a good example of the last days of that glory period would be like the Eight Mile soundtrack. FOMO, of course, you want to be on the Eminem soundtrack thingamajigga. So, pretty much, I'll say like around 2010, especially when I started working in terms of like, working for television shows, in which, you know, good side money for me was always like, whatever series is on HBO. I don't mean like Entourage. I forget the names of the shows that I was a part of, but I would easily be called in

• 9:59Speaker 02

  just so that I could share my playlist and hopefully I could recommend something that was cheap. So, this is what I mean. If you are familiar with the film called Maid, Vince, Vince Vaughn and, what's his name? Yeah, Jon Favreau. Their follow-up film, there were Swingers and then there was Maid. Same, it's almost like the same movie. And there's a scene where they have to go up to Harlem to meet Diddy at a nightclub. He's like a gangster type. Meet him at a nightclub. And for one thing, Grandmaster Flash is spinning at this nightclub. And what does he spend? He spends quality control by the Jurassic Five.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  I'm sitting there watching Diddy in the club, like in his bottle service glory moment. And I'm like, there's no way in the world you would tell me that

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Diddy would be in a nightclub, listening to the Jurassic Five.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Right, with Grandmaster Flash spinning Jurassic.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  With Grandmaster Flash spinning. This is pretty much how like, I mean, we've licensed, The Roots have licensed The Fire, and here I come to at least 10 to 20 of those things. Um, we come in, you come in low in the name of, we want to promote. I mean, it's, it's, it's a fair cash cow. Uh, I would say now low balling would be anywhere between 10 and $15,000 to license. But then on the other hand, if you want to license, uh, say, song that's been iconic, like Crazy in Love or Umbrella, you know, especially if you watch a show like, uh, Maya Rudolph's, her television show, which

• 11:43Speaker 02

  is notorious, like they at least use 10 to 20 songs. Those shits are expensive. You know what I mean? And it just depends. Even shit, even with my own movies, like, do you know how weird it is to be asked by a company to do a documentary about their artists? So that they could sell records and they're still charging me for using their music?

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, see, I get it, but that's, that's almost disappointing to hear, even though I get it.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  The amount of letters I had to write to say, look, it's really crucial that we include this song. Like normally when you start with a project, they give you just enough money to maybe clear 20 songs and hopefully you're working. Now, in the case of Earth, when in Fire, a big part of the reason why I was able to get 25 to 30 songs cleared is because they wrote a majority of their songs.

• 12:42Speaker 03

  So they had more control.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, somewhat.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.

• 13:09Speaker 04

  That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. To find your creativity and to believe in yourself, because somewhere in the midst of it, I stopped believing that my voice mattered and that I could find it again. That's a challenge. I was not feeling very confident creatively, only, um, again, defiant in my belief that

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  what this is about is express something honest. Say something honest.

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• 14:36Speaker 02

  One of the snags I had was there's a scene where, when he starts working for Chess Records, I use Marlena Shaw's California Soul because I wanted hip hop heads that are familiar with gang stars use it. Right. However, that wasn't my first choice. My first choice was, uh, the drum break that we would know as Leader of the New School's Case of the PTA.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  It's like a famous drum break that Maurice White did. However, that song is Mighty Quinn, which is written by Bob Dylan. Now, if you remember during the pandemic, Bob Dylan's people made an announcement that he sold his entire catalog. So that's what's happening now. He sold his entire catalog to, uh, this company for $300 million. So they're not in the benevolent for history's sake business. They're in the fuck you pay me bitch, but I have my money.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  We gotta, we gotta get this 300 mil back.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Right. And I'm basically like, look, I just want to use the drum break 13 seconds. Do you mind cut me a break? And, you know, I even went to the point as far as saying like, in my future films, I'll use more, more music from your acquirements if you want me to. But they wanted full rate for it and it wasn't worth four times the price. Like they're trying to recoup their 300 million back. So that's kind of what's happening now. Now, in the case of, I think I'm in case of Rick D's and Saturday Night Fever, which, you know, Saturday Night Fever, in my opinion, is the gold standard of the mega record.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Like that's the album that Michael Jackson was watching when he said, I want to sell more records than, matter of fact, matter of fact, on the demo of Shake Your Body Down to the Ground, you literally hear Randy and Michael working on the song that's before Shake Your Body Down to the Ground, which is Things I Do For You on their Destiny album. And towards the end of it, Randy changes the key and Mike's like, ooh, ooh, what's that? And they're doing what we will eventually know as Shake Your Body Down to the Ground. So they're just like riffing and stuff. And at the very end of that riff, for like a minute, you're Jackie Jackson say, man, I can't wait for the Bee Gees to hear this shit.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  So that goes to show you how

• 17:07Speaker 02

  major that soundtrack was. You know, that could move, and it won Album of the Year. So as a result, you know, Cool and the Gang was almost on the way out. And yet that was enough to sustain them for a little two years before they got to their eighties phase. I don't know why, I'm actually glad it didn't make the soundtrack, even though I had that 45 when I was in first grade. But I, I think it would have, that was a credible disco album.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it was the only one I have personally. I know, you know, not to, not to be dismissive of the era at all, but that to me was like, oh, this is.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  No, it was, it was actually a credible disco album. I got it in second grade as a gift. Listen to it over, you know what I mean? Like it, it, it was required in every household. Matter of fact, I've never seen the movie until, I didn't see the movie.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Seen the movie.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Dude, the most depressing movie ever.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  You wouldn't expect that based on that soundtrack. You wouldn't expect it.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  No, like it's, you know what? You know what's weird? So I think I seen that movie. I've definitely seen it when I started working at The Tonight Show. It must've been one of them times when like John Travolta came on the show and I realized, yo, I've seen Grease, I've seen Pulp Fiction, I've seen Get Your, I've seen all John Travolta's films, except for the one film that made him a star. And I watched it and I was like, wait a minute, this soundtrack would lead you to believe that this was like.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Nonstop party.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  In a me. Right. And it wasn't. And that's when I realized that as much as we like love and reminisce about the seventies and the eighties and even the nineties, those were the worst of times. It's just that the sound, the music soundtrack was our escapism for such a harsh period. That's my.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  So, so as we, you know, bring this particular conversation to a close, I did want to focus on one of these soundtracks that I heard Roots, like Roots music on.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  And high school, high school, specifically.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  I hate you, man. Why, why, why you gotta be, why you gotta be deep cut Smurf, man?

• 19:21Speaker 03

  I mean, look, I'm telling you, to me, right, this is a deep cut, because this is like, it's not a movie people think about at all, but like in the height of my gotta have it all, going to the record store every week, this is a soundtrack I bought. And like, I was just endlessly entertained by the music on this soundtrack.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  It was power packed.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  It was power packed.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Uh, D'Angelo and Erykah Badu on here, uh, Woolware, the garment Renaissance.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  De La Soul's Can't Call It. Um, so much. I mean.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  I think Tribes on there.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  I think, yeah, yeah. Piece of Prosperity and Paper. Um, dude, like, what do you remember about this? Like this, putting this together?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Okay. So I, I told you the story of how I met D'Angelo at the House of Blues.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Right, at that.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  In, um, in Los Angeles, I thought his date had a very unusual head wrap on her head. Only to find out she's Erykah Badu. And I'm also meeting them on March 30th. And they're telling me that they're going to what we will know as Marvin's Room. Uh, damn, rest in peace. I forgot. Marvin's Room burnt down in the, in the Palisades fire. No more Marvin Gaye's studio. But they went to Marvin Gaye's studio, which was famous for kind of being in a, a time portal that never moved.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  The way that he had that studio in 1978, when he last used it for Here My Dear, is the same condition that it's been in until that Palisades fire. They never changed a thing, not the interior, nothing. So they recorded a Marvin Gaye, Tammy Terrell song at Marvin Gaye's studio the next day after I met them at the House of Blues, which essentially is like the summit meeting of all of us meeting. He, he just met Erykah eight hours before and I'm meeting him and Erykah eight hours later as they come to see The Roots and The Fugees and Goodie Mob at the House of Blues. And it just so happens that Kader Massenberg was within earshot.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  So then he comes and says, hey, she wants to work with y'all next. And so we will eventually start working on other side of the game and stuff, and stuff with Erykah in about a month. And then he introduces us to, I forget who the sound, I think, I think maybe Reeve, somebody that used to work at the Source that then got an A and R gig. Was sort of spearheading the sound of the High School High soundtrack. We did that song at Dallas Austin studio on a day off. The Fugees were next door, working on what I believe was gonna, I believe they were working on what will eventually become The Sweetest Thing.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  And we were working on that High School High soundtrack song in Dallas Austin studio. And the guy that does all the uh, the reggae chanting thing, that was like, I think it was like Roswell's cousin or something like he, he liked hanging with us. I don't know if it was for the weed or whatever, like, but, you know, it was like a kind of a happy summit meeting between the Roots and the Fugees uh, at the Dallas Austin studio in Atlanta, Georgia. So, that's pretty much what I remember.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  Well, uh, as always, our conversations can unfold a hundred different ways and we can talk for hours. So I, I mean, I look forward to maybe picking that up sometime in the future, too.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  But good to connect on this one and uh, talk to you again shortly.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  The Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Lunchbox from the Bobby Bones Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla Sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or an adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 24:11Speaker 06

  If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rogers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.