QLS Classic: The Family Stand Part 2

Sandra, Peter and Jeff return to talk about record label drama, a shelved solo album, Rick James, the Black Rock Coalition and so much more!!!!

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Speaker 00

  Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  All right, people. Last week, we re-released part one of the 2020 Family Stand episode. We are back with part two. And this 80-minute half of the conversation, the team Supreme and I dig into the business. Sandra's the exit from Atlantic Records and recording for Elektra, the, air quote, Sylvia Rowan incident. She talks about the album that never came out, not to mention her working with Prince on Sanctuary, Soul Sanctuary, and Curtis Mayfield's mentorship, Stevie Wonder taking notes, and more Billy Ocean talk. Look, I love this Family Stand episode. I'm grateful for this episode. It's one of our wildest ever. Please listen with me. All right.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  So we were on you. I'm sorry. For your rudely rude interruption.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  That was a good interruption. I like that.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, so.

• 2:07Speaker 05

  I mean, she said, she said something that we definitely should acknowledge.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  Which is?

• 2:12Speaker 05

  You know, Jimmy giving her the heads up on a certain someone.

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Thank you for giving me the heads up on Prince.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 2:20Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Wait a minute. What happened? Her solo record in...

• 2:24Speaker 05

  Which one?

• 2:25Speaker 00

  93?

• 2:25Speaker 05

  There was 93, the Sanctuary album.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, what happened?

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 2:29Speaker 00

  So you left, you left, well, I'm not saying Merlin, Bob, and Sylvia, but just to return to them, wasn't your solo project on?

• 2:40Speaker 04

  Okay. How much time do we have? So.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Look at the time. Are we gonna be crying after the story?

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Probably. No, no, it's actually kind of funny when I look back. Wasn't funny then. But no. So I was, of course, so, so as a group with Atlantic, they were signed as producers. It was gonna be a producers' album, but then we decided to make it just us. So then they had to sign me in an inducement letter, right? So I was signed separately. They were committed to five albums. I was only committed to three albums. And after that third album, we, we saw that the label wasn't gonna give us any real love, right? It was like they were treating us like.

• 3:23Speaker 05

  Like they've been doing.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Like, doo, doo. So, so, you know, we said, look, let's just, let's just take you someplace else. You, your, your deal is up. Let's go do basically Fam Stand someplace else, but just under your name, right?

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Okay, so, because I was free. I was free.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  And that was fine. And so I remember the meeting with me and, and our, and our manager, Abby, with Sylvia Rowan. And he told her.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Rowan or Ruin?

• 3:49Speaker 04

  Sylvia Ruenthall. So.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  Just let it sit for a second. I gotta, I gotta rep for Fonte. Nigga.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  I sound like Foley. That's what Foley says to me all the time. Nigga.

• 4:06Speaker 04

  You know Foley?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  We actually need to get Foley on, too.

• 4:09Speaker 04

  You gotta have Foley. Foley's crazy. I love him. He's like.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  The original Foley.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  He says to me all the time. Well, so, we're in the meeting, and Abby's explaining to her. So basically, we're here because Sandra's deal is up, and we just want to let you know that you have first right of refusal. So you could, you know, pick up a solo artist, or she's going someplace else. And she was like, no, that's not true. That's not true. No, that's not true. And he said, but it is. No, that's not true. That's not true. But it is. That's what, this went on for like three or four times. She picks up the phone, calls Business Affairs, uh huh, uh huh, slams the phone down. Ooh, she was mad. So she was mad as hell. And then she was just like, uh huh, okay, okay. She was tight, man. She was tight. So we, we exited the room, right? We just exited because she

• 4:57Speaker 04

  was woo. We left. And that was fine. She was, this is when she was still at, you know, Atlantic, right? I mean, Atlantic.

• 5:04Speaker 00

  Can I ask a question?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  East, west, east, west.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Can I ask a question, though?

• 5:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  So when you tell a label exec.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  A label exec. Thank you. I'm black.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  Blackity black.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  When you tell a label exec, that was scary as fuck, right?

• 5:25Speaker 00

  It was just scary. I'm telling you, this is the best episode ever. When you tell them, look, can we, can you let us go because, you know?

• 5:34Speaker 04

  You ain't doing that for us?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Okay, that, it was a hostile thing?

• 5:41Speaker 04

  No, you can't say it like that. It'll depend on who you're talking to.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  Because I wrote the most humbling letter ever to Jimmy. Like Jimmy Iovine was crying at the end, like.

• 5:49Speaker 04

  That's sweet.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  I just said, sir, you have all these platinum artists, like, you almost said it all. Right?

• 5:55Speaker 04

  No, but we.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  So why, why the need to hang on to you?

• 5:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a, it's a whole egg on the face thing for some people. And there's, there's an ego issue with some folks.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  But if they let you. So the fear of you having success on another label.

• 6:09Speaker 04

  Someplace else, it would be egg on their face.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:12Speaker 05

  Because I couldn't make it work, but they could. Oh, that's not good.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  No, that makes me look like I was, I was the failure and not the artist. So, okay, let me just give them, try to cut to the chase. So.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  No, no, no. Give us the long version.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  So, so we, we leave this meeting. It was over. Okay, I'm free and clear. And she was obviously not gonna give me, you know, the first, she wasn't gonna try to pick me up herself because she was pissed. And so we go do our little searching. We're talking to Sony. We're talking to Epic. We're talking, we got like, you know, a little, little bidding war going on. I wanted to go with Elektra, the boutique label, because they love black women. They had Anita Baker. They had Tracy Chapman. They had Natalie Cole. They had, they had Anita Baker. It was like, I can't even think of it. They had like so many. It was thick with just big black women voices.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Crasnow was there.

• 6:56Speaker 04

  Bob Crasnow.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  Crasnow was there.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  Crasnow, love.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Oh, he loved black women. Pointer Sisters.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  He loved black women.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Bob Crasnow, yes.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  He loved, he loved voices, man. So he was like, he was like, you know, he wasn't offering the most money.

• 7:10Speaker 00

  No, no, this story's about the girl that Rory laughing at the punchline.

• 7:14Speaker 04

  Oh, stop. So, okay, so you see what, you see what's happening?

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Oh, I can't wait for this story.

• 7:19Speaker 04

  So, so, so Bob Crasnow's there, it's like dope. And he's like, I've got like a nine hundred, a thousand dollar budget, which is great back in the day. He sent me, we had finished the album, Albums in the Can, sent me to Jamaica to do the photo shoot. I'm in the limo on the way back from Jamaica, get a call from Michael Alago, my, my A and R at the time. First it was Carol Chislin and Michael Alago. He said, did you hear what happened? I said, no. He said Bob Crasnow stepping down. And I was like, oh, damn, shit, because I love that dude. You know, but it's cool. Albums in the Can, you know, we, we just finished the shoot, boom, boom. And he's like, you know who took his place? I'm like, of course, I don't even know he stepped down. And he said, he said Sylvia Rowan.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  Elektra. Elektra. Oh, no, no, no, Jesus, why?

• 8:12Speaker 00

  Sorry. I need a little bit more of that one.

• 8:16Speaker 05

  I thought you were gonna go dun, dun, da.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Damn, I feel like by the time she got there, it was only In Vogue left over. So what was that meeting? What was that meeting like?

• 8:29Speaker 04

  So then I wrote her a letter.

• 8:32Speaker 05

  I thought you were going someplace, see? Yeah, see? Kill my brother. I'm gonna kill you, see?

• 8:39Speaker 04

  I wrote her a nice letter, sent her a candle.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  Sister girl.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  I was like, girl, hey, you know, this is time for us to like, women are like, you know, this is a woman thing. I tried my best, I did.

• 8:58Speaker 06

  She would ever bit you with her eyes?

• 9:00Speaker 04

  I tried to, yo, yo, I sent her a letter and a candle. And so I was like, okay, I figured she was just, you know, I said, I'm glad to see you here, let's sit down. And let's just, you know.

• 9:13Speaker 06

  Black women working, girl.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, women and sisters are doing it for the kids.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  She was like, can you come on in, let's sit down and talk.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  And so, I was like, okay, yeah, so go and sit down, oh my god, her eyes were on fire. So she sat there, and she was, she was, she's letting me talk, and we played the music some more, cause she'd already heard the album, and she's, no, no, play it for me. So I played it, she was milking this shit, let me tell you something, she was milking, you know her.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Milking it, her eyes was just like, watching me, right? And while we listened, I'm trying to just be cool, you know, I'm like, ah, you know, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be all aesthetic, I was like, waving incense and shit, I swear to god. I brought the whole shebang with me. And so we listened to shit, and she was like, you know, I just don't think this is for us.

• 10:14Speaker 04

  I just don't hear anything for, this isn't really where I want to go with the label, you know. Oh, so she just kind of said, you know, bye, you know, just like, no, this is, we're not gonna do this, and I'm like, but if their album's kind of already done? She's like, yeah, I'm not gonna release it, so, you know, I'm like, but am I free, are you gonna let me go? Or, you know, she was like, well, we'll talk about that later, but for sure, we're not gonna do anything with this record, we're not gonna be releasing it. Uh, she said it like 12 times, she loved that so much.

• 10:51Speaker 00

  The remix.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  It was like, it was like, it was like Paul Mooney, like, saying, keep his teeth white, she was like, we're not gonna release your album, we're not gonna release your album, we're not gonna release your album.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, she referenced the Race album by Paul Mooney, one of my favorite albums of all time. Yo, man, wait, wait, wait, hang on, ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you

• 11:16Speaker 00

  that when the idea of me having my own podcast was introduced, this is my dream.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Like, I'm never gonna have this high again. Go be chasing the dragon from here on out. Every story, yeah, this is my crack hit.

• 11:33Speaker 06

  Yes, Sylvia ain't coming.

• 11:36Speaker 05

  I don't know if you'll get Sylvia.

• 11:37Speaker 06

  Nah, not the, not the.

• 11:40Speaker 04

  She'd be a good interview.

• 11:42Speaker 05

  I actually seen her recently.

• 11:43Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah?

• 11:44Speaker 00

  I see her all the time.

• 11:45Speaker 05

  I've seen her recently.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  She comes to, her artists still come to the Tonight Show.

• 11:48Speaker 05

  And this is what, and I said this to her, and actually, I meant this, this is the thing about Sylvia and us and them, really, because, as you said when we opened the introduction, we are kind of a, we're a different group of, kind of, individuals, groups, in the context of music industry, whatever. And the thing is, on a certain, on a, on a deep level, I think she really, really got who we were, and us, and really dug the music. However, when she had to go out into the world of those R&B promotion departments, they were like, what is this shit you, we, Ghetto Heaven, but they don't got seven of those, or it's, what's this rock shit, what, you know, so.

• 12:26Speaker 06

  Damn it, black radio.

• 12:27Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  Well, they would have to.

• 12:29Speaker 04

  Plantation radio.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  It means that they would have to use elbow grease.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Well, yes.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  And figure out. They actually have to work?

• 12:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're not, that's not it, they're not doing it.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  They don't do that at record labels.

• 12:41Speaker 05

  I mean, the thing, literally, every time, it's funny, I even want to hear these songs today, my little kids here, they hear, like, In Vogue songs, and they sound dope. Before Ghetto Heaven came out, we heard, they showed us, she says this, we know how this news, this other act is coming out the same time as you.

• 12:53Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I remember, we was up in our office.

• 12:55Speaker 05

  And she, and she played the video, and I'm like, oh, who's, who's this group? And then I heard, hold on to your love, and so the video, I'm like, I was like, uh-oh.

• 13:05Speaker 04

  Uh-oh, right, we all said, uh, we all said, uh, at the same time.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  I heard that song.

• 13:11Speaker 06

  Coming out at the same time?

• 13:12Speaker 05

  That track is dope, and they look hot.

• 13:15Speaker 06

  In them black dresses, yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, they put, it seemed like every time we put out a record, In Vogue came out two weeks before, so In Vogue came out right before.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  Don't let go?

• 13:24Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Nigga!

• 13:25Speaker 05

  Yes. It came out, just, so that came out right before Ghetto Heaven, so when Ghetto Heaven, we had a chance to go number one, it was like, ah, and, and really where, you know, it's kind of like the Faulkner Road, where careers divide, but there was a, there was a song we had out on that album called The Samurai Fall.

• 13:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  That kind of should have been a number one kind of R&B ballad hit, but it came out two weeks after something else that In Vogue had put out, it was like, and I think Sandra knew somebody at the label, and we're going through the whole story, but they, but as I remember correctly, they were like, yeah, you know, um.

• 13:59Speaker 04

  He was fine as well.

• 14:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, he would have been fine if he'd got the record to, but anyway.

• 14:07Speaker 04

  He did well in his territory.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  I know, well, you know.

• 14:09Speaker 06

  Yes, it did, Sandra.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  I'm sure it did, I mean, you know.

• 14:13Speaker 04

  North Carolina was popping off.

• 14:15Speaker 05

  I know, I know, it probably went to number four, just like the size of his personality.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  No, no, I know, though, darling, you don't know what I know.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Actually, I saw the videos, but anyway.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Uh-oh, the Real Family.

• 14:32Speaker 04

  Real Family, let me just.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Yo, did this sound clear, this is, this is going on the air, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:38Speaker 06

  It's going, it's, uh.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  I'm playing.

• 14:40Speaker 06

  It's why I need it, it's automatic.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  I don't know these guys.

• 14:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, what is your sign? Cause you deal really well with these two.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Does it really matter?

• 14:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm like.

• 14:51Speaker 04

  No, no, he's always like, okay, there they go, he just slides in the shit.

• 14:53Speaker 06

  You're like an earth thing or something.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  No, he's Pisces.

• 14:56Speaker 06

  Ah, yeah, but still.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  I love that you guys, at least now, are really putting up the appearance that you love each other.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  We do.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  We do. No, I know, you can't fake, you can't fake this chemistry, which is why I'm amazed to see this. So, for this particular situation, like, I don't believe in a true democ, I believe in the idea of a true democracy, and I've said this on many episodes before, yes, like, I like to think that the 11 of us have, say, or whatever, like, what do you think, what do you think, what do you think? You know, like, everyone from the leader to the minion, the last member of the group to get added, but how do you guys decide?

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Because the thing is, is that you, you guys are also kind of a dinosaur in terms of the fact that groups were starting to become extinct by the early 90s. But, you know, so by the time you guys come along, there's like, maybe nine black bands left on a major label, as opposed to 70, or 170, 20 years ago. So, how do you guys make decisions, how do you guys establish a song, how do you guys, like, I'm not asking, like, who's the alpha, is this 33 and a third equally, or?

• 16:24Speaker 05

  We, we trust and love each other so much on a, and seriously, on a deep level, that we each have things that we kind of say, kind of, kind of takes the lead on it, in a very organic, very organic way. I mean, the biggest, Jeff and I almost kind of like, what's it, Elton John and Bernie Tappin. We never, we never, we've never really had one major fight, except who should be the, except Greg Anthony, when he was the point guard of the Knicks.

• 16:48Speaker 04

  That was ridiculous fight, man.

• 16:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, because.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  We know he was the greatest point guard.

• 16:52Speaker 05

  See, see, Jeff was delusional about Greg Anthony.

• 16:54Speaker 00

  Except for music.

• 16:57Speaker 05

  I was, I said, Greg Anthony's a great defensive player, but he can't shoot, but anyway, but I digress.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  He eventually shot when he got to the Grizzlies.

• 17:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, I had a joke, boy, but I'm not gonna say it.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  Oh, no, let's not.

• 17:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I'm not gonna say that one, but it had to do with the rest, but anyway, um.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Dog, man.

• 17:15Speaker 05

  I got a lot of famous references, but I like Greg Anthony, he's a great guy, but, um, um, he, it was, uh.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  The jokes, the hits.

• 17:23Speaker 05

  The jokes, uh, no, but, yeah, but we respect each other's opinion, and there's like different areas that each of us kind of just like, you know.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  In, in my specific situation, I know that the, and I know that Tariq will probably say, like, no, it's 51 you and 49 me, but in my eyes, I'm like, well, I'll slave over a song all night, and, but if he can't write to it, then it's not getting on the album. And I know the true answer is, well, you guys should be in the room at the same time, no, no, no, no, but I, I kind of like working by myself, cause I had weird hours, and I want to get all my ideas out, some therapeutic things, so. Is, is collaboration just a myth, or?

• 18:06Speaker 04

  No, and I mean, I tell you what.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Is it a frustrating compromise?

• 18:09Speaker 04

  I tell, now, it's, it's harder than it was when we all, cause now he's here, I'm in the Netherlands, and he's in California.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  I forgot you moved out.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Why? You now live in the Netherlands? Now live? She's been here since 2003, right?

• 18:24Speaker 04

  2002.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  I've known you forever, I.

• 18:27Speaker 04

  I know, right, I mean, yeah, I've been there, I've been there for, I come, I come back and forth so much, though, that's why.

• 18:34Speaker 06

  That's why your shoes are so dope.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  Dumb question, dumb question, do you, of course, you like it better, I don't know, like.

• 18:42Speaker 04

  No, actually, well, yeah.

• 18:45Speaker 06

  What's expat life like?

• 18:46Speaker 04

  It's a better country for.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Better healthcare for sure.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Better healthcare, better systems.

• 18:51Speaker 06

  Is it free?

• 18:52Speaker 04

  No, it's not free, but it's, it's good, and it's reliable, and it's, you know, it's no bullshit.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  You fluent in Dutch right now?

• 18:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it kind of, even practical, so, the, the, the interview in, in Netherlands, probably, that you do most of the time.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  It take you to nail the language?

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Six months.

• 19:09Speaker 06

  No, no.

• 19:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, six months. No, because, I mean, because of classical training, you know? I learned, I learned R is in Italian, German, Russian, and French, so.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Language, languages come easily.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  I've learned that when you unlock the sixteenth gene key of your mind of the fifty of them.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  What book did you just read?

• 19:30Speaker 06

  Right?

• 19:31Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, I live the gene keys every day, so it's just that.

• 19:34Speaker 06

  Both gene keys.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  It's teaching you how to retain, how your subconscious can retain information. But your subconscious mind blocks you from, from taking it, like.

• 19:47Speaker 00

  Everyone in this room has the power to play like Rock Manonoff right now, if they wanted to.

• 19:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  But it's your, your faith in, oh, I can't learn Mandarin.

• 19:59Speaker 04

  You shut yourself down.

• 20:00Speaker 06

  I believe that.

• 20:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:01Speaker 04

  No doubt, no doubt. But I'm an American, so even with all of our terribleness and, you know, and madness and crazy, I, I miss America, so I need to be.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  What do you miss most about?

• 20:13Speaker 04

  I think the, the, uh, well, the, the small things a lot, uh, the shared, the shared, uh, history and the things that we can talk about, even like references of jokes. If I, if, if, if I say, if I, if I reference, uh, uh, oh, my shoe, everybody knows I'm talking about Auntie falling down a step. When I say it over there, they look at me like, sweetie?

• 20:40Speaker 04

  That's whack, you know what I mean? So it's like, you have to like, really, you gotta, you gotta talk like very precise and just direct or very blunt and.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  And, uh, you know, their jokes are not my jokes, and my jokes aren't their jokes, and my, my history is not their history, so. Even though you run into black people, it's not saying black people.

• 21:00Speaker 06

  I was gonna say, do you order your hair products off Amazon?

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Girl, I don't do no, none of that hair shit over there.

• 21:03Speaker 06

  I was about to say, so how you get your shit, how you read your scalp?

• 21:07Speaker 04

  Girl, please, I, I order products from over here, I come here often enough to take shit back.

• 21:11Speaker 06

  You got a lot of shea butter that you just put in the bag.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  I see sisters on the street over there, I be like, oh, girl.

• 21:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, cuz. Hair in Europe, black hair in Europe.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Oh, baby.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  There's no Africans over there doing hair, though. Never mind.

• 21:29Speaker 04

  That's, that's generally, seriously gonna be my next hustle. I'm gonna have, I'm gonna open up a hair studio or a hair, because they need it, they, it so need it. Your girls, your girls. My girls, yeah, their hair is, yeah, I get all their products and stuff.

• 21:43Speaker 06

  Oh, you have daughters?

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, they got, they got that, you know, that other kind of hair, so.

• 21:48Speaker 06

  Ow, they from the, they have Netherlinian, okay. You just need a little bit of water on your brush.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  I love the color talk.

• 21:56Speaker 06

  Put a little bit of brush, water on the brush.

• 21:58Speaker 05

  Water on brush, child.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  They got good hair, right? Little coconut, they fine, they fine, they fine, they fine. They fine, they all right, they're good, they're good, they straight, they straight.

• 22:08Speaker 06

  I'm sorry.

• 22:08Speaker 04

  They straight, they straight.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  All right, right, right now, I'm going, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we still didn't get to the point of the story.

• 22:15Speaker 04

  What was the point of the story?

• 22:16Speaker 00

  What did Jimmy Jam warn you about?

• 22:18Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, I totally, that was like forty-five minutes ago.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  We are such a, we're rabbit holes, so. We fall down rabbit holes all the time.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  No, I, he told, I remember when I first, uh, when Prince told Warner Brothers that he, he had heard my Sanctuary album, and they were like, how do you hear my Sanctuary?

• 22:36Speaker 00

  How do you hear your Sanctuary?

• 22:37Speaker 04

  Exactly, to this day, don't know how you heard it. Who, Prince or Jimmy Jam? Yeah, Prince.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  I have my ways. I was waiting for somebody to do it, yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 04

  I was like, how do you, so she was like, I don't know, but he says he listens to it every morning, and he has to work with you. I was like, what? Wow, dope. So before I actually met him, it was, I think it was an ASCAP Awards show or something, and, and Jim and Jam and Terry Lewis were there, and I was like, oh, my God, yo, guys, guess what? I'm getting ready to work with Prince, man, and they were like.

• 23:14Speaker 06

  That joke gets funnier the more, the more you think about our episode.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  It was like.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  What are you, when you come over?

• 23:22Speaker 04

  Watch, watch your back, sis, watch your back. Just watch your back. I was like, well, jeez, that sounds very bitter, why are they saying that? I didn't know, okay, but I found out, didn't I? I found out, cuz, you know, you know, everybody knows Prince is a. He was a nice guy with us when he hung out with us.

• 23:40Speaker 06

  Hanging out.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Nice. Yeah, he was cool when, he was so cool when he hung out with us. Prince, Prince, look, you know, I, shit, man, I did one interview in the BBC, and they asked me to tell the truth, and I did, and the Prince Legion came from me. Who, uh, uh, uh.

• 23:56Speaker 05

  Yo, even our all them cats on prince.org.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  Wait, who, who called me?

• 24:00Speaker 04

  Wait, who?

• 24:01Speaker 00

  John, uh, what's his name? Oh, Kirk?

• 24:03Speaker 04

  Kirk, right, that's right, right, yeah.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Did Kirk call you?

• 24:06Speaker 06

  Why you with your eyebrow up like that?

• 24:08Speaker 04

  Nah, it wasn't even Kirk, it was just the Legions of.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Oh, prince.org.

• 24:13Speaker 04

  It was insane. They came for me, I was like. The Beehive, right? Yeah, I was like, dude, seriously.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  They're the original Beehive.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  Y'all need to slow your roll, because fuck you.

• 24:22Speaker 05

  Y'all need to find another hive.

• 24:24Speaker 06

  You ain't even no in.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  Okay, fuck you. So, so, like, you know, I told the truth, you believe what you want to believe, but back the, I want mama, yeah. So, you know.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  So I'm, I'm vaguely aware, so basically, over the Soul Sanctuary song that was on Emancipation.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  Five songs off that record he took.

• 24:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, five.

• 24:43Speaker 06

  With no, with no check?

• 24:44Speaker 00

  So, wait, what else?

• 24:46Speaker 05

  There was one that ended up on Shaka's Come To My House album.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  He gave me credit on that, yeah.

• 24:51Speaker 06

  Open your legs.

• 24:52Speaker 04

  I'll never open my legs again. And then this motherfucker telling me, he's like, yeah, we gonna have to change the title on that. Cuz that's the one he gave me credit on, and he was like, well, that and Sanctuary. I said, why? He said, because, you know, a woman shouldn't be saying, I'm like. I said, right, motherfucker, he wrote head.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:09Speaker 05

  But he was a Jehovah's Witness at that point, so he was.

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, but, yeah, I was so like, I was so like.

• 25:14Speaker 06

  Sound like one of the mill.

• 25:15Speaker 04

  I'm like, I need, I need fifteen year ago Prince, this is the Prince I, I wanna work with.

• 25:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, ninety-six to two thousand four, religion, Prince, that, that.

• 25:25Speaker 04

  That, that was that period that I was messing with him, and, you know, he was all in that, that mode, and I was, I remember the very first time I met him, I came to the, the studio, I had like, you know, I was just in the, I'm out, still in my crystals, and, you know, I set my, he must've thought that was some juju, you know what I mean? That was all like against everything the Witnesses was about, you know? Wait a minute, it's the first time you met him, what you talking about? We met him in, uh? No, I mean, I mean, as far as to work with him, yeah. Oh, okay. But, I mean, I mean, he was a big Family Stand fan.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  I love, yeah, I was gonna say that I too used to laugh at all crystal carrying people.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  And now you are one.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Can't live without it, yeah, I'm sorry.

• 26:04Speaker 04

  Bada bing, bada boom, so, you know, I mean.

• 26:06Speaker 00

  I see the light now.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  Five songs.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  You know, cut gems, right?

• 26:10Speaker 00

  It's just me start using those crystals for deodorant that's hugely a problem.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  I don't do that.

• 26:14Speaker 06

  Oh, you don't use a crystal stick?

• 26:15Speaker 04

  I don't do that, I don't, I don't, I don't.

• 26:18Speaker 06

  Everybody has, it's okay, everybody has tried it.

• 26:22Speaker 04

  I, I just don't.

• 26:23Speaker 00

  Look.

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Deodorant, what's that? Because I've seen, I've smelled the results.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  You know, you know the term, as, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord?

• 26:30Speaker 06

  Yeah?

• 26:31Speaker 00

  It ain't my house no more.

• 26:32Speaker 04

  Okay, okay.

• 26:33Speaker 06

  You need to tell her to get some Toms, they made like a charcoal joint now, that's a little bit stronger.

• 26:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, we, I'm, I'm using, I'm using charcoal toothpaste, charcoal soap, crystals.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  Come on, come on, come on, man.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 26:45Speaker 05

  I went with this girl once, yeah, she used a, a pebble, I told you, to, like, for the deodorant, the pebble, yeah, I told her, she better get a rock or something.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  The pebble wasn't working?

• 26:55Speaker 06

  I'm not.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  Smell like Brooklyn, Gibraltar.

• 26:57Speaker 05

  Oh, hey, hey, hey, I'm sorry.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, Brooklynites won't let me insult them. Yeah, when she's not looking, though, I sneak and get the unscented.

• 27:06Speaker 06

  Hell, yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  There you go, bada bing, bada boom.

• 27:08Speaker 06

  It's a long day, nigga.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  No, no, come on.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Man, I'm a black and Mexican kid from San Pedro, and I grew up in Inglewood as well. I never liked to be, like, boxed in. Both of my parents colored outside of the line. I mean, even them being together at the time in L.A. was just not typical. And so I think that has always been a part of my DNA. There's a defiant something in me that feels like what we get to do with, with what we're given that's greater than us is to maybe connect people to ideas that they wouldn't naturally, you know, connect to. That's really me, I'm just kinda like defiant with love, though.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  Behind every chart topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at three in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off tempo, on purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling.

• 29:00Speaker 05

  What's yours? Behind every original. Live in Levi's. This has really been a check to interview.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Like, I was about to say, do you guys feel as though we're respecting your history? I feel like this is such-

• 29:16Speaker 05

  Oh, no, oh, yeah, no, we're-

• 29:18Speaker 04

  There is so, we got so-

• 29:19Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  No, this is the best one ever. Shut up.

• 29:22Speaker 05

  This is the best interview ever.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  If Jeff's happy, I'm happy. This is the best one ever. What'd you all say? Say it again, Jeff. This is the best one. Yes.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Now, I'm thinking about questions I didn't ask. Which is-

• 29:35Speaker 04

  We got time.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  How did, no, we'll let you go, because-

• 29:38Speaker 04

  We got time. Take your time, baby.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  Hey, Jimmy Jam times, alright.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  Take your time. We got time, we got time.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Now, we're gonna go for his record.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  How did the suggestion of Nelly and Jazzy B remixing Ghetto Heaven?

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Merlin Bob. They have to be Merlin, right? Merlin Bob. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because Merlin was spinning a lot, so he knew these guys. Yeah, he said Jazzy B, but, you know, and of course, it was Nelly Hooper who did the real work.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  Well, that's, I mean, that's always the case. Like, there's, we know someone sells the product and someone does the work.

• 30:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, Jimmy, what's, no, not Jimmy, what's that, Jelly Bean?

• 30:18Speaker 00

  I'm a Dr. Jelly.

• 30:19Speaker 04

  Jelly Bean Benitez? Jelly Bean, he had, I mean, a lot of people did stuff for him.

• 30:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you just, you're leasing the name.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  He was kinda brilliant, though.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  You're leasing the name, recognizability.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  That's all good, that's something. And the thing is, the interesting thing about that is, there's a lot of people thought we were from London. They still, I just had to correct somebody on Facebook yesterday.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  I absolutely thought you guys were from London.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was like-

• 30:40Speaker 00

  I was one of those people.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  He said, "Oh, I love British soul." I'm like, "Yeah, here's the thing." We're from Brooklyn.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  At the time, you know, looking at the album cover, we didn't look like we were from here.

• 30:50Speaker 00

  No, y'all, y'all definitely looked like you were- I thought y'all were part of, like, Young Disciples, clearly.

• 30:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, the whole thing was-

• 30:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  It wasn't, and it wasn't an on purpose thing, I just think it was just from a headspace. It literally came out in eighty-nine, at first, the end of eighty-nine, ninety, Ghetto Heaven. And it was just, not that we were conscious of it, but it was just, we were moving forward, and whatever was happening there, we just knew that.

• 31:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, because we were, we were doing some different, on, well, on the label, I mean, we made a conscious decision when we were doing the video for Ghetto Heaven, to have some dark-skinned, black women with big butts and locks.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:32Speaker 04

  That was a conscious decision.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Yes, you did.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  Because, you know, everybody's walking around with chubby curls and, I mean, we said, "No, we want specific things to, in this video, that people need to see."

• 31:45Speaker 00

  There's another thing I want to bring up. The amount of underhanded, kind of, not subversive, but sneaky snark in the lyrical content of your record.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Now you see where it's twisted.

• 32:01Speaker 04

  Which album are you talking about?

• 32:02Speaker 00

  No, all over, and the thing is, is that, did you guys ever worry about any particular blowback from-

• 32:13Speaker 04

  Never gave a shit. Oh, my God, when we did Moon and Scorpio? That was, we just did not give a fuck- We did not care. -after that, because we didn't, we weren't even letting the record company hear shit when we were doing it, because at that point, we was like, "Okay, y'all ain't promoting us anywhere, we gonna do what we want to do."

• 32:32Speaker 00

  I wanted to ask, did you guys even, like, were you testing the label, like, "Oh, we could just talk shit about whoever?"

• 32:38Speaker 04

  No, we weren't testing them, we didn't give a fuck. Nah.

• 32:41Speaker 05

  I, I just think that, um-

• 32:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:43Speaker 05

  Well, the thing is, this, I think we snuck up on them in a way, and that was, I don't even know if it was conscious, it's hard to know at this point, but, is that, it started out just to be a producer's album, but we knew we wanted to be a band.

• 32:55Speaker 04

  Right, exactly.

• 32:56Speaker 05

  And, and so there was a hint of that on Chain, but by the time, like Jeff said, we got the Moon and Scorpio, it was like, this is what it is.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  This is what it's about.

• 33:03Speaker 05

  And, and as long as, you know, as long as you really know that you're telling the truth, then people can say, "Why'd you, all they can say to you is, "Why'd you tell that truth?" You know, you know, so-

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Because it's true.

• 33:13Speaker 05

  You know, so we weren't- And Plantation Radio, like, for example, on that album, that was just, you know, we realized that, you know, you, you, your band can be dope, this person can be dope, if you're black, you're doing something alternative, you need your Christopher Columbus to discover you, or, and so you can be on, and be put on the, see, these are the, you know, so, so we just, there's a whole lot of facade to that whole thing, as you know, you've lived it, you've been doing it, so.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Right. We were talking about Sandra going solo, so I thought it would be a good time to talk about the album that you guys did without her, Connected.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  Connected.

• 33:48Speaker 05

  With Jackie. Oh, shit, I forgot about Jackie.

• 33:51Speaker 04

  Jackie McGee, yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I understand that didn't exactly work out too well.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  Uh, uh, yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  Musically, it was nice. Yeah, musically, it was, it was, it worked out well, but-

• 34:00Speaker 05

  Um, because I, so, sometimes when I see songs on YouTube, it'd be like, "Oh, they didn't even like the singer." That wasn't true, we, we loved Jackie, we actually had a, you know, a really good relationship with her. I, I think the only, the issue was, maybe, uh, her, her concept of what, uh, of the rock thing, or whatever that in her mind was at the time, maybe it wasn't, it wasn't so much as naturally internalized as it was with Sandra, but, um, so, and it was like, it was kind of put together in a way that was kind of quick, so maybe there wasn't enough time to build so much the natural rapport we had with them, but, yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  I was gonna say that, like, what I'm witnessing here is, like, some Harlem Globetrotters, look, look mano hands.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 00

  Chemistry here that you would have to actually build, did you guys know Jackie from before, or was it just-

• 34:47Speaker 05

  No, yeah, we didn't, we didn't, we were, was, you know-

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Someone say, "Hey, grab the Make It Last Forever girl," and just-

• 34:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, and she wanted, and do, and she was-

• 34:53Speaker 04

  I didn't even realize that she had done that. I mean, she kind of kept talking about it a lot. I swear to God, I didn't-

• 35:01Speaker 00

  You and D'Angelo gotta meet each other.

• 35:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I was like, I wasn't, I was like, totally oblivious to what she had done before, and I, you know.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, so-

• 35:11Speaker 00

  So, you missed her album on MCA, so.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, so, so it was just a matter, it was, it may be a musical chemistry thing.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, did I miss another, uh, classic? I'm just sorry, Skeezle was the- Mental telepathy? Skeezle was the wrong record for Jackie McGee.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Skeezle, Skeezle? Oh, my God, Skeezle. What were they thinking?

• 35:29Speaker 00

  You know what?

• 35:30Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, right, right, right.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  I, I now know, I want, all right, you know, like, it's my dream for you and Fonte to at least have, like, a minute review thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I want, this is Sandra, to, to join this, because her eye, the, the, the level of her eyes on- the shaking of the head and the eyes, okay? Okay.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  He's always gotta say, "Up."

• 35:57Speaker 00

  I see, but, all right, back to Jackie. Yeah. The Connected album.

• 36:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, so, it, it was, it was just really that, but we, we didn't have any really bad time energy or anything like that.

• 36:05Speaker 04

  Not at all.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  Not at all, so we were always cool.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Not at all.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  I mean, it was just, I would just sum it up, it's like we just said, the natural rapport, and like, what, I mean, I said, it was just like, this is like, it's like basketball, you play with certain players, it's just a natural, more fit, so it was more, it was more of that, but there was no-

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  Really thing. Because you know we would say it, we've said everything else, so at this point, so we would say, we're like, "Oh, Jackie, she was on some bullshit," no, we love Jackie, she's good.

• 36:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  I got another record I want to ask about. Goodfellas, Sugar Honey Ice Tea. Come on, I love that damn song.

• 36:38Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, wait a minute, didn't Lenny Kravitz kind of come out with a record, like, after that?

• 36:43Speaker 05

  I'm not sure if it was after, we were before, after.

• 36:45Speaker 04

  I remember, because I was saying, "Wow, that sounds like Sugar Honey Ice Tea."

• 36:49Speaker 05

  But was that first, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what it was.

• 36:53Speaker 05

  What was the record, what was the record?

• 36:55Speaker 00

  It ain't over till it's over?

• 36:57Speaker 04

  It's like, kind of the same.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, but Sugar Honey Ice Tea was a few years after that.

• 37:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, my, we, but, but-

• 37:03Speaker 04

  So, did we steal from him, or did he steal from us?

• 37:05Speaker 05

  Neither one of us.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  But then he took it from Earth when it fires, so.

• 37:08Speaker 05

  No, we both stole from Al Green, so that's what, that's, that's what that was about, really. It was, it wasn't, it was more like, uh, it was, and, because there's certain periods in, in, that, I think, I know at least-

• 37:21Speaker 04

  What year was that, that was-

• 37:23Speaker 00

  It was like ninety-six, ninety-seven, I think.

• 37:24Speaker 04

  Ninety-six, ninety-seven?

• 37:26Speaker 05

  Kind of flash, kind of flashback to, like, there's a certain period where, I'm sure this happens to, you know, to Amir, is that, you know, you lock into a certain artist, that you, you always chuck out, you checked out, like, for a certain period of time, I always grew up in the love of, like, Stevie and Hendrix, and a whole lot of different people, and The Beatles, I have to bring that up, because a lot of that stuff influences a lot of our stuff, too. But, uh, but it was, and even though I was into him in the seventies, I kind of rediscovered him, and that was Curtis Mayfield. There was a period of time where I was like, "Oh," and I just heard some- Yeah, stuff, like, you know, you know, so, uh, there was things in there, there's a song that we did on Tamea

• 38:07Speaker 05

  called Poetry, which they should have put out as a single, but, uh, a poetry that was totally coming from, uh, Curtis Mayfield kind of standpoint, like, the beginning of it is, "It's like the grass that grows between the cracks of ghetto streets, relentless and sp-

• 38:24Speaker 00

  It's another Joshua Niall record, right?

• 38:25Speaker 05

  Right, that was another Joshua Niall, that motherfucker, that hip-hop kid from Brooklyn. Yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  How old is Joshua now, now, now? He's, he's a retirement home, he's about twenty-three, he's twenty-three.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  He's twenty-three. He's born in Lepia, February twenty-ninth.

• 38:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  So, he's about, like, twenty-four.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  Wait, now, I've read several interviews or comments about you working with Curtis, and how your experience was, I read it, and it was very positive. Another fellow Dallas artist that we mentioned before, El Hadrapo.

• 39:03Speaker 04

  El Hadrapo.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  The thing was, and this is early in our, our relationship, so it's like the first year I knew her, and, man, she gave me the complete opposite of what it was like to work with Curtis.

• 39:22Speaker 04

  Okay, when did she, when did she actually work with him?

• 39:25Speaker 00

  She did, Curtis produced a song for her on Eve's Bayou soundtrack.

• 39:29Speaker 04

  What year was that? Yeah, I know that, I know that soundtrack.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Nineteen ninety-seven, I think this is like, this might be the last-

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Nine months of his life is shortly before New World Order is quasi-apostemum.

• 39:44Speaker 04

  Well, that's the last album he recorded.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  Shut up, Steve. Why you judging me?

• 39:48Speaker 04

  I'm just here to monitor shit for white people and report back to them.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  I said I was gonna chop up the word possum.

• 39:57Speaker 06

  That's a hard word, though.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  Posthumous. He's the guy that, he's the guy that, once a president gets into office, he's the one that writes that binding, puts it on the... When the president walks into the office, they say, "Okay, this is how shit's really gonna go."

• 40:17Speaker 04

  "You had your policies, but this is how shit really gonna go."

• 40:20Speaker 00

  That is Steve. You nailed him.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Oh, good, good, good. Well, now we know, now we know.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Anyway, yeah, but I was like, you know, I was like, "Yo, you work for Curtis Mayfield. What was that like? What was it like? What was it like?" And he was like, "He made me cry, Amir." And take after take after take after take, and just beat down our confidence and, you know.

• 40:45Speaker 04

  He wasn't a fan, so...

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, so, what was it like working with him? Was it hard working?

• 40:51Speaker 04

  Not at all.

• 40:52Speaker 00

  Was he a taskmaster?

• 40:53Speaker 04

  No.

• 40:54Speaker 06

  Read through the lines. She is saying it.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  No, dude was like, dude, I mean... Hey, we did, we worked with artists like that all the time. No, I mean, but Curtis, Curtis, he, the thing was, this was the duet, it's a duet on New World Order, right? And called I Believe In You. They, they basically, this is, they wanted him to have a duet with somebody from old school and then somebody from new school. So the old school, he had like Mavis and Aretha. He did duets with them on the record, features with them on the record. And so they gave him three choices for the new school. So Curtis chose me out of Erica and Angie. The dude, I mean, I literally did like two takes, you know?

• 41:40Speaker 04

  It was over. He was like, done. And then he was like, and after that, you know, we were, we were close up until almost, you know, the time he couldn't talk anymore, you know? He would call me, I would call him, he would support me, he would like bill me up, he would, you know, and I was, he would, he would, he was like the sweetest motherf- I mean, this guy...

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Curtis didn't believe in bodyism.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  You know, he, he, he just wasn't a fan because the dude was real, man. He was so beautiful. He was a beautiful cat, man. So, I don't know what she talking about.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  No, no, I'm glad you restored my favor in him because just...

• 42:15Speaker 04

  He was a beautiful dude. I don't know what she was going through, but... Who's that? He said Erica was saying, you know, Curtis wasn't, yeah, but he didn't give me no shade whatsoever.

• 42:27Speaker 06

  Jeff just got here.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Whatsoever.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  I love, I never want this night to end, man.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Okay, let me tell you a story.

• 42:34Speaker 06

  Okay, please, please, please, come on.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  And then I'll tell you the Rick James story. No, wait.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  We went for Rick James and Prince.

• 42:42Speaker 06

  I'm ready.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  Give me a Rick James. Yeah, give me, just give me a random story.

• 42:46Speaker 04

  Rick James.

• 42:47Speaker 06

  Oh, no, we just said you did it.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  It's popcorn time with Chris.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  Alphabetical order.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  Bitch got stories. I got stories, yo. I started writing a book and I was like, "I can't write this book."

• 43:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  I've been spilling too much tea, man. I can't spill it this much. Yeah, don't drink no wine. I can't write, just drink wine and it's over. Everybody's tea's getting spilled.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  Damn, this should be the Christmas episode.

• 43:12Speaker 06

  Do y'all drink?

• 43:13Speaker 04

  What?

• 43:13Speaker 06

  Oh, we should invite y'all back for our holiday episode. We get fucked up and then we just jazz. And then you live in the Netherlands, so I assume...

• 43:21Speaker 04

  Sandra drinks for us.

• 43:22Speaker 06

  That was what I was asking. I was saying, y'all from the Netherlands, so I assume that we can do what we do here.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Oh, honey, honey, honey.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  She goes to coffee shops.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  You, you must have, you have to do what you do.

• 43:31Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  See?

• 43:32Speaker 06

  I know the greenhouse and the couple cafes.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  Come on, the bulldog and all this shit. I'm scared.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  She been to the damn Queen?

• 43:41Speaker 04

  I'm just into CBD oils now.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  That's all, that's all. Just oils for my muscles. They're just for my muscles nowadays.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Now I wish Fonzie was here because he would...

• 43:51Speaker 04

  What was I talking about?

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Rick James.

• 43:53Speaker 04

  No, this is a very early career story. Very early. This is before the solo career. This is when I was singing back when I was Shaka for years.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  Oh, I got Shaka's cat?

• 44:00Speaker 06

  No, no, we don't do that.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  No, that's my boo boo. Don't fuck with you. That's, that's my boo boo. I love Shaka. When I was, you know, I used to live with Shaka, you know?

• 44:08Speaker 00

  In Germany?

• 44:09Speaker 04

  No, no, no, in, in New York, uptown, Upper West Side. So we sang our time and, you know, do what we do. And we went to Buffalo to hang out with Rick.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  We? You and Shaka?

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Me and Shaka.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. I don't think I like where this story going.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  Does Rod Jeremy come in this story?

• 44:35Speaker 04

  Am I gonna need a lawyer for this?

• 44:40Speaker 00

  Like, ladies and gentlemen, do you know the visual of Eddie? Do you know the visual of Eddie Murphy and Boomerang, holding the sheet over his like...

• 44:52Speaker 04

  Is that you?

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  Okay, well, you can always edit.

• 44:56Speaker 06

  I know that's right. So what Rick do? Go ahead. You had went to Rick's house and it would have happened, son.

• 45:00Speaker 04

  So we had went to Rick's house? And we was like, "Hi, all right."

• 45:04Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  They need some music.

• 45:05Speaker 04

  And then what? So, so, so Rick, Rick had like a bevy of babes, like, you know, scantily clad all over the house.

• 45:11Speaker 06

  Just standing there?

• 45:12Speaker 04

  And, you know, and it was just really all of...

• 45:13Speaker 00

  In Buffalo?

• 45:14Speaker 04

  In Buffalo. I mean, it was just, "Who are, who are these bitches?" I was young too. "Who are these bitches?" Because it was like, "What are they doing here?" I was like 19. I mean, it was ridiculous. And I was just in this house and, you know, Shaka was just taking me around everywhere, you know, I was a girl, right? So, and, and so I guess Rick was sick of all the other, all the girls trying to get hits from him. So he took me and Shaka in the bathroom, right? So we were in Rick's bedroom in the bathroom.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Here we go.

• 45:49Speaker 06

  I'm ready. I'm prepared.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Okay, so...

• 45:51Speaker 00

  So this is like Street Songs Throwin' Down era Rick?

• 45:54Speaker 04

  Oh shit, what year is this? 19...

• 45:56Speaker 00

  All right, so she did that song, Shaka did that song with Rick in 82, Slow Dancing, 83.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  That's, yes, thank you. That's the year it was. 83, it was 82.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  Did she go up there to lease work on Slow Dancing?

• 46:07Speaker 04

  No, sir.

• 46:09Speaker 00

  His studio was up there?

• 46:11Speaker 04

  No, no. We went up there because it was free drugs, so...

• 46:13Speaker 06

  Listen, listen to what she's saying.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  Buffalo's far.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  Pass the joint. You know how much free drugs he had?

• 46:21Speaker 00

  He was Rick James, damn it. Rick James, bitch.

• 46:24Speaker 04

  You know how much free drugs he had, sons? Free drugs, plenty.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  I saw a tale from a tour bus and saw where the cops were bringing stuff over.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  Come on.

• 46:32Speaker 06

  Y'all know Unsun gonna come knocking after this. They think on me like...

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Don't get me started on Sun, okay?

• 46:41Speaker 04

  Yvette gonna be like, "Bitch, what was you saying?" I said, "Come on, I just told one story." So I might call her after this.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  Shaka's been on the show.

• 46:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, Shaka's been here. She's been here.

• 46:50Speaker 04

  So shit, she might hear about it. I'll, I'll call her like, be like, "Listen, I told her the Rick James story." I'll just give her a heads up. Bitch, what's wrong with you? Why you telling Rick James story? So, so, so, so Rick brought us in the bathroom and in his bedroom's bathroom, you know, it was beautiful. Big mirror, going, running around.

• 47:08Speaker 00

  It was black lacquer.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  Actually, it was. It was black like marble and white tiles. So he had all this, he had all the stuff laid out on the like counter between the sinks and it was like, you know, and I was in the middle, it was right here, and Rick's there. And they were like, you know, preparing all the little things and, you know, and they were passing back and forth.

• 47:29Speaker 06

  Y'all don't need to see her hands right now.

• 47:30Speaker 04

  Y'all didn't see what's going on. I'm, I'm just, I'm visualizing what was going on. And so, so as they're passing, you know, the thing we doing, so I said, so Rick, Rick keeps like, Rick, he keeps like getting closer and closer, like from his mouth to, you know, my mouth. He just keeps getting closer.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  And so I'm like, you know, I'll take the hit, all right, fine. But then it was like, so, and then I, but I'm looking in the mirror and I'm seeing Yvette like, you know, her eyes getting like narrow.

• 48:09Speaker 04

  So, and I'm like, oh, this is getting awkward, right? So to one point, she just basically says, "You know what? This my bitch."

• 48:21Speaker 06

  I thought, wait, hold on, because I was like, wait, hold on, I need to, hold on.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  Because I was thinking that, oh, but you, she meant, oh, and then get to that, you know what?

• 48:34Speaker 04

  He's like, "This my bitch." He's like, "When she in my house, she my bitch." I was like, "Whoa, wait a minute."

• 48:43Speaker 04

  First of all, I ain't nobody's bitch.

• 48:45Speaker 06

  And the... Who we calling Amir because that word?

• 48:48Speaker 04

  And then the fight, then the fight broke down.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Jimmy?

• 48:53Speaker 06

  Please tell Jimmy.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  Jimmy?

• 48:56Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, dog. You not even in the top 10 anymore.

• 49:03Speaker 06

  And he ain't never coming home.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, Jimmy. I love you, man. You, you'd be my top 25. Top 25.

• 49:14Speaker 00

  Like, she, Sandra just took your, your, your number one solo spot right now.

• 49:18Speaker 04

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Uh, okay.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  Okay, just letting you know.

• 49:21Speaker 04

  I'm still the number, I'm still the number one male.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  We got a song about that too.

• 49:29Speaker 04

  On our next album.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  I gotta go, bye.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  We got a song about that on our next album too.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Can I join the family stand?

• 49:43Speaker 04

  Sure, absolutely.

• 49:44Speaker 06

  And I thought Johnny Gill gave it up. God damn.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Jesus Christ. Started on Johnny Gill.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  We can't burn, like, look.

• 49:55Speaker 00

  We are real, Steve, save us, save us.

• 49:59Speaker 05

  Monitor shit for white people.

• 50:00Speaker 04

  No, we're a court fight to them. That's it. That's your job, right?

• 50:06Speaker 00

  That's it, Steve?

• 50:08Speaker 04

  Thanks, Steve.

• 50:10Speaker 06

  Brilliant.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Literally, that's all the use. Okay. Okay, well, let's bring some white people into the story.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Oh, white people, we like white people.

• 50:16Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  Darryl Hall.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  Boom, boom, there you go.

• 50:20Speaker 05

  Darryl Hall?

• 50:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 05

  Darryl Hall is great. I mean, you know, to... This is gonna be a boring story, because it's a nice story. Thank you.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  We just gotta balance it.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, we gotta have some balance. No, I mean, to, you know, to grow up and hear somebody, you know, used to hear, you know, when you were in high school and stuff, then work with him. I mean, he was, you realize, you know, he was just an excellent, great songwriter, special voice. You know, the thing about singing, you know, it's... The main thing that makes any artist or singer great is just their tone, his special tone. There might be people who can sing around this person or that person, but they have that special quality. Yeah, yeah. And he had a very special quality to his voice, like, that's Darryl Hall, just a great song. It was really kind of boring and nice. No cocaine bed, Three Sims or, you know.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  No, that was like a clean shower.

• 51:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, animals.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  I loved "I'm in a Philly Mood."

• 51:05Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, good song.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  In fact, that's like, it's one of the songs that randomly pops in my head, just like, you know, I might be just walking down the street and I'll just hear, "Oh," you know, in my head, like that.

• 51:14Speaker 05

  I'm a Philadelphian, they played that a lot.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  Dope.

• 51:17Speaker 05

  They, they, that replaced the, uh, Philadelphia get to know us, uh...

• 51:22Speaker 06

  Double, oh, I was about to say the double dutch, but don't get me...

• 51:26Speaker 05

  No, the Paddle of the Bells theme, like, they, Philly Mood, like, was like our...

• 51:31Speaker 04

  Good, good.

• 51:31Speaker 05

  They, they tried to make that the, uh...

• 51:33Speaker 04

  The anthem of Philly?

• 51:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  There is a question I have. All right, because, uh, of course, I cheated and, well, I, I know about the, um, the song that, uh, you did for, uh, Ronnie Drayton's, uh, son? For Donovan Drayton.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, story, yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  Uh, and being as though Ronnie just recently passed away, do you have any, like... I know that when he passed away, like, a lot of the music, New York music community, like, felt that deep in their souls, like, did you guys work with him at all or, like, have any relationship with 24/7 Spies or any of those?

• 52:19Speaker 05

  No, he was on, he was our guitar player.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  That I didn't know.

• 52:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, he, he played on... He did the whole Monocarpio record. Yeah, he, he did the solo on "Education of Jamie."

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's him. So he, he...

• 52:31Speaker 05

  Well, just, I'm gonna describe what, because the thing, I've heard so many in passing, I met, he's come to the show a few times to visit, whatever, and it's always like, "Hey, what's up? How you doing?" But I never really got to know him as a person or that sort of thing, and I know that was a hurt piece for New York City. He was in our band, uh, 'cause I knew Ronnie Drayton from, um, back in the day when, you know, Mick Murphy and our friend Lala, you know Lala? Uh, the Far as Coke? She was a, she was a writer, she... Lala that worked with Full Force as well, right? No, no, no, not that.

• 53:08Speaker 04

  She played, she wrote "You Good."

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, she wrote "You Good."

• 53:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, that Lala.

• 53:11Speaker 05

  Yeah. She worked with Full Force as well. Yeah, we all, we all came up together, so, uh, me and Ronnie, we knew each other from, from back then, Mike Murphy with the System, we all... Mike Murphy got me my first electric guitar, you know? Yeah, he got me the one, the white one that I took on our first tour.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Uh, let me see.

• 53:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got that from Mike Murphy.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  Wait, can I ask a question?

• 53:34Speaker 00

  All right, have you, have you worked with the System at all, Mike Murphy?

• 53:38Speaker 05

  A, a little bit. Yeah, I, I...

• 53:42Speaker 00

  I know I'm gonna get a no, but I have to ask this question. That's not your saxophone on Soul Glue, is it?

• 53:49Speaker 05

  On, on what? On "Coming to America."

• 53:51Speaker 00

  "Coming to America" Soul Glue?

• 53:52Speaker 05

  No, no, no.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 53:53Speaker 05

  I don't think so.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  No, 'cause that's the System.

• 53:56Speaker 05

  You know something, I did so many sax solos, you know, I look at...

• 53:59Speaker 00

  Yes, that's, no, no, Soul Glue is...

• 54:01Speaker 05

  I don't even remember. It might be, I don't know.

• 54:05Speaker 00

  Uh, Mike Murph, uh, not David.

• 54:07Speaker 05

  He's singing?

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Yes, that's him singing, so...

• 54:11Speaker 06

  Those are some good publishing checks for you not to know that, that's...

• 54:13Speaker 05

  You know, I just, there's one quick thing about Mike Murphy. Mike Murphy is, uh, I just wanted to say this, and we worked a little bit, but he's one of the, some, one of the two most underrated singers to me. Mike Murphy sings his ass off, and, you know, he's a friend, you know, but, but he's so dope, I mean, he's, I mean, he's his singer, he's, he's just a great, great singer. Bernard Fowler, too. They all came up, all them guys, you know, in, in the same crew, 'cause they, they're part of that, that whole Jamaica funk.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  Speaking of Ronnie Drayton, Bernard sang at the funeral.

• 54:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, Bernard Fowler, you know Bernard Fowler?

• 54:45Speaker 04

  I sang at the funeral and...

• 54:46Speaker 05

  You know Bernard Fowler? He sings background with the Rolling Stones.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, okay.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, he sang at Ronnie's service, as did I, and Jeff played and...

• 54:55Speaker 00

  Matter of fact, uh, what's her name just passed too, uh...

• 54:57Speaker 04

  Tony.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  Tony, Tony Smith.

• 54:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, two funerals, day after, went to one funeral, one the next, next, it was like Jamaica, Queens.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  Well, besides singing in funk for Jamaica, like, what else did she...

• 55:10Speaker 04

  Um, she, she did a solo record that, you know, didn't do that great, 'cause it, you know, people, you know, if you heard "Funk for Jamaica," and the next one she did with Tom...

• 55:19Speaker 00

  I really thought that was Shaka. It was eight years, I was eight years old when it came out.

• 55:22Speaker 04

  Everybody did.

• 55:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, we did.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:23Speaker 04

  Shaka was like, "Is that me?"

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Is that me?

• 55:25Speaker 04

  I mean, seriously, she was like, 'cause she forgot she did, so she was like...

• 55:30Speaker 00

  Wait, my funniest Shaka story was when she was on the show, and I was trying to, uh, ask her about Penny Ford, uh, singing her ad-libs and "Snaps the Power," and she tells me the story that it was Shaka that was actually supposed to sing.

• 55:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, so they...

• 55:48Speaker 00

  "The Power," and she was just like...

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Let me try to do...

• 55:51Speaker 00

  "I can't today, girl, take, take my gig from me."

• 55:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:54Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 55:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's word, that's word.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  That's, uh...

• 55:57Speaker 06

  She taught us about her squad, 'cause Vesta wasn't there, you, it was like a few people that was in her squad, just in case she didn't feel like doing some records.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Yo, can I tell you, do you, do you know the true story behind, since you already brought up her name, do you know the true story behind "Congratulations"?

• 56:11Speaker 05

  That's Vesta Williams, right?

• 56:13Speaker 06

  What do you mean?

• 56:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, Vesta Williams.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  Do you know the story behind it?

• 56:15Speaker 06

  I don't know what you, what do you mean?

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Do you know that song's dedicated to?

• 56:18Speaker 06

  Who?

• 56:18Speaker 05

  Allegedly.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  Nah.

• 56:20Speaker 06

  Wait, give it, ooh, give it.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, Tom, didn't they verify it when they came on the show?

• 56:25Speaker 06

  Oh, I feel like we had this conversation, we've had too many conversations on this show.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  Didn't they verify it?

• 56:29Speaker 05

  I don't remember.

• 56:31Speaker 06

  Wait, who is, if you say it, I know, who, I could do it, who is it?

• 56:35Speaker 00

  You ready?

• 56:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  Bruce Willis. Bruce Willis?

• 56:39Speaker 06

  No, we never talked about that.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  Why?

• 56:41Speaker 06

  No, no, no, no, no, no.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  So, check it, he got married to Demi Moore, and she was like, "Congratulations."

• 56:47Speaker 04

  They were congratulating, she was congrat...

• 56:49Speaker 06

  No, but it's see the other woman, so...

• 56:51Speaker 00

  So, here's the...

• 56:52Speaker 05

  Wait, Bruce Willis?

• 56:53Speaker 06

  You see what I'm saying?

• 56:53Speaker 00

  Here's the situation.

• 56:54Speaker 06

  Come on. I hope she make you happy.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Listen, listen, I'm gonna make it make sense, I'm gonna make it make sense in two minutes, I'm gonna make it make sense.

• 57:00Speaker 06

  All right, all right, all right, I dare you.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  Okay, now, here's the deal. Uh, Don Johnson and Bruce Willis, rolling tight in Hollywood, and they had a specific preference of the type of women that they liked to get with, of the darker hue. Now, if you remember in, in that, uh, "The Return of Bruno" was, was the name of the, of his first album?

• 57:24Speaker 05

  His Motown record, yeah.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, his, his Mo, he's on Motown. Uh, and the first single, the first single was, uh, a duet, "Respect Yourself" with the, with the Pointer Sisters. If you remember him and June, uh, singing duet together. Now, Anita, well, not Anita, uh, Bonnie kind of revealed this on the Pointer Sisters episode.

• 57:47Speaker 05

  Oh, that's right.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  That, that, uh, the reason how that duet came to be is because they was messing with each other, and...

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Like, Vesta was rolling tight with the Pointer Sisters, kind of as their background singer slash friend or whatever, and so, kind of, it's like a double date situation, like, Don Johnson, Bruce Willis, and, and Vesta got with Bruce. I think Vesta was Bruce's first messing with...

• 58:18Speaker 05

  Bruce?

• 58:19Speaker 00

  This is the most gossiping we've ever done and won this show, at the same damn time.

• 58:23Speaker 04

  No, that George Johnson interview is pretty gossiping.

• 58:26Speaker 06

  Ooh, you be lis, you better listen, son, ooh, she better listen, in your face!

• 58:31Speaker 05

  That's one of my favorite episodes, too.

• 58:33Speaker 06

  Listen.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  And so, long story short, like, you know, they, they had a thing going, uh, maybe he was on the low or whatever.

• 58:44Speaker 06

  Right?

• 58:44Speaker 00

  He was on the low, and then, you know, then he...

• 58:47Speaker 05

  Who, Vesta?

• 58:49Speaker 00

  Vesta and Bruce Willis, and, yeah, it's, it's...

• 58:52Speaker 06

  I hope she make you happy, 'cause you need to, I'm trying to sacrifice and, oh!

• 58:57Speaker 00

  It's kind of well-known in circles that "Congratulations," the song is about Bruce Willis.

• 59:02Speaker 06

  I want to have Demi know that. Mm, she can't sing.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  Who, Demi know?

• 59:06Speaker 00

  I doubt Demi even care, at this point.

• 59:08Speaker 05

  But who?

• 59:10Speaker 00

  She's like, "I was married to who? I don't know."

• 59:12Speaker 05

  Oh, right, right, right, I remember her. Who's that guy?

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, wait, did I just kill the show?

• 59:17Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no.

• 59:19Speaker 06

  That was an interesting rabbit hole, but somebody wanted to know, and I...

• 59:22Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, well, wait, I, you've mentioned Vesta's name, and I had to get that out. I felt like I had to add something to the teapot.

• 59:29Speaker 06

  You ain't topping Sandra, but that was a nice try.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  I was, I was taking a not given, so...

• 59:39Speaker 00

  Hey, it's Nile Rodgers, host of "Before the Moment," a link...

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by breakout singer songwriter Alex Warren.

• 59:59Speaker 05

  To this day, Ordinary would not have done anything and I would have not been able to put it out if, if Book Talk didn't back it up and if my wife and her friend didn't back it up.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 1:00:08Speaker 05

  Pretty crazy how like, just one thing.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:00:11Speaker 05

  I mean, you, I bet you, we could point to nine different things in our careers where it's just one thing all of a sudden. If that one thing didn't happen, then I wouldn't be here.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  What you're talking about right now is what I've been talking about since the beginning of my career. There's these things outside of you that make everything happen. These other forces somehow came into contact with each other and helped propel you to this place.

• 1:00:35Speaker 05

  It's just insane.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Experience before the moment. A Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Behind every chart topping hit, you know by heart, there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom, somebody with headphones on at three in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours?

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  Behind every original, live in Levi's.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  You know, Kent Nix, right?

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, did the Tana Gardner.

• 1:01:41Speaker 04

  Tana Gardner, I played on all that stuff, because they, those guys were my boys, so, you know.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 00

  Where was that studio recorded at?

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  Oh my God, where was that studio? I can't even remember, because we did Funky Sensation there, which is to me is one of the funkiest songs ever.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  You're on Funky Sensation?

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, all that stuff.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  What are you playing on that?

• 1:02:03Speaker 04

  Playing horn.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:04Speaker 04

  I'm playing horn. I actually did a solo on there that they didn't use, but I played horn in the horn section because me, Raymond Reed, Tyrone Cox, and my cousin, L.A. Blacksmith, we were part of the horn section. And we used to do horn, you know, horns for them all the time.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Who's the rhythm section of it?

• 1:02:23Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  And this is the same people that did Heartbeat as well, or at least No Frills and?

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  He was using a bunch of different people at the time. I can't remember exactly the, the, the whole rhythm section, but I played guitar on some of that stuff too. Because you know, they were using, they were kind of utilizing me to play a lot of instruments. Because you can. Yeah, my friend, Burt Reed and Raymond Reed, who were in Crown Heights Affair.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:02:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, those are my guys, you know, and I was, I just remember going in the studio with them. I was playing drums, guitar, bass, keyboard.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  We're doing a cover of Far Out, by the way, on our next album.

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  Far Out is one of my favorite songs of all time. Yeah, I remember that video you posted on Instagram like five years ago of the little clip, and then we haven't heard a bit of it since. Amen, because the hits keep on coming, because it's been taken forever for y'all to finish that damn album. No, it's just, you know, better songs keep coming.

• 1:03:22Speaker 06

  That's a good answer, Amir. The hits keep on coming.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  Here's another tidbit, did you know Ajax, the trumpet player that played in Crown Heights?

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  I don't know of him.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  Well, you know, he was the trumpet player, he's the one that actually got me, introduced me to Keith Diamond, and got me on the Billy Ocean record, because we came up together and Billy was hanging with him. And he said, he needed, he was looking for a sax player to play on his new Billy Ocean record. He was like, working for Jive Records and Ajax said, oh, I know this guy I play with and we grew up together, Jeff, he's bad dude. And that's how I got that gig.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Just real quick, since you mentioned Billy Ocean, have you ever run into Danny DeVito?

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  Oh, the video. I asked because, because Jeff also played the solo on Billy Ocean's When the Going Gets Tough.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  And in the video. Danny DeVito does the sax solo.

• 1:04:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I did the sax solo on, all the songs that was a hit, that I did the sax solo on all of those. When the Going Gets Tough, what was the other one?

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  Get Out of My Dreams.

• 1:04:31Speaker 04

  Which Pete loved, was Pete's favorite.

• 1:04:33Speaker 06

  Get in the backseat, baby.

• 1:04:34Speaker 00

  It was?

• 1:04:36Speaker 04

  I know Pete hated that song.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Who, me?

• 1:04:38Speaker 04

  Yes, that's the stupidest song.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  Who, me? That's you.

• 1:04:43Speaker 06

  Hey, you.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that was, you know, in retrospect, but it hit, so.

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  It was a hit. I mean, let's talk about some more songs that you've been on that people know and probably didn't know that you were there. Like Debbie Gibson's Only In My Dream.

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, played.

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  And Foolish Beat.

• 1:04:58Speaker 06

  That's real.

• 1:04:58Speaker 04

  Foolish Beat went to number one too.

• 1:05:00Speaker 00

  Did I already do this confession, that I wish that I was Debbie Gibson's drummer?

• 1:05:04Speaker 06

  What?

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:05:05Speaker 06

  Her drummer?

• 1:05:05Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, yo, Sandra just hit me with the, I will disown you.

• 1:05:12Speaker 06

  You ain't like that song, that was the jam.

• 1:05:14Speaker 00

  She was asleep for the last 25 minutes, she woke up, like, what did you say?

• 1:05:20Speaker 06

  Act like he said Tiffany.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  Look, I was 14 at the time, and she was 15 at the time, I was like, oh, someone my age making music. And she was producing her own stuff allegedly. Yeah, shout out to Debbie Gibson.

• 1:05:32Speaker 04

  Did you know Arthur Baker?

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Yes, I did.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  That's how I met, because let me call it my guys too, Vernon Reed. Vernon used to come to my house every day to do demos, because he lived down the street from me.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  On the face, you guys did Corey's solo record on the face too.

• 1:05:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, yeah, we produced Corey's record.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  So you honorary BlackRock?

• 1:05:55Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah. We are BlackRock Coalition people.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  Okay, can you explain to me what, I knew the myth of it, I saw the logo everywhere. Like, was it meetings every Tuesday? Was it donuts and ice cream?

• 1:06:09Speaker 04

  We never went to any, we never went to the meetings.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  I met many musicians and affiliates, like, yeah, I'm a BRC member and.

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's like this.

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

  I went to a few of the early meetings, but.

• 1:06:20Speaker 04

  It's like Greg, that was Greg Tate, Vernon Reed. And Condamason, they started it, they started it. But, you know, I mean, the whole, because BlackRock is such a small microcosm of, you know. Yeah, so all these bands, we work and support each other, you know, and back certainly in the 90s when it was really thick, right? You know, it was like.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  When you say support each other, that, that to me sounds like a nightmare of a guest list.

• 1:06:47Speaker 04

  Yo, yo, you just got 50, 60 people on a guest list.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  I know, like, and club owners weren't having that in New York.

• 1:06:53Speaker 04

  So we try, we tell people now, it's no guest list, don't even think about it.

• 1:06:56Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  So, it's like, you know, because otherwise, everybody, you know, everybody's family. So you can't have, you know, all your extended family at, you know, filling up the, being the bodies in the, in the paying seats. Yeah, we trying to sell out.

• 1:07:12Speaker 00

  So was it just an idea of myth that, or folklore that 14 year old me ran away with, like, one day I'm gonna get in the BRC?

• 1:07:20Speaker 04

  No, because, I mean, well, it's basically you're just sending an email and saying, and sending your music and saying, and if it was actually BlackRock, you could have just been an official, official paying, you know, dues member.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  Oh, you had to pay dues to get inside it?

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  Right, but then, but then, but then.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  Or for nanny?

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  We just kind of got in it, but, but the, like, you, you did then benefit from being abused at BlackRock Coalition logo and get the BlackRock Coalition support behind your gigs and it was a thing, it was a, it's definitely, and it still is a real thing. BlackRock Coalition is producing our, you know, shows that we're doing, you know, coming up. So, I mean, it is a very real thing.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  There's still a thing today.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  Oh, no doubt. Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  I gotta admit, like, when I first heard of it and it was like, oh, you gotta send your dues in and all that stuff, I thought it was like the Ovaltine orphan Annie. The Coda Ring thing.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  Yo, the thing, the, they produced some cool shit, I mean, this did, this, we were a part of, it was called The History of Our Future, and it was at the Met. At the Met in September. It was crazy, it was packed, you know what I mean, it's like, so.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  An hour version of?

• 1:08:33Speaker 04

  It was like a couple hours from like, you know, from.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Was Maggie Brin covered?

• 1:08:38Speaker 04

  They didn't even get to that, no, it was, it was, I don't know how he was gonna try to do all this in 100, and, and, and what was it supposed to be, an hour and 40 minutes? Shit, we almost didn't get to play. Yo, Toshi Masher, we got to play, but, but. She was our hero that night. Like Ma Rainey, well, actually it started with, with a drum circle and then like, like slaves, early slaves, I mean.

• 1:09:02Speaker 06

  How long the show was that?

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  Y'all went through the history of music from?

• 1:09:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. From Africa.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  From Ma Rainey to, to trap music?

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  We didn't, we didn't quite make it to trap, but did quite, actually stopped at Family Stand and Living Color. That was the end of the show, and that's the future. That was the future.

• 1:09:21Speaker 00

  Is Corey still climbing the walls? We did a show with him once and he climbed the scaffold of like.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  He's duck, duck when you're on stage with him. He's awesome, yeah. Duck when you're on stage with him. I don't know if he's still climbing scaffolding, okay, but.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  He's saying he's doing it on our next album with Tandra.

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  When can we expect that next album?

• 1:09:42Speaker 04

  It'll be out by the summer, I'm pretty sure, well, let me not say that, let me say end of this year.

• 1:09:47Speaker 00

  You'll sound like The Roots.

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I'll see, 20 years later, it might be.

• 1:09:52Speaker 00

  Chinese Democracy Part Two.

• 1:09:53Speaker 04

  Part Two.

• 1:09:55Speaker 00

  No, you mean the follow up to Voodoo, Part Two.

• 1:09:58Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  I got a strange phone call the other night. The follow up to Voodoo, Part Two.

• 1:10:03Speaker 06

  Don't do that, don't even, don't even start that kind of conversation.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  Do another Voodoo album?

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  Why, because someone's listening to this podcast? It's just gonna take, you know, for another 40 years.

• 1:10:10Speaker 04

  Do another Voodoo album?

• 1:10:11Speaker 06

  Don't get us excited, don't get people excited.

• 1:10:17Speaker 00

  I don't want this night to ever end.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I hate for this to end.

• 1:10:22Speaker 00

  Just get.

• 1:10:23Speaker 04

  I didn't even, we didn't even really scratch the surface. We didn't even dip the tip. We didn't even.

• 1:10:28Speaker 06

  Wait, wait, what you talking about over there?

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  Yes, alright. We'll just go one at a time and then we gotta wrap this episode up. Or this is officially a double episode.

• 1:10:42Speaker 06

  You're evil.

• 1:10:43Speaker 04

  You have a specific question?

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  Well, I was gonna say Peter. Any last words?

• 1:10:50Speaker 05

  For this episode, not.

• 1:10:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, not for my life.

• 1:10:53Speaker 05

  This has been a really pleasure and joy to sit down and, you know, talk with you guys and it's, and we are doing a new album. And it started out, it started out with this, that gig to BRC last September at the Met. But, and ended up like, oh, well, maybe we should do a couple of songs and maybe we'll just do an EP. And now it's turned into Songs in the Key of Life times four. And now it's Songs in the Key of the Afterlife.

• 1:11:19Speaker 05

  So, but we're working on it now and it's, it's just cool and special stuff. But, but it really was out of more of an act of love than necessarily, you know, we're putting the band back together and we're gonna get our wheelchairs out and we're gonna be, show these young boys how to be funky, you know, so.

• 1:11:34Speaker 00

  I see no wheelchairs or tennis ball walkers.

• 1:11:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, yeah, exactly.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  I've seen none of that in your future.

• 1:11:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:40Speaker 00

  You guys seem just as healthier than me right now.

• 1:11:43Speaker 06

  And you fly as fuck. I said that when I walked in, I was like, y'all going to where? A shoot, a photo shoot or something?

• 1:11:48Speaker 00

  We seen y'all, that's good enough.

• 1:11:49Speaker 06

  The hat, I mean, everybody got something going on that's special. I just wanted to say that.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Thank you. V. Jefferson.

• 1:11:54Speaker 04

  Like Pete said, we really appreciate the love and this is our first interview since we kinda got back and as far as I'm concerned, it's the best interview as far as I can remember that we, we've, we've done. And I just love it. I'm just having, I had a ball tonight. I don't want it, I don't really want it to end, but you know.

• 1:12:22Speaker 00

  Me neither.

• 1:12:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:23Speaker 06

  We ain't got no liquor though.

• 1:12:24Speaker 00

  No, I'm getting a.

• 1:12:25Speaker 04

  I don't drink.

• 1:12:25Speaker 06

  We gotta go.

• 1:12:27Speaker 04

  Oh, it was nice being here.

• 1:12:30Speaker 00

  So, I'm just saying.

• 1:12:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, we really appreciate this. I mean, listen, I mean, they kinda covered territory. He talked about the album.

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:12:38Speaker 04

  And he talked about the vibe and what we're doing and where we come from. And it's, it's been a blast mixing it up with y'all. Y'all are a regular riot, man. So, it's like, you know, to be able to usually get folks to just ask you just questions about, so what does God have, what does God have me, what does that mean? And then, and, and that's pretty much the crux of the interview. This is like just a deep dive into all sorts of the cracks.

• 1:13:06Speaker 00

  The botchery. We are music dweebs. We are music dweebs.

• 1:13:10Speaker 04

  This is amazing.

• 1:13:11Speaker 06

  It's our commercial bill right here.

• 1:13:12Speaker 04

  So are we, you know what I mean? We're like total music heads. So, I mean, the music business and, you know, and so you mix the experiences with the nerd, the nerdisms. This is what we got right now. This is a beautiful thing, man. I appreciate y'all.

• 1:13:28Speaker 00

  We thank you. Wait, I can't let go.

• 1:13:30Speaker 04

  Wait.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  Can you just give us one more story?

• 1:13:34Speaker 06

  I thought we was going back to the piano. I ain't know.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  About who? About who?

• 1:13:39Speaker 06

  Well, you, you know she.

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Pick somebody. Oh, we had a row with one time and we were, I said, we were out with Chili Peppers.

• 1:13:47Speaker 06

  The Chili Peppers.

• 1:13:48Speaker 00

  I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. I want you, I want you three to collectively decide.

• 1:13:53Speaker 04

  Uh-oh, uh-oh.

• 1:13:56Speaker 00

  Alright, I'm gonna start with the bright spot.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  What artist can you collectively agree was a joy to experience working with? Either riding with them or?

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  That's easy. That's easy for me. Oh, you mean together or?

• 1:14:18Speaker 00

  Okay, I'll, I'll, we'll do three. Give us your three, but one each.

• 1:14:22Speaker 06

  Well, you said Stevie, son. All y'all said Stevie.

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, yeah.

• 1:14:27Speaker 04

  What, no, okay, yes, with Family Sand, Stevie, for sure. Because I got to give him a note and he took it, which is like, ah! I told Stevie what I was something to do and he did it. So, amazing. He asked me to do something over and I said, you said, is that alright? Right, it's like, he was so humble and beautiful. No, do it again. And it was dope too. I was like, you know.

• 1:14:51Speaker 05

  I was tongue tied, like, it's the one that I loved.

• 1:14:54Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:14:55Speaker 05

  As a kid, I, I don't.

• 1:14:59Speaker 00

  What year was this?

• 1:15:00Speaker 04

  Freaking ninety-one, ninety-one.

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  Aw, man.

• 1:15:04Speaker 04

  We were working on Paula Abdul's.

• 1:15:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, he did a, you know, the solo on Where You Marry Me.

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:15:09Speaker 05

  So, I mean, it's just.

• 1:15:10Speaker 04

  I remember.

• 1:15:11Speaker 00

  Speaking of, speaking of Rick James, there's a hilarious story. Do you know about, someone did an interview, either it's Roy Ayers or Steve Ferrone, where Mr. Policeman, the last song that ends Side 1 and Street Songs, how Rick was just abusive to Stevie, like, motherfucker, play that shit like I'm, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:15:35Speaker 04

  Rick James?

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's in wax Poetex, that much I know. Cause I never paid attention to Policeman.

• 1:15:43Speaker 04

  Fucked up.

• 1:15:45Speaker 00

  Someone has that hilarious, I think Roy Ayers tells the story.

• 1:15:50Speaker 04

  He was serious too?

• 1:15:51Speaker 00

  Roy Ayers came in to do his solo at the end of Fire and Desire and tells the story of coming in at the tail end of the studio while Stevie was trying to nail his harmonica solo for Mr. Policeman. And how Rick was just berating him like, horrible, do it again. And like Roy was wondering like, wait, is he gonna be this way to me too with my solo? Like that sort of thing, so.

• 1:16:19Speaker 00

  Glad to hear that.

• 1:16:20Speaker 05

  I'm like.

• 1:16:21Speaker 04

  You know the song You're On of Mind Dizzy?

• 1:16:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:16:24Speaker 04

  That's like so many people's favorite freaking song of mine. Oh, yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Seriously.

• 1:16:29Speaker 06

  Take this.

• 1:16:31Speaker 04

  Just, you take that, you take that, you take that, you take that. You take that in Electric Lady? Electric Lady. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:16:37Speaker 04

  With Mark Batson on keys and Roy Ayers, Donald Byrd and. We recorded a connected album.

• 1:16:44Speaker 00

  Thank you for putting, I mean, at the time, wasn't it, the track was more bear. I didn't realize that Byrd.

• 1:16:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, Byrd and Roy, yeah, yeah. But I will tell you one more funny story. This is my last funny story.

• 1:17:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:17:00Speaker 04

  For this evening.

• 1:17:02Speaker 06

  We can tell by your voice, go ahead.

• 1:17:04Speaker 04

  Yes, this is my end of the evening voice. So, when I was on tour with Roy, we were in Africa and we had to, you know, this is early, this is before Shaka, so we're talking early eighties. Gosh, I'm aging myself. But, so, so we, you know, I had those little, those little portable cameras that you, you know, that you can, you take the whole camera and you turn it in and give you pictures. So, we'd been at the beach all day and so we came back to the hotel and I got in my room and I done rinsed off, got my robe on.

• 1:17:36Speaker 04

  I'm like, okay, who's, who's coming to my, at this hour? And I open the door and it's Roy, he said, you still got your camera? I'm like, yeah, he said, go, give me, get your camera, get your camera. Okay, so I go get my camera, give it to him. Roy opens his trunks, snaps a picture of his thang, hands it back to me and runs down.

• 1:18:01Speaker 06

  That sounds just like him.

• 1:18:07Speaker 06

  That's the story I wanted in the beginning.

• 1:18:11Speaker 00

  Lord of mercy. Ladies and gentlemen, Roy Ayers is member.

• 1:18:17Speaker 06

  The poo poo la la, poo poo la la.

• 1:18:21Speaker 00

  Poo poo la la.

• 1:18:23Speaker 04

  Oh, I hated singing that song.

• 1:18:24Speaker 00

  Did you watch the show?

• 1:18:25Speaker 04

  I hated singing that song, man.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  Oh, you just brought that up randomly?

• 1:18:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, cause Roy Ayers, he has a poo poo la la song. He tells the story. We sitting on the grass.

• 1:18:33Speaker 04

  And we had to walk the whole.

• 1:18:34Speaker 00

  Steve, does any of this sound familiar to you?

• 1:18:35Speaker 05

  He had on his Earth, Wind and Fire t-shirt. Yeah.

• 1:18:37Speaker 00

  Does it sound familiar to you?

• 1:18:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 00

  Oh, no, we literally, alright, we have a segment on The Tonight Show where we talk about songs that are funny, like Do Not Play. We made fun of poo poo la la this week.

• 1:18:54Speaker 04

  Oh, really? Oh, my God.

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  It's rare that we make fun of an established artist with a song. But, yeah, we, we.

• 1:19:02Speaker 04

  Has it aired yet?

• 1:19:04Speaker 00

  Yes, it aired last, and half of the internet's like, why y'all shitting on poo poo la la?

• 1:19:09Speaker 04

  Cause that song was.

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  I was like, it's poo poo la la.

• 1:19:11Speaker 06

  I love when he does it though, every time.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  Alright, now, wait, the antidote.

• 1:19:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  And you know what, to give the story. Who would you not like to work with ever again?

• 1:19:26Speaker 00

  Damn, now I gotta end it on something more positive. I can't end it.

• 1:19:28Speaker 06

  I can't believe you did that.

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Why you looking, I don't, I don't.

• 1:19:31Speaker 04

  I can't think.

• 1:19:33Speaker 00

  Who was a difficult person to, what job was hard to?

• 1:19:38Speaker 04

  He can answer that.

• 1:19:39Speaker 00

  Was it Desiree?

• 1:19:41Speaker 06

  No, she was good. She was good.

• 1:19:44Speaker 04

  Like, I know what you're doing. Pete thought I was, well.

• 1:19:50Speaker 04

  It wasn't nothing like that.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  Oh, well.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  Oh, I just thought it was somebody. But anyway. Well, okay, let me, let me.

• 1:20:00Speaker 06

  I know who.

• 1:20:01Speaker 00

  Damn, I was about to say, what are you gonna say?

• 1:20:03Speaker 06

  I know who. I know who you're talking about.

• 1:20:05Speaker 00

  Oh, we ain't, okay.

• 1:20:07Speaker 06

  I know who you're talking about. But I refuse to put it on tape.

• 1:20:11Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What song, okay. Oh, I wasn't thinking of her. Oh, my God. I forgot about her. Okay, I won't say artist. But what?

• 1:20:25Speaker 00

  What song or project was hard to complete? See, but then again, I don't know.

• 1:20:33Speaker 06

  Because the artist was difficult?

• 1:20:35Speaker 00

  I'm not giving reasons. I'm just saying that, you know, I'm just trying to enter through the back door to not make it sound like you're shitting on a particular artist.

• 1:20:43Speaker 06

  You know something?

• 1:20:44Speaker 00

  What song took a while to? Who's the biggest douchebag you ever met?

• 1:20:50Speaker 06

  One that, one that comes to mind to me, but she was a really, really nice person. But I remember me and Peter, because she was so meticulous about her vocals, about what she wanted. It's like every S, everything she wanted punched. You know what I'm talking about?

• 1:21:10Speaker 00

  Taylor?

• 1:21:11Speaker 06

  No. Not Ta- Taylor Day? No, Taylor was good. Taylor did. Um, China Phillips.

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  Oh, well, that wasn't difficult. I mean, that was.

• 1:21:22Speaker 06

  No, that was difficult, Pete. I remember.

• 1:21:23Speaker 00

  I don't remember.

• 1:21:24Speaker 06

  I remember because she wanted, I remember her doing vocals and wanted every little note. So perfect that.

• 1:21:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't remember that. I mean, if the.

• 1:21:34Speaker 06

  I remember that.

• 1:21:35Speaker 00

  The one name that came up, and I, and really, it was one of the first projects we did together, and I would take responsibility and say it was more me than her, was, was Miki Howard. But, but that's because at the time, um. Come Share My World era, or?

• 1:21:53Speaker 06

  This was after her first record.

• 1:21:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, so this is before Come Share My World?

• 1:21:56Speaker 06

  We did a couple of songs on her first record.

• 1:21:58Speaker 00

  Because I, I, um, like, you know, you know, working for singers, you have to, some, some of them, you have to give them those. Sometimes some of them are just, they're really a vibe. They just gotta let them sing all the way down, and not to tell them too much.

• 1:22:09Speaker 06

  What we, Whitney was like.

• 1:22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, so with, so with Miki, I think it was more me just trying to kind of pinpoint it too much for her. She was the type of singer that just let it go.

• 1:22:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, she wants to.

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  You coached Whitney vocals? No, Whitney, Miki.

• 1:22:23Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  No, you, oh, you said Whitney was like that. I was like.

• 1:22:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, because I worked with, cause she.

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  Kaseef.

• 1:22:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Speaker 00

  Oh, uh, think about you. You're on the first record. Well, you give good love.

• 1:22:35Speaker 06

  No, I, I wasn't on that record, but I was in the stu- it's a matter of fact, I was in the studio when Lala played her the, the song.

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:22:43Speaker 06

  You know, so, but I, I knew she was the type of singer that you had to let her sing things down. I mean, she could punch things in, but it was better if you let her sing multiple takes.

• 1:22:53Speaker 04

  And then you take what you want.

• 1:22:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:22:55Speaker 06

  She was just that kind of singer. If you kind of broke it up, she kind of mo- broke the momentum of.

• 1:23:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:00Speaker 06

  Of her feeling.

• 1:23:01Speaker 00

  And, okay. I only ask because, like, yeah, vocals are a nightmare for me, and I hate.

• 1:23:08Speaker 06

  What you mean, doing vocals?

• 1:23:10Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 1:23:10Speaker 06

  Producing vocals?

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

  I think maybe I'm just, I'm trying to learn, I'm, I'm trying to learn to not be as standoffish or whatever. So always have a, what I call a bad cop to.

• 1:23:23Speaker 04

  You don't want to say things that you.

• 1:23:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, me and Pete played that. Me and Pete used to do that.

• 1:23:29Speaker 00

  And you know who I work with, so it's just like, I always have a bad cop on standby for vocals.

• 1:23:34Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:23:34Speaker 00

  I'm creating the music, creating the song, creating the music, engineering.

• 1:23:39Speaker 04

  Dude, I'll be a bad cop anytime. Trust.

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  And that's how we're gonna end. Questlove Supreme, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:23:48Speaker 00

  Yo.

• 1:23:48Speaker 06

  I love it.

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  You guys, thank you so much.

• 1:23:50Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:23:51Speaker 00

  This was an amazing night.

• 1:23:54Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, I love it.

• 1:23:55Speaker 00

  Thank you. Uh, on behalf of Team Supreme, Steve, you still with us? Yeah, I, I have a question. And let's stop the episode. It's good. No, we're back on. You really live at Neverland?

• 1:24:07Speaker 06

  He said you are ass.

• 1:24:08Speaker 00

  You say Neverland. Show's over, ladies and gentlemen.

• 1:24:12Speaker 06

  It's so serious. It's good.

• 1:24:15Speaker 00

  All right, we out. We are out. On behalf of Sugar Steve, Laiya, and Boss Bill, Fontigalo, and, and, um, Pete Bill. Can they replace Fontigalo and, and Bill permanently? Let's all just, yeah, we, I'm gonna join the family stand. They're joining Questlove Supreme.

• 1:24:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:24:35Speaker 00

  We will see you on the next go around. Thank you. This is a very special Questlove Supreme on iHeart Radio. Much love.

• 1:24:43Speaker 00

  Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original, writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original, already moving, already shaking things up. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first, not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours? Behind every original, live in Levi's.

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