Barry Manilow

Barry Manilow pulls up to The Questlove Show for a rare, career-spanning conversation that begins with humble reflections on Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and ends with Hall of Fame accolades, classic jingles, and a recent victory over cancer. Ahmir and Barry trace his path from CBS mailroom kid to music director, arranger, and reluctant frontman who never saw himself as a singer. Manilow breaks down the craft of writing immortal ad hooks, the no-glam reality of the legendary Continental Baths, and why he'll only write songs as a job now. Barry, who released his first album in 15 years, What A Time last month, also opens up about imposter syndrome and working with Bette Midler, Dionne Warwick, and Ron Dante. This episode was taped in April 2026, before the passing of Clive Davis, Barry Manilow's longtime collaborator, who is mentioned throughout the conversation. Manilow is on tour now https://barrymanilow.com/, performing in arenas across the US and continuing his record-setting Las Vegas residency. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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  If you love music and great artists' interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  The Questlove Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Questlove Show. I will say that our esteemed guest once sang. I write the songs, but I digress. I believe that our guest is the song. He's embodied all of pop culture. He's a songwriter's Hall of Fame legend. 13 number one hits, countless top 10, top 40 hits, over 85 million records sold. Classic ad jingles. Like, if I'd sit here and sing of his accolades, the interview will be over. Grammy winner, Emmy winner, Tony winner, recent-

• 3:11Speaker 05

  Stop, stop.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  No, man, it's flower time. You recently got the, what is your-

• 3:18Speaker 05

  It was the-

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Advertising Hall of Fame. The Advertising Hall of Fame. Which you deserve. To this day, your commercials are still, your music is being used. Shout out to Jake from Steak Farm. And despite, you know, all these achievements, he returns to us one more time. I don't believe that musicians ever truly leave, but yes, what a time is this first album in 15 years. Most importantly, we're celebrating his recent victory over cancer. And this is your final concert run. And I am honored that our legendary guest today is giving us the pleasure of just talking to him for a little bit. Barry Manilow, welcome to the Questlove Show. How are you?

• 4:03Speaker 05

  I've been wanting to do this ever since we met on The Tonight Show, but I don't get to the East Coast very often like I used to.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:12Speaker 05

  I'm gonna turn this off.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  It's okay. You're Barry Manilow, you can do it.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, I know you're kidding around, but I never think like that. I just never think like that.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  No, it's, I'm not kidding. I mean, you're a legend, and legends should be celebrated. What is your first musical memory in life? Your first musical memory from childhood?

• 4:32Speaker 05

  My first musical memory was my mother singing to me.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:37Speaker 05

  She was a good singer.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  What did she sing?

• 4:39Speaker 05

  Pop songs of the day.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:41Speaker 05

  And she was good. She should have made a career out of her, but I got in the way. She had to, she had to go out and work and, and support me. So she never did it, but she was good.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:54Speaker 05

  So that was my first, my first memory.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Okay. So you grew up in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Now, my version of Williamsburg is where I like to hang out for like, dinner with friends and I go to movies all the time there. Like I hang out in Williamsburg, but can you describe your version of Williamsburg as a child and a teen? What was it like?

• 5:14Speaker 05

  A dump.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  And you didn't want to go there. It was so dangerous. I would consider it a, a very good luck if I got home from school. Cause I lived across the street from Eastern District High School. And if I made it home, I, without getting beaten up, I, I considered it a good day.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Have you been there recently? Have you seen Williamsburg?

• 5:40Speaker 05

  I, I did. I mean, it, it maybe a year ago or so. It looked like, uh, the village, right? Is that what you're talking about?

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:48Speaker 05

  Yeah. That's what that, that's what they've turned it into. It looks like the village and it's much safer now. Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Uh, what part of New York City do you most identify with though? Like what's your, like, all these boroughs, like what's your favorite part of New York?

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Manhattan.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  My, my life began when I, I got a job at CBS and I liked all the people. I didn't know what I was gonna do with myself, but I liked it. I liked the vibe there.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Okay. What were your duties at CBS? You started working there in the early sixties? Like what were your job duties?

• 6:22Speaker 05

  Uh, I was a mail boy for a while and, uh, and then I, they promoted me into, um, editing films. And that was good. I, I, I liked that. I liked all the people there. They were funny and smart. And, uh, I had a great time at CBS. And then everybody knew I was musical because I would run away and play piano because there were a lot of rehearsal halls. So they would hear this skinny male boy playing piano. And I left CBS and after I left CBS, I got a phone call from CBS saying they're putting up a brand new show, a local show called Call Back.

• 7:06Speaker 05

  It's what we know today as trying to find a talented young person. And so they needed a music director. So I was available. So I came back to CBS only in a totally different.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  And your duties were to find songs, write songs, arrange songs?

• 7:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  And as just a one man machine or were you like with a bunch of collaborators or?

• 7:29Speaker 05

  There were people there, but it really was my gig to to pull all the songs together. I would work with the singer, give them an arrangement, make sure it's in the right key, and then conduct the band on the day of the show. And I loved it.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  So back then, I would imagine that as a working musician, would one have to sight read on the spot, like be, at any point where musicians that weren't able to read charts able to still get gigs? Like if you could do chord charts or just notate to them what to play and watch me for the cues?

• 8:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I haven't met many musicians who can't read, which is good. Because if you can read music, if you want to be a musician, you've got to learn how to read music. Because if you can, you'll always work. But if you can't, then these producers will not hire you because that means you've got to memorize it on the spot.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  And that's not good for the producers.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  I know that at some point you started working either with the Sullivan Show or without Sullivan?

• 8:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was very young, but I conducted for the summer at Sullivan Show. It was a big deal. I mean, I.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  How intimidating was that process?

• 8:46Speaker 05

  It was. These older musicians did not like taking orders from me. They really didn't. I wasn't prepared for it, but they did not like taking orders from me.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  How big were the orchestras?

• 9:01Speaker 05

  Not huge, but you know, it was a TV size show, bigger than we have today.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Right. I've heard many a story about the Continental Baths or like the Bette Midler show. But I've heard the title. What exactly, can you just run me through what that environment was like? Was it a place she entertained or was it a bar? Was it a restaurant? What is it?

• 9:26Speaker 05

  It was a spa.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  So it was literally, she would do a show inside of a spa?

• 9:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Okay. I've never heard of this before, but I've heard the Continental Baths and this is where she got her start. So they would have entertainment there?

• 9:39Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  Okay. And you were her musical director?

• 9:42Speaker 05

  I was the music director of, every weekend I would show up. Whoever was performing there, they'd give me their music. I'd play for them at night. And Bette was one of those girls.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 9:55Speaker 05

  And it was, it was odd because they weren't wearing any clothes.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Wow, okay. I did not know this.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, just a towel.

• 10:06Speaker 00

  So is it actually inside the spa?

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  So how's the condensation and all that stuff work for the instruments and whatnot like?

• 10:14Speaker 05

  There was just me and a rotten little piano and a drummer who tried to catch up.

• 10:22Speaker 05

  That was it.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  And a lot of people came out.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  And her voice would amplify like, I'm still thinking of the technical part of it. Like if you're, if you're in a steam room with a microphone.

• 10:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, it was very amateurish. It was no big deal.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Okay. What was the duration of these?

• 10:40Speaker 05

  Ninety minutes.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:42Speaker 05

  She would take an intermission. All the girls, I don't think I ever saw a guy performing there with all the girls.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  I was playing for all the girls as a musician and as a, I would do their arrangements. And a lot of times I found that those girls were going to be performing at the Continental Baths on Saturday night. So that was good. It was, it was inviting. I was not naked. I was not with a little towel around me, not at all. I was.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  It must've been hot, okay.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  Finished my gig and run.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  Okay. What I've heard about these shows is how legendary they were. Like what was it about her as a performer that made her stand out from anyone else that sang there? And did anyone else of note sing there as well or just?

• 11:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, but that was. She was brilliant. I mean, the most brilliant young talent that you've ever seen. And she was going to be a star. And, I mean, she was so, she could do anything. She could do blues, she could do rock and roll. So that was great for me, because I could do that too.

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 11:56Speaker 05

  So we hated each other on sight, but musically, we were great.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  Okay. Was she your first client in producing, as far as albums were concerned?

• 12:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Okay, so, you know, I know that today, producing is a very loose term. Like, I know producers that do the work, and I know some producers just rubber stamp. But I know back then, there was a whole process, or at least it was more disciplined in terms of like, getting rhythm arrangers, getting horn arrangers. Like, without having had that experience before, how intimidating was it to man the ship for the first time?

• 12:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. Especially if they did have music that I could just play for them. But hardly had music. She was just coming up. She was broke, she didn't have, she didn't have money to get arrangements that people could. Once I started working for her, I wrote out all of the arrangements that she would need. And for nothing, because I saw this girl was so talented, was so talented. And when you see something like that, you have to support it, I felt. I was struggling myself, but this girl was something else.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Then, what was your creative process? Like, I know some songwriters, Quincy Jones says he likes to arrange, like, between midnight and 5:00 AM. Or, like, for you, what is the creative process that you need in order to bring a song to light?

• 13:35Speaker 05

  What I need is a job. I don't like to write songs, because they never go anywhere. And most of them are wonderful. I think they're wonderful. I only write these days if someone has a job, and I know that it's gonna land someplace. Then I do it.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  For so many years, I just would write a song, or I don't know. And they would go nowhere, they'd go in the uh

• 14:06Speaker 00

  In the vault?

• 14:06Speaker 05

  And so I've stopped doing that.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Okay, so, and I'm saying this in air quotes, this is your last go around, so you say. But, I mean, how many are still left over? Or is this that you write for the moment, for the task at hand?

• 14:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, I do, I write on demand. But there are songs that I wrote with nothing in mind.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  So how do you deal with the pressure then? And I actually admire this, this process, which I've never heard before. Cause everyone has this story like, one night I woke from a dream and I felt inspired, da da da da da.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  Well, I got one of those too.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm not technically known as a songwriter, but oftentimes, the first thing that's on my plate is the deadline. I need something by Thursday, March, blah, blah, blah.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  Well, we're saying the same thing. I need to know that it's going to land someplace. So I stopped just writing.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Just to write?

• 15:04Speaker 05

  To write, I mean, it just was wasting, wasting great music. And I was so proud of these things and they didn't go anywhere. So I won't do it unless I know it's gonna go someplace.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  Have you ever had like a real severe case of writer's block? Where just nothing was happening at all?

• 15:21Speaker 05

  No, I've written lousy songs. But

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Okay, well, I know you've had collaborators, but I mean, Ron Dante is probably the person that would be that. But who's the person that could tell you, uh, you tried that idea before? Or maybe you should do it a key lower? Like who's the person that you trust to say?

• 15:41Speaker 05

  Well, these days, it's a guy named David Benson.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:45Speaker 05

  Who I've known for years and certainly my assistant Mark is so musical. Those are the two guys that I run to, to ask, what do you think?

• 15:57Speaker 00

  And you accept their truth? They'll be honest with you?

• 15:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, I do.

• 16:06Speaker 06

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  Si eres un fan de la música, tengo un nuevo podcast que tienes que ver. Se llama "Before the Moment", una nueva serie presentada por el legendario Nile Rodgers. Lo conoces como el productor, compositor, guitarrista y cofundador de Sheik. Pero en esta serie, está llegando a la calle para sentarse con algunos de los artistas más fascinantes de hoy. Desde los músicos hit como Miguel hasta los estrellas en aumento como Alex Warren, Nile explora las historias detrás de sus carreras, las canciones y los momentos que cambian todo. Porque cada artista puede señalar ese punto de inflexión, ese momento antes del breakthrough, antes del éxito, antes de que todo cambie. A través de conversaciones candidatas y historias personales, escucharás lo que pasó antes del momento que los hizo como son hoy. Escucha "Before the Moment", una serie original de Lincoln en la aplicación de iHeart Radio,

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  Detrás de cada hito de la lista de top, sabes por corazón que hay un original. Escribiendo en algún lugar donde nadie estaba escuchando. En algún sótano, en algún cuarto. Alguien con teléfonos en la noche de tres de la mañana persiguiendo una cosa que ni siquiera podrían nombrar aún. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original, already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off tempo. On purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first, not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours?

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• 19:03Speaker 00

  When was the moment in your career that you knew that you could do this full time? Because I always imagine, living in New York City, there's never the feeling of safety of like, like when you get your first number one, do you feel like you arrived or is it like, mm, I still might have to hustle my way through or?

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Well, that's, that's two questions. Because in the beginning, I had to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. So I wasn't even thinking about making records, ever. Ever even thinking about doing that.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  Wait, why not?

• 19:38Speaker 05

  Well, coming from the slums of Brooklyn, New York, you don't think that big.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  Okay, so when you were, when you were 11, what were your goals in life? Like, what did you want to do for a living? What did you think you wanted to do?

• 19:52Speaker 05

  Just to get home from school.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Just to, you wanted to survive?

• 19:56Speaker 05

  Without getting beaten up. What, what, what were you doing when you were 11? Did you know you were going to be a musician?

• 20:04Speaker 00

  This is the worst humble brag. I mean, my, my father was a, an oldies doo-wop singer from the 50s.

• 20:10Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  So he had a group called Lee Andrews and the Hearts. And by the time I was born, it was the nostalgia period. So he kind of made it a family act. So like when I was 12, because of a motorcycle accident of my dad's drummer, I became his de facto drummer. And bandleader, like my first gig was at Radio City Music Hall.

• 20:31Speaker 05

  Whoa.

• 20:31Speaker 00

  And so I was tricked into the family business, like farming, you know, like they didn't believe in babysitters. So it's like, nope, you come with us. And so I got tricked into the family business. But I mean, pretty much my dad's dream was for me to like to drum for you, like a respectable job. Like, I want you to do something with the da da da feel harmonic or that sort of thing. And, you know, starting a rap group with my best friend in high school, like was not in his plans. Even though I auditioned for Juilliard, like the next day, my act of rebellion was busking on the streets. And then that led to a record deal. And so.

• 21:09Speaker 05

  Well, your father must have been very proud then.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  By my fourth album, he was, but even even on the third album, he was still like, you gotta get a real job. But that's the thing, like, I don't, I don't think a musician ever feels like they're totally safe. Or, you know, like, this is what I'm gonna do for a lifetime. So as far as your life as a jingle maker, how many drafts do you have to go through before you know you deserve a break today? Is is the one or, you know, you're the Pepsi generation or did you also write, I'm a pepper, he's a pepper?

• 21:45Speaker 05

  No.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Okay, but you wrote for Dr. Pepper, right? Correct? Band-Aid and I'm stuck on Band-Aid and I'm sure you know everything. Or even today, kids know like a good neighbor, State Farm's there. How do you know when you have the perfect eight second tag?

• 22:05Speaker 05

  It comes really easy to me. And the commercial world, the world that I was in, they would give me a lyric or it would give me a couple of lines. That's what I had to create. So if they gave me a lyric, get out of the way. I can write a melody to anything and I got them a lot. I love those years. I just loved those years. I learned so much about making records. I I worked with the greatest musicians because, you know, they get paid big to do a commercial.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 05

  And so they were so helpful to me, you know, I was so green during those years. But when I left, I knew what I was doing and I knew I wanted to stay there. I never really thought about singing, never.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  So the learning curve of it, like, did you have a mentor to actually teach you the ropes? Or the stuff you had to learn?

• 23:01Speaker 05

  No.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  On the way to it?

• 23:02Speaker 05

  No, you know, it was just a job and they liked what I did. And I was one of like five guys that tried out for these commercials. And I would get them, the other guy would get them, the girl would get them, I would get them. And we would all try to.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  So there's like four other versions of Like a Good Neighbor State Farm is there that we don't know about?

• 23:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, and they were great.

• 23:26Speaker 05

  These people were great, really. I don't even know how I was able to compete with them. They were wonderful.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  I respect that because when I started at Late Night.

• 23:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  One of the biggest songwriting challenges, this is when I knew like, oh, I don't know anything about songwriting. It's like when you have to write a five second tag jingle and they would literally send us back. You know, they'll be like, okay, this called Hot Dog in a Hole, give me five second jingle. And we'd write it and they'd be like, no, it's, we need more, like they literally wanted emotion. And I'm like, dude, it's just a five second tag for a game. Like, I didn't think it was that serious, but after five years of doing that, I now realize that whatever I had before I came to The Tonight Show, writing five second jingles as a muscle exercise has now made me a monster, you know, for real songs.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  How do you handle rejection if someone doesn't like it? Like, do you come over, remix it, or do you?

• 24:27Speaker 05

  No, in that world, it's yes or no. That's it. They don't change their mind.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  And me, I go on to the next thing.

• 24:36Speaker 00

  All right, so I can imagine, at least with the Bell Records connection, but can you talk about your working relationship with Ron Dante? And him producing like your run of albums? How you, your working relationship was? And first of all, well, to hear you say it, how did you finally decide that, yes, I will become a singer and release my own music?

• 24:58Speaker 05

  Even when I met Ron Dante, I never considered myself a singer. I was a songwriter, I was the arranger, I was a piano player. So when I, I met Ron Dante at a commercial session, I had written the, the piece, I forget what the thing was. Then the producer asked me if to sing in that group. That's when I got some money, when I was on the spot. If you're, because as a songwriter, you get, I got $500.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  Oh, work for hire, I mean.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  Well, they don't, unless you're on the spot, singing, talking, you don't get residuals. So I wrote.

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Wait, so the songwriter doesn't get residuals? But the person that sings, it gets the, so Luther Vandals will get all the residuals for singing?

• 25:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, I started to get.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  Your Pepsi song?

• 25:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I started to get really big checks. But not as the songwriter, I got $500 for State Farm is there. That's it.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  So to this day, when I hear it?

• 25:59Speaker 05

  500.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  Damn, okay.

• 26:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, but when I sang on the spot, well, watch out. Those are really great, I mean, especially for me. So I met Ron Dante on a, on one of those kind of singing sessions. He was fantastic. He doesn't read music, but he's, he's, he's so talented, he gets it like that. His voice is so pleasant on the radio. They, they hire him for everything.

• 26:34Speaker 00

  He was once the voice of the, Sugar Sugar for the Argies, correct?

• 26:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was a big one for him. Anyway, so I was, we did a session together and we went out to lunch or something and we started talking about, what about making a record? Because I had written some stuff that he really liked. So we said, sure, you know, so we pooled our money and we went into the recording studio and I thought he was gonna sing it. Sing the lead. Because I really never even thought about myself as a singer, never. But he didn't know the lyric and he didn't know the melody.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  So I went in and sang and I, you know, I felt ridiculous because I'm, I'm never really thought about being a singer. And we, we played our demos for, for record companies and they liked me. We're like, what are you talking about? But they liked me and eventually I got a record deal at Bell Records.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  So what is the key to your confidence then? Like if you're in your mind saying, hey, why me? Like what gets you out of? How do you deal with imposter syndrome? Like, do I deserve to be here? Shouldn't you get a better guy to sing it? Like in your mind?

• 27:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  What's the voice are you hearing that should knock these songs out?

• 27:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, no, it was a long time ago, but, but no, I never considered myself a singer. I thought it was ridiculous.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  How did you deal with imposter syndrome and realize that you are the one?

• 28:05Speaker 05

  I played the game. I did, they wanted me to sing, sure, I'll sing. It was just, it was really about, about the money.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  Well, okay, so the first album didn't necessarily hit as much. So how did you deal with that not working? Did you just think like, okay, this is a one-off and I did it?

• 28:23Speaker 05

  I was hoping it didn't work. I didn't like the gig. I liked the gig of writing.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Wait a minute.

• 28:29Speaker 05

  I liked the gig of arranging. I liked.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  You knowingly wanted to self sabotage your?

• 28:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was hoping this would go away.

• 28:37Speaker 00

  This often happens. Okay, so I would at least like to think that now you feel like, okay, I deserved it. And you still feel that way? So you don't feel like we appreciate you all that much or? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put it this way. You're so ubiquitous, like the fiber of you is so ubiquitous that I know your whole history and I'm not even your target audience. Like, but if I'm home as a third grader, like you were on Dinah Shore, I think you had a group called Lady Flash or something like that? Yeah, like I had to watch Bandstand and Soul Train all the time. So like you're just a part of our fabric. So in case you don't know, you're appreciated.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  But the second time it did work.

• 29:23Speaker 05

  Well, that was because Clive.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  Tell me about, and you get prime Clive, you get prime Hungry, I gotta prove to Columbia and starting Arista, like, I feel like, even though I know Eric Carmen and Bay City Rollers was sort of like, out the gate with him, but I feel like you are his main Trojan horse in terms of like, him establishing himself.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  But, I don't know why.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Well, was the relationship contentious, like?

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Well, he wanted me to record songs that he liked, he would.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Did you trust Azir back then, or were you reluctant, like, okay?

• 30:04Speaker 05

  No, but I wanted to record my own songs. I was this, I was a songwriter. And so we made a deal, I would give him two songs on the albums, and the rest of them would be mine.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 30:20Speaker 05

  And of course, those two songs were always.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Must do your shit, man.

• 30:24Speaker 05

  I wonder how that would happen.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  Right. Well, you told the story, thing on the Tonight Show, of you not liking Mandy when it first arrived to you.

• 30:33Speaker 05

  Well, did you ever hear that?

• 30:35Speaker 00

  I've heard the original. Okay, so, when, I still feel, we all still feel like a song is yours, once it arrives in your hand. So when you get a song, how long do you have to sit with it before you filter it and process it and mold it to know that, okay, this is now my song?

• 30:51Speaker 05

  Well, they're all different, but I mean, Mandy, I played around with it. And I changed the chords, and I, I found the love song hiding in this rock and roll song.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  And at night, Ronnie and I did a version of Brandy, just like the demo. And Clive came in and said, what's that? I said, that's a record that you think I should do. And he said, that's terrible. I said, I know it's terrible, that's not what I do. And so I said, I've been playing it in the afternoon, come with me. So I sat him, I sat at the piano, and I played him what I had played around with in the afternoon, which was, I had found the love song hiding in this Mandy. And he said, just do that. Just, and he backed away into the control room, and we did one take, and that was it.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  What?

• 31:48Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 31:49Speaker 05

  Then we added strings and.

• 31:52Speaker 00

  So initially, it was this piano and your voice and no click track, no any?

• 31:56Speaker 05

  No.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, that would have been a nightmare for me.

• 31:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Um, in your opinion, what is priority for a great song? Is it? I'm a rhythm person because I'm a drummer, but for you, is it the words? Is it the melody?

• 32:12Speaker 05

  It's the emotion. If, if you can get people to feel something, then you're halfway home.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  So at every arrangement of yours, every song of yours has to have emotion that gives you.

• 32:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  Okay, I always wanted to know this because this is a karaoke nightmare song. For the Copa Cabana, I admire songs that have a narrative in it. And there's so much detail and linear detail packed in this song. Yet it's probably one of your most popular songs.

• 32:50Speaker 05

  And I don't know why.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  But and there's no circular thing that like, I mean, the melody sticks with you. But there's so like, I mean, someone gets shot and like at the time when you were creating it, was this like going to be filler in your head, like a great album cut? Or did you say this is going to be like my signature song?

• 33:11Speaker 05

  Oh, no, no, no, no, it was the novelty cut on the album.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  So when it caught on, how did you feel about it?

• 33:20Speaker 05

  It was thrilling.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 33:22Speaker 05

  Thrilling, yeah. Ron and I took it to a disco around where the studio is. And as soon as Copa came on, we, you know, paid some guy, said the DJ. And soon as it came on, everybody ran to the dance floor and pretended they were, they were in the 1940s.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:43Speaker 05

  Doing dance.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  Swashbuckling and Casablanca, okay, I get it.

• 33:48Speaker 05

  I said to Ron, are you think we're on to something? And Clive hated it.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Really?

• 33:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, Arista didn't put a penny behind promotion of Copa Cabana.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  So caught on because of word of mouth and just spreading?

• 34:02Speaker 05

  That's how it happened.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:03Speaker 05

  That is a real hit record.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Whenever he is wrong. Will he admit it? Or will he just, hey, I knew it all. Will he just?

• 34:13Speaker 05

  Well, ask him. He doesn't, he didn't, he doesn't like Kopa. And he didn't do anything for it, but the public liked it. And they were calling in, um, uh, the radio stations and asking to play Manilow's Kopa.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 34:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's how it happened.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  So you probably have one of the best cosigns ever. When Sinatra famously said, hey, like, you're the next great one.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  He didn't say that. He said.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  Well, I know that he said something to the.

• 34:45Speaker 05

  He said, he's next. And I thought, am I gonna, am I gonna wind up with a horse's head in my bed?

• 34:54Speaker 05

  He's next.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  But do you know what he meant?

• 34:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Yes, he said, he's next. I, I never really got to know him, but he sang a song of mine on The Tonight Show, and he did a beautiful job.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Not one of the hits. He found a real album cut. He memorized it and did a beautiful job.

• 35:16Speaker 00

  Is it weird when people cover your songs like so soon after you did it? I mean, Donna Summer started covering a song that you recorded like maybe perhaps a year before, like when a song is yours and then someone else does it. Did you ever feel a certain way about it like?

• 35:39Speaker 05

  I think everybody should record my songs.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 35:43Speaker 05

  I don't care.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Of, of the covers that were, were done, like, what was your favorites that were, or the notable ones that you?

• 35:50Speaker 05

  My answer is Could It Be Magic?

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, Could It Be Magic? All right.

• 35:59Speaker 05

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• 38:07Speaker 00

  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original. Writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Some basement, some bedroom. Somebody with headphones on at 3:00 in the morning chasing a thing they couldn't even name yet. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original. Already moving, already shaking things up, already looping that one bar, already off-tempo, on purpose, because on purpose was the point. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first. Not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  What's yours? Behind every original. Live in Levi's.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  I gotta ask you this question. In your arrangements, and you're one of these grand arrangers, like there's two things about your arrangements that I noticed. One, you rarely do a fade out. You do an ending.

• 39:14Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  Which doesn't happen anymore. Songs end in concert, but they never end on record.

• 39:21Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  And that's a lost art. But also the modulation. Now, of all your songs in which the modulation adds that last part, I gotta ask you about Never Love This Way Again. Because to me, the Evel Knievel jump isn't landing on the final note. It's that hold on bridge in which Dionne Warwick actually has to go. That modulation should be studied for the ages. What was on your mind when you? Well, you could've just gone to the modulation and been there, but you had to.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. It just felt better. It just felt better. And she was so great that she was able to pick it up. But it didn't throw you, did it?

• 40:12Speaker 00

  I mean, one, I'm not a singer, but I've been witness to many a car accident of singers attempting to figure out where that last hold on goes to before they have to land on the modulation.

• 40:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think anybody's ever had trouble with those modulations, even though they should.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  But they're complex, though. They're complex. But is that a lost art? Like, do you? I mean, there's a certain art to music that is lost again. And the ending and the modulation, like, is the modulation the? When you spoke of the emotion of a song, is that the payoff? Like, is the first three minutes the buildup that leads to whatever you're supposed to feel?

• 40:57Speaker 05

  It all depends on the song, but the singer, the writer. There's no rules. There's no rules. It's art. It's music.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  Put it in a box. They're all different. I don't even remember. The modulation and I'll never love this way again. But, uh, I mean, it's a beautiful song. She did a beautiful job and that's all I got.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  There you go. Speaking of which, Deja Vu is one of my favorite songs of all time. I know that Isaac Hayes wrote that song, but can you just talk about the general process of producing that Dion record? Because by that point, you know, she had been kind of out there for five, six years, really without like

• 41:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  A hit. So many people credit that entire album as her comeback album and establish her for the eighties and whatnot. I mean, started hosting Solid Gold after.

• 41:50Speaker 05

  I think she got a Grammy for

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:53Speaker 05

  I don't know, that was again, and Deja Vu in another category.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 05

  I had never heard of one of those.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  So what was it like producing those sessions?

• 42:03Speaker 05

  It was just another session.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  You're not saying it all about?

• 42:06Speaker 05

  No, but by that time, I knew those musicians.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  They were friends, uh, and I would tell them what I'd like and they would play it. And that's it. I would love to tell you that I would love the vibe in the room. It's no, it was a, it was a recording session. I had done a million of them. You know, they were great. These musicians are great. I would tell them little ideas that I wanted and they would do it.

• 42:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:37Speaker 05

  Sometimes they'll hit songs and sometimes they won't.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Okay, so your album, which is your first record in 15 years.

• 42:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  And by the way, congratulations on it. And I'm a person that is also, has not released any product in 10 years. And I'll admit that there's some sort of psychological fear of like getting back in the ring and going back to the gym and working out.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  Mm hmm.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  How do you walk through the fear of just one more time? Like, let me do this again. How did you get through the, any self doubt you had or?

• 43:13Speaker 05

  Michael Lord and I made this album and it took a long time. And COVID was, happened in the middle of it.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  So it just took forever to make this album. I didn't even think it was gonna ever come out after COVID. And I didn't know. It wasn't one of those albums that I've made. Wreck a Company wants it, but, but Thursday. It wasn't that. It was a batch of songs. And I really wanted to hear them done properly.

• 43:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:45Speaker 05

  And that's it. I love them and I think they very well may be an audience that feels the same way. But we'll see.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  How did "Once Before I Go" land in your lap? And, you know, why did you feel that was necessary to record?

• 44:02Speaker 05

  Clive, this man.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  Can't get rid of him?

• 44:05Speaker 05

  Thank God. But he was having this big outdoor festival in, in Central Park.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 05

  And he got rained out. If you remember, he got rained out.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 05

  And he called me and said, did you, have you ever heard of a song called "Once Before I Go"? And I said, yeah, Peter played it for me in my old apartment in New York. He said, you should do it. I said, yeah, but it's been a long time. Anyway, I went into the studio since I was making an album. And then I was on the road, so thank goodness, babyface.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  Kenneth stepped in and made a beautiful record for me. And I got a top 10 single out of it.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 05

  I know, I haven't been on, the last time I was at the top 10, Washington was crossing the Delaware.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Really, it's nuts. My final question to you.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  So, once the album is out, completed, and once you've done your very last show, and I hate asking this question because again, every artist I talk to says, this is it. No more, da-da-da.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  All right, let me get a penultimate question before I ask the final question. One, is there really such a thing as stopping?

• 45:37Speaker 05

  No.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Okay. So, once the album is out and you've done your very last show,

• 45:44Speaker 00

  what are you gonna do for yourself?

• 45:45Speaker 05

  I'll tell you after I do it.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  Barry Manilow, I thank you for granting me this audience. You're such a legend and we appreciate and love you. And thank you for coming on the Questlove Show.

• 45:56Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you so much. See y'all in the next good round.

• 46:00Speaker 05

  This was great.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  The Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G., Brian Calhoun, and me.

• 46:17Speaker 00

  Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brand.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  Edited by Alex Conroy. iHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Palow. Additional support by Lance Coleman.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  Special thanks to Kathy Braun.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The Questlove Show wherever you stream your podcasts. And make sure you follow us on socials. That's at Q L S. Check out hundreds and hundreds of Q L S episodes, including The Questlove Supreme Shows in our podcast archives.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  Questlove Show is a production of iHeart Radio.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country, talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  Behind every chart-topping hit, you know by heart there's an original, writing it someplace where nobody was listening. Behind the culture that marks a generation, there's an original, already moving, already shaking things up. Behind every night that changed the room, somebody had to walk in first, not knowing it would land, but doing it anyway. Originals are out there, living stories worth telling. What's yours? Behind every original, live in Levi's.

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